Narc Magnet


You are a magnet. You attract our kind. You have done so at least once and you will continue to do so. Again and again. There is no hope for anything else. As an empath, super empath or co-dependent you radiate with the traits which draw us to you. Hitherto you had no awareness that this was the case. You would enter a room and be oblivious to the heads that turned your way as our kind detected your presence. You would have noticed that you were receiving the attention of people, but back then you had no knowledge of who was engaging with you or why that was the case. You have several sets of traits which appeal to us. These are the empathic traits, the class traits and the special traits. It is your empathic traits which stand out most of all.

These are evident in the way that you behave, the words you say, the gestures you use and the expressions that form on your face. The way your interact with people, the way you look about a room, the way you walk, the way you sit, the place you decide to sit and so many other things indicate to us your empathic nature. In the same way that everything we do is marked with the taint of our narcissism, everything that you do is stamped with the essence of your empathic traits.

When you walk into the hunting ground of our kind, you are identified promptly as exhibiting potential. It is as if you give off a fuel signature, like some kind of scent which our kind smells and recognises as soon as you come near. You once did not see the Lesser as he leant against the bar and noticed you as soon as you entered the premises, his eyes fixed on you as he observed your entrance. The Mid-Ranger would look up from where was sat and find himself drawn to you, that unmistakable essence which you give off, being picked up and identified. Both Lesser and Mid-Range would not know why they wanted to engage with you save that they felt a compulsion to do so.

This need arises in the same way that a lion knows that it is hungry and therefore it must find some prey. The Lesser and the Mid-Ranger’s antennae twitch as you the empath walk through the bar. They are alerted to your presence and then they will watch and pick up on the other indicators which tell them what you are.

The Greater sees you and knows what you are. His lascivious grin indicative of the thoughts which are running through his mind as he begins to assess your suitability. You are signalling to him who you are, that you are empathic, that fuel is passing him by and an opportunity has presented itself.

Once upon a time you were oblivious. You walked through this den of narcissistic intent, unaware of the parasitic creatures that waited to climb down from their waiting perches so that they could engage with you, coil about you and draw you into their web with their silver-tongues and charm. You just thought they were being pleasant, polite and taking an interest. You had no idea how much danger you were in as you allowed your empathic traits to shine like a beacon. Each and every day you radiated these traits, issuing a sub-conscious “come and get me” to our kind. How good it felt to receive this attention. How pleasant it was to be courted in this manner.

As our kind picked up on your empathic scent and were drawn to you, they sought additional confirmations, assessing your class traits and hopefully special traits too, through a combination of instinct and design, dependent on which school of narcissist you had engaged with.

You do this as as easily as you inhale and exhale. Your traits are imprinted on you and they are indelible. They are part of your core and you cannot remove them. You cannot flick a switch and turn off these empathic traits. They are you. Imagine you will if some kind of glasses were created which allowed a physical representation of your empathic traits as hues of red light. If one donned those glasses and looked into this hunting ground as above, a bar perhaps, then one would see several things.

First there would be the normals who would have a slight red glow about them, indicating some empathic traits but limited in number and extent. There would be the dark and empty spaces which are where our kind lurk, the empathic traits completely devoid. Next one would see the dancing trails of scarlet and rose that signify the empath. The roaring flames of riotous red which blaze and indicate the presence of the super empath and then the supernova of bright red which is the signature of the co-dependent. As your gaze swept the room, one would see these differing hues and varying intensity, all indicative of the ever present empathic traits.

It is impossible for you to become incognito. You are unable to remove your empathic traits. You cannot switch them off and pass undetected. Accordingly, you will always stand out to our kind. You will always be identifiable, you will be seen and therefore if our kind is in the vicinity, whether physically proximate or through the accessibility of technology, we will be drawn to you. Like sharks which scent blood, like the hungry dog which smells meat, we pick you out and converge on you in anticipation of the fuel that will flow from you.

You will aways be a magnet for our kind. You have been created with empathic traits and you will always keep them. You will remain that beacon which we see and flock to. You will always attract us.

Of course you may learn to dampen down the manifestation of your empathic traits by altering some of your behaviours. Certain actions, words and gestures might be reduced, lessened and altered to reduce the extent of the empathic traits which you exhibit, but your traits always shine through and you cannot maintain this cloaking for long. It is contrary to who you are how you conduct yourself. Your empathic traits are so extensive that even when you have suffered the beasting at our hands and mouths, that when you have been drained, numbed and exhausted, the empathic traits will remain.

The empath will not shine with them as brightly and following the full horror of the devaluation and discard,t he empath will not function with such an obvious display of empathic traits because the brutality of the treatment will cause some diminution in function and display.

The super empath will continue to display these empathic traits because this person has the capacity to endure so much and then still have sufficient function to escape what has happened, once there is the eventual realisation as to what has happened. Once the super empath has had enough, they will seek their escape and their empathic traits continue to shine brightly.

The co-dependent, no matter how brow-beaten, how ground into the dirt he or she is, will continue to exhibit those empathic traits because the co-dependent would rather give you his or her last breath rather than take it for themselves. They continue to give, even when there seems there is nothing more that can be taken and thus their empathic traits remain on display.

This is why it is so often the case that you are almost passed from one of our kind to another. You are discarded but your empathic traits remain evident and thus another of our kind flocks to you, ready to gorge on the fuel which is generated by your empathic traits. Even if you escape, you continue to signal your suitability to us. You are unable to do anything other than stand out in this way.

It is only when you have gained the insight and understanding into knowing who it is that you keep attracting and why, that you finally learn what to watch out for. You cannot change what you are, indeed, why should you? What you can alter is your ability to identify us when we make that bee-line for you. As you radiate empathic traits, we also exhibit the narcissistic traits which once understood and once recognised in the behaviour of the everyday, mean you finally see and take notice of the red flags, flashing lights and blaring klaxons which herald this danger.

You will always be destined to be a magnet for us. That will never change. We will flock to you, be attracted to you and seek you out, our instincts seeking that scent of the empath which tells us that our needs will be met and fuel will be provided.

You will draw our interest and attention because the empathic traits flow from you. You will, once you gain the knowledge and understanding, know who it is who has joined you at the bar and flashed you that winning smile and then you can the seize the power.

