Toxic Logic


Confusion is at the heart of the narcissistic dynamic. Confusion causes several things to happen. You provide fuel far more readily, you submit to our control, you are easier to manipulate, your blame yourself, you cling on tighter and you do not move forward. Confusion reigns during devaluation. Confusion abounds post escape and especially post discard. Confusion keeps appearing during the hoovers which inevitably appear. The creation of confusion is a must for us if we are to keep our grip on you and achieve our aims. How many times have you said any of the following?

Why is he doing this?

I don’t understand why one moment she is fine and the next she is a howling banshee?

Why does he get so angry over nothing?

Why won’t he leave me alone?

I cannot work out what is wrong.

What’s the matter? What have I done wrong?

Why won’t you tell me what is the matter?

What was that for?

What did you say that for?

Why did you just do that?

These are all the common responses of victims who do not understand what is happening to them. This is because each and every single one of them is looking at the situation through their own world view and is accordingly applying their own logic to the situation. They are also doing so in a skewed fashion because that logic is heavily tainted by emotion which impairs clarity of thought. Not that our kind would complain about that.

One of the central planks to understanding the narcissistic dynamic is to understand our Toxic Logic. This is so-called because the effect of the application of our logic is that it has a toxic effect on you. Once you understand this toxic logic, you will make considerable advances into understanding why we behave as we do, why we say the things we do, why we react in the fashion that we do and why it impacts on you in such a fashion. You will not like this toxic logic. You will find it abhorrent but it is not necessary for you to like it. What you must do is apply it.

When you look at a situation adopting your worldview it is akin to staring into the dark of the night and looking into a forest. You may be able to see the trees because of the moonlight; you see lots of shadows but you cannot spot the man that is lurking there training a gun on you. Apply night vision goggles to that situation and all of a sudden you can see much more as they catch the infra-red section of the light spectrum and you can see the assassin clearly. Applying the toxic logic is the equivalent of switching to night vision. You will notice things that have been there all along. You will understand why we have responded in a certain way which has previously been a complete mystery to you.

Let us take the dinner table example. You have made dinner. you serve the four guests first, place a plate for yourself on the table and then serve your narcissist last. He knocks the plate to the floors spilling the food and breaking the plate. Your guests gasp. He stares at you, glowers and you watch shocked and puzzled as he storms off from the dining room. Why on earth did he just do that? Fifteen minutes later he returns, sits down and converses with you and the guests as if nothing has happened. How can he do that after such a display?

Looking at it from your worldview, you served the four guests first because that is polite. You then served yourself because your place setting was nearest to the food so that was practical. You served the narcissist last because he was furthest away and also you gave him more than the others since you didn’t have to save any of the food for anybody else, since everybody had been served. The evening had been proceeding in a friendly and pleasing fashion with everybody enjoying themselves. There is, from your worldview, no reason at all for this sudden display of temper.

He returns with no apology or sense of embarrassment at his behaviour and continues as if he has just been to the bathroom or to answer the door. He is pleasant and charming to both you and the guests. Again from your worldview, you are left puzzled by this behaviour. Who on earth behaves like that?

Now you apply the toxic logic and the reason is all too clear. By serving the narcissist last you told him through this action, which was not accompanied by any fuel, that he was not important. This was a criticism. This wounded him. His self-defence response to this wounding was the ignition of his fury. He could not keep it under control because of the type of narcissist that he is. The fury therefore manifested as heated fury. He tipped the plate to the floor spilling the food and breaking the plate. This caused drama and had all eyes on him. The guests were taken aback and their gasps of surprise and shock provided him with emotional attention, thus fuel. Your stunned reaction also provided him with fuel. He then walked out, drawing further emotional reaction from everybody assembled and in another room he has been able to draw on Thought Fuel as he imagines the ongoing reaction to his outburst. All of this fuel goes to the repair of the narcissistic wound that he has suffered. His fury will abate and he will return at some point as if nothing has happened.

Indeed, he returns, fury abated and is able to switch back without any show of concern to be charming and pleasant, thus drawing positive fuel from all those he is engaging with. Out of politeness, nobody mentions the incident, no doubt fearing a repeat performance.

