Putting A Sex on You


I was in session with Dr E.

“So,” I asked, “what is today’s topic for discussion?”

“Sex,” he replied.

“Do I have to talk about this with you?”

He pushed his spectacles back.

“You do not have to talk about anything, but I would hope you would discuss this with me.”

“Can’t I talk to Dr O about sex?”

“Why? Are you uncomfortable discussing sex with another man?” he asked. I could see he had his pen poised ready to make a note.

“Not at all. Sorry, doctor but there is no homophobia about me.”

“What makes you say that?”

“Well you were about to suggest that my reluctance to discuss matters of sex with you denotes a homophobic trait on my part.”

“Not at all, that would be prejudging you and an unsafe basis for analysis.”

“I don’t believe you,” I replied.

“Why would you rather discuss sex with Dr O?” he asked. He showed no sign of irritation or disappointment at my preference.

“I would be interested to learn her views about sex. She is so pristine and clinical when I see her, I want to know what goes on under the bonnet.”

“These sessions are about you not us,” said Dr E.

“Don’t worry Dr E I have no interest in whether you apply nettles to your scrotum or whatever it is you do to excite yourself.”

“Is that something you have done?” he asked.

“No but I have used them on someone else.”

“Male or female?”



“The stinging sensation across the nipples or the inner thighs of course hurts but then that gives way to a delicious flood of pleasure when combined with the application of my tongue.”

Dr E was scribbling.

“I see, so you enjoy the fact it hurts the other person and then becomes pleasurable for her?”


“Please do expand.”

“Will I get to talk about sex with Dr O?” I asked, shifting topic.

“On some aspects of sex, yes,” replied Dr E. I smiled.

“Good. Very well since that is going to happen and I will hold you to that promise Dr E, I will expand on my point.”

“I do it because the issue of that person’s pain and then pleasure is entirely at my gift. I control it and that appeals to me considerably.”

“So control in an sexual encounter is important to you?” asked Dr E.

“Control is the sexual encounter for me. I have little interest in my own sexual gratification, yes it feels pleasant when I orgasm but ultimately I can do that myself and invariably with more intense results. I have even less interest in the sexual gratification of another person. Denying them that sexual gratification? Now that is far more enjoyable than granting them their release. Sex is all about control. I am highly skilled in between the sheets.”

“Is that your conclusion or of others?”

“Both. You see I know how people think, I know how they react and I have had many sexual encounters with many different people. There are vast numbers of different permutations when it comes to what satisfies a person and no two people are the same.  I am like a super computer. I can rattle through the various combinations until I hit the right approach which will send my bedroom companion into orbit. I am willing to apply every part of my body, every facet of my sexual knowledge in order to make that person feel utterly orgasmic. That gives me huge control over them and makes me very powerful. I know what turns them on, what makes them moan and scream and shudder in orgasmic bliss. I use this massively powerful ability of mine to bring them under my spell. Once that is done I will grant it and deny it as and when I see fit. I will purposefully do the things that does not arouse them in order to make them react. I will caress a partner in a public place and whisper in their ear that if they show any kind of reaction to what I am doing I will stop and deny them any sexual congress for an indefinite period. This gives them an earth shattering orgasm and underlines my control over them. I will interrupt a row with a girlfriend by taking her against the kitchen workbench. She soon forgets what the argument was about as I have her moaning in delight before I just walk off before she climaxes. Imagine how she follows me about the house begging for me to “finish her off”? Think of the promises she makes just to feel me inside her again? That is control. That is power. I work out a person’s sexual key code and deliver heaven. They find that addictive and want it so much. I find the power attached to this ability addictive. When you go to bed with me you are getting the best. Nobody afterwards will come close to what I give you.”

There was a long pause as Dr E jotted down my words. He looked a little flustered to me. I wished it was Dr O sat there instead.

“Do you think a sexual encounter should be about something other than control?”

I laughed at this comment,

“Heavens no, that is its only function. It is an instrument, like so many other things, to bring you under my spell, but I must admit, it is probably one of the most potent and effective instruments. Sex is actually rather boring but controlling the reaction and emotions of another person, well, now that is far more interesting.”

“Have you ever wondered what it would be like to give up that control and allow yourself to be enveloped in the ‘moment’ with the other person?” asked Dr E.

“No I cannot give up control. You see, I know there are those that engage in being tied up and punished, you know smacked with an open hand or a cane. They may get a sexual reaction from being treated like this but the real reason they do it is that they are giving up control. I had a girlfriend who was very submissive and allowed me to do…well I will let you use your imagination there doctor, but she wanted zero control. She was high up in a bank and responsible for millions of pounds and hundreds of employees and she wanted to be divested of that responsibility and give up her control if only for an hour or two. I found her explanation interesting but I could not understand it. Why give up control? Why surrender something you have worked hard to achieve? Control is the ultimate aim of taking someone to bed. I control them in that bed and the spell I put on them means that control extends far beyond the bedroom, such is its power.”

Dr E nodded and continued writing.

“What if you lost your sexual potency? What if you became impotent?” he asked.

“Why would that happen?”

“Plenty of reasons. Alcohol abuse, substance abuse, diabetes, age, anxiety. There are many reasons why this could happen.”

I shook my head.

“People like me don’t suffer that. God gave me the gift of sexual brilliance to further my purposes, He would not take it away from me.”

“But if it did happen, what would you do? How would you manage with such a loss of this marvellous instrument of control?”

“Are you taking the piss now doctor?” I snapped.

“Not at all. Just posing a relevant question aligned to your desire for control.”

“Listen doctor, don’t project your problems in that department onto me, okay?”

Dr E remained silent. I copied him an just sat in silence glaring at him. How dare he suggest I would lose my potency? What an idiot. He ought to know better than that by now. I kept staring at him waiting for his next clever remark but he just stared back. This stand-off went on for a few minutes but I knew he would look away first. I maintained my baleful gaze as the fury at his impertinence coursed through me and then he lowered his eyes to his black and red notepad and made some more notes. I had won.

“Not so cocky now are we doctor?” I muttered under my breath.

Learn more about the narcissist’s view of sex in the ground-breaking book available here

228 thoughts on “Putting A Sex on You

  1. Emma286 says:

    I gather Dr E and Dr O are supposed to know about this website.

    Would they come forward in public to confirm they really are your doctors? They wouldn’t have to reveal your true identity to do so. If they are real, surely they shouldn’t have anything to hide?

    If not, why not?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      They are real, they do not have to confirm anything, but they would not do so for a variety of reasons.

  2. Gurpreetgrewal09 says:

    Hi! I really like your article, I liked the way you describe it in detail.

    Thanks for sharing.

    I would really appreciate it, if you see my (redacted as plugging an irrelevant site)
    Thanks once again

    Such an amazing article.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thanks. I will take the praise and reject your self-advertisement.

  3. Renarde says:

    Sooo..(he he!), in light of our esteemed PUA, T. S. ‘Elliot’. I dids’t just dive down the proverbial rabbit hole today.

    Mills & Boon. Hand on heart, never ready any of these esteemed tomes. I did wonder though, if there was an opening for ‘Elliot’.

    Turns out there is! New writers are invited to submit the usual. Plot synopsis, first three chapters. Word
    In two copies (why???).

    There are categories now, such as Modern, True Love, Medical (What? That sounds dodgy as), Dare, Historical etc.

    I checked out a few of the precis. What do they want?

    It’s not so much as what they want, it’s what they need. Which is a damn good proof-reader. I spotted;

    Run on sentences
    Poor formatting in the HTML
    Use of language such as ‘intense’, ‘fresh’ (this one cropped up alot)
    ‘sensual'(Oh dear God) but not ‘erotic’ (Well that’s me out then!)

    After laughing myself stupid for quite some considerable stretch of time, I was intrigued as to how the company came about.

    Then, I spy very VERY serious misdemeanors against the English language.

    Some of you may have noticed this in your own email correspondences. It’s the gratuitous use of the hyphen coupled with ellipses.

    You see it in ‘Elliot’s’ post. It’s an informal way the language is turning. That’s ok in an email with your mates but seriously un-good in a Publishing House. On their website too!

    In their ‘About Us’ section. How embarrassing!

    I don’t take issue with the genre. Bored housewives et al. I take issue with sloppiness.

    I do not know if M&B have completely moved off trad. print and onto e-books in totality, but when I was a nipper, I used to see them all lined up on my local library shelf.

    A vague shudder of disgust crept over me before running to the ‘Occult’ section. And Shirley Conran.

    So NS. If you can conjure up 50K vis a vis a romantic, fresh, original, fresh, sensual, intimate, fresh, gripping and exciting story; you could be well in. (No willies or girly bits).

    I’m thinking of doing it for a dare.

    P.S No Westerns.

    P.P.S And dont forget the hyphens.

    1. truthseeker6157 says:

      No Westerns you say? How shall I ever find my cowboy hat wearing hero?!

      Please don’t ever look at my grammar and punctuation. Seriously, just don’t. Ha Ha.

      1. Renarde says:

        Oh and in addition to Westerns, we can add ‘Sheiks’. That’s a great pity as I had a wicked idea…

        1. truthseeker6157 says:

          Did your wicked idea involve tangerine swim shorts with a cowboy hat at the side?
          Or was that just my wicked idea?


  4. Ts cheema says:

    Ren-Thanks for your good guidelines

  5. Ts cheema says:

    I welcome of any single word,,,, who said for me

  6. Ts cheema says:

    Really 😬

  7. Ts cheema says:

    Actually I don’t know who is he & she 😂😂😂😂😂😂

  8. Ts cheema says:

    If I heart to any he or she,,,, I am sorry,,,, forgive me please

  9. Ts cheema says:

    All my dear friends,,,,,,, ren,,, he,,,, 6157,,,,as,,,,,,,et,,,,, actually I jumped in conversation without reading blog 😎

    1. Ren says:

      Dear T. S ‘Elliot’

      I’ve been concerned about you. So I took the liberty of submitting an overview of your latest romantic novel to M&B.

      I’m very sad to inform you that it was rejected. As follows.

      Dear Mr Elliot

      We regret to inform you that we are unable to proceed with your manuscript. These are the reasons

      1 – M&B pridez demselves (since 1918), on being a purveyor of quality romantix litraturrree. Unfortunately, UR submission is far 2 sacchareene to publisz.

      Tone needz 2 B tightened. Bit more fun n sexy times n ting. Watch de punctuations.

      2 – It. Is. Shit

      Mr Elliot, if you tighten the MS up, perhaps ‘freshen’ it, we would be happy to reppraise.

      Yours Sincerely

      I. P Nightly
      Head of Submissions

      So, TS, there you go.

      I do hope that’s not been distressing to read? I, however, will need extra therapy after reading your latest posts on NS.

      Love and kisses as always,


  10. Ts cheema says:

    Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, good good good……
    As your country time zone……..

  11. Eternity says:

    Kiki, sorry I have a hard time replying to your message so I stared from scratch
    I know what you are going through dont be sorry honey ,. Things get so tough when dealing with these people. You have managed to get away I am so happy for you. Our ET is always going to pull us back right from the beginning like a rope. I have spent years crying and I still do. I tried to get away so many times. I am back to square one. I feel useless , tired, I have no strength.,no energy and this Covid 19 set me back. I pray all goes well for you and many others on the blog. Take care

  12. Kim e says:

    Hnag in there girl. It will get better. I promise. The beginning is the hardest. Your logic is already working telling you what will happen if you go back AND you came here instead so that is a step forward…2baby steps, but a step. If you can go for a walk…yell at the top of your lungs……eat a cookie…anythingto get your mind off it
    Yes. I think a consult with HG is in order.
    Take care of your self.

