How To Make A Request To A Narcissist



The most effective approach when dealing with our kind is GOSO, namely Get Out, Stay Out and do so through the imposition of a robust no contact regime.

The value of achieving this means it is often worth making certain sacrifices in terms of having that final word (see The Last Word ), writing off money owed to you, kissing good bye to that gay unicorn sculpture or even hoping for some kind of explanation as to what has happened. The benefit of achieving no contact will often outweigh trying to address those outstanding matters. Keep in mind also that not only do our kind not provide you with closure ( Closure Denied ), will not give you answers and also use any interaction to future fake and give you false hope, we also utilise outstanding issues (money, possessions, payment of bills etc) as the maintenance of Ever Presence and as Hoover Triggers. The attempt at a successful no contact regime is littered with the residue of the narcissistic entanglement.

Nevertheless, there may be occasions where you feel it is necessary to make a request of our kind in order to seek some kind of outcome or resolution. This requires careful evaluation to determine whether it is a step worth taking and if it is, how should this be effected? Here are some dos and don’ts in respect of how to make a request to a narcissist. Keep in mind that these points are not stand-alone and impact on one another in terms of the overall outcome that can be achieved.

  1. The first significant point is to take heed of the very title of this article. Make a request. Although it may sicken you to have to be polite and civil to us after the way you have been treated, if you make a demand you will get nowhere. In accordance with our need to always maintain control and the upper hand, making a demand of us is the proverbial red rag to the bull. Dependent on how this demand is made, it will either be Challenge Fuel ( so expect us to provoke you to get more delicious negative fuel and we will respond in an intransigent, obnoxious and obstructive manner to this demand) or it will wound us and thus you will ignite our fury. This latter response will mean your demand will be dead in the water and you will be subjected to either heated or cold fury. No matter how much it pains you, do not use phrases such as

“You have to do this”

“You must pay me immediately”

“If you do not do this then…”

Instead, you should utilise phrases including

“It would be appreciated if you could….”

“I hope that you might be able to….”

“Would you be so kind as to….”

We baulk at being commanded to do anything, since we are the doers and not the done to. No matter how right you may feel about making a demand, no matter how justified or entitled you may be, resist the temptation to couch your interaction with us in such terms.

2. Timing. This is crucial in terms of maximising the potential for success with your request. Naturally any request made to us during the relevant golden period is highly likely going to meet with success but that is of little help to you. You are not likely to be asking for your antique banker’s lamp back during the golden period or requesting that the utilities’ bills be settled promptly. Your request is usually going to be made post-escape or post-disengagement and it is in those instances that the issue of timing becomes paramount.

a. Do not bother with making any request in the immediacy of your escape from our kind. By immediacy I mean the first month post escape. Your escape will have meant that you have been deemed to be a traitor. If you make the request during the Initial Grand Hoover (our concerted attempt to pull you back under our control and into the Formal Relationship again) then it will only be seen as further evidence of your treachery. If you want money to be repaid, that not only signals to us that you have no interest in coming back to us, but making such a request will either be Challenge Fuel or Wounding. If you make your request following an unsuccessful IGH, if we do not have a replacement IPPS (assuming that was the position you held) then your request will in all likelihood be agreed to on the basis of you returning to us. Do not fall for it. This will be a future fake. We will agree to returning those items if you come and see us (so we can apply more pressure to draw fuel from you etc) but the return of the possessions will not happen.

b. If you become aware that we are pursuing a new IPPS interest and that is in the early stages (first few weeks of the pursuit) then do not bother making your request. You will remain painted black, seen as a traitor and also we will be concerned that you are trying to make us look bad in front of this new prospect. Furthermore, our inherent wariness will mean that we will treat the request with suspicion, regarding it as a Trojan Horse for the purposes of you trying to inveigle your way back in to wreak havoc on our new golden period.

c. If we have an embedded IPPS and all is sunny in paradise in Narcworld, this is your optimum opportunity to acquire a favourable outcome. The reason for this is that we will be far more secure in our golden period with this new IPPS. Furthermore, the maintenance of the façade of us being kind, decent and honourable will be of importance and whilst there is no absolute guarantee that we will acquiesce to your request, your chances are much greater. We want to be seen as magnanimous, that we bear no grudge, that we have moved on and we want to show the new IPPS (and members of the coterie) that we can exhibit benevolence. Of course there will be limits to this largesse, but by approaching us at this time and adopting the other points in this article then you will increase your chances significantly of a favourable outcome.

d. If we have dis-engaged from you, you have been painted black also. In all likelihood there will be a new IPPS and therefore in terms of timing you should pay heed to the above points.

e. If we have dis-engaged from you and there is no IPPS (as far as you can tell) there will be no point making the request because you will remain black because we have chosen to dis-engage from you with no IPPS to bolt on. Such a step may well have been taken as a consequence of total treachery on your part – exposure or massive wounding – and therefore any request made at this time will be met with being ignored at best and horrendous malign hoovers at worst.

