The Bare Necessity



I didn’t ask for this you know. I know you did not either but for once let’s not make this about you and let’s talk about me, yes? I never asked to be created so that each and every day I must gather the fuel that is necessary for my existence. Yes, I must eat, I must drink water and I must breathe the air, just as you do, but for me I have another staple requirement of daily living. I must have fuel. Did you choose to always needs food and water? No, you did not. Neither did I. I did not choose to require this fuel either but without it I will cease to exist. What I have created in order to survive in this world will come toppling down and that will be the end of me. How far would you go to eat? At first it is simple enough is it not? You go to the grocery store or you order online from the supermarket and acquire the ingredients to make a meal or receive a pre-cooked one. You chop, you peel, you mash and you stir and you make that meal. A hundred thousand different recipes to choose from. Instead you may remove the packaging, pierce the cling film and pop it in the over or the microwave. Either way you have food, ready to eat and to sustain you. But what if you had no money to acquire this food, how would you quell the rumblings in your stomach? Perhaps you might ask to be given food from neighbours, from food banks or left overs at supermarkets. It is demeaning but you need to eat don’t you, so what does a little pride matter so long as your stomach is filled? However, what if that charity ends? What if the benevolence of friends and neighbours dries up? What would you do then? What if there are no friends and no neighbours? Would you look to survive on berries you find by the roadside, drink the water from a stream? Would that sustain you for long or would you tire of that? Would you scavenge through the bins outside a supermarket for food that has been thrown out but is perfectly edible? Is that stealing? Perhaps not. Would you cope with the stares of pity and disdain from those who saw you surfing a dumpster?

Would you steal from the shops in order to quell the hunger pangs? Snatch a loaf from a bakery, sneak into a house and steal that cooling pie or rifle through the cupboards in order to find something to eat. What if there is no edible food in the dumpster, would you remove the mould and eat what you find, risking illness? What if the supermarkets ran out of food and there was nowhere to steal it from? Would you scavenge from the orchards until that fruit ran out? Would you catch fish or hunt a lamb or grab a chicken in order to cook and eat it over an open fire? What if the usual sources of meat began to vanish, having fallen prey to starving wild animals following the collapse of civilisation, what then? Would you try new sources? Would you, driven by hunger hunt down and eat a sparrow or a robin? How about an owl? Seagull? Would you slaughter a fox in order to eat its meat? Where would you stop? Would you eat another human being in order to survive? When needs must where would you draw the line? How far would you go to feed yourself and your loved ones? Begging, growing you own, stealing, savagery, cannibalism? Do you have a limit or when the chips are down and your stomach is knotted with the agony of starvation would there be no limit? How far would you go? Would you fight another person for a packet of rice? Beat someone up in order to steal their hoard of windfalls? Would you consider their loss of their food source and their injuries an acceptable consequence of your own necessary survival? Would this become collateral damage in the pursuit of survival? Abhorrent as it may sound, I should imagine, when the need really arises, that you would go beyond the unpalatable in order to survive.

Now replace food with the need for fuel and you will understand that I have no choice other than to gather this fuel from different sources and in different ways throughout the course of each day. The consequences which arise may seem regrettable to you but they are purely the result of this need for me to gain fuel. I did not ask to have to do this, but the way I have been created makes it so. In the same way that you would fight to ensure your own survival, rather than curling up and dying in a hole, so must I. Does that make me what would be regarded as a bad person for just doing what I need to in order to exist? I suggest that it does not. I know that what I do has consequences for others. I am not blind nor am I a fool. I understand fully the devastation that I cause as I tear through someone else’s life like a whirlwind, sucking everything in, hurling it about and then discarding it broken and shattered. I have heard the complaints, the stories, the recollections and the accounts. I have heard the cries of dismay, the wails of misery, the screams of terror and the slow sobs of pain. I know what is caused by my actions but what choice do I have? I do not set out to achieve these things but they must always arise as a consequence of what I must do.