109 thoughts on “Narc Magnet

  1. Fiona says:

    Oh my goodness. This is really intense and eyeopening.

  2. mk3714 says:

    This piece so keenly illustrates the narc’s adeptness at target identification. I “got it” from other readings, but not quite in this way. This piece has provided a sort of visual representation for me of the narc’s ability in this regard– a cerebral tattoo, if you will. Very much needed, and very much appreciated, Mr. Tudor!🙏

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

  3. S says:

    I believe you’re missing a word here ” It as if you give off a fuel signature, “

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you.

  4. ava101 says:

    The alien reptile antennae?

    That’s exactly how I feel, and I also feel it’s simply hopeless.
    I sometimes feel like I do nothing else but weed them out, but there are no good ones left in between … normals are not drawn to me, and esp. not v.v.

    Do you actually believe that there could be the same intensity between two empaths? Or is it ALL really just illusion and addiction, those feelings of being high, and all …

    I miss them, and then it’s like it had never existed .. and they even merge into one because they’re all so much the same … but I keep repeating the same over, and over, and there is no change in sight.

  5. Melisha says:

    This was incredibly insightful. I always wondered why my narc has continued to try to get back in my life over a decade after leaving him. I thought perhaps It was his ego. If he could read capture the one smart enough to see him and run away. That would be more fulfilling than the one who has stayed with him all this time. He loves having his submissive one. But what he’d prove to himself to capture the incapturable if you will. ..

  6. Abw Flying says:

    I’m on most narcissist’s fridge.

    1. Claire says:

      You are the fridge.. we all are

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Haha. True.

        1. Claire says:

          We have to learn to electrocute them when they “stick a finger in it.”

      2. SMH says:

        lol Claire.

  7. Empower Empaths says:

    Wow, I’m interested in some ideas about to how to “dampen” these traits in certain situations. Such as in a bar or when meeting new people. Or when interacting online. I think this could be something to use in addition to knowing all about your kind. (I’m doing this a bit already, sometimes not responding etc when normally I would) thank you HG!!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You cannot dampen your traits, what you need to do is increase your knowledge of our kind, reduce emotional thinking, identify the red flags (through increased knowledge) and then heed them (through reduced emotional thinking). Consult with me and I shall be able to assist you in achieving this.

  8. It's All About Me says:

    I feel doomed for the rest of my life to repeat this horrible cycle.

    1. shesaw says:

      Hey It’s All About Me, it can feel that way, but you are not doomed, you can seize the power!

    2. Claire says:

      You are far from doomed. You would be perhaps if you weren’t here but you are here!

  9. It's All About Me says:

    Okay, like reading that just didn’t creep me the f* out…….

  10. Disappointed Again says:

    HG, how do I seize the power? Which book of yours contains this knowledge?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      All of them.

      1. shesaw says:

        It is probably true (didn’t read all of them). But Fuel is a very good start!

    2. Empower Empaths says:

      All his books are amazing but to pick one I would say Fuel

    3. Melisha says:

      The knowledge of knowing what they are, how they work, is your power. When you realize it is indeed them, not you, who is messed up, you can walk away without regret. I left mine over ten years ago. He still stalks me to this day. Hoping one day I will be broken enough to come back. All he sees is how much stronger I’ve gotten without him around. How easy he really is to forget. That is regaining your power! Simply quit caring

  11. J.G THE ONE says:

    Hello, H.G.Tudor.
    Good looking from this point of view and ready for combat. If you know that the problem is the link, you could give a roll and other things, butterfly. You take advantage and finish. You identify it, fuck it and send it to hell. You create a narcissistic wound and laugh at him in the face.
    All with your empathic Angel face. They’ll never know you’ve located them the same way.
    The bad thing about this plan is that you end up devoured not by the narcissist but by yourself and your emotional thought. At the end of the day, more fear gives me empathic thoughts and ways of thinking than the narcissist himself.
    Especially my own codependent thoughts.
    HG you say I am like a plant rooted in the soil of my narcissist. What a good simile.
    My roots, they grow wide and so deep. That the process of cutting and unrooting has been quite difficult for me. So there was no way to get rid of my narcissist.
    HG has described me perfectly.

  12. pavotdeschamps says:

    HG, how does your kind detect the Contagion empath ? Where would it fall in your hues of red light analogy? Or your resilience assessment ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Contagion Empaths have the empathic, class and special traits as described in Sitting Target and are thus detected in the ways described there.

      1. pavotdeschamps says:

        Thank you. I will read it again.

      2. pavotdeschamps says:

        HG, Sitting Target was a good read, but I found nothing there about the Contagion school. Thus my questions remain unanswered. Should I dare ask again?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Hello PDC, I am pleased you enjoyed the read. You’ve slightly misunderstood me. I did not say that you will find a section on Contagion Empaths there, I explained that the traits that they have namely empathic, class and special are detailed in Sitting Target. Contagion Empaths belong to the Empath Group and therefore what is written in ST with regard to empathic, class and special traits applies to them. I trust that clarifies.

          1. pavotdeschamps says:

            It does. Thanks. But where do the Contagion Empaths fall in your hues of red light analogy? This really caught my imagination. It is a beautiful analogy.

        2. Narc noob says:

          Pavotdeschamps, sitting target is also a book.

          1. pavotdeschamps says:

            Hello Narc noob. I have the book but I did not remember having read something about the Contagion school of Empaths in there.

        3. Twilight says:


          I hope when HG releases the article on the Contagion things will be clearer….

          What is it your searching for?

          1. pavotdeschamps says:

            A much awaited article, indeed!

            I am searching for a way out of this nightmare, Twilight. A consult with HG in the next few days should help with that.

            In the mean time, I shall donne those glasses that HG talks about and have a better look at the luminous Contagion red BALL LIGHTNING, an unexplained and potentially dangerous atmospheric electrical phenomenon … for Narcissists!!!

          2. Twilight says:


            “luminous Contagion red BALL LIGHTNING, an unexplained and potentially dangerous atmospheric electrical phenomenon … for Narcissists!!!”

