LoveSex Addiction


In many instances there is often the lament following discard (and even escape) that although your experience with our kind was horrendous beyond measure the sex was out of this world. You miss the sex to an incredible degree. The sex was mind-blowing, intense, hugely satisfying and unlike anything else you have known. Now I know this is not always the case, there are some of our kind who are not interested in sex and some who are useless at it and in those instances you have more than likely been ensnared by a Victim Narcissist. That is not the topic of discussion today. Today we focus on those of our kind who are the sexual Olympian who thrilled and delighted you between the sheets (and plenty of other places too). One of the reasons our kind uses sex as a weapon is because of the addictive quality that we create around the sexual experience you have with us. Why is sex with us so addictive? There are actually several reasons, but the one I wish to focus on today is the concept of LoveSex. This is the link between Love and Sex.

We do not dissuade you from making such a link. In fact we positively encourage you to do this. The way that we seduce you and the way that we love bomb you is designed to inject love into sex so that they effectively become indistinguishable from one another. We are fully aware that irrespective of how self-sufficient you may like to think that you are, how independently you might lead your life, you still have that desire for the white knight. Again, this relates to the way that you have been conditioned by society to regard love and romance. We know about this and exploit this. An honest examination of your thoughts and feelings will result in your admitting that at least on one occasion you have wanted that dashing knight to come riding in on his charger, sweep you in his arms and then take you through to the bedroom where he makes tender and delicious love to you. You have been conditioned to expect to be treated like a princess and we do this when we place you on that pedestal during our love bombing of you. Sex is no different. You want to be taken care of in the bedroom, loved and made to feel special. By providing all of this when we have sex with you then we are blurring the lines between sex and love, binding the two together. Since we are so magnificent in our delivery of delicious and rewarding sex then this entwined sex and love causes you to feel a very special kind of love, better than anything else you have experienced before. We apply all of the loving techniques when we have sex with you. The tender, romantic, slow and caring way we caress and hold you before easing into you all accords with this almost dream-like perception of how sex should be. We do however go further than this traditional model of the handsome prince making sweet, delicate love to his beautiful princess. When we suddenly take you from behind, hitch up your skirt and bend you over a worktop or the back of the settee and have vigorous sex with you we will look to ensure that this type of sex is entwined with love. How do we do this? With words of course. Words come easily to us and are cheap to use. So as we are hammering away and you are admittedly enjoying this spontaneous and energetic sex we will be telling you things such as:-

“I just had to have you. You were stood there and I was overwhelmed with love for you.”

“I love you so much I needed to have you there and then.”

“You do something to me that makes me almost lose control. That is how much I love you.”

“I am so in love with you I just needed to be inside you.”

“You make me crazy in love, I cannot help myself.”

We reinforce this urgent sex with being linked to just how powerful and amazing our love is. The sex itself feels fantastic and when you hear those magical words being said to you from behind the two are melded together. The sex could not be regarded as romantic but that does not matter. Such rampant desire for you to be taken in this manner can only be a symptom of our love for you. This reinforcement will happen over and over again. From the obvious slow, tender love-making through to the quick knee-trembler on a table through to you fellating us in a parked car, we will cause you to associate all of these sexual acts as being manifestations of our truly remarkable love. Eventually, the word sex becomes eroded and every time we do something which is sexual in nature it is seen as love. Everything we do together in the sexual arena is born of love, is because of love and is a manifestation of love.

You are unable to resist this blurring of the boundaries between love and sex. You are not able to prevent sex actually subsuming the notion of love and cloaking itself in the name of love. This lack of resistance happens for two reasons. Firstly, the nature of our sexual couplings with you is so intense and enjoyable you want them and you want them repeatedly. Secondly, aside from the use of sex as a weapon, during the seduction stage you are being love bombed on lots of different fronts. We are saying beautiful things to you, writing you poems and love letters, buying you gifts, taking you to special places, looking after you when you feel ill, introducing you to our friends and so on. This onslaught of loving behaviour magnifies what we are doing on the sexual side. You are surrounded by loving behaviour so that it permeates into everything that we do with you, including sex. Accordingly, over time sex and love become bound up together. The great sex we provide to you translates as the marvellous love that we have for you. Sex is love, love is sex and it feels amazing causing you to become addicted to the sensation. We create lovesex and it is a powerful way of creating an addiction in you.

Listen to ‘LoveSex Addiction’

159 thoughts on “LoveSex Addiction

  1. Honey Bee says:


    You are probably right, your narcissist and I would never be lovers. Are you an IPPS to him? Was he always like this? What has he done to deserve you?
    I was amused by your reluctance. Like HG I thought you meant the content of the demand and not the way it was delivered to you.
    By stating that I demand I did not mean to imply that I would ever order someone around in the bedroom. I’m not a dominatrix, but I’m no sub either. If a sexual act is demanded in a disrespectful way I will not comply.

    I am reading SATN at the moment and it undoubtedly describes part of what my narcissist must have thought and felt, although I also see differences.
    My narc has never been disrespectful in the bedroom and he never ordered me around. I remember giving him a very slow and sensual lubricated handjob once (that I initiated) and although he preferred speeding things up I told him he wasn’t allowed to join in or take over. I repeatedly had to (playfully) push his hand away. I was the one deciding pace and pressure. And eventually he let me.

    I am sure my narcissist uses sex as a means to an end (like narcissists do), but having sex also comes at a price for him. It wasn’t exactly emotionally neutral territory like it seems to be to HG. I think that accounts for the differences in the bedroom and I even think there was some level of intimacy because of that.
    I don’t really know how to assess this narc-with-a-twist-kind-of-intimacy and I’m not sure if you, HG, would be able to explain feelings you yourself do not experience. I need a narcissist who isn’t feigning feelings and who’s able to put himself in someone else shoes to explain this to me. A narcissist with empathy. An oxymoron, I know….

    I don’t think there is one all-encompassing truth when it comes to narcissists and how each and everyone of them experiences sex, But I think, HG, your teachings come really close to that truth.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you HB.

    2. Sighofrelieff says:

      Okay and okay.

  2. Sighofrelieff says:

    Honey Bee

    You could demand all you want…but you wouldn’t get far with him…he calls the shots. He’s in control. I don’t know maybe I’m wrong. He may view any demand you make as an attempt to dominate the situation. I don’t see him in that picture for some reason. You would never be lovers.

  3. Sighofrelieff says:

    Oh yeah..,.i just remembered something. When I mentioned to him we shouldn’t have too much sex together or maybe not even any while still getting to know each other….because I didn’t want us to just use each other for sex and that was something I wanted to avoid. Anyways I didn’t want that to be our only connection and I didn’t want just a sexual relationship. I wanted to see if we would work and become partners in life and relationship and if the relationship advanced then it would be fine…but I just wanted to avoid being used that way if possible as I wanted something real. I wasn’t desiring a friends with benefits but wanted the real deal. Anyways after me explaining all of this to him…he kinda go upset and said that he did not want to exclude sex and that he does want me for more then that but that he did not want to stop doing that. So I guess sex was important to him because I was offering to not do it for awhile and he didn’t like that idea. I had also told him that if sex was all he was wanting that he could save his money and effort and just stay in his country and sleep with prostitutes or random women there. I told him it would be more economical as he was spending money on flights and 5 hour plane trips. He said…noooo that is not all he wanted from us and that he was serious and wanted long term. Anyways….yeah I just remembered that.

