How To Make A Request of a Narcissist

 

HOW TOMAKE AREQUESTTO A NARCISSIST

The most effective approach when dealing with our kind is GOSO, namely Get Out, Stay Out and do so through the imposition of a robust no contact regime.

The value of achieving this means it is often worth making certain sacrifices in terms of having that final word (see The Last Word ), writing off money owed to you, kissing good bye to that gay unicorn sculpture or even hoping for some kind of explanation as to what has happened. The benefit of achieving no contact will often outweigh trying to address those outstanding matters. Keep in mind also that not only do our kind not provide you with closure ( Closure Denied ), will not give you answers and also use any interaction to future fake and give you false hope, we also utilise outstanding issues (money, possessions, payment of bills etc) as the maintenance of Ever Presence and as Hoover Triggers. The attempt at a successful no contact regime is littered with the residue of the narcissistic entanglement.

Nevertheless, there may be occasions where you feel it is necessary to make a request of our kind in order to seek some kind of outcome or resolution. This requires careful evaluation to determine whether it is a step worth taking and if it is, how should this be effected? Here are some dos and don’ts in respect of how to make a request to a narcissist. Keep in mind that these points are not stand-alone and impact on one another in terms of the overall outcome that can be achieved.

  1. The first significant point is to take heed of the very title of this article. Make a request. Although it may sicken you to have to be polite and civil to us after the way you have been treated, if you make a demand you will get nowhere. In accordance with our need to always maintain control and the upper hand, making a demand of us is the proverbial red rag to the bull. Dependent on how this demand is made, it will either be Challenge Fuel ( so expect us to provoke you to get more delicious negative fuel and we will respond in an intransigent, obnoxious and obstructive manner to this demand) or it will wound us and thus you will ignite our fury. This latter response will mean your demand will be dead in the water and you will be subjected to either heated or cold fury. No matter how much it pains you, do not use phrases such as

“You have to do this”

“You must pay me immediately”

“If you do not do this then…”

Instead, you should utilise phrases including

“It would be appreciated if you could….”

“I hope that you might be able to….”

“Would you be so kind as to….”

We baulk at being commanded to do anything, since we are the doers and not the done to. No matter how right you may feel about making a demand, no matter how justified or entitled you may be, resist the temptation to couch your interaction with us in such terms.

2. Timing. This is crucial in terms of maximising the potential for success with your request. Naturally any request made to us during the relevant golden period is highly likely going to meet with success but that is of little help to you. You are not likely to be asking for your antique banker’s lamp back during the golden period or requesting that the utilities’ bills be settled promptly. Your request is usually going to be made post-escape or post-disengagement and it is in those instances that the issue of timing becomes paramount.

a. Do not bother with making any request in the immediacy of your escape from our kind. By immediacy I mean the first month post escape. Your escape will have meant that you have been deemed to be a traitor. If you make the request during the Initial Grand Hoover (our concerted attempt to pull you back under our control and into the Formal Relationship again) then it will only be seen as further evidence of your treachery. If you want money to be repaid, that not only signals to us that you have no interest in coming back to us, but making such a request will either be Challenge Fuel or Wounding. If you make your request following an unsuccessful IGH, if we do not have a replacement IPPS (assuming that was the position you held) then your request will in all likelihood be agreed to on the basis of you returning to us. Do not fall for it. This will be a future fake. We will agree to returning those items if you come and see us (so we can apply more pressure to draw fuel from you etc) but the return of the possessions will not happen.

b. If you become aware that we are pursuing a new IPPS interest and that is in the early stages (first few weeks of the pursuit) then do not bother making your request. You will remain painted black, seen as a traitor and also we will be concerned that you are trying to make us look bad in front of this new prospect. Furthermore, our inherent wariness will mean that we will treat the request with suspicion, regarding it as a Trojan Horse for the purposes of you trying to inveigle your way back in to wreak havoc on our new golden period.

