When HG Met The Narcissists

H.G Tudor - When HG Met The Narcissists e-book cover

Gain knowledge, be entertained and help others!

Learn what happened when HG met a narcissist and dealt with him in this instructive encounter which will enable you to understand more of when narcissists collide but more importantly, when one comes up against The Ultra.

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180 thoughts on “When HG Met The Narcissists

  1. Asp Emp says:

    I enjoyed reading ‘When HG Met the Narcissists’ today. I may be wrong here, it seems to me that Joe lacks the facade of the Middle-Range and Greater. I’m guessing Joe is an Upper Lesser Type B.

  2. K says:

    I read Pipelines: The Narcissist’s Fuel Matrix and I am caught between ULN and LMRN.

    This sentence below screams midranger.

    “the pretentious manner by which he embraced her on both cheeks with an exaggerated “mwah” noise.”

    But his appalling behavior and the ad hominem attack indicate ULN. Can’t wait for Part Two!

    1. NarcAngel says:

      I didn’t go with ULN because they can have some measure of success and this guy seems to have nothing. No prospects, no drive to even attempt at facade in that regard. Just wants the job handed to him. I have considered your observation about the cheese so now I’ve elevated him to middle lesser but ready to get an F once again haha. Will be interesting to see the answer.

      1. K says:

        I am currently in “School Limbo”.

        1. K says:

          I have thought on this. He is a LMRN. Based on my experience with ULNs, they do not embrace people or make exaggerated “mwah” noises, ever.

          “the pretentious manner by which he embraced her on both cheeks with an exaggerated “mwah” noise.”

    2. Leigh says:

      I know I haven’t been here as long as you, K & NA, so I may be dead wrong here. I’m leaning towards Middle Lesser too. The middle lesser can have some mid range characteristics. He sulks and rolls out silent treatments just like a Mid Range. I hope we see the answer soon. I see there’s a new book and I’m excited to get it and read it.

      1. K says:

        You are not wrong at all; I completely agree with you; Joe is a huge sulk, when you have the chance, check out the comments between Eternity and HG on this link. The comments are close to the top.

        At first I thought LMRN, then ULN now I am back to LMRN.


        1. Leigh says:

          At first, I thought LMRN too especially since they can have Lesser characteristics. The reason I strayed away from that was for two reasons, the lack of facade and the fact that Joe doesn’t have an education. After reading Mr. Tudor’s comment that an LMRN’s facade can flicker on and off, now I’m confused again. I wish he would tell us the answer already!

          1. K says:

            Hahahahaha…that exchange threw me for a loop too! The answer may be coming out on the 28th.


          2. Leigh says:

            I know! I’m super excited! I can’t wait to read it! Although I just realized that’s a week a way. I thought It was coming out today.

          3. K says:

            Definitely something to look forward to!

  3. lickemtomorrow says:

    Joe was on the backfoot right from the start, and what’s interesting to me is that he didn’t mind embarrassing his partner, Chloe. I would take umbrage with Joe on that account. He did not come to the front door to greet his guests with her and it’s pretty much downhill from there. He was the one who embarrassed Chloe, not HG. Though his intention may well have been to send a message to HG. I can see the purpose in HGs design to show him up for what he is. There are two women involved who are unable to stand up to him the way HG is able to do because they are empaths and will not show him the door the way HG is able to do.

    The empath in me at the same time has a sneaking bit of pity for him. He was cornered, but he didn’t know it.

    I think, being a narcissist, he was going to make it Chloe’s fault and this is where my concern is raised for her.

    Typical narc behaviour not to attend to the baby (because it’s all about him) and probably preferable he didn’t do so in the circumstances. Best thing for Chloe and the baby is that they make it out of there before the situation can escalate any further.

    I’m going with a Lesser because he doesn’t seem to have much of a facade, none of the charm of the Greater and is missing the more sophisticated pity plays of the Mid Ranger.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Valid observation and well articulated. As to the school, wait and see!

      1. lickemtomorrow says:

        Thanks, HG 🙂

        I shall be waiting with baited breath!

    2. Violetta says:

      I noticed the little puke couldn’t or wouldn’t find out if she needed anything. Probably thinks it’s Woman’s Work, but just as well: saw an article about a guy who found his 4-week-old daughter’s crying so annoying, in the hour-and-a-half he was alone with her, that he threw her across the room, then pretended she was just asleep when her mother returned, so she didn’t get medical care in time to prevent even worse damage. She lived 13 years, with permanent brain injuries and complete dependence, before dying, and now he’s indignant because he’s been charged with murder, not manslaughter.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Not attending to the baby would also lure Chloe closer to him and away from HG and SM. Threats and possible physical assault of some sort would likely occur out of their view.

        I suck at Identifying the lower, mid, and upper in the categories (so tend to just stick with Lesser, Mid, and Greater), but my guess is between lower lesser and mid lesser, leaning more toward lower. The difference to me being likely the number of teeth.

        1. K says:

          I eliminated LLN because of my father/family (LLNs). If my father saw HG sink his fork into HIS cheese, then my father would have reached across the table to punch HG in the face. Essentially, there would have been a brawl at the dinner table.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            I think you mean he would have tried to punch me, K.

