I See Sanctuary


When I first meet you and I look into your eyes I find a certain sanctuary. Your optimistic eyes seem like paradise to me. I can see the hope, the desire and the adoration burning in your eyes. Be they brown, blue, green or grey I can see the promise of salvation. That is why I try so hard to win you over. I apply everything I can think of to ensure that you stay with me so I can gaze deep into your eyes and drink the delight, trust and admiration that flows from them. You have no idea how much I need to see those things. The more I show you love, affection and how interested I am in you, the greater the radiance that shines towards me and the sanctuary that you have created for me remains in place. It surrounds and protects me, keeping the pain and the hurt at bay. It is a simple formula; I shower you with affection and attention and you return to me that magical protection in the form of how you look at me. The admiring glance across the restaurant table, the wide-eyed desire when we are in bed together, the simmering passion as I undress you and the sheer adoration as you quicken your pace to cross a room or a road to meet me. I need that place of safety and respite. A sanctuary where I know that the whispering, taunting voices will be silenced. A place of salvation where that cold-fingered dread cannot grip my throat and silence my scream of terror. Those draining shades that manifest from a past which I try to consign into oblivion cannot reach me in this place. That is what I hope for and believe every time somebody new enters my life. If I can just keep you sending me the power and the protection arising from those magnificent eyes then I will be safe. I apply my every effort to maintaining that gaze which will keep the darkness and the foul creatures lurking amongst it at bay. Everything I do is geared around making you feel happy, loved and wanted so that you will keep looking at me in that way and preserving my sanctuary.

Yet, no matter how hard I try, notwithstanding every effort I apply to maintaining your state of joy and happiness, you let me down. Each time someone new appears I am given renewed hope that this time the sanctuary will be permanently preserved and each time you fail me. Why do you do this to me when I try so damn hard for you? The burning admiration that you exhibited towards me suddenly dims. The adoration that blazed across the room has lost its intensity. The shining lustre of desire has become dulled. You do this to me and in so doing you turn the key of the gates, lift the heavy bar and push them open. You do this on purpose don’t you? You breach the citadel so that the screeching, moaning and howling tormentors that have gathered beyond its walls are admitted to assault me once again as they try to pull me into the abyss of insanity. The craven creatures slither forward, their mucus-covered tendrils slipping and sliding as they seek me out, determined to coil about me and drag me silent with terror into that place I must not go. Why do you do this to me? What have I done to deserve this treatment? All I have ever done is love you with a perfect love to cause you to generate that sanctuary and now, with no warning or help, you allow the paradise to be violated by those that seek to harm me.

I am left with no option but to fight them. To muster my strength and seek to defeat these agents of darkness by gathering my rage and anger. I must lash out in all directions, often and without restraint in order to stop my tormentors from destroying me. It matters not who is caught up in this frenzy, it is incidental whether you or anyone else finds themselves collateral damage from my necessary defence of my being. I fight and fight and fight, it is exhausting but it must be done. I have to survive until the next promise of sanctuary is identified and drifts my way. There I will find peace and a place to restore my waning strength. Is it you? Perhaps this time the sanctuary will remain intact.


79 thoughts on “I See Sanctuary

  1. WhoCares says:

    “There are raptors in the world and they can`t be changed. It is against their nature. They want to abuse!!!”

    Poor raptors; they sure are getting a bad rap.
    Your comparison is interesting.
    Does the raptor deem itself evil, or the little bird deem itself the good guy? No, they just do what comes naturally to survive. Sometimes one wins, sometimes the other.

  2. WhoCares says:


    “You could have asked: Why are you still here?”

    Lol – Yes, most certainly a missed opportunity!

    But then again…if I had, he probably would have taken himself off in an absent sulk and I wasn’t packed and ready to go yet 😉

  3. LYNN says:

    I did think HG that you might interact a bit more on this blog than you do. If you create controversy then you should respond. Rather disappointed.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I do not have to do anything. Just so you know since this blog’s inception I have moderated over 185 000 comments, replied to probably more than half of those, written 100s of articles, recorded YT videos, answered tens of thousands of e-mails, handled consultations and more besides. I know I respond far more often than many other sites.

