Quiz : The Hoover


How well do you understand The Hoover? Are you full of Logic and a Cement Shoe Empath or are you still learning and need to grab that Lampost of Logic to avoid being sucked by in by the narcissists hoovering?

Take this quiz and find out how good your knowledge is, about the hoover.

Welcome to  The Hoover Quiz


How well do you understand hoovers?

Are you at risk of being sucked in or will you prevail against them?

Put your Narc Knowhow to the test.

20 questions with 5 points for each correct answer.

(You may take the quiz as many times as you wish)

How many Hoover Carriers or Conduits are there?
If I cause massive wounding to the narcissist then
The narcissist has sent me a text message after a period of silence for one month, but I have not replied, what is the likely response of the narcissist
The narcissist has driven past my house. What is this?
If I keep open the electronic route for the narcissist to hoover me then...
A friend of the narcissist has telephoned me to ask how I am. I have not heard from this friend for 7 or 8 weeks. What is this?
If there is a Hoover Trigger then....
The purpose of a hoover is...
I have walked past where the narcissist has worked, therefore
The narcissist always hoovers the victim to draw them back into the Formal Relationship
The narcissist has kept photographs of me, therefore
I have not blocked the narcissist on the telephone therefore
The narcissist has telephoned me but I failed to answer therefore
I am the Former IPPS. The narcissist has moved in a new intimate partner, therefore
I am repeatedly being hoovered even though I am not contacting the narcissist, what is most likely going on?
If I am with somebody new, in terms of a new romantic relationship then
The narcissist will always hoover me because
If I escape the narcissist and I become the Former IPPS then
I am at a social gathering and the narcissist is there, he/she has looked at me but done nothing more, this is
Will I be hoovered?

321 thoughts on “Quiz : The Hoover

  1. Caroline-is-fine says:

    SMH & Kim,
    Are you guys still on this thread? I’m pretty upset…I’ve got a new one, when it comes to what narcs will do…at least, in my experience.

    1. Kim e says:

      CIF and SMH
      Hi, We are on whatever thread you call us to!!!! Whats up lady? Share away.

      1. Caroline-is-fine says:

        Thanks, Kim…I’m overwhelmed to even explain this. Yes, it’s about the nex (who else?). Let me try to get my head together, so it’s not a novel. I’ll be back when I can again (an overload of work calls right now – next 2 weeks are jammed). I’ve been perfectly fine, in my little peaceful, happy bubble in my corner of the world, having no clue anything’s been brewing (other than what I previously knew)…meanwhile, my nex has been a busy a**, involving me in the most bizarre way, in HIS life…when I’m not even IN his life! Well, now I know how very busy he’s been, trying to pull me into his self-created drama. Gawd! It’s so convoluted & so weird – boggles my Empath mind. He’s not a Greater, but it’s definitely like the edgy (calculating, possibly malice) aspect of an UMR.

        Hope you & SMH are doing well. Thanks for “being there.” It makes me feel better, just knowing that… in that Empath way. XO.

        1. Kim e says:

          CIF & SMH,
          CIF, take your time and get it all down and out at one time. I will pop popcorn and get out the wine for reading.

          1. Caroline-is-fine says:

            Hi, Kim…don’t think I can talk about this in too much detail, as far as all of what he is doing/saying. It’s upsetting me too much to get into it all, but I’ll do what I can…may need HG…will have to see, depending on if there is actual movement of him (or others!) toward me – or malice from him (still not exhibited), of a form I can’t ignore. I still don’t think I’m in physical danger, but I feel like he’s jealous, possessive and losing it – I’ve been told what’s going on, by a close friend of mine, who doesn’t talk to him/know him personally – but knows a few of his friends… and she was so confused at what she caught wind of and was worried about me, so she called me…she’s even more freaked now that I explained he has NPD. No, I promise, she’s not a flying monkey. One big nugget: Imagine my nex getting engaged to a woman…then breaking it off and telling her it’s because he’s still “in love” with me (yes, you read that right) – and imagine she finds out exactly who I am, ’cause it was easy to do – and she now hates me – even though I’ve been NC with him this entire time, except when he shows up to stare at me. Yes, this is one aspect of my new, nutty reality. Also, him moving close to me, for part of the year…that’s no lie – he’s planning it, so far. Yes, more crazy…yet he still has not actually DONE anything to me. Yet, I feel sick to my stomach, again. I told my friend why I don’t want to know anymore, and she totally gets it…she is the type to keep her mouth shut on all of this, to everyone. So now I need to go back to living my life — and until such time as this actually impedes in my physical life, I just need NC. I keep thinking he’s not going to follow through on this, as I have given him zero encouragement and only wounding through ignoring.
            That’s my plan – calm down, NC as I was. And then HG/security – if this turns ugly, in my actual life. I feel down right now…it’s drained me. But I’m resilient, so I won’t stay stuck in this zone too awful long. Later on, I may find this comical. Not yet.

        2. Kristin says:

          I am so very sorry you are going through this. Like you said, you are strong and you have HG and your friends here. Be safe. Sending big hugs your way! 😘💜

          1. Caroline-is-fine says:

            Thanks so much, Kristin – so sweet of you. 💛 You lifted my spirits. I hope you are doing well.💛

        3. SMH says:

          CIF, I am here too. Sorry this is happening with Nex and of course to see you back because of it. It sounds like he is becoming dangerous if he is showing up to stare at you and living near you part of the year. I think you’ve said that he has been violent, though never to you. It’s quite creepy to realize that someone is stalking you — please be careful and be on the alert. He might be doing things you don’t even know about and he does not have to do anything directly to you to be harassing you (as MRN did to me multiple times).

          As for the woman he was engaged to – he’s triangulating her but you can’t do anything except tell her that you have not had anything to do with him for ages and she dodged a bullet. I understand that you do not want to get involved, however, so just keep your ears peeled and your eyes open.

          HG, what is the relationship or the line between hoovering and stalking? We all get caught up in the language of hoovers and what that implies whereas a lot of hoovering falls into the stalking category.

          Smooches, CIF. We are here for you! 💙

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Stalking is hoovering.

          2. Caroline-is-fine says:

            Hi, SMH💙! Thanks for your very kind concern and thoughtful message💙…So true – we really have no idea what narcissists are up to – could not have predicted this.
            Although I feel sorry for the woman who got tangled up with him, I have zero plans to ever talk to her. If I had to guess, I’d say he was future-faking her for fuel, and I hardly want to tell her that, nor do I feel I should, as I can see it bigtime backfiring. I don’t know her personally, so I have no foundation to trust her. I doubt my input would do anything but create bigger drama and get me pulled into the chaos. I hope she does not contact me, which is nearly impossible, except in person (emails/my address are not linked to me/no social media – and only family and close friends have my new number, BUT my nex knows my location(s), so there’s that….and who knows what he’ll do – apparently, not me!).
            I’ve joked on here before about “bad Lifetime movies,” but this new scenario does feel exactly like one, almost too far-fetched to believe. I just keep telling myself this is not about me and not MY life…and if it becomes my life in a way that impacts, then I will need assistance/extra measures.
            Hope you are doing well & staying well, my friend.💙

          3. SMH says:

            Thanks, HG. Hoovering somehow sounds more benign than stalking…

            CIF, I was just going through the possibilities. I wouldn’t contact her either! But she might find you, so it’s good you know what happened. I really worry about your Nex, his obsessions and what he is capable of. I hope it does not get any worse and you become an Unsolved Mystery! (Joking – I know this is serious stuff!)

            Do take care of yourself and please check in occasionally to let us know that you are okay.


  2. SMH says:

    Kim e, I am on the fence about Odin. He is edgier than doc (the bad boy thing) but a lot more multi-dimensional than MRN. He might be controlling. Could he be an N? Yes. Could he just have some N traits? Yes. I haven’t met doc. I’ve spent hours with Odin. Regardless, I don’t think doc is my type, same as OM was not my type, same as other guys I went on dates with after I met Odin (there were two) were not. It’s possible that lightening will strike. But I really don’t think so and doc knows that I don’t think so. He knows about Odin. I’m not leading him on or anything. Odin is not keeping me from dating other people either. I am not obsessed.

    Even after two years, I think if I saw even a hint of MRN my heart would be in my mouth and I would panic. I am not at all surprised that your ET went a bit haywire. I think if it happens again it will be easier, and it is bound to happen again because you live so close to each other. It’s like being exposed to a bit of the virus and then more and more, until you build up immunity. And you will. Stopping Googling the numbers will help!!

    Your dinner sounds great to me (I am starving at the moment!). I am meant to return at the end of this month but I’ve already had one flight cancelled and now they are implementing a quarantine here. No flights in because no one will want to come so no flights out. Worst case scenario I stay for a few more weeks or fly to Dublin and then to the US from there. Or maybe HG can pull some strings and get me on a private jet :).


    1. Kim e says:

      You sound logical regarding Odin so I say Carry On!!!!!

      My ET going haywire is an understatement. I still feel the effects of it today. Really floored me. I got a 2nd jolt today when I got a calendar reminder that he has drill this week. It was deleted as soon as my brain came out of it’s shock.
      But I am working my way forward………..just like the N, I refuse to go back. Nothing there for me.

      All the roads, ramps, streets, alleys, avenues into Chicago are back open today. The buses, EL and Metra are back up and running. Sidewalk sitting for resturants. My office has requested that unless it is absolutely necessary to go to the office that you do not. So I will not this week but next Monday I plan on it. I am so excited to do this. Only issue I foresee is having to get up at 4:00…..LOL. Just like the good old days.

      Next week also booked with hair, doctor, and Kathi’s birthday. I will not know what to do with myself…..so much excitment!!!! This really is pathetic that mandane things as a hair cut are exciting.

      Why are they implementing a quarantine there? Has the virus started there again? What are your feelings about coming back to NYC? Your renter moved correct? How are your kid(s)?

      Gotta run and earn some money.

      1. SMH says:

        Kim e, they are implementing a quarantine as a political stunt, to look as if they are actually doing something. It’s asinine. There is hardly any virus here anymore and the rules are full of holes anyway.

        The reason you are not going to work is the same reason I have not seen Odin – the govt making people work from home. He lives 200 miles away so it’s really even too far for a daytime visit either way, no hotels open etc. Doc lives closer so he will probably visit.

        Haircut sounds good to me! I’ve been trimming my own. Can’t get to the dentist never mind to the doctor. It’s all very annoying. I feel trapped here in the Nanny State and can’t wait to get home.

        Kids are fine thanks. Boy child just got a promotion and made a manager. He will be good at it. How are yours?

        As far as the triggers go, in my experience they come in bunches so you are just going through a rough patch, like a cobblestone street. Things will smooth out. I got a fake friend request and a message yesterday but didn’t seem like MRN.


        1. Kim e says:

          I am not going to work because my company has requested we do not for our safety due to the riots. The Chicago office has been open the entire time with the option to go in. I could have gone whenever. But after the looting the first night they raised all the bridges so I could not ahve gotten to my office even if I got down town. It has nothing to do with the government.
          A visit from Doc. HHMMMM interesting.

          I need to get my eyes checked…glasses need an update….but I am not sure if they are opened. I guess I should check.

          Congrats on the boy child promo!!! Mine are fine too. DIL started slowly going back to doing her hair/makeup/tanning stuff.

          I have a chat with HG on Friday. looking foreward to it. (I see you grinning HG)

          Stay on this thread so we can find each other again.


          1. SMH says:

            Kim e, I will stay here! I misunderstood. Here offices are not open yet. There have been lots of protests and some violence but nothing closed down because of it. There were terrible riots and looting here in 2011 when a Black man was shot and killed by the police, so it is not as if Britain has never experienced it before. On Saturday I went to a protest. Later that evening, after I had left mind you, violence broke out and a policewoman was injured after she was thrown from a horse that bolted.

            Glad your kids are okay and things have calmed down enough for you to be able to go to your office. I will go to mine soon too but I have to get special permission.

            I have tried calling the dentist but no one answers. My biggest fear has been a toothache because no dental care here (no PPE).

            Lucky you chatting with HG, though sometimes I forget that he is even here lol.


          2. SMH says:

            Kim e,

            It turns out that doc was the manipulative one, not Odin. Shock! As the time for a visit with him neared, he’d try to make me feel insecure about Odin. He’d then claim to be ‘just teasing.’ This happened once before with someone I befriended when I was on the shelf with MRN. I didn’t meet that guy either but we corresponded for months. Every time he thought MRN and I were over, he’d make some sort of gross comment – like a leering old man. I think I’d better stop befriending people from dating sites without meeting them in person!!


          3. Kim e says:

            Once again HG is proven right. They all present differently. that is why boundries are so important….or the nunery!
            I had hoped doc would end up just being a normal….sorry. At least you knew enough what to watch for. Did you block him?
            Waht is up with you and Odin? Still talking? Any more wierd shit?
            Whatever happend to the plank challenge? I seriously forgot all about it. I stopped even doing the 2 minute planks. I restarted this week which is what made me think about it. Are you still doing them?

          4. SMH says:

            Kim e, I have not been planking, sadly. As soon as the weather improved I started long walks instead. I really wish I could get back to the gym.

            I deleted doc from my phone contacts but we mostly emailed. Odin and I are fine – nothing has changed – though I think once I leave we should minimize contact so neither of us feels obligated. Nothing to worry about now though.

            I hope you are feeling alright today and looking forward to your consult Smooches

          5. Kim e says:

            Happy Monday.
            Weekend was good. Dinner out Friday night. Zoom call with kids Saturday night
            Sunday was a lazy dont do a dang thing kinda day. Felt good to just veg.
            I was palnning on going into my office today but everytime I would think abaout it on Sunday my ET would spike. It was making me sick. So I decided to give myself a break and just work from home until my ET is lower. It was just 3 months since our last contact which I know from past and recent experience is a drop in the bucket.
            This week is work, hair cut and color, and doctor. I am also getting new kitchen appliances as the current ones are going on 19 years. Delivery/set up planned for Friday.
            The excitement is over whelming!!!!
            I see that London is opening up the shops and resturants. I believe that is where you are? Anything different there?

          6. SMH says:

            Happy Monday to you too, Kim e!

            Sounds like you are busy – like regular busy – which is good. It is the right decision not to go to work if it triggers you. Don’t do anything that triggers you. No, three months is not very long. MRN and I once went 8 without seeing each other, though we were in touch most of that time, and that wasn’t long enough to break the ‘spell.’ Exciting about the new appliances! I’m looking forward to having my kitchen back. I also hope to be able to get a haircut in NY. Still cannot get one here. I have a lot of hair and it is requiring a lot of attention!

            Saturday I was out running around but shops didn’t open until today. I saw there were long lines. Yesterday I talked to the kids too, ordered a few things online (good sales because too much stock!), went out to meet a friend in a nearby garden square, where we sat on a bench for an hour. Today was meetings but I wanted to take a nap all day.

            Sat night Odin and I hung out for hours, he watched TV while I took a shower, etc. It felt almost normal! I was considering stopping contact while I’m away (because I don’t want to get into an e-tether situation like I did with MRN) but he wants to stay in touch. I am good with it because he’s not pushy and doesn’t disappear. I think no matter what else happens, we will be friends. Maybe our conflict helped because we faced it instead of running away. One day I will tell him my suspicions and he will either confirm that he is a psychopath or will think it’s funny!!

            I leave in two weeks if all goes according to plan. Kind of torn because I love summers in London, but it is what it is and Odin won’t be here before July. For various reasons, I think it’s better anyway that we not meet again until I return.

            Did you have your consult? How did it go? Smooches!

          7. Kim e says:

            Hello from phase 4!!! My gym is reopening this coming Friday. I can get a facial after 7/4. I am going to my office tomorrow. So many exciting things!!!
            I am going to go to the office but use the train station I hate going to as it is way less of a trigger. If I find the day sucks and I am triggered all day then I wait longer to do it again but I need to get back into the swing of things. My life is at a stand still and I need to get moving to the next chapter.
            Whats news? Where are you? Update on Odin? Update on doc?
            I just made plans to go to Seattle for Thanksgiving. Airfare about 1/4 of what it normally is.
            My boss is out having a baby. He is off today and I have no idea when he will be back. It is nice to know he is there is I need him, but I really don’t for what I use him for. Just nice to have someone to run things past.
            I seriously can not wait to get back in the gym. I am a very lazy person and that is the reason I joined the gym in the first place. Not sure if I will go back to the personal trainer as it is really more than I want to pay.
            I have had numerous consults with HG. One more in July and then it is time for the big girl panties to be pulled up and me to navigate on my own. I know my ET is still ef’ing with me but so far I have logically fixed myself.
            So fill me in……

          8. SMH says:

            Hello Kim e, Been thinking about you. Glad to hear you are handling things well. Taking your alternative route sounds like a good idea to me, and yes you just need to get out there and bit by bit confront the challenges with a back up plan in case you need one. I am glad the consults are helping (I did not doubt that they would).

            Impressed that you have already made plans for Thanksgiving! One of your kids is in Seattle, correct? And the other in CA? I am not even sure what is happening in August, though I think I am going on a boating trip off Rhode Island.

            Lucky you to have the gym. For some reason, they are opening up all leisure stuff here except for gyms! But no matter as I will be leaving (I hope) before it all happens. I don’t know about the situation in NY but I’ll self-isolate for two weeks and work out at home. Then I will get a pedi and a haircut. Then maybe the gym, if it is open. I have definitely gained a few lbs but my clothes all still fit so not too bad. More out of shape than weight gain.

            Everything is good with Odin. We hang out a few nights a week and see how meta jokey we can get. I’m a bit shocked that we’ve been at it for almost four months after meeting once. I guess we actually enjoy each other’s company. They are still insisting that people work from home until August, so I don’t feel so badly about leaving before he returns. Doc and I do not speak but I have not missed him. I never met him in person anyway.

            Otherwise, I am finishing up some work stuff and packing, seeing more friends this weekend since we are now allowed to visit people in their homes. It’s really hot here and no a/c, so not easy to get stuff done. I’d better get on it now before it heats up.

