Stargazing With the Shieldmaiden



The Shieldmaiden and me journeyed into the countryside recently. It was a jamboree of navy blue, green and sky blue, with the magnificent countryside all around us. There was nobody to see and nobody to see us. The only sound was that of the beck rushing by our lodge and even that was muted when we rounded the bend from our sanctuary in the mountains.

The cloudless sky that had embraced an unseasonably warm day remain unblemished as night arrived. Following a satisfying dinner, The Shieldmaiden and me extinguished every electric light, lantern and candle at the lodge and then ventured outside as our eyes adjusted to the darkness. The moon was low to the east, having just ventured beyond the horizon and the tree line beneath it, its milky pallor not able to impact substantially on the cloak of darkness which now enveloped everything around us.

We stepped onto the extensive veranda which surrounds our lodge and then lay down on our backs side by side as we looked upwards to the wheeling heavens. The evening air was cool, but not frigid and all that could be heard was the gurgling of the beck a little distance away. The birds and animals had fallen silent and the harsh sound of humankind was absent from this haven. No horns, no engines, no sirens.


As we lay there, the vastness of space loomed over us. The shimmering stars from light years away glinted and sparkled for us. Thousands of them, clear and visible, since not only were we free of the noise of humankind but we had been spared the polluting effect of thousands of streetlights and the glow cast from tens of thousands of windows by lamplight, screen glow and flashing neon. The night sky was untainted by the construct of humanity and instead hung over us as it has done for billions of years prior to our appearance.

The Shieldmaiden said nothing. I remained silent as I lay there and stared up at the sky. Ursa Major was immediately apparent and within it The Plough or as our transatlantic friends would label it, The Big Dipper. My eyes lowered and I looked upon the constellations of Leo and the Lynx which nestled beneath the large bear. As I turned my head I could see the Milky Way, like some stellar smear across the centre of the sky, ranging across nearly the whole of my field of vision as I looked across tens of thousands of light years of space from my vantage point on the top of this mountain.

I thought of how I was able to see all of this from my position on the rooftop of the region and that far away and far below me scurried the minions, the underlings and the tertiaries and how unaware they were of the brilliance and majesty which spiralled above them. I felt a sneer of contempt form on my lips as I contemplated the ignorant hordes who would be staring at pavement, turf and foam rather than lifting their heads and drinking in this vista. ´Twas ever thus. They always look the wrong way. That is why they never see me coming. Even those that broke with convention and rejected a lifetime of shoe-staring would only see a tiny fragment of what The Shieldmaiden and me were looking at. They would, if fortunate, see some of the stars, maybe a part of a constellation but their view would be obscured by the light pollution, ruining the spectacle and reinforcing the fact that they would go through life without true vision and clarity. My thoughts of their frustration and resentment if they were told of what they were missing caused that pulse of power as the Thought Fuel arrived, landing on the far more potent and plentiful Proximate Fuel which The Shieldmaiden had been providing throughout our visit.

“It is truly spectacular,” said the Shieldmaiden softly besides me. Her clear and elegant voice gently intruding into my contempt-filled thoughts and scattering them. The dispersal of those thoughts however was rapidly followed by that sharp shard of envy for she was commenting on the stars and heavens above, her fuel was directed elsewhere and whilst her tone was that of admiration and delight and her words appreciative, they were not aimed at me. This was a waste. Yet this was not the occasion to bridle with her, not at all. Her fuel needed to be mine, but I would not lash out, there was no need.

“Yes it is, absolutely majestic,” I replied as I readied my comment to draw fuel from her.

“And can you see Jupiter? Over there. Can you see that bright “star” that is Jupiter, to the south-west,” I explained and raised a hand, extending a finger pointing to the giant of our solar system.

“Where is it please?” she asked and I felt the flames of fuel rising again as her words of enquiry directed  to me, because of me and I sat up.

“Sit between my legs,” I instructed and she too sat up and shuffled into position, her back pressing against my chest, the outside of her thighs, brushing against the inside of mine. I placed my chin on her shoulder, the light fragrance of her shampoo detectable from her long, blonde hair and I raised my arm around her.

“Follow my finger,” I said and waited as I pointed to Jupiter.

“Ah, yes I see it. I love how you know what is where in the sky, but you have always loved the stars and planets haven’t you?”

The positive fuel splashed over me.

“Oh yes, ” I confirmed edified by her validation of my direction and her remembrance of what I had told her previously.

I felt her lean back into me and I recognised that this once again signalled her ease and comfort with me. I felt the instinctive bristle against this closeness but the presence of her fuel enable it be surmounted and I allowed the contact to continue.

“And now, if you follow my finger, I will take you to Saturn,” I explained. She gave a short, warm laugh at my interplanetary finger and more fuel washed over me.

“You should bring your telescope next time, HG, so we can see the moons and rings,” she suggested.

“Absolutely,” I answered.

