Dirty Little Secret


Sometimes it is not all Relationship Bulletins, declarations to the world about you and me or announcements across the fabric of social media about our perfect love. Sometimes you are the dirty little secret.

This is never the title afforded to the primary source that we have chosen. It is those who are  secondary sources who find themselves labelled in this way.

Do you have a friend who makes demands of your time, often calls you and ensures that you give up your time so he or she is able to tell you all about what they have been doing, obtain your advice and uses you as a sounding board? Does this person tell you all about the brilliant weekend or she has just had with a group of other friends at some weekend away or at a concert but somehow no invitation came your way? Do you perhaps politely and subtly ask whether you can attend some forthcoming event which this friend is enthusiastically telling you about, maybe even gloating about how brilliant it will be, but this friend shows all of the perception of a plank of wood and never picks up on your hints? Even if they do or perhaps if you are more forceful as you ask whether you can attend or you point out how you never get invited along, are you met with comments such as:-

“Yes, I know you would have loved to have come but I didn’t organise it, John did and it is his fault he didn’t ask you.”

“I didn’t think it was your kind of thing.”

“There was only a few places available but I will make sure you can come to the next one.”(Of course this never transpires)

“I thought you hated rock music. I am sure you told me that you did.”

“I have been so busy I must have forgotten to ask you.”

“I did ask you and you said no.Dont you remember?”

(Of course this is a lie.)

These people are our inner circle. The select few who are our guardians of our reputations, loyal lieutenants and brainwashed and indoctrinated to fawn over us, carry out our demands and provide us with fuel and you are not in the inner circle.

In fact, the inner circle does not ever know about you. When we spend time with you, we string you along with future-faking, we allow you to bask in our greatness and at first it feels good to have such an interesting, charismatic and seemingly attentive friend. You may attract the label of friend and you sit in the outer circle but you are a dirty secret secondary source. We do not want our inner circle to know about you because whilst you serve an excellent purpose in providing us with fuel, your enthusiasm when we tell you with a moment’s notice that we are coming to visit is just the tip of the fuel berg. We know you are loyal, dependable and faithful. We know you will provide us with the fuel that we need and you above everybody else will be the go to person when fuel stocks are running low. Whether it is 3am call or an appearance on a wet and windy Monday evening in winter, you always welcome us in, always take the call and you always oblige. We do make you feel special, trotting out the easy to mouth platitudes about how much we like being with you, how we enjoy your company, how it is good to know that we can depend on you but this is just to keep you sweet and functioning. The reality is we do not want other people knowing about you because you do not fit with our idea of how our life looks. You might not be as good looking as we would prefer, you might not shine in a group, or you are apt to saying unusual things which we feel would make us look less impressive in front of our all important facade. No, you are kept in the background, used but rarely abused because you are the long-serving indentured servant of the narcissist. The loyal hound that sits in the corner of the kitchen, always ready to wag your tail for us but too old and unappealing to be paraded at the show. This is the role of a dirty secret secondary source.

There is also the Dirty Secret Intimate Partner  Secondary Source (“DSIPSS”). You were seduced and made into a secondary source and within the blind of an eye you were bedded and the platitudes of love and dedication came pouring forth in order to secure your loyalty. There are those who are earmarked for promotion to primary source, they are destined for better things so long as they come up to proof with regard to the provision of fuel, character traits and residual benefits. Those who are on the fast-track to being installed as the primary source can expect to meet our children, meet our families and our friends, be paraded and attend certain events with us, all at the humiliating cost to the currently devalued primary source who is on their way out, all being well with the seduction of this Intimate Partner Secondary Source. The future is rosy for this person.

The DSIPSS is never considered for promotion. Words may be whispered to that effect but they are just false promises, more future faking and the crumbs of comfort which are scattered to stop you foraging elsewhere. When we allocate you the role of dirty secret next to nobody knows about you.

Whereas the IPSS who is in waiting for the top role may find themselves being picked up and put down, with intervals of silence in between the weekend hook-ups, as we test that person to gauge their suitability for promotion, it is a different story for the dirty secret.

The dirty secret actually may well see quite a lot of us. in the backs of cars, in seedy motel rooms, in the back of the warehouse, the disabled toilet, the alley behind the house and such like. You are never to be seen by our family, our friends or even our colleagues. You remain hidden because your presence will offend our facade. We are the dedicated family man and thus we cannot be seen hanging out the back of you down some leafy lane at dusk. We are the champion of morals in our local community and it would not be the done thing for us to be know to be engaging in the debauchery that we insist on when we are with you. The primary source may well be devalued but we do not want them to be sullied by the knowledge of the filthy whore that have twice a week. You are a pit stop for a delicious injection of fuel. That snatched two drinks in an out of town bar where you had to sit and wait for two hours before we showed up? You are a dirty secret. Never allowed to call or message us before we have contacted you first? You are a dirty secret. Never allowed to meet our friends? You are a dirty secret. We wish to portray an image and you do not fit with that image but you are a potent bundle of fuel, dedicated and desperate, always hanging on for that stolen hour in bed together, the occasional afternoon when we pretend to work to have a meeting in the next state or county. You live for those moments because in that instant we make you feel wonderful, we focus on you, we give you the best sex, the excitement and the promises, oh the promises of what could be yours.

The future faking with an IPSS is born out of being torn between not wanting to lose a good source of fuel and the potential this IPSS has to perhaps become a primary source at some juncture. We do not want to lose that, thus we keep the IPSS hanging on as I described in the article ‘What Am I To Him?’ It is a different set-up for the DSIPSS. You were not selected for potential promotion. You were selected because you are a dependable, reliable turbo-boost of fuel and when we demand it, you always provide it. Why would we ever let that go? We would not.

Like the friend who is the dirty little secret above, you are the same but with you comes the intimacy. you are the recipient of our oft-spewed sugary charms and in receipt of our desire to use you for sex and the provision of fuel. We rarely take you anywhere, for fear of detection and our engagements are covert, hurried and secretive, yet this adds to our charm, our mystery and you find it as addictive as we do. It is only when we are going and you wonder what we are doing and who with, that you are left to rue the emptiness and the loneliness. You want to provide us with what you think we need, to allow your goodness to shine for us, but we will never let you do so, not outside of those hotel walls where we meet every Thursday evening.

Unfortunately for you, you do not fit in with the image we wish to convey to the world. You do not fit with what we wish to show. If we ever saw you, by chance, when we are out with our facade, be that family, friends or colleagues, we would ignore you and pretend we did not know you. Of course, later that day we would lay on the charm to excuse our behaviour because we do not want to let you go either. You are a brilliant stick on emergency fuel patch. You provide fuel and you remain hanging on, waiting for the day that you hopefully emerge blinking into the light of the golden period for the primary source.

That is never going to happen. Not that we will admit it to you.

Stay in that dark corner and wait for our call.

