Closure Denied



We do not do the clean break. We never allow closure. There is no neat conclusion when you have been entangled with our kind. You are not allowed the precise and final cut of the surgeon’s scalpel but instead you must be content with the rusty saw that has sought to effect an amputation but instead has merely created a grisly abomination whereby there remains tendrils attached and ragged and torn flesh. No matter how hot the water which flows in your shower and the vigour with which you scrub your reddened flesh, no matter how much detergent you apply and no matter whether you use scrubbing brush or wire wool you cannot remove that residue. We linger. We remain. We percolate and infiltrate.

This, like much of what we do, is a calculated act to maintain a connection between you and us. We can never let go so we see no reason why you should be allowed to either. The residue which we create and which you cannot remove, takes many forms. It may be the fact that we chose you when we worked together so that each day you have no choice but to see us across the floor space in the same office, in the cafeteria or striding across the car park. Once upon a time, like every good fairy tale, you smiled and you felt your heart skip a beat as you saw us exit the lift and smile at you. That wonderful smile which was just for you. Now when we exit the lift and our cold, dead eyes alight on you, the smile is no more than a sickly leer which slowly opens up across our face as we know the residue of our impact on your remains deep inside you. You are faced with this each day. It is either that or leave and go somewhere else and even though you know that the latter is probably the most appropriate cause of action, something prevents you from doing so. Is it because you still want to see us? Of course it is. You may very well hate us but you cannot still help yourself as you want to see what we are doing and allow yourself the indulgence of looking at us and remembering.

In a different way the residue may be the fact that we owe you money and you are left to contact us, despite not wishing to do so, because you want, no, because you need that money. After all, we leeched from you so successfully that we have left you in penury and you need this money to be reimbursed. Part of you would rather write it off and in doing so hope that you can scour us from your memory, but circumstance dictates the necessity of collection. We know this and we shall provide excuse and exhibit delay and prevarication in order to keep you hanging on and in order to keep the connection between us alive still. The money will be paid by the end of the week promise. Sorry but we had to have a new boiler fitted so it will be next month now. The bonus was not as large as had been promised so it will a further three months as I shall have to pay you by instalments. What money? I do not know owe you anything. We keep you dangling and pull at the connection that remains between you and I. If it is not money, then it will be possessions. We will purposefully leave our belongings in your house and you will repeatedly ask us to collect them. We issue similar excuses to the repayment of the borrowed money. I am a bit busy at the moment maybe next week. I need to collect it in a car and mine is in the garage at the moment. If the possessions are not ours at your property then we will have ensured that in addition or as an alternative we will have kept items belonging to you with us, causing you to have to keep some form of contact with us in order to recover them. We ensure we select those items which are expensive and of sentimental value so you will not be able to replace them but instead you must keep asking us for the items. We will string out the return of these items by failing to be in when you call to collect them, turning up to deliver them when you are not in, forgetting to do so and so forth. It all maintains the link between us and increases your upset, annoyance and frustration. We want to keep our residue in your life so that when we choose to make our move we can suck you back in without difficulty.

We will remain in the same circle of friends as you. With our notoriously thick skin we will still turn up to meals and drinks knowing that you will be there. You will feel uncomfortable and resent our intrusion. Third parties will try to keep the peace and of course we will maintain our façade in order to show that we are a good person and we are just trying to be civil following the ending of the relationship. You may react to this and it enables us to point out that you are unhinged, unpleasant and always have to bear a grudge. Is it any wonder that we left?

Whilst we create the ever presence so that you see us everywhere you go, in sounds, in sights and tastes, we also like to leave our mark on you, smearing you with the residue of the relationship so that you feel tainted for the rest of your life, marked with the repeated reminder that you have been embroiled in a relationship with us and moreover to let you know in the clearest terms that you will never be free of us. We can never be washed away.

56 thoughts on “Closure Denied

  1. JR says:


  2. JR says:


  3. Sophie says:

    My ex wants closure. Says he’s sorry and can’t move on. He wants to meet face to face to talk and ask for my forgiveness. Do I meet him?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Depends on what he is. If one of our kind the answer is no.

