Putting A Sex On You

I was in session with Dr E.

“So,” I asked, “what is today’s topic for discussion?”

“Sex,” he replied.

“Do I have to talk about this with you?”

He pushed his spectacles back.

“You do not have to talk about anything, but I would hope you would discuss this with me.”

“Can’t I talk to Dr O about sex?”

“Why? Are you uncomfortable discussing sex with another man?” he asked. I could see he had his pen poised ready to make a note.

“Not at all. Sorry, doctor but there is no homophobia about me.”

“What makes you say that?”

“Well you were about to suggest that my reluctance to discuss matters of sex with you denotes a homophobic trait on my part.”

“Not at all, that would be prejudging you and an unsafe basis for analysis.”

“I don’t believe you,” I replied.

“Why would you rather discuss sex with Dr O?” he asked. He showed no sign of irritation or disappointment at my preference.

“I would be interested to learn her views about sex. She is so pristine and clinical when I see her, I want to know what goes on under the bonnet.”

“These sessions are about you not us,” said Dr E.

“Don’t worry Dr E I have no interest in whether you apply nettles to your scrotum or whatever it is you do to excite yourself.”

“Is that something you have done?” he asked.

“No but I have used them on someone else.”

“Male or female?”



“The stinging sensation across the nipples or the inner thighs of course hurts but then that gives way to a delicious flood of pleasure when combined with the application of my tongue.”

Dr E was scribbling.

“I see, so you enjoy the fact it hurts the other person and then becomes pleasurable for her?”


“Please do expand.”

“Will I get to talk about sex with Dr O?” I asked, shifting topic.

“On some aspects of sex, yes,” replied Dr E. I smiled.

“Good. Very well since that is going to happen and I will hold you to that promise Dr E, I will expand on my point.”

“I do it because the issue of that person’s pain and then pleasure is entirely at my gift. I control it and that appeals to me considerably.”

“So control in an sexual encounter is important to you?” asked Dr E.

“Control is the sexual encounter for me. I have little interest in my own sexual gratification, yes it feels pleasant when I orgasm but ultimately I can do that myself and invariably with more intense results. I have even less interest in the sexual gratification of another person. Denying them that sexual gratification? Now that is far more enjoyable than granting them their release. Sex is all about control. I am highly skilled in between the sheets.”

“Is that your conclusion or of others?”

“Both. You see I know how people think, I know how they react and I have had many sexual encounters with many different people. There are vast numbers of different permutations when it comes to what satisfies a person and no two people are the same.  I am like a super computer. I can rattle through the various combinations until I hit the right approach which will send my bedroom companion into orbit. I am willing to apply every part of my body, every facet of my sexual knowledge in order to make that person feel utterly orgasmic. That gives me huge control over them and makes me very powerful. I know what turns them on, what makes them moan and scream and shudder in orgasmic bliss. I use this massively powerful ability of mine to bring them under my spell. Once that is done I will grant it and deny it as and when I see fit. I will purposefully do the things that does not arouse them in order to make them react. I will caress a partner in a public place and whisper in their ear that if they show any kind of reaction to what I am doing I will stop and deny them any sexual congress for an indefinite period. This gives them an earth shattering orgasm and underlines my control over them. I will interrupt a row with a girlfriend by taking her against the kitchen workbench. She soon forgets what the argument was about as I have her moaning in delight before I just walk off before she climaxes. Imagine how she follows me about the house begging for me to “finish her off”? Think of the promises she makes just to feel me inside her again? That is control. That is power. I work out a person’s sexual key code and deliver heaven. They find that addictive and want it so much. I find the power attached to this ability addictive. When you go to bed with me you are getting the best. Nobody afterwards will come close to what I give you.”

There was a long pause as Dr E jotted down my words. He looked a little flustered to me. I wished it was Dr O sat there instead.

“Do you think a sexual encounter should be about something other than control?”

I laughed at this comment,

“Heavens no, that is its only function. It is an instrument, like so many other things, to bring you under my spell, but I must admit, it is probably one of the most potent and effective instruments. Sex is actually rather boring but controlling the reaction and emotions of another person, well, now that is far more interesting.”

“Have you ever wondered what it would be like to give up that control and allow yourself to be enveloped in the ‘moment’ with the other person?” asked Dr E.

“No I cannot give up control. You see, I know there are those that engage in being tied up and punished, you know smacked with an open hand or a cane. They may get a sexual reaction from being treated like this but the real reason they do it is that they are giving up control. I had a girlfriend who was very submissive and allowed me to do…well I will let you use your imagination there doctor, but she wanted zero control. She was high up in a bank and responsible for millions of pounds and hundreds of employees and she wanted to be divested of that responsibility and give up her control if only for an hour or two. I found her explanation interesting but I could not understand it. Why give up control? Why surrender something you have worked hard to achieve? Control is the ultimate aim of taking someone to bed. I control them in that bed and the spell I put on them means that control extends far beyond the bedroom, such is its power.”

Dr E nodded and continued writing.

“What if you lost your sexual potency? What if you became impotent?” he asked.

“Why would that happen?”

“Plenty of reasons. Alcohol abuse, substance abuse, diabetes, age, anxiety. There are many reasons why this could happen.”

I shook my head.

“People like me don’t suffer that. God gave me the gift of sexual brilliance to further my purposes, He would not take it away from me.”

“But if it did happen, what would you do? How would you manage with such a loss of this marvellous instrument of control?”

“Are you taking the piss now doctor?” I snapped.

“Not at all. Just posing a relevant question aligned to your desire for control.”

“Listen doctor, don’t project your problems in that department onto me, okay?”

Dr E remained silent. I copied him an just sat in silence glaring at him. How dare he suggest I would lose my potency? What an idiot. He ought to know better than that by now. I kept staring at him waiting for his next clever remark but he just stared back. This stand-off went on for a few minutes but I knew he would look away first. I maintained my baleful gaze as the fury at his impertinence coursed through me and then he lowered his eyes to his black and red notepad and made some more notes. I had won.

“Not so cocky now are we doctor?” I muttered under my breath.

Learn more about the narcissist’s view of sex in the ground-breaking book available here

542 thoughts on “Putting A Sex On You

  1. santaann1964 says:

    That’s great! I agree now that we are learning I plan on doing the same. So funny I’m actually excited about the contact because I am so prepared! And yes Mr. H I am. The love is gone!

  2. santaann1964 says:

    Well Mr. H the doctor is 💯 correct. First he told you a true fact that happen and probably will and second your reaction States clearly that you know it can.

  3. Renarde says:

    “…and then he lowered his eyes to his black and red notepad and made some more notes. I had won.”

    Too right you had! A red and black notebook. I’m offended on your behalf. All that money he’s getting with private consultations and he writes on one of…those?

    I bet the tight arse used a really scratchy biro too? You probably didn’t need to see his writing, the frantic clawing of the ‘nib’ would have produced various longer wavelengths that could have been detected via your (specially attuned) lower jawbone.

    Moleskin and Bic Crystal, I say.

  4. Renarde says:

    “Sex is all about control. I am highly skilled in between the sheets.”

    There are a lot of ‘gems’ from the House of Tudor in this one sentence.

    Control = tick (within pre-ascribed boundary conditions)

    Sheets = not.tick

    Sheets?!? You Heathen! You mean, you don’t DO duvets? Honestly! Frankly, I’m throwing in the towel at this one. Game. Changer

    How would I sleep under a gossamer thin sheet from Fortnums?

    Clue: I wouldn’t. That would make me crabby. There would be repercussions. Unfortunate repercussions.

    You can’t beat a nice feather-stuffed duvet.

    Or can you?

  5. Kate says:

    Hi HG,

    Being able to express myself on your blog has caused me to realize that I was speaking and thinking like a Victim.

    I communicated to this person that he should not contact me again, and will ignore any attempts of his to get me to change my mind. I no longer have any interest or desire to visit him or talk to him because he is disrespectful and abusive. It makes no sense for me to be so concerned for him and his issues when he does not care about me and my issues. I will not allow myself to continue to be treated this way. People like him make me feel gross.

    There is no more “unfinished business” with him. Thank you for your help!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

  6. ava101 says:

    So, Bridget Jones has 3 narcs around her in Bridget Jones’ Baby, yes?

    1. empath007 says:

      I don’t think so. Colin Firth’s characters usually aren’t. But the other guy…. definitely.

  7. ava101 says:

    Do you actually know who McDreamy is?

    1. HG Tudor says:


  8. MommyPino says:

    HG if a MR takes the Empath Detector questionnaire, is it possible that the result will be that the MR is an empath since the information are coming from him/her.

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. MommyPino says:

        Thank you HG!

    2. WokeAF says:


      1. MommyPino says:

        I was asking for a friend😜.

  9. Kate says:


    I am very confused by some men who I have been in relationships.with I cannot understand or know sometimes if someone wants me to go away or stay. Sometimes it seems that all they want in sex. Is that what you are doing with women that you date? Is it all just for sex? You wrote that sex is boring, so maybe not. Or do you enjoy their company? Or both? I don’t get the impression from your writings that you necessarily enjoy knowing the women you date, or do you? You seem very fond of your girlfriend who you have referred to as “Shield Maiden”. I know you write about residual benefits, so is that what it is all about for you? That (residual benefits) does not apply with me. All I have to give is myself and I can’t imagine that is enough. Can you understand or explain what people like this are doing or wanting from me? What is going on?? Your input would be very valuable.

    Thank you very much.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I am not dating anybody. I am in a relationship.

      It is clear you need assistance in unravelling what is happening and much of this depends on whether this person is a narcissist. I recommend you organise a Narc Detector Consultation and from that we can ascertain if he is a narcissist and if so I can then explain what is happening.

      1. Kate says:


        I don’t care much about this person. He IS a narcissist. I have unfinished business with him.

        The only man who I have ever really loved is my ex-husband.

        1. Kate says:

          Thank you for offering some help in the form of Narc Detection, HG.

          I know that this man is a narcissist because of many things, mostly because he makes me feel awful. Also, many examples of his behavior directed at myself and others in his life (who deserved his best treatment). Whether or not this particular person is a narcissist is not a mystery to me. I DO feel compassion for him (and YOU, even though you may not want or need it) .

          Maybe one day I will get to go out there to talk with him and see my (his) doggie, the Notorious R.I.T.A. and his three beautiful daughters. I have no intention of causing any harm to him or anyone else (when I said “unfinished business”, it could have sounded otherwise).

          Key Fact – this person has been EXTREMELY disrespectful towards me and I cannot forget that..

          I appreciate you and this blog of yours very much.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

  10. ava101 says:

    No, no, nooooo, Edward is not a narc!!! That’s like saying the prince in any Cinderella version / movie is a narc!!

    Multiple orgasms: for one, I think some guys know how to fuck, and some don’t. And then there are narcs, who enjoy keeping them from us, like my most current narc.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      So why are you remaining with him then since you know he’s a narcissist?

      1. ava101 says:

        I didn’t.

        1. Renarde says:

          Good for you!

        2. Alex Follow says:


      2. Renarde says:

        Harsh but fair.

    2. MB says:

      Ava101, Edward IS a narc. Think about it. Yes, it hurts.

      1. cb says:

        Even though the guy has a lot of social justice activism and does support a lot of causes, poor Richard Gere seems so ‘flat’ many times, he’s a bit like ‘mr Big’ from Sex and the city. Those facial expressions.
        Many marriages to celebrities and very young women.
        What is that all about?
        He seems so cold.
        Sorry, can’t make out anything else but that Richard Gere is a narc.

        1. Renarde says:

          The ever lovely Mr Gere once had a gerbil removed from his rectum. The internet says it so and I believe it!

      2. Renarde says:

        Ahh MB. Another twat in the world…

      3. ava101 says:

        Yes, it hurts! Next, you’ll be saying McDreamy / Patrick Dempsey is a narc!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Funny you should mention that…..

      4. MB: Hollywood must have a great laugh at how they deceive us with products like the movie Pretty Woman. Gym Time!!!!!!! Snow soldier today: White scoop net female t-shirt, light gray camouflage workout pants, black trainers and white socks and white cap and black workout gloves. and green camo sweater tied around my waist or gray sweater (not sure which sweater yet). Reading a little more HG Tudor and then will head out to the gym. Gym Time< MB!!!! I went Sunday, and now I am going today in a little while this afternoon/evening today: Tuesday.

      5. WokeAF says:

        Wait, Edward who? I can’t find it

        1. MB says:

          WokeAF, Edward Lewis. Richard Gere’s character in Pretty Woman. The first narc I fell for. He helped tenderize me! I didn’t mean Richard Gere although he probably is a narc too.

          1. WokeAF says:

            Ahhh haha.

          2. Renarde says:

            If I could take all copies of that film the world over and shove them in a pit and burn them, believe me, I would.

            It plays into the trope that all damaged females want to be rescued by the ultimate white knight. THIS is how we keep on being ‘captured’. It’s sick.

            There are no ‘knights’. There are, however, monumental predators.

  11. ava101 says:

    I know, I should just ignore him, but aside from that:
    If a narc hypothetically wants to punish me by not giving me sex, but talks about wanting to be friends, … and is all charming, but not getting close physically ANYMORE …
    after complaining that I had said I didn’t trust him ….
    … and if he had before played subtle games, such as NOT making me come, etc. ….
    And if he had dated other girls, while lying to my face about it when asked directly …
    What would be the best revenge on him, aside from ignoring him / going no contact?
    This is a serious question.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You cannot achieve revenge because your ET is too high. Apply no contact and stick to it.

      1. Renarde says:

        Agreed. Ignore. Move on. Live your best life. That will infuriate him beyond measure.

      2. WokeAF says:

        HG I read your book Revenge while my ET was still very high, but taking revenge would’ve been just too much work so I didn’t bother. However reading about the pillars of narcissism was a massive part of my understanding .

        1. HG Tudor says:


  12. Charlotte says:

    Just becoming familiar with this site and the blogs. I read this hearing my Xs voice as he could have written the same were he as articulate. He could control me from hundreds of miles away….granting and withholding, as if disobedience would cost me any future pleasure forever. Fortunately or unfortunately, I got out alive and he died. No one has come close to what he gave me in these 2.5 years since.

    1. Renarde says:

      Personally, I’m glad he died and you are here to tell the tale.

  13. Kate says:

    Hi HG,

    This is hilarious!!

    I had a similar / dissimilar telephone conversation with an ex-boyfriend a day or two before you posted this article. I would like to share..

    To give background – I have mentioned this person before. He lives 3000 miles away from me and we have not seen each other in over 4 years. We met around 5 years ago and I lived with him out there for 6 months before I left. During the last 4 years, we have texted and/or talked sporatically. I cannot remember the last telephone conversation we had before this recent one:

    A phone conversation that lasted over an hour, covered many subjects and somehow made its way to this. Basically, he was asking me if I have problems with this and with that (very personal female stuff), to which I responded, “You tell me. You lived with me. You know me. If there is something wrong with me, why do you continue to call me from 3000 miles away, more than four years later?” Right.

    For some reason, he still won’t make a viable plan to pick me up at the airport on whatever day he chooses (I would make the trip). I am not sure, but I think he is sulking because I did not send him pictures that he wants. I told him that he should not have erased the pictures that I gave him previously and should just see me in person. He is balking and he has ghosted on me again. Oh, well. I think this is all really weird. He took the conversation down a dark alley, also. Any thoughts on this?

    Great subject matter for conversation. Thanks!

    1. BonnieLou says:

      He’s not Egyptian is he?

      1. Kate says:

        Hi BonnieLou,

        His four grandparents were Apache, Mexican, Spanish and Portuguese (as far as he knows)

        I did have a boyfriend once who told me he was Egyptian and Indian (the country India)..

        Why do you ask? So curious .

        Also, HG, do you have any thoughts to share with us on this?? Thank you!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          On what?

          1. BonnieLou says:

            I can’t reply to your “did he walk like one” comment…but it made me laugh out loud!! You have a great sense of humour HG😊👍

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you.

        2. BonnieLou says:

          Mine is (was) Egyptian

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Did he walk like one?

          2. Renarde says:

            Oh my gerrrddd HG! I thought the same thing as well! The lead singer of the Bangles was Hot AF!

    2. Renarde says:

      Feel for you. I (at a very low point) entertained this kind of relationship. He was a LV.

      I want to say, very gently to you that you need to GOSO and then a NC. You do not need this kind of panjadram in your precious life.

      We only have one. Make it the best for you and then everything else will fall into place.

  14. Kate says:

    Were you “man-spreading” during this discussion your doctor? Haha..

  15. Yolo says:

    “Listen doctor, don’t project your problems in that department onto me, okay?” 😂😂

    HG, I await the release of the good doctors book.

    Geesh. reading this almost woke up the dead.😊🍒

  16. Bibi says:

    The best sex I have ever had has been with myself. It is a fascinating story of lust, longing and loneliness. Just don’t let your cats watch. And put a sheet over the birdcage at least.

    1. Bibi says:

      I take it back. The best sex I have ever had has been with Michael Fassbender. Granted, I was alone when it happened, but it still counts. God, I love Northern Ireland.

  17. Whitney says:

    I had complete control as a child. My parents were like my children. I remember thinking at a young age “I’m in charge of this family”. I supported them emotionally.
    I did whatever I felt…totally free. I’m happy for my childhood.
    Now I love how the grandiose Narcs control my life (my copdendent traits?). The MMR says things like “go get some rest” and I’ll say “I already did” and he’ll say it again “Go get some rest. Go to bed”. Things like this. “You don’t dress warm enough” (an ongoing thing). Selecting where we go and organising it. Talking to everyone so I don’t have to. Just taking charge of everything. Including my life, which I can run very well. It makes me feel safe and relaxed.

    1. Whitney: Safe and relaxed. I got it. This is real, girl. If I could have this for a few years, at least, I think I could balance out more, just like this as you said: [`Selecting where we go and organising it. Talking to everyone so I don’t have to. Just taking charge of everything. Including my life, which I can run very well. It makes me feel safe and relaxed`]. You want heels? No problem. Pink instead of red lipstick? Done. Light clothing versus dark clothing? Of course. Nude polish versus french manicure? Coming right up. Why did you wait so long before saying so? Hair in updo versus down? My pleasure. Football rather than baseball? No problem, let me put on my baseball hat. Who cares about some of these preferences? I do not. You want it, I got it. Makes my decision making a whole lot easier, Whitney. And after a while, we could share the control more if he so desired. I feel like crying, Whitney. Do I have my own personality? Of course I do, and part of my personality desires someone like this. And of course I would like to make a few small requests of my own, that I sure would not be an issue. For example, ……nah….no examples at this time. But, if I could find a guy like this, that did not see me as someone to destroy to feed his pathos, of course, and he was on my side, against the entire world, I would not ask for anything else, really.

      1. Caroline R says:

        Your comments here resonated deeply with me.
        This is a raw point for me:
        If I could find a man that I’m attracted to (respect, admire and could love)..”one that did not see me as someone to destroy…and he was on my side, against the entire world, I would not ask for anything else, really”.

        I’m easily pleased.

        It should never be underestimated the power that a man has to unlock sexual pleasure in us when he makes us feel safe and protected first.

        A Sexy Protector.
        Top of my wishlist.

        1. WokeAF says:

          I also desired a safety net. I’ve been struggling and pulling every reserve I have within me for many years to keep myself and my kids stable financially, emotionally, every other way
          I’m pretty sure that’s why i continued w a couple of my narcs. They gave the illusion of having my back

          Have since realized that life gives you exactly what you need in order to evolve . It’s tailor- made for you.
          One might get someone that makes them feel safe but then life will throw other things at them to challenge that disposition.
          Especially for empaths that are truth seekers of course.

          I went within to find the scared exhausted part of the character that wanted to be saved, and embraced it, and made a decision to have faith in life‘s bigger picture, and to completely surrender to the fact that I sometimes feel exhausted and scared and except it as WHAT IS.
          No resisting it, no running from it, no trying to change it.

          I no longer desire someone to make me feel safe.

          That’s my experience and if it’s helpful to you or anyone then that’s awesome

          1. Woke: You are right. It is easy to forget to not be thankful, in a world that is constantly pushing what is available if you just want it bad enough, `they` say. I remember living through the 911 trade towers attack, and also Hurricane Sandy, and also during the last major Blackout. I was so happy to just have a place to live and food and clothing…for quite a while, on the East Coast of the U.S. So, it is good to be reminded, that many of us have more than what the rest of the world combined has. Including when we have pretty good health on top of the basics. And not running from war, or plagues or political overthrows and failed currencies. I rather you remind me here, than a major disaster reminds me. Thank you. I will reflect.

          2. Renarde says:

            This is a very powerful post WaF. I think you are on the right track.

            Well done you!

          3. WokeAF says:

            PSE not only is gratitude wonderful for one’s inner state

            But I find most ppl are resisting what IS.
            Including their defects.
            As soon as we realize, oh, I’m prideful, oh I go to victim mentality, oh I get jealous, oh I feel insecure
            Ppl jump to either deny , or resist, or CHANGE it. (Change is resisting also)

            I advocate ACCEPT it. SEE it, and kept eyes open for when it comes to the surface.

            when you really SEE THROUGH something, and recognize it happening- it loses power.

            Then it dissipates
            And a new mode of functioning will appear naturally
            Bc as they say , nature abhors a vacuum 😆
            You can even offer a new go-to , like gratitude, when you identify the old go-to popping up, and don’t know what to think in it’s place. But I’ve found just seeing it and allowing it drains a lot of its power

            And I’ve just lost track of why I’m typing this ha
            So I’ll trust it’s value and leave it

          4. WokeAF says:

            Oh yeah!
            Ok I remembered – wanting a safety net
            That , energetically, has me living in a state of WANTING.
            I saw it, I accepted it as it is , i let it be , but had awareness of it
            Then it went away.
            It wasn’t a healthy desire. It was a desire that screams “I’ll give my power to you if you just do THIS”

            And that attracts narcs

      2. Whitney says:

        Princess Super Empath you have so much personality. Your personality cannot be blunted!

