The Empathic Supernova


What is the Empathic Supernova?

In order to detail this phenomenon, it is first necessary to consider when it might appear and what is behind its appearance.

The repeated application of our manipulations is deployed for the purposes of maintaining control over you. This control reinforces our notion of superiority,  omnipotence and impregnability and enables us to draw fuel from our appliances and most of all you as our primary source.

I have made mention of the Empathic Group, the group which lies to the left of the empathic-narcissistic spectrum and within this group there are three schools of the empathic individual; the Co-Dependent, the Super Empath and the Empath.

The sustained application of the many and varied manipulations produces results for us. It also takes its toll on our victims. The Co-Dependent will cling on, desperate for the self-definition which manifests as a consequence of their ensnarement with us. They will soak up the abuse, the confusion and the control until they reach a point of breakdown. The cumulative effect of the silent treatments, the gas lighting, the physical abuse, the psychological trauma, financial mistreatment and sexual degradation eventually causes the limpet-like Co-Dependent to collapse into numbness, malfunction and potential hospitalisation. They gave and gave until suddenly they fell off the cliff and their fuel provision remained impressive on Monday and by Tuesday it had stopped. No longer capable of pumping out fuel, attending to our requirements and showering us with appropriate traits and residual benefits, this failure to function invariably brings about the discard of this individual. The discarded Co-Dependent, although distraught at the loss of the narcissist which they crave, is in no position to try to bring about the resumption of the relationship and thus, whilst we focus on their replacement primary source, they are allowed a period by which they can recover and once the lights switch back on again and the fuel starts to pump, the devaluation of their replacement has begun, so we come looking and hoovering for the Co-Dependent. Unable to resist, because of the nature of the hoovering and their own vulnerability, they are hoovered back in and the narcissistic cycle continues.

Whilst third parties may try to assist the Co-Dependent to see and understand what has happened to them, their own substantial need to connect with a narcissist means it is very hard to make them take notice and stay away from us. Unless physically removed and isolated, the Co-Dependent will drift back to us. If not the original narcissist, a replacement narcissist will invariably be found.

The empathic-narcissistic spectrum is a sliding scale that represents both empathic and narcissistic traits. On the far left the empathic traits are more numerous and stronger whilst the narcissistic traits are fewer and weaker. Move to the right and the empathic traits begin to lessen in number, their effects less evident and the narcissistic traits begin to increase and become more prevalent. Eventually, as one reaches the Narcissistic Group, on the right of this spectrum, the empathic traits have disappeared and all that remain are narcissistic traits which become more numerous and stronger the further right one goes within this Narcissistic Group.

Accordingly, with the Co-Dependent, he or she will have many empathic traits and they are strong in nature. Their devotion to love, their honesty, decency, excellent listening skills, positivity etc are most evident and contribute to create a highly empathic individual. The narcissistic traits are almost invisible and the few that exist are weak. Accordingly, this prevalence of empathic traits attracts and is attracted to the prevalence of extensive and strong narcissistic traits. They locked together, complementing one another and consequently the Co-Dependent is inexorably drawn to those within the Narcissistic Group, with next to nothing in terms of their own narcissistic traits to act as some kind of repellant.

The Empath may also find themselves shutting down, but more usually they are prevented from reaching a position of complete numbing though the intervention of a third party. Sure enough the toll exacted on the Empath is considerable and has damaging consequences, but, in general, they manage to avoid more often the fate of the Co-Dependent. Instead, rather than giving and giving until shut down occurs (as is the case with the Co-Dependent) the Empath’s performance deteriorates in terms of fuel output in a more gradual fashion which means that when it dips below a threshold of acceptability for our kind, the Empath is also discarded. Not so damaged as to be unable to function, the Empath will endeavour to re-connect with our kind, having sufficient energy and ability to do so, but they will be shunned as part of this discard until it is time to hoover them. Unaware of what they have been ensnared by and with capabilities improved after a period of respite arising from the discard, the Empath is sucked back in by the narcissist and thus the narcissistic cycle continues.

The Empath however may also realise that something is wrong, or assisted by third parties and more amenable to listening, takes notice of what these third parties are telling him or her. They have a moment of ‘awakening’ and with that realise that they must remain away from our grip, however hurtful and hard it may be and thus they eventually escape, putting distance between them and our kind.

The Empath has numerous empathic traits and they are of strength but they are not on the same scale as the Co-Dependent. The Empath will have some narcissistic traits, not many and not especially strong in nature, but they will have more narcissistic traits than the Co-Dependent. Their status as an Empath (along with the fact that there are more Empaths than Co-Dependents) means that Empaths become the bread and butter target for our kind. They too are attracted to us, not with the almost hopeless vulnerability of the Co-Dependent, but they remain not only attracted to our kind but a target.

Finally, there is the Super Empath. The Super Empath is an excellent provider of fuel also and comes with a confidence and a fieriness which proves most tempting to our kind. The Super Empath sees his or her role as helping, fixing, healing and brining goodness to those around them. They have considerable energy, they are capable and their capacity for sustaining our abuses also makes them a considerably attractive prospect. The Co-Dependent can sustain considerable abuse until suddenly, like a light being extinguished, that is it. The Empath also can sustain our manipulations but their slide is slower and more gradual. The Super Empath, blessed with a vast capacity for empathy and goodness is also somebody who can sustain a lengthy campaign of abuse. There is no slide downwards with this individual like the Empath. There is no sudden collapse like the Co-Dependent. Instead the Super Empath goes in to Supernova mode.

The trait make-up of the Super Empath is different from their cousins in the Empathic Group. Whereas the Co-Dependent has strong and many empathic traits with little and low narcissistic traits and the Empath has few and fairly low narcissistic traits but more and quite strong empathic traits, the Super Empath has a different constitution.

The Super Empath has very strong and numerous empathic traits. He or she also has a number of narcissistic traits (more than the Co-Dependent and the Empath but not as many as the Narcissistic Group) and they are stronger in nature than those experienced by the Co-Dependent and the Empath.

This arrangement is not problematic. Liken the Super Empath’s narcissistic make-up to the light from a candle and their empathic make-up the light from a spotlight. The intensity of the spotlight is so bright that the candle light is barely noticed. Accordingly, the narcissistic element to the Super Empath does not appear. The Super Empath behaves in an empathic way and thus is a target for our kind.

There comes a time however when the sustained abuse and the awareness of the Super Empath reaches a critical point. Rather than switch off or slide into decline, the Super Empath will decide that enough is enough. In some instances, this means that the Super Empath will escape and follow a similar route to that of the Empath and distance themselves from the narcissist.

On other occasions they enter into Supernova mode. When this happens, the Super Empath will dim their empathic traits. This can only be dimming. The empathic traits cannot be shut off as they are wired into the empath’s dna. Moreover, this dimming can only continue for a period of time and is not permanent. The naturally strong empathic nature of the Super Empath means that it will blaze bright again.

However, when this dimming takes places, the gap between empathy and narcissism in the Super Empath lessens so that the narcissistic traits are more prevalent. They do not dominate nor do they take over, but they are allowed to ‘shine’. However, whereas in our kind the application of our narcissistic traits is unfettered since we have no empathic traits and thus these traits are directed in a malevolent, harmful and destructive manner, the Super Empath uses these unleashed narcissistic traits for ‘good’.

This means that they will fight back against our kind and remain in the relationship with us. They will shut off the fuel provision, they will engage in manipulation of us, having learned how to effect it form their accompanying journey with out kind. The Super Empath will wound and wound, striking blow upon blow against the narcissist.  It is worth pointing out that the Super Empath does not necessarily know that they are with a narcissist (they may only realise this later) but rather they know that something is very wrong in the relationship and it must no longer continue.

Thus when some people ask the question

“Can you become a narcissist from being with a narcissist?”


“Can I pick up narcissistic traits from my experience of being entangled with a narcissist?”

The answer remains no.

But, if you find that you are exhibiting such traits and you are deploying them against the narcissist, what has happened is that you are allowing your inherent narcissistic traits to have greater prominence. You keep them under control and you are not allowing them to harm or hurt innocent parties, but rather you are applying them against the narcissist in order to strike back. You always had these traits, you have not gained them by being with us, but what you have learned is how to manipulate from being with us and now you are turning those manipulations against us.

The effect against us is varied.

The Lesser Narcissist will discard immediately with a display of ignited fury as he seeks to escape the turning of the tables. He will need to get away from this empowered Super Empath and find a new primary source straight away. He wants to shrink from this blazing  supernova of power which is causing him considerable difficulty through the cessation of fuel and the wounding from repeated criticism.

The Mid-Range Narcissist will find himself in a tormented loop as he tries to assert control. He will not comprehend truly what is happening. He will not want to lose the Super Empath owing to the fuel provision, but he is finding that his ability to manipulate and the reasonable degree of calculation that he has, is being sorely tested. He will try to assert his control through passive aggressive means, even pleading with the Super Empath to stop and ‘why can’t you be good to me again’? He will roll out the pity plays and sympathy cards in order to try to achieve superiority again. However,  either the Super Empath decides to escape and leaves the Mid-Ranger in a confused and bewildered state or the Mid-Ranger slinks away and discards,unable to sustain the fight and needing a new and far more compliant primary source.

The Greater Narcissist will rail against this insurrection and fight back. He will draw on fuel from alternative sources (usually the IPSS or IPSSs he has in the wings along with fuel form those NISS who are his inner and outer circle friends). He will relish the challenge shown by the Super Empath and a real battle of wills ensues as each combatant deploys manipulation after manipulation against one another. This hammer and tongs clash of the  titans sees the Super Empath applying what they have learned, similar to the apprentice turning on his or her master, as the old hand seeks to slap down the irreverent upstart. The Super Empath may withdraw and escape, satisfied that they have made their mark and scarred the Greater. The Greater may ultimately recognise that only a stalemate (for now) can ensue and breaks off, discarding the Super Empath and focusses on the acquisition of a new primary source (or more likely the promotion of an already ensnared IPSS). The Greater however will not leave matters there. A note will be made to rejoin battle in due course and bring the Super Empath to heel.

Thus the Empathic Supernova is when the Super Empath determines that enough is enough and he or she reduces their empathic traits, allowing the narcissistic traits to come to the fore and in so doing he or she trains their sights on making life difficult, miserable and awkward for the narcissist. This is why our kind proceed with caution with the Super Empath. Their capacity for sucking up the abusive devaluation and their impressive fuel provision is tempting indeed, but reaching the critical point and causing the ignition of the Empathic Supernova can have dire consequences for our kind.

Not for me of course. I relish the challenge and the assertion of hegemonic dominance. Obviously.


320 thoughts on “The Empathic Supernova”

  1. Re: getting vengence on a narcissist. Imo if youre putting the time and thought into doing this youre still stuck in the narc cycle. Youre also sacrificing more of your life to their game. You can only fully heal once youve detached fully and no longer waste your time trying to get even with these types. Youre kidding yourself if you think thatll be the healing factor you know what they say about wrestling with a pig youll get muddied as well. Dont waste anymore of your time in the toxic narc cycle you can heal still engaged in it. The best vengence is them no longer mattering to you!!

  2. Yeah, I’ve experienced SESN a few times and it is awesome. I’ve done it about three times now but before weaponisation. First time was with a GCN, second with a ULSN and then finally with the GEN (who I fell properly in love with). It didn’t stop the last one and his IGH when it came about a month later was brilliant in it’s intensity and duration. He finally ‘broke through’ after a while and our relationship continued. Because HG weaponised me, I knew it would be coming. If I hadn’t have been weaponised, I doubt I would have held on for as long as I did.

    This is a reason why I also tread with caution on dealing with the Greaters and especially the Elite’s. Those IGU’s are really difficult to resist. IGU’s from the other schools are a doddle now.I bat them away.

    1. Renarde – what do you mean when you say you were weaponised? What did the IGH consist of?

  3. Can empaths evolve? For example looking back I acted like the codependent as time went by i noticed i was an empath, and now i identify myself more with the super.

