The War Zone



There is a stretch of land. You know this stretch of land. You have seen this stretch of land many times. You are looking at it now. It is on the side of a hill; the angle is steep meaning that each step you take as you push forward requires considerable effort as the unceasing force of gravity tries to pull you back down the hill. This stretch of land is territory which is churned up mud, thick and cloying mud which sucks at you, intent on grinding your advance to a halt. You know you need to get across this stretch of land however and you summon up your strength, gird your loins and set off.

The wire set across this stretch of land snags at your clothing, the barbed comments set along this coiled and bundled piece of wire rip into your clothing and you wince as one pierces your skin. You try to lift your leg over this wire as you feel your standing foot sinking into the mud. You hear the rat-a-tat-tat of the vicious volley of bilious bullets which are being shot in your direction. The malice machine gun spewing forth lies and insults which pepper the ground around you, whistling past your head and spraying all around in a scattergun approach. You are used to this but it does not make it any easier because you know this machine gun seems to have a limitless supply of those bullets. In order to avoid being hit you hurl yourself forward, feeling another barb from the wire scratch you through your clothing as you hit the ground with a hard slap. The wind is knocked from your lungs as you are sprawled in the mud, the machine gun still spewing forth its angry accusations. You hear the whistle of some incoming ordnance, perhaps one of those conversational hand-grenades that we love to lob at you from different angles. You cannot see it but you know that it is coming and you clamp your tin hat down on your head, hoping it misses as you try to sink into the mud to evade injury. There is a boom to your right and you brace yourself but the savage shrapnel of untruths misses you this time. You scramble up, cold and damp from the mud that now clings to you, eyes darting left and right in the fashion to which you have become accustomed. Your senses are in overdrive as your hypervigilance increases. You don’t know how long you can keep this up as you look out for a sniper on the ridge who might pick you off with a well-placed shot from his rifle of random repercussions. Your ears strain listening for the sound of another hateful hand-grenade or the caustic chatter of the malevolent machine gun. There is a roaring in your ears. Is it the sound of the blood racing around your body, driven by your thundering heart or is it the bellow of your aggressor? It has become so difficult to discern these days.

You race forward adopting your customary zig zag in order to avoid the attempts to cut you down. You charge, head down, legs pounding the mud, each step seeming to take longer and longer as you feel you are moving in slow motion. The air is alive with the smell of cordite, venom and vitriol. There is a billowing sound off to your right and instinctively you hurl yourself to the ground again, smashing into the mud as you feel the heat overhead as a flaming cloud of fury burns, churning and billowing from the flamethrower wielded by your aggressor. The air is super-heated and you can feel the heat across your neck and back as stay down. You cannot remain here for long though as you know you will be a sitting target for the mortar which will rain down its brutal bombs upon you. You start to crawl, the heat still gripping the air, the bullets pinging and whizzing past you, plopping into the mud as you crawl, breath ragged, lungs burning. You haven’t noticed how much you are shaking since you are too engaged seeking to avoid the volleys being hurled towards you.

The heat has gone and you scramble to your feet as you hear the ack-ack-ack of a larger weapon discharging its abusive ammunition towards you. You realise that there are three of these pieces of onerous ordnance as the enemy is triangulating you in an attempt to bring you down. You head to the left and back to the right as you wonder where your allies are, where have they gone? You can dimly remember that there were others once upon a time who supported you and helped you up this slope, encouraging you and urging you on but their voices have gone. One by one the enemy has picked them off leaving you isolated and alone.

This slope that now threatens to halt you advance was once a beautiful hillside adorned with verdant grass which swayed in the warm, gentle breeze. Flowers festooned it beneath a blazing golden sun as you ran down the slope each day with ease and in such a care-free manner. Your recollection of that time vanishes when you hear the rumbling noise and see the barrel of a tank coming into view. You know what is coming from this terror tank, a salvo of scathing shells, designed to send you flying through the air, dizzy and disorientated. The barrel is swinging around as your tormentor takes aim and with considerable effort you continue your advance. It feels like you are running through hell. The noise, the sudden explosions of furious fire and blinding light against the grim grey sky, the booms, the thuds, the sharp ping of bullets, the whump of the negative energy from bombs, shells and grenades being absorbed by the mud. You are under attack from all sides as you pelt forward and hurdle another set of barbed comments, avoiding being caught on them. You land and see ahead the ridge which signifies the end of this stretch of land. The end of the slope. You just need to reach there and you will be shielded from this assault, out of range and able surely then to rest and muster your strength. You notice for the first time that your teeth are chattering through fear, almost mimicking the chatter of the machine gun nests which are blazing their poison-tipped bullets towards you. The earth groans in protest as a line of bullets slaps into the earth and you take this as your cue to go forward again. You hear the throb of aircraft engine as a pain plane draws near ready to drop some incendiary device on you to have you burn or a fearsome bomb to blast you into smithereens with the force of its vitriol. Your breath is ragged and you can feel your legs shaking, the toll of this advance now exacting itself on your body which has endured so much. Five more steps and then surely you will have reached safety. The roar of battle reaches a crescendo, malicious metal rending the air apart as the aircraft draws closer, the tank twists, the barrel trying to keep pace with you. Four steps. The bullets whizz and another hand grenade explodes behind you. Three steps. There is the whine of a falling bomb which supersedes all the other clamour of battle. Two steps. Your heart is going to explode. One step. Everything is now being launched against you to stop you getting to the ridge. A massive explosion erupts behind you, furious and fearsome as you are hurled through the air, over the ridge and mud-smeared, ragged, bleeding and battered you crash to the ground and roll over, once, twice and a third time.

