The Immediate Aftermath of Disengagement
You have been dis-engaged from. The all too inevitable entanglement with our kind. Whether we disappeared without a word, told you we needed space for ourselves or hurled insults at you as to why we hated you and wanted you to drop dead, the fact remains you have been dis-engaged from. Your emotions are raw as this event was only a couple of weeks ago.
To exacerbate this unpleasant, bewildering and upsetting situation you know that we have a new love interest. With what seemed to you to be unnatural haste, we have been seen with a new lady on our arm, your stalking of our Facebook profile reveals we have a new boyfriend from the plethora of loved-up comments and repeated pictures of us arm in arm, grinning out at you as if we are revelling in your misery. You have not yet ascertained that as we devalued you, your replacement was being seduced and to all intents and purposes we appear to have dumped you and secured another partner in the blink of an eye. How could we do this? After all the things we said to you and all the deep and unwavering love that you have showed us, how could we be so uncaring, so nasty, such a downright bastard?
Your head is a whirlwind of questions? Why did he end things? Why did she do it that way? Who is the new person? What if they are happy together forever? What did you do wrong? What about sorting out those joint financial commitments? Could you have done something differently? Is there a chance of working things out? How can someone change like that? These questions and hundreds more torment you and it becomes unbearable. You need to talk to us. You alternate between hurt and angry, shifting between wanting to plead with us for another chance and then wanting to kick us in the balls. Most of all however, you want answers.
What then will happen if you decide to approach us during the aftermath? What reaction will you be met with if you send a message asking for answers to your questions or if you turn up somewhere to meet us in person for the purpose of obtaining some explanations? Naturally, at this juncture, undoubtedly unaware of who you have been entangled with, you do not know that you will not be given those answers. In part this is because there are no answers to give – why should we deign to answer you and do something that you want? Furthermore, many times we just do not have an answer because of the different perspective from which we operate. Add to that we will purposefully avoid giving you answers in order to keep you primed for a later hoover, to draw fuel from you and to frustrate you also.
As you may imagine, the reaction of our kind to being contacted during the initial aftermath of the dis-engagement will vary dependent on the school of narcissist that you have been dealing with. Before that is addressed, you should be aware of our general mind set at this time. You failed us. You may not have done anything wrong from your perspective but we regard you as having failed us and this led to our fuel needs being sought elsewhere and once they were secured, you were dis-engagement from. This is the most common reason for being discarded; we found a new primary source and once we were satisfied that this person was embedded, then we tossed you to one side. There are other reasons why you are discarded (see 5 Reasons We Discard You ) but the fact we have a new primary source embedded is the most common one.
When that happens we are infatuated with the new primary source. You are effectively forgotten about. You were once idealised, then you were demonised and now it is as if you do not exist because we have someone new and exciting to focus on. We do not want anything spoiling this golden period least of all the last appliance which failed us and malfunctioned and had to be placed on the scrap heap. Accordingly, if you make an appearance in some way by entering a sphere of influence (The Spheres of Influence) then our reaction will be based on you being persona non grata and if you persist our view of you is one of antipathy, dislike and you are painted black.
Turning to the three schools of narcissism for their nuanced response to your appearance.
The Lesser
There is a good chance that the Lesser will have blocked you from social media and contacting him as part of him considering you effectively dead to him. If he has not done so and you send a message it will be ignored. He has no interest in drawing fuel from you at this point, someone else is servicing his fuel needs and you are just an irritant. If you persist in ringing or sending messages you can expect the following responses:-
“Stop ringing me I hate you.”
“Stop sending me messages, I don’t want anything to do with you.”
“Fuck off.”
“Keep contacting me and I will come down there and give you a kicking.”
The message is clear; you are unwelcome and the Lesser Narcissist wants nothing to do with you.
If you see the Lesser Narcissist and try to talk to him, he will evade you, tell you where to go and make a hasty retreat. He is not interested in you and if you try to stop him you can expect a savage verbal assault or even a physical assault as he wants you to leave him alone so he can concentrate on his new primary source. He has nothing to discuss with you, has no interest in fuel from you at this point and would prefer you to be dead.
The Mid-Ranger
If you are attempting to contact the Mid-Ranger through messages and telephoning you will also be ignored initially. If you persist in trying to make contact with him or her for the purposes of getting some answers, you can expect the following responses:-
“Leave me alone, I have nothing to say to you.”
