America : You Are Being Conned


On the 25th May 2020, George Floyd was killed by a then police officer, Derek Chauvin, who knelt on Mr Floyd´s neck for over 8 minutes.

Following this protests have taken place in over 200 US cities.

Rioting, violent disorder and looting has occurred in many US cities.

12 major US cities have imposed curfews.

15 state governors have called in the National Guard.

13 people have died and 5600 have been arrested.

Why did Derek Chauvin behave this way?

Why did three other officers stand by and do nothing?

Why does police brutality occur?

Why do peaceful protests erupt into violence?

Why does looting and destruction occur in the very communities of those protestors?

Why does social media explode into accusation, counter-accusation, fake allegations and vitriol pitting people against one another?

What is the dark force choking the life out of America?

Why are you, America and indeed the world being conned?

Find out here and stop being conned.


1,043 thoughts on “America : You Are Being Conned

  1. BC30 says:

    Oh yeah, one more thing. Maintaining control in that moment without a thought about the possible future consequences cost him dearly.

  2. BC30 says:

    I went back and watched the reading of the verdict and the look on his face. He really cannot comprehend that he is being convicted. From his perspective he did nothing wrong and is blameless. He is simply incapable of understanding that even if he did not have the intent to cause death, he is to blame. He is unable to call forth any amount of introspection to even consider the jury members’ perspectives.

  3. BC30 says:

    Chauvin is being sentenced today. His motion for a new trial was denied. HE REALLY CAN’T SEE IT?!

  4. A Victor says:

    I purchased this yesterday, very much looking forward to reading it as this took place relatively close to home.

    1. Alexissmith2016 says:

      It’s a really, really good one AV.

      I learned so much!

      1. A Victor says:

        I’m super excited, need to find time to read it, life is so busy at the moment. I’m not sure how this ended up on this thread, I should’ve put it in the current one.

  5. Violetta says:

    And we go right on being conned.

    DM Headline:
    “Joe Biden coronavirus adviser Dr. Zeke Emanuel once argued it’s not worth living past 75 – despite president-elect being 77 – and suggested only ‘younger people who are yet to live a complete life’ should get a vaccine in a flu pandemic”

    Oh God, HIM? He’s a complete liar–spoke at a local medical school, misrepresenting Obamacare. It overcharged middle-class people to pay to expand Medicaid–I’ve worked for Medicaid, you’re safer with NO coverage. He network on Obamacare (really managed care, under another name) was needed because marginalized people didn’t know how to find a doctor so they went to emergency rooms–uh-uh: doctors can refuse to take new patients, especially Medicaid, but they can’t turn you away at the ER!

    HG, as always, was right. So was Stealer’s Wheel:

    Clowns to the left of me
    Jokers to the right
    Here I am
    Stuck in the middle with you.

  6. Violetta says:

    DM comment:

    ‘djamhollywood, Los Angeles, United States, 2 hours ago
    LMAO! Trump doesn’t have “his side of the story” Trump lives in a delusional reality he creates in his head where he is the greatest everything of all time. And he is such a narcissist, he had to call and talk to Woodward 18 times because he truly believed Woodward would right a book based on Trumps reality. But Woodward recorded every interview and wrote the TRUTH!’

    C’mon, HG, you could have SO much fun with this….

  7. Violetta says:

    From Piers Morgan’s DM column, “PIERS MORGAN: Trump is right, the 1619 Project promotes fake history and if Democrats keep trying to make Americans feel ashamed of Independence Day and back BLM protesters who scream at white diners, Biden will be history too”:

    “a Union Jack flag would today be flying proudly over the White House.”

    He (or the proofreaders, if DM has any, of which there’s little evidence), doesn’t know it’s only the Union Jack at sea, and the Union flag on land. Which I learned from you.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Indeed you did.

  8. Violetta says:

    DM headline:

    “White Kenosha man, 36, shot dead during BLM protests is seen on video taunting armed men and saying ‘Shoot me, n*****’ earlier in the evening”

    I don’t know which side is hoping to benefit from this kind of thing by making the other look bad, but this looks an awful lot like somebody was a plant. Unless he just joined as an outlet for his own aggression. Both could be true

    As usual, HG called it way before it happened.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you, Violetta.

  9. Violetta says:

    They’re at least a month behind you, HG:

    Ok, E., Qian, Y., Strejcek, B., & Aquino, K. (2020). Signaling virtuous victimhood as indicators of Dark Triad personalities. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. Advance online publication.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      ´Twas ever thus, Violetta.

    2. FYC says:

      V, I would say years behind and many miles to go. Researchers could save time and be significantly more useful if they studied HG’s model in detail.

      1. K says:

        I concur.

      2. Violetta says:

        But then they’d have to cite him. If they’re mid-rangers, they don’t want to do that:

        A. Because “he’s not an academic source who’s published in peer-reviewed journals”;

        B. Because “he didn’t set up an experimental model.complete with hypothesis, substantial control group, and double-blinds to gather and interpret evidence” (never mind that they may not have done so themselves, or that experiments often originate in anecdotal evidence or someone’s observations, with the variables to be determined later);

        C. Because reasons. (Insert mid-ranger Word Salad here.)

        1. FYC says:

          V, Fair points about narcissists in research. One big reason why they would not do so is that their names, and all those that came before them, would not be cited. It’s all about published citations and bragging rights to narcissists in research. I enjoyed your reason C the most. Haha!

          1. Another Cat says:

            I used to be a peer review buff, and a “State your full name” buff

            but do recognize since a few years back, since I came across HG Tudor’s wonderful systematic argumentation, that there are instances when this cannot be applied.

            A lot of researchers and authority ppl would have to face that their own word cannot so often be taken seriously because they are an unwitting narcissist. Must be a bit creepy to face.

            And many other reasons.

            But I do feel that the argumentation and thoroughly described behaviours which us survivors so recognize, merit HG’s posts and books to be published in peer-reviewed science journals.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            I appreciate your commendation, AC.

  10. Violetta says:

    Add NYC’s DeBlasio to the list of narcy hypocrites running the country (into the ground). He’s shown total disrespect for NYPD–but he’s got them guarding Gracie Mansion.

    Meanwhile, the city is worse than it was in the 70s and 80s. There were vent-men and bag-ladies, but they weren’t wall-to-wall.

    HG, I am so glad you and SM got to see the city when it was still awesome.

    DM article:

    “Drug-infested homeless camp takes over Chelsea: Businesses in Manhattan neighborhood slam Bill de Blasio for not clearing the dirty block invaded by junkies who set up home using furniture thrown out by fleeing New Yorkers”

    1. HG Tudor says:

      DM fail to mention how many blocks in Manhattan are unaffected by junkies.

      1. SMH says:

        Thank you, HG.

        Violetta, The DM hates NYC. Why? Jealous?

        I can’t stand DeBlasio. I do not know what is wrong with him – he’s lazy and entitled. But regardless, I have lived here on and off for decades. It has always been this way. ‘They’ were indeed wall to wall in the 1970s and 80s. Crack vials all over the place in the 1990s, etc. I also had my own drug problem back in the day. I’m not going to cast the first stone.

        The UWS was a wasteland before the homeless were moved in and Chelsea was overrun by tourists. Empty storefronts all over the place on the UWS. That’s because of the landlords. The homeless there are not getting the support they need. They’ve just been dumped in those hotels.

        I have two homeless shelters down the street, so I know of what I speak. I dropped a bunch of clothes off there the other day – someone held the door for me and I walked right in to the office. I walk by there every day. People are always hanging out on the stoop but they don’t bother anyone. Just folks down on their luck. There are plenty of junkies around too (the two populations are not necessarily the same). It’s also a family neighbourhood with great camaraderie, lots of small mom and pop shops, bustling. But it’s not full of entitled white people. I think that’s the difference.

        Thankfully, chain stores are beginning to leave. I hope all those residents also leave. That way, rents will come down, artists and small businesses will be able to move back in, and the city will get some of its character back.

        1. K says:

          I prefer street hustlers and junkies over entitled white people.

          1. SMH says:

            Lol K, me too.

        2. Violetta says:

          I lived in Queens, but I have friends in Chelsea. With one couple, the father is Black-Puerto Rican-Jewish. The chain stores provide jobs. People ARE getting mugged on the upper east side, where they are indeed richer.

          I will say that for NYC, the muggers profile you. I was occasionally attacked by crazies, but no one ever tried to steal my wallet. They knew a sporadically employed performing artist when they saw one–city was chock full of us. The oversized duffle bag was full of old copies of Backstage, dog-eared 8x10s and sheet music, and a pile of stinky pink tights.

          1. SMH says:

            Violetta, I am sorry you had bad experiences. I have seen nothing about people being mugged on the Upper East Side, however. Not even in the DM. Most violence is in marginalised neighborhoods.

          2. Violetta says:

            DM headline:

            Upper West Side residents threaten to sue Mayor Bill de Blasio if he doesn’t move 13,000 homeless people out of the neighborhood amid soaring crime and violence

          3. SMH says:

            Violetta, BS. There are about 700 homeless people in 3 hotels on the UWS because shelters are too crowded for social distancing. The 13000 figure is for the whole city – all boroughs (read the article, not just the misleading headline, which should offer a clue as to what the DM is trying to do – stir up trouble). There are also two potential lawsuits – one threatening to sue if de Blasio DOES move them back to shelters. The West Side Community Organization is full of rich NIMBY c*nts who think they own public space. I am here. I am involved. I have lived on or near the UWS since the 1980s. I was just there a few days ago – walked right by the Lucerne. Please don’t get your news from the DM. Read Gothamist, Patch or even the Daily News (not the Post) instead. Much more balanced. That said, garbage collection is definitely a problem.

  11. Violetta says:

    Political analysis of the day:

    Dogma1200, SomewhereOverTheRainbow, United States, 11 hours ago

    It doesn’t matter. I would vote for a beagle for president before I would vote for dump.

    Meanwhile, Meghan Markle is speaking at the same event as Kamala Harris, and is said to be consulting various political WAGs to shift into politics herself.

    Do all Narcissists converge at the vanishing point, or is that just an optical trick?

  12. Violetta says:


    DM headline:

    “NY AG Letitia James lied about her age for a decade (she’s 61), supported ‘phony’ settlement deal for Harvey Weinstein’s victims and had her sights set on NRA years ago when she called it a ‘terror organization'”

    One of yours, I think?

    1. SMH says:

      Violetta, do you really believe what you read in the DM? It’s a sensationalist right wing tabloid. It can be entertaining and the comments can give you a feel for certain segments of both the US and the UK, but i hope you take it with a grain of salt.

      1. Violetta says:

        They tell more truths about the US than our own publications do . To be fair, our publications probably tell more truths about the UK than UK publications do.

        1. SMH says:

          When 20 of the front page stories are about MM and Harry, and we are in the middle of an epidemic and economic collapse, I don’t think it reflects what is actually happening in the world. They do get a lot of good photos, however!

          1. Violetta says:

            I grant you. But when there was a terrorist attack on a college campus, the UK named the suspect and gave details of the attack when people who actually live in that town or attend/work at that college didn’t have a clue why they’d been told to evacuate the campus. I know people who got jobs there.

          2. Violetta says:

            Tbh, with all the crap going on in the U.S., reading DM’s latest about minor politicos like James or outright trash like Amber or the K-dashes is a relief.

          3. SMH says:

            Violetta, Yes, it is entertaining. I can agree with you on that. But it’s also hit or miss as to suspects in terrorist attacks.

  13. I didn’t realise 13 people had died since/from that initial tragedy..

  14. Violetta says:

    Celebrity gossip blogger Lainey needs to read this article.
    She’s distancing herself from Meghan’s markled ex-friend Jessica Mulroney, although not (so far) from Meghan Markle herself (she’s done puff-pieces on both):

    Lainey is focussing on the societal reluctance to name “white privilege” in action.

    As yet, she has not focussed on the societal reluctance to name Narcissism in action.

  15. lickemtomorrow says:

    Well ‘Gone with the Wind’, taken down by HBO until it can properly be sanitized as per the current crisis, is now #1 bestselling movie over on Amazon. Funny how that works. I’d hate to lose my favourite narcissist on film, or the best response ever given to a narc on film: “Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn”

    1. Violetta says:


      Scarlett is Narcissistic; the real narc is Suellen. She’s a classic mid-ranger. The book makes this clearer. I have quotes to support this, but there will be spoilers.

      1. lickemtomorrow says:

        I’m here to learn everything I can about narcissists and starting to pick up on narcissistic characters in film/books/TV. Suellen has obviously gone under the wire considering Scarlett takes the stage as the main character, so I should be interested to hear the breakdown on her. Personally, I don’t think Scarlett is aware she is a narc, like a lot of mid rangers going by what HG says. It still amazes me that they are unaware, but HG has explained that as well. Thanks for highlighting that from the story as it adds another layer to consider. I wonder if Margaret Mitchell was aware she was writing about narcissists? Probably not, but with a writer’s powers of observation she got it down to a tee.

        1. mommypino says:

          lickemtomorrow, My personal guess is that Scarlett is an UL Somatic while Suellen is a LMR or MMR Victim. I was thinking that Rhett Butler I a Greater. But I have never read the book. The actress who did Scarlett’s role did an amazing job. Her expressions of trying to survive and get her way at whatever cost had a lot of similarities to my Middle Lesser mom’s expressions when my mom was challenged which is why I am guessing that Scarlett is of a Lesser variety.

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            I like your breakdown, Mommypino, and you know a lot more about the various types than I do right now 🙂 So interesting you are able to compare Scarlett to your mom. Is there a histrionic variety in there as well?

          2. mommypino says:

            Thank you lickemtomorrow.

            Absolutely, Scarlett has some histrionic comorbidity.

            From what I learned here and my personal observations, Lessers are the fighters while Mid Rangers are the whiners and sulkers. The only similarity my mom had with Scarlett is the fighting spirit. My mom was a Victim cadre so she rationalized her endless cycle of chaos with how poor she was growing up, how unattractive she was and how she was not blessed with a sharp brain. But my mom didn’t whine or sulked as much as the Mid Rangers I knew. My mom fought. My mom didn’t have histrionic either but she had paranoia. My half sister had histrionic and her similarity with Scarlett is that when my sister talked it was like she was on a play or soap opera. Everything was exaggerated and she used her accent and voice to be the center of attention wherever she was. But she was not a fighter like Scarlett.

            Maybe some people think that Scarlett was not really NPD because she helped Melanie when she was sick but Vivien Leigh’s portrayal was very clear that she had zero empathy for Melanie and it was something that she just had to do. My narc mom did a lot of good things as well such as build houses for my grandma and uncle and help my cousins get education but those deeds were not driven by empathy and because my mom was a Lesser she didn’t pretend that she had empathy either, very much like Scarlett’s style.

          3. lisk says:


            You said, “because my mom was a Lesser she didn’t pretend that she had empathy either.”

            For some reason, I can respect that lack of pretense.

          4. mommypino says:

            Lisk, me too. It’s an extra betrayal when you were made to believe that the person was capable of caring. My mom never said she loved me or anybody like the words made her uncomfortable or something. But she said that she felt bad that my uncle was living in a house like that or made jokes about his poor living conditions so she built him a decent house. But she loved the fuel and the feeling of being superior by being the one who was capable of helping.

          5. mommypino says:

            Actually lisk, I thinking more about it, my mom said that she loved me and my grandma and some of my uncles but it was always in a roundabout way. Like “would I have done this if I didn’t love you?” Or “she is my mother so of course I love her like a good daughter should.” Or “even if your uncle is not very smart and doesn’t realize the things I did for him I still care about him unconditionally because he is my brother.” She was very uncomfortable saying it too. Many of our relatives accept her for what she is too. They just say, “that’s just how she, she says things like that but she actually has a good heart because of all of the things that she did.” Kind of opposite from what people say about Mid Rangers like, “he’s not as kind as he appears to be, he’s really rotten to the core.”

          6. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dear mommypino,
            Cap’n Rhett Butler was almost destroyed after the death of his beautiful Bonnie Blue Butler, I doubt very much a greater would be or any narc for that matter
            He was a wealthy scoundrel n professional gambler and recognised Belle Watling had a good heart, unlike Miz Scarlett
            Rhett had deep feelings
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          7. mommypino says:

            Hello Bubbles 🍾, thank you for your thoughts on Rhett Butler as he is the character that I am most curious about. I was wondering what commenters think about his as well as I struggled identifying what he is. I have seen so many N red flags from his behaviors but I struggled with how broken hearted he was with the death of his child. I was having a hard time choosing between a Super Empath or a Greater. I would love to know what HG thinks about Rhett Butler.

            Many of his behaviors seemed very narcissistic. He admitted to Scarlet that he was always for himself, “I believe in Rhett Butler. He’s the only cause that I know. The rest doesn’t mean much to me.” This quote made me think that he was completely aware that he lacked empathy. Many of the interactions he had with Scarlett were provocations and because of Scarlett’s histrionic tendencies, if he was a narcissist, he definitely got boat loads of fuel from her even though she wasn’t an Empath. I also believe that Ms. Watling is an IPSS that he used for many purposes including triangulation. I also felt that he triangulated Scarlett with their dead child and he said something which I can’t remember exactly but he said something that didn’t feel like something that a parent would say naturally after a child’s tragic death. I just felt that it is hard and almost impossible to use a child that just recently died a tragic death for triangulation because it almost cheapens the beloved child’s death. I also felt that the way that he stared at Scarlett when he first saw her was very much the infamous narcissistic stare with no boundaries and full of entitlement. But I do remember that he was a great dad who read books to their child and did his best to make it work for the kid. I need to watch it again to see if I am remembering it correctly. I also want to read the book to see if there is context in the book that I didn’t see from the movie. I agree with commenters that say this is an amazing movie and probably one of the best ever made.

