Poll : Which Of The Following Subjects Would You Like Me To Write More About?
This poll does not need any great explanation. There is a list of topic below, you may choose a maximum of three in respect of those topics you would like to read more about. The top three will have further material provided about them – the top three will be ascertained as at midnight Thursday 17 May 2018 (UK time)
Edit : People have kindly added other topics in comments they would like to be addressed. To save people from repetition, please note that certain topics were not included in the poll because the subjects are either covered in books that I am writing and/or are bespoke matters best suited to consultation. Examples of this include narcissists in the workplace, how to avoid narcissists once you are dating, addressing emotional thinking, how to know if you will be hoovered, detail about my life and my interaction with the good doctors. Thank you, HG.
Loading ...372 thoughts on “Poll : Which Of The Following Subjects Would You Like Me To Write More About?”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.
Dear Mr Tudor,
I guess I’ve always wanted a ten step immediate plan of action in all areas …. we are women … that’s what we like
Also, what to say and what not to say in various situations. A one on one dialogue scenario, a guidance chart and perhaps situations which represent real life interactions.
Thank you for this opportunity
HG, I have a query I’d love clarification on regarding the development (or lack thereof) of empathy;
You were exposed from BIRTH to a narcissistic parent, and as such, it makes sense your empathy did not develop at ALL.
However, a person that was exposed to JUST ENOUGH love , amidst neglect, narcissism etc, as a child , perhaps their development of empathy could develop somewhat, albeit not much, and relatively stunted- an immature type of empathy (?)
I ask bcuz, my kids dad displays what I feel is genuine empathy for his kids and any pets. He doesn’t deliberately provoke for fuel (as he does me), and I’m pretty decent at susssing out his fake empathy (I’ve seen it, sensed it as an act) from what feels very genuine empathy for his kid (although not in all circumstances- he seems ignorant of the more complex empathy (ie spending time with his child is important to his development, he cannot see this) -BUT IF the kid is hurt physically, or hurting badly emotionally, his dad displays appropriate care beyond that which I feel one could fake (and he certainly didn’t learn it as we had them young)
I’d love articles clarifying highly narcissistic/abusive spouses with low empathic range , compared to those, who are a full on narc lacking any empathy at all. The sliding scale of narcissism as it were.
Thank you for everything, you’re a life changer.
Hi Mr. Tudor What is the Mysterious Energy to have US SIRED to you The Narcissists. Grooming, Brainwashing, Spell. YES you mess with our minds. BUT how do you get us to do things for you, to please you. You wear us down mentally. HOW DO YOU DO THIS TO MORE THEN ONE AND HAVE A HAREM AND ROTATE US AND KEEP US SEPARATE, BUT THE SAME FOR YOU…HOW HOW HOW.!!!!! Thank you
Spiritual Warrior
I think it is called the seduction.
As far as I can tell “Spiritual Warriors” don’t need to ask questions like that…
SN stands for what and what do you mean. Don’t need to ask questions like that?? Thank you kindly
SN are two random letters of the alphabet. They can stand for many things.
They generally don’t need to ask much questions about other people. They are the storm.
Trauma Bonds/Stockholm Syndrome
Houdini – hell yeasss
I truly thought of that of the Narc. GF but she one day went bat crazy on me, on the phone. She was just using me to vent of her issues with the narc. as her family and friends either did not know the full truth of them and their secret double life or they her friends where sick of her cracking and having crying sobs. One day she called me from a friends house, as the narc. blocked her from his phone. The friends was in ahh of who and what I was and the sickness this man was doing to women. I was crying. Then I found out I was used as a tool for her to vent and then to get my evidence on him. She played me well. She is Charlie Manson main woman Evil.
Hi HG.
I see lots of people on Quora are confused how to understand the difference whether they dated narcissist or borderline. So I voted this one.
To the same question, to my mind, can be added the topic whether it was just a jerk or a narcissist. In other words, everything that is similar to narcissism for unexperienced eye, but is not narcissism indeed.
The topic I personally interested in – the healing narcissist. The “emerging self” approach etc. I’ve seen already at least three writing therapists who was able to help narcissistic people feel life to the full and dissolve old defenses. They are James Masterson, Elinor Greenberg (who also learned from Masterson, but developed own approach connected to Gestalt – she is actively interacting on Quora), and the author of “five patterns” – unfortunately I don’t have his book for reference under my hand now to write his name correctly. All these people do not suggest the masking approach of CBT/DBT (which is anyway useful for low functioning cluster B’s), but go deeper to the roots of the worldview. So their success makes task seems possible, despite demanding the hard work. But I’m not sure this is interesting topic for you HG to write about…
What else…
Your answers to letters to the narcissists. Have seen somewhere that such a play was planned and it sounds very interesting.
The interaction between narcissists and borderlines
Because they both view black / white value/devalue . Hoovers . Toxic logic never a final -discard.
And I guess our fuel can taste delicious (silent bpds) apologize for everything blame ourself always confused , when in love you are our Universe . I think borderliners can be all the schools of Empaths in one . Yet good at achieving our goals and work hard at least the intelligent ones .
But I would love to read more about all. Your work is much appreciated .
DoForLuv
“The interaction between narcissists and borderlines
Because they both view black / white value/devalue . Hoovers . Toxic logic never a final -discard.”
I mean no disrespect yet within your comment I do not see how a boarderline can be all the schools of empths, would you expand on your opinion?
Because we do feel love and all the other Empathic
I can only talk and say this for silent borderliners .
DoForLuv
What is the difference between a “silent” boarderline and a boarderline?
What other empathetic sensations are you speaking of?
*Other Empathic sensations
Nicely phrased Twilight – I had the same thought.
So this will be in my sarcastic words: What I mostly feel in the presence of boarderlines I know is “give me ALL your attention, listen to all I have to say, yet don’t count on me to do much of the same.”
Plus their expressions of jealousy can be way over board and very public.
I noticed mostly cognitive empathy (or inferior extraverted feeling).
How about the interaction with bipolars?
They may tend to exhibit less empathy but feel much more true and authentic to me. Only 1-2% of those as well, so I guess they are as rare as Contagion Empaths. Also, bipolars can go into euthymia periods, when they are simply “normal”.
SN
Why would you think bipolars show less empathy?
Windstorm, due to a long-term relationship with one. I also have two bipolar mates who don’t beat around the bush to express their opinions and all three really don’t seem to care what others can feel, think or do about it.
I only know those three. And they are male. It may be different for bipolar women, but I haven’t had the pleasure yet.
What are your thoughts?
SN
Like you, the diagnosed bipolars I know are few – only 2, myself and my therapist. We are both pretty empathic. Definitely not a large enough sample for either of us to draw an accurate conclusion. Based on our personal experiences, I’d say bipolars can go either way – empaths or not.
What I’ve read seems to conclude that abuse as a child often creates either greater empathy (to be aware of others emotions for your own survival), or narcissism. Childhood trauma and abuse also seems a factor in developing any of the personality disorders.
I personally was an empath before I have any memories of abuse (and developed my various forms of mental illnesses). My ability to read people definitely did help me in staying under the radar of abusive family.
I believe my bipolar disorder strengthens my empathy. Since I am intimately familiar with routinely feeing everything from euphoric highs to devastating depression, i believe I am better able to identify and understand extreme feelings in those around me. Knowing how horrible I feel in the lows makes me especially motivated to help others I see sad or depressed.
In my case, and the relationship I had, the bipolar person did not go to therapy and is generally always “wiser” than anyone around him.
One of the mates is bipolar II, in therapy, and recently very religious. So he is doing quite well, looking for a wife.
The other one is bipolar I. I was the only person who was not scared of him and his psychosis. I had interest. I haven’t been in touch to know exactly what he is like now but I saw today he was “to cool to feel pain”(which rhymes in my language).
Oh, a fun fact: they are unrelated yet share a brother, who was supposed to be bipolar I bro, but turned out his hair color looked more like the guy with bipolar II. Actor parents.
I agree – a mental illness which is taken care of well is nothing to be ashamed/scared of/looked down upon.
A mental illness which is looked at as a personal stigma can create a lot of wreak and havoc in the lives of the person of interest and those around them.
We were all abused in some form and I signed myself out of the grand prix contest.
One more thing, Windstorm!
I read the studies, which are (conveniently of course!;) inconclusive – there is no actual evidence into bipolar people completely lacking empathy as a given. I think it depends on individuals, their environment, etc.
“Am I an empath? This thought may be lingering at the back of your mind, but here’s the thing: MOST human beings have the latent capacity to be empathic. It’s just that some people are more sensitive and in-tune with their gifts than others. And that is why only about 20% of people are predisposed to be more aware and empathetic (according to psychologist Elaine Aron).”
And maybe something about Russia. “Did the Americans believe that Russia would countenance their country being encircled and weakened? How on earth were the Russians supposed to respond? Empathy was, and remains, absent in many American and British politicians.”
In other words: to each their own!
If you want to know do your research educate yourself if not good day to you both .
DoForLuv
I have done my research and I have had close associates that are diagnosed boarderlines.
I was curious on your opinion, it seems thou you have now taken a defensive stance to which will take this conversation no where.
@ SN don’t get carried away into thinking just because your empathy outweighs the Narcissist that no one with a mental disorder has it too . This doesnt suits someone with a truly good heart . I’am diagnosed borderliner and i’m living with my heart open an pure .
Peace out
DoForLuv? WHERE did I state that my empathy supposedly outweighs narcissists?!
I LOVE narcs! Peace out of yourself in that case!
@Twilight, SN is prototyping. Simply put.
I didn’t find DoForLuv over defensive tbh, the empathy pageantry awards are very unconvincing when people start gaslighting and protoyping as a form of othering. The irony is, most borderliners are the way they are because of narc abuse in their childhoods – yet didn’t shut down emotionally.
Carry on.
iroll, I agree – the bdlines I know all had difficult childhood. Yes, and? Is this a reason to send somebody a stalker for having the trust to confide in them?
Or if they spend 15 minutes telling me all the details of their very busy day (talking on the phone, meeting rude neighbors, friends not delivering on what they expected) and so on , yet don’t have the patience to let me utter one sentence about my divorce, ending it with “congratulations” then I feel I have the right to unsubscribe them from my social circles and there is nothing they can do to stop me.
One of my best friends is boarderline, he shows empathy but each one of them is so jelaous about their partners that I refuse to talk to them about – they never listen to me, they want their opinions approved. Which I would never do, because it would be further hurting those people, whatever mistakes they may or may not sometimes make.
I only talk about my own experiences and people I know, I’m not a researcher doing a field trial. I also already stated that in some of my comments, so maybe I’ll ask HG to insert one line for personal disclaimers next to nickname.
What do you think, HG? Could be done?
When I was undergoing the narc aftermath shit, I was called bipolar by several of so-called ‘friends’ who only made the shitstorm worse.
I have heard this is not uncommon while one is in full blown narc addiction. Each time you hear from the bozo you are ecstatic and then when bozo devalues, you crash into his clown car.