You are a dirty little secret.

117 thoughts on “Dirty Little Secret

  1. MK says:

    Just read more, I was an IPSS, not DSIPSS. Dont know if that makes any difference… We’d also known each other since we were 14yrs-old, we are 53 now; dont know if that makes any difference either.

  2. MK says:

    HG~ just curious. Why would a narc suddenly block a DSIPSS who unfriended him a year ago? I never tried to contact him, never spoke of him to anyone, never responded to multiple hoovering attempts. (Just found your blog two days ago. Thought unfriending and not responding was good enough. I have since done all the blocking). Im reading everything I can of yours because I never want to be on this man’s radar again.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello MK, I would need more information to establish the nature of the dynamic and the context and a consultation is the appropriate venue, however, on the information provided it may well be that he is in the golden period with a new IPPS and therefore you are no longer required and thus disengaged from based on being seen as a potential threat (from his perspective) to the new golden period and its success.

  3. catcity13 says:

    I was a DSIPSS – the lowest of the low. Thanks for all your writing HG. It’s given me great clarity and the strength needed to do no contact the correct way.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

      1. Christal says:

        The dirty little secret yes indeed was that, and secondary source to sociapath. Then was using the same tactics against him. Silent treatment. Ignore. Cat and mouse game. Done.

  4. Angelinpink says:

    Yolo ..
    After today I don’t think so … i wanted a 5 minute conversation … he told me no. …. even offered 300 dollars just so I can have peace as he has always come back …. I just wanted to talk even on phone which at first I was blocked then he changed it… I have to work with him so I just wanted to talk he says he has nothing left to say my fantasy is over … refused money told me it’s the principle ….. I just wanted to talk …

    1. Yolo says:


      I would highly suggest you schedule a consult with H.G. asap. Those are the games the play the blocking and unblocking of phone numbers.
      Its all about control and manipulation. He will return once the current victim gets stale. It could be weeks, months, or years.

      You ask for minutes for 300.00 and he declined. Are you in therapy? If you don’t mind may I ask how you found narcsite?

      1. Angelinpink says:

        Yolo … I just saw this …. my co-worker just left her narc and told me…. still not back with him … he has to be seeing someone else

        1. Yolo says:

          I hope the distance and time have strengthened you. Once we get them out of our space ww can see clearer. Please share the site with your co-worker. Knowledge is power… when we use it😊otherwise uselessness..

          Continue Healing and Peace

          1. Angelinpink says:

            Yolo…no distance I have to see him daily… so each day is torment. … Depends on his moods of how he treats me … on Saturday he was drained tho I’ve never seen him this way…. some days he provokes me….sonedays it’s just eye talk …. but thank u

  5. Angelinpink says:

    Does the narc come back to the dsl? I think this was my final discard… I used to give him money and sex …. he discarded me when I kept accusing him of cheating and then kicked his foot

    1. HG Tudor says:

      There remains a risk that this can happen. The risk is not as great as a former IPPS, but there remains a risk nonetheless.

      1. Angelinpink says:

        Just a risk? I want him to come back …. he always did before….but this time I saw the fury and silent treatment

        1. Yolo says:


          Don’t worry he will return. You are giving money and sex if he needs money and you are a dependable source. Dont worry your self he will return. What you thought was fury probably was disgust.

          Use your money wisely, pay for several consults with H.G. invest in yourself.

    2. ng27 says:

      I know you want him to come back, we all want them to come back. We think this next time they come back we will make it work somehow.

      But the reality is, he will never stay. He will get worse after each discard.

      For your own peace of mind, allow yourself to go through the heartache of being without him. Heal yourself and don’t let him back into your life.

      1. Angelinpink says:


        Easier said than done when you have to work with them …. they mess with your head

  6. Mercy says:

    Yolo, I’d whore my feet out for $60 😅😅 hey it’s just feet!

    1. Yolo says:


      Hahaha, I considered especially starbucks meet up. Lol, then I snapped back in reality. I’ve enter the sphere of the mid recently so I cant be too careful. ☺ The mind games are that of a greater. A month or so ago he gave me detailed accounts of my daily activities. I told him he only knew about them because i was dating his brother.😑 it was a lie. He said, i know we talk about you everyone knows you are crazy.

  7. Mary says:

    Hi Yolo,

    I’m glad you followed up. Thank you for your comments. I completely understand about the wine and look forward to getting to know you better.

    Wow, $60 to take pics of your feet is quiet a compliment. I would have been suspicious also, as your ex does appear to have a thing for feet, even if he didn’t vocalize it. And it it turned out to be a complete stranger, that would feel creepy to me in a whole other way.

    Regarding my hub, sadly he refuses to go to therapy. He won’t go alone or with me to couples therapy. I tried on an off several times, and then gave up. He doesn’t want anyone knowing his innermost feelings and thoughts, not a therapist, not me, and is repulsed by the idea of self-reflection. He’s called me “self focused” and “self involved” for examining my own feelings about things, and there is truth to that. I have attended therapy on an off our entire relationship, and the only thing I can change is me, but I haven’t become his ideal wife. All I’ve been able to do is develop a thicker skin so his outbursts have less impact, but I developed acid reflux at age 30, fibromyalgia at age 33, and a mild case of atrial fibrillation at age 38, after which diagnosis he said, “Are we really supposed to believe there could be SOOO much wrong with you?!”. A thicker skin has helped me not scream at him and have crying meltdowns, but it has not benefited my body and heart, though it’s entirely possible these conditions would have developed anyway. I have been afraid if I left him, I would gravitate toward even more demeaning and abusive men like the online narc who is a serial cheater (and possibly a psychopath like you said) or the unethical massage therapist who earned my trust over multiple sessions and crossed lines (hub knows about that). However, being married and feeling lonely and undesirable has already led me to be vulnerable to narcs like that. Any scrap of food, no matter how toxic, is welcome when we are starving. I have to feed myself what hubby can’t or won’t, but it needs to be something healthy and not come from a twisted narc. And while I’m married, all I attract is narcs. It’s not my hub’s fault I feel the way I do. I’m responsible for choices I make as a wife. Yet, Hub has no investment in meeting the most minimal of intimacy needs. I have tried to just deal with it, but that hasn’t worked out.

    MLA-Clarece and Indy were right that the online affair was a huge diversion from having to make a big change in life like leaving this marriage. Yet, it did result in two simultaneously abusive relationships. The online narc twisted my head inside out, and 2.5 months after walking away I’m nowhere near over what HG calls the infection. I’m just as obsessed as ever, just that it’s focused on learning and accepting the truth of who that loser really is. Sharing and receiving feedback here has helped a ton, and reading HG’s posts.

    Sorry to ramble on again. Need to start learning how to dial it back.