          8. mommypino says:

            Dear Bubbles, I think Rhett Buttler might also be a narcissistic normal.

          9. Violetta says:

            The Gospel of Tara, according to HG Tudor
            As explicated by his unworthy handmaid, Violetta
            Suellen O’Hara: Mid-range type B.
            (Warning: both sympathetic and unsympathetic characters are steeped in cultural racism, including black characters)
            Night before barbecue:
            Suellen, embroidering on what she gigglingly called her “hope chest,” was wondering if she could possibly detach Stuart Tarleton from her sister’s side at the barbecue tomorrow and fascinate him with the sweet womanly qualities which she possessed and Scarlett did not
            [Next day at the barbecue]
            John Wilkes came down the steps to offer his arm to Scarlett. As she descended from the carriage, she saw Suellen smirk and knew that she must have picked out Frank Kennedy in the crowd.
            If I couldn’t catch a better beau than that old maid in britches! she thought contemptuously, as she stepped to the ground and smiled her thanks to John Wilkes.
            Frank Kennedy was hurrying to the carriage to assist Suellen, and Suellen was bridling in a way that made Scarlett want to slap her. Frank Kennedy might own more land than anyone in the County and he might have a very kind heart, but these things counted for nothing against the fact that he was forty, slight and nervous and had a thin ginger-colored beard and an old-maidish, fussy way about him. However, remembering her plan, Scarlett smothered her contempt and cast such a flashing smile of greeting at him that he stopped short, his arm outheld to Suellen and goggled at Scarlett in pleased bewilderment.
            It’s already clear that Suellen has no loyalty to Frank. She likes having a suitor, but if she could steal other girls’ beaux as Scarlett does, she would. She’s just as vain, but not as skilled.

            “Mother, the lace is loose on my new ball dress and I want to wear it tomorrow night at Twelve Oaks. Won’t you please fix it?”
            “Mother, Scarlett’s new dress is prettier than mine and I look like a fright in pink. Why can’t she wear my pink and let me wear her green? She looks all right in pink.”
            “Mother, can I stay up for the ball tomorrow night? I’m thirteen now–”
            “Mrs. O’Hara, would you believe it– Hush, you girls, before I take me crop to you! Cade Calvert was in Atlanta this morning and he says–will you be quiet and let me be hearing me own voice?– and he says it’s all upset they are there and talking nothing but war, militia drilling, troops forming. And he says the news from Charleston is that they will be putting up with no more Yankee insults.”
            Ellen’s tired mouth smiled into the tumult as she addressed herself first to her husband, as a wife should.
            “If the nice people of Charleston feel that way, I’m sure we will all feel the same way soon,” she said, for she had a deeply rooted belief that, excepting only Savannah, most of the gentle blood of the whole continent could be found in that small seaport city, a belief shared largely by Charlestonians.
            “No, Carreen, next year, dear. Then you can stay up for balls and wear grown-up dresses, and what a good time my little pink cheeks will have! Don’t pout, dear. You can go to the barbecue, remember that, and stay up through supper, but no balls until you are fourteen.
            “Give me your gown, Scarlett, I will whip the lace for you after prayers.
            “Suellen, I do not like your tone, dear. Your pink gown is lovely and suitable to your complexion, Scarlett’s is to hers. But you may wear my garnet necklace tomorrow night.”
            Suellen, behind her mother’s hack, wrinkled her nose triumphantly at Scarlett, who had been planning to beg the necklace for herself. Scarlett put out her tongue at her. Suellen was an annoying sister with her whining and selfishness, and had it not been for Ellen’s restraining hand, Scarlett would frequently have boxed her ears.

            Scarlett, of course, is thoroughly selfish, but whiny she is not.
            When the sisters try to keep Tara going towards the end of the war:
            Scarlett next had tried her sisters and Melanie in the fields, but that had worked no better. Melanie had picked neatly, quickly and willingly for an hour in the hot sun and then fainted quietly and had to stay in bed for a week. Suellen, sullen and tearful, pretended to faint too, but came back to consciousness spitting like an angry cat when Scarlett poured a gourdful of water in her face. Finally she refused point-blank.
            “I won’t work in the fields like a darky! You can’t make me. What if any of our friends ever heard of it? What if–if Mr. Kennedy ever knew? Oh, if Mother knew about this–”
            “You just mention Mother’s name once more, Suellen O’Hara, and I’ll slap you flat,” cried Scarlett. “Mother worked harder than any darky on this place and you know it, Miss Fine Airs!”
            “She did not! At least, not in the fields. And you can’t make me. I’ll tell Papa on you and he won’t make me work!”
            “Don’t you dare go bothering Pa with any of our troubles!” cried Scarlett, distracted between indignation at her sister and fear for Gerald.
            “I’ll help you, Sissy,” interposed Carreen docilely. “I’ll work for Sue and me too. She isn’t well yet and she shouldn’t be out in the sun.”
            Scarlett said gratefully: “Thank you, Sugarbaby,” but looked worriedly at her younger sister. Carreen, who had always been as delicately pink and white as the orchard blossoms that are scattered by the spring wind, was no longer pink but still conveyed in her sweet thoughtful face a blossomlike quality. She had been silent, a little dazed since she came back to consciousness and found Ellen gone, Scarlett a termagant, the world changed and unceasing labor the order of the new day. It was not in Carreen’s delicate nature to adjust herself to change. She simply could not comprehend what had happened and she went about Tara like a sleepwalker, doing exactly what she was told. She looked, and was, frail but she was willing, obedient and obliging. When she was not doing Scarlett’s bidding, her rosary beads were always in her hands and her lips moving in prayers for her mother and for Brent Tarleton. It did not occur to Scarlett that Carreen had taken Brent’s death so seriously and that her grief was unhealed. To Scarlet, Carreen was still “baby sister,” far too young to have had a really serious love affair.
            Scarlett, standing in the sun in the cotton rows, her back breaking from the eternal bending and her hands roughened by the dry bolls, wished she had a sister who combined Suellen’s energy and strength with Carreen’s sweet disposition. For Carreen picked diligently and earnestly. But, after she had labored for an hour it was obvious that she, and not Suellen, was the one not yet well enough for such work. So Scarlett sent Carreen back to the house too.

            Carreen, however, is clearly an empath.
            After the surrender, an ever-present feud over the horse smoldered between Scarlett and Suellen. Now that there was no danger of Yankees, Suellen wanted to go calling on the neighbors. Lonely and missing the happy sociability of the old days, Suellen longed to visit friends, if for no other reason than to assure herself that the rest of the County was as bad off as Tara. But Scarlett was adamant. The horse was for work, to drag logs from the woods, to plow and for Pork to ride in search of food. On Sundays he had earned the right to graze in the pasture and rest. If Suellen wanted to go visiting she could go afoot.
            Before the last year Suellen had never walked a hundred yards in her life and this prospect was anything but pleasing. So she stayed at home and nagged and cried and said, once too often: “Oh, if only Mother was here!” At that, Scarlett gave her the long- promised slap, hitting her so hard it knocked her screaming to the bed and caused great consternation throughout the house. Thereafter, Suellen whined the less, at least in Scarlett’s presence.

            Anyone not sympathizing with Scarlett here?
            The incidents surrounding Gerald O’Hara’s death, as recounted by Will Benteen, a Cracker (several cuts above trash in the Southern hierarchy, though not considered a gentleman) who comes to live at Tara after the War take up most of CHAPTER XXXIX. Rather than my posting the whole thing, see

            Note Scarlett would be perfectly happy to take the money goes with the Oath. It’s what Suellen does to their father that infuriates her.

            As Florence King has written, Scarlett is a bitch, but Suellen is a pill:

            There is something admirable and even noble about a true bitch; the Pill has no saving graces whatsoever. Suellen whined, complained, stamped her foot, and stuck out her tongue; she was a sneak, a backbiter, a tattle tale, a troublemaker, and she “bridled”–meaning that she put her hands on her hips, shook herself, screwed up her mean little face, and looked around for someone to do her bidding.

            Pills, who dwell in a world of jejune spitefulness, love to expend their energy on sniping trivia. If Suellen O’Hara had made the famous God-is-my-witness pledge, it would have gone something like this: “I’m tired of being hungry! You’re just tryin’ to mean to me! If I don’t get enough to eat, I’m going to go in my room ad slam the door and throw all my hair ribbons on the floor! That’ll show you!”

          10. mommypino says:

            V, I never liked Mid Rangers. I have lived with one and I agree that Suellen is a great example. They are beyond belief whiney and act like they need you to rescue them for every trivial thing!

          11. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dear mommypino,
            Thank you from your perspective insight
            I just luv everyone’s interpretations, reasonings and explanations, always learning here
            He did say to Scarlett after she revealed she was pregnant “maybe you’ll have a miscarriage” 😱 a very hurtful narc comment
            In the book she has two previous children who weren’t portrayed in the movie
            Wade was son of Charles
            Ella daughter of Frank
            Eugenia “Bonnie Blue” daughter of Rhett
            Unborn (deceased ) daughter second child with Rhett, named Katie
            Their two strong volitile personalities clashed enormously, does that mean they were narc on narc ?
            I just felt Rhett had more depth n feeling than Scarlett (she was out to get what she wanted hook or by crook)

            I concede he and Scarlett were both probably narcissists, yet it pains me to see my all time favourite movie destroyed by narcissistic dissection 😩
            I sometimes find “strong narcissistic traits” do overlap actual narcissists themselves, taking longer to diagnose
            Trouble is, I’m always in lala land when watching GWTW 😂
            I do concur Mr Tudor doing an analysis on this great movie based on the current world tend restrictions ATM
            Looking forward with interest more interesting constructive observations
            Thank you mommypino 😊
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          12. mommypino says:

            Thank you Bubbles!! Lol I agree that dissection can ruin it. I remember my husband asking me to not ruin Waterboy which is his and my stepson’s favorite comedy movie together when I was pointing out how abusive Bobby Boucher’s mom is like. He said he just wants to laugh at the movie and not analyze it. Thank you for sharing your perspectives as well! I really want to read the book now as my truth seeking trait makes me want to find out more about the characters! 😘💕

          13. Violetta says:


            Oh dear, I was going to do Scarlett next.

            I still don’t think either she or Rhett is a full narc.

          14. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dear Violetta and mommypino,
            No please analyse away, I’m luvving it
            To me Scarlett portrayed a very strong powerful independent n stunningly beautiful female who was totally vain, totally self centered and could attract whom she pleased without barely lifting a finger and only consid errrr ummmmm manipulated others when it was only her best interests, narcissistic – hell yes !
            The bond with her father and Tara was ingrained into her strong Irish blood, so was her temper haha
            Rhett was a man of the world with vast experience and maturity, a charming naughty boy rascal and a businessman of devious dealings but did have respect for the true gentlemen and lady namely the perfect “over the top” empathic Melanie
            Rhett put up with a lot from Scarlett, I don’t feel a narcissist would’ve been as frustrated and exhausted from trying so hard as he did, to win her love and plus he was a doting dad n besotted with Bonnie, I felt he really cared
            Rhett would’ve been better off with a dog
            Scarlett, on the other hand, really couldn’t give a damn !
            I still luv the movie, no matter what 😂
            Fire away lovelies, learning heaps here
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          15. Mary says:

            The book is much, much better. Scarlett is fleshed out and she is not the shallow vain girl the movie shows her to be. For example, in the movie Scarlett is worried about losing her figure after giving birth, but in a vain, selfish way. In the book Scarlett believes that if she loses her figure she will lose her ability to survive in the post-war environment. Read the book. The movie was about beautiful scenes and beautiful costumes. Read the book.

          16. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dear Mary,
            Yes, you’re quite right, the book was different to the movie
            I did read the book a long time ago, however, I would need to reread it in order to comment the comparison
            I guess there’s only so much one can cram in 3h 58m
            Thank you Mary for your suggestion, I shall borrow my mother’s huge hard copy
            I’ll have to buy a stand to put it on as it’s so heavy 📖😂
            Wish me luck
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        2. Mary says:

          Read the book. Scarlett is not as she was portrayed in the movie. Scarlett makes sense in the book but in the movie she is nothing but shallow and self-serving using only her “womanly wiles” to get what she wants – a very shallow, Hollywood interpretation of a woman. Trust me, read the book.

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            Hello, Mary, I didn’t have a chance to respond earlier, but have kept up with some of the commentary and am getting loads of book recommendations since I’ve been here. All worthwhile, and tbh I haven’t had the opportunity prior because I’ve been too busy reading books on the CW which Scarlett O’Hara got caught up in 🙂

            I’d say they’ve given a decent portrayal of aspects of that in the movie and I’m always glad to see Rhett presenting the ‘other side of the coin’ to the Southerners all so willing to take up arms and fight the Yankees. Scarlett has no time for the war either, at least according to the movie. Miss Melanie is going to support Southern manhood in her very empathic way.

            There’s no doubt the book would be an interesting read and I will look to it. As I said, I’ve been more involved with fact than fiction for the most part. There’s no doubt narcissists have been around for a while and my thoughts on the movie is Margaret Mitchell must have captured them quite well as a writer. That would be to her credit. But there are always nuances and they should not be overlooked. I say the same thing about the CW.

            Bubbles is lucky to have a copy at hand. I shall see about sticking my head in some fiction for the sake of further enlightenment.

            And I’m wondering also where our good friend Renarde has gone as I know she loved this book dearly also. Hopefully she will check in with us again soon <3

      2. Renarde says:


        Bang on. Suellen is a tit. My gawds I want to slap her.

        Seems to me missus, you have also read the book. I have read that book many times. The first time i read it, i was, what 13? I get to the end of the book and the last bloody page is missing! have my own book. You know, I havnt read it in many years.

        I watched the film again way before the kerfuffle. It is the best film ever made. Ever.

        I know lots about GWTW. Neither the book or the film is racist. Transmuting 1000 pages into the film created many, many headaches for the producers. The Directors Cukor and Fleming understandably struggled with it.

        Leigh read the book and knew she was Scarlett. No one else but her could have played it. Just as Gable was Butler.

        What GWTW did was show how it was. It is a war film, it highlights the proto of the civil rights movement. It is comedy and also tradegy. But above all, it is a love story..

        The fact that it was removed shows how utterly stupid some people are. 1938. The producers knew, right then, how incendiary something like this could be. Can someone tell me in 2020 why we are STILL having this conversation?

        And let’s not forget this. When the North blockaded the South, it was my own folks that also died. It’s called the ‘Lancashire Famine’.

        1. Violetta says:

          Started reading at 11. Did the flashlight under the covers thing and finished in a few days.

          What I liked about both Scarlett and the Wife of Bath was they didn’t waste time wailing about the patriarchal society controlling their lives. They just got up and got on with it, and worked the system well as they could.

          Also, Scarlett’s lack of hypocrisy with herself, though she could lie like a rug with everybody else. That scene at the Bazaar, where she realizes the Glorious Cause is a crock of shite…. Some of my teachers were what we’d now call SJWs, and their hypocrisy was amazing. I was so relieved to find a character who also thought that it was a load of self-righteous crap.

          1. Renarde says:


            Oh agreed. But it was Butler that pointed out to her that ‘The Cause’ was largelly useless. She didn’t get there on her own though, I would argue, it would have eventually happened.

            She gets it during the burning of Atlanta itself, when the South is retreating. The Conferderacy now a lost cause.

            There is a lot to admire in Scarlett. Wife of Bath is Chaucer?

            Never been able to get on with him.

          2. Violetta says:

            Scarlett realizes the propaganda is bullshit before Rhett appears and explains how the whole structure of society is bullshit. They discuss politics a lot in the book. Scarlett knows that most people are phony, but her formal education is limited.
            Rhett has the background in history to see the cycle of civilizations as it’s happening.

            Not like Chaucer? How is this possible!

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Must not be gap-toothed.

          4. Violetta says:

            Being “gat-toothed” was considered a sign of high libido in Alys of Bath’s day.

          5. Renarde says:


            Yeah, I would tend to agree and therefore we are talking semantics. Fair play.

            At the Bazaar, Scatelett is 17. I mean, shes still a child but I agree, she grasped something and therefore when Butler rocks along and offers $150 dollars in bullion, how on earth wouldnt your head be turned?

            It’s like Macbeth, Innitt? The seeds had to be planted. She just needed the water.

            There is so much to adore in both Scarlett and Butler. At least they understand each other even if Butler is ahead of the learning curve.

            You cannot say that about Ashley..with all his own honourable notions, He was a typical MRN. Butler says, he cannot be faithful to his own wife in his own head but cannot be technically unfaithful to her either.

            Whereas Butler says to Scarlett, I dont begrudge him your body but I do begrudge him your mind.

            I was only 13 when I read that. I had immense respect for Butler and none for the limp wrist

            Intelligence is the ONLY Thing that matters. I’m getting on my high horse. I want a truly brilliant man and if I cant have him, I do not want anybody else.

            For without education and intelligence, there is no understanding. Without that then we have nothing. Humans just go round in circles, like poor Ashley did.

            As to Chaucer, I appropriated the book from PN, who did not have the intelligence to read literay works unless his life depended on it.

            I read Stendhals The Red And the Black when i was 17. I still have Wuthering Heights. Still struggling with that one. Like In the Name of the Rose, both were accidentally dopped in the bath.

            I have La Renb6urs on the go. Intresting read. Also Aurelious.

            What are you reading, Vi?

          6. Scarlett says:

            Clark Gable had dentures.
            There’s an idea for you, HG. Gum your women.

          7. HG Tudor says:

            No thank you Pamela.

          8. Violetta says:


            Why are you struggling with Wuthering Heights?