We both fell silent as I lowered my arm and she remained still, nestled between my legs and leaning against me. She moved slightly, as if to ease herself even closer to me and this act of affection caused once more the fuel to be mine. Her I sat, her god, presiding over the galaxy. Entirely apt.

“What do you feel when you look at this?” she asked me.

I did not answer immediately. This gave the impression of gravitas and due consideration to her question and was a useful collateral consequence of my pause. The fact was that my delay in replying was not borne of conveying such importance, although of course I would claim that it was, but it arose form my consideration as to what to tell her.

Should I substitute knowledge for feeling and allow the literary splendour of my educated mind to fill the gaps occasioned by what I am? Should I plug hole with adjectives and poetic observation? Should I address the chasm with the acquisition of the described feelings provided by others that I had heard, seen and read, claiming them as my own?

Or should I provide my reality?

Should I tell her that my feeling for the vista was as empty as the space between the stars that shone above us? Should I tell her that it was the minions that made me feel, even if only slightly?

Should I tell her why the stars continue to matter to me not because of a feeling, but because of a historic significance or would that shift too much power from me to her?

Should I tell her that it was her that made me feel more than anything – namely power?

84 thoughts on “Stargazing With the Shieldmaiden

  1. December Infinity says:

    Stargazing is fun. Enjoy the silence. Sometimes it is better to say nothing and be in the moment.

    1. Asp Emp says:

      I agree. The ‘silence’ can bring a moment of inner peace – almost. That is why I go into my back garden and look at the stars / moon. No words needed.

  2. Chihuahuamum says:

    How about a mix of all 3. Maybe the fake self becomes an altered real self. I know narcissists claim traits from others as their own but i think people in general have done this as well maybe not to the same extent. I do think this is what makes some narcissists interesting their acquiring of traits. The narc is like this.

  3. FYC says:

    HG, Do any of the Pioneer space probes have anything to do with the aforementioned historical significance?

    I’m sure you are aware on December 21st, 2020, there will be another historically significant celestial event: the conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn, not seen this close since the Middle Ages, approximately 1226. If you take a photo, please share it with us or possibly make it available on Gumroad for purchase!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No, FYC , they do not.

      1. FYC says:

        HG, Thank you. Just to confirm, what of Voyager 1 and 2? Do they have historical significance for you?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No, FYC, they do not.

          1. FYC says:

            HG, Thank you kindly for that confirmation. It must not be a NASA event. The search continues.

  4. BC30 says:

    I have a suspicion that stargazing is a tool often used by Ns. Mine did it. Many of those stars are already dead. It’s always an illusion with them.

  5. Carolina says:

    Such a lovely yet sad scene. You act like such a lovely boyfriend.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Act being the operative word.

  6. Asp Emp says:

    “Or should I provide my reality? Should I tell her why the stars continue to matter to me not because of a feeling, but because of a historic significance or would that shift too much power from me to her? Should I tell her that it was her that made me feel more than anything – namely power?”

    Her perception of may not actually change or how feels for you. Only you can actually answer your own questions here and you have the knowledge to be able to explain it (it is probably only your perception that may ‘change’).

    1. Asp Emp says:

      Just to add – including what I said in ‘Hiding From Yourself’ article – being ‘yourself’ with someone you can trust can be beneficial for you and SM. No need to tell her absolutely everything – just as appropriate. Then, again, I am no expert on relationships!! You’re the expert & have understanding / knowledge on the subject.

    2. WhoCares says:

      Asp Emp,

      “Her perception of may not actually change or how feels for you. Only you can actually answer your own questions here and you have the knowledge to be able to explain it (it is probably only your perception that may ‘change’).”

      It is a very interesting thing to ponder… hypothetically, how could one’s perspective not change? It is really difficult to ‘fake’ a genuine emotional response. Even if she were open to whatever was revealed to her in HG’s explanation – how could it not affect her perspective (even if in the background of her mind)?
      In my experience, once we are on to the fact that someone in our life is a narcissist, and we keep interacting with them, the narcissist cannot quite put their finger on it but they know something is ‘off’ in the empath’s response. The illusion has been seen through somehow.

      I think it is, in part, the genuineness of the emotional response of others that fuels the narcissist and powers the construct. Take that genuineness away and the illusion starts to falter.

      1. Asp Emp says:

        Thank you for your input.

        Some people are actually more ‘receptive’ than other people realise. I know this for a fact because I saw it in a friend’s face when I talked with him about my ‘therapy’ (back in August) I think he doubted it at first but realised that I was talking sense (he has a lot of knowledge on neurological differences – very experienced in communicating with others at all levels – he does accept narcissism exists but hates the ones at work that did what they did to me – he’s not normally a judgmental person, he cares about people and will support someone in need, there is something so ethereal about his wife – an empath I reckon – will talk with her about it sometimes when the damned lockdown / covid is safe enough!).

        Well, maybe I should have been more clear in my original comment. (sorry HG for not making it clear enough). In my view, there is a big difference between psychopathy and narcissism- just like there is a big difference between aspergers and someone who is neurotypical. Anyway, it is not our ‘relationship’ – it is HG’s and hers.