  4. LYNN says:

    yes you say your kind so fearful of that dark place but then if that’s so why don’t they keep us in the golden phase then they would have our adoration and fuel. it is not us HG that interrupts that provision of loving fuel, it is your kind that gets bored and wants to change it to negative so you can’t be that scared of the dark place. Anyway as you say you wait till you embed us then play your games but if you truly meant what you said in this write up then you would keep the love bombing going and keep the love fuel pouring back to you. This is your first one that has not sat well with me. you said ‘the burning admiration you exhibited towards me suddenly dims’
    I take offence to that because we all know that’s not true. Did you write that as a sarcastic lye to wind us up or is that what you think. But it’s not helping either way.
    no points this time HG
    and no reply from you?????

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It does dim. Hence why I wrote it.

      1. Alessa says:

        I guess you think it dims because that’s the way you want to see it, it is convenient for you. But Lynn has a point here, it doesn’t ever dim… if we get to leave you is because we escape, not because admiration dims

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Well that is the point, it dims to us. It may dim from your perspective also and sometimes it does not, but that is not the point, the point is to enable you to understand our perspective (not to accept whether it is right or wrong but purely to understand) so you get the answers.

          1. Alessa says:

            Yes! I see no wrongs and rights here, it is perspectives (such as in life), and I find this very useful. Thanks HG

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed, Alessa and you are welcome.

    2. Alessa says:

      I feel they do not appreciate this sanctuary, nor need it

    3. Michelle says:

      No it has to always look good on him or it doesn’t go through….

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Au contraire. Again, you are jumping to conclusions.

        1. tigerchelle78 says:

          Me? Jump to conclusions HG?! Nah! I literally hurdle to conclusions but then I think it’s safe to say on here, when we only have words to go by, it is easy to jump to conclusions when we are not familiar and know the people.

          1. Serene says:

            Poke poke. Hi.

          2. tigerchelle78 says:

            Hi….stop poking me lol!

      2. Jess says:

        This isn’t true at all. HG triggers us and we get angry. People lash out at him all the time. How do you expect a narcissistic sociopath to portray himself as “good?” Define good….

        I try to keep this in mind. If any of you succeed in wounding HG then ultimately his unknowing victims will suffer, not him. Remember that when you take digs at him and try to respect what he’s doing here.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Good perception, Jess. Nobody wounds me here though.

      3. Jess says:

        I didn’t think so. If you don’t mind…do you consider the blog itself a tertiary source? Or is it separate from the dynamic?

        I see why you choose not to date borderlines…good grief Charlie Brown!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Jess, is this a question to me or to Michelle?

          1. Michelle says:

            Well the questions are hardly to me are they HG?

            I’m the borderline (public enemy #1)

            That even the “The Greater Elite” don’t get involved with….And steer clear of!

          2. Michelle says:

            Who is this “Charlie Brown” fellow Jess?

            Yes I’m glad if it is true that Narcs don’t date borderline’s, as that means I’m safe! Plus the fact that, if the Narc knows what’s good for them, they will steer clear!

            They only target empaths as far as I know.

          3. Michelle says:

            Jess ….as IF anyone could wound HG on here. He ain’t a lesser ya know!

            He cannot hear our tone of voice, they are just words and from mere tertiary appliances, therefore no fuel hardly at all… i would suspect that everything just rolls off of him like water on a ducks back!

            And he really only probably remembers and knows those that have consulted with him I should imagine…(this does not include me)

            (Just clearing any indiscrepencies up in people’s minds!)

      4. Jess says:

        You. Lol.

  5. LYNN says:

    I’m sorry HG but I take this as an insult as I know in my case and the case of many other victim that the passion and burning desire and love never left our eyes. when your kind left us our fuel to you was still as huge as ever, we gave and gave and you walked away. this one has left me feeling very angry and makes no sense. RSVP HG

    1. Alessa says:

      Yes, it’s very difficult for us to lose this light, because it’s our nature.., but for me it’s a gift, to see light in everything and create goodness out of nothing…

    2. WiserNow says:

      Hi Lynn,

      I understand your anger and I’ve felt that way many times in the past. It’s very frustrating and confusing, especially when you have been devoted to the narcissist and your devotion has not wavered.

      Perhaps it will help to “see” the narcissist’s point of view if you think of them as having no real ability to “attach” to anyone. They do not think in the same ways as you do. They see your love and care and devotion and they simply cannot recognise it in the way that you can. All they see is fuel. They can’t attach and in addition, they get bored. They have short attention spans and need constant “re-fuelling”.

