The Seven Sins of the Empath’s Self-Doubt


In the beginning you are resourceful, confident and independent. Those attributes are there with no need for brazen displays but rather they exist in an understated and quiet manner. Then we arrive. The imposition of our manipulations is designed to bring life to these seven sins in order to leave you susceptible to our further machinations and control. These doubts will enable us to hoover you, draw fuel from you and maintain that connection we rely on to further our own ambitions.

  1. Is it actually my fault?


We will have you asking yourself and pondering whether what has happened is your fault. Did you do something to attract someone like us? Did you miss some sign which you ought to have seen and therefore it is your own failing which has caused you to be exposed to our control and abuse? We will have you analyse your behaviours as you become burdened with guilt. We are the experts in shifting the blame and through the repeated application of denial, deflection and projection, we will avoid any and all culpability for our actions, leaving them to impact on you. It must be your fault if we are so adamant that it is not our fault. The conviction by which we pin the blame on you will have you questioning yourself. It is natural for you to always reflect on your own behaviour, that is central to who you are and we know this. Add to this our incessant blame-shifting and this steady drip drip drip of the accumulation of blame will eventually take its toll and you will start to accept the blame and regard yourself at fault.

  1. Did I love him enough?


How many times have you been told, “You would do it if you loved me,” or “You wouldn’t do that if you actually loved me like you say you do”. You face the ultimate in supposed love through our love bombing and it sheer scale of apparent passion, affection and love would cause anything else to pale by comparison. You will always have this thrown in your face as we tell you time and time again about how much love we have shown for you, how we have loved you beyond anything else and nobody could love you any more than we do. Is it any wonder when faced with such repeated assertions and the behemoth that we are of love that you will query whether you gave enough love towards us? Perhaps we behave the way we do because we feel that we love you more than you love us? We will certainly tell you that and because you are such a devotee of love you will feel obligated to try to match what you have received. You cannot do so because the love we exhibit is smoke and mirrors, easy to conjure up, easy to say and what you understand as love takes more effort, but this will not stop you always wondering whether you do enough and whether a little more love might just be the solution that is needed to make everything perfect again. Thus, we keep you hanging on and trying all the harder.

  1. Was I wrong to leave?


This nagging doubt has to be created by us on order to keep alive the prospect of hoovering you. We know that you possess a near indefatigable spirit that causes you to stay and try to make things rights. So often it us that brings about the cessation (albeit temporary) of our relationship and we discard you. On the rare occasion where you decide that you have had enough and make a break for the border, to free yourself of our poisonous influence, we know that you will have reservations about doing so. You do not like to give up on people. You like to succeed. You desire for success is not the same as our self-centred drive for achievement but rather your success sf for other people and we know this. We know that you want to achieve resolution, that is why we lead you around the houses and up the garden path with our circular arguments. We know that you prefer to achieve an outcome, hence why we never fully answer questions, deflect and deny. This desire for a conclusion means that should you ever walk away from us we know you will be plagued by some guilt that you should not have done it. What if he could have been helped? What if he could change? What if he needed your help? Such doubts will manifest and mean that when we loom large as we seek to hoover you, this desire to leave nothing hanging (along with a host of other manipulative methods designed to get you to return) will leave you susceptible to being hoovered back into our twisted world.

  1. Should I have given him another chance?


Maybe if you had given us another chance (to add to the dozen or so that you have already given us) then the outcome might have been different? You invested so much and you gave us so many chances, perhaps you have cut loose too soon? Maybe one more chance was all that was required and now you are left wondering if you have made a mistake and lost the opportunity to help us and resolve our problems. Perhaps you had better try again and give that further chance? It would be such a shame not to do so, especially after all the effort you have put in? This might have been the point at which everything clicked and we finally made the changes and gained the understanding and insight that is required to return to a permanent golden period. You want to see good happen, we know this and therefore we know that you have that nagging itch that if you just gave us another chance this might be the one that is required to get us past the post. It won’t be, but we like to engender this hope in your mind so that you succumb to this doubt and return to us to try again. And again. And again.

  1. What if someone else makes him happy?


Have I been too hasty in making my escape? What if he finds someone else and she makes him happy? It shows it can be done and I let him go and now someone else is going to get the benefit of that wonderful golden period and she might get it all the time. Why should she get this when you have endured both the black with the golden? You are entitled to receive the golden period again surely? Perhaps it was something you had done and now she knows what to avoid because he will tell her what you did in the relationship and she will avoid making your mistake and reap the reward. How is that fair? Why should she benefit from the pain you have endured? It is your golden period and you want it back because it felt so wonderful. In fact, having checked his Facebook page for the sixth time today there seems to be a lot of mutual liking of one another’s posts between him and some new lady, whoever she is. What’s going on there? Has he found someone new already? Could she be the one? You had better act and do so quickly to avoid someone else getting the golden period for good. Why not ring him and arrange to meet up? Head her off at the pass? Yes, we instil such doubts in your mind in order to have you come back to us once more.

  1. Maybe I didn’t help him as much as I could have


There was something clearly wrong with him but maybe he could not help doing all those things. Perhaps something terrible once happened to him and this is why he behaves in such an abhorrent manner? Surely you should show some compassion and understanding in order to help him be free of whatever demons that plague him, after all, are you not a kind and considerate person. This is what you do isn’t it? Help people. You should not run out on him now, he needs you and you are the only one who can save him. Just be understanding, help him, give him what he needs and then together you can overcome whatever it is that has taken hold of him. You have seen him bleed, he is human just like you and it is help that he needs not condemnation. Yes, what he did to you was terrible but what if that could not be helped, what if he was trying to ask for your help and did not know how to ask for it? Now you have walked away from him, right when it is his hour of need. That’s not very empathic is it? That isn’t who you are. You are kind and caring, a healer. Go back and apologise and help him. Submit to his demands and help him walk through his personal hell, surely it is the least you can do, yes?

  1. Did I deserve it?


You spoke out of turn too many times so what did you expect him to do? He is a proud man and it was inevitable he would lash out. If you had not been so weak, you would have not annoyed him. Perhaps if you had done more of what he wanted, gone along with his demands just for the sake of quiet, things would have been drastically different? If you had not been so stubborn or had tried to change him? If you had not tried to mother him? If you had tried to mother him? If you had been someone else? If you had stayed true to yourself? If you had been more like his mother? Less like his mother? More like her? Less like her? You did try but somehow you always seemed to rile him and then the insults and assaults would fly. Maybe if you had kept a civil tongue in your mouth it would have turned out differently? Perhaps if you had tried to look at things from his perspective more often rather than thinking about yourself, then the outcome would have been better? You wish you were stronger and you needed to be stronger for both you and him, but you weren’t and that must the reason he treated you the way he did. Your weakness irritated him. Maybe if you had not been so pathetic then he would have continued to love you like he once did. Perhaps if you had not fought back when he was despondent he would not have felt the need to put you in your place. Maybe you just did not do enough of what he needed because you were too busy focussing on how you felt and that is why it all came tumbling down? Maybe you failed to understand him because you were too wrapped up in yourself? Maybe, just maybe, you got what you deserved?


169 thoughts on “The Seven Sins of the Empath’s Self-Doubt

  1. Dandelion says:

    Thank you HG. This is my comment.
    “HG i personally don’t hate you or consider you a nasty bastard!
On the opposite i appreciate your job ON the site. As i stated before i consider it a VERY precious declaration of what you are. Or better how narcissistic dynamics work.
I consider that a gift, a concession.
It’s like a trip inside of the NARC’s mind.
Thanks to that i can become AWARE OF WHAT NARCISSISM IS.
I perfectly understand that you have more efficient and powerful sources for fuel.
That’s why i personally consider this a unique and VERY respectful stage for authentic and reciprocate knowledge and discovery of different kind of personalities and perspectives.
I have two considerations i would like to discuss with you.
The first has come to my mind by observing MY husband’ s actual life.
New HOUSE, New Car, new job, new friends, New primary source, new life!
Why should a NARC ever feel the need to change if it works so well for him?
And That’s the consideration of the surface. What people can percieve about him. Or better what he wants people to see and think of him.
But in your opinion: does it really work HG?
Or isn’t it better like living the illusion Of a sense of happiness that almost soon disappears? Revealing your delusional disappointment for having your ideal of perfection not become true?
I never forget that the basement of NARCISSISM there is devastating suffering.
The second consideration is that as an empath, i’m working to discover unconditional love.
Someone told me i that i shoud’t love MY NARC ex husband.
That i should hate him instead.
And forget about him.
The Truth is i will always love him.
This love won’t avoid me from having a new life AFTER him. Or love in a genuine way again. Even if this is MY biggest fear at present time.
Anyway i think about the meaning of the Word UNCONDITIONAL.
IT means accepting another person for what he or she is.
Love is something that comes within me. It’s a gift i decide to give with no expectations to being reciprocate or receiving something back.
And it depends on me, not on the other person.
Healing myself means releasing all of MY expectations. And that will set me free…”

  2. WhoCares says:

    I found this very insightful DUTG.