    Can one become strong enough to evolve?

    1. There may be some change within a school or cadre but one does not move school or cadre.

  4. i am a super empath. You made me feel like a superwoman (because i can take abuse. and use narc straits for “good”” but at the same time thats exactly the thing that brings you to us and we lose.

    LOVED the “dim traits” “allowed to shine”

    You made me Supernova) seem like your worst nightmare but favorite toy.

    backhanded comppliements.

    IM both scared and ingried.

    exactly what YOU need

  5. Can a super empath oscillate between narc and empathic traits in everyday life, not just during a supernova? For example, manipulating his/her image to others as more favorable than accurate.

      1. If I paid for a consultation, would you be up for a discussion pertaining to my query? As a psychologist, I’m intrigued.

        1. Certainly, Barbara. I try to answer all queries here but as you will appreciate some involve expansive questions which are better suited to consultation as are any questions which appertain to the personal circumstances of an individual where I need a picture of what has been happening.

  6. If a normal (in the middle of the narc/empath spectrum) decides to turn the tables on their narcissist and eventually breaks free, would that also be a supernova? I don’t know what I am yet, but am leaning toward just being normal. I can be caring, but usually my empathy is cognitive only (unless it’s for my dog) and I also have a selfish streak and I like doing what I want to do, not what I’m told to. I’m not a narc, I don’t get enjoyment out of manipulating anyone. When I catch myself behaving like a bitch, I feel bad about it. So I’m not sure what that makes me, but I do frequently have “enough” of my hub’s rage episodes or attempts to manipulate me at times, and turn it back around on him. I don’t know if that makes me a normal, or if maybe my empathic traits have been dulled and numbed by being married to someone with rage issues. I used to want to be a therapist, but a lot of the time I feel like my emotions are dead, until something stirs them up.

  7. She didn’t get under my skin I was amused as well but I guess it didn’t come across that way Im Grossly overtired because my mom went into a nursing home and I’ve been working like a dog to clean and empty out an apartment packed to the brim with thirty years of junk when I’m exhausted I tend to just let it all hang out like I did with her but in reality I was actually amused by her reply not offended

    1. This thread is very confusing i can’t get into the insquabbles – but sure some of these people would send love letters to Ted Bundy and staunchly defend HG for all the wrong reasons. It’s likely because of the way gender norms affect us – “men are powerful, women are attracted to power” and the creepy versions of that, etc.

      But i am team Ugotit.

    2. Ugotit

      I understood that, after the fog lifted. You just showed it differently.

      I am sorry to hear about your mother, and understand the burnden of cleaning house.
      If you don’t mind me asking where you close to your mother?

      1. Twilight ,

        I was referring to Catherine’s superior attitude – to clear up confusion.

        Not Ugotit – I love her attitude!

        And, in case it wasn’t clear, I was referring to you with this statement:

        “When I read your (Twilight’s) blog comments it becomes clear that you speak from a place of strength, self-reflection…and something else – and if questioned you could easily support your view but don’t feel the need to since your self-knowledge is sufficient – therefore you speak from a place of self-confidence.”

        I’m just saying that I respect people when they are themselves and it is usually clear when someone makes a comment from a place of knowing both their own strengths and weaknesses. They don’t need to put other people down. (I don’t mean you; I’ve never witnessed that in your comments – yours are thoughtful, gracious and constructive.

        *Exiting (hopefully) without having stepped (inadvertently) on anyone’s toes*

        (Sorry. I’m Canadian.)

      2. I don’t mind you asking its just a very difficult question to answer because I’ve had numerous mothers throughout my lifetime even though they were the same person we were not close in the typical healthy way you would say people are close my mother has some kind of mental.illness that was severe enough for her to spend almost four years in a state mental institution . Prior to getting married and having kids but I to this day I don’t know what her actual diagnosis was she currently has Alzheimer’s dementia birth to age five don’t remember too much other that my father was an alcoholic but not an abusive one kept to himself quietyl like a piece of furniture ages 5 she left him and from age 5 to 10 my mother was doing quite well and I consider this part of my childhood quite nice had tons of friends and my mother was functioning close to normal other than having a clear preference for my sister , after age ten she became sick again and this demonstrated in too many ways to get into , but I did wind up not only being the scapegoat child but at the same time I was always the parentified child from as young as six , during adulthood there have been periods of closeness and an almost normal relationship and other times when I had to maintain my distance not out of cruelty but because she was so sick it wasn’t safe for my own health to be around her she was viating my boundaries and decent standards of acceptable behaviour

  8. Twilight I sense disappointment for lack of pointing to specifics please do read my reply elsewhere. Ugotit nice to meet you too, don’t be ridiculous and interesting to know your carefully thought-out profiting methods using others. Such matters are beneath me and incredibly insulting. All was a tease sub-parr instead of sub-par and realm in subtle reference to royalty and names. Play on words joke was ineffective please disregard.

    1. Catherine

      If you sense disappointment it maybe due to an expectation and not what I feel.

      You amused me by your response, yet you were vaguely insulting towards both Ugotit and myself. And now trying to pass it off as a reference to royalty and a joke.

      I “caught” more then you realize.

  9. It is a game of memory. Unintentionally pairing small unobvious details in one photograph associated with a story to another. For now I shall enjoy the view of the attractive Mr. Tudor alone. See if you can find his image.

  10. I watched this again HG as it help me realized what happened to me of the abuse and getting C-ptsd turned around and anger helped me heal and fight back. I was the one who figured out who and what he was. So there you go,
    The Empathic Supernova
    Knowing the Narcissist
    Published on Jan 9, 2017

    1. The audio version is intense. There were tears falling the first time..always felt something was wrong with me. I was just defending myself. Sweet. I’ve listened to this so many times that I can recite it. Empowering to say the least.

      I would describe these events for me as engaged indifference. Once I know that my emotions are betraying me and causing me harm they turn off and logic starts. This disturbs the narcissist and I’m subjected to repeated and varying attempts to provoke some emotion. This makes me feel superior and fuels my indifference. I giggle inside bc they are lashing out like a child. Even the LGN…who would whine at me when I insisted on texting instead of arguing in person. It was so funny. They become the codependent.

  11. My mind pictures Mr. Tudor as a young Richard Burton. However, this perception is just based on his voice and my fertile imagination. I try not to forget that Narcs are masters of illusion. Mr. Tudor could be 5’3, balding, hunchbacked, and living in his auntie’s basement, for all we know. This site, after all, is the universe of a Greater N. Sometimes I wonder if we are all just a gaggle of lab rats in one giant experiment.

    1. HG is at least 15 years older than me and has good taste in wine. There’s nothing wrong with his culinary taste, but i am curious what he eats when he goes trashy. Like, does he drop in at MacD’s on the road? Or does he drink green smoothies with chia seeds?

        1. I couldn’t agree more with that statement.

          Chicken nuggets I am trying to figure out where the chicken part of the nugget is….
          My ex would show me videos of how different food was made… was disgusting how man would want to feed another what looked like foam to me.
          IMO just another way of killing people off without it looking like it. And keeping the pharmaceutical drug lords in business.

          1. You could liken McDonalds food to Narc “love”.

            It can become addictive for some.
            Can lead to high blood pressure and heart issues.
            You can be more susceptible to it when coupled with other poor choices such as drinking.
            Some note a feeling of general malaise after experiencing it, but it is quickly dispelled as owing to something else and they return to it.
            Lacks substance.
            Fills a need temporarily but ultimately leaves you empty and unfulfilled.
            But most notably:

            It involves a rather large clown.

          2. Haha, I loved the last line about the clown!

            And I agree totally that fast food is too fast to be true and good.

            It could also be likened to quick affairs, by my metaphor index.

          3. Gawd NA, do you have to ruin McDonald’s for me too?! I’ve had my weekly fix since 3 years old…lol

      1. I drink green smoothies with chia seeds 😂
        Fast food is poison to the body over time. Riddled with chemicals, dyes and sugar.
        I do have to admit to missing mcds fries i loved them but its been years.
        Rotten ronnies is no longer on my menu 😋

        1. Narc Angel

          Lol so do I, I have them on oatmeal with honey and raw almonds to.

          I work in the food industry now….a few of my employees think I am off my rocker due to bringing my own food to work. And my boss will help herself and take half of what I have bring in….she is a midranger. Her and I are not seeing eye to eye at the moment.

          In reality thou I swear they add something to the food served in these places to cause addictions to it. I am looking into moving from this company….hypocrisy angers me quicker then anything, besides I am tired of dealing with many that are of HGs kind. One on one I can deal with 6-7 on one it becomes exhausting after awhile.

          1. Twilight,

            I may know what you mean. I refuse to eat with my colleagues who make dinners in turns, bring it to the office and heat in microwave.

            It took me a while to explain to them that this food is not food anymore, and it’s a waste of energy to eat it.

            They still don’t get it anyway.

          2. SN

            One can cook in a microwave? JK I do not own a microwave. Don’t plan on changing that in the future either.

            I have worked in to many restaurants from full service to fast food to really and have seen many things that would turn a persons stomach if they only knew,

            I worked under a chef for a while….you wanted to get under his skin tell him you were about to cook one of his meals in a microwave. Funniest thing I had seen.

            Sorry when it comes to lessors and midrangers I have done things to cause them to throw an almighty temper tantrum for my amusement.

          3. Twilight,

            My colleagues just heat the food in the microwave, they cook it (usually very healthy) at home.

            As to what you can do in a mircowave. I once went to see a room to rent and the landlord told me, “There is no kitchen here, but this shouldn’t be a problem for students. They don’t cook and you can make scrambled eggs in a microwave, no problem!”

            I haven’t tried it till this day…

          4. SN

            Ewww that just doesn’t sound good.

            I was raised no left overs and if there was into the bin they went.
            That is how I cook to this day. IMO leftover taste differently, I did heat some up once just to try it, my food didn’t taste right.

          5. I get what you mean, Twilight! I was also raised this way but my teachers on this generally have better appetite than me, so I always share my leftovers with a dog – more ecological than the bin!

          6. I hardly ever use a microwave but I have to laugh. We worry about a microwave heating our food but allow the toxic stew that is the narcissist in our beds? I think our sense of danger may be misplaced lol.

          7. NarcAngel
            What is all this dissing of microwaves? How can you almost never use one? You all must not live in cultures where throwing any food away is a sin. I could live without a microwave, but I sure wouldn’t want to have to heat all my leftovers on the stove top or oven. For those of us who detest all food prep, microwaves are wonderful because they vastly cut the time we have to be in the kitchen cooking or cleaning up!

          8. Whose beds did you actually have in mind, NA? Mine has only me, as far as I can see;)

            Also, I have ways to re-liven microwave food, and they work on narcissists too, so if you feel like you are next to a walking talking zombie, then call me up, maybe I’ll have some tips;))

          9. Twilight, I have one more thing ad your last paragraph in the comment.

            I’ve observed on one MRN that he would always behave strange in the presence of GEs – he’d go into his most childish and flamboyant behaviors. Or a rage at some point of the meetings.

            So I’m really glad I found HG’s site and was able to figure out what influenced the MRN. Otherwise I’d think reality played tricks on me more than I’d like to admit!

          10. Ha ha SN

            I don’t like to be told what to do. Why I will pull their strings. I had I believe a midranger boss that told me I was going to buy him a birthday present or I wasn’t going to get one for my birthday. I was just like “and your point is?” The day comes and I will never forget he turns beet red, clinching his fists jumping up and down saying I have no idea because at that point I lost all composure and laughed.
            Sadly he got me back and I damn near killed myself, I had to use a liquid to clean some appliances… was chloroform I believed. It made me sick, dizzy, I fell out of my chair, then over the dental chair, then into the wall and out of the room. He then pretended to be so concern and asked if I wanted him to take me to the hospital.
            Didn’t stop me from telling him no to things and I have never used another liquid I am not familiar with.

