Who’s The Daddy



I remember when I first met you. It was on a dance-floor and of course I caught your eye, I wanted you to catch my eye. I always draw those needed admiring glances when I move through a crowd but whilst those were required and welcome, I was focussed on ensuring you noticed me. I knew that you would. It was just a question of time. It always is. I was stood near one of the bars.I always chose this bar as it was elevated allowing everyone to see me and allowing me to see everyone and it was from this vantage point that I observed you. I saw you enter the room, your tight as tight could be dress already turning heads and you smiled, winked and blew kisses as you walked down the steps onto the dance floor as if everybody in the club was there for you. You were confident alright but you were over confident and I could see straight through that. I kept watching you as you flirted with the men nearby, irrespective of whether they were with another lady and you seemed oblivious to the hateful stares you received from the handful of girlfriends or wives whose other halfs you flirted with. I was interested in you already. If I had a Spidey sense it would have been tingling.

Your lithe frame entered the dancefloor and you felt that the coloured lights and throaty bass were all there for you as you began to dance. You caught the eye of several men and one by one they tried to dance with you .I could see you smiling to yourself as you turned your back on those you deemed beneath you. Each of them was well-dressed and good-looking but you rejected them. You milled around the dance floor until you neared your target, a handsome chap but he was older than those you had rejected and he was your choice. You pulled the chosen one towards you and you began your dance with him. I could see the way that you were grinding against this man on the dance floor was provocative and suggestive. You maintained eye contact with him, as if letting him out of your sight would cause him to disappear. Your eyes burned with wanton desire and your undulating and writhing was most definitely sexual in nature. The sexual aggression flowed from you and this caught my interest. You appeared as a bright dot on my radar and I knew that I needed to learn more.

It was not long before this dance partner was cast aside and replaced by a tastier and more attractive prospect. Me. You draped your arms about my neck as we danced, ground your crotch into my thigh, turned and pushed your pert posterior into my crotch and it was clear you wanted to seduce me. I played along, reciprocating the movements, letting my hands glide across your body as I eventually steered you across to the bar area and sat beside you on a couch as I ordered us both a drink. This was the first time that I had seen you be still and it allowed me to appraise properly your appearance. Your hair, a dirty blonde colour was not cut but rather chopped short, sticking out in a variety of angles which gave the appearance of not caring but most likely had been carefully pulled and twisted into place before a generous layer of hair spray was applied. I reasoned that you wore your hair short because as a child you were denied the right to have it cut short. You always had to have it long and golden, like the hair of a princess. I bet your father would read you stories about Sleeping Beauty, Snow White and Rapunzel as he stroked your hair, telling you how beautiful it was because it was long. I imagined that you wanted to cut it as you got older, the length being difficult to maintain but moreover too symbolic of the safe, suburban and middle-class upbringing you had received when you wanted to rebel. I bet you fought to have that hair cut even just by a few inches but you were forbidden from doing so and now this punkish, chopped and almost butchered hair style was the two-fingered salute you had given to your past. It screamed its story to me since I recognised it from a mile.

Your lipstick was bright red, your eyes framed by black mascara, eye liner and a battleship grey eye shadow. You were thin. Stick-like and I recognised such a frame. You stared at me as you sucked on the straw sliding it in and out of those pursed lips as you tried, without subtlety, to suggest what I might have coming my way. You were much younger than me. I would imagine at least fifteen years between us. Nowhere near illegality of course, that is not my penchant at all, but a sufficient age gap that was noticeable and of course something they would comment on, hewould comment on, if they ever met me. If.

I saw the tattoos on your arms, great sleeves of floral designs and also similar on your thigh as your already short dress rode up as you sat on the sofa. I could see the design was intricate and extensive across your left thigh but it did not mask the line of scars completely. That neat and ordered row of incisions that had been made in your thigh, like notches on a bedpost. They brought you relief, temporary and momentary, but they also shamed you and thus you sought the ink in an attempt to mask those wounds in the same way that I knew this overt  confidence, flirtation and sexual aggression was just a mask as well. That light on my radar shone brighter and I could almost smell the fuel that I knew would flow from you freely and readily, just like the blood had flowed down your thigh. I held your gaze, those flinty eyes trying to burn into my mind but getting nowhere, a slight flicker of confusion and then they shifted into conveying that desire you oozed. You had no idea whose web you had flown into but I knew exactly what you were.

“What time is your daddy picking you up?” I asked my question near shouted to be heard over the music playing.

You coughed, the straw shooting from your mouth as you jerked your glass away.

“What? My dad? He’s not picking me up,” you protested. Your expression was not one of mild amusement but rather disdain and irritation. Just as I thought it would be.

“Of course not. Why would he do that when you are coming home with me?” I added with a wide smile. Your eyes widened and you copied my smile.

“I do love daddy issues,” I said quietly.

“What?” you asked unable to hear.

“I said, I nearly missed you,” I replied in a louder tone, “I was about to go home.”

“Well, it is a good job you didn’t,” you answered as you moved closer to me, pressing that fragile and broken frame against me, seeking the warmth, shield and protection that I offered you. You had found your new daddy. I had found a potent new victim.

404 thoughts on “Who’s The Daddy

  1. nunya biz says:

    Oh dear…

    1. nunya biz says:

      “Oh dear…”
      I hate when the comments go wrong. That was wrt checking for tattoos.

      1. Serene says:

        I just thought maybe they all wear long sleeved shirts and turtlenecks and only have sex with the lights off.

      2. nunya biz says:

        Ha! Excuse for a tattoo scavenger hunt.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Forget the tattoos. Its his branding you gotta look out for lol.

          1. IdaNoe says:

            Or perhaps a scarification? After the pattern is cut into your skin, it must be scrubbed daily to prevent it from scabbing over and to get the keloid to form. It’s long, drawn out, painful and has a dramatic effect. 😉

  2. Serene says:

    Do your current IPPS/IPSS/DLS have a tattoo/tattoos?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I will have to check, this may take some time….

      1. Serene says:

        Great! Something to look forward too.

        You have described yourself and I have this image of what you are like in my head. And you have described some of your past relationships. Would you be willing to write about your current girlfriends?

        What do they look like? How are they different from each other? What does one provide that the other is lacking?

        I am curious are they super model material?Or average? Are they classy or trashy? What kind of work do they do? How did you meet them? How long have you been with them?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          All will be revealed in The Asylum of the Grotesque.

      2. MB says:

        I sense another lengthy absence from the blog as he goes through the little black book.

  3. KK says:

    Ramani Durvasula Ph.D., wrote, Should I Stay or Should I Go: Surviving a Narcissistic Relationship. I got three fourths through the book before I stopped reading because it was so bad. She wrote that we choose the narcissist and we need to look at the reasons why we keep doing that. She is no expert.

    HG Tudor
    JUNE 24, 2018 AT 19:21
    Dr Ramani writes nonsense.

    1. Windstorm says:

      When I first saw this all I could think of was that old song by The Clash, “Should I Stay or Should I Go.”

      “Should I stay or should I go now?
      Should I stay or should I go now?
      If I go, there will be trouble
      And if I stay it will be double
      So come on and let me know
      Should I stay or should I go?”

      1. KK says:

        Ha ha ha….now, whenever I hear that song I will think of NPD; ever presence!

  4. windstorm says:

    That’s really good, Twilight! I can see it in my mind. That bear chasing her down so he won’t have to be alone anymore. 😂

  5. WhoCares says:


    “If I were out with a narcissist and we saw a bear, I imagine they’d abandon me to the bear and disappear before I could do anything.”

    Yes, I hear you.

    I verily believe that when in the wilds together with a narcissist – an empath very well may be left to the bears.

    Personally, I’d rather take my chances with a bear.

    1. windstorm says:

      Well to be honest, I’d never go out into the wild with a narcissist if I could help it. All they do is immediately get bored, complain about every little thing, and want to “hurry, hurry, hurry” if I find a spot where I want to linger.

      Nothing ruins time out in a woods like a narcissist. Even the ones who love nature ruin my experience by insisting that everything be done their way – from the pace, to where and how long we stop. And if I am unable or unwilling to comply, they go into a snit.

  6. WhoCares says:

    Thank-you Twilight for sharing your observations.

  7. WhoCares says:

    Windstorm –

    “When I read his “don’t beat yourself up about it”, it set off alarms and red flags in my mind. It seemed so contrary to what he normally would have said. ”

    I wouldn’t have shared this either if I had not read your comment…but I had a weird reaction as well when reading that particular comment of HG’s.

    “Don’t beat yourself up…”

    And I almost ignored it but my brain said that’s unusually casual…lax…or I almost wanted to interpret it as ‘cheerful’ (when considered in relation to other comments of his occuring around the same time) and then I shrugged my shoulders and thought: Well, maybe he’s just very well fuelled at the moment…

    P.S. just putting this at the top because i cannot find a reply button hardly anywhere…

    1. Twilight says:

      Windstorm and WhoCares

      HG stated don’t beat yourself up, didn’t throw up any red flags or trigger me. His intentions and the energy he puts behind his words is not manipulative yet logical. If he was to have said it outside of this arena….I am sure the energy would be very different depending on which stage things were in.

  8. Catherine Parr R says:

    I think the reason this article was partly resurrected/reposted is because one blogger’s profile photo on this site looks very similar to the picture in this article. Very cool! Maybe they are related.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No, it was reposted as it was its turn in the rotation of articles CPR.

    2. tigerchelle78 says:

      Catherine Parr ….Who’s blogger’s photo…. I’m curious….

      1. Persephone In Sunlight says:

        Tigerchelle & Catherine Parr R,

        I’m a little curious, too, about whos’ avatar Catherine may think resembles this blog article photo. LOL! I’m often curious about a lot of things, even when they don’t affect me.
        But I think if HG detected any similarity between the photo submitted by one of his minions, and any posters’ avatar, he would reject that photo, and send his minion back to sifting images for the perfect fit.

        1. tigerchelle78 says:

          Agreed Persephone….

  9. anon says:

    I have one question. What happens to narcissist when he get old and more aware of the fact that he or she will die just like the everybody else? Death is the ultimate lost of control and power, so I would guess this scares the shit out of narcissist. What do you think about death, HG?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      See articles about Death and the two articles called Time and the Narcissist.

  10. Anm says:

    hg, what is your take on Johnny depp and Amber heard? Who was the Narcissist. I wanted to side with Amber, but i found it narcissistic of her to film and make public Johnnies drinking instead of just moving on. Johnny is also so saulky and i feel its almost an unraveling of ego. Not sure. I curious about your take

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Depp will have narcissistic traits, he is an actor of course, but he is not a narcissist. With regard to Amber Herd, there are indicators with regard to her behaviour but I cannot state a definitive view as I have not analysed her.

      1. /iroll says:

        He hit her, and there’s recordings of him berating her. He has a drinking problem and a midlife crisis, as an old school straight man, he couldn’t handle her younger-gen, queer Hollywood lifestyle. Her issues don’t excuse his, he was the perp.

      2. /iroll says:

        Vanessa P is a French feminist, like the Italians—they usually blame the woman, because smart women accept “that men will be men” and women should use their beauty to their advantage, like Venus! —but it’s hypocritical and supports a macho Latin culture. Sure Heard was gold-digging, but Depp was youth-digging – what’s the difference?

      3. /iroll says:

        Depp hit Amber because he was jealous and had alcohol fueled rage fits. He was already emotionally abusive to her, he viewed her as a possession. She was more interested in her friends and parties, couldn’t wait to get out and this was her ticket to alimony. They’re all entitled people. But as a society, men hitting women shouldn’t be acceptable, he could also have put on his big boy pants and divorced her.

      4. Anm says:

        I roll, i have been accused of all the things they accused Amber heard of. I can tell you she is not a gold digger. There is always someone more ugly and boring who has more money to give away. She in relationships with depp and elon musk back to back. They both are extremely rich, but what do they have in common? They are both self made successful people. I’m sure they both radiate magnetism, intelligence amd beauty that people can’t get enough of. I am sure there is something about her that these men choose to publicly make her their significant other. There was just so much mud being throwm


      5. /iroll says:

        Anm, I was being as negative as possible, to say that it’s still even then, not Ok. I can’t pretend to know Amber personally or what it’s like to be a celeb.

        The power-scales in society are tipped against women’s favour, that doesn’t mean I condone selfish behaviour in women, but I “don’t care” about them being held up to some token moral perfection that puts them in a supporting role. Women are imperfect and complex, good and bad, we’re people.

        I can totally imagine Depp being out of his depth. He didn’t like that her attention was so spread out and she wasn’t playing a more traditional wife role. A lot of men get with younger women not realising that it won’t always be flattering for them, they’re not the submissive and easy to tame creatures they’re fetishised as being. Especially women in their 30s – we have youth but also experience, a bit of a deadly combo to the fragile male ego.

        Detour: I think that’s why OKC reported that men see women’s sell-by-date as 22, which just shows how intimidated by ‘women’ they really are. Dating a guy in his 20s would be like dating a kid, i like people with complexity and depth. It’s all so weird, but i think society is basically female-phobic. Despite that, it’s great to be a woman, the pain is worth it!

        I’m curious about HG’s drawing the line, i was wondering if he thought all attractive, successful and/or charismatic people were narcs because they are some ‘super race’.

        I liked an early film Amber was in, “All the Boys Love Mandy Lane”. I’m a bit of a horror movie fan (not all, but some). Especially ones that play with the concept of women’s agency.

        The TV show Killing Eve, is amazing! Just in case anyone shares my fascinations.

  11. WhoCares says:

    T- (i have no idea where this will go; where are all the reply buttons)

    “I hate having roomates, housemates. I really need to find a space I can go be alone.and there doesn’t seem to be anyplace I can go. It’s all a snowball rolling downhill.”

    I know what it’s like living in a situation where you aren’t quite sovereign over your own time. Please make sure you try find the time for yourself – I get up early in the wee hours (when no one else is awake around me) just so I can hear myself think..just journaling or writing posts here. I find it’s been so helpful. I’d rather forego sleep then lose my quiet time any day.

    Also, when things are super tough I try to simplify my priorities and don’t apologize to *anyone* for not being able to accomplish more.

    Please take care.

  12. Anm says:

    borderlines are not narcissist. My mother s a borderline. While it does depend on where one is on the spectrum , most borderlines are not malignant like narcissist. My mother did have the black and white thinking, she was often over enmeshed or neglectful. Her biggest problem was self destruction, which you don’t see much narcissist doing. She would go on junk food binges and constantly ask my dad why didn’t he love her… but he did and he showed her in many ways. It’s a different kind of messed up in the head. There are a lot of celebrity borderlines just like there are celebrity narcissist. Madonna is a narcissist though.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. Borderlines are narcissistic.
      2. Not all narcissists are malignant.
      3. There is an interesting argument about what borderlines actually are.
      4. Madonna is indeed a narcissist.

      1. Anm says:

        1. Borderlines are narcissistic, but not narcissist. Narcissist can also have traits of borderline, but they are usually predominantly one or the other.
        2. Most narcissist, if not all will become malignant to a victim for the sake of self preservation, or facade management. Even my midrange ex would get down right malignant at the end of our relationship. Borderlines do not operate like that. They dont care about the facade or self preservation for the most part and will even damage both out of the chaos they create.
        3. True.
        4. Angelina Jolie is a boderline. She sexualized herself for love and attention, but none of her long term relationships lasted. She stopped seeking attention from men when she had 6 kids. She did continue with eating disorders that did not help her career. Most narcissist parents with money and status will send their kids to boarding schools or micro manage their schedules for fuel, control and facade management. Borderlines like Jolie typically have their kids homeschooled for their own emotional needs. There are accusation of Jolie alienating her kids from brad Pitt. I dont believe she is alienating them to win, or for all the other reasons narcissist alienate. I believe she is per serving that over enmeshment with the kids. So the attachment styles are different, but the wounds and tools for manipulation are similar. Just in my opinion

        1. tigerchelle78 says:

          Exactly, ANM, borderline’s are narcissistic and will usually have traits but they are not narcissists. Yes the manipulations and tools are very similar and that’s why so many get confused. I agree about Angelina too. Good comment!

      2. T says:

        Lol!!! NA! A while back I was diagnosed borderline. Then I was told I wasn’t, then I was. One things about that is borderlines are supposed to be highly sexual. I guess I am, but only with a partner. For me picking someone up at a bar, or online stuff isn’t entertaining fro me. And freaks me out. I like the old fashioned, awkward way of getting to know someone. Lolol! I think I’m outdated. The world has changed without me noticing. Crazy, but seriously.
        I wonder what other’s do, normals, Empaths, and narcissists do??? What are the rules of the ballgame now???

