What Am I To The Narcissist?
For those who have become ensnared with our kind, it is a frequent question to wonder what you are to the narcissist. Of course, the short answer is that you are an appliance that is there to provide fuel first and foremost and there may also be the acquisition of traits from you and residual benefits. However, those that have begun to understand the narcissistic dynamic to some extent want to know how they have been regarded by the narcissist in terms of that dynamic. Of those questions, these are the ones which appear most often:-
Was I a primary source?
I don’t think I was devalued, why was that?
Have I been discarded?
Why did he not commit to me?
How has he moved on to somebody else so quickly?
Why did I have such a short golden period?
I feel like I am always hanging on for him, why is that?
It is typically the case that those questions are usually asked by someone who is an Intimate Partner Secondary Source (“IPSS”) although that person may not actually realise that this is the case. This article will discuss the IPSS and some of the peculiarities which arise with being an appliance placed in this role.
By way of brief re-cap, someone who is a primary source may be an intimate partner or a non-intimate partner. In the vast majority of cases the primary source is an intimate partner, thus a spouse, partner, boyfriend/girlfriend. You spend most of your time together and this arrangement occurs so that we are able to draw fuel from you each and every day, that fuel is of a high calibre (because of the greater emotional connection you have to us by reason of being a primary source and also because of your empathic traits). Occasionally the primary source is not an intimate partner and is usually then a family member.
A secondary source is a colleague, a friend or a family member. The secondary source will be seduced so that their loyalty and fuel is secured. Of course this is not done in a romantic fashion but through charm, pleasantry, doing favours and handing out benefits so that the appliance is drawn to the narcissist and is then installed in the position of secondary source.
A secondary source has an elongated golden period. This is because of the following factors:-
- The narcissist only draws on the secondary source’s fuel intermittently (compared to drawing on the fuel of the primary source);
- The secondary source is usually more compliant and does what the narcissist wants because the demands made of him or her are not as extensive as those made on the primary source;
- The fuel provided by the secondary source stays fresher and more potent for longer because it is only drawn on intermittently;
- The secondary source is less likely to challenge,wound or defy the narcissist
Accordingly, a secondary source will enjoy a lengthy golden period. They may not be ever be devalued. If they fail to provide fuel, become disloyal and fail to do what the narcissist wants, they may be devalued but usually they will be immediately discarded. This is because it serves the narcissist better to remove the ‘rotten apple’ from hanging around and polluting the minds of other members of the coterie. It is also easy enough to seduce a new secondary source or turn to other existing ones. Thus, where a secondary source becomes unreliable they are usually discarded. Devaluation may only occur where an example needs to be made of the secondary source (this is usually more of the case for colleagues and family members as there is a connection beyond friendship) or the narcissist feels a need for the negative fuel and does not regard the devaluation as likely to damage the façade.
All secondary sources commence their relationship with the narcissist from a non-intimate position and there they may stay for a very long time. Some however are promoted to the position of IPSS.
This happens when the narcissist is devaluing their primary source and is looking to replace them. The promotion of a secondary source to that of IPSS means that we are considering whether you are worthy of then being promoted to a IP primary source and the existing one is discarded.
When this happens there is also the likelihood of somebody else occupying the role of IPSS. We often have more than one as in effect we are holding auditions for those who may be promoted to the position of primary source. This results in several scenarios arising.
- The existing primary source, let us say this is a wife, is being devalued. The narcissist embarks on affair with another woman who is the IPSS. She may have been someone he has known as secondary source friend for some time and has recently promoted, or he may have approached her and become a secondary source friend who is very quickly promoted to IPSS. In this dynamic you, as the IPSS, may know about the wife and she is smeared to you, she is abusive, unloving and so on. You are seduced and your responses convince the narcissist that you will make an effective primary source so the existing primary source is discarded and you are then installed as the replacement primary source.
- The scenario is the same as above however there are periods during your seduction as IPSS when the narcissist goes quiet. You may think that you are being devalued. You are not. As explained above, the narcissist regards a secondary source as an intermittent provider of fuel and therefore when this happens it is likely that a Respite Period has been granted to the existing primary source, thus the narcissist allows a golden period again, he is preoccupied with the existing primary source and you are kept on ice until the Respite Period ends. The devaluation of the existing primary source continues and your seduction continues once again. Eventually, the narcissist deems you worth of promotion, you are embedded and the existing primary source is discarded and you are installed as her replacement. This may take months or even years. During this period, if you accept the periods of quiet without complaint, there will be no comeback from the narcissist. If however you question what is going on, you will most likely be subjected to future-faking from the narcissist in order to maintain your interest. He will talk about needing to sort divorce arrangements out, or how the house is taking too long to sell, the children need to be sorted out, he hasn’t told his parents yet, it is not a good time for the soon to be ex-spouse as her father has died, it is her birthday next month, it is nearly Christmas and so on. This future faking is done because the narcissist regards you as too valuable to drop and wants to keep you in place as you are earmarked for promotion, but he has not yet decided that you are worthy of such promotion and thus has allowed the existing primary source Respite Periods until he is convinced you are a worthwhile replacement.
- The same scenario as two above but there is another IPSS. In order to better our chances of securing an excellent replacement primary source, we are devaluing the existing primary source and we are cultivating leads with at least two IPSS. Thus, we spend the occasional wonderful weekend with you but make various excuses as to how we can only see you once a month. This is being done for two reasons. The first is because we must make time for the ongoing devaluation of the primary source and also to spend time with the other IPSS who is being cultivated. The second reason is to test your resolve. If you reject such an arrangement then we will conclude that you lack certain traits that would make you a good primary source, such as you challenge us too readily, you lack ‘stickability’ and you are not responding to our charm and seduction as deeply as we had hoped or planned. In such an instance our attention will switch to the other IPSS but you are unlikely to be discarded. This is because you have shown potential, provided fuel and therefore we may as well keep you on ice to call on for fuel or to triangulate with the existing primary source and/or the other IPSS in order to satisfy our fuel needs.
If you do not challenge this arrangement then it is a straight fight between you and the other IPSS as to who will eventually be crowned as primary source. You may know about the devalued primary source but you probably will not know about the other IPSS. You will both be tested, so you can expect cancelled arrangements, occasional bouts of odd acts and distant behaviours. These are not acts of devaluation but are rather tests during your seduction to ensure that you are made of the right stuff to be promoted to primary source and also that you are better than your competing IPSS. The nature of this competition is such that you may be in front one month and thus things will seem to be going well with us and then you will be behind your competitor the next month so things will be less pleasant. You are jockeying for position and all the while we are obtaining fuel as we ascertain who will be the best person to be promoted. This could go on for years as you are strung along.
If you then learn that the primary source has finally been discarded but somebody else is being paraded around as our girlfriend and you cannot understand how that has happened, because there is still (albeit minimal) contact with you, then you have lost the race to become primary source. This other person seems to have come out of nowhere but they have not. They have been cultivated behind the scenes and we have decided that they would make the best primary source. The existing one has been discarded, the competitor IPSS who you knew nothing about (or might just have been referred to as a ‘friend’) is installed as primary source.
Even when this happens, you are still unlikely to be discarded because we still see value as keeping you as a secondary source. There has been some investment in you and if you do not cause a problem for us, you will be retained and at some future point there will be a resumption of the relationship to draw fuel, to use you to triangulate with the now being discarded primary source and even to consider installing you as primary source. This latter consideration arises where you would be a good primary source, but the competitor was deemed even better. However, once that competitor is devalued, your status as a good potential primary source is revisited. Unless of course another competitor IPSS is sought and this one is deemed better than you.