        You should find an empath man. They are caring in an even better way. I paired with one before the grandiose Midranger took over. At a social sport, me and the Empath were a pair for months. He would take care of my belongings. At the party he made sure I was having fun. He cared for my feelings. There is nothing more attractive than love and emotion.

        The Empath left me the moment the Midranger took over. Now the only one rivaling the Midranger is another Narc. I should have picked the Empath!

        1. Whitney and Carolyn. This song played in the Gym Today: `Something Just Like This.`

          I’ve been reading books of old
          The legends and the myths
          Achilles and his gold
          Hercules and his gifts
          Spiderman’s control
          And Batman with his fists
          And clearly I don’t see myself upon that list
          But she said, where’d you wanna go?
          How much you wanna risk?
          I’m not looking for somebody
          With some superhuman gifts
          Some superhero
          Some fairytale bliss
          Just something I can turn to
          Somebody I can kiss
          I want something just like this. ~~~~ Coldplay, The Chainsmokers

          1. Whitney says:

            Thank you Princess Super Empath, the Wise one, I love it

        2. Renarde says:

          I’m sorry but I doubt very much if he was an empath.

          1. Whitney says:

            Renarde are you talking to me? Don’t be sorry, I love it! So grateful for your fascinating insights. Why do you doubt he was an Empath?
            Because he took care of my belongings? Is that controlling? The Midrangers do the same. They start handling my wallet and phone, taking care of my car, etc.
            You are beautiful.

          2. Renarde says:

            Yes, I was talking to you.

            You are very kind, on numerous fronts.

            This exchange was a week or so back? Had to refresh the ‘little grey cells!’ Yeah. I need to be very careful I dont project my own rampant cynicism on people. I’ve noticed that I do this. Apologies.

            Someone up thread said ‘But where are the Male empaths? They do exist. Pretty sure that my GD maternal was one. I’m sure I had one as a boss. I remember two I met at Uni and one became a mate but we sadly lost touch. He was a card.

            It’s just it’s really rare. And unfortunately, they are the target of bullying in my perception. Ring led by the unaware narcs who then rope in norms. Its tragic.

            So because of how society places little to no importance on Male emotions, it’s much more likely they repress and bury with catastrophic results. At least females are largely expected to be emotional.

            Hope this makes sense?

            Anyway. Thank you for your words.

            You’re beautiful too. X

          3. Whitney says:

            Thank you so much. I feel worthless and heartbroken because of the Narc, and your words made me happy and proud.

            I’m not sure how to keep track of comments without manually looking.

            I agree male Empaths are rare. Females are empathic to care for babies and children. Men are designed to kill animals.

            My dad is an Empath or Codependent. I have at least 5 Empath male friends who I’ve had deep conversations with and we’ve supported each other. I have zero interest in Narc or Normal friends… they bore and disgust me. I want someone true and genuine, with good values, and we can share our deepest emotions and experiences and laugh and cry together.

          4. Renarde says:

            Awww! I’m glad my words made you happy!

            I do look out for these unicorns. I’m happy to associate with narcs as long as they dont attempt to try to manipulate me (they try). Like you, I’m not drawn to normals. I find them somewhat ‘flat’. Just not my cup of tea.

            The minute I realised that the only person I could rely on was myself, things started to change.

            I’m sure you appreciate this. When awareness comes (and for me it came in stages and is still ongoing) I was STAGGERED how naby times I’d be functioning as a non consensual NISS.

            It was horrible, truly horrible to remove access to me from people I’d known 20 odd years. The worst part was removing the neutral and empathic people who through lack of understanding had snared narcs. My behaviour in removing ALL would abruptly played into my exs smear that I’m unhinged, depressed and crazy.

            But what could I do? HG is absolutly correct. The network was deep and vast.

            Very funnily enough, there us a man in that group who I strongly believe is the son of a MR. Since the blanket removal, someone using his name, maybe him, has attempted to make contact twice through social media. Again, what could I do but ignore? If it was him, his unawares makes him utterly compromised.

            If by some fluke, he had attained his own awareness (and this WOULD be an ally as once you’re at a certain level you can never be corrupted, even by a G), he would have come and found me in person. Because that’s what I would do.

            Anyway. Ramble. To have an empathic friend would be marvellous. I just dont have one in my matrix I can trust.

          5. Whitney says:

            Renarde: you are articulate, intelligent, beautiful, interesting, kind (and more!)

            That is brave to remove people you’d known 20yrs. Good for you. How are you doing?

            You need not care what anyone thinks. If they love you, they love you. They will accept you. If they don’t love you, you don’t need them.
            And remember: Someone’s capacity to love is a reflection on themselves- not you.

            The son of a Midranger? Was the Midranger your ex? And his son tried to contact you?

            Anyone would be extremely lucky for your friendship. You will find Empaths worthy of your friendship.

          6. Renarde says:

            I’m doing a lot better. I’m still recovering from an ALMIGHTY shock from a month ago. I’m still not able to talk about it openly. I think what was important is that it didn’t plunge me into despair.

            Yeah that friendship group. Started out as us females meeting then in a very weird twist 4 out if 5 of us went on to marry men who were already there at uni.

            This guy is the husband of one of the girls, not my ex on the face of it. I only met this guy once but he was probably a middle.

            Of course, anyone could’ve been behind that avatar. Its crap but I have the comfort of knowing I behaved utterly impeccably and didn’t even attempt to remove the smear on my name.

            The smear that everyone believed be cause the truth that they grossly let down someone so close to maintain the facade, would shock others at their rank hypocrisy. They have things to lose.

            You’ve been so kind. Thank you x

          7. Renarde says:

            Anyway, today’s research is the fractal universe. Fascinating!

          8. Whitney says:

            Renarde xx these people sound like idiots. It must have been traumatising.
            If they believe smears about you they are unwise, sheep, unempathetic, dullards, boring. I can picture it.

            That’s right you can only control your reactions, and you can be proud about behaving impeccably.

            That is insanely impressive, the fractal universe 😲😲😲😲 Go Go beautiful Super Empath Renarde! These idiots are behind you and you are free for your incredible life!

          9. Renarde says:

            Ahh well…of course the super ironic thing is that they are all of a good standard of education, one even joined me and ex in the lofty heights of the world of the post grad! He’s OK. (This also proves that just like an MOT, the cert is only good on the day it was issued.)

            It must have been perplexing and bewildering for the norms and empaths in there. But they were much to much under the thrall of the people (ALL WOMEN! Other genders are available) who were holding the reins.

            I do have a slight confession. I didn’t behave as utterly impeccably as I would have wished to. After ‘The Great Cull’, a particularly odious female ‘dullard’ tried to have a pop, or warn me off. One of the two. Anyway, I’m sorry, Narc Trait rose rapidly to the forefront and after I had called her out on her utter rank hypocrisy (she had other group members in tears before now), I just might have said that how she got her degree remains one of the Universes’ great unsolved mysteries.

            And then back to fractals and the Mandelbrot. Dullard was interviewed by the Radio Times and admitted shoplifting in Waitrose of all places. Other frenemy worries about the cost of replacing the roof on her manor whilst her close friend of twenty years is a struggling single mum who at times didn’t have enough money to put electricity on the meter.

            Both of these examples show narcissism at it’s worst. In my view it’s utter hypocrisy and utter stupidity. Coupled with a monumental lack of awareness. The smart and aware people would have seen the way it was going to go years ago and get closer to me in order to disseminate information at it’s purest source. Which in one case was precisely what happened.

            We are all complicit in this because we are all part of the system. You cannot change the system from within. You need a new system in order to do that. The harder you push back against the system, you get a progressively harder and harder response. This in essence is the nature of fractals in which I perceive it at this moment. It’s why I’ve become obsessed with them, The mathematics behind it.

            Until about three months ago, the only contact with fractals I had was in clubs as part of visuals. I saw it as something that largely academic (and soft drug taking) males got very intrigued with, I just didn’t get the point other than they were beautiful. Part of the counter culture acid revolution in the UK in the early nineties. We grew up with it.

            Thing is, I had been told all of this many times before. Whether it was PN, or ex, I was being told, very loudly and very clearly to get out of the system itself. PN manifested this (clumsily) by imposing isolation. But I still had to interact with it because that’s what I had been programmed to do. Career, house, children etcs, Ex wanted to physically remove us by going off grid. Again, I refused. That is however, precisely what ultimately happened.

            I through other circumstances, was physically impelled to leave ‘the system’. Then I had to emotionally quit it before finally mentally de-linking.

            I have no idea of what I am saying to you is understood. If it’s not then it’s me. Hope you get it?

            I am however, greatly enjoying our conversation and I appreciate your support so very much x

          10. Whitney says:

            Dearest Renarde
            I’m impressed and in awe, but I don’t understand fractals. It’s relaxing to study something logical. It’s a respite from emotions.
            It feels good to think about the bigger picture too and dissociate.

            They were bullies and it’s impressive you confronted it!!! Most people don’t have the guts to do that. That’s how bullies are successful… people are afraid of being ostracised next.

            I feel sunken and lethargic. I don’t know if it’s heartbreak, or the break of an addiction. I’ve been harassing HG about it.
            I talked to 3 friends about this man (a MMR Somatic according to the the Narc detector). They diminish him and say all sorts of things- he’s a demon, a lowlife, narcissist, you can tell he’s crazy from across the room, I need an exorcist etc. I feel better to talk because it’s fulfilling my addiction.

          11. Renarde says:

            That’s a good point, it does help me disassociate!

            Thank you x

          12. Whitney says:

            I keep thinking the MMR is an Empath so my friend sent me a video “10 Signs a Psychopath is Targeting You”, to explain his kindness.

            I wonder if he’s a Psychopath? The one who choked me during sex. He looked like a Demon during sex. He’s the most charming and likable one yet, by far.

            I found out he grabbed the throat of a Lesser narc. Because this guy slapped his face “jokingly”.

          13. Renarde says:

            You mean, is he aware?

          14. Whitney says:

            No- he’s not a psychopath. He was caring and Empathetic. See how my brain is spazzing out. I am confused.

          15. Narc noob says:

            Renarde, “you cannot change the system from within. You need a new system in order to do that.”

            Exactly!! Needs to be done outside of said system, a new one that can run alongside, and shows t is better than the current one.

            Now I just need some more clever and lateral thinking to help implement that….. said someone who doesn’t know where to start as every *idea* has been rejected within 30mins of that idea cropping up 🙄🤨😭

        3. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

          Whitney: I asked HG about the dullness one feels after removing oneself from the Narcissist. HG says our Emotional Thinking HIJACKS the dullness feelness that we feel post the Narcissist and MAGNIFIES the feeling to the point that we actually consider going back to the Narcissist for relief. The emotional thinking is addicted to the Narcissist. The Emotional Thinking will hijack any feeling we have and magnify the feeling in order to try to convince us to go back to the Narcissist for relief. Do Not Listen To Any Thought That Says Going Back To The Narcissist Will Provide You With Relief. The Emotional Thinking Is ADDICTED to the Narcissist and will con us to go back to him by any means it can get a grip on. THE EMOTIONAL THINKING IS ADDICTED TO THE NARCISSIST. THE EMOTIONAL THINKING ERRONEOUSLY THINKS THAT GOING BACK TO THE NARCISSIST IS SO GOOD TO DO. THE EMOTIONAL THINKING IS WRONG. THE GOLDEN PERIOD IS GONE. DEVALUATION AND DEGRADATION WILL AWAIT YOU. Whitney, the Emotional Thinking is an addict with anxious eyes and desperate for a hit, and is racing around to find the Narcissist. Do not feed it. Fight through the natural feeling of ennui. Do not let the Emotional Thinking make more if it than it is. It takes time to recover yourself. You will slowly lighten up day by day.

          1. Whitney says:

            Omg. Thank you so much PSE. I feel Like I’m cured from reading that. You are a great communicator PSE.
            I will copy it and reread it. I’ve been crying in bed because someone at my sport told me he lost his job and was bullied. He is a small Asian man, he labored 12hr days then came to the sport. He said I’m so sad Whitney, my heart hearts. And he said it’s a hard life. Im profoundly sad. This sadness, as well as my listless confusion. It was too much.
            I will slowly lighten. Thank you PSE you are an angel.

          2. Kim e says:

            Thank you for sharing this. answers why I feel dead inside. I just couldn’t wrap my head around it. And the days I wake up not feeling dead inside, I wake up very anxious. My ET must be going thru withdrawal.
            What a process it is just to reclaim yourself.

          3. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Whitney and Kim e. I and MB discussed this in dept with HG Tudor on an article somewhere on Narcsite. It is just shocking how treacherous the Emotional Thinking is! The E.T. has no pride and no shame and will do just about anything to drag us back to the Narcississt. The Emotional Thinking is an addict for Narcissism. How do I know this? One time I asked H.G. what is the purpose of our Emotional Thinking? Not our natural and good emotions, but, Emotional Thinking? You know what HG said? The Emotional Thinking works to keep us engaging with and addicted to Narcissists. How about That? Unbelievable. The cunning and clever and insidious and shameless enemy inside of us is Emotional Thinking. And it will hijack anything and any feeling and any person to get us back to the Narcissist: It is his birthday! It is an anniversary. Maybe he needs his toothbrush back that he left over. His favorite series is back on TV. I cooked too much food, I wonder if he is hungry. He lost his job, maybe he will die because he lost his job. I just want to say hello to his sister, and he has her number, etc. IT NEVER ENDS with the sneaky and conniving Emotional Thinking which is always, always, always always, always, always , trying to drag us back to the Narcissists. Fight Back! Shut it down! Once we Know about Emotional Thinking, we better learn how to reign it in. Emotional Thinking is not our friend, but a Traitor. It is about the moment, and pro Narcissists and at end a TRAITOR that will not be there for us, when it is time to un-pry the pieces of ourselves that are trapped on the Wheels of Misery. Again.

          4. Whitney says:

            Dearest PSE thank you ❤️
            I am so fucked in the head

            I just want to know WHY am I inherently addicted to Narcissists (Emotional Thinking).
            WHY do I have Emotional Thinking (to Addict me to Narcissists)
            I am so confused.

            I understand why Codependents are addicted to Narcissists. HG’s magnificent book “Chained”. The Codependent feels empty inside and fills the void by living through Narcs’ facade.

            The first Narc, the LMR Somatic. I lived and breathed him. To me it was Heaven on Earth to be in his presence. I stared at him in Awe when he spoke. I needed to be close range to his beautiful face and pale blue eyes and watch his monologue rants!

            Two since him, and they have such a presence and Magnetism.
            Why Am I Not Good Enough for Them?

            Because I hold my emotion inside? I don’t tell them how much I love them, because I don’t want to scare them? I keep my feelings to myself.

            I built so many things before the LMR Somatic. I cannot focus on my things now, for the past 3 years.

            The Narcs need me? They do not. I need them. Who is empty, it is me! Not them. They keep with their lives, and I cannot.

          5. Whitney says:

            My friend is now saying the one who choked me is a PSYCHOPATH.
            I would like to define him as that.
            I still don’t believe he’s a Narc. When I believe it I will go No Contact.
            You don’t know if you haven’t met him yourself.

          6. NarcAngel says:

            Wtf? If someone chokes you they don’t have to be a narcissist for you to go no contact.

          7. Whitney. We do not need Narcissists. It is an attraction because they are lacking in emoting and we emote a lot. Once we realized they are Narcissists now, we have the advantage. When we know, we go. WE Get Out and Stay Out. GOSO> We can control ourselves. Any time we feel disrespected, we move away.

          8. Whitney: There are 2 types of magnificence in a man. 1) The way he is magnificent in general and 2) the way he is magnificent in the way he treats you with concern and respect and caring, etc. In a personal relationship, how he treats you has to be the magnificence first of all. If he is magnificent beyond that, it is a bonus. You. You. You. How does the person treat you has to always be in the forefront of your mind in an interpersonal relationship.

          9. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Whitney: A man that chokes You and a man that wants to blow Your mind out with drugs is not magnificent in the way he treats You and thinks about You and the preservation of Your body and Your mind. Such men are slow killers to You. Those are bad batches of men for You. Whether or not they are Narcissists, or Narcissistic or just Not `Nice.` Whitney, Return Such Men To Sender immediately. And start shopping for men at: Boundaries R Us. Whitney, make a checklist for Yourself about how You want to be treated and what You need from a man. Men make checklists about women all the time. And they categorize us and they decide upon how they will treat us and what they need from us such as: Women that are Wife Material, Wifelike, Mistress, Girlfriend, Friend with Benefits, Dirty Little Secret, One Night Stand, Women to choke and drug up and bind and torture, and punch, and even to kill, etc, and women to respect and love and nurture and treat magnificently. Therefore, You Whitney, YOU, YOU, YOU, pick Your category for Yourself first, regarding what respectable category You will be found, and if any man does not treat You accordingly, send him packing and out the door and let the door Hit him in a magnificent manner, on his way out.

          10. Whitney says:

            Dear PSE thank you 💖 the LMR didn’t want me to take drugs, we were talking about esctacy so he said he thought I’d be crazy on esctacy. It was just a devaluing comment- he saw me as unpredictible, over emotional, hyper, etc, so he thought esctacy would have a big impact on me compared to other people.

          11. Whitney says:

            Thank you PSE for explaining the attraction is because they are lacking in emoting and we emote a lot. Thank you for explaining the Magnificence. That’s the right way to think.
            I feel worthless for the Narc to not treat me right. But I know he would not treat anyone right.

            Narc Angel he choked me during, sex not hard. I thought maybe he was trying to do S&M and thought I’d like it. I attribute the nicest possible explanation to people’s behaviour. A Narc told me I do that.

          12. HG Tudor says:

            And that is your emotional thinking Whitney.

          13. WAF Tudorita says:

            Well like I think about my kids dad- who’s shitshow whirlwind thru life as a victim narc has him next to homeless every other year-
            Sorry he’s sad , but he made his life choices the same as the rest of us and I’m not paying for his bad choices just to make him a little less sad.

          14. Whitney says:

            Thank you HG but if you met him you might say he’s an empath

          15. HG Tudor says:

            No, I would not.

  18. SMH says:

    Hmm. Well, one thing that puzzled me about MRN was that we had this very, very intense attraction, and our sexual banter was constant and excellent. I have no doubt that he loved my body and that we loved having sex with each other. Yet in reality, he was not the best lover I’ve ever had (I do think I was the best that he’d ever had). The sex wasn’t bad. It just didn’t blow my mind. Maybe because he was a cerebral and really was somewhat insecure? I would have to reassure him that there was nothing wrong – and there wasn’t really anything wrong. It just wasn’t exceptional.

    He had plenty of tricks to control me but he didn’t really use sex as a weapon, at least when we were together. He didn’t make me beg. Nor did he withhold. He was never violent or rough, though he was direct and dominant. He would be distant of course and make plans that wouldn’t come to fruition but he was most normal when we were actually together and in bed.

    HG, might it be that only Greaters use sex in the way you describe? Also, I think there is something other than the actual physical sexual act that accounts for the addiction – it is chemical and has nothing to do with the narc’s talent in bed.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No, all schools use sex to control – the manner by which it manifests depends on cadre and school. Some of the behaviours described in the article may well be used by others, but not all schools.

    2. Renarde says:


      I’ve been thinking about this one for a while now. Yes, I do believe that there is something else, it’s energy. Contagion. Not all narcs have the ability.

    3. Renarde says:

      Also, PN is a cerebral. Aware. I had a convo with mum last summer about sex. She said he was rubbish. I believe he is her only sexual partner. She then went on to talk about orgasms. Apparently, she has one every time. This shocked me somewhat but what she said next left me speechless.

      ‘Oh yes Ren, every time. Well, you’re here aren’t you?’

      My mouth just kept on opening and closing. Like a fish.

      Poor woman, having that fat, disgusting pig on top of her.

  19. Bluewave says:

    My mid range narcissist wasn’t very skilled in bed. He was skilled before bed (sweet talking, dirty talking) but the sexual act was mechanical. Of course he thought he was great. He even thought I had an orgasm when I didn’t. I told him I hadn’t and he was shocked. He was 100% sure I had. Then he started blame me like there was something wrong with me because in his mind I SHOULD have after all superb things he did (in his opinion).

    Now I think that maybe other narcissist’s victims are too shy to tell them they do not orgasm with them and that’s why the narcissist still thinks he is great.

    1. WokeAF says:

      I’ve only ever been sexually disappointed by the cerebral .

      1. WokeAF says:

        Wait! That’s wrong! My somatic was good at everything except giving head.
        Naturally why would he be good at giving head? That’s only for me he didn’t see benefit from it I guess

        My MMR elite however it was fantastic it had. But that’s because he fuelled from my reaction.

        I will correct myself and say that the only time I felt like the sex was mechanical was with the cerebral

        1. WokeAF says:

          “MMR elite was fantastic at head”

          Damn mic.

        2. Jacqueline says:

          My guy refused a tiny kiss…refused oral to me but got his from me throughout a 3 year span…massage…dinner and more for him, but no flower or a coffee for me…to hell with being kind to a narc
          Also he refused ever a compliment to my beauty…only to brag on his beautys before me or present…
          Shame on me
          Shame on you A.k.D.
          Why ?

          1. WAF Tudorita says:

            Yes mine would never ever compliment my looks but would talk about his ex being cute , or tell other women they look nice etc right in front of me. I wish I’d known what I know now bc I wouldn’t have reacted .

  20. cb says:

    Can I ask if Dr E and Dr O will read this post?

    I’m not sure why he made you uncomfortable about wanting to be questioned of your intimate sexual stuff by another doctor.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      They may have done, but probably not.
      He didn’t, he irritated me because I wanted to talk about sex with Dr O and not him.