Bibi
Yeah, that’s not bipolar. I can see where it may have seemed bipolar to a casual observer. That’s an example of probably well-meaning friends/colleagues muddying the waters with their own uneducated opinions.
Bipolar highs and lows are not caused by events or circumstances. Not really sure what causes them, but I’ve been trying to figure out mine for 40 years. I can have one just come over me practically anywhere doing practically anything. I think they’re more connected to our biochemistry and sleep patterns.
Borderliners don’t have a fixed personality like npd – we’re basically not like each other, but we all have hyper-intense emotions (and splitting triggers) – which causes problems with rational thinking. If anything, we lacked cognitive empathy until we learned it.
/iroll
Thank you
And great observations may your day be filled with laughter and joy 🙏🏾🍀
/iroll
In what regards do boarderlines not have a fixed personality like one with NPD?
A midranger can go from one extreme to another, have black and white thinking, idolized and then devalue yet not see or recognize this behavior as such, only seeing they are a good person and they to have to learn cognitive empathy.
The few boarderlines I know both personal and professional can become very aggressive, black and white thinking, when one is black all they do is tar and feather you to others, white you are the best thing sense sliced bread. Manipulating and controlling. Yet see themselves as good people only that the world has treated them unfairly.
Now with that said I am not stated that they are a narcissist only that in my real life this is what I have observed.
So what I am trying to find out is what is the difference? I have found going to a source is the best place to get accurate answers. Who better then a boarderline to understand a boarderlines perspective.
I’m not borderline but the ones I have known don’t appear to have a fixed sense of self they need stimulus from the outside to tell them if they are feeling good or bad that day the ones I knew if people were good to her she felt good if people were bad to her she fell apart she could not decide she was OK on her own
Thank you Ugotit
I worked closely with one that was diagnosed, I still am not sure if she really was or she was actually a narcissist. She is controlling, aggression, entitlement (fraternization with crew) she had to be removed from one store due to this, jealous the list can go on.
The other was in my personal life and she damn near killed her husband, affairs, controlling, jealous. She was also diagnosed as a boarderline,
That has been my experience with them.
I don’t have anything against them, I just see many similarities and they “feel” differently and I can not place exactly how.
when not under elevated emotion stress, individuals with BPD have an enhanced ability discriminate mental states based on only the eye region of the face, particularly for “neutral” states. This experimental evidence is consistent with the “paradoxical” theory of the appraisal of social communication in BPD. That is, it seems that BPD is characterized by both unstable interpersonal relationships and enhanced sensitivity to the mental states of others.
BPD often seem to “personalize” the emotions of others (“you must be angry with me”), even when there are other equally plausible explanations for the other’s emotional state
For those of us who had the strength to escape (but are forced to still see and interact with the narc) any help with reducing the fuel we give off would be great. I’ve only seen one mention of gray rock in your writings and would love to know what we can do along those lines.
Do read ‘How to reduce giving fuel to the narcissist’
Thank you HG!! Not sure how I missed that post. Exactly the type of guidance I need. I was the victim of one of those (probably not so) accidentally-misdirected texts you’ve written about. Luckily it set off the supernova I needed to escape after 5 years as a shelf IPSS. No secret wish for a hoover. No stalking his social media. Nope. I want him out of my head and life. So while I am stuck having interact with him occasionally, I can keep your words on my head as I “stand on the air hose.” Thank you!
You are welcome.
– cerebral narcissists
– elite narcissists
– reasons why exes of yours have entered your 6th sphere
– how the 6th sphere works for narcs
Good ideas, Vanessa. Yes HG, an article on cerebral narcs would be good.
please finish your book
Definitely on the Super Empath/Super Nova. This one rings the strongest for me. Just not sure what happens AFTER the super nova event. I get alot of the dynamics leading up to it, but what about afterwards?
Good question sarabella
I kept changing what I wanted to know about, but finally settled on three. Hope I made it on time. Hard to choose just three!
“Please Sir, I want some more!”
And I am with so many others, on wanting to know more about HG.
That you are here at all seems an accident. That you are aware and willing to talk, well, no other narcissist either can or will do so, and still be viewed as human by so many empaths.
Thank you for consulting with your audience, and I look forward to reading whatever you write.
Well said Perse. I agree with everything you said. It is extremely unusual that a narc explains their behaviour the way HG does.
I look forward to everything you write too HG, and thank you for being so openly accessible to your readers. It is very much appreciated.
I know I have voiced my views in opposition to you at times HG, however, I really do enjoy every one of your posts. Whatever you write about is interesting to me. Keep it coming!! 🙂
Thank you and you are welcome.
Well, HG, after 411 votes one of mine is dead last! Obviously Contagion Empath won’t be in the top three. Maybe you will still have time to address it in upcoming work. Are we rare, HG, so as not to be of interest? Or are people maybe not even aware of the category?
It will be addressed in due course, but you are very rare.
I would rather know more how empaths operate, how we can get help. To heck with the narcs . . . r they aware? Who cares. Mine was aware and he chooses every day to be an arsehole.
I don’t know what a Contagion Empath is. I’m a Super duper s*** scooper . . . .
HG
Re: Contagion Empath
Ok, like a true Super Saviour Empath I use my 3 votes for information on the Contagion Empath. Windstorm and Twilight have been here on the blog a very long time and contribute greatly, so I would love for them to get that information. It doesnt seem fair that we can talk about hoovers EVERY DAMN DAY but because the Contagion Empath is rare their information gets pushed to the back.
Also-neither of them is getting any younger.
NarcAngel
Ha, ha, ha!!! You’re last line totally cracked me up!!! Too true. One more of the many things I may die in ignorance about! 😝😝😝
Windstorm
I laughed at the last line to.
How are you? How are you grand babies?
Twilight
Thanks for asking about me. I’m fine. Health so-so, but that’s all self inflicted. Family’s all fine. Busy time now for me until school ends the end of May, but my life is very blessed.
Hope you’re doing well.
Hello Windstorm
Yes life is good and getting better every day.
Windstorm and Twilight
Haha. That was me doing affection.
Narc Angel
I adore your unique style.
I actually like it.
In response to your other comment.
Being an empath means one must put in this front as being honest and not truthful. People can take honest yet truth is very uncomfortable then add to the mix an empath that can walk in another’s shoes doesn’t want to “hurt” another’s feeling because then they must experience it to. So they have learned to be comfortable in a lie dressed up they convenice them selves of. To hurt a person is not to love them.
Yet unconditional love is using truth to set them free from these chains.
Empathy can be a weakness cause then ET gets in a ruckus and people lose sight of the intent and become defensive.
I hope I made sense.
Twilight and NarcAngel
I agree with your analysis, Twilight. I like to think that I never lie to anyone to spare their feelings, but God knows I’m constantly NOT saying things for fear it might hurt or offend the listener. And twilights right, this is because I will feel their pain or upset myself, so I’d be hit with the double whammy of knowing I’ve upset someone by my actions and having to feel their upset emotions myself.
And in my life’s experience most of the “hard truths” I’ve heard said to myself and others are often wrong and/or just someone’s opinion. And as to being willing to take criticism from HG, but not from each other, that may be because we see him as an expert – not just another one of us.
I will always choose the kindest way I know to help and I appreciate others doing the same for me. This is because anything else for me just causes pain and suffering. But I understand many people arent that way and that is fine. We’re all different. I guess maybe it boils down to how much emotions from other people affect you. NarcAngel you seem to be able to ignore others emotions when you choose and not let them overwhelm you. That’s great! More power to you. I can only look on in wonder, because that’s an ability I will never have.
That is so sweet NA and HG listens to you too. Virtual friends are awesome!
MB
HG does not listen to me (or anyone else)- he does what he wants. It just doesnt stop me from saying what I want lol.
In all seriousness, after I hit send on my comment to MB, something struck me that has been in the back of my mind.
it struck me that HG (being a narcissist) has never stopped me from saying what I want and yet I have felt stifled or that I have to hold back where empaths are concerned, which is ironic. I am generally very blunt in real life and figure those who choose to see injury over my actual intent in a message just dont get me and ok-Im not their cup of tea. I move on. Its the same here. Sometimes I see things (because it is easier to when youre looking in) but I hold back because I know now because of my personality that some people will take it as an attack instead of something they might just consider. I find myself explaining more or wording things so they read less harmful (when they arent meant to be harmful at all) or I just dont. I have noticed it in other commenters as well-backing down on what they had to say or softening it as not to offend. I agree we are all here to learn, try to understand, and support each other, but are we really being truthful and/or helpful if we are not saying what we really think in order not to offend? Is that honest or helpful? I am not talking about out and out attacks such as calling names etc, and yes I accept that people do not have to accept anyones view, but often I think they dont look for the intent behind the message. Was the intent just to harm for harms sake? Or was it intended to give you pause or examine something your emotional thinking may prevent you from considering? People will take all kinds of bitter medicine from HG but if someone else dares to point similar things out they are often roasted and vilified. It doesnt bother me when people reject what I have to say as it is just my opinion and I actually like to see that people still have fight left in them as I think that will help them to heal-but I wonder sometimes of they consider the actual intent rather than just see an attack. I wonder if this is because empaths have some black and white thinking themselves in that (generally in the minds of an empath) HG is bad and therefore we accept his messages are harsh but that empaths are supposed to be all goodness and light? I wonder when they respond angrily to a comment how they had so much patience and understanding in their narc relationship but reject input from others that have been in their situation immediately as criticism. Recently I wanted to point out that I thought someones emotional thinking was causing them to lose sight of the facts (right there in their comment) but I have learned that is not appreciated unless it comes ftom HG so I did not advance my thought. It made me wonder that if my only purpose here is to share humor (and not all of that is received well either), then isnt my presence here conditional? And then it struck me – isnt that what we are fighting in the bigger picture? For our right to be who we are and not conditional upon who others think we should be or how they think we should act?
Who does that sound like?
NarcAngel, I like your comments! If they don’t like them here so much that you start to feel like not writing them anymore, then let me know! I’ll give you my email address or something and you can write them at me. We would have fun, I can tell!;)
But seriously, there is a statue in my country, one of the 37 million to commemorate WWII, it is shaped as a wedding ring, and says,
“And even if I was to lose my life, I prefer so – than live with a wound in my heart.”
It is a quote the rotamaster wrote in one of his letters.
Be yourself NarcAngel! Everybody else is taken.
Your comments here are insightful, helpful, and humorous. This site would not be the same without your contributions. But I’m one that “gets you” (at least I think I do). This is not an arena where things SHOULD be sugar coated. People need tough love sometimes. It jolts them awake and makes them see their thinking for what it is. Myself included! I’ve had a gut punch or two here. SometimesI think people just want to be HEARD and not necessarily HELPED. To have an outlet, a voice. If they are in the right place in the process, your intent will be understood and well received. If they are not, they may perceive it as an attack. Your INTENT is the same in either case, but as ever, it’s their perception that governs their reaction. It has nothing to do with you at all as your message is the same.
