How the Narcissist Devalues Different Victims

How The NarcissistDevalues Different Victims


This period of the narcissistic dynamic is regarded as always being part of the dynamic and understandably the worst part of it. Those who consider it as an ever present part of the dynamic however are over-stating its presence because whether devaluation appears at all and if it does, how it will manifest, depends very much on the nature of the dynamic with our appliances.

Commencing with the Tertiary Source, most of the time our engagements with Tertiary Sources do not include any devaluation. There are two main reasons for this :-

  1. The engagement is brief. We either engage with the Tertiary Source once, for a short time and never again or we engage with them repeatedly but it is only ever brief in nature; and
  2. The needs of the façade mean that engaging with the Tertiary Source in a benign way is the most effective method of proceeding.

It is the case however that Tertiary Sources are devalued. They will be insulted, ignored, triangulated with other superior-ranking sources. This devaluation may be because the Tertiary Source has ignited our fury (for instance a bar tender failing to serve us ahead of someone else) but the devaluation may just occur because we regard it as an expedient response. For instance, we see that it would draw amusement or admiration from our friends (Non Intimate Secondary Sources) if we pour scorn on a homeless person in the street or we insult the waitress in a bar. Neither of these people will have necessarily criticised us but we consider them expendable and by devaluing them we gain negative fuel from them and positive fuel from other sources.

Any devaluation of a Tertiary Source is short in duration. It is a burst of negative fuel but it is not hugely potent (indeed the admiration from the secondary or primary source which it brings about is more potent) when compared to other sources and the quantity of fuel provided is low. This is because the Tertiary Source will not be bound to us and therefore after a period of time of responding in a manner which provides this negative fuel the Tertiary Source more often than not will dis-engage.

The period of devaluation for a Tertiary Source may be less than a minute if they provide negative fuel and then back off. Of course if they continue to engage us and provide Challenge Fuel, we will keep provoking them and also asserting our perceived superiority over them in order to put them in their place. We also of course cannot have some upstart Tertiary source making us look bad in front of other superior sources. We are unlikely to keep ‘pursuing’ the Tertiary Source. Thus, if we upbraid a waiter and he retreats to the kitchen, we are unlikely to follow him and keep the devaluation going. Instead, we take the negative fuel from his angry reaction and let him withdraw. We consider it largely beneath us to keep pressing such an individual. Of course, if the waiter returns to us, we will devalue again and keep doing so for as long as he keeps appearing in front of us.

It is unlikely that the Tertiary Source will be smeared as a consequence of this devaluation because ultimately within our fuel matrix the Tertiary Source is not of significant importance and therefore it is not worth expending the energy and time on smearing them.

We may see this Tertiary Source on another occasion and provoke them again or we may engage with them in a benign fashion. It does not matter to us how we treated them on the previous interaction because of the way we compartmentalise.

In respect of secondary sources, devaluation does occur but if and when it does, it is for a reason which is directly linked to the behaviour of the secondary source.

If someone is a non-intimate secondary source, therefore they are a family member, friend or colleague, they will usually enjoy an elongated golden period. Devaluation of the secondary source will only occur where that individual has sought to expose us, challenge us extensively or has turned off the fuel supply completely. The devaluation will be longer than that of the Tertiary Source because the secondary source will be bound more closely to us. This binding will be as a consequence of the nature of the relationship – the person is in our social circle with other people, they work with us or they are in our family circle – but also because we will have put more effort into binding them to us. Accordingly, the secondary source is less likely to withdraw in the same way that a Tertiary Source would. Instead, the secondary source is more likely to want to try to find out why they are being treated this way, to seek to make amends and to gain our favour once again. Sometimes this devaluation occurs as a consequence of needing to send a signal to other secondary sources that they ought not to cross us so that they realise it is preferable to remain loyal to us than cross us in some way.

The secondary source who is devalued is likely to be smeared by us. We will want other secondary sources of the same circle or ilk to turn against the devalued secondary source and complete their isolation and to ostracise them. We are conscious of the maintenance of the façade and therefore we will look to present a reason for why this secondary source has fallen from favour, is no longer invited, is not welcome at certain gatherings and so forth.

