On Your Marks, Get Set, Stay!


How many times have you declared that you have had enough? How many times have you vowed that you are no longer putting up with this behaviour and making a fresh start? How often have you put in place steps to depart and leave this confusing and twisted reality behind? We hear these assertive comments from time to time. We have subjected you to a sustained devaluation, provoked so many heightened emotional responses from you which has given us fuel. At times you did not know whether you were coming or going, your head swam and that dull ache in the centre of your forehead never seemed to diminish. You wondered who you could trust as you fought to establish what you believed was right against a backdrop of contradictions. From somewhere you mustered some strength, a bolt of fortitude sprang from the maelstrom and in that moment of clarity you knew it was time to go. This situation is not right surely? Nobody should be treated in this manner. Yes, it was the moment to depart.

Of course you could not do so without your parting speech. It was not borne out of spite or venom. Those are not watchwords that apply to you. Notwithstanding the horrendous treatment meted out against you, the repeated abuse and the incessant put downs, you still behaved with dignity and grace. There was little doubt that you wanted to lash out. You wanted to flail us with stinging words and some home truths, just in the same way we had used our acidic tongues and savage words to berate you, yet despite how much you wanted to speak to us in this manner you did not do so. Instead, demonstrating the empathy which attracted us to you all that time ago you explained how you still loved us. You fought back the tears as you explained that you loved us more than you did when we first became a couple and despite everything that has happened you still love us. You ought to have torn strips of us, levelling a lengthy charge sheet against us but you did not behave in this way. That is not who you are. You talked about all the wonderful traits we have and how you miss them, you continued to praise us even after everything that we had done to you. You stood there bearing the emotional and physical bruises and rather than lambast us for putting you in such a state you preferred to talk about the magical times we had together. You clearly had committed each of those occasions to your memory as you brought up each event and occurrence as the tears trickled down your cheeks. You explained how wonderful we made you feel, how you had never experienced anything like that before and you consequently truly believed you had found the one. You work through the golden period, talking about the trips we took, the days we spent together and the glittering and scintillating moments we created. We can see this is hurting you all the more yet still your selflessness continues. You are exhausted after the tortuous time you have been put through and yet still you only try to remember the good and thank us for those wonderful times. You tell us that although they lasted a few months, the memories of that time are seared into your mind and you will always treasure them. You explain that you will reflect on those memories and not what came to pass afterwards as you still prefer to think the best of us, despite everything we have subjected you to. Your nobility in behaving in this manner is most impressive and your admirable words continue to fuel us. You explain between sobs that you do not want to go but you have to. You do not want to leave everything that we have built up behind but if you do not do so then you will be destroyed. You apologise, yes you actually apologise that you have not been able to help us, to steer us away from the destructive and malevolent behaviour that has marred the latter months together. You explaim how hard you have tried but admit you have been defeated. You express your desire for us to change and to seek help because you truly believe that we are a good person who just needs to seize on that goodness and allow it to shine. You tell us you have seen what we can do and achieve and you still want what is best for us. You stand there staring at us, some of your possessions already packed in the two suitcases which are waiting in the hallway. You tell us you will make arrangements with us to collect the remainder of your belongings once you have had a chance to think and breathe.

We rise from our seat and walk towards you. You are quietly sobbing and we take your hands in our hands and hold them in that tender manner you recall so well. The vicious squeezing that one day arrived out of nowhere is not in existence. Instead, we hold your hands and look you straight in the eye as we summon up a look we have practised before with others in the situation. The look begins as sorrow and then morphs into hope as we search your eyes looking for that flicker of flame once again through the tears. You hold our gaze as we keep searching and then we speak, our words soft and gentle, just as they were when we whispered into your ear as we lay next to you holding you late at night.

“I am sorry, I know this time I have to change. Please help me be the good person I know I can be, that I want to be. Something is wrong with me and I do not know what it is, but you can save me, you are the only one. Please do not leave me. I cannot survive without you. I need you. I want to make you happy again because someone as wonderful and as loving as you deserves it. I will get help but I know I can only do it with you at my side. Please, please stay.”

