The Overwhelming Angel

THE OVERWHELMING ANGEL

The Overwhelming Angel appears as if heaven sent, arriving with apparent kindness, brimming with concern and bursting with cannot-do-enough-to-helpfulness.

The Overwhelming Angel is someone who appears to place you at the centre of their concerns, where they are always wanting to assist, that you have everything you need and I just wanted to make sure you are okay. No. are you really okay?

How might you spot The Overwhelming Angel? Here are many examples of The Overwhelming Angel in action. Remember, one or two of these instances is not determinative but if many of them resonate with you and/or form a pattern then there is cause for concern.

  • A telephone call or text first thing in the morning asking if you are okay when there is no reason to suppose that you are not okay. Particularly noteworthy if such a call or text comes after a similar call just as you went to sleep, so that all you have done in between the calls/messages is sleep.
  • Turning up when you are out with friends or family “on the off chance you needed something” or “just checking you are having a good time, as I was passing by.”
  • Repeated texting to ask “have you arrived okay?” when you are travelling somewhere. Particular noteworthy if you are travelling a short distance and/or travelling with a group.
  • Behaving like you are on a first date when you have been in a relationship for some time.
  • Turning up at your house very early in the morning when you have been on a night out, the night before with friends or family, either wanting to check that you had a good time or bringing you breakfast.
  • Insistence on accompanying you to medical appointments, especially ones which might involve a psychologist or therapist.
  • Appearing to be concerned about your diet but making decisions on your behalf “I didn’t buy any wine when I went shopping as I am worried that we (you) might be drinking too much.”, “Where are the Pringles? Oh I there them out, they are fattening.”
  • Providing unfounded warnings about individuals “You won’t have noticed this because you do not pick up on these things like I do, but Lisa´s husband Geoff pervs over you, so it might be a good idea if you do not got to Lisa´s tonight. I don’t want to cause any trouble, but I am just looking out for you.”
  • Commenting on your choice of clothing, “I think you look fantastic but do you really want to be wearing something that tight going into town, you know what some of the men can be like.” It is usually the case that the clothing is not especially tight either.
  • Overriding your transport choices “It will be easier if I drive you there, safer than getting a taxi or bus.” Particular noteworthy if you have already made a decision to use a form of transport and/or you are travelling with others.
  • Turning up to give you a lift home when you have not asked for one.
  • Making decisions for you concerting your health, “You sound a little bunged up to me, I think you have a cold coming on, I think it would be best if you stayed in tonight and let me look after you, okay?”
  • Appearing uninvited under the auspices of making you feel better when there is no problem to being with “Hi, I am on my way around to you with a care package because you sounded a little down earlier and it is my job to make sure you are happy, I will be there in 10 minutes, see you then.”
  • Limiting your opportunity to spend time with other people often done without consulting you “I told Bill and Jenny that you were feeling exhausted after a frantic week at work so I said we couldn’t make it tonight,” or “I rang your mum and said we would give this weekend a miss because you needed a rest.”
  • Increasingly frantic but apparently caring calls and messages if you have not responded, often laden with melodrama (“I have called three times and you have not answered, I am frantic with worry that something might have happened to you.” – you told the narcissist you are going next door for a glass of wine, not entered a war-torn part of Syria).

What distinguishes The Overwhelming Angel is that this type of narcissist may not rely on Pity Plays (“I am feeling down, why not stay with me tonight rather than going to the movies with your friends, please?”) or displays of Grandiosity (lots of gift buying, booking trips away, always paying) but it is all about this narcissists sole concern for your well-being, health and best interests.

The behaviour will be overly paternalistic demonstrating an “I know what is best for you” approach, you will be denied the ability to make decisions about your own life, where you go, what you do, who you see, what you choose to eat, wear, watch and so forth. Considerable subtlety will be demonstrated with the comments, they will generally lack force and manifest in ways such as “I am not saying you are overweight but you might want to cut down on the dining out for a while with people from work” or “You probably have not noticed but you have been rather tetchy as of late, you are running yourself down and you do not want to make yourself ill do you. I think it would be best if you have a weekend at home, yes?”

The Overwhelming Angel wants to ensure that you are isolated from anything which enables you to assert who you are, detached and removed from anything that defines you as a separate entity from the narcissist. The Overwhelming Angel like any narcissist sees you as an extension of him or herself and in this instance the extension is based upon an overriding desire to look after you.

Let’s revisit the behaviours above and decipher them further.