      3. Yolo says:

        Borderline personality disorder have the ability to empathize and we have emotional and sensory skills unlike narcs.

        IMO codependent or more like narcs. They are needy, clingy, selfish, and lack accountability for their own actions. Comfortable as a victim.

      4. WhoCares says:

        “1. Borderlines are narcissistic.
        2. Not all narcissists are malignant.
        3. There is an interesting argument about what borderlines actually are.”

        Could someone (who is more qualified than me to recognize the criteria of BPD) please connect the dots here please!

        1. HG always allows certain conversations or posts as a learning excercise. (Sometimes when we highlight his time and effort as wasteful – there is actually a purpose to it)

        2. HG is about correcting inaccuracies.

        3. Narcissists (HG especially) don’t waste time unnecessarily. (Sometimes certain conversations get more ‘airtime’ then others we deem more worthy – why do you suppose that is?) And it isn’t always about ‘hits’ on the blog – I’m so guessing, anyway.

        Maybe I’m wrong.

        1. NarcAngel says:


          I could be wrong but I dont think youre wrong.

        2. Twilight says:


          You are not wrong

          IMO HG lets everyone have a voice here and those that have no idea what they are provide real examples of what to look for, HG knows yet there is no reason for him to point this out, it does no good to tell the student the answer they will soon forget, yet if they discover it from what they have read they learn the lesson and do not forget.

      5. WhoCares says:


        “The world has changed without me noticing. Crazy, but seriously.
        I wonder what other’s do, normals, Empaths, and narcissists do??? What are the rules of the ballgame now???”

        Glad to see, in your stress, that you haven’t lost your sense humour! Enjoy your ‘beach day.’

        1. T says:

          Love and hugs, and thanks for being here!!!

      6. Agnes says:

        HG, what about Michael Jackson? Was he a narcissist?

      7. Quasi says:

        Who cares,

        I am not an expert in BPD ( or EUPD as it’s also known) but I know people who are.
        My understanding is that the ICD criteria is used in the UK for mental health diagnostics. It is not as elaborate or detailed as the DSM 5 Which is used more in the states.
        Narcissistic traits and many similar behaviours such as projection can be common within the BPD diagnosis. However i can not specify that all people who have a BPD diagnosis are narcissistic, I imagine it again depends on where you are on the sliding scale of sensitivity and/ your overall personality type. Just like empathy is on the sliding scale for all people between empaths- normals- high narcissism and malignant narcissism. So one individual with a BPD diagnosis could have very high empathy and low narcissistic traits and another can be the reverse with lower empathetic traits and more narcissistic traits.

        I have been advised that you can have a co-morbid diagnosis of NPD and BPD in the uk, as they assess from overall traits and presentation- a certain number of features from each description breakdown in the ICD. – it would be called mixed personality disorder if formally diagnosed. I imagine this is possible due to sliding scale mentioned above.

        With reference to your observations on threads of conversation enabled on the blog and focus. I agree with you.
        I believe that HG allows lots of different thoughts in the blog to spark dialogue, and learning.
        He definitely corrects inaccuracies as this is important for learning. I also believe that he engages in conversation purposefully to address the above – and highlight interesting conversations to other bloggers.

        HG has repeatedly advised that narcissists conserve their energy where possible, I don’t believe that he would engage in conversations or respond to things that were not relevant due to this. Especially when he is so busy in all others areas of life. I believe he will use brevity when he feels a response is needed/ useful, or he will not respond at all.

        Just my observations also.

      8. WhoCares says:

        Thanks for chiming in NarcAngel and Twilight.

      9. DUTG says:

        WhoCares, I’ve been operating under that assumption too. I don’t think you’re wrong.

        Twilight, I’ve been dealing IRL with something similar to what has been transpiring on the blog and stand firmly with you. I’ve been speaking out IRL, set my boundary firmly IRL, and adamantly refuse to be sucked into the IRL so-called victim’s blame game. As noted to WhoCares above and in another post where I reference Depeche Mode’s ‘Enjoy the Silence’ lyrics – ‘Words are very unnecessary, they can only do harm’.

        Agter I’ve said my peace, once I recognize there is no willingness on the part of the other to consider how THEIR OWN actions create the disharmony, I refuse to engage any further.

        As Quasi noted, I like to use song to reinforce my learnings. ‘We’re on a road to nowhere…’ (Talking Heads) comes to mind with some people.

        1. T says:

          Perfect !thank you.

      10. DUTG says:

        HG, because of our mutual love of DM and similar ages, I just know I’m your favorite! Total joke that I know you’ll get but just wanted to share my thoughts on the extensive philosophy and wisdom of early DM which has been illuminated by your writings:

        DUTG on GTBR: “in times of caring, help the helpless, but always remain ultimately selfish” (‘selfish’ = protect yourself with healthy boundaries, don’t lose yourself in helping the perceived ‘helpless’)

        HG on GTBR: “in times of caring (about the facade), help the (true) helpless, but always remain ultimately selfish” (in the exploitative kind of way).

        Do I get an A+ HG? Don’t answer. I’m content in my own ability to learn and digest from what you’ve shared here and will be forever grateful for you and your posters for illuminating what I am!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          A- (It is always the case I will want you to keep striving for perfection)

        2. NarcAngel says:

          Yes. All well and fine. Now can you tell us more about Sigmund Freud and his tiger? Good times.

      11. /iroll says:

        T – not all borderliners are highly sexual, or, it’s not that simple.

        I can be sexual, but then also not be interested in sex, at all. I feel very threatened when strange men approach me sexually, i get quite hostile with them.

        I take pride in my femininity, but sex itself, is a bit gross. I’m far more emotional than physical about sex.

        In long term relationships, i can go for months without sex, i’d rather watch a good movie or read a book, or hang with friends or online groups. I’m also fetishistic, i get turned on by strange beauty or my feelings, clinical settings, pain, and high romance or fear.

        When i got with my ‘sex-addict’ narc, i wouldn’t have sex with him the first time, so he strangled me and i had big purple hand prints on my neck. I didn’t struggle. It felt like, deja-vu, hypnotic.

        The next time we met, still not having had sex, we went to read books in a park and he didn’t try to touch me at all. I felt relaxed with him.

        Then we kissed as if drawn magnetically at the same time, and it felt very natural. Most of our kisses were like that. Few men have that kind of confidence, with me anyway. He was intense and i’m passive, so it worked. Until i had boundaries with him, such as – leaving “without his permission” and questioning his attitudes, then he started the bullying and silent treatments, which made me emotionally distressed – and that would go on and on.

        He would tell me i was too much in my head, and put me through more physical endurance sex than i’ve ever had, as, he said “to make me more true to myself”. But it was macho bullshit, he was controling and abusive.

      12. Chihuahuamum says:

        Interesting info and comments on borderlines. Im still learning about bpd. I think its important to learn about to differentiate it from npd. The two are different personality disorders with common traits and similiar beginnings.
        Along my narcissism journey ive also learned a lot about myself and ive found some of the bpd traits fit my personality. I brought this up to a counsellor(not psychologist) i was going to at the time and she felt i wasnt a borderline but going back years ago i knew i had questions about certain aspects of my personality. Id brought it up to a clinicsl psychologist 10 yrs ago these certain traits and she thought nothing of them and we never addressed them. Bpd was never mentioned and i had never heard of it back then.
        I feel bpd is a mix of empath and narcissism. Im a deeply sensitive person and have a lot of empathy towards many even strangers but at the same time have had the black and white thinking and if triggered can become cold and hard if i feel someone has wronged me in some way. Most times i can think on it and come back to rational level headed thinking but the trait of splitting i can relate to bc ive had this happen.
        I can be highly sexual but ive gone spans of time without so i think its really dependant on the individual. I think where this stems from is individuals with bpd that self medicate using sex. Not all are highly sexual all the time or rely on sex to self regulate emotionally.
        I think its important to distinguish the differences between the two bc itll make a huge difference as to how you deal with an individual with one of these personality disorders. I can see how a borderline would be mistaken as a midrange victim narcissist but i personally think the two are different. One has empathy true empathy and the other with npd only cognitive empathy whether they know its not real empathy or not.

        1. NarcAngel says:


          Yes and sometimes you dont even have to look too hard or too far to see a narc that presents as a borderline.

      13. DUTG says:

        Narc Angel my lovely ANN partner! Lol lol lol! Totally forgot about that! I’m crying tears of laughter here! Good times! That and the ‘finger blast’ or something like that post from you still has me belly laughing!!! Remember that one? I’ve thought of it often in recent times because the current ‘green’ commentary totally reminds me of the poster who previously prompted that funny-not funny response from you way back then. Coincidence? DUTG says no.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Hahaha. I cant remember the thread (K will no doubt) but I remember thinking: check this wicked funny bitch. She thinks Sigmund Freud has a lover named Roy and owns a tiger. That was a good thread.

          1. K says:

            NarcAngel and DUGT

            FEBRUARY 6, 2018 AT 02:55

            Remember it was either Sigmund or Freud who got mauled by his tiger, or was it his lion? Can’t remember specifics at this time. Must Google. Anyway, wow! What a day! I think both lions and tigers are magnificent beasts, from afar. So is HG whom I like and am grateful for.

            Narc Angel
            FEBRUARY 6, 2018 AT 19:01
            Are you referring to the flaming Vegas duo of Zigfried and Roy? Or was the Neurologist and co-founder of Psychology mauled by his tiger also? Inquiring minds would like to know.


            Ha ha ha…that was a riot!

      14. Catherine Parr R says:


        You think you might be a borderline? I am not a specialist in that area but your messages seem empathic.

        I have seen a couple of people’s messages here who appear borderline. Reading those comments frustrated me. No way could I be in the presence of someone like that for too long. I don’t know why a narcissist would want that in their life – even for fuel. My external self is quite and controlled and that bpd behaviour would exhaust the fuck out me. Not all is bad with a bpd. Publicly, they can take the spotlight off of me onto themselves – which is excellent.

        Fuel wise, borderlines seem like very low hanging fruit ripe for picking for a narcissist. Or a great on-the-run fuel injectable on a very dry fuel day.

      15. Chihuahuamum says:

        Another distinction is individuals with bpd have the ability to self reflect and look within depending on the severity. Bpd like npd is a spectrum. Narcissists lack the ability to truely self reflect. I think greaters like HG can but only so far. They are never accountable for what they find within.

      16. WhoCares says:

        Quasi, Chihuahuamum & NarcAngel –


        I appreciate your insight (especially in comparing diagnostic tools in the UK and the US).
        I believe that comorbidity addresses part of the issue but that strict adherence to the DSM etc., (without recognizing that such ‘manuals’ evolve over time and are subject to cultural influence) blinds some professionals…


        Interesting…I can definitely relate to some of your observations on yourself and I’m still reflecting on your words…but I think this statement bears repeating:

        “I can see how a borderline would be mistaken as a midrange victim narcissist but i personally think the two are different. One has empathy true empathy and the other with npd only cognitive empathy whether they know its not real empathy or not.”

        Only, I would change up some of the words…starting with:

        “I can see how a *midrange victim narcissist* would be mistaken as a *borderline*…”


        “Yes and sometimes you dont even have to look too hard or too far to see a narc that presents as a borderline.”


      17. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi catherine…bpd and npd are spectrums so you can have varying degrees of personality traits. I have seen some of the traits within myself but id say if i do have bpd itd be very mild. I am very empathetic. I think thats a stigma about borderlines. Ive never been diagnosed but i have seen a few of the traits within myself.
        The more severe would be the impulsive borderline or self harming none of which ive done.
        I think youre right that a relationship with someone with severe bpd would be very exhausting and destructive but remember its a spectrum and many with bpd have gotten help and have gone on to become better people. Sadly npd isnt as successful with therapy.
        Many with bpd feel they are “bad” people and that stigma needs to be broken.

        1. Twilight says:

          Narc Affair

          Do you believe one can be misdiagnosed as BPD and not NPD?

      18. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi twilight…theres always the potential for misdiagnosis.

        1. Twilight says:

          Narc Affair

          This is where things actually bother me, those misdiagnosed as BPD either do not receive the correct treatment and/or if one is not familiar with BPD make those that are seen in a darker light because it leaves an impression on a person that is not familiar.

          1. T says:

            Thank you, Twilight!!! I totally agree with you. I’ve been diagnosed with bpd, and a whole bunch other crap including mental retardation when I was 5, and at 5 put on adhd and antidepressant drugs. I know what was wrong, by that age already I had PTSD. Of course then, I don’t even know if they had that diagnosis? And please understand that I’m only using myself as an example. Lol, still want to save the world. Sometimes I feel I talk about myself too much. Sometimes I feel awkward chiming in, so I don’t, at the risk of saying the wrong thing.
            I’m pretty much a loner these days. I forget how to relate to other’s. Or shit, maybe I never learned. So, hopefully what I’m saying makes sense.
            Sometimes being an empath be like……

          2. Twilight says:


            You are doing just fine. I have not seen you being disrespectful towards anyone, but trying to sort out your own emotions and the why.

            After what you have been through being a loner is understandable, nothing wrong with it, it becomes an issue if you horde yourself up in a room never interacting with others, I have seen this and it is very sad. The worse prison to be stuck in is your own mind. There is no escape from it. Why self talk can be the most destructive IMO. We all put on a mask to “fit in” as we were taught one must be. It is removing it accepting ourselves for who we are, loving and showing compassion to ourselves, perspective starts to change.

            Keep speaking you will find you feet again or if you never had you will.

      19. DUTG says:

        K!!! How do you find stuff so quickly? Do I have to have a Word Press account to be able to do that? I’m so very grateful to you for finding that. Thank you!

        And full disclosure, I was totally serious when I wrote that and wasn’t trying to be funny. Total brain fart. I detest that phrase, but if the shoe fits…

        1. K says:

          My pleasure, DUTG!

          You do not need a WP account to find it. My secret weapon is Google.
          I googled the words from NA’s comment: Sigmund, tiger and Freud and found it by doing a simple google search. You can google search all your comments that way. It’s fabulous. Put narcsite in the search too.

      20. DUTG says:

        K, you were pretty darn funny in that thread too with your reminder about HG and ‘those kind of’ pics. Your cat made. N appearance too! Thank you for posting that link, and please show me how.

        NarcAngel, as HG said in that link, you were ON POINT. After reading through it, I realize I should have said finger ‘bang’ to trigger your memory, not ‘blast’.

        1. K says:

          Ha ha ha…I was reading the comments and laughing. It is fun to go through the old threads again and see all the funny stuff. It reminds me of a high school yearbook.

          Sigmund Freud
          Morse code
          dick pics
          poor kitty

          When you google search the comments, put narcsite in the search bar, too.

      21. DUTG says:

        ChihuahuaMum, thanks for your posts here and all over the blog! I always learn a lot from them!

      22. WhoCares says:

        Twilight et al.

        “Narc Affair

        Do you believe one can be misdiagnosed as BPD and not NPD?”

        I just wanted to clarify my point incase something I said was misconstrued.

        In response to the general commentary – I agree that it is important not to misdiagnose someone…or even to engage in play ‘diagnosis’ – mostly because of the weight we attach to those labels ourselves…Personally, I make no judgement on people who are self-declared borderlines (or officially diagnosed) and my experience with such individuals here are that most of them are lovely, insightful, empathetic people. (So I don’t even understand the point of the discussion on them as good/bad people.)

        However, I do think it’s possible to discern the difference (when in question) between BPD and NPD – especially if the particular individual is put in a situation where their empathy is put to the test…eventually it becomes evident when someone possesses only cognitive empathy. (I’m speaking from real life experiences – I think it’s harder to flush out here.)

        And many commentators here know what it looks like when they’ve engaged narcs their personal life and pointed out to those individuals their lack of empathy – especially in the case of female narcissists.

        1. Twilight says:


          I was asking for Narc Affair opinion not asking if she was stating anyone here was or was not.
          When I asked this I had not read your response to her, Narc Angel and Quasi if I had I would have seen it and not asked.

      23. WhoCares says:


        “I was asking for Narc Affair opinion not asking if she was stating anyone here was or was not.”

        Thank-you for clarifying.

        I originally pointed out HG’s numbered responses because I’m interested in others’ experiences regarding BPD and NPD.

        In particular my interest is sparked by my experience with my mother, who would not exhibit (by the opinions of some) what would ‘typically’ be identified as narcissistic qualities – although HG’s work has helped identify that she is one.

        (So I wanted to ask questions but now I realize this quite a sensitive area and I want to tread carefully.)