  3. Dandelion says:

    Thank you HG. This is my comment.

    “HG i personally don’t hate you or consider you a nasty bastard!
    On the opposite i appreciate your job ON the site. As i stated before i consider it a VERY precious declaration of what you are. Or better how narcissistic dynamics work.
    I consider that a gift, a concession.
    It’s like a trip inside of the NARC’s mind.
    Thanks to that i can become AWARE OF WHAT NARCISSISM IS.
    I perfectly understand that you have more efficient and powerful sources for fuel.
    That’s why i personally consider this a unique and VERY respectful stage for authentic and reciprocate knowledge and discovery of different kind of personalities and perspectives.
    I have two considerations i wud like ti discuss with you.
    The first has come to my mind by observing MY husband’ s actual life.
    New HOUSE, New Car, new job, new friends, New primary source, new life!
    Why should a NARC ever feel the need to change if it works so well for him?
    And That’s the consideration of the surface. What people can percieve about him. Or better what he wants people to see and think of him.
    But in your opinion: does it really work HG?
    Or isn’t it better like living the illusion Of a sense of happiness that almost soon disappears? Revealing your delusional disappointment for having your ideal of perfection not become true?
    You write IF IT HURTS, IT WORKS.
    But i ask you: IF IT WORKS, WHY DOES IT HURT?
    I never forget that the basement of NARCISSISM there is devastating suffering.
    The second consideration is that as an empath, i’m working to discover unconditional love.
    Someone told me i that i shoud’t love MY NARC ex husband.
    That i should hate him instead.
    And forget about him.
    The Truth is i will always love him.
    This love won’t avoid me from having a new life AFTER him. Or love in a genuine way again. Even if this is MY biggest fear at present time.
    Anyway i think about the meaning of the Word UNCONDITIONAL.
    IT means accepting another person for what he or she is.
    Love is something that comes within me. It’s a gift i decide to give with no expectations to being reciprocate or receiving something back.
    And it depends on me, not on the other person.
    Healing myself means releasing all of MY expectations. And that will set me free…”

  4. Sunniva says:

    Dear HG,
    Your blog and the information you share is revolutionary. How the readers regard it is all about perspectives, which also make every reader responsible for their interpretations. To be uninformed about a subject or a segment is one thing, but when you have gained the necessary information needed it is up to every person how to use it.
    How people view the information you share never stop to amaze and amuse (meaning the humours posts) me, and from some of them I learn and gain to my knowledge about NPD.
    This is the purpose for me. I don’t like the ‘empathic victim situation’, and why should I. Every person is responsible for their own life. What you choose to increase your knowledge about is optional, and how you use that information is up to you. Victimization of your own person is never necessary.
    HG, you have helped me come a long way in my logical thinking. I will always react with emotions, but I will do so from new perspectives when it comes to a narcissist thanks to you. For that I am forever grateful.
    I know what you are. That information is all over your blog, but I don’t look at it from a victim’s perspective. I use my interactions with you for my gain, just as you. And for the record: you have given me much more than I have given you.
    Easy as that😊

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you Sunniva, that is appreciated.

  5. Dandelion says:

    “Dandelion on February 5, 2018 at 22:29
    Your comment is awaiting moderation”

    HG I posted a comment here last night.
    But something was a little bit wrong in sending it. It completely disappeared. Then reappeared again.
    Is it a question you have not had approved it yet, or maybe it has not arrived because of a technical problem?
    Do i have to send it again?
    Thank you.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Dandelion, I do not see it in moderation so I recommend you send your comment again.

  6. Kate says:

    Hurt&Confused, DUTG and Jasmine..

    Thank you for your kind words of support.

  7. DUTG says:

    OK on MY iPad now where I can write the bad words, so I just say I meant, “I survived THAT fucker, I can survive…jumping out of an airplane, walking over a bed of hot coals, knives thrown at me because I work at the carnival, etc. etc. etc.” Great post NA! Loved it!

    1. Narc Angel says:


      Are you laughing at my pain???!!!!

      Oh fuck it…Im not mad at you. Im dead serious and mean every word of it, but lets face it-that shit IS hilarious when I read it back.

      If I had a cat I would have told it: K says your a cunt.

      1. DUTG says:

        Never NA would laugh at your pain, at your abuse. Never. Abuse is not funny. But you are! I want to be a host on your All Narc Network. And a contestant.

      2. K says:

        Ha ha ha…poor kitty! Thanks for the many laughs this morning, NA!

      3. DUTG says:

        Laughing hard at the way you pointed out my Sigmund Freud error!!! You are so funny!!!

  8. Fairy says:

    Hi DUTG, for some reason there is no reply button under your response. I do not think you are challenging me, and even if you did, you are in your right, and we all have the right to an opinion, even if they differ.

    I did not refer to the actual content of his reply, and I do understand that HG was just trying to elaborately clear the misunderstanding and misconceptions caused by Winter’s post, I was just referring to the character of the response, which to me (sorry HG), sounded exactly like when you confront a narc about something and they say it’s all in your head and that you are imagining something that is not there.

    I was merely referring to the pattern, not content itself, although even content is on point all things considered, except that in this case, HG is telling the truth.

    I hope this clarifies what I was trying to say.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Makes sense, thanks for clarifying.

  9. Julie Petkovska says:

    Hi HG, no using my name doesn’t bother me at all, I don’t write here that often so its ok. I don’t comment on others issues or reasons for interactions, nor comment about my current lovers or exes. I am not the one to constantly talk feelings, that’s me… just let me me know the type I am dealing with and figure out what manipulations are coming my way and whether to stay entangled, keeping that side via email, happy to pay for your services when necessary.
    I wish everyone the best of luck with their issues and situations and if I was to need your help HG again i know where to find you. Thank you for your education and your theories, I think with the next gen your work will be needed alot more. Enjoy your evening, night or day depending on where you are.

  10. DUTG says:

    Oh! And I didn’t mean I survived bad words and bad names. Hell I wish that was all it was. I even used to say physical abuse may have been easier to heal from than the psychological warfare. Thanks for your post Angel!

    1. Jasmine says:

      I’ve had them all. Pain and I have a close relationship. And I’ve been on life support for 10 days, I know trauma. The physical *is easier to heal from than the verbal/ emotional. (It is taking a much bigger toll on me.)
      But the physical abuse also comes with it’s own psychological problems, so then that’s another can of worms. It’s all abuse regardless, no matter what it does, or how it harms us… we still have to deal with it.

      1. Kimi says:

        The physical abuse made me afraid of him; it also made me aware of the preceding emotional, sexual and financial abuse. Realizing he was a Narcissist has made me leary of humankind as a whole; my boundaries are up!

        I agree that it is far easier to heal physically, although the fear never left me until I moved far away from him.

        1. Jasmine says:

          I agree Kimi. The fear is quite paralyzing. It took 20yrs (ex tried to kill me) to trust someone to live in my home again.. and now this. I don’t foresee it happening again.

      2. Kimi says:


        20 years is long time… I’m sorry you were betrayed again! I haven’t lived with a romantic partner since him, 15 years ago and I sleep with a gun within reach of my bed. Sad that our relationships have had this negative impact on the way we live our lives. Now we know better and can choose better when we’re ready!