“Stop stalking me.”
“Keep this up and I am informing the police.”
“Just stop, it is over, you have to accept it.”
The paranoia of the Mid-Ranger will mean that he is concerned you will wreck things with his new primary source by telling lies (the truth) about him. Whilst you’re contacting him, he will be showing the new primary source that you are pestering him to accord with the smearing you will have already received. This smearing will continue as you are painted as an obsessive who will not let go, a stalker with mental health issues and a bunny boiler who cannot accept the relationship is over. The new primary source, the façade, the coterie and the Lieutenants will all be told about this ongoing behaviour (suitably embellished) so you are regarded as crazy and out of order. The Mid-Ranger thus preserves the façade and creates a toxic environment so if you do manage to see him or her face to face, you will not be believed and seen as trouble maker.
If an in person encounter takes place, you can expect the Mid-Ranger to want to get the hell out of there. He is preoccupied with the new primary source, he does not want you spoiling that arrangement and wants you to disappear. Lacking the aggression of the Lesser, he will wheel out Lieutenants to make you go away, threaten the use of law enforcement and appeal to others to see exactly why he needed to get rid of you in the first place. He also does not want fuel from you, he just wants you to clear off and leave him to get on with his new play thing unhindered.
The Greater
It is the Greater who welcomes you foolishly getting in touch during his new golden period with the replacement primary source. Suitably confident of his abilities and this new entranced primary source, if you begin to message him, he will seize on this chance to triangulate you with the new primary source, to punish you for failing him and to manipulate you further.
Your text messages and calls will be met with a friendly and amenable response. All the while, the Greater, already having smeared you left, right and centre, will be revelling in you trying to broker a meet-up in order to talk. He will be telling the façade and coterie that he feels sorry for you, that he needs to humour you so you don’t do anything crazy and thus paints himself as the good guy to all those watching. His responses will be along the lines of:-
“Good to hear from you, I hope you are well, what do you want to talk about?”
(What he really means is, good to hear from you because I can manipulate you, I know you aren’t well but what do I care, make me feel special by telling me what you want to talk about.)
“Well, yes we can meet-up but you do know I am with someone else now don’t you, so don’t get any ideas okay?”
“I don’t really see what there is to talk about, but I am willing to listen, I am reasonable.”
“Yes okay we can meet up if it will help you deal with what has happened.”
This apparent caring attitude and pleasantness is all fake. You are being strung along.
When you do meet the Greater, you can expect the new primary source to be there to add to your humiliation as the Greater looks lovingly at her, says good things about her and then when she goes to get a drink, the Greater will lean across the table and snarl at you for having the audacity to get in touch.
If the new primary source is not brought along, the Greater will toy with you, like a cat with a mouse. Letting you speak, enjoying the fuel as you plead, cry and become angry with him or her. He will feign dismay at your behaviour whilst inside he is laughing at you, pleased with this further boost of fuel, supremely confident that you cannot wreck his new golden period because you have been smeared and character assassinated to a figurative death. Nobody is going to believe you and therefore he is not going to pass up the chance to draw fuel from you, both positive and negative once again. He of the three is the one who is content to respond and meet with you, not that it will get you anywhere at all.
Tempting as it is to want to contact the narcissist when you have been dis-engaged from and he is in a new golden period, you will get nowhere. He has someone new now and wants to focus on her. You are an irritant, an annoyance, a reminder of failure or in the case of the Greater something to toy with further for the purpose of gaining fuel. Instead, use the period whilst the narcissist is distracted with his new plaything to build your defences, gain understanding and prepare for the hoovers which will be following down the line.
68 thoughts on “The Immediate Aftermath of Disengagement”
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Hi HG, does a narc miss you or think about you once they’ve discarded and unleashed their fury upon you? Ive been discarded & painted JET black, smeared etc, etc. During our courtship and marriage my ex was very controlling and “protective” of my time (i eventually disconnected from most of my friends and family members). He feigned jealousy when it came to other men (accusing me of having crushes on his brothers or colleagues After spending time with them in social settings). When he discarded me he made a point of saying he didn’t care who or what I did… so why is he asking people whether or not I am seeing someone? A “Friend“ of ours said that she thinks he must miss me Because I was so kind and loving yet his new IPPS is abrasive and demanding. 🙄Is it possible That a midranger could actually miss a former IPPS even though they have done everything to destroy that person? If so what kinds of things do they miss? Certainly not the person themselves but what fuel they provided…He is remarried now and in the golden period with his new wife(Who is also his ex-wife🙄).