Timing is most important and you need to be able to recognise where we are likely to be at with regards to our dynamic with other appliances before making your quest,

3. Do not make the request in person. No matter how hard you try to remain neutral, by appearing in person before us, you will provide us with fuel through what you say how you say it, the tone of your voice, your facial expression, the look in your eyes and so forth. This means that we will give the appearance of considering your request but all we will focus on is either gaining more fuel from you or pulling you back into the Formal Relationship (dependent on when this happens). Even if you make the request when we are at 2c above, your appearance in person will defeat the request because we see the opportunity to gain fuel from you (either positively by agreeing and future faking you so you keep revisiting us or by provoking you to give negative fuel) as far more important than looking good for the appearance of the façade. Keep in mind also that your emotional thinking is far more likely to govern your responses if you are with us in person and this will result in your providing automatic responses which will go against your aims.

4. Do not make the request by telephone. Although the quantity of fuel will not be as great as if you made the request in person, there is still a decent quantity to be obtained and we will seize on that opportunity rather than focus on making us look good by agreeing to your request. By speaking to us, you are again more likely to give us fuel and also to be governed by emotional thinking as we goad you – be it for positive or negative fuel.

5. Do not make the request by text message or social media message. You will end up clipping your message in a way which will make it appear like a demand. It is also easier for us to ignore.

6. Always make the request in writing and that means either in an e-mail or a hand-written letter. Why do this?

a. Evidence. Your request is not guaranteed to meet with success but where it eventually leads to (perhaps police involvement or through the courts) will be boosted considerably by having this evidence in place and not having to rely on oral evidence.

b. Best Front Shown. You will be far more considered, logical and restrained in a written request than one made in person or by telephone. Keep in mind that some of our kind will film/record you and use edited ‘highlights’ to discredit you when you become angry, frustrated or exasperated.

c. You will be able to take your time in composing the most effective request. You will be able to reflect on it, remove as much fuel as possible, avoid anything which would be construed as demanding or wounding and maximising effectiveness.

d. Even if you do provide some fuel, the written word conveys the lowest quantity by reason of the absence of hearing the tone, seeing the facial expressions and so forth. The written word may be emotive but it is low in terms of the quantity of fuel and may even just be Thought Fuel based on how we consider you to have been when you wrote the correspondence.

e. Building a ‘paper’ trail. If the request is not agreed to and you therefore have to use a formal channel – complaint to a body, commence litigation or use the police for instance, the fact you have created a paper trail will move matters heavily in your favour.

7. Never plead, cajole or threaten. This will cause us to scent there is fuel in the offing and/or wound us and therefore we will focus on the fuel/healing the wound you have caused and your request will be forgotten about as we go off on a different frolic.

8. Provide some flattery but do not go overboard. It is acceptable to write in terms such as

“I know you are a reasonable person”

“I know you are the right person to assist with this matter”

“I know you can resolve this for both our benefits”

Note the use of “I know” and not “I think”. Using I know is a strong assertion and leaves no room for doubt. However, do not become obsequious or over the top in your praise or compliments, because this will either cause us to sense more fuel is on offer or we will regard you as taking the piss and this will be Challenge Fuel. In either case, this causes us to focus on the fuel and/or asserting superiority and your request will be lost in the process.

9. Make the request once and once only. If you do not get a response or the response is rejection do not go back. All we will do is future fake and provoke you. If the request does not meet with success then you have made your point and you should then proceed to escalate the matter through a formal channel. Don’t keep chipping away asking “did you get the e-mail” (put a delivered and read receipt on it). Don’t demand that the request is answered (see the point about demand above).