    1. Yolo says:


      Thank you for accepting my apologies. I too have acid reflux potentially from stress started at 37 for me every day i take protonix.☺Also,,i have a mild leakage in my left aortic valve. ( from taking phen phen in the 90’s) i was only 115 pounds. ☺

      Life is so short too live in misery for so long? It’s okay to be self centered some of the time. No ones going to save you, you have to save yourself. From what I understand about podophilia they get sexually turned on by feet. The mid to lesser I think is one.

      I am glad your new obssession is gaining knowledge of these types. Social media and dating sites are breeding places for parasites. It’s unfortunate the people we love and trust will disappoint us the most. I place little to no expectations in humans. I am sure that’s unhealthy but hey. I have to stay guarded for now.

      You have a beauty soul, have needs and desires that can be met if you are open to trying toys. ☺ Some are better than most men.

      Peace and Blessings

  8. Mary says:

    I appreciated you sharing your thoughts, though I did feel attacked by several of your comments. You think I didn’t wonder a million times and beat myself up already over the fact that I was into this guy? You think I need to be bashed over the head with how twisted this “relationship” was? Did your reality show comment make you feel better?

    Of course a couple of the things he said were criminal, but him saying them was not a criminal act. I honestly thought he was trying to get a reaction from me. As for his “raping” his neighbor, he used that word to push a boundary with me because of my own history which he knew. He got off on being able to say things that hurt a little I think, and know I would still be there. He got off on how addicted I was to him.

    I do apologize if my detailed account of experience with this guy offended you or anyone else. The intent was not to be pornographic, but to share as much as I could about what happened. Much of this relationship was sexual, so it is hard to avoid in discussion about it. Also, I overshare. It’s something that needs work, but that’s where I am right now. It’s part of what made me a target. That, and my tendency to make excuses for others behavior. In general when someone’s behavior feels hurtful or off, I tend to assume it’s because I’m reading too much into it. If it upset or triggered you or anyone else, I apologize for that.

    You may be correct in your assessment of my narc as a psychopath. He has many qualities of one. From everything I have read, all psychopaths are narcs. A different level of narc, but still one.

    I don’t know if I am an empath, or what kind. If HG has an opinion on that, it would be valuable to hear his insight.

    As for my husband, and this sounds terrible, but I do not feel guilty because most of my feelings for him have been shut down. I love him, but in a guarded way. He doesn’t deserve to be cheated on, and I’m sure he would feel betrayed if he read the conversations with my narc. I definitely do not wish this on him. On the other hand, we have lived like roommates our entire marriage. He has many great qualities, he’s hard working, thoughtful and generous. He’s funny too. He is also emotionally and sexually unavailable, he has raged his entire life, and he takes much of this out on not just me but our elderly dog who cannot hear and is losing his vision slowly. I’ve seen this man rage at his 92 year old grandmother.

    To live with him, I’ve had to cut off my emotions from him a great deal. Also, he prefers porn to me every time. This was somewhat manageable until I discovered he had been keeping pics of customers whose computers he worked on. I don’t think he got their permission. He has naked pics of some local college students in his personal porn collection. I can tell by the way those particular folders are arranged they are not downloaded from a site, he got them from a picture directory on a hard drive. Also, he has a foot fetish which is fine, but I found pics of my own mother’s feet in his collection! He took pics of my moms feet on several occasions when we were at her home. I don’t think that makes my online fun (which I stopped after a year) okay by any means, but I don’t feel a lot of guilt for it knowing my hub has been engaging in his own form of constant betrayal for our entire marriage. It doesn’t mean he deserves to be hurt. He doesn’t. But my own behavior didn’t take place until after I learned all this shit about him. This isn’t an excuse for my behavior. It is a reason. I was in a place of extreme loneliness and vulnerability when the narc introduced himself and he presented himself as a charming and witty guy who just likes to have a little fun. And he presented a means to escape for a bit in fantasy, when I don’t feel I can be on my own financially.

    Yolo, if you or anyone else would like to diagnose me, it would be welcome. It’s just better for you to have the whole story and the context of the dynamics of this marriage if you’re going to.


    1. Mary says:

      As a follow up in response to Yolo…

      If I was too defensive in the above comment, I apologize. You raised many valid points and perhaps meant well. Some things you said touched a nerve because they had truth to them.

      However, When you said you would consider me for your “next reality show” it felt condescending and like you weren’t well. Was that supposed to be constructive?

      1. Mary says:

        ** Correction to the above comment, “felt condescending and like you weren’t MEANING well.”

        1. Indy says:

          Sometimes people have to share the story in full detail as it was never shared before fully and helps with processing the abuse and all the events. No judgement here. I had a feeling you needed to get it all out. It’s common among trauma survivors, either to bottle it all up or share each detail. It is healing for some to do it. Others it can trigger deep painful
          Emotions. I will admit, some was hard to read because it was painful but it is understandable.

          Are you still with your husband? He sound like a sex addict and potentially more, sounds very abusive and toxic too. Abusive to a deaf dog and elderly? He may be sociopathic. I’m sorry you are in that space. Do you have children together? Are you able to plan an escape from him? Have you had a chance to seek some support from others in your region?

          Yes, you are right, oversharing is a quality they look for and good for you for recognizing it. I came from a small rural town and it was part of the culture to share a lot. I did the same and work on it too. Watch out for apologizing too much, another quality predators spot. It shows them you struggle with lower boundaries. Practice standing up for yourself in little ways and practice saying no. (Good job on checking for clarity in messages here as this is one way to do it, even if it is fuzzy in interpretation, online is hard to know what is meant. Sometimes they are harmless and misinterpreted and sometimes worthwhile and it was meant with barbs. Always good to check. It helps with self respect development too.) Even in little ways, like telling a waiter they got your order wrong (politely of course) and request it changed, or other little things like returning goods or changing your mind on a coffee order. It takes practice. Telling people no. When you get comfortable with little things, the bigger things are easier to tackle (though still a challenge).

          Best of luck here and in your healing!

      2. Mary says:

        I worry that my feeling defensive at Yolo’s post is reflective of my own dysfunction, if maybe there is something wrong with me for taking it the way I did. Maybe my own response can be learned from.

        Yolo, you’ve posted many things on here to others that are insightful and supportive. In light of this, It’s highly unlikely you were trying to be hurtful. Yet, I took it that way and don’t know what that says about me.

        1. MLA - Clarece says:

          Mary, go easy on yourself. You just opened up and exposed your very personal story allowing us a glimpse to share with you and learn. It’s only natural to feel vulnerable and almost bracing yourself for a backlash for doing it.
          I think you have endured a lot both in your marriage and with your online Narc. I think the Narc created a huge diversion to escape what Indy called a very toxic environment with your husband. You have been abused simultaneously by two men in different ways. This is a great place to come to each day to start to heal.