  12. OMG What a HG Tudor Narc. Fuel Fest. haaa sometimes I think these these things of hearing your voice of you youtube videos. BUT there are other times, Your ere voice makes my stomach sick of the subject you talk about. HG Tudoer, you and Sam Vaknin are the only two Narcissist who do this I believe. Have you had a meet up 🙂 or you are in competition? Lots of fuel for you on this subject. I ended up being the worst Fuel Supply for my Narc. as He had to pay a lot of money to Lawyers and to cheating sites to take down His names and photos with many women outing him on Cheating sites. He at one point the first time this happened, seem a mess. He was on death door, BUT of course he bounced back up and started to look for Appliance again and again. Narc. will not change until they die or they are bed sick. If they have a computer and can type. They will get supply. Then there is the martyr of giving them supply, as I can’t live with out you, I will be with you no matter what. ugggg My ex Narc. GF she is worse then he is. She learned from him. She will do anything to keep her fake storybook life with him. He does NOT leave her because she gave him the story book life to look like a great guy. BUT he is a Covert Narcissist. Being a Narcissist and having Narcissist traits. The two I have for myself figured out. The true Narcissist wakes up every morning and Thinks WHO’S Life am I going to fuck with to get my supply of Human Emotions Drug. Where a persons with traits, Does not wake up in the morning thinking that, they just have the traits that pop up and have emotional issues of anger depression toxic personality of them not dealing with their life shit. They choose this. AS we all have choices. Maybe NOT the choices we want, BUT what is that saying hmmm. It is not how you play the game,it is how you play the cards you are dealt. I became my ex Narc. worst nightmare, as I gave him the best supply and then I stabbed him in the heart, he says “I protect my heart, you stabbed me in the back”:. I said well you are still bleeding. hahahaha Sometimes in life You are part of the pay back Karma of a terrible persons down fall. AS Karma and God need helpers to do their work, if you believe what goes around comes around. I had No clue Why me after 15 years I figured this shit out. He was with very smart women. What I learned is to know they enemy you have to think like them and get close to them. Kind of like what the French President is doing with Trump 🙂 My therapist says I would be a great detective. But like I said, my empathy is a strength not a weakness, I did suffer, but that suffering made me stronger and wiser. I some how can deal with the shits of life thrown at me, It is suffering but we all suffer and then there are times of happiness and peace. Spiritual Warriors we are…

  13. Windstorm,
    I feel a bit like an alien here but the wakes we have in Poland are one of the most entertaining parties one could imagine.
    Nobody plans it that way, but more often than not, it turns out that way anyway, and is of course done in joking honor to the late person.
    I can’t really invite anybody, but if you get a chance to go to a wake in Poland, then you may try it, I guess.

    Sorry for my cryptic humor, again.

    1. But imagine this: it could get even more hardcore! I hear the tribes of gipsies, which made their way here a long time ago take a bottle of rum to the cemetry to cheers with the grave inhabitants (during or after Halloween)

      And you know, it’s not alcoholism if you drink before noon. Then you are a pirate!

  14. The self-pity that passes off for ‘sadness’ in the narc, doesn’t interest me. They lack passion and therefore cannot be hurt so much as positioned into a state where they must defend their inferiority-superiority complex, which, they always are anyway. No change here just more of the same.

    I think i contributed to Matrinarc’s going crazy from being confronted with the reality of her deeds, and i castrated Dad’s ego. He once looked at me with fear and asked me why i was so slender, as he struggles with his weight due to a drinking problem. I mean, he thought he had total power over me as a child, but i grew into a woman who is far out of his league. That – in combo with what i know about them both, and how i rejected him at the time when he could control everyone else, just makes him terrified of me. I couldn’t care less, they wasted my energy.

    Time does not treat them well, despite their hermetically sealed ego-boxes. Trust me on this, no matter what designs they think they have.

    I am sad i have to give Narcy what he deserves, which is absolutely nothing. He wanted so badly to show me that he survived his crisis (change is always scary) is doing well and that he still has power over me. I led him right into that trap and now i just walk away in silencio.

    Would i rather have had loving parents? Yes. Would i rather just enjoy my self with narcy? Of course.

    That’s when you get a glimpse into the poverty of their world. They can’t even fight their own defences, so don’t even try to fight for them. They’re a horror show about how meaningless a life can be, that you’re forced to witness with pity and disgust. Once the roze tinted glasses come off that is.

    1. *I should say that this is also me reflecting back my parent’s perspective – they were very preoccupied with me and my sister’s bodies growing up and over-sexualised children in general, in this very perverse conservative way: the bodies of daughters belong to the authoritarian patriarchy. Basically, legitimising rape.

      It wouldn’t normally make sense for a daughter to sexually reject her father, but that is how he experiences us having bodily autonomy – and it exposes his shame. It’s creepy, being creepy and healthy self-esteem are opposites.

      My point is, you don’t need to fight a self-destructive person, you just need to have strong boundaries (when you can) and then they will fail.

    2. Very wise words, iroll. You sound like a grown person who has a fair outlook on the complexity of people’s (em-n) interactions and relationship.

      I am really impressed with your comment, I would say it comes from a place of authentic love. Thank you for this!

  15. Oh and BTW earlier I mentioned Judy Garland. I hope no one here takes her for granted. I argue that she has the greatest singing voice in human history, (There are some other Greats of course.) But what a pathos amid those vocals!

    Here’s a clip that demonstrates. The studio went with Judy over Deena and thankfully, yes. Judy Garland is a Goddess. She is only 13 here!:

  16. HG, was it a supernova mode?:

    – during the golden period I was really in love, fuelling him with adoration, because he was good to me. And I am good to the ones who are good to me, obvious.
    – but also I like my independence and when he tried to control me or force me to do something (mainly for him) “you should do this or that” I used to refuse – I like to feel as an equal in relationship.
    – my independence and not wanting to be controlled and used by him forced him to start the devaluation. I realized he wants to take, not to give. He was devaluing me by criticizing, giving me silent treatments, causing fights, salad talk, gaslightning, sulking (he is a MR). At that time I was fighting back, giving him a lot of fuel, I knew there was something wrong but I didn’t know he was a narcissist and I was trying to fix the relationship – make him understand that he is wrong. Tons of fuel.

    – suddenly I realized my fighting back fuels him. I realized he is the one who causes all problems. That he traps me into these fights. So I stopped reacting in expressive ways. I became cold in response to his manipulations. He was causing a fight, I was like “Nevermind, I don’t have time to argue”. He was sulky, telling me he is unhappy, I was like “well, so what are you doing with me? We don’t have to date”, he gave me an absent silent treatment (3 weeks) – I didn’t text, call or react in any way. When he came back he told me I should contact him during these 3 weeks – that he was waiting for it (lol). I told him “you kidding me? Why should I? You stopped talking to me, it was your responsibility to contact me again”.
    – he was planning a trip, but the day before gave me a silent treatment because I criticized him, so when he finally contacted me I told him I refuse to go because of the way he treats me (silent treatment). And then he discarded me, it was too much for him, my refusal to go on a trip he planned was a huge blow to his ego.

    After some time when he was hoovering me, he told me I was iritating and frustrating him being so uncooperative and he felt irrelevant in this relationship.

    So is this situation an example of supernova mode?


  17. HG,

    If a normal (in the middle of the narc/empath spectrum) decides to turn the tables on their narcissist and eventually breaks free, would that also be a supernova? I don’t know what I am yet, but am leaning toward just being normal. I can be caring, but usually my empathy is cognitive only (unless it’s for my dog) and I also have a selfish streak and I like doing what I want to do, not what I’m told to. I’m not a narc, I don’t get enjoyment out of manipulating anyone. When I catch myself behaving like a bitch, I feel bad about it. So I’m not sure what that makes me, but I do frequently have “enough” of my hub’s rage episodes or attempts to manipulate me at times, and turn it back around on him. I don’t know if that makes me a normal, or if maybe my empathic traits have been dulled and numbed by being married to someone with rage issues. I used to want to be a therapist, but a lot of the time I feel like my emotions are dead, until something stirs them up.

  18. I once told him some of the things I did when I was with my husband, I believe now I understand that slight smile and the feeling of what I would call excitement.
    He pushed me on purpose.

    Sorry I am slightly amused, at this thought.

  19. A narc with a blog giving advice on narcissism. Bravo, evil genius, bravo. You receive an endless supply of fuel and we mere mortals get tantalizing glimpses into how a narc mind operates. IF you can be trusted.
    I’m a super empath who recently went supernova. All that suppressed rage from enduring decades of gaslighting, silent treatments, hoovering, countless discards (don’t people realize the narc discards in some way at least once a day?!) suddenly flooded my body and brain after the last mindfuckery. I left and then used all the narc tricks IT taught me to mercilessly pick at IT’s internal childhood wound (his daddy didn’t love him enough). Gaslighting, hoovering, silent treatments and discards work both ways, my friends. It felt delicious. But like all supernovas, my fire burnt out (for now) and I’m floating in a calm ocean. The only true way to get rid of a narc is no contact. THAT is the ultimate closure and revenge.

  20. One thing about being an Empathy that Narcissist do not have, WE connect to the spirits of people. It is a gift or a burden. I have learned for it to be a strength. After all the evil sickness that came in my life of the Narcissist and his girlfriend. I have learned to have boundaries when someone is acting out in a none human way of all about them and their views needs playing the victim. They do NOT want help or to change. They just want to vent. Then their are those who we are likes sponges absorbing their pains. WE got tricked with the Narcissist as they had us absorbing their evilness disguised as hurt pain and lack of trust and love. WE were going to show them we were different to win them over. NOPE we were conned doped. They deserve suffering of all the suffering they gave us. They use us to entertain them. Be their drug of choice and use us as appliances of supply…They are missing a humanity switch. What saved me, finally knowing what a Narcissist was and mine was one. Anger and HOW dare he use me and 100 of women. Why should I just suffer, there needs to be some type of justice. WE need to do something and then heal and move on. NO Contact is hard, but why do you still want them?? or thing the new one is his love. NOOOOO NONE of us are special. It is just a play that he is in, and we are different actors he is doing the play with…NO ONE IS SPECIAL, but we are special and so lucky we are healing…Peace and Blessings Spiritual Warriour

    1. Sorry, Mary!

      (I *have* to laugh a lot – I *have* to tease HG a bit – I *have* to be technically incumbent – all part of the goofy woman I am).:-)

      Oh, and sometimes I have to pee too. (My mother would so disapprove of that last sentence — hey, kinda a rush.;-))

      1. I agree when it comes to teasing HG. Sorry, HG, we love you but that balloon needs to be playfully popped every so often.

        Tee hee.

        Next time he spouts about his brilliance we all reply with, ‘Wubba…Wubba…Wubba….’

        Or some other sound of silliness.

        It’s not that we disagree but we need to think of the aliens that visit us in time. What will we think of us humans?

        By god, we need to prepare!!!! They ARE coming, you know? They have been spotted in New Mexico.

        1. Oh gawd, lol, Bibi…I feel like I’m being set up today to say fairly inappropriate/funny stuff I really ought not to say.

          So… yeah… I’m just going to control myself.

          But thank you SO MUCH! I have to go to an excruciatingly boring, quiet, proper function tonight, and I just hope I don’t start laughing uncontrollably… no beverages for me.

  21. HG, if a normal (in the middle of the narc/empath spectrum) decides to turn the tables on their narcissist and eventually breaks free, would that also be a supernova? I don’t know what I am yet, but am leaning toward just being normal. I can be caring, but usually my empathy is cognitive only (unless it’s for my dog) and I also have a selfish streak and I like doing what I want to do, not what I’m told to. I’m not a narc, I don’t get enjoyment out of manipulating anyone. When I catch myself behaving like a bitch, I feel bad about it. So I’m not sure what that makes me, but I do frequently have “enough” of my hub’s rage episodes or attempts to manipulate me at times, and turn it back around on him. I don’t know if that makes me a normal, or if maybe my empathic traits have been dulled and numbed by being married to someone with rage issues. I used to want to be a therapist, but a lot of the time I feel like my emotions are dead, until something stirs them up.