            I like that description of a Contagion. If they have no idea they have a Contagion within their grasp they have no idea what comes within the chaotic storm they brew up within them. It is when they are in the moment enjoying it is when the narcissist is brought to their knees…..stepping into their shoes is hell thou in itself because you will feel what they feel and the realization you intentionally hurt another hits you like a tsunami….this is where they have the upper hand they don’t feel guilt or remorse and they will always have this upper hand. If I can learn to control those two emotions there isn’t a narcissist that will ever have the upper hand over me again.
            I do not fear them, I just want nothing to do with them now. They step into my playground I know and society has made it so I am not recognized as my true self until it is to late, they believe they have found one of the other 3 schools until they look in my eyes and I show them what they really have found they usually leave me alone. I do not believe that would work with a Greater so I leave when I feel that “energy” approaching. They have the upper hand their awareness makes them dangerous if they can read what will “seduce” me it can happen and I will fall in love with them.
            The predator is only as good as the prey they stalk….so the prey best be better at identifying and eluding them. If it comes to a fight for survival… claws are razor sharp and I am well trained in how to make the first cut deep and lethal. They may take me down, they will never forget me.

          3. pavotdeschamps says:


            I am glad my fling with HG’s hues of red light analogy has inspired you to share your experience.

            Ball lightning is a rare aerial phenomenon in the form of a luminous sphere that is generally several centimetres in diameter. It usually occurs near the ground during thunderstorms, in close association with cloud-to-ground lightning. It normally lasts only a few seconds, usually moving about, going through solid masses and then vanishing suddenly, either silently or explosively. Ball lightning has been reported to cause damage by burning or melting but is usually harmless. It’s transparent, translucent, evenly lit or radiating flames, filaments or sparks. Ours is red. In relation to this empathic trait, I feel like the teenager, Violet, in Pixar’s computer animated film The Incredibles. For me it’s instinctive, I am naturally weaponised, but it would be wise to further my understanding of this power in order to better harness it.

            It has provided me with a keen insight into the personality and the workings of my narc. For example, while attending a meeting, I saw my narcissist colleague as the personification of wrath and pride. In that vision, vision he was attacking my core beliefs and it was hurtful. I just could not let it slide. I wanted to disengage from him (even though we had not formally engaged), but he had already uncoiled his tendrils (I saw them deploying on two occasions) and I had this nagging feeling of being “connected” to him. So I decided to confront him about this. Silly me! Of course he denied everything, he also gaslighted me and love bombed me in the process. A few days later he started his devaluation of me. That’s when I decided to put a definite end to this. I did not know exactly what he was then, but I decided that I had better follow my instinct and protect myself. This was a spur-of-the-moment decision. I caught him off-guard with a most inspired and gentle breakup e-mail that unknowingly presented a mirror to his face. He responded in kind within minutes and I did not see nor hear from him for three weeks after that. I found out later that he had gone on a two-weeks “vacation” two days after receiving my e-mail. I believe that he collapsed and had to go into hiding to lick his wounds. The strike of the luminous red Ball lightning was swift and aiming at the core. It had an absorbing effect, hence the collapse of the narcissist.

            When I saw him again at work, he greeted me with a small manifestation of heated fury that made me feel terrible and that reeled me right back in. That was the beginning of my active research to find out what he was. Emotional thinking can be our worst enemy.

  13. SMH says:

    HG, if empaths cannot change who they are and narcs cannot change who they are, what is the best way for an empath to deal with a narc without being rude? If we dim our empathic traits, we feel rude – at least I do. I am having this problem with work narc. I don’t know how to act around him when he zeros in on me. It’s feeling like it did with MRN – like we have this secret empath/narc language. I need to put a halt to it before it gets out of hand, but without alienating him. Can you point to a famous person who is a normal? Or a movie scene that contains a normal and a narc? That way, maybe we can study it and have a model for how not be a magnet.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Your sensation of rudeness is common and it is your ET corrupting your empathic trait of decency. You may feel that you are being rude, but you are not logically being rude because you are entirely justified in ignoring the individual who is a narcissist. Reject the effect of your ET and ignore this individual, you are allowed to do this. You can alienate the individual, your ET makes you think you must not do so, in order to further your engagement.

      1. SMH says:

        Wow. That is a really brilliant response, HG. Thank you. It never occurred to me that the feeling of being rude was my ET speaking. Somehow, when people demand attention I feel obliged to give it. That was a huge part of my problem with MRN. It goes on and on and on until I reach a breaking point. I have to examine that issue in myself. It is a relief to know that I am not being rude simply because I am not engaging. Thank you again. I feel like this was a major breakthrough.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome.

          1. Claire says:

            Most of the stuff that comes out of your mouth is a breakthrough actually. I feel like I’m in life school. But it’s pleasant enough and it’s more interesting than Montel Williams ever was. My mom is even starting to like you because she senses I’m irritating her less by means of a state of confusion.

        2. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

          SMH. Brilliant answer indeed! We have to learn all this: It is as if we are babies just learning how to walk. HG Tudor has to run and catch us and scoop us up, when we haphazardly cross the way, so that we don`t get hit by a passing Narc. Maybe HG can write a post on how Empaths can safely walk and talk when Narcs are around, if he has not done so. Or, how empaths can ignore narcs and still hold on to their sanity and humanity. Unbelievable.

          1. SMH says:

            lol PSE. I love that image of HG saving us toddlers from passing narcs. I will think of every bus as a narc from now on. I would love for HG to write a post about how to be a healthy empath around a narc. He could call it ‘Look Both Ways’!

          2. SJ says:

            In my fantasy, Mr Tudor certainly isn’t a paedophile.

            Safely walk and talk around Ns? Good film idea, PSE. Some archaeologist extracts the DNA of Mr Tudor (hundreds of years from now) and realises he was a parasitic Narcissist who lived on Empathic Fuel – but then goes on to re-create thousands of Narcissists, as fuel can’t be detected via blood.

          3. NarcAngel says:

            Haha. Great film title.

          4. SJ says:

            Raiders of the lost Narc (ha).

          5. SMH says:

            lol SJ. Remake of Night of the Living Dead.

        3. Mercy says:

          SMH, that IS good advice! I do the same thing thinking I at least need to be polite. HG is right, what on Earth makes us think we have to be polite to someone that would receive pleasure from destroying us emotionally?