c. If we have an embedded IPPS and all is sunny in paradise in Narcworld, this is your optimum opportunity to acquire a favourable outcome. The reason for this is that we will be far more secure in our golden period with this new IPPS. Furthermore, the maintenance of the façade of us being kind, decent and honourable will be of importance and whilst there is no absolute guarantee that we will acquiesce to your request, your chances are much greater. We want to be seen as magnanimous, that we bear no grudge, that we have moved on and we want to show the new IPPS (and members of the coterie) that we can exhibit benevolence. Of course there will be limits to this largesse, but by approaching us at this time and adopting the other points in this article then you will increase your chances significantly of a favourable outcome.

d. If we have dis-engaged from you, you have been painted black also. In all likelihood there will be a new IPPS and therefore in terms of timing you should pay heed to the above points.

e. If we have dis-engaged from you and there is no IPPS (as far as you can tell) there will be no point making the request because you will remain black because we have chosen to dis-engage from you with no IPPS to bolt on. Such a step may well have been taken as a consequence of total treachery on your part – exposure or massive wounding – and therefore any request made at this time will be met with being ignored at best and horrendous malign hoovers at worst.

Timing is most important and you need to be able to recognise where we are likely to be at with regards to our dynamic with other appliances before making your quest,

3. Do not make the request in person. No matter how hard you try to remain neutral, by appearing in person before us, you will provide us with fuel through what you say how you say it, the tone of your voice, your facial expression, the look in your eyes and so forth. This means that we will give the appearance of considering your request but all we will focus on is either gaining more fuel from you or pulling you back into the Formal Relationship (dependent on when this happens). Even if you make the request when we are at 2c above, your appearance in person will defeat the request because we see the opportunity to gain fuel from you (either positively by agreeing and future faking you so you keep revisiting us or by provoking you to give negative fuel) as far more important than looking good for the appearance of the façade. Keep in mind also that your emotional thinking is far more likely to govern your responses if you are with us in person and this will result in your providing automatic responses which will go against your aims.

4. Do not make the request by telephone. Although the quantity of fuel will not be as great as if you made the request in person, there is still a decent quantity to be obtained and we will seize on that opportunity rather than focus on making us look good by agreeing to your request. By speaking to us, you are again more likely to give us fuel and also to be governed by emotional thinking as we goad you – be it for positive or negative fuel.

5. Do not make the request by text message or social media message. You will end up clipping your message in a way which will make it appear like a demand. It is also easier for us to ignore.

6. Always make the request in writing and that means either in an e-mail or a hand-written letter. Why do this?

a. Evidence. Your request is not guaranteed to meet with success but where it eventually leads to (perhaps police involvement or through the courts) will be boosted considerably by having this evidence in place and not having to rely on oral evidence.

b. Best Front Shown. You will be far more considered, logical and restrained in a written request than one made in person or by telephone. Keep in mind that some of our kind will film/record you and use edited ‘highlights’ to discredit you when you become angry, frustrated or exasperated.

c. You will be able to take your time in composing the most effective request. You will be able to reflect on it, remove as much fuel as possible, avoid anything which would be construed as demanding or wounding and maximising effectiveness.

d. Even if you do provide some fuel, the written word conveys the lowest quantity by reason of the absence of hearing the tone, seeing the facial expressions and so forth. The written word may be emotive but it is low in terms of the quantity of fuel and may even just be Thought Fuel based on how we consider you to have been when you wrote the correspondence.

e. Building a ‘paper’ trail. If the request is not agreed to and you therefore have to use a formal channel – complaint to a body, commence litigation or use the police for instance, the fact you have created a paper trail will move matters heavily in your favour.

7. Never plead, cajole or threaten. This will cause us to scent there is fuel in the offing and/or wound us and therefore we will focus on the fuel/healing the wound you have caused and your request will be forgotten about as we go off on a different frolic.

8. Provide some flattery but do not go overboard. It is acceptable to write in terms such as

“I know you are a reasonable person”

“I know you are the right person to assist with this matter”

“I know you can resolve this for both our benefits”

Note the use of “I know” and not “I think”. Using I know is a strong assertion and leaves no room for doubt. However, do not become obsequious or over the top in your praise or compliments, because this will either cause us to sense more fuel is on offer or we will regard you as taking the piss and this will be Challenge Fuel. In either case, this causes us to focus on the fuel and/or asserting superiority and your request will be lost in the process.