  22. Here is a real example of a SuperNova!
    The Ex GN was devaluing everything I did going out all the while bedding two other women while lying to me straight face. He saw I was slowly moving my things out. He put up Camera’s to watch me and kept calling me a thief and I could not be trusted.
    He always bragged about being a Mercenary
    and once sitting in the same spot for 5 days waiting for his prey to come along.
    I put two baby Monitors in his bolthole..and outside sat for 5 days listening and seeing who came along…. When a favor/flying Monkey came
    and the GN realized I did what he claimed…Fury!
    That was the last Contact I had with him.

  23. I am nearing critical mass on the Supernova ignition….the past three weeks has been a crazy cycle of “God is good/ She’s a bitch/Pity me/Goodbye cruel world” with our mutual friends, followed by a big-fat-email hoover last night, complete with pictures of me from my childhood that I have never seen – creepy much?? He must have gotten the pictures from a mutual friend.
    Should I:
    a) Remain steadfast in my no contact and just let the whole thing roll off my back?
    b) Try to ferret out the (hopefully unwitting) lieutenant and ask her not to enable his narcissism?
    or c) SUPERNOVA!!!!
    Or a combination of any of the above…. I need a drink and it’s only 10:30 a.m. where I am….

    1. and before I get into trouble for not being stanch enough in my no contact…. he sent his email from a brand new email address (that makes 18….) to my work email address which I’ve begged the powers that be to change…. to no avail…
      Narcissists are a tireless bunch…. can my fuel possibly be that good, HG, or is it just that he is aging and can’t find other fuel as readily so he has to keep circling back to try and tap sources that were previously reliable…?

      1. Previous sources belong to us, therefore it is often (I accept not always) easier to return to those known appliances than find new ones. The reduction in level of a narcissist who is aged is a material consideration.

    2. Go with (a) ascertain (b) but do not tell them that you know what they are, just avoid providing information to the person.
      Have a drink – it is 5pm in Paris now.

      1. Maybe I should just move to Paris….. Thank you, HG. I’ll try to come in off the ledge now. *sips coffee that isn’t really coffee*

      2. HG, why do you advice against telling them you know what they? My experience was after figuring him out and ‘what he is’ . . . when I confronted him, he admitted it and told me he was professionally diagnosed at age 19. Actually, having him disclose the truth helped me . . . answered a lot of unanswered questions, BUT it did make me very angry, too . . . knowing he played me for a fool . . . knowing he knew exactly what he was doing to me mentally and physically–basically tortured me at times.

        Do u suggest nondisclosure due to the possibility of a supernova occurring?

        1. I advocate non-disclosure because :-

          1. Once you know, you should go.
          2. Disclosure will not get you anywhere. In your experience, he admitted the diagnosis but it is not going to mean he will alter in any way, and (whilst this may not have happened in your case) the fact of continuing to engage, disclose and see what the response is means you are continuing to engage with someone who is not going to act in your best interests, you are feeding your emotional infection and risk continued ensnarement.
          3. Most disclosure is rejected and there may well be repercussions for you.

    3. Block his email! NO CONTACT! He wants your reactions. Do not give him them and let him staaaarvvve!

      1. Thank you, Julie. Email is blocked now so no more will get through from that address…. I shall cancel my plan to confront him on a Facebook Live session…. While the thought of doing that really intrigues me and I know it would be really entertaining, I also know it would just blow up in my face somehow.

        1. Do not dance with the devil darlin’… they win every damn time. But I know what you are saying about the satisfaction. I still would love to revenge but it would serve no purpose not to mention its been years. I get enough satisfaction knowing hes just a miserable boob.

      2. Disappear without a word and without a trace . . . narc tecnique out of their own playbook

  24. HG, how long can an Empath remain in a supernova state?
    Is it temporary or does it remain while in the narcissistic relationship.
    Like a point of no return from the abuse.
    Until they escape and can redevelop higher empathic traits.

    In regards to narcissistic traits.
    I understand the Super Empath would be next in line
    under a narcissist
    for higher narcissistic traits and lower empathic traits.
    Where the narcissist has zero empathic traits.

    Would not a co dependent then exhibit higher narcissistic traits
    Then say a standard Empath?
    But less then a Super Empath.
    I know you state otherwise.
    Where the standard Empath has high empathic traits
    and lower narcissistic traits?

    I still find confusion in this area,
    when reading comments
    To determine, who based on narcissistic traits is a narcissist,
    Super Empath and co dependent.
    In relation to engaging.
    Because if basing it on perceived empathy.
    Then that adds to the confusion.
    As a narcissist can feign empathic traits.

    Is it best when In doubt to err on the side of caution
    And to reply in the least possible emotional sense?

    1. 1. It is temporary.
      2. It is not just a case of higher narcissistic traits and lower empathic ones, but number and strength and how they operate in relation to one another. I see a co-dependent as having few narcissistic traits, but they may have one or two that are quite strong, but generally they are outweighed by their numerous empathic traits.
      3. Yes, err on the side of caution. You may struggle to determine on a one-off basis because, as you identify there is fake (cognitive) empathy, but if you aggregate the experiences you will see the cracks in those who use fake empathy.

      1. Hg, reading this last comment made me wonder… narcs tend to be great with sarcasm. Could one reason for this be that they use sarcasm to help conceal that their empathy is fake? I’m recalling multiple instances of me calling out my mother for not really caring about something and her blowing her comment off as sarcasm or a joke. My in laws n exhusband also crack dark humor jokes in solemn situations like hospitals and funerals. This inappropriate humor helps mask that they really don’t care.

        1. Your “calling out” will have been Challenge Fuel, her response in order to assert superiority was to deflect using sarcasm.

          1. HG
            Well that happened often also, but I’m referring to instances when the sarcasm came first and wasn’t even directed at me. When it’s a situation where an empathic person would show empathy (like a horrible accident) and the narcs instead respond with sarcasm or dark humor. Almost like they’re covering up their lack of empathy with inappropriate humor. People hear them and think they just have an irrepressible wit instead of realizing that they truly feal nothing for the victim. Maybe that’s just a quirk with my family narcs.

      2. Thank you so much HG.
        Your insight is invaluable to me,

        BPD individuals can be confused for NPD as well.
        Especially regarding love bombing and black and white thinking.
        But, they do have empathy.

        I can misinterpret those cracks,
        why I often avoid such types and thus avoid conflict.
        Choosing not to engage.

      3. Windstorm,
        Your comment about sarcasm had me curious. I am often VERY sarcastic. In fact I am often told that my sarcasm is a defense mechanism. If I am overly emotional about something whether it be nervous, anxious, upset, whatever, my response to something will often be sarcastic. A classic example was when I was in the waiting room (I was the only one there) at my therapist’s office and she walked out to call me in and said, “Gabrielle?” And I replied, “Well…yeah. I do not see anyone else sitting here, do you?” She laughed at my joke and I immediately apologized for my “rudeness” to which she then told me not to worry about it. It was my first appointment and I was nervous about it. But yeah, this happens frequently and it something I am trying to be mindful of and work on but it is so automatic. Kind of automatic like the way my MRN will contradict himself to avoid blame.

        I hope this does not mean I am narc or some shit.

        Another thing I tend to do is sputter out some random TV show or movie quote relating to the situation. Once in awhile I will be in the vicinity of someone who “gets” the humor and it is met with a smile or giggle. Other times I will get raised eyebrows and a look that says “WTF is wrong with you?”

        I am (often) very sarcastic with my MRN. He always tells me he enjoys my sense of humor but since I do not know what parts of him are real and what parts are fake I wonder if he even means that compliment.

        1. Shelf fuel
          I wouldn’t worry. You are not a narc. Normal people use sarcasm a lot also. I’m not remembering right now, was one of your parents a narc? Children of narcs grow up learning to use sarcasm. If someone was in a horrible car crash and in the hospital or dead, would you say sarcastic things about them to others? Do you make jokes about the deceased while at funerals? That’s the sort of things my narcs do.

          1. Windstorm, I happen to make jokes at the deceased during the funeral, but that is simply my response to all the wonderful absurdieties the preachers make up in their sermons about the person. So when I know somebody would spit at the thought of a church (as is the common custom in a country overriden with the amount of those), and I suddenly find out what an angel and faithful community member they were – well… It seems too funny for me to pass up the occasion. Also, this is not to hurt them (as if they could be hurt anymore) – I share the joke with the person in question, like “Do you hear that? Ironic.”

            Is that narcissistic use of sarcasm?

          2. SN
            Goodness knows I’ve heard my share of funeral absurdities! I once asked the preacher after a funeral if he’d actually even known the deceased because he sure described a different woman than I knew. And I would think for sarcasm to be narcissistic, it would need to wound at least one person that hears it.

            When my narcs tell jokes and say sarcasm at funerals, hospitals, etc it is to cover up their lack of empathy and make themselves feel better because they are uncomfortable around the sick or grieving. They don’t try for fake empathy or pretend to care, they just treat the whole thing like a joke. But then they tend to be very open about their narcissism. They never pretend to care.

            The best I can get out of my exhusband at a funeral is to try to keep him from cracking jokes right in front of the widows, children and parents who are actually grieving. He doesn’t care at all when someone dies (except for himself if they were a fuel source) and he has no understanding of others grief or sympathy. A part of him doubts that anyone’s grief or sympathy is even real, that they’re just pretending because that’s what society expects. So a funeral to him is just a type of circus.

          3. Windstorm,
            Well, to be honest, my own feelings aren’t that far removed from those of your husband about the whole thing.

            I once said something, which brought me girl narc askewed glance (which I translate, “It’s good she said it, instead of me, now I can be the good and softy one”).

            This happened in a workplace. A girl came to announce another girls’ sister funeral, and said she will be collecting money for a wreath.
            N girl: “Oh, yesz absolutely!”
            Me: “…”
            Me when she left, “While the whole event may be tragic and all, I’d like to know how it all refers to us? I’d understand if this was for the colleague, but hey my cousin is getting married next month, maybe somebody wants to throw in some funds for the gift!”
            N glance.

            Explanation: We both knew this was a fake display of compassion.

            So I’m sorry if this offends anybody, but death is a part of life cycle, so I joke away about it (same as I could joke about birth) – joke is the ultimate form of expression for me, and I have it based off of one psychotherapist teachings.

            Also, in my own too honest opinion and words which don’t beat around the bush, by one famous Mr. Martin, “What is dead may never die.” And that’s a good I think!

          4. Windstorm,
            I have made jokes at a funeral before. Not in an overtly offensive way though. I know that probably makes no sense. My mother has been severely mentally ill my entire life and has several narc traits but I do not think she is a narc, I have just attributed those traits to her mental illness.

          5. SF
            There’s nothing wrong with making jokes at funerals discretely. Most people probably do that. I doubt you would stand around near the casket and tell loud jokes with friends when a widow/parent/child was crying nearby. Different cultures do funerals differently. Here you’re expected to keep it down near the casket and in the presence of people who are visibly crying or shook up.

            I cracked jokes all thru my mothers wake, but I tried to stay out of the room with the casket so as not to be disrespectful of people in there who might be actually grieving. Still, a wake is not as solemn as the actual funeral. My male family who were pall bearers loudly cracked jokes with one another during the actual funeral. I saw a lot of shocked faces. But the people who mentioned it to me put it down to my family’s boisterousness – not a lack of empathy.

          6. Windstorm,
            Okay, very well. Point understood. I am not a Narc! LOL.
            But I definitely overuse sarcasm in a twisted way. I guess this can be reaffirmed in the constant changing of my screen name. All out of Fuel, Fuel Cookie, Challenge Fuel and now Shelf Fuel (Fuel on the Shelf). LOL like “elf on the shelf.

            Like the meme says “whatever does not kill you just gives you a whole lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms”.