The period of devaluation for a secondary source varies in terms of the actual engagement and the period over which the person is regarded as ‘black’. If the secondary source wants to talk to us to find out why they are treated this way, we will keep devaluing them so this might be a matter of minutes or a couple of hours. If they remain proximate to us and keep providing negative fuel, we will keep devaluing and provoking them. If they retreat and try to engage us on another occasion, they will remain ‘black’ until they do something (or there is an external act) which causes us to regard them as ‘white’ and we welcome them to the fold again. For instance, if the secondary source seeks forgiveness and has a residual benefit we want, we will extend our graciousness to admit them into the relevant circle again. If we see no purpose, other than negative fuel, then they remain painted ‘black’ and they will be dis-engaged from and we will find a replacement for them soon enough.

In some instances the secondary source may dis-engage and have nothing more to do with us, thus a friend never socialises with us, the family member withdraws or the colleague moves workplaces or department. Sometimes they may not have such an option and instead they remain in effect a scapegoat for us, remaining ‘black’ for years and are devalued further each time there is any interaction with us. Thus, every time there is a family gathering they will be subject to contemptuous comments, triangulation or silent treatments. Of course, this long-lasting devaluation may be intermittent as we may only see this secondary source at certain events or places. Similar to the tertiary source we will rarely keep seeking out the secondary source to devalue him or her.

Where the secondary source is of an intimate variety, either an IPSS or DSIPSS, then the dynamic alters. There are two potential forms of devaluation.

The first is used as a corrective measure to bring the IPSS or DSIPSS back into line. Thus devaluation and dis-engagement is not a certainty but instead, if the IPSS or DSIPSS responds favourably to this ‘warning’ then the devaluation will halt and the golden period continues. This is because the IPSS or DSIPSS’s fuel is regarded as still valuable and not stale and devaluation is used because they are not complying as they ought to do. This corrective devaluation brings them back into line and thus the corrective devaluation halts.

The second is where the IPSS or DSIPSS does not respond to the warning and thus their failure and treachery means that he or she must now be punished as we head towards dis-engagement. The devaluation in this instance will be more intense than the corrective devaluation but it will not last for long because either the IPSS or DSIPSS stays out of our way or if they do not, we want to turn to a different IPSS or DSIPSS (or find a new one) and therefore dis-engagement comes along quickly.

Finally there is the IPPS. The Intimate Partner Primary Source is the person who suffers the longest devaluation, the harshest devaluation and is the one which is recognised by most people. This happens because

  1. You promised to be The One. Your failure to live up to our ideals mean you must be punished, we are not going to let you off the hook easily;
  2. Your negative fuel is potent, plentiful and frequent and therefore we want to keep drawing that from you;
  3. This negative fuel also provides contrast and the motivation for our seduction of your potential replacement;
  4. You are bound to us and therefore you are far less likely to withdraw from us. This binding is both emotional and non-emotional. Emotionally it arises because you want to return to the golden period, you want to make everything alright, you are a love devotee and want to have love triumph, you may well be co-dependent, you do not want to admit defeat and you are addicted to us. The non-emotional are matters such as finances, children, house, family pressures and so forth. The combination of these factors means that you cling to us and because you most likely live with us your devaluation occurs each day;
  5. We grant you Respite Periods. This takes place within the umbrella of the Devaluation Period and means that you are given renewed hope (so you stick around) and also it means your potential for becoming numbed and unresponsive is reduced by these periods which allow you to gather some strength again;
  6. The IPPS may be the only person in our fuel matrix who is being devalued and this will usually take place behind closed doors to preserve the façade so there is less likelihood of external interference which will disrupt the devaluation.

The devaluation of the IPPS is the most brutal of all the devaluations of appliances, it continues for the longest, it can be years, even decades in some instances and within this devaluation comes a whole host of manipulations and abuses which cover the emotional, the financial, the sexual and the physical.


48 thoughts on “How the Narcissist Devalues Different Victims

  1. NarcAngel says:

    Have you thought about donating some of your books to known or high-profile women’s shelters to get word of your work out? As readers we can refer people to your works by word of mouth and donate paper books that we have read, but a lot of people use ereaders so this is not possible. Shelters are where women have time to read as they are separated from their abuser and are reflecting. If paper books were made available to them there it would go a long way in identifying what they may be up against and your name and information would be shared amongst some of those who may need it most. Small price to pay for advertising. Especially if is printed on the front. Just a thought.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you for the suggestion.