10. If the execution of the request requires the delivery up of property, the return of possessions and such like, politely request that this is done through a third party and specify when they will attend to collect goods or deliver property etc. With regard to money you can arrange for this either be paid into an account or if it is cash have it handed to the trust worthy third party. Do not suggest that you will meet with us to execute the request. This will cause us to see an opportunity to gain fuel and deny the request or string it out and delay.

11. Ensure the request is clear. Do not suggest any meeting to discuss it. Do not invite us to advance counter proposals. Do not fudge the issue. Identify what needs to be done, make the request in a clear fashion noting precisely what should be provided for example, when and how. Invite a third party to review the written request so it reads clearly and there is no scope for misunderstanding. We will exploit a lack of clarity in order to contact you in person and thus draw fuel etc.

12. Politely request that the response from us is sent to a third party. You should always make the request (do not do so by proxy as this will insult us and wound us that you could not even be bothered to do the courtesy of asking us to begin with and your request will immediately fail) . However, detail in the request that performance of the request and confirmation should be provided to a third party who you can trust. This will deny us the opportunity to try to hoover you and dodge the purpose of the request. It also means that you may also maximise your prospects of a successful outcome when you are painted black still. If we do not have to deal with you (when there is a concern that you might for example interfere in the blossoming seduction of a new IPPS) then this is likely to improve the chances of it happening.

13. Identify the school of narcissist you are dealing with and tailor the request accordingly. The Lesser will have lower energy levels and risk an ignition of fury more readily, therefore look at ways of making his compliance easy – send someone to collect rather than wanting him to come and deliver for example. The Mid Ranger will want to be seen as the ‘good egg’ so factor that into how you phrase the request. The Greater will be above such trivialities and you may benefit from suggesting one of the Greater’s people liaises with one of your people to execute the request.

14. Do not offer a reward or incentive for compliance. This will then be the focus of our response and this will be sought without acceding to the request. If you show you are willing to give us something in return (which we regard as being entitled to anyway) we will focus on that instead.

15. Seek my assistance with a bespoke solution to the relevant situation so all factors are considered and taken into account and I can assist with the drafting of a request which is far more likely to succeed.

16. If the request does not work, do not be disheartened. Instead, if you have followed this article you will have avoided giving much fuel, you will not have made a show of yourself, you will have breached no contact of course but not in a way that is going to cause you huge problems and you will have established a constructive platform which will allow you to, if you wish, to escalate the matter in order to bring about compliance through an alternative method.


74 thoughts on “How To Make A Request To A Narcissist

  1. honestyrocks777 says:

    Hmmm. I have no idea where he would be as far as.. if he has a new IPPS or anything. I dont follow him or look at his media. He is blocked from my phone. I have no clue. It was a chicago trip and that was in November. Then he claimed he was too confused and didnt like what was happening between us and needed some space for thanksgiving because we were JUST talking about moving halfway to be together. I did what he asked and dissected everything to death. It wasnt feasible to move. It would cost us more. He said I went back on my commitment to move half way. Anyways during that discussion we were contemplating on breaking up. He said he would give me $400 since I saved it for us to go on a trip. Told me he didnt want to do thanksgiving (although he went back and forth probably 4 times on that discussion on whether he was coming or not). We had sex. Then I was leaving and I didnt hear from him for a week. I didnt reach out either. I was drained. Then i started the process of understanding i COULD NOT go back. I warned a girl he worked with. He claimed she was in her 60s. Wanted to hang out with her. She was his age. I worried for her and just asked if they were ever together. She told him. He made a snarky post on fb. She commented. They both laughed. Then an hour later he told me he missed me trying to bait me.. I ignored it. Then morning came and he texted goodbye. I said ok. Then he blew up my phone ringing it. And he told me I WILL BE ACCOUNTABLE for talking to his friend from work. Told him I was over his supposed accountability. Said I was a sick person. Turns out he was trying to get with her too and HE was the one coming on to HER. Anyways. A week later is when he showed at my door and I politely closed it and locked it. Cried. He knocked 3 times. My daughter got pissed. Answered it and he asked for another chance. She told him he cause enough problems for our family and proceeded to tell her what I did by telling his coworker at work what he was doing. He left. I felt guilty (because I wasnt reading all this) and messaged him and told him it would never work. I spoke with his exes and they all said the same things I said to him. (This was about december) after Christmas my daughter asked him if she could have the external hard drive he doesnt use that I bought him for christmas(he claimed he couldnt come to my house because he is 3rd shift and there is nothing to do, so I bought it for him so he could research if I’m sleeping and have all his files) he never used it. One day in February I think I saw his name in my phone. I thought I deleted him. Opened up his contact info and saw a button. I thought it was to verify he was blocked. I clicked on it. IT STARTED CALLIING HIM!! Ugh. I hung up so fast. The next day he messaged my daughter and said he was moving to canada and he didnt forget about her. It would be in the mail soon. It did arrive.