      24. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi whocares…ty for your reply and i agree wholeheartedly! Youre right no one should diagnose another or suggest it. Ive been guilty of that and see how its wrong. Only a professional can properly assess and determine if an individual has a certain personality disorder.
        Its also easy to fall into the good or bad game…see narcs arent the only ones to do it.
        I agree the main difference between bpd and npd is true empathy. One has the capacity to feel it the other doesnt. Both are on a spectrum so traits and severity vary.

      25. Chihuahuamum says:

        Ty for your kind post DUTG 🙂 i enjoy your posts as well! I dont always reply but i read most of the posts and have learned a lot thru them 🤗

      26. tigerchelle78 says:

        What is this interesting argument then?

      27. Katalina says:

        Have you written something anywhere about non-malignant narcissists?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I do not categorise our kind in such terms, Katalina.

    2. /iroll says:

      Anm, you got it right re: borderline. You have real experience. Thank you.

      NPD people have low / shallow emotion, borderline people have intense emotions – this emotional intensity erodes the ability to form a supportive structure for the borderliner’s self. That’s literally what defines the diagnosis.

      Personality disorders are ways of coping with underlying conditions, and they vary between people who suffer the same condition. You can alter the coping-patterns by helping someone form better habits and perceptions, which is a lot of work and requires long-term therapy, but not the condition itself. This is how our brains have developed. ‘Recovered’ BPD = BPD – nos, which is like some kind of lower risk for the worse symptoms, still requiring therapy. Preferably lifelong therapy.

      BPD and NPD are completely opposite experiences with different needs to support their internal states, so whatever personality issues a borderline has – if they are narcissistic or not, or sometimes they are, sometimes not, doesn’t change the fact that they lack the underlying neurobiology and motivations that true NPD types have.

      Mixing between diagnostic profiles, is a separate diagnosis.

      1. DUTG says:

        /iroll, thank you! Very informative!

      2. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi iroll…great post and agree!

  13. tigerchelle78 says:

    I wonder if a person with “daddy issues”, would help a person with “mummy issues.” I wonder if that could heal the wound they both have inside them. Who knows?

  14. Catherine Parr R says:

    What does ‘daddy issues’ mean?

    1. windstorm says:

      She felt that she’d never had her father’s love as a child, so now she’s looking for a father figure to “love” her.

      1. Catherine Parr R says:

        Thank you Windstorm. To me the phrase has an incest connotation, almost.

        1. windstorm says:

          Incest would definitely be a “daddy issue.” But so is abandonment or neglect.

      2. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi catherine…daddy issues can be a result of incest but not always. Ive always liked older men but it was bc they matched my personality better. Ive never had daddy issues that im aware of. That said i do love younger men too for their ability to be silly and have fun. I guess it boils down to personality.
        I have seen an example of someone that does and thats an exfriend of my daughters. Shes very promiscous around men and shes only 13. Its obvious. She hangs off them in inappropriate ways and comes off very sexual. I do wonder if she had been molested. Shes definitely neglected. She would stay at our house for days and her mum never called or texted it was always me asking her if she could stay over. I see a lot of these red flags in her. She vapes as well. Has had a much older boyfriend etc. Im glad my daughter no longer hangs out with her. I dont mean that in a cold way but out of concern for my daughter.

      3. WS thanks for explaining.
        Incest is absolute depravity of the highest order.
        Scandalous behaviour I’ve only read in news.

    2. /iroll says:

      People, not gender-specific, who were traumatised by, or had bad relationships with – their fathers. Could have with their mothers too.

      It’s a flippant way of saying that the person hasn’t dealt with those issues and is acting-out. Usually it’s a stereotype about the ‘crazy chick’ who has a lot of sex as a way to deal with emotional wounds. But both men and women can have these issues and it doesn’t have to mean they are punk kids with Freudian / Jungian Elekra complexes (opposite to the Oedipus complex).

      Issues are usually passed on through family relationships, afterall.

  15. T says:

    I have to say this one freaked me out to the core.
    HG , you never cease to amaze!

  16. Spiritual Warrior says:

    HG I think of you as a Thing A robot giving us the 411 of what there needs to be known about your kind. No remorse No empathy. Missing a humanity switch. YOUR INTENT IS TO HURT US human-beings and then you get your fix, your high of your drug…OUR emotions…..BUT whatever you tell us, changing it up or writing books. What changes NOTHING….we find out after the fact, we got fucked by a Narc. You can’t save us or take our pain away..YOU explain our pain..ANGER saved me…AS I got so angry of HOW FUCKING DARE HE TAKE FROM ME AND ALL THE GOOD I GAVE. Then I though if he did this to me…WHO else…ALL OF YOU…WHO AND HOW MANY OTHERS ARE THERE BESIDES YOU????? That was my mission…WE are not dealing with Harveys or Bills or Rapist..We are dealing with emotional Con artist taking from us, our trust…Some of us DID get abused physically and that I am SOOOO SORRY you got a fucking asshole….Just my thoughts for today…

    1. tigerchelle78 says:

      I like your thinking spiritual warrior! You are so right in what you say! Glad there are some other passionate ones like me in here!

  17. WiserNow says:

    This article is very interesting, both in the gripping way the story is written, as well as the dynamic between these two psychological types.

    The girl shows signs of being a borderline personality.

    For anyone interested in learning more about the differences and similarities between narcissistic personalities and borderline personalities, please look at the comment sections on the previously published occurrences of this same article. They are very informative.

    1. tigerchelle78 says:

      Noted and read…. as I suspected much confusion amongst BPD and NPD.
      Being borderline myself, I could see this girl being very much me. Though I’m not tall unfortunately …And I would have done the exact same thing… and I am attracted to older guys, and I also have major daddy issues…
      Usually…Older guys have more experience, class, sophistication, intelligence… and are more grounded. I think they know themselves better and know what they want more. Whereas younger guys, just are still learning, and it shows, they are like little boys… no matter how good looking they are, they would just bore me, and I’ve dated male models before, (but nothing up top ya know…) no appeal there at all.
      There is a certain amount of security and safety that comes with an older guy. They are more likely to be able to provide for you and have a house, car, and be “set up” so to speak. For a borderline, she is often looking even on a subconscious level for safety, and security, although she won’t actually show it, and will be prickly, confusing, give off confusing signals… so to speak. There is always a control battle going on with Narcs and Borderline’s hence why most Narcs don’t bother with us. The narc would have to make the borderline WANT to let her guards down. This is no easy feat! Especially if she has trust issues. Or she will only let you in so far. Then push you away! Depends how damaged she is I guess….

      1. WiserNow says:

        Thank you for your comment Tigerchelle78. It’s very informative and makes a lot of sense.

        When you break down the causes and the emotional motivations behind a person’s actions, like you have done in your comment, there’s a great deal of “logic” in what looks illogical on the surface.

        There are valid reasons there and to the “damaged” person, it’s not disordered. To them it’s more like common sense, until they are hurt enough that they start to see the disorder for themselves.

      2. Yolo says:

        Hi Tiger,

        If you do not mind answering. Have you received clinical diagnosis for borderline personality disorder?

        Now that I’ve found dialectical behavior therapy effective. Ere to the bipolar disorder.

        The challenge is finding the right meds to address our symptoms.

        Best wishes..

        1. tigerchelle78 says:

          Yes, I have been diagnosed by psychiatrist, a psychotherapist, and a seperate mental health nurse since 2012.

    2. tigerchelle78 says:

      But HG doesn’t date borderline’s…. he can’t handle them…. not when there are much lower pickings to be had….

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Nowhere have I stated that I do not date borderlines because I cannot handle them.

        1. tigerchelle78 says:

          No other people have and you’ve not corrected them so I assumed it to be true.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Time prevents me from correcting everything that ought to be corrected.

          2. tigerchelle78 says:

            HG, what are “top of the fuel tree” for you as a Greater Elite? What’s your juiciest fruit? I think the census here is that Borderlines are at the very bottom and low hanging fruit, would this be correct? And if so, why?

          3. HG Tudor says:

            See Fuel.

      2. Twilight says:


        Is it your opinion that boarderliners are at the top to the fuel tree?

        1. tigerchelle78 says:

          I don’t know what you mean Twilight…

          1. Twilight says:

            Do you see yourself at the top of the fuel tree because you see yourself as a boarderline?
            I was asking your opinion tigerchelle78 it was the impression I got from your comment boarderline are higher up.

        2. tigerchelle78 says:

          I just looked back as I forget all the stuff I say…. No Twilight. It is my opinion that borderline’s are hard to control. And most Narcs, even Greaters will admit this. A sense of control/power is something a Narc needs. Borderlines do not give that control over without a good fight or perhaps many in fact. But often we don’t give it over at all, and you end up with a stale mate type situation. We will try to test them. We will spin them around and do all sorts, in an attempt to confuse, put them off, and basically annoy them.
          But maybe HG would be the best person to ask. He would know what is good for fuel. What is your opinion then Twilight?

      3. Twilight says:


        IMO most people would say boarderline is hard to control due to the emotional tantrum they project when they believe they have been “offended” and things can become more on the aggressive side. things being broken, thrown around etc and at times physical violence, not always but sometimes. Many just do not have the patience to deal with such childish behavior and will not look deeper into the why this is going on, easier to say they are uncontrollable and walk away.

        I do not see Greaters having an issue controlling a boarderline to do as they want, push this button here they are gushing positively push this button and they go off on some emotional tantrum making themselves look foolish and would be the easiest to look like the abuser in the relationship.

        There is no challenge. Anyone that can not control their own emotions is controllable, the challenge is finding the breaking point.

        Henceforth low hanging fruit, to easy to obtain the emotional output, no challenge what so ever.

        As far as HG goes he has stated his preference is a Super Empath and why. The challenge is unlocking both the positive and then negative fuel.

        Control is seeing what is and responding to the situation, not what it feels like and reacting to the situation.

        Greaters have no problem controlling their environment, I do not see them having an issue with controlling a boarderline to behave in the manner which suits them, I would venture to say they do it more for the burst of easy on tap fuel and amusement in making one dance for them, due to this they become bored with them quicker. I am not saying this is right to treat a person in this manner, I do not agree yet speaking on my opinion of harvesting fuel, is no different then picking that apple hanging on the lower branches it will sustain you, yet the one at the top will taste much sweeter because one had to work for it vs it being handed over.

      4. /iroll says:


        – bordie here, first of all, let’s not stereoptype bpd which you seem to be doing with the ‘edgy’ stuff. No two bordies are a like. Narcs are also all individuals and of different ‘types’, they are more rigidly patterned than people with bpd though, perhaps because we’re more emotional and responsive to others, while they’re operating from a ‘construct’ that is shut-off both from their own feelings and others. I do agree with this statement though:

        “a stale mate type situation”

        Totally. I’m not naive enough to give up my values and my identity to be controlled by a narc even when i’m going through the throws of abandonment-anxiety, because my splitting began in the first place – as a way to ‘hold onto myself’ during severe abuse. So i always choose myself and chosing myself in a situation where i’m abused and abandoned as a consequence, is also a familiar story that i might be re-creating via the narc, in order to get to the root of my issues. Which, i now realise – is not just abandonment, but a deep-rooted fear of autonomy. I am actually acting out my own struggles against internalised helplessness with the narc, so i am really rebelling against them. The narc can’t even begin to understand that kind of complexity, they’re not trying to get ‘more real’ and aren’t interested in psychodramas. They’re emotionally shallow and the higher-functioning types are also more practical. I’m the ‘creative’, they’re the ‘manager’.

        But then again, another bordie might? Sure i manipulate, seduce and deny back, but i’m really looking for authentic intimacy and catharisis and they’re just not. They’re tragic like that, and at some point, i have to let go. I’m not sure if ‘ego-wound’ is quite the same level of suffering i go through, either., because bpd is emotional agony. It’s all quite the downer. It does challenge one’s projections, which is helpful if you can deal with the trial by fire.

        In the end, i’m stronger than a narc – if having personal integrity, emotional and intellectual depth is considered to be strong. If just repressing all your feelings to have hollow relationships and sucesses, is your jam, then narcissism is stronger. Narcs are simple enough to be able to shut out complexity in order to be ‘Kings of the hill’ – and no matter how pathetic and obvious it seems, they believe it, and that gives them energy. It’s a solution, for them.

        I think that the narc over-identifies with the ‘authoritative father’ – aka superego, they are fixated on power. Bordies over-identify with the ‘abused mother’ and are seeking love, at the cost of ambition. It’s an imbalance that is part of the same construct, but oppositionally polarised. Neither situation is ‘healthy’.

        But would you rather fight the narc’s battles, or your own?

        1. tigerchelle78 says:

          I don’t understand how I’m stereotyping the borderline. But otherwise I agree with what you’ve said.
          I have enough battles of my own to fight. I’m not sure I was trying to fight other battles was I? If I was, how am I doing this?

      5. /iroll says:

        – also tiger78, when it comes to antisocials who get ‘fixated’ on you, the words: misogynistic torture-porn, comes to mind. That has haunting, disturbing effects, because they do it to vent their inner emptiness, and the deeply bitter and resentful pain that comes from that. It’s not a fun game, it’s nihilistic and full of illusions. Double suicide might be romantic in the classic sense, but murder isn’t.

        The idea that ‘we hurt the ones we love’ – is a toxic one and shouldn’t be romanticised. Though, our culture does just that and it keeps feeding our addictions to love-substitutes. Also, do you really want to be in someone’s ‘feedbag’?

        Be strong, be the love you want to see in the world. More than that: love should not conquer *everything* it shouldn’t be used to make garbage into gold. The power of NO is also one that should be in our arsenal. Once you can say no at the beginning, you’ve won. All the drama is just leading to that conclusion anyway.

        There are also others who do appreciate and can support us. Bordies can’t separate sex from love, so it’s best not to become addicted to abusers, because then it’s harder to enjoy being with genuine lovers and deal with more everyday problems. We shouldn’t compete with macho behaviour, because it’s just not who we are, if we’re tough it’s because we’re world-weary. The joy of living is the real goal.

        1. MB says:

          “do you really want to be in someone’s ‘feedbag’?”

          Great visual reminder!

        2. tigerchelle78 says:

          No /iroll I do not want to be someone’s feedbag. Nor am I. I just said that I could see that girl being me, in my late teens/20’s when I used to go clubbing a lot. And met a lot of guys. Lots of them wanted to take me home. But I never went home with any of them. I’ve always said “NO”. I gave them fake numbers. I will only let them in so far. Some borderline’s will have some special traits that maybe an elite Narc is looking for and only he could see. But yes no doubt HG would look for the super empaths out there. As he enjoys a challenge. The very top of the tree as many of you ladies in here are or seem to be. But who’s to say this girl was not a challenge? I’m betting this girl had these “special” traits. The ones that would pull him in. Not the ordinary empaths, even super empaths, will always have these. It’s all about what makes the Narc “feel” powerful and good at the end of the day. The fact that she came across all confident and like she has it all together but yet he could see that she was insecure, and was trying to hide scars. Not all men would pick up on that. She was trying to hide probably her more childlike side. Some women just are confident, and that’s that. But that’s a bit ….well boring….
          But he could see a weakness in this one’s armour.
          This is attractive to even normal men, let alone Narcs, as it appeals to a man’s, “I want to take care of you” nature. Every man out there needs to feel needed. They like to be the man that can take care of you and provide for you and make everything and your world better. They wanna make you happy, and feel loved. They want to be the person that you turn to. Many women nowadays, are all like, independent and we don’t need a man type of shit! That’s exactly what many of these kind of women get. No man. Lol!
          Whether you think it’s jam, or low hanging fruit,….It’s not what you have, but how you use it! It doesn’t matter where you are on the fuel tree…. what matters is that you are the only fruit he is looking at and has his full interest in. But whatever happens, at the end of the day, she will only keep him happy for so long…. then he will be off onto his next conquest of perhaps higher fruit.

      6. shesaw says:

        I was told that Borderliners = Covert Narcs. So I can imagine a Narc will take the challenge but I suppose it will turn out to be horrible for the both of them.

      7. I ❤️ Narcsite says:

        I read somewhere that HG likes borderlines because they provide good fuel, but that after a while certain behaviors annoy him. Or something like that.

        I believe from what I have learned from reading HG’s books is it depends on what school of narcissist you are dealing with.

        My ex is a lesser narcissist and he would enjoy having a borderline. Because he wouldn’t have to put in much effort to extract fuel. And then he would use the behavior against them making them out to be unstable and having mental issues. So it would work in his favor.

        I believe most midrange narcissist would find a borderline to challenging.