      That’s why the narcissist thinks your love gets stale even though you know you have not changed and you are still as devoted as ever. They simply do not think in the same way.

    3. MB says:


      It’s not that you stopped loving or stopped caring, their perception of it changed and you have no control over that.

      Compare it to a medicine that stops working on a particular ailment. The bacterium grows resistant to the antibiotic and it is no longer effective. The antibiotic didn’t change at all, the germ did.

      1. Windstorm says:

        I absolutely love your analogy!! Don’t know which is better, comparing their thinking to bacteria or our actions to antibiotics! Lol! But you’re very right in that they become resistant to the very same behaviors that satisfied them before.

      2. NarcAngel says:

        Agreed. He is writing from the narc perspective. Good anology, but in using it you insinuate that HG is a germ and now you must report to the naughty stool where you will get all the dirt (so to speak).

        1. MB says:

          I’ve never been to the naughty stool, but I did spend my fair share of childhood standing in the corner. HG is a most endearing germ, but quite resistant to the therapeutic effects of many a strain of empath.

      3. WhoCares says:


        I second Windstorm; great analogy!

        “It’s not that you stopped loving or stopped caring, their perception of it changed and you have no control over that.

        Compare it to a medicine that stops working on a particular ailment. The bacterium grows resistant to the antibiotic and it is no longer effective. The antibiotic didn’t change at all, the germ did.”

        In my relationship (because my narc and I were stuck together) I can see where he really struggled for fuel provision.  And he truely did have to adapt (like a germ) to get any emotional reaction from me…our lifestyle was very busy and task-oriented…and I was so disillusioned about things, I had mostly shut down and hardly spoke to him.

        I recall him, one time…just for no reason walking up to me with his hands opened wide in gesture and he said: “You can ask me anything. Anything!” (in an almost desperate plea)…I responded: “Yeah, okay, I don’t want to ask you anything right now. I’m busy.”

        Wow, he must have been so starved.

        Towards the end, I was a very unwilling appliance, lol.

        1. NarcAngel says:


          Haha. He left himself wide open giving that opportunity. You could have asked: Why are you still here?

    4. K says:

      This article might help you understand the narcissistic perspective better.


  6. Alessa says:

    I understand that even if the narcissist sees a sanctuary in a person, he will not miss an opportunity of dating (or more) somebody new, if the opportunity is there. Doesn’t the narcissist know he is at risk of losing this sanctuary if he dates this new person? What would he most likely do if, as a result of his cheating, he finds his IPSS dating another person, right after he committed this fault??…
    This question is because this has just happened to me. One week ago we had a great time (and I proved my loyalty, once more), and the narcissist did not stop promising to be with me his whole life (5y relation, uncountable ups and downs, and in the last months a long golden period), but last night I was in a restaurant with my friends, and he arrived to the same place with a friend and a very large crowd of girls, he texted me several times to go to his table, and when I finally did he was flirting with a girl, he just stood up to say hello, but did not allow me any space besides him, and looked uncomfortable… I got upset, then I found a friend of mine (a man), and he stayed in my table (my friend) the rest of the night. When my narcissist was leaving the place (hand by hand with the girl) he saw us, stopped, and shouted, DO I KNOW YOU??? And left the place…. now he must know that he might not be the only person in a woman’s life.

    1. LYNN says:

      yes Alessa they will always do it and I think HG’s account there is totally rubbish. Whether they are afraid of loosing us or not they know it’s highly unlikely as we are embedded and in love. They always do the damage first so can’t be that scared. HG’S account in my opinion is totally misleading.

      1. Alessa says:

        Yes, I agree, they know we are embedded and in love. In fact, I’ve noticed that before making this love with another girl they make sure to let you know “how much they love you”… with a gift, great words and promises

      2. Narcissists Cartoon says:

        Dear LYNN,

        I did’t quite get your comment. But I have few points for you:

        – I totally understand your anger towards narcissists. In fact, most of us are here to learn about narcissism because of what we have encountered in our lives in dealing with them. However, this doesn’t mean that we carry this anger and put it in any narcissist that we see. It is not fair, is it?. HG Tudor is sharing his point of view to help us, he is NOT trying to manipulate or hurt us. What he is saying is the truth. The truth from how narcisissts see the world. And we have to thank him for this instead of throwing some insults. I know that HG is a narcisisst but he doesn’t harm us in anyway, he is sharing his view and helping us. So, he is different than the narcissist that you are angry at, we have to spreate and put our anger at the right person.