  4. Sighofrelieff says:

    . I get the prompts of, what would you say when I do this or if I do that. What would you do? What would you say?

    I was going to add to what you said MB…orrrrr being commanded exactly what to say. Like a script indeed.

    Do this!
    Say this!
    Get in this position!
    Call me this!
    I want to do this to you!
    Are you sure it scares you? Or does it turn you on?

    Yeah….very mechanical and he’s the boss and I can’t do anything but what he tells me too!
    Try to reach out my arms and spontaneously place them on the top of his shoulders and pull him close to kiss him and he breaks open my arms off of him and pushes me away with a look of angry disgust and then begins commanding me to do what he wants NOW! He stops and starts whatever he wants or doesn’t want. He calls all of the shots and stays a step ahead of me. With me I just waited for the next command nothing spontaneous not even the conversation. He lead everything in our interactions. He absolutely would not allow me to he spontaneous or the instigator.

    1. Sighofrelieff says:

      Or here’s a good one….. ⚠️ this next comment is for mature audiences only… the middle of a sexual interaction he stops me…..kiss me! He commands….I want you to taste yourself….! I’m sure he enjoyed the look of awe and shock on my face as I reluctantly did what he had just commanded.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Why the reluctance?

        1. Sighofrelieff says:

          Haha…well I know you are probably asking that just to be funny. I guess because I was really wanting true intimacy and all he was interested in was just sex and why not just grab me and pull me to him and kiss me? Why issue the command and then explain the reason….why not just do it. I don’t know it all just seemed too mechanical and unnatural flowing to me. He was so damn bossy! I guess it distracted me. I’m not good in a distracted state. Anyways.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you for expanding and I understand now your reluctance – it was reluctance to the manner as opposed to what it was that he wanted you to do (I had assumed the latter).

      2. Honey Bee says:

        WTF? No one commands me…

        I demand to be kissed in the middle of receiving oral sex. I love the taste and scent of me … I find it highly arousing and no one has ever denied me that (or any other) pleasure. Not even the narcissist. Also really appreciate it when it is reciprocated.
        But maybe that is too much information?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Not at all.

          1. MB says:

            My narc always includes the kissing during oral too! I thought it must be something most women are uncomfortable with so he wanted to gauge my reaction. I’ve never been with but one partner. Hell, what do I know? It’s not real anyway. We’re on the phone. I’ll play. Whatever trips your trigger buddy. I’ll try anything once. Ten times if I like it!

        2. Sweetest Perfection says:

          Honey Bee, I always say everything’s welcome in sex as long as there’s consent. Good for you for getting what you enjoy.

    2. Sweetest Perfection says:

      He came one day wearing parties. Which is OK to me, I wear them too. I think he tries to compete with me in everything: intellectually, physically, and when I told him I am sexually fluid I think he wanted to be more gay than me. He was disappointed I didn’t even pay attention. Sorry about the anecdote, I thought it would be fun to enter the thread with a bang…

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        HG, I love this Oscar Wilde quote you included at the intro of SATN: “Everything in the world is about sex except sec. Sex is about power.” So true. And it fits the motivation of your kind so perfectly. I also think Oscar Wilde himself was a narc, or knew a lot about your kind. I used to say my narc was Dorian Gray: beautiful outside, rotten inside.

        1. HG Tudor says:


          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Oops, I have a typo, poor Wilde and his quote.

      2. MB says:

        SP, I’d have a difficult time removing a man’s panties before sex! I’m just sayin’ Each to his own though.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Well make him take the panties off then. Although I think it more fun to make him put them on.

          1. MB says:

            NA, I just can’t get excited about a man in panties. Complete turn off for me. Whatever turns your crank. It’s all good!

          2. NarcAngel says:

            Its not always the excitement of seeing a man in panties that turns ones crank. It can be the complete devotion and compliance shown or the control of their pleasure. Yes, their pleasure. It is not always about humiliation – it works both ways.

          3. MB says:

            NA, you are the sexpert. (Second to HG aka Rockstar of course!)

            I’m just saying, if my husband ever dons my panties for sexy time, I’m filing for a divorce!

          4. NarcAngel says:

            I am no sexpert. I don’t think anyone that claims to be should be taken seriously. To me – that would be as ridiculous as claiming you are an expert on love, which is different to everyone and that most struggle to define. I know you are only joking, but it’s something I’ve thought about.

          5. MB says:

            NA, yes I was kidding. But I do look up to you in that arena as certainly being more knowledgeable and experienced than I. That’s what big sisters are for, right?

            I get what you mean. What may be earth-shattering for some, may be just meh for another or even a turn off. It goes back to perception which has been a super hot topic on the blog today.

          6. Sweetest Perfection says:

            MB, NA, and anyone interested: you could dress this man as a Teletubbie and he would still be hot. So the panties are just minutiae. I was just saying that, if he tried to get a reaction from me, he failed.

          7. Mercy says:

            Narc Angle, “the control of their pleasure. Yes, their pleasure”. I just realized when you said this that the submissive side of me during sex is actually my way of controlling his pleasure.

          8. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Both are fun. What is not fun is to think they may not be his, but his IPPS’s. That thought haunted me for a while…

          9. NarcAngel says:

            Sweet P
            That would not bother me (in a bad way lol).

          10. Sweetest Perfection says:

            In what bad way, NA? Forget the good way, I just want to know the bad one.

      3. Leanne 🌼 says:

        Sweet P,

        My were the same. I think it is natural reaction for the narcissist. “One-up-manship”

        The last one did the whole tasting thing too, with a twist.. weird how similar they all are, their traits, mannerisms, expressions, habits, and on and on

        1. NarcAngel says:

          “weird how similar they all are, their traits, mannerisms, expressions, habits, and on and on”

          Perhaps the same could be said of us?

          1. Leanne 🌼 says:

            Oh yes, absolutely narc angel! We are a bunch of peas in a pod. Actually one of my favorite aspects of the blog. It’s so enlightening to read all the comments and views. Helps me understand myself. It’s an innovative, informative blog, with a charming host, and kind, caring, sympathetic, EMPATHETIC, lovely people, sharing and healing together. Xx

            It’s a narcoleptic Disneyland

        2. Sweetest Perfection says:

          Oh Leanne, we wanna know more. What was the twist? Do tell! It’s all in the name of science, you know…

          1. Leanne 😎 says:

            Sweet P,

            “In the name of science”.. haha. Biology, maybe.
            I’ll leave it to hg, if this is ok to post..