9. Make the request once and once only. If you do not get a response or the response is rejection do not go back. All we will do is future fake and provoke you. If the request does not meet with success then you have made your point and you should then proceed to escalate the matter through a formal channel. Don’t keep chipping away asking “did you get the e-mail” (put a delivered and read receipt on it). Don’t demand that the request is answered (see the point about demand above).

10. If the execution of the request requires the delivery up of property, the return of possessions and such like, politely request that this is done through a third party and specify when they will attend to collect goods or deliver property etc. With regard to money you can arrange for this either be paid into an account or if it is cash have it handed to the trust worthy third party. Do not suggest that you will meet with us to execute the request. This will cause us to see an opportunity to gain fuel and deny the request or string it out and delay.

11. Ensure the request is clear. Do not suggest any meeting to discuss it. Do not invite us to advance counter proposals. Do not fudge the issue. Identify what needs to be done, make the request in a clear fashion noting precisely what should be provided for example, when and how. Invite a third party to review the written request so it reads clearly and there is no scope for misunderstanding. We will exploit a lack of clarity in order to contact you in person and thus draw fuel etc.

12. Politely request that the response from us is sent to a third party. You should always make the request (do not do so by proxy as this will insult us and wound us that you could not even be bothered to do the courtesy of asking us to begin with and your request will immediately fail) . However, detail in the request that performance of the request and confirmation should be provided to a third party who you can trust. This will deny us the opportunity to try to hoover you and dodge the purpose of the request. It also means that you may also maximise your prospects of a successful outcome when you are painted black still. If we do not have to deal with you (when there is a concern that you might for example interfere in the blossoming seduction of a new IPPS) then this is likely to improve the chances of it happening.

13. Identify the school of narcissist you are dealing with and tailor the request accordingly. The Lesser will have lower energy levels and risk an ignition of fury more readily, therefore look at ways of making his compliance easy – send someone to collect rather than wanting him to come and deliver for example. The Mid Ranger will want to be seen as the ‘good egg’ so factor that into how you phrase the request. The Greater will be above such trivialities and you may benefit from suggesting one of the Greater’s people liaises with one of your people to execute the request.

14. Do not offer a reward or incentive for compliance. This will then be the focus of our response and this will be sought without acceding to the request. If you show you are willing to give us something in return (which we regard as being entitled to anyway) we will focus on that instead.

15. Seek my assistance with a bespoke solution to the relevant situation so all factors are considered and taken into account and I can assist with the drafting of a request which is far more likely to succeed.

16. If the request does not work, do not be disheartened. Instead, if you have followed this article you will have avoided giving much fuel, you will not have made a show of yourself, you will have breached no contact of course but not in a way that is going to cause you huge problems and you will have established a constructive platform which will allow you to, if you wish, to escalate the matter in order to bring about compliance through an alternative method.

 

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32 thoughts on “How To Make A Request of a Narcissist”

  1. Last week I made a request of my ex narc . To meet. To talk. I know… bad bad girl. But I’m tired of talking to myself about things every day and need to say some things in person to her. I feel it will purge some of my angst. HG I imagine shaking his head- knowing I’m a bad listener and maybe a dirty empath too- 🤣
    I sent a hand written note within a blank greeting card that said “hello”. In the US Mail. She replied by text in 2days. With a “yes- of course we can meet and talk”
    As discussed I was direct, clear, and used several sentences stating things like … I really would appreciate it, if you could be so kind, and the like.
    I am meeting her today at 5:30 pm at an ‘Irish’ pub.

      1. Oooh NarcAngel!

        A friend just sent me a meme that I thought you would enjoy:

        “Please don’t knock on my door to talk about God.
        I don’t knock on your door to talk about alcohol and vibrators, do I?”

      2. Virtual fistbump Windstorm! You gave me a big belly laugh on that one.

    1. Kathleen
      Letters and texts are considered a hoover in the fifth sphere of influence. Let me know how it goes, if you don’t mind.