            I read a modern version of Canterbury at 11 after hearing it was naughty. I liked the Miller’s Tale best. I took it out of the local library regularly, and one day the edition I usually checked our wasn’t on the rack. I checked out a different one, rode my bike home, then realized it was the original spellings I didn’t feel like riding all the way back, so I thought, let’s have a look at the Miller’s Tale, since I’m pretty familiar with that. I discovered:

            A) despite the weird spellings, I recognized most of the words, and got the others from context, even if I didn’t bother looking at the glossary in the margins;

            B) the modern version wasn’t censored much, but the Middle English wasn’t censored at all. Holy Bela Karolyi….

            In the book, Rhett never says he loves her until the very end. He makes it sound like he’s just hot for her. I wondered why she couldn’t see through that even when I was 11, but it does make her less of a bitch then the movie, where he says it at the Atlanta Bazaar.

            Otoh, Ashley has been giving her mixed messages all along, from his compulsive visiting prior to the engagement to Melanie being announced to the scene where he tells her that Rhett has coarsened her character. It’s after that that she decides to stop sharing a bed with Rhett, as if she thinks she’s keeping herself “pure” for Ashley. A lot of her ideas are messed up because she was raised with such rigid ideas of what is feminine and what is not. Her whole life she’s been putting on this act, so she can’t accept someone loving her for herself.

            Recently read:
            Pratchett and Baxter’s The Long Earth
            Iain Pears’ Arcadia

          9. Violetta says:


            Now that I think about it, Scarlett and Catherine Earnshaw have it in common that they want the civilized blond man they have to.pyt on an act for, and can’t accept the dark-haired rebel who sees them for what they are. The difference is Scarlett knows she’s putting on an act, so she stays functioning, if self-defeating on the romantic level, whereas Catherine tries to be her act, and it leads to insanity and death.

  16. The Virtuous Force says:

    Snow the malignant narcissist is one of the people choking the life out of me because apparently selfish, malicious, pathologically lying, evil, psychopathic, severely abusive, cheating intolerable instruments of undeserved cruelty is what people protect when he isnt a victim.

    I’d love for his enablers and flying monkeys to ensure themselves and the wicked witch stay in the pathetic cage they were exiled to for psychological abuse by proxy and cruel and unusual punishment of the innocent Dorothy and the scarecrow and cowardly lion.

    They can do without the heartless tinman tho.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I recommend you obtain “The Truth About Flying Monkeys”.

  17. Kim e says:

    Another Cat.
    You wrote:
    Kim E,

    Really sorry about how my expressions came across. No disrespect meant towards anyone. Quite the contrary, I meant to express mutual respect.”

    I have been looking for this to reply directly to it since you wrote it. I apologize it has taken me this long.

    When I said I did not think a language barrier was the issue it was because you speak perfectly to me. No hesitation like you are looking for the right words to use.But for the sake of moving forward I will except that the language barrier is an issue.
    What I found offensive was the use of the word “Them”. To me that word just makes a group sound like a nonentity. Like this group is not important enough to even give a label to. Instead of saying “invite blacks to our houses to get to know them” when I read “Invite them to our houses….” it took on a whole different meaning to me.

    Just treat everyone the same with the same respect until they show you it is not warranted. I dont care who they are, their standing in the community, the color of their skin, their religion. If they do something illegal or unethical they should be held accountable. George Floyd did not in any way shape or form deserve what happened to him.I just hope his death was the spark that lights change.

    Thanks for listening Cat!

  18. Kim e says:

    “There you go again, MP. If I had a dollar for every time you’ve mentioned me on this blog without directly addressing me, I’d be rich!”

    I am going to put copyright2020 next to my name and the next time MP uses it without my permission I will sue!!!!

    1. SMH says:

      Hahahaha Kim e© (just in case)

    2. K says:

      Hear, hear!

  19. Witch says:

    Sorry, too many comments so I can’t find your reply to respond under it. But now you know that that comment was wrong. Europeans invented chattel slavery so, no, the ancient Egyptian empire was not operating the same way as the British empire. Even after slavery was abolished black people in the diaspora continued to suffer horrific abuses.
    So I don’t give 2 fucks about “yobs” taking down statues of slave traders in Britain and I don’t know why you would care either. Not only “yobs” showing their arses

    1. SMH says:

      Witch, They care because it scares them that black people are asserting control, so they turn them into ‘mobs,’ ‘uncivilized’ etc., which then becomes an excuse to further oppress.

      Did you see my comment about Citizen’s Advice? It fits with what HG is saying about turning to the law in the context of the narcissistic (racist) abuse your niece is suffering.

      1. Witch says:

        It’s interesting to see where people choose to direct their energy.
        There has been studies on this subject if people wanted to find them:

        there was also a study that found that police officers over estimate the age of black boys by 4.5 years. Which means that a black male kid is more likely to be mistaken for an adult or an older teenager than a white male kid:

        “ Black boys as young as 10 may not be viewed in the same light of childhood innocence as their white peers, but are instead more likely to be mistaken as older, be perceived as guilty and face police violence if accused of a crime, according to new research published by the American Psychological Association.”

        I believe there was also another study on pre-school teachers who were presented with a video of a black female child, a black male child and a white female child and a white male child, in a play ground and they were asked to look out for bad behaviour and for the majority of the video they were looking at the black male child.

        So all this means that a white person could be getting up to no good but they are more likely to get away with it than a black person, because people are not watching them as often with the presumption that they are getting up to no good when black people are around.

        1. SMH says:

          Witch, Yes, I know about these perceptions and that black children are more likely to be excluded from school, etc. They are forced to grow up quickly for so many reasons. In the US a 12 year old boy named Tamir Rice was shot and killed by a police officer when he was playing with a toy gun. The officer shot him as soon as he exited his car. It is a huge social failure, not just a failure of policing.

          I am glad you saw the message about the CAB. I hope your sister can get some help from them and your niece can return to school without being bullied. How old is she?

          1. Witch says:

            She’s old enough that it may not be worth the stress pursuing the issue.
            I will do research just in case the same issue arises when she goes to college or at uni.
            At that point I will just tell her to press record, find the perps on social media and expose them online, that will send the right narcs their way

          2. Violetta says:

            When my students were discussing the Rice case, they said that there were several things that could have made for a different outcome:

            1. The person who called it in said the gun might be a toy. The dispatcher did not relay that information.

            2. The police could have parked across the street and used a bullhorn. This would allow them to:

            A) get behind the car if his gun is real; or

            B) observe him long enough to see that he moved like a kid, despite his size.

            Pulling up right next to him meant they had to make a split-second decision, which was a fatal one.

          3. SMH says:

            Violetta, Agree but I also think they immediately ‘saw’ the boy as a threat because of the sorts of perceptions that Witch laid out.

          4. Violetta says:


            The perfect storm.

          5. SMH says:

            Violetta, It seems like there are an awful lot of perfect storms. Yet another black man shot to death by a white cop in Atlanta last night.

          6. Violetta says:


            The Atlanta cop can at least argue that he was summoned to intervene when the guy blocked the takeout line, and that the guy grabbed his taser and ran.

            The following headline on a DM story is unequivocal:

            Mentally ill man, 28, spent FIVE MONTHS in prison for ‘assaulting’ two cops before bodycam footage revealed a group of officers beat, tased and taunted him after arresting him for no reason

            OTOH, there is also the story about the fuvrnile offender who got 6 months in juvie hall for passing a college girl’s killer the knife in Morningside Park. (Granted, many New Yorkers would wonder what the hell she was doing trying to buy drugs in Morningside Park instead of going to Washington Square, but she was from out of town and hadn’t been there long enough to pick up the niceties of local etiquette.) As some readers have noted, “Where are the riots?”

          7. SMH says:

            Violetta, I am not sure what your point is but one juvi murder does not make a pattern. Nor is it the same as being killed by a cop whose life was not at risk in either of the most recent incidents.

        2. Bubbles 🍾 says:

          Dear Witch,
          I was seated next to a lovely aboriginal girl at primary school, (grade 5) she was quiet, extremely well mannered and immaculately dressed, Betty was a beautiful girl
          For some reason, she didn’t show up at school one day and never came back
          I was sooooo sad
          I was more worried about the “white” girl they teamed with
          She’d deliberately try and pick fights with me (maybe she did the same to Betty)
          I’ll never know
          She also picked her nose and ate it 😱
          Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          1. Mercy says:


            “She also picked her nose and ate it 😱
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘”

            I think you just won best comment!

          2. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dear Mercy,
            Hahahahahaha, thanks Mercy
            That was the first time I had witnessed someone doing that, amazing what your brain retains
            I’m scarred for life 🤣
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

      2. Witch says:

        Hi SMH
        Sorry I forgot to answer yes I saw your comment I will see what CAB say

    2. Kiki says:

      I care because it’s an excuse for antisocial behaviour

      Let me ask you this if this behaviour by mostly thugs continues and all the cops , guards are the enemy.
      What happens then , the least of people’s troubles will be a fucking statue , maybe being
      attacked in your bed or your business (if you have one) is what’s next .
      Anarchy I will call it what it is behind the disguise of BLM .
      By the way BLM reeks of racism within itself .

      I have no more to say to you


      1. Kiki says:

        Oh and my last comment you maybe be some prissy middle class women who dreams of being a witch
        I have lived in a disadvantaged area and reality NO it’s because they ate starving . many of these people have serious VICTIM mentality BLAME everyone but their own shitty choices and sheer lack of responsibility.

        By the way GF held a gun to pregnant woman’s stomach whilst his crew robbed her house .
        What a saint .
        He didn’t deserve to die At the hands of a cop I agree , but if I was that pregnant woman I would have killed him myself , what about millions of others who died in similar circumstances no matter what their race colour or creed oh not a word .

        Im honestly sick of this bandwagon shite .
        BLM is falling into serious I AM A VICTIM with zero responsibility for their actions towards others.
        Just like GF killer.

        I’m done here reading all this one sided propaganda crap from some posters

        PS Thank you Mommypino you seem sensitive and logical and truly empathic.


        1. Witch says:

          “Oh and my last comment you maybe be some prissy middle class women who dreams of being a witch”

          Actually no, I’m not a prissy middle class woman. So yes,
          I’m well aware of the narcs in the lower classes and I still don’t believe it’s fair and balanced to solely depend on and argue for, “personal responsibility” when there is a hierarchical system that affords people different privileges and obstacles.
          I guess we just have different priorities.
          Take care

        2. mommypino says:

          “ PS Thank you Mommypino you seem sensitive and logical and truly empathic.”

          Thank you Kiki! Yes that’s me! Sensitive, logical and empathic. I would never behave like some of these ladies do. Anyway, I will not be responding to them anymore. They need to win more than I do. Sometimes you just have to let the dogs 🐶 bark lol. Take care Kiki! ❤️😘

          1. Witch says:

            What I’m seeing is that everyone is passionate about their perspective.
            One person called some people 50’s house wives another person said I’m a prissy middle class woman (which could be further from the truth) because they didn’t like how I responded to misinformation.
            This is just what occurs in heated debates.
            It’s not the first time and won’t be the last and it’s not necessary an indicator for levels of emotional Empathy in individuals

          2. mommypino says:

            Witch, that is your opinion.

            I wish Kiki all the best.❤️

          3. MommyPino says:

            Witch, that is your opinion.

            I wish Kiki all the best. ❤️

        3. lisk says:

          If you have not read up on The Karpman Drama Triangle, you will find there exactly what you are talking about here.

          Along with HG, it definitely helped me stop being victim/rescuer/persecutor, and take responsibility for myself in and get out of these roles, and take self-responsibility and go No Contact.

          It is my understanding that one can always GOSO when dealing with someone who wants to get you into the triangle. GOSO strikes me as ultimate self-responsibility.

          1. Witch says:

            That’s all well and good when we are talking about a random narc trying to be your friend or lover but it’s a bit different when we are talking about collective oppression and you’re given the option of voting for one narc over the other who both hate you. It’s a sick a joke.
            There are people here who think this is only about one individual called George Floyd when it’s about a series of events and conspiracies designed to keep certain people at the bottom.

          2. lisk says:

            ALL power is designed to keep someone at the bottom. That is basic Foucault.

            What’s surreal right now is how people are allowing themselves to feel guilty or ashamed for having power in the first place.

            This makes me wonder what other ruling societies have had their power attacked via psychological means rather than by all-out physical war.

          3. Witch says:

            If all power is designed to keep someone at the bottom, why argue against every dog having their day? Unless you are of the view that certain dogs should remain at the bottom for all of eternity?

        4. mommypino says:

          Kiki, I have just read that you said you are leaving the blog. I say follow your instincts. If things are getting to toxic for you, listen to what your body is telling you. Take care and it has been a pleasure reading your comments. You’re a very intelligent person, fearless and has an independent thinker. ❤️❤️❤️

          1. mommypino says:

            *Correction, I was going to say has an independent mind but changed to an independent thinker hence the grammatical error. Take care and thank you! ❤️❤️❤️

        5. mommypino says:

          Kiki, I wrote you a comment after I found out that you are leaving but I don’t know if it didn’t get approved or just under moderation. Anyway I will try again. I just want to say thank you for speaking your mind. I love when I see someone who can think for herself. You are amazing, intelligent and fearless. Take care always. ❤️❤️❤️❤️

          1. Kiki says:

            Hi Mommypino

            Thank you , I still read the blog but decided I had to step back from the posting about such an uneasy topic .
            My last posts were when I had too much wine and called Witch a prissy middle class woman .Not great choice of words and embarrassing to be
            honest .
            I’m here to read about narcissism and learn from HG and my fellow posters but I got really distracted .

            Anyway if you see this much thanks and love to you also .You are very balanced , open minded kind and sweet person .


          2. mommypino says:

            Hello Kiki,

            I’m so happy to read your comment! I feel the same way about avoiding on commenting on really hard issues that we cannot solve with debates here anyway. I’m focusing on what I came here to learn about which is narcissism. Thank you for your kind words and I can say the same thing about you as well! 💖😊

      2. wildviolet22 says:

        Kiki- I’m with you on the anti-social behavior.

        Not sure if I can post a photo here, but if you google “power & control wheel”, it gives you a visual of tactics abusive people use. I’m sure if a loved one told a person that’s what was happening to them at home, the person would be told it’s abusive and to leave :/. Funny how many of the same tactics are currently being used on a grand scale, and the behavior is being justified.

        I personally think it’d be a good idea for people to put down the media and social media for a while, and to spend some time reading books like 1984, The Crowd; A Study Of Social Mind & Propoganda. I’d be happy to see those books be required reading in schools. :/

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Ahem, you missed out some crucial reading in your list there WV22!

          1. wildviolet22 says:

            Well, in addition to your articles and books, of course! 🤗

          2. HG Tudor says:


          3. Violetta says:

            Some of those mid-rangers wouldn’t get it–teachers as well as students. I’d love to make “Seven Truths About Narcissistic Friendships” required reading for Elementary Education majors, but they’d use it to make things worse, if they could.

            I remember in Jr. High, our Shakespeare demotivator (can’t call that one a teacher) did such a job on Romeo and Juliet, I thought I hated Shakespeare until senior year of high school, when I finally got a good teacher.

            Example: we’re discussing the scene in which Lord Capulet tells Juliet she can beg, die, or starve in the streets if she won’t marry Paris. In the Zeffirelli film, which I’d seen the year before and loved, he throws her around the room.

            Me. Killjoy drones on and on about how “they could do that to you, in those days,” completely ignoring the fact that plenty of kids were getting whaled on at home, got tossed out of the house, a few had been in juvie, etc., and if there weren’t any forced marriages, there were undoubtedly molestations or attempts at such, including the English teacher in the same school who wanted me to.stay after school with him and read That Book By Nabokov.

            Meanwhile, when we watched the Zeffirelli movie and Ms. Killjoy scolded the guys for snickering during all the lovey-dovey stuff, she completely ignores the fact that during the scene where Thybault tries to force Romeo into a confrontation, even the worst thugs in class got deadly quiet. They didn’t know that “villain” meant white trash, not the bad guy with the mustache tying Sweet Sal to the railroad tracks (and Ms. Killjoy didn’t know it herself, so she couldn’t use it as a “teachable moment”), but they knew he was being dissed and would be branded a coward if he didn’t defend his reputation. Naturally, Ms. Killjoy made no effort to discuss that scene with people who could have taught her quite a lot about it.

            Can just imagine what my 4th and 5th grade teachers would have done with the “Narcissistic Friendships” article. They already broke up God knows how many friendships with their Group Work, or isolated kids like me almost completely (when they weren’t putting us in a position to be preyed on by class sociopaths, who would pretend to be our friends in front of Mrs. Meddling Monster if we would do thus-and-so in return), unless they were able to make friends with at summer camp or kids who went to other schools.

            And adults wondered why I gravitated to kids who’d transferred to our school after bring tossed out of parochial school for punching a Sister.

      3. Coffee54 says:

        BLM and ALM and the LGBT movements are actually all funded by a narc, George Soros. Create chaos then offer a solution. Hegelian Dialectic.

        Haha one of my Cerebral Nex’s taught me the term Hegelian Dialectic lol. He studies psychological warfare and subversion for fun. I have read some of the best books because of him.

        He always said he wasn’t good with words. Recently, I corrected him and told him that I’ve always understood him perfectly fine. He just has a deficit with applying EMOTION to words.

        Mask carousel

        I thought he was soooo smart that he always paused and was careful and considerate before he spoke, as to not offend.

        DAMN, how was I missing every red flag 🚩

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Could you provide some credible evidence for your opening sentence?

          1. Coffee54 says:


            Proof he is a narc:
            He went on record to say he is a god

            “I fancied myself as some kind of god …” he wrote. “If truth be known, I carried some rather potent messianic fantasies with me from childhood, which I felt I had to control, otherwise they might get me in trouble.“ When asked by Britain’s Independent newspaper to elaborate on that statement, Soros doubled down: “It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.“

            He has his own personal theory on “Reflexivity,” which can be found here

            The concept of reflexivity needs some further explication. It applies exclusively to situations that have thinking participants. The participants’ thinking serves two functions. One is to understand the world in which we live; I call this the cognitive function. The other is to make an impact on the world and to advance the participants’ interests; I call this the manipulative function. I use the term ‘manipulative’ to emphasize intentionality.

