The Support Forum Fraud

There are many online support forums that exist with regard to the issue of narcissism and narcissistic abuse.

I have previously moved amongst the shadows of these blogs, Facebook sites, Twitter pages and so forth, observing and absorbing the behaviours that I have witnessed. There are those which provide information. Others are the cathartic disclosures of victims who are seeking to warn as well as recount their own horrors alongside their journey or recovery. There are others which are there to assist people in healing from the trauma they have suffered. The quality and reliability of them varies. Amidst the proliferation of support forums lurk our kind.

There is no doubt that our kind inhabit these places. Indeed, from time to time Lesser and Mid-Range Narcissists have appeared and frequented my blog. Easy for me to spot, but less so for others. Naturally, narcissists appear at other sites and forums, commenting and interacting. Those narcissists will gain some fuel from the interaction with the people on that forum, but more specifically they will look to befriend a fellow commenter or two and take their interaction off blog and onto private messaging, the telephone, Skype and ultimately meeting in person. The Tertiary Source becomes a secondary source and the provision of fuel increases in potency, quantity and frequency. A separate article will cover that type of interaction.

The narcissist also operates on these support forums in a different capacity ; that of moderator, administrator or host.

How does this manifest?

First of all, if a Greater operates such a forum then he or she will be open about the fact, confirm what they are and explain much about the way we think and operate. These sites are extremely rare. Greaters are very rare and those which operate sites similar to mine are even rarer. However, those that do exist make it clear what the site is and who is operating it. This rarity and the common misunderstanding that all narcissists do not know what they are, leads some people to regard such sites in a mistaken manner.

Secondly, a Lesser would not operate such a forum. He or she has no idea what he or she is and being utterly devoid of empathy (including cognitive empathy), it would never occur to the Lesser to devise such a site. They have no interest in appearing as a saintly figure and they have no desire to listen to the woes of others. The Lesser will frequent the forums but they will not run them, indeed they prefer to utilise someone else’s work to enable them to boast about their own (supposed) encounters with a narcissist and then take centre stage as they brag about their life style, attack other commenters and do so with an utter lack of awareness as to their behaviour and of course, what they are.

Thirdly, it is the Mid-Ranger who poses the problem with regard to the creation and running of these forums. Why the Mid-Ranger? Again, he or she does not know what she is but these sites appeal to them because:-

  1. They are able to engage in their façade management. The Mid Range Narcissist genuinely believes that he or she is a good person, a decent person , an empathic person. It is other people who are the horrible, abusive narcissists. Not them.
  2. The site gives them an excellent vehicle to sound off about their own perceived mis-treatment. The Mid Ranger loves a good Pity Party, Compassion Conference or Sympathy Symposium and those that interact with these people buy into this.
  3. It enables them to continue a campaign against those the Mid Range Narcissist perceives as the abuser. Thus the ex-girlfriend, the parents, the boss or the once upon a time best friend, all find themselves routinely smeared and the validation that the site’s readers provides to the Mid Range Narcissist only goes to consolidate in their minds that they are a good person and that they are truly the victim.

The Mid Ranger is the narcissist who you will find operating these forums (or fora if you prefer) . Of course not all of the online support forums are operated by our kind, far from it, but there is a noticeable presence by our kind. Indeed, I have had many of my readers express their concerns and suspicions about certain sites and their provenance, based on their experiences there and what they have witnessed.

This is difficult for people to recognise. They will have some familiarity naturally with the idea of narcissism, since why else are they at a narcissist abuse support forum?! However, it is highly likely that their skills have not yet become attuned to recognising our kind and certainly not this particular wolf in sheep’s clothing.