You just keep on doing you, the REAL you. Let them do them at the place where they are. They can embrace your sage observations or they can reject them. It’s your intent that shines through whether through humor or tough love and I think most are honored that you care enough to comment.
NA,, im chiming in briefly. I adore your bluntness. I have read many of your posts and find myself having “come to jesus” thinking after reading them. Things I had never thought of. Keep that up! Ill go be my wallflower self now lol… carry on
NA,
I completely agree with you.
It is preferred a harsh,straight forward truth than thousand words of sugar coated falsity that some adopt just to be likeable.
This should be even more valued in this context by people who have been or are entangled with a narcissist.
Sometimes it is the price you have to pay for standing up and having your voice.
Do not lose your genuineness. It is far more honourable than the shifting faked untrue pursue of trying to be likeable.
NarcAngel
I get you and your humor. Don’t sugar coat anything for me; I take it rocks over rocks in a dirty glass.
Narc Angel,
You are a true warrior princess! Proof in point taken from your Narc letter, which I reread a few days ago where you outlined knowing exactly what kind of human your step-dad was during that first meeting and game of hide and seek. No one can stifle or stomp out your spirit or who you are, which is an amazing person. You most certainly need not be concerned if some here don’t take well to your comments, opinions or humor. You shine here!
Clarece
Agreed about NarcAngel. Her comments are a bright spot in my day! I’m always excited to see them (hope that doesn’t make her gag!) 😝
And you dear Windstorm are my Disney Fairy Godmother all wise, knowing and kind!
NarcAngel
“I have noticed it in other commenters as well-backing down on what they had to say or softening it as not to offend.”*
(*I quote people lately for reference because regardless of where I reply to, my responses tend to go to the top of the thread)
I agree with much of what you say NA. I have felt the need to scale back my comments at times. And the only reason I initially felt impelled to call crap out was when I was concerned that it fed into the very beliefs and misconceptions that can contribute to someone staying within the confines of an abusive relationship. And then I ploughed through because even if the recipient couldn’t see my point; that persons point of view mattered less than other people who might be reading
and who could benefit from the discrepancy being pointed out.
I don’t enjoy being confrontational — and the energy resulting from such confrontations makes me feel uncomfortable – but sometimes being put in a uncomfortable state of mind (in a *safe environment* which HG allows this to be) is what results in change.
And realistically; how many places can one argue fairly about Narcissism – and in the presence of a Narcissist?!
None, just here WC.
Thank you all for your thoughts. I heard you and a few things stood out. The most glaring, that sometimes people just want to be heard and not helped. As a person of action I needed to be reminded of this. I see that in my inability to change things in my own situation as a child, that I have transferred that into a need to warn and attempt to spare others that same fate, but because I am more logical than emotional in my thinking, my style is perceived as more confrontational, know it all, and intimidating than supportive. I reasoned early on that HG had the education and brutal unvarnished truth covered, and that the majority of the commenters were comforting and supportive to one another, so I would just cruise along injecting some humor where I could (I used to try so hard to make my mother laugh) and add my two cents here and there. I did not know that I would become so invested. I will read a post and literally say out loud: fight! or stop lying to yourself! while silently urging them on. Oh how I wish there had been a place like this for my mom and/or for myself. Its true that this IS the only place of its kind. A place where people can safely discuss narcissism and in the presence of a narcissist. I am very protective of it and that translates to some as me having a fixation with HG. I would like to set that straight right here. I have great respect for what HG has created here as a by-product to his own aims and I dont fool myself into thinking it is otherwise. I accept him as he is and that he will not change, so focus on how to better avoid or interact to my benefit with his kind because it is inevitable. I do admit to thinking that he would have made a kick ass brother to help my younger self but thats it. I get no benefit from referring people to a consultation other than I think it is where they will (ironically) get the most help for their situation. When I come down hard on people who fly in shitting all over the blog it is not to defend HG. He does not need me-he does just fine himself. It is because I care for and respect the guests here on the blog and it is like someone is attacking my family. I do not take lightly to people disrespecting this haven or spreading falsehoods or misinformation about it outside of here. I will take your collective advice to continue with my observations, keeping in mind to try to deliver them in a way that does not cause pain. Thats a tough one though because as someone pointed out-how they receive it is up to the recipient. I am here not to harm but selfishly because my 5 yr old wants to be heard, to cheer people on and witness them succeed where she could not. And to learn. I have learned so much about not only others but about myself.
Thank you all for listening while I got these things off my chest and for taking the time to comment.
Thank you HG for your brilliant writing and for creating a place of healing that no one could have imagined.
NA
Xx
You are welcome NA.
Hear, hear!!!
NarcAngel, I understand and agree with all you said! Maybe HG doesn’t need you (he doesn’t need any of us), but we need you. Your presence and comments and support of the innocent is very
important to me. I always picture you in your mask and cape, perched on a rooftop in the darkness watching out for the abused.
Hi Narc Angel,
I wanted to respond to your comment as someone new to the blog.
I have been reading the blog for a few months but only participating in conversations over the last couple of weeks. What I have observed is that the majority of people on the blog hold you in very high regard, and they respect you, your knowledge, your journey and what you have shared with them.
People’s view of you has given you a power ( whether you wanted it or not) just as their respect and regard for HG does.
So when you express an opinion or give advise directly to a person, this is likely to have a higher impact upon them based in their respect for you, and what you have to say. So this may be a reason why you have picked up on stronger responses or why you have felt the need to sensor yourself abit with other bloggers.
I see what you mean about the black and white thinking and this may be a factor. Although I think empaths have more colours available to them…. From my view I would take criticism from HG or yourself in the same way. It would depend on how constructive it was. I personally wouldn’t be ok with a narcissist or an empath being critical or unkind, without needing differentiation between a label of good or bad. It would still be down to me how I respond to that though.
To be honest I found you intimidating when I first started on the blog, due to what I could observe of interactions here.
I no longer feel that way, and I think our recent dialogue helped that, although I observed in myself that I did a lot of over explaining in order to advise on my difference in opinion on the article discussed.
Everyone is born with a level of sensitivity, and this directly effects the intensity/ degree of their empathic traits/ and I guess their narcissistic traits on the spectrum. I would consider myself to have a higher sensitivity, although over the last 15 years or so I would say this has reduced and I have more overall balance. However in some areas it is still quite high, so wanting to be understood, and not wanting to hurt others feelings are still high.. which is why I over explain and often state that my coment/ opinion comes from a place of good intent. – But that is who I am!
I believe that you should not sensor yourself or be anything other then who you are.
Everyone has their own lens / view, it is an individuals responsibility as to how they respond / react to what is said or done. Not yours as a provider of an opinion.
One of the most important lessons I have learned from a narcissist is that I was beyond naive, and I needed him to teach me that. I knew in the grand scale that there is malevolence in this world, I would hear horrendous stories frequently of abuse, and neglect. But I had not personally experienced it.
To a certain degree I thought that if I was good and kind, to all that I meet, that was likely to be returned to me. Naive and in a bubble…. ( quite sad /or lucky it took 36 years to learn this).
I have learned that I am responsible for how I respond/react. I am responsible for how I treat people and engage with them also, but I’m not responsible for how they react/ respond to me.
After another long explanation what I’m trying to say is just be who you are…. you know your intentions and that is good enough!
NarcAngel
Ha ha ha…You really are salty with a side of nuts!
HG
NA has made a compelling argument and I, too, am eagerly awaiting your article on the contagion empath.
It will appear. When I decide.
HG
Ha ha ha…damn straight and not a moment sooner. You really could use an extra set of hands.
You are not wrong, K.
I’m curious why does anyone need a purpose here? I come here for info but don’t feel a purpose.
People are always going to get bent when communication is only via text. Body language and tone tell us a lot and those are absent in text.
Just my opinion which is no more valid than anyone elses
No one has ever intimidated me here. Though I admit I did read HG for more than a year before commenting, and perhaps some trepidation played a part before joining in. But this blog would not be nearly as uplifting were it not for HG’s sense of humor, which I think puts many of us at ease.
There I go with the fuel again. Some have chided me for this, which is fair, I suppose, albeit if someone is being truthful or wants to pay a genuine compliment, this is a good thing. I don’t compliment those I don’t feel are worthy (my mid range coworker for example).
I have felt I have had to hold back at times, as I don’t want feelings to be hurt, but I mostly say what I want. I use humor to deflect tension and other shit, and also probably to stand out a little, as that is one of my narc traits.
Humor is something all can relate to, it grounds people and in person my jokes are often so bad they’re good. Ok, maybe not good. My coworkers certainly don’t think so, though I do see them laughing.
If you ever need a really terrible pun, come to me. I will likely have thought of it.
It is amazing how much I have learned from this site, not just about narcs but about myself, etc. I always thought empaths were the goody-goody types who watch romantic comedies and whine. Other than the whining part, that has never been me. I have come to learn there is so much more to what it means to be an empath, and feeling deeply is certainly not easy.
I continue to tell people that the best site on human relationships and emotional maintenance comes from a blog run by a Greater Narcissist Sociopath. They think I am kidding.
‘No, I am serious,’ I say. Then they ask me to repeat what I said.
Also too, from a writing standpoint, I enjoy HG’s use of words and I have even incorporated some traits into my own work. So HG could write about cold fusion and I’d still read it.
Ha ha thank you Bibi.
NA, your comment brought tears to my eyes. I was thinking about you yesterday, about the saviour empath you are and the frustration of the 5 year old girl trying to save her mother from abuse. We are all learning here, as you said.
😘
Hmmm this whole thread rather interesting lol
I don’t get the contagion empath concept.
Sarabella
Nor do I but I’m guessing thats because we havent been Tudorized on it yet.
I went back and read posts where he mentioned it, but it still isn’t clear to me.
But as a side… and something I will comment on the right post, something HG wrote in a reply to an email consultation clarified something that was getting lost in the translation on hoovering. I will talk about it when I find the right place to park it. It may be a nuance that others are also missing, too, because the idea just shifted for me.
Well Damn, welcome to the club narc angel. I think i will change my name to Narc Angel II. Covert, passive aggressive comments, not willing to move from black and white to grey area.
Homework for all, scratch that.. for some.
Google DEAR MAN skills. Once you grasp them which can take years. Move on to GIVE and FAST skills.
H.G. is and always will be an asset to my recovery. That’s why I continue to check in and to check myself. However, we can add additional tools to help us move forward in our healing process. I would be remiss not to mention Indy and Love for leading me to DBT.
Please don’t judge, I have yet to graduate from phase II.
Dont judge? Ironic.
Well, all emotional boundaries are ‘porous’ – meaning we’re all infecting each other. Concerts, work, relationships, etc.
I suppose that contagion empathetics have difficulty with limiting how the states of others affect their state? Most of us use empathy selectively and turn it up or down – like, in crowds or with people we don’t like. Maybe contagions can’t do that so easily.
Lots of people would call that Highly Sensitive People in discussions that aren’t focused on empaths and narcs. So that makes sense.
