Vent your spleen. Have your say. Give us both barrels. Let us know what you really think. Such sentiments towards my kind are entirely understandable and they invariably occur post discard and sometimes post escape. There are differing rationales associated with this almost overwhelming need to speak to us about your experience of being entangled with our kind. 1. Anger. You realise how you have been manipulated, abused and taken for a fool. Your anger is substantial and you feel a pressing need to unleash that anger against us with a litany of insults and some choice language. 2. Enlightenment. You have had your epiphany and realised precisely what ensnared you, how it happened and why. You have seized this knowledge and now feel elated that you have done so. There is a sense of superiority in finally having all the pieces of the puzzle click into place and you want to confront us. You may not actually tell us what we are but you will certainly want to use the words, “I know what you are now.” 3. Unfinished Business Part One. Nearly all discards occur without you being told that the Formal Relationship is over and if you are given such notice you are rarely given any proper or adequate explanation as to why this has happened. This results in the need to confront us at a later stage in order to try to find out why what has happened, has happened. 4. Unfinished Business Part Two. This is akin to the situation above but the basis of this confrontation is in order to demand of us how we could do what we did and address your need to have us explain ourselves for what we did during the relationship. 5. To Understand. You do not know what you were entangled with and you are unable to comprehend how somebody could behave in that manner towards you after everything that you did for us. This tirade details all of the help you gave us, the advantages that you conferred on us and each and every thing you did for us in the name of love. 6. Clear the Smear. Predictably enough, you will have been smeared following your entanglement with us. You have heard all about the lies that have been peddled about you and you want to set us straight about how those comments were wrong, that you did not behave in the manner which we have described to other people and ultimately how you need to clear your name. 7. The Right to Be Heard. You have a significant desire to want to be heard, especially as our manipulation of your will have caused you to feel that you have not been listened to during the Formal Relationship. You want your voice to be heard, you need to articulate your thoughts and feelings and an opportunity to avail yourself of discharging this need is too good to pass up. 8. Convey the Pain. You remain horrendously wounded by your experience of being entangled with us and you want to let us know how badly we hurt you, how much it pains you still and how upset you are to have been treated this way. 9. Sing the Praises. Sometimes you exhibit a capacity for nobility which manages to transcend the hurt, the pain and the angry. You remain bewitched by the golden period and all those magnificent attributes that you believe we still possess and therefore rather than attack us, expound bitterness or lash out, you declare all the reasons why you still love us, why you find us mesmerising despite what has happened and you wish us well for the future. 10. Justice. It is only right that are given the right of reply to the treatment that has been meted out against you. 11. Medicine. You put up with the tantrums, the lengthy invectives, the oral onslaughts and you were pummelled by our words. Now it is the time to give us a taste of our own medicine. Whatever the motivation may be, your need and desire to have that final confrontation with us, to purge yourself of all those thoughts and considerations is huge and is very difficult for you to resist. Indeed, most of the time you do not resist it at all, instead you look to engineer situations whereby you are able to speak to us and deliver this tirade, this riposte, this howitzer. You will seek us out in order to provide us with a piece of your mind. Is this a good thing? Well, there are two potential upsides when this is looked at from your perspective. The first is that you are able to get things off your chest. All those thoughts which have whirled around your mind for weeks on end, the ifs and buts which prevented you from sleeping, the imponderables and the unanswered have been released as you allow your words to explode from you in an outburst of emotion applicable to whichever rationale which has driven you to this point. The second is that you may well feel that you have achieved some kind of closure by engaging in this step of giving us a piece of your mind. But what about our perspective on all of this? What does this blast, this sounding off and this diatribe mean to us? This is where giving a piece of your mind in such a manner is actually not a good thing for you to do. Why is this? 1. Sounding off in such an emotional manner, whether it is insulting us with angry words, crying with pain, savagely mauling us with a sneering and twisted face or even expressing how you still love us, just provides us with fuel and it is plentiful. You may have collared us on the telephone to vent at us. Anybody normal would end the call as they are repeatedly harangued and insulted, but not us, we will listen as we soak up all that fuel. Yes, we will be argumentative, defensive and belligerent but that is just to keep your tirade going owing to the plentiful fuel you are providing to us. 2. This is a prime opportunity for us to hoover you. If we see you are angry, we may express false contrition, if you are hurt and upset we may declare how we will make changes so everything is right, if you reminisce about our wonderful times we will offer that golden period again to you. You are giving us a glorious opportunity to hoover you and in your heightened emotional state there is a good chance this will succeed. 