What then are the indicators which show that a narcissist is operating the site (or is involved as a moderator or administrator)? Based on what I have witnessed at certain sites, you should be aware of the following

  1. Invalidation. The subject of narcissism is both emotive and complex and therefore people have various experiences, opinions and theories. Some may simply be incorrect. Some may be based on a misunderstanding. Some however remain valid because that is the experience of the individual. The Support Forum Fraud (“SFF”) will reject out of hand the experience of the reader or commenter if it disagrees with, is at odds with or contradicts something stated by the SFF. Rather than recognising a difference of opinion, or politely explaining why the reader’s view is mistaken, the SFF will be dismissive.
  2. Aggressive. If the reader holds their ground with the SFF then they will be treated in an aggressive fashion. The reader is not insulting or provocative and merely states their view. They are treated to an aggressive response from the SFF. This is the manifestation of the MRN’s ignited fury. They will be told they know nothing, that they are being ridiculous, that the SFF knows far better and reminded that the SFF operates the forum.
  3. Labelling. The SFF will label the reader as an abuser or as a narcissist. I have seen this happen on many occasions and is a rapid dose of projection designed to put down, invalidate and insult the reader.
  4. The Labelling also has a further effect. It acts as a call to arms to other readers to launch into an attack against the hapless reader. The SFF expects their readership to gang up on this ‘narcissist’ and tell them what they are and drum them from the forum. Who are those who respond to this clarion call of the SFF? They belong to two groups  ; other narcissists and mis-guided victims. The former group of course do not know what they are. The Lessers will see it as an excellent opportunity for some verbal abuse provocation. The Mid Rangers will see it as a chance to curry favour with the host and demonstrate their own credentials as a ‘good’ person. The Mis-Guided Victims (often newbies) are still very hurt by their experience and their inexperience and current world view causes them to lash out at someone who they have mistakenly seen as a narcissist. It is an easy mistake for them to make, after all, they are still learning and the supposed guru of the host has declared this person to be a narcissist, so it must be true. There will be those, those who are more experienced and empathic who will defend the reader, recognising they are not a narcissist and that the person is entitled to express their opinion. They will be set on also and therefore this often causes others to avoid the fray to begin with.
  5. The host will engage in repeated recollections of their own horrendous treatment at the hands of the narcissist. It will be like a daily sermon as they rail against this person with a zealous enthusiasm which lasts for far too long for that of a genuine victim.
  6. The host having identified a supposed narcissist on the site will not let the matter go. If the reader remains (or is allowed to remain) on the site, they will be repeatedly branded and subjected to passive aggressive remarks. Even once gone or banished, they will be made mention of by the SFF.
  7. The SFF will also make repeated reference to their “online attackers” or their “trolls” in order to gain sympathy from readers. These supposed attackers remain vague and amorphous in identity because they often do not exist, but they are a perception of the SFF.
  8. The SFF will dole out the Pity Plays in order to gain the sympathy and support of their readers. Whilst they will repeatedly make mention of how badly they have been treated by the ‘narcissist’ they were ensnared by, they will also make such comments as “I don’t know why I bother doing this at times” and “I am sick of not being appreciated” and “some of you have no idea how much effort this takes”.
  9. Waterworks. If the SFF uses videos on the site or has a YouTube presence then the crocodile, self-pitying tears will flow. Those whose tears are genuine either will not post material containing them (they do not want people to see or regard it as unprofessional) or if they do it is clear it is genuine. The SFF’s waterworks will be forced as they summon up the tears. They will switch them on and off like the flicking of the switch. Once you know what to look for, you will see them.
  10. There is a lack of originality in the material. The SFF can only pose as the supposed empathic supporter of the abused not through actual experience or emotional empathy but through mimicry. Accordingly, the material that is placed on the site will be drawn from elsewhere. Often, the lazier SFF (coupled with their sense of entitlement and lack of accountability) will steal the work of others and either not credit it to the original author or pass it off as their own.
  11. There will be passive aggressive comments made towards the commenters and readers. Again, this is not always obvious to newcomers, but those with experience will soon spot this indicator and allied with points above the picture becomes clear.
  12. Sudden blocking. A reader will find themselves blocked from the site without any explanation or understanding as to what they have done. This passive aggressive response will arise because the SFF has perceived some behaviour of the reader which is unacceptable and thus wounded, has lashed out with this cold fury by providing a Silent Treatment.

Over time, the aggregate of these behaviours will demonstrate the true nature of the person operating the site and you will then realise just who is really behind the supposed caring, empathic persona.

You may have found yourself on the receiving end of such behaviour previously. Of course, you will not experience this behaviour in the future. Why? Well, you have no reason to go anywhere else than here now, have you!?