  • A telephone call or text first thing in the morning asking if you are okay when there is no reason to suppose that you are not okay. Particularly noteworthy if such a call or text comes after a similar call just as you went to sleep, so that all you have done in between the calls/messages is sleep. (Lack of boundary recognition by invading and regulating your time before sleep and time on waking (possibly being woken by the “caring call”. Sense of entitlement. The narcissist wants to make sure you are alone.)
  • Turning up when you are out with friends or family “on the off chance you needed something” or “just checking you are having a good time, as I was passing by.” (Lack of boundary recognition, sense of entitlement and wanting to ascertain who you are with to gauge any potential threats.)
  • Repeated texting to ask “have you arrived okay?” when you are travelling somewhere. Particular noteworthy if you are travelling a short distance and/or travelling with a group. (Keeping tabs on your movement)
  • Behaving like you are on a first date when you have been in a relationship for some time. (Extension of love bombing and lack of awareness as to how a normal, healthy relationship progresses because the narcissist has never been in one)
  • Turning up at your house very early in the morning when you have been on a night out, the night before with friends or family, either wanting to check that you had a good time or bringing you breakfast. (Wanting to see if someone else is there, facade of kindness, lack of boundary recognition by turning up very early when you have been on the razzle the night before and therefore wanting to sleep your hangover off)
  • Insistence on accompanying you to medical appointments, especially ones which might involve a psychologist or therapist, preventing you from attending medical appointments (where you have organised one to dispute the fact the narcissist says there is something wrong with you) or insisting you attend a medical appointment (just to check everything is okay when the narcissist has organised it)(Concern about outside interference, opportunity to contest the option of a medical expert which manifests grandiosity and haughtiness, opportunity to harness medical opinion to declare “told you so” under the banner of apparently caring)
  • Appearing to be concerned about your diet but making decisions on your behalf “I didn’t buy any wine when I went shopping as I am worried that we (you) might be drinking too much.”, “Where are the Pringles? Oh I threw them out, they are fattening.” (Belittlement, lack of boundary recognition,  acquisition of property)
  • Providing unfounded warnings about individuals “You won’t have noticed this because you do not pick up on these things like I do, but Lisa´s husband Geoff pervs over you, so it might be a good idea if you do not got to Lisa´s tonight. I don’t want to cause any trouble, but I am just looking out for you.” (Lies, Gaslighting, Smearing)
  • Commenting on your choice of clothing, “I think you look fantastic but do you really want to be wearing something that tight going into town, you know what some of the men can be like and you don’t want to end up a victim of something horrible happening.” It is usually the case that the clothing is not especially tight either. (Blameshifting, Insult)
  • Overriding your transport choices “It will be easier if I drive you there, safer than getting a taxi or bus.” Particular noteworthy if you have already made a decision to use a form of transport and/or you are travelling with others. (Lack of boundary recognition)
  • Turning up to give you a lift home when you have not asked for one. (Sense of entitlement)
  • Making decisions for you concerting your health, “You sound a little bunged up to me, I think you have a cold coming on, I think it would be best if you stayed in tonight and let me look after you, okay?” (Sense of entitlement, Isolating)
  • Appearing uninvited under the auspices of making you feel better when there is no problem to being with “Hi, I am on my way around to you with a care package because you sounded a little down earlier and it is my job to make sure you are happy, I will be there in 10 minutes, see you then.” (Sense of entitlement, lack of boundary recognition)
  • Limiting your opportunity to spend time with other people often done without consulting you “I told Bill and Jenny that you were feeling exhausted after a frantic week at work so I said we couldn’t make it tonight,” or “I rang your mum and said we would give this weekend a miss because you needed a rest.” (Isolating)
  • Increasingly frantic but apparently caring calls and messages if you have not responded, often laden with melodrama (“I have called three times and you have not answered, I am frantic with worry that something might have happened to you.” – you told the narcissist you are going next door for a glass of wine, not entered a war-torn part of Syria). (Lack of boundary recognition)

In all of these behaviours there will be facade management as the narcissist actually believes that he or she is a good, kind and caring person and cannot see that the various strands of narcissistic behaviour amount to two things. The gathering of fuel from you and of course control. Control over where you go, who you see, what you eat, where you dance, where you shop, who you spend time with and for how long.

Owing to the ensnarement that you have, either as IPPS, IPSS and also this can affect NISSs, your emotional thinking is likely to be high and therefore much of this behaviour goes unnoticed for what it is – control. Instead you are likely to think that this person is ever so sweet, very caring, sensitive, thoughtful and considerate. Even if you notice the red flags, your emotional thinking will seek to obscure it by making you feel guilty if you protest, reject or disagree with this behaviour.

This type of behaviour is seen most of all with Middle Mid Range, Lower Mid Range Narcissists and occasionally by Middle Lesser Narcissists.

If you make some kind of stand against the apparent kindness, thoughtfulness and considerate behaviour, you will experience behaviours such as these :-

  • Sulking (Present Silent Treatment)
  • Moving to Pity Plays (but not starting with them) (“I am only trying to look after you, there’s not need to be horrible.”)
  • Application of Guilt (“I do all of this for you and you still insist on going out in this weather as well and risk getting ill?”
  • Triangulation (“I wonder what your mother would think if she knew you were going out for the third time this week.”)
  • Belittlement (“Wearing that does you no favours at all and you will get unwelcome attention.”)
  • Character Assassination (“No wonder people say you are a slut when you dress like that. I wish you wouldn’t make it so easy for them.”)
  • Haughtiness (“Oh forget it, I am just trying to look after you, but you do what you want as usual, I’m sick of caring. Fuck you.”)
  • Absent Silent Treatment.
  • Threat (“You’d better stay here otherwise……”)
  • Digging Up The Past (“Look what happened last time you went against my advice, (insert once apparently buried one-off mishap)”)
  • Revision of History (“Last time you did this, you know what happened don’t you? (Insert adverse fabricated event).

The manipulation that is the false care and concern evidence by The Overwhelming Angel will shift to a different form of manipulation in order to assert control as a consequence of your stand which will either be wounding or more usually Challenge Fuel.

The Overwhelming Angel strives (instinctively) to overwhelm you.

You may be overwhelmed by this kindness.

That is precisely what the narcissism wants.

When you are overwhelmed, you are controlled.

 

 

 

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331 Comments

  1. OH!! My mother does a LOT of these things.

    She teams it with criticism though, and comparing me to other people, and insults, hypocrisy, and general other types of controlling behaviour but all with the pretence of being super caring.

    I think she really believes that she actually is super caring. She’s definitely not aware of her narcissistic tendencies.