If you rail against this treatment as you find yourself side-lined when you expected to become the primary source, but some usurper has appeared instead, this may be tolerated for the negative fuel and the purposes of triangulation. If however you become problematic whereby you may expose us, causes problems with the façade and interfere with the newly installed primary source, you can expect to be devalued, smeared and discarded.
4. You may find that there is no primary source. You are referred to as partner or girlfriend but your engagement with us is intermittent, excuses are made as to why we cannot see more of you, there are occasional periods of silence and you are strung along in this position for some time, unsure of what you actually are. Are you our girlfriend or just a friend with benefits? When this happens it is the case that we will have several IPSS on our books. The combination of all these interests and the attendant fuel means that there is no pressing need for a primary source and we are content to alternate between the various IPSS until we establish one which is installed as primary source.
The IPSS does not experience the standard template of seduction-devaluation-discard and this is why many commentators fail to explain our behaviours effectively to someone who is an IPSS. The narcissistic dynamic is different. The reason for this is that you are effectively placed in limbo. You may not be good enough to be promoted to the position of primary source but you are too valuable to be cast to one side and thus the dance continues for as long as you will allow it without wounding or challenging us.
Those who do not understand our kind tend to fall into the trap of thinking that we are some kind of commitment-phobe and will dole out erroneous advice to you in terms of making you try to bring about that commitment. All this will do is cause you further consternation as the decision is ours, not yours.
If you find yourself in the position of engaging with somebody who treats you well, but only does so intermittently, who occasionally seems to test you (and it is often difficult to spot this) and issues lots of promises about what will happen in the future but there is never any delivery, there is every chance that you are an IPSS entangled with one of our kind.
72 thoughts on “What Am I To The Narcissist?”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.
Based on the last paragraph I must assume I was an IPSS.
Quasi, if I may ask, after you have told to your husband, how did it affect your NC with the narc? Did it also help you to be stronger in GOSO regime, or the same addiction feelings persist? And how are u dealing with them now you husband knows?
Hi trocadero,
I do not mind you asking at all, especially when you ask so courteously.
I will try and answer without a whole history.
Telling my husband has had no impact on NC, for me I readied myself for this before the narcissist disengaged from me. So at the point of disengagement he heard nothing from me and had absolutely no response to this action. He would have only gained delusional thought fuel.
I felt many things including a great deal of pain and loss of a friendship that I wanted- but he did not hear of, or know of what was felt.
I have been in his physical presence 4 times since disengagement ( end December ‘17). Each time was easier and I chose to ignore him and carry on, again he will perceive whatever he will from these occasions. The important thing is for me it affected me less each time.
I wanted a friendship with the narcissist, he wanted more and manipulated it over a period of time in false friendship to achieve this aim. ( I only had sex with him once and it was not a long affair if you want to call it that, when it reached this point I felt it was over as this was not something I ever really wanted).
Although I always have and still acknowledge my responsibility and accountability for my actions and decisions. I was targeted however I do not relate to being a victim, I was too aware of my choices to feel this, he did not make me do anything, but he heavily influenced and pushed my shockingly bad boundaries.
Addiction wise I’m unsure of what it may have been, was it the pure fact that he was a narcissist and I was drawn to this on a subliminal level? Or was it just nice to to have that attention, if we are honest it is human to like positive attention from others – narcissists are not the only ones who like to feel wanted and special.
I feel I am and will continue to be susceptible to certain things as I have acknowledged the dirty empath and selfishness traits within me. But as ever it will be down to me what I allow into my life, and what I engage in. I will always take responsibility for my actions and decisions. Because they are mine.
Hope is the one thing that is there, as a steering force, that I continue now on a better path with stronger defendable boundaries.
Telling my husband aired a single truth that I felt would affect us in many other ways if unsaid, to be honest telling this truth was never about the narcissist, it was about my relationship with my husband. The narcissist is not in my life and had not been since HG assisted me to eradicate his ever presence.
I hope that this answers the questions you had, thank you for responding to my comment.
I wish you well in your journey, remembering it is your own, and unique to you. All the best to you.
Thank you very much Quasi,I was asking because of my own situation. I don’t feel the need to tell my husband, but since I have gone NC it is hard..the ever presence thing..in fact I realized that the things I am missing are more about me than the narc so I am still on a long way to go on self-healing my childhood wounds that led me to this. Anyway, your experience gives me hope that the ever presence will be gone as well one day. Wish you all the best <3
You will get there, you will develop your own route and you will achieve what you challenge yourself to do. Just have faith in yourself. Value yourself and be kind to yourself. They are the most important things. Because this is about you and not the narcissist now. To relinquish ever presence the focus needs to come back to you, not the narcissist. Good luck ❤️
SMH
(No reply button hence here)
Superb post to Quasi much further down in the thread….re.slap slap.
Thank you SMH… I needed that that reminder today too. I appreciated it.
You are inspirational quite often.
Your words are really solid and feel so helpful.
👍🌹💛
Aw thanks DebbieWolf. I am happy to give out slaps to anyone who needs them, including to myself! I hope you are looking for an American guy! 🙂
SMH
An American guy would have to come a long way for coffee….. I’m English.
Haha.
I’m not actually looking right now I tend to get comfortable on my own and go for a while without a boyfriend..
it’s been 3 years since I split up properly with nex but he has relentlessly pursued me until June this year.
I went on a blind date about 6 months ago but the guy turned out to be quite old and a pensioner…!!!
he had said he worked in lifeboat rescue!!
anyway… as I always say… that’s another story…haha..
I’m going to be doing some house decorating… I rehashed my garden over the summer … AstroTurf….
I have no experience in these things but I do a good job … I like to learn on the job as the saying goes haha… may take me awhile but keeps me occupied.
I’m not looking for the right man as HG says weed out the wrong ones and let the right one appear.
in the meantime I’m simply not looking but I do need to get out more like you previously said..
I do go out a little bit but not a lot like I used to.
I have off days as we all do..
I guess I just need to heal properly but I’m quite impressed with things I have learnt and how I can apply them…
(Even the Chris Watts story, I’m quite pleased that I virtually nailed it now that I have read HGs analysis article.!!)
This helps me to know that I can trust that I have learned stuff and perhaps give me a bit more confidence to get and out about a little more with wider open eyes.
Debbie, You will get there. I also self-isolated for quite a while. I know you are English and live in the UK. Plenty of American guys there when you are ready!!
I have learned a lot here too and I am much more insistent about weeding out the wrong guys. I know in an instant when I meet them because I can now spot the needy, the whiners, the self-absorbed, the controlling.
The danger is in being physically attracted and therefore ignoring the red flags. MRN gave plenty of warnings but our chemistry was off the charts, I just wanted a fling so thought it was all right, and I did not know about narcs or what to look for. Now I do. xx
SMH
You know I do believe in strange coincidences…. I wouldn’t put it past the universe to suddenly put me into the path of a man who’s talking in an American accent now since you’ve mentioned it!!
Perhaps my eyes will look naughtily at him they do have a tendancy of doing that!! To look a little mischievous.. or so I have been told… no wonder I end up paddling in hot water!
However Fair Warning you give…to watch out for the sexual attraction just in case it blinds…keep in mind the red flags and don’t go off on one!!!!
