Losing My Grip



Do you still remember the first time we held hands? I do. I will never forget. We were walking alongside the river. I had seen you walking there on numerous occasions previously. I would pass you and see you ambling along, completely lost in your own world. I would lean against a nearby tree and watch you as you would stand on the riverbank and gaze out across the flowing river.

I would stare at the back of your head as I concentrated on working out what you would be thinking. Occasionally you would take out your ‘phone and take pictures of the river before standing once again in silent contemplation. You wore simple, sensible outdoors attire for these frequent walks. Your only concession to glamour was the scarlet scarf you wore about your neck. You were a creature of habit always taking this walk in early evening at the same time during the summer and then on the cusp of dusk through autumn and winter. You did it every day and each day you would spend some time staring out across the flowing water.

Once in a while you would make this walk with a friend and it was through her that I plotted to get to know you. You and your friend would both drive to the car park and then meet by the café on the edge of the car park and the path that wound along by the river’s edge. I noticed how you always arrived and left independent of one another. It was as if your friendship relied on being contained to this walk and nothing else. After seeing this ritual on many occasions I saw you drive away but your friend went to the café. This was my chance. Taking a replica of the scarf that you wore I entered the café and interrupted your friend as she stood in a short queue.

“Excuse me,” I smiled, ” I was walking along the path and your friend dropped her scarf, I have it here.”

“Oh thank you,” your friend replied and smiling took the scarf from my hand.

“Not a problem, did you enjoy your walk?” I asked pleasantly.

“Yes it is a lovely spot here isn’t it?”

“Absolutely and no matter what the weather or the season there is always something different to see,” I explained. She nodded and using my customary charm I found myself sat with the friend and enjoying a warm drink together. It was in the course of that discussion, a polite conversation on a chilly autumnal late afternoon that I learned your name. Once armed with this information and remembering the other shards of your life that your friend had mentioned in innocent reference I soon tracked you down on Facebook.

There I worked through your profile, admiring your photographs and finding more about you. I spent time checking through the films and books that you had liked. They were not many, only a half a dozen in each category and I noticed that Memoirs of a Geisha was one of your favourite books. I knew this book and also its author. As I worked through the pictures I saw the ones of the river where you often stood and I beneath each one you had posted the same quotation which you attributed to someone who I knew was the author of Memoirs of a Geisha.

A little later I saw you stood contemplating the river once again and this time I walked up besides you.

“Never give up for even rivers someday wash dams away,” I said. You turned and smiled at me.

“Arthur Golden,” you answered naturally recognising the quotation and referring to the author of one of your favourites books.

“Correct,” I smiled, “is that why you look out over this river every day, to give you hope?” I asked.

You looked at me as if evaluating whether you should admit me to your confidence. Your did not take long to decide.

“Absolutely. It gives me hope that by looking on something so natural and beautiful as this that it will wash certain things away.”

I knew from the way you had answered that there was more to tell but now was not the time. We talked a little while and then I left you to your contemplations. After that you always said hello and we stood and talked as little by little I was given entry into your world. From standing at that same point we moved on to walking along the river bank as we got to know one another. I took care to walk in step with you. I knew the places you liked to stop and enjoy the view, since I had watched you do so on many times before. Like other fragments of your life that I had learned, I had memorised this and used it to stand with you and comment in an appreciative fashion about the river, the trees and the way the light would strike the surface of the water.

Carefully, like the skilled artisan that I am, I would peel away a piece of your life and add it to my own as I grew to know more about you. You spoke of work, your home life and your interests. I noticed you never met your friend for a riverside walk again and it appeared that I had supplant her as your riverside companion. Each time we would walk, talk and then have a drink in the café as my knowledge about you grew. I ensured that I said the things I knew would bring about the best response from you. I knew what to say to make you interested and attentive. I could tell, for I had seen such looks before, that the way you looked at me meant more than just companionship.

Then after perhaps two weeks, maybe a little more, as we strolled along that peaceful riverbank I reached out and took your hand in mine. You did not hesitate. There was no resistance and you allowed my larger hand to engulf yours as you slipped your hand into mine. The movement was natural. You looked at me with a smile and I saw the light flare in your eyes as you felt my power surging from within. You did not let go of my hand once on that walk. In fact that became your signature. The fact you always loved to hold my hand.

No matter where we were you would take it and hold on, even twisting your movements to avoid letting go. It was as if you had vowed that whenever you took my hand you would not let it go until I decided. I saw it as your signal of intent to care for me. It was a marker, your way of telling me that no matter what happened you would always be by my side and ready to care for me.

The handholding created this marvellous connection between us. I felt your love and admiration flowing through this handhold and in return you got to savour my brilliance. It was a fantastic connection that had been fashioned in high heaven. The moment our fingers entwined the connection was established and we both got something from it. That was why it worked. That was why we worked. That was why I worked you as I did.

I took full advantage of that but then I think you wanted me to didn’t you? That was why you always held my hand until you let me down. It was only once and you let go. You were never supposed to let go. You never had before despite everything I did, you always clung on. You always gave me that reassurance but then you took it away. I realised that you had no choice but to let go but you still let me down when you did it. I can never forgive you for that. Ever.

Sometimes I can still feel your grasp sliding from mine, the fingers slipping by and then.


Lightning does strike twice.

118 thoughts on “Losing My Grip

  1. KitKat says:

    In a self-fulfilling prophecy, who lets go first?

  2. Leigh says:

    A Victor says, “I am so glad my first came along, I believe she saved me.”

