The Geyser Empath
The Geyser Empath is an individual who is empathic in nature with the additional tendency to fountain with emotion. All empaths are emotional, it goes with the territory but some empaths are far more emotional than others.
This type of empathic tendency is marked by high energy levels. One might even go so far as to say that shades of hyper activity start to appear with the Geyser Empath. He or she is always on the go, heading here and travelling there, seeking out people to see how they are and to exhibit their significant caring side with plenty of suitable expressions of concern, empathy and understanding.
The Geyser Empath is very useful for our kind because of how expressive they are with regard to their emotions. Their responses are exaggerated. This does not mean that they are false, far from it, the exaggeration appears as a heightened response which is very useful for us to witness and then allows us to mimic it.
There is no subtlety involved. When the Geyser Empath is happy it is shown as a torrent of joy, their concern is grave and focussed and their hurt is not of a silent tear but the wail and tears of the tortured. Such displays may seem melodramatic to some, but they are not, they are exactly how the Geyser Empath feels.
The Geyser Empath, owing to the high energy levels talks often about how he or she feels but this is not a case of them explaining that because it must be all about them, but rather they will convey those feelings in order to help others by causing them to better understand. When someone talks about being in despair, the Geyser Empath will relate how they know despair only too well and will articulate that feeling in order to demonstrate that they understand how the listener feels.
This person has a tissue thin skin and is highly sensitive. They are very easily hurt and when we lash out against them, they respond with a fountain of emotion. If they are praised, their thanks will gush from them with greater intensity than a Gwyneth Paltrow Oscar acceptance speech. If they are denigrated, the tears will not flow but they will cascade along with that trembling bottom lip and a near histrionic response to the pain caused by wounding words.
The Geyser Empath is unable to put on a brave face. Whilst the Carrier Empath is dogged and stoic in the face of adversity, focussing their empathy on resolving the situation in a practical fashion, the Geyser Empath will dissolve in a bubbling mess of tears. They are completely unable to conceal their emotions, even for a short time. A Carrier Empath can do so because they shift their feelings on to solving a problem. The Geyser Empath does not have that function. They are excellent at tea and sympathy, kind and comforting words flowing, but of little use practically.
Unlike the Magnet Empath, the Geyser Empath is better dealing with intimate and one-on-one situations rather than handling a crowd. The Geyser Empath loves nothing more than finding an individual as their project and wanting to use their biggest asset in order to resolve issues; their utter devotion to love.
They are the greatest love devotees of all empaths, they truly believe that with love everything can be solved. Love conquers everything, all you need is love, love will save the day. If you were to ask them just how this happens, they could not answer, but explain that love works in mysterious ways and by being loving, showing love and acting with love in each and everything they do, this will resolve problems, heal hurt and bring happiness to all.
This devotion to love means that the Geyser Empath is big on romance and will readily fall prey to overt exhibitions of passion, love and romance from our kind. Any narcissist which presents as the knight in shining armour will have the Geyser Empath’s attention from the beginning as he or she believes they have found a kindred spirit.
The Geyser Empath’s overt displays of emotion make our task of mirroring so much easier. He or she will wear his or her heart on their sleeve and they will suffer repeated heartbreak. Notwithstanding this outcome, the Geyser Empath is undeterred. They will suffer misery and pain from this broken heart and they will then affirm their belief in love and bounce back.
No matter how devastated they are following the shattering of their heart, they will piece it back together and will do so with greater speed amongst the empathic types. They may suffer considerable pain and they will exhibit the effect more greatly than other empathic types but they also re-charge with a greater speed as a consequence of their devotion to love. Their belief is unshakeable.
No matter how many times they are let down, hurt, cheated on and so forth, they will soon bounce back. They are not naïve but rather have an undimmed and undented belief in the power of love. This capacity for returning to the arena of love so promptly after heartache means that they are ideal candidates for post discard and post escape hoovers as they ‘refuel’ so quickly.
The Geyser Empath is highly sensitive and will be moved to tears regularly be they tears of joy or tears of pain. There will often be a need for a tissue when this person is around. One might be moved to consider them as someone pathetic but that would be an inappropriate label. Yes the Geyser Empath is very easy to manipulate into spurting out fuel and because of their beliefs they will suffer repeated hurts but their strength lies in their unwavering belief in love and how they soon bounce back following their set backs.
They will do Misery 2.0 when they are wounded and hurt, the sobbing, the wailing and the tears will be extensive but it will not last. They do not wallow, but wipe away the tears, reapply the mascara, smooth down the rumpled clothes and climb right back on to their Unicorn of Love and Hope and gallop into the fray once again. The Geyser Empath can exhibit unpredictability of response.
There will always be emotion, which suits our kind, but the extent and intensity of it may at times be so startling that it actually affects the standing of the narcissist with third parties who look on and witness what appears to them to be histrionics and melodrama. Exerting control over this emotional output can at times prove difficult for all save the Greater Narcissist.
The Geyser Empath lacks the serenity of the Magnet Empath and there is no cool deliberation of the Carrier. The Geyser will erupt with emotion with squeals of delight at the good news of a friend who is to be a parent, the triumphant praise for a colleague who has secured a promotion and the devastated collapse following the death of a loved one. The Geyser Empath believes that everyone has the capacity to love and that once they do, all their ills will be solved.
This person appeals to all schools of narcissist because of the high fuel content that is provided and the ease by which it can be provoked. They are easy to seduce but tend to suffer swifter devaluations than other empaths because they shine brighter and thus run the risk of our kind becoming familiar with their fuel in a quicker time so that the potency loses its lustre sooner.