This is but one example amongst millions that normal healthy people and empathic healthy people just cannot understand. Internally, those who witnessed the incident may be anxious, puzzled, pleased that it is over, wondering what caused it, wary of it happening again and a whole host of other thoughts. None of them will actually understand why it happened. It is only the application of the toxic logic that allows you to understand it.

So, what is this toxic logic? I shall example the main principles behind it. As you read these principles I know you will be thinking such thoughts as

But that is insane

That is ridiculous

Why live like that?

Can’t he or she see how crazy that looks?

Remember, it only appears that way because you are applying your own worldview to these principles. In order to understand and apply the toxic logic you have to let go of your logic – for the time being – and just accept that these are the principles we operate by. As I mentioned before, it is irrelevant whether you like them or agree with them. You should not feel any need to challenge them. You should just accept that this is the way that it is and once you do that, you will grasp why we are as we are. These are the principles of our toxic logic.

  1. Fuel is everything to us. It governs everything we do, whether by instinct or by calculation.
  2. Nothing is ever our fault. Nothing at all.
  3. We are entitled to do what we want, when we want, where we want, how we want and with whom we choose.
  4. You are the competition.
  5. Everybody is an appliance that yields fuel.
  6. If you do what we want, you are good.
  7. If you do not do what we want, you are bad.
  8. There is no middle, no grey, no inbetween.
  9. The end always justifies the means.
  10. We have no concept of remorse, guilt or a conscience.
  11. The world is against us.
  12. Anything that blocks, defies, challenges or calls into question our superiority is a criticism., if it is done without providing fuel.
  13. We hate criticism
  14. Criticism wounds us and ignites our fury.
  15. We must control our environment. Control is paramount to us.
  16. We do not recognise boundaries
  17. We have no empathy
  18. We mimic and copy to pretend we have certain emotions and feelings.
  19. We lie repeatedly.
  20. Fuel is everything to us – worth repeating.

This logic is toxic because the outcome is that you are manipulated. We abuse people, we use people, we trample on people and do so without any concerns at all for that person’s wellbeing. You will be considering such behaviour and outlook at odious and reprehensible and coming from an empathic individual that is entirely understandable.

Let us apply the toxic logic to another scenario.

You send your narcissist a text message asking when he will be coming home. You receive no reply. You text again. No reply. You ring. There is now answer. Your narcissist eventually appears at 2am when you are lying still awake in bed. There is no apology, no explanation and he says nothing to you but gets into bed and falls asleep. You are left worried, bewildered and upset.

From your world view you cannot understand why he did not respond to a perfectly reasonable text message. You cannot understand why he did not tell you he would be late. You know of no reason why he would stay out so late and not warn you. You find it hurtful and upsetting and you are confused because he is meant to love you and if someone loves someone then they do not behave this way. I have heard such comments many times.

Now apply the toxic logic.

The narcissist is entitled to do as he pleases. Thus if he wants to stay out, he can.

The narcissist is never to blame. Therefore, he feels no compulsion to warn you he will be late, to apologise for returning late or to offer any explanation.

Your text message sought to exert control over him. You are the competition. This is prohibited conduct.

The text message was not accompanied by fuel. By suggesting that he was beholden to you, this amounted to a perception of criticism by the narcissist. He felt wounded. Some narcissists could control the fury that is ignited and might have answered. This narcissist could not. His response was cold fury through a silent treatment. Hence the failure to reply and answer the ‘phone.

He gained Thought Fuel knowing that you would be concerned and worried at his failure to reply and him staying out late. This would heal the wound and abate the ignited fury.

He was justified treating you in this fashion because he is entitled and the end always justifies the means. Further, fuel is everything.

Thus, when looked at from the narcissist’s perspective, applying the toxic logic everything makes perfect sense to him, but viewed from your perspective it will not. The toxic logic will repeatedly explain to you why we suddenly erupt, go silent, suddenly apply the golden period again, why we carry on like normal afterwards, why we never apologise or if we do it is a false apology and so forth. Everything about what we say and do, how we behave and respond appears nonsensical, confusing and puzzling when looked at from your perspective. This means you give us fuel, try harder to please us, submit to our manipulations and remain in our grip. It also means that your empathic traits of needing to understand, wanting the truth, being good and decent and trying to help are catered for. Thus, sub-consciously, you are getting something you need from it, even though it is upsetting you, angering you or frustrating you. Our behaviour, lacking any logic in your world, keeps you where we want you and also caters for your empathic needs meaning you remain in place.