        1. WhoCares says:

          Asp Emp,

          “Anyway, it is not our ‘relationship’ – it is HG’s and hers.”


        2. BC30 says:

          It’s clear you are very knowledgeable having put ‘relationship’ in quotes. You are quite right and I may have overlooked that.

          1. Asp Emp says:

            I appreciate your words, thank you BC30. I can be a smart arse with a smart mouth 😉

      2. A Victor says:

        WhoCares, I hope you are correct about how they respond once we are on to them. I know my mother is different since I’ve been treating her differently but I don’t trust it at all, she will just come up with some other way to try to manipulate me. It’s really like a game and as long as I am not in a position to go no contact completely from her, it will continue I think. But, I can come to the table more well armed certainly and choose my battles more wisely and my weapons. This is empowering and it’s only because I know what she is now.

        1. WhoCares says:

          A Victor,

          “I know my mother is different since I’ve been treating her differently but I don’t trust it at all, she will just come up with some other way to try to manipulate me.”

          Yes, they will always come up with some way to manipulate us.
          In my own situation, I decided to go no contact with my own mother (I entertained going ‘low contact’ at first) because it was the healthiest thing to do if I am going to have my full wits about me in order to raise and protect my son and not unnecessarily lose energy and emotional resources to the narcs in my life.

          “But, I can come to the table more well armed certainly and choose my battles more wisely and my weapons.”

          There may be some truth to this but I think, personally, we are deluding ourselves if believe we can ‘manage’ the narcissist. HG has good material on this re: The Devil’s Pitchfork…Who Can we Control, etc…

          I recently became aware of an Upper Mid-ranger (99.9% sure) in my life – and I am not certain I want to GOSO at this time – mostly because having contact with her means that my son has some contact with an empathetic male role model – which I want for him, since his father is a narcissist and i may never be in another intimate relationship ever again.

          As a result, I am ‘going through the motions’ of having very occasional contact with the UMRN. But I realize the interactions are stilted and feel unnatural to me – but it is educational too, but I can see how much more subtle her manipulations are in comparison to my mother and my ex. But it is tiring putting on an act and avoiding her more invasive manipulations. And I note that she was feeling very fatigued by our conversation too! She even voiced it (feeling fatigued; which is how it may present to the narc who is having to try harder to maintain the illusion) and commenting that it must be due to the weather. But it would be more hard work, for her I suspect if I am no longer giving genuine emotional reactions to her and unconsciously expressing skepticism of her facade etc., and scrutinizing her behaviour. I also tried some subtle attempts at inviting her to be accountable to some statements she had made and I find the reactions entertaining – but it isn’t something that I can maintain for the long-term.

          “This is empowering and it’s only because I know what she is now.”

          It is empowering, to know what they are. But it still like playing with fire to think we can manage them.

          1. A Victor says:

            Thank you WhoCares. I know I cannot control her. I can only control my own reaction to her. I spend as little time as possible in her presence, literally minutes a day or less, and we live in the same house. It is a matter of inheritance and my future that plays a part in my decision making. My husband left me destitute and I am of an age that I can’t make up for it in time so I feel between a rock and a hard place. I would prefer to not have to deal with her at all, except as in the How to Handle a Parental Narcissist ANC guidelines. Unknowingly, prior to moving in here to help with my father, I was doing this, albeit imperfectly. My ex used to ask why I went to my parent’s house at all as I always came back a wreck for several days. Thank you for your thoughts, I will add them to my consideration re how best to proceed. And yes, very fatiguing, all of it.

          2. WhoCares says:

            A Victor,

            That’s good that you reduce your interactions with her. I am sure your father greatly appreciates your assistance.

            “My husband left me destitute and I am of an age that I can’t make up for it in time so I feel between a rock and a hard place.”
            I am sorry that you find yourself in such a challenging position and I completely understand the feeling of being caught between a rock and a hard place.
            The issue of money and having nowhere to live can be a huge influencer on whether or not one is in a position to leave/go NC with the narcissist. I do believe that there are always options though.

            It’s a very good thing you found your way here and have accessed HG’s assistance package on dealing with a parental narcissist – if it’s anything like his other offerings, I am sure it is quite excellent.

          3. Violetta says:

            The crocodile song (very popular with 2-year-olds):

            She sailed away on a lovely summer day,
            On the back of a crocodile.
            “You see,” said she, “he’s as tame as he could be,
            “& I’ll ride him down the Nile.”
            The croc winked his eye as she waved her friends goodbye,
            Wearing a happy smile,
            At the end of the ride, the lady was inside,
            And the smile was on the crocodile!

          4. WhoCares says:

            An apt song Violetta, I didn’t know that one.

          5. A Victor says:

            WC, yes, I agree there are always options, I just have to figure out what they are now. Thank you again, I learn something and/or feel supported from every interaction on here and appreciate all of them.

