The Classroom Narcissist


I am Chloe. I am 18 years old and I had an affair with my teacher, Mr Stevens or Phil as I came to call him.

I am not some silly girl, although they have repeatedly tried to tell me that I am. Believe me, I have felt the weight of my opponents as they tried to convince me, no doubt orchestrated by Phil, that I dreamt the whole thing up. Still, it is to be expected isn’t it, that they, the teachers, will close ranks and look out for one another. That is what they do isn’t it? I have lost friends because of this, but I realise they are just jealous and they fancied Phil just like me, only I got to have him. I don’t blame them for fancying him, he is good looking and funny and he has that easy air about him that makes him so likeable, but what they don’t realise that it is all an act. Phil the Flirt, Phil the Mate but when it suits him he remains Phil the Teacher, set apart and to stay apart.

He started it of course. I won’t deny that I liked him from the beginning. Everybody does. He is a popular teacher and being good-looking as well is never going to cause him a problem in the popularity stakes, but you see, he knows all of this, he plays on all of this and boy does he use it. He uses it to reel you in and then, and here is the clever part, he uses it as his defence. “I cannot help it if they take advantage of my popularity,” he protests as he maintains his innocence. He is not innocent. And he took my innocence.

He started it. I recognised the way he looked at me. He always looked for me in class before anybody else, as if ensuring that I was there in my usual seat and then giving me ‘that smile’. Oh, he smiles at everyone I was told. He does not smile for them the way he does, or rather did, for me. I am not stupid. I may be young but I saw how he would stare at me, how I could feel his gaze on me, how I could tell from the corner of my eye that he was stood besides me and was looking down my blouse. Who wouldn’t? I am attractive, I have my fair share of boys chasing after me and Mr Stevens is a man, he is flesh and blood, so he is bound to look isn’t he? He wasn’t meant to touch though but he did. Oh he touched me, in so many ways and he knew what he was doing.

I had heard that others had become besotted with him before. Rumours of some girl a few years ago who had to be persuaded to move to another school because she fell in love with him and would not leave him alone. I tried to find her actually but got nowhere. Some say he got her pregnant and she had to have an abortion, her parents hushing it all up as they did not want the scandal. Some say it is all made up. They have said the same to me.

I know what I saw. The cheeky winks just for me, the slightly longer smile than usual aimed at me. The way he usually asked me first when I put my hand up to answer a question. He was besotted with me first. I tried to tell them this but they dismissed what I said. Told me I was reading too much into him just being friendly, that I was trying to see things which were not there because I was desperate for his approval.

He was always encouraging, praising me for my work. I always enjoyed history but it became even better when he was allocated as my teacher. I worked hard because I wanted good results and I wanted him to be pleased with my work. I got high marks from the beginning and I now realise this was his way of reeling me in, making me feel special, marking me out for special treatment. He advocated on my behalf that I should be a candidate for Oxbridge (prestige British universities) and that meant extra tuition ; with him of course. Now, I am good enough to get in to Oxford or Cambridge (I chose Oxford) but he clearly saw this as his opportunity to isolate me from the other students and cleverly, from witnesses. After all, plenty of people across the various subjects have these Oxbridge tutorials after college hours, but he used his to teach me about more than the Tudor dynasty and the English Civil War.

Once he had me in those special tuition one-on-ones, then it was inevitable where it would end up. I was not complaining. I wanted his attention, absolutely, although of course he should have known better. He was the one in a position of trust, a man in a position of authority and I was just the pupil. Yes, I wanted him, but I didn’t realise that he was the one who had engineered for me to feel that way. That is what these predators do. They make it seem like your doing, but he hypnotised me and made me fall under his spell.

He was always so assured, doing just enough to maintain an element of doubt should he have misjudged the situation, just enough to be able to protest it was an innocent gesture. The hand on the shoulder, the hug of congratulations, the slightly-too-long touching of fingers when passing a book or an essay to one another. Oh, he was good, he knew what he was doing, steadily reeling me in and making me the centre of the universe. He chose me from the very beginning and little by little he reeled me in. He used his influence to bring me to heel and have me on my knees (how he relished seeing me on my knees) and I lapped up his attention and more besides.

Soon the secret trysts began. Arrangements made in his office with that Stuart family tree covering the door window so nobody could see what went on in his office. So much for transparent government, he still subscribed to the idea of an absolute monarchy. He never used his ‘phone, clever old Phil. He made it seem romantic, the whispered instructions of where to meet and when, always outdoors, never in places where we would be seen. No traces left, no observers, no evidence. He was a master at this game and I was clearly naive, but I am not a silly little girl.