        1. Jasmine says:

          I’ve thought about buying a gun. I already carry a switchblade, some mace/pepper spray, bought security cameras, have a guard dog, yadda yadda.. but it doesn’t do much good if we *let them in*
          I am way too naive and trusting.. Plus I’m susceptible to all types. Arg. So I’m hoping I can learn to spot them beforehand. That’s the plan anyway 🙂

          1. Kimi says:


            You are well armed! You’re right though; it doesn’t do any good if we naively let them in…

            I discovered HG’s YouTube and Narcsite a little over a year ago. I’ve been learning about NPD and absorbing it all daily. I went on a great date last summer (met via an on-line dating site 🙄). I liked him and enjoyed myself, but my gut was warning me. I thought about his behavior: subtly crossing boundaries (a first kiss), future-faking, insisting on buying me a gift (I didn’t let him), talking rudely to the store clerk… DING DING DING!!! I later asked him if he was a Narc and he replied he might have some Narcissistic traits… I blocked him and never spoke to him again. I knew he was a Narcissist!

            Like you, I’m very naive and trusting. Now I listen to those lovely empathic emotions warning me away from trouble! I’m sure I’ll hone my skills with time. So now we’re naive, trusting and armed with knowledge!

          2. Jasmine says:

            Good for you! Way to “spot the narc”!! I am just starting to see… I think I’m in the “narcs narcs everywhere!!” stage. (Still waiting on my decoder ring to arrive in the mail) 😉 It’s a long process of recovery. Not only do we need to understand and heal from our relationships, but we have to find our own weaknesses that make us susceptible… and then learn new ways of interacting.

          3. K says:

            Jasmine & Kimi
            Narcs surround me so sometimes I sing this song to myself.

            Old MACDONALD had a farm
            And on his farm he had a narc
            With a narc narc here
            And a narc narc there
            Here a narc, there a narc
            Everywhere a narc narc
            Old MacDonald had a farm

          4. Jasmine says:

            LOL K! Love the song. Haha. Funny how those nursery rhymes get stuck in our heads.

            ‘Goldinarc and the Three Empaths’ had me singing ~hi-ho, hi-ho, it’s off to bed I go~ 🙄

          5. K says:

            Those songs really do get stuck in your head and I was singing~hi-ho, hi-ho, it’s off to bed I go~ just like you…except the ho turned out to be Goldinarc. LOL!

      3. Kimi says:


        Well put! I’m still in the “See Narcs everywhere” stage too!🧐


        Love your sense of humor!💗

        1. K says:

          Thank you, Kimi!

  11. DUTG says:

    Angel: “I’ve already been abused by the best of the worst”. I am still laughing at this even though physical abuse is seriously NOT funny. What is so funny about your post is shows how empowered and strong you are and how small they truly are.

  12. SarcNarc says:


    I see my comment going in the wrong place all the time.

    I referred to this when I asked about your thoughts on projection: “Just because we need what the empath provides best, doesn’t mean we have to like it, indeed, our reliance on those needs from someone who is regarded as inferior from our perspective is a source of irritation and annoyance to us.”

  13. Narc Angel says:

    I need to get this out:

    The Fucker that caused me to come here looking for answers sucked fuel from, and abused (in every aspect) everyone in his path for 78 (ish) years, destroyed my family and never gave anyone anything in return.

    Now why the fuck would I care if the man behind this blog who has given me the answers I searched for for 55 yrs, and continues to provide the information other victims can use to get that clarity and be spared or escape actually gets a whiff or drop of diluted and anonymous fuel in exchange for that? He could get more fuel in person from someone at the corner newsstand.

    What in the actual fuck are people worried will happen to me? Is he going to finger bang me over the airwaves to his HUSH video? Stand me up for a date? Send me a dick pic? Give me a silent treatment? I’ve already been abused by the best of the worst (a violent Lesser) in every way and for a good part of my life in person, so I fail to see what HG could take from me. As an added bonus: If hes busy sitting behind his keyboard getting low grade fuel from me (who doesnt give a shit) hes not out there abusing someone in real life for the potent stuff now is he?
    Youre welcome.

    Plenty of negative fuel flowing here right now due to my annoyance so plug in HG and lets do this.
    I’ll even pay it forward for others-thats how unconcerned I am.

    I suspect you will decline due to lack of interest because the frequency, potency, and quantity will be less than you desire or require. I learned that from you here in the safety of my home while on my Ipad.


    1. Narc Angel says:

      Oh… forgot to add that it works both ways. While I am on here with a virtual narcissist and his guests, I am not out and about in my real life fucking around with, or being fucked over by a real one.

    2. HG Tudor says:

      On point.

    3. DUTG says:

      Angel, I know you did not mean this to be funny. Please don’t be made at me for laughing out loud. But this post was FUNNY! I tell myself similar things at times, like if I have to do something I am afraid to do (like zip line or sky dive or bungee jump). I am like, I survived THAT (bad words, bad names, etc. etc.), I can do THIS!

    4. ava101 says:

      One single small remark by someone named Winter, and then 20 or so comments on that, blowing up.
      Why? And how often do you want to repeat that?

      Yes, HG could; no, he hasn’t ensnared me so far, thank you, HG, but certainly has a complete manual for me if he wishes so; if he had ensnared anyone else – how would we ever know?! We cannot. …

      It would not be as easy as with other victims as we are after narc and not blindly stumbling into something … we would know, what we are dealing with … but we are not immune and HG certainly has other “weapons” on hand he does not tell us about, why would he disclose his most valuable assets and even teach us how to fend him off … We don’t know anything about him, nor about his real tactics and plans. If I lived in England, I would never contact him for a consultation (and maybe he’s not even there …).

      HG is not your average narc, Narc Angel, but, if “diagnosed” correctly, or stated here correctly, classified as the “most evil” sort of character possible. I value his persona here and his help, and what he has done for me outweighs all other thoughts. But this doesn’t mean that caution as suggested by some commenters is pointless or even irrational in general.

      I daresay that there are many ways how he can be out and about or degrading/even torturing his girlfriend(s) mentally or physically while writing here. It doesn’t make sense to block this out of your thoughts. Sure, maybe he sits tame in his office, writing, being content with his collections, scrap book, messages, videos, cameras, controlling God knows what thanks to technology, while he can watch his girlfriend safely and happily sleeping in bed. Or maybe not. We do not know.

      Or am I wrong, HG? Are you my rescue teddy bear with super powers? And I sure hope that you are content communicating with us, that we suffice, with no dark thoughts on your mind at all and not doing anything on the side (or v.v.). You have your slippers on, tea on your desk, happy to be of help, yes?

      I agree that’s it’s good not to be out there talking to a real life narc, but at the same time, we should be out there and meet nice, trustworthy people … I’ve read somewhere that there are supposed to be a few.

    5. Excellent NA 🙂

    6. abrokenwing says:

      Well said NA.

    7. K says:

      Very good, NA.

      A friendly reminder: HG does not take dick pics.

      1. Narc Angel says:


        His business if he doesnt accept them. Does he send them?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Ha ha very good. No, he does not send them or receive them.

        2. K says:

          Ha ha ha… I probably should have worded that better, NA.

      2. Sniglet says:

        I like HG’s honesty.

        He denied sending and receiving them.

        At least he didn’t deny taking them.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Very observant. They are not solo endeavours.

        2. K says:

          Oh shit, that cracked me up! Ha ha ha…well, he does have an excellent conceit of himself.

  14. Kate says:

    After leaving my last comment, I came to realize that I should be diagnosed with Avoidant Personality Disorder. I know this is an understandable coping mechanism for people like myself who have suffered various forms of abuse from all different sorts of people throughout a lifetime. The irreperable harm that has been inflicted on me by a man who I chose to let in is completely irreversable and that is not being dramatic, but is instead a fact. I am utterly destroyed and devastated to the point now where I am so disgusting to myself that I don’t want to meet anyone’s eyes or even talk to old friends.