            Most of my last relationship was long distance, (until he moved in) so there was alot of phone sex and things. Note: Sometimes I taste myself when I cum. He got a big kick out of that, brought it up often, and eventually mentioned that he would like to taste himself too.. but not with his hands, he wanted to use my mouth.

            … the twist

          2. Honey Bee says:


            Sometimes I taste myself when I cum. He got a big kick out of that, brought it up often, and eventually mentioned that he would like to taste himself too. but not with his hands, he wanted to use my mouth.

            That was exactly what I meant when I said I also really appreciate it when it is reciprocated.
            I am convinced every man has tasted his own cum at least once. So I asked “my narc” if he ever tasted himself and he said yes, he had. I’m pretty sure that was a truthful answer.

    3. K says:

      Your comment reminded me of the song Coin Operated Boy by The Dresden Dolls.

      Coin operated boy, sitting on the shelf
      He is just a toy but I turn him on and he comes to life
      Automatic joy that is why I want
      A coin operated boy

      1. Sighofrelieff says:


    4. MB says:

      SOR, I’ve never been with him physically but I can say this with stern resolve: if an encounter were as you described, it would be the LAST time he tasted my fuel. If it ain’t fun, MB will pick up her toys and go play in somebody else’s sandbox. I ain’t doing it!

      1. Sighofrelieff says:


        You are funny!!!🤣 cracking me up! Well that’s a good motto to live by. If it ain’t fun…I ain’t doing it! Lol the toy box 🧸 senario is cute by the way. I pictured you as a child standing up in the mean boys toy box and throwing down your shovel with a pouty look on your face….saying….”I ain’t doing it”…

        1. MB says:

          I like to make people laugh SOR! I’m glad you pictured the silly message I was conveying and didn’t read anything into it. I don’t do mean boys! Ha ha

    5. Joanne says:

      Oh lord no. That is way too much of a scripted performance!

      1. Sighofrelieff says:

        Bahahahaha…,,tell me about it! Too much! There way more but im not going to share it hahahahaha! 😂

      2. Sighofrelieff says:


        No you are funny and cute a lot of times. You always come across in a respectful manner and sometimes comical. That’s funny…”I don’t do mean boys”…..that’s cute. Sad thing is I didn’t know he was mean until he already got me hooked….but I should have gotten right up out of that arseholes toy box 🧸 and threw down my shovel and said….bye bye! Haha….wonder what he would have done if I just left his Arse in the middle of it.

        1. MB says:

          SOR, unless I was in physical pain or danger, I wouldn’t be able to end it in the moment and leave his ass there as you said. I am too polite which is such a dumb thing to say, but it’s true. It would be awkward and I wouldn’t want to hurt his feelings! I am terrible at asserting myself or my boundaries in the moment. I’d be all cool and not rock the boat. But I can assure you, he wouldn’t be experiencing sexy time with me EVER AGAIN once I was on my way. Hope he enjoyed it. MB out!

  5. sighofrelieff says:

    Not kids….kiss ….typo

  6. sighofrelieff says:

    Although I will add that there was absolutely no intimacy whatsoever in our sex or our kids or even holding. I felt nothing and I think that was because he was not an intimate type person. It was very mechanical and he avoided eye contact with me during it. I felt he was so awkward in that way. This wasn’t our only in person contact…there were others and I never felt warmth from him in any of them. He did hold my hand as we walked together and little sentiments here and there…giving me coins from his country and the gifts etc. there was no electricity in our touch or kiss. I remember feeling extreme confusion from this discovery….as I was so crazy about him on the phone in between visits that I would imagine me running and jumping into his arms in the airport and wrapping my legs around him and us falling to the ground!!! Hahahaha….but yeah it didn’t translate like that into person any of the times we were in person. Such a let down. I could have sworn I felt it though or sensed it…but it just wasn’t there. I can’t speak for him. We never discussed it.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      Sex starts for many in the brain and narcs are very good at using that to their advantage. It’s hard to imagine and confusing for the target when the narc can’t deliver in person. That’s why they worship the online. It’s like Skip The Dishes for sex. They just call up and don’t have to dress or leave their home to be delivered their fuel. Facebook, Instagram, and Whats App may as well be named Pass The Pump. Thats what it’s likely labelled as in the narc’s contact list.

      1. sighofrelieff says:

        Yes…I see what you are saying. Strangely though it was the N who tried to rush us meeting. I was content to wait even longer before meeting. He was the one who would always say….you know…we have to meet! I would say…yes I know. Yeah that’s interesting. It’s more like he didn’t have intimacy in person. He had sex. Also he wasn’t the same in person AT ALL! Not just sexually…but almost in any way. I spent the last half of that relationship in denial and shock. No lie!

      2. Presque Vu says:

        Pass the pump 🤣👏🏻 That is hilarious NA!!

  7. Joanne says:

    Once the golden period was over and the sweet, romantic and affectionate person was replaced by the real person – he did spend some time bragging about his sexual abilities and made a real effort to explain how he could “last” forever and how his partner’s pleasure was more important than his own. Also that his objective is always to make sure each session is more intense than the last. The wording was more descriptive but the point being that even then, I could see that sex was not about intimacy to him, it was a challenge of sorts and a further effort to get his partner within his control. Not a turn on.

    THANK GOD we did not have sex. Recovering from this is hard enough, let alone if I had allowed myself to be intimate with someone who would be using the act solely as a means to manipulate.

    1. sighofrelieff says:

      So you never had sex with him? That’s some serious self control….for you to get away without having done that. Especially if he was as you say mine was in a few comments up. If you don’t mind me asking….was he long distance from you? How long did your entanglement with him last? I actually made mine wait 3 months before actually meeting me for the first time in person. We talked and texted for three months before I would agree to meet him. He was long distance from me so it was easy to do that. Although the way we were talking if it would have worked we wouldn’t have remained long distance for long….as he was already discussing moving and the lawyer he would use to bring about my citizenship in his country. Immigration lawyers. Anyways lol….his country was right on top of mine so it wouldn’t have been too far a stretch…but yeah.

      1. Joanne says:

        Entanglement – perfect title. Mine certainly wasn’t a relationship. To be clear, it was an affair, I am married 🙁 I’ve known this narc almost all my life and we connected on Facebook. He flirted with me on and off over messages for a over a year before asking me to meet up. The romantic “entanglement” lasted about 2 months. 6 weeks was intense love bombing, constant messages, texts, praise, affection, future faking, etc. We only had 3 dates over that time. On one occasion I was very forward and he somewhat rejected my advance. We were not long distance, it’s just my marriage that got in the way of our seeing one another 🙁 I’m not proud of this – I know this was a huge mistake. It’s been 2 months since I’ve seen him in person. We’ve exchanged texts here and there. I think I’m on the shelf, or maybe he sees me as just a friend now – I really don’t know. I was a complete mess when he went cold on me, though. I was really swept away by the love bombing. If it were more physical, I might have lost my mind completely.