And then he dropped me. No explanation. He became cold. Civil yet cold. I tried to get my friends to see how he treated me differently but they told me that I was imagining it. My grades remained excellent but the Phil that held me and read to me from historical texts and delighted me with his knowledge was gone. The Oxbridge tutelage came to a conclusion as the entrance examinations loomed ; he had no reason to be alone with me and even though I sought an audience with him, this absolute monarch would not grant me admittance.

So I spoke out. Why shouldn’t I? He told me he loved me and I loved him too. Yet once he had my innocence (or rather once he had it two score) he considered me conquered and of no great interest to him anymore. Nobody treats me like this. I will bring him down. He is not going to get away with it. Oh, I know they think I have made this all up, some kind of revenge for not getting my way, but they have underestimated me. I am not going to be denied and I will make the all see, even my parents who for some inexplicable reason have sided with him. I shouldn’t be surprised though, the have always hated me for some reasons, they are frauds to think they can call themselves mother and father. No, I know this is how his kind behave. They turn everyone against you, cut you off and paint you as the trouble maker. That is not me. I am the victim.


I am Mr Stevens. I am 30 years old and a teacher of history. I still am, although I am currently suspended as a consequence of the ridiculous allegations of a fantasist. It is an outrage that someone’s made-up fantasy has the potential to ruin a man’s career.

I am no fool. I have taught for nearly a decade and I know the tricks pupils get up to. I have seen them all. I have always been a teacher who adopts the ‘carrot’ approach. You always get further with honey rather than vinegar. Oh, I know there are one or two sticks in the mud in the staff room who regard my popularity with sniffed disdain, but that is just jealousy on their part. My results speak for themselves. Plenty of students choose to study history and between Miss Kelshaw and I, we make a formidable team. Thankfully Miss Kelshaw has supported me in this unpleasant matter although I always knew she would do so. Sensible lady.

You do walk a tight rope at times when you are friendly, yet firm, with the students. I am not their friend but I do not have to be their enemy either. I love history and my natural enthusiasm for the topic is something I try to install in my charges too. If you love something, you always do better don’t you? It does not feel like a bind or a chore. By ensuring those who choose to study history with me really love it and want to live and breathe it, I weed out the ones where it is not for them nice and early and they move to a different subject in the first two weeks. Plus doing that ensures that I am only going to get those who are going to get the best grades, so it is a win-win all around. I want to make my mark on this college. I will be the principal one day, although at present it appears that moral principles are ones which are trying to attract my attention to a greater degree.

Chloe Fowler is a good student. She will do well. Polite if something of an attention-seeker. Always first to stick her hand in the air an one to air an opinion on absolutely anything and everything. Nothing really wrong with that I suppose, at least she has learned the mantra of make a point and then ensure you have something to back it up when she advanced her arguments. I taught her just as I taught everybody else ; to the best of my ability.

Unfortunately for me, she mis-read my concern for her education as meaning something else. What can I do about that? I am not going to sit behind a screen and isolate myself from my students am I? That is not how I operate. I am not a ‘no smiles before Christmas’ kind of guy. Not at all. History needs to be alive, accessible and most of all enjoyable. It is like anything in this life – if you enjoy it, make it yours and you will succeed. I want all my students to succeed.

Yes, I selected Chloe Fowler for Oxbridge tutelage. That was the right selection and I still say it is, despite her ridiculous allegations. She has her keen mind, too keen as it happens. I have read what she has accused me of, or rather the police office read it to me and it is all nonsense, a made-up fairy tale. I see she has been clever though, she has ensured that she has accused me when there was nobody else available to witness our interactions. It is always the case that those chosen for Oxbridge tuition see their tutors in their offices. That has always been the case and I am pleased that my fellow teachers and the principal have confirmed that to be the case. I knew they would back me on this. It is an occupational hazard of ours, infatuated students who start to think they are the apple of your eye. Usually it is nothing more than a harmless term-long crush and they grow out of it, but not this girl. She has something seriously wrong with her. Has to have to come out with the lies she has spouted. Suggesting we had sex beneath ‘the tree that Charles the Second hid in’. I know that to be a lie ; that tree was destroyed hundreds of years ago. Everything she has spouted is just the slops of the mind of a fantasist and she is dangerous. Nobody is going to believe her. I know the police have to go through the motions but it will be soon kicked in to touch. She has done this because I rejected her. I didn’t reject her outright, after all there was nothing to reject, we had no romantic relationship, there was no flirtation, nothing. It is clear, however, she thought otherwise and in that warped mind of hers, she has felt rejected in some way and this is the result. An expensive and unnecessary investigation, plus the interference to the other students, no wonder so many have turned against her.