Haha… making me smile again aren’t you SMH… but also you again offer very Good Food for thought…xx
Debbie, That is the way things happen. Coincidences when you least expect them. Doesn’t mean they are right for you but hey, you now have the knowledge and tools you need. xx
SMH, as an American, I’m curious why you are advocating American men to DW?
MB, because she said she worked with one and joked around with him a lot.
SMH, that’s right. The pretzels!
Yes, MB! Chocolate covered pretzels!
Oh my god. this is my situation exactly. IPSS “lost” (Using the word lost here very loosely) to the other IPSS, because I confronted him about red flag behavior.
Everything in this article is literally 10000% accurate for me. every single word. Thank You HG for clarifying this for me.
Hes blocked now and lives 1000 miles away so I dont see him coming back for round II.
You are most welcome.
I too have had distance as a helper in disengagement. I simply no longer spend 6 hours driving to see him for a weekend. Ugh, how easily I can berate myself for my naivete, but we don’t know what we don’t know and I’m over that, have forgiven myself as I would anyone else. It was novel.
I was previously an IPSS to a MMRN confirmed during a consultation with you. I was strong for a while then I got weak and broke NC. After being involved again after a month or so, I moved in with him for a month while I was waiting to move into my new home. I saw so many improvements in him until I had been in my new place for around a month. His true colors began to show again.
I’ve followed this blog for the last 2 years and read almost all of your books. I knew better. I could predict his moves before they happened and called him out on every single one. How many others are like me?
I’m seriously considering another consultation because I can’t help but wonder if I’m less of a super empath and more of a narcissist myself. Possibly an upper-lesser or mid-ranger. Does anyone else start to see a common thread in behaviors? I know as a SE we can dim our empathic traits and I’ve noted the “narcissistic fleas” but I have to wonder where that line is.
@littlemissidealist, I dont know if that makes you a narcissist. The second time around you were more informed, knew what to look for etc, you had knowledge of all the tools hed use and knew the manipulations since you had followed this blog and read all of HG’s books. As an SE, I can dim my empathic traits as well and dig deep to pull out some narcissistic traits of my own. However, they are only activated when I feel utterly betrayed and even then they are only temporary. at my core I am still highly empathic.
Leigh,
Thank you. I dimmed them pretty far with him and felt like I was turning the tables. He said, “two wrongs don’t make a right.” Typically, I would agree and feel guilty. I didn’t really feel much at all.
Leigh,
Yeah, the guilt I feel afterward is probably my saving grace. Also the fact that I’m not two- faced. Yet, somehow I find myself wondering if my life would be easier if I was because people don’t seem to like the truth.
As it turned out, after nearly a 10 year relationship I was nothing to the narcissist. I’m recovering from the discard, lies, and smearing, but it is still and will always be a bitter pill to swallow.
Makes my head spin and I still have no idea if I was CIPPS but I think CIPSS, whom he met while I was away for five months, was more likely being groomed. She was smart, though, didn’t sleep with him and backed away.
Initially I thought he was a commitment-phobe. I had never experienced anything like it so I looked up emotionally unavailable, hot/cold etc. (first had to figure out what those things were). But during FR periods when I hadn’t left and he wasn’t hoovering and things were relatively calm – the one thing that drove me nuts was the limbo. In the end, that was what made me leave (it was also why I left the first time, after knowing him just for a month, but then I second guessed myself).
It was not about his inability to ‘choose me’ – I wasn’t playing the pick me dance. It was that he simply could not be 100% present and he was not committed to anyone or anything – every time he wasn’t shelving me he was devaluing IPPS, right? Every time he did shelve me she had a respite period, right? Around the time that I told him that I was happy as IPSS, she told him that he was neglecting her. His tone changed with me and that is why I am not sure if I was being groomed or not.
Shelving works beautifully with limbo. He will always be in limbo but I want to live fully in this life.
Hi H.G.,
I am trying to make this question/info somewhat “to the point”and hope you will allow me the gift of your personal perspective.
I was rich fuel for my greater for almost 30 years. He was able to check off the marriage, children and dutiful wife box which helped advance his career.
I got tired of his abuse and started pulling off his mask and filed for divorce and moved away. Immediately upon my divorcing him he moved in his secondary intimite supply source for the next 2.years and they lived in our former family home. My young adult children said they no longer wanted to visit dad because of the crazy lady he was living with that ruled him.
She went away and new wife soon appeared. New wife was on her third husband and extremely needy and has a somewhat weak personality. She did add credence to his holy- -false-mage persona.
Question — do you think Greater acknowledged to himself that his supply sources post divorce were pretty desperate and that he made some poor choices? Did he realize, do you think, that his quality of life went downhill fast?
He died 2 years into the new marriage from a preexisting health condition and needy wife, who said she convinced him to marry her, walked away with a good share of the finances.)
Thanks, for any opinions, H.G.
On the information provided, he does not sound like a Greater to me thus your question is rendered redundant by that shift in likely school. If you want to know what he really was, do organise a Narc Detector consultation.
Dear H.G.,
Thank you for your response.
Please allow me my humble difference of opinion from the viewpoint of a lowly empth.
I still think my ex was a Greater. Sure, no true Greater would allow ANY other human to control him or walk away with his finances by possibly persuading a quick marriage in order for her to do so.
However, the Narc in question had it all in his youth and then lost it by middle age
Youth:, attractive, charming, energetic skilled, extremely smart, popular, cunning, witty, a career of prestige and great status, family, he was looked up to in church, social status, leader, etc.
By late middle age: seems older looking, than real age, paunchy, losing hair, aged out of status-giving way cool job and now has a humdrum 9 to 5 job. Rich steady fuel supply left him, mask slipping off and people noticing. Kicked out of church position for an inappropriate friendship, adult children avoiding more and more, new supply sources are proving embarrasing, financial upheaval from divorce, has to be responsible for his own deisions, pressured by divorce lawyer to comply with procedings or go to jail. Stress tension and finally huge health issue that drained energy and vitality and time. There are probably many more stressors that I have forgotten or don’t know about.
Old age and life lessons aren’t kind. To sum it all up, I think too many issues were out of his control and he knew it. He was fighting for his life from a horrible painful disease that sapped his energy. The last few years he had to hold it together and couldn’t afford to play the narc game like he did in the old days. He didn’t win.
Any thoughts on how the empath views the fall of the (non categorized) narc? Do you think a Greater could be so used up by losing so much that was out of his or her control that they can eventualky appear like a Non greater?
Can someone be a rich fuel supply to a narc for 30 years? How did she not become stale fuel? What would persuade you to stay with your empath that long?
Wissh
I think everybody’s fuel gets stale in a 30 year relationship. I lived with mine for 30 years, but most of that I was being devalued.
I think the reason they stay in relationships for so long is the residual benefits. It’s all the other things they get from having us in their lives – extra Income, running the house, raising the children, accomplishments of ours that they can brag about, having an enviable façade to impress others, etc.
Wissh,
I was IPSS and mine has been with IPPS for close to 30 years (if they are still together – no idea). What Windstorm says about the residual benefits is what I saw (both of their Instagram accounts are public, as are some of their kids’ accounts, so I saw a lot). IPPS never worked. She raised the kids (even though they are all grown now and she has an advanced degree), ran the house and ‘dabbled.’
IPPS’s fuel does get stale but that is what IPSS is for. And when IPSS gets stale, well, IPPS is there with the facade (shelving/respite). When I was black, IPPS was white; when IPPS was black, I was white.