            The two functions connect the participants’ thinking (subjective reality) and the actual state of affairs (objective reality) in opposite directions. In the cognitive function, the participant is cast in the role of a passive observer: the direction of causation is from the world to the mind. In the manipulative function, the participants play an active role: the direction of causation is from the mind to the world. Both functions are subject to fallibility.

            When both the cognitive and manipulative functions operate at the same time they may interfere with each other. How? By depriving each function of the independent variable that would be needed to determine the value of the dependent variable. The independent variable of one function is the dependent variable of the other, thus neither function has a genuinely independent variable – the relationship is circular or recursive. It is like a partnership where each partner’s view of the other influences their behavior and vice-versa.

            Lack of an independent criterion of truth
            If the cognitive function operated in isolation, without any interference from the manipulative function, it could produce knowledge. Knowledge is represented by true statements. A statement is true if it corresponds to the facts – that is what the correspondence theory of truth tells us. But if there is interference from the manipulative function, the facts no longer serve as an independent criterion because the statement may be the product of the manipulative function.

            Consider the statement ‘It is raining.’ That statement is true or false depending on whether it is, in fact, raining. And whether people believe it is raining or not cannot change the facts. The agent can assess the statement without any interference from the manipulative function and thus gain knowledge.

            Now consider the statement ‘I love you.’ The statement is reflexive. It will have an effect on the object of the affections of the person making the statement and the recipient’s response may then affect the feelings of the person making the statement, changing the truth value of his or her original statement.”

            This shows how he introduces two opposing views, creates conflict, and because reaction is based off another, off another, and so on, and so forth…it creates Hegelian Dialectial. (He also uses Marxism Dialectial theories and loves quoting him)

            This theory is also published in the Journal of Economic Methodology

            When applying sociology philosophy and funding “social crisis events,” you can see that George Soros likes to measure his control groups and analyze the outcomes, regardless of free thinking by the people.

            Here is George Soro’s Open Foundation US Board Meeting from 2015


            Many plans to manipulate and influence economy, state of political affairs, police brutality, incarceration amongst black people in MD, plus so much more

            Here is an article showing Soro’s intereset in LGBQT and funding…in Russia though, becuase I am getting long winded here lol. PLZ dont ask for USA tonight lol

            Here is the study he did

            I am on the Securities Exchange Commission website looking at companies filed under his CIK number for the Soros Fund here:


            I will have to come back later and finish becuase I was actually doing something else lol

            I will find the Prospectus for whatever holdings company he uses to fund these groups I mentioned, just not tonight.

            But thanks for challenging me on my statements. 🙂

  20. Alexissmith2016 says:

    I’m completely in love with Tony Benn ❤️Ahhhhh sigh!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      So transparent!

    2. Narc noob says:

      Hello Alex2016, just wanted to say hi. 👋

      For some reason your gravator is underlined in another thread so I was thinking you might see this *reply* this time. I’ve posted a few elsewhere but like me you might not have set your account up to receive them.

      Hope you are well.

  21. kel says:

    I always run back here every time a wolfy narcissist crosses my path, for a safe-place and a little refresher. I just want to add that every time I see that face for America you’re being conned, it makes me think that I’m looking at HG, just from the little I’ve seen of HG on IG, it just looks like I’m looking at his face – not sure if the chin and jawline is that prominent on HG, but to me the rest is close to what I’m picturing him as.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You’re not the first person to have made that observation

    2. Violetta says:

      The ears.

  22. Another Cat says:

    “What if there was a statue of a man who had also been known to rape and mistreat women – wouldn’t we demand it be torn down?”

    Yes we would.

  23. NarcAngel says:

    Who is on this committee that decides what statues are offensive and to whom?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I believe it consists of self-appointees NA.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Yes, and self-appointees are the problem. If those referred to as hate groups decide to start tearing down things they are offended by, how would that go over?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          What do you mean by “how would that go over” Na (other than the statues would go over on their sides!)

          1. Violetta says:

            At least one man is in the hospital after part of a toppled statue fell on his head.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Which part fell on his head? I need to know.

          3. Renarde says:

            And which head?

            Now that’s the point I need to know!

          4. NarcAngel says:

            I mean would those who justify the toppling of statues according to what offends them (In this case BLM ) and deciding for others what should be removed or preserved think it okay if white supremacist groups starting taking down statues of MLK and Harriet Tubman because it offends them and their beliefs? I can already hear the howls of indignation that it’s not the same thing…

          5. HG Tudor says:

            Valid point NA. As always, it comes down to a matter of perspective and where the majority perspective lies.

          6. Violetta says:


            Video here. I’m not sure, but it looks like a head-butt:


          7. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you Violetta.

            The statue had the last word it would appear. Clearly a narcissist.

          8. Renarde says:


            I hadn’t appreciated the Confederate statues were also coming down.

          9. Violetta says:

            Any statues of Charles I or Cromwell coming down? Y’all had your own Civil War.

            And then there’s Empress Maud vs. King Stephen.. .

          10. HG Tudor says:

            Ours was typically English, almost polite. Defeated forces were often allowed to march away from their positions with their weapons. All very civilised which is interesting for such a warlike nation. Clearly we prefer an external enemy to the enemy within, real or imagined.

          11. FYC says:

            “Clearly we prefer an external enemy to the enemy within, real or imagined.”

            HG, Wise observation and interesting that the same statement can be applied to a person as well.

      2. SMH says:

        It really doesn’t matter what anyone on here thinks about it all anyway. The statues are coming down and the Confederate flags banished. The vast majority of Americans support the protests and a lot of people believe the tide is turning.

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          I think that first sentence says it all. One reason I haven’t commented further on this thread.

          ‘The Vast Majority’ … I wonder how many people have been cowed into silence? Quite a few I would imagine. And voices that are trying to heard are shot down in an instant. Cut off. Made to pay. Lose their jobs, hounded out of positions, forced to back down. It would take the strength of David against Goliath to offer up an opposing opinion. Most people don’t have that strength. And the light of faith has gone out in many as well.

          This is what I take from your comment.

          There is an element of bullying occurring on a global scale which seeks to silence the dissenter. This, to me, does not represent democracy which we have been fortunate to enjoy in our Western civilization. Where people in Communist countries are forcibly censored, we self censor in order not to ‘offend’. Someone has definitely conned us.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            I am interested in what amounts to “the vast majority” and how that has been calculated.

        2. SMH says:

          Polling that’s been done, HG. I think something like 70% support. Of course polls are not always accurate but that looks like a pretty sizable majority.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you for clarifying, SMH.

          2. SMH says:

            You are welcome, HG. I try not to make broad claims without something to back them up. Here is some data if you are interested.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            I am appreciative of data.

          4. mommypino says:

            HG, Just for the sake of accuracy, It wasn’t 70% support for the protests. The survey by Civiqs according to the article is that there’s 53% support for the Black Lives Matter Movement. The 76% was from a different poll, it was from Monmouth University where they found that 76% of Americans consider racism and discrimination a “big problem”. If I was asked that question I would also say yes, I do recognize it as a big problem but I only support peaceful protests.

          5. lickemtomorrow says:

            Another issue with polling is the type of questions that are asked. These may help to sway the outcome. Just a thought.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Absolutely. They often apply the consistency bias.

          7. SMH says:

            Jeez you folks just do not want to believe that things could be changing without your approval of either what is changing or how. Polls are imperfect but five thirty eight is a good site and polls are the only tool we’ve got. How’d you like all the white right wing violence in Central London against the police and press today, HG? Convinced yet that maybe white people are part of the problem?

          8. Mercy says:

            SMH, I would have agreed with you on polls until Trump hired John McLaughlin to denounce CNNs poll. Now I’m back to believing everything is data manipulation.

          9. Renarde says:


            Of course we are part of the problem.


          10. SMH says:

            Lol Mercy. Of course Trump knows a fact when he sees one.

    2. kel says:

      Taking a guess it would be the people who are offended, and the committee seems to be the protesters currently beheading them and tossing them into lakes.

      Why should we have statues from our Civil War from the losing side? They sought to divide our country, and they lost, so what are we honoring them for?

      1. NarcAngel says:


        Isn’t it individual perspective whether the statue is viewed as honouring something/someone or simply representing a period in history?

        1. kel says:

          No. Not in this case it isn’t. It’s been 160 years since the civil war, and southern rednecks still carry around the confederate flag like it’s something holy. Something in a museum is history represented. A statue outside is honoring someone and what they stood for. It’s time to move on.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Hello Kel, any views on the flying and reverence given to

            1- The Ikurrina Flag
            2- St Piran´s Flag
            3. Gadsden´s Flag
            4. The Hong Kong Independence Flag
            5. The Breton Flag
            6. Republic of Texas Flag
            7. The Cabinda Flag
            8. The Patani Raya Flag
            9.The Rotuma Flag
            10. The Esterlda Aragonesa?

          2. kel says:

            Nope. Redneck comes from a Scottish term you know about being rebellious. The Civil War statues and flag are Not a thing of the past for us. They keep it all alive, and that’s the part that needs to stop. By the way, most of those statues were already slated to come down. As for Texas, well ditto I guess. We’re either the United States or we’re not. The North won, they allowed the South to put up those statues, and now it’s run its course.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            “Not a thing of the past for us.” You appear to believe that the referenced flags are to do with the past. You might want to speak to some of the people associated with the flying of those flag, I have little doubt they will gladly remedy your error.

          4. kel says:

            That’s exactly what I was saying, it’s Not history, it’s very much present day, and that is why the statues and the whole concept needs to come down and stop.
            As for Texas, they’re very proud, and there’s nothing wrong with being proud of your state. But I’m just saying the Civil War is over, the Confederate Flag and the Statues belong in a museum, as History. Not as still alive. Because it’s damaging, it’s offensive, and it’s counterproductive.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            You’ve misunderstood

          6. Renarde says:

            So Kel you have misunderstood there.

            Personally, I’m not big flag flyer and generally, the flying of say the flag of the Union or St George are not usually ran up flagpole as on our front law. That’s just a difference between our two cultures btw, not a value judgement.

            But I think the point is here that one party might percieve the flag as offensive but the way it represents to other parties might encompass some of that but probably meaning much more. An expression of identity.

            It’s not for me to say in your argument as I can never know.

            Heres one.The flag of the Romani called The Patrin. White, largely middle class people may not like that one when it hoves into view. As the Rom and Travellers are subject to strong, racial abuse. Surely they have a right to express their cultural and racial identity?

          7. Renarde says:

            Gawd, awfully typo at the beginning there!

            So Kel = Soz Kel

            Otherwise, its sounds like I’m about to interrogate you!

          8. Kel says:

            The civil war freed the slaves when the North won. A hundred years later in the 1960’s, there was heavy protesting that created the Civil Rights Movement and laws protecting African Americans. Now, another 50-some year’s later, we’re protesting again, because police are murdering African Americans over a fake $20 bill that he might not have even been aware of. The confederate flag is about racism. The south tried to divide from America during the civil war to avoid paying taxes and to keep their slaves and so the rich plantation owners could get richer. Nowadays it’s about white supremacy. I don’t really understand why there’s a disagreement about why the confederate flag and white supremacy is wrong. I’m not home now, I don’t really have anything else to say, I just didn’t expect this reaction.

          9. SMH says:

            Kel, Well said. I agree with everything you just wrote, but you know that.

          10. NarcAngel says:

            Hi Kel

            Any opposition I have is in relation to HOW these things are being toppled and removed.

            Arbitrarily and unlawfully having their worth and purpose decided by by a few who act in moments high on emotion and with little to no thought of others outside of their own agenda.

            The very same reasoning and actions that I believe lead to George Floyd’s death.

          11. kel says:

            Hi NA,
            I understand your point, but I think the protesters removing them is in conjuncture with the states plans for removing them. I haven’t heard of any police clashes over their removals. I’m under the impression they’re acting mindfully and not with heated emotions to basically cut through the red tape and get the task done. I’ve only heard governors express concern that the protesters allow the states to do it safely so no one gets hurt.

          12. kel says:

            Oh here we go, now we have armed citizens in one state guarding a civil war monument representing racism. Same people who insist that “All lives matter” ignorant to the significance of why black lives matter particularly at this time. Wonder then what they’re carrying those guns for? Apparently statues matter more than lives. How is it the last people who should have guns, have guns- the ones with the worst tempers. The ones that are narcissistic. This white supremacy vigilante does seem a bit heated and above the law.

        2. lisk says:


          It is.

          Maybe some slimy anti-semites slither into Auschwitz-Birkenau to see how it was once done, but overall, remnants of the concentration camp remain for a very good reason. And most of the survivors agree with that reason.

        3. Witch says:

          As far as I’m aware the street statues in Britain is honouring the person and how they contributed to the country and we know that slave trading contributed significantly to the economy so we know what those statues mean and represent and that’s why they are being removed. I am British and this is not an issue for me and I doubt it will be a issue for the majority of people who didn’t even know who those people were. In fact the removing of the statues probably got more people to research British history than having the statues there.

          1. SMH says:

            With you on that, Witch. I sure did not know who Colston was, though I guess a lot of people in Bristol did.

      2. Mercy says:

        Kel, “They sought to divide our country, and they lost, so what are we honoring them for?”

        Should we remove the American flag? Our country is divided now.

        1. SMH says:

          Robert E. Lee’s descendants are all over the news. They, along with descendants of Stonewall Jackson and Jefferson Davis, are all in favor of removing memorials to the confederacy. They have some interesting things to say including that if you look at the historical documents from the period of the memorials’ erection, the justification is clearly white supremacy. They need to come down. The American flag is an attempt to unite, not to divide. Division only serves the interests of the ruling elites and those who can hang onto their coattails.

          1. lisk says:

            “Division only serves the interests of the ruling elites and those who can hang onto their coattails.”

            You sure got that right.

          2. Mercy says:

            SMH, I understand what you are saying. I’m coming around to it after reading more about the history. As far as the flag and what Kel said it just made me think we are more divided then we’ve ever been. I remember when Colin Kaepernick took a knee during the national anthem in 2016. He was peacefully trying to bring attention to police brutality and was ridiculed by so many people saying he was disrespecting the flag. The man literally gave up his career because he felt so strong about the message he was trying to convey. I have a lot of respect for what he did. He was alone in his protest and only a few had the courage to kneel beside him during that season. Now everyone around the world is taking a knee. Even the NFL has apologized for not listening. If people would have listened back then maybe it wouldn’t have to be this brutal.

          3. SMH says:

            Agreed, Mercy (and Kel). I wasn’t there when all of the Kaepernick stuff was happening but I am happy to see the changes. I think the US is basically a liberal country but progress is slow because of US history and because of the complex political system – state and federal law, Congress and SCOTUS, etc. I admire people who can put pressure on public opinion and those who can navigate the political system to get things done.

          4. SMH says:

            Oops I meant lisk but I think I wrote kel. Sorry lisk!

        2. Presque Vu says:

          Mercy! Total agreement and I have a mixed race son! A son who has been stopped and searched for no other reason than the colour of his skin in London. They were good police, doing a job, I’m thankful they were. Or he could be a tragic statistic BUT…

          The world has gone fucking mad!
          History is history, it’s happened.
          It shapes us all.
          In history there is victory over adversity, as well as oppression.
          We live, we learn, some say Winston Churchill was a racist, he was certainly a love/hate figure who was both bad and good! But to deface our history, to tear down ANY trace of racial injustice is fucking stupid. My inter-racial son thinks it’s fucked up! Why eliminate history? History is what we learn from, it’s how we show future generations of times gone by, ideals gone by, prejudices gone by, and what’s not acceptable now. One bad fucking narcissistic cop, herd mentality and overall truly bad policing is what’s really wrong. Never before has it been more important to weed out the bad eggs in policing and government powers. I have a very high ranking police official in my family, we are all of the same thought. It’s a bad group of law enforcement individuals amongst a mass of highly effective and decent officers. Personally I believe the police unions have a lot to answer for, they protect the bad eggs. It’s time to override their power. Personal opinion.

          1. lisk says:

            I would love to override inner-city teachers unions. Many, if not most, of these teachers do not train students to critically think, let alone teach how to arrive at the answer for 2+3.

        3. Kel says:

          The South sought to divide our country -means that the Southern states declared war on America and tried to leave America and form their own separate country during the Civil War. I was saying why are we honoring the generals of that war with those statues anyway since they sought to literally divide our country into two. I agree that Trump’s term has made the country feel divided, but we’re not. That’s the beauty of the protesting, that despite the pandemic, we’re all united, every race and gender.

  24. SMH says:

    HG, Then some people here are basically defending narcissistic manipulations or not seeing them for that they are, and insulting other people for seeing toppling the statue of a slave trader as the equivalent of going no contact.

    1. SMH says:

      Witch (I am having a really hard time with the reply function), I think what HG is saying is that we have to learn to identify exploitation and discrimination as products of narcissism. But I am not sure what one should do about it – how would knowing what it is help in a life or death situation? It’s not as if George Floyd could have gone no contact. HG, how should we be thinking about this to handle individual situations as well as collective oppression?