I know she liked me. I am a likeable person but I maintained a proper teacher-student relationship and she has seen fit to dream up something else. What can you do? Put cameras everywhere I suppose but then who wants that, surely there has to be some element of trust between us? Am I annoyed? Of course I am. I haven’t done anything wrong and along comes this girl and she spouts all manner of idiocy and she is treated seriously. I mean, anybody can see this is a tissue of lies. This had better not affect my promotion prospects or I will be taking legal action too. Thankfully the local paper have not reported anything about it so far, that conversation I had with the deputy editor seems to have worked, so far so good on that front. He is a good friend and does not want to see the reputation of a hard-working and successful teacher sullied. What annoys me most is how easy it is for someone like her to make these things up and next thing it is suspension and investigation. They tell me that it is a neutral act but I know there will be those trotting out the old ‘no smoke without fire’ rubbish.

I realise that when you are decent-looking chap like me and because you are friendly and get to share a joke with the students, some might blur the boundaries but it is one thing for them to be blurred and another for them to be crossed. Am I to be punished just for being popular, because that is what she is trying to do?

I am not going to change my style though. I am a hands-on teacher and that always gets results and one besotted fantasists is not going to make Phil Stevens change how he teaches. No way.

It is ridiculous. As if I would be interested in some 16 year old (which is how she says she was when this started) when I have a gorgeous wife at home. That in itself should tell those looking into this that this is a witch hunt by a disturbed adolescent who should be studying for her exams and getting help with whatever problem she has, rather than trying to ruin the life of an honest and decent man. I am the victim in all of this.

Who is the class room narcissist?


Who do you think is the narcissist?

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57 thoughts on “The Classroom Narcissist

  1. lisk says:

    Never assume that a parent “knows” a child’s “character” best, if at all, especially when the child has been subject to parental/familial/whatever abuse/neglect/trauma in his or her short lifetime.

    I never take a parent’s word as the accurate description of their child, whether positive or negative. Parents are definitely not as all-knowing as many think they are. Plus, they’re apt to be quite biased, one way or another.

    And, frankly, the fact that Chloe’s friends and parents believe Phil over Chloe can very possibly indicate a very masterful narcissist at work.

    1. lisk says:

      Sorry, misposted the above note, which was written in reply to Mister Anderson, August 1, 2019 at 10:17.

    2. NarcAngel says:

      I agree. My parent figures knew less about me than my teachers at school.

  2. E. B. says:

    Both narratives can be one of a narcissist. Could you please let us know how to tell who is telling the truth and who is lying, please?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      In due course, I shall, EB.

      1. E. B. says:

        Looking forward to reading it. Thank you.

  3. Mister Anderson says:

    Hi all,
    First of all I called Phil John earlier, my mistake. Sry about my lack of precision.

    Just an observation, my two cents.

    There are two conflicting stories in this case study. No one knows which is true except Phil and Chloe.

    Still so many seem to decide to believe that Chloes side is the truth. Is that not emotional thinking? What HG warns is of every single day. I understand that several here have been victims in circumstances which from a distance resembles that of Chloes. Remember that there are just as many victims being played by female narcs, and they dont just appear out of nowhere in their thirties. They were sixteen once as well. Beautyful and intelligent girls are far from powerless at 16, and they do not have problems drawing in male appliances. They might be inexperienced, which Chloe probably was. In the end both stories agrees that he rejected her.

    It is easy to empathize with what seems to be the objectively weaker part, Chloe in this case. But there is no evidence of truth in her story. For all we know Phil might not have done a single thing wrong. We dont know if there even ever was an affair. There are no witnesses or proof. Not even Chloes friends support her, they have turned against her. Her parents, who know her character best, believes Phil over Chloe. That is significant.

    Phils and Chloes behaviours on the other hand gives some clues.

  4. mollyb5 says:

    HG ..please .

  5. Mister Anderson says:

    I think Chloe is a narc.