      1. K, thank you- well-it went oddly. LOL. I felt in control the whole time. She’s a mess.
        Didn’t look too good. Has a bit of a lung infection. Vague answers. All was fun and well until I brought up MY feelings and interpretation of history. After about an hour or so of catching up and bantering- I tried to explain why I felt hurt or like I couldn’t talk to her until now. She got VERY uncomfortable and got up to leave (we had just ordered a sandwich to split) Tossed out $40 and said I’m going. I calmly followed her to her car and was able to talk a little bit more with her but the level of her pathology and need to rewrite history the way she wants to see it is really tragic. It didn’t really upset me that much -if anything it made me more glad that I am not tangled up with her anymore At least entangled in any way that I feel responsible for her at all or that I depend on her for anything or that we have any kind of relationship at all. I just cannot imagine what the new supply thinks about her. Because at least from what I have seen the new supply is pretty successful and has actual solid accomplishments education and the like. She referred to her as her ‘Paramour‘ – I’m like – ok that’s what you’re calling it?
        So anyway before she drove off and said (after complimenting me multiple times on my clothes and etc – said to me-‘after you take your trip in a week or so will have dinner and we can talk’ and I said OK you can make a list of what topics are off-limits and what topics are on limit but you have to understand that for four years I didn’t express myself and it would be nice if you could listen to me for 30 minutes/hour and handle what I have to say. So we’ll see if anything ever comes of that I’m not gonna hold my breath.
        Meanwhile…. geez. I feel good getting out at least partially what I wanted to say but wow it really lit a fuse fast definitely a case of “you can’t handle the truth!”

      2. Kathleen
        You passed up $40 bucks and the whole sandwich to follow her to her car!!!

        Serious question now: is the purpose of meeting with her to get some kind of closure? Do you want her back in your life?

      3. Hello Narcangel- actually I went back in and ate half the sandwich. Finished my drink and apologized to the waitress for the minor drama. She may not even have noticed it’s not like there was yelling or pulling or that- but I did try to get her to sit back down…..but she was ignited! Amazing. Lol. Today im like- did that meeting even happen?

        My reason-I wanted to say things I’d been afraid to say before the split but never did. I wanted to let her know I know about her lies,
        No- I don’t want her back in my life as a regular friend or parner.
        However- I admit I’m curious as to how things with that new supply is going. Narc didn’t look too great so the attraction i had had wasn’t very strong. But there’s a dirty empath side of me that thinks maybe I should see if i can pull her off base(see if she’ll stray) -which would validate to me that this new one means nothing to her/no loyalty. Like we had crazy ‘chemistry ‘ due to her crazy intermittent reinforcement- so I sometimes think – why not ? I expect zero. It could be a naughty diversion.
        We’ll see. She said go on your trip and we’ll have dinner. Your house or mine. I was like – hrmmm ok we shall see. Ok- apologies- i am not proud of my depravity- but This is a forum for being real- right?

      4. Kathleen

        No judgement. Just curiosity, and a reminder that narcs dont give closure if thats what you were hoping for.

      5. Kathleen
        You dirty empath! The new IPPS means nothing to her, except for fuel, traits and residual benefits. She has no loyalty to you or the new IPPS; you are both easily replaceable/interchangeable.

        I am depraved, too, and proud of it; let me know if you decide on dinner after your trip, if you don’t mind sharing.

      6. Kathleen
        I was thinking about your response to NarcAngel, if her fury was ignited and she was in a public place then she needed to maintain her facade so she withdrew. I think she is a mid-ranger. You provided fuel when you followed her (body language) and this probably healed the wound.

        Correction: Any interaction outside of the formal relationship is a hoover and I think respite hoovers occur in the context of the FR so her compliments to you were probably used to elicit positive hoover fuel, ergo, not a respite hoover.

        It looks like you were painted white and black and white again and you provided fuel (challenge, positive and maybe negative too).

        Excellent hoover experience! Thank you for sharing!