          2. FYC says:

            Haha, HG. Indeed.

          3. K says:

            Hahahahaha…yes, he would have tried and missed; I suspect that you have very fast instincts (ducking is challenge fuel).

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Yes, the fork or knife would have moved from cheese to hand. His hand.

          5. K says:

            Hahahahaha…he would have deserved it!

        2. Violetta says:


          I’m not very good at the finer points of categorization either, but I’m told in the UK a shaven head with scars from having a skull fracture treated in hospital is also a strong indicator.

        3. lickemtomorrow says:

          I agree his ignoring the baby was also his ‘cry’ for attention. Poor Chloe stuck in the middle between the two of them (the baby and Joe). A mother’s instinct will always be to go to the baby first, so she would feel quite torn I would imagine. But calming him might be more important than tending to the baby initially which is where a massive red flag is raised for me. Any time you have to put your partner over your child means there is a major issue brewing as a normal or empathic partner would either tend to the child themselves or assume you would need to do the same. Chloe needs to get her priorities right here. I guess HG doesn’t know what happened next in that scenario, but my guess is Chloe would have needed to check in with Joe first before attending to the baby.

          I’m not up on the various categories either, so just went with lesser. The number of teeth could definitely be a good indicator!

      2. lickemtomorrow says:

        Another horrific story, V, and there are too many of the same stories out there 🙁

        Being indignant about the charge has all the hallmarks of narcissism about it.

        I’m surprised he’s only being charged now.

        There’s a story I read about a young boy who’d been adopted out and died at a young age in his adoptive parent’s care. There were no questions asked and the birth mother eventually came looking for him to make contact. When she was told he had died she decided to do some investigating. What she discovered was a horrific. The little boy had been beaten so badly there was no way his death could be related to anything other than child abuse. There were photos from the autopsy to prove it. Yet the medical examiner had concluded he died of peritonitis brought about by an undiagnosed case of appendicitis. What??!! The birth mother challenged the findings, they dug up his body (which was amazingly intact for the number of years that had passed) and they were able to prove the injuries were inflicted in an abuse scenario. The adoptive mother was arrested and charged, and eventually found guilty. I often ask myself how is this allowed to happen? There was a father in the home, there was another adopted child, a brother around the same age. He was too young to understand and probably trying to save his own life in the circumstances. But someone should have said something. Children don’t have the ability to defend themselves. Silence can be deadly. It’s a fact.

  4. BonnieLou says:

    Great read HG! It certainly opens our eyes to behaviours within our own social circles too. Can I ask, as I feel you could be a Mancunian😉. What is your view of Andy Burnham? He seems very empathic.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I am not a Mancunian.

      My view of him – he is a Mickey Mouser.

      1. BonnieLou says:

        Ooops wrong again!..but I’m still learning from the University of HG Tudor everyday 😂😂

  5. NarcAngel says:

    This article is good for a number of reasons. It also occurs to me that it highlights the collateral benefits sometimes shared by others when a narcissist is operating to achieve their own aims. HG despises weakness and that is what he sees in Joe/ape. He revels in his superiority over this clown and it fuels him to demonstrate it and assert control. It also results in admiration from Chloe and SM. That Chloe gets to have intelligent conversation while having Joe see she is not an idiot (an insult he no doubt hurls at her) and a little satisfaction from that being enforced (and hopefully eventual recognition that she must leave his abuse) it is a collateral benefit but not HG’s main focus or goal.

    We really can take what we need and leave the rest once you know what you are dealing with and achieve Zero Impact.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Well stated.

  6. NarcAngel says:

    I love this format of your narration of a specific example while I watch it unfold. It reminds me of WiserNow’s previous reference to David Attenborough (which was excellent and made me laugh). I look forward to a continuance to see how it affects Chloe and her relationship with you and SM.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Lots more to come and I’m pleased you found it useful, it’s a very instructive learning tool and people really must avail themselves of it to increase their understanding

  7. Emma says:

    I purchased a copy of this earlier on and have read it. A good entertaining read! Many thanks for sharing Mr Tudor.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Glad you enjoyed it and thank you for obtaining it.

  8. Alexissmith2016 says:

    Ooh, is this a new one HG?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It certainly is AS2016.

      1. Alexissmith2016 says:

        Lovely! I’m excited for this!

  9. lisk says:

    This looks like fun! I gotta get it.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Indeed you must.

      1. lisk says:

        Just bought and read. Great description and depiction.

        This guy was easy pickings for you, HG.

        At first I kept asking, “Why is HG even bothering?” I guess this is all in a day’s work—or play—for you.

        In a way, you were/are doing good for the world by effectively outing him as a narcissist, even if Chloe doesn’t clearly see it as such right away.

        It does not amaze me that she has had a child with this idiot—I’m not amazed because you taught me well.

        It just sucks how entangled/ensnared she is/was and that even if she chooses to leave him, she will always be connected to an idiot by way of a child.

        There but for the grace of Planned Parenthood went I.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Glads you found it interesting.