That is me in many situations. In certain environments, I ‘hear” too much. The noise of all the energy coming from people is hard to block out. I am somewhere in both of those, super empath and contagion. I think that energy is what drew me to a large crowd once, almost in a trance, only to find someone at the center of it, someone I met only once, 2500 miles away at some remote B&B in New Mexico. I just HAD to get to the center of the crowd to see a pottery demo someone was giving and it was the same potter I had met 2 years prior while traveling. When I saw him, I just got this warm glow inside… I knew. I knew something good was there. And he recognized me when I said hi. Its some wierd cross between telepathy/empathy that has led me to have many of these types of experiences in life. When its for pleaseant things, its great. When the energy of others is quite negative, its always been very hard for me to close myself off to it.
Iroll
I don’t know about other contagions, but I can’t regulate my empathy at all. It’s full on constantly. My only way to limit the impact of others emotions is to isolate myself. That’s the main reason I live alone in the middle of nowhere.
I’m too analytical to be a pure empath, weirdly because i have cognitive pathway erosion in my rational processing areas, but i’m rational and emotional. I’m also intuitive.
But all that can get in the way of actually empathising with others, which is a really beautiful gift. Some people recognise the emotions of others without needing to analyse – they just accept that person unconditionally. They’re generous, practical and kind – have a calming effect.
That’s not everyone at all, even though most people have empathy.
– Just my opinion.
Yolo
Are you talking about dialectical behavior therapy? The therapist did some cbt stuff with me. It’s like working out with your mind lol. I always felt like therapy was a spa for your emotions and that cbt and dbt were more like the gym for your emotions where you had to work out and get uncomfortable
I’d be interested in knowing how that’s going and I if you feel it’s really helped you ? Are you by chance a borderline. I know it’s used a lot in borderline
I have it. It sucks. You physically feel what others are feeling. I never knew this was a thing or that I was different for this.
I had a coworker who recently had conjunctivitis. Her eye was pink and runny. My eye began to tear up upon sight of it. It’s weird.
I felt the same way Windstorm! That’s one I voted for too. I didn’t realize we were rare. (High five + secret handshake) Of course, I’m sure we are on a spectrum.
Spoken like a truth empath though, I would rather for HG to write about topics that can help the MOST people. (And the gay blind whales too)
It’s more or less just validation anyway. I know what I feel. Believe it or not, I just learned last year from a post one of my friends put on Facebook that there is a such thing as an empath. And I’m in my 40’s! It was an aha! moment. I was like “oh, so that’s what’s wrong with me!”
MB
I believe the Contangon is on a spectrum and many will be able to relate. People are on a spectrum for emotional contingency so it makes sense.
I didn’t vote for the Contangon even thou I believe it will be insightful article.
I just found out I’m an empath too, when I discovered HG’s site lol I’m 43
Damn! Mine too, WS.
Windstorm
I just wanted to say thank you for some advice you gave me awhile back.
Twilight
Glad I said something useful to you!
Windstorm
Over the timeframe sense you have been here, your insights have made a difference.
Twilight
😊. Thank you. You have brightened my day!! And it was already Friday!!!
Windstorm
I hope you have a lovely weekend!
Twilight
You too! And to all mothers out there – have wonderful Mother’s Day! (Even if you dont celebrate it this Sunday!)
Windstorm
Thank you, I hope you had an amazing Mother’s Day!
I hadn’t planned on coming back here for a little while, can not sleep so decided to delete emails and saw this.
I have many changes happening in my real life at the moment that is bringing chaos once it is over things will settle….I hope. Yet I see a situation others do not, I have no control over it and must let it play out, preparing myself before hand so I do not lose my balance.
Twilight
I think you are better at balance than I am. I’m in the front end of a huge change that only looks ugly. Like you, I see it but those around me feel not. I need some equilibrium. All I seem to have are fear, dread and remorse.
I’m letting my fears paralyze me. I can see myself doing it, but it’s like I’m trapped in a box that I made myself (ha, ha! I imagine we’ve all been there!).
I’ll keep you in my thoughts – courageously seeking out a safe path thru your coming chaos. You will be my talisman and remind me that I must pick up my lantern and start searching my safest path as well.
Hello Windstorm
I was thinking of you today and a song came on the radio and made me think of your reply to me, which….thank you.
Here are parts of the song:
Staring down the face of fear
Gotta keep breathing
When the negative is all you hear
Gotta keep believing
Every scar on my skin
Is a beautiful reminder
Of a moment when I didn’t give in
And I walked through fire
Your a fighter hold your light up for the world to see and your path will be reveal and you will find your way through the coming storm.
My thoughts are with you as you face your storm.
Twilight
Thank you, friend.
Your welcome Windstorm
Your joy and pain are my joy and pain to….
Sometimes I want to speak of how I see things.
Time to shake that off and enjoy some up beat music 🎼
For me, yes, you are rare(r) but I didn’t choose it bc I think I fully grasp the concept. 💕
Both my 2 votes are 2nd and 3rd last. Dammit lol
WS, it seems that the poll is rigged anyway. Who knows, maybe the Maximum Leader will decide that the last three topics are actually the top three ones and we will read about the Contagion Empath sooner than we think.
I also wonder how much awareness narcs have because my narc said on several occasions I know your a good person in your deep he says it whenever I’m not painted black and I noticed now that I left him he always comments on Womans pics I see your beautiful but are you a good person in your deep its weird for a narc to ask that but its all.most like some part of him is aware he’s not good so he nerds to find and feed off empaths its lime he knows he nerds to find good WO.an not other natcs and that dhows awareness in my oponion
HG what is with the blocking ? They use that block button like a sword only to unblock you the block you again. What is the flippin purpose?
Context?
One context: they block you on an account that is new to them and one you never engaged with them on. And you hadn’t talked for a month at that time as it were. But you must have been on their mind for them to think about you to block you.
Are they wounded and warding of a potential attack from Super Empath who went Super Nova?
Sole purpose is fuel Id imagine.
I can see it would give momentary thought fuel. ‘THERE! I showed HER” But then, they have cut themselves off form any further fuel of any kind. This is why I would like to hear more about what happens after a Super Empath goes Super Nova. If the blocking wasn’t actually out of fuel, but out of pure woundnessnes and great fear of further wounding, this is why it can seem final to those of us in this boat. We did go volcanic. All earth was scortched. He blocks, maybe gets some sense of control back, some through fuel from that action… and then what???? just forgets about us? Moves on?
I can’t believe ipss isn’t winning. There’s always a million comments and questions on those threads because the dynamics are slightly different
Lori
Re: Millions of comments on IPSS
Aren’t most of them yours?
Bwa hahaha.
Ha ha.
This is a good one, NA but in Lori’ defense and support, I do make a fair contribution of IPSS comments. Too bad most of them are all about how the narc will not hoover me. Ha ha
No defence needed. The comment to Lori was humor. I figure she is a good sport and would take it as such.
Haha, NA. I share your thoughts.
Oh I do have a sense of humor but you can’t really tell via text. I’m the practical joker the smart ass all in one, but you can’t tell via text nor can I always tell on someone else via text
Hence why the narcissist loves the text message because things can be left up to interpretation one way or another. They love the ambiguity of it.
Theres always some sort of conflict on these pages I used to be on many of them when Narc 1 made his 13 year break return hoover. These issues arise because you have all of these people at various stages of narcisstic abuse colliding and everyone including myself can be hyper sensative depending upon what stage they are in. Just my take. I have read many many books on this and I never get enough of learning about this. It is fascinating to me. Anyone can analyze it to death but in the end the answer is always the same he’s a narc but that answer will only satiate once you really know and accept what they are
Well last I checked I don’t think I commented 200 x but maybe I’m a little slow with math
Oh good lord if it’s fhat big of a deal let me bow out. It’s blog where people are supposed to comment.
I have been thru this before. Whether you are an ipss ipps dlsipss in the end it doesn’t matter they are narcs and you are a victim. You may have been a victim or even a willing victim it doesn’t matter either way. They are narcs that’s all anyone really needs to know. The rest is pure curiosity
Lori
Dont bow out. I made the joke because I saw you as resilient and having a sense of humor. Its important that you dont lose it.
Dear HG,
If I am a NISS to a narcissist (I believe he is a UMRN or LGN) is the only way NC?
I was wondering if there was another way out without the narcissist turning me black and smearing my name?
Is it possible to slowly remove oneself without him noticing, and at the end have close to none and short interactions per year?
The NISS stands more chance of an elongated golden period and since the NISS ranks lower in the fuel hierarchy you could stage a gradual withdrawal, however it depends on the narcissist concerned (school) , the extent of the fuel matrix, how well you have your emotional thinking under control and other factors relevant to the hoover execution criteria. So in principle, yes, the chances of success will depend on the facts.
Yaaaaaaaaaaaay …… this is what I’ve been talking about
Thanks boss
When the clock strikes midnight. You never fail!
I have put through a vote for how the addiction arises, the interaction between narcissists and borderlines, (as the diagnostic criteria has some overlaps and I think this will be interesting to hear your perspective about how they interact ). I also voted for the contagion empath as I can’t remember seeing any articles on this, although I’m probably wrong.
I only have two of your books and I know I have not read all of your articles. Although I have read a lot in the 4 months that I have been reading your works … I like to learn but I have also developed a brain ache ….. I’m sure I will get there.
Thank you for all that you do HG..
I’ll echo one I’ve heard from others. Pieces where you give us the evidence and we practice spotting the N in a crowd or spotting the N type using the skills you taught us. (Or other practical application)
2: Any particulars that you know as to how Narcs behave differently cross-culturally, especially Ns from collectivist cultures.
3: The Narc life cycle. Childhood, adolescence, etc. Is there a final moment of choice when N gives up on fighting themselves?
4: More about the trance that Ns put people in such that they (From IPPS to tertiary) literally cannot see the Ns true nature. HOW do you hypnotize so skillfully???
I would like to know that too…..how to spot a narc in a crowd. You know whats interesting?! I did spot one in a crowd! He acted oddly, got right up in my personal space and asked for my number to tell me about events coming up. My gut told me he was off!!! But my boyfriend broke up w me, this narc moved right on in and charmed his way into my life as a new boyfriend!
In all seriousness, thanks for asking us. I love reading your stuff. I find it fascinating. As soon as I have some time I’m gonna get some of your books
Thank you.
Wait a sec. This looks like a democracy. I always thought this was a dictatorship lol:)
The poll is rigged, naturally.
Haha I definitely don’t think there’s any danger of cou de etat
In the narcs favor as per usual . . . gee, what more can we do to help you out today lol
Very clever and appripriate humour!
Hi HG!
I have really enjoyed your new series on dialogue examples between the Narcissist and either an IPPS or a IPSS. Those provide a great point of reference seeing a scenario unfold especially with using word salad, deflection, and gaslighting manipulations. I think others have found those really helpful too.
1) How to know 100% if he is a Narc.
2) Does he ever think/miss me?
