Why Won’t He Define The Relationship?

An important video you should share to someone puzzled by the other persons failure to define the relationship.

74 thoughts on “Why Won’t He Define The Relationship?

  1. Liza says:

    It took me a long time to remember the title of this video, i’m so happy i finally found it !!!

    Recently, I’ve been seeing a lot of videos on YouTube and TikTok that talk about “Situationships”. These testimonies describe a dating dynamic where people have been seeing each other for a relatively long time, doing couple things, but the relationship is never defined. From the way they describe the interactions, it looks like a narcissist dealing with an IPSS. Essentially, it looks like a “friends with benefits” thing, but it is always more or less imposed by one party and the other one sticks around and plays like they are cool with it, while hoping that their partner might eventually realize how well-matched they are and step up to a fully committed relationship.

    Unsurprisingly, it rarely ends well, and the person who was falling in love ends with a heartbreak and a shattered self-esteem, because it makes them feel less than when they understand that despite all the efforts they put into that “Situationship”, it never progressed to the loving relationship they hoped for.

    While I was listening, I was sure that I had already read or watched a video on knowing the narcissist that described this type of interaction, but I couldn’t remember the title to make sure that I wasn’t making up memories. So, I’m happy it turned out I was right !

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Your observations are accurate about those type of relationships.

    2. Leigh says:

      Hi Liza, I was in a similar situation years ago and he would describe it as, “our situation”. If they can’t define it as a relationship, that’s definitely a red flag.

    3. Liza says:

      “Your observations are accurate about those types of relationships.” I’d like to think that I am cool and mature, but the fact is I feel super flattered to be told that I was right, so thank you ^^.

      I’m sorry to learn that you have been involved in such a relationship Leigh, I hope that everything is alright now, and that you moved on. I think I can imagine how painful it is for a non-narcissist in a situationship, because contrary to the IPPS who always gets to see the bad side of the narcissist before they break up, for the IPSS, they often think of the narcissist as that amazing person who was too good for them and that it is why they weren’t the “right one”.

      1. Leigh says:

        Hi Liza, that situation ended 4 years ago and is a thing of the past. When I saw your comment, it just blew me a way for a minute. I had no idea that terminology was a thing.

  2. karmicoverload says:

    After I tried to return to him on a “casual” basis, I was nonchalantly discussing how he should find a girlfriend much younger than himself. He replied “I have one. Sort of.” That was as close as I ever got to being called his girlfriend, and it came after I’d escaped, then returned. I think he was trying to pull me closer because he didn’t like the new casual attitude I was taking. Now, after a further attempt at escape and yet another successful hoover on his part, he goes the other way. Consistently mentioning prostitution in a joking manner, basically implying I am his unpaid prostitute. Which of course, I am.
    “Is the brothel up the road open yet?” (Translation: If it was, I’d be going there rather than seeing you), and most recently “I can’t cum tonight. I’m not paying you. Ahahahaha.”
    I actually felt nauseous listening to this.
    The only positive thing I take from my interactions with him now is that I grow less and less emotionally attached to him each time he does or says something shitty. Each escape or devaluation hurts a little less and brings me closer to my final grand exit.

    1. Asp Emp says:

      “Is the brothel up the road open yet?” – I may be wrong here. I am assuming a Lesser is saying that? An MRN or Greater would not be so ‘crass’ (a Greater would if they were being really caustic)….

      1. karmicoverload says:

        Asp Emp, H.G identified him as a lower mid range.

        1. Asp Emp says:

          Ah, well, I am not too far off the mark. Thank you for letting me know 🙂

  3. BC30 says:

    I think the best dating advise I’ve ever heard was, “When he’s hot he’s hot when he’s not he’s not.” In the very short time I’ve been applying it, it’s been useful.

    You were too busy to text because you were getting used to your new work schedule you say? Nope. A text takes seconds. If you were playing the 3-day game or some shit, I’m not the one. No response. I ghost.