  10. FYC says:

    HG, This is an exceptional piece. I was delighted to gain a glimpse into one of your real life encounters with a narcissist. Your writing is superb, and your wit is undeniable. I feel sorry for Chloe and especially the baby. What an disgusting thug to have around. Clearly he is a narcissist for all the reasons you outline. He has no facade, therefore he is not midrange, and his quick heated (and cold) fury, absent of any real control, also suggest he is a lesser. He has no job or even prospects that an upper lesser might better be able to secure. He is a bull in a china shop. Although he has not yet resorted to direct physical violence in the story, he did smash a glass. Loads of entitlement, desperate attempts to provoke and control, but no evidence of any intellect (clearly low cognitive function and lacking awareness). Numerous boundary violations. Temper tantrums. Zero affability. Gross displays. Belligerent. I’d say his behavior is that of a middle lesser type B thus far. I would have downgraded him to lower lesser if he had threatened you physically or struck you. Clearly he has no clue with whom he is dealing! I bet very, very, few people do. Thank you so much for creating this thoroughly enjoyable and enlightening lesson. Yet another stoke of genius (of course!).

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You’re welcome and I’m pleased you enjoyed it. Thank you for your observations. It’s just Middle Lesser, there’s no type B.

      1. FYC says:

        My pleasure, HG, and my apology for my mistake on type B for a Middle Lesser. Maybe we could consider a type D, for disgusting?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Ha ha seems a sensible suggestion

    2. Emma says:

      He seriously wasn’t too bright was he? 😀 100% with you on the low intellect as well as on his awful thug like nature! Pretty pathetic really. Sounds to me like somebody every bit as much his own worst enemy as anyone else’s – perhaps even more so.

      I have to wonder if he was gay, bisexual or just deliberately did what he did with that other guy for shock value from others!

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Sexually fluid, your observation is valid.

  11. WokeAF says:

    I originally thought LMR bc what stood out was the SULKING

    ITs interesting bc ML have Mr traits , and LMR have L traits.

    BUT reading it all again,, he has more ML traits than LMR and he reeks (“feels”) just like my ML Somatic narcoholic so I’m changing my vote to Joe the ML somatic

    So now I can’t understand why ppl of culture & class (HG, SM & I assume Chloe ) are wasting a minute of time w such a buffoon

    1. HG Tudor says:

      We engaged with Chloe, he was only Interacted with because he is Chloe’s partner. Why does Chloe engage with him? You should know the answer to that.

      1. WokeAF says:

        How did I miss this comment ?
        Anyways . I’ll have to re read this lie
        Thanks to K for bringing us back !!

        1. WokeAF says:

          ^* RE READ THIS ONE

        2. K says:

          My pleasure WokeAF!

  12. WhoCares says:

    My ex wore reading glasses at times. For example, while waiting to enter the court room. He would sit there and look over the rims at people (not that I looked at him directly, but as I walked by I could see so, in my peripheral vision). I guess it was an attempt to look more studious, refined and intellectual.
    As if.

    I really enjoyed this account HG. It was chock-full of useful observations. It is amazing how you work different levels of learning all into one engaging piece of writing.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you WC, yes, not only does it provide a degree of entertainment and satisfaction seeing the master at work, it also combines various strands of education and all for a good cause as well. There really is no excuse for not obtaining it.

      1. WhoCares says:

        “it also combines various strands of education”

        Yes, exactly. You said it better than me, naturally.

        As for the AAF being a good cause – absolutely – for I have personally benefitted from it, in the past.

  13. Violetta says:

    My only reservation: the way he’s going to take it out on the others as soon as HG and SM leave. However, HG has said it’s by no means finished.

    Speaking of which, HG, is Bugs Bunny a Greater?

    1. Leigh says:

      Violetta, that was my concern too. I felt bad for Chloe. I thought for sure she would suffer the consequences and I was upset with Mr. Tudor for putting her in that situation. I kind of felt like Mr. Tudor was a bit of a bully here. I was more upset about Mr. Tudor then Joe. Joe doesn’t know what he is doing, Mr. Tudor does. I apologize Mr. Tudor. I realize that this is normal behavior for you. It still was a little difficult to handle. I had to take a step back and just look at it like it was just a story and an educational tool.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        I didn’t put her in any situation, she was already in it and I was making his behaviour clear so she could see it. He deserved to be ‘bullied’.

        1. Leigh says:

          Thank you for your response Mr. Tudor. Of course, you are correct that she put herself in that situation and yes he did deserve to be “bullied”. I, myself, have been in situations where I have to try and deescalate the situation and try to be the peacemaker, so I felt what she was going through. I was only looking at it from her perspective and that’s where I made my mistake. I should have looked at it from your perspective as well. You are correct, she needs to see him clearly. I hope it worked.

          1. Violetta says:

            The sad thing is, it’s not like he wouldn’t take it out on Chloe or the baby if HG hadn’t said or done anything. He might not have done so on that occasion, but he’d do so if someone else hurt his widdle feelings, and if Chloe didn’t see it happening, she might not make the connection.