    Some observations:
    -The whole world is against her (victimhood)
    -Accepts no blame for what happened (blameshifts)
    -Thinks highly of herself (grandiose)
    -Johns winks, smiles etc. could easily be her “alibi”, his responses to her interest (possibly avoiding responsibilities. Not certain but possible)
    -She made Oxbridge candidate (a motive)
    -John was a prize (percieved competition with the other students).
    -She admits liking attention (fuel)
    – The stories agree on the fact that HE rejected her. This is criticism which a narcissist is wounded by and she then starts a smear campaign. John speaks highly of Chloe even after this. Chloe has painted John as Black and seeks revenge. Showing Fury.
    -Split thinking. John was white and then when his interest faded immediatly turned black.
    -John do not speak of Chloe in this manner.

    Related to her prime aims:
    -Fuel: The lions share of attention from the teacher is significant. Other students have had a crush on him which means he is high value. His hands-on approach and interest in his students signals empathic qualities.
    -Facade: He helps her becoming a top student, and a selected and elevated through mentoring.
    -Residual benefits: He can help her career and/or further education.

    Regarding John. He seems introspected and reflects on how it happened and his part in it. He does not admit guilt, word is against word and he might be innocent. He does not seem to get challenge fuel out of this which would propel him to go on the offense. Which he does not.

    With the input given I would argue Chloe is the narc. John is not a narcissist. If he was a narcissist he would be too experienced by now to not choose a victim of such low empathy. John would have gone for a co-dependent, empath or super empath. Chloe fits none of these categories.

    My conclusion: Chloe has made a large part of this story up in order to avenge John for refusing to be her IPSS. She is the only narcissist in this story.

    She is also an unaware narcissist and most probably a mid-ranger, with some skills already in manipulation and knowingly using it to achieve her goals.

    How did I do HG?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Well argued.

      1. cont. I am not a legal expert, but a quick look on Google to assuage my curiosity about possible statutory rape in this dynamic is as follows: [ `United Kingdom Age of Consent & Statutory Rape Laws
        Age of Consent in United Kingdom Individuals aged 15 or younger in United Kingdom are not legally able to consent to sexual activity, and such activity may result in prosecution for statutory rape or the equivalent local law.`]

    2. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

      Dearest HG: What about the part that she was 16 and he could possible go to jail for statutory rape? This is a major issue in this dynamic. I see no way he would admit the liaison under this circumstance, even if she is telling the truth. And, he could not claim that she raped him, although there have been rare instances of female rape of males. She does come off as very mature for her age, and aware of the male-female dynamic in an extraordinary way for one so young. She sounds experienced, and he may have thought she would handle the rejection better. A possible error on his part, since part of her is still quite immature.

  6. Mercy says:

    The first time I read it I thought Phil was the narc, no doubts. After thinking about it some more and reading again I’m going with both are narcs or at the least, Chloe has high narc traits. I think there are a few things that threw me off of Chloe right away.

    1. Female
    2. Student
    3. 16 years old
    4. Taken advantage of by a person of trust

    When setting aside all of that, it’s my opinion that a 16 year old empath WOULD NOT TELL let alone seek revenge. I feel that most 16 year olds would feel shame and think that it is their fault in some way. It’s sad but it’s true. There are so many victims that don’t speak out because of the shame. I still feel like Chloe is a victim. No child should be taken advantage of, narc or not, by any adult but especially a man in his position.

    I think Chloe is a young narc who clashed with a more experienced narc. I think Phil dropped her for fear of exposure. I don’t see Phil as a greater because he got caught. I could be wrong about him being a greater because he had precautions in place with his minions.

    1. WokeAF says:

      I thought about that too, her wanting revenge. But then I thought about how a lot of us feel that way after narc abuse. We want to expose them

      1. lisk says:

        I am more than double Chloe’s age and I was on track to expose Narcx.

        Then I found this blog and let HG’s writings beat it into my head that, unless my emotional thinking is done, I will only make things worse and the narc will win, win, and win again.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Well done.

      2. Mercy says:

        WokeAF, I was in that category. I spent a long time thinking and planning revenge on the ex N. It is Chloe’s age that makes me think wanting revenge on a 30 year old popular teacher with no support on her side is unusual.

  7. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

    Dearest HG: I think my computer glitched on my first response.. I voted both. Colliding Narcissist. An a gorgeous wife does not kill a man` desire for young women. I have no idea why he deflected that way.