  2. mollyb5 says:

    It is brutal and I rarely hear about others experienceing real devaluation on going ….they escape , or are discarded , or get out stay out . I know that is your purpose ultimately . I know most can not live with a real narc …but there are some that do for the reasons you mentioned . I don’t take it so personal because , I did escape for a few years and regained myself . There will be those that correct my spelling ….( I’m on an iPhone not a computer ) and those that agree and understand . I don’t care about the stupid spelling errors because typing with my thumbs and my old eyes is hard . I am looking for support and a real live local group to talk with …..perhaps you could instruct others how to lead such a group with you being a guest speaker and give demonstrations?

  3. mollyb5 says:

    How many actual IPPS are on this site, HG?

    I see people who have parents or old boyfriends …or dating Narcs . But rarely do I find an in going IPPS on here who asks questions of you ? Most people laugh and joke , write about how you are the greatest for sharing your wisdom . I have seen some groups but don’t know which would be most helpful . HG ..can you lead me in the right direction ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I don’t know how many, but they are there – many of my consultations are with the IPPS or former IPPS.

      1. Kellie Mccoey says:

        Shut up, really?

    2. WhoCares says:


      I am a former ipps. Do I understand you correctly that you’re looking for a support group in your area for ipps who are still in an ongoing relationship with their narcissist?

      I have wondered about starting a local narcissistic abuse support group because nothing exists here that I know of…but then I thought who would attend? People who might need the support would not attend such a group because they would likely not want to identify their current spouse as a narcissist. So I thought how would one go about putting the word out about it?

      You may want to start at the local women’s shelter and look for support groups for domestic abuse (but they might lack the insight that this site has.)

      Out of curiosity – are you currently an ipps? Or do you have questions of one who was?

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Because people value anonymity, it may be more advantageous for people to donate HG’s books to Women’s shelters. As you identify – there may be a reluctance to identify their abuser, but a book can confirm their experiences without exposing themselves (or their abusers if that affects their children for example) and they can take it at their own speed. I understand physical groups can be helpful for some but I for example would never share in a physical group what I have shared here.

        1. WhoCares says:


          I agree that anonymity is of utmost importance when feeling free – and safe – to share; this is partly why I have not engaged in support groups where I am – because I wouldn’t feel understood, because I wouldn’t feel safe sharing specific details and there’s a chance I could run into a more recent IPSS (or IPPS) of my ex.

          I agree, in my experience, that donating an actual book to a shelter is more affective in that environment because a high percentage of shelter clients may not be able access the internet or have limited (and not very private) access to a computer. ‘Community living’ in such an environment is not actually very private at all.
          I might suggest that donating books to the support staff would be more helpful as those are the individuals who would have more one on one contact with the residents of the shelter (at times when it is slow and/or a recent victim is looking for someone to talk to). Often support staff have been through something similar (in the past) but are in a more receptive frame of mind to receive the information – whereas new residents in a shelter may actually be very traumatized and not readily able to process such information (such as sexual assault victims). I’m only going into these details because I have personal experience with this. But yes, donating physical books on HG’s work is absolutely a great idea.

      2. mollyb5 says:

        AA groups have anonymity

        1. windstorm says:

          “AA groups have anonymity.”

          Maybe if you only went to meetings in another state and only one time to each group. While it’s true you only say your first name, everyone will know exactly who you are very quickly. You just can not stand up in front of the same group of people routinely and tell facts about your life and expect anonymity.

          Even if no one present repeats what you said outside the meeting, you have no control of who is present. If it’s someone who knows who you are, the temptation to tell another that they saw you is very strong.

          1. NarcAngel says:

            True. I know that AA helps people, but my Ex FiL belonged, and because of that I knew many people in my town and a few other towns that were alcoholics, and heard things about their families and personal situations that I would not have known otherwise (including someone that I worked with). Also very personal details about the person that he sponsored.

          2. windstorm says:

            Yeah. You know I loved my MIL dearly, but if she thought there was a benefit in sharing something about me or my situation, she’d tell anybody. And that was a woman who loved me and certainly loved her son. In my experience you just can’t count on anyone keeping your secrets – at least not anyone human.

          3. WhoCares says:

            Very true Windstorm.