        Even if the negative comment doesn’t wound HG, this doesn’t mean that we can throw our words like poisoned arrows. Not matter what HG write, it is his blog and we should never say to anyone that what he is saying is “ totally rubbish”. We are coming to his place, so we are visitors here, and what should a visitor do when they visit someone at their place or house, they have to show respect. And it is by our free will we came here, there is no force, so when we like something we share our opinion. When we don’t like something or we have a hurtful words it is better that we choose not to share them and remain silent.

        And the last point is, in response to this quote of yours “ HG’S account in my opinion is totally misleading.

        We have to show some respect, he is an excellent writer, an excellent counselor and he is doing many other things. I would call a person like him ,when interacting, Doctor HG or Mr.HG. For the respect of his knowledge and his polite response for everyone.


  7. Alessa says:

    I understand that even if the narcissist sees a sanctuary in a person, he will not miss an opportunity of dating (or more) somebody new, if the opportunity is there. Doesn’t the narcissist know he is at risk of losing this sanctuary if he dates this new person? What would he most likely do if, as a result of his cheating, he finds his IPSS dating another person, right after he committed this fault??…
    This question is because this has just happened to me. One week ago we had a great time (and I proved my loyalty, once more), and the narcissist did not stop promising to be with me his whole life (5y relation, uncountable ups and downs, and in the last months a long golden period), but last night I was in a restaurant with my friends, and he arrived to the same place with a friend and a very large crowd of girls, he texted me several times to go to his table, and when I finally did he was flirting with a girl, he just stood up to say hello, but did not allow me any space besides him, and looked uncomfortable… I got upset, then I found a friend of mine (a man), and he stayed in my table (my friend) the rest of the night. When my narcissist was leaving the place (hand by hand with the girl) he saw us, stopped, and shouted, DO I KNOW YOU??? And left the place…. now he must know that he might not be the only person in a woman’s life. How do narcissists understand this risk?

    1. Windstorm says:

      I know you werent asking me, but I can answer in part. Most narcissists are certain that they can always make new friends, get new lovers, etc. So there’s no real loss when they lose them. From my perspective it’s like they see the world as like walking thru an endless buffet – no need to fear hunger.

      The only time they really worry is if you’re providing residual benefits or important for their facade.

      1. Alessa says:

        Yes… I agree with you Windstorm, I like this approach that they see the world as a large buffet (I can tell this), they love cattering, and the presentation is very important…
        The only thing here is that I guess I was providing large amounts of fuel (so, at this point the narcissist was not interested in disengaging) (or yes, because I believe he wanted me to see him, or the other girl to see me; this is very confusing)… and my second thought is that he was not expecting the other guy to arrive…
        Thank you for your response Windstorm!!

      2. LYNN says:

        so true windstorm xx

  8. WhoCares says:


    “A reasonable person does not believe that you are so interesting that people will watch you on television.” – Anthony Bourdain

    Well, I think that says a lot about Reality TV…

    1. K says:

      Reality TV is Narc Nirvana. My lessers love it!

      1. Clarece says:

        Lol, K! Narc Nirvana.
        Shall that be the themed tag line for Tudor Expo 2018 in Las Vegas?

        1. K says:

          Ha ha ha…absolutely! Tudor Expo 2018, destination: Las Vegas, Narc Nirvana. Sin City even has its own motto for compartmentalization: What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas!

          1. Clarece says:

            K, would it be completely inappropriate to ask if we would need a PTSD Trigger Disclaimer on the backs of our Narc Nirvana tshirts? Just in harnessing the spirit of the WNAAD interview with HG?
            Nevermind, the cost of them would skyrocket due to imprint fees.

          2. NarcAngel says:

            Well I could print it on the front of my t-shirt but it would be all distorted and I fear the message would get lost from……right about the 3rd line on….

          3. Clarece says:

            Exactly NA! You don’t want strangers coming up, squinting and studying the front of your shirt up close from that third line down…

          4. K says:

            Ha ha ha…Tudorites don’t need the disclaimer (we are tough), however, a simple on-line statement will suffice for the newbies.