As explained above however, they are prime candidates for hoovers and often the hoover bar is lower for them as a consequence of the narcissist knowing that so much delicious fuel will become available with the added bonus of it being hoover fuel and furthermore because the devotion to love means that the Geyser Empath has a greater susceptibility to giving second, third and fourth chances.
The Geyser Empathic tendency is evident in all of the classes of empathic individuals. This tendency is often seen amongst the Co-Dependent class when this tendency manifests in an extreme form. Its presence will exist in Empaths but tends to be mixed with other empathic tendencies as well so the effect will be slightly diluted but not muted.
With regard to the Super Empath it is unusual to see the Geyser Empathic tendency because of the Super Empath’s inherent resilience to both a sudden devaluation and being hoovered.
The Lesser is drawn to those with this tendency because the effort required is so minimal to prompt a response and thus accords with the Lesser narcissist’s lower energy levels and reduced cognitive function for manipulation and machinations.
The Mid-Ranger will also be attracted because of the fuel on offer and the ease by which it can be harvested but the emotional volatility can become wearing to the Mid-Ranger because he will struggle to assert control to achieve some of his aims.
The Greater revels in those with Geyser Empathic tendencies finding the sudden eruptions amusing and playing straight into his portrayal of the individual as unbalanced and unhinged. He or she will take a perverse pleasure in provoking the Geyser into giving more and more fuel.
80 thoughts on “The Geyser Empath”
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Quote from Lori:
” And so you describe the Codependent. We seek validation and then when we get it, it’s great for a little bit then boom bored! We must then seek a better source of validation.”
So basically you are looking for fuel, and when you get that, you move on to next supply. How ironic.
So I’m a geyser/super empath! Interesting! I’ll go with that. Thanks for the borderline reference in there HG as it helped me see what type I am. As you do not normally have a the super element with the geyser. Would that mean I was rare or not?
Oh great! I was just looking for borderline sites among word press, and what do ya know, here is HG Tudor. Then I read this, about geyser empaths and what do ya know…. geyser empaths are usually borderline’s or can be….
I’m trying to look for someone like HG, but who is all about BPD. That would be perfect!
Sometimes I really hate you HG. I’m sure the feeling is mutual!
Borderlines have emphaty? I dont buy that. I have seen many BPDs at my work and my personal life. They may think that they can heal with their love. This is nothing but a narcissistic delusion. Who they think they are? Gods? Angels? They find their “preys” that make them feel MORALLY SUPERIOR and their victims inferior. Their “healing” is nothing but an attempt to control and power. When you actually call them out of their manipulations and don´t give them what they want they become VICIOUS just like narcs. They have mastered victim game, and they seem to think that their pain is so special and unique that nobody can understand it. Another narcissistic delusion. Nothing is ever their fault. ‘And they TWIST the facts so you may actually think its all your fault. EVER. When they end up with narc, they get brutally abused. In a way, this serves their OWN NARCISSISTIC DELUSIONS OF MORAL SUPERIORITY AND VICTIMHOOD. No wonder narcs and bpds are drawn to each other. Both get what they “want” in this sadomasochistic, twisted game.
In my opinion bpds are wolves in clothes of sheep.
If you dont believe me, just search some stories of their victims.
Hello HG,
Please may I ask a question of you?
I’m being a massive contradiction in wanting to know the answer to this , but can you advise me of which school of empath you believe I come under please?. I think I’m in the standard empath group? But I can’t work out what type. I relate to traits in most of the articles, but none scream out to me with an answer. This is the last one I have read, and again I relate to some but not all elements, and I don’t relate to the degree intensity of emotion described here.
Should I just stick with standard empath?
The truth seeker / curious person in me wants to know the answer to this. The rest of me thinks I’m an idiot for wanting another label…. I think I should change my name to Mary…
I only do so through consultation because of the information required and even if I could form a view from what people have written on the blog (which is not a common situation) it would open the floodgates request wise.
Thank you for your reply, I understand. It wasn’t a good question to ask in this regard, and for the reasons you have advised of.
I love this term! I am always saying “I feel” when most people would use the term “I think”. Great read!
Thank you.
You made me laugh HG…..hop on to the unicorn of love! Jolly hilarious!
Lori,
Interesting. I see how that’s similar to the narcissist. Do you feel fear (like you’re “out of your element”) in connecting on a deeper level — or is it more like disdain (manifesting as boredom/irritation), for the inevitable imperfections of another human being?
Sorry, these are probably heavy questions for a Friday! 🙂
Lori,
This is in reply to you… have no idea why it landed where it did!
To further expand on that, I don’t have to necessarily be with a narc. I will find this validation at my job whereby I make sure I’m the one who solves all the problems. The validation can come from various areas of my life but if a Narc is present he will latch on to me.
Thanks for explaining all that, Lori. It’s interesting, and it is also making me reflect on my past interactions with the narcissist, and a few ways he’s shown/described his “attachment” to me… but it’s weird, in that I don’t feel like I fit any categories quite right! I think I’m pretty self-reflective, but I just see a mish-mash of various elements. “Hi, I’m Caroline… the Odd Empath.” 🙂
Thank you, for your patient explanation. I really *do* get how narcissists and co-dependents are drawn to dance with each other.
Caroline,
It manifests as a boredom. A codependent seeks validation through fixing, problem solving and crisis management. If there is none of the present, there is no validation. They will seek it elsewhere. That is why you will see a codependent leave a nice normal good guy for a Narc. Codependents dont devalue you like Narcs do. They just become bored and seek excitement and validation in other ways.