These are matters best addressed through consultation given the detail required in answering them.
Does the narcissist ever give you “reasons”, (that are all your fault of course), for the disenagagement or do they usually just do it without explanation? And will they warn you they are going to block you if you continue or do they just do that without warning too? I was given bogus reasons and warned I would be blocked if I said one more thing he didnt like, which of course I did. Just wondering….
Sometimes reasons are given in order to provoke for the purposes of gaining fuel, but often you find out about disengagement by finding you are blocked or the narcissist has been seen with a new person or is parading them on social media as the girlfriend etc.
I just received an email today after not hearing from narc ex for a month. He is blocked on every channel except my email that reroutes to the junk folder. I saw it as I was deleting and made the mistake of reading it. I’m stunned. I would love to give you all the history and hear your take on the email. Is that allowed in comments here?
Feel free to articulate the history but if you want my take on it the appropriate forum is a consultation.
Ok so I’ve got a VRO on my narcassist. Now i still have the house as is with all his stuff in it and his dog. Now he’s running around living with other women from house to house as he has no where to live. These women are all secrets as he does not want me to find out about. I’m not dumb. Now am I still his primary source he will come home to once the order is over ? These women are just being used for fuel and a roof over his head. I’m totally ready for the Hoover once the restraining order is over cause i know it’s coming.
You may well be but I would need more information about the dynamic and history and this is a matter best suited to consultation.
What I’d give to know all of this years ago, though I suppose there’s some reason stewing in the haze of uncertainty served its purpose. Thank you for the enlightenment, HG.
It can be kind of gratifying to be discarded when you’re aware of what’s actually happening, if you can disconnect from the emotional rigamarole of it all. Just being aware of where in this dizzying cycle you’re at can be enough to re-orient yourself, so long as you don’t show your hand to your narc. I’m a few days post-discard (the third between my parasitic former paramour and I) at the moment, and while there’s definitely an aspect of “you callous bastard/remorseless fuckwit void of any vague semblance of a conscience, what the actual fuck wriggled into your demented brain and how do you not even know it’s there, you self-oblivious overgrown child,” having some room to breathe without the full weight of him is a relief. Understanding how he functions, finally, removes some of the nagging impulse to keep trying to seek answers he cant or won’t give. Even though he’ll make himself a blip on my radar again (and again and again, fucking hell, I thought I didn’t know when to quit) eventually, knowing which buttons to passively push to activate his “whelp the bullshit isn’t working, I’m out (for now), later haterbitch” reaction is a welcome shift in this precarious balance of power. I mean, I’d rather not have to analyze every interaction I share with another person, but with this kind of manipulation mindlessly going along for the ride is reckless and self-destructive. Detach and observe while suspending an emotional impulse, its not as if they were really attached to you anyhow, just what sustenance you can give them. Like leeches only without the medicinal benefit… maybe bloodletting is a more apt analogy. Even leeches need to eat, really. Just eat someone else, please, I like my blood where it is.
Of course, I’m not going to say anything to the effect of this to him. Nah, a dispassionate “cool, do the thing” is more effective repellent. Hence seeking solace/commiseration with other folks who’ve finally stumbled into awareness, here in the peanut gallery. Missing an illusion is a bizarre kind of mindfuck, but at least I’m not the only one covering my ear-holes.
Wolvesinwalden, I agree that knowing the reasons for silent treatments, punishments and disengagement makes it all so much easier. It’s like I’ve been trying to find a answer to a very complicated puzzle for years but now the answer is so clear. Which makes me wonder why we continue to go back and interact knowing all we know? I have no respect for the person he is. None at all! I’m pretty sure i dont even like him. So what the hell am I doing? I’ll go back when I want to but I don’t know why….this is a new puzzle that I’m trying to figure out. All I can think is that maybe my pride has been wounded and I need to know that I didn’t waste all those years of my life on something so meaningless.