      3. Mary says:

        Indy and MLA-Clarece,

        Thank you both for your insight and for understanding and withholding judgment. It’s hard to know how much detail is too much. It did feel like I needed to get it out here. There are a couple of friends that know most/all of the details and have been truly supportive, though they learned things in drips as they happened as opposed to all at once. I’m fairly new to this board and needed to share here without holding back how twisted things felt and the darkness of the path I was on. During that entanglement, I felt so lost and hopeless, like there was no way out. Even after cutting him off, I still wondered if it was all a mistake on my part. Even now sometimes! I still haven’t been able to get him out of my head. Coming to this site, reading HG’s posts and so many experiences and feelings of others that echo my own, has helped me see what happened so much more clearly.

        Indy, you asked if I’m still with my hub. Yes, we have been married over 10 years and together in total 20 years. I’ve known him over half my life. Walking away from that is hard, especially when he still makes me laugh every day, and at times he can be very loving in his way. His rage has stayed verbal mostly. When he is violent it’s usually to objects like a door or his desk. His rage at his grandmother was all verbal. He has not hit the dog, but he has screamed at him and picked him up in a rough and aggressive way and made me think he would or could hurt him. All of this isn’t to justify his behavior, just to explain that he doesn’t go around beating on people. He’s still scary to me, but I don’t generally walk on eggshells. I stand up for the dog, and he has really gone off because of that and called me a piece of shit. I told him I was done, and meant it. But it was the week of Christmas and I didn’t want to leave over the holidays, but then I moved right back into the bedroom after sleeping in guest room a few days.

        He puts up with a lot from me too. He deals with a wife who has fibro and depression and spine issues so there are many things around the house I cannot or will not do at times because of pain. I’m disorganized. He feels like he’s alone in that way, I’m sure. I feel alone emotionally and sexually in this marriage. I am bitchy at times too, not on purpose, but moody. Granted my worst mood isn’t loud and scary like his screaming and shaking his fits and stomping or jumping around. Still, if in a mood, I’m very unpleasant to deal with. Does it justify abuse from him? No. Does it make it more understandable though?

        1. Yolo says:


          I apologize for my harsh comment. This is HG blog and should be a safe space to share without feeling shame or bullied.

          I am not in your relationship, but I think its great that you are able to identify the good and not so good in your marriage. Your husband may or may not be a narc. Most narcs don’t stick around when health issues arise. Also, if he was a narc he would use every opportunity to remind you of how he’s still with you. ( lucky you) 😊from the narc perspective.

          Hopefully, with counseling you guys can move forward and live happily ever after. You never know could be just a lack of communication. Good Luck and my apologies. In the future, I will try to stay away from blog while indulging in wine.

          Yes, 65% of the mean comments come from the wine.😊

      4. Yolo says:


        Again, I apologize i just seen your original post with more information detailing your husbands behavior. Scratch my original comment. Only you can decide how much good is in him and if your marriage is worth salvaging.

        Interesting the foot fetish( podophilia) I recently had someone ask me to meet them at Starbucks or a park to take pictures of my feet for 30 minutes and he would pay me $60.00 😑 He contacted me from one of the sites i sell on. I played along also i believe the person may have been the ex. midrange. I didn’t think much about it in the past but as soon as we would meet the first thing he would do is take offf my shoes and rub my feet. He was really big on buying women that worked for him gift cards for pedicures. Lol..

        Peace and well wishes

      5. Yolo says:


        You were correct in stating my comment regarding reality show was condescending.. Not all bad but to show the mental devastation a narc cause with a pseudo online relationship.

        Women give the vultures thousands of dollars,,their soul and dont know what they are dealing with.

        How to spot a narc and allow us to tell our stories can potentially save millions

  9. Mercy says:

    *used me for triangulation

  10. Mercy says:

    Speaking of dirty little secrets, he recently gave me a tablet, said he only used it a couple times. As I was looking it over at his house I noticed that his email account is set up on it. It’s not hooked up to internet right now and I’m hesitating….do I connect? Do I reset to factory settings before I connect? I want to look through those emails so bad but I don’t think I want that much information. Will knowing even more of his secrets and lies make me leave? Probably not so why hurt myself. Ugh I’m so conflicted right now.

    1. Mercy says:

      Him and New Girl have most of there conversation through email. I’m not so concerned about their relationship talk. He devalues her every other day because of her “cheating”. I’m more curious about how he has used me for the.

    2. HG Tudor says:

      You ought to be more concerned about the fact he will be able to access your tablet when you hook it up. Factory settings it is.

      1. Mercy says:

        Didn’t think about that. Thank you! I will reset, I don’t want that much information anyway. Still so tempting though.

    3. C★ says:

      i would step it up! … use Thor, get a VPN/PIA…. you will thank me later!

  11. superxena says:

    Quoting your comment: ” We may suck, but empaths swallow”…
    Do we all ? I don’ t think so…Some of us do not…there are limits to some of us for how much and how long we “swallow”…

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello SX, indeed you do, you all swallow the illusion. That may change later, but you swallowed it all the same.

      1. superxena says:

        Hello HG! Thank you for your answer. I partially agree with you: part of what you say is true( which I find infuriating) and part is not. Perhaps that marks the difference between those who eventually succed escaping and those who don’t. Since the beginning I felt something was really wrong…It was to good to be truth..
        This is based of course only on my experience..

      2. superxena says:

        What I mean is that I didn’t really swallow it all from the beginning…

      3. Yolo says:

        Mary, for lack of no reply button on your post and seeing this might be the appropriate place to post..

        Honey, you are in real life now. You keep justifying all of your behavior as fantasy. I am assuming you mean his “fantasy”. I think we get it but your post or bordering soft porn. Not on this specific post but your detailed description of what happened with him making you taste his fluids and passing it on to you. Also, telling you he had a cock in his mouth. Too eaches own, but when i think of a fantasy it does not include actions that make me feel uncomfortable. Like raping his neighbor. Fantasy or not did you feel concern. Thats a criminal act. (Still fantasy) i do not underestimate the influence narcs have neither do i give them that much power.

        I don’t know if you claim to be an empath, if so what about your husband?

        I dont think the guy is a sociopath or narc. I think he’s a psychopath, nope I am not a doctor. But, i have watched enough investigative id episodes to qualify him as a psychopath and you??? I will leave that to HG.

        Although, I will consider you for our next reality show. I am sure there are many thay can relate to your story.

    2. MLA - Clarece says:

      Nicely put Superxena!

      1. superxena says:

        Thank you MLA- Clarece!

  12. C★ says:

    HG…. would fury be ignited if DLS contacted IPPS and IPSS to reveal who she is? or would it be fuel? and how would you deal with her (dls) for betraying you this way?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Possibly. Depends how it is done.

  13. Amy says:

    I was a DLS. I am sooo tempted to contact the IPPS. She is supposed to know about me anyway… But I wouldn’t know how to go about it. It would be nice to hear what others have to say about this. Thanks.