Codependents over feel. Narcs under feel. Both seek to control. Both seek validation from outside the self. They are opposite sides of the same coin.
Codependents seek validation and Narcs seek supply. We become each other’s dealers. Hence the dance between the Codependent and the Narc. These two feel most comfortable together because our core wound is the same. The Codependent and the Narc will feel as though they have met their other other. The Codependent sees their darker side that they reject in the Narc and the Narc sees the “good” side of themselves if only they could feel. So on the onset these two feel whole at first
The best way I can describe it is the Codependent was wounded as child or from an event and left with a scar. The Narc was killed. Yes they live and breath but essentially their true self / soul was killed and false self replaced the now deceased true self
That was a nice explanation, Lori.
Lori. I have lived every word you expressed in your comment and as I was reading it, all I could think was, “Oh God, Oh God!” I don’t typically come across much new info or posts that scream at me these days since I’ve been studied out, so to speak. But your comment here, it really got me. Straight to the jugular. I’m going to copy and paste it to send to my therapist. It was really well written and you nailed my life story here. I just can’t seem to get out of being stuck here. There must be a solution that’s only for us codependents that makes sense to me. I’m still looking..
.thank you for such an insightful comment.
Does anyone else’s narc tend to (underhandedly) seem to seek “reassurance” all the time? My MRN lately has been adding “IF you want to” or “IF you’d like that” to the end of his texts or emails. For example…
“Yes we can have a phone call tomorrow IF you still want to talk to me…”
or
“Let’s have a phone call later this week on Thursday or Friday. IF you’d like that sort of thing…”
Really? Why would I inquire or ask unless I wanted to talk to you, dip shit dumbass?
I replied with “Seeking reassurance are you? If I did not want to talk to you, I would not try to call or ask when we can talk.” I then took his text, put it in quotes and texted back “IF I want to….WTF kind of bullshit is that?” and I then called him a “Wisesass” and send an eye roll emoji.
He did not reply to the text. But he still called me.
Gabrielle,
My narcissist has never asked stuff like that, but it’s obvious to me that yours wants you to gush forth your adoration.
Your reaction to this is rather interesting! You know what I think? I think if this guy really showed you he wants you — only you — and gave you consistent attention… you’d get bored.
I think you’re seeking his approval… but if you ever consistently got it, you’d lose interest in him.
Caroline,
Interesting observation. Maybe that is why he acts the way he does. He used to give me constant and consistent attention and then he took it away piece by piece. Sadly though, I think you are right with your theory. I think so too. Lately it has just been one sarcastic response after another fired back to him with some of the “woe is me” stuff he says. He may want me to gush with love and adoration HOWEVER there are times when I do just that and he has often gone on the opposition too.
“You need to stop telling me how you feel about me.”
“Please stop telling me you love me. I cannot hear it anymore”
“I already know how you feel about me. You do not need to keep repeating it”
“You are too good to me.”
“I do not deserve you.”
As I have said 100’s of times….it is always opposite day. It’s like he wants me to do the opposite and then when I do he wants the opposite of that!
He’s an UMR, right? He seems to feel a fair amount of shame — really wants that façade intact — but does whatever he wants, whilst he talks in circles, to distract himself from reality.
In other words, it’s:
U…Useless!
M…Must
R…Run!
🙂
Ha ha very good.
Thank you, Mr. Tudor!:-)
Caroline,
There was always a debate between MMR and UMR. So….one of those for sure.
Gabrielle,
Don’t the MMRs whine more than the UMRs? Well, anyway, if he’s an MMR, easy enough. It’s simply:
M…Miserable!
M…Must
R…Run!
😉
Caroline,
And so you describe the Codependent. We seek validation and then when we get it, it’s great for a little bit then boom bored! We must then seek a better source of validation.
The Codependent is most comfortable in a state of wanting.
So true, it’s the need to get a part of yourself – emotional investment, back and re-establish your self image. That, plus familiarity, but it’s mostly the first part. It’s very possible to transform passed being interested in the power games with better self understanding, we’re always evolving anyway. Understanding them is just an elimination process so you can stop projecting and find out what your actual feelings are. I think you’re in a healthy place when you’re no longer ‘working for them’ – internally.
CF
Now you are getting it! It’s always opposite land. Let me translate some Narc speak :
Silent treatment = Keep texting and giving me fuel
Stop telling me how you feel about= please keep doing it. This fuel is tasty
I don’t deserve you = tell me how great I am.
She’s just a friend = I’m still feeling her out to see if she’ll make a good replaceent
I hate you = I hate me
I’m seeing or talking to someone else= I want you to feel the pain I would have felt when you rejected me so I rejected you first so I win and you lose
Interesting, as this is very borderline language too
That’s a great point Caroline. We tend to remember the good and forget the bad… until we’re around them long enough to recall their negative traits, to relive how they prompted our struggles.
(We’d probably find many of them not as interesting if we had unrestricted access.) So I know that you are right, Caroline. We often live in our own fantasy because we tend to conjure up those Golden memories… even once we realize that period will never exist again.
But I think that we aren’t the only ones who “miss” that special time.
Because we are now tainted with the hurt they’ve bestowed, we can’t go back and experience their seduction with the same innocence. They know this better than we do. It’s why (I think) some of them fail to make the effort to re-enter the Formal Relationship… because they want the vulnerabilities of one who will see them as perfect, not one who knows they are not. (Mine even told me once that he always moves forward… that he never looks back. Bullshit. He’s more than looked back.)