I feel no guilt nor remorse. I am devoid of those emotions. Another consequence of the way I have been created. I feel no shame in these actions, no pity for those who suffer from my behaviours and no sense of empathy for those who are remorselessly cut down by my machinations. I am not burdened by such emotions so I do not toss and turn at night, I do not have my sleep peppered by nightmares of torment, I do not sit in anguish and seek absolution for everything I have done and everything that I am to do. Those concepts are not applicable to me. What I do is invite you to understand me. I want you to understand what I am, what I must do and what arises from this and if you were in my shoes then you would do the same. This does not make me a bad person does it? I am a good man who is having to do a bad job. Yes?

86 thoughts on “The Bare Necessity

  1. Whitney says:

    Dear HG, the God.
    Whatever you are, you are. You are yourself. Whatever that is, it doesn’t matter. You exist.

  2. Steve Foo says:

    HG, I’m curious what extra qualities you’d need to consider yourself a bad person?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      None. It is a matter of perspective.

      1. Steve Foo says:

        Figured as much, interesting that you felt the need to make the statement. Force of gaslighting habit?

  3. WhoCares says:

    NOooo, I have not. Aughra was certainly a very memorable creation from the movie. I may have to look that up.

    1. Witch says:

      Check it out, there’s an obvious narc element to it as well

  4. Witch says:

    I loved that move as a child and had a crush on the Goblin King. Now as an adult I’m disturbed because she’s about 15 and he’s like 40

    1. WhoCares says:


      Crushin’ on the Goblin King! You were certainly not alone as a child.

      I still adore this movie (mostly for the visuals; I have a thing for old school creature effects, puppetry, masks etc.)

      I also have found a renewed reason for loving it because it clearly and creatively depicts a narcissistic entanglement.

      1. Witch says:

        I may have to watch it again soon

        Have you seen the dark crystal Netflix series?

        1. WhoCares says:


          I just watched a trailer. Cool. So much of it is true to the original characters. And I am glad that they refined the Gelflings a bit… always annoying when the ‘good guys’ seem a bit two-dimensional and stiff…and the ‘bad guys’ have more depth, intrigue and charisma to their personality.

      2. Blackcoffee says:

        Love this movie, and as I began the process of healing post-NC, I thought of the speech at the end. It all made sense.

        1. WhoCares says:

          Hi Blackcoffee (great name by the way),
          I love that movie too – and yes – the speech at the end!

  5. WokeAF says:

    Also HG I understand the frustration of knowing and existing in an absolute fucking Reality that is not the majority perspective.
    Luckily i spent a hefty chunk of life IN the majority perspective , so I can cope.

    Even tho our (basically opposite) Reality perspectives are horrific sounding to the other – Id wager you have more in yours than I have in mine! Lol

  6. WokeAF says:

    It’s not a “fake” sense of self- it’s the ONLY sense of individual self. Literally everything you think you are – is actually ego/construct.
    Ego isn’t fake or bad. It’s a framework for What Is to experience through.

    Without it “you” don’t exist as a separate being. You’d just be experience.

    All very special sounding and delightful conceptually but totally accessible for non-narcs.

    Makes me wonder tho HG. When your creature dies, do you just get obliterated?

  7. WokeAF says:

    U da man

  8. WokeAF says:

    Let me reply with my correct moniker
    HG I just emailed u to erase a comment pls in case my MR gets on here

    Meanwhile I’ll repost what I said

    Yes the construct is the ego
    But so far it appears the ego/construct is necessary for any sort of “individual” experience so there’s no getting rid of it entirely and you wouldn’t want to. That comes later

    most ppl think they “have” an ego so there’s a tiny gap and I guess the construct develops organically
    Narcs can’t develop construct organically in childhood , so they deliberately create a construct where they can be whoever they want without anyone touching it or tearing it down
    Bc it’s not organic they have to create it every day . It’s a false world. Reflection (Fuel) sustains it.
    The awareness was shut down bc too much pain of not being allowed to organically create a construct, so the awareness is unformed and the construct runs the show

    If the construct got torn down there’s be no organically grown ego for awareness to exist through and they’d be rendered helpless drooling half wits

    I think

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It has been addressed.