63 thoughts on “The Support Forum Fraud

  1. Asp Emp says:

    This thread was really enjoyable for me to read 🙂

  2. hash says:

    Personally, I have always had a certain suspicion towards the administrators of certain forums and blogs, who declare themselves victims of narcissists and show great anger and much emphasis in speaking about their experience by painting narcissists as demonic monsters to whom categorically must be denied the right to speak. My doubts were further fueled when I saw that I was banned from one of these blogs without apparent reason (there had been no form of aggression on my part, I was talking about my story with pathological narcissists and the path I am on doing to get out of it). I have the impression that the administrator of this site and some of her participants are more interested in forming a clique posing as victims and putting themselves on “a stage” as the only holders of the truth, rather than considering the phenomenon of narcissism objectively in his together. I don’t know if I can do “names” here, but if Tudor allows me I would like to bring back the link to the site in question. I await details. Thanks a greeting to all.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Fair observations and a more frequent occurrence than people realise.

  3. Kelly B says:

    Can’t see the greater checking out a support forum. It would be beneath them.

  4. Gwyneth says:

    Holy crap. That happened to me on one forum a couple of years ago. There was one admin who was nice to certain people and nasty to others. She didn’t just make sure posters were appropriate, she chimes in often with her vast expertise. I thought maybe she was the “tough love” admin since the others were very kind and empathetic. Any way, I saw this admin attacking a person who had posted. A person who was clearly just learning about the subject and having trouble figuring out what to do. Anyway, I told the admin to cool it… that some of us may need a reality check or firm advice sometimes, but this person clearly just needed to be heard. I didn’t swear and I didn’t violate any of the forum rules. Almost immediately I was blocked from the forum. Completely. After having been a contributing member for many months. Later I got a form email saying I had been blocked, but no reason. I replied but I never heard back. It was very difficult for me at the time because part of my discard was the Narc telling me I was mean and psycho and crazy and publicly smearing me with this image. Being blocked cut off my connection to people who were helping… or at least listening with understanding. But it also made me feel even more like I was too crazy or mean for that community. I have thought about it since then – whenever I see the author whose name is on the site interviewed or quoted. Never until now did I consider that the admin was a narc and didn’t like someone calling her out. Actually, I never thought about this but the admin could be a “he.” Not that it matters, but it never occurred to me that I wasn’t talking to who I thought. Thanks so much for this.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You’re welcome. I’m clear about what I am. This is a place of the best information and debate. Those who criticise my readers and me do so without any depth of use of this place and never have any evidence to do so because it does not exist. Those who do so (including those who seek to steal my work) are unaware narcissists.

  5. momtario says:

    In my experience, they will also go back to edit their own words throughout the “confrontation” with the reader, which can make said reader sound (and feel) insane. Gaslighting at its finest….

    But thankfully, the reality of what was said can be found in screenshots and quoted areas of text.

    …Good times

    But I did meet one very good person there, who was not the type to shy away from also being set upon (and that is absolutely what happened). He’s my best friend now, and definitely not a narcissist.

  6. KellyD says:

    Who needs any of them anyway, when there’s you, HG.?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Exactly right.

  7. AR says:

    Mr HG Tudor you forgot the verb “understand” in the sentence “I don’t why I bother doing this at times”.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It actually is ‘know’ but thank you for flagging this.

  8. cb says:

    Oh yes, and there is also the narcissist commentator on these forums.

    They will often covertly pull energy from other members, trying to confuse and make them reveal things about themselves, hold them accountable for things they didn t even say. Etc.

    Typical energy drain bait goes something like this:
    “cb, a long ago you wrote “x” in some discussion. Mmm… what did you mean by that?”

    “Oh www, did I really say something like this? Sounds a bit outrageous. Geez, are you sure it was me?”

    “Yes I am sure, cb”

    [Me frenetically googling, trying to find that context, and defend myself, explain]
    “Do you remember what thread that was? Can’t seem to find any of the words you’re referring to?”

    “I am sure you said this, cb” [again, no specification]

    They get fuel from making ppl work to defend themselves.

    Another energy drain trick they do is to send a private message like
    “I think I’m blocked from the Support Forum, cb? Do you have any idea why they would do this to me?”
    “What? You blocked? Let me check”

    I check and she is on the members list.