            Eventually, she’s going to have to face the fact that she can’t control the world to avoid anyone’s upsetting Joe. Any time someone cuts him off in traffic, humiliates him at the Benefits office, or says, “God, Joe, we’ve all heard that story a hundred times!” he’s going to take it out on her or Becky. Is she going to spend every day hoping that nobody sets him off?

            Gave me chills he wouldn’t even see to Becky when she started crying, although I suppose it’s all the better if he doesn’t go near her.

            Even my borderline psychotic father knew how to change a baby, give a bottle, and coax out a burp.

          2. HG Tudor says:


          3. NarcAngel says:


            True. If it’s not this situation there are never ending reasons to ignite his fury. As you say – at least here she can see that other people find him unreasonable and that she is not imagining it.

            Which brings me to something I was going to comment on before but thought better of it and yet here I am again.

            Re: the situation you were in regarding the woman’s treatment of the child in public:

            I don’t know if this will be felt to be good advice but it is my feeling from the child’s view (and no doubt influenced by my Saviour trait).

            You did nothing wrong and I understand your confusion about intervening and the possibility of the woman taking it out on the child, but as in this case with Chloe, there will always be another reason/opportunity for them to act in this way (their perspective and it’s instinctual). It can though make all the difference to a child to have someone intervene so that they can see this behaviour is not normal and that other people recognize their worth and especially enough to address it. Even if the child defends the behaviour (becomes instinctive also in managing the adult’s rage) that your kindness and defence may stay at the edge of their consciousness and make a difference. It can also embolden others looking on to take action as well. A child needs all the acknowledgment and help they can get when trapped, and if it comes from people outside of their sphere all the better to show them there is another way and that it is not them but the abuser.

            Again Vi, this was not to point out anything wrong on your part – I understand the dilemma, but within reason (not to endanger yourself or anyone) a few words next time could make all the difference. Just be aware that the difference will be to the child, so a focus on that is better. It will be lost on the adult/abuser.

      2. FYC says:

        Leigh, I appreciate your sensitivity and I too felt sorry for Chloe and the baby. Yet, the fact that Chloe did not want HG and the SM to leave hints of a different reaction by Chloe.

        Chloe is a CoD, and therefore rarely, if ever, challenges her lesser to any significant degree (she would peace keep and try to please). I suspect she may have, on some level, appreciated HG and his tenacity yet persistent decorum in his discussion — it’s something she could not afford to do herself with her lesser. She no doubt suffers when they are alone, but cannot bring herself to leave. The signs are there.

        I hope he is not a lower lesser. In that case I would fear for her safety, but I trust that HG reads people exceptionally well and would not put the SM’s friend in danger during the GP. Plus Chloe is painted white. So all in all, though uncomfortable, I am fairly certain HG merely exposed the obvious. Chloe was not surprised in the least (but no doubt embarrassed). Let’s hope she got some subtle yet excellent advice from HG and leaves this lesser.

        HG, Please do correct me if I got this wrong.

        1. Leigh says:

          FYC says – I suspect she may have, on some level, appreciated HG and his tenacity yet persistent decorum in his discussion — it’s something she could not afford to do herself with her lesser.

          I didn’t look at it like that. You’re absolutely right. She probably did appreciate it on some level. I don’t know if she felt anxious or not but that’s what I felt for her, anxiety.

          I hope he’s not a lower lesser either. Although I think he’s a Middle Lesser and that’s not much better.

          1. NarcAngel says:

            I’m sure on one level Chloe enjoyed him getting a taste of being slapped down by superiority as she is probably subjected to that regularly by the ape (as it appears she is in devaluation) and having it not come from her (although it will be viewed as her fault). On the other hand she will have been increasingly becoming anxious at what awaits her privately after and thinking of ways to quell his fury. Also how she will paint it to HG and SM subsequently.

            Witnessed this sooooo many times.

            Eager to see how this plays out in the continuations.

          2. FYC says:

            NA I agree with your refined assessment. She no doubt would experience a degree of anxiety.

        2. Empath007 says:

          I don’t agree that Co Dependants do not challenge their partners and constantly act meek.

          I am a Co Dependant (self assesed) and anger is actually a really big part of that. My anger can hide a lot of my hurt feelings.

          I’ve always stood up for myself. I’ve had a stalker banned from entering my work place. I received a promotion when my narc was trying to bring me down at work. Just as some examples.

          Co Dependants (in my view) are the other side of the coin to a narc. We are what is created when a narc is not. This doesn’t mean that I am any good at manipulating or that I do not allow my feelings to control me at times… but I’m anything but meek when it comes right down to it.

          When I sense a battle I get my armour on. I know (now thanks to HG) that getting my armour on will just equate to fuel for a narc… so therefore I am better to GOSO.

          1. FYC says:

            Hi E007, I strongly encourage you to take the ED, I know you will find it incredibly insightful and valuable. I suspect you are not CoD majority, but may be a minority percentage. As for my comment, I did not say CoDs are constantly meek, nor did I say they never challenge their partners, I said rarely (if ever).