            I am happy that you sound so good. Your logic was always better than mine. Occasionally I think back to when I met MRN and all the red flags that kept coming and coming. I don’t know where my mind was at.


          9. Kim e says:

            It is so strange the way my emotions go from here tot here is a second. One minute I cna be completly at peace and in the blink of an eye a sense of dread and anxiety comes over me. Guess it is part of the withdrawal. I hate it and it just needs to go the hell away.
            I have always been the one planning way ahead. And especially now with the fares so low. I got my hotle room in a 4 start hotel in the middle of downtown Seattle by Pikes Market for 88.00 a night….UNHEARD OF!!!!!!!!! And if covid comes roaring back, I can cancel with no charge and lose nothing.
            This is my oldest I am going to visit. The one that got married in October.
            The other was in CA but went back to Denver in November. I told him about the thanksgiving plans and he can get there roudn trip for 200.00. He read the message but I got no reply. He is 32….I just wish he would reply with Nope…not going. Or F off mom. Or sounds great I will get right on it.
            I am not asking again. Sorry to rant but it pisses me off.
            Boating in Rhode Island. Sounds fun. I think the 4 of us that do a yearly trip are going to do the east coast next year. Martha’s Vineyard maybe. I still want to go to NYC for a long weekend. It is on my bucket list.
            Gym can only allow 25% at the time. But I plan on going after work at 330. Wont be anyone there.
            Four months? really? wow…doesnt seem that long. August isnt that far off if you think about it. It will just about be August by the time you get back and self quarantine for 2 weeks.
            Heating up here too….90’s this weekend.
            My logic has always been great when it comes to others. I just never listened to it myself.
            Have a good weekend. I will check in later.

          10. SMH says:

            Kim e, Hope you are having a good weekend. Maybe son #2 just has not decided yet? Mine might answer a text with a ‘k’ but when we talk he is fine so I think it is the texting. Why don’t you call him?

            Nice deal on Seattle and it is a good time to book holidays. I had to change my return date, however, because it is impossible to get travel/health insurance. I hope you make it to NYC one day- if we actually knew each other we could meet up! lol. I’ve only been to MV once. It’s a pain to get there, as I recall. But very nice once you do. I guess most places that are nice are hard to get to!

            At least your logic is good for others. Mine can be too but I am too conscious of my own fucked up behaviours, so my expectations of others are low. For instance, a friend I was with yesterday has an odd relationship with a man who is not exactly a friend or a partner. He is depressed all the time and threatens suicide, and tries to make her change because he blames her. They rarely see each other yet she cannot walk away even though he has done horrible things to her. Her own shrink tells her that he needs a shrink. I just listen. That’s my job.

            But in my own life I think this blog has helped me to learn how to say no to all kinds of people and walk away/distance myself if they unsettle me. It tends to work out.

            For instance, my landlady here sort of harasses me. She calls and leaves long-winded stream-of-consciousness messages about how she is feeling, what she is doing (we are not friends). I liked her when I first met her, but her calls always end with ‘orders’ and ‘reminders,’ though I have done nothing to suggest that she cannot trust me. So on the pretext of being ‘friends’ she tries to control me, which is passive aggressive, and typical of Brits. My exL was a master at it.

            I was thinking of staying here again when I return but decided that I cannot because of her, and it is too small and hot in the summer. Just as I made that decision, one of my bffs offered me her lovely huge flat because she lives most of the time in another country and needs a tenant. I hadn’t asked because I knew I could not pay what she charges but she will accept what I pay here. That way, she can come and go and at least get some rent, so it works out for both of us. We’ve been friends for 25 years through thick and thin, and she is one of the only people in the world who does not judge me or try to save me. Worth having someone like that in your life, even if the toxic ones are more common.

            Lessons learned: walk away, don’t be afraid to let go or to be alone, you will land on your feet, the people who are there for you will still be there for you. Because of those lessons, I do not try to please Odin the way I did MRN. Whatever comes, comes naturally. He can walk away if he wants to. Ditto for me. Ditto for you. But I don’t tell people to walk away because they usually do not!

            Today I am going to see other friends for a drink and a natter. It is nice to be able to get out more.

            I will probably work out at home with hand weights when I get back because I don’t think my beloved gym is open yet. They are pedestrianizing 10 blocks near me too, so I will have my walking area close by. I will whip myself into shape!

            Hope your ET is not all over the place today and you have a nice relaxing day. Smooches!

          11. Kim e says:

            Howdy! Hotter than blazes here.
            Son #2 beats to his own drummer. I did call him and got no reply. I did not leave a message as you and I both know he knows I called. It is his choice. I am not going to sweat over it.
            I made it to the office on Monday onthe train with no ill side effects. In the morning on the 0557 there are usually 50 people in the car I sit in. I think there might have been 6. Same at night except there might have been 8. I jsut chilled and looked out the window…no ear buds in. Just peacefulness. Chicago was eerie. At 1230 I took a picture from my 23rd floor office and there were 2 people on the sidewalk. You know that is wrong!
            When I got up last Saturday, I felt this calm come over me as I looked in the mirror and said out loud “No more victim. I am done”. My ET has been low. And then this morning at 130 my ET said WAKE UP!! WTF. I was up until 415 and went back to sleep until 545. No idea why that happened. Well yes…I think I know why. Because ET is panicked and fighting for its life. IT was not just remembering things it was full blown “look at his FB” “send him an email at his work” “look at his car”………I literally said out loud to the FB idea……”I am NOT looking at his FB”. But I wanted to. I have had no text contact since 3/9 (?) and have not seen since 8/2019. I have a long way to go…not as long as before but a long way. Cant say at this point in time if he decided to grow a pair and show up, that I could resist. But it isnt going to happen and as HG tells me dont worry about what if……
            Glad things are good with you and Odin. And that is great about your bff and her flat. Things happen when they are meant to.
            Lunch with Denise my old train buddy on Friday. Not sure what the weekend will bring and ahve not decided if I will go in again next week.
            Oh yes…I heard the gyms in NY are still closed. I thought of you.
            Take care and keep in touch.

          12. SMH says:

            Hey Kim e, Hot as blazes here too – in NYC! I made it. I haven’t been out much but today I have to get some food. It’s only 6:30 a.m., however, so it will have to wait.

            Odin was very sweet when I left. Texted at the airport, etc. But I don’t know how things will go now as there might be a psychological shift. We’ll see. I have very little ET, so he is probably not a narc because if he were, he would have manipulated the hell out of me and he has not — yet. As for the flat, I don’t know if I will be able to get back! But it’s there if I do manage it.

            Your ET probably woke you because you went to work, took the train, had all of these reminders. But maybe you are thinking too much about it and that is why it is rearing its ugly head? That is, you are focusing on whether it is present or not but even focusing on its lack of presence is ET in itself, I think. Whenever you find yourself thinking about it, try to shift your mind to something else. For instance, even though it’s for the wrong reasons, I think it would be pretty cool to be in downtown Chicago with no one there. That is quite an experience in itself and something to remember.

            I am self-isolating for two weeks so have no plans with anyone for the foreseeable future! I have a longggg series of meetings next week and am also trying to stay on UK time for those. So it’s bedtime at 8:00 and up at 4:00, just like you!

            The gyms are indeed still closed. Plus there are no hand weights to be had anywhere because everyone is working out at home. Luckily, I have a resistance band and can look up how to do strength training with that.

            Anyway, please keep writing and don’t let those ET nasties get to you, or let your son get to you, for that matter. Yesterday mine found a flood in his apartment because he hooked up the washing machine on his own. Luckily, he is insured because he ruined the wooden floors!


          13. Kim e says:

            Are you going thru withdrawals being back in NYC? What is it like there compared to where you were.
            The train ride ans such didnt bother me. No triggers. But I have not slept since basically Wednesday night. Not sure why my ET is fighting for all its life. I have been doing my get the hell away from me things that I reviewed with HG and it has just been a hell of a week. I am sure that the fact atht this coming Thursday will be 4 months since contact. That sounds great but in my mind Ikeep thinking a blew it at 4 months before. Now telling myself make it untilthe end of Sept and themn take it from there.
            OK…enough of that crap
            I am going to the office every Wednesday this month. I do go to lunch/dinner with friends but then being home alone makes me sad.
            Have not made it to the gym but have been walking in the morning or night.
            I got a reply from my off spring. He said he would get the time off for Thanksgiving. I looked at the fares and times and all ahd changed since the first time I looked, I asked him to call me so we could actually talk….I know that is like asking him to put his balls in vise………..and he was too busy then. I told him whatever and that is that. I am done.
            Massage on Saturday.
            At 300 this morning, it downed on my that Jillian my old PT is a narc. She always complained about her parents and sister and my brain put 2 and 2 together and said…..”you are the victim narc”. Every one picks on her. I have mutual friends with her and she never asks any of us how we are. Just goes on and on about how everyone picks on her and how miserable her life is. She is 28, lives in grammas (who of course is a royal ass) basement. Dad steals her money. I dropped her last month when she was asking me to help her fix a phone problem and she had the nerve to tell me the problem didnt effect her and my phone but I was the only one answering her texts. Not no more I’m not…….
            What is up with Odin? Has he “visited” your NYC abode?

          14. smhsmhsmh says:

            Hi Kim e, Sorry to hear you are struggling. When I read that I remembered there was something about August with N. Doesn’t he usually go on military duty for a month? Could that be why? That and the 4 month NC anniversary? In any case, 4 months is not very long at all. I think when I used to struggle around that time I would read back to when I first came on the blog and see how much progress I had made. Now my past comments don’t interest me much but they did help along the way. Maybe it will help you to read your past comments? Just to remind yourself?

            Otherwise, you just need to keep pushing through and doing what you are doing. See if you can schedule something regular besides work, but not with your old PT!! Ha.

            I have no schedule except for meetings this week that have me up at 4:00 a.m. It doesn’t bother me but I work from home a lot anyway and don’t mind being alone. When I think of living with anyone, exLH comes to mind and puts me off that idea completely.

            I try to make sure to talk to a friend or family member every few days – yesterday to a friend about our boat trip (we are not sure yet because of Covid and the person who owns the boat) and tried to call my cousin. The latter did not answer and probably has not noticed that I called because I used an app, so I’ll try her again in a few days.

            I’ve been seeing work narc every day and that might be why I had a dream about him last night. I looked at him today on the video and I couldn’t imagine what we were doing in the dream. lol. We are just not there in terms of our communication, never mind our proximity! I do not know why I had that dream because it’s been only Odin for months now. Maybe I am drifting.

            Odin and I are not communicating as much but it’s what I expected. I think we are both pretty stable. I’ve sent him pics so he can see my street and neighbourhood. He sends me pics from his garden (backyard), TV room, makeshift office etc (he’s not back to his normal routine yet). Just as I start to miss him, he seems to pop up, so we must be on the same wavelength. Even if we did not speak at all for a few months, I’ll still see him when I go back. I had to reassure him that my son’s father and I once went four years without seeing each other (true story) because first he was travelling for two years and then I was. That was pre-internet – I think for two of those years we did not communicate at all. If it’s love, it will wait. If it’s lust, one or the both of us will find someone else. I can’t worry about it. The world is in too much chaos right now.

            NYC is good if you are lonely because all you have to do is walk out onto the street and something is bound to happen or you’ll see something. Today my big adventure was going to the pharmacy and then to a small market. That was enough exposure, so I came home but everyone is masked and being very polite – giving each other space. It’s very hot and humid so I am impressed with everyone’s patience. The transition is not hard for me because I’ve been doing it for a long time. Keeps me from getting bored in one place or the other!

            Glad your son responded. Don’t be mad at him. My son is the same. I never did find out what happened with the wooden floors he ruined because once his panic passed, he never contacted me about it. Plus my niece said she would call on Sunday but she did not. That’s just the way they are. Don’t take it personally!


          15. Kim e says:

            Great. I have vertigo and you just keep SMHSMHSMHSMH………..:-)
            Not mad at my son. I will enjoy the time with my other son and DIL. Going to go to the rain forest. Been on the to do list since he moved there. And the “fishies home” as he used to call it.
            Work narc. I forgot about him. I have a new work n…head of our marketing department. Total ass…….I type nice emails back as I picture him with a spit up his ass over a burning fire. I laugh as I type……….
            N had nothing in August that I remember and it really doesnt matter if he did/does. What he does where he does it who he does it with why he does it why he said it is not my concern. (he has too much muscle> would not make a good spit option). I dont need to read my old comments. I just read the comments of the newbies and see myself. Plus I am not sure if the stuff in these comments, or the email consults I had with HG, wouldnt trigger me really bad. Staying away from the past until my ET is more under control. Just when I think It is gone…it crops up. Long way to go yes. But even HG commented regarding how far I have come. My last consult with HG is this Friday. I say last because it is the last int he package I bought but I know I will chat with him as time goes on when I hit a brick wall…or one hits me.

            Glad you are in a good place with Odin. Is he coming to NY? I thought you said he works in NY also.

            I ordered grociers and will pick up tonight after work. I did finally sleep pretty good last night. Up at 4 tomorrow as I am going downtown.
            Just waiting for the day that I start to “feel” again.
            Teams call with the boss. TTYL

          16. SMH says:

            Kim e, Apologies for the vertigo. SMHSMHSMH is my stage name :). For some reason, my browser doesn’t save my email and name anymore, so I have to type it in and then delete the website. Big pain.

            Just trying to tie your ET to whatever triggers it. I could swear your suckling pig was away last August at some military thing. Anyway, I always found that when I was triggered it was better to go deeper until it passed (without breaking NC) than to avoid it. I even once read over all of our 3000 emails just to make sure that I wasn’t the crazy one. But HG would probably say that is breaking NC – I never really did go cold turkey – and for me there is physical distance while for you there is not. I know you feel trapped whether you are in your home or going to work, which it is why it is all about mental control. But maybe your trip downtown today and being around other people will take your mind off things? I am sorry it is such a struggle!! You should definitely take your advice from HG! And yes, you have come a long way! Don’t fuck it up!!

            Odin does not work in the US at all. (MRN did.) We don’t know each other well enough for him to stay with me. It would all be awkward unless he had another reason to come. Plus, travelling during a pandemic is not the smartest. Plus I am probably returning sooner than I had planned. We did not really discuss it seriously.

            Sleep, well, I have been getting up at 4 but ‘today’ I woke at 2:30 and couldn’t go back to sleep so I decided to stay up until my meetings are over at around 10:00 a.m. I don’t think I can do this for one more day but I guess I have to. Then I will spend the weekend becoming normal. Maybe your sleep cycle is just screwed up from working at home, which is low level stress and triggering your ET?

            Good luck today since it seems you will have an N to deal with! Smooches!

          17. Kim e says:

            Last August was the “last supper” for us. Last time I saw him.
            And from now on, he is off limits in our chats. Breaks my NC and HG grounds me to the dungeon with no wine!!!!! HG tells me not to talk to anyone about N except him because he uses logic that others, trying to help, do not. So say good bye and fuck off to N!!!!
            Gotta run BBL

          18. SMH says:

            Kim e, I need to vent. Remember that I have mentioned neighborhood guy? Well, it seems his wife doesn’t want me around as she kind of pushed me out of a leadership role within the nabe group. It feels to me like she does not like me and does not want to be friends but when I think about it logically, I think it’s that she does not want me to be friends with NG. So, for instance, NG and I had a task that we were supposed to do virtually and somehow that got lost and they bypassed me altogether.

            They are away right now and when they spoke of coming back in a week or so, she mentioned getting together with someone else in our group but did not invite me. In the meanwhile, next weekend I am getting together with a few people in our group and when I said I was looking forward to seeing them in person, NG said that he was envious. It is like wife keeps him on a leash and he and I are not allowed to have a friendship, even though we have a lot in common (friends, same profession, background, etc).

            Why does this matter? Well, I thought we were all friends but the dynamic has gotten really weird and I feel that I cannot participate in the group the way I want or have any kind of friendship with NG, alone or as part of a couple, because wife will not tolerate it.

            I remember ages ago writing that she was very controlling in this ‘nice’ way and that continues. She never raises her voice or gets upset about anything, and speaks very indirectly when she is correcting someone. But I also think she is in some sort of denial as NG has a lawsuit hanging over his head. He used to write to me about it a lot. Their disabled daughter adores me. I even brought her some gifts! Wife and I did a few things alone last fall too. Should I just forget about it? Or try to circumvent the wife? I was thinking of just writing to him to say that I had these gifts and why don’t I meet him or both of them with the kids in the park or something, to give them to her.

            Sorry to go on about it but these people were a big part of my life last year and now it feels as if she has pulled the rug out and I don’t know why…


            P.S. K, if you see this (I know you will), how do I find my comments that mention something in particular? I have tried the search bar and different combinations, but only posts come up, not comments. I have also tried Googling.

          19. Kim e says:

            So strange that after you have been gone and completely for all intense purpose been ut of the loop that now you are being black balled? Could it be that he was triangulating the 2 of you to her while you were gone and she has had enough? She sounds like a Passive/Agressive type…narc or not.
            What is the lawsuit about? IF it is sexual harassemtn I can see her issue with him talkikng to you. IF it is not I dont get it. (I am sure you told me and I just forgot).
            And then we could go to the total other end of the spectrum and and reevaluate that she is a N also. Sounds like MRN with the nice nice, jealousy and such.
            Feel out the others when you meet them and hubby/wife are not there. SHould be interesting aslo to see if there is a LT in the group and what is discussed gets back to one of them.