      7. K, Thank you for your support 😊. I had been thinking of this all in a very serious and dramatic way for many parts of my 7months NC. I’m finally able to see it as more of a farce. to diffuse my imagination about how I thought maybe her life is a wonderful dream with the new supply i felt i had to take a close up look. She told me she was glad I wanted to talk. What was amazing – but not when I take in all I’ve learned….but to a normal person I consider myself to be- was that she appears entirely clueless that I’d be hurt or not want to come by and say hello to her when she’s with hwr new supply. (We three were recently at an event at same time) .
        she said how I had expressed my dissatisfaction with the relationship in the past -i said- that didn’t make it any easier. so that’s all it took for her to erase any culpability for her actions or how they may influence my feelings/etc. her mind heard – i am dissatisfied-
        It’s so non empathetic it’s humorous. Kinda like Trump.

        That’s where things started to go off the rails and I brought up a specific incident and she did not like my interpretation of what happened.
        I think now I realize it’s ridiculous for me to even discuss any of it because she has rewritten history and it will not be changed. So I don’t need her for closure on it. I understand she can’t give it. So what next. I could just walk off and forget it. Or I could tinker a little. I have my compassionate side that feels bad for her pathology but it’s futile since she’s not likely to acknowledge she’s broken.
        I’ll let you know of any updates.
        Cheers

      8. Kathleen
        I know your comment wasn’t to me, but you mentioned how it surprised you that your narc really seemed to have no idea what she wanted you to do would cause you pain. Lots of them are like that. Of course a lot of the time they are deliberately hurtful for negative fuel, but a lot of the time they’re just clueless because they have no empathy.

        I’ve learned to laugh at that when it happens. If it’s a family member or friend, I often tell them why it was hurtful to me (or to whoever else was involved). Sometimes this irritates them, but more often they seem puzzled as they try to understand. That’s what you have to do with narc children to teach them cognitive empathy and how to get along with others.

        Of course we all drop the empathy ball sometimes. I recently had a friend want me and my exhusband to come to her and her husband’s 40th anniversary wedding vow renewal. She wanted us to sit together in the church when we are divorced and would have been married 41 years ourselves, if I hadn’t had to leave him. She truly seemed to not realize how that would be both uncomfortable and hurtful to us both. She’s not even a narc. She’s a codependent.

      9. K, i wanted to fill u in on a few other small things.
        Also I had wondered if you were in your one reply considering her agreement to meet and talk -a hoover when it was me who was the instigator of contact by sending the letter.
        I neglected to state (since i am a bit embarrassed and feel like I am playing with fire and maybe people in this forum think I’m an idiot for tinkering but ..) the day after our brief meeting I sent a text asking how her lung was feeling. That’s it. No reply from her.
        History-she’d had an issue a few x with it since actually 3 years back she had breast cancer on that side and there had been a spot on lung they’d been watching. And perhaps radiation had damaged? Etc. So even though I know she’s toxic and hurt me during our entanglement I feel some concern towards her health so I was being friendly. However I wonder if a narcissist might interpret that ask as a bit of an injury because it’s pointing out a flaw- anyway she did not respond. So- next day I sent an email to her with some flattery towards her. Like you looked and seem well.- it was good to talk. I wrote that things could have ended more smoothly. And I also said I agree there are things in the past that just don’t need to be dredged up. And that I would like to meet as she stated later in the month. I realize the part about forgetting the past- entirely negates me as a individual with feelings or the need for respect . But as HG has said- narcissists dont go backwards- always forwards . So I realize it’s entirely futile and I don’t need her to admit anything or hear how awful she was.