            My understanding of codependency is an empath who is dependent upon their partner emotionally and/or psychologically, one who has a tendency to define themselves through their partner, and in some cases lives through others vicariously. They are kind people pleasers and suppressors of their true feelings because they are not always in touch with them owing to the fact that they seek harmony and approval with others. They would defend another dear to them, but be reluctant to defend themselves. And, while intelligent, they would refrain from correcting their narcissist in an effort to keep the peace. I am no expert by any means, however, and may be wrong. In any case, I apologize if I offended you in any way.

          2. Empath007 says:

            Hi FYC. No offence taken. I agree with a lot about what you say about co Dependants in your comment.

            Not all co Dependants will react the same in every situation. I’ve always felt like I can handle myself when I need too. I’ve never felt the desire to “keep the peace” and my entanglement with the narc only lasted a year. So perhaps I’m not a typical co dedentant 🤷🏼‍♀️ But I do loose my identity in another and make them my entire world. I also crave their approval and validation in order to mend my low self esteem.

          3. FYC says:

            E007, I’m sorry to learn you feel low self-esteem. Self esteem comes from within, it can never be obtained from without. Of course it feels good if someone likes, loves, approves and adores you, but that is other esteem, not self esteem. I would want you to see the treasure that you are and know your worth regardless of who is in your life. I hope you will take the time to really love, value and appreciate yourself as you would someone else. You deserve to know you are worth everything as is. Give yourself your own approval. Don’t miss out on embracing the one person you will be with every day of your life, you.

          4. Empath007 says:

            I’m working on it FYC… one day at a time ❤️ Thanks for your kind words and encouragement.

      3. truthseeker6157 says:

        I admit I have no willpower. Couldn’t keep this until Friday.

        Nice touch with the choice of champagne HG. Ha ha! Also a lovely demonstration of the fact that timing is everything.

        I’m rubbish with classifications. I’d have to go Upper Lesser type B Elite for Joe.

        I loved reading about the taking apart of Joe. I need to read it a few times to fully register how it was done. It’s subtle but continuous. People often back down in debate if someone is getting irate. No need to make this allowance if you are a narcissist yourself.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          And no need to do so when one is correct.

          1. truthseeker6157 says:

            Also true!

        2. NarcAngel says:

          Life is short. Leave saving and the denial of things you can enjoy in the present to the masochists.

          1. truthseeker6157 says:

            Ha ha NA,

            Can’t help it. As a kid I used to save my Easter eggs until summer. I liked to look at them and know they were still there.

            I have however got a cut and colour booked in for Friday. Can’t wait. Going to look like a goddess for my first tennis lesson that evening. ( didn’t really think that through did I?). And if I so much as suspect that tennis coach is a narc, he’s going to be wearing his tennis racket!

    2. K says:

      I reread When HG met the Narcissist and I caught this:

      “He was the partner of Chloe” (was is the operative word)

      I am looking forward to part two.

      1. Leigh says:

        I didn’t catch that. 👀 Oh, that makes me feel so much better. This is why you have to read and then reread.

        1. K says:

          I miss tons of information/clues during the “First Read” but I usually pick them up during the second and third read.

          1. Violetta says:

            Same for the recordings. (Plus gives me an excuse to enjoy The Voice again–as if one were needed).

        2. K says:

          Exactly Violetta!

  14. Summer says:

    This was so great! I laughed out loud several times!! Thanks so much for the ‘Edu tainment’

  15. Leigh says:

    This is a great tool to educate us. Thank you Mr. Tudor.

    At first I thought he might be a Lower Mid Range. Now I’m leaning toward Middle Lesser. The Middle Lesser has some characteristics from the Mid Range school such a sulking, silent treatments and temper tantrums. Plus you mentioned he was uneducated, had no regard to façade management and you kept mentioning that you thought he may get physical with you. Mid Rangers are usually educated, maintain a façade and aren’t prone to physical violence.

    My final answer is Middle Lesser.

    Will you be supplying us with the answer? I hope so!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I will be doing so I’m allowing people the chance to obtain and work it out before I do.

    2. WokeAF says:

      All valid and the smashing the glass is ML

  16. Violetta says:

    HG taking down another Narcissist? Count me in!

  17. FYC says:

    Count me in! Just sent payment. I look forward to this.

  18. Caity says:

    Very much enjoyed this, HG, thank you. My assessment is lower midrange type B…looking forward to the poll.

  19. Leela says:

    Whew, what a story! I already wanted to ask you, H.G., if you can do The Stare but now my question is answered. 😀

    And of course I donated to AAF and hope that many many more victims of narcs can GOSO! 🙂

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you for doing so

      1. Leela says:

        You´re very welcome! I wanna help other victims of narcissists! I know how it is to suffer from narcissistic abuse. As IPPS it most be hell!

        I just know narcissistic abuse from Patri Narc and being a former NISS of a mid ranger (but that one was not so bad).

  20. K says:

    At first I suspected Joe of being a LMRN but, based on his lack of education, behavior and temper, I think he is a ULN. That was fun BTW.