    2. Erin says:

      Closure is just an excuse for a hoover. A narc can even try to meet for closure and then try to weasel their way into sex, “One last time” (and it will never be the last time if you let it happen). My ex used the “closure” thing to try and reinstate me as the primary source, so don’t fall for it. No contact is best if you don’t have kids together. Just don’t reply, not even to say “no.”
      “Never” does not exist for a narcissist, what it really means is “Until I change my mind”

      1. HG Tudor says:


  4. Kendreya says:

    Me and my ex narc broke up two years ago. He went straight from me to her. He would always post things on social media about his new relationships and i would not feed into him. I always knew he didn’t want to see me happy after the breakup i just didn’t know why until i read about narcissits people. He recently reached out to me and i fed into him the he reversed everything on me! He has his new target so minapulated and brain washed! But, Why i feel drawn back to him? Why i keep feeling like i miss him? When i went two years not paying him no attention!!!!!!!!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      This is the effect of the emotional infection. I recommend you read the book Exorcism.

      1. Tappan Zee says:

        HG. Should that be on deck for me? Not that you keep all of we empaths straight but I’ve been “feeling” stuck and drawn but am nc. Still though: free falling. In my head and crazy heart. Internal fight is exhausting. Tired all the time. It’s really a lot like living with the narc when it’s all swirling in my head. Heart, Gut. Wherever the hell it is. It needs OUT.

  5. Luna says:

    Dear HG, I wrote here my first comment a few days ago and I confirmed it by email, but the comment didn’t appear. Is there any chance, that it will change and – it would be really nice – You’ll respond?
    Thanks for Your work here anyway.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you. I am working my way through a lot of comments and get to them all eventually.

  6. ISeeYou says:

    You literally are nobody.

  7. ISeeYou says:

    So did you even realize that all your vile and hateful thoughts toward others are actually what you think about yourself? Your silly little ego mask that you hold up, claiming that you’re the master of this and the master of that…. it’s all stolen personality traits. Because all the psychopath can do is mimic others. You should see how many Jokers and Harley Quinns are out there right now!! It’s fucking ridiculous!

    You’re all goddamn movie characters! Right “Ryan Gosling”?

    The vile insulting hateful shit, the discards and the blameshifting… that’s because you project your own failures onto your victims and you can’t stand to be faced with your own weakness, so you blame someone else after you force them to feel your emotions for you.

  8. Shannon says:

    The narc I married broke up with me via text several times over the course of the first 6 months we were together. I always begged him to take me back and begged him to talk to me in person. Ugh. If I knew then what I know now….

  9. NJ and laughing says:

    I’ll even go
    On record stating that if you declare his next moves and they are right… I
    Will tell
    Everyone you know the truth. The thing is …. I’m out. He is busy. He will
    Forget me so fast. A year isn’t too long a time to date. 12 months. Nbd. I nailed it. He’s probably sleeping w someone else as I write this. Poor girl. This one was broken. Not anymore. 28
    Hrs free and clear. Most ever. Whatcha day to that ?

  10. NJ and laughing says:

    Well my situation is different. I got closure. I told him nicely I had to work
    On myself. I played it like
    It was me. He smiled. And said it was unhealthy. He was calm. But we sat in a coffeehouse. I didn’t want to
    Meet him at his place. He had no problem
    Saying goodbye. I think
    Free and clear HG… and this is a huge self seeking, attention craving man
    Child. We’ve blocked each other. He doesn’t want anything anymore to do W me. It’s ok. He has so many women he says are friends…. I will
    Be out of sight and out of mind. I really believe that HG. This one got away.

    1. VBihotxmina says:

      I am meeting my narcissist this weekend at his request, “to get closure” he says… I am the one who called it off, I am so afraid he’ll try to crush me emotionally but your comment makes me hope that it will go like your story…

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Do not meet the narcissist- you are being manipulated

  11. Skylar says:

    But H.G. there are times where the Narcissist never contacts his victim ever again. Right?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      If we die, or you die, that is correct. Otherwise there is always a risk. It may never happen because there is no Hoover Trigger (unlikely) or the Hoover Execution Criteria is not met (which could happen). You ought to plan accordingly to minimise the risk.

  12. VFH says:

    Thank you, that’s interesting. Have you ever considered that the way you are is the residue too?

    Or would you perhaps not humour the thought in the first place. You are what you are, no need to change etc etc?

    What you said about “No matter how hot the water which flows in your shower and the vigour with which you scrub your reddened flesh ” reminded me of my ex N. He would have the water SO hot either shower or bath that his skin was red after – he scrubbed himself all over too. Not even remotely could it have been considered exfoliating! I wondered if you had similar tendencies.