        1. sighofrelieff says:

          Oh…I’m sorry you went through that. 😞 I’m glad you didn’t lose your mind. Been there felt that before. Hated it!!! I am curious though….wonder why when you made an advance towards him physically that he then retreated. So odd! I mean you would think that’s what the damn idiot wanted after love bombing you and wooing you for a solid year. So weird. I mean it’s good you didn’t cheat on your husband with him…glad of that. Just doesn’t make sense. HG can you make any sense out of it? I mean he seemingly worked so hard to get you there. Hmm 🤔 again I am glad you didn’t have sex with him not him with you but odd. Sure you felt an intense amount of rejection and I’m sure that fed the obsession after he ghosted you. What a mind f@*}+#*#er! You know I wonder if he hated you and just wanted to hurt you. You said you knew him all of your life. Have you ever upset him or turned him away or anything that would make him seek some kind of revenge. “Faggot”! Not you…him! 😠

          1. Joanne says:

            I left out a critical part of the story. After a lot of kissing, I began making moves at his waistband. He would shift and then finally tried to get inside mine. I was not prepared to have sex but I was willing to do “other things” (to him). HG and I consulted on this and he said the reason he resisted my advance is because he was not going to give me that power. So by allowing me to do things to him, he would be transfering power to me which would not be allowed. HG also suggested awkwardness of intimacy which now makes sense. It was extremely confusing at the time but it is so clear now! Since that encounter we had a message exchange that somehow led to his sexual abilities and how his goal is to please his partner and how his pleasure is not the focus and while that may sound enticing coming from a non disordered guy, the entire time I was aligning his words with SATN. And it all makes sense. It’s all about power and fuel. Understanding this has taken the weight of rejection off of me entirely, and has poured ice cold water on the fantasy. If you haven’t read it, I strongly recommend! ❤️

          2. sighofrelieff says:

            Yes I am definitely going to read that book.

          3. sighofrelieff says:

            The control thing with these guys or any person….really gets on my nerves. I mean being so controlling that another person cannot be natural around them or even act spontaneous and make a move…highly annoying! It takes away freedom of a person to express themselves authentically and add their own personality and touch to the relationship or interaction. I mean in that case just get you one of those life slut dolls that look real and can be manipulated to do whatever and have no personality and no brain. See I think a part of what makes an interaction or relationship so awesome is the coming together of two separate personalities to interact spontaneously….that’s the fun of it for me.

          4. Joanne says:

            Yes, of course! The beauty of intimacy is the fluidity and the spontaneity of it all! During that encounter – after he was resisting my advance, the whole thing started feeling awkward. NOW I see that this was because we both “broke character.” Only at the time, I didn’t realize we were performing off a script. I left there feeling strange and then even worse later on when he acted different. It’s for the best, at least I understand and can accept that now.

          5. NarcAngel says:

            I wish every woman intimately involved with a narcissist would read Sex And The Narcissist. Not only does it explain the narcissist’s view of sex, it addresses the involvement or role of the target (as viewed by the narcissist). It is excellently demonstrated in the book how it is merely a means of extracting the fuel, and once the reader can accept that, it can help to remove any feelings of rejection or inadequacy they may have. It has nothing to do with appearance, performance, or attentiveness of the target, and although that may be initially disheartening, it can help with moving from purely emotional thinking to logic, and on to freedom.

          6. HG Tudor says:


          7. Sweetest Perfection says:

            You are right, NA. I noticed from the beginning of our entanglement that things were not normal -in my definition of normal- when he started talking sex immediately and then proceeded to tell me we could not get physical for fear of deepening our existing connection. HG explains the control mechanisms extremely well, I just was joking about my narc being all talk and no action when we finally were alone. Now I see that all he wanted was to keep me hooked online, and that wouldn’t work for me because I’m very passionate and affectionate and I wanted contact, very likely I was getting on his nerves. But I never felt rejected or inadequate, he always made me feel sexy and beautiful. I guess I never made it to see the B side. I’ve repeated this many times, but HG’s books saved me from all that nasty side, and for that, I will always be grateful. I also try to understand instead of judge now. It’s hard because the way narcs act is hurtful and mean, but I know from my own experience what it is having to explain to others that you are not broken or crazy, you just perceive things in a different manner.

          8. MB says:

            Absolutely NA! I would only add (and man). Every woman and man who has been intimately involved with a narcissist.

          9. NarcAngel says:

            An important correction MB so thank you. I was reading a womans post at the time, and that is a very bad habit to say only women as I know there are many men entangled also. My apologies to them.

          10. MB says:

            I wasn’t correcting you NA. Only adding to your comment. I forget about the guys too. From what I’ve learned here, female narcissists tend to use sex as a weapon with their victims even more than males do with devastating effect.

          11. Joanne says:

            Entirely true. The idea that the narc is really not even turned on by YOU. It’s only your fuel that is giving them the satisfaction. It’s just about them. About the appreciation and praise you are showing for THEIR performance. Not how good you look, how good you feel, how they feel so intimately connected with you. No. They may as well be having sex with themselves. Dispels any idea that there is intimacy happening at all. Especially in the one chapter which details the play by play and what the narc is thinking throughout. A real eye opener.

          12. MB says:

            Joanne, as a fantasist, I’m perfectly ok with it not being real. I’m not in love. I find it a refreshing break from reality. Win/win. (Although HG would advise me differently as that is emotional thinking!)

          13. Joanne says:

            But is it just fantasy or are you engaging in the physical act? See, if I’m being completely honest, I am still holding on to the fantasy too. BUT, like you said, it’s simply as an escape from reality. In my case, there was a very brief moment where I was ready to throw it all away and be with him. Luckily this was just temporary insanity. So from this point, I’ll keep my life as it is, but the narc fantasy will live on in my mind – only in the form of the person I believed him to be. There will be no further live encounters. Risky ET.

          14. MB says:

            Joanne, it is virtual. When I met him we were proximate but it wasn’t intimate until he had moved away. I was crazy about him and would’ve thrown it all away at one time too. It wasn’t temporary insanity Joanne. It’s a real thing, an addiction. Anyway, there is no fantasy of him riding in on a white horse and saving me from my mundane life. I DO NOT want to be his primary, EVER! Thank you for that info, HG. There was a time I begged God to make him mine. Thank you God for looking out for my naive ass. So, I remain old faithful. He can depend on me for a potent hit of positive fuel and I can get a delicious fantasy romp in the sheets STD free. I want nothing more from him.

          15. Sweetest Perfection says:

            MB, Joanne, I felt the same way. To a point, I’m glad I was shocked by the realization of what he is and I left because like you, I would never want to become his IPPS. That is now. There was a time I wanted to, and I would have moved to the end of the world if he had asked me to, such is the addiction. My situation is very hard: I live in the same city, we work in the same field and we will be meeting soon, physically, for a work-related event I cannot skip. I’m terrified.

