Understanding the Narcissistic Perspective

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If you understand the Narcissistic Perspective you will take a large leap forward in achieving freedom from narcissistic abuse.

One of the repeated failings that people make in their quest to understand what has happened to them is to not understand the narcissistic perspective.

This is not to empathise with it.

This is not to be sympathetic to it.

It is pure Logical Understanding.

This Logic Bulletin comes in two fantastic parts

Part One addresses 

  • Clear explanations about the common mistakes that victims make when trying to understand the behaviour of the narcissist
  • The existence of the Majority Perspective and the Narcissistic Perspective, what that means and how they manifest.
  • Identification of the Strands of the Narcissistic Perspective, namely The Basic Narcissistic Perspective, The Cognitive Empathy Perspective and The Devil´s Perspective.
  • What each of those perspectives involves and means to the victim
  • Which school of narcissistic operates with which strand of the Narcissistic Perspective
  • What the perspectives do
  • Enabling you to make sense of why the narcissist behaves as he or she does and why previously you were unable to make sense of it.
  • The Baseline Scenario with regard to a common interaction between victim and narcissist to assist you in understanding how the perspectives apply to this interaction. The Baseline Scenario will apply to intimate and non-intimate interactions for primary, former primary and secondary sources, therefore this material is of use to those with a need for understanding about romantic, familial, social, work, business, client or neighbour ensnarements with one or more narcissists.

Part Two comes in a range of Bolt-Ons which enable you to pick and choose which ones you want to utilise with regard to the relevant school of narcissist. Each Bolt-On applies to the Baseline Scenario so you are taken through the step by step response of each particular narcissist, using HG Tudor´s unrivalled insight. The Bolt-On explains how the narcissist feels, what his response will be, why he responds as he does and what manipulations will be used against you and why. The Bolt-On dissects the interaction as you would understand it and then explains it in terms relevant to the narcissistic perspective.

The Bolt-Ons cover the following :-

  • Lower Lesser Narcissist
  • Middle Lesser Narcissist
  • Upper Lesser Type A Narcissist
  • Upper Lesser Type B Narcissist
  • Lower Mid Range Narcissist
  • Middle Mid Range Narcissist
  • Upper Mid Range Narcissist

You require Part One and then you can utilise just one Bolt-On or as many as you like to increase your understanding and gain unrivalled knowledge and finally gain clarity as to why the narcissist behaves in the way he or she does.

Select Part One below and then each relevant Part Two Bolt-On before making payment. The material will then be emailed to you by audio file.

Part One (US $ 40)

Part 2

92 thoughts on “Understanding the Narcissistic Perspective

  1. Hope7 says:

    I laughed out loud at “the Greaters and the Ultra.” You said Greaters in the plural form and Ultra in the singular. Are you implying there is only ONE Ultra? Perhaps, that YOU are “THE” Ultra? The Elite Ultra? Is there a more superior description than that in existence? Lol. It reminds me of my brother. He would always claim he was God. He would always give himself nicknames like “The Pro” and require us to call him that or be delivered a beat down if we protest. He thought of himself and declared himself as an expert at everything, snowboarding, dirt-biking, trick biking, even before he’d tried it, and not to mention he was like ten. If I claimed I could do something he couldn’t do he would laugh and then be furious when I proved it. He would deny that he couldn’t do it saying he could even though he really couldn’t. It was a gymnastics move that I trained for weeks to master. He would then try to change the rules to suit him.

    1. Hope7 says:

      I always thought he was joking when he applied those labels to himself. It always made me laugh incredulously, but the God one offended me and he delighted in this fact as well. Was he really serious? Was he not trying to be funny? Did he really believe himself to be the pro at all things, God, and universal expert? Is he that out of touch? Or he’s just demonstrating superiority and it’s not meant to be literal and it is supposed to also be funny due to irony?

      1. K says:

        He was demonstrating superiority and grandiosity. In his world he is the Supreme Leader, a God. You Challenged him, which is a threat to his control, and he laughed (belittling) to assert control. When you proved him wrong, He became furious, loss of control and a lack of fuel, so he denies and deflects (moving the goal post and changing the rules) to get fuel, assert control and maintain supremacy. Your rules aren’t applicable to him, in his world, and you have been dragged into his world whether you like or not.