      1. cb says:

        Sorry I was a bit unclear, should have written: I’m not sure why he tried to make you uncomfortable

        I mean that Dr E seemed a bit odd, to me, in this post.

        I get the feeling he tried to push you to talk about these issues with him , even though you had asked for Dr O.

        I feel he overstepped your boundaries. Is all.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you for clarifying CB. Of course he did, he is one of our kind.

          1. Desirée says:

            I didn’t realize Dr. E was a Narcissist, I remember in one of your Q&As you stated the good doctors where more empathic and it pleased you that they seem to want to help you. What about Dr. O and are they still your therapists?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You have to be mindful of who is listening.
            They are.

          3. cb says:

            Sounds abusive, and touché for you HG

            You seem to have been with Doc therapy group for at least four years.

            Let me se, so Dr O doesn’t know that Dr E is an abusive person?

            Maybe Dr E is selfaware and therefore generally dangerous.

            Dr O and some others, like Dr I, aren’t really aware that they haven t made you feel like opening up.

            Maybe you could leave these guys. Try out a new chapter. See what happens.

          4. Desirée says:

            Re: you have to be mindful of who is listening
            They games truly are always being played. I would be interested to read some more of these anecdotes

          5. WokeAF says:

            Will he become more self-aware from his sessions with you?

          6. HG Tudor says:


          7. WokeAF says:

            He won’t become more self-aware from his interactions with you, because his narcissism is such that he truly believes he is a good person? Which means he is a mid Ranger?

          8. HG Tudor says:


          9. WokeAF says:

            Sweet thx

          10. MB says:

            I like this revelation about Dr. E!

          11. Gab says:

            If he is a narcissist, a mid ranger who tries to fix your narcissism while he has no idea what he is, how you can respect him as a doctor? You already know he is lower in hierarchy than you because you are the Greater. So I guess these sessios may be fun for you because you can play with his narcissism and collect some fuel but I doubt it can help you in any way. Comparing to you he is just a stupid ignorant. It seems like a waste of time, I wouldn’t attend sessions when I do not respect knowledge and skills of the teacher or therapist and when I know more about topic then them.

          12. HG Tudor says:

            Hello Gab,

            1. I do not respect him.
            2. Yes I gather fuel and I enjoy playing games.
            3. I attend the sessions because of the residual benefits that are provided to me.

  21. Chihuahuamum says:

    Forgot to expand on the element of giving up control during sex. Some like to be dominant some like to be submissive. Ive always loved being submissive but that doesnt mean i like giving up control in my life. That is more for fun and like acting out a role. I love the element of fun with sex and its healthy to be able to try new things and not make sex so serious but it does become very serious with a narcissist. They turn sex into a heavy and serious matter. At first its the most enjoyable fun liberating experience but then it turns into the most upsetting trapped experience. Eventually you become appathetic and numb to it. It means nothing which it was all along.

  22. Chihuahuamum says:

    I love this doctor E bc he has narcissists figured out! Towards the end he delivers a jolt of reality which triggers fear then fury. Fear triggers anger in many especially a narcissist.
    Hes right no one has complete control over life. Things change continuosly. Tragic events, sickness, disease. To a narcissist this is shattering bc they lose control and control is their identity. Its like declawing a cat. You disarm them but it is true. What dr E needs to realise tho and maybe he does is that many narcs would just evolve and use other tactics aside from sex if they became impotent. Theyd focus more on the psychological aspects.
    I think dr O was preferred bc she was a woman and it was sensed or believed she was attracted to HG and that means the potential to manipulate and try to extract info about her to aid in that.
    The way it was written is exactly how my narc has been. Hes perfected what ive wanted and has given and taken away but in the process its become less and less effective. Like taking an antibiotic too much you develop a tolerance to it and it no longer works.
    The knowledge i have about npd combined with the cycle of giving and taking away has really made sex meh and not really worth anything anymore. Id much rather watch porn and masterbate. Where i do struggle is the codependancy in other areas of the relationship. That imo is more potent! Thats where narcissists morph and will just move on to another area of weakness.
    I think a somatic would struggle most with the loss of sex as a tool. Sex is very powerful but it loses its power the more its taken away and given back.

    1. Renarde says:

      Love you Chihuahuamum (and my the way, I will be extremely disappointed if you don’t own Chihuahuas!)

      I believe you are wrong on this one. Dr E being a fucking boring MR will possibly have had glimpses of his own narcissism but not enough for him to become aware himself.

      So, every time he attempts to ‘analyse’ HG is a riot for HG.

      I daresay he scribbled in his notes that Our Dark Lord had a sexual fascination for Dr O. I bet Dr O is as smart as a whip with the usual Empath buffoonery thrown in. Poor women. But surely listening to you HG has weaponised her as a residual benefit of being around you? Or is she that closed off?

      1. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi renarde…i do own 1 chi baby 🙂
        No i think dr e has HG pegged! He knew why HG preferred discussing with dr o the topic at hand. Furthermore he triggered fury in HG bc he knew his weaker areas and insecurities pertaining to lack of control in life which is a huge threat to a narcissist.

  23. NJFilly says:

    I completely relate to the girlfriend in the article in a high position who wanted to relinquish control of herself, if only for a couple hours. This is my predicament. I am always in charge; always in complete control; always strong, assertive, aggressive and dominant, and I long for a man strong enough to overpower me. I believe no such man exists. It is the reason, despite being a beautiful feminine woman with many prospective boyfriends; and having had many offers of marriage, (I declined them all) that I remain unattached. So I am alone and comfortable this way, but still I search for a strong, powerful man to dominate me. I am difficult to control and dominate despite the fact that I want this. I want to be put over a man’s knee and spanked, but I will not willingly do this. He would have to overpower me and force it upon me; and be strong enough and smart enough to do it. I am intense, extreme, and passionate in whatever I do. I have my own self defense mechanisms, and it is not narcissism. I will not detail it here. I feel all emotions, including love and empathy, to the fullest, possibly expanded degree. Mr. HG Tudor is brilliant, insightful, and all knowing. Perhaps he already knows what it is. I feel a sense of release and relief just having admitted to this here.

    1. NJFilly. I agree with a lot of what you say, but modern society has broken many men. Well, I live in NYC and this city breaks men after around 37 years old or so, and the men realize that they can barely keep up with the basics of food, clothing and shelter, and therefore need a woman more as financial business partner instead of joyous intimate mate to enjoy life. And many women do not dream of one day being a financial enabler and stabilizer for a man. So there is a lot of animosity between men and women where I live. Maybe I am looking at an extreme occurrence, because of where I live, as well. I probably should move, but that is an entirely different subject, I think… Many men hide behind skirt now, as well. Saying women asked for power and now they have it and now women should just shut up about any other needs they may have. It is all so tiring. And many men have just gone the other way, as they call it. I think it is good to not saddle a man into a marriage that is not what you are looking for. And many men settle for women that will help pay the bills instead of women they really desire and but can not obtain. Fortunately women do have more of a choice to not settle or saddle, at least in the United States where I live. Many women do not have that choice. Man have joined this group.

      1. empath007 says:

        I don’t know… I think sex is so personal and so specific to the individual that the most important thing it takes between two people is: trust.

        You may think you want a man to totally dominate you but if they start controlling and dismissing your objections in the bedroom right away that is abuse. OR if they do what HG does and use it as a conditioning method to assert control..: that is also abuse. No one wants to be abused in the bedroom or anywhere else.

        NJJilly you say you want the man to just figure it out? I think that may be unrealistic… you need to express your desires to them. Otherwise how will they ever please you in the way you want? And perhaps in theory you want these things… but if you haven’t experienced them in real life yet… you don’t really know how you’d react.

        So it comes down to trust. Someone you can openly communicate with. And trust they will stop when you say stop etc.

        1. 007. By control, I do not mean abuse at all or some form of total domination that needs a `safe` word and all of that, so I am not destroyed in some way, and all that the way I hear people are participating in, all of that. I just want to throw this statement in to clarify myself in case the word `control` is now politically incorrect to use and it has negative connotations. I really can not keep up with all the reclassification of words and their connotations these days. To be clear, and generally speaking, the word Control, as I understand the word, has positive connotations, and out of control has negative connotations. If you were addressing me, in your first paragraph, I hope I cleared up what I meant. I never thought that intimate relations were supposed to be so difficult in the first place. It is possible that the easy use of birth control has also led to a lot of the complexity, when before, people were just overall thankful to be able to participate in the action. Who knows. People complicate their lives in so many waves.

        2. njfilly says:

          Yes, sex is personal and specific. To have sex used as a conditioning method outside the bedroom and as a method of control sounds desirable to me. To have a man so strong and so in control of me is my ultimate fantasy. I have some limited experience in this area, but I can’t always allow my mind to submit in the ways necessary for it.

          I did not say that I ‘want the man to just figure it out’. Although it could be a grey area, you can’t really do that when it comes to true control and domination. If I have to tell a man that I want to be dominated then I have already asserted my dominance by telling him what to do. You either have a dominant nature, or you don’t. Although a certain amount of trust should be involved, and I assume we all want our sexual prowess to be admired to a point, and it’s nice to have a sexual partner who is concerned with your pleasure; if you are seeking my approval and/or looking for me to set the tone and pace of our sexual interaction; then I am the dominant one immediately.

          I have had many sexual partners in my life and I experience this often. I usually end up taking the lead; because I can, but mostly because I have more confidence, I feel it is necessary, and I am very experienced. Often men ask me to tie them up and have my way with them. When this happens it literally disgusts me and I instantly loose all respect for the man. It’s not necessary for me to tie them up and have my way with them; they are already mentally tied, I can have my way and I do. But I don’t want this. When a man asks this of me it is such a turn off to me. I never have but I might actually tie the man up, and as I stated in my comment above, I would then leave him there. Or I would take my long beautiful hair, that is thick like a rope, and strangle him with it. (I apparently have another fantasy which involves strangling weak men. I will save that comment for another time).

          I very much enjoy sex; both as an activity and a topic of discussion.

          I apologize to Mr. HG Tudor if my comment was in some way inappropriate, or too long. Mr. HG Tudor you are so special and so unique. You are one of a kind.

          1. Presque Vu says:

            Relate! To the feelings you described of mastery.


      2. njfilly says:

        I don’t look to men for a ‘joyous intimate mate to enjoy life’. I would never financially enable a man. If he were to accept this; he would not be a man. But yes, an equal partnership with a man is my ideal situation. A man who is at least as smart and strong as me, if not more. They don’t exist.

        Men are no longer men. I sometimes despise weakness in people but particularly in men. Women have always had a certain amount of power; through the use of sex and otherwise. Men who claim that women have gotten what they asked for are making excuses for their own perceived inferiority and are useless.

        I stopped watching TV and movies about 20 years ago, for various reasons. Although I believe I might be interested in the movie 50 Shades of Grey; I have some personal reasons for not having seen it yet. The only show I will watch is Vikings. My favorite character used to be Ragnar, but now he’s dead. He was replaced in my mind by Bjorn. I love his intensity and I notice he rarely smiles. I am very in touch with my anger and I am not afraid of my own anger or other people’s anger. In fact, I find an angry exchange to be challenging and exhilarating. I also love any character with a tattoo across his face and/or neck. Yeah man. That does it for me.

        I have to laugh at your use of the term ‘saddled’ with regard to men, as possibly obviously, I am involved with horses. Although I am sure this is a sexual fetish between people I have never been involved in it. If a man were to allow me to physically saddle him I might do so. But then I would beat him and strangle him with the reins and leave him for dead.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yet surely as a filly and not a mare you’d lack the guile and strength to do so!

          1. Abe Moline says:

            Interesting reply, HG.

            I also met a woman once who said she is strong, impulsive, dominant, that she’ll never marry again.

            She even asked me “do you think you would be able to handle me?”

            Waiting for the results here…

          2. njfilly says:

            I am a mare. It’s a misnomer.

            You are a majestic stallion.

          3. Bibi says:

            Also, HG, what you need to remember is that Some Prefer Nettles by Jun’ichirō Tanizaki.

          4. Dearest HG: The book ,Some Prefer Nettles ,discusses a couple that hate each other and they have a son and they are discussing divorce, and their son watches. The book review says the book is heavy handed on old tradition and encroaching modern culture on Japan, including a lot about puppet theatre, and not done well as a mechanism, and she does not recommend because this book because it is overly heavy handed and dull. Review attached: https://youtu.be/on8hevlDnVo

          5. Lorelei says:

            Can someone please tell me what this nettles talk refers to exactly? How does this work? Why?

          6. Twilight says:


            Nettles can be used for many purposes from tea to the stinging sensation one feels when it touches your skin….hmmm reminds me of a video I saw when someone put them in the dryer with another cloths in dried them and the person put them on…..

          7. Lorelei says:

            Twilight—is it permissible to wash and dry a shirt (gift) for the children’s father in nettles?

          8. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Hahaha how Machiavellian, I love it, Lorelei.

          9. Lorelei says:

            I’m blame shifting it onto Twilight.

          10. Twilight says:


            That made me laugh. Let me teach you the ways….

          11. Lorelei says:

            I need to be more aggressive in general—I’m a total pushover. (Not always—I can turn it on) The problem is a lack of consistency with setting firm boundaries and not accepting bullshit. This has become about much more than a “bad marriage.” HG needs to teach me to tell people to F off and not care.

          12. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Me too it’s funny but WordPress is making me mad today.

          13. Twilight says:


            Ha ha don’t get caught and only dry!

          14. Bibi says:

            Contrary to that reviewer, Nettles is actually one of his best novels. I have read all of his novels and this had the richest characterization and use of language. It has been years since I read it but I have recommended it to many and no one came back claiming it was heavy handed and dull. Read it for yourself.

          15. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Lorelei: Broadly speaking: HG was saying he used nettles in intimacy in this post: I have heard of Nettle tea, very nourishing and often called stinging nettle, because the natural plant will sting one when handled, and I have read that Nettles are good to stimulate hair growth. I have not used nettles in any manner. Bibi mentioned a book with the Title: Everyone Prepares Nettles. I looked up what that title means, and it is from a Japanese Proverb: [“Every worm to his taste; some prefer to eat nettles.”] Lorelei, that proverb means everyone has their own taste, I read. And the book Bibi mentioned, broadly speaking, discusses the hatred of a couple for each other, as well the hate and love for old Japan and New Japan, and some have the taste for the old and some prefer the new, in the novel. In short, HG brought up Nettles and the word starting running around on this page.

          16. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Lorelei: Correction: Book name: [ *Some Prefer Nettles* ] …Japanese Proverb: [“Every worm to his taste; some prefer to eat nettles.”] Lorelei, that proverb means everyone has their own taste, I read.

        2. NJFilly: I am completely overjoyed that the male gender exists. And I am thrilled with the fact that we can become intimate with them. And have fun with them, as well. I could not imagine life otherwise, at all. And I am not looking for more than just one of them. As far as the word, saddle, is concerned, that is funny. I didn’t mean it in YOUR sense as it pertains to horses, hahaha. I meant as burdening someone: “Saddle someone with something – Idioms by The Free Dictionary
          To force one to deal with someone or something that proves to be a great burden.` NJFilly, Not ride him like he is a horse and then strangle him and leave him for dead, as you are saying. hahaha. In fact, men rarely misunderstand what I mean when I converse with them as well. Women often go up in flames when something is misunderstood, in my experiences. My goodness!

          1. njfilly says:

            I would not want to live in a world without men. I love men too. I have many male friends and acquaintances, and living on a farm and working around horses brings me in contact with a lot of men. I love their masculine energy and I love interacting with them.

            I understood what you meant. I was just making a joke. Perhaps I need to ‘rein’ in my intensity.

            You have a very positive, friendly energy. I like that and I appreciate that.

        3. NJFilly: No problem. Nothing you need to `whinny` about.

  24. SL MCD says:

    Ok “BRILLIANT” with the control accuracy.
    Here is the next step:


    Explore and augment the new dimensions within levels of human “AWARENESS” you have based your entire passion in with this concept.

    I am your opposite charge in electricity in terms of AC/DC. North Pole to South Pole.

    This is going to be very challenging “too” day the least, to put it mildly. (that is not a spelling or grammatical error.)

    Stand by please I look forward to, perhaps, being controlled.

    1. Sweetest Perfection says:

      SL MCD, AC/DC as in Highway to Hell for sure. Are you selling viagra online? I don’t think HG is interested.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Ha ha.

    2. Getting There says:

      Sometimes taking orders to stand by to take control? I need to try this on one of my narcissists.

  25. fiona says:

    Even if you figure out the sex key code and get your victim addicted that does not compare to an encounter of love. With your techniques you produce, on both sides of the dyad, a creature longing for more for it will never be (deeply) satisfied. I see how this is to your advantage. But sex combined with a real and deep connection will satiate your partner’s heart and soul as well as yours and still get them “addicted”. I understand that you think you are not capable of that – that is loving – and it is indeed hard when you’ve never learned to trust. But then again, aren’t you capable of everything? If you want to be real elite you should learn to tap into those feelings hidden from you at any time you do or do not desire, with or without a fuel source around, only then will you be omnipotent. It would make you more autonomous and more powerful. Maybe in the end you’d even get something your mom never gave you.

  26. MB says:

    Yes! This: “I work out a person’s sexual key code and deliver heaven. They find that addictive and want it so much. I find the power attached to this ability addictive. When you go to bed with me you are getting the best. Nobody afterwards will come close to what I give you.”

    I wouldn’t have understood it or believed it could be done without even being physically proximate except it happened to me. Repeatedly, to my delight and his. My fear is I’ll never have that heaven again. In fact, I know I never will. I’m still thankful that I’ve experienced it. Now I can die happy!

    1. Lorelei says:

      MB—I don’t know what it’s remotely like to be involved with a normal and have a “safe pleasant connection” that would outweigh losing good sex. (Just being frank) Is the day to day so fulfilling that missing this key element is worth it? It creates a lack of harmony for you to quite an extent. I will say that I have had the full range—mediocre to excellent. At this point in life I won’t do a relationship with mediocrity (sex) but only because I’m not already tied down financially or will have kids with anyone etc. (I understand you have a multi-faceted situation) I wonder how this moral dilemma adds to keeping you displeased. I do not come with an opinion, just curious. I’m not even engaging with anyone in that way so I’m on my own path. In fact I was in a bar and I know I’m making progress because on the way to the bathroom that feeling of eyes on me was uncomfortable instead of welcomed. My views and possibilities are shifting. I was acutely aware of the unhealthy behavior associated with being looked at like food. It’s not enticing, it’s repulsive to me. Now if HG can eventually help me navigate what connecting with normal is like or where to begin! May never happen but if there’s no good sex—there will be no point.

      1. MB says:

        Lorelei, Having a steady, calm, predictable home life is a valuable asset to have. No anxiety. No wondering what mood he will be in. I have personal and financial freedom. He doesn’t tell me what to do, what to wear, who I can see, no controlling me whatsoever. What is that worth? I’ve never lived with a narc so I can’t answer that question. I can give up porn star sex for stability and support and somebody that loves me to go through life with. There IS sex, just not the chandelier-swinging, mind-blowing kind. Not a deal breaker. Narc sex would end completely at some point after becoming degrading. (Something I don’t have to worry about.) I’ve learned enough here to know it won’t last. I’d give up sex completely before I’d go through life being abused. No way could I live that way after having experienced my marriage.

        1. Lorelei says:

          Good perspective. I think I really have an almost reaction formation re, relationships. I don’t need the money or companionship. (I have plenty of both.)
          I just can’t fathom one ounce of compromising myself again.

          1. MB says:

            Lorelei, I think any relationship with another human is give and take regardless of whether it is intimate or not. Compromising yourself by allowing any mistreatment? Absolutely NOT ok. My relationship has taught me that life is easier and more rewarding with a partner to bear half the load and to celebrate accomplishments. That may not be the case with all people and even I’ve been conflicted and contradictory at times. But at the end of the day, I know this man will be there for me. Day or night. There isn’t another soul on this planet that I can say that about. Not one.

          2. Lorelei says:

            Understood. I feel like my best friend from
            my undergrad and my brothers would be my “go to” if I needed anything. I’m just so thoroughly fed up and disgusted I won’t compromise one thing. I went out for a drink with a close friend and her boyfriend a few nights ago. She is absolutely in love with and moving hours away to be near this man. He couldn’t even carry on a conversation! I thought “F this!” I won’t compromise out of loneliness ever because I’m not lonely, I like being alone, and I have given too much time and lost too much already.

          3. MB says:

            Lorelei, you go girl!

          4. Lorelei says:

            MB—just a thought and please don’t take offense as is not my intention. The not being able to express yourself without condemnation like at a show.. (I just read it somewhere) I know you don’t describe the overall scenario as anything but acceptable—but this is an infringement on your liberty. You DO NOT have to accept it. Just because 9/10 things are acceptable doesn’t mean we operate under acceptable ratios. I would encourage addressing things you’ve grown accustomed to—I can honestly say it would be a one time deal breaker for me. I’d walk out. It’s illustrated in HG’s Manipulation book. Just because he isn’t a narcissist doesn’t mean you have to accept bad with good without a voice.

          5. MB says:

            Lorelei, I wrote about this somewhere else although I don’t remember where. Me feeling judged and belittled is a manifestation of my own shame. I always find a way to feel bad or small. If somebody has a different opinion about how I should behave, my default setting is to retreat in shame. Sad, but true. I’ve been doing better, but still a very long way to go. My husband doesn’t do it intentionally. A narc would mop up the floor with me!