          16. MB says:

            SP, Can you expand on your reasons for being terrified? A well-timed consult with HG prior to the meeting would be most helpful IMO. You can have HG’s words in your head to guide you.

          17. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I cannot expand much without getting into detail about my work, situation, etc. Let’s say I’m going to be alone with no family or friend support in a big city for a few days. And he will be there too, without IPPS. I know there will be a hoover attempt as he constantly said to me in the past he dreamed about this situation with me. Yes, I was thinking of consulting with HG of course. I just can’t find the right time to speak as I’m moving around constantly, it’s all about logistics, but I do want to.

          18. HG Tudor says:

            Stand still then SP – problem solved.

          19. Sweetest Perfection says:

            That’s it? You just saved me $150!

          20. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha.

          21. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I’ll send you an email soon, I have a possible date and time when I’ll be alone, still, and able to speak, hope it works with you, HG.

          22. HG Tudor says:

            I look forward to assisting you SP. Modies rule!

          23. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Of course we do.

          24. Sweetest Perfection says:

            … and: It’s Just a Question of …

          25. HG Tudor says:

            Time or Lust.

          26. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Disjunctive? I prefer copulative.

          27. MB says:

            SP, do the consultation. The internet will be with you wherever you are. That’s all you need for the consult. HG is flexible. You won’t regret it.

          28. Joanne says:

            I agree. The consultation brought me to a level of understanding that I would not have come to on my own, even with all the reading and studying I’ve done. Of course, the fact that I do not follow the ultimate advice of “once you know, you go,” is down to my own obstinance.

          29. HG Tudor says:

            Actually it is down to your emotional thinking masquerading as obstinance, Joanne.

          30. Joanne says:

            That traitorous ET😔

          31. Sweetest Perfection says:

            MB, believe it or not, some places do not have easy access to wi-fi, like the one where I am at this moment. I’m in a spot where I got it and I’m answering everything as fast as I can before leaving again. I’ll send you all a postcard!

          32. MB says:

            SP on the move! Sounds exciting.

          33. windstorm says:

            Sweetest perfection
            Hey, that’s my world, too! Where I live is full of places with no internet – often even no cell phone service. You learn when there’s good signal and make the most of it when you can!

          34. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Windstorm, this is not my base home. But I wouldn’t mind to move here and give up on the internet connection, tbh. But I agree, it can be frustrating sometimes. If I didn’t have internet at “home” I would lose it. I remember one time I visited a friend in Vienna, and she didn’t have internet at home (quite a shock for me, she never warned me about it). They have free Wi-Fi all over downtown Vienna so I looked like a crazy woman strolling around with my arm up trying to get a signal…

          35. windstorm says:

            My only internet is thru my iPhone/tablet and is 3G or LTE. I’ve never had WiFi in my home. Hard to miss what you’ve never had, but I do wish I could get things like Hulu and Netflix. At least I can watch them when I visit my children.

          36. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Well I do need WiFi when I’m abroad, like now. Otherwise I would go bankrupt using data internationally…

          37. windstorm says:

            Can you not get a little portable WiFi device in the country where you are? That’s what my son does when he’s in Japan.

          38. NarcAngel says:

            I thought you’d need wifi just to run that fancy toilet of yours (Dumpling) that has a heated seat and personal car wash. I consulted the People of Walmart forums and they suggested wrapping an ipad in tinfoil could work for you out there. Give it a whirl.

          39. windstorm says:

            Nope. Dumpling just requires a power outlet and water hook up. It does run by remote, but that doesn’t require WiFi.

            Wrap the iPad in tinfoil, you say? I thought you just went outside and help it up in the air? On the weekends I often have to take my phone outside to work. One of my friends has to stand outside on a picnic table at her mothers to get a phone signal. 😄

            “People of Walmart”? Is there such a thing? If so, then I should join. What about “People of Amazon?” If there’s such a thing, goodness knows I need to join!

          40. NarcAngel says:

            Google People of walmart. I was just teasing about it being a forum. It’s photos of people shopping there.

          41. windstorm says:

            Ha, ha! Nope. I’ve seen enough real people shopping at Walmart. No need to see pictures. 😄

          42. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I guess I could, Windstorm, but I also cherish the times I’m not available.

          43. windstorm says:

            That’s no problem. You just keep it turned off until you want to use it. 😄

          44. Joanne says:

            I completely understand and have considered this kind of arrangement myself. But he would have to work to coerce me at this point, and I think he’s got enough fuel sources flowing to not need me and all the baggage I come with. I suppose I’m “old faithful” in a way, too. He’s treated to a decent dollop of fuel when he takes me off the shelf (virtually). Although, I am pretty stingy with my fuel. While I’m just about as dependable as Old Faithful, I’m less of a comparison to a geyser and more like a leaky faucet of fuel😉

        2. sighofrelieff says:

          You know I was thinking I hope in that earlier comment I sent to you….I was calling that guy you were entangled with a faggot! I hope HG did not think I was talking to him or calling him a faggot….I would never do that!

          1. Joanne says:

            Haha! I don’t think HG will see it that way but yes, this narc on the other hand… 😂😂

      2. alexissmith2016 says:

        Spot on NA. Plus why would you want to have sex with someone who doesn’t actually want to have sex with you for the enjoyment and pleasure of love and sex.

        Essentially we make their skin crawl.

        I want someone to be in to me as much as I am into them. I don’t want to be thinking that I’m make their skin crawl.

    2. Sweetest Perfection says:

      This conversation is gold!!! I was also told about all the wonderful things he could do and that he preferred to deliver and didn’t mind receiving (red flag for me when a guy tells you that) and then, he said he didn’t want to deepen our connection by having sex; but then we met and made out and a little bit of kissing over here and rubbing over there, and he lasted 3 minutes. So no we didn’t manage to have sex. We couldn’t. Hahaha. What a big fiasco. I read HG’s book on Sex and the Narcissist thinking all the time mine was a Somatic and got very disappointed at not getting all the acrobatic sex he described in it. Now I don’t know what mine is… cerebral with a gymn membership?

      1. MB says:

        SP, I suppose it’s a case of energy conservation. It requires less energy to talk about it than to actually do it.

        It was confusing to me when unenlightened, but after finding HG makes perfect sense. I’ve always heard, men only want one thing. It’s all about him, etc. The narc guy much prefers to describe what he wants to do to me and get my reaction (sounds/words). If I describe performance of an act on him that most men would relish, he isn’t nearly as interested. I get the prompts of, what would you say when I do this or if I do that. What would you do? What would you say? You must keep your eyes open. I want to see the passion there, etc. It’s a performance with him as the entertainer on stage but more importantly, he is the audience watching and enjoying the response. It’s very different than being with a normal.

      2. Joanne says:

        Omg, that is so awkward. Cerebral with gym membership!! Too funny. The “not deepening the connection by having sex” thing is really strange and confusing. Are you still with this narc?

      3. Sweetest Perfection says:

        Joanne, he wishes I was. No, I escaped eight months ago.