    1. Hurt&Confused(but it’s becoming clearer) says:

      I don’t know your situation and I am just a stranger online, but for what it’s worth, the harm done to you is not irreparable. It seems you are experiencing symptoms of depression, which is understandable if you have been abused in some way. When we are depressed we view everything through a distorted lens. We tend to engage in absolute thinking “I will never get better” “what’s the point, it always goes wrong in the end” “ I’m utterly worthless”….but this sort of thinking is distorted. It’s not the whole picture.
      Believe me, we are all much more resilient than we give ourselves credit for. You acknowledge that you engage in avoidant behaviour, the fact you have this self-awareness is a positive sign. It means you can do something about it. Don’t give up.

    2. DUTG says:

      Kate, I understand. Whereas some people go out and want to start dating immediately, I just wanted to hibernate after narc ex husband for a very long time. Maybe it is PTSD. Maybe it’s just the poison talking. Maybe it is the impact of intermittent abuse, gaslighting, the whole buffet of abuse. Stay here and keep posting.

    3. Jasmine says:

      Do you have a therapist Kate? It might be easier to talk to a stranger.

    4. Narc Angel says:


      Its only a fact that its irreparable and irreversible if thats what you decide. He does not get to decide that for you. Can you try instead to see that both he and the past are irrelevant except as an example of what not to allow again? You are not disgusting. That is what he wants you to carry for him because he is too weak to accept it for himself, but you do not have to. You decide.
      Looking down you will only see him, so look up. Talk to old friends, and make new ones, always looking up.


      1. DUTG says:


        That was beautiful poetic advice about looking up, not down.


        Thinking of you!


  15. Dandelion says:

    HG i personally don’t hate you or consider you a nasty bastard!
    On the opposite i appreciate your job ON the site. As i stated before i consider it a VERY precious declaration of what you are. Or better how narcissistic dynamics work.
    I consider that a gift, a concession.
    It’s like a trip inside of the NARC’s mind.
    Thanks to that i can become AWARE OF WHAT NARCISSISM IS.
    I perfectly understand that you have more efficient and powerful sources for fuel.
    That’s why i personally consider this a unique and VERY respectful stage for authentic and reciprocate knowledge and discovery of different kind of personalities and perspectives.
    I have two considerations i wud like ti discuss with you.
    The first has come to my mind by observing MY husband’ s actual life.
    New HOUSE, New Car, new job, new friends, New primary source, new life!
    Why should a NARC ever feel the need to change if it works so well for him?
    And That’s the consideration of the surface. What people can percieve about him. Or better what he wants people to see and think of him.
    But in your opinion: does it really work HG?
    Or isn’t it better like living the illusion Of a sense of happiness that almost soon disappears? Revealing your delusional disappointment for having your ideal of perfection not become true?
    You write IF IT HURTS, IT WORKS.
    But i ask you: IF IT WORKS, WHY DOES IT HURT?
    I never forget that ON the basement of NARCISSISM there is devastating suffering.
    The second consideration is that as an empath, i’m working to discover uncondional love.
    Someone told me i that i shoud’t love MY NARC ex husband.
    That i should should hate him instead. IT forget about him.
    The Truth is i will always love him.
    This love won’t avoid me from having a new life AFTER him. Or love in a genuine way again. Even if this is MY biggest fear at present time.
    Anyway i think about the meaning of the Word UNCONDITIONAL.
    IT means accepting another person for what he or she is.
    Love is something that comes within me. It’s a gift i decide to give with no expectstions to being reciprocate or receiving something back.
    And it depends on me, not on the other person.
    Healing myself means releasing all of MY expectations. And that will set me free…

  16. Fairy says:

    Dear all,

    I have been frequenting this blog often and have read some very useful things that have confirmed and taught me a lot about what happened to me, so, HG, thank you.

    I have been reading the comments in this thread and have just noticed something that all of you may or may not agree with. Namely, Winter started off as an old supply trying to warn the newbies about the Narc, and most of the backlash comments look symptomatic of new supplies defending the “wronged” partner from the psycho ex she-devil from the pits of hell. HG, your initial response looks like a gaslighting attempt – deny, deny, deny, and turn the tables on the disoriented Empath.

    Winter, ironically, sometimes you have to interview the prince of darkness himself to understand how hell is governed, and watching the videos with Sam Vaknin, among other things, helped me fortify my defenses and finally get my closure.

    Responding to a question in one of the threads, HG explained why he is doing this, apart from being a part of his therapy (HG, correct me if I am wrong about this), which is that he owes no loyalty to “his kind” and actually gets a kick out of arming the empaths to defend themselves.

    In all honesty, it scares me to think about the type of life form that is behind this blog, but at the same time, a lot of the posts are possible scenarios and how to prevent them.

    Live long and prosper!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Fairy and thank you for you observation, it is interesting how you have drawn comparisons with various situations you have described and it is always helpful to have regard to these perceptions. A few observations :-

      1. There is no need to warn in this instance because
      (a) I am upfront about what I am (unlike how the seduction usually pans out)
      (b) The readers know what I am (unlike the new victim who does not know what they are dealing with)
      (c) For a variety of reasons which I have already expanded on, it is an entirely different dynamic.

      2. The responses from people are different from the usual response of a new victim. The new victim has only just been ensnared by the narcissist and is being shown the illusion. My readers are established and apart from very recent arrivals, have read lots, interacted and seen the interactions. There is no illusion being advanced, on the contrary they have ascertained the nature of the dynamic for themselves. Accordingly their responses are founded on evidence as opposed to doing so on the contrary.

      3. My responses were based on correcting the inaccuracies and as numerous people have confirmed demonstrates the actual dynamics here as opposed to the wrongful assumptions.

      4. You are correct as to one of the reasons that I do this.

      5. Being scared of ‘the life form behind this blog’ is an understandable response and not a bad one to keep in mind at times, albeit there is nothing for you to be scared of because you will never suffer at my hand, on the contrary, you can only benefit here from the information as you have kindly acknowledged.

      Well done on fortifying your defences.

      1. DUTG says:

        Hi Fairy. I am not trying to challenge you or blow smoke up HG’s arse. We all know he does not need it. Wait, he does need it, but not from here as this place (written word) only provides it at low levels. Sorry I digress and will refocus. I missed the ‘gaslighting’ bit in his responses. Can you show me where you saw it? Again, not trying to challenge you. I just did not see it.

  17. RJ says:

    I don’t think the post was coming from someone who has ever dealt with a narcissist. If wrong its an obvious wrong assumption on my part. Regardless of if this whole site is based on Narcissistic mental masturbation or not how did you find the site Winter? By typing in specifics of what happened in a relationship you have had? Or was it just by typing in narcissist which seems to becoming a buzzword in the Media and TV programming more frequently as of late when the story is about an individual whom is a sociopath, borderline, or of the psychopathic realm? Are you a spouse of any poster? You seem kind of pissed off.

  18. Jasmine says:

    “adjustments are being looked at”

    That sounds promising HG! Care to share?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I shall be doing so.

      1. Jasmine says:

        I look forward to reading. Thank you

  19. Louise says:

    Has anyone experienced the Cheshire Cat sinister smile? Or is it just me?

    1. K says:

      Yup. From my MMRN, his matrinarc, his sister, my ULN and my mother.

  20. Ina says:

    There are some questions i need to ask and one is from your book Fuel

    1. If Samantha would have stopped sending you messages, and asked you to take initiative to send messages first to start a daily conversation, would you have obliged her with morning messages?
    You said that you have conditioned her in such a way that she took care of them.

    2. Do greaters like to sext on sosial media instead of meeting in person during seduction period. Or this is only limited to middle og lessers? Is sexting can be a sign that someone is cereberal?

    3. Were all your exes very beautiful? have you dated anyone from Africa or Asia?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. Yes if I saw a gain in doing so.
      2. Sexting is used by all narcissists, but if it continues without meeting this may well suggest Victim or Cerebral, but it is purely an indicator in that regard and not determinative, because it might be that the narcissist is Somatic but is content for that person to remain a Self Digital IPSS for instance.
      3. Some pretty, some striking, some beautiful, some very beautiful – varies. Yes I have, from both places.