            Mean while, I just sit here in my boring life……LOL
            I am sorry this is making you feel aleinated from the group. Dont wste too much of your energy on it. I know it is something you are vested in. See hows the meeting goes.
            Either way, I am still here and that is the main thing………..LOL
            Smooches and a much needed hug

          20. Kim e says:

            SMH. Not sure where to put this so here it is
            I was standing at the sink doing dishes to night burst into tears and said something out loud I thought I would never say. I said “ I hate you Will” Guess I had been holding it in because I had myself convinced he could not / can not help what he does. But fuck. Guess I was finally done. I feel drained. I would think I would feel relieved but completely spent.
            Guess the healing is under way

          21. SMH says:

            Kim e,

            I hate MRN too. I don’t hate many of my exes and it’s hard for empaths to hate anyone, but I sure do him, and I think for the right reasons. I also hate my exLH and one other ex. I don’t think it has anything to do with the relationship dynamic either. For instance, I am FB friends with two exes I was madly in love with at one time or another, and both dumped me (well, one ended up in jail and I dumped him). In both cases I realized that I was not in a good place, it wasn’t all their fault, and they aren’t bad people, so I don’t hate them.

            I think it means you are getting some distance on it and can see W for what he is: an awful person, not nice, manipulative, immature, stunted, etc. Piece of trash! Rubbish person! HG would be the first to tell you that such people exist. It is not us, it is them.

            Hope today is better!


          22. SMH says:

            Kim e, Thanks for the hug! I needed it! Yes it is a sexual assault case but it is so crazy that I do not believe most of it (I read the lawsuit). Last he told me, they also accused him of murdering someone. He never tried anything with me. We were just friends. It could be that wife discovered that he was emailing me, though I do not know how she would find out and it was all above board anyway – I mean he wasn’t coming onto me or anything. Wife is not American so there is some cultural stuff going on too. Everyone else loves her but no one else has a relationship with the husband or sees the passive aggression. Anyway, nothing I can do about it. I will see the others on Saturday but won’t say anything because I don’t know any of this group well enough.

            Our boat trip is on for mid August – piece of good news! Plus, I am almost done with all these big projects I have to finish up. I am getting carpal tunnel in my hand, though that might be more phone than computer. I am having a hard time getting back on a normal sleep schedule. This morning I woke up at 5 and thought it was 6, so I got up. Ugh. Not a good start to the day…

            Smooches and a hug back!

          23. Kim e says:

            Guess you are just a trouble malker being freindly with married guys.
            Have you emailed him since?
            My sleep has improved for the most part.
            Vegas trip was originally 9 of us and 4 have dropped out as of 2 days ago. The rest of us are going. We rented a house and that is where we will hang. Get food and drinks (lots of the later) and swim and eat and drink and sleep and repeat. Maybe drive to a haunted town. I gotta get the hell out of my life for a while and this is it.
            With this time I am taking in August and November I will ahve 7 1/2 days PTO I need ti sue by 12/31/20. Not sure about October as we are switching to a completely different software in October and we have been warned it will involve some nights.
            I thought I had carpet tunnel but it was gout….LOL. Meds to the rescue. I did find out that it is truly carpal tunnel it is in the middle of your wrist….not the sides.


          24. SMH says:

            Kim e,

            I did not see your last message on this thread but I was thinking of you and scrolled back through, and there it was. (the one where you mention gout) How have you been? Sorry some of your Vegas party dropped out but I am not surprised. A niece had to move this year’s wedding to spring next year and I think that’s too soon. She should move it to September. Anyway, sounds pretty blissful to rent a house with a pool. It is so hot in NYC that I am not even going out today or tomorrow. I did go out Friday and yesterday to meet up with friends and members of my neighbourhood group at some nice outdoor spots, so I have been active. I just know what it’s like when it gets hot and humid, which it is.

            Odin goes back to his office in September. Good to know that he will be in London when I get back, or should be, anyway. I was also given a huge task for the fall by my employer, without being asked. That somewhat pissed me off but I guess we all have to pitch in due to the pandemic. Schedules had to be reshuffled, etc. It will be better for me to be in the UK time zone, so I am aiming to return in late October.

            I have not emailed neighbourhood guy. I’ll give it some time. They are out of town anyway. Besides, what would I say? Your wife feels threatened by me? He must know that.

            The carpal tunnel is actually in my fingers. Too much typing and scrolling.

            Today I’m going to have a good workout indoors. No sign of gyms opening here anytime soon.

            Let me know how you are – I think you had your last consult with HG on Friday if I am remembering correctly?


          25. Kim e says:

            Last week was 4 months NC. YEA FOR ME!!!!! Still a day to day as my ET tries very hard to get me to break it. And an anniversay for us is coming up also but he will not remember it I am sure and I will just let it slide on by.
            I am still going to Vegas. I will self quarantine for 2 weeks when I get back…making my freedom date around Labor Day. Heard from oldest yesterday that he is coming into town dorun my self quarantine. I might meet him somewhere with a mask on to bump elbows.

            I have been going to Friday lunches with 2 friends. But other than Kathi and my massage lady, I see no one in person. Thought about going to Galena with my lunch friends and after thinking abour for 2 days said….NOPE!!! Too many peoples.

            Still going tot he office this month on Wednesday. My friend Denise from the train, retired Friday. I will miss her but it is one trigger gone. We did lunch 3 weeks ago and my ET wanted me to ask her questions that she of course would not know anything about because she has not been on any train since March BUT my ET remembers her and tried to get in that way.

            I am surprised (and not) that the gyms in NY arent open. I have not been to mine yet. Not a matter of the P…it is a matter of pure laziness.

            HG and I had our last chat. He will miss me but I am sure I have already been shelved and repainted 25 times. HELLO HG!!!!!!

            Work is a day to day. the Work narc actually had me alphabetize reports the other day as everything else he has asked for is done. Such an ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Gotta run. I am worried about CIF. I think it is going to get a whole lot worse. Hope her ET is really down. The fact atht she had to think about shredding the card gives me pause.

            Did you have your neighborhood meeting? How did it go?



          26. SMH says:

            Kim e, Yay indeed for you all shellacked and shelved. I hope you don’t need to be taken out for awhile – or maybe never! Don’t get stale though.

            I know it is hard but you sound good, upbeat, and the rest of us are also seeing very few people, at least I am. Remember pandemic. Don’t get it confused with self-isolation due to ET. Glad your Denise trigger is gone, even if you will miss her. Someone else will come along in your new ET free environment and not trigger you.

            I did work out at home yesterday – planked for the first time in ages. Not terrible but not great either. I have figured out how to use a resistance band for just about everything else, so I’m good gym or no gym. I also weighed myself for the first time in 7 months and haven’t gained at all. Out of shape rather than overweight. I am taking all of this time to perfect myself for Odin (just kidding – really for me since I have no idea what the fall will bring).

            I too am worried about CIF – that mask sure fell off. I know her ET is low and she will do her best to stay safe. Like you, I just hope it is enough…as for the card, I think anyone would be curious about a card received from an ex so that part seems normal to me. I never read the last email MRN sent to me either. Over and out. I have 14 friend requests at the moment, all from creepy guys/bots. Easy to ignore once ‘creep’ sets in.

            Neighbourhood group was just fine, thanks – it was fun to get out and interact with people. We will do it again in two weeks but I don’t know that I’ll be here as I am heading out of the city for awhile at the end of the week. Might be back in time but maybe not.

            HOT here today. I do have to go out briefly, but will brave it late in the afternoon so I can take a shower as soon as I get home.

            Glad one of your sons has made an appearance. Mine does not bother, though he always answers when I call and is chatty. They have holes where their brains are meant to be.


    2. SMH says:

      Kim e, I get it. Talking to me about N is like talking to your friends. One reason I don’t think Odin is an N is because I don’t feel the need to talk about him. If someone knows and asks (few people do because it is admittedly a bit weird to meet someone once and then have a virtual relationship for the following however many months – we’re in our 5th), I will say, but he does not dominate my conversations the way MRN did.

      I did dream about him in the middle of the day today after we were texting and I had to take a nap because I’d been up since 2:30 a.m. It was a calm dream, unlike the one with work narc, which was somewhat fraught. Maybe that’s another clue. Fuck all Ns!

      One more brutal day of meetings this week and then I do not know. Well, more work but on my own time – no meetings! It is brutally hot and I’d like to go to the beach but I’d have to take the subway to get there and am trying to avoid that for the moment.


      1. Kim e says:

        I typed a great response to this a couple days ago and hit delete instead of backspace and lost it…literally. OH well lets try again.
        My last chat with HG was Friday. If all goes well, I will never have to contact him again. He will of course miss me but such is life…….hahaha. I feel ok but still kinda shaky. Still in day at a time mode.
        Lunch on Friday lasted 4.5 hours. Who says I cant talk…..and no alcohol involved!!!!!!!
        I got a massage yesterday and then too a 2.5 hour nap. Went to K’s for dinner and movie.
        Watched a Netfilix movie the Old Guard. It was good. There will be sequeals I am sure. I loved it because I love Marvel movies and since Marvel sold out to Disney I do not see many GOOD marvel movies in the future.
        Still no word from the youngest regarding T day.
        Getting into Vegas mode It is coming up and I cant wait. What is the news on your boat adventure?
        How is it with Odin? Has it changed at all?
        Off to do something exciting like luandry.

        1. SMH says:

          Hi again Kim e – lol. Third one of the morning. Yes, you can talk! Sounds like you had a busy weekend – me just working and locked up at home. One more day. I have plans now for Friday (seeing a friend) and Saturday (nabe group and seeing another friend). Feels weird to have “so many” plans! I thought of getting a pedi but will do it myself, since I can. Need to get some nail polish remover though. Maybe that will be my big outing today.

          Glad you are nearing the end with HG because it means that you are closer to being free of N. I am sure you will make it but if you wobble, you know what to do! It is one day at a time for now but one of those days, it won’t be!

          I have not been able to find anything good on Netflix. I’ll give the Old Guard a try even though I am not one for superheroes.

          When is your Vegas trip again? Keep an eye on things – don’t fly into a hot spot! Don’t worry about your son either. Thanksgiving is a long way away! I haven’t heard from mine either. He didn’t even check to make sure I got home okay!

          The boat trip is on for late August. I have three trips planned (really four but the fourth is far so I will have to see). Trying to figure out if I can organize them to avoid weeks of driving. Going to a cousin’s lake house in a week or so, boat trip, and to see my niece, who does not seem to be coping very well. She had to go to work yesterday and had a complete meltdown on Sunday. Today and tomorrow she can work from home. Might go to her before the boat trip – not sure yet how it will all work out.

          Things with Odin are the same. We don’t talk as much but when we do it is pretty seamless and I don’t think anything has changed. But you know with both of us locked down we could be fairly sure that the other was not seeing anyone else. With both of us free (I think he can go back to his office soon), we’ll have to see what happens. Last thing he wrote was that he wished we had seen each other again before I left. I do too but I am also glad we had the time to get to know each other.

          Once I know when I am returning, we’ll have a better idea of where we stand. For now, light touch. I think my attitude is healthy – sometimes I get a bit anxious but I wait for him to contact me, mostly because I talk too much too and know that if I start to contact him, I might go overboard. Sometimes I think he thinks that I am distant, but I try to reassure him.


    3. Caroline-is-fine says:

      Sorry for replying on the wrong post…I can’t reply again on your last one. I agree, “hoovering” sounds more benign than stalking, even if it’s the same thing. “Stalking” sounds intense – like you’re being hunted and they hold all the power. “Hoovering” sounds like they’re floating around trying to entice you in, which doesn’t feel like a threat to me because I’m not going anywhere near that maniac, so I feel like I hold the power. But I get what HG is saying. In actuality, stalking is a hoover.
      I’ll let you know if this heightens…if you get worried, just ping me – but no news means no major calamity. All’s calm so far…hooray? Ha.
      Ever since my nex parked on my street the first time, I’ve realized he’s worse than I thought. It shocks me, in a way I can’t find the words to explain. Well, he’s either worse than I thought, or he’s always been this bad — and I had no idea. Either way, it’s pretty unsettling. I definitely have a hard time being outside now. I’m being careful. Sorry to even worry you (which is why I often have a hard time with giving bad news like this – I HATE worrying people). I’ll take it as it comes…and adjust, as necessary. XO.💙

      1. SMH says:

        CIF, Worse than you thought: I think we all come to the realization at some point that we don’t know these guys at all and that they are capable of doing things that we could never even have imagined. I remember the first time MRN stalked me (I did not know about hoovering yet) and how creeped out I was. Then I thought it was a one off and he must ‘want’ me for some reason, so a few months later, there I was, back with him. I know you are much ahead of where I was at that point, so that won’t happen with you. But gosh it sure makes us wish we had known all this before we got involved, right?

        As for hoovering and stalking – yeah, it might be good for HG to address this more fully so the warning bells go off more quickly for his readers. Had I understood stalking better, how to identify it, why people do it and what it meant or portended, I might have been able to break away at that point. Of course, I had not found KTN yet but just on principle, stalking should be more prominent.

        I will assume you are okay, then, if you are not here. But do check in occasionally please! xo 💙

  3. I’m going to put money on the number 55. My No Contact regime had better be water tight, all I’m going to say lol

  4. Empath007 says:

    I got 70. I am curious about the one where you are at the same event and they just look at you and nothing more.. I answered “not a hoover”, because although my presence is a hoover trigger, I did not think the act of simply looking would count as a hoover… especially if they did not show up to the event solely for the purposes of seeing us. Correct or incorrect ?

      1. Empath007 says:


  5. SMH says:

    Kim e, Where are you? I am posting here because I assume you will see it whereas I am not sure you will see comments on more recent posts, where I have not seen your name. All is well with me and I am hoping it is with you too but please check in! Smooches!

    1. Kim e says:

      SMH I sent you a message on the Provocation thread last week. Not sure how and where we lost each other. Lets keep it here on the Hoover thread as you hoovered me back in…LOL

      Still working from home. Had plans to go in to Chicago 1 day a week int he month of June but the protest and the bridges up have stopped that. The next week is out also. Hope for the next. I need to get back into a routine.I am not the work form home type of person. I need to be around people. Meeting up with freinds tonight and see Kathi tomorrow..

      Just got my nails done. Hair schedule for the 16th. Massages and Reiki have been on going.

      Have been talking to HG.It will be 3 months next week since any contact with n. Good days. Bad days. Had a bad morning today. I was leaving the neighborhood to get my nails done and passed him coming into the complex on the road into the houses. We were the only 2 cars on the street moving or standing still. I did not see his face as I must have been looking towards his SUV like you do when you go to pass someone. I saw the license plate. I was passed him then and was so stunned I did not even look in the rear mirror. But of course my ET had a field day with it. I have come to learn that ET will take any way in that it can. After seeing the car, I had to let my logic do a lot of talking to my ET. It has effected me. I am depressed now and weepy. BUT I did not do anything. I held fast. I thought about emailing HG but let my logic talk me down as HG will not always be able to be there when this happens.
      Over the last week I have gotten numerous calls from numbers that do not leave messages. And when I look them up on google, they are not a company. I ignore them. I have gotten no unknown or blocked number calls. Not sure if the others are just a coincidence but I have not gotten any spoofed calls in a long time.
      So that is my world right now.
      Tell me about yours.

      1. SMH says:

        Hey Kim e, I guess I did hoover you! Ha. WordPress will not allow me to reply directly to comments and I don’t have the patience to figure out how to fix it so as always, I hope you see this. I didn’t see the Provocation comment because I guess I didn’t look specifically at that post and only get notified of posts that I subscribe to.

        I am very sorry the car thing happened. No surprise that you are weepy. ET is a bitch. I was just watching trash TV and started to get flashbacks – not to MRN but to LesserExH – and had to turn it off. Triggered, as they say. Wish you could turn off the fact that exN lives so close to you by changing the channel or hitting a button on the remote. Maybe stop Googling the numbers? It means you spend more time thinking about him. Besides, it’s a sick/immature thing to do – like when MRN visits my Linkedin (hasn’t happened again).

        I thought it was too dramatic to cut Odin off so I didn’t do anything, though I came close. Since then, our conversations are more relaxed and nothing else weird has happened, but I don’t think we’ll see each other before I go so it doesn’t really matter. We both have a bit of a fascination with psychopaths. I told doc that one day I will tell Odin my suspicions and he will either think it’s funny or tell me that I was right…

        I’ve been going to protests (they are happening here too), but wish I was there. I’d be right in the thick of it.

        Also seeing more friends, but things are not quite back to normal yet – for instance, I cannot go shoe shopping!

        Hope you have a good time tonight and tomorrow. I’m also meeting up with a friend tomorrow but one that I have a really hard time with because she is jealous and it comes out as criticism. I haven’t seen her since early April, when she ruined a weekend for me. I know she was worried when I went silent for weeks and is relieved that we are talking, but I might have to say something tomorrow. Or maybe she will cancel!

        That’s a pretty trippy avatar you have going on there. Hard for me to write to it 🙂


        1. Kim e says:

          One thing the truck incident taught me is I am not as far along in my healing as I thought. Further than I was but I cant get cocky about it. It did not trigger me enough to start scoping out his FB and such but the feeling sucks. The panic comes back. Seriously after I saw the truck….I did not even see his face…….I wanted to go home to my safe haven. Oh well, set backs will happen. I guess my progress is measured by my reaction and I have to give myself an A for this one. Made me realize this will take longer than I thought. I am just hitting the 3 month marker and I have gone longer before.Logic is slowly winning.

          Odin? Talking? WOW…that one threw me. So you have decided he is not a N? You have decided he is a N and since you will chances are never see each other again, it is ok? I find it very interesting that you are attracted to Odin even after what happened but you just kinda talk to the doctor like there is nothing there. The bad boy thing going on. Does the doctor have feelings for you? Do you have feelings for him? I think you met him on line? Dating site? IF that is true then he obviously wasn’t there looking for someone to chat with. And he emails you 2 times a day….HHHHHMMMMMM. Is this a case of the forest for the trees?

          Not googling numbers….yep. Good idea. Doesn’t matter who it was. If important, they will leave a message. Thanks for that one.

          Dinner was wonderful last night. Nothing special about the food….I had a Gyro and Godiva Cheesecake (heaven) but it was great to get out. Made plans to do it again next weekend.
          Kathi’s today….massage Wednesday….HG Friday. What more could a girl ask for!!!!!!