          7. Fuel
            Oh, that totally cracked me up!!!! I’ve never seen that meme! I can’t stand Nieche and it turns my stomach ever time someone says that quote of his. Lots of things that dont kill us break us down and cripple us for the rest of our lives! I’m sure going to remember this new (more accurate) version!! Thanks! ❤️

    2. Annalise

      Thanks for this question. As a diagnosed Codependent, I wonder these things myself because I have qualities of the Super Empath as well in that I can be very narcissistic at times. I have asked so many times if I’m the narcissist ? The shrink said if you are here and you are asking likely not lol. I lwould purposely do things to set him off, but I would do it in a very passive aggressive manner. He would call me on it and say you do this on purpose don’t you? and I would act like who me? How could you say such a thing? Then I would immediately shift into victim/ martyr mode. Codependents definitely have narcisstic traits especially with regard to control, shrinks do t use the term Super Empath to my knowledge so I wonder if I fall in this category? What I was told some 8 years ago is that I had a moderate case of Codependency. Aka looking outside the self for validation.

      HG, I have a question. Would it be possible to be somewhere in between Super Empath and Codependent?

      1. No, you may have some traits of either school but you would belong to one school predominantly.

      2. Codependent it is then! Lol. I have no shame in my Codependency which is weird because it shame based lol. People here get so touchy about that word and you know. darn good and well some of the folks here are in fact codependent. They are just undiagnosed and not self aware. I guess because they see it as weakness and i don’t. I see ad control. Codependents are controllers.

        I think people like the Super Empath cause that sounds way cooler and like a strong super hero. I guess it all has to do with that word “perspective”

      3. Lori

        Your honesty and self awareness is appreciated.
        It is great you ask questions of yourself
        Want to know yourself.
        Want to learn and heal.

        I am not co dependent , nor a Super Empath.
        I think just empathic, maybe magnet Type.
        My aunt, is co dependent and
        has had numerous narcissistic relationships.
        She is still in one,
        And would be labelled according to HG’s work.
        As a DE DLS IPSS, the over shelved variety.
        Why the concept of shelving interests me
        She is still in a narcissist relationship.

        Many of the questions I ask are relating to her.
        She too, realizes she is co dependent and why.
        But, cannot/ will not escape that relationship.
        I use HG work to help show her the way.
        Maybe one day.

        Your reply made me think.
        I will keep look for your other replies.
        I have read some and they make sense to me.

        Lori, do you think overall co dependents
        are like narcissists in their lack of self awareness?
        So, in your own awareness
        you would be like the equivalent of a Greater narcissist?

        I think you are correct,
        perhaps many do not wish to see themselves as co dependent.
        Stigma wise.
        But, in order to heal
        One must accept who and how they are.
        There is no shame,
        Or there should not be.

      4. Annalise,

        That’s interesting. I think many many Codepebdents are unaware. I certainly k is I was until a 2nd run in with Narc 1 left me in emotional shambles.

        I always knew I was a little different than other That I kind of hyper focused on how people viewed me. I always liked to be the “golden girl” everyone liked and came to for help. I do know now that I felt a sort of emptiness that I would fill with people or projects and that after a period of time usually years I bore of relationships. I have often felt a need to control and have suffered bouts of anxiety off and on through out my life sometimes even having a touch of OCD like behavior. I will get interested in something and it will completely enthralll me then I lose interest.

        Haha the greater of Codepebdents yes maybe I think most don’t know until something drives them to a therapist otherwise Codependents just kind of blend in

      5. Annalise,

        To continue on these thoughts, Codependents seek to control thru giving, fixing and martyr like behavior. A narc seeks to control through taking, destroying and behaving like a dictator but they are very mich the same. One over feels and one under feels both they both seek control. The Codepebdent seeks to control the Narc by over giving and trying to make him dependent on her and provide in a way that no other will be able to meet and the Narc seeks to control by making the Codepebdent dependent thru the destruction of their self esteeem thru abuse and intermittent reinforcement. You can say the Narc wins this battle but does he really? He will continue to seek a Codependent not exclusively but they are preferred.

        Just my thoughts. I was diagnosed 8 years ago. Am I better? I think so as I am aware. Am I healed? No. They say you can heal it but I question that. I think it’s always with you. I do think you can improve though

        Your Aunt likely won’t leave that relationship. It will leave her and that will be when she has a chance to improve her Codependency in my opinion but I’m not a mental health professional so it’s pure speculation

        1. Lori
          That’s a very good analysis of codependents – at least based on my experience. My exhusband’s family is full of alcoholics and big into AA and AlAnon, so we were all taught about codependency, and saw it in many relationships.

          In my experience codependency seems harder to admit to than alcoholism. Maybe because codependents believe that they know best and are helping people and fixing problems, that they fail to realize that they themselves have an unhealthy need to control others and be in charge.

          Certainly with alcoholism, codependents enable the drinking and the very problems that make their own life a misery – yet fight against this concept when others counsel them. I’ve seen parents of grown children fall into this trap as well. You seem to understand yourself well and are therefore ahead of the game! Kudos to you!

          My exhusband might have preferred me to be a codependent (he’s both a recovering alcoholic and a narc), but I abhor control of anything except myself (and often refuse to control myself as well! 😄).

      6. Windstorm

        I had no substance abuse in my family. In fact by most people’s accounts I had a story book family. Not exactly sure where my codependency came from but its suspected from the voice of a critical parent. My parents in no way abused me ever however my Mom was always the type that worried about appearances and when you achieved something would say that’s is awesome BUT remember you have to stay at the the top. That sort of thing. I don’t think she meant to harm, but somehow internalized that then add Narc 1 on the seen at age 22 and he did a lot of damage on 5 or 6 years and I think it was the combination of both that made me a Codepebdent adult

      7. Oh and Windstorm suggest to an undiagnosed or not self aware Codepebdent that they maybe be Codepebdy and they will go off on you. I remember vividly that happening with me.

        Its my personal opinion that the ones that get so put out by the word Codependent are likely the very people that are because it’s striking a nerve. Someone who isn’t isnt really effected by it. Just my experience. Is it the case every time ? No but often

        1. Lori
          My own personal experience with alcoholism and narcs everywhere is different. I have suggested codependency to codependents who are unaware and they never get angry. They may disagree, but they never get their backs up. I am careful to only put it forward as a possibility and subject to study. In my experience, many people don’t like someone else labeling them anything that could in any way be seen as negative. Especially if it’s something they personally know they are not.

      8. I find most really don’t even understand what it is. I think they have the perception of this wimpy little person who cant escape abuse. There may be some like that but many use submissiveness and martyri like behavior to control

        At the time I was diagnosed, I had a moderate case and I would say it’s gotten less since I became aware but it’s still there obviously because i found another narc

      9. Hi Lori.
        Thank you for your replies.
        There are no reply buttons.
        For the two comments.
        So, will reply to both here.

        Do you think in some ways,
        it is easier for a co dependent to understand a narcissist.
        More then another type of Empath?
        From what you described, there seems to be similarities.
        Manipulation, control, easily bored, attention seeking.
        The need to be needed. Wanted,

        That was excellent comparisons you made,
        between co dependent and narcissist.
        Makes a lot of sense.
        Both are dependent on the other.
        Only the co dependent can admit it.

        You are right, I do not think she will leave him.
        The addiction and binding
        Is too strong.

  25. 1) Would an UMR react more in a similar fashion to a Greater (to Supernova event) — or would an UMR slink off, in similar fashion to his Mid brethren?
    2) How would you compare the general power/capability/intensity level of a SE going up against an UMR?

    1. 1. He will resist for a period of time and then slink.
      2. I don’t understand the question.

    2. My ex UMR would act like a Greater when I would go Supernova. But something always results Mid ranger like. He may not plead, but he may act sick to see of my empathic traits come back to the surface, and he could avoid accountability. if not, he can triangulate me when he goes running to his new supply.

  26. My lawyer is divorced from a Narc ..therefore we are 2 supernovas coming at my lesser. It’s like I’m going in for everything I’ve ever lost being with him. It’s weird. I’m being narsssitic so I can continue to be an empath. Not a victim. Just someone who got baited and switched.
    Well I’m doing the switch on him and “that’s not happy to see me” time for him right now.

      1. Hi HG I asked some questions on the supernova page about 4hrs ago.
        I’ll wait with anticipation.
        I have a knack of providing negative fuel. Lol

        1. Thank you for clarifying. I will address them when opportunity arises. See Rule 13.

  27. HG,

    1) Can the Supernova event occur suddenly with a stranger, if the SE perceives an unfairness/injustice that hits upon their areas of intensity? (In such a case, is it usually a slow-building effect, influenced by other aspects first?)
    2) If #1 is possible, would you expect the SE to feel residual anger and be ready to “do battle” again — or would you expect their anger to quickly dissipate?
    3) Can SEs fairly well predict (sense) their own Supernova coming?

    1. 1. Unlikely – that would most likely just be anger rather than a supernova.
      2. N/A
      3. Yes.

      1. HG and Caroline

        I have wondered if an SE could sense.

        I knew and kept things in check, yet there was a trigger. I recognize exactly what and when. It was like…

        No wonder you call it a supernova

        HG I am not a SE, that wasn’t the first time yet it was the first time that I used that amount of energy.
        Would this be due to the school?
        When my husband would push to far he would back off for days and be with his mistresses. I was happy he was gone.

  28. Mr.Tudor did you read my question and I got deleted. As you are our teacher, but where do you have the gift of gab and all the information that just flows from you. Does it have something to do with your work life? I am just in awe of how much you can articulate on so many subjects more then one a day. Well, If I get an enlightening answer thank you. IF Not then it is what it is…Thank you Teacher SW~

    1. I am very clever and articulate and I learn and use that to my advantage. Combine that with a natural magnetic and charisma and there’s your answer.

      1. Wow. Are you more powerful than a locomotive? Can you leap tall buildings in a single bound?

          1. Can you really HG? My narc did the same. Time stood still. It’s too bad you’re oceans away. I wish you’d kiss me and make me forget about him!!! I’m sure this sounds ridiculous AF but hey at this point I’m willing to try something extreme to forget him.

          2. I appreciate the sentiment SF, but you do not want to substitute me for him, you need to impose NC and get that Emotional Thinking under control, this is the route to freedom.

          3. You know what they say best way to get over one man is to get under another lol

          4. LOL Twilight, Mary and Ugotit.
            At least I can say I tried even though I was shot down and lectured on my emotional thinking.

            I still wish I could hire HG to wound Saint Piano though. It would be so epic.

          5. SF

            Better here then in the real world, another out there would pick you up and take you back into the house of mirrors.

            HG thou is truthful and directs in the right direction

          6. Gabby

            Ha ha I have never experienced this “time stood still” kind of kiss. So I just take others opinion on it.

          7. Gabs, you know you would be jumping from the frying pan into the fire. 😅

          8. *** Taps Tudor Towers broadcast system ***

            Jesus. Somebody get some mops and dry panties up here on The Empathic Supernova stat!!!!!!! He’s done it again.

      2. HG

        I understand people here are only teasing about you being modest and topped off etc, with your comments about yourself, but it raises an issue that has been on my mind: the tendency to use the term Narc sometimes indiscriminately. What one person thinks is narcissistic may not be the same for another. I perceive your statements of charismatic, clever, and articulate as factual and confident (as observed here) where others might find them narcissistic. I raise this because although there are a great number of narcissists, I think we have a tendency not to differentiate between those with narcissistic traits and actual natrcissists. The danger being that if we use that term too often, people stop listening and we lose ground on identifying and trying to get the message across of narcissism as an actual disorder and its resulting effects. A certain level of narcissism is healthy, and I know many people who are somewhat narcissistic but who do not engage in silent treatments, gaslighting, etc, and if introduced to many people here would be labelled as actual narcs. Once we learn about it and see it around us we have a tendency to want to identify it to others and it just makes us look like we are obsessed and people stop listening. If I mention it to someone, I will say that the person I am referring to displays characteristics of a certain type of narcissist. If they ask me what I mean I will briefly outline that I have read about the subject and encourage them to look into it (refer them to your work) or ask questions. To quell their curiosity I tell them I have studied the subject due to my now dead Stepfather (but you could use any friend or relative). Not everyone who you perceive to be rude, overly confident, or treated you in a way that you did not appreciate is a narcissist.