  21. abrokenwing says:

    If someone is being held hostage on this blog please post blinking emoji twice and I will call the authorities.

    1. Nuit Étoilée says:

      That made me laugh out loud – literally – ABW, thank you for that! (blink.. blink… 😉 j/k!)

    2. K says:

      Morse code emojis! That would be a riot.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        -. — .. – .– — ..- .-.. -.. -. — –

        1. Jasmine says:

          “-. — .. – .– — ..- .-.. -.. -. — –”

          Who can read Morse code?

      2. abrokenwing says:

        Does this actually mean anything?

        1. K says:

          Hell, I can’t figure it out ABW!

      3. DUTG says:

        HG is using morse code, but what it means I’m not sure. He may be sending a distress signal. I’m too braindead to Google. Long day at work. Plus, I think he’ll be ok.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Distress signal? C’mon!

      4. Narc Angel says:

        -. — .. – .– — ..- .-.. -.. -. — –

        C’mon you guys!!

        You cant identify a trail of narc crumbs?

      5. Sniglet says:

        Your Morse code has a typographical error, HG.

        Niuldn? What is that?

      6. HG,
        And now I’m looking up how to translate Morse code… damn it! 🙂

        1. HG Tudor says:

          .— — .-.. .-.. -.– / –. — — -..

      7. abrokenwing says:

        I came up with NUAULDNT Sniglet hence I asked.
        Then I found a morse code translator web so I copy-pasted the whole line but it showed me an error.
        Making fun of the truth seekers …😠

      8. .-.. --- ..- says:

        .– — .– .– …. .- – .- -.. .. … -.-. ..- … … .. — -. ·-·-·- –. .-. . . – .. -. –. … …. –. 🙂

      9. K says:

        ..-. ..- -.-. -.- .. -. –. .-

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Very good.

          1. K says:

            Thank you, HG! The morse code was really fun to play with.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Useful skill to have.

          3. Narc Angel says:

            Re: Morse code

            Sure. Useful if you happen to be trying to contact the other three old people on Earth that know it.

            Doesnt the very fact that youre using morse code pretty much mean: We’re fucked and need help-send someone, no matter how the dots and dashes are arranged? Has it ever been mistaken for: Mabel make me a sandwich?

          4. HG Tudor says:

            You’d be surprised how many people know morse code. It is useful in many situations.

          5. Narc Angel says:

            Very well. But I’m sure glad I wasnt stranded on an island in need of a tampon and waiting on this group to decipher.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            You would probably find some natural sponge on the island and that could be used as a tampon, so your morse code deciphering delay would not prove an issue.

          7. MLA - Clarece says:

            Hi NA. I was reading along to being stranded on an island and thought I would need a Mai Tai. But then I read “tampon”.
            You need to get yourself on that game show “Family Feud” with the answers you come up with. You would make great television. 😉

          8. Narc Angel says:


            Haha. We’ll form a team from our little family here. We wont win anything but we’ll have a blast.
            When I go to a comedy club I like to sit right up front. I never try to compete with the comedian like some do (hate that) but I will give them something to run with if they ask me a question. For instance, I went with a group from work and the comedian was just doing okay and making fun of another table that all worked at McDonalds. When he looked over to our table and asked where we worked I shocked my group by offering Wendys. He fed off of that and the crowd loved it. The sound of people laughing is my music.

          9. MLA - Clarece says:

            Let me guess NA… you were in charge of the “Frosty” Milkshakes…that make all the boys run in your direction. lol

          10. Narc Angel says:


            Damn right (wink). I could teach you but I’d have to charge…..

            (Im sure you dont need any lessons)

            I really hope Winter is still here and reading to see the fun and support we have in one another while learning and healing in the house of Tudor.

      10. abrokenwing says:

        I can read yours K 😁

        1. K says:

          Ha ha ha…I put it into the translator and made sure it decoded. I really enjoyed the blinking emoji comment; you have a great sense of humor.

      11. abrokenwing says:

        Thank you K.

      12. narc affair says:


        How about binary code? 🤓

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Binary is not approved – no prospect of triangulation.

      13. ava101 says:

        HG? How on Earth do you know about the natural sponge?!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I had an IPPS who went “environmentally friendly” years ago and this was one of the things she came up with and did.

          I went to my secret base in a hollowed out volcano and turned the laser cannon onto the ozone layer for ten minutes in response.

          1. Ha! Ha!

          2. Narc Angel says:

            Hahaha. Good thing you didnt have any old corks lying around.

      14. ava101 says:

        I suppose that’s what you get when you just had to ensnare an empath “who feels the whole world”, HG. 😉
        You had me laughing hard about this.
        Even I am not hardcore “green” enough for this, and it certainly would have had the exnarc running, seeing those thingies lying around to dry …

        So, that is where your control ends …

    3. Narc Angel says:


      That was very funny and another reason people feel comfortable and return here. While dealing with a very serious and sensitive subject and navigating the resulting articles and discussions, we are reminded that we are not alone, are human, and still have the capacity to make one another laugh. Thank you for that.

  22. DUTG says:

    To add using a totally made up narc help site hosted by a former victim as an example. If I decide to do a consultation and readily hand over my credit card details, I think I share some responsibilty if I’m ripped off and the site suddenly goes dark. Be aware and be smart EVERYWHERE is what I’m saying.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Has that happened to you elsewhere or someone you know?

      1. DUTG says:

        Oh no HG, the entire thing was made up just to make a couple of points in relation to Winter’s post:

        1 – Even ‘former victims of narc abuse’ offering fee-based consulting services to assist with recovery may only be after their own bottom line. If so, shame on them.

        2 – It is my responsibility to safeguard my banking and credit card data and not just hand it over to just any person, website, app, etc. If I get conned, shame on them and shame on me.

        Bottom line, we all need to be cautious of scams no matter the source, even you HG. Though we *all know* you are too smart for that.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I understand. Thanks for expanding.

      2. DUTG says:

        HG, are you ever concerned that you could be scammed? For example, someone out here could portray themselves as a naïve, innocent victim, appearing as such for a prolonged period of time. Then, having ‘groomed’ you, they book a consultation with you and secretly record you, then steal your ideas and sell them as their own, or do something worse? How does your kind operate in regards to being scammed? Are you always on alert and that is why you ‘get them’ before they ‘get you’?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No. It follows that in ensuring that my identity is protected that such behaviour is something I remain vigilant about. If someone was so stupid as to try and do this, there would be consequences.

  23. DUTG says:

    Winter, I appreciate your post as it is a good reminder of the caution and skepticism everyone needs to exercise in life and even more so on the web. There are scams everywhere. With apps asking for banking info, dating sites, that friend who wants you to invest in or sell you something. It’s a good reminder to be cautious.

    Also, I think it’s important to recognize when the narc knowledge is keeping our needle stuck in the record’s groove and away from focusing on ourselves. In all of the above, the key is us and our honest self awareness and boundaries. I’ve found this site to be helpful in increasing logical thinking. It’s also nice to be able to interact with others who’ve experienced this kind of abuse because all too often well meaning folks in real life part advice that can actually be more harmful if followed given that they are unaware.

    Balancing narc studies with self focused studies is like the two scales of justice. In the beginning, the narc side is heavily weighted. As you recover and grow, the side weighted with YOU gains as the narc side starts to evaporate. As someone who tends to see the good in people, HG’s writings remind me that not everyone in life is like me.

    1. Catherine says:

      DUTG, I find your concept of a scale of justice balancing between gaining knowledge about the narcissist and understanding yourself to be so true. That’s what healing is all about, when that scale starts to be weighted down with focusing on yourself. What a great metaphor!

      And also, when it comes to the topic discussed here, I think that to come to a point of true healing most of us need to understand what happened to us and I agree that HG has been invaluable to me for those reasons. I am here too of my own free will because this site has helped me get through the dark periods in the aftermath of my relationship and I’m so grateful for that.

