The Dirty Empath – Infidelity
The Empath. Regarded as a paragon of virtue with those traits of honesty, decency, compassion, love devotee, moral compass and so on. All of which make the empath and their fuel output tempting prey for us. Yet within these virtuous empathic traits sit other traits, narcissistic traits.
There are four schools of empath (Standard, Super, Co-Dependent and Contagion) . Layered on to these schools are the empathic cadres (such as Magnet, Carrier and Geyser).
Each empath within the relevant school has both empathic and narcissistic traits. Some will have a small number of strong empathic traits with few narcissistic traits which are low in strength. Some will have many empathic traits which are moderate in strength and have few or numerous narcissistic traits which are all very low in strength. Some will have many empathic traits which are strong and numerous narcissistic traits which are moderate or even quite strong. The key consideration is that, in effect, the empathic traits keep the narcissistic ones ‘in check’ and thus the empathic individuals behave in a way which is empathic with other people.
There are however two main instances when the narcissistic traits come to the fore. The first is through The Empathic Supernova which is when the empathic traits become ‘dialled down’ or eroded for a temporary time and thus the narcissistic traits come to the fore. The second instance is a permanent state of affairs and this is the class of the Dirty Empath. The individual is empathic, of that there is no doubt, they have those empathic traits, they also have narcissistic traits too, however one of those narcissistic traits remains strong and prominent throughout and sits alongside the fewer, weaker narcissistic traits and the various empathic traits of varying strength. This does not mean this person is a narcissist, not at all. It does not mean that this person is not an empath. What it means is that they are an empath but there is one (sometimes there might be more) narcissistic trait which ‘dirties’ their empathic status. Think of the empath coloured white with a black streak running through them.
This class of Dirty Empath has various streaks which appertain to the relevant narcissistic trait which prevails and this includes the streak of infidelity.
Thus where the empath is already in a romantic relationship, whether living together,boyfriend and girlfriend or married and they embark on a romantic, sexual relationship outside of that relationship, their narcissistic trait of infidelity has risen to the surface and remained there. What has caused that to happen? As ever, it is a symbiotic equation.
From the empath’s side there is something not right within their existing relationship which means that the narcissistic trait comes to the fore.
For instance, let us take the example whereby the spouse of the empath is either an empath or a normal and has become impotent and/or has no interest in sex any more. All else is well within the relationship – they care for the empath, they pull their weight around the home, they are a good parent, they have a decent job and so on. All is largely well, save for the issue of sexual relations. In such a situation, the empathic spouse has the following choices:-
- Recognise that all else is well within the relationship, that sex is but one facet (albeit an important one) and accept that it is better to have all of the other good elements of the relationship and therefore not seek to damage the relationship or hurt their spouse by seeking sexual interaction outside of the marriage. This is the response of an empath who has no dirty streak of the narcissistic trait of infidelity;
- As above save that the empath regards sex as so significant that they need it yet they do not want to hurt their spouse. Accordingly, they seek their spouse’s blessing to seek sex outside of the marriage but otherwise want nothing more external to the relationship. This is the response of an empath who has the narcissistic trait of infidelity but it is not so strong as to amount to a dirty streak;
- As per point one, save that the empath craves sexual interaction and knows it can only be achieved outside of the relationship. They therefore seek out sexual encounters with other people but have no desire to leave the existing relationship. This individual’s narcissistic dirty streak has risen to the fore and governed the behaviour of this particular empath.
With regard to this third element it remains relatively rare that the empath will do this unilaterally because their traits of guilt, honesty, decency and compassion will fight against the desire to accommodate the narcissistic desire of infidelity. If the narcissistic trait is very strong, the empath may still seek out these encounters and have them with normal people, an empath in a similar position to their own or find a narcissist.
What happens more often than not in this third situation is that the empath spouse has been targeted by our kind.
An empath with no narcissistic streak of infidelity (or a very low one) will resist the sexual overtures of the narcissist. They may remain as a Non Intimate Secondary Source to the narcissist. It is highly unlikely they would be targeted to begin with in any event by the narcissist.