          5. MB says:

            Come on HG, I know you don’t manipulate your readers, but can’t we get just a little future faking or a crumb to keep our Vegas dreams alive! Haha!

  9. Michelle says:

    We don’t let you down (though it seems like that to you)….. it’s your perspective that lets you down HG. Perspective is everything! As you know, there are always more than one way of looking at something. Your perspective is limited, or clouded. You in a sense are like a horse with blinkers on. (Not an insult!)

  10. K says:

    I read that Anthony Bourdain was a self-diagnosed narcissistic and he had struggled with drug and alcohol addiction. (Cocaine, crack, and heroin) Red flags.

    Bourdain stated:
    “A reasonable person does not believe that you are so interesting that people will watch you on television. I think this is evidence of a narcissistic personality disorder to start with>”

    1. But, according to HG, it is very rare that a narc would commit suicide.

      1. K says:

        AB seemed restless and unable to find what he was looking for, maybe he was tired of looking (he travelled the world looking). Narcissists are always searching for The One; they search and search but it always eludes them.

        Avicci was driven and had a major drinking problem and he committed suicide in Oman. The lyrics in Wake Me Up are interesting.

        I wish that I could stay forever this young
        Not afraid to close my eyes
        Life’s a game made for everyone
        And love is a prize

        Avici: is the lowest level of the Naraka or “hell” realm, into which the dead who have committed grave misdeeds may be reborn.

        I haven’t found much on Kate Spade, yet.

  11. /iroll says:

    “A parasitic intimacy – a one way mirror of of cause and effect.”

  12. /iroll says:

    Do all pathological narcissists have alexithymia?

  13. Jess says:

    We start seeing them for the disordered person that they are and not what we think they are. What they want us to think they are. That’s what happens when you present as something that you aren’t. It gets tiring doesn’t it?? It’s not sustainable. Onwards to the next thing, I guess. We don’t live long!! Might as well right???? In the end there is suffering from this because everyone around the narcissist is traumatized… We need better than “onward to the next thing” if things are going to change in society. Less trauma means less narcissism and more connections being formed in the world.

  14. Star says:

    its so sad that they can never truly be satisfied.Its just as sad that somehow we empaths will twist ourselves into a pretzel, walk on eggshells, do tricks, weaken our bondaries etc, believing somehow, some way, our love and devotion will fill up that void in them. I used to try so hard, lose sleep, be anxiety ridden.
    I had a moment the other day where i kinda let my ( very recent fiance) down. He explained to me his feelings , i acknowledged that yes, i have been pretty wrapped up in other things as of late, and was overly absorbed and would make more of an effort to be present. Internally tho , i was panicking. i was terrified he was going to punish me somehow ( old triggeres reared their ugly head) i worried i would get the silent treatment , or that he would leave for weeks at a time like the ex usex to. Fortunately he is pretty in tune with me and actually asked if i was Ok. if i needed to talk. if he could help with something. I kinda was embarrassed admitting to him the terror i was feeling. To which lovely man he is , said that adults can disagree. Adults can argue. Adults can express feelings , exchange ideas and reach a compromise and agree to disagree. that a loving relationship is about give and take not punishment and power. He knew i wasnt trying to hurt him, and he wasn’t trying to hurt me. He values and respects me enough to be hoenest and upfront. Still , I am often amazed that even now 2.5 years later… how ” trained” i am by my ex. How even still I find myself thinking and doing what i feel is expected of me. i really hope that with time it wears off completely. I hope that last little bit of his voice in my head will disappear forever.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      The sound of you living a satisfying life will be deafening to and drown out his pathetic whispers until eventually he will be banished to oblivion. Do that.

      1. Star says:

        Thank you NarcAngel.Love that answer❤

  15. MB says:

    So descriptive, I have a picture in my head of this creature. This is one of my faves.

  16. IdaNoe says:

    I see hell in your eyes – Jonathan Davis from Slept So Long.

  17. Mona says:

    And that could be another reason, why narcissus died in the end. He could not find his face in the water. And therefore he tried and tried and tried and came nearer to the water…. until he fell in and died. New interpretation of this old saga. But compared to your statements, HG, – very logical. He could not find his face and a true personality. He was so persuaded- he is the best- but he could not find his face, although every-one else did. Superstar without a real face.