          6. Lorelei says:

            Well.. I would not recommend being a mop to a narcissist! All I’m saying is.. If he were supportive of your forms of self expression you may not retreat into shame. With an empathic capability he’s also capable of listening to examples of where you walked away feeling less than. You and I both have some “gripping up to do.” If you stay silent and modify your own propensity to cut loose it is your choice, but not a fun one to live with. I am hugely triggered by this yes—I hate that word by the way because it sounds like whack job BPD stuff but I am. I experienced it so much (different but the same) from my children’s father that it kills me when I hear it. (So yes I’m naturally projecting but I think my message is valid.)
            At this point if I ever got one glance of condemnation I’d ghost someone. It’s that damaging for me. I remember the first time it happened. Maybe four months into it—I bought chocolate from Godiva. My favorite. I was totally diving in and he made a comment and had a look of disapproval. I thought he was joking at first and it became apparent that it wasn’t a joke. I’ll never forget it. I was in perfect physical condition MB. It wasn’t going to make my pants not fit. He used various forms of this tactic repeatedly over the years. It slaughtered me emotionally.

          7. MB says:

            Lorelei, thank you so much for your concern. No worries though. My husband is absolutely not a controlling salami slicing abuser. He’s just what I call a stick in the mud. A fuddy-duddy

          8. MB says:

            Sorry Lorelei, reply button went off prematurely! Anyway, I go and do things that he isn’t interested in or with other people that are. Or alone if I want to. I went to a TSwift concert alone and had a wonderful time. He doesn’t want to go on a cruise and I do, so I’m going next month with some other folks that also want to go. I don’t let him hold me back and he doesn’t want to hold me back. He’s glad for me to go have fun and he will be delighted to see me when I return. We do a lot together, but there are things he does without me and me without him. He’s not a narc. No need to be triggered for me sweetie.

          9. Lorelei says:

            HG—which one of the 25 in Manipulated is this example associated with—the chocolate one I just gave MB? I want to re-read this.

          10. HG Tudor says:

            You need to restate Lorelei as I do not see the previous comment in the moderation pane.

          11. Lorelei says:

            I’ll just ask tomorrow—too much to type and on the run.

          12. HG Tudor says:

            Jolly good.

          13. MB says:

            I copied and pasted Lorelei’s question for her-you. Did you see it?

          14. HG Tudor says:

            Yes, it is in moderation, thank you for doing so.

          15. MB says:

            Lorelei, I copied and pasted it for you. Hopefully, HG will find it before you go to the trouble. It was easy as I’m using my desktop some today.

          16. Lorelei says:

            Thanks—I’m racing around on and off here while attending to tasks.

          17. MB says:

            HG – Lorelei’s comment: “I remember the first time it happened. Maybe four months into it—I bought chocolate from Godiva. My favorite. I was totally diving in and he made a comment and had a look of disapproval. I thought he was joking at first and it became apparent that it wasn’t a joke. I’ll never forget it. I was in perfect physical condition MB. It wasn’t going to make my pants not fit. He used various forms of this tactic repeatedly over the years. It slaughtered me emotionally.”

            She wants to know which of the 25 manipulations in ‘Manipulated’ this is.

          18. HG Tudor says:

            It is the “Should You Really?” Manipulations which is a cousin of Guilt. SYR appears in Manipulated 2 along with Barbed Banter, Fake Contrition, The Battering Ram and others.

          19. MB says:

            Manipulated 2?

          20. HG Tudor says:

            Yes, comes after 1, but before 3.

          21. Lorelei says:

            MB—it’s a cousin of inducing guilt and a manifestation of exerting control by diminishing my engagement in something I enjoy. He would then gain fuel by my irritation so a win/win for him. Did I articulate this properly HG? It’s early!

          22. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed. It is “Should You Really?” I expand on this in Manipulated 2.

          23. Lorelei says:

            Where is manipulated 2?

          24. HG Tudor says:

            Being written.

          25. Lorelei says:

            Can’t you churn that out in a few days? Haha

          26. HG Tudor says:

            Churn? I am a skilled artists, not some farmhand!

          27. MB says:


          28. MB says:

            That’s why my question was Manipulated 2 😊
            Looking forward to it. HG has enough to keep me busy looking ahead for a very long time!

          29. WokeAF says:

            Manipulated 2 ?! Have I missed this one? I don’t recall seeing it

          30. Lorelei says:

            He’s writing it. Have a good day Woke!

          31. WokeAF says:


          32. WokeAF says:

            Already know what barbed banter is. Just the name I know it. Good name.

    2. empath007 says:

      Haha ! I related to you so much MB. Having an unsatisfying sex life is difficult. Like I’ve said In previous posts… I’ve been there.

      I read somewhere once it can take up to 18 months for the hormones in our bodies to get back to normal levels after a heightened sexual experince with a narc.

      I started going to the gym to deal with it… it’s been helpful and gets easier every month to move on as the memories and intensity of the feelings are starting to fade. It feels exciting to start to forget what it felt like… you’ll get there. When that point comes perhaps things will feel more back to normal, or even more exciting with your husband 🙂

      It could be you just need that time because you’re staying in your long term relationship you won’t have that heightened experience with someone new… even if they are a normal… so the feelings you feel over the pleasure of “newness” with the narc will take more time to fade.

      Hang in there !

      1. MB says:

        Empath007, 18 months, eh? I didn’t realize the goal was to forget. I had it all wrong! I’m trying to hold on to it because I don’t think I’ll ever feel it again. Actually, what I need to be doing is letting it fade so that my “normal” sexual experience will feel more exciting. Thank you for that. I hadn’t thought of it that way.

        One more reason to talk myself into going to the gym. Now, if somebody could tell me how to love exercise, I’d be forever in their debt!

        1. empath007 says:

          Haha ! exercise releases the same feel good endorphins that sex does 😉

          No. Don’t hang on to it… it wasn’t real to begin with. In time it will naturually be forgotten. I will admit it’s taking me a lot of time, but I know I will get there! Haha.

          1. MB says:

            Empath007, I think that’s my problem. I don’t experience an exercise high. Is it possible that some unfortunate people don’t? I want to get addicted to exercise! Instead, I’m addicted to pizza 😩

          2. empath007 says:

            Well if not the gym something else that you love that makes you feel alive 🙂 a live concert? A trip?

            I’m finding in my journey I need to connect to myself again. The narc was filling a void.

          3. MB says:

            Empath007, it’s true. I have a void. I’ve had it my entire life as far back as I can remember. I’ve always looked for “something more”

          4. NarcAngel says:

            I’ve never experienced an exercise high either. It must be right before you pass out and I can’t risk it. Exercise is to be despised but necessary – right up there with waxing and getting your roots done.

          5. MB says:

            NA, my seester! I don’t think everybody does get the “runner’s high”. Got it…”despised but necessary”

          6. Lorelei says:

            NA—I’d highly recommend the pursuit. It is way up there. The way (for me) that it works is to set a goal and the incremental progress allows for occasional highs. For instance, I have a very lofty goal in mind. (Very)
            If I can pull it off I’ll be stoked for months. It’s not about physical attractiveness but about physical capability. You work and sweat your ass off and the high hits. I have poor upper body strength and my endurance is best described as me being fussy by my trainer. My mind set is improving though and this correlates with two specific goals. I got the all clear to run again so we shall see because I am in the middle of rehab for a knee issue. I was essentially incapacitated while living with my ex and for some months following. I have had a lot of work to do and don’t want to diminish the brand of progress made already but I think I’m ready to really kick the shit out of some goals now. Best high I ever got was after an awful backpacking trip years ago. It was brutal and just pulling it off was really a wow for me.

          7. MB says:

            Maybe I’m selfish, but I prefer having separate orgasms. When you have them together, it takes away from the experience. If I’m caught up in my own, I can’t enjoy his and vice versa. I never saw the point of aiming for simultaneous. Of course, I’m not the sexpert either!

          8. Sweetest Perfection says:

            But you can have both, separate and together, during the same session. I definitely need to have a bunch before the other person finishes. MB, I believe you like what you like, nothing is better or worse, having an orgasm simultaneously is fun if you feel like it at the moment but it’s not my main goal when I’m having sex. My main goal is to wake up the neighbors! Haha.

          9. MB says:

            SP, I feel lucky to have one. I agree with HG. “Show off” Ha ha. Nah, I’m just kidding, it’s wonderful that you have such a prolific sex life. I must admit I’m envious. My husband would be mortified if the kids heard us, much less the neighbors! He’s not a wild one, that man.

          10. Sweetest Perfection says:

            MB, I’m probably going a little bit far and this obviously is not a blog on sex education, but I suggest you play a little bit with yourself if you don’t already do so because that’s how I found out I can have as many orgasms as I am willing to as long as I want to keep going. Sometimes it gets just tiring. I believe all women are capable of this, but it’s hard to know during intercourse because of course you are also focused on the other person. Plus you are an Empath, I’m sure you are more sensitive to stimulation than a normal woman. I am sorry if I gave unsolicited advice or if you found this offensive, that was not my intention at all. I want everyone to be multi-orgasmic.

          11. NarcAngel says:

            Focused on the other person? Face to face? I’m starting to see the issue lol

          12. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Hahaha NA! I wouldn’t focus on the other person that much if I knew I was with a narc. With an Empath I do want to focus on the other person too.

          13. MB says:

            SP, not a blog about sex? You saw the title of the article, right? Not to mention our moderator literally wrote the book, ‘Sex’! Thank you for your advice and I’m not offended at all. This place is like having a bunch of girlfriends and sisters on call at all times. Nobody ever talked to me about orgasms or masturbation or anything other than the mechanics of “reproduction”. There was never talk of sex meant to be an enjoyable, life enhancing activity. A woman enjoying sex meant she was a whore. I was married two years before I ever had one and that was, you guessed it, a solo session for research purposes to be sure I wasn’t broken. Even HG wrote that he could climax more intensely doing it himself. There must be something to this being your own best sex partner stuff. After all, if you can’t please yourself, how could you expect anybody else to? This homework is going to be more fun that BLL!

          14. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Haha MB, I said the blog is not about sex… education. We talk about sex here every single day! Yes, I agree it’s like talking to friends and it’s fun and there’s no shame, which helps a lot. I hope you find the homework pleasurable and enlightening! Btw, I just discovered recently that my synesthesia happens with orgasms too. I thought I was having glaucoma and then found out it’s pretty common to experience flashes of light during climax!

          15. MB says:

            SP, education is what narcsite is all about! (As long as there’s no baking or cooking) The flashes of light has happened to me with kissing and with orgasm too. That’s what I thought people meant by fireworks 😊

          16. MB says:

            Nice! Is this new? Are you saying we should take our sex talk over there, HG?

          17. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha, no.

          18. MB says:

            But it’s new? Will you answer the questions in Spanish? Don’t you already have enough to do Mr. Tudor!

          19. HG Tudor says:

            It’s Italian.

          20. MB says:

            Why HG? Why?

          21. MB says:

            I really do have an uncanny ability to make a fool of myself!

          22. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Ooooh bravissimo, HG! Chi è il traduttore?

          23. HG Tudor says:

            Someone who is fluent in English and Italian.

          24. cb says:

            No way! 😀

          25. Sweetest Perfection says:

            This is what happens for making rhetorical questions… I knew better…

          26. Abe Moline says:


            “There must be something to this being your own best sex partner stuff”

            I think in most cases this is not quite true, not even for men. Maybe even less so for women.
            You can actually combine both – doing it with your partner and yourself at the same time (and much easier for women to do that).

          27. MB says:

            Abe, believe me, I know all about it 😐 If I don’t, who will?

          28. Abe Moline says:


            I thought you said you’ve experienced some advanced and never known before stuff with your narc, even if it was only remote. So, here’s your answer… (and it does not need to be a narcissist).

            There is of course also the logical point that, if this were true, then we’d always be perfectly happy with doing it ourselves, nobody would need or search for a sexual partner anymore.

            There’s nothing wrong going solo, not saying that. But maybe try keeping the other in the loop too, sometimes, somehow (after, before, sexting, while together, mutual…).

          29. MB says:

            Abe, yes there was some never known before stuff with Narc. Erotic indeed. Stuff I’ve never even thought of. But never anything actual. It was all just talk.

          30. MB says:

            Abe, I’m appreciating the male perspective in our sex talk. You’re a cool guy. Welcome to the slumber party. See? girl talk is fun!

          31. HG Tudor says:

            Slumber party? Are you 12 years old?

          32. MB says:

            Big girls have slumber parties too! Lots of drinking, eating junk food, and girl talk. I can see Abe right there with us. Not so much you HG. We’d get in trouble if you were there!

          33. HG Tudor says:

            So Abe has just been called a Big Girl. Over to you Abe!

          34. MB says:

            Ha ha, HG! I didn’t say that Abe!

          35. Abe Moline says:

            Yeah, see? This is the problem with women today actually… You try to be nice, funny, helpful, give them some advice (sex-related or not), and next thing you know – Bham! – you get invited to the Big Girl Slumber Party… WTF??
            The party where they’ll cry on your shoulder – why can’t I find a nice loving empath guy who will give me that mystic sexual experience of my life?

            This is disgusting…

            I’m in! 😀

          36. MB says:

            Abe, you’re such a good sport. Ok, it’s official then, Big Girl After Party Slumber Party is in MBs room at Narcsite convention! No guys allowed. (Except Abe)

          37. HG Tudor says:

            No boundaries are recognised. I am access all areas.

          38. MB says:

            Ha ha HG, I’d never intentionally exclude the life of the party! Turn it up to 11! I just thought you didn’t want to be a Big Girl. Anybody for spin the bottle?

          39. Lorelei says:

            Can I have dry clothes for the sleepover? I just ran shoeless through city streets and up hills.

          40. MB says:

            I hope you enjoyed the concert Lorelei!

          41. Lorelei says:

            Phenomenal absolutely.

          42. foolme1time says:

            If we don’t see you for awhile we will all know why that is! 😉

          43. foolme1time says:

            Maybe you and hubby should go to dinner, visit a toy store, and stay in a hotel or cottage somewhere for the night or perhaps two nights? Stop at the liquor store, and rent some porn to watch together. That should get things moving in a different direction! In fact skip dinner and head straight for the toy store! 😉

          44. MB says:

            FM1T, we’ve had the toy store discussion on here. I’d rather stab my eyes out with hot needles than go. I’d be too embarrassed to watch porn with him, plus it’s pretty cheesy isn’t it? I’m sick to my stomach all of a sudden! 🤢

          45. FoolMe1Time says:

            Girl you’re gonna have to give a little bit here! Lol. The toy store is fun! I went in there so often when I was with my ex narc, that the people working there knew me by my first name. Lol, They would also hold back anything new that came in that they thought I might be interested in.
            As for the porn. You really aren’t watching it for the story line MB, actually you don’t have to watch it at all! Just make sure the sound is loud enough! That’s enough now, this talk is going to ruin my childlike reputation! Hahaha

          46. MB says:

            FM1T, I’d have no trouble with any of it with Narc. He was so open about sex and not judge mental at all. My hubs would be mortified and completely embarrassed and I’d feel like a fool in there with him. You’d just have to know him. I can’t even stand up and scream and dance at a concert with him. I get the “look” that says “you’re embarrassing yourself and therefore me.” And I sit down and behave. As I said before, he is where fun goes to die. I was relaxed with N. No rules. No judgement. Calm vibes. My husband, bless his heart has a stick up his ass. I make him sound awful and he absolutely is not. He’s a wonderful man but is better suited for a 60-70 year old woman. He doesn’t know me. Y’all know me better than he does. That’s my fault, and I own it.

          47. FoolMe1Time says:

            It’s not your fault. But I do have a question for you if you don’t mind answering it? What would he do if you didn’t sit down when he gave you that look? What would he do if you said, I’m not sitting down I’m having fun, you should try it sometime? I myself cannot give any advice on relationships ever, I totally suck at anything that has to do with having a normal functioning relationship! But it sounds like you should really sit down and talk to him about how you feel. Maybe it’s time for him to know the real you? This I do know, your narc, he had rules and if you would have stayed with him you would have learned those rules, you would have been judged for every little thing you did. The calm that he made you feel would turn into fear and anxiety and you would have been walking on eggshells around him. You would not be able to relax for fear of constantly doing something wrong, and trust me they always find something wrong with what ever you do. MB I wish I knew the answers to help you with all of this and I’m truly sorry for your pain and frustration.

          48. MB says:

            FM1T, you’re such a sweetheart. He isn’t controlling me with the look and most likely I am projecting my own shame. Remember that I live in the belief that I am bad. Anything that reinforces that, whether actual or perceived makes me feel lower than whale shit. It’s who I am. I’ve gotten better over the years, but bottom line, if I feel judged, I’m the bad one. Every. Time. They are right. I am wrong. It’s in my DNA. Many of my “problems” are completely self inflicted. I picked the WORST defense mechanism of all time.

          49. empath007 says:

            MB… just… yikes.

            I get he’s not the devil.

            The normal
            I was with easy very uptight as well. Same stories with the concerts and all that. Except he liked that I was more outgoing. He also was into going to the sex shop and we bought games etc. Which were very very helpful.

            I think in your case, sex shop is a giant leap. Take baby steps… when’s the last time you dressed up lovely for him? When’s the last time you thanked him for all he does for you? When’s the last time you told him he looked handsome?

            Start to change some of the language.
            You may be pleasantly surprised what a fun Date night could bring. Focus on intimacy first…
            Not the sex.

            You’re choosing To stay. And you can absolutely improve the situation.

          50. MB says:

            Empath007, thank you for your words of wisdom. Anybody that’s followed my comments in this thread can see that I have conflicting thoughts around my marriage. It’s good. It’s stifling. He’s awesome. He’s boring. He knows me better than anybody does, yet he doesn’t know me at all. You are absolutely correct. I CHOOSE to stay. I make that choice everyday. You are very wise to pick up on the fact that it’s the intimacy, the emotional connection that is missing, not the sex. There is love, there is stability and support. The foundation is strong and we can build on that.

          51. empath007 says:

            Conflicting feelings are normal. There is always a sense of “did I miss something out there?” When you’ve only (primarily) has one partner. Everyone wants to think “oh what a beautiful thing 30 years”
            But that can occasionally feel so restrictive for those involved if they haven’t experinced other people.

            The grass is not greener on the other side. It’s either fertilized with bullshit (in the case of the narc) or it’s greener where you water it (your marriage) many people would be jealous of the situation your in.

            But yes. You are immensely lacking initimcay and that’s not fixed over night. Not when you two have been in the same routine for so long. Start with something simple…. a conversation. A compliment. Maybe find out what it is you think he’s lacking first ( perhaps he would like thoughtful gifts more often, a nice dinner made for him etc) obv I don’t know what those things are, that’s just ideas.

            I say that not so you ignore yourself…
            But to see if he responds positively to it.

            Also. One thing that’s helped me in the past is to choose to be happy where I’ve chosen to stay. That’s not to say you can’t be genuine and vent about the situation…. that’s all part of it… but IRL, try it and see if it help.

            Sorry if I seem intrusive 😂 not my intent. I just enjoy these kinds of conversations.

          52. MB says:

            Empath007, don’t ever worry about being intrusive or offensive with me. I appreciate you having this conversation with me. These are not things I can discuss with anybody in my life. I think the main thing I need to change is my mind. I doubt I’ll ever be that woman that vents or discusses my feelings about the relationship. Work, kids, whatever, yes. My needs and wants, not so much. I’m a negative emotion stuffer. If they ever make their way to the surface, it won’t be pretty!

          53. empath007 says:

            That’s true! I enjoy watching my partner have pleasure. It’s a huge turn on. Problem is after mine I often feel like napping🤣 they take a lot out of me so together is OK too.

          54. MB says:

            Empath007, agreed! The O takes it out of you. SPs talk of the multi-Os makes me tired, but sounds O so good. The naps after are the best! All that spooning and cuddling and bonding. Close your ears NA!

          55. foolme1time says:

            Empath you are so right and I had almost forgotten it wasn’t real. None of it was real! Thank you Empath007.

          56. empath007 says:

            I have to remind myself of this often as well.

          57. strongerwendyme says:

            Sex has the same endorphins and dopamine as exercise but with the addition of oxytocin (“the ultimate feel-good love chemical”). So exercise and have sex directly afterwards? 😉

          58. NarcAngel says:

            Let’s err on the side of caution and engage in sex INSTEAD of exercise.

          59. strongerwendyme says:


          60. empath007 says:


        2. MB: This is what I do. I buy nice workout clothing and socks and shoes, etc. that boosts my morale. I then go to the gym. Once I am in the gym, I can’t just stand there. The gym is not conducive to standing. There are all types of machines, recumbent bicycle machines, standing machines for walking and skiing and climbing, rowing machines and there are classes like zumba or boot camp and you just go in to the class when it starts, whether you know what they are doing or not. and beginners are always welcome. And there are weights and resistance machines, most of them intuitive to use, so I just reach out and use them, or secretly watch how someone else is using a machine and then use the machine after the person leaves, and I move around. I never say to myself that I love exercise or not. I just go. Once you are in the gym, you will exercise. There is no choice. Just to one day a week and build up the frequency. Bring water.

          1. MB says:

            PSE, I’ve got my Exorcise with Tudor top ✅ my support bra, my shoes and my capri yoga stretchy britches all packed in my cute little gym bag. If I go in the door, I always do workout. The problem I have is that my car doesn’t want to turn in to the parking lot! I need to take your “just go” attitude. I whine and moan about not liking it and not wanting to be there so I feel miserable and have a hard time making myself show up. Once I’m there, it’s not so bad and I’m always glad I went. Just not glad enough to keep showing up without a fight.

          2. MB says:

            Has The House of Tudor given consideration to the idea of marketing a “support” bra? Ha ha!

          3. HG Tudor says:

            You know I don’t do support, but we could call them Max Ensnarement Bras

          4. MB says:

            Awww, you’re just being humble. The entire House of Tudor is filled with support items. You’re not fooling me!

          5. MB says:

            I’m getting a visual of tendrils wrapped about my upper torso!

          6. NarcAngel says:

            Haha tendrils. I heard the minions in Tudor Tower whispering about a possible release of a Tudor Asset Management line of undergarments embroidered with The Kraken logo. Move over Spanx.