    “lick my eyeball” …what a clown.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Pleased you enjoyed it and thanks for sharing your thoughts on school. I won’t confirm just yet to allow others to access the material and form a view. I may put it to the vote as well

      1. K says:

        My pleasure! Cadre: somatic, and I have no words for “the fingering” in front of the 14 guests! Speechless…

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Total shithousery

    2. Yes, I was thinking lower midrange too, type B. I guess we shall see!

      1. K says:

        HIs aggression over the cheese and, at the dinner table in general, the sulking and stalking off were all great indicators of Type B.

        1. Yes, that or a toddler without a nap. Both very similar….

          1. K says:

            Hahahaha…he needed a slap and a nap and he woke up the poor baby!

      2. Leigh says:

        Doesn’t type B fall under Middle Mid Range? I don’t believe he’s a Middle Mid Range. He doesnt seem to have any facade management and the MMR Type B is adept at maintaining their facade. Plus the MMR Type B has the whole “poor me” attitude and thinks everyone is against them and hates them. Joe doesn’t seem to be like that. My guess is Lower Mid Range or Middle Lesser.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes, there’s no LMR Type B

          1. I stand corrected. More homework for me…

    3. fox says:

      I totally agree with your assessment, K.

      1. K says:

        Thank you Fox
        the ad hominem attack and glass incident reminded me of my lessers.

        1. fox says:

          Oof, sorry you have some up close experience with lessers, K. I think my ex boyfriend may have also been ULN. He thought he was incredibly philosophically deep, waking me up in the middle of the night to give these epic monologues, but mostly talking nonsense. He got nasty when drunk, punched a wall a few times. He told me once that he thought women are inferior. I laughed in his face at that because he clearly couldn’t see what a pile of garbage he was being. After he died, I found out he was arrested months prior for pissing on the subway train! (I suspect there was more to his behavior than just narcissism.) Real winner of a guy. It’s embarrassing looking back how much I put up with and how much I cared, but I was young and dumb. Never have since and never will again. You and I deserve so much better, K.

          1. K says:

            Thank you fox
            We most certainly do deserve better!

            Lessers can be very grandiose and will spout a lot of nonsense (Word Salads) and they love the “word”: irregardless; it makes them look like a Rhodes Scholar in their world and punching holes in walls is a big Red Flag for that School.

            Pissing on the subway is an excellent example of dominance/superiority and lack of facade. He’s Da Man! Sorry you had to put up with that crap. I grew up with Lessers and they are ghastly.

            If you don’t mind my asking, how did he die and, please, don’t feel obligated to answer. Some of my Lessers have died from alcoholism, overdoses or reckless driving.

          2. Violetta says:


            I don’t know that pissing on the subway indicates Narcissism. I’ve had to find a deserted corner of the platform when I was coming back from a long night of pogoing and had imbibed too many vodka-crans (purely to keep my bronchial tubes open in the days when smoking in clubs and concert halls was permitted, of course). Fortunately, CCTV wasn’t general yet.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Didn’t they have toilets in the club? Regulate yourself.

          4. Violetta says:


            Of course I used the club loo before I left! Still got caught transferring from the 6 to the N/R. Besides, one of my dates set the example, and when he returned, he said, “Don’t you wish you were a guy? So convenient.”
            The power of suggestion….

          5. HG Tudor says:

            Be a lady.

          6. Violetta says:

            1. Female urethras are shorter then male. This means girls can be potty-trained earlier, as they have fewer axons to myelinate, but it also means they are more likely to be frequent flyers as adults.

            2. Cranberry is supposed to be good for the urinary tract, but it can be too acidic for some people. My vodka-crans were counter-productive.

            3. “Lady”?

            Have you confused me with a different reader?

          7. HG Tudor says:

            Oddly enough, none of the ladies I have been involved with, despite having a shorter urethra than mine, have ever been compelled to take a piss on a subway platform/station to otherwise in a public place. They do often need to urinate more often, so they go to the bathroom more frequently.

          8. Violetta says:

            Anyone who lives in NYC knows you always hit the loo right before you leave any place. You never know when you’ll be stuck between stations because of a track fire, a sick passenger, a police action, etc.

            My guess is when you were in NYC, you did not have to travel between boroughs. The trip from a rehearsal in Brooklyn back to Manhattan out to Queens can take an hour-and-a-half without delays. (You could transfer from Brooklyn to Queens if you’re willing to get off at the dreaded Smith and 9th, but nobody wants to do that until Tech Week when they’ve been up until 2am every night and have stopped caring whether they’ll be murdered.)

            The trip from a club in Soho or the Meatpacking District to Queens is quicker, but of course by the time the clubs let out, the trains are coming more rarely.

            You probably used a car service in NYC, and if you have regularly used public trans in the UK, don’t know about regional, but the London Tube is amazeballs efficient compared to the MTA, and an absolute dream to ride (except for the violent drunks coming from whatever sports event that was).

            Anyhow, smoking is banned in most places now, so I don’t have that excuse. Just enough alky for a buzz. Don’t even need it for moshing courage, because I won’t get in the pit for anyone but a Ramone, and there are few of them left.

