A Momentary Lapse Into Weakness
What weakens the narcissist, why and what is his response?
What is empathy to him?
What is control to him?
213 thoughts on “A Momentary Lapse Into Weakness”
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It seems that every 4 months or so, everyone here tries to guess HG’s age again. Hilarious. What’s going on with Shieldmaiden? Is she still IPPS?
She is.
… and this is a question ppl always ask HG and I never feel like I wonder about it.
Once a narcissist found “perfect prime aims” there is often a spouse for life. Several devaluation periods of course, but living together for life.
Sort of like the narcissist’s “soul mate”. That’s really sweet. And I’ve wondered about this, if they find someone suited to them, why wouldn’t they stay with her. Maybe she challenges them, in a good way, enough, and keeps the positive fuel going, out of love, that they could be satisfied and have minimal devaluation times. And, if HG can do it, why not others? Not saying I want to be with one, just wondering.
What I mean is this: I would be very surprised if HG/SM would ever end things. They seem tight (as tight as a narcissist can be concerned).
Agree Another Cat,
I have faith that HG has evolved enough and has an extensive enough fuel matrix to support him through that relationship. I don’t think he will need to enter into devaluation with SM.
In my view, the difference with HG is the fuel matrix, not necessarily just the evolution of his narcissism. Plus, the choice of partner in SM, who sounds lovely.
I believe devaluation in some form is inevitable but disengagement is in question. They were all lovely until they weren’t.
NA,
You might well be right. Another question I have is ‘The Ultra’. That’s a recent development. Signifies a change. A change in what? Perspective? Sense of self? The next evolutionary step in HG’s narcissism? People on YouTube jokingly think it is to do with his sense of grandiosity. I don’t buy that. It signifies something. A development / amendment. Could that development impact and include SM? I think it might do.
Christmas coming up, could there be a small black box under the tree?
Truthseeker:
“Christmas coming up, could there be a small black box under the tree?”
Would that be to her long-term benefit?
Violetta,
Couldn’t possibly comment. Xx
I’ve been pondering the Ultra title for quite some time now but had just not decided on the approach to that discussion. I waited to see if perhaps HG had something in the pipeline where he would expand on how he came to the decision of applying that title to himself or what precipitated it’s introduction. I say introduction but I mean in the language sense as I don’t recall any specific unveiling. As I recall he used it one day and part of me thought he was joking in reference to his elevated status, but another part of me sensed that he was not joking at all. This was not the introduction of a new school – HG was setting himself apart. I noted it’s use a few more times and then others started to refer to the Ultra as well but no one was really questioning why the change. My cynical side wondered if this was some kind of experiment to see if we would simply accept this new development without question because I would marvel each time it was used. The virtual equivalent to looking around the room to see if others had heard what he said and their reaction to it, but it seemed a case The Emperors New Clothes.
So here we are. Not the greatest approach perhaps but this seems as good a time as any since questions have been raised with regard to it possibly being tied to The Shieldmaiden, therapy, or possibly even The Grand Design.
HG
Did you expect and will you consider individual questions regarding the introduction and use of the term Ultra? or, do you have plans to write about what precipitated this decision of Ultra to be made made and have it open to discussion (on a specific thread for example).
It just seemed like a rather big turning point to me but perhaps I’m the only one with questions?
NA, I expected some people to ask and others to recognise that I am in a class apart and hence the Ultra and accept that. I decided to make the distinction because it was required given my unrivalled insight and then to use that in a meaningful way to enable what I explain to you to stand out also. It is also partially a provocative label, to cause people to ask what does this mean, to catch their eye and in some instances it would of course invite envy and bile from those shrivelled ball Mid Range Narcissists! If people have questions appertaining to this status, I will address them where I see fit to do so.
NA, HG has posted a video on the YouTube channel about his awareness as the Ultra. I’ve listened to it, but there is no specific reference to him becoming the Ultra, just the journey to discovery.
I did note a specific mention of the usual length of HGs relationships, the longest being his relationship with his ex-wife (4 years). That had me pondering his current situation, and in another recent video HG makes mention of the use of IPSSs as appropriate in reference to himself (possibly not current). There is no doubt HG can sustain a lengthy golden period as he appears to have done with SM, but I feel we are getting hints that this period may be coming to an end. Mention of IPSSs, lengths of relationships (being relatively short), and of course our overarching knowledge of narcissism as HG has explained it. It all makes for interesting fodder in terms of trying to guess what is happening, and I’m sure only the Ultra could pull off a surprise move in terms of what to expect.
It remains to be seen, but devaluation must happen. Positive fuel, at some point, will not be enough.
HG will devalue her eventually if that has not happened already.
This is because you can never fully have control over someone and we will always do something which threatens the narcissists’ control and sense of entitlement regardless of how wonderful we are.
He could still remain with her but she will be delvalued.
Placing faith in a narcissist is futile
Normally I would agree. This isn’t any old narcissist though.
Not suggesting HG miraculously grew emotional empathy. More, a next level to his narcissism given the extent of his ever increasing fuel matrix and his level of awareness. Small shifts in behaviour within a set framework.
Example, allowing SM a degree of independence would keep things fresh. The fact that HG is so busy offers additional ‘supporting’ fuel plus, less opportunity to tire of strawberry ice cream. Small shifts could make a big difference, facilitated by an awareness that other narcissists just don’t have.
It’s a dangerous path to tread if we think that change is possible. I don’t believe it is for the most part. The extra level of awareness HG has access to though might just afford enough wiggle room for a different narcissistic perspective to be introduced.
@TS
I don’t believe awareness and intelligence changes the prime aims.
If a narcissist (including HG) is addicted to fuel and control, his need for control will take precedence over anyone else’s feelings.
His intelligence and awareness may lead to a longer golden period but this won’t be sustained indefinitely. As a narcissist views people in black and white eventually SM will be painted black.
I understand why readers may hope that HG can change because he helps us with personal narc related problems and therefore there is a degree of bonding and attachment which takes place via feelings of gratitude, but it’s emotional thinking to believe that any IPPS will never experience similar treatment as the previous IPPS’.
We are never special, we are only sources of fuel to any narcissist. HG makes this very clear.
Witch,
Does the importance of each prime aim vary though depending on timing and fuel matrix?