The world eventually stops wheeling about you. The spinning recedes and the frenzied sounds of battle have become muffled and distant. You hear your own heart still pounding, the sound of your heavy breathing as you mentally check yourself and realise you are intact. Just.

You open your eyes and turn to see where it is you have arrived and that is providing you with some kind of respite. You are in a ditch or perhaps a trench and you can see nothing but two earthen walls either side of you providing you with protection. You have made it. You got through the war zone. You crossed that stretch of land and succeeded. Elation soars through you as you tentatively sit up. Over the ridge to your right is where you have just come from, but what lies to the left. Carefully you peek over the edge of the trench.

There is a slope ahead of you. A stretch of land. You know this stretch of land. You know it well. It is churned mud with machine gun nests lining the sides of the slope as this steep section of land leads up to a ridge.

Yes, you know this stretch of land.

85 thoughts on “The War Zone

  1. Sweetest Perfection says:

    MP, I totally agree with what you’re explaining here. It’s been studied under the term of “intersectionality” and it is essential to understand different forms of social oppression. In fact, I don’t understand my work without applying that concept. Thanks for shedding light on it.

    1. MommyPino says:

      Hi SP! I haven’t been notified of comments from this thread so I didn’t see it until now.

      Thank you, I have not heard of the term ‘intersectionality’ but it sounds like something interesting to me as it sounds related to my personal experiences. I will read up on that. It is something that has always confused me with human nature. I have always wondered how someone who experienced oppression doesn’t always empathize regarding oppression towards another group. And people seem blinded as well about their roles in the oppression of another group, and I have noticed this even with people who are empathic normals. Human nature is so complicated.

  2. lickemtomorrow says:

    I have a couple of thoughts to add around the ongoing discussion here.

    When Kate asked her question, I didn’t allow myself to be provoked. I said it was odd. That way I am acknowledging the comment without being drawn in. Inflammatory remarks are a great way to generate an emotional response. Having spent a number of years on an American Civil War website, it’s a skill I’ve honed well. And one I need to hone better on the personal front.

    I don’t live in the U.S. and am not involved with any of the ongoing issues. It saddens me to see people continue to profile others. That one cuts across the board and begets all kind of ignorance.

    As to the current situation, I have friends in the U.S. and am incredibly concerned for their situation.

    1. Getting There says:

      Hello, Lickemyomorrow.

      I have to admit that I am writing this with high emotional thinking.

      I understand not wanting to come out in a full challenge of a comment. A calm approach allows for logic to prevail. It allows for listening and others to be heard. Your initial question to Kate gave for that opportunity. What I saw on this page bothers me a lot and that is why my emotional thinking is high. In the thinking part of my head I can believe that with HG so busy that there are more comments on this page in regards to Kate’s comment and they are waiting to be moderated. In my emotional thinking, I wonder. I have seen this blog blow up to over 1000 comments in a short time due to someone calling a regular commenter a “narcissist.” Until Kate responds, I assume that her comment of a joke means she made a racist joke and there were only a few comments in response. Why? I understand that this blog isn’t about racism, but this blog is about people holding others down for power and control. Most on here are empaths and as empaths we shouldn’t accept, and as HG has pointed out silence is acceptance, further pain for others, further keeping people apart or down. It’s a “joke” supposedly, but what do jokes perpetuate? I don’t mean the knock knock kind, I mean when it is at the expense of another. My narcissists told jokes at my expense. Many I found funny, but others I did not. When others stood by silently when it was obvious it wasn’t funny, but not obvious that it hurt, it made me think thoughts about others that were not true.
      Yes the protests are mostly occurring in America but racism isn’t in America alone. There is racism all over. While others in other countries are watching the news about America, are they taking this opportunity to look internal and listen to those who feel the same fear and anger? Are others countries pointing to America as an example of meanness while quietly accepting that others in their own country quietly live with fear and anger at unjust treatment because of their race, religion, etc? There may be countries that don’t have the murders by the hands of some police, but I have seen the news of other countries of people of groups being chased or having threats of death. This is an opportunity for the world to halt what actions of hate can be halted. Hate will never leave but it can stop being such a loud voice.

      Personally I am part of a culture that is hated by others. I am fortunate that I have time before I teach my son about what could be levied at him not only in America but Europe, etc. Not everyone has the ability to wait to teach their children about hate and possible consequences of that hate. That’s not fair for those parents! What is happening in America is the time voices are heard and positive change comes worldwide! Sorry I will get off my soap box.

      As for maybe peace of mind for your friends, there are many locations to include the town I live in, where protests remained powerful and peaceful! I hope they remain safe!

      1. lickemtomorrow says:

        Hi Getting There,

        First of all let me acknowledge that emotional thinking is high everywhere right now and I am totally in tune with that. i feel it, too. By way of response and in an effort to untangle this let me tell you what I thought again in relation to Kate’s comment in terms of the sequence of events.

        1/ I had an initial gut reaction to her comment. Probably the same as you and many others.
        2/ I recognized it as an inflammatory remark and effort to draw a response (most likely negative)
        3/ I knew HG was capable of responding to such a comment himself. What I noticed was that HG had not initially reacted to that comment, but followed up in response to another question Kate asked. That is his prerogative on his blog. I had no intention of interfering. There was no need.
        4/ That also goes to the fact the comment wasn’t directed at me but I was curious as to why Kate had said that. What causes someone to think that it is OK to comment in such a way? It is up to them to provide the explanation. This, of course, can be quite revealing.