          6. Another Cat says:

            A Victor

            Bold practical question:
            “My husband left me destitute and I am of an age that I can’t make up for it in time so I feel between a rock and a hard place.”

            Could you ask your children for some help?

          7. A Victor says:

            Hello AC, I appreciate both bold and practical, thank you for your question! I am working currently and hope to for some time yet. There have been talks about the future, with my children, regarding both my mother and myself. As it is now, the word destitute was only financial, I have very good blessings when it comes to my children, none of whom would ever allow me to be homeless etc.

            At this time, my two youngest, single adult children live in the home I share with my mother. Now that my dad is gone, the older one, a PCA/CNA who was very helpful with him, has plans to move in a few weeks. My youngest is finishing up high school and then plans to work, he will be most happy to help with bills around here for as long as he stays. But, he wants to get out on his own too, when it’s appropriate in his mind, and I understand and support this.

            Staying with my mother is the option that will leave me with the least financial worry if I can make living with her work. Then I could join one of my children eventually and bring something to the table. It is a complicated situation which makes me feel very stuck with her. I cannot put her on one of them and I don’t feel like I can leave her either, as above.

            So these thoughts and more are swirling. This may have been more response than you were expecting, if so, I apologize. It sometimes helps me sort my thoughts though, so thank you.

        2. BC30 says:

          I imagine it’s terribly difficult to have a mother who is an N; I am happy to hear you are feeling empowered.

          1. A Victor says:

            It is terribly difficult but easier knowing than it was prior to knowing. Then I held out a sliver of hope that things might change. Now I’ve given that hope up, not to say without some grieving over it, but at least acceptance and reality have a chance now.

        3. Asp Emp says:

          The narcissist manipulates by moving the ‘goal posts’ every 5 minutes and so that is why empaths needs to be on the ‘ball’ and not lose sight of their own ‘aims’ (or of who empaths are as people)….. you will find a way, somehow and someday 🙂

      3. Another Cat says:


        “In my experience, once we are on to the fact that someone in our life is a narcissist, and we keep interacting with them, the narcissist cannot quite put their finger on it but they know something is ‘off’ in the empath’s response.”

        Wise words.This has been my experience. The narcissist changes as soon as they notice my newfound awareness.

        1. WhoCares says:

          “The narcissist changes as soon as they notice my newfound awareness.”
          Yes; you have seen it too then.

      4. BC30 says:

        Yes, for those who must remain–even for a short time, the Ns know something is off. Once the E knows, it’s over. Even if the E is in denial about the N, one cannot unring a bell.

        1. WhoCares says:

          “one cannot unring a bell.” True.
          Sometimes it can be muffled due to the cloud of emotional thinking – but no, it never be undone.

        2. A Victor says:

          This may be why my ex left! He knew I was on to him! Thank you, light bulb moment!

  7. A Victor says:

    This is so sweet. I don’t understand why this can’t be enough for the narcissist, someone who just loves him or her. I mean, after all the study I’ve done in the last 2 months, it still strikes me that… No, it makes me angry, that this can’t be enough. Why can’t he just choose to be good to her? I don’t know if my ex is a narcissist but I do know I loved him with my whole heart and he l just stomped on it all the time. Why wasn’t I, my love, enough? I tried so hard, every day, to make it work and it’s just been hitting me more and more, since being here, just how little he gave to it. I hadn’t seen it like this until coming here. It’s 10 years past and I don’t want to have it come back and need to sort through it again. And I didn’t even come here for him. Or my mother. What is it that I’m here for, what is the end result supposed to be? Is there anything I’m aiming for? It just feels very hopeless sometimes. Not really doing those questions, just frustrated.

    1. A Victor says:

      Also, I do think you should tell her. Everything. Maybe it would help.

    2. lickemtomorrow says:

      AV, I feel your frustration and I’m pretty sure each one of us wondered why we couldn’t be enough. The fault doesn’t lie with us, but it feels like it does. We feel shit because we couldn’t make it work and wanted that so badly. Most of us couldn’t have given more. That’s the truth. Sadly, that will never satisfy the narcissist. They bleed us dry and move onto the next victim. It’s an endless search for fuel as HG has explained. And our job now is to deny them that fuel. Because it isn’t good for us and we must not think that we are good for them. It does feel hopeless sometimes. I agree. But that is only if we are hoping for something to change. Once we get a handle on the fact we can’t control the narcissist, but only ourselves, I think we can get out from under the weight of that. And then there will be better things to look forward to x

      1. A Victor says:

        LET, thank you, I do believe you’re correct, we’ve all wondered this in some way, at some point. And that we’ve all given until we were empty. For 5 years after he left, I was numb. I was functioning, as in caring for my children etc, but numb inside. Then I woke up one day and realized I wasn’t depressed anymore, it was eye-opening because I hadn’t even known I was depressed. To this day, I can’t get my head around leaving your family like he did and just never looking back. Maybe he is a narcissist, or has APD as he was told, it must be something and I know it’s him, not me. It still just got to me again last night, reading this article, why do they make these choices? As discussed recently in another thread, we do have free will. But, their will makes them choose the fuel, or whatever in my ex’s case, over people, for their own reasons. It was just overwhelming me last night, it’s mind-boggling to me, still. But, I have accepted it, with regard to him. And I’m getting there with regard to my mother, in her case it helps just knowing what’s going on, I can choose to respond from a different place and that is helpful. Thank you for the feedback.