          Any word on your return date to the US?


  6. SMH says:

    Hello Kim e – Hope you see this one too. Something wrong with this thread for me.

    Happy you are able to see more friends and have more social occasions. I’ve seen that Wisconsin is a nightmare. Sorry you are neighbours!

    I don’t have any plans for the weekend – it’s not a holiday weekend here. But I will scare up something, you can be sure.

    I posted on the devaluation thread regarding Odin. I was inadvertently disobedient and he devalued me as far as I can tell. Read it on there! We are still in touch as far as I know but I don’t think he will be coming because there is no talk of offices opening. We’ll see if he does a bit push if it does turn out he is coming but none of it matters to me at this point. What he did kind of devalued him in MY eyes. It all makes me laugh and I still have the doc in my corner (and you and HG and everyone here).

    London is starting to open up too. No new cases today – finally! Shops will open (thankfully) in 10 days. I had to buy flip flops online because I don’t have any summer clothes with me and it is hot out! The weather has been beautiful and I have been meeting up with a wider circle of friends too – but all outdoors. Work is also easing up a bit – a few big projects but not so much of the day-to-day stuff. It will all have to be done before I leave so I have my work cut out for me for the next month.

    Are you happy about your summer hours? I hope it doesn’t mean a cut in pay!

    I hope when a hoover does come your ET is enough under control that you can resist it. I think it will because hoovers are so predictable (right? though I did not believe it myself.) I haven’t thought about MRN since that day in the park, which seems a long time ago now, even though I think it was less than two weeks ago. So even if your ET does spike, you will get it under control.

    I am here if you want to talk – just the blog hasn’t been very active so I have not been here (or maybe I did not look at new posts?)


    1. Kim e says:

      I replied to the other thread about Odin. You were likely given a corrective devaluation as you were int he golden period. The fact that you gave him shit, caused your demise. I hope you blocked him. I will say nothing else about it unless you bring it up. Your life….your decision. I will be here if needed forever…(well hopefully not forever….LOL)

      Summer hours is a normal benefit of the company. We get paid regular and do not have to work 4 hours extra to get the 4 hours off. If going to the office in downtown, jeans are allowed Fridays also in the summer. It really is a great company. We have 64 properties around the country with between 4 and 8 employees each. Last week the announced that they are giving each of these people 1000.00 bonus becuse they really are on the front line.

      Flip flops…you rebel!!!!!!!!! I cant wait. Except after 10 weeks of no pedicures I am not sure people want to see my toes. I have an appointment beginning of June for a mani/pedi. It will be heaven.

      Yea….I am not sure why this thread does not show up on wordpress where I used to go and look for you. When you see this, even if there is a reply button, go to the top of email where it says kime commented and click on commented. It will take you to my comment and there will be a reply button there.

      Check in when you can. I will check over the weekend as I am not doing anything Sunday or Monday.


      1. smhsmhsmh says:

        Kim e, I’ve written a response to you, CIF and Violetta on the Devaluation post. Since it’s three against one (and I’m sure HG would tell me the same), I’ll listen! Just not sure how to extricate myself because I have that empath guilt/what if I am wrong/don’t want to hurt him thing going on.

        I hope not to be here forever either but I still clearly need to be! Funny how the devaluation thread came up just as I was trying to figure out where to post the story of what happened (you were not around).

        Does sound like a nice company – I am glad you are happy in your work and can look forward to long summer weekends. I fear I will just be on lockdown wherever I go!

        You know I spent a whole day about two weeks ago giving myself a pedicure. It literally took me ALL day! Only one nail has chipped. My flip flops are platform ones so I can wear them around the city. Hope they arrive tomorrow because it was too hot today to be walking around in closed shoes, though I did it anyway. I’d be barefoot all the time if I could be.

        I did click on the reply button via ‘commented’ but it still took me to the blank reply. I have faith that you will find this, however.


        1. Kim e says:

          Doesnt that give you a headache to smh 3 times?

          Ah yes…the guilt. If youa re feeling guilt about Odin in the short time you were with him, you were in deep. And dare I say you never really got over MRN. Oh sure. You were not communicating but the addiction was still there just laying in wait. Odin was a hit of N heroin after a long dry spell and your ET was in heaven. Youwere able to cut it off with MRN because you had reached your ropes end. You are not ready to let go of Odin as you were still in the GP. You knew something wasnt right but were caught up in the whirlwind of it all.
          I feel like you and I have now reversed roles…LOL
          As I said before, I will not harp on this. You know what you have to do. I also understand that having to, wanting to and actually doing it are all very different. Just know I am here for virtual hugs, to listen, to slap you around….what ever you need.

          I am always around. Be sure to always start you reply to me with kime and I will find you. A lot of times I dont read all the stuff but I do look for kime in a reply. This thread here “the hoover” is now showing up on my wordpress with your replies so it can be our new thread.
          Devaluation thread to hoover thread….a coincident????

          Kinda a dreary day here. Time to go find food. Making Navy Bean soup Saturday.

          Smooches and big hugs.

    2. Caroline-is-fine says:

      Hi, SMH💙,
      I just read this post of yours & also saw I missed your last message to me, at the same time (my notifications are a bit screwy again)…I can’t reply to that one (no button) – anyway, more pressing matters – Odin.

      I located the devaluation thread & read there…I agree with Violetta, hon. Step away from the narc – you really can’t “play” with them, without it somehow seeping into your own emotional health (in some way) and/or just wasting your time/energy – even when you’re not currently invested. It’ll still be negative, one way or another. You just don’t need it. I tried to make someone “good” out of my knowledge of narcissism (help UMR’s family), and now I’ve got an obsessed UMR. Our ET tricks us, in this regard. We can’t manage/handle/help them, and we can’t control WHAT they will do. Even just “observing” him is getting involved. Again, case in point: me. I’ve got a boatload coming my way that I didn’t bargain for (yes, I’ll be fine, but who needs it?). Learn my lesson, hon – but quicker❣

      Trust your gut. You’ve noticed enough red flags. If he’s not a narc, he’s immature/a gameplayer of some sort.

      As the “new normal” resumes more and more, you can look to real opportunities/new people & more fun times. Until then, try to think up some stuff that will distract you/entertain yourself…reading/movies/projects. I know, it’s tempting to look at it as a “narc experiment,” but it’s not worth it…because in some way, you’re still giving him some of your power — just by paying him attention.

      Love ya,
      Caroline🤸‍♀️<look, still joyful, even with the narc relocation in the works…goofy girl.🤭
      I'll try to post this on the other thread too.

  7. SMH says:

    Kim e, For some reason I am not able to reply on this thread anymore. Same thing happened with CIF. Just wanted to tell you that I read what you wrote and I agree with HG, so you have both of our approval! Hope you are feeling better tomorrow. I just watched Contagion – don’t know how I missed it. Glad we are not going down that road…yet. Smooches!

    1. Kim e says:

      I am listening to Cross Pollution by H G Tudor. I believe I am just never going leave my house or talk to anyone that I dont already know. This is scarey shit. In my next life I am going to come back as a dog!!!!!

      Feeling better today. Not 100% but better.

      I have not watched Contagion. Maybe that will be my Saturday night movie. This lock down is a double edged sword. Hate the thought of getting the virus so SIP is ok. Hate SIP because bored.

      No other plans for the weekend. How about you?

      1. SMH says:

        Kim e,

        Glad you are feeling better. I still cannot reply directly. I have plans with two friends this weekend now that we are allowed out. Nothing wild! We are still mostly expected to SIP and not much is open so there is not much to do other than the great outdoors. I did see shops preparing to open yesterday for June 1, when more things will open.

        Boris Johnson beats Trump for LEAST trusted world leader. Not hard to believe from my perspective.

        Odin and I had a little tiff over misunderstandings, but we made up and I am hopeful we have found a balance for the moment. It is super hard to get to know other people, I must say. Also, dogs get better treatment than women, so good choice.

        I worked today and then took a nap. It is evening here already and I have not been anywhere. Just managed to do the dishes.

        Hope you like Contagion – cute little story about Matt Damon SIP in Ireland.


        1. Kim e says:

          Hello! Well life is proceeding as unexpected but it is proceeding. Found out yesterday that starting this Friday my company is still going to be doing summer hours from memorila Day thru labor Day. For me that means I work 4 hours on Fridays!!!! Also found out that I will be working remotely thru September no matter what the rest of the world is doing. Things will be less tight around here as of 6/1/20 with hair places opening, gyms open to personal trainer sessions, small gatherings of 10 or less……all with masks and as much social distnacing as possible. Good and bad with this. Good is we can all air out our brains…bad is just a matter of time before the rules are dropped and the circle starts all over. Hope you are back in NY by then??

          Contagion was spooky because it was made like 2 years ago and was right on target. If I had known Gwenyth was in it I would not have watched it. Cant stand her wretched ass.

          Nothing new on the NC front. I am thinking that is a good thing. Not neive enough thnk that a hoover will never come. But need to be strong enough to completely ignore it. I have good and really bad days…..when they are bad the ET really attacks. But so far I have held strong.

          Friday I am meeting up with some friends at a forest preserve for some live chatting instead of facetime.
          Saturday going to Kathi’s for a walk, dinner and a movie.
          Sunday and Monday up for grabs.
          Illinois will be empty for the holiday weekend as Wisconsin is reopened totally. They can go but then they should not be allowed back for 30 days till they can prove they are negative.
          You have plans for this exciting Memorial Day holiday?

          Stay safe and have fun.


  8. SMH says:

    Did it again and got a 75 this time. Something finally clicked. Not ready to tackle the empath one again, however.

  9. SMH says:

    CIF, I am unable to respond directly to your last message, so I hope you see this. Obsessed? That was an answer I did NOT pick because I thought it was all about the fuel. Don’t know what that means for MRN’s occasional hoovers, but I am glad the virus is slowing down the UMR. That does give you time to breathe and ground yourself, though it sounds like you are doing that just fine.

    Slow is indeed good – very evocative description of children playing. I rarely see any children these days! The ones I hear about are the ones whose parents are tearing their hair out having to homeschool them 🙂

    I’ve really have not minded the lockdown but I am kind of done with it/over it now, though our instructions are very muddled (you can take a crowded tube train without a mask but you cannot meet your parent in your front garden). One or two events a week are still enough for me. Plus work is oppressive. I just came off a 3 hour meeting.

    I have pulled back from one or two friends lately, but Odin hasn’t done anything to make me do that and I don’t feel that I can know if it is overall healthy or icky in this situation, so feeling kind of stuck I guess. I probably am indeed overanalyzing because nothing has changed from last week to this except that lockdown is lifting, so that’s what I attribute it to.

    People are still meant to work from home if they can. My office is therefore not open and neither is his. The environment has changed but our situation has not. I guess it’s more a readjustment – things changed but they did not change. Or something like that! Maybe I had it in my head that suddenly we would all be free and life would go back to the way it was! In other words, it likely has nothing to do with Odin at all.

    It has helped to talk through this and get your input. I feel like I have my own private shrinks here in this forum. Funny how messed up we all are! (Well, a lot of us, anyway.)

    I might try the quiz again now that I know that the answers I am looking for might be more obvious than I first thought.

    Hugs to you!

  10. SMH says:

    Well, I finally took this quiz. I guess I skipped right over it because I was so sure he would never hoover me again. Score: 60. No wonder I wasn’t prepared.

    1. Kim e says:

      Not a bad score. I believe I got a 70. Back to the drawing board

      1. SMH says:

        Kim e, I just did it again and got an even worse score. I need the answers!

        1. Kim e says:

          LOL. You need a vacation…………

          1. SMH says:

            Kim e, I bombed the empath quiz even worse. And then I did it again and it was worse than the first time. lol. After all this time here, I don’t know a thing!

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Yes you do.

          3. SMH says:

            HG, It seems that I do know out there in the world – that my radar is pretty good now. Not perfect but better. But I don’t know a lot of the details, which order, what a remembrancer is, etc, so lots of guesswork. I feel like I failed you. Sorry. Norty corner for me.

          4. Kim e says:

            You were more focused on learning about MRN than you were about yourself. And then you feel into the “oh he isnt gonna hoover” trap so you even fell away from reading about him.
            Life goes on. Really knowing about the Nis more important to me right now so I know what to avoid.
            I have been practicing closing my blinds without really looking out the window in case some one shows up walking a dog….LOL
            The ET spike has you freaked out on all aspects. You think it spiked because you dont know anything about empaths. You do hon as you are one.

            How that your ET has simmered down, did this experience change the way you view/feel about Odin? Odin alone? Odon as a companion?


          5. SMH says:

            Kim e, I know what you mean. I also had to practice opening my front door without having apparitions. You are correct that I always said I didn’t really care what kind of empath I was so did not really study it. And yes, when I became convinced N was gone I stopped learning unless something specific came up. You are very perceptive. The ET spike taught me a lesson. Ugh I have to say that in retrospect, the feeling was awful. Maybe I don’t need that drug anymore.

            Odin and I are fine, thanks. Yesterday I was feeling alienated and stalled but all turned out well. I joked that I was going to call or text him when we were finally standing next to each other because I don’t know any other way to talk to him. In a few weeks I guess we will see whether it is weird or relaxed!!

            I also noted just to myself that I still have a touch of the old abandonment/disappearance complex the N instilled in me. I do not fully trust that Odin won’t disappear and I am a bit too attuned to his moods. He’s not moody but if I notice something different about his pattern, I get anxious. That’s the N experience. Hard to get beyond it.

          6. Kim e says:

            Yep. Narcs…the gift that just keeps giving. BUT there is a good thing that came out of it. You realized, as I have done inthe past, that the N herion hit doesn’t feel good after you ahve been away from it for some time. The anxiuos feeling, brain fog…why, who, how, what….and this would be after just not seeing his car in his drive way. NOPE…not a good place for us.
            Thanks for noting my perseption is good. It always was when it came to giving others advise.. I was completely blinded to my own situation and would completely ignore my own advise. Even as it was rolling off my tongue, to someone I knew I would not be following it for myself.
            Take time with Odin. As you can see your wounds are not quite healed.
            Weekend plans? I have a zoom thing tonight but nothing else. Maybe a Mother’s Day toast with you on Sunday….same time…same place?????
            It is May…correct? The Chitown weather thinks it is March. Freeze warning and highs 25 degrees below where they should be. Might be a nap weekend…eat….nap….read….nap….tv….nap.
            Take Care and dont be too hard on yourself.

          7. SMH says:

            Kim e, Take time with Odin? Lol. We’ve had only time. I am secretly glad. And yes to the narc heroin. It is like getting a hit after you’ve been clean for awhile. What happens? You throw up or die or both. Nothing good, at any rate.

            I think most of us can see others’ situations more clearly than our own. Perhaps that is part of being an empath – reading people well but blinded to ourselves and our relationships (because they involve us) by our own ET. Still, the quality of your advice is very good, except for the part where you made me all nervous about Odin. So not perfect, but close 🙂

            Weekend plans – I am expecting a friend today or tomorrow. My kids will forget or not want to deal with MD because one is in Germany so it is not on his radar (though maybe it is MD there too? here it is in March) and I am not the other’s mother. She will be thinking of my sister and I will not know whether to check on her or leave her alone.

            She up and left the call we had for my mother’s 91st birthday. Don’t know if that was because she does not like her narc grandmother or because she was upset at not having her own mother there. She is very withdrawn. I think she hates the whole family – never grew the thick skin because my sister kept her away from most of us.

            Here are perfect examples of what my mother does ALL THE TIME: Me to my niece – I asked my friend about those kittens you were interested in. Matrinarc (who lives 3 hours away from niece and is immobile): I hate cats. Me: They are not for you. Here’s another one: Me: I bought myself some roses on my birthday. Matrinarc: I hate roses, etc. What IS that??!! Is it because everything has to be about her or is it because she has to burst everyone’s bubble for some unfathomable reason? Is it so hard to say ‘that’s nice’?

            Then she will cry when I tell her I am coming home. You can’t win with this one.

            Anyway, I will have to bite the bullet and call her. Will you talk to your sons? Who did you zoom with last night?

            I can remember it snowing in Chicago in May. It’s going to turn colder here too, though not Chicago cold, so today I should take advantage of the weather.


          8. Kim e says:

            Makes me smile that some of what I say to you makes a difference. And the Odin advise…that was a blip on the Kim being overly paranoid radar.

            My kids will send me a text for MD. I will think I love you even if I wanted more and life will continue. It has always been a quagmire with me and my boys. I raised them to be independent but as I look back on it not necessarily self sufficient. I had never been taught that so it never occurred to me at the time to teach it. I was of the mind that the school will teach them that. I was wrong on a lot of levels. I could use the old term…”I did the best I could”….but did I? So now that they are independent and have taught themselves to be self sufficient I bemoan the fact that I do not hear form them more. Or I expect more when I do hear from them. The other side of the coin is I certainly am not the type if person where I would want them around all the time.

            My mother story is yesterday it dawn on me that she was dead. I tried to remember when she died but could not. I believe it happen while I was in the “fog”. Either way, I don’t care nor do I miss her. She could have been a narc (not worth my money to do the ND on her). I just know she was a cause of pain and disassociation in my life. I did cry when her 4th husband called to tell me she had dies but only because he was crying. She could do no wrong in his eyes. I have not spoken to him since that day. I have nothing to say. I know instinctively he thought I was “mean” to her. So I would see her maybe once every 5 years for 2 days and that would take care of my guilt for not seeing her. We talked maybe once a year…….and of course on the mandatory holidays. I fear that will be me and my boys……………

            Well that was a bit depressing.

            I zoomed with a friend and her husband. I was her supervisor for 10 years. She was rare type that I could also be a friend with because if I had to reprimand the worker part the friend part got it. I have known them for almost 30 years. They were with me as I watched my townhouse being built and I have lived here going on 19 years.