3. If we do not hoover at this point, you have just given us several reasons to execute a hoover at a later juncture by confirming to us that you remain adrift in the emotional state, you are fountaining with fuel and still beholden to us. The signs are good and it all points to a successful hoover in the near future. 4. You confirm to us that you have failed to grasp the logic and reason of the situation and therefore your defences are weak. This means that further manipulations can be used and they will prove effective in terms of fuel and control. 5. We take no notice of what you are actually saying. You may think that your speech is devastating, that you are landing telling blows on us, that you are assassinating our character and making us look terrible. You are not. You are playing into our hands. We are laughing at you inside. 6. You are confirming that we continue to have considerable control over you. We may be busy with a new primary source but this confirmation acts as a green light to further unleashing of manipulations against you because you are not able to let go. The temptation to give us a piece of your mind is vast and overwhelming but if done in the usual emotional fashion of the typical empathic individual you are just giving us more of what we want, failing to hurt us and extending your own entanglement with us.
80 thoughts on “Sounding Off”
I find this thread disappointingly true to form for the term “self styled empaths”
The clinical world the person in question provided is very interesting to some, esp because he who must not be named readily offered science to support his information- always referenced actual credible research studies & other literature , from current leaders in the psychology field from all the way from Freud to Theodore Milan , and incorporated philosophers from Dostoyevsky to Descartes, and everyone in between- which can then be looked into to grow our knowledge base and help our little narc addled brains .
I think the he appeals to the more scientific minded , as I didn’t find him boring at all, I appreciated the education to take forward with me into the psychology field- REALLY gave me a head start , as I now have shit tons of clinical studies& trials to reference and a good scientific grasp on BPD, codependency, and more as well as information about narcissism I can back up legitimately.
That’s an unfortunate thing here- bc HG is anonymous, we can’t make much of a dent in the scientific academic community with his wealth of knowledge, Quite the loss.
However it was K who really turned me on to the idea of needing evidence- that helped me lower my ET and question the credentials and position of anyone producing psychologically related material. It’s a bit of a bubble popper but ultimately very helpful.
Oh, and since the unnamed one threw a hissy fit and flounced – I’m gonna guess MG
Edit: Theodore MILLON ffs
PS I’m not questioning HG’s work.
Incredibly useful and insightful.
I like this.
I can’t understand why anyone who knowingly knows they are a narcissist doesn’t want to do the work to leave such negativity and abuse behind. What a terrible way to live, to enjoy gaining at the expense of others, to intentionally hurt and abuse others. All narcs, whether aware or not, are essentially not good people. Chronic liars, cheaters, lack of loyalty, disrespect of others boundaries, manipulators, controllers. Horrible.
We empaths win when we research and learn about the narcissist we have dealt with, and the resulting knowledge is our closure. We understand you were never going to give us closure, all part of your ammo. But then once we learn, we realize narcissists are sooooo predictable. Once we let go, amazing opportunities open up to us, and our journeys you can never be part of. We are capable of love, empathy, and goodness. When we rise, we lift others, but when a narc rises, they tread on others around them, which is why they usually have a spectacular fall, when the truth comes to light.
Massive success… yes, after finishing with one of you, our massive success is the ultimate injury to a narcissist. We don’t have to do anything to you except be successful for ourselves, have great lives and amazing people around us, and ignore you. Where we are able to arrive at a point where we no longer want anything to do with our abuser and know that our past abuser offers nothing good, we can ignore the hoovers, and move forward in life with discernment about who we trust. To continue any entanglement with a narc means foregoing an amazing future.