          4. mollyb5 says:

            Windstorm ..I do understand what the reluctance may be for meeting in person in small local groups . I’ve been . There are so many in every city and every church , Private locations and yes one doesn’t need to tell deep secretive hurtful information ever ….one doesn’t have to expose themselves. Nobody judges at these groups that’s why they are successful to many. People who know alcoholism , also know drug addiction , and also know about family issues and so on …the women in alonon groups are very private and you don’t need to stand up or even talk to the group. One can wait tell the meeting is over and find a friend and reach out. They give their phone numbers and it’s not formal and if one doesn’t find anyone they can relate to at one church… then …., you try another . New people are popping in all the time . I want people on this site to know that. There are so many . I bet some may even break off and form other private groups . There is also meet-up groups. I know HG sells books and private advice and wisdom this is his domain . I know there are small intimate helpful supportive groups around me . I will make it my mission to find one . I am intuitive and know who is truly caring …it takes time.

          5. windstorm says:

            I’m glad you’re having good experiences with AA and AlAnon meetings. My experience may have been atypical because my FIL and MIL were cofounders of the first AA and AlAnon meetings in our area and instrumental in them for decades. There is no anonymity for anyone in our family. My MIL was my AlAnon sponsor and helped me tremendously, but I never was comfortable sharing anything at meetings. But then I am also very antisocial and naturally skeptical. I certainly don’t want to scare anyone away from any support group.

          6. NarcAngel says:

            Groups such as AA and Al Anon absolutely help people and are a valuable resource. I want to be clear that I am not discouraging that. I only meant to point out that as with anything, there can be many things to consider, and some of those things I listed can cause apprehension in some and may attest to the popularity of anonymous online avenues as opposed to physical groups. It was not to meant to slander or deter people from using that resource. I hope you have success in finding or fostering such a resource.

          7. mollyb5 says:

            I just want others to know …nobody really stands up . You sit around a table . Some of these people have done time ..some have committed crimes they don’t tell their story unless they want to, unless they are ready. It there for humans to reach out in real life …to show by example and support each other. A person can be quiet for as long as they want . They don’t have to share everything to everyone. A person can be selective and wait years then only pick one person they trust …if even that . Alonon —would be a good start ….people who live with / deal with or even have a child that’s an alcoholic…all these addictions over lap. Nobody has to tell personal names or information they don’t even want people to. It’s all about how you as a person let go of other people’s problems and how I as a human being need to live my own life and not dwell on the alcoholic( the addict / the narc ). … every minute ….I just want people to know that on here.

    3. 2SF says:

      Molly, I was an IPPS for 28 years. Once I heard about narcissism and ended up here I was able to finally divorce my husband. That’s what often happens I guess. Once you read everything here you can’t be an IPPS anymore. The people who do stay probably feel they have to stick with the narc, because of the children they have together, or because of lack of money, for ‘safety’ reasons or maybe they still believe they can change or heal the narcissist. I keep hanging around and reading here because if I am not reminded of everything HG writes about, I forget and my emotional thinking takes over. I will end up with another narc. People who are here for a longer time are not as devastated as they used to be and probably laugh and joke more than newcomers do.
      There are hardly any groups in real life, there are groups on the internet. You have to be aware though they do not all give the right information.

  4. Tom says:

    H G Tudor,

    Is this a common theme?

    Devalue = arguments = negative fuel
    Arguments = narcissists always wins or truce as Narc never apologises
    Victim learns to be ambivalent/unresponsive
    Relationship goes stale due to lack of fuel from victim
    Final discard when positive fuel forthcoming elsewhere

    My devaluation lasted 7 years, 1 sub-IDD cycle per year. Idealization phases didnt really exist after first one.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No. The lack of fuel or staleness causes the devaluation.

