The Karen



229 thoughts on “The Karen

  1. Asp Emp says:

    Why are people ‘slating’ James Bond films? Ian Flemming wrote some bloody good books and they were more realistic than any Mills & Boons s**t. I’ll bet some of you (secretly) watch the James Bond films! Some of you have admitted that some of the old films made in the old days are better than the ones made today. However, you never see a “shit” James Bond film made – unless it was with Timothy Dalton – what a fkg wet blanket! Roger Moore? Nah, he was No Saint either but a crap ‘Bond’. FFS.

    Come on, ladies.

    Why are you still talking about ‘films’?

    You’re forgetting your real reason for being here………

  2. WokeAF says:


    And I was stoked I called the school and sub school – you’ve taught us well

    Shared it everywhere.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you for sharing it.

  3. Violetta says:

    Oh dear lord, THIS is where Karens get their motivational wall-hangings:

    When the Red, Red Robin Comes Bob-Bob Bobbin’ Along
    When the red, red robin comes bob, bob, bobbin’ along, along
    There’ll be no more sobbin’ when he starts throbbin’ his old sweet song
    Wake up, wake up you sleepy head
    Get up, get out of your bed
    Cheer up, cheer up the sun is red
    Live, love, laugh and be happy
    What if I were blue,
    Now I’m walking through,
    Walking through the fields of flowers
    Rain may glisten but still I listen for hours and hours
    I’m just a kid again doing what I did again, singing a song
    When the red, red robin comes bob, bob, bobbin’ along
    When the red, red robin comes bob, bob, bobbin’
    When the red, red robin comes bob, bob, bobbin’ along
    There’ll be no more sobbin’ when he starts throbbin’
    There’ll be no more sobbin’ when he starts a throbbin’ his old sweet song
    Wake up, wake up you sleepy head
    Why don’t you get up, get up, get out of bed, cheer up
    Live, love, laugh and be happy
    What if I were blue, now I’m walking through fields of flowers
    Rain may glisten but still I listen for hours and hours
    I’m just a kid again, doing what I did again, singing a song
    When the red, red robin comes bob, bob, bobbin’
    When the red, red robin comes bob, bob, bobbin’ along
    Along, along, along, along, along

  4. K says:

    A woman, with a blond Bob hair cut, made this comment on my neighborhood post, which has a link to the YouTube video: The Empathic Supernova.

    “The post doesnt belong here and it has been tagged for removal. I am a Community Reviewer for NextDoor and it does not follow our rules.”

    Hmmmm….I suspect she is a LMRN.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I suspect you are correct.

  5. Sweetest Perfection says:

    BC30, I agree with you on that. I would never use any labeling of identity if a person explicitly tells me they don’t feel comfortable or represented by it. Latinx was created to include more than to exclude but I agree there are many arguments against it, and I myself was not totally sold on its use for many reasons, including linguistic ones. Insisting on using something against a person’s preference is definitely a sign of entitlement and lack of boundary recognition.

    1. BC30 says:

      To be clear, I was not calling you out, which is why I did not refer to you. However, what I am finding in *my* recent personal experience is that it is the N who takes issue with not using the word.

      I didn’t realize it at the time but I had arguments with #1 and #2 and self-identification. They (cishet men) felt they were far better suited to identify someone else’s sex/gender/etc. that the individual and would not respect and utilize the respected pronouns. I was flabbergasted, and ultimately let it go. There was no convincing them to respect another person.

      I also saw your other comment first and asked you to explain why you think Latino is not an ethnicity, and I am sure you know Hispanic and Latino are completely different and not interchangeable. I am not saying that I agree or disagree, but I am curious about the basis of your opinion, as I have found many of your comments and observations here to be interesting and often aligned with my opinions.

      I also did a lot of self-reflection on my identity and “Latinx.” I ultimately decided not to utilize it unless the individual requests it be used or it is relevant to a scholarly discussion.

      1. Violetta says:

        You can be both Latino and Hispanic, as well as one and not the other, but as my Cuban-on-both-sides friend says, “We are neither. We are CUBAN.”

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          Violetta, not always. Sometimes you cannot call yourself Latino but still be Hispanic.

        2. BC30 says:

          I do not want to misunderstand. I am correct or incorrect in thinking that you are trying to inform me in some fashion regarding these labels? I am both. I live both.

        3. Sweetest Perfection says:

          Oh Violetta I didn’t read your comment correctly sorry. Yes you’re right. I have trouble focusing my eyes because the constant screen interaction is killing me. And then when I’m not working I’m hooked on KTN! In fact I was in a zoom meeting thinking: “I need to reply to BC30 I need to reply to BC30…”

          1. Violetta says:


            iNo es nada!

          2. Sweetest Perfection says:


        4. BC30 says:

          Ooooh my, my…. I have some thought on the U.S. Cuban Adjustment Act.

      2. Sweetest Perfection says:

        Hi BC30, no worries, I didn’t think you were calling me a narcissist and I’ll be very happy to explain my observation about ethnicity, thanks for finding my comments interesting. This is a topic that I love to discuss but of course we are in a forum on narcissism so I’ll try to be as brief and clear as possible. First of all, of course I know Latino is not the same as Hispanic, though the two terms are interchangeable in only one direction but not the other. Let me explain: a person that identifies as Latinx/Latino can also, if so willing, identify as Hispanic. But a person that identifies as Hispanic is not necessarily a Latino too. A person originally from Spain is Hispanic, but wouldn’t be considered Latino, at least in the USA, because there’s a tendency to link that term to Latin America. I say this because in Europe, many Mediterranean cultures are called Latino due to the linguistic connection with Latin (Spanish, Italian, French…). But that’s a different topic and would only serve to make things more confusing with regards to our conversation. There’s a common misconception in the US that Hispanics and Latinos are one single ethnicity, defining ethnicity as a common identity formed from the same cultural traditions and national origins. And that is simply erroneous. The Latino/Hispanic community has multinational origins, and therefore, is multicultural and even in some cases multilingual (“Latino” does not only involve people who are related by family to the Spanish language but also in other cases to Portuguese). Leaving aside the discussion on race -I’m not getting into that because HG would kick me out- the Hispanic and Latino community also is a multiracial one. The misconception of Hispanic/Latino as a compact, homogeneous ethnic group is as delusional as the one for “Asian.” Imagine sustaining that people from India, Laos, Japan, China, Thailand, Korea etc etc are the same ethnicity!! I found your comment about the degrees of separation very funny. Let’s say HG is our Kevin Bacon.

        1. BC30 says:

          I am 95% in agreement with you. You didn’t even mention South Asian. LOL You may have seen in my reply to Violetta that I am both. So, with regard to the use of “Latinx” I was saying that I reject it for myself and only use it when individuals ask me to do so, as I default to Latino/a. I am fluent and literate in Spanish and English, not that is a “requirement” to be considered Hispanic (IMO). Let’s not open the conversation to race because ooooohhh almighty, then we’d have to get into colorism, and there’s already been much conversation about colonialism and politics. On KTN, I keep my opinions regarding these topics to myself, for the most part, but I do have a doctorate relevant to this topic that I utilize for my job. We know almost nothing about one another, so I do like learning about other readers’ opinions and world views. IMHO I think HG indulges us to discuss other topics. I also think that Kevin Bacon is on one of HG’s N or E identification lists that are for purchase, so that’s how I’ll tie this conversation into narcissism. Haha!

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Haha I honestly feel more attracted to the lists of E than to the N. It makes me feel good to see successful and admirable empaths. On our digressions from the main topic of discussion, I believe HG is very smart, of course, and he knows what he’s doing. But yes, let’s not get into colorism, lest we are removed these bits of indulgence! I am glad there’s a 5% you disagree with me on, that way we could have an engaging discussion in RL that a totally identical view wouldn’t allow for. I am fluent and literate in a few languages but I have never mentioned here my origin or my native language, mainly because I don’t want to give many clues about who I am in case anyone related to my narc could identify me. I’m sure I’m not his first and only IPSS to get lucky and find out about HG’s work. Let’s just say I’m sure you and I would have a lot to talk about in RL.

          2. BC30 says:

            I worried too, but I don’t think the IPPS/IPSSs know enough and the N’s don’t care enough about me and moved to Germany and South Carolina anyhow. I was SO HAPPY that shortly after I guessed that he was an E, it was revealed (openly here on KTN, so no spoilers) that Keanu Reeves is an E. He’s super dreamy, and I’m love. I must also say if I have “type” it’s him.

          3. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Oh, Keanu. I am in love with him since Point Break. My narc was still hoovering until HG convinced me to change my phone number. 2 1/2 years post-escape. Covid is a hoovering causative.

        2. Violetta says:

          When I was teaching college Composition, I had a student who did a presentation about being mixed-race in the US. During Q&A, he said, “I’m part-black, part-white, part-Cherokee, and part-Mexican, so what does that make me?”

          I said, “Um, a Typical American?”

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Hahaha great answer, Violetta. Homi Bhabha would approve.

          2. A Victor says:

            Thank you Violetta! This is the perfect response!

    2. BC30 says:

      Ok, one more thing, because we’ll soon be too far afield from narcissism. I suspect a high likelihood that there is but one degree of separation between us IRL. Since we will never know, let’s settle for 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon.

  6. BC30 says:

    The narcissist is the person who insists on using the term “Latinx” after the person of said ethnicity/heritage/culture has asked them not to use it.

    1. Sweetest Perfection says:

      I hope you know Latino/Hispanic is NOT an ethnicity.

      1. BC30 says:

        Please explain why you say this.

  7. WiserNow says:

    While I’m here… there’s something that bothers me about this whole “Karen” stereotype that has sprung up in recent times.

    I listened to HG’s audio about ‘The Karen’ with interest and I even laughed at the humour of it. I recognise the type and I too think this ‘type’ of person can be a narcissist.

    The thing that bothers me is that many are so quick to jump on bandwagons and their minds automatically go to a ‘label’. For example, if you are genuinely unhappy with the customer service at a shop or restaurant or whatever, and you ask to speak to the manager because you think the service is subpar or unreasonable, does that mean you are automatically a “karen”. If your child is bullied by a group of other kids and you demand to speak to the parents of the other kids, does that automatically make you a “karen”. And so on.

    There could be valid reasons why someone wants to speak to a manager. Not all blonde inverted bob haircuts are automatically “karen” hairstyles. Not all complaints are narcissistically motivated.