HG undertook therapy for very specific reasons, none of which were to do with therapy. He continued to go and for years.
So, assume the situation where the IPPS represents only 40 – 50% of required fuel as she does for the Greater School ( 50% for Greaters)
Then assume that she has a residual benefit of being an heiress to a multi million pound fortune complete with a huge tranche of land in Wales. ( ha ha)
In this situation which of the Prime Aims holds most sway? Does he install her as a Stepford IPPS and enjoy the inheritance? I think he might. He won’t harshly devalue either as she would have the means to ship out real fast if necessary. So in essence, he would draw fuel from elsewhere in the fuel matrix to compensate the stale positive fuel from her.
I’m exaggerating to make a point not be an arse here ha ha.
Could he maintain the illusion of a golden period indefinitely if this was the case? ( He’d likely bump her off actually, buy a yacht, but you know what I mean.)
The fact still remains he can only move within the confines of the narcissism. HG will always be a narcissistic psychopath but can he make shifts in behaviour depending on priority within the Prime Aims? His fuel matrix is extensive and growing and, he isn’t getting any younger.
I agree, we want HG to do well because we feel better. However, there is a reason for the move to Ultra status and the trialing of a different perspective has also been mentioned previously. How much flexibility does he actually have now within the fuel matrix?
How does that impact behaviour?
@TS
What is a non-harsh devaluation? If she tells him she doesn’t want to do something and he shouts in her face (corrective devaluation) maybe that’s hash for her?
Would having an affair not be harsh? What is harsh and not harsh?
SM is better off emotionally with another empath, facts!
I’m not really invested in this Ultra thing. Having read what the previous IPPS’ have been through, a narc is a narc.
Witch,
Non harsh, good question. What works for one wouldn’t work for another.
Even in a relationship with another normal there are blazing rows occasionally. Part of the course of living with someone for a long time. One takes the other a bit for granted then there is an air clearing exercise and all then is well. Some couples row regularly, others rarely. I know one thing though, it isn’t all hearts and flowers all of the time. ( love devotee trait is turned off over here)
I’m not advocating relationships with narcs by choice. Far from it. Agree, narcs, bad news, stay away. I’m looking at a very specific situation with a very specific narcissist.
So, if the golden period was more or less maintained, for the reasons I suggested above, and the devaluation spasmodic more akin to the arguments had in ‘ normal’ relationships then SM would be largely oblivious. For the most part would be in an enduring golden period.
It’s a different question as to whether she would choose this if she knew that in actual fact the whole thing is an illusion. Would she choose the illusion? I don’t know, I don’t know her. It’s largely a moot point as she won’t be offered the choice by the Ultra anyway.
So given the situation is as it is, HG and she both having needs met currently, the question is can that be maintained long term? I suspect it can due to awareness, fuel matrix and the residual benefits SM clearly has. HG approached this relationship differently. As I recall, they knew each other 6 months before they started a formal relationship. So she was chosen and for a valid reason.
I could be overestimating the fuel matrix. I could be overestimating the residual benefits. I could be underestimating the need for fuel to come direct from the IPPS. Most narcs don’t have the matrix to support. The Ultra does. Greaters do, Greaters lack the self awareness and understanding of narcissism though. Imagine the computer that becomes self aware. Conceivably could this specific narcissist manipulate his own narcissism?
TS
In what ways do you perceive HG as approaching the relationship with SM differently? He had awareness for instance in his relationship prior to this one with both parties having needs met for a time, an extensive fuel matrix was in place, they were assessed as fulfilling the prime aims expected of the IPPS, he was already in therapy which by his own admission can make them more effective (and not in ways which we would admire).
What then do you think would be his motive to change now when he has previously stated he sees no reason to do so?
@TS I’m sure HG can manipulate his narcissism to appear “normal” for a period of time but this won’t be able to be sustained forever.
Eventually the potency of SM’s fuel will start to diminish as the honey moon period fades and she becomes used to the same penis and the same routine.
Then all she has to do is cough the wrong way and HG will bite her head off. He will start to try to isolate her, control her clothing choices, triangulate her and belittle her.
He may never even marry her for her to gain matrimonial rights to his properties and as they won’t have children, its likely she won’t get shit
Hi NA
I was thinking that earlier. Why do I think this relationship is different to previous relationships?
HG took his time and did not dive in with SM. I believe it took him six months to properly install SM as IPPS. There will have been a reason for that.
I think SM holds a position that benefits HG. This could be by birth right or by her social or professional contacts. Her pedigree if you like. Something not straight forward to replace which would up the weighting placed on ‘residual benefits’.
There’s still an infatuation in the tone when a question is asked about SM. Sometimes more of a defensiveness. Of course this could change in an instant. However I estimate the golden period being around two years to date. That’s at the top end of what has been described previously. If not he would have to be around 90 yrs old.
HG has mentioned ‘a new perspective’ but given no detail as to what that is. He’s a narcissist so a safe assumption he is referring to himself.
HG and SM are not in each other’s pockets continually. Hours active on the blog plus YouTube indicate this. That’s before we look at the day job separation. This separation will help keep things fresh.
HG has added the Ultra into the narcissistic schools. Recent event. Could be a marketing exercise, could be grandiosity. Given the attention HG gives to the narcissistic schools and the accuracy of his work, I anticipate him being able to back up the Ultra classification with real differentiation and not marketing speak. Even I can colour in.
We know next to nothing as yet about the behaviours of this school of narcissist.
HG’s fuel network is growing exponentially in terms of tertiary sources. Yes fuel derived from tertiary sources is low grade but his various interactions linked to Narcsite are numerous and set to be even more so. Even a dripping tap can flood a bathroom.
Compare the HG on the blog a few years ago to the HG now. Compare the interactions he described with the good doctors to the ones he has with us on the blog. There is a marked difference. His awareness is vastly increased to where it will have been with previous IPPS.
I don’t think HG sees a need to change necessarily. I agree there. No desire to become ‘good’. No emotional empathy, there’s the show stopper right there. I do think however that this particular relationship with SM fulfills the Prime Aims in a specific way. I think it’s the residual benefit aspect. If it does, I think HG will manipulate the narcissism to capitalise on it and, he has the fuel matrix to accommodate that.
