The Magnet Cadre of Empath

 

THE MAGNET EMPATH

The Magnet Empath. This is an empathic individual who has certain magnetic tendencies which are layered onto their classification as an empath, super empath or co-dependent. The Magnet Empath is a person that people are instinctively and naturally drawn to. This person has an inner light which is easily recognised by certain people; those who are in need.

The Magnet Empath might be sat on a tube train when the person next to them will find an irresistible urge to want to tell them that they are travelling to an important interview and they are feeling nervous. The Magnet Empath might be waiting in line to be served in a shop when the customer behind them begins to tell them about their concerns and worries, or where the Magnet Empath is sat watching the swans on a lake when a stranger will sit beside them and start to tell their life story.

If you find that complete strangers have a tendency to share intimate and private details with you at the drop of a hat, that they feel a need to off load to you within moments of meeting you and confide in you about their hopes, fears and problems, then you have this magnetic quality.

You draw those in need to you. This is because you shine with this inner light which acts as a beacon of hope and that is what the Magnet Empath embodies; hope. Your empathic nature lights up rooms, illuminates the darkest of situations and brightens the dullest day and this is because you are a walking beacon of hope.

The Magnet Empath moves with confidence and purpose. There is no swagger or arrogance in the way that they enter a room, this person glides, they are serene and elegant. You will not witness any timid scurrying or rolling shoulder bluster, but somebody who is calm and assured. This individual has a clear sense of self – something which appeals to our kind – and this radiates wherever they are. Heads turn, eyes focus and people gravitate towards the appearance of the Magnet Empath. People’s faces light up, there is a lifting of the mood and people want to be seen with and to be next to the Magnet Empath.

Whereas our kind expects this kind of reaction from those around us and indeed seeks and demands it, the Magnet Empath accepts attention with grace and humility. They are not shy, they are not reserved, but there is none of the bluff and bragging that would accompany the engagement of a narcissist with those assembled. The Magnet Empath moves amongst people with a lightness of touch, an encouraging smile, a soft hand placed on the arm and hope shines from him or her.

The Magnet Empath will talk about themselves but in a manner which is encouraging and inspirational. Whilst our kind will also inspire it is done from a platform of declaring one’s own brilliance and you should be more like me.

Those with the magnetic empathy will inspire by explaining that the listener is already empowered they just need to release it and to explain that if the magnetic empath can achieve certain aims then so can the listener. They emphasise the connectivity between them and those they interact with, demonstrating how essentially, since they are empathic individuals, they are all cut from the same cloth.

The narcissist will demonstrate how we are a cut above and use jealousy and envy as motivational tools instead, demanding improvement, whipping individuals into action for fear of the consequences of not doing so, emphasising the difference between the narcissist and the listener and indicating, heavily, that the listener needs to shape up or ship out, go big or go home, if he or she is to achieve anything.

He or she is content for others to share the limelight and indeed positively encourages it which contrasts with the spotlight stealing behaviour of our kind, but this also acts as an attracting factor to our kind. We identify somebody who can capture the spotlight but does not wish to hog it, allowing us to camp on to it instead.

The Magnet Empath wants to harness potential, bring motivation through the provision of hope, the instilling of belief and the raising of optimism. The Magnet Empath is not one of practicality however. They will not assume the mantle of responsibility for an individual and will not get their hands excessively dirty on behalf of another but rather their aim is to cause those around them to feel better in themselves through their own innate abilities, to tap into as yet unharnessed skills and attributes.

This person provides panache and style, bringing hope through words, rather than through actions, a person who can influence in a positive manner the lives of many. Whereas the Carrier Empath is a rugged and practical individual and tends to focus on assisting only a few people, sometimes often only one – usually our kind – the Magnet Empath can affect many people at once with their messages of hope and inspiration.

This individual always believes in hope. This is what drives them and causes them to provide extensive fuel generated by this hope. They hope that love can conquer all and therefore are significant love devotees. They refuse to give up, often flogging a dead horse, endeavouring to overcome the insurmountable. This hope often blinds those with magnetic tendencies to the reality of a situation and causes them to engage in courses of action which invariably result in harm to the empathic person. Blind hope will take them down a path which will be exploited by our kind.

Excellent fuel is generated by this gracious individual, their words inspiring, uplifting, praising and complimenting. They are content to say all of these words and expect little or nothing in return, save that the listener grasps hope and secures growth and achievement. The Magnet Empath is also easily led by false exhibitions of hope, the slightest glimmer is something that they will latch on to in the expectation of improvement and seeing changes. Where the narcissist gives this person cause to hope, it will cause the individual to remain in the grasp of the narcissist as they dangle hope before them to keep them bound.

Often this person need not say anything. Their composure and general demeanour marks them out as who they are, which means that many people engage with them as strangers, unaware that sub-consciously they are drawn to the Magnet Empath. These people are sought after as inspirational speakers, people who present prizes, open new buildings, support charitable trusts and such like and their popularity in this regard and the desire of people who just want to reach out and be touched by the Magnet Empath means that they will often find themselves pulled in many directions and spread thin.

This impacts on their energy levels as they feel unable to say no to anybody, not wanting to extinguish the hope that they have begun to cultivate. Instead the Magnet Empath will often take on many different obligations and functions for a wide variety of people with not only consequences for their own ability to deliver but their interaction with our kind when we have ensnared a Magnet Empath.

The Lesser Narcissist tend not to choose those with strong magnetic tendencies. This is because the jealous nature of the narcissist as a whole, but especially the less capable Lesser, means that they fear being overshadowed far too quickly and their resentment would be palpable notwithstanding their seduction. The Lesser’s low control threshold would result in him or her being unable to keep their fury under control during seduction and thus the seduction would fail. Accordingly, it is not attempted.