  13. VFH says:

    Do you feel like you have residue left on you HG?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      That is a good question. I say no because I have found an effective method of addressing that residue by being what I am. I do know however that there are those who say that the way I am is the residue.
      Of course the effect of the residue and how it is addressed is different for empathic victims of our kind.

  14. K says:

    Money wasn’t an issue with us, but he left behind a bunch of stuff he used for his business, plus financial records. Everything was donated or trashed and I had a professional company shred 10 boxes of financial documents. Positive fuel!

  15. Lisa says:

    I swear HG, you are the tHiNg lurking around my life! Or at least has been. Yes he’s gone (for) now, but this script is/was the story of my life.
    Between you and me HG, does your name begin with a P? I know you wont say….but Im thinking the HG is an alias yes?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      HG is an alias yes. No my name does not begin with the letter P.

      1. Lisa says:

        Wow didnt expect that answer HG. Thought you might just fib…a little.
        Im actually glad your name doesnt start with P. Although I should have known. Your intelligence is much greater than the tHiNg’S. TY. 😉

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I have no need to fib here.

  16. mistynolan01 says:

    Closure denied? That’s impossible. We are only trapped by our own minds.

    Rinse. Repeat.

    I am working to firmly entrench that into my psyche. I’ll get there.

    Meanwhile I am comforted by the space and time between me and the ex narc. Both my parents are dead at early ages. They can’t hurt me. Again, only the shackles of my own making restrict my recovery.

    Rinse. Repeat.

  17. olol I’m really greatly flattered

  18. lansealan says:

    Sheesh, Slow down alittle dude…
    Too much info to consume at once😜

    (trying to adhere to “how to eat an elephant”) lol

    1. lansealan says:

      “WARNING! WARNING! Will Robinson!
      “Circuit overload with imminent implosion nearing”!!!

  19. I squirted myself with Vanish once, but nothing happened. Yes, I am a squirter.

    HG, what is it that you feel when you’re surrounded by beautiful naturistic landscape scenes; rainbows/waterfalls/fireworks/trees/flowers/mountains/wildlife etc? What, if anything, does it conjure up inside of you?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I can appreciate them for the purposes of storing the image to use to my advantage at a later date, for instance, explaining the beauty of a view from a hilltop to impress a target, to describe the serenity of a forest in such detail to appeal to the listener. Words are weapons.

      1. So, just more ‘objects’ and ‘things’ which are seen as an extension of you, to use to help capture and keep more fuel supply?

        Don’t you ever imagine yourself sitting on a picnic blanket, either alone or with someone else, and see the wonder and beauty of it all, and savour the peaceful feeling of it all? Or, take a boat ride on a lake, and get inner satisfaction from the bird sounds and ripples of the water as your ore glides smoothly over the surface? No comforting flash backs or need to want to be amongst it again, in times of stress?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I can picture all of that but for me it is linked into how it can be used for the furtherance of my aims.

      2. Erin says:

        I really liked this post, it was very eloquent, and struck a chord with me: one narc managed to convince me to meet for “closure”, then was a bit frustrated when I did not give in to his advances (he later admitted he’d hoped we’d have sex! Ha!).
        H.G., in some post somewhere you said that someone sources the images for you, based on what you’d like. My question is: are there any people you know personally who are aware of your nature and are not a “victim” so much as part of your group?
        If not, how would you feel about someone finding you out but still wanting to be your friend?
        Finally, this blog provides you with fuel, I imagine…Do you ever notice is the type or amount of the supply from the blog etc impacts how you treat your primary source?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          There are some people who have their suspicions as to what I am but they do not know the full extent of it by any degree.
          It would be a new horizon if someone knew precisely what I am and wished to be a friend.
          I do gain a little fuel from the blog yes, but as explained on many occasions previously it is of low potency and therefore has no impact on the fuel gathered in my private life. The blog is more effective in increasing my knowledge and understanding.

  20. Scout says:

    Truly sadistic. Narchole has deleted all the photos from our “relationship” in Dropbox, with the exception of my photos from our last holiday in January, but even then he deleted all the pics of me and kept all the ones of him self. Then he put a lock on them. If I want access to my own photos I’d have to break NC. I’ve written them off. It’s not worth the hastle. An excellent article HG. Btw, you were right; he did finally attempt to get in touch via text. I ignored it. I expect he’ll try again won’t he?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You have done the correct thing by writing them off. The sanctity of your no contact should be regarded as worth more than many things. Yes, he will try again, subject to the Hoover Trigger and Hoover Execution Criteria.