    By using this stereotype, it makes it easier for others to behave like narcissists who are intolerant and incapable of being empathic about individual people and individual circumstances.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hence why it’s important to use the correct term of narcissist. I did state in the video that where the label is correctly applied then ‘a Karen’ is actually a narcissist. Asking for the manager doesn’t make you a narcissist, it is if it’s part of a range of behaviours.

      1. WiserNow says:

        I understand that HG, and I’m not saying that you would use the term as a stereotype or blanket statement. I know that you in particular have the ability to tell the difference.

        My comment was about the average person in society who doesn’t see the difference between a valid complaint by a non-Karen and a “Karen complaint”, but jumps to the conclusion that they are all “Karen complaints”.

        It comes down to being able and willing to tell the difference. Say you’re the one with the valid complaint and you’re being smeared or ignored, for example, “oh, stop being such a Karen” or “don’t mind her, she’s just being a Karen”… it’s going to be difficult to prove that you’re not actually a “Karen”.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes, that is a valid observation. There will not be a 100% success (chiefly because there will be individuals who are narcissists who will accuse someone of being a Karen when they are not a Karen) but with regard to empaths and normals, the more that they are educated as to what a Karen really is and the differences in behaviour, the less likely it is that the normals and empaths will misuse the label.

          1. WiserNow says:

            I agree HG. Awareness and education are very important. The more that a person knows about narcissism, the more they will be able to notice the difference.

    2. Liza says:


      normaly if someone is genuinly unhappy with a product they will see what is the protocole for making a claim and do so, normally they start getting upset if they try doing things in the right way and find themselves faced with gaslighting and impolite behaviour, they won’t be enraged right from the start, they won’t shout at the person who works in reception for exemple because they know that they are not responsible, they wouldn’t make a scene in a restaurent and be mean to a waiter, if the service was really horrible they never come back or if they really do want to express it they do it politelly just once and leave.

      A karen wouldn’t do all those things, she will make a scene right from the start and wouldn’t care about how the other person feels or if they are really responsible for her dissatisfaction, she just has a verry biased idea of what she is entitled to, and when faced with the reality she can’t accept it, in short karen suffers from the main character syndrom, she tends to think that the universe is designed to seve her, at least that is the impression i get from the karens i know.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Well stated.

        1. Liza says:

          thank you ^^

      2. WiserNow says:


        Thank you for your reply. From what you say, the main differences in behaviour between a non-Karen and a Karen are: foresight, consideration, patience, politeness, emotional regulation and lack of drama. A non-Karen will (hopefully) have the empathy and also logic and self-control to behave in that way. In tense situations, or when there are two sides to the story, staying calm and logical for a sustained time can be difficult.

        Also, if the non-Karen is accused of being a Karen, the non-Karen will need to stand her/his ground and continue in a calm and logical way to show that the accusation is false.

        It makes me think that, in a more general sense, over time a narcissist deliberately tries to erode and diminish the things that make non-narcs different from narcs, that is, emotional regulation, logic, calmness and clear thinking.

        Awareness is very important, both self-awareness as well as awareness of the situation.

        1. Violetta says:

          Here’s something else: if a non-Karen gets testy, he/she might even apologize when calmer.

        2. Liza says:

          “Awareness is very important, both self-awareness as well as awareness of the situation.” i totally agree WiserNow, you have to know what you are looking for to find it.

          From a non narcissist’s perspective, a karen’s behaviour will stand out as odd, they would think that they themeselves would’t behave in such a way, but rather than recognise it as a narcissst’s ignited fury and an attempt to assert control, they would rather think that this person has anger managment issues or they are verry assertive, they don’y know how to let go ext …

  8. Whitney says:

    HG, my God. I wish we could all go to dinner and have a party together.

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. Violetta says:

        Pass the mead.

  9. Anm says:

    I am not saying that politics is clean. But what you just mentioned about election corruption isn’t fraud. 1. You mentioned you saw a video about a republican poll watcher not allowed inside a building while Democrat poll watcher was in there. They do rotate, but there are so many people supervising the counts. In Arizona, Law Enforcement is even involved.
    2. You mentioned that there were ballots in the trash. We had a ton of ballots tossed in the trash, not by us, but by voters. People were filling out early mail in ballots, not mailing them, or changing their minds, so they often would toss those ballets in the trash , and we would just have them fill out a provisional one. Yes, someone is going to freak out when they see ballots in the trash, but it was just trash. The provisional ones also had to be put in separate bins. Again people are going to freak out that their ballots didn’t go in the same bin as the regular ballots. There is a reason for this. After the regular ballots are counted for, then they move on to the early voting mail in ballots, THEN they have to count the provisional ones. This is what takes the longest. Each provisional ballot has to be double checked to make sure it’s ligit. There was a ton of provisional ballots and mail in ones this year, and statistically they are on average democratic votes. Republican voters are more likely to vote in person than Democrats as well, those ballots were counted first. That is why there is the appearance of trump winning strong at the beginning, and more and more democratic ballots added at the end.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      A voice of reason.

    2. Chihuahuamum says:

      Totally agree anm!

    3. MommyPino says:


      You have to watch the video because what you said is not what I saw. I actually forwarded it to a friend who is not a Trump supporter and she asked her friend who is a poll watcher and her friend did say that there has to be both Democrats and Republicans together watching inside. The video showed Republicans asking to be allowed inside to watch the counting and they said that there were only Democrats there. So what you explained is not what was in the video. Yoj made incorrect assumptions. You have to see it. It is in David Harris Jr.’s IG. There was no rotation because there were no Republicans/ or very few inside. Now if the people in the video were lying then I will be ok with it. The guy in charge though was standing there in the video and didn’t deny that there were only Democrats poll watchers inside. All that he said is he cannot let them in because of Covid Capacity Rules which he refused to explain when he was asked what the rule says. He just repeatedly said, “No Comment.”My only hope is that there will be an investigation instead of just dismissing it. That is not unreasonable to ask. Al Gore asked for a recount. The Democrats made false accusations about the Russian collusion and they spent four years dragging that false accusation and their lies have been documented because it is in the transcripts of the closed door hearings that the very same people who went on TV and said they have strong evidence said the opposite when they were under oath in the hearings when the public wasn’t watching them. An investigation and explanation would be nice and would actually show that everyone’s votes were respected. There was an investigation on the Russian collusion that was afforded to the Democrats, I hope that the Democrats would return the favor of at lease acknowledging the issues instead of dismissing it without even looking at them.

      I have more to add about your other points later tonight hopefully.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        To save you time, do not bother doing so, MP. Trump has responded in a predictable manner demonstrating his Upper Lesser Type B behaviour to perfection. I have enough to do without wading through allegation and counter allegation about apparent cheating, conspiracy theories and so forth. This is a blog about narcissism, I have allowed some leeway with regard to comment about the election but unless it appertains to narcissism, any further to and fro on this matter which is political will not be posted.

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          HG, I am afraid I was the one who instigated the political conversation this time and it’s my fault. I got carried away by the elections, social justice blah blah blah. Won’t happen again.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            It is not something you habitually do SP and it was linked to narcissism, hence I allowed it. You were also articulating a viewpoint which had not been articulated previously.

        2. MommyPino says:

          It’s not a big deal HG. But I just had to respond because what ANM has said was not accurate and I believe you said that you allow that to your commenters. I know you have shown you agree with her but it doesn’t make what she said accurate. And I had to respond because she said that Trump followers do not educate themselves regarding the elections. It was a strong and mean comment directed to a group that includes me. I would hope that you don’t think that I am an ignorant person gullible and not willing to educate myself just because of my political leanings because I that would be really disheartening because I think highly of learning from you. This could be my last straw before you get really mean to me but if I can’t be honest then why would I even stay here.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            I am never mean to you. Here is an example of being mean to you

            “MP, shut the fuck up about Trump, good God will you give it a fucking rest droning on about him.” See, that is a little dose of me being mean. I did not do this, not have I ever done this.

            You commented about Trump. ANM responded to your comment. You brought the matter up, therefore ANM responded and I allowed you a reply to that response. I have you room to comment not once, but twice. That is eminently fair.

            Yes, you did not articulate everything that you wished to state but I will remind you that is a blog about narcissism, it is not a political platform, hence I explained you should not expand further. Understand (and I have explained this many times before and it is in the rules) if you articulate an opinion, you can expect others to disagree.

            It is not about seeing you as ignorant or gullible, it is avoiding drifting too far into a political discussion and you must acknowledge, you have repeated form in that regard. It is not about honesty, it is about avoiding the repeated platform of making it political and not about narcissism, in the same way I clamp down on off topic discussions about baking or scented candles or such like. I give you all considerable leeway in discussions but this is my blog, my rules and I am the one who has to undertake all of the moderation.

          2. MommyPino says:

            HG, this will be my last comment here. Just for the sake of accuracy, it wasn’t me who brought up Trump, it was ANM. You can review the thread if you want to. SP and I were having a conversation about the link of racism and narcissism. ANM responded to SP about the movie and was the first person who brought up Trump and Trump supporters with a post that had nothing to do with narcissism. Not that it is a big deal but just to be a little bit more fair to me I thought I should speak for myself and correct that.

            Quoting ANM, “ Then all the conspiracy theories that the Trump Administration and Trump’s followers started about how and why the elections are rigged, was beyond impossible and embarrassingly stupid. Yet, no one really bothers to even educate themselves with the basic education of how elections work, so they fall for the hype and spread the stupidity.”

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Moomypino, you may not have brought Trump up but the point remains that if Trump is mentioned, you start a defence of him and often for reasons unrelated to narcissism and it has happened repeatedly. I have just looked through 1660 posts which relate to Trump on the blog and guess whose name appears most often? I politely stated that you should not continue to mention him/the election where unrelated to narcissism, I allowed you to respond to ANM and you suggested I was being mean. I have explained I was not, I explained that you have been allowed to venture into politics, rather than narcissism, on many occasions and that I am the one who has to moderate this off topic material, which is often lengthy. Just because someone criticises Trump and you are a Trump supporter, MP you do not have to leap to his defence every time or take to heart a criticism made about Trump supporters. I know you feel compelled to always set the record straight, but you do not need to. You are always welcome to express your views and opinion but please do not labour the point re politics/Trump/elections etc.