I just want to say here that I was confused for a long time because it looked like a mid-life crisis or a split-self affair (and I did not know about IPPS for the first 8 months). But it didn’t really fit the pattern and it was not his first affair. Now that I understand about the fuel, it all makes sense. I am capable of spewing immense quantities of both positive and negative fuel.
“You may not be good enough to be promoted to the position of primary source but you are too valuable to be cast to one side” sentences like this use to bother me but I’ve come to realize they are from the narcissist point of view . I view the words “not good enough” as not as easily manipulated or not as compliant. In a world without the narcissist those are good traits to have. One question, is the wife/live- girlfriend ever a IPSS? Also is it possible that the narc spends more time with the IPSS than the primary?
Primary source seems like the ultimate devaluation though. Intimacy or comfort and familiarity —and sex, are kept separate, right?
There is no true intimacy with a narcissist.
Nobody is allowed into the inner sanctum.
Promoted when the ipps is in devaluation-
Yes this is when it turned to a dark path. I know it was meant to, I know I learned more, and worked out what he was because of this change. I know why it happened and that I withdrew because of this. I know I was never a candidate ipps and never wanted to be.
Knowing ended my time with him, it shortened my time in his world. For this I can only be thankful.
The one thing that stayed with me for months, after his ever presence had evaporated, this one thing was a thought..
it was a grief, for the friendship I wanted and selfishly pursued past a point of return; it was a hope that it could have been just a friendship even after it was clearly not. ( it was a delusion of my own making).
People don’t understand how I can love my friends so fiercely, they are my family too, they have a very high value to me- I place a high value in them.
My friends do not understand how I could see him as a friend for all that time. The problem was I had put him in my heart as I had put them in my heart. It has taken some time to yank that anchor out, and it has left and impression that will remain as a reminder. Always a lesson from a dance with a narcissist. A lesson to protect my heart a little better and the people who are most important within it.
This article is beyond accurate… oh my
Quasi, I felt this way too – I missed what I thought was a friendship. But when I tried to be friends, it was more of the same…Anyone might have trouble accepting a friendship post ‘break up’ but with narc it did not give him control, it frustrated him, and it made his behavior more strange. It also made my behavior different because I felt more in control of myself (not of him – I did not initiate contact once during this period). The dynamic changed and he could not manipulate me anymore, so he tried to reel me back with what I now understand to be pity hoovers. I felt like alt-IPPS during this period. He’d really had no experience for decades with any woman outside of IPPS, sister and mother. His workplace and profession were almost all male, he hung out with men, and he was something of a bro (alpha male idiot in American slang). He did not know how to be friends with a woman. We are more evolved than they are and we read too much into them! xx
Thank you SMH,
I can sense that in your story, your strength has always come through in your posts and I can only imagine how frustrating that was for him, especially as he had limited experience. All I can say is good on ya lady!
This article evoked an emotional response due to its accuracy, and that thought the – choice in promoting me being his and not mine. I would have been quite content with a friendship as all I ever wanted from him.
However saying that I recognise that it would of been a longer and potentially just as damaging experience, had this been the case due to the depth of love and attachment I have for my friends. Him promoting me to ipss when he devalued his girlfriend was the illumination of who he was.
And also knowing more of what lies within me and the shadow, that I needed to see. So essentially it was all meant to be.
But just because it was meant to be does not make it hurt less, it just helps me to accept and let go of that hurt.
Qxx
Quasi,
Same with guy I was dating on and off – the one who died in June (I might have mentioned him to you somewhere). I really wanted to be friends (much more than I wanted to be friends with MRN) because he was so much fun and every minute with him was an adventure. But he kept making passes, triangulating, approaching and avoiding, etc. This went on for almost three years and I held him at arm’s length because he was so unclear about what he wanted and didn’t seem to care what I wanted at all. He put me into several dicey situations when I’d fear that he would abandon me. And then he’d take me out on a ‘date.’ In retrospect, I see he wanted fuel and control, and I think he was a narc too, but of a different sort than MRN.
All of our friends are mourning his death but I had such a hard time with him (as did his ex wife, ex girlfriend, daughters and sister) that I have mixed feelings. I can’t honestly say how ‘great’ he was because in truth, he wasn’t that way to me.
Deep down these types are insecure and only know one way to be with a woman. If she doesn’t go along, they do not know how to handle it. xx
Hi SMH,
Yes you have spoken of him, but not in that detail, it does sound like a little rollercoaster ride a narcissist may take you on, so maybe he was too.
You are bound to have mixed feelings as he clearly showed you different sides to him and it was not all pretty..
It’s tough when you are grieving the loss of the person in death and the relationship that you wanted with them before their death. I hope your doing ok . All I can advise of to feel whatever it is you feel and process it in the way that best suits you. ❤️
You are spot on with your last statement, the LMR I knew had a script for all, and he was clueless when I went off script, with a scratch of the head, not sure why I was not responding like the “others”. I’m sure in some of the tests I did respond as he expected.
-speed of my response ( when on line and with phone)
– agreeing to do things for him
– and the affection he could read in my messages to him- he could see I cared for him- he knew he had secured the hook!
But others he got nothing
– when he ignored a message- I did not chase him ( only once with one Critical self retort )
– when he shelved me – I did not chase him and easily went weeks without contacting him.
Early on if he had not heard from me he would give a nudge and bait with fb post or something- to prompt me to make contact.
One thing he preferred was for me to make the first move in contact, for him to choose to respond or not. Early on I responded to bait as I did not know that this is what it was.
When I knew and the later months the bait did not work.
I stoped looking at his profile on fb a good 3 months before the end, I looked at his posts that came up on my timeline- in kind of obsessional way, to kind of tick that off the list for the day. But I did not go to his actual profile for months before disengagement( or whatever it was).
After the end I still refused to look at his public profile and clearly no longer had him on my timeline as he was no longer on my friends list. He keeps it and his posts public so people can check in, he gives himself thought fuel assuming that they do. I’m sure he assumed I did, but I did not. ( blocking him has since let him know I am not for sure)
The unfriending thing did work for his ipps, they had a split – end of September ( she dumped him following his August / early sept devaluation ( and my promotion to ipss, although she was not aware of me). She seemed like a strong woman and clearly wouldn’t take his shit… he unfriended her.
Two weeks later they are friends on fb again and he has worked his way back to her – I can only imagine that she did react to the unfriending in indignation or upset and made contact not knowing what it was or who he was. Two weeks later he slept with me, but I think they were back together at this point too.
I don’t think it was a black and white thing between she and I.
I think it was just a caught opportunity for him- he saw me, I had already been intimate with him, he knew he had influence over me, he saw me ignoring and avoiding him all night – he did not like this – he followed me, he proved his power – he got what he wanted = super fuel for goal met against the odds and proving his power!
It was not a long extension of the FR for them though, probably a short respite for her to get her back in the FR, but he was grovelling absurdly on fb early December, the kind of posts /memes that make you cringe – she ignored them. He was clearly devaluing her again or just being a dick, she dumped him again mid December and was posting about amazing Christmas presents from her new bf two weeks later – fast worker- I sometimes wonder if they were a case of mid Rangers colliding!
( although he surely utilised her callous treatment of him to further his victim pity plays to all who would listen- heartless harpy)
This has always made me wonder if the rejection from her and clear embarrassment of her moving on immediately exacerbated his reaction to me, lends itself to the potential theory of impulsive (ish) unfriending when he saw my music vid post, when he could have thought I was going to cut him off .. that and it worked for him with others to get a reaction.. either way it was the end for me in my mind, and that’s all that really matters.