        1. Hope says:

          Thank you, K

          1. K says:

            my pleasure, Hope
            Your comment reminded me of my ULN’s brother. He was very arrogant and declared that he could solve a 3-D puzzle in half and hour. He couldn’t do it (no surprise there!) and I remember thinking: What an idiot!

          2. Hope says:

            Haha!! Yes. Many memories like that as well.

  2. Hope says:

    @witch I was also getting spam pop-ups for a time while accessing this site. I think it was around the holidays. Something about virus scan. Very obvious fear-inducing click bait pop ups that take over the screen/redirect. I thought it might be related to watching porn but it was only when on this site. On the computer and phone. It has stopped. Not sure what caused it or remedied it but I don’t have any third-parties (Narc exes) messing with my stuff or have access to it.

    1. Witch says:

      It’s stopped now, I’m not sure what got rid of it

  3. WokeAF says:

    HG! The Intimate Relationship is SUPERB!

    A follow up Q pls?
    My mid ranger -was in chaos mode ,- had me as the S-IPSS, AND had the C-IPSS well ensnared. BUT she chose to live afar for study 1/2 the year , for the first two years.
    -Upon permanently moving in , he disengaged from me for 9 months.
    I then was hoovered and resurrected as S-IPSS.

    WAS IT POSSIBLE that her C-IPSS position lasted the first TWO YEARS -and the Golden period was only the first 9 months when I heard from him ? (Or less, if he began to devalue before actually hoovering me)

    I know it was very difficult for him, her living half the year abroad. He pushed HARD on his NITS and me for fuel. But he’s high functioning so he REALLY had his eyes on the prize. She had been a highschool gf and he knew she was the perfect target.

    Your time limit for C-IPSS before being crowned as IPPS -could that have been painfully and begrudgingly pushed to 2 years – thereby shortening the actual golden period after (moving in proper) being crowned as IPPS?

    Thank youuuuu

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Please see https://narcsite.com/private-e-mail-consultation/ as this is a detailed answer.

    2. Hope says:

      Girl, whyyy? Not trying to be rude. I know it’s your ET that has you feeling some type of way. Is it your ego? Are you trying to validate yourself? Are you triangulating yourself with your past? Does it matter? Don’t forget—he’s a narc. He’s not judging you by your character (other than its viability to be used for his own gain). He’s using a different measuring stick. You don’t want to win! If you win—guess what? You stay stuck in this miserable cycle longer. Just remember—he’s not capable of nor does he desire nor will he ever desire true intimacy and true love, as you define it. As you desire it. As you deserve it. You can’t find what you truly desire in him. And her—she’s a victim too. She’s being fooled as well. She will never get what she truly desires with him.

      Grieve your loss. Grieve your losses. I’m sorry this happened to you. But just a gentle reminder that if you can trust HG when he tells you he’s a narc and truly let go of all the 5 fingers of influence for 6 months… you may never care to even hear the answer to this question. Imagine that? Wouldn’t that be grand?

      Sorry if my butting in offends you. Not intended. I’m just trying to help. I was like you too and had all these questions not realizing it was an emotional addiction. I kept myself ensnared as a result of this long after the disengagement prolonging my misery sooooo muuuccchhh looonnnggeerrr than was necessary! Can you believe I was proud of my dedication to this “tortured soul” who “needed my dedication” to “prove he can trust me”? LOL 😂 That was what I believed. You got this! Just keep reading. I started by reading all the articles. Month by month. Instead of thinking about him, just read when anxiety is keeping you distracted.

  4. Bubbles 🍾 says:

    Dearest Mr Tudor n lovelies,
    Thank you from my breaking heart for your comforting words … they helped ease a very heavy burden indeed

    Unbelievably, (well with narcs, it IS believable) and I kid you not …….My narc mother has now “changed her mind ” what the ????? …she wants her cat to live !!
    She said “evil took over momentarily” and she’s asked for the cats forgiveness…what the ????
    I had extremely strong words with her for putting me thru all that … and all she said was …..” never mind, it’s all worked out for the best now ”
    “What the …..” ??????
    “Understanding the narcissistic perspective” …… yeah right!
    Another example of what they do !!!!!!!!
    Fortunately and thankfully, I have you all to “re focus” on and “apply the logic” to their crazy and adjust my emotions accordingly
    It’s been one bloody hellava week and I’ve literally been beside myself
    My warmest of feelings to you all for caring so
    Luv Bubbles xx 😘

    1. WhoCares says:


      Just read this:

      “My narc mother has now “changed her mind ” what the ????? …she wants her cat to live !!”