        I should know lol.

        1. NA… great post! I agree with that. I see narcissistic traits in some people also but it dosent mean they are full on narcissists.

        2. Narc Angel.
          Excellent points.
          I too am looking at the void between someone being a narcissist
          and being Narcissistic.
          And not improperly “labelling “ someone.

          I don’t see the characteristics you cited as being narcissistic either.
          As much as I view them as confident.
          But, it is when you have this feeling something is amiss.
          Then wonder how to temper interactions with said persons.
          Based on narcissistic cues they send out.
          It is not a strong personality, or forthrightness, or bluntness
          It more a sense of how they criticize, isolate, ignore, belittle and so forth.
          The big ones,
          like silent treatments , gaslighting,
          blame shifting are easy to determine.
          But the more subtle behaviours are where I have difficulty.

          Where not truly knowing who you are engaging with can be emotionally detrimental.
          Based in how you respond to them.
          Socially or in the workplace.
          I do not want to keep, thinking is this person a narcissist.
          But I also do not want to miss the cues if they are.
          If that makes sense.

          HG, most likely does not present as a narcissist to most people in his daily dealings.
          He does not most times,
          here in his interactions.
          He is charming, polite.
          Respectful, thoughtful, even in replies.
          Behaviours we do not gage as narcissistic.
          People may even consider him empathic and sensitive outside this blog.

          What of those who are rude, demanding, ill tempered,
          harsh, demeaning?
          It isn’t just bad manners.
          Or an off day.
          Before I found this site I didn’t even know Empaths could be remotely narcissistic.
          So, this blog has tremendous value beyond romantic relationships.
          For me ,
          it is more about individuals we interact with outside of romantic attachments.
          But, also to remain away from romantic ensnarement.

          As HG says, if we stabilize emotional thinking,
          we can think more logically.
          For me it is not black and white.
          The confusion lays in-the grey.

          I am grateful for HGs work and teachings.
          His willingness to answer questions and help eliminate confusion.
          The comments and Input from other readers, such as yourself.

          1. Analise13
            I agree that it’s very hard to identify narcs by their narcissistic behaviors since nearly everyone exhibits them sometimes. Plus the really smart narcs can be putting on a snow job that’s difficult to see thru if you don’t live with them.
            And you’re right that it’s not just romantic relationships, we all interact with narcs everyday out in society.

            Over time I’ve developed a sort of narc-dar that sets off warnings in my mind automatically. It is based on just one characteristic- lack of empathy. Any time someone shows a lack of empathy, I automatically label them suspect. They may very well not be a narc, maybe just having a thoughtless moment. But they go on my watch list. From that point on I watch them closely and tally any further instances of lack of empathy.

            The way I look at it, whether they technically are a narc or just have a lot of narc traits is unimportant. It’s the frequent lack of empathy that will make them dangerous to me as far as being hurtful or abusive.

          2. Analise

            I would say its taking note of their actions vs their words over a number of interactions, combined with gut feeling (almost never wrong), and examining empathy if its attempted/displayed for anything forced or unnatural (rings untrue). Most are not of HGs calibre so there are also things like missing common social cues (because they are only concerned about themselves), inappropriate comments that appear to indicate that they think are normal to everyone, or rushing to include themselves in your life/activities. Highly narcissistic people may say and do what they like, but do not generally seek you out and target you for their own gain and monopolize your time. Your gut is best, as no matter the label-if they make you uncomfortable, you should keep a distance. I was referring in my previous post to those who perceive and label all boyfriends, family members, and friends as narcissists because they did not act as the person expected them to. This is dangerous in that it starts to become synonymous with people who just act badly instead of those who are indeed narcissists and an actual danger to those around them. I still feel like I didnt explain what I mean well enough but I hope that made sense.

          3. Narc Angel

            Thank you for reply and advice.
            I understand what you are saying.
            Your words are always sound and reaffirming.

            Often when I think I observe it and mention it to others,
            They cannot see the behaviours.
            Then I doubt myself.
            But, you are right about actions and gut instincts.
            I never saw it with my ex until near the end of relationship.
            Even then I did not remotely think narcissism.

            I do not wish to peg someone that which they are not.
            And yes.
            Bandying a disorder around erroneously can be harmful
            To the cause.
            We can’t call them narcissist because
            We do not like what they say or do.
            If it doesn’t accord to how we are.

            I guess, I just want to remain aware and vigilant.
            I am not naive, but I can be too trusting.
            I can doubt my instincts.
            I need to trust myself more, others less.

          4. Nice comment, analise13.

            For sure, get to know yourself and trust yourself more! I used to feel compelled to run my ideas by others. But then it turned out more often than not, that I was the one to say, “Told you so” at the end. So I stopped doing that so much, and instead started observing what’s going on around me. If somebody wants to know – OK, but not necessarily from my point of view.

            I recommend it a lot – not in the delusional sense “I say it is so, so it must be” – no, checking yourself is a very important step in the self-actualization process. Rational thinking is also advized.

            As for narcissism – I have a good eye at spotting it, less so with covert, but I usually don’t need too much time for that either.

            That said, I wouldn’t go to somebody and say, “Hey! You are disordered!”
            No. The line is always there, and stress, environment etc. can propel it further.

            The spotting is for myself mostly so I know how to interact.

          5. Thank you SN.
            Compelled is the exact word.
            I should trust my instinct far more.
            I believe I am more rational, then emotional.
            But, then sometimes,
            emotional thinking can take over.

            Thank you and for your kind advice and reply,

          6. Windstorm

            Thank you for reply
            and wonderful to be able to read you again.
            Your comments are always so thoughtful and compassion filled.

            Yes, intermittent encounters
            and not living with someone makes it more challenging.
            Trying to gage certain behaviours.

            It is good to be aware of people and
            if you suspect to be more so wary.
            Not let our guard down.

            Sometimes I wonder if I can be too sensitive.
            To what is abusive behaviour and what is individual personality.
            Lack of empathy is a major signal.
            Or attempts at empathy that seems off.
            Wording seems insincere or forced.
            But, always that bad feeling I am left with.
            That something isn’t right.

      3. Hi narcangel…great post and i agree. Ive been guilty of falling into the trap of using the narc label but a true narcissist lacks empathy and is diagnosed thru the dsm with the disorder. There is a small percentage of actual narcissists. That being said there are many with high narc traits.
        I think too people get caught up in the question is my partner a narcissist?. Abuse doesnt only come from narcissists. Its more important to focus on the abuse and not is he or she a narc bc abuse is wrong regardless.

      4. I agree NA, that it is important to not label someone a narcissist simply b/c of some traits they may have.

        I now ask myself how they make me feel. With my contagion skill, I can feel their negativity and judgment. And is this a repeated thing? Do they bully? Do I come away feeling like shit? If so, we could call them platypuses but we should still avoid someone as that.

        I have narc traits. I’ve been reading up on the Enneagram test (anyone can take online if you want to know your type–I suggest taking several of the free ones just to compare).

        But I am a 4 and one of the 4’s traits is envy. Low functioning 4’s are prone to have narcissist personality disorder but high functioning are productive, creative, etc.

        I have to admit that I do suffer from envy at times, but not for material things, per se. I don’t give a shit about someone’s fancy car, but maybe just something here or there, maybe their free time–but the good thing is that I am able to talk myself out of it, and the ‘envy episode’ only lasts a couple of mins.

        Narcs can’t do that. I can get resentful if someone else is being praised for something that maybe I want to be praised for, but again, I can talk myself out of this and it passes. I don’t hate them because of it.

        Judy Garland was a 4. She had such a tremendous talent but she needed constant praise and she was under the impression that her talent would get people to love her. I have fallen into that same trap and have had to talk myself out of it. Hence why I thought the Mid Ranger would pull through. Surely he’d realize how great and special I am, right?

        One of the reasons I really enjoy this blog is being able to share thoughts as these, as there aren’t any individuals in my personal life with whom to really share these emotional vulnerabilities.

        That sounds bad, but most are not interested and with me being an Ennegram 4, one of the traits is to replay old wounds over and over and over. I most certainly do this, but not to refeel pain, but to learn and to grow.

      5. There’s a difference between narcissistic traits and the pathology of a personality disorder. Usually narcissistic traits don’t always impair close relationships. We all know the bragger but he doesn’t necessarily have 25 women texting him lol or have fury ignited at the slightest criticism.

        There’s a period after this happens to you where you start looking for it or see it in everyone. These people so mess with our heads …

        I can’t believe I missed it in this 2nd Narc I’m so mad at myself

        1. Lori.. dont kick yourself too much.. Ive missed it 4x but only 2 were what I would consider a long term “relationship” . They are prettt slick and can be damn near impossible to spot til its too late and they have inflicted damage.

      6. Hi bibi…ive not heard of that test but ill be looking it up. It sounds interesting. Envy is such a natural emotion. Very human to feel envy at times. I think when it becomes a problem is when it overshadows your life and jealousy and hatred manifest. Thats where daily gratitude is so important. Being grateful in life makes you happy.
        Ive been guilty of envy and even jealousy but i think thru the years have matured and been able to be aware when these feelings come up and to analyse them like yourself.
        I think thats where people get confused bc they look at these narc traits and conclude narcissist. I still admit to wondering if on the narc spectrum some narcs can still possess a certain degree of empathy but i think its cognitive empathy as mentioned. Its not heartfelt empathy. The narc thinks its empathy but the two are different.
        So tru tho observe how the person makes you feel and decide if you want them in your life. This has been a skill ive had to learn.
        On facebook i had a lady who kept making remarks to my posts that left me feeling awful. We didnt know each other aside from online and had only met once offline. I struggled to block her but decided it didnt matter if she was a narc or not i didnt want her in my day to day life. She didnt bring anything positive and did the opposite with her snide comments so i blocked her. For a week i felt uneasy about it but looking back its the best decision and i no longer need to see her backhanded comments. These types weigh you down and need to go.

      7. I love HGs comments about himself 😆 i find it so odd bc ive been the opposite in life with cutting myself down. I need to inject a bit of HG’ism in my day and praise myself🤗

      8. Lori…pls dont beat yourself up. Its a learning process. If we all went thru life never making mistakes itd be very boring. Life is meant for learning.
        I still struggle when i see narc traits wondering if someones a narcissist. For me its more seeing the narc cycle thats the clincher!
        If you see the idolyze, devalue, discard/shelf cycle then thats a huge indicator.

      9. Twilight….
        LOL. I see your point. A fuel cookie just sitting on the shelf ripe for the plucking. Thank goodness for the social anxiety and rarely leaving my house. No one else has tried to devour me yet. I often wonder if anyone ever would…narc, normal or otherwise. Meh.

      10. Shelf Fuel

        Have you tried counseling? You mentionec you had socia anxiety.

        This addiction has really got hold of you who id like to see you turn that around. We all suffer from it but it seems this guy had got a very firm grip on you. Counseling might help

      11. Shelf fuel

        I see. Yeah I had really good insurance. Just to set some mini goals for yourself llike when you want to contact tell yourself not until tomorrow if i still want to tomorrow them I will and keep moving it out. You obviously did once before for 5 months. You can do it again. Take a new hobby. I did and it’s helped a ton.

        You can do this. You just have to accept that there is nothing there for you with this guy. Forget He is married with a baby on the way, he is a narcissist he can never love you. The reality is if he replaces ipps it wont be with you. It will be with a new bright shiny appliance not one from the shelf

      12. Hi HGT1F,

        How are you? I wanted to apologize to you for my past oversensitivity on the blog. I regret my actions. I am no longer overly sensitive since I am no longer dealing with the narc! Yes, folks, dealing with narcs can make one overly sensitive! So pls break free everyone!