The short speech is delivered with true brilliance as I gather the right inflection in tone coupled with suitable contrite looks and mannerisms. I continue to look into your eyes as you let my words sink in. The moments pass and then the light flickers, that flame of hope sparks into life and I know your next words before you have even spoken them and I begin to give you that enticing and winning smile again. I know that you will stay. Again.

83 thoughts on “On Your Marks, Get Set, Stay!

  1. Whitney says:

    HG the UMR Somatic (who choked me lightly) showed up late at a quiz. He never rsvps for events even though it’s required.
    Anyway first thing he said was “what’s that?” About my milkshake. Then he asked what I’d eaten that day. I told him.Then he asked again if I’d eaten anything else.
    This started when he found out I ate KFC once. Actually he questioned me before that. When we got pizza after our sport. Did you eat today? What did you eat? What time did you eat? Maybe like OCD.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Your ET causes you to think that it is OCD. It is not, it is the exhibition of control by a narcissist.

      1. alexissmith2016 says:

        So Ns don’t actually have OCD as it is often stated it is a co-morbid condition? Is that what you’re saying HG?

        Ns do something which appears to be OCD but they do it to be in control?

        Does OCD even exist then? Can a normal/empathic person have OCD, so if they were obsessed with cleaning or some ritual they need to repeatedly do whatever it is due to fear? Ns to be in control?

        I definitely don’t have OCD – I wish I did! I chose a cleaning OCD please.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          1. A narcissist can have OCD. This would manifest towards rituals or an inanimate object.
          2. Supposed OCD behaviours of an individual who is a narcissist, where those behaviours are towards a person, are actually the manifestation of the narcissistic need for control and not OCD.
          3. Non-narcissists can have OCD.

          1. alexissmith2016 says:

            I understand, thanks for taking the time to make it clear for me

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

          3. Notme! says:

            I agree about narcissistic behaviours seeming to be like OCD. I used to think the N-ex had OCD as he HAD to exercise everyday regardless of how that impacted on anything else or he would keep me waiting for an hour while he ‘showered’. If this was an OCD symptom it would be accompanied by irrational fears that something bad would happen if he didn’t complete this ritual. However, if he wanted to do something else, he could just change his mind and give it a miss – no concerns at all. He was exhibiting a sense of entitlement to do what he wanted and when rather than feeling compelled to do something due to irrational thoughts/fears. Strangely, he would sometimes excuse his behaviours by saying ‘oh it’s just my OCD’ again if it suited his purpose.

        2. Witch says:

          The rituals that occur are as a result of intrusive/obsessive thoughts that cause distress and rituals are developed to cope with the obsessive thoughts. Usually people with OCD believe that something terrible will happen to them or others if they don’t perform the ritual.
          You wouldn’t want to have any kind of OCD

          1. alexissmith2016 says:

            Mmmm I definitely don’t want an OCD then. Okay, how about I marry someone with an OCD in cleaning instead?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Or hire a cleaner?

          3. alexissmith2016 says:

            Not a bad idea, could do. But I’m thinking if it was an N with an OCD I could put mud on the carpet or something and leave them at home cleaning whilst I go out

          4. Witch says:

            It’s all good until you’re running late somewhere and tell him “don’t worry, we can mop the floor when we get back.” 😭

          5. nah, I’d leave him to clean it up whilst I go out. ooh the fun we could have…

          6. Getting There says:

            Great explanation, HG and Witch! Thank you!

          7. alexissmith2016 says:

            I feel pretty confident I could cure them

  2. alexissmith2016 says:

    Nice one Argb! You have made this sound so simple, I’m sure there was an awful lot of hurt and turmoil involved. You did extremely well! It cannot have been easy for you at all. Bloody well done! x

    1. Argb says:

      Alexis: thank you 🙂

      The details of my experienced pain and torment wouldve taken paragraphs to write.

      I keep my stories brief as talking about the Ns only spark the memories and sometimes light up the part of “how good it was” (though it never was).

      I was ejected from my own bed. Banished to the basement. Physically as well as psychologically abused. Like so many of our stories…being engaged with a narcissist and in the throes of addiction left me empty, swimming in the pits of hell trying desperately to find a way out.