Yet that’s their mindset. New. New. New. Until they miss us. I understand that is likely better described as one of HG’s Prime Aims, but it makes me feel better to think that they miss us. 😊 (Because they do… even if it’s only missing what we did for them. I get it.) But for the ones who want us back but really don’t, I think that they hoover just to prove to themselves that they can. Of course, HG explains that hoovering gives them powerful fuel. I get that too, but I want to be more than just a source of necessities or a test of some dude’s virility.
I say this because I received a text just a bit ago from a dear friend. She was innocently letting me know that my narcissist’s band will be opening at a public event coordinated by her fiance’s friend. So naturally, she sent me a screenshot of the promotional flyer. I haven’t physically seen my narcissist in a year now, so looking at his image, standing beside his bandmates that I once befriended… well, it’s hard.
So I come here to be with you all during these moments… to gain strength… and to remember that I am not alone.
I hope that we all can get away from that desire to want them… or to want them to want us. Each time mine tried to “come back,” he always let me down.
Working on ways to seek validation elsewhere is necessary. Finding validation from within… is paramount. Time (and effort) and distance has helped me to see things more clearly, so I hope that sweet Challenge Fuel will be able to resist that southern charmer long enough to get his saccharine out of her system.
And as hard as it is, HG is sooo correct on his No Contact policy. That truly is the only way to reassess these situations… is to get away long enough to gain some clarity.
Just seeing his image has me rattled. I hate that he holds this much power over me.
But I do believe that once we take a break from their attention, their sweet words and their tender touch… eventually, their charm can no longer cover their misdeeds. Whenever I get to missing certain qualities of my narcissist, his negative traits find their way through… more quickly than before. When I’m not wrapped up in his sporadic charm… he’s suddenly not so special.
(Or at least those periods of longing are getting shorter. Honestly, it’s still there… especially after just seeing a new photo of him… but I am doing my best to follow advice from the headmaster and not allow my brain to hold onto narc-thoughts.)
I don’t really get why we are like this… but it certainly seems to be human nature to want what we can’t have… and to not fully appreciate what we do have. Ugh! So frustrating, and I’m so guilty! But it’s true CF… part of your desire for him is that he is unattainable. We girls tend to do that. 😜
I apologize (as I’m sure I’ve missed this information elsewhere) but Challenge Fuel, how long of a break have you ever taken from him?
BKK,
5 months.
Aw, really big hug, BKK. Really? Did she *have* to send you a promo flier of the band? 🙁
Okay, now I have to counter that mighty memory morsel with the dark reality of life with a narcissist. It’s the Hard Knock Life! I’m heading out the door (or I’d try to come up with funny narcissistic lyrics to go along with the link) — but living with a narcissist is (sadly) like being in a loved-starved orphanage (not that all orphanages are like this~some are run by very caring people, but I’m making a specific point)…
So, as you watch this, see all those fun, resilient, high-energy, clever, creative, spirited little girls? Empaths. You can’t hold down the Empaths. They’re born rebels, in their own way. Born to be wild, as in free… and born to be loved (note: they *are* bonded to each other). 🙂 Ya gotta love the outdoor balcony scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0bOH8ABpco
Meh, the band. You have “Annie.” lol
Wow CF… that’s great!
I am impressed by your determination to make it that far. Yet it shows how hard this is… to be five months free and to get pulled back.
I can only boast 35 days. But that’s double my record of two weeks! While I have resisted seeing him in person for a year now, I had been weak with “staying in touch.”
So, making sincere no contact is an accomplishment for me… a day shy of five weeks! But it only took a few seconds to fuck up.
I was doing so well. I know what I want out of life… and it is not this. They want us back so much, yet they don’t want really us. It’s our Fuel. I get it. But if it were just Fuel… they could gas up anywhere? There’s a readily available source on practically every street corner.
Why does the source matter to someone who doesn’t really care? There is more to this entanglement. And I have become uncomfortable with the intensity.
I can be so disciplined in other areas of my life. (Tell me that I can’t, and I will prove to you that I can.) I was raised that way. My father told me that if I fail at something, try again. His attitude was: There is no shame in failure, but there’s great shame in quitting. I must pick myself back up and try again. There simply wasn’t much choice. My mother told me that sheer will and determination can accomplish great things. She encouraged me by telling that I could do anything… if I just put my mind to it.
But I was never prepared for this.
I also messed up recently left him Feb 2 and went no contact blocked him he kept making new accounts and messaging me Wednesday and Thursday he messaged again as well as the beginning of April Thursday night I finally broke down and replied ??? Meaning what do u want but I just put three question marks instead of words he never answered all the other times he hoovered it was to restart the relationship this time I’m convinced he hooveted simply to get me to reply just so he could ignore my reply and in his mind discard me since I discarded him he thinks he won now so be it it just further de.o Strate’s to me to never ever break no contact again
Ha! “Why would I inquire or ask unless I wanted to talk to you, dip shit dumbass?” That’s a good point Challenge Fuel.
I experienced this, back when we were actually talking, after our big break from his big reveal (of being unfaithful to the tenth power). Once he returned from his silence, I started to get some of what you describe G. Bean.
After I gave him back his key, he’d say. “The door is unlocked if you want to come by.” He even tried, “I am freezing in this bed all alone. I remember how much better you slept at my place. I will leave the door unlocked if you want to come over.”
Well, I would sleep better by his side, but only because I knew exactly where he was! @At the time, I thought he tried his “ifs” more as a way to guage where I was at… by dipping a toe to test the waters.
Once I had the undeniable evidence of his indiscretions, I was very hard on him, so I also think that this “if approach” was a way of softening the blow (to himself) if I rejected his offer (which I did).