          7. Getting There says:

            MB, I hope you don’t mind me jumping in.
            I have to have music to exercise. I have literally walked out of the gym shortly after arriving when my music didn’t work. I hate working out but I like to eat too much and hate shopping for new clothes.
            I’m also a people watcher so I can be entertained by some of the personalities. Another positive is that you get to know people the more you go at least enough to say hi like associates.
            Maybe good music and an award for going 7 weeks in a row may help.

          8. MB says:

            GT, I agree, music is an absolute must! I like people watching too. 7 weeks in a row?!! Good Lord! I’ll have to start with 2 and work my way up.

          9. Getting There says:

            Correction, sorry: I like to walk but that doesn’t help with my eating habits.

        3. MB: That’s the spirit. You see, MB, I am to good for a lot of things I have to do in this life. But , I have to do these things for now, or catastrophes and emergencies and disasters will appear. So in such cases, I do not EVER, EVER, EVER ask myself questions that my emotional side would just love to answer, and respond: Yes, PSE> You are to good for that, for sure. Am I too good to do my own laundry? I would never ask myself that, because the answer is yes, of course I am. So, I just look at decorating videos on youtube and I just do it. Or outfits for the week videos while I do my laundry. Am I too good to clean my own apartment? Of course I am. So I do not ask myself. I just play loud rock and roll music and prance and just do it. (I do plan to obtain service for myself in some of these areas. But, for now, it is all upon me.) Am I too good to go workout. Definitely. So I do not ask this question, and so I just wear cool outfits and pretend I am a cool Youtube influencer, or whatever and just do it. I am so pleased by your outfit, by the way. Those t-shirts that HG provides are Tres Cool, indeed. I like it. I am not really cool, but in gym clothes I surprisingly find some of my coolness, and I can express myself more for some reason. I like various workout looks, but mainly, 1) a little bit rock and roll like your outfit, and 2) sometimes a little bit tropical. My own gym style is fun for me. I love that article that HG Tudor wrote, titled something like: I`m Too Good For That.

        4. MB: Gym day!!!!: Today I am wearing my White Under Armour Baseball-ish Cap. A red and white, small-striped T shirt. Black Workout Pants. White Socks and red Trainers with white soles, and black fingerless gloves to handle the machines and weights. (sort of nauticalish today, stylewise). I will be carrying my Red Cherry Blossom Water Bottle. I have lots of free reign at this gym on Sundays. The people are mostly those that live in the neighborhood from Manhattan (vs people that work in the area as well), few Somatics (not enough people to look at them on Sundays), and less stress in the overall environment, and the employees are extra friendly to see us clients on Sundays. The gym is only open 5 hours on Sundays. And it is 3 blocks from my apartment. I had to change from the one near work because of the Narc. dynamic there. I did not want to change, although the location was farther away, but I had to. Since the dullness is lifting a bit, I have worked up to 3 days a week since I changed to this new location, at the same time that GH took that little break from the blog. I wish I knew when that break was. But, that is when I started going back to the gym. HG said working out is better than taking pills/pharmaceuticals to feel better. Right now I go on Sundays, and Thursdays (a fun Zumba Class). And lately, Tuesdays, as well. A very pleasant lady there wants me to take the bootcamp class on Wednesdays, and I told her no promises yet, but, I will think about it. And, I thanked her for inviting me. I am slowly warming up to the gym relocation. MB: remember, do not ask your emotions should you go! Just tell yourself you are just stopping in the gym for a moment and then turn your vehicle into the parking lot, and go inside. The rest is automatic.

          1. MB says:

            PSE, you go girl! My goal is to go three times this week after work. Just cardio and then sauna. If I don’t miss tomorrow (Monday) then I can do it. And I WONT consult my emotional side. That bitch will sabotage me every time!

    3. Abe Moline says:

      “Now I can die happy!”

      MB, I think I saw a comment from you a few days ago saying you don’t want to die before experiencing this IRL. Please make up your mind, which one is it? 🙂

      (If it was not your comment, I apologize, but I’m pretty sure it was you)

      1. MB says:

        Abe, it WAS me! I do want to experience it IRL at least once before I die. (Or even just one passionate kiss with someone I’m attracted to.) But I can still die happy having had the out of body experience of the phone sex. I’m not entirely sure I’d survive the intensity of the real thing anyway. I might would quite literally die happy! 😂

  27. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

    Dearest HG: Why did you ask the Dr: [ “Are you taking the piss now doctor?” I snapped.] HG, I looked up the expression and was not sure the definition I found fit in this context of the interaction. Also the expression I read is a particularly British one. So I could be missing the cultural nuance. So, I wanted to know why you asked, what you meant, and if this Dr. did this sort of thing, take the piss, with you during therapy before. Or, did he hit on an area that you personally found disturbing and alarming. Also, do you have any idea why the Dr. was becoming flustered. I would think nothing should surprise him at this point in his field. Was he attracted to you or something like that, do you think.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      He asked a question and I answered him by rejecting his suggestion. For him to try to ask it again went against logic, therefore the only reason he could have for asking it again was because he wanted to provoke me and was thus taking the piss by doing so.
      Take for example somebody sat with ten donuts on their plate. They have plenty of donuts and that is clear. If you then said “would you like another donut” you are asking a question which is unnecessary and therefore by asking this question you could only be taking the piss/being sarcastic.

      1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

        Dearest HG: Thank you. I would say something, but I will just be quiet as a layman and I wish you success for yourself on your interactions with these people over these years. I do not know the field and I do not know what are the examples of Malpractice according to the law in that `profession.` And what Bill Of Rights as a client pertain to you, just for the record, in your locality. And, if you are allowed to obtain a copy of your session records over there. There are rules, but I know in the U.S. the entire topic of rules of engagement for clients and client rights in the mental practitioner field is kept very hush-hush, to the detriment of the clients, of course.

      2. empath007 says:

        Every Man I’ve dated has said that “why ask again when I’ve answered”

        And the answer is simple… I’m not satisfied with the answer as (from my perspective) it is the answer that is illogical.

        That happened all the time with the narc. And I find this sight. and recieve the answer that’s seems logical. Therefore I can stop asking the question.

        This wasn’t meant to argue your point about your reaction in the article. Just my own personal experince… no need to post this if you don’t want.

  28. Sweetest Perfection says:

    I was not gonna ask this although I have thought about it multiple times, so now that you bring it back: do you do that to SM? The nettle thingy. You don’t have to answer if you believe it to be a very personal detail but I think it would help us learn, for example, about your control of the desire of control during sex.

    1. MB says:

      Nice try Sweet P. Ha ha! I’ve never heard of these nettles except for the kid that HG pushed in them repeatedly. Maybe Google will just have to be my friend on this one.

      1. MB: I am reading Sex and the Narcissist and I understand that the intimacy is person specific. Also there is subtle inquisition made of the source while watching various scenes in movies and asking questions and such other methodology. It is sort of incredible. One can not say that a Narcissist is not hard working in many arenas. I feel I can sort of learn a thing or 2 from them. Does that make me a bad person? For better future happiness potential with someone. Best be prepared.

        1. MB says:

          PSE, it sure does seem that an empathic man could perfect his sexual skills to be superior to even the narcissist. There would be real intimacy as well as off the charts pleasure. I’d be interested to know the experience of anybody with an empathic sexual partner.

          I’ve read ‘Sex’ before on Kindle, but have recently ordered myself a paperback copy. I’ll be waiting a little while to read it again. I don’t need any more triggering right now!

          1. Claire says:

            To MB: regarding sex with an empathetic partner. It was a heavenly experience. I have a high sex drive and sometimes after the divorce I would indulge in ONS . I can climax with every partner but this is purely physical experience, purely lust and just body pleasure. I met that guy and every time with him was divine . I could feel with every fibre of my body. Totally losing any sense for time , surrounding, multiple Os and the last one was always when he was finishing. Always! A respect for each other preferences , monogamous ( I never ever had to ask him, it was his desire to commit) . Even though he couldn’t give me every time a second round like my ex Mid Range husband can, still – even the rough, wild sex with another empath is love making; even the inmpromptu in the car – totally different from the actor performance of Narcs. Put it this way – with a Narcs is kinda porn – excellent technique but no emotional connection. Have you noticed the fake face expressions and sounds at porn movies? With an empath you have authentic experience. It doesn’t mean vanilla sex only – not at all:)! No post coital blues like after sex with Narcs ( when the effect endorphins and oxytocin is shorter) ; long lasting happiness from the released body tension combined with positive vibes . A good sex with Narcs – winning bronze or silver on a sport event – still you feel good but you know, something could be better . A good sex with an empath – winning the gold on the competition. The feeling is different:)!

          2. MB says:

            Claire, wow! Sounds like fireworks going off all over the place. I’ve never heard of post coital blues but it makes perfect sense if there’s no bonding. I would hate to be in the room when you tell an N his performance only wins bronze or silver! Thank you for your account. I think some people might think of an empathic man as a “girlie” man. I do know however that is not the case at all. Quite the opposite actually.

            From what I’ve seen, (and empaths don’t stand out like narcs do) empaths are rare and males especially so. I work with 26 men. I’ve identified four narcs but only one empath from the lot of them.

            HG, your numbers of one in six absolutely bear out in my real life sample. What about empaths? What is your anecdotal number? If more than one in 26, I’ll have to do some more ferreting!

          3. Abe Moline says:

            Just one remark here – I think in SATN or on the blog I read something that HG wrote and I did not agree at the time – that the man and the woman, most often than not, do not have orgasm at the same time. In my experience, limited as it is, (and now there is also a confirmation for this) it is perfectly possible, and even happens almost every time.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            So you think.

          5. NarcAngel says:

            I think it possible but highly unlikely. To both reach orgasm in the same session yes, but at the same moment? Sounds like that’s more in the brain or complete performance designed to make you believe in ‘connection’.

          6. Sweetest Perfection says:

            It is possible and not difficult. It’s easier if you are facing each other but it can be done too in other positions. I know other friends who have the same experience with their partners, I don’t know why this seems like an oddity. It is not.

          7. HG Tudor says:

            If you are having to hold it in order to climax together then this is not the simultaneous I was referring to. I’m referring to where they both build and occur at the exact same time without holding on so the other ‘catches up’

          8. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I don’t need to hold it.

          9. HG Tudor says:

            Show off!

          10. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Haha I’m being totally honest!

          11. MB says:

            Abe, my experience is even more limited than yours and it has happened a handful of times, but it is not on purpose and in my case could not be planned. I understand there are women that are highly orgasmic and can almost O on command. Claire sounds like one of these lucky women. The feeling of her partner climaxing would certainly be enough to send her over the edge and simultaneous orgasms could happen nearly every time. (Hell, I’ve heard of some of these highly orgasmic women having Os waiting in line at the grocery store!) True story.

          12. Sweetest Perfection says:

            At the grocery store probably not, but in the car or in the theatre or in the opera or in the museum. It doesn’t happen frequently to me but it has happened. This is a wonderful Saturday morning conversation supported by the massive hangover I have from last night and the two hoovers I just received via LinkedIn. What an asshole…

          13. Lorelei says:

            Kroger doesn’t do this to me MB. If so I’d be there daily.

          14. MB says:

            It doesn’t do it to me either Lorelei. I’m not really sure it would be a good thing to be so sensitive. It would take away from the actual sexy time.

          15. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I agree with Abe. I control my orgasms and can make them coincide with my partner’s, it’s easy. Notice I say “them.” Many women don’t know they can have multiple orgasms easily.

          16. WhoCares says:

            “I agree with Abe. I control my orgasms and can make them coincide with my partner’s”

            I’m in the same camp as Abe and SP. I can control mine. Similar to Abe, I have also taken issue with the same point in SATN.
            In fact, I have been putting off doing my “Narc Detector” because of the sex question and that particular point – partly since I feel weird about it somehow not being usual – and because this was one of the things that my narc used against me.

          17. HG Tudor says:

            This is not the simultaneous situation I’m referring to. You’re holding it and waiting. The Narc Detector Consultation has nothing to do with the issue of simultaneous orgasm.

          18. Sweetest Perfection says:

            WhoCares, take the narc Detector! It has nothing to do with that. I just did mine and I’m waiting for the results, it’s not painful or invasive, I promise!

          19. HG Tudor says:

            HG approves.

          20. foolme1time says:

            I believe someone has been trying to tell you this very thing for awhile now SP! 😉😘

          21. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I knoooooow!!! It’s thanks to your advice about the prepaid Visa cards that I finally did it! Thanks so much 😘😘😘

          22. foolme1time says:

            You’re welcome SP. You already know what that advice is going to cost you! Hahaha 😘💞

          23. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Hahaha! Tremble, mussels of the world!!!

          24. foolme1time says:

            Hahaha! That’s right! 🌊🐬

          25. Abe Moline says:

            In my case, I’m not saying it is happening every time, but most of the times.

            This simultaneous orgasm thing might be indeed related to the women experiencing multiple orgasms. Maybe I was lucky, but at least the last 3 women in my life (including Nx) were like this. Now I no longer count Nx with full certainty, she might have faked them…

            My wife sometimes describes her experience like an orgasmic plateau. She gets there after a few climaxes and stays there in a sort of continuous orgasm state which intensifies from time to time, more so when I also finish. Other times, she just has separate orgasms, but the later ones occur easier and faster than the first ones (which of course increases the probability of “simultaneity”).

            I don’t think she has to “hold it” util I also come. My side of the experience is that seeing and feeling her getting close is enough to arouse me to the brink too, and I suppose it is very similar for her. It just builds up between the two of us.

          26. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Yes, it’s a similar experience for me. It increases and the more you have the more frequent it gets. But if you hold it, the next one can be three times stronger. I’m glad you are lucky to have had women with multiple orgasms, Abe. I find it releases the pressure on the guy to try to satisfy his partner, and of course there’s more margin to play and experiment.

          27. Lorelei says:

            Lord this place is quite erotic today. I am
            visiting my mother and we are
            laughing about my sexual
            sabbatical and self discovery of avoiding further alien encounters! Quote, (from dear mom)—“I’m so glad that shit has come and gone.”

          28. empath007 says:

            Hm. On empath007 to do list: find empath partner.

            No seriously…. where is he?!

          29. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Reg: sex with another Empath: imagine all the soul you wish you could have found in the physical interaction with your narc; you have it all i front of you. You kiss the person and feel that the person feels your kiss. Every contact is supported by feelings and you know your partner is connecting at a deeper level if this makes sense. I don’t want to sound cheesy. This is actually why it wasn’t that difficult for me to find the awkwardness when I made out with my narc, it was just a hot body but I found it robotic and empty of any emotional response.

          30. Lorelei says:

            Maybe I’ll be the controlling dominatrix next time. If I could do it without laughing! Sex seems abstract almost at this point in time.

          31. foolme1time says:

            Lorelei if you can do it without laughing you are in for a very pleasurable experience. Being the dominant gave me a sense of power I have never felt before!

          32. Lorelei says:

            Oh believe me—I would feel ridiculous.

          33. empath007 says:

            You’re married to the empath right? So jealous! Haha. My narc made me feel like he could feel the connection…enjoyed kissing and all of that. But knowing he couldn’t feel what I felt… well… that sucks for him a lot more then it does for me I suppose. I enjoyed myself but was crushed by the fact it meant nothing to him.

          34. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Yes empath007, and it is fantastic and sometimes we explode in laughter in the middle of sex because someone did something funny or got tickled. Empaths don’t fear laughing at themselves. When we finish we cuddle and talk, or take a shower together, fall sleep spooning… he always says he loves me when we finish having sex. I never feel the void of being left alone by the narc without even saying he liked it. I personally don’t want to try an affair again and even less a narc again. So mechanic and unfulfilling.

          35. empath007 says:

            Now you’re just showing off 😜 lol. But that’s great. To have that in a marriage is such a gift. Definitely don’t ever trade it for a narc. I don’t have much experience with sex. I’ve had a limited number of partners… but I found the “normal” I was with to be worse in this department. No imagination, no concern for my pleasure, just 5 minutes and done. No cuddling or talking after,
            No I love you after…. just an extremely robotic act.

            The narc could at least fake it so it was a step up 😂

            And now… to find the real deal!

          36. NarcAngel says:

            Cuddling and spooning??!!!!! Jesus, is there no end to the insanity? I need to lay down.

            Don’t get any ideas lol.

          37. Sweetest Perfection says:

            NA, I used those words thinking specifically of you as I know how cuddly you are …

          38. Lorelei says:

            I can’t handle that either NA—it makes my stomach turn.

          39. empath007 says:

            So what do you do after sex?

            Get up and take a shower?

            I never understood how someone can’t enjoy a good cuddle 🤷🏻‍♀️

          40. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Empath007, it depends on many variables: time during the day, plans, location of the sex, length… if it is a quickie before going out we don’t cuddle. If it is a long session before going to bed we talk, cuddle, laugh, take a bath … I must also say life with another Empath is not perfect. Do you remember that thread we are not allow to name anymore? Our arguments are more or less like that.

          41. empath007 says:

            Oh no I get the variables thing I was in a long term relationship. He actually did get up very quickly every single time even though I had many conversations with him about it. But in the mornings etc obviously there’s not always time to cuddle. Even myself will just get up and go depedning. But I just have a hard time understandning why someone wouldn’t like it all. Lol. Ever.

            I don’t remember the thread but can’t imagine any long term relationship that there wouldn’t be arguing. As long as it doesn’t become the norm (like it does with a narc- at least it does for me due to the behaviours) I think it’s healthy and necessary! Arguing means you care enough to bring things up with one another sometimes.

          42. Sweetest Perfection says:

            ***allowed. Yes, drama drama queens.

          43. NarcAngel says:

            Yes. Pee. Shower. Hydrate. Sex is an activity and release for me and not for purposes of bonding. I do not like cuddling outside of the bedroom either. Holding on for any length of time feels restrictive and smothering and I will almost immediately disengage.

          44. empath007 says:

            Interesting! To each their own. Luckily lots of men would have no issue with that as most are it the same way you do. I really enjoy intimacy and I like to just rest after… mostly because an O can take a lot out of me. So I think it’s nice to just hang out after for at least 15-20 minutes. When I’ve had partners who reacted like you I did not enjoy it much… just seemed way too uptight. But you’ve shed some perspective on it now.

          45. MB says:

            Peeing after sex is a must for urinary health!

          46. HG Tudor says:

            But not a must for posting here!

          47. MB says:

            Ha ha. It’s like the public service announcements you hear on the radio. Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming…

          48. Lorelei says:

            MB—some pee during sex.

          49. MB says:

            Lorelei, is that ok? I do sometimes. Of course I tend to dribble a bit during most physical activities! I was really self conscious and worried about it when planning to meet N for actual sex. Luckily it never happened! If I really let go and relax into it, the pee happens. I told him once, what if I pee when we are together. He said, do whatever you have to do. Yeah sure, during the GP. Once devaluation happens, I’m sure things would have changed drastically.

          50. Lorelei says:

            I was referring to water sports actually! My oldest was breech so I don’t have the urinary issues (during sex) as my kids were all c-sections.

          51. MB says:

            As I said, I have an uncanny ability to make a fool of myself! I’ll pass on the water sports. I don’t know if the stress incontinence later or taking care of a newborn after major surgery is worse. At least you recover from the c-section with like new lady bits! There is that 😊

          52. Lorelei says:

            As far as water sports—if anyone tried that with me the fuel would be negative. A foot up their ass. Is that a challenge?

          53. MB says:

            I’m afraid to Google water sports to be honest. I have the general idea and that is good enough. I don’t have any curiosity around it. Negative fuel. Absolutely!

          54. Lorelei says:

            I have to be careful with weird activity on my devices because of my kids MB! They are always changing my profile pictures etc.. Always on my stuff. I found my Facebook profile pic was a monster Snapchat picture for awhile and I had no idea. I’m eagerly awaiting the production of “Billy Elliot” in theatre at the moment. Have a good night.

          55. Lorelei says:

            MB—I hate Word Press.. I can’t reply to you where you are talking about not experiencing exercise highs but preferring pizza. Here it goes.. Food is a relationship—nothing less/nothing more. Simplify it. We are learning relationships require (demand) a new approach here. I call it boundaries for simplification. I don’t think HG is a huge fan of the term boundaries for being a catch all but it works for me. You also have a relationship with your body—not just people. I was in deplorable physical shape after never having been in such a position during the end of the mind fuck. I just couldn’t get up—I slept up to 16 hours/day. I lost the capacity to prepare healthy food or clean my house. (Had a cleaner come in weekly—it gave him
            more fuel to berate me over not functioning and he was the common denominator ironically..) In 2 years I gained a lot of weight and I’ve had to fix this. It was imperative and I’m back to the right mental state or my baseline mental state. (The weight increase was bad food and mostly alcohol)
            The “high” comes from busting your ass. A half mile stroll isn’t going to produce this—it’s nice and healthy but the high is generated by pushing and raising the bar. I’m not saying pizza isn’t tempting but it’s like a “bad date.” (For me)
            Exercise is really fun and it feels much better to work your ass off doing healthy things than wasting it on pizza. I’d venture to say my morning run tomorrow will benefit me 100% more than eating half a pizza. (I’m really beating pizza up because I do admire it!) I’m going to eventually have to learn to like what I perceive as “boring” men too. HG has his work cut out for him. Anyway, the bottom line is to encourage some thought on how to kick your own ass. It feels good when you are almost dead but not after a work out.