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          You are welcome, AV, and I see you’ve gotten lots of great feedback <3

          I also can't get over the disconnected nature of the narcissist. It is truly mind boggling to us as we are so connected as empaths. There is no understanding it from our perspective and ultimately what is needed is acceptance. I'm sure you're familiar with "Lord help me to accept the things I cannot change, to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference". God, I hate that quote in so many ways … I'm an agent for change 😛 It goes against my very nature to think things cannot be changed. I'll hang in there until the bitter end, which is what I've tried to do for the most part every single time. Believing if I just waited long enough, tried harder, gave more it was somehow going to make the difference.

          The only conclusion I could come to in the end was the need to prioritize myself (and my children). I/we were never going to be the narcissist's priority. And that was a tough conclusion to come to. The reality of it sinks in when you see how easy it is for them to leave you. And I know how difficult that is. The reason for it is they never truly connected with us in the first place. I can say the same about my mother. The reason I feel no sympathy is because I know she feels no sympathy for me. It's as simple as that.

          Once you can get your head around it, and the emotional thinking subsides, it becomes easier to take a hold of what you need to in order to move forward. It's a slow process, but it is possible. As you said, knowing what's going on and choosing to respond from a different place is a huge step in the right direction. And it is one step at a time. Waking up from your daze or depression after your ex-husband's departure is one way of knowing you can find your way out of the fog xox

      2. BC30 says:

        LET, I remind myself that they never knew me either. They had this idea built up in their heads about who I am. So, when they saw who I really am, it shattered their illusion; they began the devaluation. That brings me comfort because I know that *I* was always genuine whereas they are a delusional construct all of the time.

        1. A Victor says:

          BC30, this is what is scary for me. As soon as I realized my mother and my ex and even the summer narc that got me started on this path, were dangerous, I walled up. I stepped away from my mother and the summer narc as far as possible given each situation. But none of them really knew the real me once that wall went up, probably the summer narc did the best actually. But the scary part is what if I can’t take it down again, ever, even with a good person? But, that is getting the cart very far in front of the horse, off to read Sitting Target now, I appreciate your thoughts.

        2. lickemtomorrow says:

          BC30, HGs explanation on the narcissist’s infatuation rings bells for me after reading what you’ve said. The narcissist is infatuated with us, but it is not the ‘real’ or genuine us. It all relates to their needs in terms of how they see us. And once we are not fulfilling those needs, which corresponds with them seeing the ‘real’ us, then as you say the devaluation begins. That’s the logical explanation, but it hurts just the same when you are subject to it.

          And it’s true we shatter their illusion by being ourselves. The infatuation ends. It has to.

          Coming to terms with their delusional construct is the work at hand xox

          1. A Victor says:

            LET, you may have hit on why my marriage ending was so sad for me, it was all a lie, in my mind, at that time. I had wasted 23 years with someone who never really was in it with me. Which caused me to never really be in it with him either and to endeavor to hide the real me as it seemed to repulse him. But, my feelings were real and I would’ve continued to try had he not walked away. Anyway, learning that he never wanted the real me, as your comment here states, helps with understanding it a bit.

          2. Duchessbea says:

            We are nothing more than objects. To supply fuel. Love yourself and become your own best friend. You deserve better. You are worth more. Know who you are and as HG says ‘go no contact, stay no contact’. You have feelings, the narcissist doesn’t. They try to imitate feelings, but they fall short because they don’t know what they are. It’s sad but once you realise what you are as HG says ‘get out and stay away’. Turn off emotional thinking. Hard to do that but important. Remember narcissists are empty on the inside. You have feelings, they don’t. Get out there and be your best self and live your best life.

          3. A Victor says:

            Duchessbea, what a sweet, encouraging post! I’m going to take a screenshot and save it on my phone so I can read it on days like today! I’m not sure who you wrote it for but thank you from me. 🙂


          5. lickemtomorrow says:

            Hey Smarnucci,

            I, too, have no problem enjoying my own company and have vested much time in reading HGs work, interacting here, catching up on some reading, following politics, and spending time with my children, too. Getting the house ready for Christmas is next on my list! There is much to be thankful for (on Thanksgiving day) and I’ll try to keep that front and centre. I’m sure HG is pleased to hear of your efforts to spread the word and I also drop it with some information whenever I get the chance x

            Glad to hear you are enjoying life and that’s fantastic about your blog! Keep up the good work and don’t forget us <3 xox

      3. smarinucci1970 says:


        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          Nice to see you, Smarinucci <3 Hope you are keeping well xox


          2. lickemtomorrow says:

            Hey Smarnucci <3

            Good to hear you are getting out and friends are there to encourage you. Even if it is just for appearances, (and hopefully it's not "here we go again" with any narcissist's), it's an opportunity to begin taking your life back xox

            I'm still less than encouraged in lots of ways and outings with friends leave me cold. Just not 'feeling' it for the most part. I always enjoy my children and spending time with them, but not a fan of the wider world for now.