    1. PolicyofTruth,
      1) Does she give you silent treatments?
      2) Do you get a sense she can/does feel genuine empathy at times? (not empathy for “show” or only because it affects her personally)

      1. 1) Yes. When I’m not agreeing with her she goes silent on messages for a few days. When I was a child she used to go and shut herself in the bathroom and lock the door in order to dish out the silent treatment.

        2) I don’t know. I used to think she was genuinely capable of empathy but then again I’m an only child, and I was raised just by her, not my dad, so she was basically my world. To believe that your mother is not capable of empathy is a hard pill to swallow.

        As an adult now though I’ve seen more evidence to suggest that her empathy is for show. I nearly died giving birth to my second child due to complications. My mother and husband were in the room at the time, and the midwife told my husband to hold my hand as “you could lose them both” (he told me afterwards that was said. I wasn’t aware at the time.) My mother meanwhile just calmly continued to read her newspaper, and claimed later she didn’t know things were serious, which is a ridiculous statement to make as there was a team of about 12 doctors and midwives who had rushed in.

        When my son (same child as in the above situation actually! Unlucky kid! Totally unrelated scenario though,) nearly died a couple of years ago, my mother rushed around weeping, wailing, and lamenting, throwing holy water all over his hospital bed and dragging the priest in to see him and making so much of a raucous fuss that we had to ask her to leave as she was upsetting us more.
        Then she made a big fuss about how she clearly loved him more than we did, and how we didn’t appreciate what she was doing for him.
        It was more about her than it was our son!

        So I’m starting to think any empathy is just put on… however I love her anyway because, ya know, I just do. Despite the fact that she drives me wappy.

        I can’t really apply the No Contact rule in her case.
        I could if ex-narc-IP showed his face again, but to my mother, no, because she’s my mother I just have to put up with her nonsense.

        1. PolicyofTruth,
          Oh my goodness, with the birth of your son. I got tears, imagining how your husband felt during what was supposed to be a most joyful time for you both…but here you are today, so the spirit is mighty in you! I’m so glad your son is okay too…he must have Mom’s fighting spirit. 😊 As for your own Mom’s behavior during that, the drama is strong in that one, yes?…sounds like she could have given Shirley MacLaine a run for her money in the “Terms of Endearment” hospital scene…wowser, lady. 😉

          I understand completely that you love your Mom, despite her wacky ways/hurtful behaviors. Loving people love, and that’s to your credit as a human being. ❤ It’s good that you’re also aware that she looks suspiciously narcissistic, as that will help you with setting boundaries & thinking of it in a way where you’re not over-expecting from her, nor putting unrealistic pressure (or blame) on yourself. I’m thinking you push the “IGNORE” button a lot.

          My Mom doesn’t have NPD, but she’s highly narcissistic in ways, so I understand how hard it is to even SEE certain attitudes/behaviors in your own Mom. I’ve never gotten a silent treatment from mine. COULD I get one…please, oh pretty please?😂 (Just kidding, Mommy…I think.🤔)

  2. Showing up with a celebrity friend (just picked up from the airport) so she could freshen her face (unannounced), then asking me & my daughter to dinner… giving us a ten minute time frame to get ready… When moments before (while he was en route to pick her up at the airport) we were in a heated discussion on the phone about his inability to let me know about things before they happen. Oh I thought we had this planned… you knew this was the story. On and on… we all know

  3. Empath007 yes he kept it up for a year – every single day and night and throughout the day while at work. Yes I total enjoyed it and YES I did assume he cared. It’s very addictive! When my devaluation happened I did not know it! We were literally in mid conversation when it all ended – I believe he was married and lied to me about it! Nothing different b/w us – he just disappeared.

    My shame is overbearing b/c now I feel like a whore or a home wrecker – I keep thinking all he had to do was be truthful upfront and none of this would be happening.

    I blocked him from all avenues so I know I’m okay as he’s obviously a coward and wouldn’t dare come to my home.

    It took me a couple of months to get over NOT receiving his texts as they were always sweet and endearing as he was ALWAYS kind and sweet to me – he had strange habits I’d never seen in a person before and told him that but he’d just laugh it off.

    I try to find comfort in the fact that my devaluation was unnoticed by me as I’ve read some awful stories – trying to find good things to be thankful for – silly I know.

    My saving grace in all of this is HG – ironic given he’s a narc but it’s true. His work is always on on my phone and I always read his blog. He gave me back my inner strength and the knowledge he gives me daily is bringing HOPE back into my life so YES he is like my blessing. Silly again I know but it is what it is.

    Would you mind sharing your story? Was it extremely hard for you and did it take long for you to recover?

    You have a wonderful night and look forward to chatting with you again!!!
    HUGS!!

    1. HI Denise, I apologize I did not see this until now.

      I could tell instantly when I was being devalued, mine would easily switch gears sometimes within minutes.

      Ultimately I am the one who ended it (although you know that’s not his version of the events lol) but he can have his version I really don’t care about that anymore. I ended it because I got a confession out of him about who he truly was, he admitted it to me when I confronted him with the fact he was a narcissist. One and only time he was truly honest with me…. and boy did he regret that I’m sure (if he can even feel regret).

      Yes, recovery has been extremely hard. I have been No Contact for over a year now (15 months to be exact) and I STILL struggle daily with what happened and still think about him everyday. The only part I miss is the intimacy. We had what I believed to be a strong physical connection and I have not slept with anyone since, and its been difficult mostly in that regard. I do not miss HIM per-say… just the fake intimacy he offered. I am also still within a sphere of influence as we work for the same company (thankfully was able to transfer offices about 18 months ago) so while I do not work directly with him anymore, his friends still come to gather information on his behalf and I have had to avoid a lot of events to not run into him. I do however have to see him in a few months for a conference I can absolutely NOT avoid.