      Saying no was challenging. There have been so many times before with other Ns when going back was always in the cards.
      I understand the desire to go back …every year at this time he starts provoking for thought fuel. I like to remember how i got out.

      Im very grateful to have this blog to share on. I think sometimes the best & worst part is that we know we’re not alone.

      1. alexissmith2016 says:

        It must have been absolutely horrendous for you and it is a great way to be by providing a more detached kind of summary without delving into the depths of what they did and how they made us feel good and bad. We all get you, we all know what it feels like to be that empty shell.

        This blog is a great place to be for sure.

        HG, how many people who have been in a relationship with an N, IPSS or IPPS become aware of what what the N is. At an approximate guess, more or less than 1 in 100?

  3. Whitney says:

    Guess what HG? I think he’s a nice person again.

    Because my friend’s boyfriend chokes her during sex, so hard she can’t breathe and makes noises.
    The UMR Somatic only choked me lightly. It was just a gesture… I shouldn’t say “choke” because I could fully breathe.

    My friend’s boyfriend bit her so hard she has bruises all over her shoulders and it hurts to move her arms! The UMR Somatic bit my earlobe quickly and it hurt for 1 second.

    Both didn’t ask permission.

    Also the UMR Somatic pays for our meals and a holiday and helps me in practical ways, and my friend’s boyfriend will NOT help her or pay $5 for her.

    I think my friend’s boyfriend is LMR, and uses Somatic and Victim manipulations.

    I think all men are psychopathic, HG. I hate men who act nice, they make me sick. At least UMR Narcissists make themselves useful and try to be good people. “Nice” men are not good men. They are cowards. You have to stand up for what’s right to be a good man. You have to be brave.

    1. Alexissmith2016 says:

      Whitney, I can understand why you would think that but honestly not all men are paychopathic. They’re really not. And just because an UMR is the least likely of all Ns to have a sadistic streak don’t be fooled into thinking they are good people, they are not. They still don’t care about you, only themselves. It is all about them though they are capable of making you think it is about you. It’s fake, it’s false and don’t be taken in.

      There are just as many decent men out there as there are lovely women.

      It does feel like there are more Ns than even one in six at times, but that could just be the circles I move in. Even though in terms of inner circle friends I don’t have an N left. All ditched. I’d much rather be by myself.

      Back to the point, nice men are not all cowards, normals won’t get engaged in stuff they don’t need to and some empaths will devote themselves to a cause if they believe its the right thing to do. Ns will only get involved or jump in to save someone if there is fuel to be gained. It doesn’t make them brave – just self-centrered because they’re doing it for themselves. Although, I do rather work this to my advantage now.

      Please don’t change your mind Whitney, you were right before. Comparing him against another does not make him a nice person. He may do nice things, HE is not nice.

      1. Lorelei says:

        Hence the confusion Alexis—the mismatch between nice things and the reason it is difficult to wrap a head around it. I just assume any man I’m attracted to is a narcissist. I’m usually correct because it’s who I am drawn to, but I understand that most “out there” are not. Very nice thoughts you provided Whitney to ponder.

        1. I’m the same Loreili but the more I learn about Ns the more the attraction wanes

          1. Whitney says:

            HG is the only good man

          2. Lorelei says:

            Alexis—that is happening indeed. I get so frustrated it is such a slow process. The behaviors are off putting and when I see what I see more and more clearly I’m less and less attracted. I know logically it’s like getting in shape so it takes time but it’s using parts of my mind that I’m not used to because my own behavior is so ingrained.
            There is one absolutely stunning individual I’m slowly re-framing as unacceptable despite him being quite charming etc. It’s like I’m having to think through how unacceptable it would be to sleep with someone I interface in this particular place—especially a mid ranger! Previously, I’d probably be meeting this guy in the damn bathroom to make out as hard as it is to say this. I’m far from a saint but making out with a mid range narcissist knowingly that I rely on professionally doesn’t need to happen and won’t happen. I’m not only attracted to these sorts, but I’ve identified I’m attracted to certain nefarious behavior of my own. That’s a strong term—ornery may be more appropriate. I’m just really steeped in unhealthy patterns after years of being groomed to do things contrary to my interests. I recognize that I grew up in the twilight zone with my mom & dad and his florid abuse. What I know in my head requires a lot more fitness in application and I’ve admittedly said “F it” at times. I will say that it won’t be good enough for me to have a high failure rate in recognizing who is a narcissist versus who is not. HG talks of recognizing the smell of a narcissist and I really want to get better than being suspicious. I also don’t wish to be guilty of applying such an inflammatory view when it’s not well based on a lack of interpretation in attempt to apply what we learn here. (As I’ve been on the receiving end of) I owe it to myself to get this as close as right as possible. The better I get the better positioned I am to aid my children as well.