    1. Kiki says:

      Thank you so much .
      It’s the no contact I’m really struggling with , will I won’t I message him , this thought is draining me .
      I met with some colleagues last night it was nice , they don’t know about the narc .
      I had to sit and smile and listen to their stories about buying new homes with their partners .
      I felt jealous and ridiculous.
      The What’s wrong with me starts kicking in .
      Even in no contact I stayed single , it’s like I can’t get out of this situation.
      Single lonely, with narc I’m happy , until the devalue , then pain .
      Why I even feel happy being a bit on the side is pathetic.Im prob a commitment phobe deep down.
      I suppose the narc knows my deepest fears , my real self and that keeps pulling me towards him.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Kiki, there is nothing wrong with you. This is your ET beating you up in order to make you focus on the narcissist, so you feed the addiction. You are not happy with the narcissist because

        1. When you view the relationship in totality, it is not a happy one , and
        2. The occasional moments of what you believe are happiness are founded on an illusion.

        You know you are dealing with a narcissist. This means deleting him through no contact and reducing your emotional thinking, that is your responsibility to yourself and until you implement this and do so properly and totally, nothing will alter. My help remains available.

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          HG, I really appreciate the wonderful constructive response you give here.

          I think they help us all when we read them.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            I know exactly how you can succeed. So I tell you.

        2. truthseeker6157 says:

          Kiki, What HG told you is so true. There’s nothing wrong with you at all, there isn’t. ET says, “Something is better than nothing. I’m not like the others. I won’t buy a new home with someone else.” Bollocks to that! That’s just not true! Something only appears better than nothing. You’d message, he’d reply, you would feel better for a time. Then the whole thing would descend into chaos and even more pain again. You know this. It has happened before. It just isn’t possible for us to to win with them. You are signing away months and years of your life to the wrong person.

          What is possible, is that you get out of it. Take time, get over it and start something good with someone good, who you likely haven’t even met yet! You will though. Once you get back to being you again. It does feel horrible just now. Hurts like hell. There is no decision to make here though. You can stop thinking about it now. Honestly, you are doing the right thing going no contact. Please talk to HG if you are able to do so. He’ll set you right. Try to stop battling with yourself please. X

          Well done on achieving 4 days No Contact! 😎

          1. Kiki says:

            Truth seeker thank you this is such a powerful message , your logic is good 😊
            Thank you I’m going to keep rereading this when I’m down


          2. truthseeker6157 says:

            I’m glad it helped. Keep talking when you need to. We’re all here. x

        3. Kiki says:

          That you HG , just saw this now , oops I’m debating on the other thread with you how narcs couldn’t handle Mars yikes 😬

      2. lickemtomorrow says:

        I do think those are some of our most vulnerable moments. When we see what others have and know that is what we want. We want to be in relationship, making those plans, seeing a future with someone in it. Then in walks the narc and all our problems are solved … not. It is the beginning of a rollercoaster ride which you got off for a reason, Kiki. As much as we long at times for relationship, the wrong relationship is far more devastating than no relationship. Even the minimal contact you have had has thrown you into confusion again. I really hope you take HG up on his offer of a chat. It will help to straighten your thoughts out and really the only narc to associate with is the one who tells you not to associate with narcs 🙂

      3. Kim says:

        Just checking up on you. How you doing?
        Stay strong but don’t beat yourself up
        We all have rough days

  13. Ren says:


    I do love the ‘sex educator’ Tracey Cox who writes in The Fail. She brings me much mirth and has been doing so for a couple of years now.

    Two points of intrest. The first is that she showed a video of her getting jiggy with partner to friends and ponders, did she overshare?

    The second is her pronouncement that one must never talk about kink with friends.

    Goodness, she does go from one extreme to the other.

    As always, the joy is in the comments.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      That is generous of you Renarde, to refer to her work of being of interest. She is an idiot and her work is ridiculous.

      1. Ren says:


        Beyond ridiculous.

        I often say, you learn more as a writer by watching the spectacular fails.

        And there have been many with ‘The Cox’. But what do we expect from The Fail?

        For example on writing, I happened across a female writer of erotica. I generally liked her so I read the work. Usually made good points on other subjects. Disclainer: you will never see me buying erotica, so this was unusual for me to take the time.

        In fact, i had to read it three times. And even at the end of it, I still couldn’t work out if she was ripping the piss or not.

        In the end, I felt she needed to be nominated for one of this ‘bad erotica’ awards. It was dire. I still have remnants of PTSD from it.

      2. Ren says:


        Oh! Thinky thoughts here! If only a few people on NS contributed 50 cents, we could forward her a copy of SATN?

  14. Eternity says:

    HG, I bet Dr. E had a field day with this one .

  15. Ts cheema says:

    Good article,,,,,,, I love English females,,,,, I think they are open minded

    1. lickemtomorrow says:

      I don’t think that’s what the article is about, but whatever floats your boat.

      1. Ts cheema says:

        It’s my mood now 😄😄😘

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          I’m sure it is.

          1. Ts cheema says:


    2. Ren says:


      Intresting comment. Like lickemtomorrow, I am struggling to understand the revelance.

      Care to expand?

      1. Ts cheema says:

        Ren-Actually I want to call English females

        1. HG Tudor says:

          So far, I think they will not pick up the phone.

          1. Ts cheema says:


        2. Ren says:


          Call English females what though?

          Tremendously beautiful, witty, intelligent and all round good eggs?

          Or something darker, more sinister…

          Boss. Are we at Hallowe’en, already?

          1. Ts cheema says:

            Ren- who in my destiny,,,, she will meet me one day,,,, I am sure,,, she will have great heart!!!!!!!!

          2. Violetta says:

            Look, Renny, a PUA!

            Will it neg us next? Or deploy a Wing Man?

            Which of us is the designated Cock-Blocker?

            Pass the pitcher. It’s gonna be a lonnnng night.

          3. Ren says:


            Oh goody! I’ve never had a PUA before!

          4. Ren says:


            With all this talk of ‘destiny’ and ‘hearts’; have you thought of channelling these cunning linguistic skills in writing?

            Maybe Mills & Boon have an opening?

            I’ll write the reference. Better still, ask Hg to do it.

        3. Eternity says:

          Are you on the right site?

      2. Eternity says:

        Rent, maybe he thinks Dr. E. Is a female

        1. Eternity says:

          Poops Ren not Rent , grrr! These typos on auto correct.

          1. Ren says:


            Ha ha! Missus! How do you know about my ‘alternate’ lifestyle?

            Goodness, don’t give him ideas!

      3. truthseeker6157 says:


        Are you implying HG is female?

        Ha ha, this reminds me of my student job in telesales where I’d get the weirdos on the line.

        “What are you wearing?”
        “Black basque, thigh length stiletto boots. You?”

        “What’s your name?”
        “ What do you want it to be?”

        I just never got bored in that job. Entertained myself all day.

        1. Ren says:


          Tbf, that is snarking at genious level.

          I salute you!

          1. truthseeker6157 says:

            *Fires up light sabre, gives it a swoosh*

        2. Alexissmith2016 says:

          Hahhah naughty TS and kept others entertained too no doubt.

          1. truthseeker6157 says:


            Easiest way to my bonus M&S voucher! I had draw fulls of M&S knickers when I worked there. 😂

          2. Ren says:


          3. Ts cheema says:


  16. Darth Renardus says:

    This just in. If anyone is ever in serious doubt how BAD and utterly SHAMEFUL some people can be. Here it is.

    I’m in the middle of a perfectly normal conversation with a female friend about how we are going to create our own mini festival and go camping.

    I remark, ‘How long will it be before we can go to a festival and get fucked in a field?’

    Now, to my mind the meaning is obvious. Not so to the cock waving NPDS.

    As follows.

    ‘Come, I’ll fuck you good and you’ll be begging me for more’

    I tell him to fuck off. And issue a perfect stream of invective. If I do say so myself. I get this,

    [Renarde] your dirty pussy that have green liquid coming out from it my nigga already ate you and he said you’re fucking smelling, yuh dirty asshole bitch, you can’t even bath clean I’m just having pity for this little boy call [My female friend] he’s(sic) just a homeboy and a pussy sucker.

    Later on…

    Sorry [Renarde], I didn’t mean to make you cry. Where are you?

    Soz bud. Was crying. In fucking laughter!

    A more sobering thought is that he is black amd my friend is white. He accused her of being ‘a racist bitch”. Nothing that I read was anything like that. She is not racist.

    However, a quick swizz round his profile suggests he has latent homosexual tendencies. Nowt wrong with that either. But his utterly vile misogyny suggests a man who is a Lesser, a Somatic, who is on the verge of losing control.

    I’m ok. Me bud is ok. Jesus! What kind of world do we live in?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Why are you having a conversation about planning something in your private life, in a place where others can see it, comment on it and engage? Presumably if you are planning a camping trip with the friend you have one another’s telephone numbers and can have a private conversation about it, rather than advertising it on some platform?

      This also demonstrates how, assuming the individual interrupting is a narcissist, does not accord the same interpretation as you and demonstrates the repeated error that victims make of assuming that the narcissist views the world through the same lens as the victim.

      1. Darth Renardus says:


        Wow. Have you spectacularly failed to understand my position or are you just “putting one one”.

        Hg, we only have one life. That is precious. Your points are valid and have been taken on board. Thank you.

        However, I utterly refuse to let semi-epsilon morons dictate to me how I live my life. Such as the man I referred to.

        What you are suggesting is that I go all hugger-mugger with friends. Fuck that. Fuck that right off.

        I am NOT doing anything wrong. Why should I curtail my online activity with folks because another/s can’t keep their dick in their pants?

        Not my problem. I laugh at them.

        Life means jack shit if how we are dictated to, to live our lives is by a prescribed pattern.

        That is no life at all.

        No person can kertow me. I will do as I please. But I thank you for your concern.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No. I understand you and your fragility far better than you realise. The content of your posts and comments demonstrates how high your ET is and how fragile you remain, despite your assertions to the contrary. It is clear to see.

          1. You did not answer my question. Why are you discussing something which you can discuss in private, in an online forum? To what end?
          2. Whilst it is admirable that you refuse to let epsilon semi-morons dictate how to live your life, you also, given your current person, should exercise caution and vigilance. You are taking an unnecessary risk. Perhaps when you have reduced your ET to a safe level you can engage with your friend about a private matter in a public forum (although I still do not see the logic of doing so, a telephone or text message would serve better) but at present you are necessarily exposing yourself to a risk. You believe that you are in a position to deal with this people head on – having such a belief demonstrates, in itself, that you are not.
          3. I do not understand what hugger mugger means.
          4. You are doing something wrong. You are in a position of fragility and you are exposing yourself to unnecessary risk by
          a. Engaging in this conversation in a place where you need not , and
          b. Then responding to the individual concerned. You believe you dealt with him with some invective, you did not, you gave him fuel, you suffered and adverse consequence and you increased you emotional thinking. You did not succeed. Your success would have been to ignore him. That is effective.
          5. You say you laugh at them, however the repeated outbursts I have witnessed show to the contrary. You become worked up, anger, upset and evangelical which often causes your points to be lost in a sea of emotional content.