  9. WokeAF says:

    Ha!! No I don’t imbibe in general. This is me sober – so I guess u can imagine why I don’t need pot.

    Too bad too 🇨🇦 Plentiful 🥗

  10. WokeAF says:

    I’m dealing with a teen who’s taken himself off his anxiety meds. Also I’m injured and can’t work. But life is good !
    My phone inexplicably won’t let me like any comments. Also I can only pull up narcsite on Safari not chrome . Annoying bc my email directs right to chrome . Which won’t open to let me reply. I have to come into Safari and try to find what comment I’m replying to in the thread manually and I’m about over it
    So I only come out when I have the time to frig around

    Also Good to see u 👋🏻

    1. Violetta says:

      WAF: Nobody can Like these days. It just says, “Loading.” Replies go where they want, so I hope you see this.

      I suspect WP has been taken over by the IT department of my recent employer, which I’ve taken to calling, ‘F U.” “U” being short for university, of course.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        You may find that the Like issue has now been fixed. Let me know.

        1. Violetta says:

          HG: The Likes issue looks fixed.

          Whom did you intimidate?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha, I stared down “Loading” and off he fucked.

  11. WokeAF says:

    Yes the construct is the ego
    But so far it appears the ego/construct is necessary for any sort of “individual” experience so there’s no getting rid of it entirely and you wouldn’t want to. That comes later

    most ppl think they “have” an ego so there’s a tiny gap and I guess the construct develops organically
    Narcs can’t develop construct organically in childhood , so they deliberately create a construct where they can be whoever they want without anyone touching it or tearing it down
    Bc it’s not organic they have to create it every day . It’s a false world. Reflection (Fuel) sustains it.
    The awareness was shut down bc too much pain of not being allowed to organically create a construct, so the awareness is unformed and the construct runs the show

    If the construct got torn down there’s be no organically grown ego for awareness to exist through and they’d be rendered helpless drooling half wits

    I think 🤔

  12. WhoCares says:


    “I’m having trouble making myself read Sitting Target and Sex, both of which I gave myself for Christmas.”

    For the longest time I held back from wanting to read Sitting Target. Because in contrast to the reality injection I had received through reading here and other books, I *wanted* to hang on to the pretty little story in my head about the day that I met my narcissist. It was as if I managed to preserve that last shred of what I perceived as goodness, I would have *something* to hang on to.

    You know that scene in Labyrinth after Sarah eats the enchanted peach? And the orbs float around her, distracting her and depicting the fanciful and extravagant costume ball? I wanted to keep my glass orb depicting that meeting scene in my head. Reality felt flat and quite sobering after reading Sitting Target.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Most honest.

      1. WhoCares says:

        Thank-you, HG.

        Of course, after Sarah ‘woke up’ and really scrutinized the peach, it was worm-infested and rotten at the core.

        1. Violetta says:


          Ah, but Bowie and his Magic Mullet….

          1. WhoCares says:

            “Bowie and his Magic Mullet”
            Indeed Violetta – in some ways the allure is as mysterious as the original allure to my own narcissist in the beginning.
            Anyway, with Bowie – it’s the whole package.
            Pun intended.

            And what can I say – I am dating myself – but eighties fantasy flicks were my escapism.

  13. Lorelei says:

    Woke—just saying good day to you. It’s been awhile since I’ve chatted with you. Hope all is well.

  14. WokeAF says:

    Ok one more HG- humour me ? 😬

    OUR thoughts , think that they are a person , thinking thoughts.

    YOUR thoughts think that they are…the person?

  15. WokeAF says:

    HG, I don’t know if this will interest you or not- but while I was not seeking “enlightenment “- I WAS seeking the Truth of existence. At one point I was presented with the choice of continuing to exist (as an identified-with construct) – or risk “death” for a chance at finding out the Truth.
    I chose to die, if I must.
    My heart was going a million miles a minute and there was a tunnel sensation. Once I made my choice, (to die , if need be) -my heart immediately resumed normal pace and – well, nothing happened.