Every time something happens which perplexes you, you will suffer the consequences of our toxic logic. You are hurt, upset, mystified, anxious and so on. If, however, you apply our toxic logic to what has happened you will work out why it has happened. It is not always easy to do. it takes time to work it out. It takes discipline and repeated application in a way that is alien to you. You will not like it. You will not approve, but you will understand. Once you start to understand, you gain control. Once you start to understand, the toxic effects of being confused, bewildered and lost are ameliorated. Once you understand, you can begin to establish a way to deal with the application of this toxic logic so that the effects become less and less effective. You are then taking your first steps to freedom.

39 thoughts on “Toxic Logic

  1. Asp Emp says:

    You know, being here for 4 months. I have read a lot. Understood a lot. Analysed a lot. Laughed a lot. Shared a lot. Cried a lot. Yet, how far have I really come? How far have I come to ‘progress’ forward? I am not ‘stuck’ in the past. Yet. I am stuck.

    1. lickemtomorrow says:


      You have probably come a lot further than you think, AspEmp. It's an incremental thing and I'm sorry if you are feeling stuck right now. It may be a little like dieting where you reach a certain point and then plateau. Plenty has been achieved, but you're still not quite where you want to be. And those last few pounds are refusing to shift. We often don't see how far we have come because we're edging to keep going forward. Being in a stuck place is probably par for the course in terms of your healing and recovery. It won't last forever and you will continue to get those 'aha' moments which will bring you closer to the end you desire. Many of us have been deeply wounded and it can take a long time to recover. You are on the right track x

      1. Asp Emp says:

        Hi LET, thank you, thank you for your response. I am not ‘wounding’ – far from it. Pi**ed off is probably more like it. In fact I am that fked off about it. You’re right – I don’t know where I want to be. Because I have not explored enough – not been given the freedom to do so. I am tired of being held back by “rules” that don’t fkg exist. I don’t want to be on a ‘plateau’ – that is not me. I don’t need to ‘lose’ any pounds either – I am not fat. LOL. Not fat enough to be put on a spit-roaster either. I sent HG an email and I certainly did not ‘hold back’. Sometimes there comes a point where not even a ‘supanova’ can reach the points of no return, it didn’t even reach the sides, never mind the flg corners. I haven’t even had a supanova, just fkg pi**ed off at being ‘caged’ like some fkg cow in some abattoir – I haven’t got some fkg bar-code on my neck or anywhere else for that matter.

        I belong to nobody and will NOT accept being made to feel I have to be controlled simply because of WTF it is all about.

        I am sorry for the number of F’s I have used in my response to you (yet I am not sorry in the overall scheme of things). But. Thank you for your response. I am still on supanova plutonic cloud number 1,000……. yet it is not! Fkg hell….. Muchos lovos to you LET xx

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          AE, good to know you were able to let off some steam to HG in an email. I’m sure he has a lot more insight into what is going on and has given you some good advice, too. It’s not nice being stuck and don’t worry about the fkg language 😉

          BTW, I wasn’t suggesting you were fat, just using that as a metaphor … since you gave me lovos at the end I’m guessing you knew that x

          1. Asp Emp says:

            Thank you x

      2. Asp Emp says:

        I do actually read back what I have posted / commented before – and I surprise myself. Impress myself at times TBH. I’ve got a bigger dick than a horse LOL.

        1. Truthseeker6157 says:

          Shetland or shire? 😂

          What people forget is that actually, we’re intelligent people. It is not normal for us to encounter problems we can’t find our way round. This makes us impatient and it increases frustration. You get the “ I should be over this by now.” Or “ Why am I just not getting this?”

          It’s an underestimation of the issue on our part. To understand narcissism we have to ignore our drivers and temporarily adopt someone else’s. We have to learn a new language that has nothing to do with communication. We have to dismantle the problem that was our own personal narcissist / narcissists and we have to do this stoned to begin with and in withdrawal later on. This drug takes a while to exit our system.