          Yes it is your life and do as you please, however, you are adopting this position from a stance which is not logical and you need to obtain insight to see that despite your (apparent) bravado, you are far from recovered and you continue to engage in behaviours which are hindering your progress.

          I point this out from a dispassionate and objective position in order to assist you.

          1. Darth Renardus says:


            So I read this an my ET as you would say or my anger as I would say, went through the roof.

            Then I calmed down.

            I do thank you for your post though. I’ll answer your questions.

            1 – It was just a brief post. A bit of fun. No ones knows what we are up too. It was just a laugh.

            2 – Agreed and noted. I just find it REALLY hard that I cannot behave like other people do. I’m still human. I want to have friends, I want to have a good time, to have a laugh. I find it very difficult to accept that the one thing I need most is denied to me.

            Not being on SM is no guarantee that I wont be betrayed. Take Mr E for example and how uniform had to go round and present themselves. I could’ve gone down the criminal route for harassment.

            3 – Ha ha! It means people skulking in dark corners, whispering secrets to each other.

            4 a True

            4b – Nope. Never said that. I knew I was giving him fuel. I wanted to see how far he would go. That is the curiosity in me. The devil, if you will. Both my friend and I are getting bone tired of this. But let’s just argue the point here.

            As I have said above, coming of SM is zero guarantee that you wont be harassed. I mean, come on? Platonic friends for ten years and he turns on me? Who could’ve predicted that?

            5 – I’m confused. I dont percieve I reached the depths of true anger with this miscreant. I was more a bit annoyed and greatly amused.

            It’s all grist to the mill. But let’s talk about anger. It’s rare now I lose it. But I did the other day with my father. Of course I gave him fuel.

            Anger because of the way he has treated my mum, my brother and I. A thoroughly nasty, despicable, desperate and thoroughly evil human. Utter waste of oxygen. Malevolent doesnt even cut it.

            What The Fox wants; The Fox gets, aided and abetted by my stupid Mother.

            And by God, is she stupid.

            I’ve never met a narc who was as twisted as he. And that’s saying something. I’ve never met another human who is quite as dumb as her.

            I’m pretty sure that PN was in my FL profile. How fucking sick is that?

            I’ve fought, all of my life to have a voice. I never had one as a child. My emotions were denied as not being valid.

            Shut up! [slap] whore [slap] slut [slap]. Oh let’s pull down her knickers and give her a OTK [slap].

            Let’s oggle the 10 year old in her bikini.

            He IS a monster. His fuel supply is getting depleted now. The creature is making their face known. And it’s not pretty.

            So now I have to balance looking after my dim Mum against facing the nightmare of my childhood. Yes, I am angry.

            I am thoroughly ashamed that half of me is him. It’s like a stain. A stain I’m forever trying to recompense.

            I know that you are trying to help and I’m deeply grateful.

          2. duchessbea says:

            Powerful response HG and very true. I could have done with your wisdom and guidance earlier.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            It is a common refrain, DB, the important point is that you are here now. Pointless to lament what has happened.

          4. duchessbea says:

            That’s true HG, thank you. HG, I have just listened to a podcast that you did with Ask the Young One in 2019. Very insightful with a wealth of information. Made for very interesting listening.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed, plenty more to listen to.

        2. truthseeker6157 says:


          This is heartbreaking. Don’t think that half of you is your dad. He was there at the conception and messed up consistently after that. That’s the beginning and end of his relevance here.

          You are a mother and I’d hazard a guess a very good one. If one of your children was adversely affected by being around a particular person you would tell them to remove themselves from that influence. This is what your mum should be telling you.

          Are you able to go no contact with your dad? See your mum and family without him being there? It sounds like your dad is the problem here above all else. You are fighting battles to prove you can handle these gobshites online when you don’t need to. You have nothing to prove. You could buy and sell them without breaking a sweat. I know it, you know it. Don’t give them free fuel. They do not deserve it.

          This sounds like someone channeling their anger in one direction while the true target is actually your narc dad. You aren’t responsible for your mum. She’s a grown up. Point her in this direction. Print articles off for her and hand them to her. Then it’s up to her. I would never want a child of mine to stand in the firing line on my behalf. Neither would you. This is what you are doing with your mum though. Putting yourself in your dad’s influence whilst trying to protect her. It can’t be done Renarde x

          I don’t know your situation, I am fairly new here and can’t pretend to know you well enough to comment effectively. Those thoughts just seemed to fall out when I read your comment.

          Think about the motivation behind your actions, only you know.

          If it’s any consolation my ET is sky high too and I almost monumentally messed up myself this last week. Review, amend, push forwards. You are in my thoughts x

          1. Darth Renardus says:


            I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your kind words x

            Whenever I come across a narc, be it intimate, familiar or just a random, I always examine how I feel.

            I know you are new. I was once too. What kept throwing me off was Hgs descriptions of MRNs. They simply didnt accord with the two men who were the biggest influences in my life, my father and my ex husband.

            Did the NDC on the ex. UMS, with strands of psychopathy. Over these past few weeks, over many hours of conversation with my brother, I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that my father is a MRN but has strands of sociopathy. Cerebral.

            I cant even begin to describe his behaviour. Frankly, hes out of control.

            He rang my brother up very early this morning to rant at him.

            We are both agreed, we now function as a team. My mum, well, she’s in it for the money and stability. No, she doesnt care how he treats us. She might grumble at him but his word is God. I’m ashamed of her too.

            I have talked to her about Hgs work. Summer of 2018. She got it. That’s when she told me she wasnt in love with my Dad.

            I think Mum is a very typical MMRN. Som. Obsessed with my sex life. Dad, possibly a UMC. How I’ve gone from one to the other utterly defeats me.

            Oh btw, bro and I are pretty sure we’re only half siblings. We do not look alike. Not even remotely. My children do. The ex and his brother do. Come to think of it, mum and her sister didn’t look alike either…

          2. truthseeker6157 says:


            Any time at all, you want to let of steam, I’m always here to listen. I don’t claim to have the answers but I can claim to care. You have been dealt a crap hand and look what you have achieved in spite of it!

            You are doing so well. Make sure you take ownership of your progress and never let it be put in jeopardy. Your children, you, your brother, here is your focus. You can’t focus effectively if your parents are throwing you into a tailspin.

            Romantic narcs are in the past, reinforce the walls and ensure they stay there. A narc is a narc is a narc, all we really need to know is they are bad news. School and cadre are an academic exercise really if you are cutting them off.

            Mum and dad have to be their own responsibility. They made their choices, you are not responsible for them. You would never allow your own children to carry such a burden.

            Check your boundaries, replay and reinforce some of the learning material here too. Always good to take a refresher no matter how far into recovery you are. It’s sensible and a sign of strength.

            You are doing so well. Keep doing so well. You are my example!


          3. Ren says:


            Thankyou so very much!

            I’m a lot calmer than I was a week ago. Guess who helped,?

            Appreciate your words x

          4. truthseeker6157 says:


            That’s so good to hear. Glad you are getting back to being yourself x

        3. alexissmith2016 says:

          Hey Ren, I haven’t read the entirety of the comments on this but I don’t like to feel you so emotional and upset.

          re one of your points, Not being on SM is no guarantee that I wont be betrayed. I can honestly say I’ve not been on SM for a very long time now apart from linkedin which I rarely use or update to be honest and WA groups, I tend to only be on ones with large groups or small groups where there are absolutely no Ns, if there are Ns from the smaller ones I remove myself. I use no other SM at all well apart from narcsite. I don’t miss it at all. It makes meeting people for real far more interesting and I don’t get fed up by knowing what they’ve eaten for breakfast, lunch and dinner each day hahahah aside from all the bitching and sniping which goes on. If you are away from all that, your ET remains low the majority of the time so that on the occasions when I do have to engage with an N, even if my ET increases, it is very short lived and the sanctuary that is not using SM is a beautiful thing.

          I would urge anyone to do this. At first I also used to think, why should I, but I knew it was best. Now I think, why the hell would anyone want to be on SM? at all, ever.

      2. Kiki says:

        Eww this is a bit much , I hate when females are referred to as pussy in such a disgusting derogatory way.
        It’s female body shaming , this guy sounds like a simpleton ,a low class crass vile gross specimen.
        Why even associate with this .


        1. Eternity says:

          Kiki, he sounds like Lee The Lesser Narcissist.

    2. Kiki says:

      Oh I misread , this guy just sounds a vulgar low class specimen , prob not a narc though .
      I wouldn’t even have reacted to it Ren , too far below you .
      Plenty of those crass , uneducated lowlifes around , every corner has a few unfortunately


      1. NarcAngel says:

        I agree that he’s a crass and vulgar specimen. Thing is – it’s not just the crass and vulgar that cause damage and harm. The seemingly polite gentleman can cause just as much (probably more) with impeccable manners and a silver tongue and you never see it coming.

        1. Kiki says:

          Tell me about it NarcAngel , that is the narc I’m dealing with .
          So tempted to contact him today and say something, but I won’t I won’t .

        2. Kim e says:

          I agree 100000%. My N was so sweet and polite. Even if I knew what a N was at the time, not sure I would have pegged him. As I think back on it I believe he watched me for about 10 months before really starting to put himself into my world. I would see him (I am sure that was planned) and think “YUMMY” but then not see for a couple days/weeks. Setting the trap. Gave off a vibe of “I have been hurt before” but not in a woah is me kinda way.
          I wish he had been crass and vulgar….I would not have noticed and would have ran when approached.
          I know HG. Wish in one hand and blah blah blah

      2. Ren says:


        Absolutely correct, I shouldn’t have done. My ET has been sky high. It’s better now.

        Due to excellent advice from Hg, (which he has been repeating for some time), I’m nearly completely off SM excepting this place and FB.

        And even on there, a huge swathe of bpockings happened. FB Messanger threads deleted. I’ve not had any egregious ones for a while. If someone drops up on the feed who is attempting to sell me something, always women, always beauty shizzle: blocked.

        Funnily enough, I interact with a core who I know in real life. Obviously distance separates us.

        I have learned my lesson.

      3. Eternity says:

        Kiki, all talk no action .

        1. Kiki says:

          IEternity I’m not sure what this means , yes I can advise from an outside perspective,as I’m not involved that’s how I see we can help each other here.
          I’m invested emotionally in my own Narc disaster but others aren’t so can give clear logical advice to me and vice versa.

          Plus I don’t think Ren was involved in any way with the creep she described.
          I’m not sure if your comment was a slight on me but if it was please refrain from insulting me , I’m not here for that

          Thank you .

          1. Eternity says:

            Kiki, I definitely wasnt insulting you , if you think that I do apologize.
            I am also dealing with a Narcissist for many years myself so I completely understand .
            Please I was only saying how,some men talk about sex but they dont act on it and it is all for show .
            Take care

          2. Kiki says:

            Apologies Eternity
            My bad , I misread I’m hyper sensitive right now and feel like bursting into tears all day .I really am sorry .


          3. Kiki says:

            I’m struggling today , the urge to contact him is wearing me thin , I’m distracted , writing here to keep away from writing to him .Im rambling on but I feel overwhelmed right now .