Furthermore, the Lesser will hate the attention that this individual would receive with the upshot that the Lesser would be ignored and overlooked. Unable to compete, the Lesser would be repeatedly wounded and notwithstanding the fuel that comes from the Magnet Empath, this would not be enough. Thus it is unusual to find a Lesser who has ensnared such a person.

The Mid-Ranger likes and wants those empaths with magnetic qualities as they encompass those attributes – charisma, likeability, people skills – which the Mid Ranger believes that he or she has and wishes to project to the world at large. Those with magnetic tendencies prove to be a double-edged sword however. The Mid Ranger will struggle to resist, naturally being drawn to this person for who they are because they are prime material for the narcissist, but find themselves awash with jealousy and envy once devaluation begins. During seduction, these traits can be kept in check and the Mid Ranger will appropriate the benign traits of the Magnet Empath for his own use, but once devaluation commences, he becomes coated in envy which will manifest as prolonged and repeated sulking silent treatments.

The Greater Narcissist revels in the Magnet Empath. Possessing similar levels of charm and magnetism, the Greater finds mirroring extremely easy in order to attract this type of empath. The Magnet Empath’s popularity is also appealing to the Greater who basks in the reflected glory of other people’s enthusiasm, praises the Greater for being with such a wonderful person and naturally soaks up the motivating and complimentary words of the Magnet Empath towards him or her. The Greater regards their acquisition as one which actually saves the Greater some work by attracting additional appliances which the Greater will draw fuel from, hijack as his own appliances and then turn against the Magnet Empath when the smearing commences during devaluation.

The Magnet Empath is a popular person with many empathic attributes, their energy level is not as great as other kinds since they engage more in words than actions, but that is not to say they do not act, just not to the same degree as other types of empath. They also have many demands on their time and attention which ultimately will clash with the desires of our kind, resulting in conflict and control. This will not only hurt this type of empath but result in them feeling torn since they feel obliged to assist others, not just the narcissist and this will result in the narcissist wishing to regulate those behaviours and isolate the Magnet Empath. Their capacity to draw people to them in whatever circumstance, even when not actively doing so, will irk the narcissist considerably during devaluation and provide him or her with the grounds for attack and triangulation.

An excellent fuel provider, both in themselves and the ability to bring others to the narcissist’s table and  the Magnet Empath is someone who hangs in there, always strung along by hope, which is at the centre of the magnet’s being,usually to their ultimate detriment during devaluation and also in terms of susceptibility to post discard/post escape hoovering.

The Empath Detector

92 thoughts on “The Magnet Cadre of Empath

  1. Fiddleress says:

    NA
    As much as I wish that English were a universal language, it is not – not really. So I am afraid there is nothing universal about the word ‘cunt’ , and it does need to be translated.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      By universal I meant that much like the word fuck, I don’t know anyone (English speaking or otherwise) who doesn’t recognize the word cunt or understand the connotation when uttered. That’s all.

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        NA, I need to disagree with you on that. “Cunt” is a word with a high degree of connotative meaning, nobody uses it literally but rather as slang. Slang is characteristic of each particular linguistic community, not even language but could vary in different dialects, social backgrounds, contexts in general. If I open the dictionary and read the literal meaning of “cunt,” the definition would not help me understand the word in depending what contexts. To translate the word you need to make use of a technique called “adaptation” which consists simply on avoiding literal translation and finding an equivalent expression or word in the other language/culture. “Fuck” is the same. When you utter the sentence “fuck you, stupid narcissist” chances are you are not using the literal meaning of the verb “fuck,” but instead, using it in a cultural manner to express anger. But if you say “it was fucking awesome” fuck means a very different thing. All of this means there is no fixed, universal understanding. It all depends on context. And “cunt” is a difficult one to translate.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          I thought it more the context in which they are used that was important. Most people when called a cunt do not respond with thank you. Sure, some could use it in humour with someone they know very well but again -it would be the context. Fuck you and I want to fuck you also are very different but not the word itself. It’s the context in my view.

          In any case, much is being made of this and I only said it as there seemed to be 2 different formal interpretations at that point that were not agreeing and I thought: I hope this doesn’t escalate when pretty much everyone knows the words in any language but it depends how it’s used so not to worry.

          Nothing negative was meant by my comment. The opposite actually.

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            NA, I never saw anything negative! My motto is: “I need more context.”
            We agree.

        2. MommyPino says:

          SP I enjoyed your explanation on literal translations and the technique of “adaptation” to know the right context of the word. As an immigrant with English as a second language I can totally relate to what you are saying and it has been a huge challenge for me in my daily life but I didn’t know the appropriate names for them until now. Thanks Prof! 😉

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Haha been there, MP!!! Adaptation is my students’ favorite technique because it allows for more creative translations and deeper immersions into the two different cultures. Think of puns, traditional sayings, children’s storytelling formulas (once upon a time) and… insults! Swearing is the first thing a person wants to learn in another language.

      2. Sweetest Perfection says:

        Also, sorry for my uncalled for dosage of nerdiness, I am literally “lost in translations” that I have to grade at this moment so I couldn’t refrain from commenting. Anything to save me from this misery!

  2. Empath007 says:

    In a way I miss the days before I was aware of what I am… I used to have such a glow and confidence as you describe in the article. And while that girl is still in here somewhere…. I feel like he took away some of that light. Like what I am is bad because someone could manipulate it so easily, and take away my hope.

    1. alexissmith2016 says:

      It comes back E007 x

    2. Eternity says:

      Emaptg 007, i feel the same way. I am still trying to find myself. It will take a long time as he also took everything from me including my soul. We will be ok.

  3. leelasfuelstinks says:

    Oops, looks like some people here come from Vam Saknins party 😉 😀

    The word co-narcissist is totally outdated and there´s no “inverted narcissist”.

    Just saying…. 0 % Magnet Empath here 😉 😀

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Correct.