  4. Sweetest Perfection says:

    My narc did the opposite. He acted in front of all his friends and colleagues like we were an item together when we were not. He sent emails to them (some I didn’t even know) saying things like “It’s SP’s birthday and WE would like to celebrate at this place…” He spoke on my behalf to his friends as if he were my partner: “let me ask SP, she probably knows about this.” He left comments on social media that made me feel uneasy about what my husband or friends would think. Clearly it was a question of control, but I wasn’t even entangled! And I didn’t ask him to define anything because I didn’t have any need to. It was very strange.

  5. Tony C. says:

    Wow! Very enlightening and I hope to read more on this subject.

    I thought I was an IPPS because I had a decent golden period, but it’s clear that I was an IPSS instead. It’s strange because I was devalued and then shelved and given breadcrumbs. I checked one of your IPSS articles and it seems like the IPSS is not devalued. It’s also strange because he had another IPSS and she definitely wasn’t devalued like I was and they became good friends while I had my golden period. I was tested a lot about being his girlfriend, like I was auditioning for the role. He asked me lots of questions and even told me what he expected of his girl(buying him stuff included). Maybe I became a candidate IPSS and then demoted for the current woman which is now his IPPS(They live together/he posted her on social media). hmm…

  6. Asp Emp says:

    This video is about intimate relationships & explains the whys / whats / hows / whens of the behaviours of narcissists.

    The video can also be used when it comes to needing to understand how some friends may behave and give understanding on how you can make the friendship work, if you really wish to maintain the friendship with that person.

    I have copied and pasted part of my comment from HG’s ‘Can I Control The Narcissist?’.

    “I have friends who I have known years, they don’t have ‘control’ over me, so I have no issues with my friendship with them. At the same time, I would not even call them out for being a narcissist (because they may not even be aware, so it would be unfair to do so). To me, this proves, that it is possible to have narcissists in your life and get on with them, giving them their ‘space’ when they need it.“

    1. Eternity says:

      When looking back in my life I was surrounded with Narcissists. Now when I notice them even a friend of family member I say to myself no space needed see ya later Alligator.
      I do see your point though .

      1. Asp Emp says:

        Thank you. We do have to ‘share’ the planet with narcissists – they are human too (just misunderstood by the majority of people).

        1. Eternity says:

          True we do, they are still human beings and live on this earth.

          1. A Victor says:

            Asp Emp and Eternity, yes. And I’ve wondered, if everyone went GOSO, that would seem unfair, who would love them then? But, knowing what I know now, even with a fantastic and extended golden period, it would likely still not be worth it. Very sad. It feels very hopeless.

          2. Eternity says:

            A Victor, I feel bad for them. It is not their fault. They do need love,need to be cared for etc.I have taken care of my N for years and I did it with all my heart because I loved him and I wanted to do all this. Unfortunately when someone doesnt feel the same way it is pointless. You dont feel appreciated and all your years have gone to waste. It is very sad and a shame.

          3. A Victor says:

            Eternity, you know what you’ve done for him, and why, and you can feel good about that. That makes it not a waste in your case. I guess for those of us who are not currently involved with a narcissist it is a different matter, I will try very hard to not become involved with one again now that I know what I know. I don’t think I could do what you’re doing out of love, it is commendable. Though, had my ex not left, who knows where we’d be, I did love him enough I think. I feel bad for them too.

          4. Eternity says:

            A Victor,
            I will never change myself even though I was with a N. I still have a lot of love to give but with someone that will actually want to be with me.
            Hopefully we wont be involved with another one in the future. Fingers crossed.
            I completely understand how you feel.

          5. A Victor says:

            Oh no, Eternity, I didn’t mean to imply changing, I’m sorry if you read it that way. I don’t want to change who I am either, except to become more knowledgeable and make wiser choices going forward. And I think I misunderstood, I thought you were still with your “N”. I agree, hoping we can find someone who can love us back.

          6. Eternity says:

            A Victor, no worries it’s ok I didn’t take it that way at all. We change who we are just like the Narcs can’t change who they are .
            Making wiser choices in the future for sure
            If we don’t find someone who can love us back it’s ok too.

          7. Another Cat says:


            “If we don’t find someone who can love us back it’s ok too. ”

            So wise I almost cried. xo

          8. Eternity says:

            Another Cat,

            Oh boy I hope you didn’t cry because I will cry with you sniff sniff.