            I am sure HG is rolling his eyes by now. (Thanks HG for putting up with us)
            HG is another very interesting part of our lived SMH. We should be staying the hell away from him according to him,…….


          9. SMH says:

            Kim e, Happy Mother’s Day! (And ditto to everyone here who is celebrating.) I don’t think it’s anything you did or did not do with your kids. I think, like me, being a mother is not a huge part of your identity so you did not smother or guilt trip them. I find with my son that when I get annoyed at his lack of contact, he is basically just spacing out. Nothing to do with me. Also, he is very male in that he does not express his feelings much, so I kind of have to read between the lines. I basically think that if attachment works properly in childhood and you say ‘I love you’ (and mean it) all the time, then kids will be healthy in adulthood. Just my theory!

            I am sorry thinking about your mother upset you but I sure you did a lot better than she did because you are an empath and could anticipate and deliver what your kids needed. If you feel that you are repeating patterns, it could very well be something different – that is, the pattern might be similar but that doesn’t mean the reasons are. Don’t stress it or overthink it too much. Have confidence in that you raised them to be independent, and they are.

            Nice that you are connecting with more old friends. Even if you do not talk to them all the time it is important, maybe even more important. I find that my closest friends are generally the ones I do not talk to these days because we feel secure and know that each other will be there no matter what.

            I had a friend visit yesterday and she fell smack on the sidewalk, so we spent the whole time sitting until her knee stopped throbbing. While we were sitting, I noticed all the people lining up to go food shopping and I thought to myself hmmm, that’s what people are doing these days with their Saturday nights in central London. How sad!

            Today I am staying in and cleaning my flat as it’s been awhile. Definitely needs a vacuum. Maybe will have a drink this evening while I am watching the Prime Minister spew more doublespeak and mixed messages. Cheers!


          10. Kim e says:

            WOW. I did really good Saturday and Sunday as far as ET and the minute I put my head on the pillow, if I ever in my life had an insecuirty about something that happened to me it was at the forefront of my brain…n, parents, kids, high school friends, co-workers…….WTF! So today I will be running on caffeine and caffeine.

            OH NO!! I hope your friends knee is ok. Bruised but not requiring medical attention.

            I couldnt tell you wht people are doing here on Saturday nights. I am ususally watching a movie which this Saturday was just OK. It was a boxer movie with Samuel L Jackson. I think I liked him better in the Marvel movies.

            I know you will be jealous when I tell you this but I took down all the glass globes from my ceiling light fixtures and washed them Saturday. (I will give you a minute to soak in the excitement of that moment).

            Weather still cold here this week but next week in the 70’s. All the nuts will be out and I might just need to take my mask and be one of them. Gotta get out and about for a time. Morning walks will start again.

            Politicians double talk? Nonsense………….


          11. SMH says:

            Kim e, The glass globes are almost as exciting as cleaning my flat. Today I was called ‘darling’ twice by complete strangers (they do that here). Nice to see strangers.

            Cold here too and I did not sleep well last night either but I was not stressing about anything, so I really have no excuse! Are you working today? Luckily, I do not have to do much until tomorrow.

            We seem to be un-locked down (it isn’t quite clear). I believe I can now take public transport and meet up ‘legally’ with people outside my household. Suddenly, I’ve started to feel bored/ frustrated with Odin. Nothing has changed so it must be because I am finally free but he still cannot come here. Not his fault but not mine either. I’m just tired of all of it and am afraid that I will forever associate him with being trapped in lockdown unless we stop communicating until we see each other. Is this mean of me? It’s going to be hard to explain to him …


          12. Kim e says:

            OH NO. Yes I am at work and this I beleive needs my full attention. More to come…….

          13. SMH says:

            Kim e, Hurry up! I am writing an email now! (Kidding – no rush. Doesn’t mean I will send it.)

          14. Kim e says:

            I just want to make sure you are not “bored” with Odin because of your ET spike last week. That effing ET will bite you in the ass and then go hide. I am not sure one has to do with the other. I just want you to be sure so you don’t cut off your nose to spite your face. Thats all……..

            I have my next session with HG next Monday. The issue hat has been bothering me lately is I am scared to death that I will fail again. Last time I went NC it was 6 months and I still failed. HG will say but you didn’t have me talking to you. Which is true and his reinforcement does mean a lot but this empath brain of mine so on edge. I think I am going to bite the bullet and start walking in the morning even if it is cold just to get out and air the brain. Logic tells me I have a long way to go.
            So that is why I tell you that about Odin. My ET is completely different from 1 week to another as it is trying to find ways to get in. IT tried thru HG one day. Thru N’s kids FB page another. It has learned that I will not contact him or look at his SM so it is looking for other ways in. My fear of failure is where it is now. I thought well if I fail again I will just start over again. That is ET. My logic said Fuck that. I am not going thru this again.
            Sorry. Didnt mean to go off on this tangent. Just meant to tell you to make sure what you do with Odin is what you logically want to do and not your ET telling you he is boring.
            (Rum and Coke time)

          15. SMH says:

            Kim e, I think it is just a coincidence with my ET spike. It is more that I can taste freedom and I don’t want to be tied to virtual communications anymore. Had enough of that with MRN. While there is the lockdown excuse with Odin, I am fatigued. I didn’t do anything though. Figured there was not much point now and I would be repeating old patterns as I did the same thing with MRN only to go running back. Might as well not run away in the first place. If it’s going to end before it begins, Odin can do that. Or it might just fade out or not happen because I will have to leave.

            You might have a long way to go but you won’t fail again. Remember what I said the other day that resonated with you – the ET feeling is not a nice one. It comes with anxiety, fog, muddled thinking, stomach ache, etc. You don’t want to drink that particular kool-aid again. You are successfully fending off its attempts to infiltrate because your subconscious mind knows that you don’t want it. So no, you are not going through it again. This is just the battle you have to fight in the here and now. It doesn’t mean you are losing the war. I am glad you have Generalissimo or your Knight in Shining Armour HG by your side!


          16. Caroline-is-fine says:

            Hi, women…just popping in for a minute. Good insights you gave to Kim on her ET, SMH.💙 And saw your thoughts on Odin…I think doing nothing & letting it flow naturally is healthy. As a former “runner”/quitter/break-upper with my former UMR, I have had to stop myself from an over-reacting pattern of self-protection that lent itself to my prematurely fleeing situations, which I became aware of as a kind of control (a “You may hurt me – so I’ll control this by pre-tempting that by ____ (fill in the blank).” Maybe that’s not what you’re doing, but if you just don’t want to correspond with him as much as you are, you can just convey that; however, if he’s not even pressuring you, maybe you’re putting that pressure on yourself…or it could be self-protection, like you don’t want him to lose interest or to disappoint you, in meeting up or whatever.

            Self-protection is great, when it comes to fleeing a narc…and boundaries are great, in dealing with anyone…but I feel like it’s not healthy to overdo, and I think writing Odin an email like you were going to was unnecessary. If he’s *not* treating you well or pressuring you, that’s one thing. But if you just think of him as someone you correspond with and may meet up with later, there’s nothing direct you really need to say/do about it. You can just let it “be.” In the past, when I’ve thought of doing something in a similar way (with a guy), I’d ask myself a few questions:
            1) Is it necessary?
            2) WHY am I even thinking of doing this? (Sounds weird, but you’re honest with yourself, it may be for an entirely different reason than you first tell yourself).

            Just a few thoughts, for what it’s worth.

          17. SMH says:

            CIF, Where ya been? Thanks for stopping by and giving me a pep talk. This morning I did not feel like writing to doc either and realized that part of it is fatigue from all the virtual stuff.

            Neither he nor Odin has been pushy or distant. But I do feel that MRN made me more tolerant of things I should not tolerate, without me being able to recognize when that line has been crossed. Maybe I am more self-protective than I would normally be because of that but maybe the whole thing is weird, stupid and crazy too? Anyway, it is a big step is to let it be/flow naturally, but I will and see what happens. It doesn’t really matter anyway (see? I can still be dismissive even if I stick it out!).

            Good insights for Kim e? Nice to know since I cannot even pass a quiz on this site!!

            I hope ex-N is leaving you in peace and lock down isn’t treating you too badly, wherever you are waiting it out.

            Smooches and hugs to you! 💙

          18. Caroline-is-fine says:


            What virus? (🤭)…But seriously, what a change in the whole wide world. So sad, all those we’ve lost & the many other ongoing struggles. But I feel that the aspect of taking time to slow down and reflect/appreciate each other more, as well as the little things in life (which are often the big things) has been something positive that has come from the very tragic. I love seeing kids enjoying the simple things more – like being content to roller-skate or make chalk pictures on their driveways (though we all, most assuredly, wish a horrible virus wasn’t the reason for an uptick in those lovely things).

            Another positive aspect for me: The UMR is being slowed down in his plans. Yes, he’s still heading my way – but delayed. I know now that he’s doing this because he’s “obsessed” — ’cause I FINALLY got that answer right on the Hoover quiz.🤭 So don’t feel bad about your quiz, hon (and no need to apologize to Sir HG either.😛).

            I completely understand why you’re self-protective in the way you are…some of that is a good thing. I guess it’s about having a balance, so you don’t unnecessarily hang yourself up/miss out on extra joys…so maybe look at the guy situation the same way you would a good friend…like, if a friend hurt your feelings or made you feel anxious, you’d express how you felt – if it was significant enough/messing with your emotions – you’d seek clarity. Or if a friend wasn’t reciprocating – you’d pull back a little, and not overdo. So treat the guys in your life the same – have that clear, healthy way with them too…the “You treat people how to treat you” mentality…and whether friend or guy relationships, it sorts itself out – who remains in your life/is worthy to be. People (narc or not) will eventually show their colors, and it will either be a good/healthy thing for your life and work out – or it won’t.

            That being said, nobody is perfect…so we’re ALL gonna mess up/need forgiveness and grace, at times…but you will know when something feels healthy or “icky,” in due time. Trust yourself to be able to determine that, as you reflect along the way. But also give yourself some space/time to do that. You don’t need to know right away…trust yourself to be able to handle what comes, and to make good decisions along the way. You’ve learned a lot here, and the rest will be your reflections…trust the process in that.💙

            So maybe relax until you feel the ick factor/see concrete red flags — and when you establish there is not a healthy way to resolution with someone. You *may* (you’d know best) be overanalyzing it a bit too much at this point. I’d hate to see you miss out on extra joys because of that, whether Odin – or *anyone* who can make you smile & laugh/add depth to your daily experience. Maybe the focus can be less about them and more about you – in how you feel good about what you accept & don’t (boundaries). Stay open, while aware – in balance. You can always right any wrongs, as far as who you allow to *remain* in your space/invest your time in…we don’t have to be perfect…

            We have an eraser on our life pencil.🙂


          19. Kim e says:

            HA. I got a Friend request on FB today. I checked it out to make sure it wasnt someone I know. This person, a woman in her 50’s, has 106 friends. He son has 2 mutual friends to me which in my book is like 3rd cousins twice removed. I deleted the request.
            As I have no idea how one would make a fake FB account of copy someones I am taking no chances. I really doubt it was him…too much effort,,,,but I stuck to my rule. If I dont know you or we arent connected by someone I know very well and they say you are OK….you aint no friend of mine….now or ever.

            Been fighting a viral stomach thing. I went and had it verified. I am better today but still not 85%. Have not been sleeping at night. Cant shut the brain down.

            Oh well….nothing else up here.


          20. HG Tudor says:

            Well done. That was the application of logic.

  11. Kristin says:

    I saw the video this morning, unbelievable! I was still able to get it up tonight. They touched on autism so that really hit home for me.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      Just to be clear – I’m not advocating for or against the video. I looked at it because I like to take in many points of view and make up my own mind. What I meant by being at the mercy of the media is that the information we get is largely dependant upon whatever they decide to show us (sound familiar? ) but there is always more, and of course power and money are usually the drivers.

      It reminded me of narcissism and how the world sees it. The word until recently (due to Trump) was barely used by media, and when it is, it is because he is the poster boy for what people THINK narcissism is – the loud braggadocio. We were previously left in the dark about the complexities of it and thought it was something else or in most cases – us, until we found narcsite and HG. When we try to teach people about narcissism with our new knowledge what are we greeted with? Usually disbelief and skepticism. It’s no wonder victims (or targets as I prefer) are kept in a fog for so long wondering what is happening and thinking they’re crazy. It’s because there is very little provided in the media about the true nature of narcissism and that is where most of us get our information. I agree that we have to be open and to use logic in making informed decisions, but prior to arriving here how many of us were able to apply that while ensnared? I don’t immediately accept or discount any information based on the media’s portrayal or lack thereof as we now know the information can be quite unreliable and manipulated. As I said – I came away wondering about the motive of each side and to what extent narcissism is involved in the information we are given. Both sides stand to gain.

      If anyone had told me early on that I would be taking the word of a narcissist as truth I would have scoffed, but over time I felt that I was not getting ALL the information needed to make an informed decision through traditional media. I overcame my skepticism and prejudice and I went searching. It brought me here where I have been exposed to what I know to be the truth based on my experiences, but we all know that there are many who on the face of it would discount or reject the idea of accessing HG’s information when pit against the current mainstream media and the medical profession because he is a narcissist. Because of that prejudice they will be denied the information that they need, believing him to be the manipulator and not the media.

      This is the problem and why we have to keep pushing to get this site and the information therein to get into the mainstream. For those searching and still suffering.

      To the world – we here might be viewed as that video. But we know the truth.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Very well stated.

      2. FYC says:

        Excellent observation, NA. Insightful and accurate as always. We must be the fact finders. We must be the truth seekers. We will not find either from any biased source. There are too many influential factors and agendas that corrupt the facts and truth from surfacing in media (as well as all other places).

        Your connection to how were are perceived by others and how HG is perceived is spot on. Humans have a VERY difficult time getting past their preconceptions and desire to maintain a construct they have accepted. In a way, it is not only Ns that paint issues black and white. I love that you investigate all sides. I do as well. It is so very important. Well said, NA and well done.

      3. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Dearest NarcAngel,
        I viewed the video, most interesting indeed, I’m really not surprised
        I don’t like Fauci, just my female intuition
        Funny how, whistleblowers are targeted n gagged by the powers that be and doctors in China have been thrown out of windows, murdered or disappeared for exposing the truth
        Funny how the above video has violated you tubes terms n conditions haha
        We empaths are usually right about our gut feelings in the first instance, we need to stick to it and not waiver off course
        I’d say there’s more truth in it than what we realise and everything is governed by money power n greed
        I totally agree in observing both sides to make a more informed decision
        In the whole time I’ve been here, only TWO people I’ve come across in my personal life have any concept of true narcissism (one WAS married to a controlling lesser and the other, her dads second marriage was to a psychopath)
        My girlfriends still “can’t believe” about the latest antics of my mother, they look at me so surprised as if I made it up, just goes to show
        Thank you for bringing interesting observations to our attention NarcAngel, it’s very much appreciated and certainly gives one much to ponder
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

    2. Fiddleress says:

      Hi Kristin
      I cannot view this video here where I live.
      Could you please tell me what it’s called, so that I might find it on YouTube?
      Thank you!

      1. Kristin says:

        Look up Plandemic/ Dr. Judy Mikovits. Youtube keeps removing the video and I read that the CEO suggested the platform will ban videos contradicting WHO guidance.

        I did find the video on bitchute.

        I hope this helps 😊

        1. Fiddleress says:

          Kristin and SMH:
          Thank you for your replies. It seems that I cannot view any of the videos here, but never mind, I get the general idea thanks to your explanations.
          I was just curious!

      2. SMH says:

        Fiddleress, The video has been removed by YouTube, Google, Facebook, etc because it’s a conspiracy theory about the pandemic with some unsubstantiated assertions thrown in for good measure.

  12. Tired says:


  13. Kim e says:

    70. I am sure the quiz is flawed. 😳🤓

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Stop that blame shifting, Kim E!

  14. Bibi says:

    60! Pffft. Your quizzes are harder than a Lesser’s dick pic.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Your response entertained me!

      1. Bibi says:

        Now I am pleased.

      2. Violetta says:

        It’s certainly more entertaining than the Lesser’s pic usually is.

        1. Bibi says:


          I would have to agree. I had a somatic Lesser send me a vid of jerky-jerky followed by squirty-squirty.

          Needless to say, he resulted in blocky-blocky.

          1. Violetta says:

            Their assumption that others share their fascination with their courgette never ceases to amaze me.

          2. Bibi says:

            It is more a biology lesson than anything.

    2. NarcAngel says:


  15. Cat says:

    80 of 100, first try. Yes I’m a complete coward. I dared to take this one because I felt I would understand hoovers much better than the quotes-quiz, where HG asked what school of narcissist says what line. Would deffo flunk that one.

    We fear your quizzes HG.

  16. CandaceMarie says:

    Second try 65. I’m improving 😊

  17. ThePolicyOfTruth says:

    70/100 on first attempt.

    I shall read more and try again later.

    1. ThePolicyOfTruth says:

      85/100 this time

  18. ava101 says:

    But I like it that I can contact them after a loooooooong time, and they absolutely always react right away in a positive way, and it is as if no time had passed at all, and all nice.
    I knowwwww not for long.

    It is really hard not to hoover the exnarc to ask if he has died.

    HG, I can’t find my last question anymore, on if female narcs might pick more quiet, lamb like women in group settings to become lieutenants? Like … more aggressive towards me and trying to be in control, but drawing shy little mice like women on their side? Do they do it because they think those might be easy to control lieutenants?

    Thank you.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      See “The Truth About Flying Monkeys”.

      1. ava101 says:

        Yes, but, so you are saying, I am not as easily manipulated?

  19. Anm says:

    75/100. I am pretty sure I know what I got incorrect. The questions about which party is responsible for allowing the Hoovers to happen. I may have gotten that backwards. That was intriguing and entertaining. Thank you, HG!

  20. CandaceMarie says:

    50! I thought I did a lot better than that.