SM will be providing and continue to provide high quality proximate positive fuel. Should it become stale, therefore less potent, I think the matrix can supplement.
My view on this is not a romantic one. I’m done with romance personally so can say that with a degree of confidence. I do think this is a different set up than with previous IPPS. I also think there’s a lot yet to learn about the Ultra school of narcissism.
Witch,
Yes, I thought about that after. I can’t see the point of the ring under the tree. Too much risk involved if they were to separate. Although, you can lose just as much now if you live together for a certain period of time without being married. More so if children are involved as you say. I can’t see the advantage to marriage in this particular case.
It is an interesting scenario though. If we are learning about narcissism then the Ultra school is a new level that we have yet to understand. There will be differences, I’m curious to know what those differences are.
TS, would a ring under the tree happen if he felt he would lose her otherwise, and he’s not ready for that to happen?
@TS
HG posted a video not too long ago about devaluation which explains further what I’m trying to say
AV,
HG has said previously I think that if marriage was required to assert control over the IPPS that marriage as a manipulation would be used. I also seem to remember a comment about him not needing to use this as an assertion of control as he was able to do so effectively by other means.
Technically a ring could be used as future faking though. So whilst I fail to see what benefit HG would see in marriage, ( unless there was a title and associated status uplift involved) an engagement might be something he would consider using to assert control.
Gawd, I sound cold. Trying to think as a narcissist not as an empath.
Witch,
Yes, just listened to that walking the dog. The ‘if the narcissist was honest’ one?
I’ve stated my case. Not a very popular viewpoint it seems ha ha!
I won’t bang on about it further. It bothers me that people new to the blog might see this as my advocating that their narcissists can change. They can’t. I’m very clear about that. No doubt we’ll find out all we need to know about the Ultra in due course, or not, as is his choice.
Thanks for listening xx
TS
Thank you for providing your take on it.
Some things that came to mind while reading them:
I don’t know how long he took to install the others so not sure if there’s a difference there.
I’m sure she does hold a position that benefits HG and weights the prime aims, but then so did his wife and I believe HG stated that as one of the reasons for marrying (a professional consideration if memory serves).
I have pointed out previously that despite how HG speaks of SM and sets her far above the others now, that he would have stated these things emphatically about her predecessors at the time he was involved with them as well.
I know that HG has mentioned previously about looking at becoming more “prosocial” and possibly managing his responses in a different way.
I’ve not read anything that leads me to believe the others would have been any more in each others pockets than the present situation. They had careers and HG has been managing this as well as his profession for quite some time. Conversely might less time together contribute to some dissatisfaction on her part?
So far I believe The Ultra is a school of one with no indication of change.
I doubt the tertiary sources here enter into the equation and I don’t know that his awareness has vastly increased via interaction with the doctors as much as has been manipulated.
I’m sure the others put out high grade proximate fuel (he has lived with others) and his fuel matrix was vast then as well to supplement.
I agree that this relationship with SM seems different in some way that I cannot quite put my finger on, but HG always says look to the evidence and so far I have very little to base any change on other than a possible difference in how SM might be seen better positioned to assist in HG in executing his Grand Design.
I agree there is much to be uncovered about The Ultra. Is it a school or title?
We have to keep in mind that HG’s awareness is astonishing, he has had it from early on, and it has been honed for sure, but there still have to be blind spots created by the narcissism. Otherwise it would not be a total defence system and he would not be a narcissist.
Please keep in mind TS that I am not making these points to discount your thoughts, but so that together (and with others) we can add, delete, mix, and consider what the outcome might be and whether we are basing it on evidence (logic), purely speculation (emotion), or a blending of the two (haha – dare I say hope?).
I like your confidence but I still call romantic on your ass!
Hi NA,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it. You have been here longer and have seen HG’s responses with other IPPS, I have not, at least not in a current sense.
I have no doubt as you say they were all spoken of in glowing terms to begin with. My thoughts from brief reviews of earlier threads seem to be more, it’s not necessarily what he does say about SM, more, what he doesn’t say, but that is of course up to the mindset of the reader too.
I remember HG commenting about the 6 months before he installed SM, I interpreted it in the sense of, ‘ I took 6 months over this one, I took my time.’ That kind of feeling. ‘ I did it properly.’ I accept that could be my interpretation. I do work off an instinctive read, I’ll give you that! That said, I am comfortable still drawing on that side of my empathy. I just try to add in more logic than previously.
The Ultra does appear to be presented as a school rather than a title. When talking about schools HG is grouping Lesser and Midrange then Greater and Ultra for obvious reasons.
I agree that the good doctors were more of a light workout for HG and his manipulative skills. I credit his increased understanding of the empath as coming more from the blog and Narcsite related interactions. His awareness of himself was high to begin with although I do think in certain sessions with the good doctors he uncovered more than he lets on.
I never see your thoughts as aimed to discount NA, only as an alternative ( and probably more accurate) viewpoint.
If there is something you can’t quite put your finger on, then there is something there. Logic is admittedly what we all need more of, but, that intuitive feeling is usually there for a reason, it has its place too.
As for the romantic side, one word, pffft!
Yeah, many narcissists remain living together with their nonnarc spouse. Why would HG not be one of those. Statistically.
I have hoped they succeed so she isn’t hurt and so he can find possibly some semblance of normalcy, though perhaps he wouldn’t want that. But, a person to walk through this life with anyway, it’s nice to have someone to share experiences and memories with, if you get along.
I’ve also hoped they succeed because it may be the beginning of finding out how to “help” the narcissist. I know, it can’t happen. But, I can’t believe that 100%, not yet anyway. And, if it’s only the beginning, it could take many, many years yet to actually become a thing. But, a beginning is needed for everything that does happen.
And, it would be a pretty cool legacy to leave, to be the first narcissist to make a truly good, loving even, relationship happen with someone.
But the non-narc partner suffers. And too many of us have made the mistake of thinking, “It will be different with us.”
I grant you the Golden Period with HG is probably miles beyond what you’d get with most narcs, but that just means devaluation hurts even more. Remember, we always wonder what we did wrong when everything used to be so perfect.
Well, after writing my other two comments on this thread I did more studying, reading, listening. Some of it left me very rattled and now I am a believer, they can’t change.