            You take care, too, and I'm glad you're still dropping by from time to time 🙂

        2. Truthseeker6157 says:

          S Marinucci,

          Nice to see you back. Great pic, you look lovely. Xx

          1. smarinucci1970 says:


          2. smarinucci1970 says:


          3. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hello S Marinucci,

            Thank you I’m doing well. I’ve started a few new pastimes lately and really enjoying them. I’m doing pretty well considering we are now on the run up to Christmas. Like many, not my best time of year. I’m built for heat not wet and drizzle!

            It’s really good to see you here again, you must keep stopping by. I always enjoy the honesty of your comments. It is tough sometimes, I know what you mean. The more you read the more you start to realise how you have been impacted across so many different aspects. It starts with one narc, then you realise, actually, maybe more than one narc, maybe more than one situation. I know you have been impacted by narcissists for many years but you know what? You look fab and you sound great. You sound well 🙂 Having your blog is probably very therapeutic too. A way to get things out of your system. You’re a strong lady, soul intact and your heart will heal. Xx

          4. smarinucci1970 says:

            Hello truth-seekers ,truth-seeker ,, maybe we are truth Seekers all of us here we’re searching for the truth what really happened to us ..When I was a young kid I really thought I dropped down from another planet.. I was beaten at home I was beaten at school if my glasses were broken or I had gum in my hair or whatever I got murdered at home I got murdered at school .. ON my lunch hour my mother instead of giving me lunch she would take that opportunity to cut my hair with the raw Razer blade and then give me those little spit pin curls, put the saddle shoes on put a moo moo dress on me,,, put the pins in my face I was starting to break out in blemishes ..of course use that opportunity called lunch hour and send me back to school like that ..of course you’re going to be beat up of course you’re going to hear every taunt out there and she was the co-dependent makes you wonder does a co-dependent turn into her narcissist psychopath husband ?? when she was dying at at 84 many years later and I was the only one to visit her she would say please forgive me I’m sorry and of course I would say for what ?? there’s nothing to forgive..

            But my dear ,, I know what you’re talking about because the more we think and the more we read about this , the more we remember and the more it hurts us .. who wins ?? they don’t win .for a while I thought I won I worked three jobs a day for 20 years. I made OUT WELL with the stock market and some good deals I made over a million dollars I was on my way & never thought I was winning , there was no one to enjoy it with ..MY husband was so jealous he hated me the last years of his life he hated the home a beautiful white Victorian with the big porches the hanging baskets ,the weeping willow trees and Rose of Sharon in the yard the lilac trees , the rose trees BEAUTIFUL array of birds my favorite The Raven, Cardinals blue Jays .. but it brought in such sadness ,, finally got a Christmas my mother being a Jehovah’s Witness since I was 9 wiped out Christmas and then I MARRIED at 18 a Roman Catholic he couldn’t care less about Holidays or any special occasions ..
            The NARCISSIST seems to be saved from some of the feelings that we have .. I don’t know the more I question ,the less I know so I think the answer is as Gore Vidal the writer that I so much enjoyed a very
            sarcastic writer, said, the best revenge is to be the best you can be . That’s what I live ..🎶

          5. Truthseeker6157 says:

            S Marinucci,

            Yours is such a sad tale but testimony to your strength of character that you are still standing and live to tell it. To be so young and fighting on all fronts, home and school, such a lot for a young girl to handle. A real hard worker who made good but no one to ever say, “Well done girl!” Of course we know a narcissist would never celebrate the achievement of someone else, even if it did bring a beautiful home for him to live in.

            It does sound beautiful too S. You did yourself proud, you did it yourself. If it didn’t bring happiness then, maybe you can look back now and smile that you did it at least. You got there and against the odds. I love stories like that, I love to see people do well and you did, really well. Of course, the narc had to spoil it for you. Wouldn’t do to let you have your moment would it?

            I’m glad he has gone. You get chance to have some peace finally and live your life for you. You got balls girl! ha ha. Going back to school, retraining, becoming a nurse. I hope you love it. I bet you do.

            You’re right. I am doing things that make me happy. Making an effort to try something new and stick with it. I started running, was doing pretty well until I pulled my Achilles! No running for the last 2.5 weeks and my mood / outlook has dipped in line with that. I am now back in the gym though and the heel feels better. There’s a really lovely trainer there who made me promise no running until next week so I’m doing as I’m told, strengthening it back up before I go again. It’s freezing here now, I shall learn to love running in the cold!