          3. It’s hard isn’t it Loreili re-framing it all. Like you I had nothing stable to base anything on and learning as an adult is not so easy – but I promise you it can be done. You’re an incredibly smart woman, you sound mischievous and lots of fun too! Nobody is perfect so don’t be hard on yourself. Just imagine the mid-range twat he really is every time you see that hot guy, you’ll soon be reaching for the sick bag!
            You learn other ways to have fun once you’re through this. Life will never be the same, but you adapt and return to your baseline but in a different kind of way, but enjoy it all the more. Sounds like you’re making great progress!

          4. Lorelei says:

            Five steps forward and ten back at times..! I truly never in a million years anticipated how complicated this is/would be. I am appalled by my lack of awareness of how messed up my day to day was for so long!
            I think my personal favorite was being harangued for two weeks over being a narcissist on an anonymous sociopath blog! That was interesting and totally unnecessary.

          5. but very soon those five steps forward will just keep going with the occasional one or two steps back and before you know it you’ll be stronger than ever before!

            It must have been awful being accused of being an N when you’re new to the site and your ET is already at an all time high. You did amazing and showed incredible strength – you really did. Not many people could have taken that and still be here.

            At a guess I’d say you have incredibly strong N traits as well as E traits too.

            Our lack of awareness pre knowledge is incredibly really. I’m around six years post knowledge and most of the time I just accept that I live in this world (apart from on here) where people have no real clue what an N is. But sometimes it will creep up on me, when things seem so obvious now and yet pre-knowledge I had no clue. I recognised when people didn’t make me feel nice but that was about it.

          6. Lorelei says:

            I hope Alexis—but the years of being subjected to bullying/mockery, derision as a primary tactic, cutting remarks, no reprieve ever—there was never a return to any golden moment whatsoever—has taken more of a toll than I realized. It is more apparent now than ever before. An abuser that just hangs in until the last drop over and over can have the capacity to cause much more harm than someone who abuses and tires more easily of their partner—they leave/discard sooner. I think that because it was well over a decade I’m still feeling more of a “post suffocated/psychological response.” I’m not sure that can be helped here. I can’t even stand to be around the same people for long. I spent a few days with someone at Thanksgiving and was annoyed after a much shorter time frame than our duration together. I’m shut down quite a bit. Maybe it will dissipate some on its own but something is missing in the “get better” recipe. Time shall tell, I have no choice but to hang in there because of my family and children. I have an excellent family which is amazing considering what we grew up with.
            As far as that thread goes—it was truly a beneficial experience. It opened my eyes up to seeing that even empaths can be cruel to other empaths. They can smear, be passive aggressive, piggy back others behavior/throw a second punch.. Unlikely would I come on here and randomly attack another reader in such a way because I felt disdain toward them. Who cares what they are? That woman (maybe she is a highly Sophisticated super empath angel sent from God above therefore deserving of the consideration of all other Gods) had no benefit to go on a platform and say things and smear and twist my words around except to be drama provoking. Why? She was never going to know me or be impacted by me in her life. The declaration of “my behavior” without applying a label COULD have sufficed. That is all. When someone wants to battle I challenge they consider their approach. I even assert that those who piggy backed her disdain are essentially nice people. I’m not going to paint everyone with the “mean narcissist” wand because two wrongs do not equate to a right. I’m much more considered in my approach because I typically consider others feelings and I don’t want to appear to be lacking intelligence by making claims I can only support by twisting others words in a rudimentary fashion which is akin to smearing. I admittedly overlook some people’s posts. I don’t tend to perseverate on or attack them for yielding content I don’t like or find benefit from.
            I also feel something greater needs to arise from what I went through. Several professionals missed the abuse I was undergoing because there is a deficit of asking the right questions to patients. I am actively trying to ascertain the best approach from a research perspective to aid in this. My post graduate work may be able to incorporate it—maybe not—but I have other platform opportunities. We need to quit asking if people are simply physically, sexually or psychologically impacted/abused. Maybe a better question would be, “Do you often modify your behavior to prevent unpleasant behavior from people in your family or your partner?” The women I work with (as I did) do not know they are being abused. The approach to planting seeds much change. I also have access to a growing program working with low income single moms. It’s an opportunity and a research based initiative. I can’t professionally share my personal appeal—but I’m in a good position to participate and “piggy back” this effort started by another woman in the community. I really do like my work. It refreshes me and makes me think less of my own issues.