      They certainly know exactly how to keep us off balance, don’t they?


      1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Dearest WhoCares,
        Jeez, they certainly do WC, thankyou for your comment lovely one
        The cat received a makeover instead, fur shaved, nails clipped and a broken tooth that needed extraction ….. she’s all tickety-boo now….. the cat that is …. haha
        My mother had a power blackout yesterday, karma payback perhaps …….mwahahaha
        I’m back on track now …..til the next time ….and there’s always a next time !!
        Double hugs 🤗
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

  5. Renarde says:

    Oh Madame

    I’m so sorry. On behalf of Blighty, I wish you and your country folk and animals, energy and healing at this most desperate time.


  6. Bubbles 🍾 says:

    Dear FoolMe,
    No, it is illegal in Australia to have a koala as a pet or to pet them Only trained professionals or authorised facilities like zoos can, as they are wildlife creatures, it stresses the animal otherwise
    We have to phone ” koala rescue ” if we see them stranded anywhere, they can be extremely aggressive and have razor sharp claws needed to climb trees and they do bite …they make strange squealing grunting and growling noises
    If we find one in a tree in our street, it is recommended we leave it be (provide water of course) but it will find its way back to their natural habitat gum tree park ….eucalypt leaves is their main diet
    Koalas are very prone and at risk to chlamydia as well and this has been a growing concern
    The bushfire was extenuating circumstances from rescuers
    I’ve only ever petted a koala at a wildlife park held by a ranger
    This fire tragedy has had an enormous affect on our emotions, something a narcissist wouldn’t necessarily ponder over as much
    Hope that has helped a little FoolMe
    I’m an animal lover and mum has asked me to organise to have her cat put down this Friday … I’m not coping well right now !
    Luv Bubbles xx 😘

    1. Fool Me 1 Time says:

      Dear Bubbles thank you for the information on the Koalas. I didn’t think they could be kept as pets but I wasn’t sure how friendly they were? I’m so sorry to hear you are the one responsible for putting your Mothers cat down, that is never an easy thing to do. I will be thinking of you this week sweetie. 😘💞

    2. Lorelei says:

      Bubbles—so sorry for all the tragedy near you. And your mom & her cat.

  7. Bubbles 🍾 says:

    Dearest K,
    We have koalas in a park nearby … and they sometimes climb in the trees in our street .. we have a lot of gum trees !!
    They are the cutest cuddliest balls of fluff
    There was one sitting on the freeway the other day as we went past … waving at us !
    We all leave water out for them in containers ! 🐨
    Luv Bubbles xx 😘

    1. K says:

      Dearest Bubbles,
      They are so cute! The destruction of wild life and all the lives and homes lost
      is truly heartbreaking. Keep up the good work with the water.
      Luv K xoxox

  8. Bubbles 🍾 says:

    Dearest FoolMe,
    This weekend there’s been a wine festival and of course Australia Day celebrations of all the wineries who suffered devastation from the fires
    We ventured up there today to support them in their recovery
    The vast impact of where the fire travelled was enormous
    It was immense
    We were absolutely dumbstruck today
    The houses, land n
    properties destroyed was more than we could ever imagine
    Extremely eerie and so sad
    The turnout and support from the public was incredible and fantastic
    We’re bouncing back slowly !
    I’m so proud we’re so united !
    We have a long way to go yet … but
    Today was great !
    Luv Bubbles Xx 😘

    1. Fool Me 1 Time says:

      Dear Bubbles,

      I’m sure seeing some of the devastation close up is a lot worse then what we are seeing on TV! I’m happy you were able to get out and support your neighbors and community. It will take a lot of work to rebuild but it can be done! Take care of yourself sweet Bubbles.