        Ultimately I will defend what I think needs to be defended, but with the experience I have behind me I also understand that not everything warrants a response as it is just meant to draw you in and take you down a rabbit hole which is not the intention of a particular thread, or in this case post. It is meant to disrupt or derail and not intended to add anything to the conversation. This is how I read Kate’s comment. On the Civil War forum we called certain threads ‘monkey howlers’ because the brought out all the usual candidates whose sole purpose was to derail a thread. I’m sure they loved the ‘fuel’ that flowed from their disruptions. Most people couldn’t see it for what if was and engaged immediately, as if still in battle.

        I was a forum host. I needed to have the capacity to hold all these various opinions and ensure discussions were not derailed. People would get drawn in and I would have to draw them back. I found it possible to acknowledge what others said for the most part and in extreme cases learn to ignore them because I would only be feeding them, and I had no intention of doing that. If I had, I would be serving their purpose. I also dressed in battle gear as necessary.

        So, I have the ability to stand back and temporarily suspend my emotional thinking or gut reaction. As I said, I’m still working on that on a personal level.

        This scenario is very different to the one you describe on a personal basis. I would also feel the need to respond in that situation if I felt the other person was somehow defenseless. Take my word for it, I’ve paid a very high price indeed for taking a stand on behalf of others in the past and yet have never shied away from doing so. I have also been the recipient of the barbed comments/actions of my mother all my life and had to endure that with no one ever taking a stand for me. So, I’ve been on both sides of that equation.

        When it comes to the worldview on current issues, I hold my own counsel. There are many factors that feed into that. HG wrote a wonderful piece on that (America – You Are Being Conned) and I will defer to him. He has a view and an insight which most other people won’t/don’t have.

        I appreciate your response to my thoughts, and no doubt HG is holding some of them back. That is up to him. I’m glad that he had given you an opportunity to air your views and for me to respond.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Very well articulated. You are correct that I enabled GT to express her views and for you to do also and that I allowed the original comment by way of demonstration. I sometimes prefer for commenters to be able to articulate their views for the purposes of having a meaningful discussion without comment or intervention by me. I do this because for so long, many of you have not been able to express your views, it is important to enable you all to work things out for yourselves at certain times and also because of the demands on my time. I am not able to respond to everything and not to the depth that I would often like to. Just because I have not expressed a view, does not mean that I do not have one. Just because I am silent does not mean that I condone a view that has been expressed. That should be remembered.

          I think that it is important for people to be able to offer their contrary view when they read something they disagree with or find offensive and iron things out between themselves, so long as it is done constructively within the rules and that when something has been concluded for a variety of cogent reasons and I confirm that is an end to the matter that readers respect and accept that and do not seek to prolong or resurrect such matters. There is a balance to be struck between allowing the advancement of views (which will include some which are unsavoury) in order to demonstrate certain dynamics, to allow hitherto silenced individuals to exercise a right of reply AND avoiding noise pollution, derailed threads, unnecessarily prolonged spats and all out ad hominem warfare. There will invariably be one or two people who disagree with how the balance has been struck, but most do agree and ultimately this is my house and therefore I am the judge.

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            Thank you, HG, for your compliment and your very lengthy response. It is much appreciated.

            It’s kind of ironic this whole theme is playing out on a thread entitled “The War Zone”, but also entirely appropriate, too.

            I think you have struck a marvellous balance in terms of allowing people to have their say while at the same time making the decisions around when a conversation/discussion needs to come to an end.

            I accept this is your house and you have the final word. In fact, I came across your insights around the final word in ‘Love and Loathing’ today. That was also very well articulated as are all the thoughts you express. I might not like them all, but I hear them and absorb them accordingly.

            Thank you for the added insight into how you oversee your blog. It can be an important reminder at times. We had a number of moderators on the other site (Civil War) who took out the worst offenders as needed, plus multiple forum hosts. You are doing this on your own and I honestly don’t know how you keep up, but I am glad that you do.

            As someone who was never enabled to have a voice as a child, I completely concur with your thoughts around giving the voiceless a voice. It is so important, and it is also what I aimed to do in my role, too. People feel heard and understood, even if you don’t agree. And you can point that out, too. Communication is everything.

            Sorry to add another lengthy comment, but just want to show my appreciation. And defending others is important. I’ve always thought so.

            Just as an addendum, I want to also say I appreciate Getting There for offering me some peace of mind around my friends in the U.S. Please stay safe everyone. Please.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Not at all and thank you.

        2. Getting There says:

          Thank you, Lickemtomorrow, for your response and the sharing of your thoughts! Those are good points and a good way to be!!

          I’m sorry if I made you feel you needed to justify your response to Kate! That wasn’t my intent but I can see how I wrote in a way that could have.

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            Hey, Getting There, I was happy to share my thoughts on this one. It sometimes helps us to untangle the processes of our own thinking and I accept the points you made without issue. I was glad you prompted me to think about it and no need for apologies. I enjoy both hearing others thoughts and sharing my own. Many times there is no right nor wrong. It’s just different perspectives. Once again, the ability to hold those becomes all important at times to allow people to have their say, air their views and ultimately come to their own conclusions. It’s amazing how opening things up in this way often allows for new perspectives to take shape.

            And I really do appreciate your reassurance again over the current situation. It’s quite daunting to watch from a distance knowing there is nothing you can do. I was in the States exactly two years ago this month. I can’t tell you how much of a pleasure that trip was and how much I found to appreciate. I’ve said ever since I would return in a heartbeat and every time of think of that journey it brings a smile to my face. In fact, the trip I was planning in April/May, which I’ve mentioned here,was a return trip to the U.S. Unfortunately the C-virus put paid to those plans. Now we have this. My heart is definitely with you all, and once again – please stay safe <3

          2. Getting There says:

            Hello Lickemtomorrow.