          4. WiserNow says:

            Hi MommyPino,

            I have read this thread about Trump and it ‘inspired’ me to add my two cents. While I’m not a fan of Trump and I think he is not presidential material at all, I also think there are valid reasons for his popularity. These reasons are not simply because his supporters are stupid or ignorant or uneducated. He received a large percentage of the vote, so that in itself is worthy of further analysis.

            Trump is a raving narcissist, and maybe it took a raving narcissist to shake things up in America. While the US is described as a ‘democracy’, how genuinely democratic is it? There is great wealth inequality, the health and education systems are far from ‘democratic’, there are deep divisions regarding class, race and gender, and the pro-gun lobby have a stranglehold on the government despite the calls of many against guns. So, even before Trump entered politics, how genuinely ‘democratic’ was the US, for a nation that’s held up as a world standard regarding its democratic institutions?

            Maybe Trump’s base voted for him not simply because he ‘brainwashed’ them, but because his base felt that *their* ‘democratic’ rights were being heard and protected for a change. In this way, Trump was a typical narcissist. He honed in on his victim’s needs (or wounds) and told them exactly what they wanted to hear when they normally felt unheard and unseen.

            Generalisations aren’t very helpful when it comes to progress. A narcissist will create an “us and them” or “black and white” kind of scenario. Now, as an American voter, you are either for or against either side. However, there are valid reasons for the popularity of both. The nuance is more important for progress than the broad-brush polarity that requires forcefulness to make either side back down.

            Just my two cents. So, MommyPino, please don’t feel like you can’t speak honestly. Any discussion that is ‘constructive’ should be willing to consider ‘nuance’ as well as generalisations.

          5. Julie Petkovska says:

            Hi MP,

            The reason why you may feel that you need to defend Trump, is because the left is so intolerant of tolerance. There is a huge issue globally. I am centrist leaning left. Whilst Trump isn’t my cup of tea, sometimes people like him are necessary for the population to decide the vision and future of the country and its people.

            Lets look at an empathic leader Jacinda Arden, what many people don’t know is New Zealand is very expensive, many (by the thousands) New Zealanders migrate to Australia as the pay is better and we have more jobs. If New Zealand was utopia no one would leave.

            Conservatives as a whole and the left as whole, need to work together. Just because you support Trump doesn’t mean you personally are responsible for his actions.

            I think we need to take a step back and focus on policies that benefit all people, rather than which narcissist is better or worse..

            We need narcissists on the left and right. One could argue we Have an empathic leader in Victoria, but we were in the longest lockdown in the world.
            Some saw him as a dictator, confining us to our homes, ruining the economy and others saw him as someone who is more concerned about the health and well being of its people. We need both sides to argue. Not one over another. So we can determine where the Line Should not be crossed.

          6. MommyPino says:

            Julie P,

            You’re comment is very logical and well measured. Hopefully people could have that mindset. The bashing of Trump supporters is obviously not coming from a logical or reasonable mindset. It is counterproductive and we can’t be embarrassed because of other people’s opinions.

            Narcissists rile up both their bases and a lot of Empaths and Normals get caught up with the manipulation. I just refuse to get manipulated by politicians and media narcissists into thinking that people I disagree with are stupid or racist or evil.

            Thank you for your substantive and thoughtful comment.

          7. Sweetest Perfection says:

            MP, I don’t think you are ignorant and I understand your feeling offended when some people insult Republican voters saying they are stupid or ignorant. Human stupidity doesn’t discriminate any political parties. I believe you and I are like the yin and the yang, our lives are completely opposite and however, we do get along and respect each other. While I don’t agree with your political ideas, I understand (partially) why a section of the country shares your opinion at the same time that I understand why the other section finds that unfathomable. Generalizations, however, are hurtful. Respect is the answer, like the one you and I have always shown for each other when we chat, which I’m confident will remain the same. Meanwhile, if I need to be embarrassed about someone, I’m embarrassed for my neighbor who never cleans after his dog and I don’t care what political views he has, he’s gonna hear me. I’m sure he’s a Lesser…

          8. lickemtomorrow says:

            In response to Julie Petkovska:

            What’s interesting about ‘Dictator Dan’ in the current situation of Victorian politics is that it was his own government that caused the bauze up and forced the State into lockdown. Victorian still can’t get a straight answer about how that happened. But he continued with his draconian measures in order to right his wrongs and the ultimate effects I’m sure will be immeasurable. And not only that, he has applied double standards across the board which has some people riled up as well.

            People are questioning the legitimacy of some of the decisions being made during the current crisis and are right to do so. How this crisis is being handled across the world will speak volumes going into the future.

        3. Leea says:


          Truthfully, I’m glad Americans did not chose Trump. However, I know that you have identified them both as narcissists. Which of them is more dangerous? I’ve found the more “covert” (if there is such a thing) the more dangerous. Please indulge me. Thanks!

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Define dangerous.

          2. Leea says:

            Yes, dangerous..not in the traditional sense. Dangerous in the sense of a) more divisive b) ability to control thought (cult leader), c) able to create more cognitive dissonance.

          3. Another Cat says:

            Mommypino, Sweet P

            In another thread we are talking about how empathy can be encouraged in kids. Maybe I just did something yesterday, idk. My kids asked me why some ppl over in the USA voted for Trump. When very few in our country seem to care for him.

            And I explained as best as I could. He has probably supported the industries in which these ppl work. They want to support their families, children, and are not supercertain they can maintain these financial conditions with Biden.

            My kids started thinking.

            I didn’t want them to think some ppl are just stupid because that is not true. The kids had already heard about my views on the environmental pollution many of those industries cause. About the Wall to Mexico, about Segregation and Black Lives Matter.

            To offer the kids that there are other perspectives than mine, felt important.

          4. Getting There says:

            Another Cat,
            That’s great that you are showing your children how to listen to others before judging! I wish that was taught more. True empathy!

            I have spoken to many Trump fans and here are some reasons: jobs are big; he isn’t trying to change the American system into one that has failed in multiple countries in the past; he didn’t push down things to appease lobbies it was about him and the people; and what he has done overseas. That last part is about China, N. Korea, and the Middle East. To make this narcissist connected, his narcissism has him unpredictable. He didn’t allow China’s threats stop him from not using a system China pushed that caused concern for the government. Further, he isn’t like MRs and Greaters who will say “stop it, I said stop it.” And then there is no back up. Or at least that is the impression Trump gives in that he will back up. An agreement in the Middle East was made that is supposed to have positive impact. There are other reasons that were shared; basically no one person is so simple that they can fit into categories made by others.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            “he isn’t trying to change the American system into one that has failed in multiple countries in the past;” – what does this mean?

          6. Getting There says:

            The term that has been used in their sharing is “socialism.”

          7. HG Tudor says:

            I suspected as much. What has been proposed in the United States and labelled as socialism, is not even close to socialism, it is clear that many people do not actually understand what socialism is. They also repeatedly fail to understand that social democracy (which provides outcomes which are regularly listed as top and high ranking indices for the inhabitants of those states with regard to standard of living, lack of corruption, healthcare, transparency of government etc) is not socialism but they regularly label it as such when it is not. Bernie Sanders is regarded as “to the left” in the United States and labelled a socialist, he is nowhere near a socialist. There is a lot of fear mongering that is occasioned by labelling certain ideas as socialism (when they are not) and suggesting that they have failed in other countries.

          8. Sweetest Perfection says:


          9. K says:

            I wanted Bernie Sanders to be the President…alas, it was not meant to be.

          10. HG Tudor says:

            Vote Tudor for a New New World Order!

          11. Sweetest Perfection says:

            The Tudor dynasty comes back. I can’t wait to read your political platform: 1) Obtaining Fuel 2) Securing Matrix 3) Upgrading Dungeon … I’m kidding of course, I have no doubt you would be a just and dignified president.

          12. Getting There says:

            HG, if you start a blog on politics, please let me know. I would love to read the different thoughts and comments on this and other matters.

          13. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you, although I doubt I will have time and besides my role as eminence grise tends to cast a different light on it all.

          14. Violetta says:


            So is Kamala Harris really a Marxist, or is that another label tossed around by people who don’t know the real thing?

          15. HG Tudor says:

            No, she is not.

          16. Violetta says:


            Screw voting. HG for KING.

          17. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you Violetta, I am already incumbent in that regard.

          18. Truthseeker6157 says:

            “Vote Tudor for a New New World Order!”

            Will there be free cake for all?

          19. HG Tudor says:

            Naturally because it is me, one can have one´s cake and eat it.

          20. K says:

            hahahahahahaha… you’re wicked smaaahht (smart) so you have my vote!

          21. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Is the right answer!

          22. BC30 says:

            Me too, K. Me too. #foreverBernie

            Only Empathy Cake here.

            Our BELOVED Tudor as King? Something to ponder– one can’t be White forever. I’ve no desire to be in the Black crosshairs of the ULTRA!

          23. Sweetest Perfection says:

            BC30: BERNIE ❤️

          24. K says:


        4. MommyPino says:

          I would like to retract what I said about ANM being mean. It was at the height of my emotion and I felt like I was the one being blamed. ANM was just trying to explain and I was just trying to explain too.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            You just did so, MP.

      2. Bibi says:


        You write a lot of words. But Trump lost. ‘Investigation’? What are you even talking about.

        He never should have been elected. This what happens when you put a game show host in charge. Yap yap fraud this fraud that. Trump is a very sick individual and those who support him are gullible AF. I have zero intellectual respect for them.

        Biden ain’t great but he is sure as hell fuck better than that piece of orange office ass. Fuck that guy.

        Adios, dipshit! 2021 here we come.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Trump is a narcissist, like Biden. I do not think gullible is the correct description for his supporters, they see him as representative of their needs and views and a counterpoint to technocratic, political dynasties. Whether you regard their faith in him as good or bad is a different matter.

          Trump was largely elected on his strength – namely he was an unconventional political outsider who would very directly say the hitherto unsayable. Subject to any different outcome following legal challenges, Trump largely lost the election on his weakness – namely he was an unconventional political outsider who would very directly say the hitherto unsayable. This was a direct result of the type of narcissist that he is, an uncompromising Upper Lesser Type B who boasts, brags and bullies. That style appeals to many but then also alienates many.

          1. Bibi says:

            HG, I agree that Trump was the rebellion against a lot of the PC rhetoric and I do think future politicians will try to emulate his bravado. The reason I believe his followers are gullible is because they worship this guy and they can’t see that he does not give a shit about them or anyone but himself.