    That same person will phonecall through messenger and talk for long about nothing.

    Stuff like this made me quit support forums.
    Narcs love’m
    Though I have several cool empath friends from there so I enjoy the total outcome. ♡

    Ps. Probably the same type who will message on dating apps: “Hi, babe, your hair looks a bit weird”
    Negging.
    Making strangers defend themselves.
    Cheap.
    Those guys could go back to toddler kindergarten.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Excellent example.

  9. Claire says:

    HG Tudor, can a person who claims being an empath, to hate the narcissist who hurt him in the past? I am wondering because some comments that I read at this site are very harsh. It took me 2 good years to recover emotionally from my ex narcs abuse but I never hated him. I was bitter, I was angry, but I can’t hate . Nor I hate the narcs boyfriend( post divorce, I never cheated during the marriage) that I dated recently. I believe a true empath can’t hate really or maybe I am wrong? I don’t know, thinking of these 2 narcs i wish them good things; I still have the wrong belief that one day they will change . I remember meeting a narcs boss of mine at a company event long time ago. with a serpent smile on his lips he tried to intimidate me in front of other coworkers ( his body posture, look, words ) – “ Well Claire, I was not nice to you, but you survived, hahaha”. My answer was straightforward” Yes Mr X but it is in the past, it is forgotten” . His look was priceless- mix of disappointment and anger that the former victim dare to forget and forgive. I simply told him the truth btw .

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes, hatred can readily be felt towards the narcissist for what the narcissist has done to a victim.

  10. empath007 says:

    HG have you ever experinced narcs coming on your sight to hunt out empaths? If so, how do you handle them?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello E007,

      If you mean a narcissist coming here to find ‘their’ empathic victim, this has happened only once. I held the comments in moderation ( one of the reasons why moderation exists) screenshot those comments and informed the relevant person by email of the narcissist’s presence. The comments were then removed. He was a MMR. His comments were a long, whine against me and how I was filling the victim’s head with nonsense. It amused me.

      If you mean narcissists coming here generally, they of course do not know what they are and therefore would not think ‘I know, I will go to a blog filled with empaths and find one’, they come here thinking they are the victim and once soon sees their behaviour. You see how I handle them, I let them dig their own grave and watch their pathetic attempts at attention-seeking, insult flinging and Pity Plays.

      1. Lorelei says:

        I think it’s also important to note that even if someone isn’t a narcissist they may not “like” other people on here. True character and grace are illustrated by which of the two parties do not email you about it, talk to others about the person etc. “Empath” is not the exact equivalent of manners and class. Having class and being an adult is a separate issue to an extent.

        1. empath007 says:

          Hear ! Hear! Lorelei

      2. empath007 says:

        Thanks HG. I meant the first scenario. A narc wanting to ensnare one of your empathic readers for themselves. It’s good to know you spotted it and handled it. Thank you for paying attention to those things.

        As for the second scenario. Yes I’ve seen it. I can’t say I enjoy watching that whole process take place either though. As I feel it goes against the very concepts we are supposed to be learning about. But that’s just my opinion.

      3. alexissmith2016 says:

        What I find really interesting, is that I read somewhere once, a very long time ago. I think it was probably one of Dr Hare’s comments (I could be wrong). that psychopaths, as he terms them, can spot other psychopaths with ease in a way which no-one else truly can.

        What I’ve learned is that it is only the greater’s who can actually do this.

        Clearly most Ns are clueless as to what even they are let alone others. But I’ve really notice that the midrangers who believe they are greaters really struggle with recognising other Ns.

        Bizarrely I seem to know a fair few of these, initially they’re very drawn to me for some reason? then they start to question themselves whether they have assessed me incorrectly and they appear to subject me to questioning or little tests. I think because I’m positive and fun and complimentary of others, they are suspicious of this being superficial charm. Then they’ll see my empathic side again and revert to trying to seduce me. then be suspicious again and so it goes on.

        One of them even talks to me openly about spotting the signs of an N, looking at their eyes, superficial charm etc (this one has never openly admitted it to me, but I know he knows he is one, but beleives he’s a greater – he’s not, he’s a complete prick with very little charm).