        It’s very clear that she has rewritten history in her head and any attempt to challenge that history will be met with immediate fury. So I’m seeing it as a game of chess. But there are no rules other than for me to remember she must have fuel and she must remain in control. It is interesting that now that my role has changed- It’s almost as if she’s treating me in a very classical narcissist sense. Which I can recognize now thanks to HG’s many many articles as well as a consultation or two that I’ve had via email with him. Before when I was deeply in tangled and being devalued I was much less aware of the patterns And the almost robotic or elementary “call and response” type interactions. it’s rather amazing to see how the behavior that I have learned about fits almost to a T. It is fascinating and freeing to me in that I know the new person and all her other fuels are simply experiencing different types of interactions with her. And that none of them are really deep emotional interactions. That is the hardest thing to understand is that lack of emotional depth and deep deep feelings that I experienced a lot every Day it can come from hearing a song to sing something like a bird doing something even admiring a flowers and just feeling the beauty of the universe and I know that I could never share that type of knowing with her.
        So – if there is a next time- I’m not entirely confident that it’s even possible to have any kind of discussion with her beyond daily pleasantries and superficial things-And I definitely felt that in the relationship but I thought she was just afraid to be vulnerable and that I could love her out of it.
        Now she knows that I’m onto her-but I am very passive about it and not threatening not really wanting anything from her..
        I don’t know how a narcissist handles people that know their bullshit and/or if she sees I have any further value in her fuel matrix.
        Thx K – I’ll keep you posted.

      10. Kathleen
        Even though you initiated the contact, it is still considered a hoover. You made it very easy for her to hoover you; the hoover bar in on the floor. and very low energy expenditure. Don’t be embarrassed, your emotional thinking has taken over and that is normal. Her non-reply was most likely a silent treatment. Compassion, concern about her health and kindness are all fuel (not a wound) and she may not have responded because she is trying to provoke a response (more fuel) from you, or maybe she has painted you black and she is punishing you (ST). She does NOT answer to you.

        You e-mailed and provided more positive fuel: flattery, kindness, mea culpa and compliancy. Damn, Kathleen! You conceded.

        It is very clear from what you wrote that you are very well aware of the dynamic, how it plays out and its predictability and you know the only way to win is not to play the game.

        We have the ability to experience the world differently then narcissists. You and I can attach emotions to the alarum of the Blue jay, the gentle waves that lap at the shore or a violent ocean tempest, the quiet buzz of the honey bee on a hot summer’s day, the passion in Bizet’s Carmen, the mysteries of the moon or the wonder in the brush strokes of van Gogh’s The Starry Night. They do not have empathy and experience the world quite differently than us. They are wired for fuel and their need is so pressing that it is too dangerous for them to have emotions similar to ours. They need to be ruthless; it is paramount to their survival. It is brutal from our POV; necessary from their POV.

        You may want to rethink being part of her fuel matrix. She is a taker, not a giver and, if you think about it, do you really want to be a part of that dynamic? The next time you consult with HG, I think you will benefit greatly with the Skype. When you have a chance read:

        https://narcsite.com/2018/05/30/the-golden-rules-of-freedom-no-1-2/
        https://narcsite.com/2017/12/27/5-reasons-we-disengage/
        https://narcsite.com/2017/11/02/the-5-devaluation-triggers-4/
        3. See Through

        Keep me posted and keep reading, it will help with your ET.

      11. You are welcome, Kathleen
        Thank you for responding. I am happy to read that you felt in control and that she didn’t look too good. Of course, it was all fun (positive fuel) until you brought up YOUR feelings and POV. You challenged her (reality) when you tried to talk about why you were hurt (by her) and she instinctively rejected it; she won’t accept blame/culpability for her behavior because she is whiter than white. She was fueled, but she had to maintain control and assert superiority and she did so by getting up and leaving (to deny you a further voice). You continued to challenge her when you followed her to the car and calmly tried to talk about her pathology and rewriting of history (she gas lighted you).

        I am glad you didn’t get upset and you are not responsible for her at all. When you go NC and get your ET under control you are able to “see” what you were really dealing with and realize how lucky you are because you are no longer be entangled. Do not depend on her for anything and your relationship was never two ways.

        The reference to the new supply as ‘Paramour’ was triangulation and probably used to get some negative fuel, but it looks like you didn’t provide much fuel at all. Who knows what the new supply thinks and it looks like she may be out of the GP and in devaluation because of the hoover.

        Those compliments, about your clothes and etc, are a respite hoover and the invitation to dinner could be future faking or just another hoover. Don’t hold your breath about the list or the 30 minutes/hour of listening. I am glad you feel better about having a say and do you think you will meet for dinner after your trip?