          Is it any wonder why this problem takes longer and is unlike any other problem we have dismantled before? No. It’s education, questioning, but sadly, and frustratingly, it also requires time.

          Chill Biggus Dickus, you’re doing just fine x

          1. Asp Emp says:

            Shire, for sure 😉

            Thank you for your input. I simply cannot ‘re-wire’ the brain I was born with yet sometimes I can use it in ways many other people do not have the ‘wiring system’ that I possess.

            My LT tells me I understand.

            “To understand narcissism we have to ignore our drivers and temporarily adopt someone else’s” – that is just it. We should not have to ‘ignore’ our drivers – yes, they may need ‘updating’ but not ignored. There is nothing wrong with temporarily ‘adopting’ someone else’s as long as we retain and re-configure ours.

            I think some people do not quite fully understand that if someone (like me) has lived alongside and ‘under the influence’ of narcissism during their whole lifetime until, one day, ‘bang’ – it’s like having sight to see until you are suddenly blind and having to do without sight. Like one massive mind-fk – as if having been dropped from the sky to the deepest quagmire of horse-s**t and not being able to breathe – even if I have the resources in my hands to be able to learn a ‘new language’ as you put it – I think I would justify that by saying ‘learning a new life’ and having to learn to live this ‘new life’.

            Having said all above – I also have spent a lifetime being “conformed to society” to be as how society think they have the right to dictate. However, Autism Act 2009 states otherwise. I have, yet, to see any of this-so-called ‘Act’ to be in practice, according to the Law. To date, this ‘Law’ has not had any benefit to me as an individual who has been ‘classed as such’ under this ‘Act’. Part of me is “retaliating” on this because of the fact I was brought up in the narcissists’ world and not living my own as an individual (never mind, as an empath).

            I think the suggestion of ‘Biggus Dickus’ could work – I can’t imagine these being said out loud (LOL). I am sure there are worse ‘names’ used LOL. Should I stick with Asp Emp, instead? Thanks again x

          2. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey Asp,

            I’m not sure I am fully understanding what you mean here. I’m sorry about that, I’m trying to.
            Reading top to bottom, you feel stuck and you want to move forward. Frustrated by living under narcissism where you thought the world was set one way only to find now that it is set differently. Between that and Asperger’s you feel constantly required to conform, being something that you aren’t and for what? For whose benefit? Is this what you mean about being stuck? You don’t know what ‘ normal’ is supposed to be?

            Sorry if I’m being slow here Asp, trying to get a fix on where you are xx

          3. Asp Emp says:

            Hey TS. You are not “being slow”. You got it right. No need to apologise – at all.

            From age 11, I knew my “parent” was different from other parents from my observations. I was always being told that I am not “normal”, Lesser said that, muvver said that.

            In fact I am ‘normal’, I always have been but was never allowed to develop into the person that I was born to be. Having said this, this is where my ET cannot be changed because society has not changed, despite Laws “indicating” otherwise. This part of my ET is not related to narcissism.

            My aspergers that was not diagnosed until nearly 7 years ago. That was a big shock & having to “learn” all about what is aspergers. And then having to apply all that ‘learning’ to myself as a person.

            Now, it’s having to “learn” all about narcissism. And having to apply that ‘learning’ to “re-write” my whole life. Once, again, “changing” who I am.

            Because of my brain’s wiring, I am having to ‘navigate’ through the “new channels” with the blocks of knowledge that have been ‘forced’ there by my past.

            It’s a bit like forcing a brand new hard-drive built in 2020 into a computer that was designed in the 1970s. The memory drive from the 1970s cannot be erased and it has to leave room for the new information from 2020 to be stored. So the new information needs to be redirected around the old information – using new ‘wiring connections’ – if you can understand.

          4. lickemtomorrow says:

            LOL to the Biggus Dickus reference 😛 It still cracks me up when I watch that movie.

          5. Truthseeker6157 says:


            That’s a great analogy, I understand you now x

            This may sound like a watered down Live Love Laugh comment, it isn’t meant to be. I think you will know what I’m driving at.

            I look at my two kids and I’m in awe of them sometimes. Their views, their developing personalities, their humour, strengths but also, faults, flaws, some would say ‘weaknesses’. I would never push or force them into a mould. I don’t want them to be like him, her, me or anyone else at all. If that is what was pushed onto you, someone else’s world view of how you should be or act or behave then it’s just plain wrong. It doesn’t always have to be full on abusive to still be wrong and have it’s impact and consequences.