      1. Scout says:

        The Hoover trigger is activated every fortnight – we used to do radio show together, which I now do with a new co-host. He still does his other show after mine, so I’m supposed to hand over… He called the shots to the team he didn’t want to see or speak to me so it was requested that I end my show early to save his face. At first I carried out his wishes but I became angry I was giving him power/control over me, so now I leave on time and that’s when we meet. When I saw him the other day I could feel and smell his hatred of me. He was fizzing with negative vibes. I ignored him completely.
        Yesterday was very hard. The urge to contact him was stong, but I resisted….
        Thank you for your help, it is most appreciated.

  21. Ali says:

    hm my comment was cut, sorry. it should say
    “we must get our own closure via understanding and grieving. we have to learn to accept and make our peace with the fact that we loved a fictional character and that the imaginary person we were in love with is NOT the narc-ex but a reflection of the person we wish to meet and would love if found in real life.
    The grieving process must involve insight into the detachement of the ex-narc from the character we have been in love with (and still are).

    Only by accepting that they were never, contrary to previous belief, one and the same but two very distinct entities – where the ex-narc never loved us and was never worthy of said love-, can we grieve properly and move on. Only then can we turn our life to the pursuit of rebuilding who we are meant to be. Only then can we search more confidently, using our new found knowledge to seek out, the person we should be loving: the one who embodies those traits we sought out within the wrong person. ”

    before the above

    1. lansealan says:

      Nicely put, Ali

      Thank you

    2. MLA - Clarece says:

      I love this Ali. “…the imaginary person we were in love with is NOT the narc-ex but a reflection of the person we wish to meet and would love if found in real life.”
      Thank you!

  22. Ali says:

    we sought out within the wrong person.

    we cannot seek it from the one who hurt us: that would require them admitting that they wronged us. That would require the narc to admit that we are entitled to anything at all, including the truth. They are incapable of this. They will never admit to hurting us because we are not equals or worth anything and definitely not entitled to have any rights thus no right to get the truth from them (which brings up questions about HG giving us this right???) We are toys to be discarded/put on the shelf, as HG has mentioned. To give us closure they would have to admit we are equals, that we have rights… and also giving us closure would hurt their attempts at hoovering us. It would close a door they do not wish closed fully. It would enable us to move on and cut ties completely. It would prevent them gaining any future fuel from us.

    thus we must seek our own closure, we have to be the ones discarding te narc-ex fully. we have to be the ones closing the door completely and moving on. We have to understand that hanging on is not an option.

    we have to accept that that sweet wonderful (FAKE) smile was NOT just for us, as you will be giving that same smile to any and all of your fuel sources behind our back. It was never for us you acted sweet or nice but for yourself, to gain something, to entrap us, to fool us. We have to come to terms with it completely and KNOW it for the game it was.

    money owed will never be repaid because you felt we owed you everything we have and are, thus you do not feel you owe us anything rather that we owe you, thus you will never repay. we then have to accept it and cut our losses before you do more damage then you have already done.

    if items are not collected within a certain amount of time and with several requests for the narc-ex to pick them up, we have a right to put them in a box on the curb with notice to you to collect them before the garbage truck does or before they are collected by needy people. We are also able to pack them in boxes and drop them off at someone else’s home ( a narc-ex’s family member or flying monkey) where the narc-ex can collect them rather then have to deal with it directly.

    there are sooo many other ways to cut ties completely and prevent contact…
    including using a proxy for contact if there are children involved and contact cannot be cut off 100%

  23. sarabella says:

    What I mean to say about closure, is what would you do if you thought you were denying it to someone, to keep the door open for future hoovers, but they found something in your behaviors that provided them with the closure and they told you that while you denied them closure, they finally found it in one of your words/behaviors and then it really does seem like they moved on/escaped? What would your response be?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I doubt they would find that because I know the closure that victims seek and we deny it, but if for the sake of addressing your question, if I felt that somebody had attained closure, I would look to open them up again in order to draw on what is rightfully mine.

      1. sarabella says:

        What is the closure? You sound like you know specifically what it is?

        How long would time need to go by for you to wonder if someone really did find it? Would it be a sense you have in the timimg of it all, or something specific that would ‘alert’ you?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Closure is the understanding of what you became ensnared with and why.