Maybe your purpose in our lives was for us to learn a lesson, and make us stronger. With stronger empaths, and super empaths, once we have learned who you are and understand the lesson you brought to us, we realize you have no more purpose in our lives. You may bring a little knowledge, but mostly you bring meanness and negativity to everything you touch. It’s a karmic world and the universe gives back to you what you have given out. Most people with NPD have such bad karma. Look at all the narcissists falling by the wayside now. I wouldn’t want the karma that’s going to inevitably visit a narcissist. I say this to all narcs….. karma doesn’t have a deadline, and she’s coming, best believe.
Good Night and Good Luck from Minnie and Me. Have you seen it. So many cloaked digs and I’m only 15 mins in!
I half feel sad for the guy. Then I remember the comments re empaths and their non existence. Most of me therefore says, “Bye bye now!”
Bad empath. Go stand in the corner …..
I have no idea what you are referring to, TS.
Sam V YouTube goodbye video.
Is that a children’s channel?
Not anymore it’s not!
It’s a channel featuring a man unfortunate of face (HG’s term) and bereft of humour that issues endless streams clinical information that is conducive to sleep rather than education.
Sounds excruciating, best stay tuned to Tudor TV.
A narcissist saying goodbye? Narcissists are not quitters!
I say it’s future faking and there will be a hoover. Not for me of course because I am total no contact where he is concerned.
I raised the question in another thread the other day about ‘experts’ on narcissism abandoning ship after piggybacking off the issue for the last several years. I never expected SV to be one of those, and have never taken to his work, but I’m very surprised to see it all the same. Narcissists, it seems, may no longer be the flavour of the month. Or SV has lost the taste for what he was doing. Deja vu in some ways for me. And I did suggest it’s likely they wouldn’t do it unless they were a narcissist 😛 I wonder how his ‘fans’ are feeling about that? Discarded, I guess.
Regarding the “nonexistence” of empaths.
The unmentioned explains that “real highly sensitive persons, HSP (That’s 20 % of humans, accordingly to scientific publications, probably referring to empaths, and I believe HG’s number – 25% – is the true percentage) don’t frequent forums and social media, because they are so sensitive.”
The youtuber thinks ppl claiming to be empaths are actually narcissists.
Well, HG has explained this. There are many Mid Midranger narcissists claiming to be empaths. There is an energetic stare from the eyes on profile photos which reveals many of them. But there are indeed true empaths too out there on forums. This youtuber fails to notice them because of all the screaming narcs.
HG, Truthseeker6157 is referring to a video from Sam Vaknin where he states he will not make any more videos. I skimmed it. It is a very long-winded hour long and starts with talk about glass being liquid. Very confusing.
What is a “Sam Vaknin”?
HG can you do an article on SV one day. Please, please, please. I’d love to know exactly what he is. I presume cerebral just unsure on the school. I can’t make my mind up on whether he is greater or mid who thinks he is. He clearly has some awareness but why would a greater come out publicly?
No idea who you are referring to.
Well if you do ever remember, it would make an excellent read and bring any of his few remaining followers over to your camp too, I’m sure of it.
I cannot remember something I did not know about to being with.
Aaaaaaaggggggghhhhhhh bloody Ns and denial!
I’d be happy to introduce the two of you if you like?
I see no need of that, thank you.
Is that because really you’re the same person?
Don’t be silly.
Alexissmith2016, I watched one of his videos the other day, just to see who he was after people kept mentioning him. I didn’t like him very much, I must say. He was very wordy, a bit too academic sounding, and I didn’t like how he responded to some of the viewer comments either.
S.V’s channel is black and white analog to HG’s 8K ULTRA with it’s dynamic range of colour, sound, and content. That channel is so antiquated and boring that it has been rendered obsolete by it’s own creator.