            Thank you so much for your kind words!! I agree that when people can talk out they can learn from each other! I am usually about learning from others. Unfortunately I let my emotions be my voice on this one.

            I’m glad you enjoyed your trip here and hope that you can come back soon. I love traveling to other countries and learning about the cultures in each. I learned a long time ago that the news doesn’t help in the impression of anything. While there were places of violence during protests, most places had peaceful protests. I was excited to see that all 50 states had protests. That gives me hope in what changes will occur; maybe more people will talk and listen like you described!

      2. Violetta says:

        I can speak only for myself, but I had seen a sample of Kate’s opinions on the following thread:

        I will occasionally question the accuracy of her statements, but I’m not going to waste a lot of time or effort challenging her worldview.

        When I argue with people, it’s generally because I value their opinions and wish we could be on the same side.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Sensible observation.

        2. Getting There says:

          Thank you for sharing, Violetta!

          That’s a smart way to be!

          1. Violetta says:


            I can’t always stick to it, tbh, but it helps if I remember that a productive argument means finding common ground.

            There are times when I have no desire to find common ground.

          2. Getting There says:

            Violetta, thank you in all seriousness! I owe everyone an apology for my initial comment! I’m sorry! It was wrong of me to take my frustrations of the situations out on anyone here!

            I’m usually very good with arguments and comments with which I don’t agree when it comes to politics or current events. Like what you said, it is not always easy. In this situation, I let my emotions take full control and that was wrong.

            I admit that I have at times brushed off racist or sexist jokes and just looked at the person. I think in hearing my friends as they share their heartbreak and share more of their experiences, and watching all the videos people are sharing, I just need to find a way to do what I can with logical thinking but do something good to help.

            I am sorry to all!! I’m also sorry, HG, for bringing up the past you have tried to move on from!

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Your apology whilst appreciated is unnecessary.

        3. blackcoffee30 says:

          Holy Fuck. Thanks for linking that. Wow. No sense in arguing at all.

          1. Violetta says:


            Yep. There’s a pattern.

      3. Mommypino says:

        Hello Getting There,

        I haven’t seen the comments on this thread until now. I agree with Violetta about Kate. I have seen her behavior before and I think it may have been last year or early this year. She was posting anti-Israel, anti-Jewish and even anti-Trump comments. I tried to challenge her POV about Israel but she didn’t respond to me and she just went on more monologues. So since then I have just been ignoring her posts. She occasionally comes here to rant about stuff like that and many other commenters have also challenged her but it has been unproductive as well.

        You brought up a lot of important points about racism and prejudice all over the world. You are totally correct that it is all over the world. I think it was Love who pointed out the irony that China and Iran recently criticized the US on racism. It does require a lot of work and education both internal and external. I had a lot of classmates who constantly made jokes about my fair skin and hair color and some even made songs about my hair color the same as rust. I took it in stride and some of them were my friends as well. Then after we all graduated from school many of them worked in other countries and have experienced prejudice. I had friends who worked as nurses in Arab countries where women were not allowed to have education but these women have been treating them like they were stupid and lower class even though my friends are actually much more educated and smarter than them. I totally agree with you and prejudice comes in many forms, not just against someone’s race but also religion, culture, gender etc. It’s definitely important to discuss these things with our kids at some point so they are indeed ready on how to deal with these things with kindness and understanding.

      4. Sweetest Perfection says:

        Getting There, I’m with you ❤️

        1. Getting There says:

          ❤ Sweetest Perfection. I like your new name symbol!

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:


          2. fox says:

            Yes, I noticed it too! With ya, SP!

      5. MommyPino says:

        Hello Getting There,

        I just want to add that the reason I gave those examples about my friends is because it seems like different groups of people all over the world find ways to not like another group or assert superiority over the other group. The Arab women who my friends said were mean and discriminatory to them were also facing discrimination in their own country because of their gender. Even in countries that are not that diverse like in India, people are still heavily discriminated based on their genders and the caste system. It’s like any group of people will always find another group on this planet who will hate them as a group. It is sad but we can at least make a difference with our kids. You raised a great point about discussing things like that with kids. I have not been that proactive about it but I am inspired to find more ways to discuss these things with them. 💕

        1. Getting There says:

          Thank you, Mommypino! I wish I could say I was surprised by what you shared of your friends but sadly this world is full of hate and oppression of others. I liked watching the sharing of the protests worldwide. At the same time I hope that people saying “listen and learn from each other” will expand worldwide also.

          I have decided to use what chances I have to remind my son of how we are all equal and cannot discount another person’s experience and feelings. I am not hiding some of what I am listening to from him which is about each race listening and learning, and I will answer questions but he hasn’t asked any yet.

          I thank Violetta and you for sharing what Kate has said before! I don’t follow all comments so I missed her comments from before.

          1. Violetta says:

            Getting There:

            Some people want a reaction; in fact, you’ll notice they demand one from HG if they think he hasn’t responded fast enough.

            There are times when letting the crickets chirp may the best comment of all. Arguing is still an entry into the conversation.

          2. Getting There says:

            I know you are right! I just need that logic to fully ingrain right now. I’m at a not good point in being as logical right now, but I do know you are right. Thank you!!

            I’m really thankful you shared what you did. I do need to remember that sometimes a comment seeking attention is just that and not deeper.