            I know if I contact him where that’s going into a weird friend zone place on the shelf thing , that is a form of emotional suicide now.
            He will be in full control the other option is No contact and it’s killing me after 3 days .

            It’s ONLY been 3 days , Heaven forbid , I’m not in a good place I think I need a consult HG , anything to numb this down 😞😞

          4. Ren says:


            Just caught. You can do this!

            How they fuck with our minds, eh?

            Remember, every day you progress in life, you are another step away from the beginning when you first imposed NC.

            The progress you are making is astounding. You are caught up.in the Emotional Sea which is completely understandable.

            I can see you are making progress because you ate saying on here, I’m struggling not to make contact.

            Now to you, you may feel that’s an admission of weakness. Equally, you may not do. I do not want to judge.

            Tell you a story, love. Only today. I met a neighbour. Female. Her partner of three years had just walked out on her. She was barefoot. Cuts to her hands and her feet. Crying on the ground. Two of the neighbours kids were with her. Good sorts. Intelligent. Of course I do the obvious. I try to help.

            Its obvious that this relationship is toxic. I discharge my duties and move on. She is not ready to see the obvious.

            I could say, you are streets ahead, and you are. The point is, with time, you wont feel like this ever again. Weaponisation.

            But weaponisation, much like enlightenment, isnt a goal. It is continuous. Always.

            You have to go through it. It’s not fair, it’s not right and its certainly not just.

            We all wobble. I’ve been wobbling like a weeble for weeks.

            It will get better.

            Distractions, yes. Comedy. Try comedy tonight.

            Thinking of you x

          5. truthseeker6157 says:


            You are bound to feel like that. Wild animal trapped in a cage. If you have the addiction package, try listening to that a couple of times. I say a couple of times because when my ET shoots up I can’t concentrate very well. This package is probably my favourite. It’s the certainty in the way HG delivers the material. It calmed me down enough to stay in control and not respond to the narc.

            You are doing the right thing going No Contact. You know this. A few more days and you’ll start to feel a bit better. ET drops at different rates for different people so don’t be hard on yourself. Try not to expect too much of yourself just now. It’s draining and tiring at the start. Celebrate each and every day of your no contact as a battle won. Many battles win a war.

            You can do this. You will feel better when you do this. Day by day by day. Well done on achieving day three Kiki! 😎

  17. Violetta says:

    In more news of the modern Bawd, DM headline:

    Ghislaine Maxwell tried to flee when FBI raided her $1M New Hampshire hideaway and had a phone wrapped in tin foil ‘in misguided effort to avoid detection’

    Maybe she should have worn the tinfoil on her head.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Why, she is not nuts, she is a narcissist.

    2. Ren says:


      Ha ha! The Moden Bawrd!

      A ‘wag’ in the DM commevtscregetted to her as ‘Ghoulaine’!


  18. Empath007 says:

    I read an article yesterday about a young women who tried to direct her partner in bed after about a year of faking it. His reaction was highly indicative of a narc (broke a glass, accused her of cheating for wanting something different etc).

    It got me thinking though, from years of conversations with my girlfriends…. that women are conditioned to think about the mans pleasure and the mans pleasure only. Even female narcs focus on this as it is a major source of control for them. All of my girlfriends… have always faked it at one point or another.

    This is a really unhealthy behaviour and this has got to stop. Don’t fake it ladies ! A) you cause confusion for your partner because they believe they are pleasing you. B) this whole notion that a mans pleasure is more important is so archaic. C) it’s passive aggressive, complaining behind their backs but unable to communicate this with them in some mannerD) it has the potential to say what kind of guy they are, like the reaction posted above.

    If women would stop faking it… we’d gain so much power back. Think about it.

    1. Ashley says:

      Yup!! All my narc ex boyfriends were terrible in bed so I would often be on top so I could “do it right” haha. They loved it physically, but afterwards they would think about it & make backhanded compliments or be suspicious of me, sulk, make comments such as “I’m not the first one you’ve done THAT with, am I?” Or “Who taught you how to do THAT?” I would explain that no one taught me, it just comes naturally to me, the same concept as no one taught me how to cook, I instinctively know how to do certain things. It was the truth & they wouldn’t accept it.

      1. E says:

        Hi Ashley,

        When you say “that” are you referring to the capability to make yourself orgasm ? Or using different sexual techniques to satisfy your partner ? Or both ?

        Either way, good for you for taking control and making the best of a less then desirable situation ! I was never able to accomplish that, I either feel chemistry or I don’t. And I don’t fake it haha. I let my feelings known. And what’s ridiculous is the guy I was with didn’t even care, as long as he was having sex I could lay there like a statue and it didn’t stop him…. (this wasn’t my narc that was a normal… the narc was a different sort of story).

        1. Ashley says:

          Both. Thank you! I felt a lot of chemistry for them, they just didn’t have skills in that department at ALL haha. They didn’t have knowledge of the female anatomy. I got on top by saying, “Let me show you my talent.” Or “Let me do what I’m good at.” I know just what you mean haha! In my early 20s my bf was so bad at oral sex that it made me feel so angry. All I wanted to do was tell him he reminds me of a kitten licking milk & repeatedly kick him in the face. When he hoovered me & called me, I went on a rant yelling at him, detailing how pathetic he is in the meanest way I could, but he didn’t get it. He became aroused at me telling him off & started masturbating. Of course back then I didn’t have knowledge of negative fuel so I just thought he was very odd haha

          1. Empath007 says:

            You felt chemistry for them ! Totally explains why you were more enthusiastic about putting in effort. Bravo !

            Hahahahaha! I went on a similar rant with my narc x in the end. I thought it was pretty cut throat to his man hood 😂 such a waste of great insults when all it is is negative fuel 😂

          2. Ashley says:

            Haha thanks!! That’s awesome!!! Right?! All that great material gone to waste! 🤣💖

    2. Leela says:

      Oh dear! Yesterday I read about women who stayed 20, 30, 40 years with their narc-husbands, unhappy, emotionally starved, broken. 15 or more years no sex! Or very bad sex! No love (of course)! 🙁 Dear ladies: JUST PACK YOUR THINGS AND GO!!! LEAVE!! If more women would have the courage to just pack their things and GO! Why the f. do you stay with such a husband??! Years, decades! 🙁 Gain your power back by just LEAVING!

      1. HG Tudor says:

        They stay because of lots of different reasons which boils down to two essential premises

        1. They do not know what they are dealing with, i.e. a narcissist ; and
        2. The presence of emotional thinking which prevents them from deciding to leave and implement no contact.

        1. Leela says:

          Thank you, for the explanation, H.G.

      2. Empath007 says:

        There are always contrasts in behaviour. Abuse doesn’t reveal itself all at once.

        For example, I was unsatisfied sexually with a normal I was with long term. I continued with it because A) I had nothing to compare it too, I was a teen when we began dating. I thought everyone’s sexual experiences weren’t great and I didn’t know how to fix it (although I communicated this and tried)

        We broke up in my early 30s, first person to catch me on the rebound ? The narc. In contrast he was loving and attentive in the bedroom. Would cuddle with me afterward (even during devaluation periods). When I would suggest what I needed he would do it. He complimented me (something my previous partner did not). He took his time, flirted with me, we had foreplay. BUT I was being abused outside the bedroom… but was equating this completely different sex life to love…

        And thus is the power of abuse. The good contrasts the bad. Makes it hard to see. Cognitive Dissonance is brutal to deal with.

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          “Cognitive Dissonance is brutal to deal with.”

          It’s a bitch. Which is probably why it takes us so long to become aware ourselves, never mind admit to what is happening, never mind to actually tell somebody else or try to convince them. Mind games are very insidious and the contrasting elements of those, as you so rightly point out Empath007, make them addictive. So glad you made that point.

    3. Claire says:

      Sis, trust me, during the Golden/ Silver / Bronze period , Mid Rangers try hard to please. Their own satisfaction seems not important.
      And read SATN, HG perfectly describes how and why some Narcs are pleasers. However, the pleasure is purely on physical level, no such a thing like deep intimacy.
      Even when they cuddled post coital ( Narc 2 was a champion ) I got the feeling that something was missing.
      Although my body was relaxed , the happy hormones released. But on spiritual level I couldn’t feel the deep connection.

      1. Empath007 says:

        That is Interesting ! Even though mine was actually quite awkward in bed in many ways… I did not pick up on the fact the deep intimacy was one sided. That’s the only place I ignored all the flags. For me… it would have to be inexperience, I’ve only had 2 partners, and both clearly did not suite me in bed. I had also never watched porn while with them both…. I began to watch it after, and it was then that I noticed my narc had seen his moves somewhere before lol.

    4. Ren says:


      Only faked it once. Years ago. Desperately annoyed as now I can never get my 100% not faking it back.

    5. Eternity says:

      Empath, 007 so true . We women need to speak up for ourselves. Men can be so selfish in bed we have needs too and they are hardly ever met. This is my experience . I have been with my partner for so long ,that I dont know what pleasure feels like anymore from a man . It is so embarrassing talking about this but I dont know you ,and you dont know me so we are all good . Sorry I just had to get this off my chest as it bothers me.

      1. Ren says:


        Sorry to hear that. It’s so sad.

        Have to ask, is he a narc?

        1. Eternity says:

          Yes he is.

      2. Empath007 says:


        Please don’t apologize !

        If I DID know you… and you and I sat down and had a coffee face to face, my magnet empath would bring it all out in you 😂 people often tell me they are shocked at what they tell me! Haha.

        On top of that I don’t get squeamish when talking about sex. So I think if you feel safe in this anonymous environment, you should be able to discuss it.

        It’s important ! And this is part of the issue for women is we feel like we should act like delicate flowers and not discuss it… while some things are private and there’s nothing wrong with being respectful towards our partners… we DO need to be able to discuss it. I too had a long term partner where sex felt unsatisfying. I did discuss this with him privately, but if went no where. It left me so confused that I thought sex with a narc was loving and passionate in comparison ! Haha

        The only time sex talk makes me very emotional is when we are talking about rape, force, physical abuse…. that affects me deeply. As no woman or man should have to experience
        That 😞

        1. Eternity says:

          Thank you so much !

  19. blackcoffee30 says:

    I think someone posted something here (KTN) about eventually realizing the N wasn’t good in bed, rather it was chemically induced rose-colored glasses. Following my narc-free NSA frenzy and newly installing a FBW, my memory has been jogged. This 100% true.

    I mentioned this to one of my BFFs and she said, “Well, yeah. I remember in the beginning you were disappointed. You said he fucked like a jackhammer.” 😂

    1. Ren says:


      Oh the Jackhammer! Closely followed by ‘The Ferry’.

      Roll on, roll off!

  20. Leela says:

    I cannot talk about sex experience with a narc but I can talk about the usual friendship-hugs- and kisses on the cheek. Mechanic! Robotic! Empty! Boom! Like people were just dolls for him (Mid Ranger type A) – which they in fact are 😀 One can pretty much guess how such a narc could perform between the sheets: lousy! I think those who may be really great in bed are the Greater narcs who plan and know what they are doing. “My” narc uses to jump away in panic when a woman gets too close to him. It´s like a “Stay away from me, woman!” 😀 He talks about sex in a very negative way. It´s “dirty”, it´s “pig stuff”, “I can perfectly live without such a thing”…etc.

    Even though he´s an Elite narc, I think he may be definitely more Cerebral than Somatic.