      4. Twilight says:

        Sweetest Perfection

        Cerebral with a gym membership….I am dying over here that is hilarious

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Hi Twilight
          I’m laughing with you on that one.

        2. Sweetest Perfection says:

          You never know, you never know…

  8. sighofrelieff says:

    I have read all of the comments and I feel this is a very interesting subject. I’m not sure what I was to the mid ranger or possible greater I encountered. I know what he wanted me to think I was to him and that was his everything….talks of future together….were to live….career plans…what kind of wedding I wanted….the new home he purchased that was going to be ours together….pick out the furniture for the new home because you will be sorry if you don’t when you are living here finally….the many emails with all the information of the school I would be attending for the advancement of my career….how we would treat and act with one another after being married….where have I been all of his life….I am the only thing that makes him smile everyday….so please don’t ever stop talking to him he would plead….knowone has ever said anything that nice to me before in my life….when you say things like that to me…you make me want to give you everything I have….you make me a better person….what trips would you like to go on??? I could never love you more even if I tried….saying my name with his last name attached to it when addressing me….fantasies of where he would propose to me spoken out loud by him….stopping in crowed streets on his way home…just to read a message from me….walking in an ice storm to get to a local cafe with WiFi just so he could message me or call….because all the power was out at his home or neighborhood that evening….being in Paris on business and staying in the building where his meetings were all day…instead of going straight back to his hotel room…just so he could talk to me because the WiFi was bad there and he wasn’t on his cell phone out of his country at the time….what am I going to do when he puts a ring on my finger….I love you….I love you….I love you….you are beautiful and calling me his Bella and giving me a Tiffany’s heart charm bracelet…buying me things as that I asked for from Paris when he was there and giving them to me…..the most charming man I have ever met…the most loving….so much respect….so much attention….being made to feel like the most special woman he had ever met….let me tell you….I was on cloud 999999!!!!! Thought I had one the lottery as far as love goes and security….he had it all….he had a way of calming me like no other person I have ever met. He was my super hero.

    As far as sex though….I didn’t really have that attraction to him….I mean yes I wanted him that way…but that was the least of my desires for him…it was the emotional and mental attraction/chemistry that I felt for him…even at the sound of his voice…the ring of my phone…he had become my everything and i worshipped him and I looked up to him and absolutely adored him. I did make a few mistakes however concerning another man who was trying to court me….long story…it did cause problems though. That’s when the dark side of him imerged…so in some ways I deserved it…I feel in some ways I sabotaged it. But no matter if I had made those mistakes or not…the devaluation would have still come eventually…he’s still a narcissist no matter what I did to sabotage my own happieness. His dark side was not a normal dark side…it was a very fear provoking side that literally scared me away from him as the devaluation was starting. In the end I both feared and loved him….that is a very mind screwed position to be in.

    1. Joanne says:

      Hi sighofrelief
      Cloud 999999! I was on it too for all the same reasons. Who doesn’t want to hear those things!? No one in my life had ever spoken to me in that way. Not the least of which, an incredibly handsome guy who seemingly had “the whole package.” He made it so believable, and I am not a gullible woman. There’s a huge part of me that would still go back to that time and do it all again, even knowing what I know now. That is how amazing it was. Crazy.

      I don’t think you sabotaged your own happiness. You probably saved yourself the pain of the devaluation and all that comes next. So it was as if you headed the heartbreak off at the pass.

      1. sighofrelieff says:

        Yeah I would like to believe that as well….and to a certain degree yes I spared myself…maybe to a large degree….as I’m not exactly sure all he had lurking in his closet. However a large part of me did still suffer quite a bit. 5 years to be exact. I had the hardest time letting go. Lots of time lost and wasted on an evil fuck! Sorry for the language that just came out. Thank you for your reply and I am sorry as well that you had to feel the let down. Would I do it again? Well the funny thing about that is….I will never be that person I was when he met me…ever again. With another narcissist….well they would never be able to get into the deep places as he did….because there are now guards there with Spears lol!!!! If anything in the end any future narcissists will only end up frustrated as they will never go where he went….promise!

        1. Joanne says:

          I’m glad you’ve got guards with spears! I’ve read so often people attracting one narc after another. I can’t even imagine. 5 years of suffering is a long time 😔

    2. Leanne says:

      Our golden periods sound similar. I fell HARD, may, I jumped. Or perhaps he pushed, as that was a popular “punishment” from him. . Shoving me into the furniture

      Glad you are away from him! Me too! *xoxo

      1. sighofrelieff says:

        Thank you and sorry they were similar….wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.

  9. Licinia says:


    In reviewing a prior posting of this article (July 2016), I notice the following in one of your responses:

    “If we were entirely confident that we could achieve your emotional coupling with us at the desired level, without having to engage in sex and that we could also command the resultant emotional pain and hurt later, without having to withdraw sex from the equation, we would do this.” I have a couple of questions.

    1. How would a narcissist determine that satisfactory “emotional coupling” has occurred in this circumstance?

    2. What is the status of the victim in this circumstance, regardless of shelving–NISS, IPSS, etc? In other words, does full emotional binding result in the victim being treated as an intimate partner for purposes of future devaluation, shelving, and other manipulations more typically used against intimate partners?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. You are under our control and providing fuel.

      2. There can be emotional coupling with primary and secondary sources, whether intimate or non-intimate.

      1. Better Call HG says:

        HG, would a LMRN who does not engage in a particularly sexual relationship (3 1/2 months of dating) then use the lack of a sexual relationship during the disengagement to draw negative fuel by blaming the IPPS/IPSS and saying they’ve never had this problem (lack of sexual relationship) with anyone else? I know it’s probably an obvious answer, but my emotional thinking is clouding the issue.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes, it is triangulation.

      2. Honey Bee says:

        So you have sex to make sure your gets emotionally bonded to you… You would prefer not to have sex.

        Why? What does having sex do with you? Clearly something happens that you don’t want to have happen … Is it a control thing?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          The intimacy that comes with sex is unwelcome.

      3. Honey Bee says:

        Or could it be because there is lots of yummy negative fuel to be had (in case of an emotional bond to you)?

      4. Alexissmith2016 says:

        IN reponse to ‘the intamacy is unwelcome’, does that mean you enjoy the physical sensation but not the ‘closeness’? So sex with a prostitute or tertiary IP would be enjoyed or still no? Just about the fuel?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          The physical sensation of sex is not problematic, we have an aversion to intimacy which can be overridden (mainly by Mid Range and Greater) during seduction but when there is no need to seduce, the feigning and receipt of intimacy is dispensed with. Sex is about the fuel.

  10. TwistedHeart says:

    Strangely the more I learn about narcs, the more turned on I get and it makes me want to go back to mine for the sex. Does this happen often? It’s so fascinating. Obviously I will not act on this, but the sexual fantasies I have for him are so very strong, I want to be his submissive. If only he could keep the games in the bedroom and treat me with respect otherwise. We only dated for a few months. Things never got too bad except for all the mind fuckery. My gut was telling me something was off the whole time but the sex was the best. I feel like I need a 12 step program! I think reading your book will just heighten my desires. HELP!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Read Sex and the Narcissist.