      1. HG Tudor says:

        1. If you do not know what you are dealing with, you will make mistakes. You are all familiar with the mistakes you made (and some continue to make) with regard to your individual situations involving narcissists.
        2. You are correct that exploitation and discrimination are products of narcissism and are maintained by narcissists and others as explained in the article that this thread appears on.
        3. Liken it to treating a disease. An individual presents with certain symptoms and you think that it is Disease A, when actually it is Disease B. You try treating it as Disease A. The treatment fails (or makes the situation worse), so you try a different treatment (but not the right one). Unless you understand you are dealing with Disease B and what that requires, you are not going to be able to deal with it.
        4. Accordingly, it is fundamental that people realise that so many behaviours are caused by narcissism and not other things which are mistaken labels and explanations. Until people understand this and apply it, they will make repeated mistakes, for instance, expecting someone to see they are behaving wrongly when they are incapable of doing so or expecting someone to take responsibility when they are incapable of doing so, or expecting someone to be able to see your point of view so you keep trying to convince them when it is futile.
        5. Once you know what it really is you are dealing with, then you can take the appropriate action. What might that action be? It is, naturally, look to your own defences and apply no contact. The abusive partner? Leave. The rude customer who can never be satisfied? Stop dealing with them. The interfering and controlling parent? Stop spending time with them. The nasty neighbour? Move house or at least do not interact with them. The bullying boss? Get a different job or follow the steps in How To Handle a Narcissist at Work. The online bigot? Do not interact with him or her any longer. The vocal racist in the bar? Ignore them. The officious bureaucrat? Use an alternative channel. Too often people in these situations declare “I cannot go no contact” but you can, there is always the option, it may require difficult steps, it may feel uncomfortable, but it can be done.
        6. As I repeatedly advise people, if you need to cause an outcome and there is a legal route available to you, use that. So, the individual in the street who keeps haranguing you, do not waste your time trying to ask him to leave you alone, either get away for him or call the police and have him dealt with. The narcissist who owes you money? Do not think you can persuade him to pay you, either forget about it and write it off or go to law and sue him.
        7. Collective oppression. I will be writing about this.
        8. No, George Floyd could not have gone no contact with a police officer’s knee on his neck, but there might have been steps that could have been taken prior to this which might have avoided that scenario. I accept in some limited situations, such as the one GF found himself in, the window of no contact has gone, although it will have been open prior to that.
        9. Stop getting distracted by thinking something is x, when it is actually n. Recognise it and you will then stop wasting money, time, energy, emotion and goodwill trying approaches a, b , c, d etc which fail and leave you broke, hurt, frustrated, confused, upset and so forth. There will be some intractable situations but know this, there are far more situations you can avoid, resolve (through the application of no contact), turn to the law and therefore achieve the best outcome for you, than there are not.
        Stop being conned. Know what you are dealing with. You can then formulate the most effective response.

        1. autiempath says:


          1. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you, AE.

        2. kel says:

          Apparently Floyd and the officer-Chauvin worked together as bouncers in a bar, Floyd worked outside and the Chauvin inside, and I just saw an article that they had some confrontations at the bar with Floyd suggesting that Chauvin was being too rough with the customers. Maybe Floyd’s death was Chauvin getting revenge for speaking up against him at the bar.

          Another thing about your comment HG, is I was just around a kid – or young adult – who was clearly a narcissist who tried to triangulate me and was creating trouble. I really didn’t help matters by telling her, Darling we’re not going to do this, we’re not going there – I did clearly and logically point out the errors in her accusation – but it wasn’t the right way to handle it. I felt the nervous shakiness from having to deal with a narcissist, and I shouldn’t have allowed myself to go there. I’m learning to handle them better and not let them make me emotional and your comment here helps.

        3. SMH says:

          This is great, HG. Really helpful. I can actually see some scenarios where appropriate action can be taken. I look forward to your piece on collective oppression.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome

        4. blackcoffee30 says:

          This is the key to a successful life >>> “Too often people in these situations declare “I cannot go no contact” but you can, there is always the option, it may require difficult steps, it may feel uncomfortable, but it can be done.”

          Every personal development program/seminar/etc. I’ve participated in has advocated moving toward discomfort to achieve success, and I can attest that this has been the case in my life.

          If I am honest with myself if I had endured the discomfort of guilt and fear the first time I tried to escape the N I wouldn’t have been hoovered and ensnared for 6 years.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Empaths are honest. Often that honesty is corrupted by emotional thinking. Your ET has not corrupted it on this occasion.

        5. lisk says:

          Collective oppression? Collectively go No Contact.

          People are all out there right now trying to get each other to change when all everyone is doing is digging in their respective heels.

          Activists. Schmactivists. Reactionaries. Schmeactioneries. All the freaking same. All want control and their own pretty picture of the world–at least the loudmouths on each side anyway. Though there are quieter ones, too.

  25. SMH says:

    Got it, HG. I think people are beginning to wake up about Trump’s manipulations, though of course a lot of people were ‘woke’ from the start.

  26. Another Cat says:

    And these days we’re talking about that one time when Rooney played with a broken toe.

  27. NarcAngel says:

    Haha. I knew you’d pick up on that and almost changed it, but it was Carey’s routine.

  28. NarcAngel says:

    I understand that, and you likely had them before you understood anything was wrong. It’s different when you realize you don’t have much to offer them from the get go though (the experience of a decent extended family for example) or question the likelihood of getting it right when you have no experience or template for success with emotional issues. I question if only knowing what NOT to do as a parent is enough. I don’t know. I have only ever felt responsibility and I know they deserve more than that. I’m glad you were able to work through the nightmare with the focus of your children in mind and that both you and your children have been rewarded with that feeling.

  29. Another Cat says:

    Of course, yes, many hospitalizations among youths and children. And longterm effects.

    This dilemma (people putting themselves in great danger protesting) is mostly cause by that brutal police officer. Narcissist authority personnel have used the isolation of lockdown for months. This one went further than anyone would have thought.

  30. Another Cat says:

    Really appreciate your analysis, and I see that death count was odd.

    One can only hope for many asymptomatic nontransmitted situations this past week. I wonder if the hospital admissions and deaths surge in two weeks as a result from this? I read something about the effect of a superspread crowd situation coming after something like 2 weeks. Don’t really know why people don’t fear the virus more, considering these past months in the world and your quote from Fauci.

    Generally in life I get the feeling most folks are braver than me. One of our ministers suggested all Black Lives Matter should be digital. It’s not a realistic demand in my opinion. Not even in Europe. The brutal killing of Floyd naturally causes reactions in every country. It was just too brutal. Hoping that the social distancing prevails.

  31. truthseeker6157 says:

    TVGO did a great Christmas song too. Can’t remember the name….

  32. NarcAngel says:


    Considering how things went, I’m glad I didn’t say she spooked him. Fuck me. Haha.

    1. Witch says:

      Lmao that would have been a whole mess

  33. Claire says:

    Witch, and this is what exactly Dr Dillon addresses:
    If we could focus on Indigenous people who are living in rural and remote areas and focus on tackling the practical issues they face, having food, being employed, kids going to school, violence and health.

    “We talk too much about the gap between Indigenous and non-Indigenous people. What we should be focusing on is the gap between people like myself and people in remote communities grappling with preventable disease, poverty, violence, those sorts of thing.”

    These are the problems in the Indigenous communities – women and children are subject to horrific ordeals – domestic violence , sexual abuse , poverty. The Government doesn’t want to intervene enough due to the political correctness.
    They throw money but sadly the lack of job opportunity creates a cycle of drug abuse, alcohol abuse, the related crimes.
    And the lefties are using those vulnerable people for their own agendas without offering any practical solutions, any alternative to break the cycle of misery. The few , like Dr Dillon who dare to break it and dare to speak, are labelled as “coconuts” or “ sell-out”.
    More community health centres , more education for the children and real jobs for the parents are needed.
    Few months ago I chatted to a friendly stranger and suddenly he told me he was Aboriginal ( I noticed he was dark skinned in the same fashion as he was a white guy ). I reacted “ Wow, you are truly Australian” . Then he continued “ But you know, I am employed, I have a job, I am a tradie and I build fences “. My heart sank , I realised the prejudice this young man faces every day from the society that because he is an Aboriginal, he must be on benefits and committing crimes.
    We need more Indigenous people like him and Dr Dillon.
    The history should not be forgotten and actual work must be done.
    Honestly, if I had a teaching qualification, I would apply to be a teacher in the remote areas schools.

    1. Witch says:

      I definitely understand what you’re saying and I appreciate it. I think it’s cowardly for a government to accept abuse in their country because they are afraid of being called racist. I support abusive practices becoming illegal and not with the purpose of terrorising certain communities more with the police but to help deter people from engaging in those practices if they are made aware it is now illegal and then it empowers support agencies to reiterate that to the victims that what is happening is wrong and illegal.
      Especially having that said by someone from the same community helps to make a lot of difference.
      Which is why I think a possible solution is to a) make those practices illegal and create protection orders against them and b) fund aboriginal led domestic abuse organisations who agree that those practices should be illegal.
      C) train police officers, social services etc about domestic abuse in the aboriginal community and what they could do to support those victims

      This is the system we have in the UK.

  34. SMH says:

    Another Cat, Think about what you are writing. African Americans are excluded from social groups of friendship. Whose social groups? ‘Most people’ – who is ‘most people’? You are writing as if white Americans are THE Americans and everyone else has to be ‘invited’ to join the party. The way you think is precisely what is wrong with America. You might not mean to be offensive but you definitely come off as offensive.

    1. Another Cat says:

      Absolutely SMH,

      I evidently have expressed it in a wrong way.

      Probably partly because I am not American. How to end segregation I do not know. And I understand that Americans don’t want misguided or badly expressed comments about it, so I apologize. I want to make sure to do what I can to end racism and I guess ET kicked in.

      1. SMH says:

        Thank you for recognizing the language issue, Another Cat. Where are you from? Do you live in the US?

        1. Another Cat says:

          Thank you for asking,

          from Europe, sittning across the pond. While totally agreeing with BLM, we have protests over here as well since last week, two statues removed quite peacefully, I’m fearing that corona will make many end up in hospital. And their older relatives too.

          A neighbour remembering protests in 1968 says that incidently, those also coincided with an ongoing frantic search for a new vaccine: for measles.

          1. SMH says:

            Another Cat, I am also in Europe but I am American. I have been taking part in protests in London. I don’t worry about the virus too much, though I do take precautions. If you are in Belgium, I saw that a statue of King Leopold was removed in Antwerp. A lot of European countries have brutal colonial histories in Africa as well as in the Americas. Slave traders to the Americas came from Spain, Portugal, France, the Netherlands, Denmark and of course Britain. Europe is not an innocent bystander to the current situation.

        2. K says:

          Christopher Columbus got beheaded last night and he has since been removed.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            That’ll have the establishment quaking in their boots.

          2. K says:

            Hahahaha…those rabble-rousers need to up their game!

          3. SMH says:

            lol K, I saw that. Even posted a picture of him headless on FB. My progressive Italian friends are caught in something of a bind. Anyway, Columbus Day was already turning into Indigenous People’s Day in some places, so I guess it was only a matter of time. There is a already a petition going around to rename Columbus Circle in NYC. And what about that statue, which happens to be in front of a Trump property? Perfect place for an insurrection.

          4. SMH says:

            HG, I do know people that are offended and calling it ‘mob rule.’ Things could get ugly, so it’s probably time to stop and do it properly.

        3. K says:

          They interviewed an irate Italian American man (I think he was a lesser) on the news. He said: Italian lives matter.

          The city is rethinking the statue because it has been beheaded and defaced before.

          The Native Americans are not fond of Thanksgiving and I don’t blame them one bit.

          1. SMH says:

            Oh my, K. As I said, progressive Italians are in a bind. Unlike the man on the radio, they are not going to say ‘Italian lives matter.’ Nor do they want to be known for Christopher Columbus. But historically there were derogatory terms for Italians too (dago, wop) and until the early 20th century, Italians especially from southern Italy were not considered ‘white,’ as you probably are aware. The US is such a mess.

        4. K says:

          The US is a mess and there are days when I feel like I live in the United States of Narcissists (that is ET, not logic).

          Locally, I have seen how Sicilians are not well liked/accepted by northern Italians based on the prejudicial language used. Racial derogation (narcissism) is very common is Boston so I have heard it all, just about.

          Lithuanians are sometimes referred to as Lits or Lugans.

          1. Violetta says:

            Sicilians think Florentines are a bunch of snobs; Florentines think Sicilians are insane.

          2. SMH says:

            Never heard that about Lithuanians, K, but here in the UK there is a lot of anti-East European sentiment. In NYC, by the way, there is affirmative action for Italian-Americans. My feeling is that all of this ethnic identity politics is really just a way for the ruling class to divide and conquer. If you can pit people against each other, as Trump does by appealing to ‘whiteness,’ it is easier to control them. What we really need is a raising of class consciousness and a revolution.

        5. K says:

          Labas (hello)! If you want a beer, you can go to the Lith Club but you have to be a member or go as a guest. We need an education revolution re: NPD.

          If you factor in behavior that is indicative of personality disorders, such as, addiction, homicides, gun violence, suicides, car accidents, child abuse, intimate partner/Domestic Violence, school/workplace shootings, preventable disease (lack of accountability), many of my narcissists have diabetes, hypertension, morbid obesity, etc.; the healthcare costs are astronomical (in the billions).

          NPD is more dangerous than Covid-19 or the flu and more costly.

          1. SMH says:

            K, is that a Lithuanian hello? Could be that the people with underlying conditions who are dying from COVID-19 are narcs! Actually, that might not be too far off — narcs are probably less likely to take precautions like wearing a mask.

        6. K says:

          Yes, Labas is hello in Lithuanian.

          Approximately 60% of the deaths in Massachusetts involved the elderly in longterm care facilities but many of those that died in the 30-50 age range had multiple co-morbid conditions, such as, alcoholism, opioid addiction, morbid obesity, hypertension, diabetes or were chronic smokers (cigarette). Bad health due to life choices is a Red Flag.

          Good luck trying to get an addict or homeless person to wear a mask or practice social distancing (You Cannot Control That Which Must Not Be Controlled)!

          1. K says:

            Technically, if those that are dying from Covid are narcissists, then they have absolutely no choice in how they behave. They are hard-wired for addictive behaviors/bad choices.

          2. SMH says:

            K, I was kidding about that connection. If it were true, Trump would be long dead by now. Did you see the news about Melania Trump renegotiating her prenup? Nothing wrong with that per se but the context and the portrait of her suggest that birds of a feather do flock together. HG, is Melania a narc too?

        7. K says:

          If you think about it, risky behavior (entitlement, lack of accountability along with magical thinking, omnipotence and arrogance) can lead to adverse consequences.

          GF had Covid when he was killed.

          1. SMH says:

            K, That is true. I heard that GF had covid but so do a lot of people, many without even knowing it! I saw that NYC got a bit lively over the weekend and they are threatening lockdown again. Sigh. I think there’s only so much a government can do when just talking to a friend in person is risky. Humans were not made to be isolated. That’s why jail is a punishment.

    2. Kiki says:


      Honestly everything offends you get a grip.
      A poster is entitled to say what they think without being dissected to suit your agenda.

      I imagine every Poster here isn’t racist no matter what you may think .You are pointing the finger at a lot isn’t this a bit self righteous and arrogant .

      1950 housewives , people have a RIGHT to behave like a 1950 housewife if they choose.

      Now someone is thinking in a way that causes all the problems in America .Looking at things through your own lens and finding a meaning that isn’t even there.
      That is preaching.
      It’s becoming wearisome .


      1. mommypino says:

        Kiki you have said it perfectly. 🙌

        1. SMH says:

          MommyPino, I have unsubscribed to posts because they are full of your endless drivel. But I don’t try to tell you what you can post. Only HG gets to decide that. If he doesn’t want to put a comment through, he won’t. If you don’t like it, don’t read it!

          1. mommypino says:

            Projecting much? Is that why you left that comment addressed to me about my conversation with another commenter because you don’t read my posts? I rarely read your comments as they are very often illogical, inflammatory and full of emotional thinking. I happened to click on Witch’s comment that got trending so I saw the Karen reference. It’s amusing how you are turning this around when you’re the one who went on your faux outrage attacking me and the other commenter about the way that we said something. Anyway, I have no time for you. I just love the way Kiki totally nailed your behavior. Bye! 👋

          2. mommypino says:

            The housewives was directed towards the commenter that I was having a conversation with and the Karens were directed towards an unnamed group of commenters that you didn’t agree with. You also left a comment directed towards me specifically with my name on it.

          3. Mercy says:

            Haha SMH, I wonder how far I could have taken the Karen thing. I love how everyone was so polite and didn’t say anything against it. Karen’s are people too!!

      2. Mercy says:

        Dear Kiki,

        “A poster is entitled to say what they think without being dissected to suit your agenda”

        This could be said to you as well.

        1. MommyPino says:

          Mercy, Except that Kiki was not the one calling some commenters Karens or saying that commenters are acting like 1950s housewives just because a commenter happened to express herself the wrong way.

          1. SMH says:

            Oh is that the problem? The Karen/housewives comment? Sorry everyone. I thought it was funny but I guess not! However, it is interesting how some people thought it was directed at them when it was not. Hmmm.

          2. Mercy says:

            MommyPino you are right. We should overlook Kiki’s aggressive comments towards the people who don’t share her views and focus on Karen. I for one am appalled and offended for every woman around the world who’s name is Karen. 

          3. mommypino says:

            I agree with your last sentence. And I’m appalled to every woman whose being called a Karen instead of their real names just because they don’t have the same opinion. You will notice that HG has used the same tactics to hurt his former girlfriends by calling them someone else’s name.
            By the way, you are using the same defense that you have criticized me about.
            SMH is rude.
            Well Kiki is rude too!
            Not addressing your friend’s behavior.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            No, it is not the same tactic.

            I used a different name to triangulate them with someone else.
            The use of “Karen” is a pejorative term for a type of person. It is a label. It is similar to calling some a “Park Avenue Princess” or “a Darren (UK insult)” or “a Sharon (UK insult)”. The label denotes a set of behaviours associated with someone unpleasant/stupid/unlikeable.