3) Is there a way to make it work if you are married to a Narc?
1. Ask me.
2. Covered in an article already.
3. Yes – Get Out and Stay Out.
Truth seeker
You can make it work if you don’t mind be cheated on lied to and don’t mind giving up your identity, self esteem and self worth.
It has to be like that and it applies to all of them. They know no other way
Thank you HG. Your teachings are followed religiously and it has helped me to really understand the many Narcs I have come across in the last 20 years. Thank you very much.
You are most welcome TS.
TruthSeeker
When you have a chance read:
3. We miss you when you are gone
https://narcsite.com/2017/09/27/five-myths-about-the-narcissist/
I think your repetition of GOSO really drives home how absolutely hopeless any relationship with a narc would be. It is the ultimate validation and statement of how awful you are underneath.
sarabella,
My mind knows that what you and HG say is true, but my heart does not. I still wish everyday with all my might that it wasn’t real. Having no hope at all is not something I can easily accept.
HG,
I selected the interaction between narcs and borderlines. Do you have any books or posts that address that relationship?
Also, what do you think the prevalence is of empaths being borderline? I have some Borderline traits, but not all. Is there a particular type of empath that is more likely to be borderline?
I do not.
I do not know with regard to the prevalence.
Thanks, HG. I do hope to eventually know your thoughts on this dynamic. However, all of the topics look interesting and helpful, and I am eager to see what subjects are chosen after voting is finished, and to read more about them! Just for the record: others I selected are the Super Empath/Empathic Supernova, and the virtual/digital only relationships.
The Contangon Empath…..just kidding HG even thou I am curious on your perspective, given the accuracy of your work to date, I am sure it will be insightful.
You have answered any and all my questions either from reading your material, consultations, and being a guest here on your blog.
I did vote for 3 I would appreciate more in-depth detail.
Thank you HG for the time you take to provide us with the knowledge and answers so many seek.
You are welcome Twilight and thank you for your courteous message.
Thank you HG, you made me blush.
I think I am contagion but need more info. Didn’t realize we were supposed to only choose 3 but I chose 3. Somehow my intuition knows HG.
It was very hard to choose only three HG, I guess any future subject you will write about will be appreciated.
Thank you Lilly.
More about empaths, supernova and empathy, perspective taking, contagion, true empathy, theory of mind etc., and: How aware are narcissists of what they are doing?
Most of time I think narcs are oblivious but sometimes I wonder just how oblivious they are.
That’s a tall order K!
And re this:
“Most of time I think narcs are oblivious but sometimes I wonder just how oblivious they are.”
I wonder this too…mostly because of some of the choices my narcissist makes – things that fly just under the perspective of others (so to try to explain to others makes me look unstable) and actions that just within the realm of being legal but are so difficult to prove – or involve a lot of red tape…I can’t help wondering if he’s consciously doing it or if he’s taking advice from someone. It’s like he just barely pushes the envelope to see if I’ll react or get frustrated with him but it’s done in such a way that it can be explained away from certain perspective. I must admit I admire their persistent!
*persistence
WhoCares
I have been thinking about empathy more and I didn’t realize it was so complex. HG is a polymath and I think he can handle the heat.
There is nothing like a good dose of plausible deniability. Most of what they do is instinct, however, higher functioning narcs have a degree of awareness and HG is correct; they do not know why they do it. They are persistent and we are tenacious; a match made in Hell.
K, you have another list next to your elements … don’t you ?
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Arhhhh, luv ya to bits
Luv bubbles
Dearest Bubbles
Well, the adage: idle hands are the devil’s workshop, has some truth to it. Better to read than wreak havoc.
Luv
K
Mine = what is the self-awareness of narcs, addiction and BPD
The celebrity/famous people break down will have the most chance of ringing true with the masses. For me it’s all about spreading the word. Things need to change. Harvey Weinstein’s behavior is all over the news and everyone can point and look, identifying core traits that will ring true in other areas.
Writing about the Super Empaths will help that end of the spectrum understand why they act out of character. So many of my codependent friends are stuck feeling like they are the narcissist and if they do anything “selfish” they feel tremendous guilt. It drives me insane…. It was immense relief to learn that many of my behaviors were in order to survive. If empaths continue to feel guilty just defending themselves, they will never become offensive and take action before it becomes out of hand.
Thank you for asking, HG. Whatever you decide to write, I look forward to it.
Also about what happens when Greater encounters a psychopath since they both wear masks and are aware of what they are. Two Machiavellians to the core.
Ooooooh yes pls!!
Super empath
I’ve witnessed this, not often though. My father in law was a greater and shielded me from the psychopaths that he dealt with. When I was around them he watched them like a hawk and made sure they knew I was off limits. He very well may have been one himself. He came across as fearless and unscrupulous and not to be crossed. The psychopaths I saw backed away and toed the line around him.
My exhusband is a greater, but not a psychopath. He avoids them whenever possible. Whenever I’ve seen him around one he is quieter than normal and very watchful and gets away as soon as he can. My feeling has always been he knows just what they are and sees interacting with them as dangerous with no benefit for him.
We want more about The Creature
Following thread.
No surprise here. Top answers indicative of our truth seeking. He’ll never find the time to write about the Contagion Empath. Write about anything HG. Just keep writing!
Hi HG,
I have really enjoy your new series when you provide dialogue between a Narc and either his IPPS or IPSS. One with using an example of word salad that they use would be especially helpful and / or the Jekyll and Hyde scenario blowing hot then cold.
I also miss the more personal articles where you gave more insight on your dynamics with people. You rarely write anymore or recycle your articles about Karen, Caroline, Fiona (the neighbor), or the articles with your sessions with the doctors.
I’m still interested in hearing about you and your journey in all of this!
Thank you. There will be more of the dialogue style. The more personal interactions and the good doctors are being held for the books.
Thank you HG! By accident, it looked like this post disappeared and I thought I forgot to hit send so I reentered it. I was not trying to be redundant, just disregard the 2nd posting… lol
I love the dialogues because when your emotions are wound up when having a heated conversation involving word salad with a Narc it gets very difficult to run a checklist through your head and break it down line by line, is he doing this or that (?)…You don’t always realize the manipulation until reflecting on it later when things calm down.
A valid observation Clarece.
Dear Mr Tudor,
How do you feel about the “dialogue style” “personal” interactions.. are you comfortable with that ?
Kindly
Bubbles
Could you expand on what you mean, I don’t understand.
Hi Clarece:
“when your emotions are wound up when having a heated conversation involving word salad with a Narc it gets very difficult to run a checklist through your head and break it down line by line, is he doing this or that (?)…You don’t always realize the manipulation until reflecting on it later when things calm down.”
THIS!!!! I totally have that happen too, especially in arguments with my spouse. I often start out feeling rational, but mid-way through the conversation, it’s like HE is making sense and i feel like I’m the one engaging in word salad, because I’m so anxious and confused and cannot think straight. Have you ever felt that way?
Mary
@Mary Re: word salad. 100% true! It’s pretty common to feel that way actually. My strategy that, IMHO had at least modest success, was to intentionally find him boring while he talked. Anything of real importance always rose to my attention. Anything that was just “salad” flowed right over me like water in the shower.
Hi Mary!
Yes, for three years running with JN and while I would engage with him during his hoovers while learning here for part of that time because I struggled with accepting this was the reality of the situation and not wanting to mislabel someone incorrectly.
Here is an example… last fall when I left the blog for a period of time, I wanted to take a break from everything related to narcissism. Clear my head so to speak. Sure enough about a month into that JN resurfaced. As usual the first few days were always nice conversation. But I quickly grow weary of that and said he needed to inform me of “what capacity does he want me in his life (i.e. friend, lover, fwb, texting buddy, no contact). I gave him those options to choose from. All he had to do was pick. For 20 minutes, his side of the conversation revolved around me “living in the past”, the “mistakes he has made”, my “mistrust” of him because he does not show intimacy and I can no longer be physical with someone not willing to be intimate with me. My side of the conversation remained straight to the point,
“What do you want, JN?”
“Articulate what it is you want, JN.”
“You keep reaching out to me and I leave you alone. Do you want to see me”.
These are all simple, yes or no questions, right Mary?
Here is a direct text back I got to one of those:
“I’m letting go of the positive and in that I’m letting go of the negative at the same time.”
HUH?
So I replied that I opened up to him again 100% to communicate and compromise and I’m hearing that no, nothing at all will continue then.
JN: “I told you multiple times, why I felt I was reaching out to you all these times, and now I realize what I have to do. It’ll be tough, but at least it’s a direction.”
NO, HE DID NOT TELL ME WHY HE WAS REACHING OUT TO ME…EVER. Nor did he ever articulate what capacity does he want me in his life during this conversation after avoiding the question asked about 5 times. lol
What does he realize he must do? I don’t know. Still a mystery to this f’ng day.
So my response was, “You know for 2 years I’ve wanted to see you to clear the air. If that isn’t going to happen, I say no contact.” (Notice I’m still keeping it short and simple).
His response: “I mean, I’ve apologized so many times for so many things and you can’t even apologize for attacking me for no reason today. Crazy.”
And round and round it went for another 30 minutes with me even pointing out what a circular, meaningless conversation it ended up being.
His closing text was:
“There will never be a time where you don’t think of me or all the wrongs I did to you, and there will never be a time where I feel I can open up and share intimate things with you without fear of you using them against me. Those are just two death blows and I’m glad I’m finally seeing it.”
In retrospect, this conversation was complete word salad. I know I was indulging him even having the conversation and when you are in the throws of these exchanges, I’m not quite there yet where my brain processes and says “oh JN delivered a deflecting blow painting you black, crazy and blaming you for everything…respond this way…”
But I will sure as hell know for the next one who comes along. There’s been much more time and distance away from these exchanges and it is easier to pick out and observe it almost like two other people had this exchange, which is very helpful.
So yes, confusion, anxiety and completely deflated self esteem were the norm when dealing with him especially in the two years prior to finding HG and this blog.
You wanted to clear your head from narcissism, so you engaged with the known narcissist, having not maintained a solid no contact. There is an example of emotional thinking and as Clarece candidly sets out, you can see what it led to and the impact.
You, my friend, know some other details regarding my departure at that time.
Your welcome for candidly sharing the great in-field example of word salad.
Hi Clarece,
Thank you for sharing this. Your asking JN the short and to the point question, was very smart and reasonable and not in any way an attack. JN was just grasping for a way to make himself the victim. Thus, he defined your question as an attack. What a fucking jackass! The twisted crap he said to you pisses me off.
Also, the two “death blows”? Poor poor pitiful drama queen, JN. From the sound of it, he’s discarding you because he can’t take the heat of answering a question and being accountable, and trying to convince you it’s all your fault because you attacked him. I’m sorry he acted that way, and know it had to hurt when he twisted your words.
Now that some time has passed since that interaction, how have you felt? Have you been able to maintain No Contact since then? I stopped talking to my online narc over a year ago, and I still think about him every. damn. day. However, I do not crave him, but I still fantasize about him a lot. I know it’s not really him, but his persona. And even the persona was an asshole.