        Continued peace and healing to you hgt1f🌷

  29. Is there one type – Co-dep, Empath or Super Empath who is a readier candidate for a Stepford Devaluation? What would Supernova Mode look like in this case? Damaging the façade I should think,and sticking around to prevent the installation of a new fuel-giving IPPS.

    1. Neither would be readier because each school has different reasons why the Stepford Devaluation would appeal – A Super Empath with more narcissistic traits may well enjoy the lifestyle and be keen to preserve it, the Co-Depdendent fears the loss of the lifestyle and the overall impact on them and the view given to the world, therefore they would want to stick around.

      1. YES! A Codependent would worry about perceptions. Codependency if fear and shame driven and are very concerned with perception. This is correct. I will say sometimes the Codepebdent can go off the rails when they have just had enough. Some withdraw. Some go on the attack. I’ve experienced both.

    2. Julie

      They were so completely different yet now I see they were so the same. I have had therapy read countless material on the subject and I f ing missed it!!!

      I knew there was something wrong but I didn’t think it was Narcissism but now I see it so was. The difference between a lesser and mid ranger. Ugh ! ugh ! Yep I’m a Codependent I’m drawn to them and they are drawn to me

      I discussed narcissim so many times with him discussing my previous mid ranger having no idea he was yet another

      1. Lori.. I agree. They are the same but diffrent. I went to a therapy session a few times but nothing more. The therapist wasn’t familiar with my problem I think. Not a very good one tbh. I just quit going and moved on in my own way. I had a greater for almost 4yrs then a lesser and a brief brush with a few mid rangers.. Im giving up on this whole dating thing. Its overrated .all I seem to attract are narcissists. The least they could all do is let me pick which type I want for petes sake. LOL

          1. Same here.. when I get too far I realize its time to keep my inner bitch in check and feel bad then end up apologizing (eyeroll) . Cant tell uou how many times that happened and broke it off with the exhole then it was me who crawled back most of the time. Last time seemed to have worked well enough tho. NC for several years now . There comes a time you have to save your own sanity and end it.

  30. This is all so true.. Over the last 8 weeks I have been antagonising and irritating the narc by regurgitating all the comments, phrases and behaviours I’ve been subjected to over the years.. The beauty is that is reveals all the hypocrisy, the madness, its no longer baffling, it makes perfect sense once you see it. I’ve been building up to no contact and now I’m ready. I can never compete with the mindfuckery but at least I can mimic it to create annoyance and bid my farewells. I recognise its time to get out…when you realise you’re actively engaged in game warfare.. You ask yourself what you’ve become. I’m getting out now.

  31. HG As u know I was a DLS – can a DLS cause a supernova? Can they be a super empathy? I’m in no contact but I think He’s in a relationship with a super empathy IPPS who I has high narc traits – it would be great to think she can wound him. I’ve never seen him bounce so high and buy so many things in such a short space of time 3-4 yrs, upgrade piano upgrade car upgrade boat (again) upgrade watch, new holiday home, decorate and redesign house top to bottom. Completely altered taste and style. Nothing out of place. Gone from messy, with depression and medical ailments to Not a scratch on anything and loads of energy. I wondered what was fuelling him and why the extra energy.
    But He must be devaluing her by now because I know when it kicks in. And I know he’s fuelling off others. He’s sent a lieutenant to tell me he’s talking about me. What happens in the end to the supernova relationship? Can she destroy him? Or can it end happily?
    I find myself wanting to engage in revenge by turning his own behaviours on himself. I did try it first time round but he broke me eventually.
    I’m not sure my narcissistic traits are strong enough for me to thrive in these conditions. I’m about to enter a sphere of influence. I think grey walling is my better approach. No fuel. When I found out about her At first I was envious of her ability to drive him and fuel him but now I realise it’s not fun.
    I’m wondering if I can gain satisfaction by knowing he’s suffering at the hands of another – oh thought fuel!
    HG – what do you think?

  32. Is the state of supernova related to a strong sense of justice? As an attempt to wake up the narc’s consciousness and awareness of his behaviour by giving him/her a taste of his/her own medicine?

    1. It has a link to justice but it is not about trying to wake up the narcissist’s consciousness.

    2. Chudzinka, the ES is the moment when you loose control about your feelings and do things you never wanted to do ever. You forget your good upbringing/education, you forget, that you are an empathic person and you feel the need to delete him (socially, financially and in any way, you may think of). There is no rationality anymore. You feel at least rage. And you have a strong need for revenge. You will be (for a firm time), what he is… You mirror his dark side. It is not the will to wake up his consciousness and awareness. You want to delete him. It is an explosion of your own dark traits, that you normally have under control and which you disgust. You need a lot of time to get your feelings under control again. In your dreams at night you torture him in any way you may have seen in a cinema. And you fight and fight and fight against these dark feelings until they vanish or calm down or you plan and plot to ruin him at least financially. I did the last one. I planned so long and had found a way to do it (legal way) and in the end I did not, because I do not want to be like him. But this feeling I could do it, if I want to… and if he tries to hurt me again, that feeling gives me a lot of satisfaction.
      He has had a taste of his own medicine too… He saw the absolute nastiness in my eyes. They darkened. I am not proud of it. And he was completely surprised. I have a high conscience and that was what rescued me in the end.

      1. Mona,
        Thank you so much for your input. The concept of revenge in your words is highly interesting because I have hardly been in that state in my life.
        The state in which I get into is more about a high sense of emotional justice by acting back the way narc does with me, so narc could be aware of how it feels when trespassing the boundaries. Mirroring narc’s behaviour. After, I found it a real waste of time and energy.
        I don’t think that I have been in Supernova!

  33. Temptation was too great . . . I must comment because I am guilty as charged . . . I know who I am and how it played out with much greater emotional clarity and logical thinking. I am a super.

    Bravo HG! This article was beyond great, well written, you laid it on the line, HG.

    My narc traits since going supernova have gone off the scale. What a trip it’s been lol . . .

  34. And I did the section with the Mid-Ranger. Oh, the pity plays I got. I fucked with him but the difference was I was very sad and tired afterwards. I didn’t want to do it but I felt I had no choice at that point.

    1. Bibi… i understand how you felt.. I doled it out on my greater and it was so hard to do and maintain that eventually I waved the flag of surrender. I couldnt win but by gosh I gave it my best shot. Several occasions to be accurate. Its mentally draining and I started to feel like I was the mean person and sorry for him. Not anymore though. I wouldnt piss on him if he were on fire now.
      Bitter….table for one please.

  35. When I went to the main page, the blog layout looks different. The font is weird and small. The menu bar is blue? I am not on a phone.

    Then when I went to leave a comment it looks normal. Is anyone else seeing this? Or am I being gaslighted?

    Haha. I don’t like change.

    1. Bibi, have you noticed it also no longer allows us to “like” comments and posts? It requires log-in information from me, and in the past, it allowed likes by everyone. Now it wants Word Press log-in info. I’m not sure if everyone is having this issue or if it’s just me.

      1. Me too, Mary…and I feel unfriendly not liking posts (so everyone please consider yourselves forever LIKED by me).

        Several, including HG, have kindly tried to help me with my tech issues, so I’m not trying to be a little crybaby~I don’t want a WP account, so I’m rather out of luck, which is on me. 🙂

      2. Mary, I am having that issue. I can’t like others’ posts, so they might think I don’t acknowledge them. I don’t know what’s up.

  36. The Empathic Supernova is a fierce contender. H.G., have you ever suffered a substantial blow by one? If so, how?

        1. Ohhh bold move clarece! Maybe its just me being slightly intimidated by HG but i could never ask him about his personal life but if chooses to share thats fine by me LOL

          1. Haha Julie! If you go back in the archives to the first year, I hit him hard with questions, all day long. He’s spread much more thin and way busier now, so he can’t indulge me as much.

          2. Lol you are braver than I am. Im not going to poke the bear… Im a wee bit shell shocked with the greaters like him haaaa

      1. Hi Clarece! Good to see you here. I remember you from last summer and weren’t sure if you were still posting. How is everything going?

        1. Hi Mary! I remember you very well! For the most part, I’m doing good. I had a minor setback recently. But that can be a story for another day. Lol
          Thank you for thinking of me. Means a lot! ❤

      2. HG,

        When you had the supernovas occur, how did it make you feel? Is it like receiving high-octane negative fuel for you?

        Or is it something that you feel is threatening to you? Does it cause a wound, or a loss of confidence in your facade, or a loss of control?

        What is your instinctive emotional reaction to the supernova?

        Afterwards, do you feel the need to hoover or reinstate the golden period? Or do you feel a need to punish the empath in question in order to address the wound.

        Your post is interesting because it describes a kind of ‘fuel’ that the narcissist has provoked, but that they may not actually want.

        1. Large amounts of fuel, provided repeatedly over a sustained period for a highly potent appliance.

          Does not wound because it will usually be Challenge Fuel.

          I do not feel threatened (although I recognise this is issued as a threat to my superiority – I know I will be able to stamp out the rebellion), although many narcissists would feel the threat to their notion of superiority.

          My reaction is to relish the fuel, assert superiority at the appropriate time and keep a careful eye that there is no diminution of control. With the ES, for me, it is the risk to control which I see as potentially problematic.

          You are correct – whilst the ES will provide a lot fuel there are significant risk factors alongside this which lower echelon narcissists would find problematic.

          1. HG

            My ex never brought me back under control, for the moment I brought him down. I am not proud of this nor am I boasting. It is a memory that haunts me.
            I learned many things not only about myself but about him.

          2. Thank you for the reply HG. As always, your answer provides interesting and valuable information.

      3. Clarece, I’m glad to hear things are going well for you. Hoping to hear more from you, whenever you feel like sharing (or have time to). Hugs!

  37. Excellent article HG… as usual by the grand master . Now you got my mind churning over things.I have to chuckle a bit at your closing challange comment. I can only imagine my ex elite narc thinking the same thing . Ill put this Article in my notes to talk to you about when I get a chance to do a consultation.

  38. Could you give some examples of the supernova in practice? Since the fuel becomes shut off, is it similar to going grey rock? Or is it something different? Thanks.

  39. HG,
    Can you share examples of how the “Supernova” would wound the Narc? Whether it be a separate article to explain or even one of your recent “dialogues” like the one between the MRN and the DLS/Shelf IPSS? Thank you!

  40. Dare I say that I love my Narcissistic traits? Yikes! But absolutely!!!
    I sometimes thinks it’s the glue that holds me together.
    Thanks again, HG.
    I’m beginning to understand who I am.

    1. T
      Embrace them without fear because they will not overshadow your empathy, but rather help to balance and protect you.

      1. NA,
        It’s a little hard not to feel a sense of shame about it, because I feel a raw sense of power from that.
        But thank you for saying it’s ok to embrace it.
        It’s a weird sensation, and even stranger to begin to understand and recognize.
        This is why I love the hell out of HG’s work. It’s helping me recognize who I am. Sad, but true.

  41. “This means that they will fight back against our kind and remain in the relationship with us. They will shut off the fuel provision, they will engage in manipulation of us, having learned how to effect it form their accompanying journey with out kind. The Super Empath will wound and wound, striking blow upon blow against the narcissist. It is worth pointing out that the Super Empath does not necessarily know that they are with a narcissist (they may only realise this later) but rather they know that something is very wrong in the relationship and it must no longer continue.”

    So me. I briefly responded as a Co-Dependent. But I was not just reacting to him but to absorbing the full impact and sudden understanding of what my mother is. And so I literally did take myself to bed. I rested and rested. I was somewhat catatonic for a few days. And then the anger grew. I shifted. Sat up and started to FIGHT. And like a mid ranger, he cried, “Stop! I can’t take this” At other times, said he was afraid of me, and my destruction. Another time, told me that we could continue if I learned to pause, count to ten before running my mouth…. trying to get me to heel. None worked in the end. I left the ‘relationship’, albeit, an online one. And I did learn some manipulations from him and used them on him. And he knows what he is… told me himself that even predators know when to withdraw from the game of cat and mouse. So, I guess, similar to a Greater but I am not convinced entirely he is.