          7. Violetta says:

            “Previously, I’d probably be meeting this guy in the damn bathroom to make out”

            This is like high school. I wonder if a lot of narc addiction has to do with leftover longing for the Kewl kids in high school: shallow, charming, lacking in guilt or compassion, charismatic enough to run a social circle and sadistic enough to make anyone outside that circle wish they were invisible or dead. Ooh, what an honor it is to do Jr. Narc’s homework for him! Ohmigosh, I-Was-a-Teenage-Narc made out with me in the boiler room AGAIN, so even if he won’t acknowledge me in public, I *know* he cares.

            Being normal doesn’t make you popular in high school; being an empath has gotten people killed.

            We are set up for disastrous relationships, unless we can unlearn the values we swallowed as adolescents.

          8. We can unlearn them Violetta.

            At primary school (5-11yrs) I had a mixture of friends some I now realise were Ns in the making others not.
            At secondary school (11-18yrs) Initially I made a new friend she was wonderful, full of life and lots of fun. It was completely natural, she was feisty and would not take crap from anyone but she was kind and caring too. She was considered a little odd by some people, but I did not care. We just got along brilliantly. We were friends for about a year or so. Then I became aware of ‘popularity’, the as you say kewl kids were showing an interest in being friends with me, but not her.
            I ditched her and hung out with them instead. Something I always regretted probably from around age 16. I enjoyed the status of being popular but I never had a ‘fun’ time, it just seemed that way to those on the outside looking in.
            These types of friendships continued into adulthood. On finding HG. I ditched them all as I worked out they were Ns!
            When I make new friends now, if they are an N, they remain well and truly as an outer-circle friend. Someone who I will go out with for the evening as part of a wider group, but not someone who can have my phone number or whom I would meet up with independently. Not being on SM helps with that. If I’m added to a WA group I don’t want to be a part of, I’ll remove myself from the group and I don’t give a shit.

            There is nothing good to be gained from being with the kewl kids. We just think that is the case, especially when we’re young.

          9. Lorelei says:

            Alexis—I find that popularity makes us a target or it has.. I was generally well regarded in school, work, etc. I’d even venture to say quite well-liked. It’s been a miserable situation though at times because narcissist women can’t stand it. I’ve been especially targeted due to a few romantic entanglements. My college boyfriend and my first husband. A few people put me through hell and I didn’t know why! I do now. Jealousy from a narcissist female is crazy miserable. I’m feeling more weaponized because I can recognize it now. I would think it would diminish as I get older but that is not accurate.

          10. ugh! you have no idea. I literally could never understand why on earth certain females were seemingly jealous of me when they appeared to ‘have it all’ what on earth were they jealous of me for? and yet they turned anything they could into a competition. what the actual fuck lol. I could never get it? and now I do. they’re just jealous. full stop.

          11. Lorelei says:

            Yes they do—they make you miserable. Less so now because it’s not bewildering behavior. I remember my first ex spouse—a girl at his work (our work) had a huge thing for him. It was a nice pay back to be her boss six years ago after all the smears. She kept it up of course. She is/was such a bitch.