You said, “confusion, anxiety and completely deflated self esteem” was the norm. Yep, I can totally relate to that also. It was so often the case in dealing with my online guy. Being here, reading HG’s posts and the comments has really helped with being objective about the reality of that relationship, and it’s easier after the fog has lifted.
HUGS!
Mary
Hi Mary,
Oh yes, the “two death blows” he was having his a-ha moment to cut ties…the following week he was asking me to Skype…
As Sarabella said recently, I stopped the emotional pleading. The begging. The long texts or emails. The fighting for him or for his attention if he pulled away. When he’d get in contact, I’d frame it around one thing, he needed to face me and talk in person to tell me what he wants. He can’t deliver so I drop off and stay silent. Me asking to see him shuts it down asap. He can’t face me and he sure doesn’t do intimacy.
There were 2 more hoovers after October. One the day after Christmas. One in Feb. What was very different about Feb was tone. Sickingly charming. He reached out on 02/09, wishing me a happy birthday (my bday is 09/02 and is in my bday and Skype handle. He knows this) then pretending to be embarrassed he mixed that up.
But again it wasn’t received well, as I have his number deleted even though I recognized the digits. When I responded with “whoever this is, you’re way off. Bday is later in the year”, his responses sounded deflated. He had expected old Clarece to be all bubbly he was “remembering” my bday and reaching out.
The next week before Valentine’s Day he texted some hotel screen shots and offered to meet me. Said he “owed me” for not delivering in the past. I felt it was a setup and I just said I was busy for a few weeks.
This move made no sense. October and December contact was hostile. I knew he wanted to “push me off the cliff” again as HG describes.
So I rode it out for 2 more weeks. There was just occasional, superficial chit chat every few days through text. I noticed that anxiousness returning though. The why aren’t I hearing from him more if he offered to meet because he owed me?
So on March 5th I asked him about that hotel offer and what happened to that. Here it comes…
I got back, “I would love too, definitely, but the timing isn’t right. I’m seeing someone and we are serious. It’s been about a month”.
This is the 4th time he used the “seeing someone else” line over 4 years, but it never had traction.
He does have his first, legit girlfriend since before he met me.
I’m convinced if, big if, he had me face to face in a hotel he would have slept with me then immediately told me about the girlfriend to see me crumble. He also had tried to Skype one night and told me it would not be what I expect. This was a few days after telling him I was too busy to see him. I think he wanted to tell me he was dating and wanted to see my reaction. He never got to see anything because I refuse to Skype with him.
I told him this was the 4th time he has said he was in a relationship. Maybe it will stick, maybe it won’t. If it does, I know it will be her putting all the work into the relationship. When it comes time for intimacy, he will crack every time. (I hope that wounded him, if it even can).+
Then I blocked his number, and even figured out how to block emails. Social media has been blocked.
No way i will continue to have him try to position me as a future DLS or someone to triangulate with. I knew the whole attempt was because he didn’t like that I cut off in October and then I’ve stayed silent.
I feel pretty well detoxed from the physical craving addiction to be with him. That has made this so much easier to keep in perspective.
He is someone else’s problem. It’s been 2-1/2 months and no communication with him. It’s the longest it has been. I am at peace with that.
I did creep in April on social media and found out a little more about her. I saw a tweet saying she “met a wonderful man in January” and is starting a new job and both “will be very good for her in the long run”. That stung because I know what that golden period with him is like. I fought to get it back for 3-4 years. So we’ll see what her tweets are like in 5 years though. Lol I know i wont be involved in any more game playing or manipulations. The stunt he pulled in Feb…he will get bored and feel suffocated before the end of this year.
Sorry for the novel. I just always connected a lot with your story too and saw some similar parralels.
J:
That’s a really good idea, to deliberately zone out while he talks, not take the word salad in and try to interpret/analyze it. Will have to try it, thanks for sharing it!
Hi Clarece,
No need to ever apologize for the “novel” as I also connect with so many of the feelings you have gone through in your entanglement with JN! That anyone would ever sleep with you and then tell you something hurtful just to watch you crumble, proves that he is not worth the air he breathes. ( I know he didn’t technically do it, but he did enough twisted shit that it’s reasonable you would expect from him.) I could also easily see my narc pulling something like that too.
You also said “I think he wanted to tell me he was dating and wanted to see my reaction. He never got to see anything because I refuse to Skype with him.” Thank goodness you did not Skype. I’m seriously starting to wonder if it’s the same dude. My narc texted and sexted a lot, but he got to where he always wanted to Skype, so he could see me watching him. The last time we Skyped, he “called” before our designated time (to bulldoze my boundaries I’m sure), AND that’s the time he said “I bet you are a good kisser when you aren’t nervous.” It had been over six months since our one in-person meeting, where we kissed and I told him I’m kind of out of practice at real kissing. And he had continued kissing me, not mentioning a problem at all with it, but then he gives this backhanded comment about my kissing while we are on Skype (saving that insecurity) and he can see my facial expression change surely. It sickens me that I didn’t have more regard for myself than to still engage in that Skype session.
They really do love to watch our faces as they shove the knife in and twist it. It’s sick and demented. I’m so glad you are out of the fog with JN and feeling good about your decision. I think when it’s ongoing, especially before we know the person is a narc but sometimes even after we know, we just don’t want to believe the person we care about could be that cruel. We make excuses for them, but once we stop doing that, there is nothing left to hold onto.
HUGS,
Mary
Hi Mary! I need that hug! Thanks!
As far as those Skype calls go, of course they relish the reactions we give. There is an added layer of craving on our part because we’re wishing we could feel them. They can just watch and absorb every inch of what our bodies are doing. What a thrill without exerting much energy. Add in HG’s lure of the “danger wank”, and my God, who’d want to have regular missionary sex in a bedroom together anymore? lol
Don’t forget the allure of them watching us, taking it all in, getting us all worked up and still craving the ultimate consummation of this escapade, and then they control when it ends. No intimacy to deal with afterwards. The laptop goes down and fade to black.
I’ve read you say in different comments that you can’t believe how you allowed yourself to be degraded by him over time with the Skype calls. I try not to beat myself up over that. It starts off gradual. It seems enticing and exciting at first. It’s new and different and they present it as though it’s a way to connect when you can’t see each other, but there will be in person time together coming soon. Then they salami slice requests for these calls over time. I look back and the skype calls with JN started right before he moved away about 2 hours from me and it was also when my ex husband had his first baby with his new wife. I very much wanted to give our daughter a sibling JN knew this. It was his manipulation. “Show me where I can put my baby in you…” I was at a very low point and he figured out how to exploit that.
On the other thread where i said some things are unforgivable, he will never get my forgiveness. I will never pardon that.
Out of curiosity, do you ever think to yourself, “how the hell did I ever get so comfortable having those calls” (vs regular sex in person). lol
Dear Clarece,
I recall you mentioning that JN manipulated your longing for another child, but did not know quite what he said until reading your post here. What a horrible violation of sensitive feelings you trusted him with! Nothing but exploitation and using your vulnerability against you. He was A. SICK. FUCK. He deserves nothing but your silence, and I’m glad he’s getting it. (He deserves to be punched in the balls too, but for him that would be fuel.) I could never forgive him either. His comment was cruel, though I could imagine at that moment he said it, it felt more like he cared for you and wanted to give you a baby, than like a manipulation. Did it feel that way to you? (Only asking because my narc often said something which seemed loving or intimate at first, but I realized it was messed up after the sexting or call ended.)
You make a very good point about the added craving in Skype calls. I did wish I could feel my narc. That one time we kissed, it felt like he was going to devour me, and had never felt that kind of desire for anyone. It added so much more longing to the online fantasies.
You asked, “do you ever think to yourself, “how the hell did I ever get so comfortable having those calls” (vs regular sex in person).” I really loved the sexting above anything else, hearing the longing in his words. Also, if he said something off-color, I had time to come up with a comment in writing. The truth is I never got comfortable with Skype due to body image issues and just the fact that I was always nervous! My narc acted like he loved my body at first, but later on made smartass comments and digs (which he claimed were jokes). I learned here on HG’s page that the digs were actual intended provocations, and to trust my gut feeling that it was not a joke! I also did not like that he could see my discomfort if he said something twisted or triggering. One time in the middle of Skyping, he said he had to go to answer a call from his wife. He called back a minute later and we picked up where we left off. (It was no big deal to me, it’s his wife, of course he’s going to answer her call.) But hours later, we were texting and he kept asking “Did it bother you that I answered her call?” I said no, it didn’t. He kept asking though, and I never understood why he would think I care, but he kept saying “I hope you’re not upset.” Now I know. He *wanted* me to be upset! LOLOLOLOL It was just one manipulation after the other, plus attempted mind fucks that didn’t land. Looking back at it now, it’s almost funny, but at the time, it was so confusing. So many mixed and conflicting feelings.
Mary
Hi Mary,
You know what, I think a punch to his family jewels would be more painful then fuel, so I’m down with that. My close friends absolutely despise him for hanging that over my head. There’s no getting around being a dirt bag for doing that to a newly divorced single mom who genuinely cared about you. lol
The baby angle started much earlier before Skype calls ever took place. During the get to know you phase, I trustingly and openly shared about having struggled with infertility for 5 years when I was married, having a miscarriage first and then finally having my daughter. He knew right out of the gate how much I loved being a mom. All that was getting stored in the memory bank.
Several months later, when push pull games started and silent treatments from him that would stretch 2-3 weeks, one weekend in particular, he texted me at 6:00 a.m. on a Sunday morning. It was only a couple months after he moved away but he was back in town visiting alum friends from the University here. The text read “I know someone I want to make a Mamma Kitty.” I shot out of bed so shocked. That’s what he would do. We ended up meeting at my office because I was with relatives at my place. It created the illicit, spontaneous, electrically charged affair happening. I mean, Jesus, I’m looking at my desk now and he’s permeated and tarnished this space too. lol Long and short, the baby angle also equated to the most passionate, erotic encounters.
For about 6 months he would frequently sext about how well he would “perform” to get me pregnant and how radiant I would look carrying his child and it appealed to him no one else had desired him as much as me wanting his baby. He said he liked the idea of a part of him growing inside of me. We also had very hostile fights over this very topic though because I would get livid with his hot and cold, Jekyll and Hyde move to be this way then after the encounter, back to silence or minimal, aloof contact. I was furious with him for joking about it or using it as a ploy in the heat of the moment as a foreplay tactic. I would tell him, I equate telling someone you want to make a baby with being in love with that person. Keep saying it, that’s what I’ll choose to believe. He never stopped it. I did ask him last fall how did he know that would always have such an affect on me and he replied, “instinct”.
With regard to your Skype call where your Narc paused to take his wife’s call, there probably wasn’t even a call. It was a control move to see how would you react. Would you finish without him? Would you be angry? It seemed he was hoping you would get jealous and imagine how enticing that would look on the computer screen? He would hope it would make you “perform” even harder to keep his attention. JN pulled that number a couple of times.