          How have you been? I was wondering if office narc was still around.

          1. SMH says:

            Hi Mercy,

            Lovely to hear from you. How are you doing? I read something about your daughter that I wanted to respond to but what I was going to say was too scary and I did not want to freak you out. Is her ex leaving her alone now?

            I also read your comment about the hardware store guys and laughed. Good reason to let your home renovations take forever, or maybe speed them up? In NYC I have to fight off my super. I sometimes need him to fix things but he tells me he loves me and starts pawing me. He’s very sweet but mildly inappropriate. Haha. It’s a balancing act.

            Rudeness: one reason I keep my interactions here on my laptop and not on my phone is that I feel compelled to answer every notification immediately. Virtual communication is bad for empaths and narcs know it.

            I have not seen work narc because I’ve not been in. But the other day about 10 of us had a virtual meeting (narc alert!! ha). I briefly confused him with someone else (they were sharing the portal – just audio). He called me out on it, which was unnecessary because it did not matter and everyone was tallking at the same time at that point. I responded ‘my American ears cannot tell two British men apart.’ Untrue but I was not going to say ‘sorry,’ so instead tried to make a joke that sort of nullified him maybe? I dunno but I think he has me on high alert and defensive, which I have to get past because we have a lot of planning and travelling over the next few months.

          2. Mercy says:

            SMH, I am good. Yes my daughter is dealing with the lesser break-up. She is the one I told you about before. It’s been quite since last Monday and HG says once they go into depression after loosing fuel or find more fuel they are not as dangerous. I hope this is the case and hope he is giving up. I’m proud of her for cutting it off completely but his silence is unsettling too.

            I’m not kidding about the hardware store. I went a couple weeks on a Saturday. It was a discount hardware storw and they we’re were having a huge sale. I walked in and it was like, helllooo eye candy.

            SMH if your super is pawing you that’s more than mildly inappropriate! Haha I know you said you’re older than me but if you were my kid I’d be enrolling you in kickboxing classes. A right roundhouse would take care of that.

            Virtual communication: do you do dating sites and social media on your phone? I suppose with you traveling for work you carry your laptop. I think the last time I got my laptop out was when I did my taxes. I don’t even remember before that. If I’m not working I just use my phone.

            As far as work narc, we need to find you another crush before you start traveling again. Harbor freight, Saturday afternoon. Meet a cute guy, buy a hammer to keep the super away, and you’ll get a free pack of microfiber towels. Win, win, win.

          3. SMH says:

            Mercy, I believe you about the eye candy in the hardware store. A friend married a fireman and is deliriously happy – maybe you should set fire to your newly renovated house? Haha. I am kidding of course (and cracking myself up with my own sick joke).

            Of course one can always use a set of microfibre towels and I definitely need another crush but it won’t be the super, though he is sweet when he isn’t pawing me, as well as age appropriate and has a house in the Caribbean.

            Lessers: Yes, I remember about your daughter. It took my exH Lesser at least a year to give up, and he found more fuel even before I met MRN, which means almost immediately. I hope your daughter’s Lesser has given up now. I think some Lessers can be intimidated – you said you went to the police, yes? I worry for her (and of course I know you are worried too – I am empathically and virtually worrying with you).

            On my phone I only have FB + many messaging apps. Right now, I have messages in two emails, WhatsApp, SMS, etc. I mostly access this site and the email connected to it via the web, though occasionally I post from my phone (narcsite is actually easier to read on a phone than it is on the web). I don’t do dating sites from my phone either (don’t do those anymore at all, really, though maybe I will again).

            Didn’t know there was an app when I met MRN. He was late to our first meeting (he had to travel, I did not) and was messaging me via the app, which I did not have. I went to meet him, waited a bit, went home, checked messages via the web, went back, and there he was in all his narc glory. If only I’d gone to food shop instead of going home. Haha.

            I always have work that has to be done on my laptop, but I don’t get notifications there. If I put my phone in another room, I can concentrate. It’s all deliberate because of my compulsion to answer right away. I took my work email off my phone because of that.

            Just notified that I am seeing work narc on Monday…will have to practice not being rude over the weekend 🙂

          4. Mercy says:

            SMH, take HGs advice. Be rude, ignore and stay away! You don’t need another narcache

          5. SMH says:

            Mercy, I can’t really be rude because we are usually working with a group but I will find someone else in the group to pretend flirt with. That will take care of it. Work narc also does not know my personal situation so I could pretend to get an important message, leave the room, pinch my cheeks, and come back in with a big smile on my face. I am having fun thinking about this.

          6. Mercy says:

            SMH, haha you’re too much.

          7. SMH says:

            Just figuring out what I will wear tomorrow, Mercy. Will give you a report.

          8. SMH says:

            Mercy, Yes! It’s a chemical reaction (cortisol – stress hormones) to being in fight or flight mode all the time. It is really important that we take care of our physical health as well as our mental health after coming out of such a relationship.

          9. nunya biz says:

            Glad to hear update on your daughter Mercy and that you are talking to HG.

          10. Mercy says:

            Thank you, nunya biz

        4. nunya biz says:

          I have had a hard time with this a lot, SMH. I have been training myself to ignore certain types of conversation (ones where I am being hyper-focused on for no reason). It’s funny to me I couldn’t do it before and people do pick up that, because I see other people ignore people all the time and they don’t seem to think anything of it. I don’t feel it’s interfered with my ability to have great, enjoyable patient conversations.

          1. SMH says:

            Nunya Biz, Do you mean here or in real life? I don’t have any problem here flitting from conversation to conversation, skipping things (because there is limited time more than anything else), or carrying on for awhile and then coming back later to the same thread/narrative. I can remember things even if I haven’t interacted with the person for awhile.

            In the real world, I think because narcs easily ignore, we all might be hyper-focused and frustrated. We spend so much time trying to figure out how to get attention, dissecting every little thing, walking on eggshells, trying not to say the wrong thing etc. Our communication strengths and weaknesses are magnified and at their extremes, and our minds are hyper-focused. What I really needed post-escape was sleep.

          2. Mercy says:

            SMH, your second paragraph is so true. You would think that longer into the relationship some of that goes away but it doesn’t. Being hyper-focused becomes the norm. When we go NC it feels like the power got shut off.