            No plans to include anyone else, just me and the kids, I’ll start there for now, see how it goes. Building my best life 😉

            You are an inspiration. I’m glad you are here. Xx

        3. Another Cat says:

          Smarinucci, WhoCares, Bibi, Sweetest Perfektion, Violetta,

          American readers

          I wish you a warm happy thanksgiving weekend with your loved ones! If you are alone for the weekend, please vent here.

          1. smarinucci1970 says:

            good afternoon another cat thank you for your words I appreciate it hope you’re taking care of yourself and you’re staying safe please have a lovely Christmas and Christmas Eve you and your loved ones please keep your knowing the narcissist with HG Tudor up-to-date it keeps us grounded keeps us somewhere on guard and safe bless your heart and take care

    3. NarcAngel says:

      I feel the frustration in your words. This is not a judgement on you so please don’t see it as such. It is but a different perspective. It’s the questions I see when I read your words.

      Why can’t she see that she IS enough but his DISORDER will not allow for that to be accepted. It just IS, like the sky above and the earth below us.

      Why can’t she see that it does not have to be this particular man? There are many other men who would not stomp on her heart and her efforts. That she is missing out on having those efforts returned because she is stuck on someone who is not unwilling but UNABLE to reciprocate what she wants and needs.

      Why can’t she see her worth like I can?

      I believe you are here to see all of this and to know there is more for you. That the aim is to finally feel and believe it so that you can move on and have those things for the balance of your life.

      1. A Victor says:

        Ah, NC, thank you, your words make a lot of sense to me and I needed them. There are so many things wrapped up in all of this: I want a man in my life and get panicky that it won’t happen as I am getting older (I’ve always been panicky but had a different excuse), I don’t want a man in my life because it is terrifying, I want to be able to feel contented without a man, I certainly don’t want a faulty man again but don’t know how to achieve finding a good one, and the list goes on. Why can’t I see my worth and just know it is so and live happy? I am lonely and I see loneliness looming for 30 years (wow, that’s defeatist thinking!) ahead of me, if I am blessed to live that long. Why can’t my children and grandchildren be enough? I want that connection with another that you can only get through an IPPS, haha, that’s why. And I can deny wanting that, but it will pop out at times, never really gone I feel very cheated, as I suspect many here do, because I was so looking forward to this end with my ex, once the children were grown, to just be able to enjoy time with him and me. That thought was what got me through many of those challenging child-rearing days. And then, the first time out of the gate, I end up with a narcissist, ugh. It seems this all must be somehow put away, bitterness is an ugly thing and I cannot allow that to enter and grow. But the feelings of frustration hit again last night. Thank you again, I will reread your comment as needed, quite often for now.

        1. A Victor says:

          Oops, please forgive me for getting your name wrong, NA.

        2. Asp Emp says:

          Hello AV, you will find somebody again. Just take some time out as you have been through a lot in a short period of time. People can be ‘misunderstood’ (narcissists, empaths, people with different cultures / from foreign countries, all sorts of people) it’s about understanding yourself as a person first then understand others as individuals. Added on top of that – narcissism too. You’re doing ok AV x

          1. A Victor says:

            Thank you Asp Emp, again someone here has more confidence in me than I do. It is so strange, as of last March I was completely content being single, expecting it even and gladly, for the rest of my life. Then, bam, something hits and…now I just want to go back to how I was then. I did know myself, truly blindsided by the change that happened at that time. Anyway, thank you, it helps to be here.

          2. Asp Emp says:

            Hi AV, that is ok. You will get ups & downs – you’re in mourning, so it is understandable that you’d be feeling as you are at present. I can relate to how you must be feeling & thinking. Some of HG’s articles do ‘open’ up some of my wounds, like one last week and I cried (about my dad) – it’s human nature. Just keep ‘talking’ to us x

        3. NarcAngel says:

          Loneliness is a self fulfilling prophecy if one allows the wrong relationships to eat up the time they have left. You can be part of a couple and still be lonely, so don’t make that the focus and don’t have the sweep you off your feet expectation you’ve experienced with the narcissist is what I’m saying might lead you in a better direction.

          Also, reading Sitting Target before you unlatch the gate again and consulting with HG once you are out of the gate and having any doubts will see you to more success.

          No need to be lonely.

          1. A Victor says:

            NA, you are correct I am sure. And I did experience the loneliness that can be within a “relationship”, I would prefer what is now over that any day. I feel just very whiney at this time and should stop now. It will subside. You are the third to mention Sitting Target in as many days, I will reread today. Thank you.

          2. Witch says:

            @A Victor
            I have similar feelings due to my codependent traits. They are not significant enough to prevent me from going no contact from any narc but if I were single I know some nights I would be crying in bed due to feeling lonely.
            I value my freedom highly which is why i can’t bear to be with a narc but I don’t feel like I can go very long without a love interest.
            I wish I were “normal” but I’m not.