  24. E B says:

    Hello Kathleen,

    Although there are low-functioning narcissists (Lessers), there are also some high-functioning ones who are valued members of society (MRN and Greaters). IMO, saying that all narcissists do nothing else but damage and have no value is just as inaccurate as saying that all Empaths are honest, trustworthy people who can do no harm.
    There are many narcissists who do not seem to have any positive qualities and are vindictive, destructive sadists but there are also those who can control their behaviour and contribute to society. There are Empaths who are decent and trustworthy but there are those who will help vindictive, disordered people ruin other people’s lives by participating as a Lieutenant or also those who are marriage/relationship breakers just because they are convinced they are better than other people’s partners.
    As far as I know, electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) is strictly forbidden in some countries.

  25. Dandelion says:

    Thanks to the site we all have the opportunity to become aware of the kind of abuse we’ ve passed through.
    I’m actually following specific psychotherapy, but how could a doctor (even if A GOOD DOCTOR) bless me with this particular perspective if he’s not a NARC?
    We fortunately are free to choose if reding or not. How to us e the below information. If to destroy us or if to heal ourselves.
    The only case we have NO CHOISE is when WE ARE NOT AWARE OF THE ABUSE AND HOW IT WORKS.
    HG i don’t know if this scares you somehow, but it is certain that you are exposed to our view and judgment and eventual attack.
    It’s quite like stopping hiding yourself and working om acceptance yet.
    It needs some kind of courage.
    To me it sounds like:
    The most important point i have to ask myself is:’ Are you guilty to be what you Are?
    I dind’t chose to be an empath.
    So did you?
    I think there is no guilt in that.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you Dandelion. I am not concerned at all about people judging me on evidence. If you dislike me because of the way I treat people based on what I have disclosed on this blog, I understand that and you are entitled to state as such. Thus if someone states,
      “I hate you HG you are a manipulative and nasty bastard.” I understand that, I am manipulative in my private life, I am nasty in my private life and although I was born in wedlock, the word bastard is applicable when used in a slang sense. The statement is a little fuel, is how someone reacts to me based on how I behave.
      However if someone writes,
      “You only do this blog for fuel.” – That is inaccurate and I will correct them. I admit I gain some fuel here, I have always admitted that, but I have consistently explained it is not sufficient in itself for my fuel needs and they are met in my private life. Furthermore, if the issuer of the statement actually took time to read my work about fuel they would realise that it cannot be done purely for fuel because
      (a) The fuel goes from tertiary sources thus it is of low potency;
      (b) It is the written word which is the smallest quantity of fuel provided compared to other methods of communicating fuel;
      (c) I have explained the other reasons why I do this plenty of times.
      and therefore there is clear evidence which supports my explanation and no evidence to support their statement.
      The evidence does not support the statement “You only do the blog for fuel” and thus I will correct that. I correct it because

      (a) It is important for readers to be giving accurate information ; and
      (b) To demonstrate how the inaccurate statement is baseless when looked at logically.

      I have no issue with people expressing their views, their judgement or even attacking me but don’t be inaccurate.

      1. Louise says:

        I have a question, Do you still continue with these ways even though you are in therapy? Or do you still need fuel regardless?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I still require fuel, yes, accordingly I continue to operate in the method which is most effective for me, although adjustments are being looked at as part of the ongoing process.

          1. Louise says:

            Interesting. Will you write an article about characteristics of a narcissistic? I mean the narcissist smile in particular! I don’t know if it is a trait but it is something I have noticed. The only way to describe it is a Cheshire Cat smile, the more I read and educate myself on narcissism, the more sinister this smile seems. Also other little things I have picked up, like the eyes lighting up (which you have already wrote about) and I know this is not of towering importance, but I would love it if you could write something about narcissists body language, as from my observations the way this person carries themselves is unique! Almost reptilian? Another thing I noticed is when this individual is engaging in narcissistic behaviours, the way in which they carry/move their head is slightly odd, it’s hard to describe but there is something weird about it. I could be over thinking and over analysing, do you have any information around these behaviours that could put my mind at rest?

      2. MLA - Clarece says:

        Hi HG,

        I know you don’t care if you are viewed by your victims in your private life as being manipulative and nasty. You are self aware enough to know that you are exactly that and it’s your form of survivor.
        You’ve also answered to me and a couple of other readers over time here on the blog that because of the therapy. You have sometimes applied a different way to handle personal situations. Maybe with more patience, buffering the malice, etc.
        Does it appeal to your sense of power and superiority to master overcoming the need for negative fuel and being malicious and deceitful?
        At the end of the day, who wants to be remembered for being a cruel, heartless, soul sucking monster? It will overshadow any legacy.
        Doesn’t look like Harvey Weinstein or Kevin Spacey are going to have an illustrious legacy with their past coming out to haunt them, for example.

      3. Sniglet says:

        You were born in wedlock, but were you conceived on wedlock? Hmmm?

        1. HG Tudor says:


          1. K says:

            I have a fond memory of HG’s narrative about how “Little HG was created”. And it was in wedlock.

      4. narc affair says:

        Hi HG…thats great youre looking at possible modifications to how you operate. I wont say i agree with how narcs treat people but i can say i do understand how its difficult to change something you feel is working or are very attached to. It takes courage and isnt easy. I can relate to this. When youve been a certain way all your life and you feel its served you well and protected you the motivation to change is not there. The lack of empathy is the game changer and narcs dont seem to have this which is the motivator in itself. Why would you treat people better when you dont care what happens to them?
        I think with therapy they need to focus kn building empathy in narcissists. Once there is empathy there will be motivation to change.

  26. Louise says:


    It wasn’t with knives
    My heart he tore
    When he bought me to deaths door.

    It wasn’t his hands
    That had me slain-
    But he had killed me
    All the same

    Cold and callous
    With no remorse,
    He turned me into
    A walking corpse.

    And I am imprisoned
    In this pain,
    While he without
    The slightest blame-
    Free to do it
    Over again.

    – Lang Leav

  27. Kate says:

    HG, I have a question. If the traits of an empathic person are seen by a narcissist as irritating, that this person is weak and pathetic, then why target an empathic person?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Because the empathic person is the best person for us to target in terms of those traits fulfilling the prime aims. Just because we need what the empath provides best, doesn’t mean we have to like it, indeed, our reliance on those needs from someone who is regarded as inferior from our perspective is a source of irritation and annoyance to us.

      1. Nuit Étoilée says:


        Once again – Ouch. You really don’t pull any punches, do you?

        Damnit. Between this & feeling like prey, it really isn’t actually fun being considered a target…

        Back to those benefits – is there anything in this for the empath??

        1. HG Tudor says:

          In what context?

        2. K says:

          Nuit Étoilée
          If you can, try to remove the emotion. Pretend you are in a war, your opponent/enemy is the narcissist and you need to formulate a battle plan. In order to win, you need to think, eat, drink, smoke and fuck like the enemy. Become the predator; not the prey. The doer; not the done to. Also, look at it this way, if HG is around other narcissists, they think he is inferior, too. It is the dynamic.

        3. K says:

          Excellent, Nuit Étoilée! Keep laughing, I highly recommend it as part of your recovery-from-narc-abuse program. I love a bit of drama and hyperbole; it makes life more amusing. Your battle plan could simply be No Contact and that is the best battle plan there is, I think.

          – *polishing my nails on my chest I already do; *especially the fuck part 😉 Ha!! Ha ha ha… Thanks for the laugh.

          Good question: Who is the seducer? “A man chases a girl until she catches him” ~ Irving Berlin

      2. Nina says:

        It’s a symbiotIc relationship. Who is to say we are inferior? I’ve always felt equal in Intelligence to all the narcs in my life!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Indeed it is, but our need for superiority means our perspective deems you as inferior to us.

      3. Nuit Étoilée says:

        Hg, in a relationship one-on-one w a narc. According to your narcissistic friendship article – that’s not exactly an endorsement even as a friend, and all the rest of your site warns against an intimate ensnarement.. so.. is there ever a benefit to a relationship w a narc for the empath?

        Nina, feel free to help me see the symbiotic relationship – I’m open. I know in some cases codependents can feel validated through the narc, but for “normal” empaths.. the effects seem to be entirely negative – eg – the Devil’s Toolkit of manipulation and machinations.. doesn’t seem to leave anything positive in an interaction with a narc…

        Please tell me I’m wrong..