I feel the same way. I’d think it’s a symptom of emotional thinking, holding on to hope despite (or in spite of, if you’re extra super duper stubborn) logically understanding what’s going on. Being so devoted to fairness and treating others how you want to be treated makes sense to us, holding on to that ideal is second nature, but it’s in stark contrast to the narcissist’s nature. Nothing will change, they don’t feel a need to adapt their behavior to something so unimportant as following a healthy social construct for mutual interaction. What does our concept of health or fairness matter, especially when they can’t gain anything tangible from it? Satisfaction from making someone else feel (good and/or bad) tastes different to them, if that makes sense. Both sides view the other as taste tripping, both see the other as removed from their own reality, and which reality is going to seem more appealing to the narcissist but their own?
I think (for myself, not necessarily for anyone else, I don’t want to presume to know how someone else feels about the mistakes they’ve made) I’m probably afraid to confront the notion of there being some flaw in my perception of righteousness that led us to feel affection for someone capable of showing so much cruelty without remorse. It feels like I’ve made some grandiose error in judgement, which I’m sure is true on some level, but in the face of such relentless manipulation it’d be difficult for anyone to maintain absolute clarity at all times. How exactly this all reflects back on you, coming to terms with the role you’ve played in this madness, and forgiving yourself for whatever you’ve done to enable your narcissist and feed into their pathological need to bounce your perception between extremes seems vitally important. Not an easy task by any measure, but healing tends to require some measure of discomfort.
If you’ve learnt something, you haven’t wasted all those years of your life on something meaningless. Full disclosure, I realize most of the folks here have probably spent more time with their narc than I did, and are probably a fair bit older and more experienced than my little millennial self, so take my thoughts with a healthy dose of salt. I only spent 3 1/2 years of my life with him, a couple years after high school for both of us, and he was my first love, so it’s not like I can speak from ample experience or from the perspective of someone whose been married to their’s or built a life with them. You can’t help them, they don’t want help and forcing the issue isn’t going to end well for either of you, but you can help yourself. Finding a sense of solace when you’re faced with a paradox, laughing at the impossibility of figuring out where a circle begins and ends instead of driving yourself nuts with a magnifying glass to figure out where the beginning/end might be seems less damaging in the long run. Essentially, we’re all just aimlessly spinning on a chunk of rock in the vast vacuum of space and we’re all born to die, the only true absolute is that there are no absolutes and everything we experience is only a matter of perception, so modifying our perspective to cater to having a worthwhile experience in your day-to-day life seems like our best course of action. If you’re learning from your experience and applying that knowledge to your interactions with this person (and reflecting on how you are impacted by your own actions and choices, rather than placing blame and refusing accountability on your own behalf because you’ve been hurt so deeply), the wounds you’ve sustained can mend. If you’re picking the scab open, it’ll never heal, and will be more susceptible to infection. I’m not saying you should stop trying to figure out this puzzle, I’m saying it isn’t healthy to invest your ego in whether or not you can figure out which pieces go where. Simply said, the value is in the perspective of experience, not placing utmost importance on reaching the destination. These relationships are bound to end only with death, so there’s a very real possibility that you’ll never truly be able to solve your situation entirely. That’s okay. We’re not supposed to know everything, just our pitifully minuscule human experience. Omnipotence isn’t a feature of humanity. We’ve assigned that to gods, and the universe, to the freaky nebulous concepts we can’t prove, but do need to feel an illusion of security.
…I have a feeling this all sounded more motivating in my head than it comes across on the screen. Radical nihilism kind of makes me happy, in a way, but I realize this is not a universal perspective. I’m sorry if this all sounds depressing or is not what you may have expected me to say, I do not mean to cause any harm by being so bleak. There’s some glory, there, I think. Finding whatever silver lining might exist is difficult when that silver lining is a dull grey that only glimmers at a specific angle in specific lighting. It’s rough around the edges, frayed and threadbare, but it is there still. Just not exactly recognizable, in the realm of what a shiny and elegant silver lining is expected to look like.
Wolvesinwalden
I didnt find that depressing but rather a breath of fresh air.
“Healing tends to require some measure of discomfort”
On the money.
I like your style WIW!
Mercy
Isnt that also a symptom of addiction? Going back to what you know even though you know its bad for you, and that when you wake up tomorrow nothing will have been solved, but you felt better in the moment and thats as far as you could see at the time?
It is.