HG can change what he does; he can’t change what he is.
He’d have to have a pretty strong incentive to change what he does. Can he survive on fuel from irritating his co-workers? Would he eventually require a Dirty Little Secret? What if SM finds out–never mind about the DLS–that he occasionally gets off on cussing out neighbors, other motorists, waiters, etc.? (I grant you the motorists generally deserve it, but some people are quite innocent.) Would SM be appalled by learning how he bullies others, even if he didn’t bully her? Appalled enough to leave?
And if she weren’t appalled, could HG respect her? As Heathcliff says (contemptuously) of Isabella,
“The first thing she saw me do, on coming out of the Grange, was to hang up her little dog; and when she pleaded for it, the first words I uttered were a wish that I had the hanging of every being belonging to her, except one: possibly she took that exception for herself. But no brutality disgusted her: I suppose she has an innate admiration of it, if only her precious person were secure from injury!”
I felt it important to remind readers of the huge amount of narcs not disengaging from the next IPPS. Sharing house for the rest of life.
It’s still a narc.
Many readers keep hoping year after year that the exnarc will someday divorce from this current IPPS.
It won’t happen, in several cases.
They have found the IPPS for life.
Our social media timeline and relatives have these couples. Man of us had one parent narc the other empathic. Married for 40 yrs.
Yes, she will be devalued in periods of time. Emotionally controlled. Not loved.
But living together still.
One more reason to never check their social media.
Violetta,
HG should target all motorists that drive below the speed limit. All of them!!! Ha ha.
Totally agree. HG cannot change what he is. He will never love her and respects her primarily in that she supplies the Prime Aims.
SM is in the situation she is in. She isn’t being offered a choice of a normal or an empath. Given that situation and a the new school of narcissist that is the Ultra. I’m pondering the leverage that represents. Where that leverage might come from and if it might be sustainable. Hopefully leverage that will be to the benefit of SM and HG both.
Had to say hope didn’t I? Was going great guns until then!
Yes, and many of these toxic relationships are assumed as being ideal and loving relationships due to either longevity and/or a representation of such by the participants to the outside world when the opposite is actually true. Especially through media. You can never really know what goes on behind closed doors.
Chris and Shanann Watts for example come to mind.
Truthseeker, your comment about “hope” made me cry, it is so hard to give that up.
@Violetta, thank you for the clarification between what HG is and what he does. And for the further explanation. I have had such a difficult time getting my head around this, I see many of you who have and you have no doubt that he will devalue SM at some point, I cannot allow myself to think this. I listened to Spanked Mon evening though and it was a real eye-opener, it really made me sick, first, but also, wow, it is what it is. And, sad, of course but much less denial after that. Then reading in some of the books, more reinforcement that things are as they are, it is futile to hope for them to change, best to make changes in my behavior to guard against them affecting me. I appreciate the information, it helps.
A Victor,
I think we have to give up certain aspects of hope, but not all. Hope still has its place, sadly just not where our ensnarements are concerned. Hoping for change is a large part of what keeps us ensnared. There will be no change. Even in the case of the Ultra, and as a best case, the core characteristics won’t change, just possibly certain behaviours and I could be miles off the mark there too.
It is sad, whichever way you look at it. Soul destroying. Easier when ET falls.
Truthseeker, giving up hope for these people, the narcissists, is beyond painful. I mean, in my case, it’s my mother, my children’s father possibly, and this “wonderful” fake man I enjoyed interacting with last summer. And that’s just my people, just to think this for such a large group overall, so hard.
But, my son had a run-in with one last year, he was 17, she was his 28 year old boss, she seduced him, it was a devastating situation for him, he is still recovering in some ways and, for better or worse depending what he does with it, will never be the same. That said, I have almost no doubt that she is a narcissist and honestly, she best hope I never see her again. If I can keep the focus on the behaviors such as these, it is easier.
Vi
Yes, it seems they’re infatuated with our potential in being “The One” and then become increasingly disgusted the nearer we get to reaching THEIR goal for us. No one is allowed to reach perfection but them or be seen as equalling them, surely if we could reach it the goal posts were too close and we are too common, so down we must come. Then we’re left with them infatuated with hating us.
We forget that HG was already in fact married before. So of course he is capable of marrying again. I tend to think that HG is correct, in the sense that narcissist create the same dynamic over and over again in their relationships. HG has stated that even though he has awareness, he still has no desire to change, because his status quo is working within his current needs. Empaths are not perfect either. We unfortunately create toxic environments within our relationships as well. We do the best that we can with what we know. That is why i admire the adult children of narcissist who have chosen to break from the cycles of abuse, and can eventually go on to healthy relationships that don’t mimic the environment that they grew up with.
The reason I asked if Shieldmaiden is still IPPS, is for the same reason that I asked last holiday season. Because this time of the year especially brings out the narcissism with Narcissist. I think it’s ultimately SM who decides if she wants to stay or go. HG will be fine either way.
Anm,
Lovely gravatar image, by the way.
“I think it’s ultimately SM who decides if she wants to stay or go. HG will be fine either way.”
I agree Anm, that HG would be fine either way – but do you really think it’s up to her if she stays or goes? First she would have to discern that there is a problem in the relationship and if she perceives one, than she would have to determine the source – before staying/leaving is even a consideration.
Thank you, whocares
I have had the same thought with relation to SM being the decision maker regarding staying or going. If she indeed doesn’t put up with anything, as I’ve seen stated here somewhere, HG will need to be on best behavior or she will go. Maybe that holds him at bay, if enough benefit is coming to him to maintain himself.
It is so odd to discuss the very person who moderates this, I am sorry HG, thank you for letting us learn through your experience and I suppose you don’t really care what we say anyway. But it still feels funny, I don’t even do regular gossip where the person won’t know, haha, so this is very uncomfortable.
A Victor, I can see your perspective
Well, Anm, I am glad. I don’t have much of one, being very new here. I’m probably wrong about a lot that I post but it is fun to interact, I am learning and the people here are so amazing. Thanks for your response.