      4. Kate says:

        How interesting. I go out of my way to avoid people that I feel are irritating / annoying and aggravating because it is harmful to me and my wellbeing. That outweighs whatever they might have to offer.

      5. SarcNarc says:

        HG, Obviously, I’m not your therapist but what do you think about looking at this phenomenon in terms of “projection”?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Which phenomenon are you referring to please SarcNarc?

      6. SarcNarc says:

        Excuse the confusion, HG, I meant to ask about your thoughts on projection in regards to what you stated here.
        My previous comment went below probably because I didn’t refresh the page before writing.

      7. Nuit Étoilée says:

        “In order to win, you need to think, eat, drink, smoke and fuck like the enemy. Become the predator; not the prey.”

        I love the way you make me blast out laughing!

        Um.. about that bit of golden advice – *polishing my nails on my chest I already do; *especially the fuck part 😉 Ha!!

        That does become a question – who’s seducing who? 😉

        nooooo, I am under no illusions = I don’t need to win. I am already happy, and that’s more than any narc will ever be.. (although the empath in me is sad at this..) **bisous**

    2. DUTG says:

      I never would have imagined in starting my day today that Winter’s post and all of the commentary by all including HG would have produced so much tying up of the disjointed loose ends for me. I see it now! Our kind are despised by HG’s kind because we continue to make ourselves vulnerable despite the abuse we’ve suffered in life. HG’s kind, of which there are men I have truly loved, switched that vulnerability off years ago. I can’t blame them. I think my ex narc husband was sexually abused as a child. He never said so, but when you live with someone, and they wake up in the middle of the night protecting their genitals with their hands and screaming out, “Who’s there?”, after you stayed up later than them to finish a movie in the other room and are now crawling into bed, one can only guess. I never suffered such abuse but can only imagine how that would teach someone to never, EVER trust someone close to you again. Even if the abuse by someone close was ‘only’ psychological, would you not train yourself to never be vulnerable to that again? That’s why we are despised. We keep trusting and hoping. They shut it off. We are ‘inferior’ because we keep going back into the fire, seeing the good in the person and ‘hoping’ for a different outcome. That is the part of the narc’s appeal to me. They get it right from the get-go, sizing up someone immediately, and don’t their waste time. They target us/invest in us because they are hoping that because of our empathic qualities, we will hang on for the ride and keep doing this over and over again WITH THEM because we’ve done it all of our lives. However, whereas we are used to withstanding the devaluation because of OUR ‘training’ and the way we reacted to it by staying ‘in the game no matter what’ (because as children, we knew we had to in order to survive), they start becoming increasingly aware of our disappointment in them (for even the slightest, silliest of reasons) while at the same time disgusted by our not getting out immediately. Their defenses go into ‘uber’ mode, triggering them to build up fuel elsewhere because they sense ‘Mommy is about to reject me’ while at the same time disgusted because we are staying in the game as a loyal partner no matter what, something they’ve built themselves to never do.

      This is not a post to encourage you to stay with your narc by any means. HG is unique in that not many of his kind get treatment, and not many of his kind are even aware of themselves and why they do as they do. Remember it was either Sigmund or Freud who got mauled by his tiger, or was it his lion? Can’t remember specifics at this time. Must Google. Anyway, wow! What a day! I think both lions and tigers are magnificent beasts, from afar. So is HG whom I like and am grateful for.

      1. DUTG says:

        Just a final thought. Somewhere in the commentaries on some post out here someone asked HG if he thought the inner child could ever be healed. He said no. I had previously held a longstanding belief that I had healed my inner child. HG saying no gave me pause to reflect. Now I can say I agree with HG. My inner child will never be healed. Instead, I have learned with therapy and distance from my dysfunctional upbringing by parents battling their own inherited dysfunction/coping skills to be the proper parent to that inner child. Maybe HG is going through the same journey. This is some deep shit! Hugs to all on this journey.

      2. Narc Angel says:

        Are you referring to the flaming Vegas duo of Zigfried and Roy? Or was the Neurologist and co-founder of Psychology mauled by his tiger also? Inquiring minds would like to know.

  28. JenniferJ says:

    I’ve thought about this too Kathleen, and without getting too philosophical, I have a loose theory that nature must have made narcissists and empaths for a reason.

    Maybe it’s because they provide variety to the total pool of human “types”, and variety in nature is good because it promotes greater rates of survival and adaptability.

    Also, when narcissists and empaths have children together, their offspring may be more balanced (i.e. “normal”) in terms of where they fit in the narc-empath spectrum. Nature always evolves towards greater balance and better survival in the long run.

    I think narcissism is becoming better understood and more widely discussed, so maybe greater knowledge will help eventually to create better human experiences and less rampant destructive narcissism. We can hope anyway.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      There is force in this proposition Jennifer. I regard both as having evolved as mechanisms that enables either party the greatest prospect of thriving and functioning (albeit in different ways) based on the circumstances and situations that have arisen.

    2. Narc Angel says:

      I subscribe to your theory. Thus my belief that they have a place and that we can learn to work with and around each other with less grief and damage, instead of each side trying to have it all their way which is unrealistic and narcissistic on both sides.

    3. DUTG says:

      Jennifer, am thinking about what both you and HG are saying and applying it to nature and survival of the fittest in an exaggerated way in my head. Great post!

  29. Karma says:

    Winter. When I read your comment I have to say that I happy for you. You have clearly never been involved with a narcissist .. good for you. For us that lived through the pain of the narcissistic cycle this is a safe haven. After spending a fortune on therapy, been to rehab and almost committed suicide, it was a blessing to find answers to my nightmare.
    As far as I know HG have not groomed anyone nor stepped out of his professional role. After three audio consultations with him I can assure you that he gave more insight than anyone can imagine. During those hours on the phone I can with 100% truth tell you that there was no fuel giving session. On the contrary he showed so much empathy to my situation and I felt that he truly wanted me to survive and succeed. (sorry HG but you did). Again Winter.. I’m happy for you that you clearly never encountered a Narcissist ..because if you had… you would never have posted that comment in the first place.

    If you don’t like what HG is doing for us… simply don’t visit this site again.

  30. Kathleen says:

    On target. I probably went through all those thoughts at some point. What is the end game for the narcissist, how can they not see that being fired from jobs over 8 times in 30 years isn’t ‘normal’ ?
    Has anyone ever attempted hypnosis or electronic shock therapy on narcissists to try and jolt their brain? Apologies HG but I just don’t see any value to the Narcissist in society. Nothing but damage. The contributions are negated by their destruction and the fallout of it. It’s so damn confoundIng!

  31. Empress1 says:

    Absolutely…. plus of course finally having to accept the ‘magic’ was not real– you did not have your ‘fairytale romance’—- accepting that ‘hope’ is not going to happen, not with this person!

    1. Julie P says:

      Be your own magical hero Empress1 I say, there is no fairytale with any person…

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Julie, your full name is being used in your profile. I have deleted it so far. If this is not a concern for you, fair enough, if it is, perhaps you would amend it to save me having to do so. Thank you.

      2. Empress1 says:

        Julie, I understand you are very angry. What I do not understand is why you wish to alienate everyone here, when we are all here to understand our relationship with a narc and heal ourselves with help from HG and the others. You have taken hits at many others here and now me— why? I wish I could block people on these posts— your anger is not helping anyone.

      3. Sniglet says:

        HG, you can change profile names of readers? I don’t know you could do that in WordPress.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes, I only do so when I see that somebody has used their real full name (and there usually follows another comment and/or e-mail asking me to delete the post because they then realise they have used their name) otherwise I leave them as they are.

      4. jenny says:

        Could you please check i have not used my full name as i think i may have on my first post. Thank you

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Checked and amended.