      1. sighofrelieff says:

        What is your definition of intimacy…like what does that look like to you? Some people think the sexual act alone is considered intimacy…so how would you describe the difference between the two in your view? Also…why does intimacy bother you or someone like yourself? Not sex but intimacy.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          See Sex and the Narcissist.

      2. sighofrelieff says:

        I definitely need to read this!

    2. Sun says:

      Dear Twisted Heart,

      The question was for HG. But I will add my background as well.

      Because of the huge amount of control that narcissist put over us. It makes us feel that we want to give up control and become the narc’s submissive. Especially sexually as you mentioned. Owing the fact that narcissists doesn’t recognize boundaries, if we allowed them to take control in one aspect of our life, they will take advantage and control all the other things.

      Please do read sex and the narcissist as HG advised, because it will make you realize that the narcissist want nothing from the other person but fuel.

      It sound harsh, but if you stop providing the narc with fuel and attention you will notice how easily he/she can discard one person and move to the other person so easily, and this is due to the lack of emotional attachment.

      If you just left your narc, you might feel that it’s difficult or impossible to let go of him, but trust me. Am talking about my personal experience. After the time pass and if you follow HG Tudor’s advise of differentiating between logical thinking and emotional thinking. You are guaranteed to achieve freedom. And you will look back and feel lucky for deciding not to go back.

      However, you are absolutely valuable and don’t let the narcissist define your value!

      HG Tudor give us the advice and the knowledge and we are free to choose. Of course, to choose hell or freedom!

      Best of luck.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Great post. Good advice.

      2. Twisted Heart says:

        Thanks for taking the time to reply Sun. I read the book and it has helped. Especially the humiliation part of it. That would be so damaging.
        The last time we were together it really felt like love but now I know that he was just mirroring my feelings. That part blows my mind, that they can fake intimacy so strongly. I think that’s the part that hurts the most. It’s emotional rape.

      3. Renarde says:

        Brilliant advice. SATN was the first book I read and finally I knew there was an author who was making clear and lucid sense.

        It also really clearly made me see that disengagements are always about fuel and not about my worth as a person. That brought so much healing.

        Thank you, HG.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome Renarde.

          1. sighofrelieff says:

            SATN? What book is that?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Sex and the Narcissist.

  11. DoForLuv says:

    This was so hard for me to read , because I needed more time before giving it to him but he kept telling he just only wants to love me how crazy I make him and would never leave me only wanted me no one else every again and so much more . Just to break my heart again and again .

    I just finished reading Decipher and went NC right after. I feel emotionless right now , I hope I’ll succeed this time . i am sick to my stomach about his actions ! . I think its most important to read HGs books .

  12. Chihuahuamum says:

    Been here done that. The effect is wearing off tho. I do still get upset when im being shelved romantically but oddly when the narcs takes me off the shelf i find myself faking which isnt good either. So i ask myself do i really want to be involved sexually with him? Yes bc i still want him to want me but no bc i dont feel any of it is real. Its very complex. I think the sex is more from a place of ego on my part and i need to be ok when im shelved and realise its no reflection on me whether im shelved or im not. Were objects mere objects to be used. The intitial spell of lovesex has worn off and the magic has dissipated. The fog has worn off and i see it for the tool it is.

    1. nunya biz says:

      CM, this sounds like some of the conclusions I’ve come to. There have been discussions regarding whether or not to remain in a sex relationship with an N and be detached. I personally think it is possible, but what I also think is that I am trading more important things by not making enough available space in my life for what I truly desire.
      For me of it comes down to short term versus long term gain/goals, impulsivity, addiction/attachment behavior, and yes, the inability for me to be more constantly authentic. I think this can also apply to familial and platonic relationships in its own way.

      The more I realize when I am engaging with particular people that I am interacting with a facade, the more I start to feel an automatic repulsion to entertaining that interaction for a time. The value of being authentic begins to tug at me more and I notice there is a real life undeniable energy exchange happening and I am indeed participating. This is an abstract concept not available consciously for all people to consider, so I think it is important to discuss. I could see myself, for example, having a short term sexual relationship with a narc and remaining detached to an extent (while still expressing myself fully when appropriate) but I would have to keep in mind that I am trading something of myself and I would be unwilling to do it in the long term in my current circumstances. It is up to a person to decide what is “harmful” to ones self versus what is genuinely beneficial and what risks are realistically present? I feel like I should’t take having my feelings hurt as a risk lightly and I shouldn’t deny that it is ok for me to protect them actively.
      Self-esteem is obviously a factor, but so is sexual desire and fulfillment and I think that is valuable too.

  13. J.G says:

    And what happens when they turn you into a Madonna, for punishment, denigration, devaluation.
    My narcissist was with anyone, a dog in heat.
    But I was untouchable. Everyone was better (that was my thought (self-evaluation of my self-esteem)).
    Although this behavior, in my opinion, involves some kind of dysfunction.
    He himself told me that he was once told: “you are very quickly”.
    I guess I wouldn’t take that as a criticism. When I tell him in English because my narcissist is Spanish.
    This rapidity, makes me think of problems of premature ejaculation and various dysfunctions… On the other hand his triangulation behavior and his game of positioning me as Madonna, made me give him fuel in abundance.
    My affections for my narcissist were really beyond having or not having sex with him.
    Today, after all these years, looking at things with perspective. I consider that it was a totally DISFUNCTIONAL sentimental relationship.
    And reading every day more and more, I wonder with you can have some kind of functional relationship? I think that’s impossible.
    Today with my 43, much more mature and with more life experience, remembering the events that was a pure sick relationship.
    It really hurt me excessively, to read in your books that I fell in love with myself, because they are a mirror. They project our characteristics and our good qualities. This did hurt me, because the person I fell in love with never existed.
    And this in the mind of a “normal” people jjajajajajaj, because here we are all crazy…
    It makes you crazy …..
    The virgin and all the saints could not match me because I was immaculate.

    1. Chihuahuamum says:

      Hi JG…im sorry he put you in that madonna position. I think this is a major shelving and he wanted you there in his toybox but wanted to play with other toys. Then theres the punishing factor if he felt wounded in some way.
      They have no qualms about placing you indefinitely on a shelf and carrying on like everythings hunky dory bc in their world it is. They are getting their needs met elsewhere. The lack of attachment enables them to carry on this way whereas we feel love for them and it confuses us. They operate way differently and their wiring is that of an android.

    2. K says:

      If you want to know more about the Madonna/Whore Complex, it located on page 196 in the book Sex and The Narcissist. The book is excellent and I think you will like it. I am rereading it.