            That’s quite late to find out about your Asperger’s too. In some ways I expect it was a relief to have your questions or concerns answered. In others a shock and a ‘ Well, there you go then’ moment. Confusing to have to think which part of things is you, which part pre determined by Asperger’s, but does it matter?

            The thing is, ‘normal’ ‘ ‘the correct way to behave’ ‘ the correct point of view’ it’s really just perception. It’s not actually real. We all live within our own perception of reality really. We’re all just on the inside looking out.

            I can’t walk past an unmade bed. I’m terrified of tests or exams, I hate apricots. So what? Does it matter? Who does it matter to exactly?
            I’ll never like apricots, if someone could give me some pointers on how to get round my exam phobia I might get benefit out of that. It might improve my own quality of life. I think you pick and choose Asp. I think you choose to amend or train or improve the bits of you that would improve your own quality of life, that’s it. If others don’t like it, then sorry, but that’s just tough. No one can please everyone. None of us can, even those with the normal upbringing in the stable family. You pick, you choose, you suit yourself now, no one else.

            You aren’t stuck. Not really. You know your own likes, dislikes, desires, dreams and fears. You know all of this without being told. So suit yourself and as you do that there’s a very strong chance that you will collide with another who sees the world similarly. Someone who relates enough to get it but most of all just accepts all the quirks, the mess, the emotion and the wonderful qualities that go to make up you. If you’re really really lucky, they will never ever get you to eat apricots! x

          6. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Ha ha, that movie just never gets old. X

          7. lickemtomorrow says:

            Monty Python will never get old for me, TS 😉

        2. lickemtomorrow says:

          Good to know, and that’s not an image I will forget easily, AE 😉

          1. Asp Emp says:

            LOL, I think someone suggested a new name for me 😉

  2. Terry says:

    My daughter is a narcissist. She really put me a d her dad through Hell. we raised our grandson until he was six.she used him to get at us. She found another victim and moved out. She wouldn’t let us see our grandson unless she needed something from us. She would still treat us bad. We ended up homeless because of her. She pushed our buttons . Push her dad and stressed him out so bad that he died of a broken heart. I don’t want any contact with her ,. But how do I do this when I have to keep telli g my grandson how much I love him. My grandson is nine , I just keep thinking of what he is going through. And there’s nothing I can do about it. He’s being mentally abused. Should I just let go of him too?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You either implement Total No Contact which means including your grandson in that regime or you implement Near Total No Contact and continue to have involvement with your grandson but understand this means you will continue to be involved with your daughter and therefore you risk being subjected to her behaviours. Alternatively, you take the matter to court and gain custody of your grandson and then impose no contact. If you require further help on this issue which requires a more expansive response than can be provided through the comment section, please arrange a consultation

  3. TheKarmikArmi says:

    I just ended one of the strangest relationships I’ve ever been in. I have never been left so befuddled, confused, used and hurt by someone. The many levels this relationship messed me up are beyond my comprehension. I had voiced it a few times, that my ex is a narcissist. A couple of times articles came up in my feed about narcissism. And they just affirmed my belief. This article really sealed the deal.

    I have so many questions about the relationship. So many why’s. I’ll never have closure or understanding. Even if I did ask for it I couldn’t believe it as it would probably be a lie.

    How DO people live like this? Did he ever genuinely love me? Did I ever actually matter to him?

    More important than anything else. HOW DO I LET GO?!?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. It varies dependent on the school of narcissism.
      2. No.
      3. Only with regard to the Prime Aims.
      4. You start with this and then you use this so I can answer your questions, explain what you need to do to let go and protect yourself and direct you to further resources which will hep you.

    2. MB says:

      TKA, when I read your post, my heart is absolutely bursting with happiness that you found this place. You WILL get closure here. HG will give you the answers to all of your whys. The money you spend for the narc detector and the audio consultation will be the best you’ve ever spent. You will understand it all. Knowledge is power, but it is also peace and that is what you need now.

    3. NarcAngel says:


      Welcome. You have arrived at exactly the right place to find understanding and have your questions answered. Prepare to be amazed.