  18. Mona says:

    You, HG, will never understand. It is a game of give and take and not a game of power. You will always loose interest. That is the way it goes. Always. You are not interested in the other one as an individual.You see only yourself, your benefits, your advantages, your special needs. You replace extreme fear through anger and fury.Yes,it is functional. But therefore, you will never find the place to rest. Never ever. You will die as an eternal victim of your own nasty traits. Power means nothing in the end. But that is your decision and you are not able to understand it..
    And meanwhile I become a little bit annoyed by your never-ending monologues and contradictions. Is there anything new?

    (although I like the never-ending discussion and repetition of your thoughts. It reminds me of the classical speeches of the Romans)

    And you know best, if you would take another narc as a lover, it would end very bitter, for both of you. Pure hate would arise until one of your kind would have won. But which one?

    Therefore it is much easier to take an “empath”. Look into your mirror, there is nothing to face. It is empty.

    1. WiserNow says:

      Hi Mona,

      Your comments are interesting and they made me think about what you said.

      Your words “always” and “never” have so much finality and a total lack of hope. Your complete confidence in using these words in this way gave me a natural reason to ask if there is anything in this world that has such finality and the absolute inability to change.

      Please don’t misunderstand me. I do not wish to challenge your views. You have every right to believe what you believe and I am not here to judge.

      I just think that there is a lot in this world that humans don’t fully understand yet. So to tell someone in such final terms that they can ‘never’ change is to take away all hope from them. I don’t know if anyone deserves that.

      I am not defending HG in particular or trying to minimise the reality of what he is. I am just saying that with time and knowledge, most things do actually change. Never say never, as the saying goes.

      1. windstorm says:

        Wiser now
        I understand what you mean. I used to say always and never a lot, but try to qualify them now. Things are rarely always or never. There seem to be usually exceptions. Maybe the one true “always” is that there is always an exception. 😄

        1. WiserNow says:

          Hi Windstorm,

          Yes, I think that way too. There are so many different examples and possibilities that I believe there are exceptions and differences, even though they may be very slight.

          Everything changes and evolves with each day, even so slightly or at a slow pace that it may be impossible to see, but I think that things generally don’t stay the same forever.

          Having said that, I know that narcissists don’t have the capacity to change their innate personalities, however, with enough collective social knowledge and awareness, who knows what can be discovered and what people will be potentially capable of.

      2. Mona says:

        Hi Wisernow,
        the words “always” and “never” belong to the narcissistic vocabulary. It is normally part of their “language” to manipulate others. I used these words to express, that I actually see no hope of change for them. I paint people like him black . And there is no change from black to white possible anymore. It is a hard judgement and a clear statement. It is a life-decision.
        I do not want to have people like him near to me.If it would be possible I would avoid these kind of people in all parts of my (private) life. But it is not possible although I wish it could.. And it seems as if the world changes more and more into a world of narcs. At the moment there are too many of them. And too many of them have too much power (political situation)

        I do not think that HG looses hope through my statements or that he is hurt in any way. He probably is amused about my comments and nothing else or more seldom I cause some fury secretly (he would not admit it) . He is proud to be a “bad boy.” And of course there are some other aims too (which he had told so often). It it is not my task or my need to heal him. This is the task of psychologists (who will be in despair with him very often).

        I think, I bring a little bit salt to his blog. Therefore I am not blocked, which he could do easily. It is his blog and he allows comments or he does not.

        I believe, you just look at it from the view of an empathic individual.

        The narcs (including HG) instead see no need to change. Their behaviour helped them in a lot of situations of their lives and it is the result of a long-term development and a genetic disposition. They have been successful with their strategies and therefore they will not change them. The graved or never-existing conscience and the lack to bind to another human is another huge advantage for them. And they like to destroy.

        Therefore I do not care for their feelings anymore. No hope, no trust, no compassion, that is the best I can do. I give them, what they want (emotional attention and some negative fuel) and go my own way.

        I am still on this blog, because it is interesting and he did not block me.

        I have no hope, not a iota (as HG would say).

        1. WiserNow says:

          Thank you for your reply Mona. That’s fair enough, you are entitled to your views and your true feelings. I am not here to argue with you.