    1. TI says:

      Amy.. I too would love to contact the IPPS, however the narc has blocked me from every avenue and said if I ever try and contact her, my life won’t be worth living and he didn’t want his ‘good’ image blown. He comes across as a caring, good community citizen, but of course we know what is beneath all that facade. I was so angry when I suggested I contact his IPPS while I was being devalued by him in the worst possible way. As MLC said, the DLS’s suffer the most because the narcs unleash their anger and verbal abuse on us the most. I was his ‘secret’ for about 6 months until I put 2 and 2 together that the IPPS and him are still very much together, yet he lied time and time again about that fact. Not only that, but he still has another IPSS who also unbeknownst to her has no idea about his IPPS. How can they be so blind after years of this, thinking they are his only girlfriend and yet I saw through his lies and deceit within 3 months of it, and then stupidly stuck around for another 3 months while he devalued me.. but like u I really wish I could warn both of them as to his true character… I just pray karma will come and do the deed..

      1. Amy says:

        TI and Mercy thank you for your comments. I will not contact her. I am sure she knows being married to him for decades. My is very careful about hus public facade as well. I am just banging my head against the wall that it took me more than 2 years to realise what he was and I am so mad at myself. I should have had the aaahhh moment much earlier especially that I only got the bronze period to start with and the lies were evident very early on.. Just curious if he is treating his new supply better after he did learn a thing or two from me…

    2. Mercy says:

      Amy my advice would be don’t do it. What if the response is bad? It’ll only add to your misery. Let the IPPS figure it out on her own. Worry about you and your emotional health. In my opinion involving the other fuel sources spells trouble for you. And if she’s in the golden period she wouldn’t believe you anyway.

  14. Twilight says:

    Your comment made me step back, the anger behind the words. In reality I had to separate my anger.

    I wonder thou if this is how the child that being created feels. Part of the “real” self is made to feel worthless. HG made a comment to Dr. O when she was speaking of triggers. One example she used was the rubbish being taken out. HG replied with His mother always took care of the rubbish. He stated she missed the point.

    Everything has it place, everything has its use
    Everything represents an aspect of one, so long as things (people) provide accordingly.

    They control their surroundings, which means the self is their surroundings. People are just extensions of them. The dirty little secret represents the part they where taught was rubbish.

    Just my opinion in a very sleep deprived state.

    1. MLA - Clarece says:

      The DLS representing the part of the Narc that is rubbish and needs to be taken out… that is what I meant by the Narc needs an outlet to channel all of his darkness especially if their IPPS is part of the facade. (Think minister’s wife or CEO whose father-in-law owns company – they can’t rock the boat because that lifestyle forms their construct).
      What I found scary about that article is I know HG says he writes universally to account for all ranges of Narcissism. But I was questioning him on his choice of words with such angry, misogynistic undertones. Honestly after reading that one, every woman entangled with HG is another Lesley, IT girl. There’s really no difference.
      It was interesting to me that you and Sarabella found so much simmering anger in my words. Like I told her I just wrote from the heart, a very angry heart apparently. Lol
      Why is the DLS considered such a “filthy whore”? She carries the same golden traits. She loves just as fiercely. Her fuel is like lava hot and worth protecting and saving given all the future faking. She’s “filthy” because he projects all his rubbish on her. It’s his filth imprinted all over her. That was worth getting angry over.

      1. Tiddlywink says:

        MLA.. I couldnt agree more.. and I think as their “secret” it is the hardest for us, because not only are we not being told the truth by the narc, but when they decide to devalue us, after weeks or months of the golden period, and them telling us about how unhappy they are with their wives (if in fact they even admit they are married to start with) and then with all of our self doubt and mindf$$kery which came with it, and then for them to go back to their wife after our horrendous devaluation, is very difficult. Never in my life have i been treated in such a vile way by anyone. He is truly sick.. but it leaves me empty.. (i am currently 2 weeks NC) and angry because we know he wont be hurting at all.. he is after all playing happy families while we suffer. Thanks to people like u and everyone on HGs blog (and HG of course) we are all supportive to each other because we know exactly how we all feel having been through it with narcs…

  15. Victoria says:

    Hi HG
    What is the main difference between the IPSS and DSIPSS? Since both are not brought out to the open like the IPPS , what differentiates them?
    Thank you for another wonderful article always spot on and magnificently written!!!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you.

      An IPSS can be brought out into the open. Indeed a Candidate IPSS meets the family, friends, is paraded around etc.
      A Shelf IPSS may meet family and friends as well (albeit under the mantle of ‘friend’) or sometimes this person as a mistress is regarded as an open secret.

      The DLS is kept in a box away from everybody else. The worlds are kept very separate.

      1. Victoria says:

        Thank U HD this really clarified my question although I just learned something new I never knew that an IPSS was ever brought into the open to meet family or friends while being in an ongoing relationship with an IP PS. Thanks again😊

      2. Peekay says:

        If this is the case then (having been with my N for seven years)…one can go from an IPSS to a DLS or vice versa depending on where the N is in his search for a primary source. I have currently been discarded because my N got enraged by my texting too much when he must have been with his primary source and he feared my exposure as DLS to her…I was called crazy, told to never call his f-ing phone again and have been discarded All while just having been told three days prior I could rely on him as a true friend and he would always be here for me. I guess as having been demoted to DLS I willl finally be discarded for good…and I am taking this as a sign to finally escape.

  16. AH OH says:

    I have been a secret but never a Dirty little secret. Never did I do anything I did not want and I was in it for gain too. It was a secret due to the fact I was the Mistress. I never wanted them to leave for me and it was always a mutual agreement. I still have contact with one as we have always been friends.

  17. 12345 says:

    I was a dirty secret for 10 years all together and I always felt dirty. Asking me to do things sexually was THE worst. His favorite was to ask me to participate in a threesome. I have absolutely nothing against that if that’s what you like but I knew he would use another woman in that scenario to make me feel ugly, inadequate sexually, unwanted and unworthy and then triangulate after it was over. I honestly believed it would take a piece of my soul that I could never get back. Thankfully I never found out if that was true. I have no doubt this happens with primary sources as well. I think anything to degrade with any source is a weapon for the narc.

  18. SVR says:

    Thank you. Now I understand.

  19. K says:

    Primary sources can be a secret too.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      To you yes, but not to everyone else.

  20. Laurie says:

    Much needed article, HG.

  21. Sophia says:

    IPPS turned dirty little secret. How common is that?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is not common but it can happen.

      1. Sophia says:

        I didn’t realize that’s what I had become until reading this article. I didn’t imagine it was common.

      2. sarabella says:

        Why not?

    2. Peekay says:

      Yes I think so…an IPPS and an IPSS can become A DLS

      1. Yolo says:

        Where??? In a new environment or state? The IPPS usually is known to inner circle, family or coworkers. Maybe in a its complicated kinda way(love that movie) the interactions may be a secrect but not the person.