        But he gets it so damn wrong, misjudges people all the time. He can’t spot them at all hahahah

        I know their cycle with me perhaps sounds a little bit like them attempting to seduce me, failing and trying again. but it’s different to that, very different. They are definitely suspicious of me.

        What do you think of Dr Hare’s comment HG? Is he unaware of the sheer volume of narcs? or only dealing with the most dangerous as in the greaters? Much of his study is on prisoners, because as he states, this is where you find most psychopaths, there and the board room. But the prisoners, I assume are mostly made up of Lessers? I’m guessing aren’t able to spot others? so why would he make such a statement? I hope he reads your work and is learning!

        Is he one?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          He is talking about psychopaths, not narcissists.

          1. alexissmith2016 says:

            Ah okay. yes, of course. And your thoughts on him…

          2. HG Tudor says:

            I don’t have any.

        2. Kiki says:

          Prisoner I think that’s were a lot of the truly dangerous ones are not just lessers
          Reading a book by the BTK killers daughter right now
          Wow this man was a doting loving father and a monster rolled into one
          It really is the most fascinating case I’ve read about
          Kiki

          1. alexissmith2016 says:

            Thanks for the recommendation Kiki, I’ll check it out!

            Yes I used to read about Ps many years ago now and thought I could spot one based on what I’d. I really couldn’t! I was looking out for people who changed hobbies with frequency and all the other things on the ticklist. So when my N had a consistent hobby, changed his job with reasonable frequency etc at first I assumed, he can’t be one. I did not know of Ns.

  11. Bibi says:

    I am also bothered by those who are so statistic and metric driven that they can’t think outside the box.

    There is a channel run by a seemingly nice, boring guy who does give good info on some things–I appreciate some of his well thought out opinions in other words, but he is too ‘research study’ focused.

    He did criticize Richard Grannon, so I got to give him kudos for that. It was actually quite hilarious in how dead pan he was.

    But this guy was also the one who denied that the ‘stare’ exists. ‘I see no evidence of this…’

    He needs research papers, in other words. So in that aspect, meh. I’ve seen the stare! But he does not fall into the category of ‘support fraud’, as he claims to be more ‘science based’, yet this rarely is applicable in real life situations.

    Why is he triangulating me? ‘Well, according to the analysis of my metrics…’

    Yawn.

    1. cb says:

      Oh the confusing “science language” cadre of narcs. They use formal bureaucratic words but don’t back them up with any reference or link to research papers.

      “People older than 40 simply don’t meet the critera”
      (Claiming that narcissism disappears with age without reference)

      “I see no evidence of that”

      They say surprising things outoftheblue, with strict confidence, but disguise the lack of support with Formal language.

      1. Bibi says:

        Just like with narcissism, those who are rote, stolid thinkers and can’t think outside the box don’t realize that they’re stuck in a box. Their roteness and stolidity prevents them from seeing beyond it.

        It is very frustrating and I have argued with these sorts many times in the past, but I don’t waste my time anymore. Let them think what they want. I know they are stuck in flatland.

        And this translates to many arenas, not just narcissism.

        HG’s articles get to the point and if adhered to, can yield great results. He is the living embodiment of a kettlebell workout.

        If Charles is a human dildo, then HG is a human kettlebell?

        LOL, did I just say that? You’re not shaped like that, HG, but you have that sort of power.

        😀

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I think you mean I’m the human equivalent of strong nuclear force

  12. NewFoneWhoDis says:

    Quora has a few resident ‘psychopaths’ and sociopaths (many self diagnosed) who LOVE to get super involved under the auspices of ‘shattering media myths’. So any of these people could just be narcs? One in particular Athena Walker is on there and she seems to have reactions to anyone challenging her assertion that she is indeed a psychopath. A few of them actually.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Usually Mid Range Narcissists believing they are ‘more’. Had one here who believed she was the female equivalent of me.

      1. Lorelei says:

        It’s all mostly useless for protecting oneself. Short term feel better fix.. If people don’t get ensnared again they are often dodging bullets.

      2. Twilight says:

        HG

        “Usually Mid Range Narcissists believing they are ‘more’. Had one here who believed she was the female equivalent of me.”

        Was this Bloody Elementals or something on that line being her “name” ?