        As for a greater narcissist, I would think that they would prefer a brand new toy. One that hasn’t been broken in. One that they can take the pleasure of breaking themselves. I would think a greater would
        want the brand new Barbie that comes with the barbie jeep and mansion. And then they would take pleasure of cutting off all her hair, setting her crotch on fire, wrecking her jeep and burning down the house.

        Then a midrange narcissist comes along and sees a used toy. And since they disguise themselves a good people. He says ”hey little lady I see your house has burned down. You should come stay with me. I am your hero.” then he gets you pregnant and fucks your little sister.

        Then you have the lesser narcissist. He says ”look, mom, a broken toy. I want it. You’d better get it for me or I will steal it”

        But then again fuel is fuel. I suppose a narcissist will take whatever they can get.

      8. quasi7 says:

        I love narcsite-

        I really liked your use of analogy’s in your post, very effective for expressing your opinion.
        Good read – thank you

      9. Anm says:

        You need to obviously read sitting target

        1. tigerchelle78 says:

          Anm why is that?

      10. I ❤️ Narcsite says:

        In my opinion it doesn’t matter if we are low hanging fruit or higher fruits. We are all on the tree. We are nourishing, succulent and sweet.

        Unlike the narcissist all three schools are beneath us. They are the rotten apples laying on the ground, rotten to the core and infested with worms.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Not quite, we are sweet and delicious on the outside but empty on the inside.

          1. windstorm says:

            “sweet and delicious on the outside but empty on the inside.”

            Like the chocolate rabbits that come in Easter baskets? Ha, ha, ha! Now I have a new visual image for narcissists! Thanks, HG!! That really works for me! Coveted but a little creepy and ultimately disappointing – just like hollow chocolate Easter bunnies. Lol!

          2. K says:

            Every time I see a hollow chocolate bunny I am going to think about that analogy. That was a good one!

          3. MB says:

            I agree with that statement HG. Some are incredibly yummy. Others make you want to vomit. I don’t know if you’re familiar with Dr. Ramani, but she says narcissists are great fun to run away with on a two week holiday to Paris, but you must set an expiration date on the relationship. She also says it’s always a must to have a few narcissists if you’re having a party to keep the conversation and excitement going, but DO NOT go to them with your problems and vulnerabilities. I’m pretty sure she’s got them pegged! There’s pros and cons, you just have to know what to partake in and what to leave alone!

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Dr Ramani writes nonsense. You do not set an expiration date on a relationship with a narcissist, that is naïve and dangerous. You obey the first rule of freedom – once you know, you go, you get out and you stay out. If you do not, that two week sojourn to Paris spikes your emotional thinking and so you end up wanting more and succumbing more to demands of the narcissist until it goes wrong.

          5. MB says:

            As ever, you are correct HG. But outside of an intimate relationship, don’t you think narcissists can add value and spice to life? I don’t want to believe there are zero redeeming qualities. I’d be lying if I said some hold no value in this world. You are a prime example of such.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Yes we bring many things to the party and you can maintain a NISS relationship with a narcissist and it progress with little complication – friends are the ones who have the greatest likelihood of non-complication. Keep in mind though there may be a risk of the relationship becoming intimate or if you were in an intimate relationship with a narcissist (you remain viewed as Former IPPS or ISSP) even though you are now treated as non-intimate, there remains a risk of intimacy being re-instated with the problems that flow.

          7. MB says:

            Thank you for all of your wise advice, HG. I’m glad to have presented such a valuable teaching opportunity for us all.

            This message was brought to you by the naivety of Ms MB 🙂

          8. tigerchelle78 says:

            An NISS has got to be the best kind of relationship you can have with any Narc I reckon. No complications. No strings. No abuse. No intimacy. Just friends. I would be fine with that. It all goes wrong when you get too close to them. And the thing is, they don’t actually like it either.

          9. T says:

            I’ve heard that during sex a hormone is released in women that shift us into love mode. When it happens to guys, it’s usually later on, if they do in fact fall in love, their testosterone levels drop.
            I wish I could remember what hormone it was, but I know I’ve sure been hooked.

          10. HG Tudor says:

            Orgasm, T, it is called orgasm!

          11. T says:

            Omg! Lololololol ok…orgasm!

          12. K says:

            Ha ha ha…that was good!

          13. MB says:

            Oxytocin. The cuddle hormone. (Look away HG). It creates bonding. It is stimulated during sex, childbirth, and breastfeeding. That’s why you feel so connected after love making. And that’s what creates the love sex addiction, the narcissist’s best friend.

          14. K says:

            (Look away HG)…ha ha ha, thanks for the laugh!

          15. MB says:

            The word cuddle probably makes HG heave, K! I know how he feels about spooning. I was only trying to protect him!

          16. K says:

            Ha ha ha…he shuddered at the thought of being “warm and fuzzy” so your concern is understandable.

          17. MB says:

            Looks like I’m a flunkie today. Slap my hand with a ruler and I’ll write 100 times: HG will not lead me astray, HG will not lead me astray, HG will not lead me astray…

            Thank you for steering me back on the road, Sir. Dr Ramani writes nonsense, she will steer you in the ditch. Dr Ramani writes nonsense, she will steer you in the ditch. I think I’ve got it. Don’t listen to her about narcissism. Hopefully she has a better grasp on the psychology of eating and weight loss.

          18. HG Tudor says:

            Don’t beat yourself up, just remember that there is only one source that truly understands narcissism and will give you the tool to achieve freedom – me.

          19. MB says:

            Beating myself up is my default setting, Sir.

            Yes, I agree, you are the one and only source for laser accurate information on narcissism. She popped up on my YouTube home due to my Knowing the Narcissist activity. I liked her personality and she is an intelligent lady.

            What I’m craving is some fresh HG YouTube action. My headphones are all charged up with nothing to do. My ears are lonely. Ha ha

          20. NarcAngel says:

            See, that could be taken as a lesson. When HG said dont beat yourself up did anyone feel for a second: “aw that was nice-he cares”? He was displaying cognitive empathy. He does not require our fuel here and it is not the case that we are in any danger, but in real life a narcissist would say that to endear himself to you. They not only do not care if you beat yourself up but would also enjoy if you provided footage, but it sounded great right? I’m not saying this was HGs intention, its just that I see many times where people point to things narcissists say, apply an empathic meaning when the narcissist is really just salami slicing and then are confused when their actions belie their words. This struck me as an example of that-something small and easily overlooked but effective in making them appear capable of empathy.

          21. HG Tudor says:

            Entirely correct. I stated that from a perspective of logic as opposed to from a position of caring, because I do not.

          22. MB says:

            You had to go and take it back, now you’ve hurt my feelings!

          23. MB says:

            What?!? You mean HG doesn’t have a soft spot for me? You’ve bursted my bubble NA!

            Seriously, good looking out! His cognitive empathy washed right over me without a second thought. I’ve got to be more aware.

            “Would enjoy footage” you kill me!

          24. windstorm says:

            When I read his “don’t beat yourself up about it”, it set off alarms and red flags in my mind. It seemed so contrary to what he normally would have said. Immediately without conscious thought I went on guard, then felt stupid for over reacting. But it left me feeling unsettled…..

            I’d have never mentioned it if you hadn’t brought it up. If it were a lesson, I think I’d score a “paranoid.” Lol!
            But then, as I often remind myself, “even paranoids have real enemies.” Paranoia and skepticism have served me well over the years! 😝

          25. K says:

            I did the same thing. That CE can mimic the “feels” and trick you if you aren’t careful.

          26. K says:

            I agree; he appears “warm and fuzzy” but he is not. Sugar coated poison.

          27. windstorm says:

            Not meaning anything against the Dr R who said this, but the 2 week in Paris comment sounds like something another narcissist would say. My narc friend in NY has made many such comments (and done many such nights, weekends or short vacations).

            A person would have to be just using the narc unemotionally like a narc does to victims in order to pull it off. Or like you say their ET would ensnare them and create an emotional connection to the narc.

          28. tigerchelle78 says:

            See if Narcs could go with other Narcs, then they could both pretend not to love each other, use and abuse each other as much as they like, and then both have a massive Narc fight, and devalue one another with their various manipulations and be done with it. Both won’t care, nor get hurt, and just move on to other Narcs.
            It would leave all the rest of us alone!
            I think there should be a rule that only Narcs can have relationships with other Narcs. 👌🏻

          29. I ❤️ Narcsite says:

            HG, of course, you are. I was way off. No rot, no worms just ”sweet, delicious and empty” I got it. Thanks for clearing that one up. No prize for me today. Lol.

          30. HG Tudor says:

            Your prize if knowledge IHN.

          31. IdaNoe says:

            A chocolate Easter bunny!

          32. NarcAngel says:

            You can liken narcs to cotton candy.

            Spun with sugar and sickeningly sweet, but beckons you for just a taste, even if only for no other reason than nostalgia. You try to hold onto it but it melts and disappears quickly while leaving just enough residue to cause rot and a craving for more. You believe this time you will get it to last longer…………

            It won’t – but oh the memories………

            Apologies if this posts twice and worded differently.

      11. /iroll says:

        Landing this somewhere – narcs aren’t empty on the inside – they’re partially empty. They still have emotion and self-interest, that’s why they need ‘fuel’ – and they’re full of rage, envy and resentment that never gets processed but stays festering, so yes they are toxic. That’s another word for rotten. The sweetness of the outside also turns toxic when they become abusive and that has a destructive effect on you.

        Narcy’s face wasn’t just blank, it could also smirk and look bitter and covetous. Emptiness means without meaningful connection to others, not without emotion or ego.

      12. /iroll says:

        T – the hormone is oxytocin (the other O)

        Women produce higher amounts of it than men, it makes sex more meaningful for us – it triggers empathic bonding and deeper sexual feelings.

        It also allows us to have higher facial recognition and other-boundary perception, in other words we bond because we recognise that the other is a unique and separate person, who gives us good feelings.

        NPD types have a much lower amount of this hormone, which means they can’t differentiate between ‘different others’ and the difference of others (in empathically meaningful ways) and lack the **good vibes** that drive us take the risk of trusting another with our intimate selves.

        1. T says:

          Yes, thank you /iroll. Lol, the other O!!!!
          This is why my legs are closed so I can heal, and not have to deal with those feelings. I Don’t want anyone until I’m convinced I can handle it. And right now would be more hell because my man picker has lost contact with reality.

          1. NarcAngel says:

            Who needs a man. A vibrator never lies. Unless you name it Pinocchio and demand it.

          2. T says:

            Omg! Alright, I admit it! I’m a prude about those things!!! Don’t get me wrong, I love sex, but have issues around it. Either way I feel sorry for the next guy!!! This is why I’m under construction for at least the next three years or as long as it takes. I’m one fucked up chick!!! ( at this point in my life.)

      13. Quasi says:

        Wow – finding a reply tab took some time…. T you crack me up something chronic… loving HG’ s answer too…. drinking a cup of tea again though .. i should stop reading / laughing and drinking hot drinks in conjunction!

      14. Quasi says:

        I roll,
        I adore your posts, thank you .
        I have learned a great deal from reading your posts, on so many different subjects.

      15. Chihuahuamum says:

        Vibrators batteries run out tho 😄

        1. NarcAngel says:


          Haha. Stop buying batteries at the dollar store.

        2. windstorm says:

          Buy the multi-packs!

          1. K says:

            WS and NA
            Ha ha ha….or she could go green and buy the manual model. No batteries, no problem. Life is good.

          2. NarcAngel says:

            Theres a crank or solar dildo? Jesus, the tree huggers think of everything.

          3. K says:

            ha ha ha…imagine seeing that thing on a solar charger! However, the crank would be funnier, God forbid it peter out before you were done.

          4. T says:

            Omg!!!! Lmao!!!!

          5. windstorm says:

            “Peter out” 😆

            I feel like I ought to be at the middle school!
            One time a bunch of girls came in my science room laughing their heads off. When I asked what was so funny they said, “you’ll never believe what we learned in history! Did you know there was this famous guy named Been A Dick Arnold?

          6. K says:

            LMAO! That was a riot! Benedict Arnold…ha ha ha…

    3. Chihuahuamum says:

      Hi mb…dont forget HG is not a friend that you know personally. On here its been very positive and altho im grateful for all HG has done i dont think that irl itd be at all the same.
      Narcissists can add spice but cant be true genuine “friends”. Not unless they feel you are not a threat and can be completely controlled. Once you have a voice of your own or go against them in some way you will see the friendship quickly unravel. If youre willing to be a puppet and kiss butt then you can maintain a fake friendship with a narcissist irl. I guess it depends how much if yourself youre willing to give up?

      1. windstorm says:

        It also really helps if your narc “friends” live in another county – or better yet another state! 😄

        I’ve found that physical distance and infrequent contact let me keep my autonomy without ruffling their feathers. And I always drive my own car, have my own money and a backup plan for if they no show. Only disappointment comes from depending on a narcissist for anything.

        No expectations. That’s the way to go with narc friends. That way you can only be pleasantly surprised. But that’s very hard to do. I have to think of mine sort of like an interactive movie or a special event I do, like camping. Can be fun for awhile if I’m prepared and in the mood, but I’d never want to live that way.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Camping is ridiculous. Practicing to be homeless. Why do we work long hours and take ages to find the right house and furnish it, worry about all of the options on our vehicles, and pay a fortune for skin care and toiletries only to go out to sleep,wash, and crap in questionable places in the woods while being eaten alive by bugs and praying there is no posion ivy in the path we are running in order to outrun and not be eaten by the bear that has suddenly appeared. Good lord.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            I will take you camping NA, you will revise your opinion. Nothing like having Poor Soldiers of Windsor as the dawn breaks and a fuel-filled day awaits.

          2. NarcAngel says:

            Well if by Poor Soldiers of Windsor you are referring to the faux french toast and not your entire platoon of half-masted Lieutenants after a night of drinking, I might consider it.

          3. MB says:

            I googled before you said “google is your friend”. Where do you come up with these recipes? Buddha Jumps over the Wall soup? Poor Soldiers of Windsor for breakfast? And you say you don’t like talk about cooking!

            Take him up on the offer NA. (And you won’t be needing to pack Pinocchio)

          4. HG Tudor says:

            I am brilliant but I still need to eat.

          5. MB says:

            Now I know what the brilliant people eat. Buddahs and soldiers! I learn so much here!

          6. Narc Angel says:


            I assure you my only interest would be in having breakfast made for me.

          7. MB says:

            Yes ma’am. That is clear NA. It was still kind of him to offer to teach you the proper way of enjoyable camping.

            I don’t know HG well enough to know, but I would venture to guess that you would be making breakfast for him! Or maybe nobody would be eating Poor Soldiers 😊

          8. K says:

            That all depends MB, is it seduction or devaluation.

          9. MB says:

            Good point K. He said a fuel filled day, so it could be either. I say seduction since he said he could change her opinion of practicing to be homeless. He wouldn’t change her opinion from negative to positive by treating her poorly.

            I just spent way too much time analyzing that didn’t I?

          10. K says:

            Not at all. Careful analysis is how you learn to make sense of things. I think you are correct, NA is a NITS and, since HG wants to revise her opinion of camping, I say seduction, too.

          11. MB says:

            Yay, I passed! When you said NITS, it took me a second. HG doesn’t talk about that one much and all my mind was coming up with was lice eggs when I read it! But yeah, I’m with ya now.

          12. K says:

            With flying colors!

            Anytime you see something that you aren’t sure about just type it in the search bar.

            Tudor Scavenger Hunt:

            a murder of crows
            object constancy
            Humpty Dumpty

          13. MB says:

            Type these in the search bar K? The search bar is my friend? I hope it’s fun. I need a pick me up today.

          14. K says:

            Humpty Dumpty is one of my favorite articles a.k.a. CONTRARIWISE.


            chocolate chip

          15. K says:


            Don’t feel like you have to read all those articles. I just wanted to share with you how I search for articles when I can’t always remember the title.

            I can’t spell very well, that’s why I use Humpty Dumpty or Tweedle Dum to pull up Contrariwise.

          16. windstorm says:

            “Lice eggs” That cracked me up! Nits – the term that strikes fear into the hearts of all mothers of young children (and their teachers, too!).

            Yes, we should know NITS in all caps, also, since that’s what we all are here on the blog. 😄

          17. MB says:

            I know, right. Elementary school, those combs that get the lice eggs out. Pure terror!!! Are you calling me a NIT Windstorm?

          18. windstorm says:


          19. K says:

            My oldest daughter got lice form her cousins (my narc sister’s children) and I spent a great deal of time N.I.T. picking. White vinegar kills all lice on contact immediately, however, it does not kill the nits. It works better than NIX and is less expensive without all the toxic chemicals.

          20. T says:

            Erotic shaped pancakes with champagne mimosas?
            It could work.