While I can’t say for certain what was going on inside my narc’s head, his “if approach” seemed to me as if he were trying to portray himself as — I’m not really asking this for me, you know… I’m ALLOWING you to visit, IF you want… for YOUR benefit… so take it or leave it… I’ll be fine either way. (a.k.a…. My Ego is Huge.)
And with my narcissist, it also had an element of — I am offering you a chance to spend some time with me because I know that I didn’t treat you right… so I am playing nice… even though I don’t really know how to be, especially after all of the shit I put you through… It seems you’ve grown resistant to my charm… so seeing that I have lost some power over you, I am going to try another approach to mend this… to reach out to pull you back… but only IF you want… because it’s no biggie either way. (a.k.a…. I Need Fuel But I Fear Rejection So I Am Leading with Pride to Protect My Fagile Ego.)
When mine would say “if you want to,” it felt like a self-protective approach to me. It made me think that he was trying to portray himself as a man not forcing the issue because — If you reject me, I won’t give a fuck because I was only offering it as a favor to YOU. (But I REALLY need you to not reject me!)
I don’t know, Challenge Fuel… It feels almost like another tactic of trying to be humble, but also putting the desire back on you… because the rejection of you pushing back… declining him clearly wounds. So instead, he is testing to see if you will take the bait… but not because HE is fishing. (His angelic face stays clean.)
By this point, they knows that we are on to them, so they play nice again. But using their massive charm skills from the Golden Period… well, it’s like they either don’t want to expend the energy or they don’t want to face another rejection… so they play it in the middle with a feigned kindness of “asking” us for fuel… as a favor… but the favor is for us. (Twist until dry. How lucky are we?! 😛
But one thing is for sure… they like to keep us guessing. So he could only be saying it to simply mix things up a bit… knowing you’ll wonder why he’s asking in an “innocent aw-shucks” manner. He appears to be doing whatever it takes to stay on your mind. So as HG has taught us… whatever the manner Piano Boy is asking “if”…. he’s doing it for Fuel.
This makes sense to me.
They are do very but can’t stand to appear to be in need. Need = weakness. These people cannot stand to be viewed ad weak. Weakness= vuknerability and vice versa. They cannot tolerate. The other thing they cannot handle is rejection. So that is why we get those response. That way they avoid appearing needy. Of course with these types of comments they project their need on to you and mitigate any rejection.
Every thing they say is strategic
So true Lori… and also what you said elsewhere about them rejecting us before we reject them. That was his modus operandi… to beat me to the punch. Whenever he sensed that I was pulling away, he’d charm me back … do about whatever it took to keep me. But if I was showing anger and strength, frustrated enough to be on the verge of ending it, he’d make sure it was HIS idea. Ha!
Or of course, he’d just go silent. He was the master of silent treatments. When he was much younger, his mother did not approve of a girlfriend. He is close to his mother and she has a significant amount of control over him, but he stood up for his girlfriend as he felt that his mother’s judgement of her was too harsh. Supposedly, he went a VERY long time not speaking to his mother over this (several years.) They simply had a falling-out, but he is stubborn. He does not want to be the first to extend the olive branch. But I’m pretty certain he stayed hoping his mother would break first. Actually, they are both stubborn mules.
The odd thing about that, is he speaks to his mother everyday. They are very close. I believe that she is one of the few people who he has sincere feelings for… he admires his mother for all that she has endured from life in general and from his father (who I also believe is a narcissist). Both of his parents have worked very hard in their careers, and his father is also a local politician, but it is his mother’s work ethic that he admires most. She is always staying busy… doing for the family while dad is on the golf course. I’ve seen him tear up many times over some of the things his mother has been through.
And I really don’t think that those tears were fake. He almost seemed embarrassed to let those emotions show. Deep down, I believe my narcissist has a heart (attack tender one, actually) But just as you said Lori, he’s too busy trying to protect his pride… to not be rejected, so he comes across as a heartless shit.
My cocky smooth-talker definitely has a fragile ego. As much of a take-charge, hard-working, pulled-together fellow he portrays, it was his wounds buried deep inside that pulled me in. (Yikes! I have issues. 😯)
A* tender heart… not attack* tender heart. (Auto-correct… but was that an Auto-Correct-Freudian-Slip? 😀) Some of my mistakes are sheer typos, but sometimes predictive text will come up with some good ones. I’m sorry that adds to the difficulty in trying to decipher my messages. They’re probably hard enough without additional obstacles.
I can tell that you’ve been through a lot, Lori… that you’ve worked hard to understand and manage life’s obstacles. You’ve earned your insight, no doubt.
Challenge Fuel
Im not trying to be mean but I want to point something out to you in case you have never considered it.
He is no more contradictory than you for someone else looking in. You roll your eyes at things he says, mock his name, call him a wise ass and a dumb ass, make fun of what he says and does, and then pine for him, pant away for any little scrap he throws you, and stay totally addicted to him. It seems like Challenge Fuel opposite day in all your posts.
I see your opinion, and you are certainly entitled to it. But I think the same can be said about other people on this blog giving similar advice to detach from the narc but then they continue to engage with their narc.
The reason why I challenge his contradictions is partly because I hope that maybe he will see how ridiculous and contradictory he is.
I doubt many people will understand my rationale and sharing this explanation but it’s what’s in my head at the current moment.
I’ve noticed that too, Little Angel… and I’m thinking she may sometimes be like that because either:
1) She despises weakness in *herself* — so when she senses weakness in him (even fake reassurance-seeking), she then lashes out (but it’s really more about feelings toward herself) or
2) She has a lot of pent-up anger toward him, from his abusive treatment, so when he’s more “compliant,” she sometimes unleashes anger toward him — an opportunity to unload, so to speak.