I was too quick to judge and take that back.
His channel is a cardboard puppet theatre next to The Ultra.
A “Sam Vaknin” is a mythical creature with a thoroughly unpleasant voice. According to the old tales, if a Vaknin were to be released at the same time the Sirens were attempting to lure Odysseus’ men off the ship, any sailors whose earplugs fell out would start back-stroking and reverse swan-dive back into the ship. Meanwhile, Odysseus, who had asked to be lashed to the mast so he could hear without being able to go to the death to which the Sirens would draw him, would be begging his crew to shove chopsticks in his ears.
Homer decided not to include this legend in his version, because there was too much violence already.
I am obliged, this accords with the rumours that fall upon my ears.
Odie! This is how I got through my NC before I knew of HG. I tied my cute 🍑 to the mast and held on for my life.
He is a cerebral Greater, I remember HG answering this in one of his Q&A’s
I’m not sure what level of greater though
I had a listen. The first SV video that I have tried to listen to…How can anyone tolerate being spoken to like that to get to the information? I got to the 12:22 mark and I was like, yes “Bye-bye”, cause this was the first and last SV video I will investigate.
The most interesting thing was about glass.
Beats me, WhoCares.
I was ok with the guy, just got tired of all that you mention and phased out of watching back in anno domini 2017, for the love of god and the universe.
HG’s work has spoiled me for its quality and accuracy.
It wouldn’t help any even if SV could manage to squeeze out an ounce of charm or eloquence. And those qualities come naturally to HG.
Not much point in going elsewhere for information on Narcissism; I would be hung up on whatever flaws I perceived in their theories.
I found SV boring and sleazy, not much info mixed in with all the words. But I only watched a few minutes once.
The Hg Tudor rant video from “acclaimed” empath.
Sam Vaknin quit his YouTube channel
Oh you do make me laugh sometimes.
Really? There was nothing more to say? I’m surprised.
Hey TS. I’m ‘nudging’…. what’s that about “bad empath – go & stand in corner” and “most of me – bye bye”….. is it a film you’re observing? x
I was referring to a You Tube commenter who recently released his final video about narcissism. I watched the video and decided it contained cloaked reference to HG. Coincidence that the pity playesque departure comes a week after HG storms back onto YouTube with the Ultra channel? No. Permanent departure? I give him 6 months.
Part of me thinks it is a loss as another voice educating about narcissism has to be a good thing. However, this commenter negates the existence of empaths as essentially ‘attention seekers’. This does not help the overall cause when we consider which group is both targeted and most damaged by narcissists. So this irritated me. I found it obstructive. I found it dismissive. I believe it is factually incorrect.
All things considered, my ET reacted to the pity play. My LT said, ‘Now hold on one goddamn minute TS. This guy actually wasn’t helping, but instead was using his channel as a form of unrelatable academic masturbation.’
Seriously, I don’t need to see that. Therefore, I agree, who?
My many sources advised me that the individual who I know not of had posted a video making a declaration of departure, then a few days later returned with another video, which was taken down and then reinstated again referencing a departure. Ah, the old “I am going” and then the “No, I am REALLY going this time (because nobody reacted).” I have seen that occur here very occasionally too.
Really?! That is a bit funny though isn’t it? If I had any idea who you were talking about, I would say that his narcissism showing itself is far more interesting than any of his videos.
If I had any notion to whom you were referring, I would agree that that manifestation is more interesting that what is being said.
I put SV under a strict NC regime looong ago, so what he does or doesn’t do is indifferent to me. But that sounds terribly familiar, I wonder where I saw that behavior before, mmmm: “Friends, I’m taking a hiatus from Facebook…” -posted only two days before the lamentable, extremely predictable return. Hahaha I love these “please pay attention to me” threats!
‘The individual who I know not of’, oh god you do make me laugh HG
I am obliged to see you have finally addressed me correctly after “oh”.
Ok. Thank you for explaining.