  32. Winter says:

    It appears to me that you hide your true intentions behind the guise that you are here to help those who have been or currently are victims of “your kind.” You pretend that you are here to educate those blinded by the charm of narcissist and that you will lead them to the promise land as only you a self-proclaimed narcissist can. Your shtick is laughable. This so called treatment you have been prescribed is counterintuitive as all you are doing is providing yourself with fuel sources that did not exist before. In addition you are grooming vulnerable individuals so you can prey on them. Is your ego strength so low that you have to feign support for victims to get your fill? You are despicable.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. Nowhere have I ever stated that I do this purely to help people.
      2. I am providing education. There is no pretence about it.
      3. I have never stated I will lead them to the promised land. I explain I provide the information and tools, the individuals have to decide to apply them. If they do not, that is their issue, not mine, something I have made repeatedly clear to people.
      4. Once again you make the elementary error of assuming this is done for fuel. It is not and I have again explained why that is so and if you bothered to actually consider the categorisation of my readers you will realise how that they are not here to provide fuel. I have also always admitted I do receive fuel from readers but that the fuel is not of the potency or amount that compares with what I obtain in my private life and therefore is not required.
      5. There is no grooming. Perhaps you might provide some evidence that vulnerable individuals have been preyed on? You will not be able to because there is none. There is no need to do this and moreover it is contrary to the purpose and aims of this blog.

      Of course, feel free to jump to inaccurate conclusions without actually taking the time to read and understand the operation of this place and its dynamic, if you actually did so, you would realise your comments are baseless.
      If you dislike me and my kind because of what we are, fine, I understand that, but your inaccuracies formed without evidence and with such immediacy demonstrates only prejudice and narrow-mindedness.

      1. Bubbles🍾 says:

        Dear Mr Tudor,
        Is Winter hurting, in pain and reacting from their own experience?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Highly likely.

    2. Aurora says:

      Hey Winter, I understand your frustration, I thought a similar thing about HG but I’ve realized his posts have helped me substantially. Have you been reading around for a while or did you just find the site?

      HG’s posts help me strengthen my resolve for no contact. I read his posts and remember what a damaging individual narcissists/Cluster B personality types are and what goes through their heads. HG as far as I know is actually getting treatment and doing therapy….we should try to commend him (without giving excess fuel lol) and not insult him.

      Let’s say for the sake of argument he was getting fuel as well. What harm does it do that he is when he is providing so much value to readers and helping thousands of readers step away from destruction and abuse and into freedom?

      1. jenny says:

        Ditto….well said Aurora

    3. Narc Angel says:


      I thank you for, and appreciate your concern, but there are a few things you should know because it appears you have not been here long enough to get a lay of the land.

      I am here of my own free will. I come and go as I please. The information is provided with the understanding that I can pick and choose what if any is helpful and/or applicable to me. There are people here from all walks of life and we are more intelligent than you apparently give us credit for. Intelligent enough to accept information that has been the most accurate to our experiences and more validating than we have found amongst countless other avenues out there, and despite the source and whatever intentions he may or may not have or you perceive them to be.

    4. Julie P says:

      Winter, I get you, as sometimes I feel that some people on here get carried away with the level of attention they receive, you read it in comments and the Oohhh HG you’re brilliant etc like there is a cult forming and or people jumping to defend a person who really isn’t a kind compassionate person and he admits it. HG could be doing all those things listed, his kind also lie, manipulate, triangulate and deny and destroy amongst a whole lotta other things, so whether he is we just have to gather the evidence. Just cos he says no he doesn’t do any of it, doesn’t mean its true, however I don’t believe you can groom a person in this, most people here a fighting against people they already know.
      He is providing a different view from whats out there and his view and opinion is valuable. I don’t think the DSM has it covered as yet. There is also Sam Vaknin who is a NPD Sociopath with a high level of self awareness, he fathered alot of the terminology of covert and overt Narc etc and if HG wants to do the same and create a narcissistic legacy of education, then there is a market for it. Though he is creating an evil vs good theme with narcs and empaths, this sometimes isn’t the case… unless you are a complete psychopath have no regard for human life, you can’t say he (HG) is completely evil, though his logo doesnt help this vision… You came out swinging, good for you. Healthy cynicism is good.
      I am sure he has been called despicable before.
      HG comment as you see fit…

      1. HG Tudor says:

        The majority of those who read and contribute here are intelligent, constructive and know what I am. They express their gratitude, some effusively, because finally they have gained answers and understanding. People respond in different ways and indeed others may find some people’s responses over the top. It also, however, provides further useful insight into the behaviour and minds of those who entangle with our kind through the various responses and reactions – be they courteous, flirtatious, furious, judgmental and so forth. All part of the learning and the rich experience. My readers are not prohibited from defending me, just because I am what I am – they will not say, “Leave him alone he is a good person” because they know that is not the case but they will state “He has helped me, I never want to meet him but I am grateful for his information” or “I do not like what he does, but he is the only one who has given me clarity and for that I acknowledge his contribution” and where they see attacks based on misunderstanding or a lack of foundation, they will state as such. Every so often a person will arrive at the blog, read a small fraction of the work here and possibly a small fraction of the comments and jump to conclusions, whereas if the took the time to absorb the material and the interaction they would find their initial accusations groundless.

        Being called despicable does not concern me but at least those using it should call it me based on evidence rather than inaccuracy.

        You are correct that just because I say it, does not mean in itself that it is true, but by reading what is here, you will see that it is true.

        Healthy cynicism is fine. Inaccurate allegations are not.

        I appreciate that you find my work valuable.

      2. DUTG says:

        I also like the humor/humour aspect in the commentary, the play on terms, the creative use of concepts (like the shows on the All Narc Network). I find myself laughing out loud as it lightens up the mood after an intense reading. I also do not think of HG’s writing as being for an advanced math degree where he must provide footnotes and empirical evidence. I think of it more as a creative writing class for all of us. Sometimes vivid, dramatic or comical writings can really emphasize a point, for me anyway.

    5. Sniglet says:

      If you have noticed Winter’s notice you will have noticed that Winter’s notice is not worth noticing.

      1. Narc Angel says:

        I have noticed that Winter is cold.

      2. K says:

        Ha ha ha ….

    6. JenniferJ says:

      Hi Winter,

      The great thing about this blog is that readers are free to express their opinions and thoughts in an open-minded yet respectful environment, and your thoughts are also welcome, as are everyone else’s.

      I’m not sure where your anger at HG Tudor and your accusations actually come from. Personally, I have watched many YouTube videos and have read the blogs of other narcissists who claim they want to help people. While their intentions may be good, their “help” is often scant or dubious.

      I have never felt that way about HG Tudor. His posts are richly informative, well-written and actually very relatable regarding the reality of what a narcissist is and does. Most readers who have been through the experience aren’t poor helpless, gullible victims, but mature and intelligent people who are discerning enough to see that HG Tudor offers very valuable advice that actually helps. For me, it has been invaluable.

      Please do not be concerned that he is grooming or preying on anyone. He is actually providing very insightful information to “vulnerable individuals”, … more insightful than many other so-called experts on the subject.

    7. E B says:

      Hello Winter,
      I am sorry you have the wrong perception of him. Sharing his knowledge is part of his treatment. You can read the ‘About’ section to learn more about him and the reasons why he is writing this blog and books.

      1. Empress1 says:

        WOW! Thank you ladies, my first knee jerk reaction was defend HG as well– then I thought he does not require my help and I will lay low and ‘allow’ him to take care of himself as he is most capable. However, from me, thank you for standing for him…. ( the rest of my thoughts shall remain private)

    8. Restored Heart says:


      Can I ask you how do you see what HG is doing as counterintuitive? To me that does not make sense. Is not expression & confession of knowledge, motives, experiences & thoughts something frequently prescribed as treatment by professionals as cathartic & self reflective therefore therapeutic? Does not confession of ‘secrets’ help to remove its stronghold & power over a person therefore enable enlightenment, awareness, improvement & possible healing?

      And as Narc Angel said, ‘I am here of my own free will’ & ‘come & go as I please’. For me, I see the blog as symbiotic. No grooming involved & certainly no feigning of support. If HG did that, the blog would fail but the number of hits speak for themselves. Is it not normal human behaviour that we go to the person with the knowledge to learn on any given topic? How is this different? Do not companies go to hackers in order to learn how to improve security?

      And the ONLY person leading ME to The Promised Land is my Good Lord & Saviour Jesus Christ.

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