          56. MB says:

            Lorelei, I’ve taken so long to respond to this comment because it is truth. My relationship with myself and my body is and always has been “on the rocks”. (Except when I was a kid.) I’ve resigned myself to irreconcilable differences. My relationship with food is equally unhealthy. I read a book by G. Roth called ‘When Food is Love’ about 5 years ago and cried my eyes out. I never had a weight issue until after my second baby and starting on mental meds which happened around the same time. I feel like a thin person in a body that doesn’t match. I’m miserable much of the time. Food and alcohol do help short term but then start the cycle of shame again. I go through periods of extreme control. Trying to be perfect and I do really well. But something happens and I can’t sustain it. I rebel against my controlling self with reckless abandonment. I sabotage it when I see progress. I am an all or nothing person. I set a goal to go to the gym three times this week. I missed Monday so, what the hell, I’ll try again next week. I messed up and had a slice of pizza. Oh well, since I already failed, I might as well fail big and eat half of the pie. I feel in constant war within myself of good and bad. My good, logical self wants me to eat healthy and exercise. My rebellious sabotaging self says to my good self, you can’t tell me what to do! It’s always been this way. I was able to be perfect for a year and I lost 65 lbs. this was 9 years ago. Then the sabotage kicked in. Once I allowed that one carbohydrate into my mouth, I was done. I had messed up all that I had accomplished and was no longer perfect. Since then, I’ve gained it all back and then some. Perfectionism isn’t what people think. It is awful and insidious. It confirms over and over that you are a failure at everything. A self fulfilling prophecy since there is no such thing as a perfect human. Procrastination is a huge issue in my life as well. Linked to perfectionism. If I can’t do it perfectly, I just won’t attempt it at all. Bottom line, I’m fucked up. When I try to do better, I will for a while but it never lasts. I’ve got to fix my head and I have no idea how. I do know how to kick my own ass. It’s just that the bad, rebellious side of me always wins. The good, logical side needs to step up her game.

          57. Lorelei says:

            Beautiful post MB. Very relatable, very authentic and very real. I was really shocked how compromised I was when I had lost the ability to function. I may expand more later—It’s complicated and I’m still in awe at times. I was nearly obliterated in terms of being able to even stay awake, could not attend to anyone’s needs or my own. Yes, it was circumstantial but the repercussions were that a lot of action was required. Action is logical and this I do firmly believe. I know HG’s work can help with this—the approach of logic (and really mindfulness) is so much of what he discusses in regard to our own behavior. I support you 100% and there are so many ways to incorporate logical physical health into daily life. Much the same as me eliminating my engagement with narcissistic men MB—I have to think of my behavior in my daily engagements. I have to fight against what I naturally do because it’s unhealthy.

          58. Sweetest Perfection says:

            MB, reading your honest comment made me cry. I know exactly how you feel. I have been a perfectionist my whole life and it is just a constant self-blaming, self-putting down, striving to be better and better. I suffered anorexia during my whole college years and this brought a lot of unnecessary pain to my family and friends. My mom sent out “spies” -my friends- to the library where I spent the entire day to make sure I ate something. They pretended to be passing by and invited me to have a snack. They followed be to the bathroom, not knowing I didn’t suffer bulimia, I just didn’t want to eat. It all started the first time I came to the US after winning a prestigious scholarship. I didn’t have my support system, or my friends, or my boyfriend. I didn’t understand the American culture and didn’t understand that people didn’t see eating as a social thing like I did, most people ate in front of the computer, alone. So I stopped eating. And soon I realized that was the only thing I had control over, and it became an obsession. Eating disorders are not as easy as “girls just want to look like models.” People don’t understand they are born out of personality issues and a need of control. In a way I understand when HG explains that “narcissism stops him from seeing this or that” because something similar happens when you have an eating disorder. One part of you remains rational; I looked at myself and knew I looked extremely thin (I was 80 pounds). I knew I needed to eat. But my anorexia took over all rationality. I am perfectly fine now and my relationship with food is completely normal, but it was never the food. You have to work on yourself and learn to love yourself and let go a little of your demands and expectations to yourself. I am sorry you are going through this, MB. I know it seems impossible now but I know you can do it. 😘
            PS: HG has an article about an anorexic ex. I found it romantic he says he tried to make her eat. That should tell you how fucked up the disorder is.

          59. MommyPino says:

            MB, I can relate to your battle with perfectionism. I had similar problems and the one that helped me was a philosophy offered by a podcast called ‘Sorta Awesome’. I haven’t listened to it for a long time but I liked their philosophy on why their name is ‘Sorta Awesome’. The host explained that a lot of people battle with perfectionism and she described similar scenarios such as what you described. So she started having this philosophy where she just aims for ‘sorta awesome’ instead of ‘awesome!’ So if you have set a goal of exercising three times a week and you missed Monday, it’s not going to be ‘awesome!’ but you can still make it ‘sorta awesome’ by not missing on Wed and Fri. And even if you missed all three days of exercise, no exercise would still be ‘sorta awesome’ if you didn’t have a slice of pizza. So I don’t aim for awesome anymore, I’m ok with ‘sorta awesome.’ I know it’s easier said than done but I thought I would share with you what helped me. I think that the self flagellating trait of empaths also causes you to have pizza. I think that you can train yourself to not beat yourself up for not attaining complete ‘awesomeness’ and just be grateful when you are able to get to ‘sorta awesomeness’.

          60. MB says:

            HG, have you shared your anecdotal empath numbers? How likely are we to see them in our everyday lives?

          61. HG Tudor says:

            You will encounter empaths in your everyday lives, MB.

          62. empath007 says:

            Not men. At least I don’t.

          63. MB says:

            Empath007, that answer didn’t satisfy my curiosity either. I only know one empathic man (maybe one other iffy one) My youngest son is an empath. He makes his mama so proud. 🥰

            As a general rule, I find empaths harder to spot than narcs. Could it be they are less than 1 in 6 like narcs or maybe they are just more subtle?

          64. HG Tudor says:

            Work it out. I have given you the answer.

          65. empath007 says:

            Yes I find them hard to spot too, Also men are just conditioned to be more selfish in general. Not a lot of men are raised to “think about others feelings” OR encouraged to express their own feelings. This makes it a lot harder to find a man who’s an empath. Or a man who is just more in tune with other people’s feelings.

            Anyways. I enjoy my own company. I’m not desperate to find anyone, I actually enjoy some space after being in relationships for so long.

            Good on your for raising an empathetic young man. Says a lot about you as a mom.

          66. MB says:

            Thank you Empath007, my other son is a normal like my husband. Not rude, just oblivious. My youngest considers how his actions will affect others. Example: if I’m in the shower when it’s time for him to leave for school, he locks up the house and sets the alarm. My oldest would just walk out and not even lock the door and may even leave the garage door open! Sounds like a small thing, but there are all kinds of considerate acts like that all the time that he does that don’t benefit him directly and take a little effort on his part. It stands out to me because the others I’ve lived with are so much different. I wouldn’t say it’s attributed to me, though. Maybe it’s genetic 😊

          67. cb says:

            ‘Jealous of your contentment’
            is the article which tells us how to be to attract nonnarcs. Easier said than done, for many of us.

          68. Kel says:

            I had an O once standing at the Narc desk when all he did was roll his chair towards me to prove to me that we had too much sexual chemistry to trust ourselves. Out of nowhere I had a bonafide orgasm, clutching the edge of the desk, my head stretching upwards, and me struggling to stay silent and hold in the O moan. Never ever had such an easy experience like that. A bit awkward! So when I had finished, I just said, Well I guess you’re right, and walked out of his office.

            I have to say I’ve never had to fake an O with an Italian. But my Narc wasn’t Italian. Sorry if this was TMI!

          69. MB says:

            Kel, no such thing as TMI at narcsite! Nice story. I’m sure N felt powerful indeed. I’ve crushed on a couple of Italians in my life. Both chefs. Of course, never had sex with them. Are all Italian guys short or was it just mine?

          70. NarcAngel says:

            Go Kel! There’s a case for having extra panties in your desk drawer if I ever heard one. Who needs a Kit Kat when you can have that kind of a break?

          71. foolme1time says:

            Oh NA you ate on a roll today! It must be from all of the cuddling you did last night! 🤗

          72. foolme1time says:

            NA, are not ate. Unless you did eat something off of someone’s buns today? 😉

          73. NarcAngel says:

            ME eating off of someone’s buns?! Haha, that’ll be the day.

          74. foolme1time says:

            Hahaha NA! I knew that would get your attention! 😘😘😘🤗

          75. Kel says:

            Most Italians are short, but some are 6’. They are very passionate lovers! It feels like your souls gravitated up and had intercourse with each other too! Like their cooking, they take love making seriously. And it is passionate, I remember one time it was so incredibly just beautiful, we both had a tear roll down our cheeks- hope that doesn’t sound corny- but it’s true! Where’d all the Italians go?

          76. HG Tudor says:

            This is just a wild guess, Kel, but possibly they are in Italy.

          77. WokeAF says:

            “Many women don’t know they can have multiple orgasms easily.”

            Many women don’t know about the Tracy’s Dog c-sucking,g-spot vibrating sex toy.

            If they did that in itself might help them abandon the narcissist

            Ps. Hydrate.

          78. MB says:

            WokeAF, you had to make me google that 😂 Who names a sex toy company Tracy’s Dog? Good Lord! I’ve never heard of it. I learn something new everyday here. “Ps. Hydrate.” Hilarious! Btw, Amazon carries it. Thanks for the advice. I like having all these girlfriends to help me out!

          79. kel2day says:

            NA, 🤣🤣🤣 Great idea with the undies because you never know!

          80. kel2day says:

            Haha HG!! In Italy indeed! They’re mostly in New York or Florida over here. I’ve been thinking it would be fun to live overseas for a year, but I hadn’t considered Italy.. until just now!!

          81. HG Tudor says:

            You should do so, it is a fantastic country.

          82. MB says:

            Let’s go Kel! Italy or bust!

          83. kel2day says:

            MB, You would be loads of fun to go to Italy with- especially with your country twang and both of us trying to speak Italian!! Doing!

          84. MB says:

            Kel, we’d take Italy by storm! I’ve probably never had pizza until I’ve had it in Italy.

          85. MommyPino says:

            MB, I think my husband has a lot of empathy although he’s also very narcissistic. He might be an empathic Normal or a Carrier empath. Sex with him is great, I never have problems having multiple Os and I probably suck in bed because he’s the only guy that I’ve ever had sex with. But I always feel cherished and he always makes me feel like a rockstar in bed even though I’m probably not. We have simultaneous orgasms eventually because I have multiple and eventually we simultaneously have it. He always smiles at me in the end like he has such a prize. The only drawback that I have is he’s religious and sometimes I am curious about trying other stuff that I don’t think that he will ever want to try. Like I got invited by my mom friends for all of us to watch 50 Shades of Grey before where we would all wear fake handcuffs and cheap boas for fun and having drinks together and he said that I can do what I want but he acted so unhappy that I am doing it because it teaches a wrong attitude about sex and he didn’t want me to be seen by people in the community watching the movie while wearing fake handcuffs. So I ended up not going because I couldn’t stand making him unhappy. So there’s the little drawback. But I’m still quite happy with my multiple Os. My husband said that some women doesn’t have that. And also the fact that I don’t have to worry about him withholding intimacy or devaluing me.

          86. MB says:

            MP, it sounds like you have a good thing going!

            You didn’t miss anything not watching 50 Shades. Fun with your friends, yes. The movie, no. It is good Narc education for beginners though. Such blatant narc behavior in that one. I’m more angry at them than of the producers of Pretty Woman!

          87. HG Tudor says:

            50 Shades of Shite is an abomination and it should be burned and deleted.

          88. MB says:

            MB agrees and approves.

          89. empath007 says:

            Yes MP. It’s terrible. I bought the first book when I was bored with my sex life… and the book bored me more then my own sex life.

            The characters are flat. The dialogue is extremly simplified. Nothing about it was steamy or a turn on. I have no idea why it was such a hit.

            But go figure a book meant to turn women on would be such a bore.

          90. HG Tudor says:

            Your second sentence is very entertaining.

          91. MommyPino says:

            “I was bored with my sex life… and the book bored me more then my own sex life.”

            😂. I’m so glad that I didn’t buy the book. I was seriously curious what the fuss was all about. I’ll just stick to GOT. At least the story line and production is amazing!

          92. Renarde says:

            Aww come come HG. The red room is rather spiffing! Such toys…

          93. MommyPino says:

            Thank you MB! Glad I didn’t watch it then. I saw the DVD at the $5 bin at Walmart and I almost bought it out of curiosity. Glad I didn’t. I haven’t read the book either. I love Pretty Woman though. It’s one of my feel good movies. I love love love the hotel manager. He was like a modern day fairy godmother. 😊

          94. MB says:

            MP, Hector Elizondo is an excellent actor. He is wonderful in ‘The Other Sister’ too. One of my favorite movies. If you haven’t seen it, it’s an excellent movie too.

          95. MommyPino says:

            Thank you MB. I will definitely check that out. I always like the way he acts. But especially in Pretty Woman, the way he interacted with her, the way he looked at her just made me feel so happy for her because he was looking at her recognizing her dignity. He did such a great job in that movie.

          96. ava101 says:

            Pretty woman is one of the best movies ever.
            Never watched or read 50 shades of whatever, as it struck me as boringly artificial, or like … people haven’t lived, no?

          97. MB says:

            Ava101, I thought Pretty Woman was one of the best too until the other week when it was confirmed that Edward was a narc and that an alternate ending had been created to cover up that fact. It was like finding out Santa isn’t real. Fairy tales do happen, just not like that.

          98. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            AVA. We are probably the few women left that have not read 50 shades of Grey. I never saw the movie ever. I have no reason really why I did not seek it out. So much product out there to read and view. I am going to pass on it.

          99. Chihuahuamum says:

            On the topic of multiple orgasms ..ive never had an issue having them one right after the other. I feel sorry for those who havent figured out how or cant for some reason. Idk the science behind it but from an early age i was able to. A friend of mine explained how and from there on i was able to have as many as i wanted. I think my record is 16 spread out in one encounter. It is different manually vs with a sexual partner. Sorry if tmi 😁

          100. MB says:

            Chimum, wow! Just wow! I’m definitely broken or malfunctioning. More with a partner or without? 16 sounds exhausting, but I wouldn’t mind getting the count over one! Men really did get cheated when it comes to orgasms. I actually feel kind of bad for them. 😐

          101. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Chihuahuam, MB, I believe that number, and I won’t say my highest number because then HG calls me a show off. I also agree it’s easier when you are by yourself because you don’t depend on anyone’s timing.

          102. MommyPino says:

            MB, I did ask my husband if he feels cheated. He said no, he also likes the multiple O’s because the contractions make him feel amazing.

          103. MB says:

            MP, good to know he doesn’t feel cheated. I’ve only ever had one at a time but I still feel bad because it lasts MUCH longer than his. I’ve never asked him if he felt cheated though. I’m the one that’s feeling cheated after all you ladies have shared! #lifegoals

          104. MommyPino says:

            MB, I’m not sure but I think my multiple O’s have more to do with my husband’s skills than mine. I guess he’s kinda narcish in a way that he always asks me which I liked best or felt best and really focused on me than him. Except that in the 11 years that we have been together he is still excited about sex with me. I just found out that I’m a Geyser Empath, so I was thinking I really lucked out that he is not a narc because if he was, my fuel would have already been stale a long time ago. It’s so nice that after 11 years he still thinks that I shine like a diamond. I guess God was really watching over me.

          105. MB says:

            MP, I’m not surprised at all that you are a Geyser. Yes, you are very fortunate to have met and fell in love with the man that you did!

          106. Abe Moline says:

            I certainly don’t feel cheated!

            It’s very rewarding, actually, for a man, to be able to experience a woman’s multiple orgasms.

          107. MommyPino says:

            That’s what my husband says too!

          108. MB says:

            Chimum, you have better friends than I do obviously. Nobody ever explained to me how. I thought it was just a thing that happened in movies, not real life!

          109. ava101 says:

            How do you catch up? ;D

          110. MB says:

            Ava101, I don’t know! Google and YT are our friends on this one I suppose. (And maybe Tracy’s Dog?)

          111. Kel2day says:

            Who counts how many orgasms they had – especially when they’re over 10?? How would you even pay attention to that count when you’re busy having orgasms? And how long are you taking to do it?? 1, 2 or 3 is plenty- Quality over quantity!

          112. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Kel2day I did! Because I wanted to know how much longer it could go! Hahaha it’s not that I count every time, this was a little experiment. I was young and just discovered that I could make them happen that’s all.

          113. Kel2day says:

            Sweetest Perfection,
            Gotcha! O-counting when you’re young is completely understandable!

          114. Kel2day says:

            Sad coincidence, my old Italian boyfriend I mentioned on this thread, about the beautiful tear we both had once after making love, just passed away last night per his wife’s post on FB. We had reached out to each other on FB a couple of years ago, and reminisced and caught up. No condolences to me or anything, but since I had commented about how special he was to me here a few days ago, is just all.

        2. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

          AVA: Pretty Woman had a bad ending! You saw the changed ending! The script was by Jonathan Lawton: Originally called $3,000. That is the price that the working girl contracted with a week for the businessman. He drove her back to her shabby derpived neighbohhood, pulled her out of his car and tossed her to the ground and tossed the money at her and drove away in the end. Some actresess turned down the original role because of the real ending: Ava, here is the real ending of Pretty Woman: [ Edward walks around the car and opens the trunk. He pulls out
          Vivian’s few boxes of clothes and sets them down on the curb. He
          shuts the trunk.
          He walks over to the passenger door and opens it.
          Get out.
          Vivian doesn’t move. She is still crying.
          Don’t make me regret ever picking
          you up. Now please, get out of the
          car. I have to go.
          Edward grabs her by the hand and starts to pull her from the
          car. Vivian explodes again and starts hitting and kicking him.
          Edward forcibly drags her from the car and then throws her to
          the ground. He slams the door shut.
          As Vivian hits the ground she begins to cry again, too weak to
          fight anymore.
          Edward looks down at her. He takes the money envelope from his
          jacket and holds it out to her.
          Here, take it. It’s your money.
          (sobbing in fits)
          I don’t want it. Just go away.
          Take it.
          You’ll regret it tomorrow if you
          don’t take it. You’ll regret it the
          minute I drive away.
          Vivian doesn’t say anything. Edward lays the envelope down on
          the sidewalk in front of her.
          He turns and walks around the car. Vivian lies frozen for a
          moment and then suddenly snaps alive as she hears the sound of
          his car door opening and closing.
          She grabs the envelope and crushes it in her hand. She leaps at
          the car and starts smashing her fists against it and the
          Go to hell! I hate you! I hate your
          money! I hate it!
          We see a flash of Edward’s face as he stares at Vivian pounding
          on his window. She’s completely lost her mind. He puts the car
          in gear and pushes on the accelerator.
          Vivian is still pounding as the car pulls away. In a final
          gesture of rage she throws the envelope at the car and it breaks
          open as the car peels off.
          The money scatters across the gutter as the car drives away.
          Vivian falls to her knees, weak and crying.
          Across the street various shabby-looking people stare at Vivian
          and the money.
          Vivian is on her hands and knees sobbing. She can barely
          breathe. She is completely broken.
          She wipes the tears from her cheeks. She looks down the street.
          The Mercedes is gone.
          For a brief moment she is still, frozen like a statue.
          She reaches down in the gutter and starts to pick up the money.`]

          1. MommyPino says:

            PSE, that’s so sad. 😭.

          2. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            MommyP; So many working girls love that movie, and think they will end up like that. So many men think they can marry a working girl and it will all end up like that. That movie is culturally problematic. I live next to `Broadway` the theatre district, in NYC. The play Pretty Woman seems to be doing well with long lines and many men in the line as well, interestingly, for a change. Hollywood.

          3. MommyPino says:

            Are you sure those men in line were not gay?
            I can see how the story can be problematic in RL. In some countries, a lot of prostitutes ended up that job because they didn’t have a choice. They were usually exploited because they were impoverished and uneducated. They dream of a guy who would be their savior. Just like in the play Miss Saigon which is another story that had me crying for days and even gave me a nightmare. In my home country, some of these women have met a foreigner who doesn’t care about their past and these women ended up being the most loyal and grateful wives for these men. It’s a different story if one of them is narcissistic or a narcissist. It might be a different story for working girls in wealthy countries.

          4. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Mommy Pino: Is Madame Butterfly and Miss Saigon similar? I saw one of them, but I do not remember which: She, the Asian girlfriend had a son by him, the Caucasian man, and then he left her country and returned with his Caucasian wife or fiance? And the Asian lady jumped off a cliff and committed suicide, and I guess he would raise the son he had with her? It was fantastic! One of my favorites. Don Juan, Faust, and Madam Butterfly or Miss Saigon, are my favorites, when done well, of course. Taming of the Shrew, as well.

          5. MommyPino says:

            I think that Miss Saigon was based on Madame Butterfly but instead of a Japanese woman, it was a story of a Vietnamese woman. Both women killed themselves in the end. I think you were talking about Miss Saigon although she killed herself with a gun. I don’t think that I can call it fantastic although it is critically acclaimed. I was really bothered by it because of how tragic it was. The actors who play the lead role Kim is usually a Filipina and the first ever Kim and won a Tony award was a Filipina actress Lea Salonga. She did a spectacular job.