What on earth possessed you to even watch this pr**k’s video in the first place? Where is your ‘allegiance’ to HG? Naughty girl! 😉
Indeed. There will be visits made in the dead of night for people to be escorted for Intensive Allegiance Re-Programming.
Cover of darkness eh? Can’t catch me in the day. Too quick now!
Hope you like bats 😉
Only deep fried. Like my Mars Bars!
LOL. On a serious note, when I got home from shopping on Saturday (it has got dark by then & had been a warm day) – a bat flew over my car then stuck itself on the wall of the house before flying off, I was gobsmacked as they are normally hibernating from October….
Have to say Asp, I find bats calming. I love the dark and night time hours. I like being up while everyone else sleeps. I walk the dog at night too, that’s when I usually see the bats, they come in close as well sometimes.
Weirdest thing was in the US. I walked at night there too. There was a family of deer that would show up at the bottom of the garden each night as I left with the dog. I would stop, the dog eventually would sit and we would just watch each other in silence. Deer are beautiful creatures I think. They have a knowingness about them, strange feeling.
Totally agree about the bats and the deer (in USA)! Ground squirrels in USA – unbelievable & so cute – obviously curious about people – or was it my empathic nature they were attracted to? 😉
I think there is an element of truth in that. I think animals are very good judges of character. Any animal goes to my dad. The force is strong in him! Same with me, though I see him on an entirely different level. I wonder sometimes how he would come out on the TDC. I think he would be shockingly high on empathic traits and a little lower than me on the narcissistic traits. That said, I’m likely to pedestal him somewhat, his own TDC might be quite different to the one I would submit for him. It is interesting to ponder empathic lineage sometimes.
Well, I have never really had an animal that didn’t relax when I held them ie guinea-pigs, dogs (cannot always hold the larger breeds!!), loads of animals. It’s people that are different – because animals don’t hold grudges etc. Thinking about guinea-pigs, I really would not mind having a couple of them right now to cuddle and snuzzle up to. I used to have a chinchilla too! Absolutely fab characters, made me laugh – quirky and finicky but my one used to squeak when I got home from work – I’d make a cuppa and let him out to run around and he’d climb up onto my lap or on the armchair. Ah, bless, animals are so much easier than people at times!! 😉
That’s because they operate off instinct. Humans have too many distractions. Too much information to filter I think.
The narc thought I was unobservant. Things I would miss as we were walking and talking. I’m not unobservant, I’m just concentrating on very different things.
You do talk sense – instincts & animals – correct. Humans, hmm, another matter…. I no longer have “too many distractions”. You’re not going around wearing ‘blinkers’ either x
“The narc thought I was unobservant.”
Yeo, that’s what they think when they devalue us.
Back in the day of the golden period it was all “Oh you’re so clever! You noticed all these things today. I love your philosophy.”
I admit though, as you convey, that the details narcs are focused on, I often miss out.
At that start, you are “the one they had been looking for all their life”….. until we go then they realise that we leave an empty space when we DO go (for a few days at least then the narcissists move on to the next ‘prey’)……
Yep that makes sense. Can do no wrong at the start. In fairness the unobservant comment was made when I stepped out into the road and he pulled me back. He was laughing when he said it.
My golden period was a strange one really. I don’t recall him ever complimenting me directly. It was done in a matter of fact way almost as if I should know.
A very poor example would be something along the lines of, “You wouldn’t struggle to find something to wear, because you look good in everything.” It never came across as a compliment, it was more a biased statement, mixed in to the rest of the conversation.
He might just have worked out that I’m not really a hearts and flowers type. I’m quite happy to tease and be teased. I’m northern so teasing shows I like you. (maybe this is why I’m reasonably narc proof) I’m more comfortable being sarcastic.
It was a very strange set up from the get go. Now I know everything was just the need for control so look at it differently, but as an unaware narc I’m curious as to what he actually thought he was doing, what he actually believed the point of it was.