      I have to ask this Bubbles, are you able to pet the Koalas that are in your neighborhood or is that a no no! I would not be able to resist giving them what ever it was they needed. I have to admit they are running neck and neck with my wild ponies, both have a special spot in my heart. 😘💞

  9. Whitney says:

    HG I can’t wait to listen to this new material. I’ll buy it right away.
    I perseverate back to my own perceptions, again and again 😔 I just told my friend, the reason the UMR Somatic can’t be monogamous is because he’s so good looking. She said it’s not to do with looks, it’s because he’s a creep. I told her the expert said I was wrong too! (You are the expert HG).

  10. Bubbles 🍾 says:

    Dear Violetta,
    I hope this helps explain
    Luv Bubbles xx 😘

  11. Bubbles 🍾 says:

    Dear Mercy,
    Many thanks for your endearing words sweet one
    Yes, thankfully we are in a safe area
    There’s been disaster since before Xmas and it just continues and now with these courageous volunteers from America 🇺🇸who came here to help …..it’s just heartbreaking 💔as their families are now suffering having lost their loved ones 😔
    Luv Bubbles xx 😘

    1. FoolMe1Time says:

      Oh Bubbles this brings much sadness for everyone. I am heart broken for the Fire Fighters, even knowing they died doing what they loved doing, it doesn’t make it any easier! It’s to bad everyone in the world doesn’t feel the brotherhood all the brave firefighters do. Stay safe Dear Bubbles. 😘💞

  12. Violetta says:

    Bubbles, they showed a picture here of an injured koala sitting next to a dead one, apparently mourning its friend with its head in its hands. The animals have no way of understanding what’s happening. How could this have been prevented, or at least contained?

    1. Mercy says:

      Violetta or anyone interested in helping the wildlife in Australia,


      1. Fool Me 1 Time says:

        Mercy thank you for providing that information. There are so many places collecting to help Australia and its wild life and as always you cannot trust that the money is actually going where it is suppose to go. 😪🐨

        1. Mercy says:

          You’re welcome. I’m like you, cautious about where my money is actually going. This organization is pretty transparent from what Ive read. 40% going toward rescues and only 7% toward personnel because most are volunteers. The rest goes to food, shelter etc. for the animals and advertising.

          1. Fool Me 1 Time says:

            In the true spirit of my empathetic nature I found the Port Macquarie Koala Hospital. You can actually adopt a Koala!! Lol. 🥰🐨

          2. Mercy says:


            Haha you are empathetic and adorable. Love it!

          3. Fool Me 1 Time says:

            I am empathetic, the Koalas are adorable and have stolen my heart. I have always preferred animals to humans and that will never change!

      2. Violetta says:

        Thank you.

    2. K says:

      Those poor koalas!

  13. Bubbles 🍾 says:

    Dear Mr Tudor and lovelies,
    Just heard the news, three American firefighters helping us fight fires, have died when their water bomber tanker plane crashed in New South Wales
    We are speechless and beyond devastated
    Truest of heroes … RIP 😢
    Luv Bubbles xx 😘

    1. Mercy says:

      Bubbles, I’m sorry to hear this. It’s very sad. Thinking of you and everyone battling the fires. I hope you and your family are safe.

  14. K says:

    He sounds more like Type B.

  15. Notme! says:

    Sounds more like a victim MRN

  16. Skipapaki says:

    Just loved the term affable asshole😂😂😂

  17. Renarde says:

    Hey HG, What’s type A and type B?

    Great idea with bolt-ons btw!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you.

      Different types of Upper Lesser. If you see Narc Tales 2, the types are dealt with in there, but in essence Type A is the Affable Arsehole and Type B is the Brutal, Bullying Boaster.

      1. Renarde says:


        Nice one! My God that makes sense. I’ve seen both multiple times.

        And it had been one of my stumbling blocks!


        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome and thank you.

          1. Renarde says:

            Yes, Ive known a few Lessers and they DO appear to be quite split in manner and temperament. Three of them couldnt get away fast enough. But it was only the As where it became close to spilling.

            Oh and may I proffer an addendum? You forgot the Cs. The connivering, contemptible cunts.

            Otherwise, brilliant!

          2. HG Tudor says:

            There is no Type C. Upper Lesser are not conniving.

          3. Renarde says:


            Aww man! That was such a lovely little joke too!

            Bit mean.


          4. HG Tudor says:

            It was accurate.

          5. Renarde says:

            Define accuracy? Or perception? We all hold true to our own logical constructs.