An empath with a narcissistic streak of infidelity, which is greater than very low, will succumb to the overtures of the narcissist and find themselves engaged in an affair, breaking their wedding vows, breaching the trust of their partner and becoming sucked in to the world of the narcissist. If the narcissistic streak of infidelity is very strong, the empath may even have sought out (unconsciously) the narcissist.
Combine the narcissistic streak of infidelity in the Dirty Empath and a narcissist and infidelity is a given. How this pans out very much depends on the desires and wants of the narcissist. Please see the latter part of The Married Target as to how we are drawn to those who are married and are thus susceptible to our overtures. We may want the empath to become our IPPS and thus they are designated the role of Candidate IPSS as we love bomb them and lure them away from their spouse using our range of manipulations in the way that is described in ‘The Married Target’. It may be the case that both Dirty Empath and narcissist are content with an arrangement whereby the Dirty Empath is a Shelf IPSS and sees the narcissist intermittently and is treated as a friend with benefits, side person or mistress. Both parties are content with this. The narcissist gains in accordance with The Prime Aims and the Dirty Empath scratches that itch for sex outside of the marriage (coupled with the excitement that accords with it) but keeps their own relationship intact.
Sometimes the Dirty Empath becomes the Dirty Little Secret and is content with that arrangement also.
Note however that whether the Dirty Empath is a Candidate IPSS, Shelf IPSS or Dirty Little Secret, this is always at the behest and control of the narcissist. The Dirty Empath may willingly embrace the dynamic (unaware of course that they are with a narcissist and what their role is) as it fulfils the desires of the narcissistic trait of infidelity.
The issue arises however when the Dirty Empath wants to remain in the role of Shelf IPSS or DLS but the narcissist wants the empath to become the IPPS. Battle is joined to pull the Dirty Empath in the direction the narcissist requires with all of the drama, triangulation and heartache that follows. The problem for the Dirty Empath is that having allowed themselves to be governed by the narcissistic streak of infidelity they have already trampled over their partner and the narcissist knows this. In the same way you cannot get a little bit pregnant, you cannot be a little bit unfaithful, you either are not or you are.
Where the Dirty Empath has hitherto enjoyed being the Shelf IPSS or DLS, keeping this activity secret from their partner and enjoying all the other benefits of the best of both worlds, it is the narcissist who ultimately calls the tune and if he or she wants that Dirty Empath in a different role, the narcissist will strive to make it happen. If the Dirty Empath will not accord with the change of allocated role then he or she can expect their partner to be told of their infidelity and invariably the narcissist will have evidence (photos, film, documentary evidence of hotel trysts, oral testimony from Lieutenants) to use against the Dirty Empath. If the threat of release of this material does not persuade the Dirty Empath to submit to the whim of the narcissist, then it will be released. The hitherto painted white Dirty Empath will be painted black, they will be devalued prior to dis-engagement and their own existing relationship with spouse or partner will be the prime target of the narcissist for the purposes of causing its destruction and spreading misery. The need to punish the disobedient Dirty Empath and the significant fuel available (negative fuel from IPSS, negative fuel from secondary/tertiary cuckolded spouse, negative fuel from secondary/tertiary sources allied with said spouse and/or Dirty Empath, positive fuel from loyal secondary/tertiary sources to the narcissist) means that the chances of the Dirty Empath being ‘let off’ are virtually nil.
The Dirty Empath may find they can keep their own infidelity quiet for some time, remain as a DLS or Shelf IPSS and enjoy an elongated golden period with the narcissist, but they have no control over that. If it continues that way, this is purely down to the approach of the narcissist. There remains a risk that the narcissist will wish to change the dynamic and with that comes significant consequences for the playing away Dirty Empath, his or her spouse, partner and family.
Those who “give in” to their narcissistic trait (and this is usually because a narcissist has ‘sniffed out’ this Dirty Empath will eventually end up suffering.
This happens in the following circumstances :-
- The DE is DLS or Shelf IPSS for some time and then the narcissist wants to promote them to Candidate IPSS and then IPPS, but the DE does not want this as this will blow open their infidelity;
- The DE is DLS or Shelf IPSS for some time and then the narcissist decides to dis-engage against the will of the DE;
- The DE wants to become the IPPS of the narcissist, but the narcissist does not want this to happen;
- The DE wants to become the IPPS of the narcissist, achieves this, leaves their former spouse with all of the attendant heartache that causes and then enjoys a golden period with their newly acquired (but unrecognised) narcissist. Of course you know what is coming next don’t you? Yes, the DE IPPS is then devalued and dis-engaged from. Their narcissistic streak of infidelity has seen them lured from an otherwise satisfying relationship, drawn by the golden allure of the unrecognised narcissist only for that to collapse and now they find themselves alone, rejected and often hated by narcissist and the cuckolded spouse they once had.