  21. WokeAF says:

    First try 75/100

    “I am the Former IPPS. The narcissist has moved in a new intimate partner, therefore“

    Depending on school though ! Lessers will leave you alone in golden period , and if your NC regime is tight they may forget you exist entirely and not want to show off

  22. lisk says:

    Even though I went ahead and purchased the How to Stop the Hoovers Assistance Package (and now only have $19,975 under my mattress, thanks to the 50% Lockdown Discount in the Knowledge Vault), it took me at least 20 more tries to get 100/100.

    Even now, when I go back to try again, I don’t totally trust myself to remember the nuances of the different multiple choice answers.

    Gotta revisit the rest of my KTN library, methinks.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you for obtaining the material and congratulations on achieving 100%

      1. lisk says:

        Thank you, HG.

        I am not resting on my laurels. I have reattempted the quiz at least 10 times and cannot get back to 100 yet.

        Must keep at it.

  23. Ashley says:


  24. SoldierOfLuv says:

    Whoop 🥳 I did way better this time , at least I’am able to recognize hoovers

  25. S says:

    I got 70. But I am still hedging my bet HG that you will be wrong and he will never hoover. One of his favorite parts of talking about himself is how he never breaks his word and he vowed to cut me off without ever looking back if I insulted him again and well…here we are.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      What are you willing to bet?

      1. FYC says:

        May I get in on that bet? Odds are better than even that a hoover will eventually arrive.

      2. S says:

        If you turn out to be right, I will donate for one session with you to the angel fund for someone. ☺️ I am very confident.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Bet accepted.

  26. Caity says:

    After *several* tries, and then reading more carefully how HG put the questions, finally 95 / 100. I thought I finally got the one I kept missing but then I must be missing a different one so….oh well. I passed. I may not be as skilled at what comes out of a narcissists mouth, but I evidently know a lot about when it may happen, and why. :/

    1. Leigh says:

      Me too! I can only get a 95/100. I gave up trying for now!

    2. lisk says:

      I wonder if its’ the same one I kept getting wrong. I finally got it right and then forgot the right answer again. Then remembered correctly and got 100 again.

      The correct answer is almost counterintuitive.

  27. Leigh says:

    On the 4th try, I got an 85. I’m going to keep trying until I get 100. Has anyone got them all correct yet?

  28. Sweetest Perfection says:

    75, not bad at all! I understand the hoovers better than I understand the different school of narcs, it seems…

    1. WokeAF says:

      Where is hoover carrier or conduit info located? I’ve missed it.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        How to Stop the Hoovers

  29. FYC says:

    Well, no wonder hoovers abound during Covid19 (some from years past), I only got 70/100 and I was feeling pretty confident about this one! Haha. I’m off to sign up for the remedial hoover class.

    1. lisk says:

      I got one three minutes ago from an ex-turned-friend.
      I realized in the past year that he is a narc and want I nothing to do with him. I will not even open the message.

      So glad I saw this quiz reminder today.

      1. FYC says:

        Lisk, Well done in not even opening the email! Mine have been hoovers by proxy via phone (I ignored the comments) and direct texts that go to spam. They will have to tap another fuel supply!

  30. Gina says:

    65%. Thought I did better than that! I am currently being hoovered by an ex-boyfriend of more than 25 years ago! Help me HG!

    I know the spheres of influence are in one of the books I have because I’ve read about them. Is it in Exorcism?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Help is on its way pursuant to our email exchange.

  31. strongerwendyme says:

    HG, is it you in the image for the ‘quiz’ article and “from the mouth of narcissist’ article?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      One is, one is not.

      1. strongerwendyme says:

        Is it you in the image for ‘the quiz’ article then?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          The cuffs give you the answer.

          1. Yes, you would never let your cuffs look so out of place like they are in ‘from the mouth’s article image.

          2. Violetta says:

            I’m seeing the same graphic on both quizzes. Where should I look for the one with out-of-place cuffs?

          3. NarcAngel says:

            New Post Apr 3rd. From the Mouth of the Narcissist. Not From the Mouth quiz that followed.

          4. Violetta says:

            Never mind, one graphic on quizzes, another on answer access.

            Both appear to have white shirts, unless that’s just the lighting. Wouldn’t yours be pale blue?

          5. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dear Mr Tudor,
            You’re a cufflinks man!
            Represents power, status, luxury, reputation, respect, wealth, success n an esteemed gentleman
            Buttons are for commoners … 🤣
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          6. HG Tudor says:

            HG approves.

  32. Whitney says:

    Dear HG, I thought I was going to get 100 when I clicked submit, but I got 60% 😊

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Ah, the perils of optimism Whitney!

      1. Whitney says:

        Hahahaha 😀
        Amazing quizes!

  33. Chihuahuamum says:

    65 wow i thought id do better lol

  34. strongerwendyme says:


    1. Chihuahuamum says:

      Wtg strongwendy!!

    2. Sweetest Perfection says:

      Wow girl! No hoover can conquer you! Well done!

      1. 80 isn’t 100. Always more work to do!

        1. ’80 isn’t 100. Always more work to do!’ She said sounding like Matrinarc…

  35. alexissmith2016 says:

    HG, if my replacement from the N with another IPSS (he slightly different to the typical pattern of Ns I’ve been involved with as a IPSS in that he put all of his IPSS through the GP, devaluation, discard as though they were a IPPS rather than an IPSS) keeps checking out my linkedin account but she has done this ‘hidden’ although without going into detail I know it’s her. Is she more likely to be an N or an E? Or is this equally likely? I’m pretty sure she’s an N as she has dead eyes and uses lots of STs. Just interested, it has no baring on me. Just pretty suprised she would bother to do this as it was six years ago?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. Use the Narc Detector Consultation.
      2. Use this https://gum.co/IImBq

    2. Gina says:

      One of the last interactions I had with the narc was last December. I had forgotten I even had a linkedin acct as I never use it. But I ended up getting an email from linkedin saying “someone is looking at your profile!” Well it was from the narcs company and his exact job title. Because I wasn’t nc yet, I HAD to send him an email saying “obsessed much?” Of course he lied and said it wasn’t him, he had no desire to know what I was doing or to search for me online, must have been one of the many people we just hired, but not me! Oh and Happy New Year!

      It’s so pointless trying to communicate with them. I’ve been NC since mid Feb. When you maintain contact it’s like you can’t start to get better….

      1. Kim e says:

        Completely…well almost…off topic but how do I set up emails from LI when someone looks at my profile?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Effecting this would be a bad move.

          1. Kim e says:

            HG…I mean Email Notifications sent to me when someone is looking at my profile. And now you are going to tell me it is a break of NC????????? I wasn’t thinking about this for the narc but anyone that might look at my profile and offer me a 1000000000.00 per day job

          2. HG Tudor says:

            If they’re going to do that they will contact you direct won’t they.

          3. Kim e says:

            HG. I checked out my LI settings and they are set to only my first layer of contacts can see my email address. These would be friends, family, work contacts that I know personally. Any associate requests must be approved by me.
            I set this up almost 10 years ago. Just did not remember,
            And yes….head hunters contact me right on LI.
            No NC breach here

          4. HG Tudor says:

            HG approves.

          5. FYC says:

            Kim e, Is than an AAF tattoo? How nice of you to support the angel’s cause in such a permanent way!

          6. Kim e says:

            FYC…….LOL. Never thought of that.
            I am at a loss for her name right now but she is of German descend and decided that the men in the village were not “taking care” of the woman the way they should have and that more sex was called for.
            Also, it is said that Fairies feel emotions much more intensely than humans….like emapths do.
            As soon as the tattoo parlors are open, I already have my eye on another fairy……

          7. FYC says:

            Interesting, Kim e, perhaps a tattoo of the three graces? You know, GOSO, No Contact and Zero Impact. They will shield you all of your days and are known to bring peace, joy and strength.

          8. Kim e says:

            Perhaps a hollow sun with a small circle of broken hearts in the middle and NC in the middle of that circle. Maybe I will do a contest with suggestions from the blog as to my next tat.

          9. SMH says:

            Kim e, Is that your arm? How many tats do you have? I don’t have any.

          10. Kim e says:

            LOL. Yes it is my arm. I have 3. Maybe I will change my picture so you can see the other 2….Keep watching.

          11. NarcAngel says:

            Kim e
            Your nose just grew about a foot!

          12. Kim e says:

            NA……HAHAHA. I really am innocent on this one. Since I have NEVER gotten an email from LI, I did not know what she was talking about and now I do.

          13. NarcAngel says:

            Kim e
            Haha. My apology then.

        2. Gina says:

          Right. It’s probably in your profile settings. I didn’t do it on purpose. Once he did that I went and blocked him from my LinkedIn as well. At this point most of his family is also blocked from my social. I realized he had access to several of their computers because he helps fix them when needed.

      2. alexissmith2016 says:

        Ah gosh yes! NC all the way. This is a girl who was my replacement. I don’t know her well enough, but I suspect she is some sort of mid-range narc. Just find it weird she would be checking my profile after so long?

        1. Gina says:

          Right now the only time I feel like I’m violating NC is when I talk to my daughter. She’s 20. Unfortunately she lives with him, is his nipps. Sometimes I hear him in the background while I’m talking to her. ☹️

      3. blackcoffee30 says:

        Those emails were so annoying; I turned them off years ago. When I went NC I revised my LI because it triggered the memory of my LI existence. LOL I’d only want to get those notifications if I was actively job hunting anyhow.

        1. SMH says:

          I just happened to look at LinkedIn today because I had two connection requests. Whaddya know but there were two private views. It’s been quite awhile. Maybe COVID-19 is getting to narc after all. Forgot about it as soon as I left the site.

      4. SMH says:

        Gina, LinkedIn was the narc’s favorite way to creep me online, but his visits were completely ‘private.’ I called him out on it and they stopped. One more followed and I brought it to his attention (I had escaped but we were not NC yet). He said ‘I never go on LinkedIn’ but his profile is public and I could see that he had ‘liked’ an article the same day he had creeped me.

        1. Gina says:

          Block him. You’ll never get what you want from him.

          1. SMH says:

            Gina. I’ve been NC for two years. Zero interest.

          2. Kim e says:

            NC with me too I see 😂😂😂😂

          3. SMH says:

            lol Kim e, No I am not! I haven’t seen anything from you or it has not been directed to me. Also had a very busy work week. Did you see my comment about 2 private views on LI? I hadn’t checked it for ages because I’m not OCD anymore, but I got two connection requests so I clicked on the link and saw who had viewed my profile. MRN must be getting cabin fever because it’s been months. Someone must also be reading over my shoulder.

            Busy day ahead with lots of video chats. Sigh. Not sure how much more of this I can take. Odin thinks it will be a few weeks but I think it will be longer. HG, what do you think? When will the rest of us be sprung? (I know you are not locked down – you must be in Scandinavia.)

            So update me, Kim e. Last I heard, you were gearing up for a consult. Smooches!

          4. HG Tudor says:

            I am able to move around for particular reasons. I am in Central Europe at the moment.

          5. SMH says:

            Ah well I knew you were not in the UK, HG. I want to smash the telly. Any idea when we will be sprung? Don’t tell me never!

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Define “sprung”.

          7. SMH says:

            Ha, HG, When can I get to my office (requires a commute by train)? When will offices be up and running?

          8. Kim e says:

            Thank goodness you aren’t ignoring me. I thought it was a typical first date, we had a drink together and then you never call!!!! I was feeling so used………..
            I saw about LI. Could be him OR it could just be a headhunter looking for job recruits. I get on LI about 2 times a week, look thru my notifications, read some articles and that is it. I got on it when I got laid off in 2013 at the suggestion of a coworker. I do get a lot of job hits but I am fine for now where I am. Otherwise it is a FB for professionals.

            I actually saw Kathi yesterday. I went to her house and we sat at either end of her patio in the 77 degree weather. It was heaven….warmth and a live human to interact with. It did start to sprinkle so we went inside maintaining 6 feet. With her past illnesses I let her dictate the terms.
            I actually got sunburned!!!!!!

            My consult(s) with HG are informative and helpful. He has me talking to myself every time N enters my mind to get him out of it. My ET is so strange. I can go 23.5 hours and not think of it at all then then all of a sudden it is like ET has a life of it;s own and wakes up saying “warning warning she has not thought about N is a long time…wake her up…warning warning….” The stomach jumps, the BP rises and it is there. But the times are getting longer and I believe the duration shorter. Still have a long long way to go. I am not shortsighted enough to say that if I got hoovered it would not at this point F with my mind. But I also remember that it is very hard for him to hoover with my NC in place. He could “walk the dog” and show up in my back yard but he will not do that because he is a lazy MRN and he will not take the chance of being wounded. Also, he is very busy, I would imagine, keeping all the appliances spinning in the correct direction. I am really grateful I am not one of those appliances.

            Texting with my shopper now and when she is finished I will go pick up my groceries. Chat with the kids later tonight.
            Watched Pirates Of The Caribbean last night. Love JD in that movie…narc or not.

            How are things with Odin? Did you bring up your B day to him? If so what happened? How was your B day? Do Anything exciting?

            I am with you. this thing is far from over. Still looking forward to Vegas in August tho. Need something to look forward to.


          9. SMH says:

            Kim e, We have been on way more than one date so you should know me by now!!

            I don’t get recruited for jobs for various reasons that I won’t go into. If I were, it wouldn’t be through LI. In any case, it doesn’t matter. I thought it was funny that I had just written about it here and there they were. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was MRN because in his mind I belong to him. But I don’t care either. I really don’t. In my mind, he doesn’t register. My mind is what matters, not his.

            I know exactly what you mean about the ET. That used to happen to me as well – it was like I was relaxed for awhile and suddenly my mind would have to give me a hit. Feeding the habit with ET since the narc makes sure it is high all the time, that’s what your body becomes accustomed to. Eventually, it will stop precisely because you are not an appliance. You’re out of that.

            Glad you got some normalcy with Kathi. I spoke to one friend today who is having a bit of a hard time because crazy son. I see another one once or twice a week and meet others occasionally, but I have only seen three friends in person for the past 7 weeks. Really weird. Also had a family Zoom today – two hours! It was fun. Three generations. I hope you enjoy yours!

            Things with Odin are good. I did not bring up my b’day but I was busy with work, lots of calls and texts. I really didn’t need him. He doesn’t know me! Ha. Really on your birthday you want to touch base with your closest and dearest, and he is not. Maybe next year. In the meantime, he entertains, so let’s hope I can hold out and not leave until we see each other again. It had better be worth it after all of this.


          10. Kim e says:

            Just made an appointment for a massage this coming Thursday. A mask will be the most I have ever worn for a massage. Hope it doesn’t take away from the experience. She is coming to my house as usual with
            her Purel, mask and heated table. It will be heaven. Another scheduled for the 16th. Maybe that one will be a reiki treatment. I will have a rum and coke ready for her.
            As my face is down on the table in a towel and now mask and when up also with a towel over it to block the light, I am not worried. I will use my towels to be more sure……………..it will be the best 50.00 I have spent in forever.

            I have zoom meetings for work and some are pretty funny. Last week I had one with my boss who is in Philly and another IT guy in Philly, Pat. Pat is munching on bacon and toast for the meeting. My boss looks like he hasn’t slept in weeks…his wife is PG. I of course was beautiful as always with no makeup…not sure I will remember how to put it on….and hair not curled. I wonder if the make up goes bad from just sitting there…like the mascara with all the eye germs from 9 weeks ago.

            You sound so torn about Odin. Wish timing was different but I guess it was meant to happen like this

            Any word on your return to the good old US of A? Don’t know if you have heard where you are but there is a nasty virus going around and now we all have to hide under masks. Maybe I don’t have to worry about make up……LOL

            HG in the morning…….work………….then…………….


          11. SMH says:

            Haha Kim e, nasty virus indeed. I was just looking at USA vs UK stats because I have to talk to my boss about leaving, and it is actually worse in the UK in terms of deaths per million pop. Today the UK will have the highest number of deaths in Europe. No surprise to me.

            I am only a little torn about Odin. He doesn’t really figure in my decision-making but if I can’t leave until lockdown ends, presumably we will see each other before I go. I don’t consult him, though I will tell him once I have a date. He can come to NYC if we don’t manage to see each other and he wants to before next year!

            Please take a shower after your massage. It does not sound safe to me at all. I am surprised that IL is even allowing it.

            I did put a little makeup on today – even fixed my hair – for the 3 meetings on my agenda. Normally I do not but I feel that we are starting to come out of it and so must I! Good question about makeup. Chances are low but doesn’t hurt to replace anything that goes on your face. Today I took in the mail and then washed my hands and used hand gel before I put makeup on.

            Talk to you later. Smooches!

          12. Kim e says:

            I am sure IL does not allow it but I am. I feel safe with us washing our hands a couple times before she starts and keeping the mask on. As long as I am not touching my face it will be OK. On my stomach I cant get to my face to touch it anyways. But for you I will take a shower.

            Wonder why it is worse in the UK as far as deaths. More time to prep here?

            Are you staying there for the job? Or because of the virus? I lost that trail somewhere along the line.

            I had my consult with HG this morning. I am progressing well. I am recognizing the ET more and more. The one that that has changed for me is the blog used to trigger me a lot. But now I catch AHA moments from it as I did this morning. In the past I would have discounted what I read or glazed right over it. This time it grabbed hold of me and made me read it 3 times. AHA………
            Still a long way to go but the little victories along the way help.

            I did my hair when I went to see Kathi. Felt good and looked great!!!!!!

            Baking strawberry bread after work. It is not really on my Weight Watchers list but I will use it as a treat. I am maintaining my wieght which is a biggie just sitting all day.
            Off to earn some money.

            Smiles, hugs and smooches

          13. HG Tudor says:

            Progress indeed Kim E, well done and your commitment to a programme is paying huge dividends for you.

          14. Kim e says:

            HG. Thank you. I will stroke that ego of yours and say it is mostly because of you….and my out right stubborness!!!!!