      For me I think having this Sphere of Influence open is definitely the biggest factor in me not being able to recover properly. When HG says to cut ourselves out to create true N/C there is a reason for all of that. HG is correct. I have been with my company for a while though, and I have a great deal of the narcissistic trait of pride and I absolutely did not want to be bullied out of my position. I want to leave on MY terms, no one else. I am now understanding this may not be possible…. as is the nature of the beast of being romantically involved at the office.

      I made the “mistake” (from my narcs POV) of A) getting a promotion when he was scheming to get me fired at work and B) Being the one to cut him out and go No Contact. On top of that I have not discussed what happened with anyone. C) Getting the confession out of him.

      So… needless to say from his perspective there is a massive score to be settled. I am starting to feel like I don’t need to be around anymore to put up with any of his BS… he can fight his battle alone because by the time he can actually get back at me I will have quit and dropped off the face of the earth… leaving no opportunity for him to “get me” …. This is if I can time it right… not sure if I can pull it off but I will sure try… luckily to HG I am on to him. Hopefully this gives me the leg up on him. But doubtful as I couldn’t keep up with his manipulations if I tried.

      Needless to say… I am still young and learning these lessons early in life… and lets sure hope this is my first and LAST narc I ever date… because I never want to go through something this dam dramatic again.

      Sorry that was so bloody long! I got on a role lol.

      have a great day!

  4. This had me thinking a lot of my grandmother. I think she mightve been this kind of narcissist. I hate saying it bc she did many acts of kindness and helped so many but there was always an underlying benefit and that was control. I love my grandmother very deeply but i am aware she had npd among other issues. This write up fits her very closely. She had taken a family member and nursed them which i have a ton of respect for but im not so sure it was solely for their benefit alone. I hope im wrong and if i am im ashamed to speculate this but i do think she enjoyed being in control of their health and being in charge.
    She was always the one in charge. The one who brought family together. The one who helped in the prison to keep inmates on the right path and the one who picked up the pieces when my mothers life fell apart. She was the one. Im thankful but i do wonder her motives if they stemmed from npd.
    She would always take charge and on several occasions would tell me what i was going to do and many of those times id say no this is what ive decided to do. She was relentless and eventually gave up and would say how stubborn i was then give me a silent treatment and make me feel guilty. A few times she got in my face and was aggressive but i held calm and didnt sway which really infuriated her. To be honest she scared me sometimes bc she could be loud and aggressive. She was always trying to be the one helping people but also taking charge of their lives for them.
    She did this with her sisters son during a rocky time in his life. Instead of letting her sister handle it and grow she stepped in and completely took over.
    I loved her dearly but im certain she had npd and altho she did help many i do think there were ulterior motives which i dont think she was even aware of herself.

      1. I dated a MMR overwhelming angel for about 14 months and during that time I had around 8 flat tires. I am 30 years old and have only ever had 10 flat tires since turning 16 and 8 of the 10 were during the time I dated my ex. Hg, do you think my ex was causing these flat tires so he could “help” me?

  5. HG—this type of person is not resonating with me as anyone I’ve encountered, however, the examples of behavior are valuable. Calling out the various manipulations so clearly in what before would have seemed fairly innocuous is a win for all of us. It’s a lot of my focus and I’m seeing so much more almost daily and putting puzzles together.

  6. MAKE SURE I AM ALONE and KEEPING TABS ON ME! CONTROL!!! EVERY morning and EVERY night he sent me a text – EVERY SINGLE DAY FOR A YEAR! Hell I thought it was because he “cared” – he made himself the first thing I thought of every morning and last thing every night!

    SPOT ON regarding the phone calls too! Again I thought it was because he “cared”! He even called me at lunchtime – “Did you eat?” “What was for lunch today – well you had Mexican 2 days ago”!!!

    HG I totally see the CONTROL he had now and I let him w/foolish, delusional emotional thinking.

    Oh my God…I was such a blind fool!!!!!! Hell I would have disengaged from me too!

      1. Pretty fascinating material HG, would love to see Karla Homolka under the Tudorscope alrhonits obv shes a narc – but it’s rare we see a greater female narc in everyday life . She was a vet assistant – and made her way to Canadian top serial killer history

        1. Were they working together as a team WAF?

          Apparently, when it is a team there is usually one who is the aggressor and the other is more of a follower…

          I will google that, that’s not common I’m sure to see a married couple at it together.

          1. Empath007
            Oh the Bernardo/Holmolka dynamic is quite a story. Just a warning that it’s very dark and I know that you’ve been having difficulty with that lately so be prepared.

          2. Thank you NA. I appreciate that warning and will take your advice and wait to look it up at a later time.

          3. Paul was the Scarborough Rapist before he met Karla and continued to rape . She bought into it and would select the victims and prepare (get drugs from her vet clinic she worked at)
            She even sacrificed her youngest sister to him – got her drunk and drugged up not once but twice for him to rape. The second time the sister choked unconscious on vomit and DIED.
            They then kidnapped, raped, tortured and eventually killed two more teens.
            Karla got a mere 15 yr sentence bc she assisted in Paul’s conviction . She claimed battered wife syndrome.shes out now and has her own children .
            Paul is still in jail.
            Paul was I THINK, a mid ranger. Karla was defin a Greater. High IQ and able to play to the particular audience she was dealing with.
            It’s unknown who actually killed the girls they kidnapped, they both blame each other.
            He was more of a rapist- raped like 15 women and girls and then let them go after- so it’s suspected Karla was the one to introduce murder as to dispose of the evidence rather than let them go, and since more faking evidence of HER being waaaaay more involved came out AFTER her plea deal- she was never held accountable.
            They were known as the Ken and Barbie killers too bc they were good looking, blonde, late 20’s when it all went down.
            It’s a fascinating case .