A Victor,
Welcome! I have been here since 2016. Sometimes life gets busy, and I may not have as much to interact as other times, but I love the Empaths here. There is a good mix of different backgrounds too that come together and share. I am not an ACON, like many here, but I have 2 children that I am “co-parenting” with Narcissists. In fact, today, I had court with one of my ex- narcissist. It was an expedited hearing, which I only had 12 hours to prepare for. I know that the purpose of the hearing was so that my ex could trigger me, and flex his litigation muscles. The hearing did not go the way I wanted to, I half way lost on this one, but I was not triggered one bit, and was able to say to the judge, “see what I have to deal with all the time?” And she was at least able to say, “yeah, his demeanor is a bit over intense, and I am concerned about exchanges”.
A Victor, what about Narcissist brings you here?
Anm,
“In fact, today, I had court with one of my ex- narcissist. It was an expedited hearing, which I only had 12 hours to prepare for.”
I am sorry you only had 12 hours to prepare and that court didn’t go as you would have liked it to.
It is positive, though, if he showed himself to the judge – I have found this to be advantageous in my own situation, because my ex has made himself known to many in the local legal community – including judges.
Do you currently have in-person family court where you are? Here, it is still virtual at this time.
Anyway, sorry to butt in on your conversation with AV, but I was curious…
Thank you for the welcome Anm! It is so nice to hear from those of you with some longevity in the program, your success is encouraging! I’m glad for any of you who make it back, even if only occasionally to impart some words of wisdom and encouragement. So happy to hear the judge saw and affirmed what she did. I hope it goes better at the next hearing, it is so sad when children are put in the middle of these things, and you’re doing everything you can to protect the child. But good job on not allowing it to trigger you! That had to be very difficult, I would think.
I am here because I went on dating sites for the first time in my life last April or May. Of course I met a narcissist, haha, and we had a fun summer talking, never met, he lives very far away. Through the course of some things over that 3 months I ended it and a few days later landed here only to come to learn that my mother is also a narcissist and possibly my ex-husband as well. It has been quite the learning experience but I am very glad to have found this site after looking at a few others and learning enough to know I was in trouble but not enough to get out of that trouble and stay out. Anyway, that’s it in a nutshell, thanks again for stopping by and best wishes going forward!
A Victor,
“It is so odd to discuss the very person who moderates this, I am sorry HG”
You should obtain the Knowing HG series and come visit the forum – we talk about him A LOT.
But I understand your sentiment and have felt that way at times as well.
He is not lonely, nor needing of comfort. He does not know what these feel like.
He doesn’t feel anything.
But looks at his hands, and the delicate leaf that is within them, and sees how easy it is to crush that leaf, that life.
Empathy is weakness. Control is power.
Could be little Patrick Bateman sitting on a bench. You never know.
Makes you wonder what could have stopped him becoming Patrick Bateman.
At that age there may still have been a chance.
They won’t diagnose Psychopathy prior to age 18, but will diagnosis CU – Callous Unemotional – in terms of behaviour prior to that age, usually when a child is their teens. There are so many factors that feed into these things. But CU would seem to be a pretty good sign it’s all but over in terms of opportunity for change.
The necessity to get a child out of a LOCE becomes all the more imperative.
And resistance is huge to diagnosing a child with what amounts to an untreatable disorder.
Is there something special about that leaf? I expanded it, but I’m not sure what I’m supposed to be seeing. It’s not like the wallpaper at Meghan Markle’s beloved Soho House.
I’m sure NA saw that under that leaf is the poor insect that little HG is burning slowly to torture to death. I am myopic so I rely on imagination to complete my vision.
Whoever the little boy is, he’s gorgeous! Looking at him, I feel a deep surge of warmth, wanting to grab him and give him a big cuddle! I think it’s a combination of feelings that I feel, looking at him. He looks so cute in that chunky jumper, and it just taps into all of my maternal feelings. Because he is sat alone and looks contemplative, I guess I do want to protect him because at some instinctive level I am assuming he feels lonely. Of course, as mentioned earlier here, that might not be the case at all. Interesting how we bring our own preconceived ideas and emotions to the table!
I don’t think it’s HG either. It’s a colour photo, and my guess is that the bulk of HG’s childhood pictures would be black and white.
Black and white? No, they are colour.
Ah you are younger than I thought then, HG!
Exactly HG, only The Narcissists thinking is in black and white.
Eternity, ha ha, love this! 😂
Hi JB
HG was born in the 70’s so he’s between the ages of 41-50. They had coloured photos back then.
He wasn’t born in 1905 haha
Witch, 1905, ha ha! You realise late 60s/early 70s they still had black and white? 😂 Didn’t know he was born in the 70s, just presumed the 60s for some reason! Sorry I have inadvertently aged you, HG! 😂
JB I had no idea
I’m an 80’s child
And a spice girls fan
Do you zigazigah often?
You can still be an 80s child and know that! 😂
Ah, the Spice Girls, blast from the past there! Posh Spice always used to annoy me though for some reason! Feel awful saying it, she is probably really nice!
Yes I do
I also rock my body because backstreets back alright
And NKOTB!
Balls to them.
Hanging Tough !
HG , I didn’t realize you were s fan too! Who is your favourite ?
None of them.
Come on we know you are a Jordan Knight fan HG ha ha. I met all of them and he was extremely friendly.
Pfffttt.
😉
My eldest daughter is currently doing her Master’s degree and told me the lecturer brought up the Spice Girl’s as an example of feminine empowerment … I’m afraid that one was lost on me. I said why not Beyonce if you’re looking for a pop star or Oprah Winfrey if you’re looking for a celebrity? I mean, c’mon, the Spice Girls?
Let me reiterate Joe Biden here: C’mon man!
Noooo!! Omg that’s the problem with the referents we are giving. However I wouldn’t mind being supported by Posh Spice’s husband AT ALL.
So long as he does not speak.
I heard he can bend it real good.
Pervert.
I’m just stating the obvious, he’s a virtuoso with his balls.
Problem is they tend to end up in various different places.
@Lickem
Listen to the lecturer and spice up your life
Haha, Wtich,
It’s my daughter’s lecturer, and maybe she was a Spice Girl’s fan 😉
She is doing a Business Master’s with a focus on leadership, so I just found the choice an odd one. I mean Oprah is the penultimate businesswoman and is still in the news. Although I do keep hearing about a Spice Girl’s comeback tour <3
"It's raining men" is the one that's stuck in my brain 😛
LET, Spice Girls and female empowerment – don’t you remember the whole ‘girl power’ thing they used to go on about? I never quite got it either, they always seemed to be a bit in your face, and to me being an assertive and empowered woman doesn’t mean you have to be loud and in your face! I didn’t mind some of the songs though!