The Dirty Empath with the narcissistic streak of infidelity who becomes ensnared by our kind is only heading for misery. They do not have the lack of remorse, lack of conscience or lack of guilt that allows us to drive ever forward. Instead they are left to rue the consequences of this narcissistic trait being intensified and exploited by our kind.
Further articles will follow concerning the various streaks of the Dirty Empath.
76 thoughts on “The Dirty Empath – Infidelity”
But in the article, I didn’t see a scenerio of what if the spouse of the dirty empath is a narcissist and the DE knows something isnt right because of that and they have an affair.
Can this also be a scenerio? If not, why wouldn’t it be?
Yes the abuse form the narcissist causes an erosion of emotional empathy which could result in the DE having an affair.
Renarde, I am getting there, thank you. Helped by another message rant from narcy a couple of days ago. He was looking for a fight. I am now seeing him as he really is, which is a massive step.
Renarde, I’m getting there. Slowly but surely. Thank you xx
I would have to disagree that sexually intimate moments are not bonding moments for empaths. They are indeed. Regardless of the narcissist’s perspective, an empath is invested in a different way in the encounter. Just like every other encounter with the narcissist.
I agree. It is perfectly OK if we experienced the intimacy differently. We can have an intellectual understanding they did not care about us, while still having our own feelings about it. Everyone is usually viewing things from their own perspective. 5 people could be in the same room and hear the same speech and all 5 will have their own interpretation of what it meant or how it made them feel… and that’s perfectly OK. Does not take away from our own experience.
I have actually heard it said that ‘the law’ would find an account more believable if witnesses described the incident slightly differently, than if they all remembered things exactly the same way.
That’s saying something.
If the story being told by multiple people is too tight, it’s also too good to be true.
Correct and what you wrote is demonstrated in Unforgotten: Season 2.
Thanks for the confirmation, K. I haven’t seen that series, but it sounds interesting and I might just have to take a look. Love a good detective series.
I especially enjoyed the first two seasons of Mindhunter on Netflix, which is slightly different again, focused on the start up of FBI’s Behavioural Analysis Unit.
Anyway, hope you have a good day 🙂
My pleasure lickemtomorrow
I am on Season: 3 of Unforgotten and both seasons of Mindhunter were very good and I am looking forward to a season 3.
Oh yes, indeed, to Mindhunter season 3 🙂
I’ve got a crush on the main character ,Holden Ford 😉
(Just realized his name is made up of two car manufacturers! He needs a girlfriend called Mercedes Lamborghini …)
I was finding Mindhunter interesting for several episodes but it started to focus too much on Holden Ford, rather than the cases themselves and that caused me to lose interest.
I agree; focus on the cases not Holden.
The Behavioral Science Unit did a lot of grunt work and they deserve credit for it, however, there are still a lot of gaps and, when I was watching Mindhunter, I realized how lucky I was to be here.
Imagine if they had had access to you during the BSU’s inception.
If it follows the book, then the third season should be about the Yorkshire Ripper.
Agreed K. Get back to that nutty fucker who cut his mother’s head off. His interviews fascinate me.
Ed Kemper is played very well by the actor.
I’m going to have to look this one up. I see it has very high ratings, too.
And there’s a book? Even better. Books always include more details.
I’m currently watching a series where Piers Morgan is interviewing serial killers.
It is fascinating as a documentary version.
And one of HGs posts this week also resonated with an episode I watched.
I have gained so much insight here.
Yes Kemper. Thank you. I have to say he made a good case. His mother said she hadn’t had sex in 7 years because of him, so he cut off her head and had sex with it. A case of careful what you wish for.
Head fuckery of the highest order.
Kemper’s interviews are quite fascinating and I enjoyed Montie Rissell’s and Richard Speck’s, as well.