          4. empath007, I apologize in advance because this is unrelated to this discussion but if you look up Karla Homolka’s pictures and look at her facial expressions, her eyes even when she’s smiling looks dead. Hers is worse than the other narcs that I am looking at but it’s pretty similar to my younger stepdaughter than I’m pegging as a middle Lesser or lower MR. But I agree with you that some narcissists are very expressive however when I see someone smile and the eyes are like that, I’m starting to see it as a red flag personally. My older SD is a middle MR and her eyes have more life and also because she modeled so she is used to posing but when you meet her in person her eyes tend to not have a lot of life and looks bored. It only starts to have energy when you flatter her with praises or when you give her challenge fuel.

        2. WokeAF, That’s too bad that Karla now has kids. When someone commits crimes like that, part of the sentencing should be sterilization. Those kids will be abused.

  7. Wow. That was exhausting to read much less experience. The interpretations given were great for those who would feel guilt in thinking that they should not question such “kindness” lest they appear negative or ungrateful. Another excellent depiction HG.

    1. Totally! And that’s me NA. I would see it as kindness. So if my narc would have used this tactic he would have been far more successful…. guess his 3 years of studying me from a distance didn’t work out as well as he figured 🤣

      1. empath007, my half sister was like this. I think that it’s ok if you don’t realize at first what they are doing but once you hear them tell you something like, “ I did this for you or after all that I did for you or would I do this for you or buy you this if I have contempt for you?” would be a signal to stop trusting them and start avoiding them. Also the difference with the help they give is that the help tend to disrespect boundaries and are pushed upon you even if you don’t need it and want it. They are more for control over you. So you can test them by refusing the help or gift and if you see them have a difficulty with your refusal and kept pushing it to you, that is a huge red flag. I did it to my sister and I kept refusing despite of her continuous effort to convince me so she still bought it without me knowing and on our way home she handed it to me. It is a huge red flag.

        1. Good advice! The normal I was in a long term relationship with was very passive aggressive and never helped me at all… so if the narc would have taken this approach I would have seen it as a total relief… but I can definitely see how that would unravel over time especially when the help comes at a very high cost (aka ones sanity)

          That’s good advice to test it. And I will keep that in mind when I feel ready to date again.

          1. That’s a good point empath007. Normals are not perfect by all means and empaths aren’t as well. Sometimes we can be selfish or lazy as well and not take initiatives to help. So when we encounter a narc that is very ‘proactive’ at helping us or directing stuff, it can be nice but eventually it will get exhausting and suffocating. I think the difference between Normals and empaths vs narcissists is that if our help is refused, maybe we may feel a little rejection or embarrassment or maybe relief because we don’t have to do anything but at least we offered help and we are able to get over it and not push anymore. My mom would give people a hard time if they don’t take what she was giving them. She wouldn’t stop trying to convince. And it’s the same with my sister, she was personally offended by the refusal. She also got really offended when I never used the gift (that she forced upon me), constantly asking me if I already tried it and has that wounded look when I answered in a disinterested way that I haven’t.

      1. HG Tudor. If i did no know how much damages your kind can do….i will said that you are awesome and so much more, but i cannot. You are a great and wonderful teacher. You know your subject pretty well. Anyways, i m been reading you for months, so i know where i stand right now. Im discarded, in the middle of divorcing him and im pretty sure what he is. He have a new appliance(a friend of mine) and im ok. I just want to know how to kill one and for all this feeling of happiness when he calls me or touch me(casuals, hands shake., or hug).? How to stop playing his smile on my mind? And this feeling of want to allowed him to stay even though i know hus way and he is evil. Please, how?

    1. My mid range narcissist tried this approach after a discard. When he finally understood i am no longer avaible and interested in him as a man because I see him as a bad guy he tried to maintain his control over me as a parental figure “dont talk to that man”, “i want only good for you, do this, dont do that, i care for you”. Eventually I went no contact

  8. Very interesting. I think my narc used this approach with the only IPPS he ever had (the rest of us have been IPSSs)

    Sadly though… has he acted like this at the beginning… and contiuned it for quite some time.:. I probably would have responded extremly well to it and he would have been more successful. Over time it would have started to unravel but I’m ok with suffocating relationships a bit.

    So thanks for the new knowledge once again HG! I will be on the look out when I date again!

    1. Empath007 it felt heavenly to have all that at that time – now I feel totally foolish. 😖😖 I thought he cared!!!

      1. I would think the same thing. Not sure if it’s because I have co dependant tendencies? But I think this type of behaviour I would have had a harder Time figuring out.

        Is devaluation playing out the same as any other narc with the overwhelming angels HG?

      2. Was your devaluation more subtle Denise? Was your narc able to keep up this kind of act for a long time? I’m interested in the dynamic if you don’t mind sharing?

  9. This article is excellent. They are just like you describe them.

    They can be so subtle, especially at the beginning. They appear to be so sweet and caring and they hide their abuse by saying they are “soooo worried and concerned…”.

    They want to tell me how to live my life, what decisions to make although they cannot even cope with their own problems. I find them extremely intrusive. I feel uncomfortable in their presence. They exhaust me.