          3. MommyPino says:

            Hello Getting There, that is wonderful that you are having these discussions with you son. I am thinking of ways I can introduce this subject to my kids. Maybe I can read some books to them regarding stories about black or other POC’s struggles and ask them what they think and how they would feel if it was them.

      6. Sweetest Perfection says:

        GT, I love the symbol too. I am sure you know, as I do too, that it means that black lives matter. It doesn’t have any adverb that modifies it; it doesn’t say “only black lives matter.” It’s just an affirmative statement. If opposed to that statement, then you are choosing the negative which is “black lives don’t matter.” And that’s definitely the message this country -and many others- have perpetually been sending away. The symbol stands for “of course all lives matter, but in case you forget, blacks are lives too, and they do matter, but you are killing them with impunity and nobody’s doing shit.” Like you, I have a very high ET these days and I suffer enormously. So don’t get too hard on yourself. Don’t apologize for demanding what is right. Look up, and be proud of yourself. ❤️

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          I have size 6 /36 in Europe for shoes, for what it’s worth (?).

        2. Getting There says:

          Hello, Sweetest Perfection!

          Yes and that is a very important statement! When people started to say “Black Lives Matter” years ago I was one of those confused ones and as a pro-life person responded with the “All Lives Matter” not meaning to downplay any feelings but because it seemed obvious to me that all lives matter. It took me listening to my African American friends to understand that how you explained it is exactly what it means and now I say Black Lives Matter. My friend posted a video of a comedian who made a joke about how African Americans have to negotiate just to matter by having that statement downplayed. He joked that it isn’t asking for equality but just to matter and yet that is negated. That truth is just sad! I watched a video where the gentleman from Star Wars, sorry I can’t think of his name, gave a speech at a protest in the UK. The anguish in his voice and tears is so similar to what I hear from my friends and I wonder how people can listen and see and still say that people are making up that there isn’t equality. A person on Instagram responded to a comment I said and told me that systemic racism no longer exists. When I asked what he attributes the experiences people are sharing to then, he stayed quiet.

          Thank you for the great supportive words! We stand together in fighting for Black Lives Matter!

          LOL I liked your shoe comment. I have size 7 – 7.5 US so I’m still waiting to know what that means.

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Dear GT: “It took me listening to my African American friends to understand.” Wise words. The problem is when people constantly refuse to listen, relying on the idea that if it doesn’t affect them, it doesn’t exist. It’s very similar to trying to explain someone is a narcissist to people that were never targeted by that person: “he’s always been nice to me” or “I’ve never had any problem with him.” Same here: “I’m not a racist” or “people are too easily offended” or “they just like being the victim.” Intelligent people listen, and they don’t have fear of repairing their mistakes.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Well stated.

          3. mommypino says:

            Hi SP, I understand what you are saying but I also see the other side. I am personally very conflicted about this issue. I agree that many do not care because it doesn’t affect them and therefore it doesn’t exist. I have seen dismissive comments like that and it does frustrate me as well. But there are also many people that are conflicted like me. We actually care even if it doesn’t affect us because otherwise why would we have conflicting feelings instead of just being decisively against or for something? We deeply care about the issues that black people face especially when an innocent black person gets murdered. We want the lives of black people to improve and be raised out of poverty as well. But some of the vitriol and actions that we see from many human rights activists also stir up emotions from us that cause us to put up an armor to protect ourselves. The call to abolish law enforcement and the hateful vitriol against cops inciting violence against any person wearing the uniform has been disconcerting to me as I have a relative who is a police officer. The looting and destruction in the guise of protesting is also disconcerting and how they seem to have been tolerated by some politicians. Most of us here have agreed that the quote “hurt people hurt people” is a pointless platitude and yet I see comments in social media that the riots and violence are just caused by trauma that no white person can ever understand. Again to say that no white person will ever understand discrimination is absolutely false and invalidating to the experiences of people who experienced discrimination who happened to have fair skin. And also, excusing the looting and destruction which cause violence such as the murder of David Doyle who was a black empathic retired cop is troubling to me. It is hard to listen when there is no mutual respect in the discussion. Human instinct when you are being yelled at is to cover your ears.

          4. Sweetest Perfection says:

            MP, the argumentation on violence ends for me when you realize that 1) protests are about back people being violently attacked and killed by some police officers 2) peaceful protesters are being met with more police violence 3) many looters are indeed white opportunists 4) the president has responded to the protests by threading with displaying the army 5) most of the white people that use MLK as a referent of what a peaceful protest should look like forget that MLK was, as a matter of fact, shot in the head by a white person, as other black leaders were consecutively murdered by white people, too. Blaming black people of being violent and behaving like savages or as I have heard many say, like animals (there was an idiot who said that the police should throw bananas to distract them) is a reaction deeply rooted in a colonialist mentality that sees black as a synonym of primitivism and wilderness. Education is key to have a critical perspective. The gaslighting idea of blaming violence by blacks to justify violence by whites is turning cause-effect reactions upside down to somebody’s own convenience.

          5. mommypino says:

            But it shouldn’t be lost. I don’t believe that violence against innocent people is ever excusable. What did David Dorn do to deserve getting killed? He was a black retired cop that was loved by everyone who knew him especially his son who have described the grief that he experienced. The descriptions of him sounded like he was an empath cop which proves that the assertion that there are no good cops. I’m not even going to use my cousin’s husband as an example of a good person cop because obviously I have a lot of bias there.

            1. The protest being about the violence of cops against blacks in my opinion is not a reason to also have violence against people who are innocent. Although I have heard that there are no innocent cops, I disagree with that as I look at people as individuals and not as a collective.