          What I do find in your reply is that you are quite proud of your own narcissistic traits and you have a tendency sometimes of making “empathic individuals” sound as though they are a bit stupid or weak or common. That’s just my opinion.

          Hope is not the same as being blind or wearing rose-coloured glasses. It’s not the same as being idealistic or caring for someone’s feelings.

          Sometimes hope is to have courage and to try again when you have faced numerous failures and feel no energy to keep trying. Sometimes hope is to believe that even though you feel completely lost and alone, there is a way out and that you can somehow feel strong and happy again.

          Sometimes we look to other people for hope because we simply cannot find it in ourselves anymore. This is not a weakness or something to be ashamed about, even though we do feel ashamed and the world is made in a way to make us feel ashamed.

          I know that by having hope and by persevering, I found my way here to this blog too, and I’m very grateful for all the knowledge and information I found here.

          True empathy is not a weakness or a blindness, it is a strength. When I see inspiring documentaries of people who have overcome debilitating injuries, or found a breakthrough therapy or solution for seemingly impossible illnesses or situations, it is because they believed in something, or they had compassion and the strength to act on that compassion. It was not easy or fast, and most people would give up before they even started, but it ended up with good results. It also takes hard work, resources, money and the support and freedom to fail and try again. I am also a practical person and I acknowledge that. The point I’m trying to make is that without hope, nothing would ever improve.

          I feel that none of us knows everything there is to know about anyone or anything, not even our own selves. We are living beings, changing and evolving each day and learning from our experiences. I am not saying that you have to have hope, trust or compassion for narcissists. Not at all. I just think that if you close that window of hope completely, you may be at risk of closing it on yourself as well. I would not like you to do that 🙂

  19. 69Revolver says:

    No, I’ll never be enough for you, Narcopath. Not even Aphrodite could quell the adoration, the need for idolatry, nor love you require.

    Two days ago, I reaquainted myself with another love from my past. A love from 27 years ago. He asked to see me. Sadly, time and experience has eroded him. I believe another Narc has jaded him just as you jaded me. The sorrow of seeing him is palpable because he was a kind, gentle soul from my past. She must have drug him through hell. I don’t understand the rage that is within him now but I’ve an idea. And I can’t be in the presence of such ire. How I remember the gentle love making, the milkshakes that I craved after our coupling, the time he gently held my hand while we attended a reading of, “The Tale Tell Heart” on Halloween. Such sweetness.

    The kind he & I despise so much has morphed him into someone who scares me now. I remember the gentle memories but she has changed him. My senses pick up that he wants to renew a life together. But yet again, a Narc has ruined things. I’m so very sorry. We must part, yet again.

    Fond memories always~

    1. NarcAngel says:

      Gotta watch those old loves that pop up. Were you very young and are you sure it is as you remember? Do you remember why you broke up? I ask because you said you sense that he wants to renew things even though this contact is very recent (red flag) and this past loves popping up seems to be a recurring narc pattern. I could be wrong as I dont have much to go on, but after I read your post all I could think was: If she doesnt proceed with him she may have just dodged a bullet.

    2. Mona says:

      thank you for your kind comment. I believe you misunderstood me a little bit or maybe we actually have different opinions. I do not close the window of hope, not at all. But I concentrate on other persons. I have had some successes with people, where every-one said, there is no hope, that he-she…..I gave them so much hope and encouraged them, that they became successful. If it was a disease or an exam, they succeeded. I do not want to brag about it, but it happened that way. The difference- these people wanted help !! and needed someone who actually believed in their ability to succeed. They needed a second ego to make them strong and to make them fight for their life. And I was satisfied, when I saw them a lot of time later and they said, that they are happy now.
      I do not see empathy as a weakness, I see compassion for narcs as a special weakness. That is true. Narcs want to abuse and they throw it into our faces.
      I believe, it is a real failure to try to change or to make someone understand again and again, although he shows clearly he is not interested in change or makes false promises. My new rule is – give them two chances and if they do not use these chances – let them go their way with someone else.
      And yes- I am proud of my narcissistic traits. Former I have had no idea, that I have some dark narcissistic traits. And I have had no abilities to defend me. That is different now. I do not think that I abuse them to cause harm to someone (except HG, who gets some provocation by me), but I use them. I manipulate people to make them strong, I show some power to people, who do not want to listen… I play games.
      And I improve my abilities.
      Yesterday I have had such an event. A big guy with a lot of tattoos and a furies expression in his eyes threatened me in my car. I have had done nothing wrong, he did not obey the rules. He shouted at me and then – I could not resist – I shouted at him, “Do you really want that I do come over to your car? Be quiet at once. Quieeet!!
      This guy was so confused that a small woman threatened him. He did not look like as if ever a woman had threatened him.
      He let me go and was submissive for a moment. I know that was dangerous but it was a lot of fun too…. I left the place very fast…
      His confusion would not have lasted very long….
      Sometimes it is only a game of deceit…Even harmless little birds or other animals use these tricks to defend their nests. Otherwise they would have no chance against aggressive predator birds.
      And if I use this picture of little birds.. they would never show the predator bird their nest or even try to help a predator bird to survive because of some misleading empathy. “We are all birds.”
      Maybe it is a ridiculous comparison. But it shows, what I mean. They know instinctively, these birds are raptors and therefore to avoid or if that is not possible to deceit through tricks..