    Week or so later “I” disidentified spontaneously from the construct.
    I still reside in the construct , to a good degree. It appears to be necessary. Knowing I’m not the construct is the relief. The construct only has power when “I” temporarily fall prey to its illusion.


  16. WokeAF says:

    Funny because – to US- our construct *our* Creature. -identification with our construct is what causes all our pain.

    Makes sense that a bunch of Constructs are the world leaders. The Constructs cause all the havoc.

  17. WokeAF says:

    Is the Creature , the conscious awareness of a small unloved , terrified boy?
    Have you As the Construct, “possessed” the awareness , so to speak?
    If so- then yeah, you defin are ….at constant risk of Annihilation so … . DAMN.

    but then you also can’t exist WITHOUT the Creature, if that’s so – if he goes- you go

    1. WokeAF says:

      WOW this is really sinking in
      OF COURSE entitlement. Of course you can do what you want – you HAVE to be able to , to stay “alive”. Of COURSE attention seeking. 🤦‍♀️ it’s the only way to exist!
      Of course blameshifting – blame would hinder entitlement .
      I see how the pillars all hold each other up.

      Damn no WONDER my MMR gets pissed when I sleep in LOL With my lack of attention, denial of control -I’m threatening his existence!

      Ok so…damn. So…when I speak to you, HG, am I speaking to pure thought? Pure construct?
      When I speak to you, (or any narc), is the half developed, unformed, totally incapable of survival in this world , remnants of whatever existed before you took the reigns…LISTENING?
      Can the Creature hear me right now?


      1. WhoCares says:


        I enjoyed reading your thought process on this. Thanks for sharing.

        1. WokeAF says:

          Yeah it was an epiphany night . 👍🏻

  18. WokeAF says:

    well every human ego thinks that’s what it “is” –
    It’s the human condition-
    -in the majority, there seems to be this idea that one is a separate “spirit” encased in a body .
    What happened here was the
    Is-ness disidentified from the construct. WokeAF is my construct – what IS , uses the construct of WokeAF in this particular physical life dream.
    In night dream Is-ness (I) forgets this construct and may be a wolf, or a male human, or often gets lucid and recalls the WokeAF construct exists in physical life but for now anything is possible.
    Then ISness wakes up from slumber, the memories of this construct come back, and hup-2 we’re in the game .

    I’ve experienced that “I” exist outside of my construct , although not as a separate being.

    Do you not exist outside of your construct at ALL?
    How would there be awareness? The construct doesn’t have any independent awareness that I am aware of

    Thx for engaging, HG

    1. NarcAngel says:

      Is your constructs name HighAF?
      I’m just teasin. Don’t send the wolf after me.

    2. janna leonard says:

      I agree entirely with you, but I say it/see it in a different way. What you call ‘contruct’, I call ‘ego’ which is a fake sense of self which causes all our suffering and is not truly who we are. The true Self is much vaster and connected to all others and all of life. It is an awareness or consciousness. Maybe people with NPD can only function from the ego and cannot connect with/develop the Self?

      1. lisk says:

        That makes a lot of sense, janna.

  19. Susan says:

    Well. Now I am a Tudorite. Trained by the best. So, my answer is based on Logic, not ET. The way you choose to exist stems, in part, from your world view. Mine is different. Whether you are good or bad doesn’t seem to be the issue to me. You do many, many good things and I love you for making that choice.

    The other part is hereditary. While I think the way we live is a choice, there is evidence that supports that the brain is different in individuals with pathologies. What that means to me is that they are wired differently and even if they want to change it will be a difficult path. But they would have to want to change in the first place. Do you want to change if you were possibly born with a tendency toward a condition, your behavior patterns and habits began developing in early childhood, and are ingrained, and this pattern works well for you? HG admits he goes to counseling as a mandate with strings attached. But does going to counseling, even knowing what you are doing is detrimental to others, etc, going to result in change? No. No one changes without their consent

    I don’t understand the concept of fuel either but I’m not sure exactly how I am qualified to judge whether someone experiences the drive to maintain it. I experience the behaviors that are causing the narcissist to approach life in a very different way than I do. Call it fuel or supply or sometime else, it’s a drive I can’t comprehend. We have a lot to learn about narcissism and psychopathology. I think it’s much more complex than believing they are just using this as an excuse for behaving in ways that hurt others.