          3. nunya biz says:

            Hi SMH, I’ve been gone for a bit, found your comment.
            (I’m in trigger mode with def con level PMS, blech, but my flu is mostly gone)

            I was referring to your original comment about being obligated to interact with people. After reading the blog for awhile I started becoming aware that it is how I have developed so many narc interactions. I dissected that there are portions of my behavior that are about me wanting to be a good person or likable and there are components of that that are selfish, but actually fairly small components of it. Mostly it’s that I genuinely want to be nice. But when a narc hyper-focuses on me I realized that every single time I feel obligated to help maintain the “connection” which plays right into it (that is what they want). I also think that most often (not always, just mostly) if I “dim” my part of the connection to completely ambivalent, it’s amazing how fast they can substitute a different interaction with a different person (gee, that makes me feel less important, doesn’t it!). I’ve had people become very aggravated with me at that moment, but I just try to let it go. I’ve also tried to alter my own version of expectation of other people (when I’m expecting responsiveness). So it just made me aware of what I was doing a little bit better?

            But like I said there is more to it than my self-interest, some of it is genuine desire for connection, which is normal and healthy, that is being taken advantage of, or that I have no need to judge others negatively for the most part. Lately I seem to be developing a pattern of attracting this narc focus by men who are “injured” so walking away and disengaging feels difficult in a different way, but the truth is I think we can sense that weakness in all narcissists we just don’t identify it as obviously. But mainly I’m very wary of people who stare excessively (possessive staring, possessive body language, excessive proximity).

            Btw, I find workplace type flirtatious narcissists with mutual attraction the most difficult to deal with and the most tempting. For me the consistent interaction and the exposure to more personal quirks lends itself to fantasizing and addiction tendencies.

          4. nunya biz says:

            Your welcome, Mercy, I send positive thoughts.

          5. nunya biz says:

            Oh, and no SMH, don’t mean on here. Just mean that feeling you mentioned about not wanting to be rude.

          6. SMH says:

            I seem to have lost track of this thread too or maybe HG just put the comments through.

            Mercy – yes narcs get us to continuously focus on them and when it’s over, it is exactly like a light went out. It’s dim for quite awhile but eventually your eyes will adjust.

            Interesting what you say about work narcs, NunyaBiz, as this is my first ever work narc (or work entanglement of any sort). I tend not to like men I work with because they are not my type. But work narc is different and I think it’s because he’s very much like MRN. Not only are they both narcs and probably mid-rangers, they look somewhat alike (same coloring), they are both scientists and in similar fields, they travel to the same parts of the world, they both have only daughters, they are both married.

            The other day in the meeting – work narc had a conflict – but he stuck his head in, tried to make it look like he was looking at everyone, but he was looking at me. I know because I was watching him. I figured out how to make him turn away. Just stare at him. lol. Not with google eyes or trying to be nice but with a penetrating look without turning away. Kind of an I know what you are look.

            I don’t hyper-focus on here either. Maybe because there are so few narcs! What I like here are the intellectual conversations that don’t ask anything of me emotionally. I find it calming. It must appeal to my narc/avoidant side and not to my empath/anxious side.

            Anyway, NunyaBiz, I am glad you are almost over the flu. PMS be damned. Mercy, we need an update on your daughter and your handymen! 🙂

          7. nunya biz says:


            Ugh…I usually end up attracted to some man (often times a narc) in a “work type” environment…meaning any environment where I’ve got a scheduled, repeated, forced proximity interaction with a group of people and we are focused on some task. Could be education related or anything. But it almost never turns into anything because the idea of a fling like that doesn’t really appeal to me (or married men) at this point in my life unless it were a very true, honest connection with someone. But I get into fantasizing and flirting. And I also know that if a guy was persistent and determined in a certain way I have weak spots.
            But I had that thing recently you were alluding to where I feel like I’m communicating in ESP with someone. Like reading each other’s minds and completely absorbing my focus.
            I agree on the focus thing, that’s the fantasizing part I guess.
            Because of my job now I’m very rarely around any attractive male coworkers. Most of my issues are likely to be female N coworkers (such as someone who asks for way too much or is inconsiderate) or male clients, which is a massive turn-off for me, more than almost anything, and most of them are married, so double turn-off, it’s just a stressful hassle.

            Re: poking his head in, ha that’s what I thought, he must be looking at you, popping up, etc.. Does he change his behavior if you go completely neutral (no fuel)? Like powered off energy?
            Yeah and I agree on the calming part. Narcs sort of draw focus and I have been consciously enjoying the absence of that where I find it because sometimes it’s energy draining/shifting and I realize I lost energy other areas. A very discernible shift in energy and sometimes I find myself angry and stressed and I can trace it directly to the source. It was just hard to figure out how to change it because I didn’t get all the patterns, but it is changeable.

            Every once in awhile, not often at all I get this terrible frustrated, needy feeling like I need stimulation or distraction. Very rarely, but I hate that feeling. I think it’s just the weight of things suddenly or hormones : P.

          8. SMH says:

            Nunya Biz,

            I was thinking as I was reading your comment – that bit about buzz and weak spots – ah yes, boredom. And then I got to the end – needing stimulation or distraction. That is how they get us. But I have to ask myself, what is my role in this? I think I do it out of avoidance – the fantasizing or mind games or whatever are a substitution for a real relationship, which I don’t seem to want anymore.

            I was writing something the other day about always running away from things rather than towards them. I’ve been like this forever. That is why I am a serial monogamist. Then I deleted the comment. But I think it fits here. I have to ask myself why when I KNOW not only is there little chance (dirty streak) that I will get involved but if I did, it would be a disaster. Because I don’t want to deal with the real world.

            A few times I’ve given no fuel and he has jumped in to organize something – once to meet up with me alone, which we did publicly. I told him this wacked out story and he laughed (was I testing him? That’s exactly what I did with MRN). Then he asked to meet up in another country, again alone. I was a bit startled (verbal request with other people around) but it didn’t happen because I did not follow up and I don’t think we overlapped anyway.