          21. windstorm says:

            Run from a bear?!? Don’t you know never to run from a bear? You’re supposed to be making noise as you walk to scare them and if you see one, then stand your ground, wave your arms and yell at them! Of course that’s for black bears. Might not work on Canadian grizzlies. Lol!

          22. NarcAngel says:

            Re: bears
            One school of thought is that you do as you said and puff yourself up and make a lot of noise, but I think that would just piss them off (it would me) so thats out.
            Another school of thought is that you just lay there and play dead (more commonly known as: “The long suffering housewife on a Tuesday night” ploy. This doesnt appeal to me either, so I will probably treat him as a narc and revert to the following:

            Turn to the bear without expression in face or voice and hold up a flat palm to him signalling for him to stop. When he does, I will tell him that I am not here to harm him and not responsible for his anger and unhappiness. That his behaviour is befitting someone who is irrelevant and lacks substance and not the great and mighty bear that he is. Then I will point over his shoulder and announce: Oh look. A group of Empathic campers with a keg of honey.

            AND THEN RUN LIKE HELL!!!!

          23. Twilight says:

            Narc Angel

            Be careful you may cross over to the spiritualism side of things, with all that talking to the bear.

            You turning and running he might be like the Hulk in Rangnorok when he followed Thor back to the ship on that insane planet saying “friend don’t go” , you know you pointing out the honey a group of empathic individuals and one that speaks to him…..he won’t have to walk the wilderness alone anymore…..

            I know you have a little contagion in you.

          24. windstorm says:

            Ha, ha, ha!

            I have actually encountered bears while camping in West Virginia. Two came up snuffling around my tent, so I know exactly how I would actually respond. I totally froze in terror unable to move or speak! My dog jumped up on the cot on top of me and started a deep long growl. Both bears froze, then ran off. From then on, I never traveled without that dog.

            He had his limits, though. Camping out at 29 Palms in California we heard a pack of coyotes, their voices rising and falling in the wind. He burrowed under the blankets beside me, stayed still as a statue and never made a sound. Lol!

            I still never went anywhere without him. The coyote incident just raised my opinion of his intelligence.

          25. MB says:

            Good stories Windstorm! I enjoyed that. Dogs really are man’s (& woman’s) best friend. I can’t imagine life without at least one!

          26. K says:

            We camp so we can embrace our inner troglodyte.

            If you like to read, you may enjoy A Walk in The Woods by Bill Bryson. It is a memoir about two middle-aged men who hike the Appalachian Trail. There are bears, bugs, crapping-in-holes, as well as, some funny moments. There is a movie, however, the book is much better.

          27. windstorm says:


            I thought we camped because we couldn’t afford a motel? That was always my reason.

            Maybe NarcAngel would like that book/movie. Sounds too close to real life for me. I’ve seen all that driving around my neighborhood. I prefer my reading and movies to be upbeat and fictional – not regular life. I see that all the time.

          28. K says:

            Years ago I camped out in New Hampshire to avoid sleeping in the same quarters as an individual that gave me bad vibes and it turns out that the person is a narcissist.

            You could watch Overboard with Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell. Whatever you do, don’t watch American Psycho.

          29. windstorm says:

            Don’t worry. If it isn’t animated, about superheros or takes place on another planet, I won’t watch it. 😄

        2. MB says:

          That’s a good way to look at it WS. It’s an event like camping. Have no expectations and you won’t be disappointed. If you can pull that off, you could have a good time. Id still be hurt if I was stood up. (Contingency plan or not.) Friends don’t do that.

          1. windstorm says:

            No, friends don’t stand you up. And there often is an initial moment of hurt for me. Then I laugh, remember all the ways that particular narc has let me down/been obnoxious in the past, shrug it off and do my alternate plan.

            My narc relationships are all 40+ years, so I know them each very well. When they make plans to do something with me, I’ve got a good idea what the odds are that it will fall thru. Always being aware of that protects me from being hurt much. For me, the really painful things in life are the ones that catch me unawares.

          2. MB says:

            WS, there must be some wonderful qualities to these friendships to have lasted 40+ years. It makes my heart happy that you’ve found a way to enjoy the good without hurting yourself.

          3. windstorm says:

            “When life hands you lemons… “

            I actually have a hard time with other empaths. I am a very weird and bizarre person with many heretical beliefs living in an area filled with fundamentalist, born-again Christians. I also am very sensitive to the energy/emotions of those around me. Empath friends care about me and my immortal soul, so they are always criticizing and trying to change me. I can’t stand people trying to “fix” me and who believe they know better than I do what is best for me.

            My narc friends are all intellectual, highly educated, outgoing and amusing, so they make for Interesting conversation and company. But just as important, they don’t care what I believe. They have no desire to fix me. When I say/think/do something off the wall, they just laugh or we discuss it and they show genuine curiosity- not judgement.

            Also my narc friends have a more limited set of emotions and rarely broadcast any strong emotions that cause me pain. They tend to run on a pretty even keel and even when their fury erupts, it never lasts very long.

            I guess in a way, my narcissist friends are the most predictable people I know. I like predictability. I find it very comforting.

          4. MB says:

            That makes perfect sense Windstorm. I feel very calm around narcissists too. I love the way they accept you as you are. I’ve mentioned multiple times I like their non-judgemental ways. I’ve only see fury erupt twice and that was a CEO I worked with both times. I have little experience in a friend or intimate setting. I live in the buckle of the Bible-belt so I totally get people trying to save your soul. They need to just mind heir own business. As for me, I live and let live.

      2. Lou says:

        I will comment here. I took HG’s “Don’t beat yourself up about it” simply as a sign of the good mood he was in yesterday thanks to the 6 goals England scored against Panama. That is all. 😉

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Ha ha, you nailed it Lou.

        2. K says:

          Ha ha ha…that was funny, Lou! Thanks for the laugh.

        3. NarcAngel says:

          Hahaha. I bet youve nailed that one.

      3. MB says:

        Chimum I’m sure you’re right. IRL HG is positively terrible to some people. He has stated as such.

        I’m not a butt kisser and I can’t be completely controlled. Some of the things in HGs writings and some of the posts here make me physically sick to imagine living with. I would never be a suitable IPPS. That’s a good thing!

        Perfect sentence “it depends how much of yourself you’re willing to give up”. This girl’s used to being too independent to live under somebody’s thumb.

      4. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi windstorm…so true absence makes the heart grow fonder lol i find that works pergectly with my narc mother. We only see each other maybe twice a month and only short texts in between.
        Some people can get along wonderfully with narcs like lietenants and minions bc they conform and be what the narcissist wants them to be. They become a yes sir or yes maam. It suits them bc they like to be followers and benefit from the narc mutually. The downside is being owned and controlled.

      5. WhoCares says:

        “Run from a bear?!? Don’t you know never to run from a bear? ”


        No, no, no…first rub bacon grease on the narc you are camping with and THEN run from the bear.

        1. windstorm says:

          Not sure that would be possible. If I were out with a narcissist and we saw a bear, I imagine they’d abandon me to the bear and disappear before I could do anything. 😝

      6. Lou says:

        Camping is ridiculous. Practicing to be homeless…. You crack me up Narc Angel.

      7. Chihuahuamum says:

        Camping….i used to enjoy it but now not so much. I dont mind overnight once but i much rather day outings. Im not into roughing it 😄
        My friend goes tenting for weeks on end rain or shine ughhh id turn into a grizzley bear 😁

      8. DUTG says:

        Darn! I was hoping it was the soldiers at Windsor with the funny hats. You all may recall I have a fondness for them!

      9. Chihuahuamum says:

        Lol @ whocares bacon grease comment!

        RE: Grizzleys…never panic and run just back up slowly and talk in hushed calming tons and say “nice bear”. Leave them a way to run past you. Many will fake charge and veer off the exception is if they have cubs and in that case play dead and hope for the best outcome 😁

  18. Chihuahuamum says:

    When i first read this and to most unaware it read as an erotic story but now i look at this in a completely different light thru the knowledge of mental disorders.
    This girl has many traits of a borderline. Each one in itself wouldnt necessarily indicate a borderline but all of them together paint the picture of an individual with bpd.
    Shes…impulsive, latches on very quickly, promiscuous, self harming by cutting arms, tattoos all over, piercings, manipulative, looking for something to fill a void, choosing partners that will never work longterm, emotionally disregulated, sometimes a past history of being sexually abused. These are a few i picked up in the story. Shes looking for stability that she doesnt have within as a result more than likely of a lack of stability in her childhood or experiencing trauma of some sort.

    1. T says:

      NA I can relate to this. Since the way of coming into this world because of an affair, I decided very youngthat I would make my own money, and f being a kept woman. Instead I was the woman who found Narcissists to keep. I understand that stems from both parental issues.
      All my life I thought I was ugly, was told I was ugly, and came to believe it.
      The last guy was the best liar I ever met because he was the first guy to make me fully believe I was beautiful, only a few year’s later complaining that he had to put up with my ugly body. It devastated me, in fact it still rips my heart out. That’s why I decided to go on a self improvement, under construction type of thing for as long as it takes, until I’m satisfied with myself. I said 3 years or longer. But then hell, what does that make me? I don’t want to be like my mom and sister. Both were very beautiful and could get any man they wanted. And so they did. Me? I just want to find my own self.

      1. Twilight says:


        “The last guy was the best liar I ever met because he was the first guy to make me fully believe I was beautiful, ”
        It was when he switched gears and started to repeat that which others convinced you to be, is when he started to lie to you.

        1. windstorm says:

          Twilight and T
          I agree that the guy was lying when he started running T’s looks down. When I read that in your comment, T, I recognized that as a standard narc tactic. He’d heard you say negative comments about your looks and he knew that would be a way to hurt you and draw negative fuel. They all do that. Often they just state it calmly like it’s just a fact obvious to everyone. It means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about you and is just a red flag about them.

          1. T says:

            Yes, and hurt like hell. And to this day still it hurts.
            I can’t help wonder if our paths cross again, and I look how I want to look, actually comfortable in my own skin? What he think? Lol probably nothing. This is why I’m working to learn how to love myself, so then I can attract a normal man that doesn’t play games. The games are so old and outdated.
            Anyway, yay, the sun is out. ☺☺☺😎

        2. T says:

          Yes. Hell, he even acted like sex or closeness was a chore to him.
          How do I reconcile my life being torn apart, doing my best to understand what a narcissist is, and finding loving compassion an forgiveness for myself, and yes, even him , and go on with my life?
          I suppose the answers are coming.
          This is going to take a lot.

      2. DUTG says:

        T, are you able to discern if the deep hurt you feel from the narc’s words stem from: (1) the words themselves, or (2) the fact that someone who led you to trust them enough to be emotionally vulnerable with, revealing your deepest fears, used them against you in the end? For me, it was always (2).

        1. T says:

          2 for me as well.

  19. IdaNoe says:

    HG Sir, do Greaters ever let appliances see what they are or are they always covert? Thank you

    1. HG Tudor says:

      There are invariably portentous remarks from Greaters.

      1. IdaNoe says:

        On that note, I believe I was the shelved gargoyle of a Greater. He arrived when I was trying to escape a midranger husband. Midranger was terrified of the Greater! Threats stopped, hoovers stopped. Why?

      2. Renarde says:

        Oh and the UMR too. One cracked an excellent vacuum cleaner joke the other day..

  20. Carol M says:

    Who’s the Daddy? You’re the Daddy, the Boss, the Sovereign, the Holy Grail, the Hurt God and all those magnificent titles one could ever imagine. If only our fuel would suffice…But we’ve educated ourselves enough through your works to understand this is an illusion.

    1. IdaNoe says:

      Yes yes. They are all those things, especially the hurt God. The funny thing is that as an empathetic appliance , I don’t like new furniture . I love the old beat up stuff that has character. They don’t understand that empaths find beauty in scars, flaws and weaknesses. We love to love those thing into strengths. Thsts why we’re empaths.

  21. NarcAngel says:

    So you dont consider this girl with daddy issues and waving all kinds of flags of being damaged as low hanging fruit? I do.

    1. K says:

      Maybe it is just a quickie for a nice fuel hit from a tertiary source.

      1. MB says:

        Unless I misunderstood in the comments of an earlier posting of this article, she became his girlfriend (not a quickie) She was the subject of the “Spanked” narrative as I understood it as well. Research it if you have time and let us know.

      2. Carol M says:

        Oh Heavens now I have to go back there and ask politely for the Spanked narrative as well. Spoiler Alert, folks!

        1. MB says:

          Did the narrative ever materialize? I haven’t heard much about it.

      3. K says:

        Oops! I will check it out. Thank you!

      4. Chihuahuamum says:

        Whatever happened to the spanked blog? Future faking? 😄🤔☺

        1. NarcAngel says:


          Haha. Maybe everyone who signed up for spank class got an automatic fail.

      5. K says:

        Thank you, MB!

        Found it and noted:

        AUGUST 26, 2017 AT 11:49
        HG I’m presuming she never became one of your formal girlfriends?

        HG Tudor
        AUGUST 26, 2017 AT 17:51
        ON this occasion yes. Daddy Issues falls under Special Traits.

      6. Chihuahuamum says:

        Lol narcangel that thought had crossed my mind 🤣

    2. windstorm says:

      Yes, but what narc passes up low-hanging fruit? Even if they don’t want to eat it, they’ll pick it just to play with it for amusement.

    3. Lou says:

      The way I see it, most narcs won’t care if the victim is “low hanging fruit”. An attractive target, obviously very needy and full of emotion is a good deal for most narcs (including greaters). Easy prey, low energy expenditure and lots of fuel easily obtained.

    4. Lou says:

      I mean, most victims should not be a big challenge for the narc. HG is an ultra (I do agree with that category). He may enjoy ensnaring challenging targets and controlling them, but fuel is the rule. He cannot have enough of it. So why not take it when it presents itself easily? Specially in the form of an attractive girl, full of fuel, apparently very sure of herself (but he knows she is not), desired by most men and picky with them. I can imagine that “getting her” was kind of a small trophy for HG at that moment. IMO, from the narc perspective, ensnaring this girl is a no-brainer.
      From the empath POV, it is of course another story.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Lou and Windstorm

        Oh I get that fuel is the rule and he didnt pass it up, but she was not a one night stand and I doubt he was in fuel crisis having such a large fuel matrix, so she was not necessary. He has been taken to task at different times about picking low hanging fruit and in one response in particular he was quite robust about how that is not the case. There would not be much challenge with this girl as most anyone looking on could see she is a bit of a broken toy that wouldnt require much effort (and indeed that proved true) so I dont see any narc “magic” at work here-just exploitation and opportunity which is so…so……average and common man. I guess I expect more from an Elite.

        1. MB says:

          From what I’ve learned from HG, it’s all about maximizing fuel while conserving as much energy as possible. With this girl, no preparation, no Facebook stalking nothing was necessary. All he did was be in that place at that time, be good looking, older, DTF and have the necessary “equipment”. Zero energy expended in order to seduce her either as she was throwing it out both pant legs! Sucking on her straw that way and grinding on his thigh. Why wouldn’t he take that whore home? I would venture to say even a non narc would’ve picked that apple and bit it hard.

          1. K says:

            DTF…ha ha ha…thanks for the laugh, MB.

          2. MB says:

            I called that one like I saw it K. I feel so bad now calling her a whore. I wish I could go back and edit that. I don’t know her and am certainly in no position to judge her.

            I can see her as a victim of her past abuse, but also see she made a conscious decision as a consenting adult to make her desires known. She’s just very lucky HG took her home that night and not a serial killer. Or, maybe not…we will have to wait for the rest of the story.

            As I said, when you buzz around looking for attention, you get caught for prey. It might be a cute, fuzzy, little spider with weak venom, or it might be a mighty lion that wants to bat you around with his paws and play with you for awhile before he goes in for the kill.

          3. K says:

            I wish there was an edit button, too, or a do-over. Don’t stress too much. You are definitely an empath (remorse).

            When I was a child, I had to change my perspective so I try not to be too judgmental. It is a jungle out there and the game is survival. All we can do is avoid the webs and the dens.

          4. MB says:

            I don’t even use the word whore in my daily life! That was just plain mean. I’m sorry Daddy’s girl whoever/wherever you are. She may be the one dead appliance. I can see her as a suicide risk for sure. We don’t know who that was do we K?

          5. K says:

            You might as well have a scarlet E (empath) plastered on your shirt. You are swimming in guilt, contrition and concern. I am not sure if she was the dead appliance; don’t stress too much. I have said some nasty things to my cat and she was innocent of any wrong doing at the time. We all have “mean” moments; it is part of our ET and it is quite normal. Shit happens.