Wolvesinwalden and NarcAngel
Sorry for the late response. Wolves I didn’t think your reply was depressing at all. It gave me a lot to think about. I’ve moved past the denial, the why’s and the “how could he”s and just accepted that he is what he is and no amount of analysis on my part is going to find the secret formula to change what is. This forces me to analyze myself which I’ve found is much more complicated than I had expected. Many times Ive seen other readers comment about what theyve learned in their relationship. That’s not something I’ve thought too deeply about and maybe it’s fear that’s holding me back. You mentioned it again in your response so that’s what I’ve been asking myself these last few days. What did I learn from this?….I’m only coming up with negative answers. I’ve learned about a level of cruelty that I’ve never been exposed to before. As a result of that exposure I’ve realized I’m capable of returning that cruelty…I know there’s more and I know I can take something good about me from this. I just don’t see it yet but I will get there
NarcAngel – yes going back is definitely an addiction. I’m not addicted to the crumbs of compliments he gives or the quest of the golden period. I’m not addicted to the abuse either. I know everything he does serves his purpose. It’s the game that I’m addicted to. The problem is that he knows I know too much and I’ve lost my edge. He had his secerets but my knowledge of who he is was my secret. I’ve been able to have a level of control with that knowledge and it has given me a sense of power. I no longer give out fuel that leaves me feeling pathetic. The fuel I give is calculated and intentional to get a reaction I want. But yes, an addiction all the same.
Love this post wolvesinwalden. “Leeches without the medicinal benefit” ha ha!
Your last paragraph could be on the brochure for the mental-health rehab programme offered here at Tudor Mansions.
Lol! Tudor Mansions, protecting ear holes one at a time!!
I love your posts WIW! Your spunkiness is palpable.
MB – You’re too sweet, I appreciate the love. I’m kind of incapable of restraining the spunkiness, for better or worse. More often than not, it gets me into trouble.
I hate to be a downer but the initial relief felt from becomeing aware of what they are is short lived. The process of recovery is a long one especially depending on the length of the relationship. It’s great when you find out omg this is what is wrong with him!!! But it is a much longer process to really accept it. It just takes tine and any contact during the process will set you back.
Correct. This is because your emotional thinking wants to cling to the addiction and stir up your emotions and feelings about the relationship, feelings which are understandable but ultimately only going to lead you back to an abuser. Cool hard logic is required to beat down the emotional thinking, time is required to process away the emotional responses.
Lori
Very true. Great point.
Well I hated to be a downer or negative Nelly about this but it’s just reality. I gotta tell ya this is the part that is the real struggle for a lot of us being fully aware but not truly accepting it. I wish there were some magic pill that would help us all accept the logic but there isn’t. The only cure is time and no contact which we will all (maybe not all) will fail at many times. I do not fault anyone who has failed in this area. It takes some of us many attempts with failures till we get it down and that number is different for everyone. The key point is you must try and keep trying. If you fail that’s ok just pick yourself up and go at it again. For there to be change you have to take action. You have to actively attempt to get better from this. Look at me fully aware of what Narcissism is and fully aware of my own issues yet I still struggle and have numerous times but I do notice with each attempt this all hurts a little bit less. Knowledge does not equal acceptance. You have to actively work at it and it’s a process not necessarily an event. It matters not if you’ve tried once or many times. The point is you must keep trying and eventually indifference comes
Lori
Very true. Great advice.
Lori
Wise words. Very true.
Very well said Lori that’s where I am I have acceptance now working on indifference. Sometimes you think you’ve got there and then something gives you a flash back and your consumed by either anger or sadness again, I find these sites wonderful for picking you up when you stumble. love to you all. ❤
Thank you ladies. All I can say is this is tough stuff for everyone no matter how confident you once were these people take you down. I often feel shame that I fell victim to another one and even more shame when I have urges to contact him. I can logically think why would I contact this loser ? He is in fact a loser. I should be damn he’s gone yet I’m still having days that I’m sad he’s gone that I’m sad he was an illusion and also hurt that someone else is hearing all the wonderful things I once heard. Sigh. But it was all a lie. All of it. So the only choice is to carry on with trying to get over it all. It’s really the only choice we all have
Mercy,
Don’t take this the wrong way, but you never had an edge that is something you created in your mind to keep engaging so that you don’t have to let go of something that you should
The game is quite fascinating and intriguing but there comes a day when you have to accept that you will never win because you aren’t wired to.
…. ..
following
HG is providing brilliant information .
I’m in the midst of what I think are mini fuel hoovers but I’m not sure .