Both the series and the book are really good but the series is better. It’s worth watching because everything we have learned here is applicable to the behaviors that transpire during the show.
Oh yeah I remember mindhunter.. the guy with the shoe fetish lmao! LORD!
I would be able to find peace if he moved now. All the best to you too. X
Gosh, I am so clean it depresses me, haha!
HG, a thought just popped into my head: would being of the Saviour cadre lessen the chances of being a Dirty Empath? Too busy saving others to even think of having any personal fun?
Potentially but it is not a complete exclusion, for instance, you may be a White Knight and wish to save the narcissist by having an affair, or save the narcissist from his or her supposedly abusive partner.
Thank you for the clarification, HG.
I understand that the urge to save can take many forms, and then the Saviour can find themselves flying to the rescue of quite a number of “hard-done by” narcissists.
But if strong narcissistic traits are present in that empath, it can be turned into a little business to make money on the side… Just so as to make some narcissists pay for what others have “borrowed” from the empath…
Yes, time to get back to my nunnery.
If you find me in the nunnery, I’ve been kidnapped. Send help. 🤣
Well, I am on self-imposed romantic lockdown till around Chritsmas. I also call it ‘the nunnery’ – although from what I wrote about my Barbie dolls, this may not be the best place for me to go!
Six months to lower my ET to the minimum level. This I learnt in Zero Impact, and if that is what it takes (and I trust that it does) to avoid another entanglement with a narcissist, then so be it.
On second thought, I apologise if anyone finds unpleasant what I wrote in the second paragraph, above, about making money out of it.
After all, I did cross out Nex’s debts to me.
Sounds like revengeful thoughts. Pointless, and tasteless.
I thought it was funny.
Having a sense of humor (preferably warped) has been part of recovery for many of us. A real sense of humor–the kind where you see the incongruity of something, instead of having to laugh politely at Narc-Narc jokes.
I took it as levity and wishful thinking. If you have other thoughts you think to be vengeful, pointless, and tasteless……Well darling, come sit by me……
NarAngel and Violetta
You really are angels. I am so glad that you are around.
I love your sense of humour, both of you.
I am sure there is more vengefulness, pointlessness and tastelessnes where that came from, in me!
Oh goodness, never read that at all!
You’re good. Believe me, I’ve gone much further.
HG – I’m unclear how this relates to the cadres. It’s not separate, correct? It’s in addition to the cadres? I’m a DE; I must be by definition in this article.
It is better described not as a cadre, but as a class, that would be more accurate and I have amended accordingly.
Thus, let us say you are a Majority Super Empath (school).
You are a Triple Hybrid (magnet, geyser, carrier) (cadres).
That may be the end of the classification.
However, in certain instances you may be a Dirty Empath (class) and that class has different Dirty Streaks, so one is Infidelity, another will be Jealousy, Vanity, Anger etc (I will expand on these in future writing).
Some people are not Dirty Empaths, so they would be a Majority Super Empath and Triple Hybrid.
Some may be Dirty Empaths, so they would be a Majority Super Empath, Triple Hybrid, Dirty Empath (class) : Infidelity (streak).
Thank you for the explanation. We’ll definitely discuss this during our next consultation.
In descending order:
Standar, Super, Contagion
Geyser, Savior/Magnet, Carrier/Martyr
Defiance is my biggest Narcissistic Trait (shocker *eye roll*)
I agree with lickemtomorrow, in that, my DE actions were more often than not and F U to my empathy and the Narc.
I look forward to more articles about Classes and Streaks.
I look forward to doing so.
Interesting. Defiance seems to be a pretty common theme from some of the commenters. I most definitely tick this box. It used to drive my mother nuts when I was a child. If I felt something was wrong I absolutely would not give in no matter what punishment I received as a result. My sister on the other hand could be bribed to do anything for a very small price. .
HG is defiance a common trait amongst all empaths or just your good readers?
Defiance is a narcissistic trait, as per the Trait Detector. It details the other “dirty streaks” too.
Yup Defiance for me. Plus Pride.
Hmmm interesting comment! Good question BC30 and thanks HG.