  21. Yvelyn says:

    ugh. No wonder why I was so bored with my last narcissist. It’s not control I want so much as unlocking intense amount of pleasure in someone else’s body and he had way too many control issues and would not let me peg him or tie him up or flog him until he cried and it was just boring. The inability to surrender and receive pleasure and lose control is just not satisfying as a lover.

    1. Another Cat says:

      “and would not let me peg him or tie him up or flog him until he cried and it was just boring.”

      Wait just one minute,

      you like to make someone cry?
      Forgive me but that sounds creepy to me.

      1. Darth Renardus says:

        Another cat

        Well done on picking that up. I got a bit distracted at ‘pegging’.

        1. Another Cat says:

          Yes and written this way one might wonder if it really was the boyfriend who was the one with control issues.
          (but I can’t assume, maybe Yvelyn will write a follow up and explain)

          1. Darth Renardus says:


            It is a specific fetish, dacryphilia. Arousal in making someone cry. Sounds a bit too close to what we’ve read in fuel.

            But yes, It would be good if Yvelyn could come back and talked further.

          2. Darth Renardus says:

            I’ve bloody done it again!

            Sorry Another Cat. I’m not quite myself today. Sorry TS, I havnt got it in for you, honest!

          3. truthseeker6157 says:

            I don’t mind the miss messaging. It’s the heavy breathing that takes me by surprise Darth.

    2. truthseeker6157 says:

      “ would not let me peg him”
      I have a feeling that I might regret asking this. But. What does that mean?

      1. truthseeker6157 says:

        It’s ok. I googled it.
        Found a very interesting article in Cosmo.
        So I subscribed for educational purposes.
        I’m too damned sophisticated to be this innocent!

    3. Renarde says:


      Pegging you say…

  22. Leela says:

    Just reading “Sex and the Narcissist” one more time. My goodness! Oh boy! Wow! I didn´t really understand when I read it the first time, was more like a big “WTF???” but now it´s a HUGE “Oh WOW, oh my goodness, WTF??!!” 😀 😀 😀

    Again exactly the words of “my” narc: He´s special and so prefers “special” stuff. Glad that I´m only NISS and really 100 % vanilla! 😀 😀 DO NOT wanna know more details! No way! 😀 😀 😀

    1. Renarde says:


      We ALL read SATN ‘just one more time’

      I do hope Alexis bought the kindle version because I’m pretty sure if it was print, she’d have trashed it by now!

      Cant stop giggling!

  23. Bubbles 🍾 says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,
    I bet you eventually were able to “talk” to Dr O about sex …. correct ?
    You naughty boy 😂
    Luv Bubbles xx 😘

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It was her fault, she wanted me to.

      1. truthseeker6157 says:

        Manipulative blame shift. Double points.

      2. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Dear Mr Tudor,
        Spoken like a true greater, I’m sure it was worth your while 😉
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

  24. karmicoverload says:

    Oh, the sex…Since our relationship began with the idea it would “just” be about sex, I thought he would be better at it. But he wasn’t. He did, however, use it as a method of control. We would arrange a day, then he would be “Too tired/stressed/ill/busy” to make the day. Or some days I did get to meet up with him, and he would say he was too drunk/tired/stressed to perform at all. This would be after barrages of deeply sexual messaging, often describing things he was going to do to me which never materialised in the entire two year relationship. He liked to push boundaries and hear my fantasies. I ended up with just one….to spend the whole night with him. His response? To triangulate me with a burlesque performer. “A friend and nothing more.” She got to stay the night. His final response after I ended the relationship? A rare truth bomb. “Sex is not the controller. You don’t control me with your vagina. I care nothing for sex.”

    1. Leela says:

      Sounds like a (more) Cerebral narc. ALL narcs actually don´t really care about sex. For them it´s only a tool. It´s ALL about manipulation and control.

      1. HG Tudor says:


        1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

          Dear Mr Tudor,
          Was your nom de plume inspired from the The Tudor Room at the City of Manchester Stadium ?
          Asking for a friend 🤣
          Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          1. HG Tudor says:


        2. Bubbles 🍾 says:

          Dear Mr Tudor,
          Thank you
          Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        3. duchessbea says:

          But I bet you are great in bed HG. Very thorough and experimental.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            You are correct.

          2. duchessbea says:

            By the day I’m getting more intrigued and fascinated by you HG.

          3. HG Tudor says:


      2. karmicoverload says:

        Yes, when read H.G’s description of cerebral narc it was the one that seemed to fit the most, although he has many “victim” traits too. He has more or less spelled out the cerebral to me, e.g. “Language gets me hard.”
        He loves people to know how cultured and well-read he is.

        1. Renarde says:


          But they largely aren’t. They pick up bits and pieces. Soundbites if you will.

          Probe them deeply and they are undone.

          Intelligence is relative.

          1. karmicoverload says:

            Oh definitely, Renarde. His devaluation of me was entirely down to the fact that I saw through the facade.

          2. Renarde says:


            Devaluations are a bitch. Sorry to hear that.

    2. truthseeker6157 says:

      Wow Karmic, the fact that he actually said that is amazing. That’s a stunning statement.

      It’s such a contradiction in terms isn’t it? Men are wired for sex, the sexual act, less so emotional content. So to hear a guy make a statement like that just sounds so odd. Doesn’t really compute.

      To prefer control to sex to the extent that a guy withholds from having sex I just struggle to wrap my head around. I don’t struggle with the idea of them seeking and finding control during sex. I get that part. It’s preferring not to have sex when the opportunity presents itself that I don’t get.

      I can only imagine how you must have felt and how you must have analysed the reasons for him not wanting to spend time with you. Such a kick in the teeth.

      I hope your vagina goes on to rule the world Karmic! I would vote for your vagina.

      1. karmicoverload says:

        Both my mind and vagina thank you T.S 😁 He often dropped truth bombs on me for various things. As and when H.G jobs my memory with his writings, I will add them. It seems cathartic in some small way.
        Yes, the withholding of sex was a mind fuck. As he lives right next door to me, I was able to hear him watching porn after he had dismissed me by saying he wasn’t able to perform. Double mind fuck!

        1. Violetta says:

          I couldn’t understand why Wanna-Be Playuh Narc would keep staring at me and later phone-stalk me when he could have banged me into the next time zone. I even mused that he might be rubbing one out on the other end of the phone, but couldn’t understand why he would do that. If I wasn’t bimbetic enough to boink, wouldn’t he just turn his attention to somebody else? Was my rear too big? Were my Tracts of Land not vast enough? Was I too much of a brainiac? Too ditsy, outside of books?

          I vaguely understood that a normal asshole would have dated me, done me, and dumped me when he got bored, but hadn’t yet grasped the concept that WBPN was far from being a normal asshole.

          1. truthseeker6157 says:

            Sometimes I just ache laughing. I just love the way you put that. It’s exactly right. I really couldn’t understand what the issue was. If you don’t want me, that’s fine I’m a grown up, just go ahead and say it. But don’t future fake and sidestep and bullshit me. I thought the same, is my arse not big enough? You want bigger boobs? What? What’s the issue here? Spit it out and let’s just get it sorted!
            We always think it’s us. That’s the sad part. Has to be us doesn’t it? Can’t be them. The two ends of the spectrum are built for each other in so many ways. It’s such a shame that it can’t be made to work.

          2. Renarde says:


            Rubbing one out! Oh they DO! And I can almost always tell. Its so disrespectful if it’s not mutual. I’d immediately Dom them and yell at them to take their hand off their fucking cock.

            I’ve said it before and I know Hg has in SATN but Cs are CRAP! So it’s nothing to do with how you look, your body, your mind or how good you are, it’s because they are no good. That’s it.

            The two Cs I had were like peas in a pod. Lousy. No understanding of how female sexuality works. Despite their bragging. Both wouldnt go down on me but Yup, you guessed it, I was expected to.

            They are cold, selfish and uncaring. All narcs are but these two didnt even bother to hide it.

            The younger one said once, can I just come and knock on your door for a shag every now and again?

            WHAT??? No you fucking can’t, you quarter-wit! An unpaid prostitute?? On tap? Cheek of it!

            I’ve often wondered about Cs though. How did that cadre come about? Was it because they were crap at sex so then became a C or were the a C first which made them crap at sex?

        2. truthseeker6157 says:

          Oh gawd Karmic,

          That falls into the left right and sideways category of mind fuck!

          It really is cathartic to recount experiences on here. I struggle with some articles, some cut a bit close to the bone. I dipped way down after one in particular, one line in particular really, but the other readers hauled me up out of it.
          I’m trying to be objective rather than fall into the trap of getting emotional about it. Some articles I’m just not going to comment to safeguard against that. On the whole, talking things through with other readers on here though is definitely helping. I’m feeling far more like my old self over the last week or so. So I would say, comment and get everything out when you can. So many here know how it feels. I arrived thinking I was weird, that people might not understand what I was driving at. They do. That’s comforting.

          1. Renarde says:


            Yes, we do understand. Glad it’s helping.

          2. heloiseandabelarde says:

            Yes Renarde and all, I seem to be back after the 3 months of love bombing with a NEWly discovered likely narcissist has waned and wilted into pathetic quasi-devlauation. It is really good to be back among these sharp and funny minds. I think I may have drawn a lesser this time (how low can you go). Probably not a C. But my question is, does he not let me touch his junk or give him oral because those things would deplete his control of the situation? It is so odd, and unlike the previous lower mid range elite.

      2. Leela says:

        “It’s preferring not to have sex when the opportunity presents itself that I don’t get.”

        Didn´t get it first either. I had to re-read “Sex and the Narcissist” to FULLY understand it. Those people do not feel the way like: “Wow sexy woman/man, I wanna ….. her/him”. They are in fact not really into sex. NO narc is into sex, unless it is necessary for manipulation and control. They prefer Do-it-yourself over sex. 😉 This is because they cannot stand intimacy (for very long).

        They cannot stand to be so close to a person – neither physically nor mentally. It´s all about FUEL! Nothing else. So when a narc has sex it´s completely cold and emotionless from his or her side. Even though it looks like the hottest and most passionate sex ever – it in fact isn´t! They just fake those emotions in order do ensnare you. It´s ice-cold and mechanic for them. Sex is nothing but a tool for narc-people.

        1. truthseeker6157 says:

          I have read Sex and the Narcissist too Leela. Probably the most eye opening of the books I have read, though Horns and Halos raises a number of interesting questions too.
          I understand the fact that Sex is all about control and thus fuel for the narcissist. I just can’t wrap my head around it is all. I understand the words I just can’t relate to those words. Particularly when those words are coming from a guy. I’m just thinking about my guy friends and what they would have to say on the subject. Night and day ha ha.

          1. Leela says:

            I felt the same way, TS! I read the book the first time, I was shocked but just couldn´t image how the f…. somebody cannot like sex? 😉 How the heck somebody could prefer Do-it-yourself instead? But with more knowledge and more reading about narcs I understand now. I understand the really peculiar behavior of my “friend” when it comes to women and sex and why he just doesn´t want! Those people just DO NOT WANT sex! Period.

            They actually never want it, but they do it in order to secure their fuel and to manipulate and control the victim. H.G. writes in the book that intimacy is actually HORROR for them. They are only able to deal with it when they see a benefit – FUEL! And securing this fuel. Otherwise they cannot deal with the intimacy which goes with the sexual act. They do not want this!