  4. erwinvandenbos says:

    The ones In need that draw to you are more often not the ones you want to help. I once told a lesser that I onley help those that,at least try to, help themselves. She then told me ‘well when I help myself I don’t need you anymore’. lol

  5. Angel says:

    Do you differ from other self professed high profile narcissists in your opinion about the existence of empaths?

    I have seen much talk lately of there being no such thing as an empath. The view being punted is that so-called empaths are actually disordered themselves, and are actually inverted narcissists, people with BPD, or traumatised codependents.

    I’m curious to hear your take on this stance.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. I am not self-professed but diagnosed.
      2. Yes, I do differ from one view that has been expounded that empaths do not exist. That view has been advanced owing to an inability to control the jealousy and resentment towards the empath resulting in an erroneous observation.
      3. Empaths are not disordered. Empaths have an addiction too narcissists. The reason for this and what it does (along with how it can be addressed) is covered in detail in The Addiction Triple Package.
      4. Empaths are not inverted narcissists (pointless term), they may be mislabelled with BPD where they are suffering from PTSD and a co dependent is a form of empath.

      1. Asp Emp says:

        Good to read your response.

        1. Eternity says:

          Me too Asp Emp. I didn’t even know about being an Empath.
          I find that people are always stopping me on the street asking me for the time, and for directions. Either they want to start a conversation or try and mug me haha

          1. Asp Emp says:

            Maybe “I have to be elsewhere” (#4 of HG’s The Empath’s Riposte Grenades) could come in handy? I usually just wave them off, saying “No” and walking away – even those standing on the pavement with clipboards……. yawn….

      2. lickemtomorrow says:

        So glad you’ve got our backs, HG. That’s certainly what it feels like.

        And I don’t think I could possibly understand the link between the two (narcissists and empaths) if you had not explained it so well and related it to addiction.

        Everything makes so much sense. And the best part is that means we can begin to work on the issues. Ever so grateful again.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome.

        2. Empath007 says:

          Hi lickem. Co dependants may be described that way because we also have a desperate need for control. But our need is different and often in trying to control another (the most widely used example is someone else’s drinking) then we often don’t notice we aren’t controlling the situation… the situation is controlling us.

          The trauma from childhood makes us think everything is our own responsibility and that we must take responsibility for others and their issues. We also like to manipulate (or try too). We can often be hard to deal with because we do not mean what we say and we do not say what we mean. Sort of like a narcissist. But for entirely different reasons.

          I also (personally) can have anger issues. They are not very prevelant in my day to day life.. but put me under the pressure cooker and I can explode like a narcissist. I can act scary. The difference is… the act is followed by a profound sense of guilt and worthlessness and remorse.As I often feel guilt for things that are not even my own!

          We have empathy and are high in empathetic traits. But we are borne out of the same traumas from childhood.

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            Hi Empath 007, I can definitely relate to what you have said. Both empaths and narcissists seek control but in different ways. It is a survival strategy for us both. And I agree it is borne from the traumas of childhood. We think whatever is wrong must be our fault and therefore we are required to fix it. We are the forever responsible, not seeing or having the ability to put the responsibility back where it belongs and freeing ourselves from that burden.

            Interesting you should mention manipulations and I think they are designed to fulfill that sense of responsibility and placate the narcissist as part of the survival strategy, We try to please them – as we are designed to do by the narcissist – and lose ourselves in many ways in the attempt. As the narcissist desires, it’s not about us but about them. And they foster this narrative, encouraging us to form certain manipulations which fulfill their desire for fuel. it is not malicious in any way, but more an instinctual response to how we’ve been manipulated ourselves.

            i think the pressure cooker element is part of the trauma experienced and the lack of control that engendered. I know I can feel rage at times which also lacks a filter depending on the circumstances and it almost inevitably ties back to my mother’s machinations. Any inkling of that and I have a visceral reaction. The ultimate in ‘triggering’. And it all goes back to trauma. There can be guilt associated with it as I realize my reaction has been a knee jerk response. The most frustrating thing is when you are dealing with a narcissist who deliberately baits you into such responses. Knowing your vulnerabilities and playing on them. I try not to be too hard on myself while at the same time always reflecting and offering an apology where I think one is due.

            It’s good to get the clarification from HG here on the difference between the empath and narcissist, and thank you for reminding me of the fact we are empaths, but damaged ones who can also ‘light up’ (or alternatively put lower our empathic traits) when necessary and when we realize we are being abused. Fromm my perspective, that’s something to embrace and not be embarrassed or ashamed about.

            Always appreciate your input <3

          2. JB says:

            Empath007, I don’t know what I am, but I can identify with all of this. The need to be in control (but not in a way which hurts others), the occasional anger ex p explosions, and the feelings which follow. It’s interesting (and sad) to read that others are the same as me.

          3. JB says:

            Empath007, the other more recent thing I have experienced is a feeling of rage like rebellion. I guess it’s me finally saying enough is enough?

            Apologies for error in my previous message! Sent it too quickly!

      3. mommypino says:

        HG, I cannot confirm this to be true as I do not follow or read Sam Vaknin. There was a commenter in a Facebook group for victims of narcissists that I have been following for a while now who posted that Vaknin claims that empaths are also narcissists and our narcissism keeps us engaging with narcissists. I explained to her that empaths can have strong narcissistic traits but we have empathy. I told her that these narcissistic traits combined with our empathic traits can get corrupted and cause us to keep engaging with narcissists. I sent her links to some of your articles and recommended a trait detector consult.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Well done. I understand that this incorrect assertion has emanated from the same place. it is just attention seeking.

          1. mommypino says:

            Thank you HG. I always share your articles in that FB group and a lot of times people are so thankful. To Control is To Cope is always a hit whenever I share it.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you for sharing this is important.