            2. There are instances of that but it is not the case in all of the protests. There have been protests that are destructive and I actually wish that more police force have been used to stop it.

            3. I have seen many looters who are white but I have seen many blacks as well. I believe that both of them are opportunists or narcissists who enjoy causing damage and doesn’t care about Floyd or other blacks. I have seen a video of a black man crying and yelling to the black looters asking them, “Why burn my store? You are angry at the white man but why burn my store? Why take my computer? I was just like you can’t you understand? I was from the ghetto too but I tried to make it.” He was talking to black kids who were destroying stuff.

            4. I will agree that even though I am a Trump supporter and I will still vote for him over Biden, this is the time when I wish he has more cognitive empathy and said something that helped unify. It is hard for his though too as anything he says are scrutinized in a negative light. But still, I wish that there was more police force against the looters and burners and thief’s of ATM machines regardless of their race. And I wish the peaceful protesters were and are allowed to march peacefully. I liked an image that I saw where the cops knelt with the protesters.

            5. I think that the violence in the looting and violence in assassination of MLK are both horrible and should be stopped or punished. Gaslighting of any violence is both wrong. Nobody should blame violence to justify another violence. It is not because of convenience but because it is never right to lash out on an innocent person because of something committed by another.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Are you a Trump supporter? You’ve never mentioned it.

          7. mommypino says:

            I know flash news right? Just in case someone still doesn’t know. 😜

          8. mommypino says:

            And that is probably why some people say All Lives Matter because a cop’s life should matter too. David Dorn’s life mattered too.

          9. Sweetest Perfection says:

            PS: I don’t ever say you can’t understand discrimination if you’re not black. I do indeed believe you can’t understand the kind of discrimination a black person suffers if you are not black. If you add gender like bring a black woman on top of that, then you have intersectional layers of oppression.

          10. mommypino says:

            I agree, there are many unique ways someone can get discriminated. A biracial child in my home country gets picked constantly because of appearance and being part foreigner and unlike the blacks here they do not have any biracial community that they belong to. Total isolation in the midst of experiencing all kinds of racist behaviors. Many women from Muslim countries are not allowed to go to school and are even mutilated and killed if they were raped. Each kind of oppression is difficult and it is impossible to judge which group experienced the most oppression.

          11. HG Tudor says:

            I am fairly certain Simon Cowell would give it a go.

          12. mommypino says:

            HG I bet you’re right 😝. Simon Cowell can judge anything lol. Thanks for the laugh, I got a little too emotional on that post. Just a little too carried away. 🙃

          13. HG Tudor says:

            Watch out for “Oppression´s Got Talent”

          14. mommypino says:

            HG, seriously though, I think it’s misguided to say that oppression or privilege is based on the color of your skin. Black Americans are not the most oppressed people in the world. They have many privileges too.

          15. Sweetest Perfection says:

            MP, I want to clarify I am not thinking of you when I talk about this. I know you care and the fact you have conflicting feelings is completely normal and it’s an evidence you do care. I am referring to people who blatantly dismiss the main problem which you definitely acknowledged so that’s not you. I do agree with not using violence. I have said many times I hate violence. I don’t support it. And I want a peaceful solution. I don’t follow this statement with a “but.” I will follow it with a “by.” A peaceful solution BY all parts involved.

          16. mommypino says:

            Thank you SP. I’m glad that I have read that you don’t support violence. I am feeling really sad about the violence from both sides and I just wish that both would end.

          17. mommypino says:

            *David Dorn. I may have written David Doyle.

          18. fox says:

            Getting There,

            I just wanted to say thank you for sharing and I’m so happy to read that you were able to change your mind on Black Lives Matter. It takes a lot of guts and strength to admit you are viewing something incorrectly and change your perspective, and even more to admit it to others. That is so admirable! I hope you can encourage others to do the same.

            I have been elsewhere trying to get this exact point across, as politely and patiently as I can, because I know at least some people are just misunderstanding. My plea is to just stop and consider how it may be viewed by others, even if the initial intent is well meaning. People usually come around once they can see outside of their own perspective a moment.

            I have also ended up getting into a couple battles with possible mid-rangers over the phrase though. They get offended that there can be a movement in which they cannot see themselves reflected and start bringing up talking points that show their true colors. I am try not to beat my head against those types, I don’t like the waste my time.

            I’d be curious to know more about the role white privilege plays on narcissism because I think some of these people are WAY too entitled.

            And as a side note, I know this has been resolved, but I agree with the others regarding Kate’s ‘joke’. I did notice it the other day and I found it distasteful but possibly bait, so I decided it best not to take it. And I think HG is a grown man who can take care of himself pretty well. Had it been someone else she was talking to I might have said something. I also try not to spend too much time here, but I love peeking in to see how things are going with you all.

          19. Violetta says:


            I don’t share your support of Trump, as you know, but when I saw the DM headline, “Hillary Clinton questions how anyone with a ‘beating heart and a working mind still supports’ Donald Trump as she claims he made race riots and coronavirus pandemic ‘all about him,'” my reaction was, “Hillary, please shut up before Trump gets a 2nd term. Do you realize how many people voted AGAINST you, rather than FOR him?”

            Unfortunately, once the riots burn themselves out, things will go back to what they were, minus some small businesses bringing jobs and products to certain areas. The South Bronx still isn’t back after ’68. Nobody wants to open a business there. Cops will still recruit mostly from blue-collar families, as does the military, and they and the underclass will continue struggling with each other while the oligarchy continues to manipulate both.

            Getting non-blacks into BLM won’t make that much difference. There were plenty of middle class white students in the civil rights and anti-war movements. The cops waded into the crowd with their billy clubs just the same.