            It’s just where we meet in the middle, our Venn Diagrams.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            My work.

          7. Renarde says:

            That’s a lovely response actually. Thank you.

            Your work must by definition also have not necessarily the opposing view but the idealistic one. Acknowledging that from our own points of view, firm positions are held.

            But equally, both parties, whilst holding their firm and very entrenched views, will simply not get along unless each party reached the descion a compromise must be made. The essence of where the VN meets.

            But it must also come from the Empath as well, surely? Their work too?

            I think this is what is meant by balance.

            Just my perception.

          8. HG Tudor says:

            No, I mean it is my work and therefore it is the accuracy with regard to my work.

          9. Renarde says:

            Your accuracy is not in dispute. At all. You have clearly provided sane, logical and rational support to many.

            My point is, there cannot be a push without a shove. Otherwise narcs would just trample us. Empaths wouldve been wiped out of oblivion. Darwin.

            So why werent we? This is the big question.

            Surely, your work must have the counterpoint by logical definition?

            Otherwise, why have Empaths survived so long?

          10. HG Tudor says:

            You are referring to something else entirely.

            You brought up the concept of Type C Upper Lesser. I pointed out this does not exist. You queried why I pointed this out, I explained for the sake of accuracy because it is based on my work.

            It was nothing to do with Darwin and whatever else you are now referring to.

          11. Renarde says:

            Of course. You’re quite right. Apologies.

          12. Lorelei says:

            I ordered for the lower lesser because that is what I’m looking for on Tinder.

          13. Renarde says:


            Seriously, I was wavering on a female. She is neither boastful or affable. Nor any of those adjectives.

            However, her behaviours ARE very much more of the PA realm, albeight lower end of the middles.

            That is good because it now more properly accords with your view female MRNs. It was just her fury when she was younger that was stumping me.

            The fury would still manifest in later years but not physically.

            My god HE managed that well. He really had her worked out. Sometimes, even now, he surprises me when I know I shouldn’t be.

      2. Witch says:

        HG what exactly do you find entertaining about type A?
        I think my ex was a type A. He lost his shit at me for eating his snicker bar without asking lmao!! I was home alone and it was tempting me. He was dragging it out, going on and on about how I don’t have respect. I made the “mistake” of saying that I think because he was in youngest of his siblings he wasn’t used to his things being used/borrowed… then he started going on about how I’m a bigot for stereotyping the youngest sibling.

        I would have thought you would want to punch them

        1. HG Tudor says:

          On the information provided, your ex does not appear to be Type A UL.

          1. Witch says:

            Ok clearly I don’t know the boundaries for these schools.
            He never hit me, he called me a name once, he never cheated, he wasn’t really a hypocrite or a liar. He was a bit sadistic but didn’t act on it, he was just honest about his thoughts. (I’ve never received a silent treatment from any narc) it’s just when he got mad he got really mad, and he was controlling,
            I don’t know

          2. HG Tudor says:

            That is what the Narc Detector is for.

          3. Witch says:

            I know but he’s long gone now

          4. Anm says:

            witch, that doesn’t even sound like a lesser? maybe a midranger. A midranger can be sadistic, but not act on it. That’s why it is appealing for them to piggy back on a Lesser or a Greater. They live vicariously through others. Midrangers can also be subtle with their silent treatments.

          5. Witch says:

            Hi Anm
            I’m not sure about mid , he has threatened me, he said to me if I cheat on him he would rape me, which is something a lesser would say.
            On 2 occasions he also threw objects (not at me.) but he probably wanted to hit me because that’s what it felt like.
            He also said he tried to kill his dad when he was younger. I also wouldn’t say there was much of a golden period in which I was love bombed and allowed to have my way. He wanted to be around me a lot but there was a battle for control quite early on.
            A mutual friend said that he seems like the kind of person to be a wife beater when he drinks. In fact he told me he doesn’t drink because it makes him worse. So my intuition is telling me upper lesser.
            He did appear to have some awareness like a mid, because he told me once that he knows he is narcissistic, but he said it with an air of arrogance like he didn’t really see it as his problem if others find him to be narcissistic.

          6. K says:

            He reads like a ULN and you most likely got the Bronze Period.