    When I reject their ‘well-meant help’ or ‘advice’, they punish me, even though I had never asked for it in the first place. They usually give me the ST and smear me to others.

    I was not aware that they wanted to overwhelm me.

    “When you are overwhelmed, you are controlled.”
    Now it makes sense.

    I appreciate all your new articles a lot, HG. You work really hard. They are full of valuable information to help us recognize narcissists better and faster than before! I have not seen this information anywhere else.

  10. Dearest HG: May I request that you kindly make a Podcast on this type of Narcissist. This kind ensnares a lot of people, not just of an intimate nature. I was ensnared by one of this type for years. A female. Always bringing me delicious coffee in the mornings in the apartment complex where I lived. I slowly became ensnared and I did not know what was happening. She needed help with her money and paperwork and other matters, and did not trust other people, including her bank, which I loved doing for her with her thanks being my only appreciated reward. And I would constantly tell her this, But, she of course could not realize this and of course her narcissism felt the need to ensnare me/bind me, I understand from Narcsite. It was awful for me, HG. She was always looking out for me, and I would constantly tell her I am fine, and do not need help, or coffee or food or advice about mutual people that we know. I did not know what all of her odd actions were about. And the isolation from other people over time. I always knew she smeared, but finally someone told me that she smeared me all the time. I finally broke loose. Everything about this past friendship is crashing in on me, after this article, with great clarity now. Wow! Once, I thought that maybe she was a lesbian, and I am not one, but that did not pan out either in her behavior and so I wondered and I wondered, What Is This? How Do I Get Out Of This? This type, The Overwhelming Angel, is thriving under the radar in the Narcissism community discussions. I would have gladly helped her without her activity to ensnare. If only I had known what I was dealing with, I could have continued to help her and not have apprehension and trauma and drama brought about in my life because of the mystery of what exactly was going on with her, as she called me the best friend she ever had, while behind my back she isolated me from others in the apt. complex, and smeared me and wanted me to be destroyed before others, since she desired my help in financial matters,etc., and she hated that she could trust me, ironically, and she could not trust the men she ensnared, for whatever reasons. Please Expose!

  11. “The behaviour will be overly paternalistic demonstrating an “I know what is best for you” approach, you will be denied the ability to make decisions about your own life, where you go, what you do, who you see, what you choose to eat, wear, watch and so forth.”

    This sounds exactly like my ex-husband! AND my ex-mother in law’s relationship with my ex-husband! Good fucking grief.

    Of course I just labeled him as being “loving and overprotective”. Later on that sentiment changed to “he’s trying to control my life”. Never did I once stop and think he was a narc. None of the other boxes really ticked it off for me until I read this article.

    I am now divorced from him then…along came Piano Boy. Piano Boy never acted like that. But I was Shelf IPSS not IPPS. Now you have me wondering if THIS is how he is with IPPS! And why she is STILL WITH HIM even though she caught him cheating!

    I cannot believe after being here almost 2 years I have come the realization that I traded one pile of crap for another. I went from an overwhelming angel to an angel with a dirty face!

    I feel like there is no hope for me. I am just waiting for that third fucking whatever the fuck he is to come along and continue this trilogy of narc fuckery.

    I also spent the last hour crying over Piano Boy ignoring me and then I read this article. Thanks a lot HG. (said with sarcasm but also appreciation even though it is cloaked in sarcasm and a high emotional state of mind).

    1. SF,
      The fact that you now have another “missing piece” to the narcissistic world can be VERY hopeful…your epiphany brings increased awareness. It is in your power to take action (<there's where your hope lies), to protect yourself & steer clear of these types.❤

    2. It’s funny how it becomes obvious who the narcs in our past were. The biggest for me was the DUH! Moment that it hit my kids dad is one. I’ve known him for 24 years so the IDEA I had of who he is took a while to break down.
      It all becomes so obvious

  12. HG, you are a super genius. You know narcs like no one else. I have had three narcissists in my life, all very different, and in your various works you perfectly describe every one of them. This article describes the man who stalked me for a year. It could literally be about him specifically. We were friends and he wanted more, but I wasn’t interested. He was set on proving to me that he was better than any other man, and he said “one day you will realize what I am worth”. He the did all of these things that I recognized as invasive and controlling. He insisted he was just loving me and I was being unreasonable. He said “you mistake caring for controlling.” I can feel my blood pressure rising as I write this. God I hate him so much (does hating someone mean I can’t be an empath?). He finally stopped when I got the police involved, so I really hope that’s the end of it.

    1. You are welcome.

      Review your no contact regime to ensure it is as tight as possible, that is what reduces the risk of hoovers. Do not rely on hope.

  13. HG
    Great article!
    Thank you!

    You gave me the creeped-out feeling and smothered feeling, and the low grade nausea that such people have provoked in me in the past.
    Blech!
    I couldn’t get away fast enough.

    If you want space, they leave 20 voicemail messages on your phone in one day.
    They buy you groceries and leave them on your doorstep.
    They take it on themselves to collect your mail when you’re away, despite the fact that you’ve made other arrangements.
    They try to lend you money, or pay for things “oh, you can pay me back later…”, to get you under financial obligation.
    They will ring places and make appointments on your behalf when they have no business doing so.

    They will go and talk to someone on your behalf without your knowledge or authorisation, totally misrepresenting themselves and your relationship/acquaintance.

    If you stay with them on holiday, you can never relax or sleep in, or do anything by yourself. They wake you up early, and plan your activities.
    You are obligated to fit in with their schedule.
    Your ‘holiday’ exhausts you, and you need a holiday by yourself to decompress from the strain of their company.