He did get me right about one thing though. He did say early on, I was about the chase. I am a bit, hate to admit it but I can be. My pride was badly hurt with him as much as the sadness and loss if I’m honest. The one who got away ha ha.
“I’m more comfortable being sarcastic.” – me too! 😉
Asp, Just an aside. ‘The Rubber Chicken’ made an appearance in one of HG’s videos on Ultra Channel.
Oh, yes? Wonder what’s it doing in there – god, I’ll never forget reading that particular article and just those words that did not ‘quite’ fit – I couldn’t stop laughing at the time. Still amuses me now 🙂
I know who you are…;*
I know who you are. ;*
I always thought their reactions to my furious outbursts (Geyser) were way too calm. Now I know why.
It is so strange when I’m all worked up and the narcissist just sits there watching, or in the case of the one last summer, listening. I never knew why, now I do.
This really trips me up. I got yelled at for half an hour during this event, saying “I know you’ve told me already how awful a person I am. I don’t need to keep hearing it over and over!” Literally yelling, going on and on about how I’m insulting his character etc. I was just on the other end of the phone thinking wtf is wrong with this person. We hadn’t even spoken in months, thanks to his effective silent treatment, yet he acted like I had been telling him every day how cruel he was. Apparently I wasn’t allowed to say anything twice, ever, if it was something he disagreed with. MIND BOGGLING.
There is no point to give the narcissist a piece of my mind. It is not as though things would improve and the narcissist would use the situation as an opportunity to continue with manipulations.
December Infinity, this was my thought. And that if I got going I might never stop. And that it would only serve to upset me to do so. But I had a high ET day, it might be different in a different day.
HG, I feel nothing but sadness. I see the abuse. I have been injured. I see him. With your education and a bit from others, I allowed him back for 6 months but not in my trust but to confirm. I saw a broken human. I know not how to fix him. You say it is impossible but he is his worst enemy. I watched the fury, the flying monkeys, the projection, the games and when he felt I was not looking the inner turmoil as he needed attention or “ fuel” and I did not really react… He left. Silent treatment is nothing if you understand it and are immune. I never told him I knew. If I never hear from him again and I will no doubt…I pray for him. I have no urge to contact him but I wish him well. My sound off is I wish the end of narcissism. I will not injure myself anymore trying to understand, help or even bargain. But I won’t stop praying for his soul. I felt his torment. When he left, and he blames me but perhaps he is right as I gave little fuel, I felt peace. My home is stable again. Calm. Quiet. Sometimes too quiet. I miss his charm but it is not worth the chaos or the effect it has on my nervous system. The constant presence and need. The demands. The eggshells you walk just to have peace. But no… I love him for who he is. But I let go. God take mercy on his soul. Weaponized? Educated? Defeated?
I must add. I also forgave my brother who was ensnared. My husband kept telling me that my own brother wrote an email about me to him. My brother apparently accused me of killing my father he said. My husband was going to share this with others in his coterie. I was hurt. My father died of cancer. We were very close. My father was an empath. Very loving. I was the last to speak to this gentle loving man when he died in hospice at 64. I knew what happened. I wrote my brother and told him that I knew about the email but did not blame him. I blamed my husband. I said to my brother that having only met my husband once that he could not understand. I asked him to respect me and have no further contact. I told him that I loved him as he was my little brother. Today my brother and I seem to be good. My husband lives in the UK. I protected my finances with HG ‘s help. It is only a marriage of paper that I will handle in time. I share this to help others. HG is knowledgeable and helped me.
Ok one last thing. When the mask is off… you see desperation … plots and plans, lies and misguided anger, distance and no connection…and you feel inside their longing or emptiness. It has a cold feel almost like a death. Your instinct is to want to love them like a feral kitten hoping to fill this void. I never could. I tried. So I released it to God. If he was dying, I would come to the hospital and hold his hand. If he were homeless, I would help him get shelter away from me. If he died, I would pray. But my life is my life. He holds no place in the living of it.