          7. Witch says:

            Yes definitely the bronze period.
            I’ve taken the empath detector and HG told me I’m primarily empath fodder for the upper lesser and upper midranger 😭

          8. K says:

            Wow, I had no idea that the ED could narrow down the schools that would be attracted to you. Empath fodder is funny! Are you still being attacked by fake Amazon BS?

          9. Witch says:

            Yeah, all narcs will be attracted to you as an empath but there are types that will be more attracted to you than others, apparently. HG gives you the schools as part of the ED but not the cadre.
            I’ve noticed that I don’t really attract somatics or cerebrals. I tend to attract Elites and victims, at least that’s my experience.

            And yes I’m still being tormented by this Maleware popup, and it only seems to pop up only when I’m on narcsite so I may have clicked on one of the dodgy ads by mistake.
            I might have to reset my phone, stress!

          10. Kim e says:

            I was getting those amazon things too but they have now gone away. I think last time a did an upgrade they disappeared. Might want to try that

          11. Witch says:

            Thanks Kim

          12. Witch says:

            I’m under attack! When I try to go on narc site I keep getting this fake amazon pop up BS, I’ve cleared my browser history and that worked at first but now it doesn’t ffs

        2. Em says:

          Omg Witch you reminded me. I could not touch any of his food but he could touch mine as I had bought for the whole family. I couldn’t wear his clothes, jumpers as I may stretch them .. even though he was bigger than me. He hinted I was over weight even though I was still smaller than him. He would get so nasty.

          1. Witch says:

            This narc I’m talking about, he wasn’t really a hypocrite so I don’t remember him eating or using my things…
            He was just agressive when he was pissed and overly-sensitive, so he would drag the fight out, he would milk that argument opportunity to the fullest!
            He would shout at me for not answering his questions but I knew he would shout at me anyway if I did answer them.
            I will blame shift and say that it’s actually his fault of leaving chocolate around unattended where a woman could easily find it, so really, he brought it on himself.
            And I’m sorry to hear that that narc your talking about would make comments about what you look like, I bet he looked like a scabby flake at the bottom of the barrel

      3. Em says:

        Hg does bombastic also describe type B

        1. HG Tudor says:


      4. Anm says:

        I did not know that Narc Tales 2 contained that. Which type is Donald Trump?

        That type is my daughter’s father. He is very engaging and has some charisma, but he lacks depth, intelligence, and bullying is his go to defense mechanism. My daughter’s father tried to compliment and engage our custody evaluator- who was very passive. She almost didn’t give him a good recommendation because she noticed that he didn’t seem very caring enough for our daughter. When she mentioned this to him, he yelled at her until she felt guilty for even bringing it up. She then switched it, and said something on the lines that he was ok, and it was me who wasn’t willing to co parent.
        Currently, my daughter’s father is injured, therefore, he isn’t working, and decided to attend one of my daughter’s dr appointments the other day. The courts would hold it against me if I didn’t attend just because he was going to be there, so I went and sat on the other side of the waiting room that him. He always has to get fuel anywhere he goes. Our daughter was playing with toys next to me, and I look over and notice that he found some random grandpa to talk to. I ignored them, but he is so loud, i could still hear what he was talking about. He first talked to the stranger about music, then he claimed he knew a famous person from our city (yeah right), and when things got boring….. he out of no where, asked this old grandpa, “did you know that I am a Transexual?” The old grandpa was shocked and slightly embarrassed this was asked out loud at a children’s doctor waiting room in front of everyone. My daughter’s father then says out loud, “I think they did a good job on my transition surgery. don’t you think?” the old man was so confused. Then my daughter’s father said, “just kidding!but what do you think about all of those sexy models now coming forward that they are really men, or those man athletes who compete in women’s leagues?!?”
        some people started laughing, but I am sick of the obnoxious behavior. I totally understand why Melania always has the resting bitch face. Totally unamused, and perfected the art of not reacting.

        1. K says:

          Type B; Trump reminds me of my ULN.

          HG Tudor says:
          October 7, 2019 at 10:05
          I would be very surprised if Trump resigned. He is a pugilist, an Upper Lesser and therefore he will fight rather than slink away.

          I have not had chance to read your recommendation yet, but thank you for doing so.

          1. BC30 says:

            It has come to pass.