          12. Glad you became her boss. I don’t like her because you don’t like her!

          13. Lorelei says:

            I know why I would be in a bathroom with him. He’s delicious to look at, he’s tall, strong, chiseled and fabulously gorgeous. He’d toss a girl around like a rag doll. My best friend said she almost died watching him eat a peach. The problem is that he’s a sulky mid ranger lacking any awareness. He corners me at times and it takes strength. He’s one of the most attractive men I’ve ever seen! Fuck why can’t they look like shit!

          14. Hahah you’re lucky Lotereili many of mine have? Ugh. Thought I was safe with those ones. The good looking ones I was always suspicious of and just enjoyed them for what they were. Unattractive ones, I was clueless. Bloody hell! How wrong I was!

          15. Lorelei says:

            Haha—he’s absolutely stunning to look at. His arms are the most beautiful I’ve ever seen and he comes up behind me and it’s always some innuendo. I just run. He knows how pretty he is. It’s disturbing. Maybe I should sleep with him just once before I’m cured.

          16. Hahhaha Id probably be thinking exactly the same Loreili. But we both know that’s not a good idea. Take the compliment and leave him to bang his cock off the wall.

          17. Lorelei says:

            Too funny. Technically HG has not confirmed his narcissism. Maybe I just don’t know what I am seeing and while gathering the appropriate information as “field work” I accidentally sleep with him?

          18. Lorelei, you’re incredibly intelligent. I don’t doubt at all that you’ve assessed him correctly. Let the LT prevail.

          19. Lorelei says:

            Brad Pitt is single and HG said Angelina was the bad seed. He may be more appropriate. I’m holding out hope. Where can he be found?

          20. I heard brad was already asking after you Lorelei

          21. Lorelei says:

            Maybe he can consult with HG because he’s still not divorced. He’s clearly not purchased the divorce or co-parenting packages. She forced him into drinking all the time when they were together so we share that miserable memory in common. I think we would be quite happy. It’s really not a grandiose thought of mine. My cat jumped on my head this morning and my eyes are swollen. I’m waiting for the antihistamine to work as I listen to the rain. It’s actually peaceful and today we travel south—I’m happy about it!

          22. Lorelei says:

            Alexis—just because the other thread made
            me think of this. Can you imagine the conversation Jen and Courtney had when Brad started being seduced by Angelina? The “look at who he is with.” She is lovely to look at but her behaviors were unusual and Jennifer Aniston was never publicly “strange.” I’m certain she was just appalled. This kind of stuff goes on every day—I imagine HG hears it constantly.

          23. Ooh I don’t know that much about AJ or JA so that’s interesting. BP is hot though, have you considered sharing at all?

          24. Lorelei says:

            Sharing? I’ll share but who?

          25. Well in all honestly if brad asked, I’d probably have to say no at the moment. Your sex god N sounds pretty hot though.

          26. Lorelei says:

            Oh I know better. I don’t always do better. It is amazing how well he does his little thing though. He’s not vulgar either. It disturbs me!

          27. Oh god! stop it now. I’m now wishing Mercy was my N! She knows all the best gifts!

          28. Lorelei says:

            I’m lost. Gifts? I want gifts.

          29. Mercy was talking about rechargable vibrators on another thread

          30. Lorelei says:

            Haha—I’m catching up now. Lelo is the best sex toy company period.

          31. Oooh thanks for the tip Lorelei, I’ll check Lelo out

          32. Lorelei says:

            They have 24 karat gold plated vibrators. I’m a cheaper date than that—just stick to the basics! I’m not bent over a disabled toilet cheap but 15k for a vibrator is so extravagantly upper lesser extraordinaire it makes my eyes roll.

          33. NarcAngel says:

            I’d advise against Brad. He comes with a tribe and his ex is a narcissist. No fuck is worth that.

          34. Lorelei says:

            At my/our age Anyone with an ex either is a narc or was with one! The downside is that he is 5’11”—-I like at least 6’0” and preferably 6’2” or more. It’s a weakness.

          35. Lorelei says:

            Pretty never became so ugly in my ex. One should be suspicious.

          36. Desirée says:

            Just imagine a whiny baby’s head sitting on top of those shoulders. Like in the article here


          37. Lorelei says:

            Omg Desiree—no way! Even sulky he is amazing. It’s ok though. I don’t need the headache but it’s a rough temptation. I am breathless when he does his stupid seductive crap!