Know what you mean about David Beckham, HG. His voice just turns me off completely. Does this make me shallow?
Logical.
Ok, now I’m gonna have to find a video in which he speaks.
Oh well! Someone’s gotta have to sit in his face for the sake of Humanity! I’ll sacrifice.
*ON. Naughty phone …
Have you seriously not heard him speak? Oh dear.
Why would I worry about hearing a soccer player speak? What does he have to say that I may find relevant?
It is the double whammy. He is thick as mince and has an weak, reedy voice.
Again, his talent resides on kicking a ball… but yes, it’s the death of a myth for me.
Football!!! My bad.
Eternity went
“And NKOTB!”
Some boy classmates at school used to tease NKOTB a lot and do jumpsteps, greet eachother with the words “Hangin’ tough!” And
“Donnie! Huh! Tough!”
Eternity
O o ah o oh
O o ah oh
O o ah o oh
The /- – – – -/ – – – – -/
Gawd, the first time I heard David Beckham speak I nearly died 😛 Definitely much rather look, but then (as I’ve mentioned before) Steve Gerrard is my poster boy <3
Ah yes the man cuckolded by a bouncer. Great to be Slippy G eh?
“ Thick as mince.” I would say ‘Thick as two short planks.’ Mince is quite Manchester.
Why did you choose Man City and not Man United HG? If you aren’t from Manchester, I would assume you were a red. The reason being, Man City played second fiddle to United for years. The noisy neighbours. City fans weathered years of losses, success fairly recent. Why choose City? Father? Grandfather? Religion even? There is no loyalty amongst narcissists though, I’m confused.
One of my relatives played for Manchester City, hence that became the team I support.
Hey JB, I think just their names put me off – Posh Spice, Baby Spice, and so on.
Girl power is real, and maybe Spice Girls are one representation of that. Just not one that I could relate to in terms of their pop personas. Or maybe I just read them all wrong. I probably feel the same about any girl band. I know when Little Mix put out their song “Shout Out to My Ex” I thought of my ex-husband and found the song quite empowering. He was long gone, but the song resonated with me. Now it’s resonating with me again!
“He is thick as mince”
As long as the D is just as thick, am I right?
“New Kids got run over by a reindeer
All the little children are in shock.
No more loud annoying high falsetto-oh-ohhh
Now there’s no more New Kids on the Block.”
HG,
Thank you, now it makes sense.
May I ask which relative?
You just did.
Truthseeker,
Apparently ‘thick as mince’ is Scottish origin. Although HG does have some northern traits to his accent, which sometimes come through in the videos.
My son is a Man U fan 😛
I’m used to Liverpool being rubbished in my house.
So, “Sticks and stones may break my bones …”
That’s child abuse.
To rephrase,
That’s interesting HG. Which relative was that ? (That played for Man City). What position did he play?
LET,
My son is an avid Man City fan. Liverpool the spawn of the devil in our house!
Hg approves.
See “Onslow is an Evertonian” on YT.
Haha, HG, I didn’t encourage him to support them. I had no influence there (unfortunately :P)
Arrrgh, TS, looks like I’m outnumbered here and in my own house 😛
Just as well i don’t take football seriously.
HG can we guess your age and the person(s) with the right answer wins a discount code?
Feel free to guess.
I believe you are about 42
Will you tell us if we get it right?
I’m going with the half century.
I’m going to take a punt on 51. I know this means you weren’t born in the 70s, but I reckon you have knocked off a couple of years! 😆
I’m going to guess 46.
Old enough to know, young enough to do.
Correct. You can have a prize.
NA, that’s not an age that’s fuel.
Damn, NA, it’s the answer we always get … we should have known.
Congratulations on the win 😉
Witch:
If he’s 42, don’t panic.
Very good.
Haha
Did you actually give her a prize or are you just in the mood to mislead people today? Get their hopes up with your suggestions and then not reply? 😑
Yes I have so wind your neck in.
I’ll likely regret this…
What’s my prize? Moat instead of dungeon?
Subscription to a certain sex blog.
“If he’s 42, don’t panic.”
Violetta I don’t get the joke? I’m sorry
It’s not a joke – it comes from the book ‘Hitchhiker’s Guide To The Galaxy’
“42” is a quotation from the science-fiction novel Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy by the famous Douglas Adams. In his book the number 42 is the “answer to the meaning of life, the universe, and everything” – calculated by a very big computer over a very very long time: “All right,” said Deep Thought. (faq.arc42.org)
A brilliant book – I loved it!
“Subscription to a certain sex blog.”
No thank you. I have no time for the mad ramblings and delusional claims of sexual prowess, intelligence, and power of fantasists.
I’ll take the moat.
Ha ha. Joking aside, email me NA and I will send you your prize.
“Subscription to a certain sex blog.”
Is there a prize for trying?
Being made to read said sex blog.
Let me get out my crystal ball and see.
Witch:
Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy. The book supposedly has “Don’t Panic” on the cover in “large, friendly letters.” “42” is supposedly the answer to the universe, but of course the minute you know the answer, the question changes.
All of this becomes remarkably less confusing after several pan-galactic gargle blasters.
Nicely done NA. * nods*
Haha, HG.
I had no idea there was such a thing as a “sex blog”.
Learn something new everyday.
Finally, something in it for the runners up 🙂
Not quite what you’d prefer though!
“Not quite what you’d prefer though”
I prefer to get the top prize, it’s true 😉
Believe me, you don’t.
No prize required HG. Having been here some time I have been privy to you giving that response numerous times as well as it being in the About section (along with answers to the question about why you being a narcissist would want to “help” others).
It’s my privilege to be here and to be audience to your work. That’s prize enough for me. Thank you.
Also me: Cheeky bugger trying to pass that dreck off as a prize!
Ha ha, well if you insist. I will donate it to Save The Gay Whales instead.
They so need your help.
i want to play too !
I think he is 44.