          6. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Mommy Pino: Usually those lines are mostly full of women to see Broadway plays. With a few men scattered about. So if the men are gay or not in the lines, I do not know , but that play, Pretty Women, sure does interest men, more than the other ones. And I am not exactly sure why. I wanted to see the play American Psycho, but I heard it closed earlier than expected. I should probably check. This is a rumor city. Always rumors. One never knows what play will be a hit or not, despite all the professional critics crying about one play or the other, opening. For example, Hamilton was initially canned by the critics. Yet, one had to practically be a celebrity if one wanted to see it, when it opened, and then it went on the road soon after. I was not interested in seeing it and that is a good thing, because I would have had problems to see it, and I would not even think of paying ticket scalpers some extreme price for a ticket. I do not chase in this town. There was so much hostility over Spiderman when it opened, that I had to see the play myself to see what the hostility was about, from the critics and the other playwrights. The other playwrights were disguising themselves to sneak in and see it, as well, just like some mental practitioners and coaches and such people sneak in to see what is going on in Narcsite, without showing themselves, and some of them were outed despite their disguises, for quietly coming in to see Spiderman. Because some playwrights were telling viewers to not go see Spiderman, yet when asked if they had seen it, the playwrights would say, no, they had not seen it, but people should not go. True story. Spiderman was magnificent. The story line was more on the dark side. I believe that it had too much ingenuity in many areas and would have awakened the public to demand more from Broadway. Politics. Money. Power. The play was amazing, and then I knew why there was so much hostility and envy and jealousy and fear from the other playwrights and so much delight from the viewing public regarding Spiderman. (Reminds me of a certain Creative Intellectual that I know that is way ahead of his time.) So, Spider Man was chased out of town by the power of the other Plays on Broadway. What I am telling you is first hand, and from inside people and from my seeing the play myself. You may not find what I am telling you on Google or whatever, about the play/musical Spiderman. I lived 2 blocks from that play from when the set was being built all the way until it was chased out of town, under the guise that the sets were too dangerous on one hand, and that the story was not done well and a bit too dark on the other lighter hand. I did hear that Spiderman went to Las Vegas, but I heard that years, ago. The sets are so demanding and innovative that the play has to stay wherever it travels and has to be built on site. Very cumbersome and expensive. I believe it is the most expensive and costly created play in history around 90 million dollars I heard at the time. Who knows what happened to the play, Spiderman. The director is the same one who directs the play The Lion King, Julie Taymor. I never was interested in The Lion King, but people like it. HG: I heard some months back that a play called Inheritance is opening, or had opened. I thought of you when I heard the title.

          7. MommyPino says:

            Wow PSE, I had no idea that there can be so much politics over Broadway plays. That is one of my bucket lists in life, to watch a broadway play. I can imagine that Spiderman would be great. I think some culture snobs tend to look down on superhero movies or plays because they think that these types of movies or plays lack sophistication. But most people love them for a very good reason, they’re entertaining! I can see how men might like certain chick flicks like Pretty Woman. My husband doesn’t like chick flicks but he will watch with me any chick flick that has Drew Barrymore in it. He also liked Pretty Woman because of Julia Roberts’ personality and smile. She was a working girl but she had so much innocence. The guy was very cynical and she lightened him up. It’s obviously going to end tragically in RL because he is most likely a narc and she is too vulnerable and will be terribly heart broken just like in the original ending.

          8. MommyPino says:

            By the way, the only thing that i like about Las Vegas is their shows. They always have fantastic shows.

          9. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            MommyPino: Yes! So much politics. Yes, you are right as well about the snobbery, yet people all over the place were disguising themselves and not disguising themselves to go and see Spiderman, anyway. Purists still went to see it. Celebrities went to see it. Snobs went to see it. Even somber Play enthusiasts went to see it. That play almost caused a War on Broadway. I never saw such a fuss before or after Spiderman. Regarding the snobbery, you just reminded me, some critics were asking, is it a play? is it a musical? What is it? Some other critics were trying to have it both ways, by reviewing a play that they said they never saw. It was so crazy: How preposterous is that. Ms. Taymor threw everything plus the kitchen sink into that play. The sets were spell binding. She really is a free thinker. I remember thinking, I hope she survives all this, with many critics and other Plays going up against her. I even sent her an email to keep her chin up. Who knows if she ever read my email. I do not know her. I am not in her world nor famous, but I still sent her that encouraging email. I felt real bad for her. If Spiderman ever comes around a location where you are, please go see it. There is nothing like it. And, that ingenuity frightened the status quo, and that ingenuity costs a lot of money, as well, and that frightened the other Plays, also. I actually cried when Spiderman left town. Way too soon. There were lawsuits against the play as well because of injuries that some of the actors incurred. But, politics were part of those lawsuits as well. There has been nothing like it with so much drama since then. Powerful greedy forces that did not want the bar to be raised by the expectations of the viewing public, pushed the play out: Many other plays just want to spend as little money as possible and convince you, the paying audience, to use your imagination. Spiderman did the work. I would see The Lion King, her other production, for free only, but I would disguise myself somewhat to go and see that. It probably is very good. But, not my taste. So I would wear a disguise. But, for some reason, I do not want to see The Lion King, really. Spiderman, from the name, was not my taste, initially, I thought, and if the critics and other plays had not fought against Spiderman so hard, I probably never would have seen it. But, I am very glad I did see it. The production I saw of Madame Butterfly was Incredible! The sets and costumes and the performance and the sound. It was stunning and dignified and a very very expensive production. It had a short run, so one had to make up their mind quickly to see it or not when it came to town. So, I did. It was fantastic. They did their job with that production. Thank you for telling me about Miss Saigon. I want to see Miss Saigon. Maybe I can find a production on the internet. I think you would like Madame Butterfly, as well. It is of course also a tragedy, but maybe a different type of tragedy than Miss Saigon. I hope I do not cry for days and days like you did, over Miss Saigon, MommyP. That is sort of overdoing it.

          10. MommyPino says:

            PSE I love that the Spiderman play caused so much ruckus among the hypocrite snobs in the theatre scene over there. I wish that I have seen that play. It sounds like something that I would definitely enjoy watching. It also sounds like the broadway scene is infested with narcs. I can imagine narcs, especially Mid-Rangers would love to be a critic. It gives them a sense of power and influence and a platform to bully while looking dignified and sophisticated at the same time. They don’t realize that the majority of the viewing population don’t care about what they have to say. People watch what entertains them.
            The Miss Saigon made me cried for days, although I want to clarify, I was crying in spurts and not nonstop. I also had a nightmare of the mom begging them to take her baby. I think that it’s because it’s close to my heart and my personal life. I saw my young self in the child of the Vietnamese woman. In Asia, growing up half American can be both good and bad in extreme. The good is that everyone seems to think you’re beautiful because you look different. The bad is you are also picked on for not being like them. You stand out in a sea of people who all have black hair and different tones of brown skin. There is also a stigma for working girls over there in countries that give high value for a virgin wife. If you’re mixed race, there is an automatic assumption that your dad was a service man and your mom was a working girl and it is up to you to disprove that. I also felt bad for the exploitation of the innocent Kim. She was a child when she was exploited to be a working girl. She had no control over her life. I think the fact that she had no control over her life also bothered me so much. I don’t think that I can watch it again but it’s a really good story.

          11. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            MommyPino: When you look at the original script for Pretty Woman, that I took that excerpt from, she was not innocent at all, on the male and female dynamic. And she had the overly jaded frame of thoughts and conversation that would develop after being in that profession for six years. I read some of it. You can read the script, just google for the full script from the info. I gave with that excerpt, if you want to see for yourself. That movie is lying if it portrays her as somewhat innocent.

          12. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            MommyPino: I found a well received production of Madame Butterfly with English Subtitles for youhttps://youtu.be/5T_whchilwQ

          13. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Mommy Pino: Madame Butterfly:https://youtu.be/5T_whchilwQ?list=PLwIqZKiv9BJSU5mI0A8CQ35Kduw3Y8ZFI

      2. MB: You dated a Chef ? So did I. Why oh Why could it not work out for me. It was almost perfect. And it was a famous restaurant in NYC. And you know Chefs are Kings, in this town anyway. I always could order whatever I wanted and I had my own little table. And he would bring my meal out to me, Himself, and people would stare at me, because I heard he never brought the food out himself. I have to add Chef to my list. My Grandparents ran a little restaurant/speakeasy when I was growing up. So, I have a cultural familial sort of rapport with Chefs and Maitre Ds etc. They never know why, but I do. I forgot about Chefs. I think I will work on it, when I have more strength. It is easy to find them. Just go to restaurants early, before the happy hour. That is how I unintentionally met the Chef. I stopped in to that restaurant early one afternoon to take a quick break while shopping that day. Just go in early and ask if the Chef is there because you have a question. I believe if you happen to be looking real pretty that day, they will gladly go and retrieve the Chef for you. Everyone working in the Restaurant wants to be on the Chef`s good side in NYC. Chef hunting. Hahaha. They make good money as well, in NYC, and in probably all large cities. Al lot of them are part owners as well.

        1. MB says:

          PSE. I’ve crushed on a couple of chefs, but remember, I’ve never dated anybody. I definitely approve of chef hunting. Just be careful, the profession is swarming with narcs. Such divas most of those guys are. But a man that can cook…yummy indeed!

          1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            MB: I am sure you are right. I heard that he was a terror in the kitchen, but I never saw that side. And one of the waiters told me that he loved when I came to the restaurant because the Chef would be in a good mood I bet it is like a military operation in the kitchen. But he cooked very well, especially if one is a foodie. I am not really a foody. But his preparations almost did not look like food. I remember the first meal he brought out to me. I was sitting at the bar, talking to him as he went in out of the kitchen and the bartender and hanging out a bit, one afternoon. It was a small cornish hen, and the 2 eggs looked like eyes and some little house shaped structure was the vegetables, with small roasted potatoes inside, that sort of thing. Then he stared at me, and the bartender stared at me, and I felt on the spot, so I said, Wow. He looked happy and went back into the kitchen. The bartender smiled and went back to setting up the bar. I guess I passed some test.

          2. MB says:

            PSE, that’s special! I love trying new foods although I wouldn’t consider myself a foodie. The chefs used to make me special stuff and I always got to sample the specials for the evening. Nothing like what you describe he made for you though. Of course I was the boss, not the girlfriend. You were higher up on the totem pole!

      3. foolme1time says:

        MB I was thinking perhaps they were like the burn hazel or burn nettle that we have over here. You can actually make tea with them.

    2. Abe Moline says:


      I’m not sure nettles or no nettles with SM is of any relevance. If he’s not using that, he’s probably using other methods for the same purpose, specifically customized for SM.

      Why would he restrict his desire of control during sex? If it’s mutually satisfying for both (and I’m sure it is) then I see no reason for that.

      1. Lorelei says:

        I think I’m going to vomit Abe. I’m not entirely sure why.

        1. Abe Moline says:


          “Other methods for the same purpose” – the purpose being control, that’s what I meant, not generating pain and/or itchiness in sensitive areas…

          1. HG Tudor says:


          2. Lorelei says:

            I know. I know. A little hair pulling just seems more benign than itchy vaginas!

          3. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Lorelei hahaha!

          4. Bibi says:

            Poor HG having to listen to all this talk on v-holes. Jesus Christ.

            While we’re at it, my 1st menstrual period I was 13 and a half and had such bad cramps that I crouched sweating beside my middle school toilet. When I informed my friend she said, ‘That is what drug addicts do.’

            Thankfully, the 1st period was the worst. The rest have just been a nuisance.

          5. foolme1time says:

            Hahaha! Oh Bibi! 🤦🏼‍♀️

    3. Yolo says:

      Lol. Sweet P, Did you read it? He didn’t address S&M but he gave us details as to why and his purpose. I would quote parts of it but I was turned on and fear triggers. 😊

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        Yolo, I have read everything HG has published. My kindle section is Tudor’s Dungeon.

        1. Yolo says:

          Sweet P. I don’t doubt it now we will need to get you a tudorette coffee mug with his original fury logo on it. Of course upon HG approval.

          I read this part and in my little mind I interpreted to have answered part of your question.

          Good. Very well since that is going to happen and I will hold you to that promise Dr E, I will expand on my point.”

          “I do it because the issue of that person’s pain and then pleasure is entirely at my gift. I control it and that appeals to me considerably.”

          “So control in an sexual encounter is important to you?” asked Dr E.

          “Control is the sexual encounter for me. I have little interest in my own sexual gratification, yes it feels pleasant when I orgasm but ultimately I can do that myself and invariably with more intense results. I have even less interest in the sexual gratification of another person. Denying them that sexual gratification? Now that is far more enjoyable than granting them their release. Sex is all about control. I am highly skilled in between the sheets.”

          “Is that your conclusion or of others?”

          “Both. You see I know how people think, I know how they react and I have had many sexual encounters with many different people. There are vast numbers of different permutations when it comes to what satisfies a person and no two people are the same. I am like a super computer. I can rattle through the various combinations until I hit the right approach which will send my bedroom companion into orbit. I am willing to apply every part of my body, every facet of my sexual knowledge in order to make that person feel utterly orgasmic. That gives me huge control over them and makes me very powerful. I know what turns them on, what makes them moan and scream and shudder in orgasmic bliss. I use this massively powerful ability of mine to bring them under my spell. Once that is done I will grant it and deny it as and when I see fit. I will purposefully do the things that does not arouse them in order to make them react. I will caress a partner in a public place and whisper in their ear that if they show any kind of reaction to what I am doing I will stop and deny them any sexual congress for an indefinite period. This gives them an earth shattering orgasm and underlines my control over them. I will interrupt a row with a girlfriend by taking her against the kitchen workbench. She soon forgets what the argument was about as I have her moaning in delight before I just walk off before she climaxes. Imagine how she follows me about the house begging for me to “finish her off”? Think of the promises she makes just to feel me inside her again? That is control. That is power. I work out a person’s sexual key code and deliver heaven. They find that addictive and want it so much. I find the power attached to this ability addictive. When you go to bed with me you are getting the best.

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Yolo, I think we decided on “Tudorite” which is more gender inclusive but thanks, I’d love the mug! 😎

  29. MB says:

    HG, can you say if you’ve bedded Dr O yet? It must be a goal of yours to make Dr O…well, O

  30. Caron says:

    My ex narc’s “skills” were size and frequency. It sometimes was acrobatic. I enjoyed him, but I never lost my mind. He didn’t know how to touch my heart, and after the abuse really got rolling, he couldn’t anymore. I have never met anyone I could surrender to.

    We all have our limits; flaws; things that keep us from being whole here. Your bodies were designed for being with one person and one person only, all your life. Your hearts were designed for the exertion of loving and growing and being emotionally intimate with multiple people-lovers, children, family, friends—but finally with just the one. Your minds were designed to see only one person naked in a sexual way. In this age of free and easy sex and porn, we are all ruined. Even people who do it “right” still have everything good hijacked by this fallen world.

    Dr. E is not the intellectual equivalent of HG, but that doesn’t make him an idiot. He is doing what he has been trained to do and what he is being paid to do, and trying to get HG to see himself from the commonly believed morality of the masses, or to get HG to want more for himself than just control. There is more, but HG I presume has already seen it and rejected it. It is unlikely you have understood it thoroughly though, having never experienced it, in order to make a completely informed decision about it, however everyone has their own certain kinds of works of art that attract them. It must be difficult sometimes to have to submit to these sessions when you are always 10 steps ahead of the good doctors. It would have been fun to see what dr. O’s reaction would have been.

    1. Caron: I never heard these 3 things that you said: 1)“Your bodies were designed for being with one person and one person only, all your life“. 2)Your hearts were designed for the exertion of loving and growing and being emotionally intimate…but, finally with just the one.“ 3) “Your minds were designed to see only one person naked in a sexual way.“ Caron my knowledge of life and my understanding of interpersonal relationships stem largely from A): Western Civilization, B) The Holy Bible and C) living my entire life in the Northern Hemisphere. And in all my learning this is not the case of a person being designed for, this `Only One Person`, that you speak of. One may choose to live their life in this way, and there are various scenarios that may force someone to live this way, but not in the way you are saying it. I just wonder what is the foundation of your knowledge and beliefs, as I gave you mine.

    2. NarcAngel says:

      Your second paragraph holds no truth for me at all. Where did all of this information of what we were “designed” for or to do come from? It appears to have come from your imagination/personal belief, but you have written it as an absolute. It is absolute poppycock to me.

      1. Bibi says:

        I second NA on this. Say Whut?

        If I was ‘designed’ I’d still be with my first bf I had when I was 14 who now works in a casino, drinks Miller Lite every night, has a beer gut and plays pool and darts on the weekend.

        I doubt he has ever read a book in his life. His fave film is Fast and the Furious. Um, no. I’d rather have a rectal exam performed by a nun.

        1. Renarde says:

          Rectal exam performed by a nun? Bibi?

          That’s oddly specific!

          Kinky fucker!

    3. Yolo says:

      I am looking for the numbers. Assuming 2 means our hearts are meant to love in various ways but there should be a different love for your partner. I believe that to be true and it’s just my opinion. I haven’t been able to love another man the way I loved this one guy. ( non narc). I think..😊 When we have sex it connects us by so many variables hence , the addictions, lack of self awareness and esteem. Shit we are a myriad of people and their sexual experiences. In my opinion.

    4. Renarde says:

      I’m sure the reaction of the good Doctor would be ‘O-Gasmic’. Eh, HG?

  31. kaydiva3 says:

    I still don’t quite understand why you preferred to talk to the female therapist about sex. Was it about transference of her reaction to your sexual partners?

    1. empath007 says:

      My guess is… he assumes she wants To sleep with him. So why not entice her? 🤔

    2. Renarde says:

      I’m sure HG wanted to observe how much she was moving around in her chair. Giving him furtive glances at al.

      It’s quite a fun thing to do. I’ve done it myself to narcs.

  32. Claire says:

    HG Tudor, did you ever need to enforce a physical power when you used any sort of punishment ( collaring, canning, chocking, shibaru, etc etc ) during a bedroom activity in the devaluation stage in order to assert control ? Or your words and other actions were strong enough to make the other person to obey -even against their will? Honestly, I doubt it as you are a mastermind and I could sense upper class upbringing . But I am asking because I didn’t encounter an Elite kind of yours .

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Control was asserted from the issuing of the first word.

      1. Claire says:

        Thank you for your clear answer, HG. Words are such a powerful weapon.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome.

    2. Renarde says:


      Really good question. I once had a Dom who said a wise thing (for a narc). If I put these restraints on you, I have no need to use a padlock. You won’t want to take them off.

      HG has just reminded me of this.

      1. Claire says:

        Wow Renarde, I never had such an experience maybe because I didn’t encounter an Elite . So I am not familiar in real life how good they are exercising control . I have only a rough idea from HG Tudor’s marvellous portfolio.

        1. Renarde says:

          He does have a marvellous ‘portfolio’ x

  33. mai51 says:

    I also found the sex with my ex to be quite ordinary. Incredible sexual attraction, but it translated to quite vanilla sex. I even commented as much one time….. I didn’t mean it to be insulting, it was just an observation.

    He obviously filed this away, because when the disengagement was happening, he accused me of being a cold fish in bed. This hurt at the time, more than it should have.

    I’m currently in a relationship with a truly dominant guy and it has been a real eye opener. Dominant in the kinky meaning….. he’s actually incredibly respectful and very, very skilled in our power exchange……

    It’s made me realise that my ex was projecting his insecurities in the bedroom onto me….. he did have a lot of trouble staying hard…. which never really bothered me tbh, but, knowing what I know now….. oh my….. could never go back to vanilla lol

    1. Sweetest Perfection says:

      Cheers on you, mai51!

    2. madamexdomina says:

      Too much vanilla sex is for boring people. Or insecure, just. Or for the people who they are not attracted so much. If someone really likes you with you he will want to do everything. I think so.
      It can happen that a narcissistic partner at some point it seems that he lets himself go a lot (maybe because you stimulate him) but immediately after
      he restores control by denying you sex or accusing you of be too hot e transgressive.
      This happened to me.

      1. Claire says:

        I strongly disagree, madsmexdomina with the first paragraphs of your comment. I am very kinky and I am experienced in the role plays ( a switcher here:)) however nothing wrong if one prefers vanilla over BDSM or vice versa. But no amount of love for somebody can push me to have a threesome with another woman – I am 200 % straight:) and Mr Victim is bi, so talking from experience. Nor that he pushed me btw, he is sub. And no amount of love/ like can make want to do everything with somebody – like omorashi or bukkake . Each for their own:)

        1. mai51 says:

          Absolutely right Claire….. there’s no right or wrong in the bedroom…… as long as you’re matched in your natural roles or desires.

          I’ve stayed in vanilla too long, and always wondered why the dynamic wasn’t quite right….. for me.

          My ex was pretty into kink in his private play time, but it didn’t translate into our sex bc we’re both naturally subs, and I couldn’t be the domme I think he secretly wanted me to be. Which made me feel like a failure and terribly insecure.

          I have learnt so much in the last few months about my sexuality and my limits and I am incredibly grateful to my BF for being patient and gentle and for pushing my boundaries.

          It is nice to be truly intimate. To be truly present. To trust 110%

          1. Renarde says:

            Hey mai51!

            That’s an intresting one. Two subs together? It’s upsetting that he tried to force you into a role that you were uncomfortable with. Sounds like a lot of the ‘Do me’ subs I used to encounter. (I’m both a Dom and a sub but I’m not a switch- this confuses people).

            If would say with all kindness, be very VERY wary of male Doms. I would hazard a guess that the majority are narcs.

        2. madamexdomina says:

          But it’ s natural that everyone has their limits. The problem is when there are too many of these limits. But is it possible that in any discussion of any site one must always specify the obvious?

          1. Renarde says:

            There you go again! Why is it a problem that people have too many limits?? Educate me here.

          2. Claire says:

            Madamexdomina, I don’t see any dramas if someone has too many limits. What is appealing too many for you or me might me not too many for them and vice versa. For me sex is a pleasure, not a form of control like for HG and his kind . I don’t crave control so I don’t have the need to push my partner’s limits if it will make them uncomfortable in any way – feeling humiliated, denigrated or causing them any unwanted physical pain. I respect one’s limits . It is one story to invite them to try something new and another story to push their limits and make them uncomfortable. If I am the Top /Don my golden rule is to respect the limits . A gentle push is OK sometime but invading one’s limits is not OK. It is an abuse .

      2. Renarde says:

        How the actual FUCK did I miss this corker!

        I echo Claire. I strongly disagree. Vanilla sex is not for ‘boring’ people or insecure people.

        I write and educate on BDSM and you, my friend, are not doing my scene any favours. Some ‘nillas level at us that we, kinksters give ourselves airs. With tgat comment, I can see why.