    3. Fiddleress says:

      What you said here and in your other comments below sound like it was “my” ex narc that you knew! I’m sorry for you (and for myself), but somehow it makes me feel a bit better to know others experienced the same.

      Violetta and TS, I totally agree with your comments below. Abso-f*cking-lutely impossible to understand for me, it was, with that Mid-Ranger..
      AND he supported Liverpool. Wasn’t even from Liverpool. Not even from Britain, for that matter.

      1. truthseeker6157 says:

        Hahaha Fiddleress you sound so British! It’s true, you could probably forgive the fact he was a narc, but you definitely can never forgive the fact he is a Liverpool supporter! No way, no how.

        It amazes me how there are so many women on here that I would absolutely love to hang out with. I can’t believe that we are all on this one blog. It’s crazy when you think about it. The chances of so many like minded women converging in one place. I’m sure we are different in many many ways, but the things that count, the sheer understanding and shared humour is something else. This might not quite be the legacy that HG was aiming for, but it’s certainly a worthwhile one, or at least a very fortunate side effect.

        1. Fiddleress says:


          You can’t imagine how happy your comment has made me, telling me that I sound so British.The feeling was beyond any narcy Golden Period, haha. Because I know that you, at least, meant what you said.

          All the other things you wrote made me very happy too, it is precisely as you say! I feel exactly, exactly the same about so many of the women on here. And yes, it is amazing that we have found each other, so to speak. I should think HG finds it great too, because after all, it is all his doing. And something tells me he may well have foreseen this would happen.

          I had an annoying ET day today, and it was such a relief to be here tonight. So much so that I haven’t seen how time flies, and now I must go and get my beauty sleep, haha.

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            I’m sorry you had one of those days today, Fiddleress. They suck!

            And so glad you were able to come here and find the support you needed.

            It’s a day by day thing sometimes, and not every day is a good one.

            HG has certainly created a wonderful opportunity for us to share.

            I am grateful for him again today.

          2. Fiddleress says:

            Thank you, lickemtomorrow. Feeling better today, thanks to this blog, and thanks to an audio consultation with HG yesterday. This consultation was timely.

            In fact, I made a mistake this week. I’ll share it here; it may serve as an example of what not to do.
            I realised only today that it started on Tuesday evening after an unpleasant interaction at work with a colleague. I asked him what I thought was an innocuous question: if he had anything planned for the holiday, and he answered in a seemingly annoyed manner: “only going here and there.” Then I heard him tell an other colleague about his plans. And because I tend to lock away my feelings instead of listening to them, as I always think ‘I can take this’ – pride – I didn’t fully realise then that it reminded me of Narcex, whom I wasn’t allowed to question on anything.
            Later on that night, I started thinking of the past with a familial narc.
            And on Wednesday, what happened was Cross Pollution, as HG explained: I decided that since I hadn’t seen or heard of Narcex for 5 months, I could go back to the bookshop where I’d met him. And the worst part is that deep inside I knew that I shouldn’t go – again: not listening, pride – ‘I can take this’. The bookseller is a friend now, so I checked with him first that N wasn’t there for me to bump into. Still, I felt nervous walking to the bookshop, and once there, I was worried the N would walk through the door. Also, the bookseller had time to tell me (before I stopped him) that the N had come in last week, complaining again about not having enough money to live on, and I felt sorry for the N again.
            I think that going to that bookshop when my six-month period to lower my ET is far from over was a breach of no contact, therefore a mistake. As much as I love that bookshop, I need to steer clear of it for another few months.
            I loved how HG explained that it was my ET screaming out to be fed because it knows I am doing everything I can to starve it.
            But my ET has piped down today, so it’s onwards and upwards, and I’m off to find peace!

            On another thread, I saw that you have deleted your N’s messages: well done! I have just got rid of the last thing that reminded me of “mine” (an item I had overlooked): a dish that I’d bought as we were shopping together.
            We are the kind of people who cannot hold on to memorabilia without it firing back at us sooner or later. So, good on you that you decided to do what you did!

          3. truthseeker6157 says:

            Hahaha. They can keep their golden period. Welcome to Platinum! 😎
            Hopefully your ET is better today x

          4. Fiddleress says:

            Haha, I’ll go for Platinum any day!

          5. truthseeker6157 says:


            I’m really glad that you shared this with us. I have been feeling better of late and your experience highlights that even when we do feel so much better and that “I can take this” as you said, we are still at risk from ET. Just that little snippet of information from the bookseller and Narcex is right back in your mind.

            I’m also really glad that you didn’t mess around, knew there was an issue and took the audio consultation. That was your logic back in control and your fight to be well kicking in.

            I think you did really well Fiddleress, you misstepped but quickly corrected. It’s a very important post for those of us newer to the blog. Maybe go back into your archive of material and review to counter the spike in ET? It has to be up just now. I like the audio material if I’m struggling. It’s the certainty that comes across from it, when I’m not feeling certain. It can make a difference.

            Please keep talking and posting for the next few days so we know you’re ok still x

          6. Fiddleress says:

            Thank you very much for your kind message, truthseeker. I am feeling much better. In fact, this audio consultation with HG was already planned, but otherwise I would indeed have turned to him for such a consultation, as I did about a month ago when I was in a bad state for about a week.
            I have been narcfree in my everyday life only for a short while, which means that my ET had in fact been very high all my life, until recently. Lowering that ET is an ongoing process, and audio consultations are invaluable.

            And, great minds think alike, hehe: I did think it was time to go back to the audio material that I have, because indeed, the voice and tone give certainty, you are so right.

            But first: the weather is wonderful today, so I am going to go for a hike in the countryside around where I live!

            How long ago did you find narcsite, truthseeker?

          7. Fiddleress,

            Sounds like Bertha my guardian angel might have stopped by to sit on your shoulder on her flight back from Blackpool. If you find a half eaten sugar dummy on top of the wardrobe. That’s hers.

            I arrived on the site at the end of April this year I think. Around that time.

          8. Fiddleress says:

            Many thanks to Bertha, then!

            End of April is very recent. So I would say you are doing very well indeed. (I arrived here in mid-February this year.)
            It’s great that you are around!

          9. heloiseandabelarde says:

            Yes isn’t it so good to get back here Fiddleress: Fully conscious, aware folks. Why didn’t one narc give me oral? I asked him and he said because he wasn’t good at it and only wanted to do things he was good at. Control. I was glad when the next narc did go down on me, until it became so, well, predictable…first he does this, then he does this, maybe tonight move 3 will be left handed rather than right, then the toes-in-mouth part, then he sneaks it in too far after promising he won’t…same routine…mechanical in spite of his soulful eye contact, his ongoing moaning, etc. I like it when the forums are about sex. I’m going to buy the book now.
            Oh one more thing: narc 1 said that having an orgasm was painful for him, in some kind of cosmic dying way–lack of control.

        2. karmicoverload says:

          It would be good if we could have some sort of chat forum. But then I often wonder whether talking about my Narc so much is healthy. It feels good to talk about it with people who understand, no doubt about that, but are we just dragging it out?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            It depends on what you are discussing. If you want to understand what you are dealing with, what you must do and how to go about it, good. If you just want to go over and over what has happened without doing anything about it, that is both redundant and counter-productive. The material I provide you gives you cold, hard logic. You can access more material in The Knowledge Vault and you can access my expertise in a bespoke fashion through the consultations. This is a safe environment for you to learn, but it is not a place to wallow. You need to focus on you and your defences, not the narcissist.

          2. Violetta says:

            Wailed about Wanna-Be Playuh-Narc for years, and it wasn’t helpful. I was the LoveFool girl who “desperately pondered, Spent my nights awake and I wonder, What I could have done in another way, To make you stay.”

            Once I started viewing him in terms of Sex and the Narcissist, I stopped pondering and decided he was rather silly.

          3. blackcoffee30 says:

            100% THIS >> “This is a safe environment for you to learn, but it is not a place to wallow. You need to focus on you and your defences, not the narcissist.”

            I most highly recommend an audio consult. It will help you hone your focus and understanding.

          4. Ann says:

            It helps…but I have yet to find someone who experiencesd what I did…

          5. NarcAngel says:

            ” It helps…but I have yet to find someone who experiencesd what I did…”

            Try us. It’s unlikely that someone here hasn’t come come across your scenario and can validate your experience, but a consultation with HG is the ultimate in gaining understanding as to why and in answering your questions.

          6. HG Tudor says:


      2. Violetta says:

        Now wait a minute, I support Leeds, and never visited the UK til ’02. (They have a terrible reputation, BTW: half of them were had up for violent assailing, or whatever A&B is over there. Not on the pitch: in a pub after a game. Not surprised, because my grandpa and great uncles grew up there, and they never got along with anybody, including their own families.)

        One of my grad school classmates supported Man U. Subscribed to Beeb America just so she could watch. She had English ancestry, but I don’t think they were from Manchester.

        1. Renarde says:

          Honey, they very rare are from Manc.

        2. Fiddleress says:

          Violetta, I’ll latch on to anything to ‘prove’ (especially to myself) that exN is a twat. I need to, right now.
          Is the bad reputation part of the reason why you support Leeds? Just kidding.
          At least you had family that grew up in Britain. He didn’t. He said he hated the English, for what they had done to the Irish (he was half American, and his American mother was of Irish descent. But he didn’t even know that there were many people of Irish descent in Liverpool, so he doesn’t even have that excuse). But then he hated everybody. Apart from child-molesting writers, and any writer that had received the Nobel prize for Literature, which he magically hopes to receive himself, one day. You’d think he would need to write something first.
          Sorry, rehashing. I must stop this. Had a bad day of it today.
          Plus I understand nothing at football.

          1. Renarde says:


            Wait, what? He didnt understand that Liverpool has a HUGE Irish population? You cant move in that city without seeing the Irish!

            The Irish pub crawl on St Patrick’s day is epic! In fact, there is barely a family in Lancashire that arent related in some way to Eire.

            For the benefit of US readers. Liverpool was at one point the biggest port in the world. We were importing cotton from the Southern States in the US.

            Liverpool is in Lancashire, in the NW. What is a tad confusing is that Liverpool is now Metropolitan so it isnt governed by the administrative seat of Lancashire, Preston. Manchester is the same.

            What overseas people and quite a lot of people in the South of England fail to grasp is that football in the NW is highly sectarian.

            So catholics support LUFC and MUFC and protestants Everton and Man City.

            Liverpool and Manchester loathe each other and Bolton sits right in the middle.

            Here’s an intrestimg factoid. Lancashire is a Palatine county. That means that the Duke of Lancaster is always the monarch. Hence in November, those of us old enough remember raise ‘The Loyal Toast’.

            Christ I’m getting old.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            The religious delineation with regard to those teams is no longer, it was many years ago, but football is the religion itself now, nothing to do with an imaginary friend.

          3. Darth Renardus says:


            Oh. Then you might want to tell it to my home town which still has a ‘Catholic Zone’.

            I’ve never understood it. But it is what it is…

          4. HG Tudor says:

            And how many of the Catholic Zone regularly attend a football match and what percentage are they of the fans that support that particular team? There will be more fans who support that team for reasons unassociated with religion than those that do. I attend football matches. I read a lot about football. I know a lot of football fans. Religion is never mentioned.