          5. mommypino says:

            Ok, you’re right. But it’s still terrible to replace ones name with another name that has all of those bad behaviors associated with it. And like Mercy said, I feel bad for anyone whose name is Karen. So thankful that it isn’t my real name.

          6. Mercy says:

            MommyPino I was being sarcastic about the Karen movement. I was trying to illustrate that you missed the point of my original comment. Both SMH and Kiki are entitled to their opinion. I did not say rude I said aggressive. They both passionately believe in their opinions. I find it interesting.

          7. Kiki says:

            Thank you Mommypino


          8. mommypino says:

            You’re welcome Kiki! And thank you for speaking up!

          9. alexissmith2016 says:

            I’ve heard of Sharons and Darrens not Karens! intersting, every single person I know called Karen is how you describe!

          10. Violetta says:


            Okay, I know some of those, but I’m not sure about the others.

            Park Ave Princess: any character in Plum Sykes’ Bergdorf Blondes.

            Karen: entitled middle-class woman, usually white, often divorced mother in 30s/40s with blonde streaks in her graduated bob.

            Sharon: Not hostile like a Karen, but dim and vulgar, per “Sharon and Tracy”? (There was a UK TV series.)

            Darren: ? No clue

          11. Mercy says:

            Don’t forget Felicia

          12. SMH says:

            Thank goodness, Mercy. I laughed when I first read it but then I wasn’t so sure. I have a friend named Karen who posts funny memes about it all the time. She even has the haircut!

          13. SMH says:

            Don’t forget Becky and Chad.

          14. Violetta says:


            And Stacey. Because Chad might settle for a Becky when he’s between Staceys, which means nobody does the Incels.

          15. Violetta says:


            So would you clarify Sharon and Darren? I think I know Sharon, if it’s a reference to Birds of a Feather, but Darren I don’t know at all.

          16. SMH says:

            Hahaha Violetta. A lot of the white supremacist types are incels

        2. Kiki says:

          Hi Mercy

          I never mocked any posters or implied how ones comment might mean something it doesn’t

          I simply stated my opinion about statues, mobs in protests cops,
          and Covid spreading .

          Not everyone will like my opinion and that is perfectly fine we all have our differing opinions.


          1. Mercy says:

            Kiki, some of your comments could be considered mockery. It’s a matter of opinion.

          2. mommypino says:

            I agree Kiki.

        3. MommyPino says:

          Mercy I can’t reply right under your last comment right now.

          I don’t mind SMH and Kiki being passionate with each other, that’s not what I was referring to when I agreed with Kiki’s observation.

          I had a conversation with another commenter and she is from another country and I obviously didn’t grow up here and she said something that sounded bad or offensive. I didn’t notice it so I even added my own thoughts which apparently was offensive as well. SMH called us out and left two comments directed to her and one comment directed to me. That commenter apologized multiple times and explained that she had a faulty perception as an outsider observing the US. I wanted to apologize but because SMH was so rude to me I didn’t. I just said I didn’t mean to offend anyone. Kim E said it’s something she can’t let go and comments like that is what is causing problems. Kiki called SMH out regarding one of the comments that SMH left directed towards that commenter who apologized. Kiki said SMH is finding meaning that isn’t there which is true. My goodness Mercy, I wasn’t even interacting with SMH and there she is going for the jugular against me. That’s why Kiki said a poster (Kiki was referring to the Another Cat) is entitled to post things without getting dissected to fit SMH’s agenda. Kiki was not referring to her debates with SMH as she has been handling that pretty well.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Why did I read that in the voice of Vicky Pollard?

          2. MommyPino says:

            Don’t know who she is and I just googled her HG and that was not a flattering comment at all. 😕

          3. HG Tudor says:

            It wasn’t meant to be, it accorded to the stream of consciousness

          4. MommyPino says:

            HG sometimes when I listen to you I imagine you looking like James Corden’s long lost twin.

          5. MommyPino says:

            HG, I watched her video talk and I can understand why you said that. It was funny. I was just teasing you with the James Corden comment.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            I understand you were, you don’t have to explain but thank you.

          7. SMH says:

            Oh Jeez, there you go talking about me behind my back again MP. AC and I are cool, I think. No worries. Kiki who? What? Never mind.

          8. Violetta says:


            I don’t believe HG meant the pink tracksuit and the Bristol facelift hair. It’s the convoluted explanations of who’s feuding with whom and why:


          9. Kiki says:

            Hi Ladies

            I simply gave my opinion like it or not .
            I am leaving this site now and no I’m not one of those narcs that keeps coming back for another go.

            I feel things are not the way they used to be here before .
            It’s all very aggressive

            Am I aggressive if prodded and pocked yes just the SAME as WITCH and SMH .
            Normally NO I am peaceful but like to look at a bigger picture.
            It is like one has to put up with snide name calling then apologies and laugh it off until it happens again.

            Nothing of real value to learn .
            I have enough in life to deal with than here


          10. HG Tudor says:


            1. You gave your opinion. Here is some news, other people gave their opinion in return. Like it or not.
            2. “It´s all very aggressive”. Actually, no it is not. Set aside your emotional response and use evidence and logic. I will invite you to use some logic. Go and look at some of the current threads, I will help you, you can find them under
            20 Fuelling Admissions
            The Mid Range Narcissist and the Facade
            The Narcissist and Gifts
            5 Myths About the Narcissist
            20 Bullets From the Pomposity Pistol
            Knowing HG – Discussion Forum
            and that is just some of them.
            Go and read them and then provide me with the evidence of very aggressive behaviour on those threads.
            Go further and read more of the hundreds of threads besides those ones and report back with your evidence of very aggressive behaviour on those threads also.
            You will not be able to. Why? Because contrary to your view, prejudiced by your feelings, it is NOT all very aggressive. It is not even sometimes aggressive. The correct answer on the evidence is that there is very occasional aggression and I mean aggression, not passionate debate or emotive responses. The proportion of actual aggressive responses within all responses is miniscule.

            I repeatedly teach you all, and emphasise in consultation, to go to the EVIDENCE. Why? So you see what is happening based on logic, so you respond with logic and so you do not remain trapped by emotional thinking and the downsides that ET causes.

            Accordingly, it is necessary to make this point to you also.

          11. mommypino says:

            Kiki, when I responded to your PS message to me yesterday I wasn’t aware that you were leaving. I regret that I was not able to thank you for being an independent spirit and for being so courageous. I enjoyed many of your comments and they were very logical. I wish you best in anything that you desire to do. Take care and thank you very much. ❤️❤️❤️

          12. Kim e says:

            Is there a reason that you feel you need to do a play by play for people. Get a grip. You have turned this into a soap opera.
            SMH, myself, and anyone else on this blog have the right to state our opinion to whomever and however we like as long as it is with in the guidelines. If you don’t like it take a hard left.
            My comments to Cat were just that…MY comments to Cat. Mine and mine alone. If you did not like them, not my concern. Cat is a full grown adult and I am sure she is quite capable of speaking for herself.
            Whether I except an apology from someone is none of you business either. In my opinion you have turned this link into something that could have been a learning experience….which we all know due to where we are….is not always an easy thing. Things get heated regarding the exchange of ideas. But you have taken this thread from Narcissism, hate and prejudice to OMG HG do you think I am a narc!
            Please do not ever reference me again. And I will do the same.

            HG if this is not within the guidelines, I apologize I am sure you will reprimand and possibly remove it.

          13. SMH says:

            That’s hysterical. Thanks for the link Violetta. It’s ‘all send and no receive.’ Diarrhoea of the mouth is a good way to put it too.

          14. Whitney says:

            Haha Mommypino 😃 I looked up Vicky Pollard and it was so funny. I need to watch more of Little Britain. I love the Australian show Summer Heights High by Chris Lilley, and his other shows. A man depicting all kinds of Narcissistic characters.

            I haven’t followed the conversation, but people are nonsensical when you disagree with the doctrine of their cult.

            You know Floyd held a gun to a pregnant woman’s belly? I’m glad he’s dead. A terrifying menace to humanity. I do understand that the riots are regarding racism and not Floyd specifically.

          15. mommypino says:

            Hello Whitney,

            I thought it was funny too when I saw the video and that’s why I said to HG that I can understand why and I do recognize what I did with my play by play narration. I was already emotional when I got Mercy’s response and I do tend to do a play by play when I am emotional hence my control is not very good and when what happened is being denied. Anyway it doesn’t matter now. Forward is the only way to go. ❤️

            Whitney I have heard that about GF too. I wasn’t aware of it when I wrote my very first comment here calling him a gentle giant and innocent. But I still agree and I’m sure you do too that he was still brutally murdered by Chauvin. I do think though that if someone holds a gun at my pregnant belly I would kill that person right away if I have a means to do it. Love you Whitney. ❤️

          16. Whitney says:

            Hehe Mommypino you have a good sense of humour. I’m jealous, I wish HG would tease me too. The closest is when he says I have ET which is true.
            Everyone here does play by plays, I’ve noticed!

            Oh yes he was brutally murdered and it was not in response to the pregnant woman. But he’s not a sympathetic character or a good figure for the movement.

            I’ve been watching the doc series Trial by Media on Netflix. Amadou Diallo was killed by the police and he was an innocent person. I was crying the whole episode.

            Love you too MP the sweetest!

        4. MommyPino says:

          Violetta, the only Park Avenue Princess I could imagine is Ivanka Trump, and I am imagining it as a compliment. But you already know that I’m biased with that.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Think Charlotte from SATC for PAP.

          2. MommyPino says:

            Thanks HG, What it connotes is much clearer now. It looks like it’s not just the wealth and attractiveness but also the personality.

        5. MommyPino says:

          Also Mercy, for SMH to be offended that I said to get out of our comfort zones is so misguided at interpreting it as anything malicious. I didn’t grow up here in America so pretty much any friendship that I made outside of my immigrant group has been a total getting out of my comfort zone in the beginning. And I would love to join a black church here if there is one but we don’t have one. I have always admired their choir from watching Madea movies.

          1. SMH says:

            There you go again, MP. If I had a dollar for every time you’ve mentioned me on this blog without directly addressing me, I’d be rich!

        6. Bubbles 🍾 says:

          Dear Mercy n lovelies,

          Luv Bubbles xx 😘

      3. MommyPino says:

        Faux Outrage according to Urban Dictionary:

        Pretending one is offended, insulted or generally affronted by something which they really are not. The faux outrage is usually expressed publicly because it is done in the service of an agenda. Those expressing faux outrage usually labor under the delusion that no one can see through them, but most can.

      4. SMH says:

        Then don’t read it, Kiki! It’s a free world!

  35. SMH says:

    Okay, I am going to try to do this politely. MP, that’s a good start getting out of your comfort zone. But African Americans are AMERICANS and not a ‘different’ culture. Why don’t you try going to a black Church? You might enjoy it.

  36. Violetta says:

    This could go just as well under the “Royal Narcissist” series, but I think there’s a nice little connection to all cons being run in the current situation.

    On June 4, Meghan Markle released a well-publicized video address to the graduating class of her high school, Immaculate Heart in Los Angeles. In it, she discussed the protests and her own experiences.

    MM: “I wanted to say the right thing and I was really nervous that I wouldn’t or that it would get picked apart. I realized the only wrong thing to say is to say nothing”

    “We’re petrified of saying too much or saying it wrong. When the truth is, the only wrong thing you can say is nothing at all.”
    – Dialogue from Grey’s Anatomy

    MM: “Immaculate Heart High School, graduating class of 2020. For the past couple of weeks, I’ve been planning on saying a few words to you for your graduation.”

    There appears no evidence that the high school requested any such address. I don’t believe she has claimed it did, but somehow, that idea is implied that she was invited to speak and that was why she was agonizing over what to say..

    The following article appeared in a local L.A. paper:

    JUNE 4, 2020
    Immaculate Heart celebrates students as formal graduation is pending

    Immaculate Heart, which has educated young women in grades 6-12 since 1906 on its campus at 5515 Franklin Ave., has not held a formal graduation this year because of stay-at-home orders due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

    But the school is still planning to honor its class of 2020 at an event later this summer on a date to be determined. Details are still under consideration. Immaculate Heart usually holds graduation ceremonies at the Hollywood Bowl, but was unable this year because of closures.

    Graduating senior Lola Dutcher has been selected as class speaker, representing the 118-member class of 2020. Christine Knudsen, Immaculate Heart’s longtime theology instructor and chair of the theology department, will serve as the commencement speaker. Knudsen, who retired last June after 31 years of teaching at Immaculate Heart, is also the author of “Engaging the Heart: Spirituality for Teenagers,” a handbook on mindfulness with meditations and prayer services for high school theology instructors teaching teenagers.

  37. FYC says:

    “ If you look for long enough, you’ll find that creation and exploitation go hand in hand. Why might that be?”

    HG, Just to confirm, are you intimating that those in power (those with power, money and influence to create) are primarily Ns? They therefore naturally exploit all those they have power over to their benefit (due to a sense of entitlement and grandiosity and lack of empathy)? Thereby creating a legacy, a monument to their power, that will last for centuries? (Never mind the cost to or effect upon the ‘minions‘)?

    1. HG Tudor says:


      The reins of power are invariably held by us. This means there will be manipulation and exploitation. Such is the extent to which we control the narrative, if you embarked on an exercise to purge exploitation from the services, products, goods and influences in your lives, you will not be able to escape the effect and legacy of exploitation and manipulation. From the phone you are reading this on, to the diamonds in the ring on your finger, to the news channel you watch, to the library you borrow books from, the clothes you wear, the car you drive and the coffee you drink.

      1. Another Cat says:

        “The reins of power are invariably held by us.”

        This is for me a sad read. That us empaths and normals are not up there. I interpret ‘invariably’ as you mean that 99 % of rules are narcs? I guess if one can’t manipulate it is extremely tiresome to maintain power. “Lonesome at the top”

        1. HG Tudor says:

          There are empaths and normals “up there” but it is mainly populated by our kind.

          1. Another Cat says:

            I understand.

      2. Witch says:

        Yes HG
        I’ve thought about this a lot, which is part of why I didn’t want to have kids because I felt like I would just be contributing to more exploitation and pain in the world. And also why I feel even my life is mostly an inconvenience

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I understand that perspective concerning children.

          1. Bibi says:

            I also never wanted kids for this reason. I never wanted a kid to feel as lonely as I did when growing up. I never wanted to be that parent who ‘could not relate.’ I am also not good at care giving. Were I a nurse, the patients would be comforting me. I don’t like surprises and messes and kids are filled with that.

            I also think the world and that life in general, is a slog, which makes the thought of bringing another person into it cruel. Many who have them claim it is worth it but I see no evidence of that.

        2. NarcAngel says:

          Many reasons I didn’t have kids, but the top two have to be:

          1. There was no way I was putting a kid in that Game of Thrones.
          2. The cost of child care, ’cause fuck that lot babysitting.

          (Also if they weren’t funny I’d seriously have to consider adopting them out)

        3. StrongerWendy says:

          I get that some don’t want children, but for me having kids is one of the best and most fulfilling things I’ve done. Yes, divorcing the narc when they were little and co-parenting with him was horrific and soul crushing. I believe part of the reason I survived it was because the one thing I could focus on to plow directly through the agony was to be the best parent I could for them because they deserved that (by no means do I handle everything perfectly). I don’t believe in love the way I once did (and there is no love from a narc), but the love I have for my children and the love I experience from them (which I experience as completely different from romantic love) is the purest I have experienced.

          1. lisk says:

            I can totally see that, StrongerWendy.

            Sometimes I feel ready to give up as a person on my own, post-Narcx.

            I do not give up, but I have a sense that sticking around and moving forward would be so much easier and a fuller experience if I had children of my own to be responsible for.

          2. mommypino says:

            StrongerWendy I agree. It’s not for everyone but the purest love anyone can experience is definitely from being a parent. No one has ever loved me like my kids do. Many times I feel that they are the ones leading me how to really love.

          3. Whitney says:

            Mommypino children are so loving. They are born that way 💕 even HG. And then they are heartbroken. Then they become Narcissists.

      3. FYC says:

        Absolutely correct, HG, and thank you for bringing that to light. Very interesting. What accounts for the divergence of peoples perspective on those in power? Awareness?

        1. HG Tudor says:


          1. FYC says:

            Thank you again, HG, for your brilliant insight. This topic could easily warrant a post of its own. It would also be fantastically helpful if this topic were featured broadly in the media, but we both know why it won’t be!

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

        2. NarcAngel says:

          Agreed on the media. That’s why it’s up to those of us who want to raise awareness to share the article where we can. Especially effective now due to current events and preferably before the companion piece HG has planned.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Hg approves.

          2. FYC says:

            Very true, NA, I whole heartedly agree.

      4. FYC says:

        HG, I also want to highlight the greater importance of this part of your response:

        “…we control the narrative,”

        Indeed true, and critically important to realize.

      5. lisk says:

        So, really, when people talk about “systemic racism” they are talking about “systemic narcissism” or even “systemic powerism.”

        And the people complaining about it are complaining about something that will never ultimately change, i.e., there will always be someone in power that is messing with you.

        That’s why “revolution” is such a sham/scam. An endless dialectic.

        The more things change the more things will stay the same.

        1. HG Tudor says:


          1. Witch says:

            Well HG if we are going to be ruled by narcs anyway we might as well shake it up a bit, have more diversity among the narcs.. heck I will submit to some gay black overlords, why not?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Gay Black Overlords? Isn’t that a band?

          3. Witch says:

            I googled it to make sure but all I found was an article titled “the Vaticans gay overlords”

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Ah yes, TVGO, they had a minor hit with “Fondle My Balls and Make Me Pope”.