        “If someone really likes you he will want to do everything.”

        Utter. Bollocks. And a dangerous statement to boot.

        My partner adores me and is extremely broad and dirty minded fucker. Even if I went down on bended knee and begged to be flogged, he wouldn’t do it. I respect him for that.

        Finally, I also take issue in your bald statement that all narcs withdraw sex. Some may, no doubt on that. However, I was with an Elite for 18 years. Thinking back he only refused be ONCE and that was in the first few months of our relationship, he wouldnt even have been 20. He may not even have become fully aware. He was my first Dominant.

        Only one other narc refused sex and the way he got away with that one is by downgrading our relationship from lover to friend.

        That however did not stop him trying it on with me on the night of my birthday. Had an inkling he might do that so I made sure I wore trousers.

        Very tempted though. Very.

        Word to the wise. There are a lot of posters on here who have had very unhappy and indeed traumatic sex lives. I’m incredibly fortunate that mine has been pretty ok. Insulting the sexual practices and pecadillos of others will win you zero favours.

        1. mai51 says:

          Hi Renarde, thanks for your comment on my reply….. I’m unable to reply to it from my OP, so will hitch a ride on yours.

          I don’t actually know if my ex was a sub or not. He took control in the bedroom, as far as vanilla sex went…. I just got the feeling, and it was something we vaguely discussed, that he’d like to be dominated. This could have just been for a one off scene though, and not a full power exchange. We actually went to play this scene one night, but I couldn’t do it. ( let’s just say the sane and consensual were not in evidence, and I knew it wasn’t going to work….. boy, I’ve learnt a lot!) This was the final piece of the disengagement. He felt exposed, ashamed and betrayed, and could not, for one minute, understand where I was coming from. I see now that this was a blessing. Back then, I was horrified, terrified and mortified!

          I will need your words of advice regarding the possibility the vast majority of male dorms are narcs….. I’m new to the scene, so am definitely treading lightly!

          What I have learnt is that there is a big difference between a true Alpha male and one that thinks he is……lol

          My ex loved pointing out that he was an Alpha! No buddy, you weren’t….. you were just a domineering bully.

          1. mai51 says:

            Ha ha…. I meant *heed* your words of advice….. although perhaps subconsciously I also meant need!

          2. Renarde says:

            Hey there.

            Where do I start with this one? The BDSM scene is so vast and my learning curve was very steep. I’m now satisfied that I know now what I need to keep me safe.

            As you say you are new, my advice would be to actually withdraw for a bit. I mean from EVERYTHING until you are fully cogniscent of the dangers posed by narcs. (Sorry, don;t know how long you have been reading HG’s work. Apologies if you feel you are confident.)

            I need to provide you with firm proof of my assertion but I’m struggling. Here are a few snippets that you may find useful.

            I used to run two events in London. Subsisters and Primals. I had great fun. As an organiser (some say leader – yeah, only a narc would say that) I was privy to information that most were not aware of. I also have close links with a very big London organisation. I cannot tell you how many times I was approached by big scene names trying to get me to go to their events. I usually refused as I saw it as predatory behaviour. One guy, in his 70s was a well known figure. He kept up his campaign to get me to go to his dying event for weeks. Remind us of a particular type of person? In this instance, I was running a mate there so I had already agreed to go but still he kept on. The look on his face was hilarious when he realised I wasn’t going to allow him to touch me. I had been forewarned that this man did not warm up properly. Fuck that for a game of soldiers, I thought!

            Then there was the other stuff. The secret facebook group listing all the known predators on the scene. Totally illegal to hold that info of course but one could argue vital for keeping the munches safe.

            It’s not the really obvious ones that should be worrying people as most competent organisers sniff them about before throwing them out. I could go on at length. I will regale you with two stories.

            There is a munch in London. I’ll spare blushes here. There was a guy. I’d already encountered him via PM as he attempted to work his ‘wonders’ on me. However, he did intrigue me so I read some of his erotica. It all revolved around committing sexual acts in public. I noped out of that.

            So six months go on and he tries to get into my event. Luckily, other organisers contacted the Primals event and told an utterly shocking story.

            Eye witnesses had come forward (mostly women) to report that this guy had performed oral sex on a drunk woman in the middle of a pub on a saturday afternoon! Apparently, a load of (male) attendees had watched this happen. When a woman tried to intervene, she was told to go away. This got said man banned from not only our event but most of London itself. What distressed me though was that the woman was also banned. She clearly needed help and I offered to bring her into the female only subsisters but that was turned down by my fellow female (narc) co-organiser. I feel for that poor women. I have been three sheets to the proverbial but Ive never gone that far.

            In fact, all of my dealings with ‘scene’ were kept on a strictly friendship level. I very rarely played in public and when I did it was with a partner.

            The second example is of an older guy who turned up at my local munch. Polite and self-effacing he was according to my mate. It was then singularly bizarre that he was also frequenting boards requesting that female subs come to his place and suck him off. Deluded cunt. He’s now running a munch in the home counties.

            Corruption and degradation is rife in the scene. I have heard stories from other munches that would make your hair curl. Terrible stories of female subs being assaulted, in public and in front of other scene members.

            The bent organisers will have a coterie of lieutenants and minions who do the dirty work. If a person wishes to speak up, they are ostracised. Ive seen it time and time again. The world over.

            Being a female sub, who are largely empathic, is a terribly dangerous thing to be if you are unaware. Fortunately, you’ve found the right place and in the nick of time I perceive.

            Perhaps finally, the most compelling evidence comes from the subs themselves. It is very VERY rare to find a female, empathic sub who has not been abused by a Dom at some point. Usual shizzle is abandonment (disengage), gaslighting and triangulation. Boring how often it comes up.

            Even WORSE are my kind who put on the boiler plate (profile) that they are new, empathic, have been abused (and in one case a lady I know states she has PTSD).

            This is all ammo. Writing a good BP is a skill in itself. My final (and best one) took me about four hours before I was happy with it. It was very funny (if I do say so myself). It revealed very little of me other than the fact I was a complete loon who hated Yorkshire. But a savvy loon at that. That profile killed a lot of the random shit I would get in my inbox.

            So the question becomes, do you embrace ‘scene’ or go solo? Given what Ive said, I bet youre thinking solo? That is the worst option by a county mile.

            Scene is always better because you can guarantee you will meet our brethren in there. Vast vast majority are unweaponised. They are a danger to themselves. They will be of pure heart and often horribly damaged. This will make them state all kind of strange things as they struggle to understand what has befallen them.

            My advice is this;

            1 – Find your local munch and home in on the females who have unusually expressive eyes. Friend them but realise they may well spew nonsense. Be very careful about the information you choose to share.

            2 – Assume every self-titled Dominant (male or female) is a narc. Then let them prove you otherwise. This is unfair, I know. But your safety is far more important than someones hurt feelings. Trust me on this.

            3 – So as not to discriminate be also very wary of females who are claiming the title ‘switch’. This is the sole reason why though I can be Dominant, I would never describe myself as a switch.

            4 – Be very very wary of the Organisers. They are likely to be unaware narcs. I’ll state the bleeding obvious in that the larger the organisation the more likely it is that they are a G. Probably Elites too.

            Every female, empathic sub needs a good solid support network. BTW, it is very very rare to find a female who is not a narc at organiser level. Most organisers are male. That should tell you something.

            I do not wish to pull you down. Being a submissive is a very fine thing indeed. But we must have our heads screwed on when we interact.

            You are in my thoughts today. I’m going to suggest that you consult HG on this one. He will know far better than I how to keep yourself safe. My knowledge is a hybrid of learnt knowledge here on NS and my own experiences. So, in essence, you are not dealing with a ‘true’ source. I recognise and own my own limitations and of course I am prejudiced. How could I not be?

            Why don’t you tell us a little more about your new Dom?

          3. mai51 says:

            Oh wow! So much information Renarde! Thank you!

            I really appreciate you having my back here, but I think my posts have been a bit misleading, or at least perhaps lacking information.

            The guy I’m currently seeing…. for several months, is, indeed a dom. However, our dynamic, at this stage, is more top and bottom. I’m not collared. There are no contacts.

            We didn’t find each other in the scene. In fact, he’s had no expectations AT ALL from me. It’s developed very organically, and there’s been so much support from him whilst I’m learning. He’s intuitive, and caring, and non judgemental. He’s supportive, and mentoring, and honestly quite amazing.

            I’ve been on HGs site for around 10 months. I’ve had a consultation. I’m 44, I’ve got my head screwed on. I’m happy and confident. I’ve had long term, committed and amazing relationships, save my 2 affairs with narcs.

            So, please don’t worry about me! I’ve never felt more happy or free or present. In.My.Life.


            I used to drink heavily….take recreational drugs….abuse sleeping meds…. have anxiety…..depression….

            I still enjoy wine occasionally but have not taken drugs, legal or not in 9 months! I have zero mental health issues. I work out every day. I’m telling you this to allow you to see how I am physically and mentally. (Compared to the wreck I was with my ex. )

            It makes my heart smile to know that you care Renarde. But this guy is legit. He is a true Dom and cares for my welfare in every way. I don’t know if it will become a true D/s relationship, but at the moment I am very in control and very, very happy.

            Mai x

          4. Renarde says:

            You’re very welcome, mai51! I think that might be the longest post I’ve ever written on here!

            Let me give you a bit of background because what you have written is very eerily similar to mine.

            I was diagnosed with a mixed anxiety/depressive disorder in 2015. This was a direct result of the tender ministrations of a so called ‘Dom’.

            I was a naive fool. I trusted him. I took him at his word and it cost me dear. As time went on, I met more and more of them, Narc Doms. They specialised in targeting extremely vulnerable and often confused women. The very best targets are women of our age and especially ones that had been in committed relationships that spanned the birth of the internet itself.

            I could witter on at great length and bother HG’s bandwidth ever so much so I’m going to fast forward to about a month or so ago. I was prescribed what used to be called prozac. I took it and hey presto! Things began to change. Not at first, it took a while. I began to get some distance and perspicacity on my own situation. Then I realised I didnt have a mixed anxiety depressive disorder, I have c-PTSD and PTSD from both PN and ex-H respectively.

            I can see clear signs in your post to me that you are disassociating. Now, how do I demonstrate to you that you are dissociating? I cannot. I struggle with this even now.

            Let me outline a thought experiment.

            How do you commit the perfect crime? You convince both the victim and society that no crime has taken place at all. How do you do this? You rely on the fact the victim has PTSD. This is why in one of HG’s articles, he writes about females who have ‘Daddy’ issues. Let feeding time commence!

            This is why I say, consult with HG. I have enough life experience now to know that I cannot be an impartial observer in this. My own PTSD blinds me. At least now I recognise it for what it is.

            I want to focus on the positives in your post. You say you are sober and are exercising. That’s fucking great! Well done you! I will state though that once we are diagnosed with anxiety/depression/PTSD it’s with us for life. The damage has been done.

            Society does not yet understand the trauma that Empaths have been put through. I have first hand experience of this. Weather it is dealing with a psychiatrist, the police, care agencies. Society itself is blind. Once we understand that and coupled with HG’s work, anything is now possible,

            So why do we not see what should be self evident? We all care about #metoo but in my experience, when I told my best friend about my rape at the hands of my ex-H she said to me, well why didnt you say so at the time? Tis a very very good question. I didnt because I couldnt. The awful truth was so big and so huge that my mind could not comprehend it. So it folded back in on itself to protect me. Cheers brain. I think.

            What in reality happened is that my brain created a ‘false construct’ of reality itself. One that I could function in. Except of course, you always have to pay the piper.

            When I was in those relationships, I had all manner of physical symptoms. I used to sleep. A lot. I put on weight. I had chest infections, throat infections. Not serious health complaints but annoying and troublesome all the same. When I exited that relationship I have not been ill at all. Ever. I find that curious.

            So, can I ask you to make a promise to yourself? The first sign of a power play or manipulation, come back on here and detail it and we will help. I promise you.

            I’m so glad I have made your heart smile. However, if I had a pound for every female emapth sub who said she had a ‘true dom’, I would be as rich as Croesus.

            Take care x,

          5. mai51 says:

            Thanks Renarde….again for such a caring post.

            I have to disagree about anxiety or depression being with us for life…. I am certainly prone to it, however, when it has appeared, or has reared its ugly head, it has always been circumstantial. Which I think is understandable in many of our situations. Of anyone’s situation.

            Once the stressors are removed, my anxiety disappears…. it’s gone. Completely.

            I love who I am. I’m proud of who I am. I see relationship hiccups to be an event that leads me to grow. I learn. I occasionally stumble.

            I appreciate you think I’m dissociating but you couldn’t be further from the truth. My cognitive dissonance was in full force with my ex. I obviously never realised it…. I didn’t even know there was such a thing. HG has taught me well!

            This relationship is real. It’s generous and kind. It’s respectful and respecting. It’s joyous and giving.

            I know I stated that he’s a *true* Dom, and I get what you mean about the fact that you need to be wary of men that label themselves in this way. I get that there are no *true* Doms, and if there was, by definition they would never label themselves so.

            My relationship is so much more than power exchange, bondage, submission.

            I know who he is. I see his darkness and light. I see my own…. very clearly. I am so immensely happy and content at the moment. I thought I would never feel that again…. it used to be a natural state for me before ex narc took it away.

            I am back to me. I am free. I am in control and you need not worry x

          6. Renarde says:

            Hey there!

            I do hope very much that your new Dom is not one. He may not be. It would be lovely to have a positive story. Just to reaffirm, I don’t think all Doms are narcs; far from it. That would be unrealistic.

            Yeah the anxiety thing. I was formally diagnosed in 2015 with it. Back then it was ‘mild’. Now it’s extreme and has to be very carefully managed otherwise it can become overwhelming. The right medication helped enormously. The roots of the anxiety go right back into early childhood. Kept on rearing it’s head and I did go to the Drs (even when say 13 or so but wasn’t able to articulate what was going on.

            I just wanted to touch on a really good point you made about cognitive dissonance. It is very similar to disassociation in my book but there are differences. (This is only my take on it.).

            CD, the brains’ inability to hold two conflicting views is of course vitally important to how a NPD sufferer functions. If it looks like a duck etcs it is a duck. This is how Ns hide. By being the ‘good guy’.

            But disassociation…. That’s when I have a memory recall of an event but the emotional contagion incased within the memory is simply not there. Like seeing an advert for your favourite perfume on TV but or course, you cannot smell the scent.

            Except part of your brain actually does, So say for example, I see an ad for say ‘Red Door’. I go, ‘Oh, an ad for Red Door, I like that!’. Then I will almost receive a ‘ghost image’ of the scent in my brain. I will also have triggered a load of other memories associated with that scent. Usually only very good or very bad.

            I’m rambling. Point is. You are here. You say you have been abused so indeed, you are in the correct place.

            Let us know how it goes, OK?

        2. madamexdomina says:

          Read my comment better because I didn’t say that ALL the narchs withdraw the sex, but that MY had done it at certain times.

          As regards the limits in BDSM, I have already answered in the previous intervention.

          Moreover I have not insulted anyone, but it is normal that
          always and only have vanilla and romantic sex
          sooner or later everyone gets tired.

          I’m not here to do anyone any favors or even to look for points, but only to describe my experience and my point of view on the topics of this blog.

          1. Claire says:

            Madamexdomina, I trust you don’t put equals sign between vanilla and romantic sex. I have experienced pure vanilla without any romantic component in few occasions ( thankfully, only few!) and very wild and romantic passionate madness in a relationship with another empath. We shared the same kinks so the vanilla was tastefully mixed 🙂

          2. mai51 says:

            Renarde, thank you again.

            I’ve never experienced disassociation. It sounds mentally confusing.

            From the many months I’ve spent reading this blog, and a few others, I’ve learnt the red flags that that indicate narcissism. I’m experiencing none of them with my new partner.

            This website is beyond any parallel with regards to narcissism, however, as HG is unable to empathise, he is also unable to give us advice on how to heal.

            I sometimes think he would be wise to create another blog where he teams up with an empathetic, and is then able to utilise the best of both worlds for victims and survivors.

            A little quid pro quo.

            It’s enormously interesting and enlightening to read things from a narc’s perspective, however, it would also be the same to read about what to do with this information from an Empath’s view.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            I can cognitively empathise but I refrain from doing so to avoid confusing people. If you achieve Zero Impact then you will naturally recover from the negative and unpleasant emotions which arise, that is the consequence of conquering emotional thinking.

          4. mai51 says:

            I appreciate that HG, but it’s too simplistic. There are serious mental, emotional and physical injuries that are caused by entangling with your kind. C-PTSD for example. These can’t be conquered by switching between ET and LT.

  34. BonnieLou says:

    It must have been my Grand Hoover because he managed to get me back to his apartment and knowing then that he wasn’t Bisexual (an error on his Facebook profile) I let myself go….and for doing so got “You’re beginning to piss me off”…and then the full blown silent treatment! (And a barrage of text abuse the ne t day) Was it the intimate act or because I took control?🤔 btw I didnt react to either the silent treatment or the abuse.

    1. Renarde says:


      Bit hazy on your details there (not sure on the relevance of his sexual status) but it sounds like he hoovered you back and you Dommed him? Then you got a AST and a malign? Which you rightly ignored.

      TBH, I’m really not sure on this one. I’d say a reaction to you taking control is more likely but then that begs the question why he allowed it in the first place (and he would).

      Or the other option of course is that he hoovered you back just to disengage again. So he was always going to do it and he took the situation for what it was. I think he knew that you wouldn’t react and therefore it was a quick ‘smash and grab’.

      Either way, the guy is a wankstain and an idiot. Women who can dominate are really quite rare. I’m sure you are smashing.

      1. BonnieLou says:

        Hi Renarde. Thank you so much for your reply. I would love to tell you the whole story but it’s a long one😔I’m not a dominant person, just confident. I thought he would like what I did. Big mistake! Too intimate.
        I think he was beginning to try to control me after the golden period, but that would never happen and I also think he was realising that as I wouldn’t jump when he demanded. The main thing is, I worked out what he is before it was too late and he didn’t break me! I remembered who I was…and the game changed💪

        1. Renarde says:

          Hey Bonnie.

          We all tell our stories here on NS. please do share I’d you feel it’s the right thing to do. We’ll all chime in! This is a safe space. Perhaps one of the safest on the net. (Tthat’s quite the oxymoron considering it’s run by a clinically diagnosed malignant psychopath).

          But it works. I’m proof of this.

          Here’s a secret pro-tip. A lot of men have secret fantasies about Domination. Sounds like the dude-bro wanted the same. Until it all became a bit too much for him. Pity.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Narcissistic psychopath.

          2. Renarde says:

            Hey, I thought the word malignant was in there? Have you been downgraded?

          3. HG Tudor says:


          4. Renarde says:

            My bad!

          5. Yolo says:

            Dang, a narc is what a narcissist is. Yes, it was Malignant Narc a few years back. No need to say HG correct me if I am wrong. He will.

          6. Renarde says:

            I think he may be about to!

          7. strongerwendyme says:

            Re: malignarc or word malignant-

            “…Who controls the past’ ran the Party slogan, ‘controls the future: who controls the present controls the past..”

            Poof! It’s gone!

          8. Renarde says:

            Don’t you dare get all Orwell on me!

          9. strongerwendyme says:

            Empaths have great memories (almost too good when it comes to their narc because they think about them all the time,) so when the revisitionist history and gaslighting inevitably occur it’s even more painful and mind fucking to the truth seeking empath.

            Empath: “But you said..(whatever it is that the narc said)….! I even have it in email.”

            Narc “No, I didn’t. You understood it incorrectly.”

            Some empaths choose to accept the revision to end the pain.

            IMHO, of course.

          10. HG Tudor says:

            Accurate observation SWM.

          11. Renarde says:

            I’d agree with that.

          12. BonnieLou says:

            HGs work has helped me figure out that he is a Mid Ranger. Love bombing, Future faking, Present Silent treatment (only the one! I will never ever let anyone do that to me again!) and finally triangulation with a new primary source, then disengage.

          13. Renarde says:

            What a twat. My sympathies.

            Would you like me to toss him off a balcony or are you able?

  35. SL MCD says:

    I will come back to read and exchange when I have scaled and balanced on my side. Things must be very precise on my end to be successful. Please standby when you are ready…

  36. Leslie says:

    As an additional thought, you have covered in depth many aspects of how to face down narcissism and escape. However, you have omitted the sexual aspect. You might consider adding this. There are several methods that work very effectively.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Omitted the sexual aspect in relation to what, narcissism? If you mean that, try this

    2. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

      Hi Leslie: Do you mean work effectively so that the Narcissist is not performing a job on a person? Or effectively so that the other person can enjoy having sex with a Narcissist, even if they knew the Narcissist is performing a job on them? I think most people are not aware that the experience for the Narcissist is clinical and for control and not for intimacy. I only heard of working girls and gigolos having sex in such a manner. I wish you would elaborate for me your meaning, because I find it interesting. Thank you.

  37. SL MCD says:

    Ok. As soon as I read to the nipple part I understood, this next step involves switching the global economy to a renewable energy resource. We doing what is equivalent to scaling a business now.

    Thank you I will read the rest as soon as I can. I’m juggling a lot of things right now so scale to to this awareness point and cast your line to the sphere of influence required, ground then balance as I do the same.


    1. Renarde says:

      OK. So I’ve read the above post by SL MCD three times now.

      May I nominate it for the most random post ever on NS?

    2. SL MCD: Are you using a language translator. Many do so, on this site. If so, it is not a good one, I am sorry to inform. There are better ones. If not, you are so cryptic that your meaning is lost. I did try. Twice now.

  38. KellyD says:

    The dr is daft… HG is omnipotent!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I agree, KD.

  39. Leslie says:

    Interesting. You sound exactly like my father.

    As FYIs….1) you can lose it, temporarily or permanently 2) it doesn’t work on every victim

    I know.