          9. fox says:

            K, to answer your question, he committed suicide, which may be a surprise. He often talked about a genetic disease that would kill him at an early age, so I believe ultimately he wanted control over when he died. Of course, he had to hoover me first, which is how I know what happened. Tracked me down after several years of silence. I was one of the last people he spoke to. I tried to talk him out of it, even though I wanted nothing to do with him. I checked in on him the next day, but no answer. I felt pretty horrible about it for a while, but there was nothing I could have done to stop him. And quite frankly, I’m relieved to know I’ll never hear from him again.

          10. truthseeker6157 says:

            This has made me laugh out loud.
            I have never been caught short in public. I have however thrown up on the steps of the automobile club of France in Paris. Does it get more public?
            In my defence I was in a game of round the world in a nearby bar. I was doing really well until one of the guys ordered pints of lager for his turn. That did it. I fought the good fight. Sadly, game over.

            I think I’m going to need to read this material before Friday aren’t I?

          11. fox says:

            truthseeker6157, I have also puked in public in Paris! I was feeling incredibly ill after my flight in, rode the bus into Paris from the airport which made matters much worse. I tried to fight it long enough to find a public restroom, but alas, a hidden alley way corner had to do, haha. I came back to the same location days later and realized there was, in fact, a public restroom nearby. Ah well. Sorry, Parisians.

          12. K says:

            Hahahahaha…gotta keep those bronchial tubes open! We, narcs and empaths, are exactly the same but completely different

            fox wrote: on the subway train! (exclamation point indicates shock/disgust)

            you wrote: I’ve had to find a deserted corner (you had the decency to be discreet)

            I inferred that fox’s BF urinated on the train, however, he could have urinated on the exterior of the train, too. Either way, it is an assertion of superiority.

            Sherlock Holmes S3:E3 His Last Vow

            Magnussen urinates into the fireplace at 221b Baker street in the presence of John and Sherlock. He’s the boss.

            CCTV mucks everything up.

          13. Kiki says:


            You should try the West Coast of Ireland HG , public ladies toilets are like unicorns , I always have to revert to hiding behind the sea rocks to make my pee. 😀.


          14. HG Tudor says:

            The occasional Wild Nature Wee is worlds away from The Subway Piss Stream

          15. K says:

            Although rare for a narcissist to commit suicide, I am not surprised by it. If he knew he was dying then it makes sense for him to assert control over that situation. You are correct; you couldn’t have done anything to stop it and it is a relief knowing they cannot cause you, or anyone else, harm anymore.

            My cousin’s decomposing body was found two days before her birthday and she was a bad alcoholic and heroin addict; she had to be cremated. She was an LLN and spent some time in prison.

          16. fox says:

            Wow K, I’m sorry, that must have been difficult to deal with, even if she was an LLN.

          17. K says:

            Thank you fox
            She was a menace to society so it was a relief, however, the situation was sad all around.

          18. NarcAngel says:

            While I agree with the suggestion (where possible) to “regulate” and “be a lady”, I find it ironic and amusing.

            I am reminded of the contradictory nature of a narcissist and it highlights the importance of facade and superiority in suggesting that for someone while they themselves engage in behaviours that take a metaphorical dump over the lives of people whether they piss on a platform or damage an organ saving it for a throne of gold. In the end it does not matter how the target conducted themselves as to the eventual outcome.

            Sounds good though.

          19. truthseeker6157 says:

            ‘The occasional Wild Nature Wee…’

            There are classifications now?!

          20. HG Tudor says:

            Of course, classification enables analysis and understanding across all fields. Lavatorial behaviours no longer need discussion however.

          21. truthseeker6157 says:


            You are excused. Travel sickness is the worst! I used to suffer horribly with it as a kid. I’ll never forget a school coach trip to the Yorvik Viking centre. I sat next to Aisling O‘Brian who was gleefully drinking raspberry pop and eating spicy sausage rolls. Gawd I felt rough!

          22. truthseeker6157 says:

            Ha ha, Understood HG.

          23. HG Tudor says:

            Jolly good.

          24. Violetta says:

            Sorry, HG. I didn’t mean to take the–

          25. HG Tudor says:

            On the contrary, you were liberally spraying it rather than taking it. You ought to have taken it to a bathroom. Matter closed.

          26. Witch says:

            .you shag in public
            .police turn up
            .empath rattled
            .refuses to engage in public sex in the future with you

            Now do you understand?

          27. HG Tudor says:

            Police would not pose an issue. Empath not rattled. Now do you understand?

          28. Witch says:

            How would the police not present an issue?

          29. HG Tudor says:

            Two reasons :-

            1. They would not because of who I am and what I do.
            2. They are too busy policing snowflakes getting offended on Twitter to deal with much else.

          30. Witch says:

            They would have to turn up to find out who you are which may still embarrass the empath

          31. HG Tudor says:

            I would not be there.

          32. K says:

            Re police turning up; I wouldn’t be there either.

          33. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha.

        2. Witch says:

          “Oddly enough, none of the ladies I have been involved with, despite having a shorter urethra than mine, have ever been compelled to take a piss on a subway platform/station to otherwise in a public place.“

          Okay and???
          They are getting into your car, not traveling 2-3 hours back home on public transport with 7 drinks in their system.
          Us broke bitches need survival skills like finding the back of a building or bush to piss while our bredren holds their coat up to conceal us. You don’t know the struggles we face.
          Stop being such a snob!