            There was one woman on the news who admitted that she didn’t wear masks because Trump didn’t and she indicated that had he stressed the importance of wearing it she would have done so. His followers will listen to him over the CDC. He says what he wants and they believe him.

            It’s like the Spiderman motto: with great power comes great responsibility. I agree he was elected b/c of his strength but also ‘let’s cut through the bullshit’ routine. There are ways to go about it, however, that doesn’t lead to such divisiveness and antagonism.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Well that makes any supporter of a narcissist politician gullible because no narcissist politician cares about his or her electorate, of course some at least create the pretence of caring and do so effectively. Yes, where Trump missed an opportunity and of course this is because he is Upper Lesser Type B was to get elected on the basis of straight talking, but use that straight talking to get things done and use it a constructive manner rather than one which is divisive. Of course, some people can never handle straight talking even when it is constructive and one just has to let those individuals hang in the wind, but there was an opportunity to harness the lack of coming from a political dynasty (which was a major plus point for him) in a different way, but being an Upper Lesser Type B, the polish evaded him.

          3. Bibi says:

            Good points. And also the Dems put up weak candidates. Trump was stronger than Hillary who reeked of the stale political system. And there are still enough racists out there to hate Obama. Fuse that together and one gets a passionate support base. The Dems lack passion. They always have. They tip toe around issues and never want to offend anyone. Trump was the opposite of this. I think there needs to be a happy medium. Also, Trump is not very intelligent.

          4. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Ahhhh Obama. God, how I missed last night during Biden’s speech Obama’s ability to fire me inside. It is true they are all narcs, but there are narcs, and then there are Narcs. Bibi I agree with you, the Democratic Party needs to stop presenting those candidates. If Biden has been the most voted president in the history of America is not because of him but because of his opponent.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed, Biden succeeded because he kept a lower profile (he is gaffe prone) and by staying somewhat quieter he reduced the risk in that regard. Trump did try to highlight this by labelling him Hiding Biden. Much of his success was not because he is such a special candidate but on the basis of Anyone But Trump and as mentioned earlier, Trump´s school of narcissism proved both a strength and a weakness and ultimately his undoing. If Trump had been a different type of narcissist he could have used his straight shooting approach to break down the gates and get into the White House and then once there change approach to ensure he stayed there. His narcissism is one of siege mentality so that he had to repeatedly lash out in a rudimentary fashion and being like that for four years whilst entirely natural to him, will become draining for some voters.

          6. Bibi says:

            “There are ways to go about it, however, that don’t lead to such divisiveness and antagonism.”

            Sorry. Grammar error. I am only half awake.

          7. Violetta says:


            In other words, he’s being punished for the very things for which he was once rewarded.

            I could almost feel sorry for the guy.

          8. HG Tudor says:


          9. NarcAngel says:

            “Of course, some people can never handle straight talking even when it is constructive and one just has to let those individuals hang in the wind’

            Amen. Not just in politics either.

          10. HG Tudor says:


          11. JB says:

            HG, in your opinion, are there any political leaders who aren’t narcissists?

          12. HG Tudor says:


          13. JB says:

            Interesting to know, I was starting to think all of them were narcissists! Could you please give me an example of one (a political leader who isn’t a narcissist)?

          14. HG Tudor says:

            Certainly. Access 20 Famous Empaths and 10 Famous Empaths in The Knowledge Vault.

          15. JB says:

            Thanks, HG.

          16. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

        2. Empath007 says:

          Totally unrelated to politics : I keep seeing everywhere (social media mainly) and now at the end of this comment this excitement for 2021… while I admire everyone’s optimism. 2021 is only 2 months away, things are only getting worse (particularly when it comes to COVID) so 2021 in all likely hood is going to be a much more difficult, trying year. As the longer we are in this global state (shut downs, economic and personal financial disparity) the worse it’s going to get. We all have a long road ahead of us.

          The strike of midnight on Dec 31 will not be our saviour. A new president will not be our saviour. 2021 is not our saviour.

          Not trying to single you out Bibi, i simply wanted to express my opinion to the (hundreds) of times I have heard that sentiment.

          1. Violetta says:


            Bad messenger! Bad, bad messenger! No treat for you!

          2. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Haha empath007! You just needed to add “the end is near!!! Repent!!!” for extra effects in your apocalyptic message! How ominous!

          3. Empath007 says:

            Haha ! If you want to live in a fantasy world Violetta… be my guest. I prefer to look at reality. The truth isn’t always pretty ( like having to find out the love of your life is a narc) but it’s the truth none the less.

          4. Bibi says:

            I agree Empath. 2021 will be a taxing year as well. But at least Trump will only have his Twitter acct. I just hope it is not a worse year.

          5. Empath007 says:

            haha ! 😂 SP. I’m just saying … buckle
            Up folks… things are about to get worse before they get better. I don’t need to hope a new year is the answer.
            I’ll wait for the vaccine instead lol.

          6. Violetta says:


            I know, technically the suggestions this summer that we “put up the tree and call it a year” would make as much actual difference as the English switch from Julian to Gregorian calendar in the 18th century. (There were nevertheless riots by people who thought the new calendar meant they would lose 11 days out of their lives.)

      3. Anm says:

        It’s ok, mommypino! I didn’t realize this thread was still going on. Love all of you.

  10. Bubbles 🍾 says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,
    Thank you for your most interesting dissection of The Karen, pity she wasnt classified more intellectual haha
    It is also interesting to note the meaning and use of Karen continues to shift…. we can now find male Karen’s and even black Karen’s and I believe even Trump has been called a Karen
    So even though it’s primarily about white women using their racial privilege as a weapon, let’s not forget all the nice Karen’s out there !
    I bet Susan Sharon Chad Becky n David started this 🤣
    Not happy, Jan ! 😂 (Biggest known iconic use of a name in a yellow pages ad in Australia)

    Congrats on all your up to date new material, Mr Tudor, you’re a right champion.
    Luv Bubbles xx 😘

    1. Violetta says:

      I liked the alliterative names better: Parking Lot Patty, Swimming Pool Sam. Huffy, self-righteous people come in all types. They’re not all middle-aged, middle-class white women with streaked inverted bob haircuts and a bunch of whiny kids in the SUV. Sure, that’s one flavor, but there are so many others. Class, gender, ethnicity may vary, but what never varies is the sense of entitlement.

      Anyhow, alliteration requires more creativity.

      Denial Donnie vs. Jamaica Haze Joe?

      Prissy Pence vs. Hall Monitor Harris?

  11. J says:

    Wow. I have an acquaintance named Karen who can be very difficult to be around. When the term “Karen” came about it cracked me up. This video was quite the education. Another narc detected. Thank HG!

  12. Witch says:

    @ SP
    I wasn’t trying to apply you don’t read. I think you and so many others on here are wonderful intelligent people who do read and that’s why we are all here.
    I understand that sometimes how I say things comes across as quite cuntish even though I’m not trying to put the person down. .

    I wrote a whole speech btw and then my phone died aaaarrrggghhhh!

    Basically I ran in social justice circles for years and I used to have American feminist/anti racist online friends who I spoke to on a daily basis. And let me tell you, the ideologies in these kinds of groups does create tunnel vision and it was low key eeerrmmm tbh high key encouraged to dislike/hate white people and men. And dismiss anything they say (if they don’t 100 percent agree with you and suck your toes) because of “privilege.” We were told that all white people are racist and all men are misogynistic because they have been raised in a racist and misogynistic society.
    I was just listing the things I had to do to avoid becoming trapped in that way of thinking again because it was extremely unhealthy, bad for my mental health and a dead end especially trying to be the thought police all the time. God that was exhausting!

    I’ve been exposed to the weirdo conspiracy theories about the white devils. A black guy told me not that long ago that basically being gay is a a white mans disease because they are closer to animals via their Neanderthal DNA and that the only reason that black gay people exist is because white people passed it on to them through slavery, otherwise black gay people wouldn’t exist, now if he was president it would be just as bad.

    When you said:
    “Dehumanizing, subjugating, and othering people since 1488.” You don’t need to be a narc to get trapped in a colonial way of thinking, in fact, it is pretty much ingrained in most Western countries.”

    I thought you were saying that white people are racist/have a colonial way of thinking regardless of whether or not they are a narc by saying it’s ingrained in most western countries.
    Which is why I said that’s a global issue, because of narcissism not specific to any group. But I may have misinterpreted what you said.

    1. Fiddleress2 says:

      Your post was very interesting to read. It made think of a group that exists in France called the PIR (which sounds like the French word meaning ‘worst’ – quite apt!). It’s a small group but very vocal, and it is given ample presence on TV notably. The woman at its head wrote a book not long ago entitled “The Whites, the Jews, and us” (‘us’ referring to black people and north Africans. And yes, I can confirm what you all may have heard: antisemitism has been on the rise over the past decade at least here).
      In this book, she claimed that a black woman who gets raped by a black man should not report him as that would be a breach of solidarity and loyalty to her race, and showing trust in the enemy: ‘white’ justice.
      Absolutely crazy.

      1. Witch says:


        “a black woman who gets raped by a black man should not report him as that would be a breach of solidarity and loyalty to her race, and showing trust in the enemy: ‘white’ justice.”

        The narcs in these groups sabotage their own group with this way of thinking.
        It would actually benefit black women to be more visible by making more reports to the police when they are victims of domestic abuse and sexual abuse, not less!
        Yes there are individual police officers who are narcs and some who are ill equipped at dealing with this cases, but the more visible the demand the greater the changes.
        The more visible the demand the greater the knowledge and awareness and the more funding can be provided to domestic and sexual abuse agencies specifically for black women.

        I remember when an American woman in one of my groups said the police shouldn’t investigate domestic abuse cases it should be a separate group. But that separate group would have to be giving police training to handle these cases therefore making them basically the same as the police!
        I tired to argue for police reform rather than eradication and that there are pros and cons to everything and a lot of problems with the police are Male problems because they are the ones hanging on street corners, we do need the police as women especially when our door is getting kicked in by our ex! But she wasn’t hearing it.

        I remember an Indian friend letting me that she can not imagine black women being victims of domestic abuse because they are so tough and I had to correct her. They are not “so tough” they are human beings with the same propensity for feeling pain as everyone else. Yes they do experience domestic abuse, they may just may be less likely to report it to the police. Also a lot of black African women are deeply religious and do not believe in divorce.