          5. Witch says:

            LMFAO!!! I read that in your accent and everything
            I’m dying

          6. Violetta says:

            If we’re going to be ruled by narcs, could we please have some intelligent, competent ones instead of lesser thugs and mid-range Cause-of-the-Week types?

          7. Violetta says:

            Fuck the police
            Fuck the police
            Fuck the police
            In the YMCA

          8. HG Tudor says:

            Presumably a construction worker, a Red Indian, a sailor, a leather clad biker and a cowboy are being sought in connection with this sexual assault on a police officer?

          9. Violetta says:


            But they’re looking in the wrong place. The suspects are now all in the Navy.

          10. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha, very good.

        2. Julie Petkovska says:

          Thats correct.. like he said 🙂

      6. Narc noob says:

        Hg, if “the reins of power are invariably held by us” and just a sprinkling of normals and empaths apear at *the top*, how does one GOSO when we continue to encounter your kind, in business and trading? Is there hope of finding those normals to do business or do we need to get better equipped in order to sniff them out?

        Ps. Have found 1 potential business partner, still working through tests to see any red flags.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          1. A professional interaction with a narcissist may be problematic but it does not necessarily mean it will. For instance, you may have a doctor who is a narcissist who gives you excellent treatment and since you have no further interaction with that individual and you do not affect control adversely, no issue arises.
          2. Should a professional interaction become problematic and it is determined that the individual is a narcissist, you apply GOSO utilising my work.
          3. Reduced ET and utilisation of my work, will result in spotting narcissists in those settings at an earlier juncture and so appropriate action can be taken.

          1. Narc noob says:

            Thankyou for a detailed answer.

            I get what you are saying. I am still seeing your kind everywhere, so early intervention is occurring in regards to potential business partners. I guess I need more time though, before I head out to make any more legal contracts.

            I have purchased 4 of your books, I discovered I have done the whole KTN backward. Ha ha!

          2. lisk says:

            Is today any different than another day?

            It seems as if the narcissists on both sides of the power struggle are what the rest of us are caught between.

            It feels like we need to GOSO and there’s nowhere to go.

      7. NarcAngel says:

        Re: being able to escape exploitation from services, products, and goods.

        A Canadian Fucking eh! to that.

  38. SMH says:

    Kim e, I said the exact same thing! Astonishing! Maybe it did not show up exactly as a reply to Another Cat because I am having trouble with the reply function, Anyway, one more reason to love you. Smooches!

  39. SMH says:

    Kiki, maybe that is for Egyptians to decide. The statues we are talking about are nothing special and were made long after the people they memorialise died.

    1. Kiki says:

      True but

      It really is ridiculous, have these people nothing better to be doing with their time than getting offended by statues , and pulling them down.It changes NOTHING.
      For the love of god I cannot get my head around this crazy madness.

      Zero logic in all this .

      1. SMH says:

        Kiki, It makes perfect sense to me and I do not see it as a waste of time so I guess we just see the world differently.

        1. blackcoffee30 says:

          SMH – I agree with this comment (and am currently frustrated by the malfunctioning of the “Like” button).

          1. SMH says:

            Thank you for writing that out, blackcoffee30. I have problems with the reply button so I hope this reaches you!

  40. SMH says:

    Gosh how many times do I have to say it? I’m not dumb and neither are other protestors. Everyone knows about the friggin virus. We’re not living under a goddamned rock. Cops aren’t wearing mask yet they’re spitting all over protestors at the very least. One cop actually tore a protestor’s mask off to whack him in the face. Others were kettling groups of people. Get rid of the fucking cops so people can protest safely

    1. K says:

      Covid is trending down in Massachusetts and I don’t blame people for protesting; they are fed up.

      There is an online petition circulating in my town re: the blatant racism (NPD) in our public schools, which encompasses the faculty and School Superintendents past and present (narcs). The town that I live in is full of narcissists (racists) and corrupt cops (narcissists).

      A week before lockdown I wrote to the Chief of Police, the District Attorney of Norfolk County and my State Rep. about the hidden epidemic of child abuse and bullying in the public schools; no response. I also sent letters to seven churches; no response.


      I wrote to all 7 School Committee Members; no response.

      I wrote to all 5 Selectmen; no response.

      I wrote a Letter to the Editor re: bullying in the public schools and they declined to print it in the local paper.

      Elected officials, school employees and cops don’t give a fuck about child abuse or bullying in my town.

      Fuel and control.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Excellent example.

        1. K says:

          Thank you HG
          I am fed up and I am going to work around it by giving your information directly to the children; the first was a 9-year-old girl who told me her father has BPD and beats her mother.

          1. Narc noob says:

            Speaking of children… can they do the EDC if they are over 10 and we have their permission? Obviously some questions won’t apply.

      2. SMH says:

        Wow, K. Yes, excellent example of official blindness and people wanting power for its own sake (I don’t care if an official is a democrat or a republican – they are all the same). We could fix our problems if the will were there at the top, but it isn’t, though I do have to wonder if the world would be different if women ran it instead of men. As it is, people have to take matters into their own hands. It all kind of makes me understand how people might think that covid is a conspiracy too and a cover for creeping fascism. I definitely feel it here in the UK.

        1. alexissmith2016 says:

          SMH. I dont beleive the world would be better if women ran it (different perhaps) but definitely not better because the narc females would still creep their way to the top. From my perspective a good balance of male and females (narc or not) tends to work better.

          1. K says:

            Now that you mention it, I did read in the NY Times: Why Are Women-Led Nations Doing Better With Covid-19?

            You have a point, Women leaders may provide better health and child care services/family leave and equity in pay and they may be less inclined towards warmongering.

            The Millennials and Gen Z show promise; my Gen-Xers suck!

          2. NarcAngel says:

            Drew Carey does a stand up on how there would be no war if women ran the world.

            “If women ran the world there’d be no war at all. You ever hear that? Yeah I’m sure no one would start a fight for no reason if women ran the world.
            (Puts pretend phone to ear) “Yeah, hi, it’s England, I’d like to know why I’m being invaded”
            (Another country in a snotty voice) “Oh I think you know why”.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            See if you can spot what is wrong with this sentence! Yeah, hi, it’s England, I’d like to know why I’m being invaded”

          4. lisk says:

            There were no phones back in 1797?

          5. Violetta says:


            Because they’d have to speak Latin, Old Norse, and Old French?

            Or because there were all those pocket kingdoms when that was going on?

            OTOH, Spain tried it during the Armada, and that *was* a woman leader.

            Or because by the time the Germans tried it, it was the UK?

          6. Violetta says:


            I’d like to see your comments on the current more-feminist-than-thou war waging among the Harry Potter alumni. Or the more-sympathetic-to-the-oppressed war between Priti Patel and Everybody Else.

            Are we having some kind of Narc nuclear explosion, or are we just seeing it for what it is more clearly?

          7. HG Tudor says:

            You are seeing more clearly. All part of the service.

          8. Mercy says:

            Violetta I was wondering the same thing about narc explosion. Glad you had the same question.

          9. Violetta says:

            And now it is coming out that Anna Wintour was been mistreating her “friends” since adolescence, not just since she took over Vogue.

            DM headline:
            “EXCLUSIVE: ‘Look at her horrible, curly hair.’ Anna Wintour mocked people for their looks even in her teens, former friend reveals and she was called an ‘absolute monster,’ as Vogue editor apologizes in wake of BLM protests”

            She mocked one friend about her weight, gave her lovely outfits, always too small, and deliberately learned to.cook the girl’s favorite foods, then watch contemptuously while she ate them (never eating herself). People may not have known the technical language for what they were seeing, but the girl’s mother recognized that her daughter’s confidence was steadily eroding whenever she spent time with Wintour.

            One former friend said, “She’s a control freak, always had to be in control of herself and everyone else.” I’ve tried to post a referral to “To Control is to Cope”; we’ll see if it makes it past moderation.

            I had a “Friend” like that in Jr. High. You don’t want them for friends any more than you want them for enemies. The best thing to do is stay under their radar, if you possibly can. You are safest if they don’t know or care who you are.

        2. K says:

          It’s all about the power (control). Correct; it doesn’t matter what they “wear”: dem. rep. cassock, habit or uniform. A narcissist is a narcissist; plain and simple.

          Most of the employees that are problematic (Narcissists) are females; the committee and selectmen are a mix. Education is the key and I am not fond of the Boomers and Gen-Xers. Millennials and Gen Z seem to be open to NPD and its ramifications so I direct my energy towards those age groups.

          1. SMH says:

            K, I also have more faith in millennials and Gen Z, especially in Gen Z, I think. Boomers and Gen-Exers are too self-absorbed though I would note that Boomers protested the Vietnam War and marched for Civil Rights. I think it’s young people in general who tend to be more progressive and have the energy to change things, no matter the generation.

            And yes, all (lisk, K, Alexissmith), I am not sure women running the world would do a better job but when you look at the countries that have done well with covid, or at least not done badly, they are mostly led by women (New Zealand, Iceland, Norway, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Taiwan etc) and when you look at the worst ones (the UK, Brazil, the US, Italy, Spain) well whaddya know, men are in charge and in several of those cases, psychopathic men. I do not think it is a coincidence that all the psychopaths are male.

          2. wildviolet22 says:

            Just wanted to add my 2 cents about GenX since I am one. This is just from my personal experience and my observations, and not based on studies or anything, so I don’t know if my way of thinking lines up with others in my age group or not.

            But as a generation, we were latch keys kids, and adults weren’t involved in our upbringing as much as adults today are. I have a friend from school (80s), and we talk about school bullies, and how we never in a million years would have involved adults or a parent (I’m sure some kids did). We handled a lot on our own. In some ways good, in others, not necessarily if you’re getting your advice and guidance from others in your peer group, who are as inexperienced as you are.

            But once the 90s rolled around (earlier part of the 90s was college for me), we started the Political Correctness stuff (see the 1994 movie PC University for a parody of that, which in my option we’ve exceeded in real life). Which originally was supposed to be:
            Be kind to others, get to know a person for who they are and how they think. Don’t assume things about people. No racial or ethic jokes. Get to know a person’s culture (which includes local). Be a decent person. It starts with you. Sort of the opposite of identity politics? When I was in college, we also never would have run a speaker out of a college, if someone showed up who we didn’t like, we just wouldn’t go. Don’t give them any attention. Things like that.

            As people get older, they do oftentimes tend to sway towards the conservative side. But I was watching a millennial aged conservative social issues commentator the other day, with Libertarian leaning views. Now I know Libertarians tend to be individualist types, and tend to do the right thing when no one is looking, and don’t necessarily represent the rest of he population (if anyone is familiar with Enneagram Personality Theory, the majority of people are type 6/ “group” people, which sort of clashes with that kind of mindset). But he was saying, people need to focus back on the self and the individual.

            Which isn’t a popular view point currently, but I know what he means. If you take good care of yourself first, focus on your own health and well being, you can then be in a better place to help others. I’ve had to tell some friends recently, put down the hateful news and the hating on politicians, it’s like mental crack, and focus on you. The hate doesn’t change anything anyways, nor does making decisions when in that state. There’s a virus going around, focus on your own immune system health, exercise, drink a lot of water, go for walks. Read some books.

            Feelings don’t equal facts. Feelings don’t justify behavior. Don’t make decisions when highly emotionally charged. Look at things from every angle, think through how things can possibly play out. Will your “solution” potentially cause 10x more problems. Sometimes leaving things alone for a while is the best course of action.

            That’s just my personal GenX take on things. Maybe not a popular or current type of mindset, but I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad way to be. 🙂

          3. HG Tudor says:

            In essence :-

            1. Look to your own defences.
            2. You cannot help others until you have helped yourself.
            3. Use logic.
            4. Remove emotional thinking.

            Now, I wonder which ground-breaking writer has been advocating for quite some time, that people do this?

          4. wildviolet22 says:

            HG- I think you are absolutely right. And in my opinion, we are living in a grand scale Emotional Thinking explosion, pretending to be a good person means more than actually being a good person, knee-jerk-reaction nightmare

          5. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you

          6. K says:

            Thank you for sharing and personal experience counts. I am a Gen-Xer, too, and my Gen-X “friends” are mostly Narcissists who I don’t see much anymore. My Gen-Xers seem very set in their ways; it’s as if they are incapable of critical thinking.

            The crazy 80s were great!

        3. lisk says:

          The world would not be different if women ran it instead of men. Frankly, I think it would be worse. Maybe because I think they really already run it!

          1. Kiki says:

            Yes weirdly I think women are actually more competitive than men.
            Maybe women had to adapt like this due to the struggle woman have to endure to climb the corporate ladder.

            Ok can only speak for myself but a lot of women in these situations hold no prisoners , many can be viciously backstabbing and ohh the gossip.
            Also women can be more vindictive and sneaky.
            Some men are like that but I think it’s more prevalent amongst women.
            Society has women pictured as these nurturing mother earths but honestly I don’t think that’s exactly true.
            Ever watch the domineering behaviour of an alpha female in the workplace.It can be soul destroying for her targets.
            The fairer sex I don’t think so .

          2. NarcAngel says:

            I’ll consider if the world would be better if women ruled it once they can negotiate being in a wedding party without incident.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha.

        4. Violetta says:

          Mercy, I can’t even read the Daily Mail for fun anymore. Lea Michelle feud with former Glee cast? Narc(s). JK Rowling’s ex? Narc. Jessica Mulroney feuding with influencer? Narc(s). Firings Everywhere from academia to reality TV over alleged speech crimes? Narcs.

          The accusations may be racism, sexism, transphobia, etc., but the real issue for too many is who gets to exert control over others. Any sincere individuals will be drowned out by all the noisy narcs who want to feel superior to somebody, anybody. They’d join the Young Pioneers, the Hitler Youth, the Bacchae, the Spanish Inquisition, or the cast of Riverdance if they thought it would allow them to wield power over others.

          If you’ve ever read children;s classic Harriet the Spy, you may remember a character named Marion Hawthorne who organizes a club against Harriet, but loses members when she can’t stop bossing them around and demanding they do un-sixth-grade-ey things like drink tea and play bridge or mah jong. Harriet has earlier sussed out what Marion is: “If Marion Hawthorne doesn’t watch out, she’s going to grow up into a lady Hitler.” In other words, a narc. (In TudorTerminology, almost certainly a mid-ranger.)

          The Bowling for Soup lyrics were wrong. It isn’t high school that never ends; it’s 5th grade.

          1. Mercy says:

            Violetta, I agree about issues being drowned out by the noisy narcs. In my opinion that is why we are seeing so much violence. Riots are usually caused by real injustices and are often the desperate response of people who feel they have no other option. Violence gets attention. The ones that are not part of the violence want it to stop. In reality, the protesters, the rioters and the people opposed to the riots are on the same side when it comes to choosing a leader. If the person in power continues to ignore the core issues and continues to promote violence, the people will vote for a new leader. It seems simple to me.

            I saw something last night that made me think of you. Probable because you are always posting lyrics. I thought you would appreciate the irony in this.

          2. lisk says:

            Riverdancing narcs . . . oh, the pain.

          3. Violetta says:

            I looked up the lyrics, since my tolerance for listening to Trump is limited.
            It was, of course, written by a black man. There are similar stories passed around by Griots for generations, including one about a scorpion who gets a ride across the river from another animal and stings it so that they both drown. The other animal says, “Why did you do that? Now we’re both going to die.”
            “What do you mean, why? You knew I was a scorpion.”

      3. alexissmith2016 says:

        They don’t actually give a fuck anywhere K and when they do it is only facade management. I used to think that in ‘this day and age’ things had improved, children have more of a voice. But they truly don’t. There is a British film, ‘Three girls’, it’s based on a true story of child sexual exploitation which took place in 2008-2012.. Gangs of men preyed on vulnerable young girls. There were several people from various agencies making a noise (whistleblowers), trying to get action taken against these men. One of them, a sexual health worker lost her job (if my memory serves me correctly). I forget exactly what happened now which caused the police to finally investigate and prosecute some of the men. A truly harrowing film but a real eye opener. I would highly recommend watching this, but perhaps not for any contagions. It’s heartbreaking.

        I imagine that some of these whistleblowers were empaths rather than narcs. In most cases, I agree narcs would be the wb, but I would imagine few empaths who had knowledge of what was going on would be able to turn a blind eye.

        Keep going girl! Don’t give up on this. You could save countless children.

        1. K says:

          I am on it; I can’t give up on the children.

          They really don’t give a rat’s ass; it is heartbreaking and you are correct, when they “pretend” to care, it is all about the facade. Children truly are voiceless.

          I remember that story and I will be sure to check out the film. It will boil my piss watching it but at least I understand it all now.

          Sometimes, narcissists will make a stand against bullying (fuel and control) in the schools but many parents are apathetic unless it directly affects their child.

          There was a Whistleblower law suit filed against the current Superintendent and the Social Worker won his case.

          1. alexissmith2016 says:

            Perhaps one way to handle it would be to appeal to their narcissism and somehow make it about their sense of control being challenged by the abusers (not you) and if you get the right narc, it may just appeal to their sense of superiority. Sad though that we can’t just appeal to their sense of right or wrong, but as we know, theirs is very, very different to our.

            Yes, it’s a three part series but basically a film. The acting is absolutely spot on from everyone. I cried several times watching this and I don’t cry very often. Watching it from the children’s perspective but also the parents, how helpless they are once their child has been successfully groomed. Just heartbreaking on absolutely every single level.

        2. K says:

          They have deployed a Silent Treatment (control), I am persona non grata and I will NOT be returning to the school for any volenteer work again. Getting impaled by the Devil’s Pitchfork is tedious.

          My heart breaks for those children and parents.