          3. lickemtomorrow says:

            I have seen co -dependents described as co-narcissists by one well respected professional and I would be inclined to agree with her perception in this regard, and your own work in “Chained” seems to indicate an impression that co-d’s are ‘unformed’ narcissists. I have not quite completed reading yet and baulked at the description there because it made us sound pathetic (from the narcissist’s perspective). Like we were just failed narcissists 😛 I need to finish reading. Soon.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Unformed yes, but that still means not a narcissist. The codependent cannot be a narcissist or co-narcissist because they have emotional empathy, narcissists do not. Terms such as co-narcissist or inverted narcissist are inaccurate and misleading. They really do not help when victims plague themselves with “Am I a narcissist?” No. You are not, you are most likely an empath and you are clearly the victim of a narcissist. This is why my work needs to be shared and advocated far and wide to remove these errors which are at best unhelpful and at worst dangerous.

          5. lickemtomorrow says:

            Thank you for the clarification, HG. I agree it is not helpful when questioning yourself as to whether you could be a narcissist also and I’ve never liked the term inverted. It’s important to recognize the status of “victim” in relation to the empath, so I will continue to spread the word, too.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Hg approves.

          7. Violetta says:

            HG:

            The “a little bit pregnant” analogy you’ve used at times seems to work very well. People with limited empathy may be Narcissistic, but if they’re capable of feeling any at all, not just faking the cognitive stuff, they are not Narcissists.

            I don’t know if Vaknin actually said otherwise since I don’t follow him. Maybe someone misquoted him. I don’t find his approach terribly interesting, but I didn’t get the impression he was stupid.

      4. Empath007 says:

        We are not disordered.

        You are too kind good sir.
        As I’ve often wondered….

      5. Renarde says:

        Hg

        Yes, I often wondered about the diagnosis part.

        You must have been the proverbial ‘wet dream’. They must have been going through the criteria and at some point they just have thought, ‘Holy fuck! We’ve got a live one here!’ Tremendous. Great work.

        I’ve never had a psychologist, counsellor or psychiatrist who has ever made a clinical diagnosis of NPD. I mean, we are only talking about nearly 17% of the population.

        It’s like me rocking up to a school and asserting I know French. I do not know French but if I keep on repeating it often enough I’ll probably be taken on.

        Je m’appelle Renarde. Je suis en cunt.

        Mignetting.

        1. Truthseeker6157 says:

          Bahahaha!

          Now with the accent!

          1. Renarde says:

            TS

            Fairplay. I’ll do me best.

            Zo, Mister Tudoor, you are, ahem ars believing youz iz a, ahem narcissist?

            Ja.

            [Tick]

            That’s probably how it went x

          2. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Ja.
            (Nutter) x

        2. Fiddleress says:

          Haha Renarde
          Wanna know the word for ‘cunt’?? Quite easy to pronounce too.
          Coz Google ‘translate’ doesn’t give the right answer, as I am always pleased to point out… (I’ve just checked, just to see.)

          1. Renarde says:

            Fiddleress

            I need to know!!! Tell me!!

          2. Fiddleress says:

            Renarde: ‘I am a cunt’ = ‘Je suis une salope’ or ‘je suis une pute’.

            If you look up the word ‘cunt’ on its own, Google translate will tell you it is “chatte”. Which is the word you’d use to say “my cunt” = ‘ma chatte’. But if you say ‘je suis une chatte’, you end up saying you are a female cat, haha. Makes no sense.

            Now, if you type ‘I am a cunt’, Google will give you ‘je suis un con’ – that is, the masculine version, which really means ‘I am a stupid bastard’. Interesting to see how ‘cunt’ does not say the same about men as it does about women! And it still doesn’t give you the right translation if you’re a woman.

            That was my rant against Google translate for today 😉

            By the way, a (French) ex-‘friend’ (narc) of mine told me that the inhabitants of Shropshire used to be called ‘Salops’, which sounds funny in a weird way to a French ear. He mocked me for not knowing this, because I’d lived in Shropshire for a year but never heard this. Can you (or anyone else) confirm? I’d be interested to know.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            My friends often wondered when I laughed when Shrewsbury Town issued a certain chant, they did not get it, I of course did as it is close enough to what you have explained, Fiddleress.

          4. Renarde says:

            Hg

            Nah. We need the chant because that’s just whizzed over my head.

          5. Renarde says:

            Belay that Hg. The magic penny has dropped.

            What a cunning linguist you are!

          6. Renarde says:

            Fiddleress

            I am nominating this for ‘Comment of the Year’. The sheer, astounding attention to detail, obvious research and clearly background knowledge gets an A Star from me.

            I will work this into conversation, probably this week and I will report back on its efficacy.

            I can confirm that ‘Salops’ is correct. You see, Proper Northerner as I am, I’ve never really ‘got’ the point of the Midlands.

            If you ask a Southerner where the North starts, they either say, north of the Watford Gap or Banbury.

            A Northerner would say as far away from Birmingham as possible. It’s a somewhat fuzzy boundary which does not and I repeat does not start in Shropshire. I’m not even that wild on Cheshire either. Bunch of wanky, middle class toss. I actually think that Cheshire might be the biggest spawners of MRNs saving the Home Counties.

            As for Southerners. Well to quote ‘Excalibur’, it’s easy to love folly in a child.

            Do not. I repeat do not get me started on the People’s Rebulic of Yorkshire.

          7. Fiddleress says:

            Renarde, I would blush if I ever did, with your very kind words. Thank you.

            It looks like I am beginning to rewrite history – or going senile, one or the other: I did not live in Shropshire, but in Cheshire, for a year, not too far from Manchester. Is that northern enough, Renarde? I liked Northerners when I lived in Britain. Always liked their direct style, like yours, Renarde.
            I must’ve spent about one day in Shropshire. Shrewsbury, actually!