            Have a look at Tom Wolfe’s Mau-Mauing the Flak Catchers. After the riots in the ’60s, con artists would stomp into government program offices claiming to be the leader of this or that street gang trying to quell community uprisings and walk off with money that never reached the people it was meant for. At one point, a proto-Woke white college professor enthusiastically reads serial rapist Eldridge Cleaver’s work to a mostly white, middle-class audience, and then one of the few inner city black students in the class starts making fun of all of them:

            you know what? Ghetto people would laugh if they heard what you just read. That book wasn’t written for the ghettos. It was written for the white middle class. They published it and they read it. What is this ‘having previously dabbled in the themes and writings of Rousseau, Thomas Paine, and Voltaire’ that he’s laying down in there? You try coming down in the Fillmore doing some previously dabbling and talking about Albert Camus and James Baldwin. They’d laugh you off the block. That book was written to give a thrill to white women in Palo Alto and Marin County. That book is the best suburban jive I ever heard. I don’t think he even wrote it. Eldridge Cleaver wouldn’t write something like that. I think his wife wrote it …

          20. mommypino says:

            Wow Violetta, Honestly I don’t know as much as you do about this issue. It looks like you know the ins and outs of this not just from a book that you have read but from real life interactions and observations. You know that I didn’t grow up here and I’m trying to make sense of all of this. That is sad if you are right that all of this will not cause that much improvement. New York is now defunding the police and a lot of people actually want to completely abolish the police institution. Many people that become soldiers and cops do come from blue collar families and a lot of them are blacks as well. Two of the cops that were killed since the riots started are black and they both look like good people, one of them was retired.

            Is there anyone who knows how to fix the issues that blacks are facing? Some people say that school and community segregation is the problem and some say the absence of fathers and presence drugs in their community. As a regular citizen I don’t know what I can do.

            This is something that I know many feel is a way of invalidating the struggles and oppression of blacks here but honestly many non blacks also have a lot of struggles and challenges. I saw a fellow Asian post on her Facebook about Asian privilege and how Asians need to own up to our ignorance and help blacks and speak up against racism. She was born and raised here in the US so I don’t think that she only knows how it is to be her but can’t speak up for all Asians. I made a comment praising one commenter who gave an unpopular comment and she invited me to give my POV as a fellow Asian. I said I cannot speak for all Asians because Asians come from various cultures. I can only speak for Filipino immigrants. And I told her the real life challenges of people that I know so I said I don’t believe that we should assign privilege based on skin color because each person has a story and telling a person who has endured hardships and discrimination that she is privileged is a form of invalidating her own experiences. I also said that as a Christian (because she’s a very vocal Protestant) I don’t like the word privilege because there is a guilt attached to it and I believe that Christ has set us free from guilt. I had somebody agreed with me that Americans tend to lump all Asians into one category when actually they come from different countries with very different cultures. And all of a sudden I was restricted from seeing the post. Which is fine although slightly amusing. Several months ago I just met with my Filipino elementary teacher who immigrated here and she couldn’t even crack that much smile. It is hard for me to swallow that she is considered privileged because she’s Asian.

            Just my thoughts and thank you Violetta for the information that you gave me regarding black issues. I am often impressed with how much you know about many stuff.

          21. Getting There says:

            Sweetest Perfection and Fox, I do appreciate the compliments; however, I think the kudos need to go to my friends who allowed themselves to be vulnerable, open, and patient with me. Self reflecting I know how I was when I was describing my relationship experience with narcissists to others. As Sweetest Perfection said, there is commonality in the reaction. After awhile of trying to explain to others and receiving the responses like that, I internally gave up trying to explain. Every once in awhile I will test the water with some individuals again but it is with great hesitation and wall up. That was my reaction on a situation I chose. I can’t imagine the pain and hurt already established based on the color of skin which no one controls. My friends had every right to say “forget it, you won’t understand and I am not sure what your response will be.” They shared their experiences and feelings and left themselves vulnerable in a patient way. It wasn’t a “you versus me” it was “let me tell you about the time that…. Let me tell you how this news makes me feel.” I have a friend who told me she is considered “an angry black woman” and it surprised me that anyone would think that. She can be forthright but so can I. I’m called a “bitch” and she has a title that includes the color of her skin. It’s wrong. All of them sharing has helped me.

            I think empaths want to fix things and help heal, but I wonder if now is an example where some of us can’t change the world but change the world around us. I like, Fox, how you know when you are dealing with a narcissist and know it isn’t worth your energy because you are giving of yourself. My way of commenting has been similar to the spaghetti idea – throw something out there and see what sticks. I don’t think it is working well, so I am reevaluating my approach.

            I have to admit that white privilege is something I am still trying to understand. I used to hear that phrase and would be insulted for my own reasons. It was in recent postings of a couple of videos that helped me understand it more. Then a friend posted a picture of George Floyd on one side and the guy who raped someone and only received 3 months in prison on the other; and the picture was about white privilege. I don’t know anyone who is white that would have received that low of a sentence in the same way. I am back to trying to understand.
            I have seen videos where women, people nickname them “Karen” which I need to still learn about, acting in a way that makes me think how they heck do they think they have the right to act or talk like that. One lady was upset that an EMT taking care of a stabbing victim was blocking her car. Her comments shocked me and were very narcissistic. If that is what is meant by white privilege, I can see the narcissism in it.

            I’m glad you’re back and sharing, Fox!

          22. Violetta says:

            MP and HG:

            I’m going to make a wild guess I am somewhat less miserable here than I would be in a M.E. country.