          3. A Victor says:

            Witch, I relate very much to your words. The need for freedom is strong, it controls much of how I live. And I love it. That’s why this desire to have a love interest, after so many years without one, is such a surprise. I didn’t cry from loneliness prior to March. But, there’s Covid, there’s my youngest turning 18, there’s my dad’s death, there’s that summer narc, there’s finding out my mother is a narc, haha, it’s a lot today. Better than last night and will improve yet again tomorrow. It is refreshing to bump into people who get the freedom thing, not all do.

        4. lickemtomorrow says:

          So much of your comment speaks to me, AV, but this stood out:

          “And then, the first time out of the gate, I end up with a narcissist, ugh.”

          My experience exactly. And in some ways I did let the bitterness enter in.

          Being here is relieving me of some of that angst.

          And your sharing is helping to put words to my experience, too.

          Thank you <3

          1. A Victor says:

            Aw, LET, thank you. I’m sad for you to have had that experience too. It really sucks.

      2. lickemtomorrow says:

        This is the inevitable position of the person on the outside looking in, or the one who must watch what is happening and being unable to remove that person from the grip of the narcissist. It’s the objective view we all need to hear and experience, even if we are unable to take it on board at the time. The hope is it will eventually sink in and that there will be a window of opportunity to allow that to happen. I’m thinking of my daughter’s friend and how my daughter is watching the car crash happen. You want to stop it, but you can’t. All you can do is hope to pick up the pieces in the aftermath. It’s very hard being on the outside looking in. And yet we are left with no other choice.

        When I read this article, so beautifully and eloquently written, I’m on the outside looking in.

        It is such an honest perspective from HGs point of view. One of the things I really appreciate about it.

        1. A Victor says:

          One of my daughter’s has a friend in a similar situation, I thought of her as I watched HG’s “A Very Imprisoned Narcissist” and afterward told my daughter about it but we are helpless as we watch. Many tried to stop her marrying her husband and now they have 2 children. It is heartbreaking.

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            I haven’t watched that one, AV, so I’ll have to go and take a look.

            It is heartbreaking if the focus remains on her current situation.

            The hope is she will come to her senses and that it won’t be the end of the story <3

            So many here can attest to the reality it is possible to move on from this x

          2. lickemtomorrow says:

            I’ve watched this one now, AV (“A Very Imprisoned Narcissist”) and for some reason that guy popped into my mind when I read your comment, so weird how the video turned out to be about him. It’s great the way HG is able to break these things down to give us further insight, and I’m beginning to do the same myself. I watched a doco on this guy a couple of months back and I immediately knew all the things HG was telling us in the video. Of course, his original recording goes back to last year so way ahead of the game again.

            But to think she did what so many of us do … posting their seemingly idyllic relationship online and probably wanting to believe it herself. She doesn’t appear to have shared the devaluation she was experiencing, which is also like a lot of us until we find ourselves here. We just suck it up. And try to make things better. It’s so hard to know what is going on behind closed doors. And for her it was fatal.

            These stories are all too common, and tragic. It is good HG is highlighting them for others to understand. If you know what to look out for there is at least the possibility of being able to intervene, or escape for the victim. How very, very sad in this case.

            I do hope your daughter’s friend will be OK. She’s about as entangled as she can get right now. Those of us who have escaped from such a situation know it is possible. I will hope the best for her xox

          3. A Victor says:

            LET, and I hope the same your daughter’s friend.

    4. Violetta says:

      That’s like telling a shark if it were a dolphin, people would like it better. Or a double-amputee that he must want to walk oddly.

      1. A Victor says:

        Violetta, yes, it’s a matter of accepting it is this, I think. It is just so difficult to accept sometimes, from my perspective, I must accept their perspective to accept they think this way. And I fight against that because who would choose to be a shark? Someone who cannot feel safe as a dolphin. Someone who had the two requirements to become the shark and that is what happened. Someone predisposed who was treated so badly that they locked up all other options so as to never be hurt again, never be out of control again. I don’t know, this may take some time. I will keep studying. Thank you, your comment is good food for thought.

        1. Asp Emp says:

          Shark steak anyone? 😉

        2. Truthseeker6157 says:

          A Victor,

          It’s not enough because you aren’t over the narc yet. I’m an only child, I’m content in my own company. When I was with the narc I was the loneliest I’ve ever been. I chased and chased and the more I chased the lonelier I became. I didn’t realise that what I was chasing was never there to begin with. Now that I do, I don’t feel lonely any more. I miss him but I feel good. I feel like me and am enjoying life again.

          I think we feel lonely when we think back. The more you start to look forward (which you will in time) the more you will realise how full your life actually is, then you’ll realise that what you have, is and always was, enough. Xx

          1. BC30 says:

            100% in agreement with TS6157

          2. Truthseeker6157 says:

            My Ewok just waved at your Ewok with his little grabbie hand!

      2. Asp Emp says:

        “That’s like telling a shark if it were a dolphin” – only if it were that simple! Good example of thinking ‘laterally’ 🙂

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