  8. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

    Dearest HG: I was going to say that Chloe was, but Phil ruined it for me when he said the following: [ `It is ridiculous. As if I would be interested in some 16 year old (which is how she says she was when this started) when I have a gorgeous wife at home.` ] That statement is ridiculous and a deflection. Most men adore young women. Laws were put into effect by society to protect young women from men until around the age of 18 or so depending on the coutry and locality and state, etc. Also, married men do not seek other women ONLY because their own wife is lacking. Sometimes the man is just attracted to another woman, or has a large libido or even a libido that no one woman can satisfy, and he knows that already before he married, or a needy ego, or all of the above-mentione reasons and even more, and it is as simple as that and has nothing to do with his wife and/or her lack of beauty. Men divorce beauty contestant winners, and I know that. And when he sees that other woman, or when he sees other women, his wife is the last thing on his mind, anyway: He goes into the moment. He goes into another world. So, he lost me, whith that statement: that because his wife is gorgeous, he would not have a relationship with a young woman. So, I will say both are Narcississts.: When Narcissists Collide

    1. Abe Moline says:

      Logic fallacies are not an exclusive characteristic of narcissists.
      The most obvious example that comes to mind is ET.

      What if he is married to a (somatic) narcissist?

  9. WokeAF says:

    Phil , obv but School pls?

    An elite or cerebral?

    1. WokeAF says:

      I’m seeing a massive charm offensive on Phil‘s behalf would this be indicative of a greater ?

      He certainly does not seem to be the same way my cerebral was as in there was very little interest in sex it sounds like this guy loves it

      So I’m going to guess that he’s a greater elite but HG and anyone else I would like thoughts ?

  10. Caron says:

    For narc teachers, schools must be easy pickings. The inexperienced prey there presents no challenge or threat, and kids are easy to manipulate.

  11. mollyb5 says:

    The teacher is a fucking narc ! This really is hard for some women to understand . This is how the narc also gains supporters ..they lie. They gain others support with cutting down the empath or young teenage girl ! This never happened to me but I saw it . I suppose if I thought way back might bring back the memory of the girl who was the teachers pet ..or the one that would seems to brag about how she knew the answers in class so well . I suppose women remember this girl as a narc ? Maybe because we were so young and didn’t know what a narc was then .
    We just see a man doing his job and we don’t see the flirting on his part …because he is sneaky and sly. We see our same age friend acting different tho ..etc. if you really are an empath one could put yourself into the situation and feel the emotions in the room . I could . It wasn’t me …I was way to shy and never would have been targeted at that age .

  12. WiserNow says:

    Great post! At first, it was difficult to choose, but I’d say Phil is the culprit. My first impression was that the teacher was the narc. Something about his insistent denials and deflecting and arrogant way of saying that he “always knew” Miss Kelshaw would support him. Generally, I find narcissists need to have offsiders or partners or side-acts for support (or perhaps fuel). They usually don’t stand up totally alone for long periods with nothing or no-one else but the courage of their own convictions.

    Also, in the case of an ongoing affair between a schoolgirl and a 30-year-old teacher, the teacher is the one with the maturity and authority to steer the situation in the way it ended up.

    Some of the things Chloe mentioned about being hypnotised and being given attention in small subtle ways that only the two of them knew about were things that I don’t think would be ‘confessed’ by the actual narcissist… narcissists are more likely to deny and deflect rather than tell the truth. A manipulator isn’t going to point the finger at someone else and then describe all their own secrets of manipulation. They’re going to keep those secrets for their own use in future, or distract attention by saying something else.

    1. WokeAF says:

      You write;

      “Also, in the case of an ongoing affair between a schoolgirl and a 30-year-old teacher, the teacher is the one with the maturity and authority to steer the situation in the way it ended up”

      It’s amazing how this was at the forefront of my brain when I was reading this article this time. The last time I read it was probably a year or two ago( I have no idea I read so many ) either way my logic defences were not in place – so I actually had to really evaluate. This time, I see that the teenager has some narcissistic tendencies but that’s because she’s a teenage girl .
      I would think a normal teacher, who is being accused of this, would be seeing things more along the lines of “What did I do to make her feel this? What can I do to help remedy the situation?“
      Instead of all the blame shifting and finger-pointing and excuses , gaslighting and lying .

      Also a normal (innocent) teacher would not have a history of this happening .

      It’s like seeing a new world once you put the logic lenses on , hey?

      1. WiserNow says:


        Yes, it *is* like seeing a new world. I feel the same way. The funny thing is that the world is still completely the same as it was before, and the difference is our new way of seeing it instead (i.e. with logic lenses on haha 😎).

        These days, I sometimes contemplate other people (i.e. other adults) in day to day life, and I’m more conscious of giving them the benefit of the doubt or feeling that they have more cause (for some unknown reason!) than I do to be given respect or compassion or acceptance etc. Nowadays, I remind myself that I too have every right to those things as well, and that there’s no ‘unwritten rule’ anywhere that states that I need to accept anything less for myself.