After a terrible discard last September I’m still entangled .
I did all the begging for answers , I lashed out emotionally , I tried to show how hurt I am but no acknowledgement for months.
Then friendly emails , once I reply I am then ignored for 2 , 3 weeks this time could be longer .
This day and age everyone is glued to their phone , so there is no reason to not reply for this length of time unless it is deliberate .
Ugh I sent angry hurt responses , why don you respond it’s rude etc ,then even more emotional ones.
I would then immediately get a reply like nothing happened.
Thanks to HG I saw the pattern , gives just enough to draw me into thinking we will start communicating again then suddenly starts ignoring my replies.Its a clockwork pattern and I’m seeing it at last.
This time I did nothing , no reaction , he eventually contacts 3 weeks later , I let it go for a week and gave a very happy nonchalant short reply with zero fuel , it was borderline dismissive.
No reply , haha I knew it and expended zero emotional energy .
No more reaction from me , Only for HG s work I would be turning in circles .Being ignored is a sign of abuse ,normal people usually give a response within a couple of days unless something serious is happening.
At times I feel the anger , but this site is so good.
HG am I seeing this clearly .
Thanks
Yes it’s aweful K so hard not to react, perhaps as HG night say maybe they were having a low fuel moment when they make contact and your not the only one they contact and if they get better fuel elsewhere they promptly forget you again. It’s dreadful behaviour and deserves only to be ignored. Maybe one day this will be so publicly known that no-one will interact when traits are seen or they will get their Karma by having to work 10 times harder for every ounce of fuel.
Brilliant article HG helps me with my emotional progress and gives clarity as always. Thanks
You are welcome.
I still cannot determine whether I was disengaged with or not. My ex-n believed I was having an affair. I was not. While I was sleeping, she took possession of my phone. I was using an app to communicate with colleagues and she wanted the password to it. I would not give it to her (boundaries) so she proceeded to assault me. I told her I was leaving our residence. She replied, “no I’m leaving” and she left. Six months later, she does the relationship broadcast on social media, showing off her new plaything. She must have had him in the queue as she had mentioned him in conversation (he was a coworker of hers). Long story short we are divorced. In the long run, it does not matter whether I was disengaged from or escaped etc because it is over (for me anyways) but I would like to know for accuracy when reading HG’s writings. Thoughts?
Pale Horse, Sounds like a lesser to me. I have a very similar story. The MR I discuss here I met post break up with my H. I was very attached to MR – still am, which is why I am here. But I have come to realize from this blog that exH was a lesser. Like yours, he suspected me of having affairs (not true). He too assaulted me (twice, once because I wouldn’t give him my phone). I left for awhile. When I returned we lived together for a few weeks, and then he was willing to move out, which is what I wanted. I thought it would be a separation and we would go to counseling. He wouldn’t do it. I asked him if there was someone else and of course he had lined up someone else while I was gone.
The funny thing was that he lined her up just before Christmas and months later said to me, ‘I wanted you to come home for Christmas,’ though he hadn’t asked at the time. Why did he want me to come home AND line up someone else? Because he was petrified of being alone – he needed the fuel to feel alive. This is his fourth live in partner in a dozen years (I met him during a four month gap – he left his first wife the same way he left me, except they also had two kids and we do not share any children). He NEEDS a partner not because of who she is but because he is empty. Same as yours. She needs someone to feel alive and she panicked that you would leave her. Think about her history. Does it fit?
Did I escape or was I disengaged from? From his perspective, I abandoned him, which means I escaped. From my perspective, he abandoned us, which means I was disengaged from. I think both can happen at the same time.
It doesn’t matter to me because I don’t think about L anymore at all. But I did fall into MR’s clutches because I had been primed by L. It is MR I talk about here on this blog. But my L sounds like yours. She needs the fuel and will do anything for it. I would warn you to take care that the next person you meet is not a version of her. Because I did not realize what exH was, I did not take precautions.