        1. Witch says:

          There’s an interview on YouTube called “ how anti-racism disempowers with Erec Smith” who is a black American professor and he criticises the latest anti-racist sentiment that black Americans should not be expected to learn standard English in schools because they have there own dialect and he argues this could potentially lead to segregation (separate schools for black and white people.)
          I watch a lot of Benjamin Boyce’s YouTube interviews because he interviews people with “alternative” opinions and it helps me to see things in a different way

          1. Fiddleress2 says:

            “Black Americans should not be expected to learn”…?! Wow, and they call this anti-racist? It is utterly racist. Does the term covert racism exist? Or racism in reverse? I always think that everyone must be treated equally, and if there is groundwork to be done to bridge inequalities so that then everyone can access the same standard of education, that’s where the effort should go to start with.
            Poorer people used to be denied access to secondary education until some years before I was born, and women could not take the same highly regarded degree called Agrégation, here, before I was born, as (well-off) men. In both cases, it was deemed that the poor, and women, lacked a few neurons.
            Now that women can take this Agrégation, they pass it more often than men. And until a few years ago, education did function as a way up the social ladder for all those who had the will and capacity to study. But free, quality education is less and less a priority here…

          2. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I am trying to bite my lip in this thread, but so that you know, the sociolinguistic claim does not suggest that Blacks shouldn’t be expected to learn standard English (whatever that means, because in sociolinguistics “standard” is just a centralizing, prescriptive imposition upon a false ideal of a neutral correct dialect, since every single human being that has the ability to speak shows a specific accent, unless trained to not do so) is that Black Americans should not be linguistically profiled for not using standard English, just like Latinx students who express themselves in Spanglish/code-switching/translanguaging should not be penalized or sociolinguistically profiled for expressing their hybrid cultural identities. Whoever is afraid of segregation happening should actually read information from the National Center of Education Statistics and the division of schools according to funding based on socio-economic status of the students attending it: Title I, Title 2…

          3. Witch says:

            The argument was that it is white supremacist to impose standard English on black people….
            I do believe it’s possible to correct someone’s grammar as an educator without making them feel inferior or like there’s something inherently wrong with them. It’s how you do it.
            If this is taken seriously which is appears that in certain American institutions it is being taken seriously, this could significantly limit black students skills and negatively affect how well they can adapt to living in a western country. Even a lower class white person from the hood would need to learn stand English in higher education.
            With a lot of these ideologies there’s very much a lack of intelligent strategy and instead they often rely heavily on provoking guilt and fear.

          4. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I don’t believe students should not learn “standard” English. The most recent methodologies do not refused do that, though they also validate other linguistic registers depending on context, Witch. For example, for a formal essay I would comply with the recognized standard. For class expressions of ideas I have more tolerance and allow creativity. Contrary to what many people think, linguistic development is not made by scholars or teachers, it is made by speakers in a natural manner.

          5. Witch says:

            “Black Americans should not be linguistically profiled for not using standard English, just like Latinx students who express themselves in Spanglish/code-switching/translanguaging should not be penalized or sociolinguistically profiled for expressing their hybrid cultural identities.”

            When writing a fictional novel yeah but an academic text? Spanglish that outsiders don’t understand in an academic text?
            I remember once when I asked HG a question and I used the term ”mumzy” and he didn’t understand so I had edit because it wasn’t standard English. That’s life.

          6. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Spanglish is being used in academic texts precisely because very few readers of academic texts are non-academics. If you are not an academic who is fluent in the terminology used within the field, you can write in Spanglish, in English, in Elve, but you won’t understand anything anyway. As an educator, you need to separate what is linguistic competence from linguistic accuracy. One would assess the students’ ability to communicate while the other would access the fluency in the language. Because I don’t think you are an educator of bilingual students, I won’t take recommendations from you. Bilingualism is life too.

          7. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Also, if HG didn’t understand that term he could have used the urban dictionary like most mortals do, but being a god he probably didn’t give a shit to do so.

          8. HG Tudor says:

            You are correct, I did not have any interest in doing so.

          9. Sweetest Perfection says:


          10. Witch says:

            How you’re presenting it sounds very reasonable but that’s not how Erec Smith said it was presented to the professors in the manifesto they received.
            It might be better to watch the interview as it may make more sense

          11. Witch says:

            Some of these dialects were partly formulated so that outsiders don’t understand what is being said, especially authority figures like the police, teachers and sometimes even parents. I’m a “downtrodden chav” but I don’t have an expectation that everyone should use urban dictionary because it’s not mainstream, it wasn’t invented to be mainstream and therefore I don’t believe it’s pragmatic to have that expectation.

            But if HG wants to send me a voice note reciting the following I will pay money for it:
            “Wah gwan blud, so basically yeah I was out hunting with my bedrins yeah and we were having mad jokes but this idiot bredda got vex at my joke and licked me in my face wit his gun, fam! I saw red ya nah, so I sparked him in his jaw cuz, mans went down haha mans went down! But look at my mash up tooth *chupse
            Now I have to fork out paper for this!!”

          12. HG Tudor says:

            Feel free to utilise 20 Tudor Minutes, I can go urban for pay.

          13. Truthseeker6157 says:


            You might be on to something there! Do it!

          14. Violetta says:


            I had a Rhetoric professor who said she’d attended a conference in Philly where one paper argued in favor of then-trendy “Ebonics.” During QGA, a woman – black – asked the writer – white – “If my son learns this, what kind of job will he be able to get?”

            (Writer starts emitting down-wit’-da-peoole word salad.)

            Woman: “Will he able able to get your job?”

            What I told my students was that you use a particular form of discourse in academic writing, another with your friends, another with your parents, and so on. I used Erasmus’ “I liked your letter” exercise as a demonstration. It’s no more culturally insensitive than teaching white students in South Philly they can’t use multiple negatives for emphasis (“I ain’t never goin’ nowhere wit’ him no more”) or use “youse” as a subject pronoun and “yiz” as an object pronoun in academic situations. It’s a question of considering who your audience is.

            I have serious doubts about anyone who wants to impose linguistic segregation on an entire segment of the population. Very few businesses will hire someone whose resume and cover email are written in any such dialect.

          15. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I agree with both your views on that, basically nobody follows a prescriptive approach solely these days, while a descriptive one by itself would hurt the students’ professional prospects. As I explained above, depending on context I am more or less inclined toward what is considered “correction.” But other registers and dialectal variations from the “norm” are parte of culture too and as such, perfectly valid and recognized.

          16. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I forgot to add “narcissist” to my comment. So there it goes: only a narc would impose a 100% prescriptive or descriptive approach!

          17. Witch says:


            They really thought black parents sent their kids to school to write in patois? Lmfao

          18. Sweetest Perfection says:

            If the student already speaks Patois, I don’t see the point in going to college to learn it -failed point-. If the student doesn’t but already speaks and writes “standard” English, knowledge is power. As with anything, it depends on your field of expertise. You are speaking as if anything the students are gonna learn in college is English. In translation studies for example, every single linguistic and cultural nuance improves your skills as a translator. But also, I wonder with the thousands of followers HG has here, imagine there are some that speak Patois. What would they think of this comment!?

          19. Witch says:


            It was a friggin joke in response to violetta saying a BLACK mum asked “what job can my son get with this? Can he get your job?”

            Exactly! if someone knows how to speak and write in Patios at home their parents are not sending them to school for that, they are sending them to school to secure their future employment knowing they will have to compete in a Western society, which is completely logical.
            I wasn’t saying there is anything wrong with having your own cultural dialect at home but it is a minority dialect in a Western Society, so I’m afraid most other people would not understand it. And most black parents understand that and can apply intelligent strategies to dealing with it because they aren’t stupid and know how to reason and they also know they are not being singled out as it’s the same standard for everyone else who uses a minority dialect.

    2. Sweetest Perfection says:

      Witch, all I can say to that is, who are you hanging out with? Hahaha

      1. Witch says:

        Lol SP
        There are legit nut jobs (narcs) trying to influence policy and impose their ideology and sometimes they succeed.
        I was in a training and the trainer actually said someone may identify as a male one day and present that way but another day they may identify as a different gender and I was sitting there thinking “this is embarrassing, narcissistic, making our community look mentally ill!”
        And this person probably meant well but it’s not realistic or pragmatic to expect people to understand, acknowledge and remember 56 different genders or whatever.

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          Ok that’s funny.

        2. Sweetest Perfection says:

          Witch, I’m thinking that I would actually enjoy attending those sessions as a tourist, like Marla in Fight Club.

          1. Witch says:

            They made us write our pronouns on a label and stick it on our shirts as it’s becoming more common to fake pretend that you don’t know what sex is

  13. A Victor says:

    My son has called me Karen as a joke, he thinks it’s very funny. Lol. Also, I have a very good friend who’s name is Karen, she is not “the Karen” at all, I feel bad for her!! She laughs it off.

  14. K says:

    There are three girls in my daughter’s class that I strongly suspect are Narcissists: 1 MMRN, 1 LMRN and a ULN type B.

    My daughter told me that the suspected LMRN, who is blond, wore a Live, Laugh, Love T-shirt the other day and a
    wall hanging can be seen in the background with the words: Live, Love, Laugh (they are remote learning).

    1. Bibi says:

      OMG the Live, Laugh, Love shit. I don’t know if that is prominent in the UK but women with that shit tend to be these US hockey mom types with little hobbies talents or time or self-reflection.

      Is the A and B in relation to blood types? badum-tiss.

      1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Dearest Bibi,
        I remember recently here, we had the Live Love Laugh, along with the driftwood, discussion haha

        I bet The Karen is also a KMart shopper and is relocating into her new two storey dog box with her tightly squeezed SUV/HR-V
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        1. Bibi says:

          Haha Bubbles. I remember now. We need to come up with a new slogan. Binge, Burp and Barf.

          1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest Bibi,
            Excellent !!!!!!! Luv it !!!!!!

            After you ………Lick Sip Suck


            Luv Bubbles 😘

          2. Bibi says:


            Dissolution, Despair, Despondency

        2. K says:

          Dearest Bubbles,
          That was hilarious!

          Luv K xoxox

          truthseeker6157 says:
          July 18, 2020 at 21:05
          * Carefully removes ‘ Live Laugh Love’ driftwood carving from back of bedroom door*

          1. Truthseeker6157 says:


            I remember that too K !

          2. K says:

            Hahahahaha…your comment and the ones that followed were a riot!