But I could be totally wrong, because I’m thinking how I think it makes sense to me…I think. Lol.
(Not trying to talk about you like you’re not in the room, Gabrielle — you know empaths — we care!).
1) She despises weakness in *herself* — so when she senses weakness in him (even fake reassurance-seeking), she then lashes out (but it’s really more about feelings toward herself) or
2) She has a lot of pent-up anger toward him, from his abusive treatment, so when he’s more “compliant,” she sometimes unleashes anger toward him — an opportunity to unload, so to speak.
——–
Caroline,
I have been to several therapists about my situation and was told a few different things/explanations but what you just wrote above (1) seems to make a hell of a lot more sense than anything else I have ever heard. I do feel weakness in myself. I crave his attention like you would not believe but when he acts like me (by underhandedly seeking the same validation) it’s annoying as hell and it makes me “lash” out, although the lashing out is more sarcastic than being insulting or nasty. I often wonder if maybe I am the narc because some of our exchanges make me feel like I am.
Re: (2) …. the anger I feel. It comes and goes. I often joke that he has a 6th sense and know this because it is when he reaches out and gives me the reassurance that he often (underhandedly) seeks!
2 sides to a fucking dysfunctional coin we both are. (I am borrowing that statement from someone else here who posted it, sorry I cannot remember who).
You are not talking like I am not in the room. I understand the points you are trying to make. You definitely illustrate your point in a more polite manner (well for my interpretation anyway).
I’m really glad I didn’t put you off with my reflections, Gabrielle. Nobody wants to see you hurt anymore, so we all have our way about us to try to reach out a hand to you, so we try our best.
I do get that your addiction is really strong. I understand. I had to come to terms with leaving the narcissist after being with him for 3 years (no clue he was a narcissist, as unbelievable as that seems)… for me, it was a lot of breaking up/making up cycles toward the end that just wore me out, along with so many awful games. I was increasingly miserable/confused, so I remember there came a time when even though I didn’t feel like it, I’d get away and go out with friends, just to do it — when all I was thinking of the whole time was how to fix this mindboggling, tumultuous relationship, because I felt like I HAD to… then a super nice/cute guy tried to pull me away from the narcissist, etc. At this point, all my friends and family knew the narcissist was bad news/a major control freak (they didn’t know the half of it — I really kept everything to myself).
So bit by bit, the grip the narcissist had on me began to loosen, and I just started to feel better not being around him. I had a lot that kept me busy, which helped too. My normally super strong will really kicked back in, after awhile. Part of my problem was that I am incredibly loyal… usually, that’s a plus, but not when you have a narcissist stuck on you! And there was another big reason, that all females can easily figure out (the unmentioned). But, anyway, we all have those things that hold us back, stuck in their grip… because they knew just how to get us there.
I’m telling you this to encourage you that *any* learning, reflecting and positive actions you take do matter, as they build… you may not be someone who will just — BOOM — soak up the info and go NC, with sheer strength of will. A lot of people don’t! It may take a lot of stops and starts, and it is heartbreaking and messy, which is hard for people to watch play out, because they feel frustrated/helpless (I know–my close friends wanted to shake me!)… you’ll obsessively talk about and analyze the narcissist… then maybe feel such anger that you tell him off and drop him for other attention for awhile… then break down and text him… then come on the blog and see something that pings in you or makes you feel less alone..or you laugh and gain some joy or perspective… perhaps you consult with HG and feel more empowered… then later slip up again…and on and on it goes, a series of steps of progress and setbacks…
Just don’t lose heart, girl. You’re very bright. You do know what is going on. You don’t want to accept it — but you know. Just keep trying to get to a better place for YOU. Don’t give up on yourself, ever. You’re worth fighting for… you deserve to feel happy and whole, however long and whatever it takes to get there. 🙂
Ditto what Narc Angel said.
CF:
I have wanted to say something similar but I find I lack the energy to do so, plus I am a believer that there’s nothing that any of us can say, as you have to be the one to make the change.
However, from what I have observed you seem to go through HG’s articles looking for reason after reason for why this guy is a jerk. It’s like you need constant confirmation of your feelings.
That’s because intellectually you know what he has done to you is wrong, but emotionally you are still believing he is a great guy, and so you want proof, proof, proof.
I can tell you that it will not only never get better with him, but you will find yourself in the same situation years from now unless you stop talking to him. Each time you do, it weakens you and he tightens his grip on you. He will always be in control for as long as you allow it. It has never been about you, in his world, and it never will be. He lives for himself.
What more does he need do to convince you?
CF
He will never see how ridiculous he is. That is not possible for a Narcissist.
Nothing drives these guys nuts and draws them back into your life than you cutting off supply and truly getting healthy and on with your life. That drives them bat shit crazy as it signifies a loss of control. Do not try to fake it. He will see right through ir. You have to truly get on with your life and then bam there they are
This guy will never idealize you again as long as you are in this state with him. In fact, he will lose all respect for you not that he really ever had any but he have contempt and see you as pathetic in which he tells himself “look at her I could never be with someone that weak. I deserve the best the brightest the strongest. I was right to dump her. ” I’m telling you this is what goes on in their brain.
If you continue to talk to him, he will want you less and less. He’s tired of strawberry ice cream.
And trust me I was 3 weeks no contact and one conversation set me back 3 weeks. Now I’m back one week and starting to feel better.
There is truth in the sound advice given from everyone on this thread. That’s what makes being here such a blessing. (HG’s greatness attracts sharp followers. 😊) I personally have benefitted from the comments of others who have trudged the same path. So I hope that my words, while they may not always be helpful… certainly hope they never offend.