    3. Honey Bee says:

      They see themselves as a mirror that merely reflects other people’s feelings. Their inability to absorb feelings combined with their own lack or inability to feel (and empathize) makes them not so adept at recognizing fakery. They won’t notice if you detach from them, provided of course you’re a good actress (or actor) …
      Show them what they want to be shown and they will in effect enter a mirror room. If you are good at this (detaching and acting), you will not be the one who generated the fuel the narc gobbles up, they will have generated it themselves. Unknownst to them they will feed themselves.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Not entirely correct Honey Bee. Most of our kind do not see themselves as a mirror, although they are. We do absorb feelings, it is called fuel. The inability of some of our kind (lower echelon narcissists) to mirror effectively does however mean they are less adept at spotting fakery (higher echelon narcissists will notice pretty quickly).

        Do not show us what you believe we want to see because you will still provide some fuel, you risk a reaction once fakery is identified but moreover you should be abiding by GOSO.

  14. Leslie says:


    You are the addict. Not the other person.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      There are plenty who have admitted to the addiction of the sex despite the abuse. Here on this very blog in fact.

      1. Renarde says:

        NA is correct, there are many on here although I get you’re point on narcs being addicted to fuel.

  15. Leslie says:

    The way you frame things is always weird and tweaked.

    Sex and love are intertwined in a healthy relationship but they are not equivalents.

    The sharing of attention, support, caring, physical intimacy are not addictions, they are fundamental aspects of normal reciprocal relationships.

    Your obvious lack of understanding is a signal symptom of your personality disorder. It’s unnecessary and inadvisable to perpetrate this on a vulnerable audience.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      What you fail repeatedly to understand is that there is more than one perspective. My perspective works for me and my kind – it is labelled as disordered only because it is not a majority view and because of the impact on other people. I see your way of operating as disordered because it does not work for you – you end up upset, hurt, angry etc. I move forward, you do not. I recognise there are different perspectives on the world and those perspective have evolved in order to enable that individual to function. There is no such thing as an objective ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ – certain things are right for some and not for others. What you also miss – caused by your repeated railing against everything that is written – is how this information assists people in gaining understanding and ultimately freedom. You are always welcome to express your view, that is part of what this place is for, but also expect to be challenged when you state inaccuracies or miss points. I understand you are angry about whatever happened to you, but you are allowing this emotional thinking to keep you angry and thus you see everything written as something to attack, rather than to harness for your own betterment.

      1. Twilight says:


        I do agree with you the majority of a society dictates what is right and what is wrong.
        On my morning walk this morning I wondered what my kind would do as your kinds numbers increase. I see it happening, it is one reason why I feel so strongly that your work needs to be known.

        Ones perspective influences the way they view the world. Doesn’t make it right nor wrong, society dictates this. Granted empathetic/empathic people have been the majority, this was needed to survive, henceforth why our perspective has always been viewed as the right one, as we move away from needing each other to survive you see more and more narcissistic traits coming to the fore. What will happen once we are no longer the majority?

        1. windstorm says:

          “What will happen once we are no longer the majority?”

          Didn’t George Orwell write a book about that?

          1. Twilight says:


            Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.

            The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.

            Reality exists in the human mind, and nowhere else.

            People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because roughmen stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

            I had to google him to make sure I quote him correctly, it was a long time ago I read his work.
            Animal Farm was the first book I read.
            I thought he wrote something dealing with narcissistic traits, so I went looking for it to. Found it just can’t open the complete document with out giving my email and creating a password to see if I could copy and paste it here.

            So I guess yes is the answer to your question.

          2. NarcAngel says:

            George Orwell did write a book, but it’s sooooo 1984.

          3. windstorm says:

            Yeah, and boy was he off with his time frame!

      2. Original Overthinker says:

        My Animal Farm memory …Still use the line.. Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others…

      3. Kellie Mccoey says:

        I totally agree with you Mr Tudor. It isn’t working for me. I definitely have many narcissisic traits but lots of empathic ones too. I fight back and forth with myself all the time! If I could choose and be a narcissist I would. I just don’t have a mean bone in my body damn it!😁

    2. NarcAngel says:

      You cannot speak for his audience as they are not as vulnerable as you may think. I say this with kindness: It appears you are most vulnerable, since you seem unable or unwilling to see that the information is given from his point of view so that we can better understand the futility of pursuing the relationship and move forward. Something it seems you are unable to do at this point. I hope that you can accept that eventually because it appears your anger and denial that you played any part in it is holding you hostage to what happened to you. He knows what he is and does. We know what he is and does. You are not offering anything new. Question is: What are you going to do to change your situation?

    3. Sun says:


      Thank you we are not vulnerable. ( In case you meant us the blog’s reader). Even if you meant those who interacted with HG in real life, they are not vulnerable as well. They simply lacked the awareness of what a narc is.

      HG have made fair points to clarify things for you. What you expressed above is your perspective you don’t have to force it in someone else and make them believe on it.

      Narcissists have their own perspective in viewing the world. HG Tudor is not trying to provoke us or you when he repeatedly writes about how he acts or what he have done. The main point is to share his narcissistic perspective with the world, to clarify, enlighten and correct some common errors about how people view narcissism.

      We have to be grateful for his help and valuable knowledge. Instead of attacking.

      I mean how often do you find a narc, who is willing to share his/her view and be so tolerant and patient in making others understand it? The answer is rarely.

      One last point, your point of view is valid, just try to deliver it in a more respectful way so others can accept it.

      1. Renarde says:

        I get the obvious care and concern demonstrated in Leslie’s post and I would agree that some are vulnerable but they are vulnerable because they are either new to The Works or missing something significant in their understanding.

        I would go further and say we are all vulnerable and ESPECIALLY the Emps as we will always attract them. Hence the need for education.

        HG a question if I may and to all as well. Do others find the constant requirement for eternal vigilance to be as emotionally stressful and tiring as I am? Notwithstanding I’ve now pretty much lost the ability to trust this has led to rampant paranoia which I struggle to control precisely because of trust issues.

        To HG, when you started to write and created narcsite, did you foresee what any of the consequences might be for a weaponised Empath in society? Are there ones for example that a new WE might yet look forward to? I’m over a year in and I’m still getting surprised.

      2. Presque Vu says:

        Renarde you posted..

        “HG a question if I may and to all as well. Do others find the constant requirement for eternal vigilance to be as emotionally stressful and tiring as I am? Notwithstanding I’ve now pretty much lost the ability to trust this has led to rampant paranoia which I struggle to control precisely because of trust issues.”

        I feel EXACTLY the same now! I’m second guessing everyone. At work they laugh because I’m like ‘oh that was narcistic’ or constantly watching for signs of narcistic behaviours! I check myself, my children and good god if I date.. do you ever trust again?? I’ve been invited to a speed dating event, I’ll feel like I’m interviewing to ensure no red flags. I’ll be hyper vigilante! That’s not natural and I don’t feel natural anymore.

        Of course I’m grateful to HG and this blog of information and it’s contributors, renarde I totally related to your post in terms of paranoia and exhaustion. Do you think it’s possible to ever get over it all?

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