      2. Peekay says:


        Right under everyone’s noses…the IPPS gets discarded then for fear of losing the N she accepts the role as other woman. So while the family friends etc think the couple have broken up..the N and the now DLS continue to be together.

        1. Yolo says:

          I was speaking the terms HG uses to define the DLS and IPPS. Maybe, i am unclear on the roles and description.

      3. Peekay says:

        Whatever the title …the appliance is being hurt..and they all mean very little or nothing to the N.

      4. Sophia says:

        Do you say that because you’ve been one or had one?

      5. Peekay says:

        I was an IPSS turned IPPS demoted to DLS…all in the past 7 years with the same N and now he has discarded me once more and probably for all bc I didn’t behave like a good little DLS…

        1. Yolo says:

          Did he ever discard you when you were IPSS? Sounds like a horrible game of musical chairs or any, many,mighty, moe.

      6. Peekay says:

        Yes. He has always disengaged with me through 1-3 week silent treatments or withdrawals through every stage…this time is differrnt though because he has not responded to texts at all…he has usually responded even if it is to devalue me. This is why I believe this to be a final discard after 7 years.

  22. MLA - Clarece says:

    So many misogynistic views directed at this individual whether being used as a friend or intimately. Saved for “debauchery” acts that maybe the IPPS would never do for you but can’t be ruffled because of the facade. Referred to as the dependable, loyal “dog” sitting and waiting in the corner of the kitchen? A “filthy whore”? Every action to keep them in their place, again and again reminding they are a “dirty little secret”. You can’t just say a secret? They seem to be exploding with the right fuel and traits you crave and that you are even addicted to. Yet for the shallowest of reasons such as appearance or a bit of social awkwardness you seem it acceptable to create this one sided self serving existence?
    You think mainly just doling out a lot of future faking to keep them in place is rarely abusive?
    This is the person who probably sees your filthy wants and desires the most. This person has to be the safe security box for you to deposit your rancid acts on and serve as your outlet in complete isolation absorbing your vileness like a sponge. Where you can keep your precious, crisp, and CLEAN image safe to your facade world, this person truly gets the real you. You, plus your abusers and what they did.
    This person suffers immensely. The false hope you deliver from start to finish. The trauma bonding because she is probably pushed to the limits of sexual acts she never dreamed of trying but does so convincing herself it is out of love. The loss of all self esteem being chipped away at always being cast aside with an excuse why it’s still not them being chosen to be by your side in public. This is split black and white, clean vs dirty compartmentalization at its finest. It is the most shameful acts to treat another human adult this way. Sadly what the “secret” person probably thinks initially is they are just involved with a highly intense, primal, and exciting relationship. Not at all that they are being viewed as a dirty animal that could be locked away in that security box at any time and forgotten with all the garbage they absorbed from you.

    1. sarabella says:

      wow. poweful. so true. luckily I always had enough access to breaks to never let anything get as far as being so totally repeatedly sexually violated. But I have read some of the most crushing stories. He was trying to send it that way though. He did a few things for me to imagine what he was doing to people as you described. And then I heard someone descibes photos he had seen of him. She did not describe them and I was too afraid to ask as they seemed really traumatic to her. That alone was enough for me to know it was really bad.

      MLA, You wrote this so well and I feel your anger and rage.

      1. MLA - Clarece says:

        Thanks Sarabella!! Just wrote from the heart. HG had a lot of triggers in this one that made that easy.

    2. Yolo says:

      I tend to disagree. This area is were I struggle the most. You are (not you) the secret. You will not become part of our inner circle, i will use yiu for sex, we arent good together other than a booty call and anything else i can con you out of. The future faking is vague and doesnt imply you are next. As a matter of fact i have decided to move on with my wife or someone else.

      In contrast to where have you been all my life. You totally understand me , my ex couldnt have kids but i still accepted that but she could not, after a couple years of counsel we decide to break up amicably.

      Then here you come after months of prayers , I am a widow or divorcee( either could be a lie). I want to take it easy this time no sex before marriage, we have alot of things in common i am single and the only woman i desire is you.

      Both were manipulated, but the first scenario gives an option to flee. The latter as well, however the scam and con game is more prevalent in the latter.

      Their perception for the dirty little secret never change. Once the label is attached you cant progress to IPPS unless there’s no options.

      My opinion, no scientificevidence or basis.

      1. MLA - Clarece says:

        I didn’t realize my personal experience that left me despondent and barely functioning 2 summers ago before finding HG’s work, doesn’t hold up scientifically with you to count as real.

    3. Love says:

      Clarece, I love your comment! As I was reading what you wrote, I was thinking, wow, the dirty little secret is quite powerful.
      “The (dirty little secret) seems to be exploding with the right fuel and traits you crave and that you are even addicted to… this person truly gets the real you.”
      She is not only his dirty secret, but she holds the secret to him.
      She has the power to destroy him!
      Of course, given the emotional bond, most DLS never would. But if they only knew how important they were – the things they could do.

      1. MLA - Clarece says:

        Thank you Love! She has the power to wound, but I don’t know about destroying. Because of how well she is isolated from the people he is connected with in his constructed facade, he is well positioned to instantly start a smear campaign at any sign of trouble from her and she won’t be believed.
        She’s his garbage disposal for secrets.

      2. Yolo says:

        A relationship with a narc is fake. The dirty little secret has no power other than providing fuel negative at that. Really, if you are non existent to the narc family or friends dont know you. How much damage can you really do? Its their word against a psycho nobody stalker thats looking to destroy him because he denied her advances. I dont recall citing scientific evidence but said my own opinions.

        Again, the DLS doesn’t in my opinion suffer more than the IPPS..The mask is usually unveiled sooner. If you cant call after 9, no visits during the holidays. Future faking from the con artist is accepted for years? We all suffer, grieve, pain, process our experiences differently as well as our recovery times vary.

        To eaches own.

        But being told you are the only one, begging for respite and time alone for 3 years. The stalking, accusations, timing your trips, only expecting you to attend their family functions, instilling fear in you by filing fake police reports. (Spot a.man on side of house, torn screen, triangulation and gas lighting.

        I begged this person to leave filed protective orders which were thrown out due to lack of evidence.

        As a dirty little secret. They tend to exhibit both narc and sociopathic traits. Its deal with it or get the f*** own. Witness in my own family.