            He’s cagey – won’t email directly – always has his minion do the organizing. Today he suggested a day for another meeting (via minion). I can’t be there that day in person, so I gave the choice (via minion) – either Skype or face to face the following week. You’d think he’d email me directly to arrange as that would be easier, I am a key person who needs to be here, his rank is no higher than mine and neither of us normally has minions. I’m not going to email him because then I would be the empathic ‘helper’ giving fuel and a chance to not respond just to test me. So poor minion is getting caught up in this little battle of wills 🙂

            Now that I think he is a narc, everything he does and says is grounds for suspicion!

          9. nunya biz says:

            SMH, I think the same. That some of it for me is about relationship avoidance. But I simultaneously desire connection, so it just comes out wrong. But working through watching it in action while reading about it has helped some in identifying things real time so I can see that it’s not real. I remember you mentioning some “rules”, it seems helpful if those rules are in the intention of honoring yourself and expecting to be seen as a whole person. That’s the main thing about narcissists, that understanding puts me off and makes me not want to get involved. That they see you in pieces. Like you are not all one person. That’s what it seems like to me. That “cagey” behavior you describe seems like something to maybe control the dynamic and establish a hierarchy.

            In that vein, I tend to resent it when someone pays more attention to me when I pay less attention to them. The biggest indicator that I cannot have a successful relationship with someone is when they are nicer when I am rude to them. I absolutely hate that. Because my favorite way to be is loving and affectionate and they put in place a paradox where they cannot accept that behavior in a healthy way or are blind to it if it isn’t functional to their control mechanisms.

            I like to be spontaneously generous. I was really thinking about that, how narcs actually stunt and oppress my natural empathy expressions and that is a significant source of dissatisfaction for me. I think I have experienced a large lack of appreciation in my life that is palpably painful.

            I had a great day the other day because at my new work instead of having a mix of decent men and narc men I have shifted to a higher percentage of actual empath female clients. My first new client must have said “thank you” with such soft gratitude 10 times in a 90 minute time span. I forgot what it feels like to be able to be care giving without someone trying to get more more more out of me to where I have to turn it off and I’m locked down and defensive because I have to manage the outflow of energy. I’m good at what I do, it hurts to not express that and I have built up frustration from being around too much duplicity.

            My client I was complaining about so much that was the last straw had been interrogating me over months and a couple of examples of things he said to me:
            “You think a lot, you should keep things simple, I try to not to analyze things all the time.”
            (what? I don’t even know what he was referring to, it felt out of place)
            Another time I had told him I was bothered at someone about something and he said, “Did you ask your husband about it and did he tell you to calm down?”

            I really don’t need this shit. But especially I consider it nearly evil and destructive because the narcissist cannot see your entire life is happening, I take it personally.
            Sorry if I went on a tangent, I’m probably going to make another comment also.

          10. SMH says:

            Nunya Biz,

            Maybe you are referring to rules I applied to MRN when I was making my final escape. I said you can contact me and I can go to you in an instant, or you can come to me, or we can meet up somewhere. BUT you have to be single, you have to stand on your own two feet, WE each decide what we want, blah, blah, blah. He will never ever follow those rules – in fact he immediately ignored them and of course I let him. That was before my supernova explosion anyway, but now those rules are back in place. He would have to crawl on his knees, beg my forgiveness, swear up and down that he is a changed person (I am kidding here).

            As far as pieces, I totally agree. We are not whole people to them – no one is. They do take the pieces they want. I think it might be some kind of disability – emotional stuntedness or maybe mind-blindness. That is kind of what I am trying to head off with work narc – objectifcation. I’m being assertive so that he cannot ignore the whole of who I am.

            I am glad you are enjoying work and your empath clients. You need that outlet and those connections. That is an amusing story about your dream but careful you don’t let HIM choose where to have dinner. YOU choose. Does your husband not want to have sex or do you not want to? Do you feel too estranged?

          11. nunya biz says:

            Well, SMH, the stimulation/boredom thing and then there is also the concept of a loving sex life, which I think is such a valuable thing for people.

            A fully loving sex life.

            Not just a pornographic sex life or an exciting sex life or an erotic sex life.

            I think that comes back to the narcissists seeing a person in pieces. They are opportunistic. They take the pieces they want. It is disturbing, I have no forgiveness for it and no mercy anymore. Because there is no strength in that. I’ve seen strong men and also I really enjoyed the conversation on here (this page I think) about narcs not being boring, because I relate to it and it is very funny. And I do think “that’s how they get you” like you were saying. But I have seen empath men who are all that and for real and better and I do get excited by empathic men. I just wasn’t telling all the differences properly.

            I never have sex anymore though and I had the funniest dream the other night where I was going on a date with this hot guy and I wanted to make sure to let him be in charge of picking where to go to dinner? Wth was that about?
            He really was *quite* though, too bad I don’t know him in real life. But I was so excited I was going to get laid, I was sitting next to him quietly and in my mind was like
            *BOW CHICKA BOW WOW*
            like *oh he is totally going to get extras*
            but really those extras were for me : P

            Omg, not even any sex in my dream, just a dream I was going to *possibly* have sex later.

          12. nunya biz says:

            Oh, yes, SMH, that’s what it was about your ex. And yeah, that makes sense, I think most of them will ignore a rule or pretend you didn’t say it. Or….agree to it and then “forget”. So with this other work guy I hope you are narc-proofed!
            He sounds like he is N. Sometimes they really can fake, but eh, I dunno, most of them can’t if you are paying attention. I mean really for me it’s an issue of getting my hopes up.