I’m sorry yours made digs about your body making you feel uncomfortable during those calls. It’s the one space where JN was always extremely complimentary about appreciating mine. But that is probably what got me more pliable with that form of intimacy over time with him. Yours was definitely appealing to your sense of needing to hear you were desired. He probably assumed your marriage reached a point where words weren’t used much in that department. That was his hook. Then it was just a matter of did he want to play nice and be complimentary or play mean and provoke you and watch your reactions getting confused or hurt. And it doesn’t get any more exposed or vulnerable when you’re completely bare mind, soul and body in front of them but you can’t touch.
I would like three additional things interview with a narc where a lucky reader gets to interview you interview with an empathy were u pick readers to interview if they agree and decode this text were we get to send snippets of text messages and u decode them from the narcs viewpoint
I am open to being interviewed by a reader.
The decoding I do through consultation already.
Fun!!! Good idea.
That would be a cool interview. I know what types of questions id ask but they may not be as well recieved. I like to dig deep into the topic of narcissism and its roots.
Id be interested in seeing what would be asked by fellow readers.
Id really love to see some mock training sessions and testing on them where scenerios are given and you have a set of given reactions and responses in which we find out the best course of action. It is a mock training bc you cant know for certain the outcome as every narcissist is different even two from the same school etc.
You know I’m always up for firing rounds of questions at you!
That would be very interesting! Doubt HG would do it tho.
See my answer above!
This is interesting, yet how many empaths would want to be interviewed by HG if chosen. That is how I understood part of Ugotit comment.
Yes that’s what I meant twilight I would love to see the back story on the readers who are willing to give it how they were ensnared how they left etc etc
Ugotit
I believe it would be insightful for the empath.
I thought the reader would interview him, but him asking the questions would be interesting as well. Either way is intimidating!
The reader would interview.
MB
There was three scenarios
The first interviewing HG
The second HG interviewing a reader
The third decoding text
I believe it would insightful to have HG interview reader/s.
Twilight,
Do the HG wants to know polls count as him interviewing us? Kinda sorta.
I wonder who has the guts to dare interview the malign dragon. I would like to nominate K or NarcAngel
MB
I believe both K and Narc Angel would be excellent candidates, both are intelligent, have a sense of humor and from two different schools. For HG to interview if all parties agreed. At least this is what I believe you meant by your reference to both these amazing ladies.
HG has been interviewed many times all of them have been amazing and insightful, so another reader doing such I would expect the results would be the same.
Dragons are always associated with darkness….there are dragons of the light lets not forget them.
I won’t be interviewing readers.
The fact you see a bigger picture with dealing with those we do, sometimes a question shows brightly on an answer. And many here have been reading your material yet can not put two and two together, I believe the correct question will show them just what you have been patiently repeating and this will help them in discovering it so it stays with them.
No I do not believe K or Narc Angel has this issue. This is just one of many ways I took this.
I just saw another way you can help a person to see the answers your work provides.
I know you are not a healer, yet you are very good at weaponizing empaths.
Thank you for your time in letting me voice my thoughts on this. You said no, end of story.
Happy Friday y’all.
I was only expressing my admiration for these 2 ladies as having the guts to do the ASKING OF QUESTIONS to HG. (And with K being the resident librarian, she could cover a lot of material!).
When I say INTERVIEW him, apparently it is causing confusion. I never thought HG would be asking questions of anyone other than the polls, which are awesome btw!
MB
I just ran off on a different path for a moment.
Like I said he has done interviews before and I would go with many of us have listened to them and they were insightful.
In that case I would have to agree with both K and Narc Angel and would add Clarece. I have read some of her questions from long ago.
I do not believe I am a good fit for the position of interviewing HG.
Narc Angel
Why?
Narc Angel
Don’t be so modest.
Your views are unique and I am sure you would come up with questions he has yet to be asked about narcissism. Which could be a challenge for him, to which I understand he enjoys.
I do know NA would not ask me, “will I be hoovered?”.
No joke, I believe she made that loud and clear.
HG
Haha. Well there you go-no hoover questions indeed. Supports my assertion of not being a suitable candidate representative of the majority.
Narcangel u would be suitable when I proposed the idea the goal would be that the person interview hg about himself and also narcissism in general but mostly about himself but definetaly not about their own personal situation its an interview of him not a personal consultation I hope he finds the time to do this and I’d be happy with whoever he picks but at the end of the day its his site so he can do whatever he wants I’m just happy he let us make suggestions
NA
It would awesome if we could interview HG like The View. Five empaths from the different schools asking questions via Skype. it would be a riot.
What’s The View?
Omg K! I’ve been waiting for this moment! Something HG doesn’t know about. Sure, it’s an American daytime women’s talk show, but a small victory nonetheless.
Take your victories where you can MB, it is not a gap in knowledge that concerns me!
You know so much about so many things HG! I’ve wondered if there was anything you didn’t know and if so, what it could possibly be. It was a sincere compliment. I am truly astounded by your brilliance and have told you so multiple times. I hope that’s the way you took it.
MB
You crack me up! HG’s response made me giggle and your response to HG was excellent. No doubt about it; you are an empath. Your comments, to both HG and Twilight, had a sprinkle of mea culpa with a helping of The 7 Sins of the Empaths Self-Doubt.
K
Guilty as charged! Guilt being one of my worse sins. I feel horrible shame if I think I have disappointed or hurt someone. I want everybody to like me and think I’m “nice”. Notice HG doesn’t say anything to make me feel better when I say I spend too much time worrying about people who don’t even care if I’m alive. So telling! HG would crush me like a grape and not even have to try.
MB
It is my job to make you feel better and tell you to stop worrying about what others think (including HG). If people don’t like you, too bad, that is their problem; not yours. Just be who you are. You didn’t do anything wrong so that guilt and shame needs to go asap. It is an empath curse!
HG’s give us the information, advice and tools that will set us free. He isn’t wired to be warm and fuzzy. He leaves that up to us empaths.
K
You are such a sweetheart. My mind knows what you say is true and I wish I could be that person that doesn’t give a crap about what anybody else thinks. Shame and guilt are my constant companions. They do need to go ASAP, but I don’t know how. They are a part of me as much as my blood and my bones. I don’t know what purpose they serve in my life, yet there they remain all the same.
Thank you, MB!
Read this article and, if you have read it, please, reread it. Repetition really helps.
https://narcsite.com/2018/04/09/you-wear-guilt-6/
I found these articles below on Google. When you have a chance please read them. I think they may help you look at guilt and shame differently.
Emotions are wonderful and serve many valuable purposes, however, when emotions take over, and you lose balance, they become your own worst enemy. You deserve to be happy and free.
https://blog.iqmatrix.com/eliminate-guilt
https://liveboldandbloom.com/06/self-confidence/8-strategies-for-overcoming-shame
Thank you K. You are a plethora of information and I will certainly re-read the guilt article (it was a punch in the gut the first time as I really relate to it) and is a sure sign I need to read it again and again. I will read the external links as well.
I wish we could be friends IRL. That goes for others here as well. This is a wonderful group of intelligent and caring individuals.
Hell, we may even discover we know some of the same Narcs if we could speak privately. Wouldn’t that be funny!
Thank you for all your help and sweetness.
M x
You are very welcome, MB
I hope those links can help, if not, keep googling until you find articles that make sense to you. Try to remove the emotion and look at it logically.
I wish we could all meet IRL too! Imagine a bunch of empaths together…so much genuine kindness and empathy. None of that manufactured-fake-mirrored-bullshit empathy.
Hi K,
There was a handful of readers the first year that used to talk about having a Tudor Summit in Vegas. It’s a matter of luring HG out of hiding. lol
If HG maneuvers into the consultant / advise relationship niche and holds conferences / speaking engagements someday, who better to invite than his original group of followers from here!
Clarece
Las Vegas is perfect! What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. That place is a buffet of narcissistic delight. It would be an epic place for a Tudor Class reunion.
We could do missing camera pics!!!! Warning naked body parts!!!
P.S.
And we could throw in a few Tudor Ted talks and some conferences, too!
HG
Created in 1997 by veteran journalist Barbara Walters, “The View” is a daytime talk show hosted by women — including Whoopi Goldberg, Joy Behar, Paula Faris and Sara Haines.
I used to watch The View when Barbara Walters hosted and I liked the debate and celebrity interviews.
Sounds hideous.
It is….just my opinion
I concur twilight.
HG
Ha ha ha…it wasn’t too bad when Barbara hosted. I prefer Frontline and 60 Minutes now.
I didnt mind the panel forum of The View, but I have never understood the appeal of Whoopi Goldberg or Barbara Walters in any capacity much less interviewing. Now imagine it with Diane Sawyer or Christiane Amanpour (who would both rather drop dead) lol.
NA
That is why I suggested the panel forum so people would feel more comfortable, however, I would be fine with interviewing HG in tandem with you or one-on-one.
https://youtu.be/ChuAQZWhJyQ
Noted and thank you.
Your welcome HG.
It’s all good Twilight. If I’m being honest, it was HGs comment that made me feel the need to clarify. I have an overwhelming need that he not be displeased with me or consider me ignorant as not to know what an interview is. Sick, I know. Narcs are my weakness and I realize I spend far too much time and mind space on people that could care less if I’m even alive. Maybe I’ll get to a healthier place at some point.
MB
I understand.
I am sure he understood your meaning and it was my running in a different direction, he stopped it before it went farther.
Leading people in a direction that would not be productive is not my intentions and grateful he made it clear what he will not do. Besides he is not a healer and that is what a healer would do.
You will get to that healthier place. Don’t be to hard on yourself, we all go at our own pace.
Thanks Twilight! I would go head in Barbara Walters / Diane Sawyer / Katie Couric style…lol
Clarece
You welcome! I can see you doing that.
Thank you for your kind words, MB!
We could make it like The View: empaths from the different schools sitting at a table interviewing HG via Skype. It would be epic!
Twilight, don’t lose hope! People, even narcissists, sometimes change their minds. Or even hearts (aka. stones)!
I mean, who knows? Maybe one day HG wakes up and says, “Ah, yes. This blog is getting to small for me, let’s launch an international magazine, like Knowing The Narcissist Newsweek.
Then you can get a cover feature, I am sure!
SN
I don’t think so, the spotlight looks magnificent on him. I prefer going unnoticed.
I get what you mean, Mrs T! Don’t ever think you wouldn’t deserve it though! Please?
SN
Thank you.
It is not a matter of I don’t think I would deserve the honor of such an idea only that I am aware of my strengths and my weakness.
I am a healer and need no recognition like that.
HG on the other hand can convey information to the masses and better suited for that job and one I encourage.
Thank you for the compliments, Twilight!
I love positive fuel! It makes me happy. The interview could be modeled after The View with 5 empaths representing the different schools. That could have potential. However, I would do it with NarcAngel, as well.