          3. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest K,
            Thank you muchly for sourcing that post Ms A Marvel !
            That was great to revisit again
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          4. K says:

            Dearest Bubbles,

            There’s nothing like a trip down memory lane!

            Luv K xoxox

        3. Sweetest Perfection says:

          Bubbles, a KMART shopper 😂

          1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest Sweetest Perfection,
            MOI? A Kmart shopper ? Not on your nelly !

            I’ve been a proud OP shopper with discerning tastes all my life, I never pay full price for anything 😂
            I even secured Mr Bubbles as ….. ‘last of the specials with an extended warranty ‘ 😂
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          2. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Nooo I wasn’t calling you one, I was quoting what you said about Karens probably being KMART shoppers haha. The way the comment reads, though, is confusing, sorry. But your response was worth it! Mr Bubbles “last of the specials with an extended warranty” haha!!

          3. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest Sweetest Perfection,
            Haha …. Oops I did it again
            If anyone is going to read something the wrong way……thadda be moi !!!
            I chose Kmart cos every house for sale I see online, all have that same Kmart look, which I felt would resonate with the entitled Karen and what better place to take the Made in China (good excuse to bring up covid while she’s at it ) items back to complain to the manager……they usually have big car parks to rant n rave as well 😂
            She gets around, the last Karen I saw was in Spotlight. 🤣
            Thank you Sweetest for kindly explaining
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

    2. Bubbles 🍾 says:

      Dearest K,
      Karen gets her own song, that just made my day…….hilarious 🤣🤣🤣
      Thank you 😊
      Luv Bubbles xx 😘

      1. K says:

        My pleasure Dearest Bubbles!
        It was quite funny.
        Luv K xoxox

    3. Leigh says:

      Oh no! I have a plaque and an electronic candle that say Live, Love, Laugh. They were gifts and I love them.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Burn them! Then burn the ashes!

      2. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Deares Leigh,
        Not the electronic candle 😱………. you don’t need another ‘fake’ in your life 😂
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        Ps I totally agree with Mr Tudor, burn the ashes of the ashes and some and ‘ again ‘ to be sure 🤣

    4. Another Cat says:

      Some people need to look extremely good and shoot out fantastic Golden Periods.

      Otherwise no one would ever come near.

  15. Sami says:


    I wouldn’t think a Karen would be anti-vax. I would think she would be heavily pro-vax to the point of ranting and raving things like, “Your kid is going to make my kid sick! Get your damn vax!!!” or something like that. I can’t imagine her having the empathy and concern for others well being or even researching what actually is in a vax to care one way or the other. Only to the point of forcing others to comply to it. Now, that I could see her doing.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are losing sight of the fact this is a narcissist, rather than “A Karen”. She could be anti-vaccination or pro-vaccination and both in the same day. I was referencing what others describe the Karen as “racist and anti-vaccination” but that is not the issue, a Karen (i.e. the narcissist) can be found in those who are left wing as well as right wing, those who are pro vaccination or anti-vaccination.

      1. Sami says:

        True! I definitely see that. Thanks for clearing it up. : )

      2. Empath007 says:

        The world needs you HG. For real. You’ve changed my life by speaking the truth. It’s a truth not even your kind will ever understand. As they walk the earth thinking they are good, loving people.

      3. wildviolet22 says:

        HG- I was watching the movie Uncle Tom, including the deleted scenes, and found this clip interesting. They talk about white “woke” liberal narcissism here.

        Also, I just want to comment that I live in the US, and despite our MSM making it seem like we are the bloods and crips, with political viewpoints aligning with Idenity Politics, there actually is diversity of thought. 42% of us are actually registered Independent. And I think there are narcissists everywhere, from all walks of life, and with all kinds of political viewpoints.

        But anyways, here’s the Uncle Tom clip:

        1. A Victor says:

          wildviolet22, thank you for your comment and the clip. I live in the US also and I think the MSM is distorting truths outside of our country as well as inside it.

          As an American who has lived in many different parts of the country and who’s adult children have as well, I can attest to the diversity (political, ethnic etc) and to the welcoming of it in most of the places I’ve lived.

          Also, in my own family. My family of origin and the family I married into have all political idealogies represented, and also all ethnicities represented, nobody looks at skin, we just love and support each other, or not, based on who we are inside.

          I have a good friend who happens to be black and talks freely about her experience growing up in a military family, on bases. There was no color, only people. To her those who make it about color, whether derogatorily, violently, condescendingly or patronizingly, are the racists. And she has come across equally as many of darker colors who do this as white people who do it though not many in the big picture altogether. She sees the need for merit based acceptance for college and jobs, and the damage done to people on both sides when something is given or withheld based on skin color.

          I believe I heard Trump, as a Republican, got somewhere between 40-45% of the black vote last Tues. The Latino vote was even higher. There is a reason for that.

          I’m not on this site for politics, but I do appreciate your comment.

          1. wildviolet22 says:

            A Victor- thank you for your comment too. Good to hear. Our media is mostly terrible. You really have to dig to get past the sensationalized junk and the muck. And I have had similar experiences when talking to people in real life.

            Are you familiar with Street Lights Unity Movement? It’s Americans from various racial/ ethnic backgrounds coming together and talking about this stuff. Movements like that give me some hope. There have been quite a few of them that have popped up. Perhaps you are already familiar, but thought I’d mention it.

          2. A Victor says:

            wildviolet, I have not heard of them but will check them out, thank you!

        2. Leea says:

          Wild Violet,

          Thank you for this clip. I found it extremely thought-provoking. The diversity of thought actually is within my own home. My son identifies with the blacks in this video: I don’t. I don’t identify with either. I appreciate the liberals realizing there is a problem and attempting to solve it. I don’t appreciate the blacks not accepting there is a problem. Blacks were/are victims- still disenfranchised. No one should ever get away without getting paid – just bad business. Blacks, along with other persons of color, built America. They are the reason why America is considered one of the greatest countries. Blacks have a 400 plus year-old -tab that they need to cash in on. Jews saw themselves as victims. They will never let anyone forget it. They realized the situation and rose above it – not remaining victims. Blacks have to accept what happened and at least try to solve the problem. The blacks in that video can be potentially dangerous for other blacks.

    2. Liza says:

      My aunt who is a typical karen, in other words a narcissist is no vax and adheres to all the conspiracy theories you can imagine, but since the begining of covid-19 she keeps asking why there is no vaccine and repeates all day long that the only way to get back to a normal life is by having a vaccine. In the same conversation, she will explain how it is the governments that created the virus to eliminate old people and then go and tell you that it is a punishement from god because people nowadays are decadent, she wants to control the education of her daughter’s children but doesn’t want her son’s children to spend the holidays at their maternal grandmother’ house, these are her most recent accomplishements i can’t list evrything, like any other narcissist, consistancy and logic do not appear in karen’s list of priorities.

      i really like this video because it dismisses all the excuses that are mad to excuse karens as ” she is just stupide” ,”she has a supperiority complex”or “it is juste generational” as if there is an age in wiche it is ok to be rude and hurtful. i’m talking too muche i’l stop here.

      1. Another Cat says:


        ” in other words a narcissist is no vax and adheres to all the conspiracy theories you can imagine, but since the begining of covid-19 she keeps asking why there is no vaccine and repeates all day long that the only way to get back to a normal life is by having a vaccine.”

        Sounds so familiar, like my Midranger mother.

        “Didn’t you know my daughter what’s on the back of the moon?Aliens, Buzz Aldrin just kept quiet about it. Listen to David Icke!!”

        “But mom, you just told me they never went to the moon? No one has been there at all, innit?”

        Long time since we had contact but I think I remember she even giggled a bit at my quick observation.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          David Icke, a complete Mid Range clown.

          1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            David Icke must be friends with David IRVING then haha

          2. Another Cat says:

            Thank you, HG,

            one more reason to not click. I don’t even know what he looks like. Hearing conspiracy theories even mentioned is very tiresome for us ACONs of Type B narc parents.

            My mind goes “Icke? Oh, chemtrails!”

          3. HG Tudor says:

            He lost it with the turquoise track suits!

        2. A Victor says:

          Is it common for narcissists to believe in aliens and demons and such? That narc I was talking to talked about this stuff a lot, I actually wondered about his sanity at times. He’s try to get me to agree with him, I found it odd.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Certain narcissists do so, yes.

          2. lickemtomorrow says:

            My narcx was fascinated with the stars and sent me a link to the 24hr space station feed. He eventually fessed up with an experience he had related to a possible alien sighting and he loved Star Trek. You’re definitely onto something, AV. Plus he had spooky stories to tell as well. So he ticked all those boxes! He was a good storyteller to (as in relating the stories of what he had experienced). Had me on the edge of my seat.

        3. Liza says:

          Hello Another Cat,

          Ah the famous “they never went to the moon but there are aliens on the moon and they don’t want to let us know “paradox, the number of people who believe this theories is surprisingly big. Sometimes,when i look at them one by one, karens and the likes are amusing but taken as a whole it is discouraging, it feels like instead of going forward we have to rewalke ( i’m not sure if this word exists and i’m too scared to get insulted by google if i check) the same distance again and again.

    1. Sweetest Perfection says:

      Watch them now talking about the inherent violence of colored people. “They are animals” they will say.

      1. MommyPino says:

        SP, that is so sad that anyone would ever think of any person regardless of race as something that is stripped of humanity. That thought process is truly not from someone who is not a narcissist and not of a narcissist with high cognitive abilities.

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          Welcome to the colonial mentality! “Dehumanizing, subjugating, and othering people since 1488.” You don’t need to be a narc to get trapped in a colonial way of thinking, in fact, it is pretty much ingrained in most Western countries.

          1. Witch says:

            I never thought there would be a day that I would defend white people this hard, but here it goes… they aren’t the only ones…dehumanisation and colonisation isn’t unique to the west.
            There are also a lot of Asians and Arabs who are very anti black people. There’s also dehumanisation based on religious differences which sometimes results into ethnic cleansing.
            When British MC Wiley (who i would bet money on is a narc) made a stream of anti-Semitic tweets because he fell out with his Jewish manager, a lot of black people defended him because he’s black.
            People tend for have a bias for people who look like them and fear what they aren’t familiar with.
            That’s why I like to read, travel when I can and google search to avoid being one of those people who think “my world” is THE world.
            Also being here on narcsite as changed a lot of my views as well, because I can see the narcissism more clearly.
            I think at the moment it’s becoming trendy for everyone including white people to not like white people and blame the common white man for all the ills in the world but it’s fake news. The common white man can’t even afford his heating bill much less rule the world.
            That’s not to minimise the horrific colonial history of the West but just to provide a broader perspective which I’ve come to realise.