          8. Renarde says:

            Fiddleress

            I may once have been to Shrewsbury to visit. Certainly driven through it often enough! Quite a strange place. Much like Ely in Cambridgeshire.

            You are very kind but a common Northern expression is, ‘Speak as you find’. That has conversely got me both out and into traps.

            Northerners are direct. No question. I utterly appreciate it can be unnerving.

            I’ll let you off with Cheshire. Its not the people or the countryside its the nouveau riches which are not local, the footballers and wives from Man U, Man C (!) and of course Da Pool and Everton that inhabit Alderley Edge. Or is it infect? Hmmm.

          9. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Welcome to Narcsite.
            For all your educational needs.

          10. Renarde says:

            Which includes spelling ‘Republic’ correctly…

          11. Liza says:

            If i may explain about the word cunt, the literal translation in french is actualy “con”.

            the word “con” is nowdays used as insult but its real meaning is just “cunt” it is the french word for femal intimate parts.

            the word “chatte” means female cat but it is used in the pop culture to designate a woman’s intimate part.

          12. Fiddleress says:

            Yes, absolutely correct. But no one uses “con” as meaning “cunt” anymore.
            So google still got it wrong since it translated the insult for men, only.

          13. Fiddleress says:

            At least, no one except in very small, closed intellectual circles uses “con” for female parts anymore.

          14. Renarde says:

            Liza

            Makes sense on ‘Chatte’ hence pussy.

            But me knowledge of French is sparse. Chat is cat, surely?

          15. Liza says:

            Fiddleress,

            when it is a single word, google translates literally and when it is a sentence or a paragraph it translates in a statistical manner, so sometimes going from a certain language’s grammar to another is not done in the best way and it dosen’t always take into account the argo and the metaphorical usage of somme words.

            it is just an assumption but i think that there is some sorte of censorship, in a sens that the algorithm privileges the selection of the least vulgar word.

          16. Fiddleress says:

            I think you are right about the statistics, Liza. It is inevitable that a machine should not (always, or often) get it right, as it doesn’t understand what it is translating.
            I struggle in my work with students who use google translate instead of a proper dictionary written by human beings. The result is their work invariably contains sometimes hilarious mistakes.

          17. NarcAngel says:

            Cunt is pretty universal and doesn’t cause much confusion. Let’s just go with that haha.

          18. Violetta says:

            Salope was used for a procuress or bawd in the 18th century. Basically, you were the madam of a whore-house, but you had probably been around the block too many times to peddle your own services.

          19. Violetta says:

            Renarde:

            Go ahead, get started on the People’s Republic of Yorkshire. I TRIPLE-DOG-DARE YOU.

            Bet you put yer Scotch on the rocks. Pbbbbbffft!

            😝

          20. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest Truthseeker6157,
            Hahaha
            How right you are, this is better than school 🤣
            As a curricular bonus, there was also a Queen ‘Kunti’ of India and her teachings
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

  6. JB says:

    Is it possible to be part one type and part another? I can see me in some of the saviour descriptions, but now I read this and a lot of this rings true too, especially the paragraph about the midranger’s devaluation behaviour towards the ‘magnet’.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes. Use the EDC.

      1. JB says:

        Ok, thanks for the info!

    2. blackcoffee30 says:

      Do the EDC! It’s surprising and was 100% on point for me.

      1. JB says:

        Thanks for the recommendation, blackcoffee30.

  7. Francis says:

    Welcome to the show. It’s all about ego. The narc is proud to be narc, and the empath is proud to be empath. It’s both a hoax.
    These are both inferiority-superiority complex behaviors.
    The narc is acting superior to overcompensate and hide their insecurity, trying to control scary situations with their fake leading behavior, leading other people on.
    The empathy of an “empath” is actually not empathy but false guilt disguised as empathy. It’s also insecurity, and they are trying to control scary situations with their fake following behavior, leading themselves on.

    I’ve actually seen both narc and empath behavior in the same person when in different social roles or in a different social “status”.
    A guy I used to know was in the role of empath at his workplace, getting bullied by the management. However, when he was at home, he was in the role of narc bullying his girlfriend.

    Inferiority-superiority complex are two sides of the same coin. When you know this, you can play the player, because the narc is like the wizard in the Wizard of Oz, just another insecure pretender hiding behind a curtain.

    Underneath te wolf wearing sheep clothing is actually a sheep. It’s a sheep pretending to be a wolf pretending to be a sheep, a shapeshifter. We can see through the pretense but it’s not up to us to fix anything. Just see through the game by observing, not absorbing. It’s all about common sense boundaries and confidence. And common sense boundaries with confidence are what gets us out of the unhealthy interactions.

    In order to get there, one has to give up one’s own ego. Having one’s own ego nailed to the cross. Good luck with that, ha ha.

    1. Truthseeker6157 says:

      Hello Francis, thank you for your post. I agree in part. The narcissist is proud to be a narcissist ( assuming that he realises he is one, most don’t) The Empath should be proud to be an empath but similarly many empaths don’t realise they belong to this group.

      The narcissist views himself as superior as this is a necessary part of the facade. The facade is designed to cage the creature ( your insecurity idea) but also to aid in the achievement of the Prime Aims, the most important of which is Fuel.

      The fact you have seen both narcissistic and empathic behaviour in the same individual is not a surprise. Some schools of narcissist can display exceptional cognitive empathy HG being a prime example. All narcissists (including HG ) do not possess emotional empathy. So a narcissistic individual could appear to be empathic in one situation through the use of cognitive empathy (If it serves the facade) but be narcissistic in private where the facade is not a concern.