      3. gabbanzobean says:

        I can relate to this viewpoint very much so as a DLS. I could destroy his life and façade very easily. But I won’t. 🙁

    4. Tiddlywink says:

      MLA.. u hit the nail on the head.. this sounds all so familiar..my N treated his ‘secret’ sources the same way..i still cannot fathom how narcs get away with it and how their IPPS sees them as good people without a cruel bone in their body .. praising them and stroking their egos constantly and yet the IPSS (all of them probably simultaneously) get treated like dirt as soon as their devaluation starts .. and oh how it starts and how it hurts. I woke up to his lies after a few months of questioning him but never got a straight answer .. not even once. His girlfriend of almost 10 years still has no idea about his alter ego but after 5 months I knew exactly what he was.. a lying cheating cruel self centred creep who uses people when and how he pleases all the while going back home to ‘wifey’ who thinks he has just been at work or away for the weekend for some rest and relaxation with the boys. You are right about the compartmentalisation.. switches from one to another without a thought..to use people like this is sickening….no doubt he had other DLS the whole time too …

    5. gabbanzobean says:

      I was the intimate dirty little secret. 🙁

      1. ng27 says:

        I was too and the lasting effects of coming to that realization are unexplainable. Im sorry for what you went through

    6. Narc affair says:

      Great post mla! I think too there are those DLS that know they are but are so desperate not to lose the narc they stay hidden and accept the treatment. However ive seen instances where eventually a DLS realises how theyve been suckered and used and they become the dirty little retaliator and set out to expose their abuser.
      The DLS i think is someone the narc has the least respect for and knows they can toss away and replace in a heartbeat. They have zero intention of ever having them in their day to day life. They are the extra bit on the side. In the end all the sources are just bits of supply source to fill up the narcs continually empty tank.

      1. MLA - Clarece says:

        @NA and @Tiddlywink – That is why in my humble opinion the DLS is on the receiving end of the worst. I think NA is right that they are least respected by the Narc. For the Narcs, this is their “Genie in a Bottle”. This ONE is chosen for his outlet of how his anger, deviations, mindfuckery, or whatever can be funneled and the rest of his life is kept clean. He doesn’t have to respect her. He just has to keep her contained and let her out upon demand when needed.

      2. sarabella says:

        The same is for the primary who knows there is a secret somewhere but cannot admit it. Both women are getting the shaft but for different reasons. Can the primary hold her head up higher just beause she is the public one? Maybe and maybe she had bargained away part of her soul, too.

        I know he wanted to stear me in a dirty direction but it really didn’t work. He wasn’t even worth it to be his secret. If he had had a decent body and didn’t look so ill… but I can imagine what he put women through when he was younger in the years we were not in touch, as he is very handsome and has powerful features. But he has no mojo now other I had feelings. No woman or girl is going to stay around long for that aging sick looking narc.

        Someone made me their secret once years and years ago, so even though I was not seeing so clearly the parralels with this one as I was caught in deep old emotions, enough bells rang for me to start fighting back. my heart goes to all of you who were stuck so deeply in this part of it.

      3. Yolo says:


    7. Mercy says:

      MLA, those were some very powerful words and I can feel your pain. I am not a secret because I am part of his inner circle but I have been manipulated into doing sexual acts that I wasn’t comfortable with. I put a stop to it because in the end it’s my choice and guess what…he didn’t go anywhere. But now I get to hear everything, I know every dirty detail of his life. So your analogy of a “security box to hold all your vile acts” hit the nail on the head for me but I don’t think that it’s reserved for only the DLS. I struggle with my “title”. I’m not sure who I am because I serve so many purposes for him. I am slowly understanding the many layers of a narcissisist life and I have scheduled a consultation with HG in hopes he can shed some light on it for me.

      One thing that comes to mind while we all debate who is subjected to the worst abuse from our narc is words that HG said not to long ago in a comment. “I hate everyone equally”. These words could have been spoken by my narc. In my opinion, it’s about how much abuse an individual can endure, not which title they fall under…just a thought.

      1. MLA - Clarece says:

        Hello Mercy,
        I do agree that any source of supply can be subjected to this form of abuse and definitely feel like the security box for their vile acts.
        Pain is pain. We have all suffered. I absolutely don’t want anyone to think I impune their situation underneath this type.
        Since this article was specifically about a DLS, I was forming my response around that subject. JN was not married. To date, he does not have a primary (4-1/2 yrs) . But for as long as he had invested in resurfacing to me because of my fuel to him, I can never fit into any future scenario being an older, single mom. That will never fly with his All American Catholic, all-about-family image to bring home to mom and dad, or his alum circle of friends from the University.
        I was also grilling HG about his verbiage in his article. Yes, he writes to encompass all Narcs generally speaking to many times give blanket coverage to their forms of abuse.
        But in this particular piece he reinforced several times very misogynistic adjectives for this person’s role. Why keep repeating “dirty little secret”? Can’t “Secret” just suffice? Why is she such a “filthy whore” rather than the “smitten kitten” or his “minx”. So that personal choice in wording came from HG’s core and I’m trying to determine why in his mind this person in this role is like a subhuman compared to a clean IPPS that’s maybe in their golden period. The only real difference between the two women could be as trivial as one is prettier than the “Secret” in his eyes only. Character traits would be high in both or he wouldn’t waste his time.
        I got JN to admit in the last month that no one has ever looked at him the way I did. But no one in his family or circle of friends will ever know that that’s why he still sniffs around my door for close to five years.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          He told you nobody has ever looked at him the way you did. How many times do you think he has said that elsewhere? Why do you think he keeps sniffing around ? For fuel – and he gets it. Your inherent truth seeking, understandable as it is, keeps you locked in the desire of getting admissions (which he will make when it suits him to get what he wants, they are not genuine) and not only that the truth seeking is evident in terms of your last sentence about his family and friends – the desire for them to know the truth. As you know it will not matter to them. A good example of how the truth seeking trait overrides cool, hard logic.

          1. MLA - Clarece says:

            Whoaaaa HG! Why are you sounding so disgruntled? Lol
            I merely pointed out the exchange with JN today to show “DLS’s” can be in other situations besides being involved with someone who is married or spoken for too.
            I have no doubt of JN’s ability to come up with his one liners. I did recognize it was solely related to fuel and not because there is real bonding towards me.
            Nice move though deflecting to yet another outstanding learning opportunity I created in being a truth seeker while still avoiding my question on your harsh verbiage describing the DLS. Well done HG! xo

          2. HG Tudor says:

            I am not disgruntled, I was pointing out the nature of your ongoing interaction. There was nothing to deflect. The use of the language speaks for itself.

          3. MLA - Clarece says:

            Ok HG

      2. Mercy says:

        Look at it this way MLA (just trying to help you see it another way)

        “Favorite appliance” That’s golden girl. This title is unflattering and degrading as well.

        Narcs just suck! Don’t let words get in your way.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          We may suck, but empaths swallow.

          1. C★ says:

            you bad bad boy!!! You are so bad you are good…

          2. Yolo says:

            Well damn HG. According to some posters Narcs swallow too. 😊 Why are going so hard her? Is it because your expectations of her are higher?

            One thing for sure if you fail with a narc,(no contact, blindsided) the tests will continue until we pass it.

            😊 I would say you are in rare form, but, I am sure it’s true form.😊

          3. MLA - Clarece says:

            Girls rule and boys drool.