          9. A Victor says:

            AC, Eternity, no please don’t cry! I’ve cried enough for all three of us in the last week. That line is profound Eternity, thank you!

          10. Eternity says:

            Awww no problem. Big hugs to you xoxo. P.S. dont listen to any love songs they make crying worse.
            I listened to Kelly Clarkson – Stronger,Since you’ve been gone and think positive. No more Lionel Ritchie.

          11. A Victor says:

            Ok Eternity, no love songs, thank you for the tip!

          12. Eternity says:

            No problem A Victor and no sad movies either.

          13. A Victor says:

            Okay, no sad movies! I just found my Bourne dvds, buried since we moved, I’ll crack those out this weekend. 🙂

          14. HG Tudor says:

            DVDs? Nobody watches those anymore.

          15. Eternity says:

            Maybe we can watch VHS then ha ha

          16. HG Tudor says:

            I have already returned my video tapes.

          17. Eternity says:

            I didn’t know Blockbuster was still open.

          18. HG Tudor says:

            Yes, in Bend Oregon, but it is a real fucker getting those video tapes back before a fine is incurred.

          19. Eternity says:

            Ha ha I bet HG, just drop them off in the drop box and run!

          20. Eternity says:

            Just drop them off in the drop box and run !

          21. HG Tudor says:

            I am not Mid-Range.

          22. Eternity says:

            That I know clearly HG, perhaps The Ultra will drop it off in person since you are a gentleman right .

          23. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Eternity, the return of the video tapes is a recurrent thought the protagonist, Patrick Bateman, has in American Psycho. HG proves to be more organized than Pat since he already returned his haha.

          24. HG Tudor says:


          25. Eternity says:

            Ok thank you SP now I know what movie I am going to watch this weekend.

          26. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Omg I can’t watch the movie. I read the novel, which is absolutely brilliant though there were some chapters I had trouble finishing too.

          27. Eternity says:

            I dont like horror movies but I know it is one of HG’s favourites so I will watch it. I didn’t realize there was a Novel. Maybe I will read it. I dont really like watching horror movies. They completely freak me out and give me nightmares. Lets see if I can last watching the movie without turning it off.

          28. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Good luck. At least Christian Bale is extremely handsome in it.

          29. Eternity says:

            Yes he is! I actually going to watch it right now. SP you must be physic I think.

          30. Sweetest Perfection says:

            You can send me a telepathic signal when the gore show starts and you get freaked out.

          31. Eternity says:

            SP, this guy is nuts ! Killing everyone and gets a kick out of it. Poor homeless man. OMG killed the poor woman he had sex with. I cant watch anymore. Killed his so called friend. I will never listen to Huey Lewis and News the same way or the other songs on the soundtrack.
            I do recognize where it was filmed though

          32. Sweetest Perfection says:

            The soundtrack is awesome.

          33. Eternity says:

            Love it!

          34. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Dang you’re too fast, you stole my joke.

          35. HG Tudor says:

            I think you mean MY joke.

          36. Eternity says:

            Of course HG it was your joke who can forget.

          37. Sweetest Perfection says:


          38. Eternity says:

            A Victor good idea! Enjoy !

          39. A Victor says:

            Hahahaha, I still use dvds. But I own them so no returning. That said, there are still a couple local places to rent them from. I will be sad when my dvd player dies, end of an era.

          40. Eternity says:

            I know nothing wrong with that I still have some Box Collections that I watch. Especially 80’s sitcoms. I think my Wedding Video is on a CD but I think I will burn that one. I will keep my DVD Player though..

          41. A Victor says:

            Me too Eternity! That one’s been on my list, though I hope Netflix has it as I don’t have it on a dvd. 😂

          42. Eternity says:

            I waiting for Virgin River Season two on Netflix cant wait .

  7. Another Cat says:

    I’d like to thank you, HG, for phrasing the title exactly like this.

    Other dating coaches give several different advice on it, which is NOT about immediately leaving this person and cut off contact.

    This way, this very very oft googled question is directed at the very best information.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Indeed. Dating coaches know sweet fuck all.