I can relate to what so many of you have endured. It’s as if we all were given the same purpose in life… to somehow figure out the best ways to survive the maltreatment of a narcissist.
We are already aware of the raw truth that we are dealing with an addiction. Pulling away from the narcissistic/empathic relationship is similar to tobacco cessation or alcohol abstinence or opioid withdrawal or simply pushing away from the table supporting a delicious plate of food.
We all got something… and apparently shoes count too. 😔
Everyone will perform differently in his/her attempts to kick to the curb his/her unigue addiction. Some have a strong desire to eliminate the negative; others see benefits (the euphoria of the feel-good) so their stronger addictive qualities make success more difficult to achieve. (Yet those same addictive attributes can bring about success in certain areas to a level others will struggle to achieve. It’s odd how passion, drive, loyalty and determination can manifest in both positive and negative ways.)
I have seen, throughout my career, the struggles with the actual substances listed above. But it wasn’t until recently that I became familiar with the unsettling addiction to a person, or rather, the illusion of love.
It’s sad really. I’ve seen some very strong-willed folks succumb to their weaknesses, and I’ve seen some meek and mild ones drop their addictions like a hot potato and never look back.
And I’ve seen plenty bounce all over the place, between periods of great success and heartbreaking failures.
But as long as we educate, support and try and try and try… until we succeed… then I will hold onto that “dreaded hope” that the world will become a better place… one recovered empath at a time.
🙆❤🌎✌
Hang in there Challenge Fuel. (We will get our diplomas in due time.)
Just to clarify, CF … When I said diplomas, I meant… graduate from narc-school…. not some diploma on addiction. (Not that I haven’t earned one of those already!)
I understand how hard this must be for you, Challenge Fuel. I deal with similar feelings as your narc seems to share traits with mine. (Charming lads, they are.) We want their attention because we fell in love with their positive qualities. (There’s that darn charming component again.) Yet, once we realize that their sincerity isn’t what we thought, we become angry at ourselves for still wanting something from them… attention, validation, intimacy… whatever we’re missing at the moment.
I think those of us who are still emotionally entangled with our narcissist have the same sensation. We love them for their Golden Period qualities, but we are angry at them for ripping their attention and promises away. For me, it really is a love/hate feeling. His indiscretions made me ‘hate’ him for putting me in a position to where I knew I needed to walk away, yet I couldn’t stop loving him even though that’s what I wanted/needed to do.
I was disappointed in myself for still ‘wanting’ someone who disrespected me. So what Carolyn said is spot on for me. Perhaps that ‘mirroring’ they do is not just for seduction. My narcissist triggers a part of myself that I’m not so proud of, so it’s easy to stay frustrated at him for stirring up those unsettling emotions.
My anger is so frustrating because I have let very few men into that deeper part of my heart. Even after everything he did, I couldn’t just remove him from that place. They have our hearts because we gave that part of ourselves to them, yet they won’t ‘give’ our hearts back because they want to keep a footing there.
That’s why my rational brain (and HG) will tell me that no contact is the way to break free, but to tell my heart to stop loving someone… not so easy. So we have this inner turmoil going on that seems contradictory, and it is, but it’s a sincere contradiction nonetheless.
It feels a bit like how HG describes his need for Fuel. HG has mentioned that he doesn’t like being reliant on another for something he needs. Deep down, we are like the narcissist. We are just as angry that we are dependent on them for validation even though we know that we could find that elsewhere… but instead of finding it from within, it’s just easier to find it in the familiar because they did a splendid job of acknowledging us during the GP. (Maybe deep down, we think that we own them too! ☺)
My emotions go from one extreme to the other regarding my narcissist. I ‘hate’ him for having this much power over me. Yet I ‘hate’ myself for giving him the power.
No, mine is a grandiose, tyrannical sadist. aka a big baby. I hope that you have other projects going on, habit begins with a small step, @Challenge!
CF
Are you still talking to this guy? Be honest
If so you have to address this addiction you have and that’s all it is is pure addiction.
Be honest with yourself what are you trying to achieve by continuing? Are you trying to ressurect the golden period? Cause if you are I can pretty much guarantee you that will not happen as long as you continue to talk to him. Why would he ?he gets what he wants with zero energy expended. Second, in order for there to be any chance for it to return, your fuel has to become tasty to him. Right now he’s gagging on it because he’s had way too much strawberry ice cream in HG’s example and at this point negative fuel doesn’t make him gag as much. These people have to create contrast. You have no contrast because you keep serving strawberry ice cream. He doesn’t like it anymore yet you keep bringing it to him
But the biggest thing in this is he has a wife and a baby on the way. Even if this guy wasn’t a Narc, this would’ve have had no possibility of working out. Would you want to break up his marriage when there is an innocent child on the way?
I’m not judging you. I was exactly like this with Narc 1 when I was young, but you have to deal with this addiction. you cannot continue to feed this addiction. It will consume you. You will lose precious years of your life.
There is no possible good outcome but I can guarantee you the golden will mot return as long as you are still in contact with him
Lori, someone else in the thread asked the same question but yes I am still talking to him intermittently.
You’re STILL talking to him !?
W,
Yes, I am. Intermittently but yes.
I’m not sure about all the technical terms…I can’t really categorize myself and am not sure I like being pigeonholed and labeled. I consider myself a nice and decent person, but I definitely don’t wear my heart on my sleeve and can sense when an ominous occasion calls for a huge does of sangfroid. I think I will just classify myself as a formerly Stupid Woman who is now Woke. Live and learn. To quote a line from “Legally Blonde:” “If you are going to let one stupid prick ruin your life, you’re not the girl I thought you were.”