  3. Anm says:

    There is a strange vibe out there for sure. Im upset about George Floyd, the issues we continue to face in the USA with racism, police corruption and lack of accountability, and male privilege. Our Governor just issued a week of lockdown orders again due to the riots, after lifting the Covid19 orders. People are upset right now in one way or another. Im not trying to give anyone here excuses, but many of us here in the USA are not in the average day to day mindset.

  4. Kate says:

    This world is full of shit people who aren’t worth fighting for.

    They want to burn it down? Fine – they can and will live in the burned-out shell of a home that they have created for their dumbass selves.

    1. Violetta says:

      What if you have a family or you’re a small business owner & the mob burned down your home or looted your business, as they did KB Balla’s?

    2. Kate says:

      shit people come in a variety of colors.

    3. Getting There says:

      Kate, I’m not sure who “they” are that you are referencing. There is a difference in the individuals who are protesting and those who are looting. You may be interested in watching some of the videos being released in who is in that latter category.

      I didn’t know feet size was indicative of race. I have heard a lot of crap in regards to different physical and mental characteristics being attributed to race or religion. Can you please share a scientific link where you can guess race based on perceived feet size?

  5. Kate says:

    HG, are you really a big White man or just PRETENDING to be one?

    1. Kate says:

      IHi HG,

      I sent you a nice long message yesterday and am disappointed to see it is not here. Did you get it?


      1. HG Tudor says:

        I do not know, I have been away and I am working through the moderated posts. You will need to exhibit some patience like everybody else.

    2. lickemtomorrow says:

      What a very odd question.

      1. Kate says:


        I noticed HG’s picture shows dark tan man’s legs with very small feet..

        You are correct, it is an odd question, though. Your name has me raising an eyebrow, too. Haha

        1. HG Tudor says:

          If you think I have very small feet, you need to go to Specsavers.

          1. Kate says:

            It looks like a photo that was taken at an angle that produced that distorted view – just having a little fun, didn’t mean to offend.

        2. Violetta says:

          It’s perspective. Presumably he took the picture himself and everything is foreshortened.

          1. blackcoffee30 says:

            Nope. Tiny feet. 🤣

        3. lickemtomorrow says:

          Well, thank you for your answer, Kate 🙂 I knew there had to be an explanation.

          As to my name, let me tell you a little story …

          At the end of the first bloody day of the battle of Shiloh during the American Civil War, General William Tecumseh Sherman met up with General Ulysses S. Grant and said to him: “We’ve had the devil’s own day, haven’t we, Grant?” Ulysses S. Grant replied: “Yeah. Lick ’em tomorrow, though.”

          I’ve had the ‘devil’s own day’ recently. And I have an avid interest in the American Civil War.

          So, now you know the story. And you may also want to lower your eyebrow 😉

          1. Kate says:

            Thank you for the explanation! I like history, too, and think that we don’t learn nearly enough of it in the American public school system, which needs a lot of changes (in my opinion).

          2. Kate says:


            Were you one of the participants in one of the marches / protests in one of America’s cities in response to George Floyd’s death? It sounds as though you are eluding to this.

            I have never been a participant in one of these and strive to understand what is going on when I see looting, burning and destruction. Marching is something that I can understand, but personally would not do it (too many people for me).

    3. Anm says:

      Kate what kind of a question is that? What are you solving for with asking about his ethnicity?

      1. Kate says:

        I am no racist, if you are throwing that accusation at me.

        You don’t know me.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No, but your comments provide quite the window into your behaviour allowing one to draw a reasonable approximation of what you are.

        2. PAMELA says:

          He’s caucasian, but guess what, he doesn’t have to be black to have the right to make content. Or have a voice.

          Hg didn’t kill George Floyd or Ahmaud Arbery.

          Both murders were wrong and they are being prosecuted.

          Let’s stay away from inflammatory dialogue where it isnt needed.

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Everybody has a voice, we don’t give anyone a voice. But we can listen. Other than that, I’m happy to read this comment from you, Pamela. I agree with you.

  6. Kate says:


    Another masterpiece!

    After reading this last night, I have been thinking about it because it is so haunting, exhausting and made me emotional, too. It hit a chord with me.

    When you write like this, do you set aside time to write, or do you write when something gives you the urge to do so?

    How long did it take you to write this? Did you write it all at once or re-work it?

    I hope you don’t mind answering my questions!

    Thank you!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you.

      1. I usually set aside time to write working on concepts and ideas and thoughts which have already been noted.
      2. It took me about an hour if I recall correctly, it was sometime ago when I wrote it.
      3. I wrote it in one sitting.

      1. Kate says:

        Thanks for answering and with detail, HG!

        My symbol looks like a sick heart and used to be a pink sun with sunglasses and was something blue before that. Are you doing that?

        1. HG Tudor says:


  7. lickemtomorrow says:

    Groundhog day in the life of the victim of a narcissist.

    How disheartening.

    And no wonder we talk about post traumatic stress disorder.

    It is, in many ways, just like being in battle. With the fear and anxiety, confusion, sense of desperation, and the desire to reach a place of safety. Intact. Not everyone makes it. Some are wounded and medics are called.

    It is a life or death situation in reality for some.

    Know you are making a difference here, HG.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Jolly good.

      1. lickemtomorrow says:

        I was napping before the Q&A yesterday and I had a dream about you. The gist of the dream was that you had saved a life. Literally. Through the work you are doing.

        I don’t take my dreams lightly. In fact, it was a very serious dream.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I’ve saved many lives and nobody was dreaming.

          1. FoolMe1Time says:

            Thank you HG.

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