      3. Mercy says:

        Hahaha you win as always HG. Love it!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          True and it has to be that way.

      4. Mary says:

        My married narc told me of all his lovers online that I was his favorite. He said the reason I was his fave and why he “loved” me was because I say yes to everything and he’s free to do anything and say anything with me. (We only did this stuff in fantasy so I could say yes to things I wouldn’t do in person.) When he was being “free” to say anything with me, he could get pretty degrading at times. He projected onto me a lot. Yet he said in his fave.

        HG, can a “favorite appliance” and Dirty Little Secret be one in the same?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are all our favourites. Until you are not.

    8. Indy says:

      Hi MLA,
      I can feel your pain, it is horrible abuse to be treated as an object. One that can be put in its box until he/she needs that intense fix. The massive rush.

      Are his terms misogynistic, yes for sure. I think the term “dirty” reflects more on the narcissist than on the hidden parter, to be honest. And i think HGs explanation is brutal, necessarily, to make us reject anyone that tries to put us in that horrible box in the future. So we say,” go to hell fucker” rather than hang on hope. I now want to beat up JN for you!!! Grrrrrr

      I think you are right that this secret is sometimes like a vessel that holds those secrets too and that all that he/she feels dirty about is contained like this…dirt possibly from past traumas in some…..others addiction. One is never enough. I also think of this as like the person that keeps his drinking appropriate until he is able to hide and pull out that needle. It’s a fix. Those narcissists are snorting us up like cocaine. That glass of Pinot Noir is socially acceptable but that heroine is not. An extra fix to boost the drink. An extra dollop of fuel to boost the primary and secondary. “I’m not an addict, look I have wine occasionally”…as he stashes the needle in the trash. I’ve been with several true addicts, this is addict behavior. I used to think, “if you relapse, you don’t love me. “…I used to think he cheated on me with oxy and Percocet.

      It wasn’t about me in the end, ever.
      It isn’t about you, MLA. It’s him and his inability to be genuine. He’s an addict. The dirt is his. There is a seeeping ritual some people do to sweep them out of our lives. I’m imagining JN swept out. He’s the dirt, Clarece.

      1. Mercy says:

        Indy, I do not mean to break into your convo with MLA but that was very well said. I like the thought of this being “his dirt” and your thoughts on why HG has to put these titles in a brutal way.

        Congrats on your anniversary BTW!

      2. MLA - Clarece says:

        Hi Indy!! Happy 4th to you! I always appreciate hearing from you. You are awesome at always validating someone’s thoughts no matter how big, small, corny, profound, whatever. I value that so much about you.
        I liked your interpretation, a lot, that HG’s harsh verbiage should be a tool to transfer and repel to current Narc and any future Narc. I can be very responsive to that seeing it in that light.
        At a very low point when JN must have been devaluing me (unbeknownst to me yet, pre-HG) he was requesting some untasteful things, mixed in with future faking and maybe a dash of the thrill factor still left. However on one particular day, I had to drop off my daughter at the hospital to her Dad with his new wife and in-laws there to welcome the birth of her new baby sister. Like literally walk her to the maternity floor to find them (because she was too young at 9 to just do a drop off that hospital curb and the ex couldn’t leave the floor (?) Such a surreal moment for me, and especially since JN knew how much I wanted another baby after my divorce, it was very easy to manipulate me on a day when I would welcome any fucking distraction to not think about my first husband bringing a new life into the world that my daughter will also be connected to and I can’t. It was moments like that, that kept coming closer together and I just wanted to fix. And then also just tune out and forget other things. It is a very twisted, sick “fix” for one to need that off exploiting a painful vulnerability of someone else.
        It took one of the longer silent treatments to connect the dots on why I was going along with demeaning requests. It was usually when dealing with coping on things like the re-marriage and new babies for my ex-husband and also having to downsize and move out of the house I loved staying in with my daughter for a few years post divorce. JN is wrapped up in my head with so much of the tsunami drowning grief I was experiencing on a lot of levels daily.

        1. Indy says:

          Hi MLA,
          Indeed, it was like a tsunami of grief for you, all piled up. You were grieving many things all at once, deeply important life goals and values to you-family. It was s lot of loss….
          and where was JN in your time of need? *poof* pulled the magic disappearing act. His actions made your pain so much more raw. They (narcs) seem to have that timing, lack of accountability and commitment when it is us in need. I can relate to what you said about timing and connecting the dots. I started realizing the ex was possibly a narcissist when he disappeared during my times of need as well. I had major surgery (one that I could barely walk after) and was out on medical leave for 6 weeks. A man that asked me to marry him, professing deep love Blahhh blahhh fuckin blahhh .,he did so little for me post op and was not caretaking at all. In fact, my first day home he dumped his kitten on me to care for as he couldn’t manage it with his dog at his home. (Rolls eyes) meanwhile, I had hysterectomy. No biggy. Jack ass. Glad I never married him.

          I now look at my kitty and think should nickname him “ever-presence”😂 In honor of the teachings from HG. Though I think it would be misinterpreted, as cats do follow their owners everywhere, even to the rest room.

          Happy 4th to you MLA and thank you for your kindness toward me as well. You were one of the first people that made me feel welcome here a year ago. (Hugs)

    9. gabbanzobean says:

      I am/was a DSIPSS.

      “Pushed to the limits of sexual acts never even dreamed of, convincing myself it is done out of love.”

      Yep. 🙁 😕

    10. MLA - Clarece says:

      It was very interesting going back and reading my comments from June the first time you posted DLS. A lot of the ongoing conversation with Gabrielle, Narc Affair and Insatiable Learner today suffer the after shocks repeatedly of being assigned the role of DLS. I was very much simmering here and a few months later finally hit the threshold that I was done. This was absolutely a title I never wanted nor deserve. Therefore I can’t allow myself to keep acting like I’m auditioning to keep the role and just keep a place on a lonely shelf.
      I think part of the trauma bonding with me caused me to desperately be validated by JN. To have him acknowledge that no one had loved him as intensely as me. It would be nice to know if he feels an actual void where my voice was once always begging and pleading for him, but I can say I don’t care and completely fine with not knowing that too.

    11. W says:

      Jeepers your description was worse than his!! Lol

  23. C★ says:

    i have never been a “DSIPSS”… no right straight from IPSS quickly to IPPS…. i guess this should give me some sense of self esteem? It does not…but i played a part in it as well, my bad….

  24. Nicole says:

    I was discarded in March by my ex fiancé. I have been NC. I have even moved and changed jobs. Is it likely that he will try to Hoover me on my birthday? My birthday is July 4th so it’s hard to forget. I have read pretty much all of your books and I feel like he will probably try something even though he has most likely “deleted” me. Do you think I will cross his 6th sphere since my birthday is so memorable or does that not matter?

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