  5. Saving Grace (Grace) says:

    As the IPPS of several decades, I agree that the devaluatuon process, as H. G describes is brutal. Any shred of self esteem I had had left was annihilated with continuous disrespectful and condescending remarks and mind games and manipulations. He hid it behind closed doors so well that many people had a hard time believing that he could be anything but a wonderful great guy. A saint. Even my (then) young adult children did not know the extent of his toxic behavior towards me that had taken place for many years in our family home.
    So if this is your present situation then know that there are those of us out there who understand what you are experiencing. You are not crazy, unlovable or worthless like you have been labeled (among other descriptions).
    When you get away to a healthier place with a good support system, then the fog clears little by little as you take it one step at a time. Just be wary of your supporters who could also be narcissists like in my situation which slowed down the healing.
    Knowledge through education, answered prayers, and people who are normal loving, and supportive became my saving grace.
    Finding my joy, value, and sense of humor have helped me evolve and discover my real identity.
    I hope you soon find your way out of the cold, dark pit of narcissistic abuse, especially devaluation, and go no or low contact and begin discovering the warm, sunny days ahead and the beauty that is you!
    Hugs and healing.

  6. Findinglife11 says:


  7. lisk says:

    O, to be a Tertiary Source rather than an IPPS!

    1. Jenna says:

      I agree with you. Stay tertiary and we will be safe.

  8. 0316 says:

    After reading through I think I have been in an on and off again relationship with a narcissist. Things have ultimately been going well lately, but then the switch. The other night he ignored me in public and then later apologized saying he was so upset bc his uncle just died. He wanted me to come over. So, in the middle of the night I walked to his house (5 minutes from mine) and when I got there he stopped responding to me. His roommate and friends, who don’t like me (i can assume from previous triangulating) came to the door, but he refused to even come out of his room or acknowledge me. At this point, I kind of look like the crazy ex-girlfriend, just showing up in the middle of the night, feeling pretty small, completely rejected and humiliated. I called several times on my way home (likely that negative fuel he wanted, right?) Now, I’m being labeled insensitive for being angry with him after his uncle just died. I’m not a good enough support and it’s always about me … I really just want clarity that these are all narcissist tactics, so I can move forward with a specific plan to really end the relationship for good. I’m tired of him always getting me back and I wind up losing.

    1. K says:

      You are dealing with a narcissist and you need to GOSO (get out, stay out) and go no contact (NC).

      Start with this article:

      There is a search function on the upper right, type: golden rules of freedom in the search bar and read all those articles. And then type: hoover into the bar and read those articles, too.

    2. 2SF says:

      0316, like K says, he is definitely a narc. Get rid of this man a.s.a.p. He is messing with your brain, your dignity, your self-confidence. Don’t buy anymore his apologies, they are totally fake. Wanting you to come over and then refuse to talk to you? Make you look crazy? Blame you?
      Honestly that is co narcissistic. Please 0316, do yourself a favor, get the man out of your life for good and be relaxed and happy again.
      Take care 0316, your life will be so much better without this narcissist. xx

      1. K says:

        He is definitely a narcissist. 0316’s comment had so many elements of the narcissistic dynamic.

        1. Things are going well then the switch (volte face), he ignores her in public (she is painted black and devalued for contrast).
        2. He issues an apology (false contrition) using a pity play and blame shift (my uncle died) a manipulation to keep her in situ and providing fuel.
        3. She is invited to come over and is greeted by his Coterie and receives a silent treatment (control to provoke a negative reaction and assert superiority).
        4. She looks unhinged (the crazy one) and leaves.
        5. She feels upset, rejected, humiliated and confused by this push and pull behavoir because from her perspective it makes no sense whatsoever (toxic logic; blows hot and cold).
        6. She is confused and remains in situ providing fuel (her upset and phone calls). He is in control and this reinforces his need for self-worth.
        7. She is labeled insensitive and unsupportive (projection, blame-shifting and smearing). She let him down; it is all her fault and she needs to be punished.

        Her comment was a plethora of narcissistic abuse.

        1. 2SF says:

          Thank you K. You say it so much better than I did. If you weren’t already documentation specialist here, I’d ask you if you would be my secretary 😉 xx

          1. K says:

            My pleasure 2SF
            And thank you!

  9. J.G says:

    Hello, H.G. Tudor.

    The positive fuel of the primary source, is enrancia because it becomes monotonous for the narcissist and you get bored of this, the fuel decays and begins the extraction of the negative fuel with its devaluation…..
    It opened some way so that the positive fuel did not get rancid?

    I know that this point does not interest you, because you get fuel everywhere and the negative is much more powerful.
    But do you think this would be possible?
    And if so, how could you do ?
    And I suppose it involves a waste of energy and effort on your part that you did not sew, necessary…
    If it could be done, there would be no narcissistic/codependent problem.