            I can’t have sex with my husband right now. Too much water under the bridge. I had recently been thinking about trying again, and I have considered counseling. Right now we are in a precarious financial position with the house and as I’ve said on here I have no family. At this point I’m concerned about breaking up the kids home, so I likely will not, and we can accomplish more together at the moment that benefits them. They are in a great period of exploring themselves and their sports commitments and figuring out what they want to do with their time and we tag team well as far as managing the schedule. And he is my family, that’s it, there’s no one else. We are getting along. I am absolutely not attracted to him. I have considered trying to reignite it and then he walks in front of me scratching his ass or whatever and I’m like “never mind”. It sounds bad, but during the period over the last year I’d told him no more he really fucked me over emotionally and I just couldn’t believe it, I won’t tell the story, but we are not on the same page EVER as far as what a connected relationship looks like and how to value things- so if it were just the everyday that is inevitable for everyone I wouldn’t have shut off and I didn’t for a very long time, I put in effort for a very long time. He’s never been able to look me in the eyes and tell me how he feels, which is insane, imo, and still part of that brain-block stuff that I’m sick of shouldering. I decided to stop feeling guilty for being a sexual person and for not being attracted to my husband/one family member, because I can say with 100% certainty it’s not all my fault, but that doesn’t stop me questioning myself a lot, feeling frustrated and doing some resentment (not helpful) here and there. We are essentially friends now and we rely on each other a lot. While he does have a couple of family members, I’ve told you about his connection skills, so he cannot be truly close with them, he will always rely on one romantic partner to feel connected. Always. He always has. His extended family has known him to be distant, but does show up and go along, he’s just not passionate about their lives, but he tries to connect through the phone a little more recently. He has some good intentions. The kids find him amusing and consistent overall, which is dad-ish and is good and I pushed for that some.
            I don’t lie to him, ever really, I’m just not into fake lives, but we are not in a fairy tale and I guess I think sometimes people judge others based on their own expectations about how things were supposed to pan out and what they expect to happen in their own lives. In other words, it’s a bunch of shitty projection that I really don’t care for dealing with.
            I figure I’m just making some way over time, I can’t do everything today, just can’t whether I want to or not.
            It sounds crap, but I’m happy-ish at the moment and this is life.

            Phew- sorry I didn’t realize I needed to vent a bit.
            It’s a beautiful day though!

          13. SMH says:

            lol Nunya Biz. Glad your day is going well. You did need to vent and your description of your husband scratching his ass is priceless. I cannot be married anymore ever again. The thought makes me panic. I split with my son’s father (my choice) when my son was five. I always had relationships when he was growing up and he never minded. Was and is very secure. There was nothing really wrong with his father but it was kind of like you describe – a bit Aspie and we weren’t connecting well. I couldn’t see spending the rest of my life like that. If you can handle it, more power to you. It sounds like you are fine right now. Sex isn’t the be all and end all, and it’s not imperative for an individual human’s survival. Don’t worry about the sex. Just take all the time you need to figure out what you are going to do. It doesn’t sound like your husband is going anywhere.

          14. nunya biz says:

            As far as the dream, I really didn’t want to pick the restaurant, I felt he should arrange it and would want to and he was sitting next to me so confident that he knew what he should be doing and I didn’t want to interfere with his intentions. I felt comfortable, like he would just know, but it made me think after I woke up that I’m always going to feel like that.

          15. nunya biz says:

            That’s what I’m doing, SMH. Taking my time. I can’t do it all at once.

            I will address my sex life though, I have to. Love is healing.

  14. baileykaren2011 says:

    I read every blog…I buy books…my heart cannot afford another hit. I live my life in paranoia that every man is a narcissist. I want to date but am not ready because I feel so undesirable and untrusting. Mr. Tudor, do you have a blog or book about the red flags of online dating? I am trying to move on. I am a mess! Thank you.

      1. Thank you!

    1. Claire says:

      HG says to avoid online dating. I’ve seen it mentioned. I went to a park last night with my son—totally got hit on by a dad who was way too smooth for his own good. Normally this would be natural place to meet someone but I readily ascertained he was trouble due to being smooth, his occupation (night club owner) and a way too smooth. It starts coming together for real. Maybe he wasn’t a narcissist but I know he was! I could feel the energy that at one time would have been a huge draw. It’s freaking subliminal. I went out with a healthy person and didn’t feel a damn thing and the normalcy was palpable. Just keep reading.

      1. Mercy says:

        Claire, I found a new place to meet men. Hardware store, Saturday afternoon. It’s like a candy store for men. Just go in and start asking random cute guys how to use this tool or that one. They love feeling helpfull! If you hit it off, bonus points because you know he’ll be able to fix the dryer when it goes on the fritz.

        Ditto on dating healthy men. The excitement just isn’t there.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          However you may be wasting your time with the chap wearing a hard hat who is looking at screws with a Red Indian, Sailor and a Police Officer.

          1. Claire says:

            Muscular hot handyman types are all the rage HG.

          2. lisk says:

            Oh, give her more credit than that, HG!

            I doubt she would try to pick up people from the village.

          3. Mercy says:

            Haha HG, they’d be fun to look at though and they make good friends.

          4. MommyPino says:

            HG, I would not have discovered Narcsite if not for the hot Somatic handyman who seduced me! Don’t underestimate the power of that tool belt!!

          5. Claire says:

            These words speak volumes. Gorgeous men that fix things. My handyman is not much to visualize.

          6. Mercy says:

            Mommypino, that’s sooo true! Haha I forgot that’s why you’re here.

        2. Claire says:

          HG has successfully even ruined casual encounters with his kind. The constant reinforcement of what they are makes it impossible for me to ignore most of the time. Thank you for this HG—it’s the rude awakening I’ve needed and no one could have knocked it out of the park like you.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

          2. Claire says:

            That brand of “fun” is feeling crazy and manufactured. If I have improved clarity now I imagine it will only get better..

          3. Mercy says:

            Claire, you are right. I unconsciously assess everyone I meet now. Even casual flirting with his kind is unappealing where before it would have been fun for a little ego boost. Not only has he ruined it by exposing them to us but he has set the bar too high. None come close in comparison to the greater elite we’ve come to know here.

          4. Claire says:

            It’s a good thing. Maybe normal will look good instead of boring one day. I swear there is an energy now that I’m paying attention to/feeling and trying to be logical. Truthfully I don’t need to even date really.. It just so happens to come up all the time. At the risk of sounding almost imperious I actually just logged off of receiving notifications from my divorce support group on FB. I can’t take the whining, constant illustration of clearly ridiculous dates women go on asking if the interactions are normal. They are never normal. The women stay lost. They get all pasted up at the Clinique counter and take selfies looking for affirmation. They essentially stay stuck and desperately attract more of the same. I’m not doing it. I won’t do it. I’m not better I’m just being educated more effectively. I do post HG’s work at times on there and surely many weren’t with narcissists but they are prime fodder for such entanglements because they are aging and desperate. I am not going to be a toaster oven for some fuck wad again.