          38. Violetta says:


            I like stubble.
            I like babies.
            The two together…not so much.

          39. Desirée says:

            But will you be a good girl, Lorelei? Because you still sound like you’re in need of a cold shower! Haha my recommendation would be to enter a river in winter and then swim against the current. If your skin is burning, the temperature is just right and it makes for a fantastic high intensity workout. Your body never burns calories quite like when it thinks it might die. I do it several times a week, feels fantastic and would get your mind away from any upper echelon somatics you might have been thinking about previously.

          40. Lorelei says:

            You get in a river and swim against the current twice a week Desiree? No cold shower—I am planning to behave. I still think it’s funny that my friend nearly lost her mind watching him eat a peach! I just wish they were all disgusting and gross.

          41. Desirée says:

            Agreed, Violetta. Although I might reassess if I see one with just the slightest hint of hair on the upper lip. There’s no resisting the pornstache.

          42. Desirée says:

            I try to go more often than that, if time allows. This morning I opted for the lake, also nice but less intense than the river so I didn’t like it as much. My dreams is to go ice-swimming the swedish way – cutting a hole into a thick layer of ice, then taking a dip – or the finnish way – relaxing in an arctic sauna and then, er, well skinny dipping in icy water I suppose.

          43. Violetta says:


            “There’s no resisting the pornstache.”

            On a baby?

          44. Desirée says:

            Oh yes, Violetta. The Magnetism that emanates from this magical choice of facial hair grooming leaves me in awe wherever and on whomever I lay eyes upon it. I would post that mesmerizing music video again to illustrate my point. But then again, you’re already well familiar with it and word has reached me that we’re banned from posting youtube videos. You wouldn’t have anything to do with that, would you? After all, there is no way my musical contributions in recent days could have caused this unholy decision.

    2. AnneB says:

      Hi Whitney, what is your feeling on having a partner put his hands around your neck during sex? What is your boundary? What does it take for you to feel safe and loved whilst in the act? That is, if safe/loved or something similar is what you want. That is all that is important in terms of determining what action you will take.

      If you currently consider all men to be psychopathic and if you align the term psychopathic with dangerous, unloving, unable to love and similar and if you do not want this dynamic in your life, then you might think about avoiding intimate relationships with men. I’m sorry – because you already know, somewhere, that you serve yourself best by going no contact with the N in your life at this time. Until then emotional thinking will distort your empathic traits and distort empathy for yourself and even distort your self definition, IMO.

    3. Violetta says:

      “Both didn’t ask permission.”

      That’s not so nice.

      You don’t have to sign an affidavit that you’re willing at every step, the way the college dorms seem to mandate, but you should definitely discuss anything that many steps from vanilla before you actually get physical (“Of course I don’t mind dressing up in a wench bodice and having you take it off me forcibly, sweetie, but can you cut the strings with your broadsword instead of ripping it off me? These things are expensive”).

      He didn’t choke you so you couldn’t breathe or hurt your ear when he bit it–


      Maybe he won’t escalate the violence, but why should he stop? It’s not like he has to ask permission.

    4. Bubbles 🍾 says:

      Dear Whitney,
      I found your comment extremely startling on so many levels and lots of red flags
      Clearly, I’m from a different era
      Luv Bubbles xx 😘

    5. E. B. says:

      Hello Whitney,

      I am glad to see you here today. I submitted my reply to your other comment (article NarcDetector) through my WP app but kept getting the same error message: “Reply failed, please try again”. I could not access the article NarcDetector with a browser either.

      You had asked why the narcissist targeted your friend but not you although you were together. Narcissists like to test people. For example, MRNs make comments about themselves -some are true but most of them are not. Then they pause and observe how I react to their words and opinions (!) They also test my boundaries to see how far they can control me.
      Perhaps your friend showed some green flags which made her an easy prey for narcissists of the Victim variety.

      Have you read “Sitting Target – How and why the narcissist chooses you”?
      I find this book unique because HG is the only author who explains in great detail what narcissists look for in potential victims according to the type of school AND cadre.