          6. MB says:

            I wear my E proudly. Stamped right in the center of my forehead! Ha ha. Thank you for noticing. The kitty should understand bad moods and ugly words you didn’t really mean. Just don’t kick her and be very careful around her if you dream of sheep!

          7. T says:

            Just had to jump in here at any point and any thread because I’m hurting that bad. I want to just be done with people. I feel myself numbing out, vs. Fighting. I hate having roomates, housemates. I really need to find a space I can go be alone.and there doesn’t seem to be anyplace I can go. It’s all a snowball rolling downhill.

          8. MB says:

            No T!
            Hang in there. There’s nothing wrong with numbing out. Some days that’s all we can muster and that’s enough. One breath at a time even if you can’t bring yourself to put one foot in front of the other. I feel your desperation and my heart aches for you. Lock your bedroom door, keep the roommates out, read HG and hang out with us. We’ve got your back, you CAN do this. I’m fighting for you now just like you do for others when they’re not feeling strong . You got this, girlie!

          9. T says:

            Thanks, MB. For your strength. Big hugs to you. I think if it was possible I’d dig a hole and stay there for a while.

          10. MB says:

            I can totally relate T. I’ve often wished I could just disappear for a while, vanish off the grid. I get it. I wouldn’t advise digging a hole though. It didn’t work out well for Saddam Hussein in his spider hole!

          11. T says:

            MB!!!!! Hahahahaha!!!!

          12. NarcAngel says:

            I thought of you last night. I hadnt seen any comments from you and I thought you might be at that point that it all seems too much and wanted to tell you to hold on. Just as time heals it sometimes has a way of glossing over and making lighter what has happened in the past to pull you towards what is bad for you. Its hard, but remember being left alone, having no food, having your only lifeline to others (your phone) taken from you. The horrible things he said and did. Remember. When you do you will see that the annoyance of change that you are going through now does not compare to returning to that abuse.

            Please. Hold on.

          13. T says:

            NA, doing my best. This is so hard.

          14. Narc Angel says:

            What are you finding hardest at this stage or what do you see as your biggest hurdle? Can you identify it? Also, are you still in therapy?

          15. T says:

            NA, yes, still in therapy.
            Hmmm. My biggest hurdle is the flashbacks, nightmares or crazy dreams. It really can affect my day. For the last month I get up a 4am and do different meditations till 5. With the exception of the the last few days, one of my housemates gets up at the same time. Maybe she’s curious? A narc, lol, barging in on my time for myself? Someone suggested I might be a good roll model? Now that makes me laugh. I’m not sure?! I’m big on time for myself these days. I have a guy friend who’s a narc, he loves to grill me about am I with anybody, lol.i don’t hang out, only to ask him about his day and gloss over mine. When I first met him I instantly liked him, then over lunch he said he could be an asshole. And HG had said if someone tells you that, believe them. So I won that one, lol.

          16. NarcAngel says:

            Hi T
            Nightmares and crazy dreams are just your brain trying to make sense of the nonsensical, so while annoying, they are sign that you are processing things, which is required to move forward. I dont know how you feel about your therapy but I am glad you have someone you can speak with in person in addition to the support you are offered here, and there is much of it. Just think-all of the people who support you here may be anonymous to you, but we are out there none the less as well as others that you walk past everyday. There is more good and help than you can imagine, but as always you must be attentive and selective in who you choose to interact with, which is the case for all of us. Your housemate could be nosy or you could be a role model to her. Matters not-you do whats good for you. If she interrupts your time you can just tell her that you appreciate her interest but that you need that time alone and encourage her to do the same. Yeah a lot of narcs are instantly likeable and thats the problem. If you find a person keeps coming at you without your invitation thats a red flag. Heed it. I know you have mentioned reading HGs books but I cant remeber if you have consulted with him yet?

            I hope for you a lovely and relaxing day at the beach and along the way.


          17. T says:

            Thanks NA, I’m betting on sociopath.

          18. windstorm says:

            I feel that way all the time and know how horrible it makes me feel. Have you tried grounding? Sit outside on the ground or put your bare feet on the ground. It helps me tremendously to be alone in nature for a time. Sit under a tree and focus on the birds or the wind.

            These things may help you calm yourself and restore your energy. Then with a clearer head you can think about your people problems.
            Positive energy ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

          19. T says:

            I definitely don’t ground as much as I need to. Been thinking of ways to do that. I’ve become a loner these days and just want to be alone. I love Hawaii, but not sure it’s for me, sometimes I forget I even have a mind that can think on its own.

          20. windstorm says:

            I went to Hawaii a couple years ago . It had been my dream since childhood to see an erupting volcano. I couldn’t live there. There are too many people and the tropical climate means they are outdoors, everywhere all the time. So many homeless people and tourists and the businesses with open walls to let in the breeze but do away with privacy. It was too “open” for me, too exposed.

            Are you from Hawaii originally?

            The mind is like the body. You have to keep it in shape and exercise it. Do you meditate? Outdoor meditation in the early morning really helps me. Someone else suggested getting up early before anyone else in your home is up. I had to do that when my children were still at home. That peaceful alone time at dawn with a cup of coffee is often the only thing that let me keep going.

            Go out and find an orchid blooming on a barren rock or in a crack in pavement. Let nature be your example. You are more resilient than a plant. Just keep hanging in there. ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

          21. NarcAngel says:

            Yeah, you could go the relax and solitude route as per some of the excellent suggestions offered.


            You could picture two crazy broads (Windstorm and Twilight) running naked as jaybirds through the early dawn like two drunken fairy sprites, who then proceed to twist themselves in a pretzel doing some meditative yoga before reciting Haiku to one another AND LAUGH YOUR ASS OFF before rolling over for another 40 winks.

            Either way.
            Thinking of you

          22. windstorm says:

            Hey, if it works….
            I was just on the phone a little bit ago with my narc Wiccan friend and she was outside in her tiny yard in Queens outside NYC doing a solstice ritual, feeling the flowers and pulling in the energy of the sunset and moon. Fully clothed, but I imagine her neighbors were entertained. We talked about how peace, beauty and magic are all around us all the time – we just have to open ourselves to it.

          23. NarcAngel says:

            Twilight and Windstorm

            Thank you for being good sports about my playful jab at your spirituality and love of the outdoors in order to make soneone laugh. It was a risk, albeit I felt a small one because you are both good and decent people who know by now that I have affection for you and mean no disrespect. I would have used myself but we all know I couldnt pull off anything remotely ethereal lol.

          24. Twilight says:

            Narc Angel

            You don’t have to worry about me, I know where you stand. I adore your humor, when I first came here you helped me, by the way Best Buy guy sends his regards and not to jeopardize my electronics as to he is moving on to better things in life and will no long be able to assist me with new keyboards and such.

            Now to figure out if I need a ritual or to do some freaking rain go away dance around here.

            DFA /Twilight

          25. T says:

            Lolol!! Did the beach and it started pouring rain. So I decided to go to the dentist and have 2 teeth pulled. I love to smile, I don’t because most of my teeth had been damaged by my narc….oh the love!!! Gag. So I walked in, put my money down. Dear God, I look like a jack o lantern. I don’t care, I’m going to get my smile back !!!

          26. windstorm says:

            Never an apology needed. You keep me cracked up! Humor is a wonderful thing that I both value and enjoy highly! I won’t speak for Twilight, but everyone including myself thinks I’m bizarre when it comes to spirituality. Even my Wiccan narcissist friend thinks I’m “unusual” and she dances under trees in busy public parking lots. 😄

          27. T says:

            NA!!!!! OMG!!!! LMAO!!!! Thank you i needed that!
            Someone made a comment that I have developed the sense of humor as a sour lemon!!! That made me smile.
            Where would I be without HG and everyone???
            Was headed for one of those supernova explosion/ implosion/ explosion, or some crazy thing. Tomorrow I promise myself to go to the beach!!! We’ll see if I really do it, lol!!!

          28. Twilight says:


            I hope you are feeling better and the feeling has subsided. Many here have given you some wonderful advice and Narc Angel hopefully made you laugh, which is some of the best medicine one needs when they feel numb IMO. It definitely does good for the body.

            You have been in my thoughts, take care.

            Narc Angel
            I don’t know about windstorm that made me laugh reading that just now. If you only knew how accurate you are to moments in my life, except the Haiku and I was usually alone and not intoxicated 😵so I can not blame it on the drink but take full responsibility for my actions.

            Thank again for the laugh NA!

          29. MB says:

            You’re my hero NarcAngel. When I grow up, I wanna be a badass like you.

          30. NarcAngel says:


            Haha. I’ll be the first to say it (its a wonder HG didnt beat me to it):

            You really should aim higher.

          31. MB says:

            Nah, you da bomb.com. NA. Such a riot. Love your sense of humor. Nobody does sassy like you do!

          32. T says:

            Yes Windstorm, way too many people here.
            I get up at 4 am, do my meditations and medications, lol.
            I live far from the beach, up in the clouds on the slopes of Mauna Loa.
            Hawaii is a great place to visit. Actually, long story short I am stuck here…but they have the best health care here. And I can’t give up the beach.

          33. K says:

            If there is a library nearby, or a bookstore, you may be able to find a quiet space where you can be alone. Also, a walk in the woods or on the beach (lake) can be peaceful, too. I hope you feel better.

          34. T says:

            Thanks K. I believe tomorrow I’m due for a beach day.
            Thanks for everyone being my cheerleader. I’ve been climbing the walls lately and it’s not been fun.

          35. MB says:

            Ahhhhhh, good old salt, sand , and sun. It’ll cure what ails ya. As they say, the answers may not be at the beach, but shouldn’t we at least take a look? Enjoy T.

          36. T says:

            I’m up, meditations done, beach bag I’d packed with some stinky cheese and a cheap bottle of wine from Chile. Almost out the door.

          37. MB says:

            Enjoy your well deserved treat T!

          38. NarcAngel says:

            K called her cat waaaaay worse (in most peoples eyes) and it still purrs lol.

          39. K says:

            Ha ha ha….I called her a homo the other day…that poor cat.

          40. MB says:

            If there is karma, remind me of what I should do (or not) to reincarnate as K’s cat!

          41. K says:

            Ha ha ha….you are doing very well in this life so I do not foresee you being reincarnated into one of my future cats. My cat just needs to toughen up a bit; she is very needy. I think she has abandonment issues.

          42. MB says:

            I’m sure her daddy was quite the Tom cat, bastard didn’t stick around for emotional support!

            Thank you for your kind words K. I could be a lot better person, but probably much worse too!

          43. NarcAngel says:

            Yes but if its all childs play to a Greater or Elite and they can make us all putty in their hands as they claim, I’m sure she wasnt the only woman in the club……You’d think he’d pride himself in something more challenging and leave the easy snare for his lesser brethren with smaller fuel matrices (not that he is concerned with them lol) and find this easy snare beneath him. The reason I brought it up was because of his response to the accusation of picking low hanging fruit by another commenter previously. He explained that it was not the case that he does that, and in my view this article negates that. She wasnt just low hanging fruit but jam on the floor. But then I guess even Elites can have a lazy night now and then. Haha havent we all.

          44. K says:

            I love a feisty empath!

          45. MB says:


            It takes more effort to make putty out of some than others to be sure. I suspect her fountain exceeded his expectations in spades. What was to be a DLSTS for a one night stand turned into something more scrumptious indeed. Sometimes it’s those serendipitous, fall into your lap (literally) meetings that are the most rewarding.

            I certainly know what you mean about his comments. I’ve seen the contradiction on the blog multiple times! The image of a boxer bobbing and weaving comes to mind. What he says and how he feels about anything is subject to change based on his aims at that moment. That whole volte face his kind are famous for: I believe in God. I don’t believe in God. Picking low hanging fruit is beneath me, but then I write an article regaling my tale. Very telling indeed. We are here for an education and how better to teach than by example. To know him is to love him!

            There’s NO WAY I could hang like Spider-Man, silently moderating as the peeps engage in banter below about me. I don’t know how you do it HG! Is it restraint or indifference?

          46. WiserNow says:

            I’ve been reading this thread between all of you with interest and up to now, I haven’t felt a need to comment. However, I would now like to throw a different “perspective” on the table.

            When I first read this article, my instinctive reaction was about the narcissist and I thought the following, “What a vulture! He can see the girl’s vulnerabilities and her scars (both physical and mental) and he can’t wait to exploit all of that.” I felt disgusted by him and very sad for her.

            I don’t care what label HG wants to place on himself, whether that is “greater”, “elite”, “ultra” or “supercalifragilisticexpialidocious”! He is, to me, nothing more than a vulture going by his depiction of himself in this article. Probably worse than a vulture because he has the insight to “know” why this girl behaves the way she does, and he couldn’t care less.

            I can see why you all view this girl as “low hanging fruit”, but spare a thought for the underlying reasons that made her that way. Also, she could easily be one of the many writers of the very sad letters that have appeared on this blog. If that was the case, would you then feel justified in consoling her upon reading her letter, after calling her “low hanging fruit” or “jam on the floor” here?

            Ok, the lecture’s over. I don’t mean to be contradictory or argumentative or to make anyone feel bad. I just see this article from a number of perspectives and wanted to throw a different one in the ring. Peace out my fellow empaths!

          47. NarcAngel says:

            I would like to clarify my position. I do not think of her as low hanging fruit or jam on the floor myself. The term has been used occasionally and loosely to describe not the persons value, but from how the narcissist might view her/anyone (a lesser not wanting to put any effort in for instance). And I know some narcs would take her and I understand their view of their need for fuel as others have pointed out. Not disputing that. Again, I made the comment because this term was used previously and HG denied choosing what was considered by others to be “low hanging fruit”. I have never heard him use that term for any of his victims btw-just in response to some calling them that. Just as he grades the cadres of narcs, so too does he grade his victims against a checklist, and I thought with him thinking himself above lessers and mids that he would also think himself above picking someone so overtly damaged that a normal could scoop her up. That his ego would have been in play. I was wrong.

            In summary: No classification of empath is better or worse than any other class. No fruit is better or worse than any other fruit. All are victims.

            I am not concerned for myself as I am not fruit but hanging from a nut tree lol.

          48. Twilight says:

            Narc Angel

            “In summary: No classification of empath is better or worse than any other class. No fruit is better or worse than any other fruit. All are victims.”

            Very true statement except I would say people, we are all victims in some sort of manner at different stages of our life, this includes HGs kind. If all of this garbage that was placed upon us was stripped away we would see the world from a very different perspective.

          49. windstorm says:

            Ha, ha, ha!! I’m definitely on a nut tree too. Probably a Black Walnut. Covered by that messy husk that stains the fingers, very difficult to crack and almost impossible to get the meat out of without it breaking all apart! 😝😝😝

          50. WiserNow says:

            Hi NarcAngel,

            I can understand your point, and when you raised the question of why a greater narc would set his sights on what seems to be a “too-easy” target, it interested me too. I can see why you asked the question, in relation to the “fuel-quality” a greater narc would get from this kind of victim.

            I guess I felt uncomfortable enough to post a comment because I feel that sometimes a “greater” narc is viewed on this blog as some kind of superior being that is considered almost respectable, so the connotation is that he “should” choose “better” victims. The unspoken attitude seems to be that the victim in this article is an easy target, so she has less inherent value, while the narc is a greater, so hey, why is he not challenging himself to ensnare a more “worthy” victim?

            While the girl in this article is not exactly a poster child for self-respect and subtlety, she is still an unsuspecting victim, while the narc (greater or not) is a ruthless predator on the hunt.

            Just because she doesn’t have enough self-respect for herself, does that automatically mean that no-one else should? In a similar way, just because the narc has more than enough self-respect for himself (he proudly calls himself an elite greater!) does that mean everyone else should too?

            I guess it’s the way people attach meaning to words and attitudes. Labels and group thinking can be misleading though if we don’t focus on the truth of what’s happening.

        2. windstorm says:

          Oh, I know just what you mean. When I read your “low-hanging fruit” comment it reminded me of when we were teenagers. My future husband (at that time) and I liked to drive to the nearest city and go to the pubic library. Often we had his younger brothers along, 2 of which are midrangers.
          There was a pear tree in front of the library that we would walk past. My future brothers in law would always pick the pears, smash them on car windshields, throw them at the library windows, etc. My future husband would never participate in this, but watch them condescendingly. I would be mortified, fuss at them and beg him to make them stop. Looking back, I was really pumping out the fuel for all three of them! ⛽️ No wonder those trips always left me exhausted!