      I do not think that empathic people are weak, stupid or common. But I actually think, that they make a big failure to trust the wrong ones or to support the wrong ones or do not want to change themselves to learn how to defend themselves…. I cannot understand, that empathic people do not want to accept reality. There are raptors in the world and they can`t be changed. It is against their nature. They want to abuse!!!
      It is their need and a force to do it. I would be positively disappointed, if HG would change…But I believe, he will not disappoint me.

      At last, I do not think, that manipulation or some kind of deceit is morally wrong, if you use it for good things and it is not used to harm anybody else. I am still a harmless bird. At least I think so.

      I do not believe, that I insult someone or that I am aggressive to someone (except HG of course) and I do not want to make you feel bad in any way. I only want to make you wake up and change your attitudes to defend yourself better against raptors.

      I still have hope for (overly) empathic people. I have been one of them in the past too.

      1. WiserNow says:

        Thank you for your answer Mona.

        You have explained your views very well and I understand you.

        This conversation started because of the use of the words “never” and “always”. Perhaps you are right. I know from experience that it’s much safer to believe there is no hope at all when it comes to narcissists, and sociopathic/psychopathic people in general. As things stand now, they will “never” have the capacity to change by themselves and from their own individual motivations. That is the stark reality we live in.

        I still think though, that “reality” itself is something that is not always set in stone.

      2. Narcissists Cartoon says:

        Hello Mona,

        I hope you are doing well.

        I just wonder about one thing, would you mind if you tell me how aware are people in your country about narcissism and narcissistic abuse? (You don’t have to mention your country name).

        Many Thanks,

  20. Quasi says:

    I very much like this article. I like the style of writing, which I believe to be open and clear, and very informative. It exposes the darkness of motivations from the core in surprisingly beautiful way.

    It sounds like an exhausting groundhog day. I can only imagine that the goal posts keep moving! and that the need for ever increasing potency of fuel is required, higher levels of character traits and residual benefits. No one will ever be enough, it will always go stale.
    But this is not about the person targeted, the person can not account for the narcissists lack of object constancy and relations, they can not account for the narcissists need to control and superiority.
    It is not personal that the targeted person “is not enough”, no one can be enough to the narcissist. Not even the narcissist themselves can be enough, goal posts must move continually… it’s never enough because there needs to Be a motivator! There needs to be an aim/ a goal/ a target. Something to strive for.

    We see what we aim at !

    I may be very inaccurate in my perception of how it must be for the narcissist, because I am not a narcissist. This is just how it has presented to me.
    This is also a very key reason for why I would not change from being an empathic person, as I do not require someone else to be my sanctuary.

    1. BH says:

      I loved your post. Dealt with a very successful Narc 23yrs my senior and still wonder why I wasn’t enough. I think you are spot on. He’s a business man had a rep for being a serious ladies man now pushing 70 I figured he’s slowed down and would be smitten with me due to my age for quite awhile. He told me in the beginning when he does business he always thinks what’s next.. I now realize his thinking is the same when he’s captured his target.

  21. I ❤️ Narcsite says:

    Britney Spears- Oops!.. I Did It Again

  22. Kim says:

    We let them down!!! Excuse me while I go puke……

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