        I find that when I give myself this kind of respect and ‘agency’, it’s easier to see how other people have either behaved within boundaries or have overstepped boundaries.

        So, as you say, like the teacher in this post, as a teacher, he has a ‘role’, and that is to behave responsibly with the students he is teaching.

  13. lisk says:

    Phil Stevens, for sure. I’ve known two of them very well in my lifetime.

    I slept with “Phil Stevens,” my college history prof, once I completed both of his classes.

    I lived with “Phil Stevens,” once-colleague in academia.

  14. empath007 says:

    I enjoy case studies. Thanks for this HG.

    First let me say, I have dealt with approx 10 nArcs in my lifetime and the majority were in fact women. These narcissitic women ranging from lesser to greater were perhaps the most vindictive I’ve dealt with. So I don’t view sex as a factor when it comes to narcissism.

    In this case however, I say the teacher is most definitely the narcissist. Although he vehemtly denies it (which a narc would) he is abusing his position of power. When someone abuses thier power that is a blatant disregard of empathy or guilt. He is using his position to influence those around him as well to make his case that the young girl is “making it up”.

    Most teenagers engage in a bit of magical thinking and make poor decisions based on lack of life experince. It would be easy for a young girl to get twisted up in something like this… I have personally witnessed this exact scenario In my high school. It’s sickening to watch.

    Also, he shows no compassion or empathy for this girl. Classroom crushes are common and it is the teachers responsibilty to make sure they are handled correctly.

    Any claims made about sexual harassment in school, at work or at home need to be taken more seriously in general. If they are not true then that can be dealt with… but we should never assume young women/men are lying right away. Ask questions, do research, approach it calmly but sternly.

    My hope for this world is that we see all underage stop being targets for these perverts.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

  15. Bibi says:

    I am perplexed as to why there are so many votes choosing Chloe as the narcissist. While it is clear she enjoys attention, who doesn’t? That is one of the main ways a narc can ensnare. Pay some attention to an otherwise seemly shy girl, make her feel special, etc. This is a situation where even if she were the aggressor in her pursuit, Phil is the authority figure and needs to be the adult and put a stop to it.

    It’s like Clinton and Lewinsky. I have no doubt that Clinton was the aggressor. She might have blushed and blinked her eyelashes at him, but that affair would not have occurred without him initiating it. Yes, she could have said no but she was likely acting out a fantasy and she wanted to believe that he desired her.

    1. kaydiva3 says:

      I agree. The narc is 100% the teacher. He is the adult and responsible for the whole situation, regardless of who initiated it. Chloe says a few things that sound narcissistic, such as believing others were jealous of her. But she was groomed and manipulated by an abuser. She is also a teenager, and most teenagers are a bit narcissistic. It’s a natural part of their developmental stage and also because they don’t have the life experience to easily see other perspectives. Most of them grow out of this as empathy and perspective develops with maturity.

      This story resonated with me because I was targeted by a 33 year old narcissist when I was 18. Only now that I am close to the age he was at the time do I realize how predatory this was.

      1. Lorelei says:

        I was targeted by a 30-something attorney when I was 17. He lost his license to practice. (For other things) Deplorable behavior. Once reaching an adult age be still persisted by trying to impress me with bottles of Dom Perignon one night—so unoriginal. Disgusting. I’m so nauseated I can’t even see straight!

  16. mollyb5 says:

    So many people think an empath has changed for the worse like bitter , selfish , sarcastic , crazy ….and many believe the narc has become so sensitive and so hurt . While, the empath is pissed and mad at what is going on ! People when they are taking poles they need to listen or read the words used ….the phrases . HG I’m not sure which book you have explains this situation Iam writing about ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      From The Mouth of the Narcissist.

  17. mollyb5 says:

    And ….(my phone is very hard to use at times . So small ).

    And …it can go both ways …I know I repeat sarcastic statements that I hear over and over and that are directed at me from the narc . So when he is pouting and doing a silent treatment . I want to talk and express myself and I will go and garden , exercise , clean the house , drive – away and if another normal is to talk with me when I have his angry silent treatment in my energy ….I can come across as cold, in my own world, I have to get his energy off me ! I have to dance and move , being in nature brings my true self back .