Sorry SMH I appear to have gone on a reflective tangent, oh that is so unlike me.. lol..
Qx
That’s OK, Quasi! It was really interesting and insightful to read. They are opportunists and work with a script, and they don’t like to grovel, even though they make us grovel all the time.
I came to realize with MRN that every time I was shelved, IPPS was getting a respite and vv. Of course I was shelved more than she was but the ping ponging between two women is what sounds like was going on with yours too. When one of them does not do as ‘ordered,’ well, narcs come unraveled.
A few things you wrote about trying to be friends resonated:
I didn’t initiate any contact but he contacted me like clockwork. He used to say that I wasn’t ‘spontaneous’ enough (i.e. I did not like being kept on email for hours on end while he decided if he had time to see me). But he was the one who was incredibly rigid and scheduled. It was like he was trying to be spontaneous but did not know how :).
I stopped all banter, except analytically (for instance his ever presence; I wanted to talk to him about how weird it was – I called him my ghost).
When he made sexual references, I’d leave the conversation because it was off limits if we were trying to be friends.
I would not answer immediately. The first time he wrote after I told him we should not be in contact was on a Saturday night. I wrote back at 1:30 a.m., told him I was out (true), and would write in the morning. By the time I woke up, he had written again. It must have unsettled him that I could sleep through his emails!!
I had tendonitis one day, was laid up on the sofa, and told him. He never responded. That is what did it for me. I was in pain and he could not ask how I was. We were supposed to be friends! That’s when I realized I had wounded him a few days earlier, and was the receiving my first ever ST. You cannot do that to a friend, right? I went ballistic after that.
Maybe unfriending from someone you thought was a friend is what has caught you up. Since you are married, you cannot really confront him, right? It is too risky. Since I was not married (well, am but not living with him), I could confront UMR and I did. I know exactly the feeling. Somehow the failure of the friendship made me more upset than the failure of the intimate relationship.
As for dead guy (let’s call him UL), he would bring up other women – this one, that one. He’d ask me out at the last minute and if I couldn’t go, he wouldn’t respond to later messages. He had an ex who worked for him and she would call every time we were out. He would hide us from each other. I knew her and liked her, and we were not a couple, so the whole thing was silly.
The last time we were in contact a month before he died – I was in the UK and he was in the US. He emailed that he had not felt whole since we had spent some time in London together the previous summer. Suddenly, I was his other half…it was not as rocky as with UMR because I was not intimately involved with UL but I did not want another project and never responded to his provocations with drama.
No drama = no fuel but if someone who gave fuel stops without going NC – that is, tries to transition from intimate to friend – I’m not sure HG has addressed that. Have you HG? What does it look like from your perspective?
Quasi, this is why my NC has been more of a fade out. I feel that fading out is more fuel free than a sudden cutting off. It’s more like grey rock.
I do put pretty profile pics on FB, though, I always look happy, and I never mention anyone else :-). I am still goading him. Hahaha.
Thank you SMH,
With the narcissists you have dealt with so strongly, your clearly totally cool dealing with an overly expressive empath who is a bit too chatty! I guess I have also learnt that this is who I am, and I shouldn’t change if I’m true to me… working on those conflicting thoughts as always though.
Your MRN clearly had a pattern that was set firmly in the balance of black and white. When you break it down and do a timeline of interactions these sorts of patterns can come up and be so clear. Yours wanted spontaneous but could not do it himself, maybe that is why he wanted it from you, spontaneously thinking of him, contacting him, to know he was on your mind and in your heart – he wanted to know your focus was on him, so when you went without contacting him he hated it because that was a sign that he was not important enough or in your mind enough, or in your heart enough.
I think the LMR I knew was very much like that too, he wanted me to contact him to know all these things.
The UL sounds just as bad.. but as you say there was no intimacy in that relationship so it is different.
The thing he would never know is just how much he was on my mind, but I fought it, I tried to fight against it every day.
The unfriending was the end for me, I did not confront him because I knew there needed to be an end, and at that time it was not in me to do it, as I cared for him.
I did not confront him because I knew what he was and that would be a bad move, giving him what he wanted – a reaction.
Unfortunately being married did not stop me engaging with him, so it would not have stopped me confronting him. I stopped me from doing so because I had to prioritise me and my family, and let it die – like the feist song ( I better not listen to that anytime soon – damn)
In my mind the relationship I wanted with him ended when he promoted me to IPSS, because I’m married and because deep down that is not what I wanted. I mourned a friendship I thought I had with him, that I felt, but he did not so it was not real.
The problem is I went along with the change in dynamics to keep him in my life as I cared for him, I was naive and thought it could go back, if I hung in to make it so.
He had uncovered the dirty empath streak in me that wanted excitement, danger and to be wanted.
But that streak is just one part of a multifaceted personality, the rest of me wanted him as my friend. A very selfish want. The DE streak was strong and when with him in person I was not all of me, the DE was more in control.
I get what you mean re – fade out, it feels more comfortable to slowly ebb away, maybe under a radar so less noticeable. The bigger deal that is made the more noticeable and fuel rich.
From reading the different articles I have always had the impression that the narcissist perspective is that they decide what your role is and if you change between intimate partner and non intimate partner, they decide if you are painted black or white, they decide to put you on the shelf or take you off.
In their mind they are in control of
All these factors and need to be in full control of them. Our view is inconsequential, unless we criticised them with trying to regain our mind, and they decide if they will correct our behaviour or remove us from the matrix as faulty. It is our fear of loss, the loss of what we valued in them that dreads this removal, even when we know they are no good for us. It is all in our minds.
My withdrawal was my version of fading away from him and taking back more control for myself and my actions, taking ownership of myself and my actions. So having that time away and restricting my view of his world helped me a great deal for when the end came.
You have more strength then me SMH, I love your gumption and how you express yourself.
I can only hope that my DE streak has an infinitesimal power over me the next time I may meet a narcissist in my real life.
Can I ask a favour SMH – can you give me a virtual slap and tell me to snap the **** out of it…
ideally silly fun me needs to come back ! This deep shit is getting too deep… lol..
Thank you lovely lady
Qx
Quasi, I am like you. I write on and on and on. It is cathartic for people like us to write here because it helps us to work out pieces of the puzzle.
A few things but it all comes down to the same thing:
You only wanted to be friends but he enticed you into crossing a boundary (maybe forced you). That’s happened to me in my youth, though not when I was married. It’s a yucky feeling even if you are single and even if the person is not a narc. It’s like they stole something from you rather than you giving it freely. They are thieves, not friends, and you cannot redress the balance. I wouldn’t call it rape but something close to it.
Here is my take that might help you put it into context: MRN did not want ME to be spontaneous. He was simply contrary, as I think HG would agree. Whenever I contacted him, he did the opposite of whatever it was I wanted. If I was just being friendly, he’d try to reel me back; if I wanted to see him, he’d withdraw. That is why I rarely initiated contact and that is what I finally saw that made me escape for good.
It is no coincidence that the day I wounded him post-escape, I was traveling from work (I have really long days when I have to go to my office because it is very far from where I live). He was just home from somewhere. He had not told me he was gone yet he expected me to know he was back. In other words, I was not focused on him but he was free and wanting my attention. The tables had turned because he had quit his job, the thing that always gave him a ready excuse for not giving me attention. See? It all makes sense. Now my attention was elsewhere and he wanted it.