          5. Mercy says:

            Claire, I literally lol at your aging and desperate comment. I’m 45 and am content being single. Sure id like to meet someone but I’m in no way desperate. I think societies view toward women that are single at my age bothers me more than actually being single. Your “I’m not going to do it” attitude is exactly how I feel. That right there is self respect in my opinion. I’ll date if and when I’m ready and I’ll do it on my terms.

          6. Claire says:

            I’m also 45 Mercy and I don’t feel a day over 30 and I don’t look old I don’t think. I like spending time with myself. A lot. I have a friend that travels all over the world alone—she’s a hair stylist and can take off whenever she wants as she is independently employed. Loves it. I get it. I feel like I compromised enough time that I cannot do it again. I don’t need affirmation by posting selfies, I don’t want to have hours long talks and ask if it’s normal the next day.. I don’t want a boyfriend to be honest. I have kids and I don’t want them subjected to anyone. Sex every 8.34 days would be ok and dinner weekly.. One woman on the site took a selfie in a helicopter this guy she just met took her on and the look on her face was sad to me because when and if that bubble bursts I could see it was going to sting. This fairy tale stuff is setting us up for unrealistic bullshit. The thought of being love bombed nauseates me. It’s artificial and unnatural. I don’t know how to use a dating site but my friends often joke about swiping left (?) and it kinda feels demeaning. I’m totally not a nice person all the time but some things feel wrong in my gut.

          7. SMH says:

            Claire and Mercy, I am older than both of you, though probably more immature too. I should tell you everything I have done or has happened to me since 45, but then I’d give too much away. Ha. One of my brothers says I am like a cat with nine lives. I might be on eight now (one never knows).

            There is plenty of life left. Age really is just a number. But I am like you right now in that I have no interest in dating. A fling would be nice, but please spare me the babysitting! If I ever online date again, I will put on the profile exactly what I want instead of trying to be coy and cute.

          8. Claire says:

            I told my brother at Easter brunch I wouldn’t date anymore of the same.. He just looked at me with an amused look that spoke volumes. It’s so embarrassing. I know my brothers think I’m crazy. I kid you not there is site you can join to correspond with inmates! Now that is a grand idea!! May as well just join and buy stationery!

          9. SMH says:

            Inmates, Claire. Now there’s an idea. Pick the ones on death row. That way you know for certain you have no future with them and you can fantasize all you like 🙂

          10. Claire says:

            I can’t believe it’s actually a site and that people go there! I mean my odds are already 1/6 right? (More like 50/50 just because I’m breathing) No need to make it higher than it has to be!

          11. SMH says:

            Claire, I was wondering about this recently because lots of women strike up relationships with inmates, sometimes sticking around for years until the inmate is released. Are they co-ds? Empaths? Borderlines? I have no idea, but now that we know, we won’t go (there).

          12. Claire says:

            I don’t know. I’m sure HG does! It’s quite unfortunate so I get the bigger picture of course. Perhaps the threshold is different if a person grew up and their family members were incarcerated and it seems more normal?? Less ridiculous due to their lives and history. They aren’t as dumb as we think maybe. After all I’ve entangled with! Sure, they were handsome and often dashing men but “normal” healthy women would not have stayed after a few encounters!

          13. SMH says:

            True, Claire. Pot, meet kettle.

          14. Mercy says:

            Claire, maybe we could settle for above normal. Normal sounds too, normal. It doesn’t fit.

            “I don’t want to have hours long talks and ask if it’s normal the next day” If you have to ask, it’s not normal.

            If you ever want to date again I’d advise staying away from dating sites. Demeaning is putting it nicely. There are a few good people there but in order to find them you have to weed through the predators. It’s exhausting! Listen to your gut. I think ignoring it is what got us ensnared by the narcissist in the first place and here we are.

            I was like you. After I split from my kids dad I didn’t date until they were older. I’m very comfortable on my own and can’t imagine having to answer to someone about money or purchases or the toilet seat. Ive said it before, I want to meet someone but don’t want to live with them. Someone to be exclusive with but nothing overwhelming. 8.34 days sounds about right (where did that come from??).

          15. Claire says:

            I agree 100%—-I have zero desire to share a home with someone. I don’t want to share finances, none of it. Hours long conversation is a bit much. I don’t even want to have sex every 8.34 days in my house. My bedroom is sterile and I prefer it that way. I’d rather mess up their house and they also have to have fresh sheets that smell like fabric softener on the bed. I did half sleep with a friend not too long ago and the smell of Snuggle was refreshing, although he sucked and I left before it got overly “involved.” Wasn’t worth my time..
            I’m not sure where the time span originated but it seems reasonable I suppose?

      2. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

        Claire. Night Club Owner? That must be fuel supply heaven. Female Cargo unloaded every night. He must be king of the world. I guess I see some of these things more intelligently now. I think I would like a Chef. Maybe I could have my own table and personal wait staff person each night. I dated a Chef once. Too bad it could not work out. And, he was normal. And, I could order whatever I wanted or have something special made and he would leave the kitchen and bring it out to me himself, and it was not lovebombing. He actually liked me. Weird, yes? My goodness.

        1. Claire says:

          A chef oh yes bring on the food!—And a normal one?? Haha. No it is fuel supply heaven—I have seen it first hand years ago. I just didn’t know at the time why the guy was so giddy in the role of a king. I’m done dealing with this issue up close and personal any more than I have to. I’m not going to be someone’s toaster or microwave. It grosses me out to think of my pathetic relationship history.

  15. SJ says:

    You speak so highly of us, Mr Tudor – it’s flattering. Those charming words just roll off your reptilian tongue.

    Is it only the Greater school that notices their surroundings with such fine detail and then go on to express them so well? If my MRs thought-process and deliverance of said findings were written like that, I would have had more respect for him (and swoon factor).

    Well, I can’t be a co-dependant (like my mum) after reading this. I always thought I was though.

    1. Deborah says:

      Mr Tudor made a joke!! Ah, first his charm and now his sense of humor!! 🙂

      1. SJ says:

        He’s made tons of them, Deborah. A lot of them neatly packed away in his articles. I prefer the blatant ones haha.

  16. Deborah says:

    Thank you; Mr. Tudor, I needed this.

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