      2. shesaw says:

        I felt the same, yet after that I wondered if it would be possible for anyone to tell a story that has happened in the past without putting some knowledge in it that he/she didn’t have at that very moment (but gained afterwards.) Add to that that this particular story is still a story told by a narc (don’t they love to impress) and there you go. The impressing ‘thing’ (I’m srry, not native, don’t know the right word) here would be how HG sees right through this girl in the first moments he meets her.

        I hope I don’t insult you HG, as that is not my objective. I estimate though that you embellish your ‘stories’, if only for literary reasons, or for the sake of making something quite clear. At the same time your Narcissism could add to this, f.i. by making sure your first assessment of the girl in this story looks extra impressive – though I assume you would be aware of that. Am I right/wrong? I hope that you might be able to comment on this. Thank you.

      3. Lou says:

        Narc Angel,
        I do not think that was a lazy night for HG. I am pretty sure he chopped vegetables all night long.

        Sorry HG. Just kidding.

      4. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi lou…i agree fuel is fuel. I get the sense of this mindset where one victim is better than another. At the end of the day it doesnt matter if youre low hanging fruit or the ever almighty super empath youre still just…fuel. Dont think for a second youre any more “special” to the narcissist bc youre not. The only one that matters is themselves. The one and only numero uno.

      5. Quasi says:


        There is not much more I can say that has not already been said by these amazing women before me..
        Only to reinforce Narc Angel’s statement to hold on…
        There is always rises and falls in journeys, this is a low point but from what I have read and as stated above you have been somewhere darker. If you could survive that, you can literally survive anything. X

        1. T says:

          True, Quasi.

      6. Quasi says:

        Hi T,

        I have found the perfect meditation to add to the morning routine- definitely take it to the beach with you if you can get mobile signal on the beach … link copied below… x


        1. T says:

          Thanks Quasi!!! I’m going to check this out!!!

  22. LYNN says:


    Hi yes I know it’s hard not to hate but we have to look at it that he is providing a service. I am striving for emotionless indifference which sometimes I achieve but is not sustained. When your indifferent you know you’ve healed, we are still angry which is why HG can still get under our skin the way he does.
    Sometimes I feel terrific anger when you look back and feel the shame of playing right into the Narcs hands and sometimes I feel a sense of sickly, sugar coated wishing that it had been real and yearning for that golden time to return.
    In those pathetic moments I look for a way to heal and its hard because I’m wrestling with my own stupid melancholy and in these moments HG’s work is very helpful at giving me a good fucking kick in the head and stopping my descent into depression so he has a place for us.
    He does actually say degrading things about his kind too and is not defending the behaviours but giving us useful warning as very few of us realised before that there really is no hope with these kind and that’s why we wasted so much time and energy with them.
    I wish there was a magical healing to bury these poles of emotion in the aftermath and stay on the peaceful road of indifference.
    I know I’m improving though as it becomes apparent to me that although I loved the Golden period it was the rejection that hugely escalated the emotions and brings me back to those feelings of fighting for love as a child.
    So use this hate for HG to direct you to what is deeper and also to have those reminders of how better your life is now Narc free, use HG to make your life better. He’s a gauge to know how well your progressing.
    When his work cannot make you angry anymore but indifferent you will know you have healed.
    Of course it makes you angry that he is a reminder that these evil people are out there damaging people every day but try and remember he is warning people with this site and although there are a lot of other sites that do similar they do not show in such detail, as he does, the absolute evil and people need to know as there are so many.
    I heard there are aprox 3 million in America, they are fucking everywhere!
    Guessing you have had a tough time like the rest of us, its bitter and horrible but work with us. I pop at HG quite a lot in my responses it can be quite fun as well. Best thing you can do is spread the word of these sights and educate the world with the aim of drying up their fuel sites.
    Telling HG you hate him is just giving him fuel he loves it.
    Lots love Lynn

    1. HG Tudor says:

      For the sake of clarity and to assist people’s understanding the fuel arising from the comment referred to is from a tertiary source (thus lowest potency) and is one off (therefore very short frequency) and is in the written word (therefore smallest amount) so it is but a dollop, but yes, fuel nonetheless. It is not needed as my fuel needs are met in my private life, something I repeatedly explain and such expression has no adverse impact on me whatsoever.

      1. Quasi says:

        I could pretty much hear your exasperated intake of breath before you typed this response… and I can just picture you with you head in yours hands saying .. how many times do I have to say this shit!
        Mental imagery at work.. on the plus side at least it’s not about HEC and HT’s . I would be copying and pasting those bad boys if I were you.

        Just my opinion though..

      2. LYNN says:

        A dirty gert big dollop maybe or an itzy bitzy tiny weeny dollop ??? 😂😂

      3. tigerchelle78 says:

        I would copy this statement for future reference HG.

    2. tigerchelle78 says:

      As HG has stated, he doesn’t love it, as he doesn’t love anything. He only knows fuel and that has got to be the lowest type of fuel possible. I didn’t say it to give him fuel. Nor did I say it to wound him. He can’t get wounded by such comments.
      I guess there are certain articles that may trigger certain feelings more than others. This got to me for a number of reasons I guess.
      I can handle anything HG puts up here. And I know HG can handle me saying: “I hate you”. I’m sure he has been called everything under the sun. The very most I could probably do is challenge him. And I’m sure he likes to have his metal tested so to speak. I’m borderline and I test everyone, including him. He knows that.

    3. Yolo says:

      Great comment…I concur…with exception of fuel from a person he may perceive as a plebian.


      I had to pull down my pants to check which side my stab wound is located on my thigh. Strange, tattoo on same side but on the right. Also, the tattoo doesnt cover the scared area.

      Triggered but I feel indifferent. I guess I am healing like the scar. 😘

    4. tigerchelle78 says:

      Lynn I don’t have any hate for HG. Because that would mean I feel “something” for him. You can only feel hate, love, anything really for someone who has a soul, someone who possesses emotions, has feelings, and goes about their daily life like a human being. Hg is none of these things. He might aswell be called an IT. Along with all the Narcs out there. They are like Borg on star trek…. wouldn’t surprise me if you opened up their heads, and there be circuit boards in there.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        So, your previous comments about hating me were lies then?

        1. tigerchelle78 says:

          Lol why an earth would you care whether I did or not?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            I do not, save I address inaccuracy.

          2. tigerchelle78 says:

            I know you do not care HG, therefore I shall not answer your question.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            You do not need to. My point has been made.

          4. tigerchelle78 says:

            And what “point” was that HG?

          5. tigerchelle78 says:

            I guess when I say “I hate you” it’s the same as when you say you love someone….And also the fact that you paint people black and white all the time. We do similar. Stop being such an arse!
            Go pick on someone else Tudor….

            Now MY point has been made!

          6. HG Tudor says:

            This is not a blog about borderlines.

          7. tigerchelle78 says:

            And that was your point was it?

          8. HG Tudor says:

            No. My point was already made, I am not revisiting it.

          9. tigerchelle78 says:

            So your point was to make me out to be a liar was it?

          10. tigerchelle78 says:

            Still awake HG? It’s 4am now….

      2. Twilight says:


        HG has a soul and a spirit why do you keep making references to him as if he is not here?
        IMO you are different the the other diagnosed “boarderlines” here, yet it is the subtle differences that stand out.

        1. tigerchelle78 says:

          How am I different Twilight?

          1. Twilight says:

            IMO you behave in a manner that you need to prove your a boarderline.

          2. tigerchelle78 says:

            Twilight, why would I need to prove I’m a borderline? That does not make any sense. I don’t need to prove anything. I am who I am. And I am obviously healing and recovering like everyone else here, but with extra battles in my head going on. It is not easy. I’ve been diagnosed since 2012. I just am obviously different to the borderline’s (notice the spelling) you know or have come across. We are not all the same.
            Anyway as HG said, this is NOT a blog about borderline’s. And I feel that HG will hate the subject of borderline’s as much as cooking recipes soon. So please, concentrate on figuring him out or yourself, and your situation, rather than me. But thank you for your honest opinion. I need to have more tact and be more kind I think. I do not doubt I have much to work on.

          3. Twilight says:


            Why would you? Because you are afraid to embrace that what you are and face the core of what you fear to heal. You are comfortable exactly where you are living with an “honest” opinion of yourself instead of the truth of what is.
            Your statement “And I am obviously healing and recovering like everyone else here, but with extra battles in my head going on. It is not easy.” You are correct it is not easy to face truth and easy to face a comfortable “honest” opinion of yourself, I am a boarderline and this gives me permission to behave in the manner I see fit at the time.

            Do you know the difference between an “honest” opinion and the truth of what is?

      3. /iroll says:

        Why emulate the narc? Find the real source of your anger defences and deal with it.

        1. tigerchelle78 says:

          /iroll….I don’t know if this was to me, but I’m not trying to emulate the Narc. Yes I will deal with it. As I always do. Thanks for your concern.

      4. Lilly says:

        What is it about people stating that they hate you HG, I cannot follow this. For example I am not really fond of my gynaecologist because he looks like a creep and I suspect him to make mental images of me while doing an exam. But he is the best in town and he once saved my life so I am forever grateful to him. So what if he uses those mental images for later for he’s spank bank material, I do not care as long as I am benefiting from he’s brilliance. It is my choice to engage with him, but I am not announcing to the world that I in fact do not like him. Not that I am comparing you with this pervert gynaecologist HG, it is to make a point that I do not understand why people keep attacking you. I understand that some readers feel the need to challenge you on the material that you write and on the answers that you provide, which I often read with most interest. I do not agree with everything that you say or write, and I sometimes wonder what is real and what is written from a marketing point of view (still brilliant). Maybe I hate you maybe I do not, but that is not the point, the point is you are the best IMO regarding this subject and only through your work I got the full understanding of NPD and for that I am forever grateful. What you did with this blog, the amount of time you must invest in it, providing us with free information is something not many blogs do. Thanks for that.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are most welcome. The hatred usually stems from

          1. Raw victims who have not fully grasped the dynamic of the blog and my material and understandably lash out; or
          2. Narcissists who do not know what they are and they are jealous because of the high calibre nature of my work and the rightful attention it engenders.

          I always state you do not have to like me, but do understand the information I provide is above anything else and will set you free.

          1. tigerchelle78 says:

            So now you are saying I’m a narcissist who doesn’t know who I am HG? Nice smearing tactic! If I was a narcissist, you would not even have let me in nor would you post my comments.
            You go ahead and put doubts in people’s minds….if it makes you feel better about yourself. Because of course nobody is going to believe a “crazy” borderline who is nobody right???

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Again, with what is becoming something of a regular behaviour, you jump to conclusions. Readers know that narcissists have posted on this blog previously and their comments have been posted.

            Please identify where I have stated specifically that you are a narcissist who does not know who you are? Or are you jumping to conclusions? Again.

          3. NarcAngel says:

            On the upside ………this repeated back and forth with you two will have you at 11 Million in no time.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha, maybe NA, I would rather it be reached in a more constructive fashion.

          5. Twilight says:

            Narc Angel

            Ha ha he might skip right over and hit 12 million.

            Ok I am going to go back to my corner in the back and make some “magic” tea before I end up on the naughty stool.

          6. Lilly says:

            When you put it that way I understand what you mean. And you are correct there is no other blog (I have checked them all) that can provide the amount and accuracy of the information about this subject. I just hope people realise this and do not take it for granted, that is all.

      5. Chihuahuamum says:

        I think too some say it to get attention from HG and has nothing to do with actual “hatred”. They like to prove what good fuel generators they are but it comes off looking foolish.

        1. Twilight says:

          Narc Affair

          I agree with you some do, yet those I have notice that do this still have been respectful towards HG and to others here on the blog. I actually have respect for them and understand why they would desire to “show”HG what an amazing fuel provider they are. They have never shown this jealousy, frustration, manipulative behavior, twisting truth and always jumping to conclusions, provoking HG to tell them they had to leave or just to get some kind of attention from him. Only one other thou have I seen with this type of obsession with HG, and that was ED.

          1. tigerchelle78 says:

            Ah ha! This is the ED you mentioned Twilight. Is this Aunt Clara then?

          2. K says:

            It could be AC, I was wondering if it was SN, too. Will the real narcissist please stand up?

          3. HG Tudor says:

            I am over here.

          4. windstorm says:

            Ha, ha!! Good one, HG!

          5. NarcAngel says:


            Haha. You better start waving so we can identify you in this supposed sea of narcs.

          6. K says:

            Ha ha ha…you are the only honest (aware) one on this site. The multitude of screen names and accusations have really added a cloak and dagger feel to the site. It is veritable Who’s who.

          7. tigerchelle78 says:

            Lol K….

          8. Twilight says:

            I asked, nothing more

        2. NarcAngel says:

          I agree. Generally comes off as foolish. There are those who rail against their narc using HG as proxy, but he can differentiate between those and the ones with other motives.

          1. HG Tudor says:


      6. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi narcangel…ive seen some posts which arent that frequent but its so blatant obvious what their motives are and its to get attention. They want to stand out and be noticed. Be the one that is what an elite would want lol i look at that and think to myself you dont want that have you not learned anything here??? I view such individuals in different stages of learning/healing. They probably think theyll be the one to change or sway the narc but from reading HGs works that will never happen. Rule one we are appliances. Rule two we will be replaced.
        Then there are those that have personality disorders of their own and you can see it come out. They are just as oblivious as a narcissist how eratic and irrational they come off.
        Anyone who wants to be a challenge to a narc is asking for abuse and thats irrational and foolhardy imo. Your ability to produce fuel doesnt make you special it makes you more of a victim to a narcissist. Someone they can suck the life from. Dont romanticize it bc abuse isnt exciting or romantic.

  23. Bubbles 🍾 says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,
    Only last night in bed with you …. haha … did I read “the somatic narcissist and the bar” … she was a red head …. same same ..haha

    I remember the likes of you many times when I was young and single …. I said “no” to all of them. Great reminder, you don’t find the love of your life in a bar

    “Sitting Target book” …. brilliant

  24. MB says:

    “You had no idea whose web you had flown into…”

    What a visual! The spider catching his prey, paralyzing her, and proceeding to suck her life blood for his own survival.

    Think about that next time you’re buzzing around like a juicy little fly at the hunting grounds.

  25. Renarde says:

    Ahhh Daddy issues! I would seriously love to meet the female Empath who doesn’t have them. I deluded myself for too many years that I was OK and that I had ‘Mummy issues’ instead. Only a day or so ago, I was telling my father about my rape. I had unfortunately got into an argument with him and therefore it was spat out. His response, ‘And?’. What a wicked thing to say. Brother was shocked. Mum was shocked.Friends are aghast that anyone could be so cruel. Unfortunately, I was not surprised. What makes it all the more remarkable and is evidence of the strange logic is that he is very ill and needs my support.

    1. IdaNoe says:

      I feel ya and know the story first hand. Just change the names. Nothing like being patted on the arm and told, ” well, we didn’t think he hurt you too bad.”

    2. MB says:

      Renarde brings up a good point. I hope others will share their thoughts as well. I don’t believe all Empaths are wounded by Daddy or otherwise from their past. Is being empathic an abnormal state? What is “normal” anyway? Thoughts?

      Of course there is always damage of some sort done in everyone’s childhood. Ive wondered what my children will say while on the psychiatrist’s couch in their 40’s!

      1. quasi7 says:

        Hi MB,

        I can only comment on my experience and opinion as always.
        I do not have daddy issues, I was so very lucky to have experienced a balanced upbringing with secure and love rich attachments with both of my parents, who remain together and continue to share my life fully.

        I resonate with the bio social theory, it has always made sense to me . It is my belief that every human being is born on a scale of sensitivity/empathy. I believe Everyone is born with empathy, the intensity/ nature for each person is on the sliding scale.
        It is then dependent on nurture as to any further movement on the scale as the child develops.

        For my development my empathy was nurtured in a very healthy way. I was taught how to love, how to care for, how to listen, how to respect, I was taught manners and kindness. My empathy was encouraged and enriched by my family experiences.

        I also believe that empaths / people with empathy who experienced abuse/ trauma/ neglect in childhood, retained and strengthened their empathy through the coping mechanisms that they chose to adopt, what came naturally to them. To try and avoid situations of abuse where possible, to minimise risks, problem solve, potentially by trying to preempt, appease, they protected siblings. They survived their childhoods knowing that they could love and care for others, often with a determination that they would never hurt anyone in the manner that they were hurt. ( this is purely my formulated opinion through discussions I have had with people who have survived the most horrific childhood traumas I have ever heard of.)