But here is the clincher: had he been in my heart his would have been closed to me. Nothing I did was right. Nothing.
The weeks after were hell because I needed something from him but I also knew that he would resist simply because I needed it. He even said at one point, “I do want to see you,’ as if protecting himself from the distinct possibility that he might have to do something for me. Turned out he did have to do it, but I had to threaten him to get it done.
What is this contrariness about? I know HG has written extensively about it but from what I remember and in my experience it is about keeping us confused, off balance and thinking about them. It is for fuel.
From what you have said, yours is exactly the same. You wanted lessons, he disappeared. You did not want an intimate relationship with him but he had to win, right? He knows you want a friendship so he unfriended you. For what it’s worth, when mine moved he deleted me from WA (a form of unfriending) and did not add me back with his new number. When I did not notice/react he stalked my LinkedIn and then a new fake FB profile popped up. I did not react to any of it other than blocking the fake profiles.
Think: contrary. Whatever I want, this person will want the opposite. That is all it is. Slap, slap, slap. Feeling like a DE is another matter but when you are faced with a master manipulator it is hard not to feel badly about yourself no matter what your life situation. You won’t fall for another narc and neither will I. (Slaps for both of us.) xx
SMH,
That is exactly it, all of your words ring true to me. Thank you so much, the way you have broken this down and your observations have been incredibly helpful to me. Thank you for taking so much time to read my posts and respond in such a supportive way. I really appreciate this.
It was definitely a case enticed / influenced and not forced – I knew what I was saying yes to. You know how I felt in other ways about that night too and how it changed.
It sounds like you have worked out the narcissist’s you knew to a T, patterns, behaviours, contrariness, the opposites of what we want – I’m guessing more so in testing and devaluation Or shelving.
Give you what you want, then twisting it so it does not look or feel how it once did, then rip it away.
Our conversations have helped me process so much, like you say writing it out and sharing here is cathartic, and has been exactly what I needed to round up the processing of my time in his world, with people who know.
Thank you for the slaps ! They were needed. I don’t think I will fall for a narcissist, I didn’t love A, I knew I could not love someone I did not know truly.
What I felt was a deep care, I guess the closest to love I could feel for him. I did not find him attractive, he did not stimulate my mind or make my heart race.
But I was captivated by him as a person, as a being. I think it was purely him being a narcissist that as a standard empath I was drawn to, he was my opposite in every way.
Knowing the narcissist was an education..
Qxx
Quasi, I am always looking for patterns (it’s partly what I do for work). Sometimes it takes awhile to get there because the details are so complex, as is human behavior.
Funny you should mention an education because tonight I was telling someone about MRN and I said it was an education – that I did not regret it. Not because I loved him – like you, I did not know him. He did make my heart race and stimulate my mind but to me that was the narcissism/mystery of him and not the true person. I never believed we were really compatible. Like you, we were such opposites – even our zodiac signs were the worst possible combination – that we found each other fascinating and would joke about it.
Anyway, I was telling this person that the experience helped me to grow. It opened my mind to things I had never encountered and forced me to engage them. This person has a lot of fears so it was in that context of surviving and not worrying about everything so much. Something bad might happen but you learn from it, and more often something good happens. If you close yourself off, you miss it all, the good and the bad. So no, no regrets and you shouldn’t have any either, at least not for knowing the narcissist (nod to HG there!). xx
Thank you SMH,
I also have no regrets, I met him when I was meant to, and I experienced him as I was meant to.
I’m glad that you were able to advise your friend in this way, and use your own life examples. They are much more effective in giving a clear context for someone to understand.
When people are fearful many coping mechanisms and safety behaviours can be adopted; it is natural to do this. Learning to process thoughts and emotions differently; alongside having new skills which are more effective, help people move forward to face fears and become brave in doing so.
Getting to know that the thing or situation that scars them will not be less scary, but that they can feel able to face it anyway.
Any conversation’s that can support or guide people in this way are well worth having.
The knowing that there will always be and needs to be the light and dark, good and bad, order and chaos, to bring balance is also key.
Your friend is very lucky to have you in their world .. you are a very wise and lovely bean!
HG is a tour de force in his very being. Knowing the narcissist has been an educational journey.
Qxx
Quasi, Yes. I appreciate HG and the people here more and more every day. I have never learned as much in a few months! Not just about narcs but also about myself and the others here. As the saying goes, what doesn’t kill you, makes you stronger (and infinitely more interesting)! I feel like a different person – not just different from (different to in British English :-)) who I was with narc, but different from who I was before him. Partly that is from being with him but partly it is from being here on this blog with people like you. xx
I completely agree, I am a different person now, and I like me more then I have in my whole life -even with my dark parts. Maybe I like myself more because I have finally accepted them and feel whole.
SMH, you have been fundamental in my growth here, I thank you for this so very much. Qxx
Quasi, “I like me better than I ever have in my whole life”
It must feel phenomenal to be able to say that. I’m an truly joyful for you. It’s a beautiful thing.
Thank you MB,
I like me better now then I ever have, because I am the truest version of myself with all aspects of my personality acknowledged and accepted. My agreeableness is still high but I know I have teeth if I need them too. I was naive and in a Bubble before I meet A, and did not know my whole self, so the experience is not one u would change now.
As you may have read elsewhere what is left now is full truth, I won’t like myself for hurting others but I will respect myself for being honest in spite of this … Qx
Quasi
I am glad that you like and accept this truest version of yourself. I’ll be honest too. I think this same heightened awareness of yourself may be causing your emotional thinking to surge and cause you to take an action that will create a very different dragon than the one you fear, but one that is just as, or more damaging to you and those you love. A hard decision and only you can make it. Please take your time with it. I wish you well.
NarcAngel, That is a very, very perceptive comment. Brilliant, really.
NA, what’s the different dragon? That went over my head I’m afraid. I’m looking forward to Quasi’s response.
Hi NarcAngel,
Thank you, you are very astute and can read much under the surface of what is said on the blog. You can read from my comments today that emotional thinking is at the fore, it is strong at the moment. But I do consider that my thoughts in relation to this matter have my rational mind in consideration.
My emotions are such at the moment that I’m very aware of the changes in me and how I am responding to him. It worries me that I am not the person he married anymore.
The view I had was that the dragon is the infidelity that I have not disclosed, it sits there all the time, we spend more time in separate areas of the home, I’m constantly working, he knows something happened, and is trying to ignore it hoping things will remedy themselves and go back to normal, that would entail me being who I was before I met the narcissist, and this is not possible now. I am marked and quite a different person entirely. I have been honest in my believe that this is a good thing in regard to being the truest version of me but it means that I am not the version he fell in love with – he knows this deep down.
The dragon could indeed cause a mass of destruction, I could loose my husband, I could split our family. I do not want these things.
And yet how we are now is also not right, if I continue to ignore it, it may not grow to a massive size or it might, it could take over the house. It could explode years down the line and he will be even more hurt due to the timescale that I hid it from him.
I don’t mean to go over this all the time, I know I have spoken of it before, this is indicative of the fact that it is still an issue, the dragon is in my face everyday and it is massively impacting both of us.
I am not a psychologist but I know and have studied and used much theory linked to my job, which is in-line with psychology in my team.
I know what it means to repress and to ignore, I know what it means to be truthful and act honestly with people who matter dearly to you. Lying is a compliant act in a way, there is a place for it.