      1. Violetta says:


        That’s one of the books I ordered. I am both looking forward to reading it and dreading it.

        Recognizing myself will be a step forward, but it won’t be fun. I’m cringing in advance.

        1. E. B. says:

          I personally did not find it triggering at all. I found it very informative and helpful.

          1. Violetta says:

            Thanks, E.B., good to know.

      2. Alexissmith2016 says:

        I didn’t see the original question Whitney but i saw the mention above where it was suggested you were unsure why he targeted your friend and not you so I don’t know exactly what it relates to


        During the time my original Mid range thinking he’s a greater N targeted me. He knew both me and my best friend of that particular group (also an N) equally. He made a comment at one stage, oh I knew I should have flirted with your friend instead of you. My response, “go ahead I’m not interested anyway”. His reply, “that wasn’t the answer I was hoping for”.
        He later sucked me in.

        He continued with the love bombing and when devaluation eventually started flirting with her was in full swing! I fucked him right off. It hurt, it hurt massively but my pride would have been more hurt by hanging around.

        Not sure what the original content of your comment was but be bloody grateful that he was more interested in your friend.

      3. Whitney says:

        Thank you for your help everyone, sorry I manually check for replies! I don’t know how to be notified.

        Thanks for trying to reply to the other question E.B!!
        Completely different men target my friend and I, although the men know us both.

        I’ve read sitting target and I thought I sounded like a good target for a victim narc, that’s why I was confused. I’m a Geyser/Carrier Empath.

        The Victim Narc observed us both from a far and selected her for his campaign, which was successful. He’s exactly like her dad and she was a perfect target. Amazing he knew from afar.

        Psychopaths and grandiose ones are drawn to me from watching.
        Empaths and narcs are instinctively drawn to each other so I’m interested in the very specific subconscious signalling.

        1. E. B. says:

          re “I am interested in the very specific subconscious signalling.”

          I am not sure if there is something subconscious going on. I would ask HG in your case. From what I have seen, some MRNs (I do not know about Lessers and Greaters) use their own experience with previous victims to ensnare new ones. I am speaking about romantic relationships. They believe every potential victim will respond to their behaviour in the same way others did.

          1. Whitney says:

            Ohh EB that is smart thinking! Experience with previous victims must help them select new ones. I think that’s how I’m finding narcs so readily now- because of my experience with previous narcs.

  4. Argb says:

    I was lucky enough to have friends N was unaware of.

    The day i had to leave we were at a restaurant and he was sitting at a table with my replacement. I had just driven them both there and was expected to join them.
    I said that things were not going well. N was silent. I said i was receiving his silence as agreement.
    I said it was time for me to leave. N was silent. I repeated i was receiving his silence as agreement.
    I asked when a good time to leave would be. N said “Today is as good a day as any.” This is all happening while the replacement is shaking her head in disbelief of my leaving (and of course, she was experiencing the golden period).
    And N told people that i would be grovelling to come back.
    I found somewhere to be in 24hrs. And found a place to live within a month.
    N thought i would want to come back if i came to get my things. I just got what was important and what would fit in my car.

    I got out.

    I know its not like this for everyone. I wanted to share that escape is possible.
    The smear campaign still continues in social circles we used to frequent together but i am safe and have other avenues to build a life from.

    I hope you find your way out too.

    1. Mercy says:

      Argb, Congrats on your escape. Thanks for sharing. That is something to be proud of.

    2. Susan says:

      Brave and courageous. Allowing emotional thinking to take its rightful place. I commend you. Look deep. Understand what why you were attracted in the first place so it never happens again.

    3. E. B. says:

      Hello Argb,
      Congratulations! I am glad you could find a way out. Escaping a narcissist is not always easy.
      It is good to hear you had friends the narcissist did not know about and you were able to get some help from other people. Narcissists smear us to our social network to isolate us and deny us of new oportunities to rebuild our life.
      I wish you all the best for the coming year.

    4. ANM says:

      Congratulations on leaving. I am glad you are safe.

    5. So glad you got out Argb. You did really, really well! And it’s great you had some friends he didn’t know about.

      Don’t worry about the smear campaign – it doesn’t matter what other people think xxx

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