          5. Darth Renardus says:


            Well, I’d agree with you on that point. Football and Rugby League became so huge in the NW.

            People in far flung corners of the planet supporting Man U or LUFC? It made no sense. So your point is that largely sectarian fans dont exist? Maybe so, maybe not. But it was within living memory that orange parades happened in my own town.

            I wonder if we could apply that same argument to Rangers and Celtic?

            Personally, I do hope sectarianism dies. It was a horror then and a horror now.

            Liverpool remained far more tribalistic until very well into the late 90s if not the ’00s when it was suddenly resurrected. I avoided certain parts of the city such as Aintree, that Everton area and of course Toxteth. I couldnt even knock it in the poor deluded southern fools’ heads it was unsafe. So unaware, where they.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            You referred to Liverpool, Everton, Manchester City and Manchester United – not the two Glasgow sides, in your original observation.

            The fans of the first four teams support them for reasons unrelated to religion.

            Fans may well be tribalistic, but it is not on the basis of religion.

            Read the comments at this link re Liverpool and Everton and you will see you are wrong

          7. Darth Renardus says:


            I’ve read the piece. And whom is this Kennedy? Writing for Leeds U? Sounds like a twat to me.

            I have the read the comments. Interesting. But here’s one that caught my eye

            Don Alexander
            14 Posted 18/02/2018 at 00:59:02

            My mother is 94, still 100% savvy, born and raised “on the docks”, was nearly adult in the blitz of WW2, and she assures me the religious divide in her young life had a lot of sway in which team you supported.

            I note all the commentators are male.

            It absolutly was this way. My own grandmother, Catholic, told me that. If it was so in my home town that it must also have been so for the other cities. Indeed, in Liverpool before its rejuvenation, we all know which side we were in at any particular time.

            It was very well known growing up that there were sides. However, I went to a CoE primary. It was astounding how many boys followed LUFC. They should gave been supporting Everton. Youd get the odd one of course whod be desperately inscribing it on his pencil case. Minority. Those were the glory supporters.

            Even worse when I went to Uni. Frankly I was disgusted. One even came from Yorkshire! I nearly fainted in shock. Another from Bristol.

            I do take your point that there has been a shift away from sectarianism. No question. But the old tribal lines remain and will do so until that generation has gone.

            You must know how insular both cities are? They live in their own little ways, never moving out, for generations.

            Yes, the decades have brought fresh blood in, no question. But the old timers are still there. Still telling their tales.

            Interesting discussion, btw.

          8. Darth Renardus says:


            I was talking to a fellow home town member today and he reminded me of a very old joke that I’d forgotten.

            Supporter rings up the club.

            ‘What time is kick-off?’

            ‘When time can you get here?’

            It took me ten minutes to recover from that corker! I was wracking my brains last night before it popped into my head, ‘Conference League’.

            Funnily enough, neither of us could remember their ‘home ground’.

            ‘I seem to remember it’s a lot of grass with a wooden club house?’

            ‘Ren; that’s a park’ Exploded again!

            Oh good on them if they have 1k. I’m sure the world is drawing it’s collective breath in eager anticipation.

            I may not have delineated my sectarian point accurately enough. So apologies. I firmly believe in the beginning it was. It might not be so now. Good, I say.

            I do HATE it when religion comes between us.

          9. Darth Renardus says:


            My own home town as being non-league for years. Decades.

            They are doing their best if they can conjure up a dozen.

            Still that makes the RC/Cof E headcount easier…

          10. HG Tudor says:

            Nobody who supports your home town team does so because of religion. They average over 1000 fans per game as opposed to a dozen by the way.

          11. Darth Renardus says:


            Ha ha! Clearly they have moved on. A little.

            I hear their cricket club is top notch though!

            Maybe they will eventually scrape into the Division. Hope springs eternal!

            1000 eh? I wonder how The Mitre keeps them out! Must be overcrowded in there?

            Well not now obviously with CV19 et al.

          12. Violetta says:


            “Is the bad reputation part of the reason why you support Leeds? Just kidding.”

            Actually, it is. Reminds of my family.

            “he didn’t even know that there were many people of Irish descent in Liverpool”

            Including all four Beatles. Holy roly-poly, you found a sharp one, didn’t you?

            “I understand nothing at football”

            The basic fight for territory on the pitch has traditionally just been excuse for brawling among the spectators. Read Bill Buford’s Among the Thugs, although that level of hooliganism seems to have mostly died down.

          13. Fiddleress says:

            Football as the continuation of war by other means? I’ll look into this book, thanks.

            “Holy roly-poly, you found a sharp one, didn’t you?” This had me in stitches!

        3. lickemtomorrow says:

          I became a Liverpool supporter during the 2005 Champions League final against A.C. Milan.

          What a game!!

          And Steve Gerrard became my pin up boy 😉

          If anyone cares to look up a YouTube video “Liverpool F.C. & 100,000 Australian fans sing “You’ll Never Walk Alone” you’ll see the infection has spread around the world …

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Ah, you are what we refer to as a glory supporter.

          2. Renarde says:


            Could be, could be…

          3. lickemtomorrow says:

            I am what is known as a ‘champion of the underdog’ 😛

            No way did it look like Liverpool was going to win that game!

            And they did 😉

          4. HG Tudor says:

            You’re a glory supporter, your response underlines it!

          5. Renarde says:


            It’s a cancer that’s spread around the world…

          6. Renarde says:


            Hang on. Gerrard? STEVE Gerrard?

            I’ve heard it all now. I’m off to retire and raise begonias…

          7. Violetta says:

            If that’s the song from Carousel, it’s an infection, all right.

      3. Renarde says:

        Lovely usage of invective.

        Liking your style fiddleress!

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          Ha, HG! I championed their win, and then I supported their glory 🙂

          And they’ve been victorious again!

          And retirement and raising Begonias sounds kind of appealing, Renarde 😉

          1. Darth Renardus says:


            I know? Lovely plants. Or maybe Rose’s?

            I see my new name has come through!! Very happy!!!

            I feel the recent LUFC win might be a sore point for City Boy. Tee hee.

      4. karmicoverload says:

        Yes, mine is a fully fledged Texan. Luckily for me, he was not a football supporter at all. Unless his next victim is into football. Then I am sure he will be too.

  25. blackcoffee30 says:

    Dr. E is a narc, correct? God? When did God come into play?

  26. Leela says:

    Orgasm denial is pure torture! I experienced that long time ago. Maybe some people may like it, I don´t. To me it´s nothing but torture. 🙁 This article is like the book “Sex and the Narcissist” – at the beginning …aaaaw, sounds nice, you keep on reading …”WTF??”…you keep on reading…”Oh my goodness!!! Friday night lecture!!! 😀 😀 😀 So sex is a tool for the narc to torture people. 🙁

    1. Witch says:

      They sure did torture me with their lack of skills lol
      (Don’t get excited narcs) but I actually enjoy orgasm denial. I dated this guy who had issues around sex due to low self esteem he couldn’t always maintain an erection or interest in sex partly also due to having ADHD. So sex was sometimes cut short but he had a nice penis, it was the perfect size, so my vagina was always smiling and ready to devour (maybe he was imtimated by this, I don’t know.)

      1. Leela says:

        “They sure did torture me with their lack of skills lol”

        Good one! 😀 😀 😀 I have never had a narc in bed, I read very different opinions, some like H.G. seem to be very good in bed but I also read from a lot of former IPPS the complete opposite that “their” narc was lousy between the sheets. It depends on the type of narc. My Ex who did this orgasm denial was not a narc. I just learnt that this is definitely not my cup of tea. 🙁

        I´m only a NISS and just know that he´s not really into sex with another human being. He´s an elite mid ranger type A, but I guess the Cerebral part seems to be more dominant or maybe he´s just lying, who knows?

        1. Witch says:

          I dated what I believe to be a MM type A. He did have an interest in sex but it was definitely about control as sex had to be on his terms. If he wanted it a certain way he would keep trying it until he got it so I guess he was kind of a rapist as well but in a non-violent, hard to go to the police and prove it kind of way.

          1. Leela says:

            Witch, “my” narc is also a middle mid range type A. I observed the same behavior in daily life. He wants it his way and pushes and pushes and pushes until he gets his way, until people do what HE WANTS! And he doesn´t give up, he doesn´t understand the word “no” 😀 He keeps on trying and trying and trying until he gets what he wants. 😀 What others think about it? What others have to say? The feelings of other people? OF COURSE he doesn´t care! Typical narcy! What else? 😉

            And if he doesn´t get his way: There comes the big SULK! 😀

      2. blackcoffee30 says:

        @Witch 🤣 you’re hilarious. As an aside, my NSA frenzy may have come to an end; think I’ve found a suitable FWB.

        1. Witch says:

          @ black coffee
          I hope it goes well.
          I had a couple of FWB before I found my gf. I had to cut one off early because she actually wanted to be with me and her jealousy started to show.
          The other one I’m still friends with.
          I’m a bit pathetic because I always have to have a love interest. I love my fantasies and I love my cuddles.

          1. blackcoffee30 says:

            Me too! Thank you. He’s much younger than me and cut for the Gods.

            Right now, I am keeping love interests well away!

            HG is going to end up being like my dad having to “approve” of all my possible long-term suitors with a narc detector! 🤣🤣🤣

    2. lickemtomorrow says:

      I agree this article is like the book, and “WTF??” goes nicely as a description of the same.

      Not sure I always want to see into the mind of the narcissist. At times it can be like staring into the abyss.

      1. Leela says:

        Or staring straight into hell. He just once said that he likes “special” stuff, I stopped talking about that with him because I decided then, that I better DO NOT wanna know. 😀 😀

  27. Violetta says:

    Whenever I start to worry that I’m a full narc instead of highly Narcissistic, I will remember this. My first make-out session was with a boy I’d been crushing on for an entire school year. I’d figured out self-induced orgasms two years earlier, and we didn’t go far enough for either of us to achieve one, but I learned (especially after later sessions with others) that I’d rather be with someone I felt that way about than go through the entire Kama Sutra with someone else. I didn’t have an orgasm that wasn’t self-induced until decades later, but I didn’t love the man in question, though I felt tremendous affection for him. I felt guilty that I did not love him, and felt like I shouldn’t prevent him from meeting someone else who could. (He may not have cared as much about that as I did.)

    1. truthseeker6157 says:

      Hi Violetta,

      I think we all worry that we are secretly narcissists at times. The fact that you let someone go who you didn’t love as you felt he would be better off with someone else, would confirm to me you aren’t a narcissist. A narcissist would see that as an advantage, keep the guy hanging and bleed him dry. Also your comments on the blog are far too well considered for you not to have placed yourself in others’ positions before responding. Again, non narcissistic. I could go on 😊

      Have you done the EDC then you know for sure and can put those concerns to bed?

      Being manipulative is my own main concern. There was a comment made to me by a CEO relatively early in my career. We were stood at the desk in an airport business lounge. We were about to take the same flight, he in business me in cattle. Headed to the same office but in different meetings. He was upgrading my ticket to business class so that we could sit together during the flight. Had spotted me buying perfume in one of the airport shops and had invited me to the lounge. As he handed his credit card over to pay for my upgrade he said, ‘ You are extremely manipulative. Probably one of the most manipulative people I have ever met.’ Which is pretty funny when you think about it, given he was paying for my upgrade as he said it. The comment was in reference to something that had happened a few months prior where our paths had crossed. It still shocked me to hear him say it though.