          2. K says:

            HG called it. Narcissists can be quite predictable.

        2. K says:

          Hahahaha…things got boring all right, so along comes the provocative statement, “did you know that I am a Transexual?”.

          Old grandpa is from a different generation so your daughter’s father’s question was perfect for drawing negative proximate fuel (shock, embarrassment and confusion) and he continues to be provocative to draw more proximate fuel from the other tertiary sources in the waiting room, either positive or negative.

          Control (Provocative statements)
          Sense of entitlement
          Lack of boundaries (pediatrician’s waiting room)
          Lack of emotional empathy (for children and everyone in the waiting room)
          Arrogance/grandiosity (he knows a famous person and talking loudly)

          My MMRN was often provocative/arrogant at the pediatrician’s office, too.

          1. Lorelei says:

            My children’s father sauntered into a doctor’s appt this past year and spent five minutes talking to the doctor and then left. First and only time. We both rolled our eyes as he left. His behavior is not obvious to everyone but more often than not it is.

          2. K says:

            Well, that was an interesting hoover! Hahahaha…anything for fuel.

          3. Lorelei says:

            It was facade oriented. He’s ridiculous.

          4. K says:

            Absolutely, it’s all about the Prime Aims and facade maintenance is one of them.

          5. K says:

            Doctor’s appointments are hoover triggers!

          6. Lorelei says:

            I don’t think he was there for me but for the fuel from the doctor and kids. I guess that is a Hoover of sorts?

          7. Lorelei says:

            I used to care that he would bring his “lady friend” around. I hope he takes her to everything. She looks like she sells blow jobs for $15/pop. He embarrasses himself. I know that’s not nice, yes. Am I correct? Yes.

          8. K says:

            Hahahaha…it’s ok to be “not nice”, after all, this is the place to express yourself.

    2. Dorion says:

      Haha, this narc taxonomy is really going down the rabbit hole. Subtypes, subtypes of subtypes… I like it because my mind works naturally that way, structuring and defining everything. Then revising and adjusting the structures. It can be endless.

      1. Renarde says:


        What I’m about to say may not make any sense right now but hopefully it will in future.

        You are absolutely correct that there has to be an end to going down the rabbit hole. Put succinctly, that is what drives people mad. The attempt to understand behaviours so we can know ourselves a little better.

        I’m not the expert on this but what I have found useful is that with the minor players in my life, I’ve been able to cut them off.

        However it’s with the understandably big ones that we suffer.

        Heres the thing. From my experience only time will distinguish big ones from little ones. And it doesn’t necessarily always fall that big equals length of time either. I’ve had it both ways.

        That’s true for me.

        So my TL/DR is who is big and who is little? Put a big QM against the one you are with now. You simply dont have perspective.

        Hope this helps

        P.S What do you think about fractals?

      2. Dorion says:

        Hi Renarde,

        I am all about understanding behavior, actually do that in part for living as well. Formal behavioral (and other) science does similar structuring, conceptualizing, revising etc, it is pretty much the scientific method. It does go way down the rabbit hole into minutia all the time – some useful, some less so, and usually time and more studying tells which. I absolutely believe that time is often necessary to truly see things and figure out our experiences, not only with narcissists but most things. It’s the banality about hindsight, but it is true. I didn’t mean to be cynical about it much.

        You tend to use many abbreviations. What is TL/DR and QM? I don’t see them on the blog’s abbreviation list and don’t recall reading them here before but perhaps it’s my memory and I also haven’t been here very long.

        In what context are you asking me about fractals? My first thought was perhaps the comment on structures reminded you of it? If yes, it can indeed be interesting to see HG’s classifications as a form of fractal system. There is a base, e.g. the schools of narcissists, and then some of the breakdown and subcategories may use quite similar criteria and concepts. I can’t judge in depth as I haven’t gotten into any of the relevant packages or books, mostly an idea based on the public blog. Otherwise, I had a period in college when I was really into fractals and the associated mathematical theories. I made fractals myself using some softwares. I also had many ideas how to potentially apply chaos theory to studying behavior and other things I prefer not to get into, but it’s tricky, and there are better systems models nowadays. If you had something else in mind with your question, please explain.

  18. Kim e says:

    My spleen is crying……………….

Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)

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