    Weeks passed. And one day I was just numb. No happiness or sadness or anger. Just numb. And I sent him a voice message. I said what I had to. I just felt like a zombie. Told him he would be the first ex I wont speak to. And how I was right all along. But he convinced me I wasnt. I’ll never second guess myself. A week later his best friend messaged me. Told me I had no right to message him. That she has been in a relationship with a narc and she can be his friend. And that nick is not a narcissist. And I’m the abuser because I didnt leave him alone etc. I sent a very kind message. Told her I’d always love her. That she wont know the extent of things and I cant be involved in it anymore. Smh. That’s the latest.

    I know nothing nor do I want to. I have enough ET on my own.

    But I dont know how to go about this because I dont know if he has a girl or not or anything.

    I do have his address. I can mail something. But I also have stuff of his. Hes an hour away. Not a big deal. But I dont know that he would mail something back to a 3rd party? The money that is.


    1. HG Tudor says:

      Nick is not your priority. Box up his stuff and put it in the garage, loft, storage space, anywhere where you will not keep seeing it. You can address the return of his property in the future when your ET is lowered. Focus on your no contact regime and not the narcissist.

  2. EmP says:

    I am using these recommendations in the workplace. They are GOLD. Unfortunately, there lots of narcs in my company, most of them holding managerial positions.

    Extremely important to phrase the requests correctly (and even though it does not guarantee you will get what you want, it gives you more chances of getting it). I have always been polite, but clearly not to a narc-standard. I would often ask for information/documents and my emails would get ignored.
    Funny how the other day one of the work-shy, email-ignoring managers I have to deal with was complaining about executives not answering emails. He said (and I quote): “Aren’t we all adults, after all?”. Unbelievable.

    Anyway, one of the things I love about this blog is that you can use the knowledge it provides in a wide variety of contexts. It annoys me a bit to admit it, but the most valuable information I have learnt was taught to me by a Narcissist (capital N here because I’m referring to HG of course).

    I know I am repeating myself but HG is right in saying that first-class education is addictive. It saddens me that he set the bar so high, however.. I read other authors and I find them incredibly disappointing for the most part. The style, the content. Just disappointing.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you for this testimonial EmP, it is important that people understand and continue to share the many strengths of this place and the work found here. I am pleased you have found it so useful.

  3. cb says:

    Marvellous post.

    Helped me a lot.

    I get the feeling in some cases these narc bosses don’t even want a Thank You-message?

    As if they don’t wish to be reminded of the favour they did for us?

    Am I right?

  4. Mercy says:

    SMH, you are such a busy lady and it’s great that you love your job. I see now how the relationship with MRN would be a comfort because of the convenience. It was similar in the beginning for me too. I didn’t want to settle in a conventional relationship. I wanted companionship without being tied down. It backfires though. It doesn’t matter how easy we make it for them, they can’t help acting on their instincts.

    I’m glad you consulted HG. I don’t have to tell you, you know better. You’re a smart lady, the distraction will only last for a short while or end up creating a whole new set of issue.

    I have hope that you will find someone healthy that can accept your busy lifestyle.

    1. SMH says:

      Mercy, I know you get it. With a narc, especially, it is impossible to hope for such a thing. Yet I could not understand why things didn’t work and kept trying. He wanted an affair, I wanted a part-time lover, our chemistry was off the charts. It was a win-win to my mind. I even told him that I thought we’d be sneaking off to see each other between visits with our grandchildren (way in the future – neither of us has any yet). I had in mind something like Mitterand’s secret life with his mistress, though I pointed out to MRN that we were not French and there would be no cultural acceptance of our affair.

      I don’t hope to ever find the right person, in any case. First, it took me until recently to come to this realization and I am not young anymore (though that doesn’t seem to deter men). Second, In my experience, men want someone to take care of them whether or not they are narcs. Few are independent, they are happier married (the opposite for women, though social pressure makes them want to marry and stay married). Men even die younger if they do not have a partner to take care of them. They are just not cut out for someone like me and, like you, I am not cut out for a conventional relationship. My only option seems to be a long term affair! But yes, I do know better. I am off work guy now anyway. Haven’t seen if I have an answer from HG yet but he was rude (not directly to me) at a group dinner with 30 foreign visitors the other night, and I lost respect for him just like that.