      To the empath. The empath demonstrates both cognitive and emotional empathy. The emotional empathy is displayed at higher levels than the ‘normal’ group. However, the empath does not carry purely empathic traits. The empath is a mixture of BOTH empathic and narcissistic traits. These two sets of traits will vary in prominence dependent on school and cadre of empath. What we can always say though as regards the empath is that her empathic traits will always outweigh the narcissistic traits and as such the narcissistic traits are always held in check. People seem to assume an empath is all good, weak, a follower, that is inaccurate.

      So to your example. The empath could be empathic in a work or social environment but appear more narcissistic in private IF her emotional empathy is eroded due to being in a relationship with a narcissist.

      I am an empath. I have never viewed myself as inferior, ever. I do however recognise that I have an addiction to Narcissists. Narcissists have a similar addiction to empaths but only in so far that we are the best providers of fuel due to our stronger empathic traits. People in the ‘normal‘ range do not satisfy the Prime Aims in the same way, as such they are not prime targets.

      It is not down to inferiority superiority complexes. The dynamic is not so straightforward. If you want to know more, I suggest you read ‘The Super Empath’. This article concisely explains the spectrum Narcissist through to Empath. It will be a good starting point. ‘The empathic Supernova’ is useful for the same reason and illustrates the interplay of empathic and narcissistic traits in empaths who have the Super element in their school make up.

      In terms of the addiction I made reference to, you can find a full explanation in the Knowledge Vault under Their Addiction Package.’ This is necessary reading for anyone who seriously wants to understand the empath’s addiction to narcissists, why it is there, what it entails and most importantly, how to manage it.

      I hope this helps Francis.

    2. Renarde says:

      Francis

      It’s incredibly difficult to know where to begin with your post. So much is so very wrong.

      You are entitled to your own opinion of course. But to say in effect, ‘Empaths mimic Narcasssits and vice versa’ is fundamentally flawed.

      What I will say from your post is that it shows very little emotional empathy. Also the ’empathic man’ strikes me as a very typical MRN who shows the facade at work but not at home.

      1. MommyPino says:

        Renarde I was wondering about the same thing. The term that was used is bullying and I have a hard time believing an empath would bully the person closest to him because empathy was eroded. Bullying requires some type of premeditation so it is not exactly reactive. Just last week I asked a question at a NPD abuse survivor group on FB on who experienced having a bad temper after going through narcissistic abuse and I got over 800 likes and hundreds of comments of survivors who experienced struggling with bad temper and snapping easily after the narc abuse when they were actually really easy going before the narc abuse. But snapping is different from bullying.

        HG, would a regular bullying of a girlfriend be more indicative of narcissism?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          1. Bullying need not be premeditated, it will often be a instinctive response.
          2. If the bullying behaviour is repeated and habitual over a period of time, this demonstrates an absence of emotional empathy as opposed to a temporary, short term response as a consequence of the erosion of emotional empathy caused by an external stressotr.

        2. lickemtomorrow says:

          I’m so glad you brought up that issue in your FB group, MP. It’s one that maybe isn’t often touched on, which could be indicated by the number of likes and comments. Something we probably take back on ourselves and beat ourselves up about not realizing it’s a response to the trauma and impact of the abuse. That will lead to a short fuse at times and knee jerk reactions that even for us can come out of nowhere. I guess that can also be an aspect of PTSD, but there will be people out there who aren’t diagnosed for it and suffer in silence.

    3. FYC says:

      Francis, for a greater, and far more accurate understanding of what you are attempting to grasp, please do keep reading here. I think you have a confused an Ego with compensation. Ego does not equal egotism or compensation. Ego is not negative and would be unhealthy to “give up.” Ego is merely the recognition of self versus others in the world. It is the consciousness of who and what you are as a unique individual. It encompasses self-esteem and self-worth of your self perception. What you have described is not the effects of ego, but of that of compensation and negative coping mechanisms due to a lack of healthy ego. What you describe is more accurately defined as attack mechanisms, defense mechanisms, and/or behavioral mechanisms. These mechanisms are compensations for the lack of a healthy ego or can also be situational due to significant stress. All humans can and do practice coping strategies.

      As for pride, a degree of pride is healthy. It is the recognition of achieving ones goals in a healthy manner. This is not to be confused with haughty overcompensation or false pridefulness (e.g. thinking you are better than another because you do X or have X). By its very definition, genuine empathy to its greatest degree preempts haughty behavior. Empaths are human and make mistakes and can suffer reduction in empathy in certain situations, but generally, in healthy settings, do not act as you describe.

      Guilt is something all humans may feel (although not NPD/APD/Schizophrenics). Guilt is a feeling of recognition of doing something not in accordance with one’s values or ideals. Shame, on the other hand, is a sense that you are inherently not a good person. It is shame that can become toxic and cause significant emotional and psychological challenges (and the necessity for coping/defense/attack mechanisms). Healthy boundaries are useful in normal relationships, but as you will learn here, NPD/APD do not observe boundaries–healthy or otherwise–and therefore are not effective on these types of people.

      As is the case with all things in life, to have accurate information and understanding is critical to one’s knowledge and success. You may reject this information in keeping with your own needs, but you and those around you would benefit from your obtaining more accurate information.

      1. Truthseeker6157 says:

        FYC,

        I love your explanation of ego pride and guilt v shame. Thank you, I always learn something from readIng your thoughts. X

        1. FYC says:

          Thank you, TS, you are most kind. X

    4. lickemtomorrow says:

      I think TS has given and exceptional answer and explanation for the behaviours of both, and I agree with both her and Renarde in this instance.

      Most empaths do not recognize they are empaths, the same way HG explains that most narcissists don’t realize they are narcissists. They are acting on instinct in most instances and that’s how they become entangled.

      In terms of false guilt, the only guilt an empath experiences is likely to be generated by the narcissist, and it is false because the empath assumes the guilt the narcissist places on them by means of manipulation. At the same time, the guilt an empath feels is genuine as they have a conscience, feel remorse, and seek to right wrongs as part of their nature.