SMH,
Thank you for sharing. Our stories do appear to be similar. Interesting insight regarding her panicking. At the time, I had just begun the final year of my doctoral program. After the disengagement/escape occurred, she phoned my mother and one of the things she said to my mother was that I was going to leave her anyway once I completed my program. I believe that this fear stems from two different sources. Her brother was engaged to be married and at the end of his medical residency, he had an affair and broke it off with his fiance to be with the other woman who he subsequently married. Of note, the other woman was also engaged and terminated such with her then fiance. Second, her 1st ex husband had stated once that after she earned her CPA license, she became a different person and cheated on him (I know…huge red flag). She also began dating me soon after their divorce (red flag #2). So, yes, it does fit with her history. I am concerned about my choice in partners. Obviously empaths are targeted by N’s but there are many things I have learned about myself and how such things attract them to me and attract me to them.
Pale Horse, maybe you’ll meet a sweet little empath on narcsite and make a love connection! Call it beta testing for HGs narc-free dating site.
LOL MB
Lol MB. You never know!!
Pale Horse, I don’t think I’m the only one here rooting for you. You seem like an awesome guy with a lot to offer and you deserve to have a partner that appreciates that.
Thanks MB!
Pale Horse, Insecure people panic rather than discussing their worries and they do impulsive and destructive things out of fear. Yours voiced her fears to your mother, and that is an important piece of information for you to have in order to figure out what happened.
I too worry about my choices but looking back on my history, I can just call it a bad run. I am not generally attracted to the type. I think because my L was so needy, I felt super guilty when we split up, as if I was a bad mother and my kid had run away. When I met MR I was determined to be the most fun, supportive, and attentive partner. LOL. Now I am back to bitchy, self-absorbed me, which only attracts laid back and secure men.
I wish I had known what my L was before I met MR, because I would have been much more cautious. I think I have a good head on my shoulders and you sound like you do too. There is nothing to suggest that it is a pattern. You are in a good position to find the right kind of person for you.
SMH, Thank you for your keen insights. This leads me to more questions I will have to address a little later on…
Are you sure she didnt have Borderline Personality Disorder?
I have contemplated this to exhaustion. I just don’t see it. I do think she has some BPD traits but there is much overlap between NPD and BPD and in the end I believe NPD wins out in her case.
Yes it does, clearly.
Pale Horse
She has disengaged from you and you have been replaced.
Ok thanks. The replacement was a given.
Pale Horse, My L disengaged too. My MR has not and maybe never will. I think Ls disengage because their fuel needs are different – maybe more easily satisfied.
You are welcome, Pale Horse.
Pale Horse, you are showing such dignity and courage despite the physical, emotional and mental violence perpetrated against you by your ex-N.
You have my respect.
I see how my Dad has managed and changed after long years of marriage to my N-mum, and he had UL or LMR npd father-in-law to deal with. He became my role model for how to placate the N rages.
I see how my brother-in-law has become warped and equally toxic as my victim-N sister. It’s not pretty.
For years he’s complained about her ST and stonewalling, and inability to discuss/resolve anything. She hasn’t changed one bit. He on the other hand is becoming morbidly obese. Anyone would comfort eat in that relationship, they could only ever be love-starved.
I feel heartache that my nephews are normalising this as ‘love’, and that they’ll gravitate towards women like their mum.
Do you have male friends who understand and have been entangled with a narc? Are they supportive?
Pale Horse, maybe this is a bright side? Looking towards the future, what would it have looked like with your L? I gave a lot of thought to that with my L, and shuddered at the possibilities…
SMH, I cannot see the future looking any better sans disengagement. In fact, I believe it would have become considerably worse as I would have become less financially dependent on her, post-graduation, as my career took off. Less dependence equals less control and likely a more severe devaluation (if that is possible).
Pale Horse, yes, she sensed you would pull away from her – deep insecurity. It’s very hard to be with someone who is insecure because no amount of reassurance helps and one gets tired of it after awhile. It makes you feel like the person’s parent rather than their partner.
Hi SMH,
Sorry for the delayed response. You are correct on all counts. However, she was incorrect as I would not have pulled away from her. A strength/weakness of mine is that I do not give up and I am loyal to a fault. In the end she fulfilled her self-prophecy at the cost of losing me (still trying to convince myself of this). I once told her that deep down, she wanted to be loved, and that she likely believed that her “push” mechanisms served her in obtaining the love she desired but in the long term, they would simply push people away from her. Thus, she would be fated to what she was trying to avoid (being unloved). After learning much through HG and everyone on the blog, I’m not so sure that statement holds water anymore.