          2. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Witch, it is a mistake to think that anyone who is against racism is anti white. You also read my comment as a statement against whiteness which is erroneous. I am against white supremacy in any form. Colonialism and imperialistic practices doesn’t exclude other continents. I mentioned the west because we live in a western culture and the examples provided in the links above happened in America not in Asia.

          3. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I had to leave abruptly because I had to attend a phone call, Witch. I also wanted to comment that the fact one works against oppressive systems locally doesn’t exclude that there are other broader issues globally, however, comparing the bad things that happen in other cultures as an excuse to the ones that you witness in your own is not valid for me, because then, apathy conquers any desires to improve social conditions. “That’s why I like to read, travel when I can and google search to avoid being one of those people who think “my world” is THE world.” Leaving aside that google searching is not necessarily the panacea for knowledge, and that traveling a lot doesn’t necessarily secure the traveler’s grasping of the idiosyncrasies of different cultures, I’m gonna try to think you were not suggesting that I do not read.

          4. MommyPino says:

            Hello SP, No one needs to introduce me to colonial mentality because I grew up in an environment that has so much of it in my home country in Asia. I have heard of that phrase since childhood as one of the criticisms about the culture in my home country. And actually it is not just people of color that gets affected by it. If your features are anything but the general norm, whether you look white, black or your eyes look like you’re part Chinese or Japanese you get picked on and it just becomes part of your normal life that you ignore. My classmates plucking my hair because it looks golden when the sun hits it, group of kids chanting songs to me of racial slur, being sexualized by adults as a kid because white women are viewed as horny and asking for sex etc. It isn’t just in the Western world were people who look different get picked on. But the point of my earlier comment was that what you described was so extreme that I thought it indicated narcissism rather than just ignorance.

          5. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Exoticism and hypersexualization of the “other” are part of colonialism too, and although I mentioned the West, colonial and imperialistic practices were imposed by many countries of the West on non-Western countries so when you mention the occurrence of these cases in Asia it is no coincidence either. No, you don’t need to “look” colored. You just need to be deviated from the hegemonic culture. I don’t think you are aware that although you wrote your comment with a defensive tone, our positions are in agreement. Just that many people think when we talk about colonialism we are just talking about skin. In any case, instead of deviating and talking about how we live our personal experiences with oppression, because I am sure we all have examples of it at a certain level, let’s go back to my original comment, in which I denounce what the videos above show: people that are racist insulting individuals of color, making them feel foreign because they look different, and then being slapped or hit in any form. I said these people that reacted are probably gonna be stereotyped later on as being aggressive due to the colonial mentality still pervasive in Western countries: that non-white civilizations are uncultured, uncivilized, primitive, and ultimately, closer to animals. Statements such as “black angry woman” or “loud Hispanic” together with cases of linguistic profiling based on the detection of a different accent or the use of code switching are other examples. The case I described is not extreme, it is experienced by many in this country. When Obama won, the comparisons of his family with chimps were a daily occurrence. People with native indigenous features have also been portrayed as being animalistic. Indigenous people were not recognized to be human and have a soul by colonial Spain. It is just a fact that colored people have been compared with animals throughout history, which was my point. I don’t see the value of commenting against my comment just for the sake of it. Neither am I against whites nor will I ever. It’s sad that I cannot talk about racism without having to apologize first for things not intended because it offends more to denounce racist practices than to keep your mouth shut.

          6. MommyPino says:

            I also want to add, I have never met anyone in the US in my 13 years of living here anyone who spoke the way that you quoted. I do not know if it’s because I live in California even though I live in a very rural and conservative part of it or if it’s because people know that I’m half Asian so they don’t show racism in front of me. But I don’t have an experience where what you said is ingrained in the culture here that I have been exposed to. That’s why I thought that it was pretty extreme.

          7. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Hispanic kids in cages? Hello.

          8. Sweetest Perfection says:

            MP, I think I mentioned the American movie “The Birth of a Nation.” While having been praised for its advanced cinematic technology, the movie gave rise to the rebirth of the KKK. In it, Southern Blacks are described as “certain bestial simians eating fried chicken and bananas, leering at white women in the galleries.” Hispanic kids in cages poked with sticks by racist people, snipers hunting undocumented immigrants at the border, there are many examples. The darker the color of your skin, the closer you are to being the target of these comparisons. Of course you or I don’t suffer this personally, but I am aware others do and that it’s a very old trope.

          9. alexissmith2016 says:

            This is making me think of the film, ‘The Nightingale’. Wow! Not sure whether you’ve watched this or not, it’s about a young girl who essentially seeks revenge on the most evil narc ever! It’s set in 1825 colonial (what is now) Tasmania. It’s pretty harrowing. If you’re easily triggered I wouldn’t watch this as there is one scene in particular which is brutal. Actually not even easily triggered because I don’t consider myself to be (except at the moment after a change in OCP lol) anyway, generally speaking I’m not. But I cried watching this and I very rarely cry, not from one decade to the next.

            But if you can stomach it, I’d recommend it, because more than anything, it demonstrates (by the time you get to the end of the film) how the narcissist can really show his brutal side to some but to others he’s a complete brown noser. If I was in recovery, I think I would find that particularly valuable because it would force me to truly view any narc in the same light and deep down what they are all truly capable of. I would not hesitate to go NC after watching this.

            But honestly, if you don’t want to watch anything distressing, don’t watch this.If you can bear it, it’s an outstanding film.

          10. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I haven’t watched it yet but I’m super intrigued now, Alexis.

          11. alexissmith2016 says:

            It is excellent. A real mixture of nationalities portraying at a time when the British colonised Tasmania. But the main plot is about a girl who seeks revenge against a group of soldiers, although one in particular.
            I had thought it was a British film, and I do love the grit of British movies. But it was actually Australian. I haven’t watched too many Australian films so I’m not too sure how they compare ordinarily, but I wouldn’t have been able to tell.

            I guess it also appeals to me because the girl seeks revenge in this film against people whom are mostly Ns. I have a shred of sympathy for the one who perhaps isn’t.

          12. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I would recommend Antebellum which I watched last night, but given the ideas of many here I don’t dare to.

          13. HG Tudor says:

            Er, you just did.

          14. alexissmith2016 says:

            I’ll go take a look – thanks for the recommendation SP. What do you mean the ideas of many here?

          15. Sweetest Perfection says:

            If you watch the movie, you will understand what I mean.

          16. MommyPino says:

            SP, I wasn’t commenting against your post just for the sake of it. And I don’t really even consider my response as commenting ‘against’ your post. I was just adding my perspective. I also would not want anybody to keep their mouth shut. I’m for more thoughts being able to be voiced out. I’m for more discussions. That’s why I denounce the censorship in Twitter and FB of conservative voices but that is a different topic.

            I think that everyone’s experiences are valuable. Just because as a person with white features I experience oppression too doesn’t mean that my experiences are if no value compared to people of color in a diverse country that may have experienced less oppression than people like me who lived in a country that lacked diversity. If you’re a white person living in a mostly black environment you will get picked on. That is a fact. My point is that there is ignorance and there is narcissism. And that is why HG said that Karens are narcissists and not the norm. I do not deny nor disbelieve that many people of color experienced horrible oppressions but the only part that I disagree with is that non narcissists would engage in oppression to the same degree that narcissists do because empathy would put a halt to that no matter how ignorant a person is. I believe that there are people who behave in a racist manner due to ignorance or learned behavior but when someone treats people of other group in such disdain that they are not humans to them I thought it was not normal or the general behavior of the majority but more indicative of narcissism.

          17. MommyPino says:

            SP, I can’t remember if I
            said this in my previous reply in moderation but I also don’t think you should apologize for anything. If I thought that your comments have no value I would not have replied to it. The fact that what you said made me share my point of view from my personal experiences and observations mean that your thoughts got me engaging and got my critical thinking going.

            Just another thought that I want to add which may or may not be accurate. I think it’s also possible for normal people to spew racist remarks when their empathy is eroded. But there has to be a trigger there and the motivation would be to hurt the person and it may not necessarily be their normal thought process when their empathy is not eroded. That is my personal theory. But I believe that a person who lives their lives thinking that other people that do not have their features is inferior to them is a big red flag of narcissism in my opinion.

          18. MommyPino says:

            Dear SP, I hope that you wouldn’t feel that I am bombarding you with comments as there is just another thought that crossed my mind and I just want to share which you can ignore if you want.

            Regarding colonial mentality. I just want to clarify or expound because the colonial mentality in my home country is not of the same version as the colonial mentality in the Western countries although it is both stemming from the same roots. It’s like the phases of the moon where it is the same moon but just shows the different sides of it.

            Colonial mentality is my country was rooted from our country being the “colonized” country of Spain, US and Japan. Therefore our colonial mentality is actually an embedded thinking that our race is inferior to the European race and culture and also of the Japanese and Chinese. It’s so weird because how can a group of people be racist when there is colonial mentality? A lot of the racism against people with features of the colonizing races are probably a reaction from the hatred for those races who colonized. But my husband said that racism is also when you favor a certain race more than others. When he visited there there were a lot of people who treated him extra special because he’s white and he said that he thinks that would be considered racism too because he thinks racism is treating other people differently although he added that people in my home country are probably one of the nicest people on earth but they are not aware of racism that much. I don’t know if he is right technically but I thought what he said was interesting. Anyway, I will start homeschooling now and I just don’t want you to think I’m ignoring if I don’t get to reply soon if you reply if this gets moderated during the day. 💕❤️

          19. Sweetest Perfection says:

            MP, I can’t respond to everything without sounding like I’m giving a lecture on terms that may sound too technical and that some of you would accuse of being academic indoctrination. Most of what you explain, including the example of what your husband calls racism in his personal experience, is not other than internalized oppression from the years of oppression of being taught and shown that the other culture is the good one and the local is inferior. But I don’t want to expand on this here. It could be fantastic if one day, free from pandemics and narcissist bondages, we both could sit together and have a glass of wine/ drink of your choice and talk about all of these like two good friends. Writing in the blog about these issues tends to create tension and misunderstandings. As I am typing these words my husband informed me that Biden won. I am not gonna lie, I’m glad Trump didn’t, but as you know, I’m not excited about Biden either. I, however, won’t stop working to create the change I wanna see in the world and social justice to me is a life motor, whether the narc in charge is Obama, Trump, Biden, or any other. Love ❤️

          20. MommyPino says:

            SP and AlexisS, I haven’t seen the movies you mentioned but I will try to watch them. I do get triggered a lot and some movies disturb me for more than one day such as Philomena, Miss Saigon play and even Memoirs of a Geisha which all have narcissists in their stories.