*dose* (Edit feature needed!)
So glad the patriarchy can’t send us to electroshock therapy anymore!
The reason for the speedy recovery, while being highly reactive, has to do with temporarily shutdown cognition during the fight-flight triggered response, which like narcs have is a defence mechanism, yet it preserves emotion.
There’s many layers to this:
Impulses are strong and split: yes! No! Fight! Flight! Freeze!
But feelings —our conscious awareness and values, plus emotions —our inner biographical landscape (memory), can be as subtle, deep and complex as any intelligent person, usually we’re creative.
So i’ll respond strongly, but that person triggering my affect doesn’t necessarily play an important role in my emotional identity. I seem born-yesterday but i see through facades and constructs. Social life is abit detached, but internally, i have a lot of freedom.
Narcs like me ‘cause they’re vain.
Oh yes and there is a lack of ‘structure’ ahem, and outpour/flooding is a need sometimes. Pretty good description.
narcy controls via sex and macho behaviours, i get sucked back in through drama, this time apparently he’s my executive boss.
I am very sensitive.
I cry at movies, Xmas adverts, Unicef clean water appeals …I can’t help it.
I also remember getting overexcited when expressing my gratitude for all the little things nex did for me in a golden period. He loved winding me up and teasing me to get this emotional response from me.
On the other hand, I shut myself down when I’m hurt and I put a brave face on.I don’t want people to witness my upset. I will only cry when no one can see it.
That’s me. 2 years of therapy, my therapist stumped as to why I kept falling for hoover’s, and you posted this, a description so eloquent and truthfully descriptive, I know now.
I have some traits of a geyser but im definitely not a geyser empath. I am very sensitive but i hide it a lot of the time and especially now that i know about negative fuel.
Ditto here, Narc Affair.
I do the same, Narc Affair. Even before learning about narcs, I’ve always had this sense of not wanting to give someone the satisfaction of knowing they got to me. Sometimes, I’m better at hiding it than others.
I’m definitely not a geyser he had to beg to get fuel out of me I never in our entire relationship texted him without being texted first got hoovered again for the third time last night can’t imagine why as I keep ignoring him I do have the urge to reply with screen shots of his dating ad on Google plus and screenshots of his replys to other woman’s pictures in which he says he’s single never married and looking for a relationship filled with honesty and fidelity and faithfulness its starting to get comical
I’m not a Geyser either. I’m pretty sure I’m a Standard Empath. I have the most qualities of the Magnet, but a few qualities of each. I have the very LEAST of the Geyser.
I’ve never pursued a guy – don’t ooze compliments to them – and would never knock myself out to keep one. Why would I? I see no point. His big complaint about me when I was with him was that I didn’t take enough “ownership” in the relationship, whatever that means. He actually needs a Geyser…but he’d likely get bored/not respect her — and then treat the Geyser like crap. So instead, he chases me. It’s truly dumb!
There’s no resolution for these people.
OK. HG I am puzzled because this is definitely me when I read it right down to the codependency however I also see elements of the Super Nova on me. I can be quite unempathetic and cold at times and I do often enjoy the game and will do things to prevoke a reaction in the Narc. As far as bouncing back yes another Narc could come along and I would lose all interest in current Narc
Is it possible to be both Super Nova and Geyser? I’m kinda confused because in reality I have elements of Geyser, Super Nova and Magnet
You cannot be a Supernova, you “go” Supernova. It is an event.
Ok I see. HG I read something on Quora that You said Codepebdents were Narcissists in the making but the progression was arrested and stopped with codepebdency.
I believe this to be true. I am a diagnosed Codependent. I am over empathetic but can also be narcissistic selfish and manipulative and lack empathy and I always control. I do enjoy prevoking reactions from the Narc. I definitely lean more toward overly empathetic but I also exhibit the narcissistic side. Do you think this is because Codependents are “underdeveloped” Narcissists?
If you had to guess, what percentage of victims do you think are Codependent?
Purely on an anecdotal basis 15%.
That’s it, HG??? I’d think more like 50-60%. Wow.
Lori, I’ve read this on Quora too and I agree 110%. I was in line for the pedestal when it was yanked out from underneath me. Try to recover from that little diversion. It’s been downhill all the way.
Hi Moneytha Burns, Standard empaths make up the largest group of empaths, so though Co-D’s are sought after, by some narcs at least, there aren’t as many to go around. Therefore, Standards become the most common, just based on the numbers.
Completely scary to come to know.
So does that mean that I’ll only attract narcissists and not a normal?
Now I know how to turn off someone I suspect of being a narc when approached. Tell them I volunteer at an animal rescue center.
No, Dragonfly, that signals you have empathic traits and may well make you a target.
Dragonfly, I swear I can pick a narcissist out in a crowd, lol.
Just crazy!
Yup…that be me. A sitting target…but that’s okay, I am at peace with caring maybe too much. Better than not caring at all.
“The Mid-Ranger will also be attracted because of the fuel on offer and the ease by which it can be harvested but the emotional volatility can become wearing to the Mid-Ranger because he will struggle to assert control to achieve some of his aims.”
The words in this paragraph really leapt out at me.
“You make me weary BUT that does not mean I do not still love you and/or care about you any less” (EYE ROLL)
“I either make you euphorically happy or downright miserable, you need to be rid of me!”
Always on point you are, HG.
And he does struggle to assert some of his aims too.
Thank you.
I remain a Super. I like being a Super. I can accept this diagnosis. Great article, as usual!!