So I definitely don’t have the streaks of jealousy thanks goodness. Vanity to an acceptable level, Anger not really and if I do it’s rare and it passes quickly except where pantman is concerned! Infidelity, I cannot deny what happened or the part I played. So I guess that only makes me only a teeny, teeny, teeny bit dirty ahahah
AS2016– Have you done the Trait Detector?
not yet BC30, have you? I’m pretty certain that would come out top ahahaha
Get on with it!
Defiant I maybe, but I do still love you telling me what to do
Don’t we all….
AS2016 — Do it! I’ve done all the detectors. They are spot on. Very insightful, explained a lot about the dynamic of my E/N relationships.
Thanks BC30 sounds good. I’ve done the others too. Maybe it’s time to find out some more
Can I be a Filthy Empath (class); it appeals to my narcissistic traits of pride and feeling special. I do have some rather lovely Dirty Streaks.
Wow, I am mind blow again! I’ve done the triple package (empath) and thought I might have missed something.
So is this new insight on your part, HG?
I have my traits ‘locked in’, so not sure how ‘dirty’ it’s going to get, but I’m up to learn more.
Wow! This one is a little mind blowing.
It’s kind of like a middle finger from the empath to their own empathy.
Dear HG, is it possible to turn into a dirty empath due to having been involved with a narcissist for several years? At the start of our relationship sex included a deep emotional connection for me, therefore I couldn’t have imagined doing it with someone else. However, by now it has become purely physical pleasure for me, and honestly, my libido has skyrocketed, but I don’t experience any emotional connection when doing it. I don’t even miss that tbh, lust and the feeling of ecstasy are perfectly enough for me. However, due to this, it is hard to stay faithful. I mean, I feel it is only about two bodies enjoying each other, what is so wrong in doing it with others? I understand it on a cognitive level why it is wrong, but not on an emotional one. Is it possible that this is due to having been involved with a narc? An they turn an empath into a dirty empath?
You have the streak present, the narcissist activates/harnesses it, the narcissist does not turn you into a dirty empath.
I did this once and ended up screwing myself over and one of the only non-narcs I’ve ever dated. I regret it to this day and it happened in 1994. My ex didn’t deserve that kind of treatment from me. Where can I find the articles that list the different cadres of empath and narc? Also, has HG written about the varying strengths of the different traits of the different empaths and narcissists? I’m all about this and have a few friends who are going through this right now. I learned my lesson the hard way and not being a cheater by nature I now know that I’ll never do this to another person. The guilt alone would do me in. But if anyone or HG can point me in the right direction for the info posted in my above questions, I’d be grateful and thank you.
Use the search function and my books.
The search bar on the right is very helpful. If you type Super Empath or Supernova into the bar it will pull up the relevant article. Also, Saviour, Carrier, Magnet, Geyser will pull up the Cadres.
Traits: Honesty, tenacity, Positivity, Truthseeker. The book Sitting Target goes into greater detail about both Empaths and Narcissists.
There are four schools of empath (Standard, Super, Co-Dependent and Contagion) . Layered on to these schools are the empathic cadres (such as Magnet, Carrier and Geyser).
MAY 6, 2019 AT 17:35
Schools Lesser, Mid Range and Greater. Thus subdivided into Lower Lesser, Middle Lesser, Upper Lesser and LMR,MMR,UMR and LG,MG,UG.
Then the cadres – Victim, Somatic, Cerebral and Elite which bolt on to the schools (but not all). Elite is more common as a cadre than Greater is as a school.
Oops, I missed Listener.
Looking forward to the follow up articles to this. I guess in a way I am a dirty empath, although my husband knew of (And initially supported) my relationship with the narc. I think I was disengaged from because he knew I would not become his IPPS. He never directly asked me to leave my husband, but I had many hints that he would like me all for himself.
Wow again. You must have a very understanding husband.
No chance of the narc ‘outing’ you in those circumstances. You were already out.
His only choice was to disengage, it seems, as he had no cards to play when it came to making you his IPPS.
Yes, this was my thought too.
Is your husband also a narc ? What made him support the affair do you think ?
Empath007, although my husband has some Narcissistic traits he is most definitely not NPD. If anything, he would fit more with a diagnosis of Sociopath. But for me his very “no nonsense” approach to life is very attractive. He has no issue cutting people out of his life of they cause him problems, whilst I am the opposite. He was initially supportive of me and narcy, because we are open sexually and always 100% honest with each other, but he couldn’t comprehend that I had gotten emotionally attached. Now we both know (Or at least suspect strongly) this guy is NPD, my husband gets very frustrated by the fact that I can’t seem to move on, because as I say, he wouldn’t have a problem cutting him out.