If i’m right i will be happy to think that i have a superior intinct and i will come up with some ad hoc explanation to why i chosed 44 and not another number, but if i’m wrong, i will deny to the core that i ever said any of the above and the official version will be ” i do not engage in gussing, it is irrational and i’m a wise and logical person”.
NB: Any attempt to remind me of the real course of events will be brushed off Donald Trump style.
“Any attempt to remind me of the real course of events will be brushed off Donald Trump style.” I’m dying haha.
Ha ha I’m learning from narcissists SP, and i’m forced to admit that some of their tools are verry useful, so i may as well use them.
Haha, HG.
I was speaking in general terms, but I’ll take your word on this one.
I can imagine the place is crawling with somatic narcs for a start!
Lickemtomorrow,
I think it’s really aplaudable that you are an empath parent of such successful adult children, despite them having a Narcisisst for a father. I remember you mentioned your middle child (daughter) was successful in business, and even if your eldest is writing on empowerment and the spice girls, I have no doubt that you played a major role in her finding her own empowerment.
Hi ANM, thank you for your kind words, and it is actually my eldest daughter in her mid 20s who is doing the Master’s degree and is enormously driven in terms of her achievements. She definitely sits high on narc tratis, but is not a narc. The middle daughter is a huge empath,and achieving in her own right. She’s also studying, but had some extra struggles added to her path. There are so many ways to count achievement, and not all of it is academic. And I think that’s what I tried to focus on when they were children. My aim was to get to know them, and I was fascinated by their different characters and where that might lead. I tried to encourage them in all the ways they wanted to go. And it’s definite their different personalities contributed.
My eldest was always driven. That could, in part, be the fact she was the oldest. But she had big ideas from a young age. Being her father’s ‘golden child’ could have contributed to that. I could see my middle daughter getting suckered in left, right an centre, even though I knew nothing about empaths at the time, but I knew she needed an element of protection from people who would use and abuse her. I guess all in all I made a decision to make them my focus in the sense of putting their needs first as I knew their father was not going to do it and I, plus they, had no one else to rely on. It was on me, and I took that responsibility seriously. We had one shot, and thankfully for the most part it has worked out.
Both my daughters are empowered as young women in their own right. Having said that, we do not agree on everything, or even many things. A sign of their empowerment, no doubt! I tried to convince my eldest she should watch the Taylor Swift doco “Miss Americana” the other day. She’s not a Taylor Swift fan and would not hear of it. I tried explaining it’s not what you expect. She still won’t believe me. I’m not a Taylor Swift fan, apart from liking some of her songs, and it took me a while to get around to watching it, but when I did (actually the cute kitten at the start won me over :)) I was surprised at what it revealed. Due to the fact she has been under the Tudorscope makes her a ‘person of interest’ 😛
Anyway, thanks again ANM xox I appreciate your encouragement <3
LET,
I know what you mean about the Spice Girl names! I think it just didn’t appeal to me as they seemed to be aiming at a very young audience with the girl power thing. Just felt a bit kid-like to me, I don’t know. Liked the sentiment though! x
Yes, but I gather he is closer to 41 than 50.
Photographer in braces with his head under one of those black sheets holding up the flash gun ha ha.
*TS backs away slowly*
Hahaha
Color pics were common by the late ’60s-early ’70s, although people who could afford it probably had them earlier. If you look up “awkward family photos” or prom pictures, you can see the transition. High school yearbooks here also switched to color at some point, late ’70s-early ’80s (long after everybody else, because they’re always behind in their technology and/or budget).
Some of my extended family pictures of a mid-’60s wedding are in color, though everyday snaps were still taken in black-and-white. As Outkast put it, “Shake it, shake it, shake it, shake it
Shake it like a Polaroid picture!”
Violetta, all our 60s and early 70s photos are in black and white. Like you say, maybe it’s because they were everyday pictures, although I can think of one professional family portrait, taken in the early 70s, which was black and white. I guess colour might have cost a lot more for the average person if it was new.
I have a mix of b&w and color, I’m 57. I have figured HG is up to a decade younger, give or take. My brother, 56, loved Star Wars but was just a bit too old to enjoy playing with the action figures.
Are you in the U.S? I am wondering if colour photos were more common place in the U.S before they were in the U.K? I should google it really but I am being lazy! 😂
Funny how we get an idea of someone’s age without having ever seen or met them!
Yes I am. I don’t know if they were more common here earlier, I just know I have some from when I was quite young. But many b&w also. All of my school pictures are in color, kindergarten would have been 1968 I suppose.
Being here, I often feel I’m either ahead of the commenting or, more usual, behind it. Haha, I often wake up to many email notifications, it is nice, sort of took the place of the summer narc. I don’t think it would be as necessary now but I enjoy it.
I agree, it is funny about the ideas we get about someone. To have some of the knowledge and wisdom HG has he must be of a certain age. Also some of the general life experiences that he talks about. And I can’t imagine his voice on anyone under 30 though my 18 year old son has a deeper voice, just not with the same “agedness”., haha, if that makes sense. It’s kind of fun guessing, a true mystery man!
AV, I probably miss a few of the comments and replies, as I don’t have email notifications switched on, so I am probably a bit behind too! Time difference could make a difference too, depending on when we all comment.
A true mystery man, yes indeed. I like it that way. HG anonymous, us anonymous. Although I must admit to wondering what HG looks like!
Yes, I wonder sometimes too but not too much. I talked to the summer narc for three, yes, 3, whole months never knowing what he looked like. Still don’t. He said I would’ve run away had I known. Not sure what that was about even now. He did have advanced liver failure but I mean, even an older photo??? Huge red flag going forward as I have now realized he could approach me on the street and I wouldn’t even know it. Scary except that he lives very far away. And I would recognize his voice.
But, I also like the anonymity all the way around.
A Victor
“He did have advanced liver failure”
Hm. Are you sure this was not a lie?
AC, I think he actually did have liver failure and when he called me 3 weeks ago, he’d gotten a new liver. His pastor announced it that week to the congregation, I only looked, on YouTube, after his call came, to confirm. I still feel horrible for not congratulating him. It seems so inhumane. But, I know he was dangerous and it would start things again possibly, so I have refrained.
AV
“His pastor announced it that week to the congregation, I only looked, on YouTube, after his call came, to confirm. I still feel horrible for not congratulating him.”