          15. SMH says:

            Kim e, well, I know you will do what you will do. But the thing is, it’s about more than your own safety. What if you are asymptomatic, you give it to the masseuse who gives it to her next client, who gives it to her elderly mother? That’s one reason not to have a massage right now.

            Probably worse in the UK because the US has not had time to get there yet. It will likely be just as bad. We are almost out of it here – meet four out of the five criteria to start lifting lockdown. I think that will start happening next week. Still doesn’t mean Odin will appear because his company also has to decide how they are going to handle the office, if work from home should continue, clients need to be willing to meet, etc.

            Today I went to the P.O. There was tape on the floor every 2 meters, I was wearing a mask. There was a woman in front of me and a man in front of her, all of us standing on the tape and masked. Suddenly, the woman turns and starts yelling at ME to stand back. The guy in front of her pointed out that he was the same distance from her as I was, but it was as if she thought I was going to get up right into her face. I should have. Instead, I yelled back and told her to get a fucking grip. Honestly, if people cannot handle the new normal and are afraid of even seeing other people, they should not be out. Period.

            All that rolls across the news are numbers of deaths and illness. Day in and day out. Instead of saying, ‘the numbers of deaths are x lower than they were yesterday,’ the media adds the deaths to the old figure and says ‘the number of deaths has risen to x.’ No matter what governments are doing, the media has not been any help at all. The only things that help are scientific journal articles, which the doc sends me plenty of, even though I do not understand most of what I read!

            I have to stay because of the job to be in the right time zone for awhile longer. But also it isn’t safe to go back to NYC right now. I can go, however, in a month or so, or so says my boss. So two months it is, though I am not sure I can stand it.

            Maintaining your weight and controlling your ET. Sounds like you are on the road to recovery and it seems that HG approves. See? Lock down has been good to you!

            I used to get triggered by the blog and by HG himself. Hasn’t happened for a long time. Three private views now on LinkedIn, up from two yesterday (sometime in the past few weeks). What are the chances that at least one is MRN? Pretty high, I’d say. Still, like the wimp that he is, he will never email me, just like W will not walk his dog behind your house.


          16. Kim e says:

            The US is so messed up with this thing. States down south….GA, SC, ….are just reopening with no social distancing at all. Airlines and trains are just now requiring masks. I see a great spike coming as it is laxed in places before it should be. Reports on the news (HAHAH it is a joke too) that the white house expects the deaths to rise drastically. Now sure who said it but I actually believe it. Illinois had a drop in deaths but of course with the warm weather come the idiots that don’t listen. And I really dont want to hear the “Oh they are poor and didnt know” sob story. It is the responsibiltiy of the local governement to amke suire they all know….no matter how rich or poor they are.

            I am still thinking about my massage.

            LOL….I dont want to hear about some crazed woman in the UK being arrested for crowding people in the Post Office…LOL I would have told her to Bite Me…..my favorite term when strangers give me shit. People are nuttier than normal these days and that is pretty hard to do.

            Stay there as long as you can. From what yout ellme I think you are better off there as far as the virus goes.

            Rainy day here. Last week there was a rainy day and it triggered me really bad. Today…not so much
            Yesterday the day was ok but around 5:00 I got so unhappy…cant say depressed…just unhappy. I took a shower, but on my jammies, turned off my phone, closed the blinds, and watched a movie. Not sure if it is N withdrawal or people in general withdrawal. I am ok today.

            N ( I am not allowed per HG to use W) and that dog. For some reason, I think I told you this before, I did not at the time nor do I now belive it is his dog. Not sure why….just dont. If I am wrong, then I feel bad for both the dog and more so for the IPPS that now has 2 to take care of.


          17. SMH says:

            Kim e, They indeed are nuttier than normal. A friend was yelling at joggers when we were out a few weeks ago. If I had said ‘bite me’ to the P.O. woman, I probably would have been charged with a threatened assault or something. You never know! Next time it will be ‘if you cannot stand the heat get out of the kitchen.’ Should be pretty safe with that one.

            I follow the US news but NYC has a good governor and if things are not looking way up as the time gets closer, I’ll change my ticket. All of the airlines are allowing that kind of flexibility. It is a shit show here too – highest number of deaths in Europe now. I don’t plan to end up in the hospital in either place, so what’s the diff if I sit here or sit there? I have A LOT more room there.

            I see your other tat. What is it?

            Part of your mood is certainly due to people withdrawal in general, I would think. Hard to separate at the moment but you strike me as on a pretty even keel now. You are even rethinking your massage!

            You mean to tell me that the dog wasn’t his? So he got the dog just to be able to walk it by your house? Or so you’d ask questions? Pretty weird/twisted – what will they think of next!

            I had a long day. Got a melancholy-ish message from Odin and tried to cheer him up but I was pretty busy myself. Now flopped on the sofa contemplating what to watch and how early I can go to sleep.


          18. Kim e says:

            How about Fornicate yourself? I like that one too. The puzzled look in their eyes will say it all!!!

            Our governor stated today about opening stuff in stages and gave possible months for those openings. That is fine BUT there are these nuts out there that are going to say…he said in august they would open the restaurants….it is august…open them…liar….he said…..” Bad enough people are protesting because us bad landlords are still expecting some sort of rent payment. Like we don’t have bills to pay

            My tat is a chakra. Since you saw this one I will change the picture again so you an see the last one

            the dog…I cant answer any of your questions. He talked about getting a dog on and off the time we were together but it was always when we were with someone that did have a dog. I have seen people around here walking a boxer like he had Maybe it is a neighbor and he was being the nice guy…….I just got a gut feeling it wasn’t his.

            Today my food was weird. I had chicken, cottage cheese, fruit salad and an apple at 10:00. Then at 1:00 I had jello with cool whip and Fritos. Dinner will be Manwhich in a wheat pita pocket.
            LOL……..guess I will have a R&C with my sandwich.

            I am SO ready to move on with my life. Tired of the N shit. Tired of the lock down.
            Vegas better be open in August or there will be trouble…………


          19. SMH says:

            Kim e, weird food indeed. I’d be happy not to pay rent but so far I have paid it because no reason not to.

            I am tired too. We have a mistress scandal here now by the architect of the lockdown strategy. I think in people’s minds it is therefore over. Vulnerable people will just have to take precautions. I’m spending the day outside in the sun.

            Thanks for explaining the tat. I can’t see the rest of your comment as I am responding on my phone but will check it out later. Have a good one! Smooches!

          20. Kim e says:

            What a dream I had last night. Woke up stunned and then started laughing. Cat thought she was going to have to feed herself from now on because I had lost it!!!! The following is just background info.
            (The last time I texted with N was on a Monday. I did not work that Thursday and he did not work that Friday. The lock down started Friday at 5:00. Not sure he even knows I am gone)

            It was a bright sunny day. I was back to work and things were excellent. Walking to go get lunch with a co-worker, I hear someone call my name. I look and it is N. I am stunned but just keep walking. Co-worker is looking at me but says nothing. My name is screamed now…very loud. I ignore. “KIM>>>WHERE DID YOU GO?????” I keep walking. “Who is that” asks co-worker. “Oh it is my past life…nothing to concern myself with” I reply
            All of a sudden my phone just starts ringing with an unknown number. I ignore…it rings…I ignore…it rings…..I ignore…it rings….I ignore……it rings

            This is where I wake up get my bearings and literally laugh out loud. OMG it was so real.

            At least withdrawal has some funny aspects to it…………….

            This dream brought to you by Kim’s subconcious…….LOLOLOLOL

          21. SMH says:

            Kim e, That is VERY disconcerting but it does not surprise me. Our consciousness is just as affected by ET as our emotions are. I rarely dreamed about N but I had all kinds of weird things happen when I was awake, including once becoming him looking at me looking at him, and then literally feeling him when he wasn’t there. I hope it does not ruin your day!

            I had a serious wobble today! Pretty sure the hoovers have done their trick. Early May is our NC anniversary and now I fear the walls will go up with Odin. I think N has somehow disrupted every relationship I’ve tried to have. It’s like he knows what I am doing and he makes his presence felt just at the right time to stop me. I cannot keep allowing N to control me.

          22. Kim e says:

            My dream did not ruin my day but your ET spike did.
            I feel for you girl. He doesnt know about Odin is it just the Anniversary hoover.
            Give it a couple days and see how you feel The spike is just that…A spike. Just keep telling him to…get the f out of your mind. Reject the ET when it comes. Think of me naked with tats all over and try to tell what they are. Think of your kids.
            Stop looking LI. That is a break of NC. If you have to look at LI for work then tell yourself all the BS looks are people that think you are fabulous and want you to work for them. Dont look at spam Email. Dont look at IG. Get off all of it.
            But most of all….breath. You are OK…really. A minor set back.
            Stay away from Odin until your ET is lower. Dont ignore him but make up a reason why you cant chat.
            You got this………….
            I am here…we are all here.
            Smooches and hugs
            It is a spike that feels like you have failed and he has won BUT THAT IS NOT TRUE. Your ET will never go completely away.

          23. SMH says:

            Kim e, Glad your dream isn’t ruining your day and thank you for the great advice and the laughs (and thank you HG, for putting it through). Odin is working today, I am not, and I said I’d be in touch when I got home (I went on a 6 mile walk). I’ll just send him a quick text with some pics when I know he won’t be able to respond at length.

            I only go on LI when I get a connection request, which is important for some things. I have not looked at anything else in ages – not FB, not IG, none of it. But you are right that I am drawing the connections myself – or my ET is. It’s like what you said the other day – my ET wants back in. Why? I do not know!

            Double smooches!

          24. Kim e says:

            Your ET wants back in becasue your were programmed to it.
            Just think of SMH now and it will calm down.
            Believe me…I know what the spikes feel like. But now I know they will lessen in an hour and the next day be gone.
            Take a nap. Go for another walk. Have a beer.
            Just remember…you might not ever hear from him again.
            Smooches………smiles and hugs
            Yes..thanks HG

          25. SMH says:

            Kim e, I see you! Very daring to show your face (sort of) and I like your mask. I have a very similar one – black with tiny stars and planets. Where did you get yours?

            Go for another walk? I can’t even get off the sofa. Really, my feet are all blistered now. I wore sneakers but I should have had hiking boots. I saw Buckingham Palace (St James Park) as well as men in suits leaving Downing Street.

            On the way back, I went into a Chinese grocery where they did a temperature check before allowing anyone in. Inside, everyone was masked. Then I went to the regular British grocery store – no temp check and no masks.

            My ET has receded, thanks. Maybe sending Odin some pics helped. I’ll go to sleep early tonight anyway after looking at the moon.

            I already thought I would never hear from N again. It’s harder to think that I might!

            Smooches back!

          26. Kim e says:

            I am hiding. And how do you know it is me??????? HUH?????? My girlfriend in texas made me 2. She is making more and sending since she had to get more materials.

            Did you stop in the Palace for tea? I am sure they would have been happy too see you. Any body of any importance home? Just tell them HG sent you. They will either give you an extra bisket or shoot you. But what the hell…take the chance!!!!! If it is the later…I will miss you.

            just in….over 2200 new corona cases in IL with 136 additional deaths. You heard it here first. I have also been hearing very disturbing news regarding children that are showing complete differrent symptoms then the original symptoms.

            See that is the issue…there is no structure to the lock downs. Either the place should be completely opened or completely locked down. I am not a government rah rah type but damn it…they need to take control and let the little whiners that are screaming about their rights go to hell. All the scremaing is good untill one of them gets it and then the government did not protect them…(from themselves) These people are my brother in law…nephew…his g friend….my niece…my nephew in law……
            My nephew is 29 and he doesnt believe the planes flew into the towers or that we ever landed on the moon. And yes….forgive me for saying it but they all voted for T. (puke)

            I am glad your ET is lower. It fights hard when it comes back. And I dont want to burst your bubble since you sould calm now but it is not a matter of if you will hear from him but when. But I honestly think that since you ahd yourself convinced he was gone forever, this really kicked you in the gut. Next time it will be easier and the time after easier. And ever time he does it and you ignore him, he gets wounded until finally it goes thru that empty head of his and he thinks…well shit….think I will leave her alone for a long time……
            He will disappear. But you can never let your guard down totally…………..hope you know what I am saying. There is always a chance….just like catching VD…always a chance.

            Call me when you get up in the morning and check in.


          27. NarcAngel says:

            Has anyone else seen the Plandemic (not a typo) interview with dr judy mikovits on youtube? I no sooner watched it when it was removed from youtube but there others. She calls out Fauci as a fraud. There’s always a conspiracy and I’m not saying anyone should put stock in it but I mention it because I came away thinking so who is the narc? She? He? Both? We really are at the mercy of the media.

          28. Kim e says:

            NA. I agree. The media especially the big stations are the worst. The are either completely for a side or against it. What happened to the media not taking a stand on anything. Unbiased.
            I personally think F is a scapegoat of the N president

          29. SMH says:

            Kim e, Good morning! Checking in as directed. Like VD is right! And of course you are also correct that I had been saying for ages that he would ‘never’ hoover me again, yet here we are. (HG is right too, just for the record.) I didn’t want to be on high alert for the rest of my life so I hid my head in the sand. It is gone this morning, in any case. Good to know that it goes.

            There has been some structure here but it doesn’t seem to have made any difference and now that the architect of the lockdown was found to have broken his own rules by having his mistress over to his house (can’t make this stuff up), the government is trying to get ahead of the story and is lifting restrictions on Monday. It has been like living in a Kafka/Orwell mashup.

            I have indeed heard about the children but who knows what it is. Maybe the virus, maybe not, right? Along those lines, it is interesting to me that we don’t hear about ANYTHING else anymore. What happened to all those young people ending up in the hospital due to vaping, for instance?

            The Queen and the RF have completely disappeared – up in the country somewhere. Probably having tea in exile with HG and the rest of the posh people. Nice to walk around tourist-free however.

            My feet really hurt today so staying close to home with work to do. Chat later. Smooches!

            P.S. That video is a conspiracy theory with a grain of truth and a whole lot of lies. Stay safe no matter what the wackos choose to do.

          30. lisk says:


            Thank you for the recommendation for dr judy mikovits. Good stuff. We’re only at the mercy of the media if we believe what they say. Problem is, too many believe.

            You better stay home
            And do as you’re told
            Get out of the road if you want to grow old

          31. SMH says:

            Like just about everything out there, there is a little bit of truth to this. But there are also a whole lot of untruths. Does your immune system ‘drop’ if you stay home for two months? Sounds ridiculous to me. Also, just because someone is making money, and I am sure lots of people are, doesn’t mean that it is the wrong course. Lots of people all over the world are working on vaccines. Are all doctors/scientists everywhere victims of the ‘deep state’ or in it for the money? Blah, blah, blah.

          32. lisk says:

            ‘Tis always good to question.

            Otherwise we are just Baa, Baa, Baa.

          33. SMH says:

            Yes use your brain and your common sense. Of course we know we (now) have both in spades. Otherwise we would not be on this site.

          34. lisk says:

            Sometimes I wonder . . . .

          35. SMH says:

            Well, we know how we got here at least – by not using our brains and common sense

          36. Kim e says:

            Well, we know how we got here at least – by not using our brains and common sense

            Our brains nor common sense is what got us here. If we could have controlled our brain and common sense we would never have needed this place

          37. SMH says:

            Kim e, operative word is ‘not,’ at least before arriving here 🙂

          38. lisk says:

            There’s ABSOLUTELY NO QUESTION about that.


          39. mommypino says:

            “‘Tis always good to question.

            Otherwise we are jus Baa, Baa, Baa.”

            Ha! Couldn’t be more true! “Four legs good, two legs bad!” No wonder we are so divided in this country. It’s been more than a decade since I have read that book. Would love to read it again with the perspective on narcissist politicians and how they divide and conquer to attain and maintain power.

        2. Violetta says:


          Don’t know if you’re online at the moment, but I answered your query about the job market on “Blind or Stupid?” It was a loooooong answer, so it took time to be moderated. Have since applied for an office job in government. They’re slowly starting to post them again.

          1. SMH says:

            Hi Violetta, I haven’t seen it but I will look for it on Blind and Stupid. I hope you are happy with the new possibilities and a good fit turns up. There are lots of interesting and well paid government jobs.

          2. Violetta says:

            At least I’ll feel like it’s honest work. FU has turned into a diploma mill. One of the high muck-a-mucks sent out a general e- to everyone who’s passed the grad teaching training course (which was a joke in itself) asking us to pick areas where we’d like to work. I checked for my mentor’s name (they’d actively booted her after 20 years under the old administration, whereas I just got fewer sections every term), and sure enough, her name was there. We had a LONG phone call during which we discussed, with disgust, the people who’d passed the training course after leaving a total of THREE comments on sample student papers (5 pp).

            We’d be cheating students out of an education if we did things the way the current administration wants. My mentor and I both worked in publishing, and we know their research won’t be accepted if they don’t learn the things we used to teach them. I’ve worked in grant offices, and they won’t get grant applications approved either.

            On the bright side, a student from a few years ago contacted me to thank me for working with him to improve his writing. Reminds me why we did this in the first place.

          3. SMH says:

            Violetta, Thanks. No I had not seen that post. It is nice to get an email like that and know you had a profound impact on someone’s life!! Hope the student gets what they need regardless. Not sure which state U system you are referring to but sounds like Midwest. Ohio, Indiana, something like that where there are good campuses and then satellite ones with fewer resources and lower standards.

            It is probably best for you to get out of the sector anyway given COVID, because from what I have read, universities are going to have a really hard time in the coming years and many will collapse. I know people with PhDs working in other sectors, including in the federal government, from USAID to the Smithsonian. You can still have an impact, even publish if you want to, and maybe even feel more satisfied. Definitely more secure.

            Funny story: I once had a sort of boyfriend with a PhD in History. He went to work for the feds. We lost touch. Years later, I googled him and the only thing that turned up was that he had been expelled from Russia as a suspected CIA agent. He became a spook! (HG is probably the British equivalent.) To this day, there are no pics of him online. Funny but when I met MRN he was so secretive I thought he was also a spook (even though he said he was Canadian), either that or a Mormon missionary.