    1. lisk says:

      I doubt they are using *it* as an excuse. They’re just going about their lives.

  20. Violetta says:

    Ok, I’ve been having a problem, might as well spill it here.

    I’m having trouble making myself read Sitting Target and Sex, both of which I gave myself for Christmas. Obviously it’s not trouble handling HG’s prose style, which I love or I wouldn’t be on here. I started reading ST, found myself nodding in agreement repeatedly, but I have this reluctance to pick it up.

    Same thing with the videos on YT: there’s this moment of hesitation before I listen, as if I were about to get a vaccine and wondered how much it would hurt. When I actually did listen to “Am I the Narcissist?” and the one where the narc explains to his victim that “we are all worried about you,” followed by textbook gaslighting, I actually laughed, it was so true to form. Yep, I know those speeches.

    So why the reluctance? Is it the absence of the Tudoristas with whom I can bounce off reactions?

    All the (in effect) layoffs at my last job (shall I refer to it as Fuck U?) have reawakened those childhood fears of bring overly smart and underly (yeah, I know it’s not a word) normal. My mentor (who’d been there 20 freaking years) also got pushed out. Academia used to be a safe place for bright, weird people. Now that the mid-rangers are taking over, they want replicas of themselves: angels (overwhelming or with dirty faces) with lots of Scientific Methods and no competence in any actual subject.

    I have to keep reminding myself that even though HG is technically on no-one’s side but his own (if even that), he is certainly not on the side of the Mid-Rangels.

  21. SMH says:

    HG, Do narcs get a sort of panicky feeling when fuel is running low? Suffocating? If not, how would you describe the feeling? And does it come on slowly or all at once?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      A sense of unease, of impending dome, a feeling of anxiety, panic, severe restlessness, increased paranoia, detachment from surroundings. It is an incremental process as fuel reaches low levels so it will start with mild unease, a degree of restlessness, a sense of suspicion that something feels wrong and increases in intensity and adds further concern/issues the lower it becomes.

      1. NarcAngel says:


        “A sense of unease, of impending dome, a feeling of anxiety, panic, severe restlessness, increased paranoia, detachment from surroundings. It is an incremental process as fuel reaches low levels so it will start with mild unease, a degree of restlessness, a sense of suspicion that something feels wrong and increases in intensity and adds further concern/issues the lower it becomes.”

        What do you say to the charge that the concepts of “ceasing to exist” “the creature” and “fuel” are just born of narc drama to set them apart from other mere mortals? That these are just concepts to assert superiority even when it comes to illnesses of the mind? There are people who are not narcissists who would describe these experiences as well. Sometimes to the point of suicide. How are their experiences discounted as something less in your mind and as not requiring the same behaviours you assert are needed to exist?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I do not know of any individual who described a need for fuel who is not a narcissist. I do not know of any individual that refers to “The Creature” that accords with what that creature is who is not a narcissist. I am aware some individuals talk of feeling like they will cease to exist, but for different reasons. They are not concepts to assert superiority, NA, they are how the narcissism manifests. There is no grandiosity linked to them.

          1. NarcAngel says:


            Bear with me because I don’t know if I can articulate this very well (probably
            The question of superiority even in illness came from a conversation where someone mentioned to another about a 3rd party’s behaviour. Person 1 said they thought the 3rd party suffered from something unnamed that manifests as anxiety, paranoia, and emptiness causing their unwanted behaviours (possibly a disorder or addiction). Person 2 responded that 3rd party was just an ass and why does everyone have to be given a title or diagnosis in order to make them seem special and explain away their behaviours? That 3rd party was no different from anyone else with problems – he just likes to think he is and alludes to being “different” as an excuse.