    Another question…

    You narcissists are not empathic, or you have low levels of feelings especially negative hate, evil, jealousy, envy, negative traits. But you don’t feel love, happiness, affection etc….
    But do you have sexual attraction towards the victims or are you only attracted by the fuel? We move by sexual attraction.
    And you by attraction to the two things fuel / sexual
    Or you don’t even have sexual attraction… or you just dock for the fuel…
    Do you have sexual attraction?
    Or is it just an attraction to fuel?
    I’ve read your book Sex and you talk about what attracts you more fuel, more than sex. But I was wondering if there is sexual tension with the victim or is this also an illusion? or is it just for fuel and anyone who is a giver of this type of fuel is worth …

    1. J.G says:

      The first assumption is a silly question…
      Because the low and middle ranks do not know of their psychopathy. and therefore as they can pose that they have a problem. Or that there is even a problem.
      In the elite, I suppose so, but that would nullify them as individuals and their way of being, being superior and with rights. On the other hand it would mean going against their nature, wasting unnecessary energy that they are not willing to waste.

      The second question I cannot answer… I think it’s just fuel, but not for sure… You can help me with this dilemma.

    2. K says:

      These comments may be helpful.

      HG Tudor
      AUGUST 5, 2018 AT 11:10
      There is infatuation and the power from the fuel.

      HG Tudor
      NOVEMBER 18, 2018 AT 11:16
      We do not love in the way you do, we “love” your fuel, not you per se.

      MLA – Clarece
      DECEMBER 9, 2016 AT 11:07
      Has there ever been anyone who provided you with outstanding fuel and you didn’t have to engage in the sexual element? If so, was that a relief? In Sex and the Narcissist you wrote that sex is used because it is the most powerful binding tool. But it’s just like masturbation with a warm body. So if you could be off the hook with that, is it a plus?

      HG Tudor
      FEBRUARY 28, 2017 AT 22:27
      There have been some NISS who have in the instant provided very good fuel but it is not of the standard of the IPPS over time. Sex is physically enjoyable but that is not the ultimate use of it, it is the power it wields and therefore it is not something that I abhor, but it is the intimacy which comes with it (admittedly not always and then that is a relief) which is the issue. Thus, during seduction, the need to seduce and the positive fuel overrides the general discomfort with intimacy. Once that has been achieved, there is no need to overcome this aversion and hence this is why we behave as we do during devaluation, rejecting intimacy and instead engaging in mechanical sexual behaviours.

      1. Jenna says:

        K and JG,

        Thank you K for the information. I had similar questions as JG- whether there is sexual attraction at all since it is all about fuel.

        But I have always wondered why there is a ‘general discomfort with intimacy’ (see above by hg tudor).
        Why is it that narcs feel discomfort with intimacy? Because you don’t feel attached, love, happiness? So what? Alot of normals and empaths don’t feel happiness and attachment all the time either. Yet we don’t fear intimacy. What is it that makes the narc fear intimacy? Do narcs actually ‘fear’ intimacy or ‘abhor’ intimacy?

        1. K says:

          I think the intimacy is unwelcome because it makes them feel vulnerable and weakness cannot be tolerated. They must be in control at all times and any threat to that control must be avoided at all costs.

          SEPTEMBER 15, 2017 AT 00:17
          ” It happened once and was a terrible outcome, therefore we will admit nobody thereafter.”
          When did it happen and what was the outcome HG?

          HG Tudor
          SEPTEMBER 15, 2017 AT 01:58
          Some time ago. Me.

          Read the thread on LoveSex their is more about intimacy there.

          1. jenna says:


            Thank you. I didn’t ask hg these questions because I knew you could answer them and I didnt want to bother hg since he might have hundreds of comments to moderate.
            “It happened once and was a terrible outcome, therefore we will admit nobody thereafter.” I think I know what he’s referring to, but not certain. So very sad.

          2. K says:

            I think of the betrayal he experienced as a child. His MatriNarc abused him very badly and his father didn’t protect him. He was a defenseless and fragile soul whose light was stolen by the people who should have loved and protected him the most and they failed. It is a profound loss and he is entitled to his hatred and his malice.