            SP, I agree that those are horrible things and should never be allowed to happen. But personally I think those examples are not behaviors of people with empathy and most likely narcissists. I cannot for the life of me imagine a person with empathy describing a group of people the way the Southern Blacks were described. The micro aggressions I would say could be a product of ignorance or unfamiliarity but anything that is so purely hateful and superior I think is narcissism. There have been people in my home country that were killed by military Americans who were said to be hunting or practicing on our people and that has been one of the issues the US base has been kicked out of our country. These instances have been extremely rare but have happened and of course caused outrage and triggered the feelings of being colonized once again. It has been one of the things that I couldn’t understand before but now I believe I have the answer and the answer is narcissism or maybe psychopathy. But I don’t think that a person whose brain functions with empathy involuntarily could ever hunt people like animals. Poking immigrant children in detention centers (cages) is also narcissism in my opinion. I believe that a big majority of people would not behave that way. Also I am sorry but the detention centers that look like cages were built by Obama during his administration. I think the situation is so screwed up and sad for the kids but quite frankly I know for a fact that some parents bring their kids to situations like that. The parents should not have brought the kids illegally to cross another country. And also from what I have read, in many instances it wasn’t the parents who brought the kids to the border but the parents hired coyotes to smuggle their kids to the border. And that is the reason they couldn’t find the parents. And they said in many instances, when they found the parents, the parents doesn’t want the kids back because they believe their kids will have a better life in the detention centers in the US. It is probably hard to comprehend how parents would do that but I know from personal experience that parents sometimes do that in belief that they are making a logical and practical decision for their family. The kids were not there because of their race but because that was the system that the government came up with to manage the illegal immigration problem. I hope they can figure out a better way while also not allowing people to come freely inside and outside our country without documentations and going through the legal process that people from other country go through.

          21. ANM says:

            Sweetest Perfection,
            My father owns that film, Birth of a Nation. I believe it has been banned and they aren’t allowed to reproduce it anymore. Not 100% sure of the logistics. With that being said, Sacha Baron Cohen’s work most accurately depicts the USA current issues with racism, gullibility, and even stupidity. I loved his reality show, This Is America. I live in AZ, and the episode where he goes to Kingman Arizona to pretend that the Clinton Foundation was going to donate money to the town of Kingman in exchange that they must allow the largest Muslin Mosque to be built in Kingman, was spot on. Just a note, I do not live in Kingman. This week, I did work for my county recorders office, and worked at one of the Presidential Election polling locations on Tuesday. I wish that it wasn’t against the law to video record people voting, because I have some crazy stories of people flying off the handle on Tuesday. Then all the conspiracy theories that the Trump Administration and Trump’s followers started about how and why the elections are rigged, was beyond impossible and embarrassingly stupid. Yet, no one really bothers to even educate themselves with the basic education of how elections work, so they fall for the hype and spread the stupidity. I’m kind of embarrassed of Americans during 2020.

          22. Sweetest Perfection says:

            ANM, free and conveniently uploaded on YouTube
            “This Is America” is the song by Glover, I bet you meant “Who Is America.” I haven’t watched it yet but those kinds of shows make me very uncomfortable.

          23. MommyPino says:


            Haha I know this has nothing to do with the Karens but just to respond to your post, there has been documented evidence of unfairness that raise suspicions that there is cheating. I have watched a video where Republican poll watchers were not allowed inside while Democrats were allowed and the reason that the guy in charge said was Covid Capacity Rule. It’s so basic that when you allow a Democrat to watch the counting you should allow a Republican to be in the room as well. Of course people are going to wonder what are they doing inside? Some boxes of ballots were found in the trash in separate instances and a USPS worker whistleblower said that things are being rigged as well regarding the mail in ballot. Those are not conspiracy theories but real instances that should be investigated. Pennsylvania has been changing the rules and they were even ordered by Justice Alito to set aside the ballots that came in after a certain date which they ignored! How can people ignore the laws and expect half of the country to be ok with it?

            I agree that there are also conspiracy theories but a lot of Republican do not even read them. Some friends forward them to me and I don’t read all of them. And I don’t believe them as I can tell if something is a conspiracy theory or not.

            However the Democrats have wasted resources because of the Russian collusion that never happened and when the transcripts were released nobody had any evidence and yet they lied on TV saying they have evidence. Amazing how they can lie on TV and say they have evidence for the Russian collusion and the same people said in the closed door investigation under oath that they don’t have any evidence. Phenomenal! And actually that dishonesty is much more embarrassing.

          24. MommyPino says:

            Hello SP,

            Thank you that would be great someday indeed! I always enjoy my private conversations with you!

            My husband actually called me too to let me know of the result. It saddened me but I’ll be fine. I’m in Apple Hill right now with the kids. I’m just eating my misery right now haha! They have the best and the most beautiful apple fritters here. They’re also huge! Believe me! 😂😭😭

      2. BC30 says:

        Old tired arguments. I hear ya tho. They will.

  16. Fieke says:

    Ohw I am stunned! This is my little sister..

    1. Fieke says:

      Hi HG,

      Now hearing you speak about Karen, I just am so overwhelmed! It is exactly the missing link, I never understood. But why would a karen, if a narcissist, lack the charm, she has some, but it is so fake and so short. Like 2 hours and the angry cracks come out already..

      How does the lack of charm within a “karen” work.
      They seem to have extreme black and white thinking, very aggressive towards anyone breaking any law ( even a homeless stealing a bread would be judged but one day he would, the other day the homeless gets empathy, just depending on how it makes Karen look ) very quickly verbally aggressive if someone says the tiniest bit perceived as critical. Go from laughing and overdoing the laughter ( extreme hysterical laughing like you are best intimate friends with no upsetting history) to giving you a complete mind-blowing additude because you have send the wrong birthday card to their child 4th birthday ( just a nice but simple card , and not a huge, music playing card )..
      I thought narcissist could pretend this charm for a longer time, she has hardly friends, just partner, kids and coworkers, and all relationships are always problematic. Is there a link with high ranking on ASS spectrum ( but not enough to diagnose?
      Does a double diagnosis exist?

      I understand ofcourse if this question is to specific to answer here. Thank you HG

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Not all narcissists exhibit charm.

  17. TheGhost of JohnMordaunt says:

    Karens worldwide will be OPHENDED hahaha nailed it HG, well done and thanks for the laughs! Much love to you and yours from me and mine, Diesel xx

  18. alexissmith2016 says:

    Ah this was brilliant HG. I’m going to forward this to a few friends!

    Hahaha love it! I was listening intently hoping that you were going to tell us which type of N a Karen is, and you didn’t disappoint. Thank you!

    There is a woman at my gym (oh shit is that a sense of entitlement saying my gym haha, oh well – a woman who goes to the same gym as me. No, it’s my gym and she just goes there sometimes), she is the epitome of a Karen. Her name is Sarah, but I always accidentally on purpose call her Karen, then apologise. God, I just can’t help myself.

    1. Witch says:


      1. alexissmith2016 says:

        Crikey witch, I’ve just seen your comment on another post re your ex taking you to see James Bond movie! Now that truly is a painful devaluation. I would have been out the door on a mere suggestion of that!

        1. Truthseeker6157 says:

          I lost all respect for James Bond when he drove through that village in a tank.

          Sorry James, that’s it, I’m done.
          No I don’t care that you are a brilliant skier though. We’re still done.

          1. Another Cat says:

            Yup, but I like Brosnan, can’t help it. He seems empathic. The others I’ve forgotten.

          2. A Victor says:

            My daughter recently told me Pierce, as I call him (Brosnan), had died!!! She kept going for a full 90 seconds. Just as I was looking it up, in tears, she giggled. Stinker. Did I mention one of my favorite movies is Mamma Mia? I even went willingly to his James Bond flicks, just for him.

            Sadly, I have heard he’s not a very nice person irl. So, maybe a narcissist, but until there proof, I’m in denial.

          3. Another Cat says:


            ” Did I mention one of my favorite movies is Mamma Mia?”

            Drumroll… again…. I managed to miss out on Mamma Mia as well as Titanic I’m afraid.
            I don’t really know what it is about me.

            I only saw Pretty Woman because a guy surprised me with it without asking. I smiled along and had a pretty good time.

            AV, oh so Pierce has his mannerisms? Figures. Celebrities.

          4. A Victor says:

            AC, Mamma Mia is just pure fun, made more so by the ABBA music throughout. Pierce singing “… And not too old for sex…” gets me everytime. Love it!

  19. MommyPino says:

    Thank you for this new material HG. I remember when you answered me that people like the lady in Central Park is a narcissist. I’m always so thankful for the many times you answer my questions and I get this light bulb moment. For me it has been enlightening to know that the Karens, Overwhelming Angels and also I remember using the term Energy Vampires before, they are all narcissists! I will spread the knowledge whenever opportunity presents itself.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome MP and thank you for spreading word of my work, that is very important.

  20. Sweetest Perfection says:

    Ah, how apropos.

    1. ANM says:

      My daughter’s father has made dozens of police reports over the past year regarding our custody battle, with the advice of his previous attorney, who is a Karen. I have a hearing on December 10, where I plan to not only object to all his police reports, if he plans to use them as exhibits without the officers actually testifying (hearsay), but I am also asking for an award of fees associated with obtaining all the complaints and reports he has made in the past year.
      If you are in the USA, and are dealing with a Narcissist who makes frivilous reports against you and won’t stop, call the records unit of the law enforcement agency, and ask for them to print out a “name check/background check” of either your name or the Karen’s name, and they should be able to print out a report of every accusation ever made against you. Sometimes you may not even know that these reports are made against you, and it’s important to make sure the situation doesn’t get out of hand. These Karen’s keep up this behavior because no one stops them, so make sure it stops with you.

  21. Sweetest Perfection says:

    No you didn’t! Haha

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