            It made me think about you saying the narcissist’s superiority is such that if I have a forehead – they have a fivehead. I know narcissism exists but I could understand that Person 2 just thought 3rd party was trying to set themselves apart by having their restlessness, emptiness, and paranoia be “special” and not just like everyone else suffering from depression for example. That possibly the narcissism would dictate that in order to assert superiority over having the afflictions of a mere mortal.

            MB for example has described having some feelings similar to yours but she is not a narcissist. It is in the behaviours used to remedy the feelings that differ. This might be why it is so hard for some to wrap their heads around someone in their life being a narcissist (in addition to the addiction) and needing “fuel” as opposed to thinking they are someone that just needs more nurturing and understanding. Also why some charge that if you (being aware) just stop thinking you’re special or superior that you could change.

            To be clear – I am not questioning that narcissism exists of course. It’s just rather a hard concept to grasp because the narcissist can respond normally in many ways and I think that’s why it’s not generally acknowledged in the mainstream and believed to be a choice rather than an actual disorder sprouting from genetic pre-disposition and lack of controlled environment.

            Bottom line: How to get across to people that you believing you will cease to exist if you don’t extract fuel is any different than people believing they would be better off dead rather than harm others when they suffer from depression. That it’s not just a one-up or a choice. I hope some of this made sense and didn’t just annoy you, but I know about hope haha.

            Thank you for your response.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            No, it did not annoy me NA. The fact that we respond “normally” is entirely necessary. If we are red of tooth and claw all of the time, we would have real problems acquiring victims. We have to fit in with the majority perspective and our narcissism does that (to varying degrees dependent on school) so that we are camouflaged, better able to get closer to our prey and better able to draw it in and control it. If a victim believes their (narcissist) lover is like them, they will be less likely to reject them and when the devaluing behaviours appear, they will also, given by the product of the addiction (ET) cling on and be less likely to reject the narcissist. You make decisions as victims because (like any decision) you believe it is the best course of action. You are repeatedly misled into doing what you think is the best course of action (1) by the behaviour of the narcissist which often masks what is really happening and (2) my the obscuring effect of ET on your decision-making (“I know he hits me, but he is lovely to me a lot of the time” – that is not a logical response). Nearly nobody would get with and stay with someone who abused them from the moment they met them and was never even slightly pleasant. The fact that we seem so normal is part design and part the effect of ET and of course by causing people to think it is a choice, what do victims than do? They remain trying to change the narcissist (thus allowing us to continue to assert control and gain fuel (what we need) and feeding their addiction (what the addiction needs) and embark on a Fool´s Errand. You are misled into thinking we have a choice because ultimately that serves our purposes.

          3. NarcAngel says:

            Thank you for the time and attention in your response. It is appreciated.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

      2. Susan says:

        Intrigued again! Bookmarked this. Never heard anyone express that conglomeration of feelings. I’ve felt some of them but I’ll have to think of how I fixed it bc I know fuel wasn’t the fix. I’m going to try an unpack this in light of what I’ve read in your articles, after I listen to my latest purchase, Knowing HG, and the narcs I know. Thanks

      3. SMH says:

        Thanks for that vivid description, HG. It almost seems like a panic attack with dissociation. If you were to say to an intimate partner something like ‘I feel it coming on’ or ‘I feel anxious’ and the partner knew of your condition, would there be anything they could do to resolve it? That is, could they give you a fuel injection if you asked for one? If they could, what would it look like?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes, SMH, provide Pure Fuel please see

          1. SMH says:

            It would be good if you could bring awareness to narcissists that they have a condition. This condition has symptoms. If one recognizes the symptoms, there is a potential cure – Pure Fuel! I know it is impossible because one cannot get through to narcissists that there is something wrong with them, but it would save a lot of relationships!

          2. HG Tudor says:

            I understand your point SMH, however increasing awareness, reducing ET and utilising logic will mean not getting into those relationships in the first place. There is no point in trying to save them, they cannot be saved.

          3. SMH says:

            Reality bites, but one can dream. I also thought after I wrote that in all honesty, narc relationships are exhausting for empaths, even when one realizes what the narc needs.