  18. mollyb5 says:

    One thing that happens when a girl / woman is with a narcissist a long time. He ( narc ) takes on certain caring and kind characteristics of the empath he is living with

    . He ( the narc) uses character traits and phrases he sees her say and emotions she shows that get reactions from others that he likes . I don’t think others will ever see this. When HG talks about character traits gained from the empath it’s true . He ( the narc) will say kind words and use the similar words their primary uses to show empathy and understanding to others . They repeat phrases back , it can be so subtle because it can happen within a conversation while it’s happening .
    When I talk about the people I take care of my narc is intent on watching me explain how deeply I discuss my clients situations . He will even help me move them to new facilities …with items in his truck if needed . This of course is because I tell him my boss will pay him , but he likes to tell stories to his customers of how he has helped an elderly dementia patient. It makes him look kind and caring . Nobody but the primary sees this . So it’s very hard for people who have never been a primary to really know what a narc is and what his true personality is.

    1. liz_k says:

      What’s worse is when he took my characteristics and uses them to manipulate others. I’m sure he used others’ characteristics on me, too, Yuck!

      I’m so glad I’m no longer giving him my traits, characteristics, ideas, vacation fantasies, etc.

      Goodbye to all that.

  19. mollyb5 says:

    I went to an all girls school. I saw this happening my history class. I saw it and felt it . I hated what he taught in history the one year I had his class. Fucking asshole yuck.

  20. KM says:

    HG, how do you go about writing from an empath’s perspective? I would think this would be challenging for you given that you don’t think this way.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I mirror as part of my manipulations. I have interacted with empaths all through my life, so I know what you say, what you do and how you think (because I listen to what empaths articulate). Accordingly, a combination of listening and my very high level of intelligence means I work out what empaths would say, what their perspective will be. I understand it intellectually but I do not feel it.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Ability to know the other must have something to do with consistent behaviour, because empaths can be intelligent, listen, and be around narcissists their whole life and not learn a fucking thing, much less write about it.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          True but of course they will not recognise what they are dealing with owing to the obscuring effects of emotional thinking. Intelligence is no defence.

          1. Dearest HG: So true. I realized something odd, but I just could not put a label on it. I remember one time I was taking the subway back from a seminar with the Narcissist from Queens to Manhattan, a long ride. And he was absorbed with his phone. An announcement was made, an unclear, low-volume service announcement. I could tell that he did not notice. So, I said to him we will have to change trains soon, because of a service disruption. He just stared at me for a moment with no comment and returned to looking at his phone. People at work told me that he was relaxed when I was around. I would not know. At the point of the train route service disruption change, he was still absorbed with his phone, and I said, we have to get off the train here, this time. He looked at me and did not want to concede that I was informing him about something, I guess. I did not want to be in charge, but I was very alert in my being, just by sitting next to him. We had about 10 seconds to exit that subway or be re-routed far out of the way. I know he did not want me to be right, because I could feel it, and then he said, Nah…we will be okay. Really? REALLY? Magical thinking. Control. Omnipotence. I did not say a word, because the odd side of him, that is what I called it, was speaking. I waited….I was not concerned because I had already decided to myself, if he did not exit this train, I was not exiting and leaving without him, to go my own way home, and thus leaving him to be rerouted on some weird unexplained mystery route on his own, and plus I would be able to sit next to him for at least another hour if we were stuck being rerouted out of the way. I was in a win-win. Exit now or not. I had already planned for either scenario, because I noticed the odd side of him was in play. I am a survivor as well. He looked at me, and I looked at him back, in silence. I guess he wanted me to repeat what I said quickly to convince him or something, but I did not. I never did repeat to him or ask him about his behaviour or statements, after I asked him once a year or so ago, about something, and he mumbled some answer. That mumbling was enough for me. I found it odd. I just knew something was odd about him at times, and I was not going to go in circles with him, ever, as I saw other people do so in the workplace. He always looked puzzled at me, when he thought I would go in circles about something with him, and I did not. Anyway, I did not repeat myself, because I had told him about the rerouting of the train, and so I knew he knew exactly what I said. At the last moment, he said abruptly, Okay! Let’s Go! And we jumped swiftly off the train almost being hit by the closing doors. So odd.

      2. Lorelei says:

        You seem to have a very authentic (concrete is a better term) “you” which is consistent. What benefit is mirroring now with what appears a robust personality?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          How would you know what is concrete about me? I am a shapeshifter. You know two aspects of me Lorelei – the professional individual who you consult with and the moderator of this blog.

          1. Lorelei says:

            Yes correct but the demeanor is solid in this context. This may be a duplicate reply..

          2. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            HG: Mirroring definitely works to attach others: Is it safe for me to understand that the mirroring will always be a fail-safe system in place so that you you will have the best chance of success to meet the primary aims, no matter how aware you are of the state of your personality within the NPD dynamic?