Thanks so much for answering. I know that was a personal question but I’m glad you did because I find the answer rather fascinating. Just to clarify… you believe your husband to be the sociopath and the lover to be a narcissits ?
I think that’s so… honest. It’s great. So many of us in long term relationships are just in total denial that all of our needs can be met by one person… for the rest of lives… which just isn’t realistic. But institutions like marriage provide stability, such as finances and a family unit for children etc. The fact you and your husband can have open conversations such as this only helps in my opinion. So many people want to hide the affair (for obvious reasons that are understandable) but I’ve always thought… if you’re gonna do it… why not just be honest about it. This is 2020. The churches outdated archaic views of marriage are no longer applicable (in my opinion). And If all of us would be more accepting then we actually Decrease the impact infedility has… which actually takes away one of the powerful tools the narc uses !
Anyhow. Thanks again for answering. I wish you the best on your journey figuring out both relationships.
Thank you 😊 I am almost 100% certain the lover is NPD. I am not convinced my husband has enough traits to be diagnosed as a sociopath, but he definitely has quite a few. He is the most interesting person I’ve ever known.
Incidentally, I just read “The Fading Narcissist” and I believe this is what’s currently going on. The lover has realised I cannot be his IPPS and in his final email to me, he expressed his number one priority as “getting out of here.” He wants to move, possibly back to Berlin or the States, so he can start over. Although I feel he has burned many bridges in both places, so good luck to him with that!
As you can see, honesty is of utmost importance to me, and it’s been my downfall with Narcy. He used it against me so many times, knowing I would be triggered.
I agree the world needs to be more accepting about the various types of relationships out there, and polyamory would certainly out more than a few narcs, although I fear it would also attract just as many, as it did in my case.
I understand what you mean I was with a “normal” for 15 years who was low on empathy, however I did not experince the typical golden period, devaluation, disengagement with him and there was no infedilidty (that I’m aware of)…
But his lack of concern for people in general and for me was ultimately the down fall of our relationship.
Your narc will be just fine. They do not get hurt feelings they just pretend to to get sympathy. Perhaps if he moves that will be essential for you and your healing. Sometimes I wish mine would move away so I know there’s no chance of running into him ever.
All the best !
I think that emotional attachment is always going to happen with empaths. For me, that situation would be like playing with fire. Narcissists, with their ability to detach so easily due to their lack of emotion, would find it child’s play to move from one relationship (sexually) to another. Those intimate moments are not bonding moments for them the way they are for empaths. I’m quite sure on one hand they would revel in this type of lifestyle. On the other hand, the issue for them, of course, is the ongoing need for fuel and a reliable source of supply. I guess in the circumstances you were not going to be reliable in the way he wanted you to be.
“Those intimate moments are not bonding moments for them the way they are for empaths.“
In that case, they are not bonding moments for the empath, either, since there is nothing/no one to bond with.
I am.not a clinical, medical practitioner (and what do they know anyway?) But I would VERY strongly against your assertion that your husband cannot have NPD and be a sociopath. Or a psychopath.
Just because you had have these convoys with him about your lover, does not mean to sat he also doesnt have NPD.
Narcs can and often do very strange things when the formal is challenged. Even the UMS and I discussed if my needs could be met by having an open relationship. My behest.
In the end and because I loved him so much, I refused and then that’s another one of the reasons it ended.
I dont think your husband is normal. I think you have accepted his behaviours as normal over the passage of time.
Ah, but what is “normal?” He is certainly unusual, but only in positive ways. For me anyway. The comparisons against him and my NPD lover are vast. He most certainly isn’t NPD. As for a Sociopath, who knows? But there is definitely no malice in him where I am concerned. We both embraced an open marriage, what I found strange was his inability to see how I would become so emotionally attached to someone else, whereas for me it was a given.
Well, I dont know. Most important point is, are you ok?
Can’t respond to you above, so commenting here. Defiance and Pride are my top 2.
I hear you sister!