      For myself as an empath and co-dependent, having existed in a lack of control environment as a child, I can honestly say the survival instinct instigated in my circumstances was to ‘agree’ in order to ensure safety. If this is what you call ‘following’ I would have to disagree with your terminology, but agree that as a means to safety an empathic child will seek to ‘please’ others. This, from my perspective, is not something to be taken back by the empath/co-dependent in a manner to engender more of a sense of guilt or shame. This is a strength they have developed in a precarious situation and much the same could be said of the development of the narcissist. It is a survival strategy.

      And insecurity is something that exists in all of us. It is not something we should be ashamed of. And while it may cause people to feel inferior at times, or generate a need for superiority, the judgement you place around it, tbh, I find offensive. For someone to be so secure in themselves to comment in this manner suggests to me that Renarde is correct and you may be lacking a certain amount of insight in the circumstances.

      That being said, I hope Truthseeker’s comment will lead you to further reading here and understanding.

      LET.

      1. Truthseeker6157 says:

        LET,

        Hey x. Feels like ages since we spoke, HG’s projects and us both spending time on different threads, it’s nice to ‘hear’ your voice again.

        I have kind of started a new thought process. Dark Cupid started it off. I won’t therefore go into specific detail as to ‘the why’ here.

        I’m looking at my EDC, and picking it apart, or rather picking me apart. I’m looking at the various elements within my cadre and I’m trying to pull out the key advantages of each element. Similarly I’m looking to recognise and address the downsides of each part. A rebuild if you like. Pulling all the strengths together whilst minimising the impact of my weaknesses. Similarly, recognising the narcissistic traits and using them to my advantage more. Not to the detriment of anyone else of course, but recognising their purpose and embracing that.

        You mention guilt in your response to Francis. Do you think Codependents suffer more with guilt than most other negative emotions? Similarly, do you think that one of your key strengths born out of childhood / your codependency element is survival instinct?

        The thinking is that if we harness the strengths of our various cadre elements and limit the weaknesses by addressing / coming to terms with them, the result is that we are far far stronger moving forward. The narcissist uses his advantages. Why aren’t we maximising on ours?

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          Hey, TS x

          It has been a while and we can be on different wavelengths at different times so I guess that explains alot 🙂 I’ll often go where there is less input as where there is a great deal it seems a lot of what needs to be said has been said already and I couldn’t say it any better. That’s part of the beauty of this place.

          Dark Cupid is a challenging process which is why I prefer to take my time with that one.

          I think the EDC presents challenges of it’s own as well. I certainly felt a great deal of recognition after completing it and can see how it’s advantageous to study it a little more closely in the manner you are doing. So, bravo to you for making the most of the opportunity. It gives us a real insight and can definitely help us to ‘fine tune’.

          I’m not sure if suffering more guilt is an individual thing or an aspect of co-dependency. I think I have matured out of that to a certain extent. When I was younger I certainly felt responsible for everything (that burden had been laid on my shoulders or I took it upon myself as an empath) and this led to a crippling sense of guilt on occasion. In that sense I guess you could relate it to co-dependency. The ‘pleasing’ nature of the co-dependent will certainly create a lot of space for feelings of guilt and inadequacy.

          The survival instinct is a natural response, I think, to circumstances. So, in that sense, I would not call it a strength as much as a necessity. We all need to survive. We find different ways to do that. I would not view my co-dependency as a strength, but more as a strategy. Of course, that strategy builds strengths in other ways. For me it means that I’m more finely attuned to others and can read situations while understanding what may be required. This, to me, is a strength although it can have its downside as well. The fine tuning can leave you vulnerable to others moods and whims and impact you adversely as you try to negotiate situations for the best possible outcome. I think this is where I could relate to Empath007s suggestion of manipulation by the co-dependent. We seek to soothe often, and this will then take a toll on us. And this is where the need to dim the empathic traits comes in sometimes. If we are being taken for a ride, used and abused, we need to call that out in no uncertain terms once we recognize it. As HG suggests, many co-dependent empaths will go to the wall and see their own health decline in the circumstances. Those of us who have elements of the Superempath will likely be able to counter this decline in time to save ourselves.

          That’s what I would describe as maximizing our strengths and letting those elements shine.

          The most important thing is we gain some insight and use that to our advantage as you suggest. The only one that can help us is ourselves in that regard. So I’m glad to see you are making the effort to do just that, and I think just having the awareness is the biggest step in the right direction. More power to all us empaths in the circumstances, and with HGs help we’ll get there <3

          1. Truthseeker6157 says:

            LET,

            Yes, I can see what you mean by codependency being a strategy as opposed to a strength specifically. Assessment / reading of the situation so you can amend behaviour and anticipate response makes sense too. That could be used in a positive way as long as our own needs aren’t sacrificed in the process. More, our own needs could be suspended to achieve a desired outcome but can’t be suspended indefinitely. A bit like choose your battles I suppose.

            If you look at a Co dependent with a Super element, the Super side kicks in to prevent you hitting the wall as you say. So in that case, what if the Super element kicked in faster? How could you benefit from being able to access these elements sooner? We can’t use cadre traits that aren’t in our unique make up, but some cadre traits are sitting there largely dormant within us. If we were to harness all of the benefits of our respective cadre elements and safeguard against the downsides of the same elements, we have to come out far stronger.

            We tend to use our traits either with respect to other people, or in defence when under stress. We could be using them to greater advantage. To influence, to drive forward, to make positive change. Not just for others, but for ourselves too. We will never trample people like a narcissist will but similarly, we have our own key strengths and they are gifts. If a magnet can light up a room then she can influence change. If a co dependent is driven to please then she too can influence if she aligns with the right team socially or in work. HG describes himself as the doer not the done to. There are ways that we can do the same, just without damaging others in the process. It starts with fully understanding each element and using them all at will, not leaving them dormant until necessity comes calling.