    If you’re single, they constantly try to push you and their bachelor son together, despite there being zero attraction between you.

    If you’re out at a work do, and you’re googling something, they’ll try to grab/commandeer your phone under the pretext of “helping” you “oh, you’re holding a drink, and your clutch…you can’t type as fast as I can…”

    It’s like being smothered by an octopus, and pulled down so that you drown.
    It feels like a drowning.

  14. Yay, new post!

    This reminds me a little of a family member. She really likes to get all up in your business and be ‘helpful’ at times when you really don’t want or need it. But rather than sounding concerned, her tone is usually annoyance, as if she can’t believe you are bothering her with need of her help. And she will hold onto the fact that she helped you for years and use it to control even more. I have some stories about it that I’d love to share here, they are kind of funny to me now, but I don’t know if I feel quite comfortable as they are pretty specific details. I may set up a different account to share.

      1. Well I just changed it so it didn’t have my real name or an image that I had drawn, just in case. Sorry to disappoint, I am not a real fox, or even a furry. lol

        1. The fox is one of my fav creatures…right up there with horses & dolphins. In the world of empaths, I feel like the fox would be half Magnet/half Carrier…the dolphin would be part Geyser/part Savior…and the horse would be a mix of all. I’m actually only goofily speculating on life’s beautiful creatures so that the Resident Narcissist doesn’t get irritated that I’m straying OT.

          Anyway, beautiful fox pic.🦊

          1. Well I like your speculations.I love horses and dolphins too. :) It actually made me go reread the Carrier Empath article, so maybe he will forgive us for straying.

          2. Thank you, Fox🦊~most kind of you.💙

            I forgot to mention the elephant…those old-soul, super intelligent, engaging, amazing creatures.🐘 I especially love them too…what Empath(s) do you think they would be?🤔

          3. Elephants feel like Carrier to me!!
            This is fun
            Ok what’s Lion, Dog, Cat, Monkey?
            Lion seems to me a Magnet
            Dog codependent lol and contagion
            Cat is defin a Super – but super what? Lol maybe Cat is narc
            Monkey seems like Geyser to me

          4. WAF,
            I love your analysis! Expressive, active monkeys (not including throwing “stuff”) are for sure Geysers. 🙈🙉🙊 I’m calling the cat a SE & the Black Widow a narc🕷 I love powerful lions – but some of the males’ behaviors are a pretty narcy (mating & disengaging all over the place/guarding “their” pride/best food must be brought to them/fighting other males to the death, for territorial reasons).

            Ok, Caroline must stop playing.🥺 Moving Day 2 awaits.😱

          5. Hmm, well I think elephants are intelligent enough to have a very wide variety of types. I would not even think they are all empaths necessarily, though most probably would be.

          6. I love lions. The female lion is very independent. And she will personally rip you to pieces. However, when she does find the need to call the male lion for help, and when he does heed her call, you may as well pay your final respects to whomever or whatever you believe in. You essentially have no chance to make it out alive.

          7. PSE~Yes, the lionesses are fierce kitty cats in their own right.💛 …and I have a particular fondness for courageous/loyal males of any species. 💛

          8. I’m enjoying this conversation. 😊. I like the expressive monkey as Geyser comparison. Dogs also make me think of Geysers being very expressive as well, you can always tell how they feel. As for narcissists, I tend to think of something beautiful but poisonous or dangerous like a lion fish or a lion. You just want to touch them but you can’t. Horses make me think of Carriers. Magnets make me think of a swan or a pink flamingo. 😊

          9. MP,
            Most horses make me think of Carriers too…the racers make me think of Magnets + Carriers. I ❤ horses…so sensitive, so powerful, so exquisitely beautiful. Having the privilege of riding a horse has always made me feel especially free.🐎 I especially love to witness horses in the wild.

          10. Caroline is fine, I love horses too but I have not had the privilege of learning to ride until in my late twenties so I only know the basics and can only control a well-broken or old horse. My five year old started taking lessons last summer and it’s so fun watching him have the biggest smile with his chin up while riding the horse. It’s amazing how much confidence and happiness it can give to people. I agree with everything that you said about them. And I can totally see the Thoroughbreds as part Magnet part Carrier, they are so beautiful and dignified with their long and slender but athletic figures. They are also champions. When I think of a Super Empath Carrier I imagine an Arabian horse because of its spunk, fire and ability to survive in hostile situations such as the desert. Standard Carriers make me think of Quarter and Paint horses and Condependent Carriers I imagine to be the Gaited breeds. Haha I’m obviously overthinking this. 😂.

            For Saviors I imagine dogs for the reasons that NarcAngel said. Super Empaths make me think of German Shepherds (my favorite breed). I had one that died last year and we loved him and even my five yr old boy cried. He was a beautiful white German Shepherd and he was so amazingly gentle with the kids that he tolerated everything that they did to him that would have made other dogs snap although I made sure they did not keep touching him in those ways. Before I had kids we used to go jogging together around a lake nearby our house and whenever we encountered someone on the trail he would go in front of me in a protective way although he didn’t threaten anybody. I have never had anybody be so protective and obsessed with me as that dog. He was so beautiful and dignified as well. Dogs and horses are both indeed amazing animals and I can totally imagine them being empaths.