      4. lisk says:

        A sense of mpending dome? That’s be some pretty heavy stuff, especially if it were Brunelleschi’s.

        Anyway, I can remember being with Narcx in this state. I can still see and feel the slow build-up of panic and then . . . BAM! the lashing out.

        Had I known what it was, I would have known what it was, and would have been out of there sooner.

      5. singasongy says:

        so HG, those feelings you have…. that mild unease, the degree of restlessness and a sense of suspicion that something feels wrong…..those are all the feelings I have when Im around a person like you after awhile. it might take a minute it might take a month it might take a few months but that is the same feeling I get when I’m around a person that I get a dark vibe from….Its like a spidey sense and it gets stronger and stronger the more and more time goes on. Shoot, at the store the other day I felt so gross around someone in the same aisle as me. I just felt such a bad vibe and I wanted to get away from him. YOU WANT more of a person to get fuel to get rid of the feelings and I want to stay away to get rid of those feelings. Again, flip of the coin.


        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          Singasongy, I feel the same way. At first, I attributed it to the anxiety caused by the idea that I was about to kiss a person that wasn’t my husband, but the feeling of unrest, anxiety, and stomach cramps never left during the whole entanglement. I feel so fantastic after going NC. I feel the same way near the narc at work so I have reduced any interaction with him unless it is strictly necessary because I need to sign a form or something similar, and life has improved.

      6. Kel says:

        Now I wonder, and think, that’s what happened to my brother before his physical death. He withdrew. He would be in the same room, but didn’t talk, he wasn’t himself anymore, he was just this quiet, weak person, who didn’t interact. He died inside before he physically died.

      7. alexissmith2016 says:

        Interesting! Pant man( because he is incredibly irritating to the majority of people) suffers with this alot. But then when he is being fueled he is equally unbearable as his fuel ‘high’ reaches unprecedented levels. Makes me want to puke! Every high is followed by a massive low.

        I suspect he is incapable of having many fuel sources on the go because he is too dull so when one fuel source leaves him dry he goes into meltdown pretty quickly. He has the biggest contrast of highs and lows and the must frequent fuel crises of all Ns I’ve observed.

        He also regularly engages with causing havoc for large corporate or anyone in authority. He overspends, considerably too, purchasing things he cannot afford. HG, would this be because he struggles to get positive fuel from IPs therefore he has to spend lots of money to get a positive fuel high and then go after negative fuel from stirring up trouble anywhere he can find it. He tries to outsmart the corporates and seeks to win stupid little things even when it is detrimental to him emotionally and financially, he simply cannot let go. He often loses though, because he’s a twat!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          See “The Narcissist Has Stopped Giving”.

  22. Poonam says:

    I can understand the urge for supply better now. I feel sorry for the narc in my life but I know there’s nothing I can do to help him. I have been reading your articles recently and they have helped me enormously. Thank you HG

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

  23. About the eyes says:

    I have seen a narcissist die due to lack of fuel. I knew the moment I send him to a nursing home he would die due to lack of fuel. But is was him or me. I know how to kill narcissists. Narcissists literally die when you isolate them. So I understand the comparison with food very well.

  24. Kel says:

    Is it right for another narcissist to use you HG? To ruin your life or even one moment of your day? Is it right for a serial killer like Bundy to say, Hey I know it’s wrong killing people, but that’s what works for me, so deal with it? A narcissist knows right from wrong even if he doesn’t have a conscience or guilt, and he understands why it’s wrong. I’ve heard other narcissist’s, in person, who’ve said the same line – that it would be the death of them- whatever the subject is we’re discussing. You are aware you’re a narcissist, you help victims of your kind, but if you were given the choice to stop being a narcissist, you’ve stated you wouldn’t take it, you wouldn’t free yourself from the hunger for fuel, you would choose to stay a narcissist. Sorry, no empathy for you or your kind – it’s called survival after all- isn’t it – for all the empaths, normals, and other creatures of this world.

  25. Renarde says:

    I take issue. Big issue.

    Would you slaughter a fox in order to eat its meat?

    WHAT???? Well, youd have to set the dogs on us first!