      1. Mercy says:

        SMH, I was confused about your last sentence. I thought you ware talking about HG being rude. I saw your post on another thread and realize you were talking about the work guy. He sounds like a creep collecting women to play with while he’s away from his wife.

        I think you’re selling yourself short by saying that your only option is a long term affair. I have a hard time believing there are not men out there looking for the same thing you are.

        1. SMH says:

          Mercy, Yes, work guy. It made me think that if he is a narc (HG says he needs more info), he is not a Greater because a Greater would never make such a gaff.

          I have no idea what my future holds but I am taking a break from dating right now. I’ve even gone off online dating, which I used to enjoy (and encouraged you to try too!). I might be moving again for good and so there is no point in getting involved with anyone. If that happens, I will be within driving distance of MRN (kidding! I mean I will be but that won’t change anything).

          I was being a bit facetious about my option being a long term affair. I’m starting to think that men who want affairs are all narcs anyway :-).

          1. Narc noob says:

            What does SMH stand for?

          2. SMH says:

            Narc Noob, SMH=Shaking My Head because when I first got here I couldn’t believe what I was reading – all the little pieces of the puzzle began to fit together. It was suddenly obvious what I had been struggling with for years so I felt kind of dumb. SMH just came out and there it was. Like hanging there with my mouth open.

            What does noob mean?

          3. Narc noob says:

            Oh ha ha, great name. Eye opener huh. Noob means beginner…. I hope. 😅😂

          4. SMH says:

            Oh like newbie. Haha. I like that too!

          5. Mercy says:

            SMH, there you go trying to get me to date again haha. I’m familiar with inline dating and am not impressed. This summer I’m just going to get out with friends again and enjoy myself. Maybe I’ll meet someone but I’m not going to actively look yet. I’d like to spend a little fun time single and narc free

          6. SMH says:

            Mercy, that sounds awesome. I don’t even have time to go out with friends, never mind with narcs. But I am travelling a lot this year so maybe I’ll join the mile high club 🙂

        2. SMH says:

          I did have a brief encounter with a handsome man of the right age in a supermarket last week. He was buying food for one. So there is hope!

          1. HG Tudor says:

            The Shieldmaiden was out that night so I had to purchase for one, pleasure to have met you SMH.

          2. SMH says:

            lol HG. Do you perchance live in hilly N London near Ray Davies?

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Sssh, don’t give it away!

          4. SMH says:

            I knew it. I think I once said here that you are probably my neighbour. When the weather warms up, I’ll be looking out for those SuperDry swim trunks and golden legs at the ponds (though of course I only go to the Ladies Pond).

          5. Sweetest Perfection says:

            “SuperDry swim tranks and golden legs” is a superb description, SMH. HG, I vote for updating your avatar picture, it’s about time, what do you think?

          6. SMH says:

            SP, when the weather warms up and I get to the ladies pond I’ll upload a tit pic, because we all sunbathe topless there (no men allowed). In fact, I think we should all upload tit pics because maybe that’s the real answer as to why we attract narcs :). Forget empathy. It’s the tits!

          7. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Lol SMH, tits pics taking over narcsite! Feel the power!

  5. amanda SNapchat says:

    HG Tudor: Could you please create an article analyzing Michael Jackson? I know you are the only one in the world who can provide a deep perspective on the legend MJ.
    Thank you

    1. amanda snapchat on the laptop says:

      I just saw the documentary of leaving neverland. I think MJ is clearly a narc. He gave the kids the golden period; then turned them and their families into his lieutenants; he did triangulation with them; placed them on shelfs. Text book narc. I wonder what typoe of narc MJ is tho. Is it a midranger where he wants everyone to feel sorry for him? What do others think?

      1. WhoCares says:

        amanda snapchat,

        You really should go check out the recent thread in “The Narcissists Reality Gap”…

        There had been much discussion about Michael Jackson.