    How do you identify someone who is a Super Empath HG? Is it something you slowly discover as you work someone? Does a Super Empath give off signals that distinguishes them from an Empath? I am asking as I want to know much more about this type of empath. When you said you tread lightly, is it as you slowly become aware a target is a Super Empath as you continue to engage? Or do you know instinctively from the beginning? How many Super Empaths have you encountered? How rare are Super Empaths in your experience?

    And lastly, what are the “Dire Consequences”? I need to know more about what you mean by dire. Dire in terms of wounding? Lasting wounds? Irreperable wounds that take a very long time to fade? And have you ever just decided to stay away from a Super Empath after she has gone SuperNova because of those dire consequences? The dire consequences is why I feel I won’t ever be at risk from him, he has too many co-dependent/empathic options and in general, many deseperate young girls who think he has something for him.

  42. I’m not sure if this is what u mean but when he discarded me of course I did go back again later and ultimately left him , but when he originally discarded me he called me every name I. The book and I responded by telling him how small his penis is what a horrible sex partner he was how his breath stunk which was a ll true but I held it in to this point I also did the same thing when he started devaluing me but I never tried to get him back I went no contact Im not sure if this is what you mean by this

        1. Okay, HG, so you shouldn’t reply like that because I’m dying to say something, but I’ll control myself (I’m under stress from flying monkeys, so my brain goes to humor)…

          But for Melinda’s sake, I’ll be serious.

          Melinda~I believe that HG means that if you give a narcissist a negative comment/criticism — with a lot of emotion while doing it (like yelling at them/getting upset emotionally yourself) — they take that in as attention (fuel), even though the comment is negative about them. So that would not wound then. But if you would be all calm, cool and collected while saying something insulting/a criticism to them, that *would* wound.

          So it’s all in the delivery.

          1. If you say it without any emotion exhibited (not just tone, but facial expression, body language etc) it will wound.
            If you write it without any emotion exhibited (which is easier to do) it will wound.
            If you write or say it angrily, nastily, in a hurt manner – you will be issuing Challenge Fuel.

      1. LMAO….I had no idea telling a narc they are small had such different outcomes. But yeah as HG says it is all about the delivery.

        HG I have wondered how the “back handed compliments” work with a narc.

        For example, Saint Piano says things to me like “I often forget how smart you really are” …. one of your readers here (I think it was Narc Affair but if it was not, my bad as I cannot recall who) but anyway they told me next time he says something like that to say “I often forget that sometimes you’re NOT an asshole…”

        But anyway about the back handed compliment. If I were to say something like that would it wound AND be challenge fuel at the same time? Or does one usually prevail over the other?

      2. My favorite backhanded compliment “i dont care how beautiful you are, you are still a pain in the ass”


        1. Do you consider that a compliment, Lori? That is pure nonsensical rudeness, as in: what has one to do with the other?
          Beautiful people are no better than anyone else, in my opinion, unless in South Korea, where some are made to have plastic surgery, in order to get a job…

    1. SN

      What? My example was a perfect example of a back handed compliment. I don’t see where he or anyone else said anything about beautiful people being better than anyone else.

      As far as Koreans, don’t know the first thing about them and don’t know how they relate to this. Maybe I’m missing something ?

      The Narc would often say I was beautiful but then as the relationship progressed it was always followed by BUT

      1. Let’s try it with exaples, Lori (and please keep in mind they are just that)

        “You are a genius writer BUT nobody understands what you want to say”

        “You are a great cook BUT I prefer dishes cooked by another one”

        “You are a nice person BUT your haircut calls for heaven’t wrath”

        “You are intelligent BUT what you say makes sense to no one”

        Did you feel complimented?;)

        You are a nice girl, Lori, I am sure!

      2. What am I missing here? That’s why it’s called a back handed compliment. A compliment followed by insult. It’s what they do.

        Everything they do is about creating contrast with black and white.

  43. Mr. Tudor how and where do you get so much of your thoughts flowing through you, it is none stop. You never have a lack of words to share, thoughts and information. Do you do research besides your own life to look at? What was your real life work? Does it give you this gift of gab? Curious minds want to know. AS ME…Thank you dear teacher SW~

        1. Bibi, lol… and I was going to give him a bit of really good fuel, but why bother? I’ve lost all motivation to do so. He’s already whirling around like a windmill.

      1. LOL Caroline.

        It’s funny because this morning when I wrote this I was tired and thinking of all I needed to do today (which the day still isn’t done!) so I was low energy.

        So I needed the fuel!!!

        I had some tea.

        HG you are charismatic and clever but even so are worthy of being teased a little. 😛

      2. I would love to be teased.

        I’ve been watching Depeche Mode vids recently and marveling at their 80s stone washed mom-jeans.

        It makes me think of you, HG, moving your hips like Dave in ‘The World In My Eyes’ vid.

        I like the black shades, HG. Very sexy.

          1. That was uncalled for a man who can dance loves the 80s and has a sexy voice knock it off before I fall in lust

          2. Hehehehe. I know what you’re talking about Twilight. 😊

          3. Shake it if you got it and I can only imagine HG’s got it going on for sure. Mmmm mmm Lmao

          4. Lol, I would say I feel like slender with muscles…shaved head, blue eyes, with tattoos on his upped arms…
            Omg! While I was writing this I just literally experienced a big earthquake here in hawaii!!!!
            As our volcano is erupting!!!

          5. NA!!! Lololol! Good morning and Aloha!!! Yes, I thought it was fitting that I was guessing what he looked like when it happened!!!
            He does rock my world!!!

          6. Well if he can make time stand still with his kiss just imagine what he’d do in between the sheets, Narc Angel. LOL.

            Sigh. Salacious gutter mind yet again. That’s what happens when I haven’t had any since last October. (and it was with my MRN).


          7. 1st.. stay safe! Hope your ok! Heard about it on the news. Let us know your ok!

            2nd.. If HG has tattoos & bald .. SOLD! Jk (sorry love a bald tattooed fella lol) brownie points if he rides .

          8. Hi Julie, yes, thank you. Everyone here is safe.
            We’re all too funny trying to guess what HG looks like!

          9. I hope the experience wasn’t too bad! (I liked earthquake magnitude 3-4 once or twice myself)
            But stay well, and remember to hhgh-five yourself this time for being brave and still keeping your joking attitude about it.

          10. Lol, hi SN !
            Your comment made me smile. Thank you because lately I’ve had the humor of a sour lemon, lol.
            Yeah, we had a 6.9 quake. It was pretty freaky, the earth literally split open, pouring out lava.
            Some town’s where evacuated. I’m on the other side of the volcano. Thank God. We got together with the neighbors and had a volcano party, lol!!!

      3. Absolutely HG, it was more the imagery of this type of dancing to depeche mode that had me in stitches…

      4. Mr. HG Tudor doesn’t look like Rick Astley. If the photos seen here are of him: including one from a young age, one in his teens or 20s and another closer in age now, then it is safe to say he is a very good looking, debonair man.

      5. Hi catherine parr…there are no pics of HG. What pics are you referring to bc hes not posted pics of himself?
        I vaguely remember rick astley…didnt he sing ” together forever”?

        1. Speaking of what HG looks like.
          Which is a topic of much debate.
          HG did say it is his silohette in the ask HG posts.
          I imagine him looking like a younger Anthony Perkins.
          I know HG states he has blonde hair,
          but for some reason I always envision him with dark hair.
          There was a photo, for the Smiling Assassin post.
          That reminded me of a photo I once saw of Anthony Perkins.
          That had a menacing and malignant narcissistic sociopath, more then psycho, look about him.

          1. His silhouette is also in the grandfather clock on one of his Instagram videos.

          2. Clarece, I somehow doubt that!

            Speaking of grandfather clocks though – I moved my grandfather’s clock yesterday as gradnmom is renovating. Nice one!

          3. Thank you Clarece.
            I did not even know HG had an Instagram.
            Will check it out.

      6. Ugotit & Twilight
        The duty to disclose someone’s identity lies with the owner especially in this case with Mr. Tudor not with me. Everybody should respect his right to privacy. It would also be reasonable to conclude that someone of his stature and model looks would most probably command a woman in the same realm, nothing sub-Parr.

        1. apologies for being too subpar to be able to see these pictures of hg you refer too , I’m happy to here that your on a high enough echelon that your able to see them lol, here’s a thought maybe you should consider selling them , you could make a pretty penny , some of us underlings might pay big bucks for the opputunity to gaze upon his beauty

          1. Ugotit

            Why let another get under you skin?

            One thing I “see” is a superiority attitude that any one below a certain level would never “see” subtitles within subtitles to be able to pick out the truth. Then insult another when asked and use the response I respect his privacy line so I can not reveal that which I have stated to know.

            She amused me with her response.

          2. Ugotit

            Ha ha I just reread your comment

            I am in a fog…slipped in a walk in freezer, thought I broke my foot again….nothing like the doctor asking if you ever broke your foot and you go yes why? They never showed me the X-rays when it was done….they broke both my foot and ankle seeing the healed results…he wanted me to scream and I wouldn’t it, took them doing that to make me scream. It is funny the things that will trigger memories.

            I am rambling, I reread your comment and understood the meaning behind it.

        2. Catherine Parr

          If you truly respected HGs privacy you would not have stated you know what he looks like.

          Your act IMO is to cause some discord and focus some attention onto you.

          Many here are infatuated with him and many would love to know what he looks like. In this arena what he looks like is not important as to the knowledge he possesses on his kind and how one can be effective in dealing with them.

          A woman of his caliber would see this and support HIS work, respect his privacy, and not insult his readers here in this place.

          His private life is a different place and one you may not even make the grade by HIS standards not yours. For the many that is a very good thing.

          You did amused me by insinuating you are better then me yet know nothing of me.

      7. “ apologies for being too subpar to be able to see these pictures of hg you refer too , I’m happy to here that your on a high enough echelon that your able to see them lol”
        …and all of what you said.

        You’ve got it, Ugotit!
        Omg, you made me snicker…you’re awesome.

      8. Twilight

        I respect both your comment and Ugotit’s.

        I think that the superior attitude that Ugotit reacted to is partly due to the fact that such a lofty statement – without any visible evidence loses credibility (at least to my mind it does). Why the need to make the declaration then?

        When I read your blog comments it becomes clear that you speak from a place of strength, self-reflection…and something else – and if questioned you could easily support your view but don’t feel the need to since your self-knowledge is sufficient – therefore you speak from a place of self-confidence.

        I also see Ugotit’s comment from a place of self-confidence. She has both an honesty to her comments and an edge that I respect. If someone comes out with such a declaration of having knowledge of HG’s identity – they should expect different reactions

        1. WhoCares

          I wasn’t insinuating Ugotit had a superior attitude. She has always voiced her opinions in a way that shows curiosity, pain, growth, and confidence not superior. If she has I have not come across it yet.

          I asked why let another get under your skin. Then explained what I saw from Catherine’s comment.
          When I reread her comment I saw it in a different perspective and understood she saw what I saw. She just dealt with it differently.
          My fog had subsided some then.

          Pain medication and I do not mix well, I prefer my way of just redirecting the energy. No fog!

      9. Narc Angel: I’m dying over here after reading your volcano comment!

        T: Hope you are safe and okay.

      10. Some took my compliment about Mr. Tudor and somehow buried it and in true empath style made it all about their own little feelings and even the lowly suggestion to capitalise. Don’t worry about the message to the site’s host! Ohh no no no no. The focus must be on those hurt and their emotional output and quivering lower lip facing so much hurt to a joke. Would that be a narcissistic streak from so called empaths?

        1. Catherine

          It took a minute to remember where I read the name Catherine Parr….interesting how you chose Henry Vlll widow name.

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