        I remember she would go on about how she understood you and your perspective due to it being the same.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Correct.

          1. Pam says:

            I assume you mean me. You and I are nothing alike.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            No, I mean her stood behind you.

          3. foolme1time says:

            HG are you really going to let her back on here? Oh well, guess I can always use the practice. It will take me forever to become a Narc Slayer like my Sister NA. 🥰

          4. HG Tudor says:

            No I’m not.

          5. foolme1time says:

            See I was all excited to get some practice in! Lol. Just teasing HG. 🙃

          6. Bibi says:

            In terms of memory maybe HG is the male equivalent of Marilu Henner. LOL

            I actually have an excellent memory myself. It was very useful in times of gaslighting when the narcs would try to weasel their ways out of things, wherein I could say, ‘No, that’s not right.’

            I remember every detail of something that emotionally impacts me. I can also remember a lot of minutiae but I try to dump that. I find that forgetting benefits creativity.

            I don’t recall dates like Marilu Henner can b/c I mostly don’t pay attention to dates. I remember moods more. I can read a lot of books and can’t nec. recall all the details but I can recall what I was thinking about when I read it and what mood I was in, etc.

            I wish I knew of this psycho person you all speak of. Had I seen it, I would remember. That I don’t recall means I didn’t see it.

          7. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dear Mr Tudor,
            With regards to Pam/Anon …. or whatever… haha
            Personally, it’s actually good experimental ” real life” educational examples
            The extremes they go to
            It’s actually makes us stronger
            I’m more amused than anything, even though they are waste of space
            Thank you for allowing them thru … I find it beneficial, as it makes us more resilient
            Luv Bubbles 😘

        2. NarcAngel says:

          Twilight
          Bloody Elemental is who came to my mind also. I think it was AhOh who called her out.

          1. Twilight says:

            NarcAngel

            Ha ha yes it was AhOh calling her out then she (AhOh) was called out by me.
            Then there is Tigerchelle78 whom I believe is haunting the blog again under a different name……BPD my a@@ more like NPD wanna be BPD.

          2. Bibi says:

            I must have missed all this. The very fact that someone claims to be ‘the female equivalent’ of someone else is questionable. Doesn’t sound like something a Greater would do.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed.

          4. foolme1time says:

            Bibi,
            It was all done for HGs attention, when she first came on under a different name she would speak of her daughter and etc. and then when she came back as bloody element it was so bad her trying for HG at times you wanted to 🤢🤮. Hahaha!

          5. foolme1time says:

            NA,

            Do you remember what name she used before she changed it? I have been trying to think of it all morning.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Blood ‘n Thunder

          7. foolme1time says:

            OMG thank you HG! I couldn’t remember that for the life of me! Lol

          8. MB says:

            HG, I’m pleased that you’re churning out all of these Tudorscope articles. I am very much looking forward to them.

            I have a question though. I realize you may not consider the possibility of an Ultra Greater Elite female narcissist on the planet. But of the people you can think of, who would you consider to be the closest “female version of you”?

          9. HG Tudor says:

            There is no comparison

          10. MB says:

            Ugh! That’s such an HG answer.

          11. HG Tudor says:

            Well that’s who I am, hadn’t you realised?

          12. MB says:

            Of course! Always HG to me. For. Ev. A.

          13. foolme1time says:

            Haha! New that would be your answer HG. Wish I had someone to bet with when it comes to you and your answers, I could make some money off of you! Hahaha 🙃

          14. foolme1time says:

            Damn! Knew not new. That really was a typo.

          15. NarcAngel says:

            FM1T
            I tried and couldn’t so I’m glad HG came through.

          16. MB says:

            NA, having an excellent memory is essential to HGs existence. It is quite an asset.

        3. foolme1time says:

          That was the second name she gave herself Twilight. Smh.

          1. Twilight says:

            FM1T

            True I just couldn’t recall the first one, BE stuck with me.

          2. foolme1time says:

            Twilight

            I can’t at this time remember it or anything lol, think I had a bit to much to drink last night. Haha 🤕

          3. Twilight says:

            FM1T

            Ha ha I am with you on that I believe I had a little to much fun last night myself, desperately in need of a nap

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