But this one is big.
NarcAngel I respect you very much and I really do value your opinion when it is a sensitive guide and when it is a blunt slap in the face, you have always been truthful to me and told me what you see. I would very much value any of your advise on how I can deal with this dragon in a way that hurts no one … I am seriously at a loss. Thank you for your response I appreciate your honesty and opinion.
Hi Quasi
Here are some of my thoughts reading your posts thus far:
I know that you are intelligent and look at things from all sides when making a decision. I do believe that you are trying to balance your emotional and rational mind with regard to this matter, but you will always weigh heavier on the emotional side. That is simply who you are.
We are none of us the person that we were when we entered into the relationship. That people change and evolve is inevitable and it should be viewed as a good thing. Even the narcissist notes change, but where they use it as reason for devaluation, non-narcs recognize it as growth and a coming together to form a stronger bond. Its change either way but with very different expectations. You believe that your husband knows something has happened and his ignoring it means that he wants you to go back to who you were before the narcissist yes? Forgive me but that can only be an assumption on your part given that he has not expressed this. What if he does know that something has happened? He likely does, but what if he does not want to know directly? Not because he is callous or wants to ignore it and have you return to who you were before, but because he trusts that you will be able to sort out what is best for you and your family, and that if he ever wants to know-that you will tell him. Sometimes what one might characterize as deceit can be mercy to another. Perhaps you underestimate that he has faced difficult decisions and knows the weight you are under and the confusion you are experiencing (I am not trying to imply under the same circumstances) and it pains him that you are having to go through this yourself but he cant face where it might take you both? What if he just doesnt want to face that dragon because once faced with it, it threatens to burn down the village and everything in it? Maybe he just wants to give you time to absorb what happened and he hopes that once you are past it, that you can resume your life together knowing that there are certain hurdles that must be faced alone, but that they make a family stronger when youve moved past them together and focus more on each other and protecting the village from here on in instead of burning it down?
What if he doesnt want you to return to the person you were before, but wants your changed and stronger self to still pick him to face the future together with?
What if?
Hi NarcAngel
Thank you.
I read through your post saying yep, yep, yep – as all facts and wise.
I appreciate your words and thoughts. They help me balance things more.
The thing is the dragon is very much present and the felt, we are drifting from each other.. the thing that grows between us is getting bigger.
The conversation I was hoping to have with him is going to look at it all, what lead us there – the Swiss cheese effect of incremental changes in our lives and the moves I was making to change and challenge myself, the narcissist was a catalyst and only part of the big picture, of which I have come to know over the days. I have had some time to reflect with some assistance from my sister and a close friend and we can see the spread from the dragon- it’s seeping into many areas of our life, the longer it goes unsaid there are many other damages that can come of it.
I agree with your thoughts as a way of processing it and protecting the village, I have tried to squash it, to compartmentalise to save him from hurt and to protect our family unit- but it is seeping out in others ways, like cracks in a cup, it’s coming out anyway if not directly, it’s making itself know and felt.
You once gave me ( probably more then once) some great advise about re-charging as I do expend a lot of emotional energy on the blog as I choose to, and like to support etc.
If I proceed with taking time with him to discuss and work through things I need to be prepared for an emotional battering which will be justified and I will take. So it is likely I will need to save up the emotional energy for this by being a little quieter on the blog.
( I know this is a good thing for fans of brevity ) although the monologue fans may be at a loss lol…. but you know why.
I can’t say when as it needs to be right, but it is very much at the fore now.
Thank you again, I value your opinion, and thoughts.
They help me a great deal, and will be kept in mind whatever the final outcome in time.
NA: “sometimes what one might characterize as deceit can be mercy to another.” That’s beautiful and so true.
From the ‘Dear Diamond’ song I shared: “What he don’t know will kill him. And that I can’t face.”
It can be considered a selfish act to cause pain to someone for the purpose of relieving your own guilt. Yes, you have it off your heart and the weight of guilt is lifted, but then what? The dragon let out of the bag “burns down the house.”
MB
“It can be considered a selfish act to cause pain to someone for the purpose of relieving your own guilt. Yes, you have it off your heart and the weight of guilt is lifted, but then what? The dragon let out of the bag “burns down the house.”
That sums up my thoughts pretty well. I’d just change “can be considered” to “is.” That’s a difficult thing I had to learn growing up. I am a natural truth teller, but sometimes it is selfish and hurtful to tell the truth. Now I drop hints and make allusions to see if the other person wants to hear truth before I decide whether or not to say something hurtful. It’s all too easy to see what we want, but hard to see what’s best for others.
MB and windstorm, I was just reading this thread again and didn’t realise that these comments we’re here.
I understand what Is said here and that truth telling can be viewed as selfish and hurtful to relieve guilt. I understand that these comments we’re of general reflection in your own life experience, and not necessarily a judgement of what i was planning to do. I have not taken offence due to this understanding, but I did want to speak of and clarify my perspective and reflection of my experience.
All I can say is, this was not my aim or focus, relieving my guilt was never a reason for me to tell him. My guilt remains, I knew it would. Guilt is not an emotion that can be removed by forgiveness of another, it is an emotion created In the internal interpretation of ones actions .
My interpretation of my actions causes my guilt to be strong and rigid. Being rid of it was never a motivator for me.
The motivator was to Set us right again, truths guide our system to lead us properly in the world, they afford us responsibility, and meaning.
I will not go into details but all I can say is that his perspective was one of being thankful that I spoke this truth, he valued my honesty, he knew that I had tortured myself More then he ever could. He knew that to tell him this truth, was to trust him with knowing the very dark in me.
I appreciate the views here, and I respect you all, the one thing I ask is for you to read this comment, for my view In regards to my decision to tell him about my infidelity. They were not to save me from anything.
Not telling this truth would have saved me from pain in exposure to my shameful actions and decisions. It would have saved me from the risk of loosing everything that is most dear to me.
Not telling this truth would not have saved my husband from hurt/pain, it would have come down the line, it would only delay it – months/ years, when the dark between us caused fights and anguish, resentment represented in other things, in other so say problems! It would have
Been projected from the unsaid, it would have torn us apart in the guise of drifting apart with indifference.
Telling this truth was the hardest thing I have ever made myself do, but for us it was the right thing to do. My husband stated that he wished I had told him sooner, but he is glad I told him.
There will always be lots of perceptions and opinions, I appreciate all the views I have heard here. It Forms a rounded view for what could be when truths are told.
Thank you ladies, for your time and advise. I have always valued it.
Qx
Quasi
While we all always have our own ideas and perspectives, only you truly understand your situation and marriage. I am very glad your understanding was well founded and all worked out well. We love you and always want the best for you. I’m glad you realize that. I was taught that out friends should play the role of devil’s advocate to remind us of all options and propel us to make our own choices. I think that was what we were doing. ❤️
You definitely did windstorm, I understand and recognise your intentions and guidance and I value them greatly.
You have been a teacher and a friend to me here. There is a need to hear and recognise all differnt sides to a situation, you have always helped me to see many perspectives.
Your heart is in the words you say, they are felt. For this reasons if for no other i will always cherish your words, what you have a taught me and who you as a person has meant to me in my journey.
I have decided to leave the blog now for many reasons, mainly as I feel that I have reached that place. My previous gushy sign off ‘s to you were my attempt at saying goodbye and letting you know your value to me, without overtly saying goodbye.