        1. amanda SNapchat says:

          Thank you! I started reading it. My narc reminds me of MJ. He pretends to be this innocent kid-like person. I started to think he was a mid-ranger because his kid-like behavior is to give pity too. But I saw HG says MJ is a greater, because he knew what he was doing. That is my guy too. he does fucking know 🙁
          He always talks about my pure heart. of course he sees it.
          Thank you HG and everyone for making things clear.
          BTW I think i just met a super empath. it was amazing. what great energy. Also they really get me and can understand a situation deeply

          1. WhoCares says:

            You’re welcome, amanda SNapchat.

  6. SMH says:

    “Do not suggest that you will meet with us to execute the request. This will cause us to see an opportunity to gain fuel and deny the request or string it out and delay.” – I had to meet with MRN to execute the request because I had to watch him do it (delete our thousands of emails). He did not deny the request to see him (“good egg” that he thought he was), though I did not tell him what it was about until he arrived. But he did try to extract fuel, as HG says, and he strung it out for days, as HG also says. It was hell.

    HG, perhaps you should modify this post to keep up with the digital times because I cannot be the only one who needed to watch MRN comply with my request (which was made very nicely and lightly, until he started stonewalling, at which point I had to issue threats).

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You should have had a third party supervise.

      1. SMH says:

        Hmmm. That never occurred to me. In any case, all of the fuel extraction and stringing things out took place over email. Since part of the manipulation was acting like we had made a plan when we had not and then not canceling the plan we had not made (making me hang around all day), I did not know when he was coming. If I’d had someone else write to him he would not have answered.

        When I finally threatened to go to his house, he set a date and time (and stuck to it). The actual deletion of the emails went very smoothly. I could have had someone there for that, but it wasn’t the worst part of the ordeal and he wasn’t violent or anything like that.

        At least I learned not to carry on over email. First, you end up writing things over the course of several years (we averaged 200 emails a month when we were in contact) that could be used to smear/blackmail you. Second, you read things into messages that are deliberately ambiguous. Third, it makes you think things are more real than they actually are. Fourth, those emails were like crack – addicting!!

    2. Mercy says:

      SMH, I did this once with pics he had of me stored on his computer. I went to his place to drop his things off but I really was on a mission to get those pics deleted. After alot of discussion & arguing he finally deleted them. I made him go through emails, his pic documents and his trash bin…fast forward 3 years, he told me after I left he spent the next few days researching how to recover them. He got them back. Lesson learned, anything digital can be recovered.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        I thought that as well but didn’t mention it. Things can be saved elsewhere and recovered easily. Because you witness them being deleted doesn’t mean they don’t still exist.

        1. Mercy says:

          NarcAngel, yea I figured the only way to truly know they’re gone is to burn his house down. Even then there no guarantee. I’m satisfied knowing I have dirt in him that could ruin his Big Show name. We both have weapons to ensure neither talk. I’m fine with that.

          1. NarcAngel says:

            Yes. Aside from their own concerns, I just hope parents are discussing this with their kids who send compromising photos like they’re trading stickers. Those can be retrieved and pop up down the line, and who knows what opportunities would be lost or doors closed. So many people even use company phones. Big mistake.

          2. Mercy says:

            NarcAngel, I agree. When your young you don’t think about things like that. Kids live in “the now” with no thought on how it’ll affect their future. Adults are just as bad though. I know when I first started dating again when my kids got older, the game changed. I was naive to digital dating.

          3. SMH says:

            I was naive too, Mercy. I was actually pretty shocked. As I said, I sent very few fully covered up with my face not visible. Irishman once asked me for one (after we had met) and I held off for a very long time. Eventually, I sent one (again fully covered) but I told him it wasn’t me! Ha.

          4. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Mercy, exactly. I have more compromising material from him than he does from me. We both have weapons but while he may have a bullet or two I have nuclear bombs. And he urged me to delete everything immediately after he sent it but guess what…

          5. Mercy says:

            SP, haha they think we’re dumb. I was unaware of what a narcissist is and what they are capable of but I was not unaware of the meaning “cover your ass”.

          6. SMH says:

            I do too just in case he did recover those deleted emails and ever tries to do anything with them. Sad that things turned out with all of us weaponized with evidence.

          7. Sweetest Perfection says:

            SMH, well, in my case I was not intending to keep any weaponized evidence, it was just him and his love for his own dick which provided me with tons of evidence, to his own detriment.