    Where would you stop?

    Before setting the dogs on us!

    Seriously, it’s actually a very good analogy. Difference is, non narcs can take a nuanced approach. Such as stealing during starvation is fine by my book. Eating Tiddles or your first born clearly isnt. Surely only the aware have power, resources, energy and skills to reject more obvious energy grabs? In preference to something better fulfilling. To carry on with your analogy, the Les would be stealing from the bins outside McD whilst the Ultra has seduced the night guard in the Fortunm & Masons Food Hall. And now has Foie Gras coming out of their ears.

    He will then use the excess to drive a Seduction Hoover against Deidree in Accounts.

  26. Janna says:

    I still find it hard to understand to be honest. Without food we would all die, but without fuel you wouldn’t die.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes, we would, not in the sense you are familiar with, but we would cease to exist.

      1. Janna says:

        Can you explain more please? Have you ever tried it?

        1. Janna says:

          Can you explain in detail in real terms please? For example, the words “fuel” and “supply”… what exactly do they mean? Attention? Also, when you say you would cease to exist, you mean short term right? So what happens and what does it feel like?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Read the book “Fuel” it is all explained there.

      2. Renarde says:


        I do find this one of the most perplexing, baffling and confusing parts of narcissism. Hands down. I just cant understand it.

        1. janna leonard says:

          Me neither! I can’t get my head around it at all.

          1. Violetta says:

            I sort of understand, because when I was 9, I got in trouble rather than be ignored. I felt if no one knew I existed, maybe I didn’t. The Violetta who fell in a forest with no one to hear: did she make a sound?

            The difference is, I would have preferred positive attention had there been a way to get it. It’s the soggy potato chip (crisp) theory: kids would prefer a crisp one, but if they’re starving, they take what they can get.

            HG often seems to prize negative attention above positive. He only encourages the positive stuff so he can reel IPPSs in and attach them firmly enough to start the negative stuff without as much chance that the victim will run off screaming and never return.

          2. NarcAngel says:

            I don’t know if you made a sound when you fell in the forest, but I’ll bet you slept like a log.

            I know. I’ll boom tish myself out.

            Negative fuel is more highly prized because it is usually more challenging to obtain and requires some manipulation. So it is caused by them (we are the puppet and they are in control) and directed at them, so is therefore more satisfying. I often read people asking why the narcissist turned on them when they were providing top quality positive fuel. This positive/negative fuel extraction is explained better in the book Fuel for anyone who hasn’t read it. Highly recommend.

          3. HG Tudor says:


      3. janna leonard says:

        Have you ever tried it and what happened?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Not yet.

      4. when9793 says:

        I quite understand. It’s a bit difficult for me to understand, though, why others don’t.

      5. WokeAF says:

        When I woke up and disidentified with MY construct – (the character that is WokeAF) – it was a massive relief.
        I’ve often wondered why the same Isn’t true for you.
        Isn’t it possible you are SO identified with your construct that you think it IS you? (More than the average bodymind who is overly identified with the body and fears physical death)

        1. HG Tudor says:

          That is precisely how the narcissist operates.

    2. Whitney says:

      HG you are an innately distinctive person. You exist in many ways. You found a purpose in life. You are helping millions. You have hobbies and interests and talents. You have real attributes that are distinct to you. You are genuine, with us, and honest. You are unique.

      Your body and brain are not fleeting, they are real. Nothing is changing. The feeling of ceasing to exist, is not real. It is an error. You exist. Negative feelings underneath are wrong. They were programmed during development. They are just feelings and they are not real. Your brain and body are real, and nothing is changing.

      You are not empty. You are rich.

      1. WokeAF says:

        Your body and brain ARE fleeting
        EVERYTHING is changing- in every moment
        The feeling of ceasing to exist, IS real.
        You DO NOT exist.

        What I don’t get is why that’s terrifying to HG any more than to the average “person” who hasn’t experiencially understood it.
        This is why I think HG is awareness in an extreme perception of separation . That would explain why it’s MORE terrifying than to the average joe.

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