      1. Eternity says:

        HG, I have.never heard of a dating coach before . The Narcissist will probably end up being the coach, and guiding people in the wrong direction,just like some of these dating sites.

        1. HG Tudor says:


          1. Eternity says:

            Thank you

        2. Another Cat says:

          I have only read their advice on their dating blogs. Haven’t tried any consultation, but it all seems wee expensive.

          The coaches/youtubers who are unwitting narcissists? Are quite easy to spot for a seasoned Tudorite. First: an energetic stare. The Mid Midranger Type A stare. And: When they describe the interactions we should have on a date, it is very very detailed and calculated,

          they don’t notice this about themselves,

          but the interactions they describe sound tiresome for us non-manipulators. I can’tkeep up when reading. Oh, then I should just look down and say that, but don’t mention… Oh and my hair should look exactly like that, oh. And to test him throw in this question:…. And then throw in:….

          After which the unwitting narc coach concludes:

          “As a woman you don’t have to do anything but smile and show up!”

          There she contradicted herself.

          I feel a bit sorry for some youtubers who don’t realize that they reveal themselves.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Good observations.

          2. Eternity says:

            I totally agree with you on this one.

    2. lickemtomorrow says:

      Well said, AC, and I agree. More often you will see the question phrased as “Why won’t he commit?”

      HGs piece is the best I’ve come across as it goes beyond the question of commitment and refines the situation even more. Especially as it relates to the narcissist.

      The phrasing is everything here so hats off to HG again.

  8. leelasfuelstinks says:

    I have no idea how many narcs I met in my life but I remember how defiance and pride kicked in everytime a guy behaved like this or in a similar way. Long time I thought it was me who was the problem and felt ashemed for my reactions. In fact, it´s a self-defense mechanism! And a GOOD THING! Instead of feeling bad for it, now I feel PROUD!

    Nothing against a good kick-ass menu with revenge ribs and fearless fries 😉
    (I LOVE those terms)

  9. Claire says:

    Such an outstanding video! I had a short lived ‘ almost’ relationship ( hate this Millennials’ terminology) and it was like driving through a roundabout with no exit.
    I do remember driving back home after very romantic and passionate night. As far as I started the engine I realised that I need to walk out. Not being familiar with HG’s work yet, I had no idea with whom I was dealing with and being a truth seeker I explained why I am ending the relationship, asked what went wrong, apologised if I did something wrong. A silent treatment for a week from Mr Narc , profound statements that he was not seeing anyone else and other bulls***.

    HG, could you please provide your brilliant insights about the modern dating slang like benching, cushioning, stashing? By memory, another reader asked you on YouTube and I am sure many readers would like to know.
    No doubts, those terms indicate narcissistic behavioural patterns ( I am thinking about your brilliant material Shelf Life/ Black or White) and so many individuals, especially among the younger generations are blinded that those behaviours are normal and even cool.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you. Your suggestions are in the pipeline.

      1. Claire says:

        Great! Thank you very much HG!

    2. Leolita says:

      This one is priceless. Spot on.

  10. leelasfuelstinks says:

    Perfectly explained! What a jerk-behaviour! 🙁

    Interestingly, exactly THIS behavior makes me !!!!EXTREMELY AGGRESSIVE!!!!

    Everytime, I experienced this behavior with “my” narcs, I LASHED OUT!!!

    I instinctively !!!!!! LASH OUT !!!!!!

  11. JB says:

    Wow, what an eye-opener. My narcissist never seemed to lay his cards on the table properly, but would make random shy-sounding statements which gave the impression he was just a bit uncomfortable saying how he felt. And though he was the one who suggested stopping things (which I agreed was probably a good idea, namely because I had realised all wasn’t quite right, although I didn’t tell him that was why I agreed), he then claimed to be heartbroken and acted as if I had been the one doing the discarding! Any attempt to talk through any of this was refused, and I was pretty much told I had tainted things beyond repair, but he wouldn’t say how I had ruined things when asked to (which I hadn’t, I had merely asked a few questions about why he had been giving me silent treatments and claiming to be broken when he had been merrily engaging with other women at the same time.)

Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

Previous article

Can I Control the Narcissist?