    4. Stephanie Love says:

      When you find out, please tell me. I have tried for years. I literally can not walk away. It’s unbelievable for me to think this was a game and absolutely
      NONE of it was real? Like none of it? Unfathomable.

    5. Glynda Newton says:

      Imagine yourself in a prison beaten physically and spiritually. You are no longer recognizable, a distortion that comes from internalized anger turned to hatred. Imagine having no where to turn because loved ones are exhausted and have given up on you. Everything you once considered your strength or talent has been torn to pieces and denounced. This is how you let go…please let go. It is not too late!

  4. Latina says:

    Thank you HG. Sometimes, I need to remember how you guys think.
    It’s been hard, I can’t lie.
    I was hurt in so many manners at some may levels that I coudn’t even describe.
    You know when I started to heal? when he asked me to remind him the name of one of his “girlfriends.”
    He didn’t even remember he told me she was his favourite among all of them.
    Then, at that exact moment, I understood.

  5. Kylie says:

    Hey i just read your amazing insite and it blew my mind

    It did make me question myself.if im partly one myself because i am married to one but going through a seperation and set to divorce in a couple of months it would be cool to see your opinion and views or studies on what x2 narcissists look like being together i would love to chat more with you

    Kylie from
    New Zealand

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Kylie from New Zealand and welcome.

      1. Put the individual you are separating from, through the Narc Detector.
      2. Obtain the Divorcing the Narcissist Assistance Package – its information will save you a fortune not to mention avoid stress and aggravation.
      3. See When Narcissists Collide Parts One and Two.
      4. Do organise a consultation with me and you can chat away to me and I will solve all your narcissist problems.

      1. Gina Sherwin says:

        Hi. I’m new to your writing. How do I obtain the Divorcing the Narcissist Assistance Package? Thank you

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Hello and welcome Gina. Use this link

  6. WokeAF says:

    It is a CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY that your work is not FAMOUS.
    I’m not even blowing smoke up your ass
    This needs to change. I’ll do my part but I feel a sense of urgency to get your work really out there.

    1. WokeAF says:

      OK maybe it’s not a CRIME against humanity ….But it is a massive detriment That this is not public knowledge in general

    2. HG Tudor says:

      I agree. It is with your assistance and that of other readers that this can and should change.

      1. WokeAF says:

        Well I’m working on it.
        It’s been a year and a half of me being able to really grasp different levels of all of this .
        I remember when the narcissist’s worldview clicked and I really “got” it
        That was huge .
        Crazy so so much more is clicking in
        It’s Sooo obv
        My mom was a standard carrier, dad is a highly empathic normal , my daughter is an introverted magnet w codep and contagion, son not sure but defin not a normal or super.
        I can see who’s a narc , who narc-y but not narc, beginning to understand codep, I think I get super empath, grasping standard, ( I had thought all standards have a level of contagion that I experience) now I totally get Contagion lol DUHHH *facepalm*
        I can predict manipulation , beginning to be able to identify the manipulations (shoutout to K lol)
        and on top of all that I can trust my intuition it’s always been so bang on when I didn’t try to talk myself out of it, superimpose empathy and other people, or doubt it
        What a relief

        (Well except for my kids dad being a narc that’s not so fun to have to think about but I’m not going to dissect it that’d it be too much right now)

        Would you ever reveal your identity do you think? Like if you became famous enough?

        1. WokeAF says:

          And actually a new level of the narcissistic worldview just kicked in this week regarding control .

        2. WokeAF says:

          Re; my daughter – I believe she’s a standard magnet who has the contagion , just not as much as I do, and she has some codep tendencies -eg feeling responsible for other people’s feelings , but she’s pretty good at keeping it in check — same as me

        3. K says:

          Ha ha ha…I have my eye on you!

      2. Hannah says:

        Thank you. Thank you for sharing this. Thank you for saving my life.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome.

    3. ava101 says:

      Some people just don’t want to understand. I can give them examples of behaviour of narc in real life, just as outlined in this article, I can explain myself, or give them the link to these articles, which I do quite often — no, they still don’t see or accept it. Neither people involved themselves, nor “friends” of mine, who keep making excuses.

Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.