          8. SMH says:

            lol SP. I did not plan to either but I have unsolicited dick pics too with his face clearly visible, a screen shot of him contacting me on a dating site, which I took because he had disengaged weeks earlier (or I had, still not sure which) after he told me he was reconciling with IPPS (first I’d heard of her), a WA conversation that I forwarded to my own email in case he deleted me, with his name, number and face, etc. I also have him responding with his fake email to the fact that I found out his name, which I used in the emails just so he would respond and I’d have a record connecting him to the fake email.

            In the end, I don’t really need any of it because I have inside info, dates, places, schedules, all of the evidence I would need. It’s all in a long letter I wrote to IPPS but never sent.

          9. Sweetest Perfection says:

            SHM, I’ll see your cards and raise you videos. And not of Sponge Bob precisely.

          10. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I forgot to say I also will never use any of this nor would I ever hurt him in any way. Unless I need to defend myself.

          11. Mercy says:


            “It was just him and his love for his own dick”. This cracks me up. I know HG says a narcissist can not love but dang, I think there could be an exception in this case. His favorite subject was his dick. I’ll confess it was his best feature, but come on!!

          12. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Mercy, it was his best feature too. I can say he was just a dick, both literally and figuratively.

          13. Mercy says:

            Sp, Hahaha yep!

          14. SMH says:

            Mine’s best feature and favorite subject (and favorite object) was also his dick (and he was also a dick).

          15. HG Tudor says:


          16. SMH says:

            It’s Ree-DICK-ulous to my ear, Mr Tudor.

          17. HG Tudor says:

            I wouldn’t be letting it go near your ear, SMH, that could lead to a mind fuck!

          18. Mercy says:

            Hahaha Best!

          19. SMH says:

            My response is better, though HG’s comment did make me spit my coffee out.

          20. Mercy says:

            SMH, stop with the spitting comments. I can’t control where my mind is going in this convo

          21. SMH says:

            No worries, Mercy. I am all spitted out and must get to work (or back to work) now. I had a virtual meeting right before this exchange, so I think it was pent up jollies! 🙂

          22. Lou says:

            And her ear losing its virginity. Too painful.

          23. SMH says:

            lol well as a Greater, you are probably too well endowed to fuck my mind, especially through my ear.

          24. HG Tudor says:


            I do not need my endowment to fuck with people’s minds of course, but that does not occur in this place.

          25. SMH says:

            I know you only need your mind for head fucks plus I am eternally grateful that you don’t do that here.

      2. windstorm says:

        “Anything degital can be recovered.”

        That is very true. Our Kentucky State Police have machines they can plug a phone into and pull up any picture, text or email ever on it. The technology is definitely out there.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Most people have backups, photo vaults, and a separate usb that they save pics to just in case anything happened to their computer and they got wiped out or deleted. I bet most narcs are careful to preserve their collections.

          1. windstorm says:

            I agree.

          2. SMH says:

            Maybe but thankfully, I did not send risque pictures.

        2. Mercy says:

          Windstorm, omg there was a time I had things on my phone that if anyone saw I’d want to crawl under a rock. I won’t even plug my phone in at the Walmart photo center to upload photos. My luck something would pop up on one of their big screens.

          I am more sensible now. Like I said lesson learned about digital stuff

          1. windstorm says:

            Ha, ha! The St Trooper who does our drug abuse program at school told the middle school kids that all their parents have to do is come by State Police Post and ask to hv them check their kids phones and every picture they’ve ever taken, sent or received will pop up. Totally shocked silence!!

          2. NarcAngel says:

            Haha! Wow. Bet there could have been a clean up on aisle 3 when he told them that.

          3. Mercy says:

            Windstorm, hahaha dang I needed that when my kids were young.

          4. SMH says:

            Mercy, I used to freak out when FB would automatically upload pictures whenever I logged in on my phone. I learned to turn that feature off.

      3. SMH says:

        Mercy, That sucks. I can’t believe BS worked so hard to recover everything! But I surely understand the feeling of wanting all of it gone. Lesson learned, right?

        Our stuff was all on email, which MRN deleted using my computer because he could not do it on his phone for some reason. I don’t think he can recover them once the email trash is deleted (which I also made him do) unless his email client supports it. I do not know which version he had but I doubt he would go through the trouble anyway.

        I used my real email while he used a fake one and I only sent him two pics, but my face was not visible and they were not that risque. I said I would use my fake email for more, but I never did because we did not do many pics – me because it was all new to me and I was not comfortable – and him I guess because I never asked.