I understand. Also that you ‘d like to congratulate. Sadly, our ET runs too high by any contact. At least mine. Glad you’re out.
Ps. The reason I was skeptic first before knowing you had confirmation, is that liver failure hospitalization is a very common excuse ghosters and standing-up-ers give afterwards to dating victims in stories I read online. Another one is “my father had pancreas cancer operation”. Quite horrible stuff some of those fellows say from thin air. Hence the shock of their victims.
AC, well, that is good to know! If anyone uses an excuse like that on me in the future, I’ll run the other way while they ghost me!
Yes, it was a good thing that he said a number of derogatory things, in “fun”, on the message when he called 3 weeks ago. It made all my friends have such strong negative reactions, (not me of course, until they said it) that I couldn’t call him back! So…I let my youngest daughter hear the message and she went, awww, maybe you could just send him congrats by email and ask him not to contact you again…to which my second daughter said “You’re asking her for relationship advice why???” along with a firm, no, do not call him! Hahaha, I love my kids!
Hg who is the little girl in the picture that was used on my letter?
Android Anna.
And why did you choose Android Anna?
This image is emotional blackmail, HG. We all want to take care of this little you.
Impossible, what is done is done, although I acknowledge the kindness of your observation.
Woulda squeeze dem widdle ccchhhheeeeekkksss!!!
If he were under a year old, I would bite his widdle cheekie-weekies.
Nothing like a nice juicy baby.
Exactly, Violetta. People think we are talking about parenting. Little do they know that Witch1, Witch2, and Witch3 just want to eat him up. “We all want to take care of you…”
I do sustainable cannibalism. As one friend stipulated when I watched her 6-month-old, “Just leave the meat on the baby, so it’s a renewable resource.”
Hahaha
I live for cute aggression. Nom nom nom baby thighs look the tastiest.
Back of the neck, toes of course, and chubby widdle cheekie-weekies. Chins, if they’re multiple.
Enough.
Look closer. Start with the “leaf”.
NA please explain because I’m slow
Witch
HG suggested that he MIGHT be showing us a younger HG. For some the suggestion will be enough to convince them that it is actually him when it could merely be a child representative of him (or not at all). Because the boy is alone and looking down we assume he is lonely and sad. He might not be at all, he may just be focused on something in his hand or lap (because we only see the leaf), or contemplating something and trying to work it out (like – if you fart underwater does it still smell for instance). We tend to view things with an overlay of our own emotion instead of assessing with logic what is actually there. We see him holding a leaf, but is it? When I look closer at the pictures I often find other things. I don’t always understand what they mean, but it can change my focus and interpretation of what I thought I saw at first glance and opens my mind to other possibilities.
And isn’t that the bigger lesson here in this place? To look closer? To use logic to see what is actually there instead of emotion to create what we want to see?
Now pass the rest of these mushrooms around and catch up…
Non-mushroom observation.
Thanks NA
I didn’t necessarily think the child must be sad. I just see a cute child so my ovaries starts popping and my heart starts blushing
An empath will read the expression and certainly apply their empathy to that in terms of the overall image. I have no problem reading a sadness here in the expression. That is what I would respond to. There does need to be a separation between emotional thinking and empathy. For me this child cries out for an expression of empathy. It’s that, and not my emotional thinking, that would want to sit beside him and ask him about the leaf he is holding, what he is thinking, how he is feeling. If the expression of sadness turns out to be founded in fact, then I would make sure to give him attention, warmth, kindness, and express an interest in what he decides to share. Even just a moment of such empathy can make the difference to a child’s life and give him a better understanding of who he is. Someone to be valued and someone who matters. Regardless of whether the image is of HG (and I don’t believe it is) it may capture of moment of his life and question us as to how we would respond. I’ve laid out my response to him and can see others have felt strongly in response to the image as well. This is a great opportunity to share thoughts around that.
LET, that made such good reading.
Thank you, AspEmp xox
It’s certainly an image that draws a response and that little boy would have the socks loved off him here <3
All children need TLC x
I’ve tried zooming up, and I still can’t see whatever it is.
HG do you use images of male blond children because you see yourself in them as a child?
Just curious
Maybe I am showing you HG when he was younger.
If that’s you, you were absolutely adorable. I’d adopt baby HG in a heartbeat and now I feel even more sad over Matrinarc
Speaking of Matrinarc, HG, was she a Greater Narcissist? When a narcissist has children that are also narcissists, are they usually of the same school/cadre?
No Lisa, she is UMR. It does not follow that the children will necessarily be narcissists of course and even if they are, it does not follow that they are guaranteed to be of the same school and cadre as the parental narcissist.
HG,
as your mother is an Upper Midrange, did she have a massive façade of being a good parent, when you were growing up?
Yes.
HG
“Yes”
Thank you for clearing my sight on these matters. Creepy part for me (and I infer for the kids on dadweeks) is for myself to understand in all the cognitive dissonance – despite what people said – that my own perception was the real one.
What a beautiful little boy HG looking so sad . I would take him to the amusement park,buy him whatever he wants and spoil him rotten. How can you resist that face. He just needs love and effection. It looks like that was missing from his life Matrinarc didnt deserve you.
That isn’t you HG. 100% positive.
Beautiful picture though.
NA, might be a fairy lying on her side. All of my Rorschach are fairies too.
TS, agree, it’s not HG. First thought was that it looks a bit like Jeremy Irons as a kid. And HG told us about thinner eyebrows.
NA, good suggestion on looking closer, zooming in. He seems to feel rather cool.
Another Cat,
Thinner eyebrows? I missed that.
TS
There were some misleading articles in pop magazines about narcissists having bushier eyebrows than nonnarcissists. HG pointed out in a comment that his are not bushy. And now that I think of it, Irons has always seemed rather empathic to me.
Another Cat,
That’s funny. Where do they get this stuff from?!
TS
Beats me, but it was easy to find two black swans. 🍹🍷
/Karl Popper
I don’t think it’s HG either but whoever he is, he is adorable. His looks and demeanor remind me much of my son when he was about 7. Deep thoughts always but seldom sad.
“Maybe I am showing you HG when he was younger”
HG what does this mean? Let’s settle this
He did say that he looks more like Daniel Craig