          It would not be a concern because

          1. We would be focused on the new prospect, the new IPPS and not concerned about what you are doing; and
          2. Nobody achieves it because they were not getting the true understanding that is required. Until now.

          1. sarabella says:

            Ok, that sort of makes sense, about closure. I think that is the missing piece on other forums. People talk so much about not getting closure. Truth is, even in more normal relationships I never got closure, people just move away from each other and it follows a rather natural path. When people would talk about not getting closure, I never knew what was meant by it. Like he was going to come right out and say, “Hey, I used you, conned you, manipulated you and never cared for you.”? What exactly did he have left to say to give me any closure. Nothing. Though he did do something similar in not so many words so in a way, that was my closure. But really, the closure is grasping the depth of manipulations and premeditation involved and how it all worked with his ‘wounded’ rages.

            1. But what if an empath went into supernova mode because she sensed things were way off and the impact of this was primarily that it was out of his control over me and, he has no real IPPS just lots of people who to quote him, are there “for him to try to take what he can get”. What if you underestimated a victim and she went into Super nova mode before you ‘were ready’? And then disappeared in the end? It hasn’t happened to you, but what if it did?

            2. I have thought about this. There is alot of info out there now on narcisissm and online forums there to help. What I think you bring to this that is unique is the clarity and depth on just how premeditated it all is. While people who tangle with lesser or mid narcs might not relate to the premedition part, they can still work to apply the dynamic.

            But mine was somehwere between mid and greater. He knew what he was doing as his Tells were many. So while other places do talk about how the manipulations are on purpose, I think you reallly drive home just how intentional it all is. How patterned not only is your behavior, but our own behaviors (empathic people) which make it work, too. This is the great take away I have from what you are doing here. Just grasping how deliberate and contrived it all was and how all of my responses were also patterns he was likely well familiar with. It explains how I had this sense that he was a few steps ahead each time controling the dynamic, even before it even happened. Sometimes, I wonder if it seemed this way as he knew how it always goes in his ‘relationships’, or, he was conditioning me into the pattern and into predictable behaviors. I can’t tell, but there was a way he seemed to be always slightly ahead. But this is what also got annoying to me as the spontanaeity and unpredictableness of a relationship is what he managed to squash out with his controlling ways. But your writing let me see how orchestrated it all is. He is never going to experience something in life and that’s a shame.

      2. sarabella says:

        You know, tell me if this is connected. I finally ditched mybold FB account. Started a clean new one. Within 4 days of this, narc posts on his own a dispute he is having with someone. Would be normal but he was bitching about someonr who I guess unfriended him and maybe blocked him. He starts it with Not that I care and so one, but he went on and on in this dispute.

        Maybe wishfull thinking to know I impacted him, but I wonder if his post wasn’t accumulated rage at me for unfriending him first. The irony is he was the one always ending fights in blocking.

        But I have a new account. I am sure it has popped up on his recommendations. I won’t contact him but now, it puts the ball in my court to ever respond to him. And the account is quite locked down, nothing public.

        I won’t go back into that pain so I will never ever reach out again, but I wish there was a way of knowing if I affected him at all. This part is almost faded but still there.

        It sure becomes easy to read in to things looking for ‘signs’.

  24. sarabella says:

    So, if many (not all) narcs know that you don’t give closure and all, then I will assume he is aware of this. I took one of his barbs meant to deeply wound, as it did, as it was the truth about something, and then thanked him for finally telling the truth and that he had spewed so many lies. I think thanks him as that was the closure I needed.

    Would that make you mad?

    Question: do you look through social media for who likes what posts and all if you are in an active ‘game’ with one of your victims? To see who is on the “list” of likes? Do you do this as part of your games to watch for patterns and the like?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes, I am adept at identifying and analysing patterns.

  25. screwyoudick says:

    Closure might be denied. EXPOSURE not denied. Seizing the POWER and loving every minute. It is so not true that the narc is more powerful, expose them and see how powerful they become. They become a pathetic recluse. I was told a long time ago, “You’re messing with the wrong guy”. Actually dick, you messed with the wrong woman! You just can’t lie, fake and fraud everyone and believe you are untouchable forever. He thought he HATED me when I figured him out, haha! Now go find yourself someone dumber than yourself if you can…..THANK YOU HG! ❤

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