        My internal character has always felt true to me, I have always liked who I am as a person based on this.
        My vulnerability was created by my reaction to my peers as a child and teenager. Pretty extreme daily bullying for 10 years +, I was conditioned to believe that I was fat, ugly and that no one would want to be with me due to the external.
        I lived my young adult life with this belief, I had limited confidence and I did not pursue relationships with boys/ men as I believed that they would not want me. I had no radar for anyone finding me attractive as I would not believe it. I grew in confidence at university, but I was still one of the lads out drinking with the rugby team rather then dating them.

        My husband asked me out repeatedly but I didn’t believe him, he had to lay it out very clearly. Poor man. 13 years on I believe him but now the internal is different.

        Since meeting the narcissist I have had an overhaul of my entire being. I had started to like what I looked like externally, he targeted me when I was still unsure. Since the end of our dance I then questioned the internal, I didn’t know who i was in my character anymore, as I did things I would never have done- I was unfaithful, I lied, I risked my family for a man I cared for but did not love. A man I knew to be a narcissist in the end. I believed the damage I had done was irrevocably sustained. I hated myself…
        I had to breakdown who I was completely, and build myself up again including the dark parts of me that had emerged.

        MB I do not believe that empathy is abnormal, I believe that it is important for a balanced existence. For life to be more meaningful.

        1. MB says:

          Thank you so much for sharing Quasi. It is so refreshing to hear that your nuclear family of origin is still intact and in your life.

      2. windstorm says:

        I try not to think about what my kids might say about me!

        I don’t think a person has to be damaged in childhood to be an empath, not at all. I do suspect, however, that damage in childhood may often change the way we interact with those around us. I believe many of us learn to be more in tune with the feelings of those around us (and therefore develop greater empathy) as a self-defense to avoid abuse to ourselves and others around us. We learn to be more watchful, quicker to respond, quicker to show empathy in order to avoid negative responses.

      3. quasi7 says:

        I guess I shared that with you because it can be different to the norm. But it also evidences that damage isn’t always caused by nurture/ upbringing.
        But empaths are still vulnerable to narcissists.

        1. MB says:


          My upbringing looked normal, and in comparison to the horrific childhoods many are subjected to, it WAS wonderful. I feel guilty to even bringing it up.

          I was 2nd born to a teenage mother into what became a large family with not a lot of resources to go around. I’ve been unable to shake the feeling of being “in the way” and a burden my entire life. Ashamed for having even the most basic of needs. Definitely not comfortable expressing my own needs (although I’ll readily go to bat for others) I don’t want to be too much trouble to anyone or use resources that others need more. And everybody is more deserving than me. It always runs out when you’re the last in line. There just isn’t enough to go around.

          Pretty damaging in hindsight, but was never the intended outcome.

      4. quasi7 says:


        It’s tough in large families, especially where there are little means for everyone to meet needs. The empathy/ sensitivity you were born with probably directed itself in a self sacrificing way, putting your siblings needs before your own. Although as you say This is not to good as you devalue yourself.
        Worth is a relative term and very much an individuals perception too.
        I hope your worth from your perspective has increased and a continues to do so… you present to me as a very kind, open hearted soul. So I do truly hope your idea of self worth matches.

        1. MB says:

          You are a gem Quasi. You add value here at narcsite.

          I am kind and cannot bear to hurt man, nor beast, nor insect. That much is true. I wish I knew what it was to feel strong self-worth. It has gotten better over the years, but there is still a disconnect between what I show outwardly and what I truly feel.

      5. quasi7 says:

        Thank you MB,

        Your words have meant a lot to me.

        I believe that the disconnect that you feel between who you present to the world, and how you truly feel inside is very common, and a lot of people will be able to relate with you on that one.

        Continuing to build upon your self worth is fundamental to your journey. Remembering that you are a different person now and that’s ok. We evolve and change throughout our lifetimes, experiences shape us, we learn, we grow. “That was then, this is now”.

        Doing daily affirmations can help, they are likely to be just spoken and not believed initially, but this can also change over time. Sometimes we need to force a re- programming until it is believed. Cognitively we can train our brains in a different way, opposed to previous conditioning.
        Examples of affirmations could be-

        I am important
        I am enough
        I have value
        I am strong
        I am brave
        I am a good person
        I am kind
        I am intelligent
        I am beautiful
        I am a kickass empath with mad skills….
        last one was for comedy value but you get the gist..

        A Daily achievement journal / log with the small and big things written down, can be great. You only record the positive. A recognition of achievements that is written on the day do not get distorted by negative thought patterns, and can be used as a reference to reinforce a positive view of yourself. You would not record the negative here, so if there is a difficult day, it may have less recorded, so reading back you would see it was not a great day but the focus would not be on the why it was not a great day.

        Use of mindfulness skills, meditation, yoga, Pilates.
        All great in helping you centre yourself.

        Treating yourself to something you want because your worth it and because you do not need to sacrifice yourself anymore.

        Be kind to yourself… you will start to see shifts in change… you will see the awesomeness that others see.. x

        1. MB says:

          Thank you Quasi for taking so much time with that thoughtful response.

          I’ve never considered an achievement journal. I’m not one to gloat, but a reminder of my accomplishments could certainly help foster a more positive view of self.

          I guess I am fairly kickass when I’m feeling good and bring my A game.

          I got all kinds of mad skills too. I think Narcs call them “residual benefits” as I tend to lend them freely 🙂

    3. /iroll says:

      During a fight isn’t really the best time to tell your father you got raped though. If you already have a difficult relationship and he is in a defensive position, and, a man who doesn’t deal well with emotions – the response is not that strange. No less strange than telling him in that way. Both of you are ‘acting-out’ for buried reasons, and not in touch with your feelings, so defensive impulses are triggered – the outward signs are not the same as the real motivations and feelings. Maybe you don’t feel you get enough attention from him?

      A gentle suggestion, you and he need healthier boundaries, in order to have an honest relationship.

    4. Bubbles 🍾 says:

      Dear precious Renarde,
      Your story just broke my heart. Not getting the love support and care from your father is a cruel heartbreaking blow (even just a gentle caring touch to your hand). I wish I could bear hug you and give you all the support and TLC you need.
      I know of a gorgeous lass who was raped at 16 by 5 men …..her mother did nothing, meaning …. she didn’t go to the doctor or report it to the police and said to her “you’ll get over it”. The poor girl has suffered mentally all her life, hated her mother ever since, 3 husbands, turned alcoholic, no children …. she’s now 60. (She’s a clever artist and her pain is reflected in ALL her paintings)

      The weasel narc I knew would end everything with a ….. “and” or “that’s niiiice” and “soooooo”.

      I truly hope beautiful Renarde, you are healing with the loving support from your mother brother and friends.
      If it helps any, we are here for you!
      Luv n hugs to you
      Bubbles xx

    5. Chihuahuamum says:

      (((Renarde))) so sorry you experienced rape and your dad didnt acknowledge that or give proper support. Very hurtful. He definitely has an issue to not be there for you.

  26. Nina says:

    Oh HG, how I’ve missed you and your site. I was beginning to delude myself that the world was as viewed through my Pollyanna glasses. Thanks for the wake up call. xx

  27. LYNN says:

    Thank you so much HG for reminding us yet again of the cruel, bullying. sinister, evil, satanic, sadistic pustulant blood that seeps through the black grotesque vessels of your kind.
    Do your kind love being so ugly on the inside.
    I smell that stench of ugliness now from miles away and will never fall foul again, I just wish education would move fast enough that the supply would cease totally for your kind.
    HG how so your kind think you would cope if your only supply were each other. would it be better for you to go for an equal but then you would know each other’s tricks, or would you prefer the lesser or mid who do not know your manipulations.
    Funny but you’d all be taking off when it’s neg fuel time, as there would be none to recieve, as you would be too anxious to go off looking for more positive in another short golden.
    However could you gain pleasurable positive golden if your aware there’s no prospect of long term fuel and ensnarement???
    You’d have to start your own narc dating sites and do role play as empaths lol
    More amateur dramatics required there lol

  28. o,,, says:

    to have done such a thing would make you a a horrible worthless being,
    no excuse

  29. Narcissists Cartoon says:

    Aha, so this is the x ray vision of a psychopath, but HG you didn’t mention wether the blonde girl was/is an empathic. I assume that you must have already studied this.

    Anyway, I really wished if her daddy picked her up, at least the story will have a happy ending.

    1. Carol M says:

      Not necessarily. If she is not immune to Mr Tudor, she problably has close relatives, siblings or even parents of their kind. That’s why she was his choosen prey…
      Anyway, we’re here to learn there is no such thing as a happy ending. “All magic comes with a price, dearie.”

      1. Narcissists Cartoon says:

        Hello Carol M,

        Thanks for replying to my comment. And moreover your clarification about who is more exposed to the narcissist’s trap.

        I agree with you about what you said, “All magic comes with a price”. What I actually meant by a happy ending is that I wished if a girl left with her family, as I was just concerned about her safety.

      2. MB says:

        Omg, Carol…I ❤️ Once Upon a Time. Rumple is the best character!

      3. Carol M says:

        Hello Narcissists Cartoon, how do you do. Yes, she is prone to attract narcs, so she is probably a ‘product’ of narcissitisc abuse already, having more than only physical scars on hers, unfortunately. “All magic comes with a price, dearie” is a quote from Rumplestilstkin on the ABC show Once Upon a Time, oddly a show about fairy tales where plenty of narcs can be spotted! Thank you for reading my reply <3

        1. Narcissists Cartoon says:

          Am very well Carol, I hope you are doing well too.
          Aha, a TV show. Thanks for letting me know. In fact am an eastern Arabian girl, that’s why am not familiar with this TV show or movie. I do extra effort to grasp the comments that is made here as most of them are in UK English and I studied American English.

  30. Jules says:


  31. tigerchelle78 says:

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again…. I absolutely hate you! 🖕

    1. Carol M says:

      Hello TigerChelle, please, you probably don’t hate him but what he represents. Mr. Tudor and Madonna must be the only narcs helping us heal, after all! “What you need is a big strong hand to lift you to a higher ground! Make you feel like a queen on a throne, make him love you ’till you can’t go down!” xoxo

      1. tigerchelle78 says:

        No…. Carol M. I do not need a strong hand to lift me out to higher ground. Nor to make me feel like a queen on some fake throne or pedestal. Nor fake love. (That’s like what a Narc would do) and I don’t fall for that B.S.

        I will lift myself up and out when I’m good and ready. I will heal myself. As I always do. You cannot rely on someone else for your happiness. If you do, you will always be disappointed!
        I do not wish to be treated like a queen. I wish to be treated…. (I don’t know the answer to this…..)
        Nobody can love you so much that you can’t go down. That is unrealistic. But they can love you despite who and what you are, and decide not to ever leave you.

        And as HG explains… it is not hardly any fuel to him if I say: ‘I hate him’ or whatever else. He doesn’t love it! Nor does he get wounded by it. And I already knew all of this before he put that comment up. Therefore I can say these things if I wish to. If HG feels wounded or challenged or anything else by me, then he will tell me directly himself.

        But many on here tend to think of him like a person with feelings like ours. He does not have feelings like ours. He does not get upset like we do. He does not even feel hurt. He does not feel love. He does not miss people. He ONLY feels fuel and gets wounded. (Which is criticism but said in a certain way and probably only to his face.)
        We are all faceless non-important appliances in here.
        No matter how professional he is or how superficially kind and considerate he is. It is learnt behaviour over an amount of time. He copies and imitates. That’s all there is to it. He is very good at this. Do not confuse this with actual feelings.

        Madonna is not a Narc, she is borderline I thought, as am I. Many people get confused between Narcs and Borderline’s, because there are some overlapping symptoms. They are both on the cluster B spectrum.
        But I can tell you this…. And that is…
        Narcs and Borderline’s are probably the most disliked in this world.
        Between the both of them, they cause and leave the most destruction behind them.

      2. Newby 1111 says:

        Finally it all makes sense.
        Finally I know why I have hidden behind the false security boundary of a narc for 40 years.
        Finally I know how at 23 someone many years older could convince me I was worthless, to suck the life from my soul and drain every dime my kids should have had to further their education.
        Finally, with only a small ember of my soul glimmering, did I start to see and understand what I had been banging my head against the wall for so long about.
        At least with the false boundaries of a spouse and a job where no one ever crossed my boundaries I felt safe from the 4 years I was out in my own for college.
        I must have been a predatory narcissist in a past life to have come back as a tall, thin blue eyes blonde. Just to get payback on the other side.
        I traded my life, running from those I thought only wanted me for one thing, to one who wanted me for the trophy on his arm, and my hard work so he didn’t have to.(too bad I didn’t understand that the good ones were intimidated by my physical appearance, so never asked to know the kind soul beneath.
        I kept to my loyalties. After all, he was just a hurt traumatized child and I was a teacher of young children.
        Surely the universe matched us for me to heal him.
        So armed with no knowledge of what a narcissist or psychopath was, armed with no boundaries nor defenses, I was taken down by a predatory psychopath.
        Be careful what you gripe about!!
        If I thought it felt badly and messed your mind to be worked by a narc, I was brought to my lowest depths by a psychopath.
        It has taken a year of trauma therapy to just stop sobbing every day.
        That didn’t do anything for the constant haunting of WHY??? And HOW??
        How could I have been duped so easily? How could I not see this happening?
        Why was I so vulnerable?
        Finally Mr. H. G.
        I heard you speak on the World Narc Abuse panel.
        AH HA!! You did it for me!
        Your honest view into the whys and how’s and why me finally made sense to my mind that just couldn’t let go of the trauma.
        Your hypnotic voice, your charm, your “smooth” lured me right in and I was captivated.
        I wanted to despise you, wanted to make you see or help you heal.
        Worthless ambitions I see, as there is nothing to heal.
        I was amazed how even with a year of studying every article, book and webinar to prepare myself for the real world, your voice still bore through my rational side and tugged at the very strings of vulnerability I have thought were getting secured.
        You, MR. HG, are doing a great service to humanity by sharing your twisted view.
        I could only wish my predator could open up and share honestly like you have.
        It would further heal this strong kind soul who had been pulled by outer influences to the twisted side.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you for your candour and you are most welcome.

      3. Carol M says:

        Thank You very much TigerChelle78 your comment left me with a lot to think about! Safe healing <3

    2. tigerchelle78 says:

      Sorry HG…

      1. /iroll says:

        Madonna is extremely narcissistic, a callous strategist and driven by the need for success. I don’t see her as having bpd.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          She’s a narcissist.

          1. tigerchelle78 says:

            Does not compute…. H..G …Tudor
            You will be assimilated…
            Resistance is futile…

        2. tigerchelle78 says:

          I’ve read it in articles about her being borderline. She even did a song called “borderline”. As I said, BPD’s can have very strong Narc traits. Often because of having a narcissistic parent/s. Many people diagnose someone narcissist when they could be borderline or the other way around. It is hard to tell some apart as there is such an overlap. I do see her as very much a borderline though.

      2. /iroll says:

        “Narcs and Borderline’s are probably the most disliked in this world.
        Between the both of them, they cause and leave the most destruction behind them.”

        – Actually that is people with ASPD

        1. tigerchelle78 says:

          Anti-social or Adult Separation?

      3. Chihuahuamum says:

        Now now HG thats my cuz youre talking about 😄

        1. tigerchelle78 says:

          Madonna is your cousin???

      4. Chihuahuamum says:

        Veryyyy distant cousin lol

        1. tigerchelle78 says:

          You gotta start with that next time chihuahuamum…. “so yeah I’m actually a very distant cousin of Madonna” ……

      5. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi tigerchelle…very true about people confusing borderlines with narcissists. Borderlines are usually women but not always. Theres a borderline man on utube. I dont follow him but it was an eyeopener to see a male borderline out there.
        Borderlines share common traits but have empathy and in some cases are very empathetic and hypersensitive. Where the destruction comes in is their inability or struggle to regulate themselves emotionally. This also happens with narcissists. One minute they can be happy and the next triggered into a crisis or a depression. Like npd its a spectrum so severity varies. Dbt therapy can help so much. Borderlines have more of a chance at recovery than narcissists.
        I think borderlines can be stigmatized and its sad to see bc there are some great people who struggle with bpd. I can see how people would tho bc of the manipulation and the behaviours.
        Both bpd and npd share traits but borderlines have the ability to feel empathy whereas narcs cant. Theyre incapable of it.

      6. Chihuahuamum says:

        Tigerchelle… it was meant as tongue in cheek not literally lol

      7. /iroll says:

        Npd is not bpd, not like it, at all. Madonna’s song ‘borderline’ is about the crazy feelings everyone has when they have a crush, everyone does have borderline and narcissistic traits. Every love song or romance film, is ‘borderline’.

        She wasn’t singing it from a clinical psychology perspective.

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