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Actually, you jump to conclusions, public transport has been used and they have not ever pissed in a public place as described.

            Stop being so inaccurate.

          2. Witch says:

            And you don’t know what they have done before you and after you, when you’re not around
            I’ve peed in the park on several occasions when a toliet is not near by (that is still public) I’ve also peed in a phone booth (desperate times)
            doesn’t mean I’ve peed publically around every narc lover for them to know about it

          3. Violetta says:


            I’m trying to imagine you on the NYC subway and failing miserably.

            How would you react to the Man From Mars (if he’s still around)? The Vietnam Veterans who were about 5 years old when the war ended (it’s probably Gulf Wars by now)? The guy (invariably with an Outer Boroughs accent) who responds to announcements of a delay because if a Sick Passenger with a snarled “T’row ‘im off and let’s get goin’; I’m late for woik”?

            You definitely wouldn’t like the Asian guy selling the plastic boy dolls that, when you pull their trousers down, they–

            Oh never mind.

          4. Emma says:

            It’s awful that better toilet facilities aren’t available on public transport I agree. 😉 While I personally hate the idea of going anywhere in public/would strongly prefer not to I’ve done it on the rare occasion when I’ve been desperate!

          5. HG Tudor says:

            Trains have toilets.

          6. Witch says:

            Over ground trains have toliets, not underground and there are a lot of stations that don’t have toliets in the building or they close after a certain time.
            I’ve seen plenty of strange men peeing publicly and only one woman – at least we try to be as discreet as possible. Expecting someone to never pee in public is unrealistic

          7. HG Tudor says:

            Your degeneracy knows no bounds, now you stand watching men pissing in public! Dear me!

          8. Witch says:

            This is coming from someone who whips out their dick in public and has sex in public in front of pensioners (what if you give em a heart attack? That’s someone’s granddad!)
            but has a cheek to judge my voyeristic urges over public pissing? Pot kettle black, mate!

          9. HG Tudor says:

            My cock and shagging are matters of beauty and delight. Unlike your behaviour Pip!

          10. Witch says:

            And these men have been rather chuffed by my leering, thank you very much.
            In your case, I’d call the police

          11. HG Tudor says:

            Feel free, wouldn’t do you any good believe me.

          12. K says:

            Compromise: See Wet Work – Horrible Bosses on YouTube.

          13. “My cock and shagging are matters of beauty and delight.”

            An image just flashed into my head of someone wearing this on a t-shirt 😊

          14. HG Tudor says:

            I’ve the copyright on that, Tiger, just so you’re aware!

          15. 😊

          16. Witch says:

            It would do me some good by giving me some thought fuel over your rattled empath and her future resistance to humouring you in that way again for fear of getting caught

          17. HG Tudor says:

            Non sequitur

          18. Violetta says:


            Oh dear Lor’ that video.

            Never thought about the mechanics of doing that sort of thing in the living room. I just assumed they used something with a drain.

          19. Violetta says:


            Actually, when I had recurring health problems that exacerbated the frequent flyer miles, this couple I know who got kicked out of The Vault (long story) said there were people who would pay me for that.

    4. WhoCares says:


      I think you pegged the range; he hovers between LMRN and ULN type B. But I am taking a shot at his cadre: Elite.
      It will be insightful to see HG’s final analysis.

      1. K says:

        It was awful! He behaved like a stooge and his barely contained hostility indicates Lesser and his lack of formal education and inability to debate suggests Somatic.

        I agree; it will be interesting to see the final analysis.

  21. MB says:

    Another memorable birthday for all the wrong reasons. Poor Chloe. No fault of yours of course, HG.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Ah but wait and see what happened next!

      1. MB says:

        I can’t wait!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It’s well worth accessing this material for various reasons, in fact I’m perplexed if anyone does not do so. You were first out of the gate by the way

          1. MB says:

            I can’t pass up an opportunity for some fresh HG work and for a great cause!

          2. HG Tudor says:

            HG approves

      2. fox says:

        Ooooo, exciting!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Very much the case, Fox

  22. Kim says:

    Waiting for the film version. Now that would pad AAF forever
    Very entertaining HG. Thanks for another peek into your world

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You’re welcome and than in you for supporting the AAF.

  23. MB says:

    I enjoyed reading this. Very entertaining HG. Thank you for letting us be the fly on the wall. (And for the AAF donations of course!)

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You’re welcome

    2. fox says:

      It was such a satisfying read!

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Glad you thought so.

  24. truthseeker6157 says:

    I’m saving this until next Friday. I think you know why ha ha!

    When did you write this HG?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Fairly recently.

      1. truthseeker6157 says:

        Thought that might be the case.

        We asked. You provided. Then tagged to AAF.

        You’re alright sometimes Mr Tudor.

  25. fox says:

    When I saw this I immediately snatched it up! AND it’s a donation to AAF? You spoil us, HG.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I do. There’s no excuses for people not donating.

      1. K says:

        It is a brilliant way to work around it.

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