        I have evidence (e.g. unsolicited dick pics in which his face is visible, a screen shot from him on a dating site after he contacted me, a WA chat) but it is just proactive self-defense and sits in my email and in a folder on my computer. I never did anything with any of it.

        1. Mercy says:

          SMH, I won’t do anything with mine either. Him knowing I have years of stuff should keep him in line. I remember the first time he threatened me. He was going to send pics to my kids and boss. I stayed calm and started listening everything I had in my arsenal. The rage in his face was terrifying. He knew I had him and when he realized what I could do with that info he was furious. I was never scared of him but in that moment I knew I was in danger. I never brought it up again and he’s never threatened me either. It was effective but not something I want to follow through with.

          1. SMH says:

            Mercy, Wow. He threatened to send pics to your kids and boss? That is really scary and low (and illegal, I believe – it’s revenge porn). I went on a date with a guy last year who confessed that he sent a letter to his lover’s husband, which broke up their marriage (she then ran off with someone else) AND threatend to post her pics on the internet. Needless to say, I did not see him again. My MRN is very low drama on his end (he causes it in other people but never loses his cool himself). He never threatened me with anything. I think when I began to realize the depths of his depravity, I started spinning all of these what ifs in the my head, which is why I decided to make him delete the emails. That sort of stuff – the pics, emails, etc, make them feel like they still have control over us.

          2. Mercy says:


            Sounds like you avoided alot of drama with that guy! Are you still putting dating on hold while you’re out of the country?

            You did the right thing by having him delete the emails then getting out. Even if he could retrieve the emails it gave you a sense if power and probably helped your escape.

            In my situation, yes he did threaten me. I instantly group text my kids and said “block BS. Don’t ask why”. Yes I believe it’s illegal. I knew someone whos ex did this. Her child was a minor so I’m not sure if that is why it was considered illegal. I remember he did threaten me another time. It was through text, said he would send pics to someone important that I was dealing with at work. I text him one word “screenshot”. I’ve told you before but our ending was very ugly. I could have avoided alot of conflict if I had gotten out early like you did. My only excuse is that he never showed his true self until the end and I was too trusting in the beginning.

          3. SMH says:


            What you describe is pretty ugly and scary, mostly because one doesn’t see such things coming until it is too late and at that point not only are you suddenly realizing what you are dealing with (the ‘true self’) but you have to act quickly. I am glad you were able to head him off and you see now why I had to get those emails deleted. That followed MRN twisting himself into knots to get my attention post-escape, an inadvertent wounding, a blow up, silent treatment, him basically coming unhinged – his true self emerging. I don’t think he would have done anything like what BS threatened because he had too much to lose and he was very low drama in general – the calmest person during most of the FR – but I did not really know for sure.

            Revenge porn is illegal in some states (not sure where you are) no matter who it is sent to. It is the act of releasing sexually explicit pictures without consent into the public domain or sending them to someone for whom they were not intended. Sending them to a minor would be an extra offense. But you’d have to look up your state laws.

            I haven’t dated anyone since Irishman. I’ve had no time, plus I developed a crush on another married narc I work with (I think he’s a narc – put a question in to HG about that last night), which did the trick of taking my mind off of other men, including Irishman. Things fizzled out with him, which tells me that my instincts were right. Nothing really there.

            The problem is that when I am not interested in anyone else, my mind drifts back to MRN and those are dangerous moments, so I kind of use work narc as a mental crutch (not looking to get involved). But as I said, I don’t have time to join the dating pool for distractions and I don’t forsee having time. I also don’t foresee finding anyone who would tolerate my lifestyle. I’ve barely been home the past two weeks and I have a lot of travel this year. It is all exciting and work related. I am MUCH happier because my true love is my work but in my personal life MRN is one of only two men (the other is my son’s father) to ever understand and accept that. With MRN I didn’t have to explain, apologize, or put up with petulance, except post-escape.

            I doubt MRN would have accepted such a lifestyle from an IPPS but from me as IPSS, he did. That is yet another reason why it was a good set up for me – I did not mind playing second fiddle, as long as he was respectful and consistent, which of course he was not.

  7. DEMBunny says:

    With my MMR I just mention what I want a few times,
    Or pitch a tiny fit
    , and then don’t text for a couple days. LOL works every time

    I want to say I only started doing this in the last couple months as part of my “research” LMAO
    But I’m DLS so, pretty good fuel source I guess.

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