            It seems to me that narcissists and narcissistic normals ride roughshod to take what they want. I think I might be done with being taken from. DC brought that home to me. Convince me that’s what I want, to take what you want. No thanks. How about I use what I have to decide for myself what I want then go get it. If that means I have to do some manipulating / influencing of my own to achieve that, then so be it.

        2. A Victor says:

          This is a very helpful comment, thank you!!

          1. Truthseeker6157 says:

            A Victor,

            You’re welcome and thank you too. My ideas on this are still part formed, a work in progress if you like. As our attention shifts away from the all consuming after affects of ensnarement, it opens up a little more mental space to look at how we can place ourselves in a stronger position going forward. Many of us didn’t really understand ourselves as empaths before arriving here. As that understanding also grows then I realise that we have real strengths. Some that others don’t have. There are ways that those strengths can be used to our benefit but also to the benefit of others.

            There are opportunities everywhere, here on the blog, at work, socially, in our communities. The world is a mess just now, people are losing their way. Of all the years I can recall, I can’t recall any like this where our empathic strengths are more called for. Ensnarement paralyses us, our worlds close in, become little more than the house we live in. As we heal, we need to step outside.

          2. A Victor says:

            Truthseeker6157

            Sometimes I don’t get a reply option on the comment I want to reply on, so I hope you get this.

            Your thoughts are very encouraging and also have prompted me to look into becoming stronger in my strengths as well. You are correct, we need to step outside, as we are able. It is scary and not necessarily quick but putting ourselves out there can likely help with the healing, if it’s done well and in the proper timing.

          3. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hi A Victor, yes I got your reply 🙂

            You’re right, timing is everything. At the start we are so confused by what has happened to us that all we can think about is trying to find a way out of it and deal with the aftermath effects. ET peaks and troughs but gradually over time, there are more logical days than emotional ones. Then all of a sudden we can stand back from it and reassess.

            As a group we have strengths that the majority just don’t carry. That has to be an advantage. Yes our empathic traits might have led us into ensnarement but, once we understand those traits then we can also exercise them and put them to work.

            I carry all of the narcissistic traits but will never be a narcissist. I think those traits can also be embraced, they can be seen as drivers, as defence, and as advantages if used in conjunction with my empathic traits. I’m never going to trample people to get what I want, it’s not in me. I might stop standing back though allowing others to take my spot. It’s that kind of idea I’m looking at.

            Having high levels of empathy is a gift. The world needs that just now. It’s right to project that empathy outwards but it’s also right to pursue what we want for ourselves at the same time. I have never put myself first, not really. I think maybe that needs to change.

      2. JB says:

        LET, I never thought of it like that before – that most empaths also don’t realise what they are, are just acting instinctively and that’s how they become entangled. Certainly food for thought!

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          It is indeed food for thought, JB, and while I many have understood myself to be empathic, I was not aware of the notion of being an empath and how that plays out in relation to the narcissist. Having been given that awareness, the puzzle pieces of my life are now beginning to fit together. It makes sense, and I know better who I am which is something I had been able to access before. And not only do I know that, I’m being given the means to utilize that knowledge, too. All leading to the idea of becoming a ‘weaponized’ empath 🙂

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            Oops! That should say ‘unable to access’ … or, had not been able to access … in terms of who I am. I need a coffee to wake up those sleepy brain cells 😉

      3. MommyPino says:

        “ In terms of false guilt, the only guilt an empath experiences is likely to be generated by the narcissist, and it is false because the empath assumes the guilt the narcissist places on them by means of manipulation. At the same time, the guilt an empath feels is genuine as they have a conscience, feel remorse, and seek to right wrongs as part of their nature.”

        LET, I couldn’t agree more with what you said. I think it’s misguided to think that empaths walk around in their daily lives with false guilt and that it is the basis of the things that we do. Empaths do good things because the actions in itself makes them happy especially if they are able to bring something positive to others. It has nothing to do with any kind of guilt. Although the guilt can indeed be generated, not just by narcissists actually but sometimes by non narcissists too, but it is not the default mindset or motivation.

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          Thanks, MP, appreciate your comment as always. I agree with you that It is misguided to think we empaths walk around feeling guilty all the time and that guilt is the thing that motivates us. We certainly can be made to feel guilty and act out of obligation, but it is not the main motivator for our actions as you have said. Most of the time empaths are acting on genuine motives of concern and compassion, love and caring, hope and inspiration. Guilt has nothing to do with it. Any manipulative person can attempt to make us feel guilty, not just narcs. The narcs are just the best at their manipulations because it’s the gold standard for them.

          False guilt we assume, or take on, as part of a manipulation. Genuine guilt we experience because we know we have done something wrong and our own conscience is alerting us.

          At least that’s my take on it. And glad you gave your take, too, MP. It all helps to clarify <3

        2. Whitney says:

          I completely agree! very interesting what you both wrote.

          The MMR-B makes me feel endlessly guilty and responsible for her mistakes in life.

          Apart from that, my only guilt is when I hurt someone by accident. This almost never happens and I forgive myself anyway because I know my intentions are good.

    5. Renarde says:

      Francis, TS

      TS, I am always impressed by your well thought out and articulate responses. Pleasure to read.

      Francis, bit of learning here. Hopefully, you have read both mine and TS comments. We are both Empaths and yet we have responded in two, different ways. See?

      Empathy can be temporarily eroded. Another empath today (not on here) has severely eroded my saviour strand and I’m not a happy camper today.

      1. Truthseeker6157 says:

        Renarde,

        Thank you, and, don’t let anyone grind you down girl ! X

        1. Renarde says:

          Thank you! Still have my worries but I’m getting there! X

    6. mommypino says:

      Francis,

      I don’t think you understand empathy very well if you believe that it is just coming from guilt of any kind.

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