          11. Aw, I’m sorry about the loss of your dog, MP.😥 I had a very sweet-souled Golden that passed away awhile back, and it is so painful to lose these loveable creatures. Dogs are so wonderful. I now have an adopt-a-pet (program) mixed breed doggie…he has Golden, Chow, Hound & Beagle in him. I know, he sounds like a hot mess…but he’s actually such a cute, smart & sweet doggie.💙

            Dogs are paws-and-tails above narcs, in terms of relating to Empaths. Dogs are so real – in the moment – and reciprocal without condition.🐾
            #DumpNarcs/AdoptDogs🐶

          12. Caroline is fine, Thank you, I really miss my dog. I really wish that he is still here. Golden Retrievers are beautiful and gentle souls indeed. I’m sorry for your loss as well. They are probably the best family dogs. They are so beautiful too.
            And thank you for mentioning the adopt a pet program. I wasn’t aware of it until now and I looked it up and saw a few dogs in our area that I want to look at for adoption. I can only adopt one. We want to get another dog but not a German Shepherd anymore because they are very big and we will move to live in three different countries (one year in each country) after my husband retires so we want a small dog that can travel with us. Our kids have been asking for a dog and they love every dog that they see in public. I can’t wait to have a new family member. We currently have a cat so we need a dog that can get along with a cat. It sounds like your dog is a great dog. I’m happy that you found each other. I wish our family can be the same way for a dog soon. 😊

          13. MP,
            German Shepherds are fantastic dogs, but I understand your practicality in wanting a smaller dog. A great aspect to the pet adoption program is that you can spend as much time as you like with the animals, and it really gives you a good opportunity to feel out what dog/cat is right for your home/family…and as Empaths, I think we have a Sixth Sense in these matters, which means the right animal finds the right home to love him/her — and to flourish.💛
            😺🐶😺🐶😺🐶😺🐶😺🙉😺🐶

          14. Thank you Caroline is fine. I can’t wait to find out who will be our new family dog. The problem with me is once the dog is home with us and the dog gets attached to us, it will be hard for us to return the dog even if the dog may not be the perfect fit. It will make me feel that I’m letting the dog down so I will end up trying until the end to make it work. So I think I should first do a lot of research and meet the dog first with my family before we bring the dog home. That’s why I used to think that I might have a codependent in me and I was surprised that HG didn’t find any during the Detector. Although I have a tiny sprinkle of martyr but he said that it’s not the same as a codependent. Anyway, it does help that they tell you if the dog will be ok with little kids or not and also with cats. I am surprised that a lot of dogs cannot live with a man in the household. I wonder if some dogs prefer women but why would the shelter discriminate on men right away before the application instead of maybe trying to see if the dog might like a family that has a male in it because I think we just will not know for sure until the dog meets the family. 🤷‍♀️

          15. MP,
            I hear ya…unless a dog acted like Cujo when I got the dog home, I’d likely not be able to return either! I actually only meant spending time with the animals at the adopt-a-pet program location, but there may be places that will allow “trial runs” at your own home.

            Doing a lot of research on dog breeds is wise. I did the same (so I knew a lot about all the breeds in my current mixed doggie). I was worried the Chow-Chow in him may make him a bit too fierce, but it really hasn’t — however, I trained him as a pup, and I was firm when he occasionally did little growls at others, early on — and it stopped that behavior straight away. He is super laid back and gentle/easy. Too bad that my expert training methods don’t work on narcs! <threw that statement in, so that HG won't be as apt to protest our dog convo.😎

            I think some of the breeds that do best with a male in the house are those with a strong pack mentality/ancestry…so they will follow the male around much more, instinctively feeling: "there's the alpha provider!" One of my guy friends has a dog that's half Chow…and I DO know he feels like he is constantly being stalked.😂

          16. Ah thanks for clarifying. I saw an option to foster the dogs and I wasn’t sure how that works so I thought that it was what you meant, sort of like a trial run with them. I don’t think that I would do very well with it and also my kids. A few months ago my youngest stepdaughter needed us to take care of her dog while she was looking for a new apartment and I agreed even though I’m in No Contact with her as we had been in a very toxic dynamic for almost ten years but only intermittently as she and I never lived together. I am pegging her as a Lesser. She then decided after a few weeks that she will give up the dog to us permanently. The dog bonded with me and the kids and even chose me as her main person to follow around and obey. Then after I gave her a make over with new collar, leash and dog tags my stepdaughter changed her mind and took the dog back. My kids got really sad and actually up to now they still keep talking about the dog to other people. It’s amazing how much these things make an imprint in their little brains. So I wouldn’t want that to happen again. I will really make sure to do research before bringing home a new dog so that it will work. I think that you are right and that is a great point about dog breeds with strong pack mentality looking for an alpha. My GSD used to follow my husband around even though I was his owner before I married my husband. It was funny. 😊.
            Haha I don’t think that any of us will ever be able to train a narcissist. They train us with their manipulations but they will always resist being trained by us in any way. It’s not worth the attempt. 😆. Dogs are more than willing to be trained. They want to make it work and they want to please us and make us happy. I’m not even a good trainer but I was able to teach my GSD to sit, lie down and shake my hand. That’s because he was really smart and sweet. 😊

          17. MP,
            I feel so bad about your family having to give the doggie back.😪 Not fair! Maybe she’ll change her mind again, in which case, have her sign a contract. 🐾Doggie Rights!🐾

            Sit/Come & Stay (or Lie Down) is really all you need to train (“No bark” if they’re over-barkers, which can be helpful)…so shaking hands was a cute bonus train!😉 I lucked out with this little doggie~he’s the sharpest little doggie I’ve ever had, so he was a dream to train…like he taught himself to push the ice cube dispenser to get an ice cube out for himself🥰…and when too many come out, he looks at me like, “O