  2. hg, I know you want to be the number one source for the reality of how narcissists think and behave. With nearly ten thousand views I think you have clearly met your goal. When your page reaches the unrivaled number of ten thousand views can you please give us your responses to the first ten letters?

    1. I think you mean ten million. There is still a lot of work to go yet. My observations on the letters will follow in the future.

  3. During the IGH, I got a lesser to sign his parental visitation rights away. Thank god. I was still letting him get to me and still thinking that maybe things could work out and maybe we’d get remarried down the road, but thank god I had the presence of mind to follow through with the divorce and ask him kindly to just sign the papers my lawyer had written up. He was always extremely cooperative during his benign hoovers. Idiot. He never saw his one year old son again. My son is grown up now and is MUCH better off for it.

      1. I think you’re responding to me. 🙂 My lesser didn’t fully realize what he was signing. The decree says that all visitation will be at my sole discretion. That seemed fine to him as he assumed he had control over me, which he still kind of did when he signed it. Well… my sole discretion turned out to be zero and never. Lol. He disappeared in a rage and then re-surfaced 3 years later with an irate IPPS. She was outraged at the heartbreak I had caused her sweet prince by depriving him visitation. (Apparently he had a room full of toys that he had never been able to give his long lost son). They took me to court and I handed his ass to him. As a result of taking me to court, he got a judgment against him, got his license indefinitely revoked and eventually ended up in jail. Hahahaha. Oh… and no visitation. He left me alone after that. The lessers make it too easy.

      2. They really do. Very dangerous in a physical sense and, if you don’t see them coming, can also do a lot of mental damage to you and your relationship with your little one. I’m glad your child is safe.

  4. Good advice if the request is for something material. But in my case the request was something I needed him to do in front of me (delete all of our correspondence and empty his email trash). I couldn’t tell him what it was because I was afraid he would lie and say he did it even when he hadn’t. I needed proof. I did much of what you said – asked in an email, waited until things were calm several months post escape, was polite and light, avoided his hoover attempts. But I STILL ended up on the hook for more than a week, in tears of frustration and threatening him (ace in hole – I would go to his family home if he wouldn’t come to me – not everyone will have that weapon). In the end, he came over and it got done, but it took so much out of me. Good reminder about why engaging with him about anything is a losing proposition but maybe this post needs a warning to steel yourself because asking the narc for anything is asking to be put through hell. I should have consulted with you first HG.

  5. My brother who has some strong narcissistic traits refused to return important documents belonging to my father. He appropriated the docs without asking anybody around the time he was buying some property. Alarm bells went off because my father and brother have the same name. I always check their banking and property docs to protect them. My parents are in denial about the possibilities. I know better. I was very unimpressed (understatement) about the missing data but kept friendly and diplomatic with my brother and politely requested the docs 7 months in advance before me arriving back to the parental home. He still had not delivered blaming it on the flu, Christmas festivities, busy with work etc. I had to drop Ms. ‘friendly’ and bring up threats, attack after attack via text. Blow after blow after blow. It was a serious matter and he could not win on this platform. Finally on Christmas Day he sent his g/f with the papers. I noticed that when I show up my brother makes himself very scarce. He also loves to triangulate my parents with one another and me against them or vice versa. He knows very well those tactics never work with me and he restrains his attempts but they work very well with my parents sadly!

  6. I have behaved as this post suggests and experienced success at having precious property returned from a mid-ranger. Fortunately the timing was near ideal – post discard but with a new IPPS. I made the initial mistake of going through a third-party (thinking a disinterested broker would be acceptable), and just as HG predicted, my request was immediately rejected. Remaking the request in the proper form did the trick.

    This is good advice.

  7. Mrs W here: Gee are y’all high maintenance! Do not do not, do this do that… How’bout you give me my shit back or …. sorry I mean, would you be so kind as to please gimme what’s mine? It’s just mind-boggling ^^

  8. Very good advice. I was fortunate to have grown children when I left my exhusband. It was in his self interest to appear benevolent in front of them. They were willing to be intermediaries when I needed a response from him, so I never had to confront him.

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