          3. HG Tudor says:

            In essence.

          4. LC says:

            Is the moderator and the person who offers consults the same individual?

          5. HG Tudor says:

            He is.

        2. Lorelei: What I understand is, most of us have the constructs of hope and faith and belief to smooth over our decisions in life and our goals in life, and we also feel that we have, at times, a grace period, and time, to accomplish our goals, or to even wait for some of our desires to fall into place, by chance. And many of us depend on having some advantages, fair or unfair. The part of a young person’s mind that potentially utilizes and develops a relationship with hope and faith and belief, etc, has been removed from society, by the mind of the young person long ago and hidden, to a place that it can not be attacked any longer, because that part of the young person’s mind was being attacked and violated when they were very young and could not fight and overpower whatever was happening in their society, that was an extreme and cruel violation of that part of their young mind, and thus many of these young people slowly became Narcissists. And, many with latent malice and sadism, often modeled after persons in that damaging early society of their upbringing as a way to fight back. The Narcissist is, over time from early youth to young teen or so, finally created, as they mimic the violators in their early society as a way to fight back, and then the Narcissist over time depends on a new-ish god, so to speak, that their mind has formed, that has now also stepped in to run the show for their resulting different sort of personality, Narcissism PD, as it is currently named. And the Narcissism is at least doubly vigilant and constant to protect the entire person, including the removed and hidden part of the person, more than the vigilance and awareness and instincts that most people work with. The Narcissism is an almost unbelievable defense mechanism that guides the Narcissist, and it is exceedingly practically an unbelievable mechanism to anyone that has not knowingly encountered it. Just like must of us asked, after we encountered the Narcissism and the Narcissist, WHAT IN THE WORLD IS THIS? I know I sure did. the Narcissism believes it does not have the luxury of hope and belief and faith and grace and chance, etc. to defend the Narcissist and the removed self, and still survive in this world, after the violation that caused the split and hiding of the potentially higher vibration self, that was the potential home of the higher frequency emotions such as love and faith and hope and empathy and duty and caring, etc. So the Narcissism, on behalf of the Narcissist will use every advantage in their cache as much as possible to make sure life is successful and the Narcissist is Winning, even without such emotions at the ready: Mirroring? Sure. Natural Personality? Sure. Constructs? Sure. Character traits? Sure. Mimicry? Sure. Facade? Sure. Cognitive Empathy? Charm? Sure. Grandiosity? Sure. Entitlement? Sure? Magical Thinking? Sure. Entitlement? Sure. etc. etc. All at once? Sure: If the Narcissism so deems. And then some. The Narcissism does not allow much, if any at all, room for error as much as possible, in striving for survival on behalf of the Narcissist, in the manner of most other people, that did not have to remove a part of themselves so that the societal attack and abuse of that part could not lead to the entire destruction of of the young person’s mind. It is an amazing and odd and powerful defense mechanism. MULTIPLE fails safes are always in place. There is practically no such thing as overkill. And even when things are going well with the Narcissist, so to speak, and the Narcissist is relatively topped off: to stay in practice, the Narcissism will still ensure the games are always being played, by the Narcissist, just as lions still wrestle with each other on a cool summer day. With the undercurrent that the fight is always there. To not be soft. To Win. To be battle ready at all times, and for all circumstances, on any given day, Some Narcissist need little sleep. That is godlike, as well. Very Vigilant. It is all so almost incredible. But, I believe it. And, I have seen it.

          1. Lorelei says:

            Thanks Princess. This entire thing leaves me dumbfounded at times—I keep waiting for it to quit making sense (thinking how can this be true) and it keeps making more sense! Unbelievable.

      3. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

        Dearest HG: Amen. Because of your insight, I have learned so much about myself, as well as about others and I appreciate this.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome.

        2. Lorelei says:

          I second this Princess!

          1. Lorelei: I know you do. I have watched you taking HG`s advice in your dynamic, since I first found Narcsite. I am so impressed as you continue to push through all the madness of your dynamic and still stand on your own dignity. And, amazingly, still take care of yourself and your family. Many strong women would have folded by now. You are a lioness. You are doing your part, Lorelei. Brava. You are a fiesty, fierce and fabulous female. Only someone at the level of HG Tudor could have the intellect and masculinity and strength and persuasion and influence to direct you and advise you in all this. I can perceive of no other male within my sphere that could have begun to help me with the oddities of my dynamic, as well.

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