Dragons of Light: everything you do is driven by the light within you and the light you see in others.
Hello K
Your welcome.
This would be fascinating!
What types of questions would you like to see in the interviews – to HG and to the Empath?
I’m trained in discourse analysis and could help decode. Setting up an interview takes work, it depends on what subject focus is. It’s very hard when questioning someone, not to create false information through supplying the answer, prompting and mirroring – and i imagine that to be even harder with someone who manipulates as second nature.
So, most interviews won’t deliver as much exposure as you may think.
I would see, for eg. there being a predefined scripted guideline for discourses on narcissistic abuse that the ‘community’ follows, which enables people to communicate meaningful information with each other – and i am sure that HG is more aware of it than an outsider like me, would be. Not to say that he is not adding his own original information, but the script would be how people interpret it, as opposed interpretation via a clinical context.
So decoding language is tricky because you also need to decode the context, which is always ‘intersubjective’.
An example of someone intelligent, but naively breaking the ‘moral script’ of a subculture is the woman who interviews Tom Cruise’s Pick Up Guru character, Frank, in the film Magnolia.
He is in my opinion (interpreting HG’s terms), an upper lesser who uses a ST on her? He says “I am quietly judging you”.
This is also why HG has particular rules of conduct for his consultations, so he won’t be triggered.
Respect the cock!
The rules of conduct are nothing to do with me being triggered, but rather to ensure a professional engagement where expectations are appropriately managed.
co-parenting with a narc who turns the children against the other parent. This has got to be the most difficult thing one has to do. There is no going nc, and the child is on the narcs side.
Yes
If I could, i’d give two votes to familial narcs and one to narcs at the workplace (which is not in the list, I know).
Narcs in the workplace has a book dedicated to it, hence why it is not in the list, the book is currently being written.
Which one please? Did I miss it??
The clue, Flick, is in my answer.
Oh, I didn’t know about this book. Great! Thanks HG.
Then I give my three votes to familial narcs.
Ha ha.
Bahahahaha! That’s probably why I can’t find it…..I must learn to read things properly!
Ha ha.
Oh gosh can’t wait for that one. I’ve worked for a couple of Narcs
Oh, that’s good to hear! Go write!
Itll be a good read once its out! Workplace narcs are the most frusterating bc you cant walk away you have to learn to put up with and work with these people. How do you stand up for yourself and maintain your values yet try to pacify and get along without having to be a moocher? A lot of questions in this area.
Cannot wait to read this, HG!
Narcs in the workplace…interesting, as I want to resume my career and I must accept that openly confronting half of the narcissists in a company doesn’t help me a great deal. I must learn some strategies from you so I can quietly neutralize them. Ignoring them won’t work, it will only raise their guard.
I voted: “Why the narcissist cannot be cured” as I still believe all people can change IF they really want (“You may say I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one”, John Lennon).
I have a smarmy upper mid range douche I work with, albeit to his credit he hasn’t said much to me lately and has been behaving himself.
But this past week I overheard him speaking to his coworker pal and he speaks like a teenager…’fuck yeah, I was like….tight skirt….so hot…she was so…fuck I wanted to…’
He is so disgusting! He has no idea I am as fun loving and humorous as I am. He thinks I am a cold, repressed uptight prude because I give him zero fuel. ZERO.
I want to read that book!
Bibi… was he talking about you in that way or someone else?
Julie:
No, he wasn’t talking about me that way. I do give him credit at the fact that when women are around he does tame himself, but when he is standing around certain male coworkers it becomes a dude frat boy party in the way he speaks about women.
I just happened to be around the corner and could overhear some whispers and he was talking about some woman—I don’t know who and it doesn’t matter.
One could argue that it’s just ‘guy talk’ and whatever. We women say a lot of shit on here that HG has to listen to, but I don’t know…there is something gauche about doing that in the workplace, esp. when you know there are women around.
I think he thinks I am an uptight prude who never has any fun, largely because I don’t bow to master intellect (he is a cerebral narc) and nor do I laugh at his jokes.
I am generically and forgettably pleasant around him and that is all.
Bibi…
I understand what you are saying. There is a time & place for “frat boy” behavior and the work place is not one of them. It opens the door to too many problems and lawsuits. I have a narc male at work also and he just thinks he is the cats ass too. He used to hit on me and I ignored it so now Im painted black. Black is my color anyways LOL!!
Famous narcs digital relationships and the contagion empathy but I.originally picked nine
Female narcissists. I call her my Black Widow spider.
James!!! I didn’t know u were on here. Welcome.
Hey spiders are cool and far more useful for the world than these narc bozos. Don’t insult them. 😛
I’ve just inundated HG with a slew of comments b/c this thread is so ballin’.
James, Maybe the good doctors will treat a greater elite female narcissist that would be a brilliant author willing to disseminate. What? It could happen!
Aside from that, I’m afraid you won’t get access like you do here from the female POV.
I would assume many of the behaviors are identical and there is still insight here you won’t find anywhere else. I see women as more manipulative than men to begin with and men sitting targets, even without the narcissistic dynamic in play. Add that in, I’m sure it could get ugly real fast.
I wish you the best.
The Contagion, but I’m in the minority, thus far (last place!)… thank you for asking.
So many great topics! I chose the contagion empath, famous individuals who are narcissists(and were…love historic individuals) and interaction between narcs and borderlines.
I seen mentioned narcissism in the workplace and think that would be a very helpful one! These narcs you cant go no contact with which is tricky in itself.
Narcs in work place, narc avoidance (dating wise) , emotional thinking , growing up with narc parents
1. That will be covered in a book.
2. I address that through consultation given the bespoke nature.
3. I address that through consultation given the bespoke nature.
4. Would be within familial.
Ty HG.. when i get a chance i plan to consult. 16hr work days currently but hoping to be able to soon
I have officially entered a status of ‘excited uncertainty/escalating tension’ regarding this poll results.
Can’t wait to find out which subjects HG will be writing about.
Emp.. im with you. Dosent matter because we can all take something away in knowledge about every article he writes.. i read it all! Im sponging everything in. Cant go wrong with any of them really!
I would like to read more about HG Tudor. His journey to this point, any effects that this process (therapy with the doctors, blogging, and interacting with empaths outside of his personal life) have had on him if any, and what he sees the future as holding for him. I know he will say: Wait for the books NA, but I fear they will never come to fruition if he has to keep assuring people about bloody hoovers every day.
Like a good empath I chose 3 as instructed though. Sigh.
Thank you NA. I did not include any options about me and my journey because that will be covered in separate dedicated books, rather than article, but thank you for raising it nevertheless.
Ditto on your sentiments NA!
Looking at your pic I can’t help but notice how radiant and glowing you are I can only imagine how narcs would circle u like sharks and I don’t mean it as an insult just an observation
Insult? Are you kidding me? Hello World! Let me introduce you to my new best friend, Ugotit! A ray of sunshine that will always make you feel pretty! 😉
Hi Clarece
Always nice to see you.
NA.. Im with you on this subject wise however it would take a year for me to read it due to the fact I just started revenge and got to the kate story and had to take a break. Hit too close to home. But I would SO read it if he should ever write it!
Lol! <3
What is the creature and how did it come to be?
That will be addressed in the book, The Creature.
Yes! This is a topic I’m very interested in too. I’m looking forward to the book HG.
Famous individuals who are Narcissists, i.e. Gerry and Kate McCann.
omg they so totally are!
Too many famous people and politicians, both past and present to even begin mentioning. Too many cultural and social influential people, men and women in power are narcs. There will need to come a time when empaths will need to stand up where their are too many narcs. Cuz planet earth is in a world of trouble. Once the earth was ruled by dinosaurs. Humans will become extinct, too. Life goes on in some form or another.
About famous, why does Trump describe all of his interactions with people as “Beatutiful!” “Great” “Wonderful”, just “Fantastic” Does he believe those words? Are they serving as mini Love Bombing words? See, I love people, I am a people person, I appreciate and admire otheres, I recognize other people and their greatness… until he tires of them, smears them on Twitter and discards them. I read a piece recendly talking about how is discards are getting more rapid. The cycles happen quicker and quicker. That his world is in total shambles and chaos. What happens when a narc like him loses total control? Is he decompensating at all? Its easy to erroneously peg his insanity as that (collapsing, fuel overload, full on fuel addict mode), but its also part of his racket. So it’s hard to see what might really be going on.
Phrases to counter veral attacks from all schools of the NARC.
Great topic! Go to comebacks. I always think of them after lol
Great idea, Patricia.
Yessss!
poetic revenge…
Famous individuals (or even tv/movie CHARACTERS.) – Would help me relate behaviours/likenesses , to ppl I know
Clash of schools – or rather, more distinction between schools , or more defining characteristics, as I know two ppl who have several traits from the ML, UL, and LMR schools!
Plus the ex MMR/UMR , again, qualities of both, and also some greater qualities,
I’d just love more distinction if possible
I’d also like to see more about Narcs in the workplace and how to deal with them
Yes. Me too. Without sucking up. Please.
Yes no brown nosing 😄
Hi Flick
I agree. How to deal with Narcs in the workplace would help many
Hope you are well and off your back now.
Lol!! I’m ok thanks – back still bad though and still wishing I was earning the same money but living in Madeira and working from home in the hours of my choosing…other than that…I’m fab!!
How are you?
Flicka
Start with drinking madeira at home. Baby steps. Im fine thank you. Continuing to work on having more confidence as ever.
Hey NA! It never occurred to me that you were not confident! You come across as very confident!
Flick
And it never occurred to me that you would fail to recognize friendly sarcasm but there it is lol.
A case for lol.
😂😂😂 I’ve been off this site for too long…….my god I can be a fuckwit sometimes 😂😂😂😂
Me too 🙂
It is intersting to watch two narcs in my office. They talk all the time and do not let others to talk more than some minutes and that too when they are answering them.. They back stab others and look busy and do nothing. Only these two are allowed to work from home. Such is the power of manipulation. Give their work to others to do with charm. Feels like it is a honour to work for them 🙂 – such is their sense of entitlement. It is a never ending list.
I love your articles when you tell some stories from your life or others.
I have 2 in my office.. I just grab the popcorn and sit back when they go at it with eachother. Quite the ridiculous scene LOL
I have a few narcs in my work setting and then there are the highly narcissistic that act as lietenants and flying monkeys. I try not get involved and let them hang themselves. Ive already seen one lietenant devalued and triangulated with another. They are owned by the narc so what do they expect?
Im fortunate in that i dont have to closely work with the higher up narcs. I feel for those that do bc it makes their work a stressful place. Its not just about doing your job its also a job in itself dealing with the narcissists.
My hubby works in a pool of shark narcs. He could use this book very badly. Its terrible to deal with these sorts but a reality.
One of his collegues does as mentioned above he smooshes the narcs in high positions and in return they turn a blind eye to his lazy ass while others are doing his work. Its disgusting. Then on top of it will gloat about how hes out playing golf or doing renos on his house on company time. Very bothersome. Life definitely is not fair!