      This has stuck with me. He was correct, I am sometimes highly manipulative. I was more manipulative at the start of my career, far less so now but it is definitely there. I was concerned that if I was a Mid Ranger I might fool the EDC test. I answered honestly but a Mid Ranger would think they were answering honestly too wouldn’t they? The fact that HG knows this has to mean that the EDC is well shored up against that possibility. I have faith that HG is more manipulative though honestly, on a good day I fear I could give him a run for his money! Crap, there goes pride as well! I’m not doing very well here am I?

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Maybe the definition of manipulative is in play here. Some (the CEO in this case) might use that word when persuasion would be a better fit. Different intention to me. It’s like when people say here that they have been attacked when all someone did was disagree or offer an alternate point of view. Even the word narcissist gets thrown around and confuses things. Not everyone who we’ve had a bad experience is a narcissist. I have read a few cases here where I wonder if it isn’t more emotional thinking on the part of the empath that the other person is labeled a narcissist. We should be sure when applying that to someone as it is no small accusation and diminishes the use of the term being used properly and in having the mainstream become educated about it. That’s why the Narc Detector was created and is such an important tool.

        I have never read your comments and thought you to be a narcissist.

        1. truthseeker6157 says:

          NA, that’s a very fair point. He might have meant persuasive. If I’m perfectly honest I think I have been manipulative in a work context. I have knowingly influenced someone to get what I wanted. Not in an horrendous way, in that, I would never influence someone to do something that would impact them negatively just so I could benefit. So I don’t damage anyone else if that makes sense. More, I see an opportunity and manipulate my way to secure it. I know exactly what I’m doing when I’m doing it. Again maybe some would say influence, or persuade. I was working in a very male dominated industry and punching above my weight, so that might have impacted too.

          Looking more positively though, I don’t believe I manipulate in my personal relationships outside of work. In any way, shape or form. I want to know that those relationships are real and honest, so I don’t manipulate there.

          We aren’t supposed to be angels are we? The narcissistic traits will activate when they are needed I think. Without them we would be walked over. That serves no purpose for anyone.

          I agree with the idea of being careful to use the term narcissist out of context when we don’t actually know. We are learning, so much information and so many realisations put those thoughts to the front of our minds. There is one definitive way to know and you’re right it is the Narc Detector. I agree with Violetta, I’ll be running any future love interest by HG. I don’t fully trust my own judgement in that one respect. I think I can still judge it elsewhere though, and actually, I’m content with that.
          Can’t tell you how much better I feel since the wheels came off the other week. Maybe I needed to crash to pull up. Thank you again for cracking the silk whip. It was the right thing to say to me.

  28. lickemtomorrow says:

    I love the narcissistic projection in the response to Dr. E’s suggestion toward the end:

    “Listen doctor, don’t project your problems in that department onto me, okay?”

    Classic, and very quick witted!

    I’m afraid Dr. O. would be like a lamb led to the slaughter in a similar situation. Don’t envy her, trying to bat away your charm and keep her composure.

    But what interested me was this element of pain combined with pleasure. I also listened to ‘Spanked’. Does the narcissist believe that the person experiencing the pain is also experiencing pleasure? I know some people do, but I wonder how much of this is also narcissistic projection. My thoughts around that could get complicated.

    Does someone need to be in a period of devaluation for this to occur? Is it simply ‘horses for courses’? Part of me can understand the submissive notion, but I can think of other ways to give up control, or control people, that doesn’t include sex (or pain!). In fact, you’ve got an arsenal in your ‘toolkit’. Is sex the ultimate act of control?

    Lots more thoughts on sex, but saving them.

    1. truthseeker6157 says:

      Hey Lickemtomorrow 🙂

      I understand that sex is probably the ultimate in control. I can’t think of a better method to be honest.
      I get the pleasure pain thing but that is very much based on trust, It’s similar to hands being tied or wrists held. Can be sexy if you trust the person you are with. The complete opposite if you don’t. The problem is that the whole trust thing is nul and void with the narc anyway.

      I think the nettle idea is a massive manipulation. Like a wasp sting. The nettle itself brings the idea of more discomfort than the reality. So, it instils fear or panic even, then comes the kissing it all better part, which offers relief from the sting, or feels good comparatively.

      It’s another trick to confuse. So then fast forward and in the confusion of devaluation or pre devaluation, the victim thinks, ’Well the nettle thing actually wasn’t as awful as I thought. That shocked me too but it wasn’t so bad. Maybe I should just go along with it.’ Only next time, it does hurt. And the time after.

      No Remorse

      1. lickemtomorrow says:

        Hey TS, I appreciate your response and your explanation helps to make things a little clearer.

        Trust would be huge in that situation, and I think part of it (in answer to my own question as well) is that this is the moment when we are at our most vulnerable. Naked, exposed, in some respects helpless. This must give the narc a huge surge of power, and then introducing pain just increases the pleasure of that for them. It’s fuel. And it reminds me a little of how the negative fuel is prized over the positive fuel after the golden period. So the pain involved with this intimate act provides more fuel than the actual pleasure of such an intimate act. It’s kind of where my thoughts were going earlier, but I didn’t know how to express it. There’s more, but that’s all I’ll add for now.

        I can imagine the ‘high’ from first experiencing the pain, and then being given the relief … much like the respite from devaluation and entering the golden period again. Only it is all being played out in this one intimate act. That’s why I wondered if this process is part of devaluation. I don’t imagine this scenario being played out during the golden period. Unless the narc has chosen a masochist.

        I’m sure it could be very easy to be drawn into this scenario by a narcissist, like you’ve been drawn into the relationship in the first place. As you said – planning, manipulation and lack of remorse.

    2. autiempath says:

      I have experience with having sex in devaluation. It was forced and with pain involved.
      It was also used for punishment.
      Ofcourse a horrible experience.

      I have also experienced a simular situation, as told in spanked.
      I was at that moment just low hanging fruit.
      And the N. involved was lucky to have me and turned out to be a Sadist/Dom and had a fuel fest that night.
      As usual it was al about control.

      1. blackcoffee30 says:

        I’m sorry you experienced this. XO

        1. autiempath says:


          Thank you.
          Iam now happy to say that iam over it.
          But i will never forget.
          Now i understand more about myself and the Narcissist.

    3. Renarde says:


      Oh Hg is incredibly quick witted! Unbelievably so. In fact in our last consult, he said something, I popped one out and he came back even faster!

      Oh I laughed. Words to the effect, you clever fucking bastard. Thank you, he said. Ever so polite!

      Your post is intresting.

      Of course the INTELLIGENT narc understands that the sub is getting something out of it. They are not daft. It’s only your bloody Lee’s who are bone dead. The MRNs get it. Let alone the Gs.

      As hardcore as I am, I’m not a dyed in the wool masochist. The thought of nettles makes me cringe!

      It’s a very funny piece of writing. Very funny.

      When males get over 50, the little blue pill becomes God. And then they trill ‘Oh you’ve cured me! You’ve saved me!’

      So fucking funny. When you get a bloke stammering over why he needs viagra. When you see a man who has to DRAG himself out of your place and indeed MULTIPLE men. Goodness! Get. A. Fucking. Grip.

      1. lickemtomorrow says:

        Hi Renarde, HG definitely creates a few highlights for us here with his wonderful sense of humour, and this post is a little bit of a mix for me combining both pleasure and pain. His wonderful sense of humour in his conversation with Dr. E. is tempered by his darker side involving an intimate moment.

        It makes me think of the push-pull dynamic of the narcissistic relationship that can be so enthralling.

        Trying not to go there in my head right now …

        I know nothing about Viagra, except it’s obviously been a God send for some … as long as you get what you need out of it 😉

        1. Renarde says:


          Oh my goodness. Hg has had me in stitches before now in ACs. He is very, very funny indeed. He is waaay quicker than me and I’m no slouch!

          I’ve been kind of musing about your words and the writing. So I’m going to get on me soapbox.

          As a sex positive writer and educator, I’m going to say something which is contraindicative. There is way to much emphasis placed on sex. I’ve always said this. Sure, I love it (and I’m rather good at the sport if I do say so myself) but it’s not the everything.

          I think more women would benefit from the way I do things. At the beginning of any relationship I always ask, ‘Ever used prostitutes?’ Immediately following up with, ‘No right or wrong answers, I’m just curious’. Then they sing.

          Now I do not care one jot what any man has got up to. Be it cheating, bisexuality, porn, paying for sex. I just want to know because 1- They and perhaps for the first time, are able to have a frank conversation with a partner and therefore 2 – It creates intimacy. 3- I now know things which leads me to 4 – I have leverage. Which I’ve never had to use btw.

          Oh the stories they tell! One told me he had a scrapbook, just like Hgs. Could’ve knocked me down with a feather.

          As always and perhaps you know but in sex and kink there are two very important acronyms. SSC, Safe, Sane, Consensual and RACK. Risk Aware Consensual Kink. Above all Informed Consent (IC). Good way to test potential Dominants. Caught one out that way myself.

          It goes without saying that any ‘Master’ who refuses to use safe words has NPD which is hidden under the facade of Power Exchange (PE). Its edge play and is potentially lethal.

          And therein ends my sermon for today!

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            Thank you, Renarde. I really do appreciate you opening up to me in that way and I’m nowhere near as knowledgeable or educated on such things. Thank you for providing the full version of the acronyms. I took a long hiatus between relationships before I met my narc and we had only begun to speak about such things as erotica. That’s about as far as we got. Probably just as well. I can’t imagine the further hold he might have had on me otherwise.

          2. Darth Renardus says:


            Oh no worries! Am happy to supply information because it may help you or the others that ‘lurk’ on NS.

            Once upon a time, I was a lurker too. I do not see that as a pejorative choice of words. It is what it is.

            I think the thing is with PE exchange, for me personally, I was always looking for the trap.

            You were wise to pull back when you did. Always remember Rens #1. Never let them in until you are complete satisfied with their motives. Which leads on to #2. Most MRNs will show their hand, if and only if you apply the correct pressure.

            If you allow them full control from near enough the beginning, they will now have fresh impetus to keep up the pretence.

            If you keep it up the defiance, they will have no choice but to disengage. Then you have your answer. Some misguided fools will carry on, of course. But by then, you will seen them for what they are. Vagina hunters or people with NPD.

            You see for a lot of males, having a fully submissive and compliant female is their goal. And when their fuel becomes stale; they disengage.

            Subs see this as being abandoned. Which they absolutely have been. It’s more correct to say its disengagement.

            I have been recently urging Hg to write SATN 2. Primarily aimed at scene subs who need to understand the narc dynamic (Fuel, Sitting target etc), combined with specific topics that effect them more than the vanillas.

            The reason for this is that during a typical N-E vanilla pairing, matters more more slowly. In a PE relationship it moves very fast and very quickly. Precisely because of sex itself. Then kink gets involved and for the unaware sub, it becomes utterly overwhelming. And very intense.

            Which is why I turned to the Darkside. Years ago.

  29. truthseeker6157 says:

    I absolutely love this article. It really makes me chuckle. “Can’t I talk to Dr O about sex?” Such a contrast between childlike phrasing and adult subject matter. It’s almost cute.

    1. Another Cat says:

      I believe HG was right with that question.

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