            Anyway, I hope you are okay for now and find interesting possibilities. Look forward and not back. Keep us posted!

          4. Violetta says:


            Here’s the emal: the student sent:

            I just wanted to thank you for giving me the confidence I needed to achieve my degree. I struggled as a writer all through school. You were the first teacher to speak the truth about my writing deficiencies. I graduate in May with two bachelor degrees in accounting. You may remember me as the student with MS. During the fall 2020 trimester. I start my master’s program at [FU].

            I was tempted to tell him to run like a rabbit to another program before FU’s main campus crashes and burns like the branch campus. I suppose that would be unprofessional.

          5. Violetta says:


            The plot thickens. Got an email from the branch campus course director, cc-ing the main campus course director:

            As we close out the semester, I am reaching out to faculty who taught courses in FA 2019 or SP 2020 to collect syllabi that are missing from our files of collected syllabi. This collection is particularly important given the closure of the campus, as students rely on copies of syllabi to facilitate their transfers to other schools.

            Please send me the requested files by Wed. May 6.


            My answer was a forwarded email with attachment:

            This was the syllabus I sent Janey [the office administrator] in August.


            Janey was the go-to person, the only one in the office who knew where everything was and how to get it fixed.  She was probably there years before any of these ass-wipes.

            I suspect hey laid her off along with everyone else, and now they’re fucked.

          6. SMH says:

            Violetta, likely of course re admin support. A friend was complaining on FB about this very thing, and students with no technical support either. Don’t the students already have the syllabus? Would be odd to take a course without one. It sounds like a very exploitative situation for both you and the students.

          7. Violetta says:


            As soon as I forwarded the info, I realized I could have answered the Course Disrupters, “I can’t find the flash drive with those files, but I sent my syllabus to Janey at the beginning of the term. I’m sure she has it, because I got email from her notifying me that she had received it.”

            It might have been kind of fun to see what they did next. If Dr. Branch hadn’t thrown that line in there about the students needing it to transfer, I might have been more tempted to take the position that this is no longer my problem, if it ever was.

            Dr. Main may have advised her how to play it. When he gave me fewer sections than he had initially promised in the Fall, I told him, “I’ll have to get another job.” He asked me if I was walking out without finishing the term, and I said, “No, I would never do that to my students. But I’ll need to pick up some sections from another school.for this term.” I didn’t say that I would try to switch to another job altogether for the following term, but I think he got the message: I said I wouldn’t do that to my students, but I obviously didn’t mind leaving him in the lurch.

          8. Violetta says:


            They had an insane system where instead of handing the students hard copies and/or e-ing them the syllabus, we were supposed to go week by week putting assignments “live,” so they “wouldn’t get confused.” I never heard of such a thing. Back when I did my undergrad, you got dates for papers, exams, etc., and as a TA, I would have a prompt for each formal essay with due dates for first draft, peer review in class, and final version, along with topic, min/max pages, and number of sources required.

            They had assignment “objects” so you had to click on each one to see the assignment details, then click on another object for later parts of the assignment. If we had to move things around, we had to put it in edit mode, click and drag the objects, save the change, and select “publish to students.” Leave out just one of those steps, and the change can’t be seen by the students, and they can’t submit assignments. I spent more time fiddling with that than reviewing papers or trying to.stay ahead on the readings, most of which were crap anyhow–dreary topics with uninspiring prose. I could teach “Letter From a Birmingham Jail” or “Modest Proposal” in my sleep, I’ve done it so many times, but the readings they used had neither content nor rhetorical appeals worthy of discussion.

            The idea that these students couldn’t handle the classics is bullshit. I saw a roomful of urban students analyzing a section from the “Crito” wake up as soon as they found out he had to bribe the warden to get him in to see Socrates, so he could try to talk him into busting out.

          9. SMH says:

            Violetta, That does sound insane. A lot of busy work for what? Of course the students were capable but management needs to find something to do with all its bullshit jobs. Micro-managing is the most annoying thing in the world but where would all those gormless people be without creating insane amounts of work for everyone else? I got an email the other day with some manager’s instruction regarding working from home (probably Health and Safety here) and I responded (on a mass email), ‘who is this person and why should I listen to her?’ No one answered because they did not know! Sounds like you are well rid of that institution.

          10. Violetta says:


            There was one series of assignments where the system kept “losing” them. Originally, you’d download each assignment for the entire class in a zip file which automatically attached the student’s name when it was first uploaded. You could get offline to review them, which was convenient if you were travelling as well as saving high-speed, then get back on to post the grades and comments.

            This showed nothing in the Dropbox. There was a ridiculously complicated way to access them, but you couldn’t download them all at once as usual: either you had to grade them one student at a time online, which would eat up my high-speed plan if I didn’t sit in a school lab to do it, or you had to export the info to an excel chart with the students’ names and the first line of the post, and then match them to a document full of paragraphs with no names attached. This worked fine for the course directors, who sat in their fancy offices using the school’s broadband to do it, but not so useful for adjuncts, especially the ones teaching on branch campuses (an hour each way this last term) or teaching remotely.

            I did two things after this first incident: told students instead of typing it directly into the assignment box, to save everything on Word with name and assignment number in the .doc title and e- as an attachment, or just write it in class on looseleaf paper.

            I was angry for my students as well as for myself. Technology is supposed to make things easier, not harder: the comment feature on Word means I don’t have to write “comma to separate dependent clause” a dozen times. It also means students don’t have to decipher my handwriting, which gets progressively worse each time I write it.

            This system was designed with a bunch of fiddly little features for no apparent reason except it made somebody who didn’t have to use it feel important.

            Yeah, you’re right. My old course director told me, “Get out as soon as you can,” when the new administration took over. He took a lectureship at a school that had none of the prestige or pay of being a Course Director, but he rightly suspected it was a hell of a lot more stable. I tried to do the same, but the more they tweaked the curriculum and the computer interfaces, the less time I had to fill out applications. My mentor had worked there for 20 years and pretty much gave up sleep to meet their deadlines, but they still canned her.

            There was an opening in the judicial branch I applied for, among others they’ve started re-posting. I think it would be interesting, and since I’ve done legal transcription and legal proofreading, I might have a good chance. I don’t want to be rejected as over-qualified but I also don’t want to lie about the PhD. Since so many people are switching from higher education to other sectors, as you pointed out, it may not be the problem it would have been years ago. The pay and benefits are HELLA better than F.U., and since I won’t have to take my work home with me, I could audition for local productions when the theatres open back up. I was teaching mostly night school or had that insane commute, so I haven’t been able to do any theatre in a while. At least when I had crap day jobs in NY, I could do church basement shows at night.

            Now I just have to get off my cowardly little duff and listen to “The Narcissist at Work,” which I ordered weeks ago and still haven’t listened to. I swear, I’d rather get in a brawl with a psycho on the subway than have to fend off attempted manipulations.

          11. SMH says:

            Violetta, I couldn’t even follow that!! Made my head explode. Can’t imagine what it would mean to figure it out/do it. Sounds like hell. Imagine how great it will be to have your time back, get a regular pay check, benefits, etc. I don’t know about the credentials but you will probably be asked about them if you get to the interview stage, so have a good answer, though it doesn’t sound like you will need to convince anyone why a different sector is a better choice. Maybe you should do stand up – you sound a bit like Mrs Maisel, to be honest 🙂 and HE might make a good comedy routine.

          12. Violetta says:


            With so many people changing sectors as you said, it may not be an issue these days. Without going into a long rant about my previous employer (which is always a bad move), I think I may mention that the programs are getting very regimented and I’m just not interested in the material they’re having us teach. There’s a certain amount of truth to that, and it doesn’t sound quite as negative as saying point-blank that I’m disgusted by the way they dumb everything down for our students.

          13. SMH says:

            Hi Violetta, Yes good idea to come up with something limited about the job you want to leave behind because they will surely ask you, but I think you should concentrate more on the positives oriented towards the job you want. How do your skills and interests cross over? What will the new position enable you to continue doing? Writing, interacting with people, solving problems, working with texts, dedication to public service of some sort? (FU is public, right? So is a govt job). Do you have an interview lined up?

          14. Violetta says:

            The deadline to apply is this week, so they’ll probably start contacting people soon. I don’t know if I’ll even get an interview, but I want to prepare for the kind of questions I’ll get if I do.

            I like your idea of shifting to what I WANT to do, as in “I’ve been spending more time dealing with proprietary software than I have dealing with written text, which is what I like doing best.” Then talk about doing legal transcription and legal proofreading, being able to take a few facts and draft a complete memo or announcement for approval (I’ve been trusted enough that some bosses asked me to forge their initials when they went out for drinks with a client–probably shouldn’t bring THAT up!).

          15. SMH says:

            Violetta, They will probably be happy to get an application from someone who can write. A lot of people are not very good at it, even if they are highly educated! Would you be in an office? Something else to consider. I did this sort of work at law firms back in the day. It paid well. I also enjoyed the office. Not everyone does.

  36. Caroline-is-fine says:

    Can you please give me/us the answer to this one question(?):

    I am repeatedly being hoovered even though I am not contacting the narcissist, what is most likely going on?
    The narcissist has an obsession
    The narcissist wants to destroy me
    The narcissist has to destroy me
    The narcissist has to get me back

    I would appreciate it. I’m not thinking that I’m the exception to any rule, but I will make the argument that this is more of a safety/stalker type issue, so it can be looked at as a freebie answer – for the greater good.

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. Caroline-is-fine says:


      2. Leolita says:

        80 %

    2. Alexissmith2016 says:

      Yup that’s the one which confused me. I put obsession CIF because they don’t always want to destroy or get you back. But now I’m wondering if it’s because they have to get you back even if it’s not for the FR to be reinstated? That said they think they own us until the end anyway so perhaps not?

      Will you be giving us the answers at any stage HG?

      1. HG Tudor says:


      2. Caroline-is-fine says:

        Thank you, sweet Alexis. I tend to think it’s a fuel crisis/the last answer too. With my nex, he has an extensive fuel matrix – but he has certain ideas re: IPPS. I’m pretty sure I’m a former IPPS who has been a “candidate” in his mind, without my knowing…as screwing as that recycling sounds.
        Take care,

        1. Narc noob says:

          CIF, the last answer appeared to be incorrect. I tried after you asked as I had already pegged the first as my correct answer(not that I have doubled checked that though).

          1. Caroline-is-fine says:

            Narc Noob,
            How kind of you to tell me that…well, shoot…I don’t much like the rest of those answers! I guess my next guess is like Alexis’s – obsessed. Let’s just keep it right there, shall we…obsessed – but none of that destructive-like talk.
            🤧< that's a Kleenex, but imagine it as a blanket over my head.

          2. Caroline-is-fine says:

            Narc noob,
            Thank you for your tip💚…and the answer is (drum roll)…he’s obsessed! Swell. Then again, it wasn’t going to be a lovely answer – and at least it’s not destruction (I’m always looking on the bright side, ha).

        2. Doesn’t sound screwy at all CIF. They’re all screwy which makes us have screwy thinking too haha

          1. Caroline-is-fine says:

            We think screwier & screwier when they screw with us…until we realize – Shazam – they are screwy to the screwiest degree…and then we no longer need to be screwed by their screwiness.

          2. alexissmith2016 says:

            Hahahah CIF you crack me up!

            Let’s screw them all!!

        3. Narc noob says:


          See HGs comment under the article CIF.

    3. Leolita says:

      The narc has an obsession.

  37. Kim e says:

    75. Feeling pretty good about it. Will try again

  38. Narc noob says:

    HG, do you suggest NC with any N, always?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      That should always be the ultimate aim subject to the rules of legitimate exceptions and de minimis.

  39. E. B. says:

    65% on both.
    Can anyone let me know which Bulletins or items include information about the following, please?
    -Hoover Carriers/Conduits
    -Direct/Indirect physical hoovers

    I have the book Black Hole. This knowledge is not there.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      How To Stop the Hoovers

      1. E. B. says:

        Thank you, HG.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome.

  40. alexissmith2016 says:

    75! one question a bit confusing and I couldn’t recall which sphere was second or third and too lazy to check back

    1. Sweetest Perfection says:

      Hahaha Alexissmith I thought the same!

  41. Presque Vu says:

    I’ve done it 3 or 4 times now getting between 60 and 65. Some of these are trick questions I’m telling you 😆

    1. HG Tudor says:


  42. Leigh Anne says:

    65! More work to do!

  43. MB says:

    I got a 65 although I felt very confident when I submitted. When I was in school, you had to get a 70 to even pass and that was a terrible score. (Read, I flunked another HG quiz)

    I was very disappointed when the school system here recently moved to a 10 point grading scale. If the students can’t pass, just lower the bar.

    HG certainly isn’t going to fall for that. His tests are hard! It’s frustrating that I know the material well and can’t get a passing score. I’ve done much better many times testing on material I’ve not studied nearly as much.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      “Because I am hard, you will not like me, but the more you hate me, the more you will learn. I am hard but I am fair.”

      As Gunnery Sergeant Hartman once explained.

      1. WhoCares says:

        If only that helped out home schooling parents at this time!

      2. MB says:

        I don’t dislike you and I certainly don’t hate you, HG. I am expressing my opinion that your quiz results are not commensurate with the quality of the education provided here.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Most kind MB.

          I am not troubled by the scores that people obtain, what has to be remember is I am THE expert and you are all here to learn. You should strive for excellence to achieve freedom but you do not need to be an expert, that is my role.

        2. NarcAngel says:


          Sure, it’s good to be knowledgable and have a test confirm that, but the real and most important result is that you are still No Contact. It’s an aggregate of what you’ve learned that is the real test and there you score 100%.

          1. MB says:

            Thank you NA. I am doing very well on my no contact. It was a year on Feb 19. I’ve been tested on that recently too and I definitely passed…this time. As ever, the enemy within tried to trip me up. Knowing what was going on kept me from making a rookie mistake and that’s what really matters.

          2. WhoCares says:


            Wow- it was a year on February 19?
            Time DOES fly.
            Good for you on your NC💜

          3. MB says:

            Thank you WC, time sure does fly, but in a sense it seems like the year of NC has been longer than the 6+ years I was ensnared. Life has a way of moving at “narcspeed”!

          4. WhoCares says:

            Wow – and I didn’t know that it was 6 yr. ensnarement MB – bravo!

            “Life has a way of moving at ‘narcspeed’!” I hear you!!

          5. Sweetest Perfection says:

            MB, congrats!

          6. FYC says:

            MB, Congrats on your NC anniversary!

          7. MB says:

            Thank you FYC!

          8. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Absolutely NA. Regardless of the scores I always remind myself that as long as you are NC you are doing the right thing,always.

    2. Violetta says:

      Also 65. Hey, I only got 50% last time!

    3. Narc noob says:

      Ha ha MB, me too. I thought I did better then I did.

      How are you doing with isolating? Hope all is well.

      1. MB says:

        NN, I am staying home and working from home. For an extrovert, it is a bit difficult. I miss interacting with my colleagues. I went out yesterday for groceries and supplies. I was wary, but it had to be done. I nearly broke down in the store because of the way people treat each other now. They don’t even look at each other and certainly don’t speak. I don’t want to live in a world like this. It’s horrible.

        How are you faring Narc Noob?

        1. Narc noob says:

          MB, ohh I knew there was a reason I liked you, ha ha, the bubbly extrovert. I would class myself more an introvert (but a loud one). 😆

          Your outing to the shops sounds terrible, I am sorry you felt such disconnect. Sounds as if people might be tiring of the added pressure to restrict themselves.

          We are faring ok, thank you. The kids have a good 10acres to run about on, plus we havent entered the final stage, lockdown just yet.

          Keep well. Hope your next outing is better.

    4. lisk says:


      Consider these as Pop Quizzes and that you were unprepared because HG gave no warning.

      Perhaps the ultimate lesson in this is: You must ALWAYS be best-prepared for the Narcs if you want to “pass” in life.

      In other words, everyone should ALWAYS expect The Spanish Inquisition.

      1. MB says:

        Ha ha Lisk! “The Spanish Inquisition”

        1. Violetta says:

          Our three weapons are Logical Thinking, Assistance Packages, Consults, Empath Detect— FOUR weapons—
          Amongst our weapons are such diverse elements as Narc Detectors and a ruthless rejection of all hoovers—

          I’ll come in again.

  44. lisk says:


    (Thanks to Lorelei logically influencing the change in grade scale.)

    1. Sweetest Perfection says:

      Actually, he is not demoralizing people, quite the contrary! I felt better though in real life a 75 is BS, I need a 93 at least!!

      1. lisk says:


        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          Lisk I said that because in her comment about the grading system Lorelei joked that she likes to be demoralized rather than incentivized for learning.

  45. Narc noob says:

    75, better than last one, and I do have a consult about NCR coming up. Might do it again then.

    1. lisk says:

      That’s awesome. The more prepared for the consult, the more you can get out of it.

      1. Narc noob says:

        Thanks Lisk. I was unprepared for the last 2 consults, hopefully this time I will get more out of it!

        Had a laugh at your comment above, the score change being influenced by Lorelei 🤗

        1. lisk says:

          Well, she campaigned for it in a logical, convincing (and not whiney) way, so deserves credit!

  46. autiempath says:

    My score is 65 on this quiz.

    1. Stella SHELF Unmaskers says:

      Mine too

  47. MB says:

    Cement shoes? I may throw MYSELF off a bridge after taking this quiz. WTF?!?

  48. BonnieLou says:

    It would be good to see my results, see where I went wrong and to learn from my incorrect answers.
    Thanks HG for keeping us vigilent during lock down

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

      I am not going to make it that easy, you need to re-evaluate and keep trying.

  49. Renarde says:


    Well its better than my last result.

    Loving these quizzes HG!

  50. WhoCares says:

    A pass at least.

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