Pale Horse, No narc has love in their life. To receive love, you have to be able to give it and they cannot. Unconditional love is only for children. There are obviously people who can stay with narcs over the long-term. They are co-dependents. Maybe your ex’s new squeeze is one of those as I believe they come in the male as well as the female variety, but the lying, cheating and manipulations do not stop. You can rest assured that if she is not with you she is not worth having. As I said, with my L looking back to before I even knew him, he the same thing four times, including abandoning his two children through what looked like a normal divorce but in retrospect was not. Is he looking for love? Is he able to give it? Is everything about him? The only reason he is with someone is to have someone to take care of him, not because he loves that person. That is why your L is with someone new. You asked for something real and she could not give it. Keep that ‘long run’ in your head because that is what it will take to see the patterns.
Thank you SMH. As to the new IPPS:
In my pre-NC days, I viewed his Facebook profile and, to me, he presents as a lost soul, the black sheep of his family, etc. Also, he has many memes that are dark in nature. So, I don’t know if she targeted him because she sees him as vulnerable. Regardless, what does it matter, right? She is his problem now.
Hi Caroline,
Thank you for your kind words. To answer your questions, no I do not have any male friends who understand my experience but they have been supportive. I find that very few, if any, people truly understand unless they have been through it themselves.
HG Tudor everything you have said on this site has been true and has helped me and others I have introduced your site to, so thank you. Im hoping you can answer a question for me. My ex reached out an apology 10 mos after disgard then twice this past week (14 months after disgard). My bestie was livid because she has seen everything I have gone through and Im finally moving forward and healing so she emailed him and asked he not contact me again if he ever cared because I am doing great and dont need to rehash the past. Im hoping this will do it. The past emails were ‘unblock me’ ‘he appologized. Said he was trying to be a better person but he is broken. He doesnt blame me for not responding’ then after my bestie sent him an email he just repeated what she said ‘glad to hear she is great. I will not contact her again’. From your perspective can I believe he wont contact pr my gut is saying his ego will take over and not like that Im doing well. Man I didn’t need this. I was so doing so good. Then of course his last email was so sad it makes me worry. I almost reached out to a friend but bestie knows his game and was like ‘no’. Anyway would appreciate your input of course!
Thank you for your compliment and sharing my work. There remains a risk of further hoovering, tighten your no contact regime – send his emails to spam and do not look in the folder. If he send an email from a different address and you know it is him, stop reading it immediately and delete.
Thank you so much! You have no idea how much you have helped me through this!
You are welcome.
I don’t know what it was about this article or even if it was this article at this particular time but I feel like I finally “get it”. I’ve been in a relationship with a narc for 7 years and reading HGs writings for about 3 years. I don’t comment often unless a question hits me or I feel the need to express myself to a community that understands what we go through.
When I first came to this site it was very hard to read. This site is such a dark place to be when all you want is relief from the pain that the narc is inflicting. At first when I started reading I was in denial. “no I am not an appliance. Im a person with feelings”. It’s hard to accept that just because HG says it, it must be true. Over the years I have been disengaged and hoovered countless times. It is between that period that I gain my strength here. I’ve searched other sites for answers but it’s a bunch of fluff. The hard truth is that you can’t fluff your way out of the entanglement with a narc. It’s dark and it hurts and it’ sucks.
I’ve read the same articles over and over and in different context but each time I read Im able to apply something new to a situation that is or has happened to me. The most important thing I’ve learned on this site is to strengthen my logical thinking. When disengagement would happen in the past it was like the world was coming down around me. My emotions were out of control wondering why or how could this happen out of nowhere after giving so much up for him. Now my logical thinking tells me that he will be back if I want him to be. I know I serve a function and it’s up to me if I want to function again.
So in his world I may be a microwave that heats up his fuel, and during disengagement he may be thinking that his microwave is no longer functioning. Honestly, fuck his world!! I’ll function if and when I want to because his world is meaningless. It’s serves ME no purpose, only him. He has trained and conditioned me to believe that there is no world beyond him. Haha jokes on him because this appliance is alive and has a mind of her own thanks to what I’ve learned here.
I truly thank you HG for saving my dignity, giving me strength to think logically and for forcing me to pull myself out of that pool of self pity. I now function for myself, no one else.
You are welcome.
“it’s dark, it hurts and it sucks…”
If only narcs came with this warning label!
Caroline
People would just ignore it. Warning labels don’t work. Look at cigarettes – and they kill you.