          3. Jenna says:

            Hi K,

            Thank you. It is definitely a profound loss but I don’t know if I feel that he is entitled to his malice (against anyone other than those who have wronged him). I have stated in previous posts that I believe in the concept of free will, and I believe that little HG made a conscious decision, when he was able, to choose wrong over right (ie. the power his uncle had vs empathy). This is my opinion. Yet, it is still saddening to me, as it is to you. We feel for him K!

          4. K says:

            You are welcome Jenna
            I understand how you feel, however, try to keep in mind that children are not born with a moral compass, a set of ethics or a conscience. They are, in essence, little psychopaths (I am using that word very loosely here) who are trying to figure out how to survive in their world. And, ideally, when a child grows up in a stable and loving home, they develop a moral compass and a conscience.

            Little HG made no conscious decision in how he was created, that decision was made by his parents (environment/he was done to) and genetics. His mother and father created his personality, just like my mother and father created mine and I imagine when my 5-year old twin was getting the shit beat out of him by my father, while my mother stood by and did nothing, that he didn’t make a decision to choose to become a narcissist; his tiny fragile brain wired itself so he could survive his brutal childhood abuse at the hands of my parents. He had no choice; he had to survive. He was a beautiful little boy who did the best that he could do given the circumstances and what my parents did to him was unforgivable.

            Our behaviour is context driven; instinct. There is no free will. When you have the chance, read: Free Will by Sam Harris so you can understand how human behaviour works.

          5. NarcAngel says:

            Thinking of both your little brother enduring that and you witnessing it put my stomach on a slow simmer. Its a mixture of anger and pain and I want to strike out at someone (who deserves it). I’m so sorry there was no one there for you both. I am so proud that you held on to your decency and kindness towards others when you were not shown it and you should be as well. That is true strength and you are a remarkable human being.


          6. K says:

            Thank you for your kind words and understanding. I feel that same slow simmer and pain and I, too, want to lash out and punish those who are responsible. No one protected us from our parents so this is a case where genetics played out.

            HG wrote in Do Narcs Know What They Are Doing- The Midranger
            – because he or she has not developed other coping mechanisms which non-narcissists have, to navigate a path through life. The operation of this is instinctive.

            You and I are not wired to be narcissists so we were able to hold onto our decency and kindness but those coping skills were denied to my twin (and all narcs), through no fault of his (their) own and that is truly sad.

            The more I read, the more I understand and I can set aside the ET (emotional thinking) and look at it logically and it all makes perfect sense.

        2. K says:

          You are welcome Jenna.

      2. Sweetest Perfection says:

        K, you truly are the archivist of the Library of Babel! Prodigious memory.

        1. K says:

          Ha ha ha…thank you for your kind words Sweetest Perfection!

      3. Sweetest Perfection says:

        K, thanks to you for always directing us to the relevant info.

  10. Kathy says:

    I remember my husband (soon not to be) would seem to “hide” all facets of his work life. We had a mutual friend that shared some details with me as they are in the same industry and I mentioned to my spouse things I’d learned. He totally cast away his professional relationship with this gentleman to a baffling degree. I’m sure he smeared him. Now I know he had painted the guy black. But why the need to compartmentalize? Work isn’t very interesting frankly.. It was like he couldn’t deal with me knowing of his professional business dealings. He would also never take pictures I framed of the kids for him to work. They are lovely kids. (I’m not biased—I do not have unattractive kids.. Just so freaking weird.)

    1. K says:

      You may find this comment helpful and I recommend reading the article/thread, as well. Your husband needed to maintain control and it looks like he relied heavily on compartmentalization to achieve this. His refusal to take the framed pictures of the children to work is a manifestation of this control, thereby, drawing fuel from your upset/confusion and asserting superiority.

      HG Tudor
      NOVEMBER 18, 2018 AT 19:17
      Yes. Lessers do not have large fuel matrices (generally) therefore there is less to compartmentalise and their lack of façade management means it is less of a concern. Greaters have larger fuel matrices but have the ability to ease passage smoothly where certain worlds collide owing to ability. Mid Rangers have reasonable-sized fuel matrices but their passive aggressive cowardly nature and reliance of façade means that compartmentalisation is of particular importance to them and is thus an instinctive significant part of the their Devil’s Toolkit.

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