      4. Witch says:

        My niece is suffering this. She’s living in a predominately white area of the country. In high school they are bullying her and calling her the N word. The school didn’t do anything about it so my sister pulled my niece out of school because she started becoming so stressed she was loosing her hair.
        I told my sister she can report it to the police because race/ethnicity is a protected characteristic. Probably in those kinds of areas the police wouldn’t even care. But it’s the only other option if the school isn’t doing anything about it.

        1. K says:

          I am very sorry that your niece is going through this. She shouldn’t have to tolerate abuse at school; it’s unacceptable. It is a sad situation all around.

          When the bullying isn’t stopped, the best option is to pull the student out, in this case your niece, and homeschool her. I always recommend homeschooling as a safe alternative to school bullying. She needs to be protected and I hope she is doing better.

          Don’t hold your breath. The police liaison in our public schools has repeatedly downplayed bullying in the past and does nothing to curtail it. The police are useless.

        2. SMH says:

          Witch, I have been helping the daughter of friends who was racially bullied (and sexually harassed) by one of her university lecturers. I pulled up the proper UK laws for her to reference in her statement and helped her write it in legalese (not that I am a lawyer but I can pretend). The powers that be in her dept stonewalled, so she sought out a friend’s attorney mother, who knew a high status dean at the same university. That got results. Your sister should look for an attorney, maybe start among her friends and acquaintances. Sometimes just a threat or making something like this public gets fast results, especially if the school is afraid of being sued. Gotta fight fire with fire. Your niece has a human right to proper schooling without being racially harassed.

          1. Witch says:

            I don’t believe my sister knows any solicitors who would work on her case for free. This is the problem when you don’t have that kind of money you don’t have much chance at justice. And more often than not these institutions know that, which is why they can afford to not do anything.

          2. SMH says:

            Witch, Yes that is a problem. My friends’ daughter didn’t know anyone either and couldn’t afford to pay. She didn’t pay the friend’s mother – that was just for advice. A lot of them will take such cases for free – pro bono – partly because if they sue and win, they get a percentage of the compensation. And there is legal aid. Your sister could also go to Citizens Advice – their website has quite a bit of information about discrimination claims under the 2010 Equality Act.

          3. K says:

            One of the parents had to hire an attorney to keep her son on his IEP (individualized education program). I strongly suspect that the head of Dept. of Special Ed is a narcissist. Once the lawyer showed up, the staff immediately reinstated his IEP.

            Narcissism is expensive.

          4. SMH says:

            True, K. That’s one reason why people need HG’s help with divorces. Expensive and infuriating.

          5. K says:

            Infuriating, frustrating, ridiculous and unnecessary. People need HG’s material now more than ever. The world is a hot mess!

          6. SMH says:

            K, malignant narcs at the top is why. Trump is only one of many.

    2. Kiki says:

      It was never implied you are dumb , I simply stated the obvious.
      Face masks are only a precaution not proper protection in huge vast crowds.

      I stated two facts that are cold hard truth no matter how you justify or slice it.

      1.Ones decisions at this time will impact others regards the transmission of Covid .

      2.The virus will spread Faster in crowds.

      No where did I imply you lived under a rock.


    3. Kim e says:

      I am signed up to get notified of goings on in my town. The last couple of days I have gotten notifications that a group of protesters is gathering at such and such place. Please avoid the area. The police are there to protect the protesters and they walk behind them. The protesters walk so far, drop to a knee for 8 minutes, move on somewhere else drop to a knee for 8 minutes. They then go back to the starting point get in their cars and leave. No issues. I then get a notification that the streets are back open.
      I cant talk to the masks as I am not there and have not seen my town on the news.
      I have seen protests in Chicago on the news and it is the same thing. Cops are there but no incidences that I have heard of. The mayor open Grant Park and one other park for the protesters to have a place to go. IT has been working fine. There again I can not speak for the masks. I am sure there are some with and some without.
      I know you do not like police but the majority are good people that have had a bad time because of the assholes in their ranks. This has been very hard on them also trying to show people that they are not in with the assholes. I am all for prosecuting the bad ones to the fullest extent of the law. And am also very fearful that for some reason they are found guilty of a lesser crime or are found not guilty. I think either of those outcomes would make these past protests and looting look like a walk in the park..
      Take care and be safe and get your ass back home

      1. SMH says:

        Kim e, I am happy to hear that the at least the protests have been peaceful in Chicago. I see there is already a Memorial Day spike but it will get blamed on the protestors anyway. I have always been this way about cops. I do know why but if I talk about it here it will sound trivial or self-serving. I have seen some of them joining the protestors by taking a knee, or at least trying to understand. I have also seen more positive moves by communities rather than just by individual cops. I am hopeful this is a turning point. Smooches!

  41. Is anyone watching the live feed from the funeral? Preacher was doing well. Then he had to go and ruin it and talk about himself. People just can’t resist the spotlight. What a shame.

    1. SMH says:

      Truth seeker, I watched most of it. I thought it was very moving and powerful. Loved that Sharpton mentioned Bristol, UK. But I am not one for religion and a preacher is a preacher, you know, a narc like the preacher Jesus (kidding – I have no idea and do not care, just referencing comments I have seen)

      1. truthseeker6157 says:

        I switched it on part way through and he held me for a while. I felt really he had said what needed to be said, and had said it well. Should have stopped right there. ( just before the organ started chiming in) Instead he milked the air time and switched to talking about himself. Stole all of his own thunder and diluted his own message. Frustrating.

    2. Bubbles 🍾 says:

      Dear truthseeker6157,
      I believe, Rev Al Sharpton’s whole 31.25 seconds was too long
      All he did was grandiose himself
      I don’t agree with “funerals” being used as a platform for political or racial agendas
      A funeral is to talk about the deceased, special memories, friendships, stories, qualities and comforting words, his loving brother did just that
      I sensed the audience was not really interested in George the person
      They should’ve kept it separate
      Luv Bubbles xx 😘

  42. SMH says:

    Make a few blacks your friends? Seriously? Invite ‘them’ to ‘our’ homes? Your whole post is full of ‘we’ and ‘they.’ Who is we and who are they? Maybe you are ‘they’ and ‘they’ are ‘we’? What year is this anyway? I feel like I am in a time warp with a bunch of white 50s suburban housewives.

  43. SMH says:

    Statues are not historical records. They are symbols of admiration. They are coming down right and left because people are becoming aware and finding them offensive.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Any fucker suggests the Bert Trautmann statue is Offensive will be immediately disincentivised.

      1. 🎼Blue Moon….🎼

      2. SMH says:

        Hahaha HG. I don’t even know who Trautmann is but that made me laugh. I don’t think I’ve ever seen you swear before. Now go wash your mouth out with soap.

      3. Violetta says:

        Must’ve been one hell of a footballer. Per Wikipedia:

        protests shrank as fans discovered his talent.[25] Before his first home game, Alexander Altmann, the communal rabbi of Manchester, had written a remarkable open letter to the Manchester Evening Chronicle appealing to City fans and the Jewish community to treat Trautmann with respect.[26

        City’s match against Fulham in January 1950 was Trautmann’s first visit to London. The match received widespread media attention, as most of the British press were based there; several leading sportswriters watched Trautmann in action for the first time. The damage caused to the city by the Luftwaffe meant former paratrooper Trautmann was a target of hatred for the crowd, who yelled “Kraut” and “Nazi”.[29] City were struggling in the league, and widely expected to suffer a heavy defeat but a string of saves from Trautmann meant the final score was a narrow 1–0 loss. At the final whistle, Trautmann received a standing ovation,[29] and was applauded off the pitch by both sets of players.[30]

        Sports loyalty often trumps politics. Some ancient Romans even requested that their tombstones state that they had supported the Greens or Blues.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Then see what he did in the 1956 FA Cup Final.

          1. Violetta says:

            For Tudoristas who are too lazy to Google:

            In the 75th minute, Trautmann, diving at an incoming ball, was knocked out in a collision with Birmingham’s Peter Murphy in which he was hit in the neck by Murphy’s right knee. No substitutes were permitted in those days, so Trautmann, dazed and unsteady on his feet, carried on. For the remaining 15 minutes he defended his net, making a crucial interception to deny Murphy once more. Manchester City held on for the victory, and Trautmann was the hero because of his spectacular saves in the last minutes of the match. Trautmann admitted later that he had spent the last part of the match “in a kind of fog”.[37]

            His neck continued to cause him pain, and Prince Philip commented on its crooked state as he gave Trautmann his winner’s medal.[38] Trautmann attended that evening’s post-match banquet despite being unable to move his head,[39] and went to bed expecting the injury to heal with rest. As the pain did not recede, the following day he went to St George’s Hospital, where he was told he merely had a crick in his neck which would go away.[40] Three days later, he got a second opinion from a doctor at Manchester Royal Infirmary. An X-ray revealed he had dislocated five vertebrae, the second of which was cracked in two.[40][41] The third vertebra had wedged against the second, preventing further damage which could have cost Trautmann his life.[41]
            – Wikipedia

          2. FYC says:

            V, Thanks for sharing that info on Trautmann. What a guy. Talk about loyalty and tenacity (and a high threshold for pain). Incredible!

          3. Violetta says:

            It also shows that preaching tolerance isn’t a patch on sports for ameliorating hatred. The local Rabbi wanted an ex-Luftwaffer to be allowed to play. Think he was operating on brotherly love? He knew Man City didn’t have a prayer of winning without Trautmann!

      4. Mercy says:

        Bert Trautmann? Didn’t he play for the Dallas Cowboys? Haha Obviously this fucker is safe.

      5. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Dear Mr Tudor,
        Top movie “The Keeper ”
        Luvved it
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

          Ps The movie, The Keeper, is based on the true story of Bert Trautmann

    2. Another Cat says:

      Kim E
      Really didn’t mean to be offensive. I think it is a serious matter that African Americans are excluded from social groups of friendship. (like many immigrants too) Most people don’t seem to have any black friend/coworker.

      1. Violetta says:

        I do, but I didn’t become friends with them because or although they were black. I met them through Church, doing theatre, or medieval reenactments. We were already on the same page because we liked Latin liturgy, Shakespeare, Aristophanes, Sondheim, and dressing up in 6 yards of silk to camp in the woods so we can watch our friends bash each other over the head with rattans.

        I don’t consider myself open-minded. It just happens that my strongest bias is against Normies. People somewhere on the geek spectrum make up my comfort zone.

        1. Another Cat says:

          Sounds great Violetta. My friends from different parts of the world are also due to my geekdoms, at least as far as work goes. Plus from church choirs, yes, music is another geek.

    3. Kiki says:

      Yawn 🥱, they are marble : stone non living objects .Peoples behaviour is a far more worrying concern right now not a stupid statue.Shall we all crumble to the floor in horror and disgust because shit happened before our time , and use that as an excuse for truancy and anarchy .If you CHOOSE to take offence to history, what next burn the history books .


      1. lisk says:

        Yes, that next.

  44. SMH says:

    Getting a bit pissy are we? But yes, I hope to be there in my lifetime

  45. Renarde says:

    Dear all

    I am reading so many of these comments, I would say with interest but I wont because that sounds disingenuous and more than a bit coy. It is a geuine interest bourne out of geuine want to understand more. I want to be educated.

    It’s obvious from my avatar I am white. I hold white prievedlege. I do not like being in this position. Moreover, I was born in one of the most affluent countries on the planet. I actually do not feel I have the right to comment because what on earth do I know? I can speak from position of gender but again, that would be unfair and it’s not about what this debate is. I would commit a logical fallacy to do so. So I wont.

    So what can I say? I listen to my friends. One man who has helped me treamoundsly, of Black, African descent, explained to me the institutional racism in the Met. How as a boy, wearing school uniform, he was ‘stopped and sesrched’. The unbelievable scandals involving the death of Stephen Lawrence.

    Or even a few days ago. A mixed race friend of mine, whom I have met on a number of times and who again has been very kind to me. He attended the BLM protest in London.

    He went into a local supermarket needing food. A woman came up to him, and he is still holding his BLM placard. Came into his face and called him a racist. Provocation. He did not respond. What. The . Fuck.

    It’s as Hg says. Its provocation. A need to grab fuel.

  46. NarcAngel says:


    I usually sit out and observe these conversations because I have confusion about what right I have or how much weight my opinions are thought to hold according to others. I am white. My mother is white My stepfather (who came into my life when I was 5 yrs old – back in the 60’s) had a black father and a white mother He identified as black, as did his very large family. He violently abused us all, but even at a young age I knew it was because of him and not his colour. I have experienced racism all my life through him from others but have never tolerated it despite the fact that I hated him and could easily have judged others by him. It was especially hard as a child being excluded and having to defend against insults hurled, especially when he behaved to the stereotype whites had of blacks, but even as an adult I would be surprised suddenly by people I thought I knew. I worked with a woman in the 80’s who upon seeing a picture of my family stated: “millions of men in the world and your mother had to choose a nigger”. She was gay and I was shocked to my core. In the 90’s my husband and I were at a couple’s home for dinner. The tv was on before dinner and a Calgon commercial showed a black woman bathing. The husband snorted and offered: everyone knows niggers don’t bathe. My husband stood first (despite being raised by narcissists who encouraged racism and still do) and we left, never to see them again. There were no previous indicators I noticed from these people. I always wonder about people saying racism is taught. I wasn’t taught anything about it but knew it was wrong. In an instance of reverse, Stepn once told me as a tween to take down a poster of Michael Jackson – that Donny Osmond should be my focus. I knew that was wrong too (I also now know that was provocation but didn’t at the time). Also – I was labelled a racist and a whiter than white princess by some members of Stepnarcs family (behind my back) because when first introduced to his family, I was holding my baby brother and a black cousin was making faces at him. He began crying loudly and she asked why? I said (with no malice but the innocence of a child): You’re different. Maybe he’s just not used to seeing other (than StepN) black people yet. I can see now where that would hurt her but no one spoke to me about it so I remained oblivious that I had done anything wrong. I tried to be part of that group of cousins but they never accepted me and it was never explained why. So I was shunned by whites because of my association with blacks (I was taught by StepN to say coloured btw), and also shunned by blacks and held to statements of ignorance made as a child but carried by them to adulthood. Once again, I now know (but was unaware then) that it was not all racism but narcissism was involved as well. A lethal combination to fuelling hostility on all sides. I seldom wade into discussions as are in progress on here because I have been taught by example that my opinions hold no weight for either side and thus my question to you about the significance of percentage. Truly confused about where I sit in the global people matrix. Thank you for expanding on your comment regarding percentage, and to everyone for offering to the conversation with their varying observations. It’s been interesting.

    1. Witch says:

      Thank you NA,
      I would say racism is taught to a degree. It probably depends on the personality of the person as to what extent they are influenced by what they are taught. E.G I was taught that being gay is wrong and I accepted this belief until I got older.
      Similarly I know of a Polish woman who was taught that black people are inherently thuggish and evil and so when she moved to a more diverse country and city and the first time a black man sat near her on the bus and asked for the time, she was terrified. Now, she doesn’t feel/think that way.
      I’m sure you won’t, but don’t take everything I say on board, I do say a lot of things out of emotion and I don’t always know when I’m doing that.
      I have a tendency to always support the underdog no matter what and it’s not always logical, so I appreciate it when people reel me back in.
      When I was part of feminist groups some of arguments were petty and ridiculous. It got to the point where calling someone a “cunt” was evidence of our oppression lmao. In some of these groups there was also a push to turn all women into lesbians because being with a man was like sleeping with the enemy or whatever they thought. So I understand very well how these movements get out of had and become a cult

    2. Witch says:

      I read through your message again and tbh what you said as a child wasn’t offensive, you were just trying to find a logical explanation and to make a fuss about why a child is crying is just dumb to me. If someone is making funny faces to a babies face then the baby might cry because they got spooked, it’s not that deep. But I understand narcissists look for conflict and offence when none is there just to start an argument.
      My mum is the same way, she’s asked me if I’ve been speaking about her to her group therapist (who I never met by the way) because this therapist challenged my mum in a way she didn’t like, so she wanted to cause an argument with me over it. I used to think “wow! This woman is fucking bored man!!”
      Now I know it wasn’t boredom but being low on fuel.
      Just to clarify in terms of percentages it mostly counts with what you look like. I’m still yellow but I came out whiter than both my parents. I’ve been called a Paki once but that’s about it. If you pass as white, or you’re racially ambiguous enough that people don’t know where you’re from, racists are pretty comfortable around you and would even date you, because they know that if you ever have kids those kids are basically white at that point.

      1. K says:

        Before narcsite, I never understood racism; it didn’t make any sense to me and Boston is a racist (narcissistic) city.

        Now it all makes perfect sense, so I am directing my energy into spreading awareness about NPD, however, I point out that racism is rooted in NPD and should NOT be tolerated. Racism (narcissism) is unacceptable.

        Racism, police corruption and school bullying are all manifestations/symptoms of NPD.

        There was a racist incident at the High School involving a teacher; she was Spanish, she was bullied and lost her job because of the Superintendent, who is a narcissist.

        There was an article in the news about this about this incident so I posted it on the petition re: racism (narcissism) in the our local schools and wrote: Superintendent MW is a Pathological Narcissist, a racist and a bully.

        The effects are serious and I am going to keep fighting to protect all children from racism, child abuse and bullying (manipulations); Fuel and Control.

    3. Mercy says:

      NA, Even as an adult it’s hard to know what to say without offending. I think more education is needed but there has to be work on both sides. I think about a child in school trying to learn. Patience and encouragement is needed. I’m a white woman that comes from a white family, a white community, predominantly white schools. I want to learn. I want to be part of the positive changes but I need to be treated like a 5 year old. I don’t like it when someone mistakenly says something offensive and they are ridiculed. I’m sorry you had to experience that when you were young. Racism does happen the other way too.

      This may have been said, I haven’t read all of the comments today. I was thinking a white person knows what it’s like to be black like HG knows what it’s like to feel empathy.

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