But now I am just going to say goodbye and thank you for everything. Your presence on the blog is meaningful, insightful, and has made a significant impact on me. You are loved too windstorm by me and many others here. I will never forget you or your kindness.
❤️ Qx
Thank you very much, Quasi. I will miss your insightful comments. I understand reaching a place where you feel you’re better off to stop immersing yourself daily in thoughts of narcissism. Hopefully you will still drop by on occasion to say hello.
I will never forget you or your kindness, either. Best of luck in your life and raising your children! ❤️
Quasi – I’m glad you explained yourself. I echo your stance on truth.
” he valued my honesty, he knew that I had tortured myself More then he ever could. He knew that to tell him this truth, was to trust him with knowing the very dark in me.”
Your husband sounds like very balanced, wise partner and he understands you well. You’re fortunate to have each other.
Thank you WhoCares as always I appreciate your words.
As above lovely I have decided to leave the blog – I said a farewell to you on the poll comments- although I know notifications can sometimes go funny. Thank you so much for everything, you are awesome.
❤️QX
Dear Quasi,
I’m sorry you are leaving. I wish you and your husband well. Your words have been such a gift to this blog; many of your posts still keep me thinking…or I come across your words to others and also find some wisdom in them. Please do take care.
I haven’t seen your other farewell post but I’m say bye here…I’ll miss your contributions but I do understand the need to leave and detach sometimes – NarcAngel is right; you give of yourself a lot here.
Sometimes I feel that I should also take a break from the blog, as I get too caught up in things here but it keeps me from talking about my narc to people in my day to day life and I have gained so much from my interactions with others here…
You’ll be in my thoughts…(((hugs))) to Quasi.
Quasi, unfortunately, there is no one perfect way to handle life’s messy situations. How great would it be it there was! You made a beautiful point of your husband not being saved from pain. The unsaid causing issues disguised as indifference down the road. The relationship would still be in turmoil, but the foe would be invisible. The way you’ve handled it, exposing the foe, the two of you can divide and conquer it together. As ever, every person must make their own way. Your husband sounds like a lovely human being. It is in times like these that the understanding of “for better or for worse” comes into focus. My heart smiles for the two of you. That which does not kill us, really does makes us stronger.
Thank you MB,
I think you are absolutely correct, everyone needs to decide upon their own path and make the decisions which are hopefully right for them.
To be honest MB I responded to this thread when I read the extra comments from a place of emotional mind. But not in a negative way, I think I just wanted to express myself and my view of why I made that final decision to you and windstorm, as I value you both very much, and as such I value your opinion of me as a person. I did not want you to think Badly of me, so I wanted to say that selfishness led me to the bad choices I made with the narcissist, but in my view it did not lead me to the telling of this one truth.
My selfishness is there and still apparent to me at times, I still think of and do things that could be considered as acting within this trait, but telling my husband what happend that night, Did not feel motivated by that trait in me.
I know it’s hard to really know on line, as we do not know each other in real life. However what I do know is that you guys and a few others have consistently been there for me, and have helped me through some dark moments and helped me to see light again.
You really do have a gift MB, and you have a compassion that comes accross in all that you write here.
Your bravery is seen in your open honesty and expressions. My view of you is, of a beautiful compassionate person who genuinely cares for many.
Thank you so much for all of your support over the time I have been on the blog. I am going to miss you, your light and your kindness.
Keep being amazing and helping guide others on the blog, you certainly helped me in my journey.
❤️Qx
Quasi, thank you for your kind words about me. I don’t know if you’re still here or not. (I’ve been gone for a few days.) I’m sorry to see you go but certainly understand and respect your decision. I have enjoyed my interaction with you and I consider you a friend. Maybe one day I can stop in for high tea. I’ll recognize you if I see you in the UK. I’ll be looking for a gorgeous, 6ft lady with a precious personality. Take care of you and your family. They are fortunate to have you in their lives.
Hi Quasi
I’m glad that you feel good about your choice. I have a question though.
“My husband stated that he wished I had told him sooner, but he is glad I told him.”
Were you mistaken then previously when you said you tried or began to tell him and he seemed to deter you in some way? Did you just mistake or read his reaction as something else?
I ask because I had based some of what I said to you on this. Believing that he knew but did not want it to be addressed directly.
Hello NarcAngel,
Feeling good may be a stretch, He could have responded in many different ways, I was very fortunate that he is who he is, and I am hopeful that how I presented it to him helped with his understanding of leading events, and the dynamic I had with the narcissist.
I did some months ago try to start a conversation with him, I said that I needed to talk to him, that was all I said, his eyes changed focus and he immediately said, “I’m so lucky, with you and the children, I love you so much”.
That statement took the wind out of my sails and I was a coward, I did not want to continue with what I had wanted to say due to this .
This is how he responded to me saying at that time I needed to talk.
So yes I took this as him feeling something was up and potentially not wanting to hear it at that time.
I could never know his view and could only make an assumption of why he responded in this way.
Everyone will perceive what is said in the way that they see it, maybe at the time I perceived it as a deflection as I was scared to tell him and in a way was thankful that he changed the subject? Was I mistaken or read his reaction as something else – who knows ? I don’t know, it is not simple. I saw it as it presented to me at the time.
When I have shared information here I have tried to do so with honesty, and how it presented to me. How you read my words will be through your lens also, so the advise you have given me I’m guessing will be based in how you have perceived my comments and what may has sprung out to you, so I can’t really comment further on that.
The first time round I took advise and kept it to me, however over the months, we shifted apart, in many ways, it was becoming more of a stain in our relationship. It was being felt by us and I think the kids too.
So maybe this time when I said I needed to talk to him he allowed me to do so, as he knew we were drifting apart so knowing why may help?
To be honest NarcAngel I have no idea why he was now open to me telling him what happened, why he let me talk, why he let me tear myself up in front of him. Maybe this time he knew also that this truth needed to be heard to move from the dark place we had reached.
Maybe he thought it was worse and it was a fuller affair of years with multiple occasions of intimacy with the narcissist, maybe he thought I loved someone else?
He did indeed state that he wished I told him sooner, why he said this I do not know. Maybe he said this once he knew what it was ?
I’m not sure if this has answered your question or just given a load of maybes, at this point of time it is totally unknown to me as to why this time it was the right thing to do and he received it so well. I went with my gut, and chose to try and be brave in doing something my core told me was right. Beyond that who the **** knows ! It’s all relative and perception.
Hi Quasi
I should not have posed a question. I should have simply said: I previously formed a discussion with you based on that perception and I apologize if that caused you any upset or confusion if it turns out that was not the case. I also posed that question before I read the other comments about you leaving or I would not have entered into any further discussion about that situation. I wish you the very best life has to offer Quasi, and thank you for sharing of yourself and for your valued contributions to others in your time here on the blog. It has been most appreciated.
NA
NarcAngel, Our previous discussions had not caused me upset or confusion. I genuinely valued your insights and input, otherwise I would not have responded to you. As I have stated previously you are astute and can see a lot in people’s comments that may be missed by many.
I may have presented as despondent in my reply as I really did not know the answer to your question.
I had learned previously not to do gushy with you so I’m am purely doing respectful-
I respect you and I thank you for the time you have given to read my comments and respond to them. I also thank you for your kind comment about my contributions for others being appreciated.
I appreciate what I have learned from you and I will always remember you as a a central figure in my learning here.
Thank you very much.
Quasi, I am glad you feel whole and that we have been on this ‘journey’ (to use a corny term) together. You have really helped me too! xx