    I feel the exact same way about my first born. I say it all the time. She saved my life. I was miserable and a drunk. Once I became pregnant, I knew I had to do the right thing by her. I couldn’t let her grow up the way I did.

    njfilly says, “That is what I gained from my parents; strength and wisdom. Not due to any nurturing or guidance, but instead due to their abuse and neglect.”

    So absolutely true!

    Thank you for sharing your story. I’m glad you found this blog and you feel safe enough to share.

  3. NarcAngel says:


    Thank you for sharing a bit of your story. It’s not always easy looking back, but it can be helpful to those who can relate and in moving forward.

    1. njfilly says:

      Thank you, NA. It was very thoughtful of you to comment. You are a strong, wise woman.

      That is what I gained from my parents; strength and wisdom. Not due to any nurturing or guidance, but instead due to their abuse and neglect. I assume you gained those positive traits due to the same hard lessons.

  4. Sweetest Perfection says:

    My narc confessed his love* to me while holding hands. I didn’t feel a thing. He was acting, and it showed. But I didn’t trust my gut, my gut was alerting me: “no feelings no feelings”!! Damn I sabotaged myself.

    1. A Victor says:

      Well, it seems a few of us here have done that self sabotage thing. And now we’re here, so, it’s all good. That experience might put a damper on the hand holding though. Also, from another thread, with regard to dying Albert, thank you, I now have good reason to go get the pink iridescent tree I’ve always wanted. A small one that can pop onto a shelf for the rest of the year. I’m super excited!

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        AV, yes! Enough with the self-sabotage! Get that pink tree! My mom had a silver one when I was little that we decorated with blue ornaments. I always thought it was the most sophisticated thing, it looked futuristic, intergalactic, so MET gala. We used the same one every year. I may do the same in the future though I actually expect to go back to traveling next Christmas instead.

  5. VPArribas says:

    Why is it that for most of us empaths, holding hands is such a beautiful gesture of caring in such a simplistic way. That is the first thing you take away from us; as if you always knew if was that special to us. I think I miss that more than other things that were taken away, that was intimate to me.

    Another great article HG-you make it so easy to visualize and remember. I am totally longing to forget!!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you.

    2. Truthseeker6157 says:

      VP Arribas,

      It is intimate isn’t it? It felt too intimate for me to do with my narc. The linking arms was the similar idea though. Little things. Little things can have far more meaning and be far more intimate than the obvious.

  6. lindseymarie says:

    I recall the hand holding. On our last walk together he refused to hold my hand, unless I put my hand in his pocket where his hand was. I was painted black that day. I see it clearly now but at the time it was confusing and of course hurtful. Also it was about the ever constant need for him to be in control.

  7. Truthseeker6157 says:

    I think I have a thing about holding hands. This article always gets to me for the same reason as ‘ the article that shall not be named.’ Great, I have a thing.

    1. Truthseeker6157 says:

      I’m thinking about it now ha ha.
      It’s isn’t a narc thing. I didn’t hold hands with the narc. Holding hands was too personal. I linked arms instead. The first time I didn’t think. I was cold, I’m always cold. I linked arms as we walked down the street and kind of huddled in against the cold.
      The second time we met I did it as soon as we walked out of the hotel. He smiled and said, ‘ You did that faster this time.’ I paused and asked him did he mind. He answered, ‘Not at all, I like it.’ So as we walked and talked and wandered around the Christmas market, in and out of shops, each time we came out of a shop, he would pause, for me to re link with him again. And that’s just how it went each time. Until the last hug, where he hugged me so tight my bones literally cracked and he jumped back in apology. Last time I saw him. Made myself sad now. Idiot.

      1. A Victor says:

        Was that all in the same day? Did you only see him twice ever?

        1. Truthseeker6157 says:


          We met three times. I was a LDE. It started with us being in different countries. Silent treatments inclusive, it lasted 4 years. If you search Loneliness of the Long Distance Empath, the part about the IPPS that’s an LDE is closest to how it worked, with some amendments.

          Basically, in each other’s pockets from day one. Chatting all times of the day and night, photos when we were out, in work, in a bar, work trip, holiday, at home, driving somewhere, you name it. Constant communication, first person I spoke to in the morning, last person I spoke to at night. A different kind of ever presence in that he wasn’t physically beside me but he was talking to me, constantly. Almost immediate responses to messages, even at work. He is quite literally everywhere. Can’t even stop at the mini roundabout on the way to town without recalling a conversation.

          Not as bad a situation by any stretch as many here have had it. Different, in that he is always in my head.

          1. A Victor says:

            That was my experience too! Only mine was only for three months. A continent apart. After the article on the LDE, I decided I was done, lol, it was one more step in my resolve anyway. I never even saw a picture of him. It does leave an odd ever presence. My home and yard are filled with memories of him even though he was never here. He used to send me ads for things he knew I wanted or needed, with his recommendations. He told me things to do for my boss to make myself a more useful employee. On and on it goes. I miss talking to him so much, what’s the farm, he’s far away, I’ll never met him, I fight these thoughts often, less as time goes by, thankfully. Anyway, nice to meet another who had a similar experience.

          2. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Yes. The garden, every room in the house, every place I go locally, I can’t think of anywhere he hasn’t been with me in my day to day to and fro. Yes to shopping ha ha. I said I was going to try camping, he chose my tent ( great choice) we shopped for every last piece of equipment. He helped me with Sam’s science homework, just everywhere. In my head though as most of the time he wasn’t physically there. Four yrs of being in my head. No great surprise I continue to struggle with the Fifth Sphere. Even when I am not thinking about him properly, and push the visualisation away, I can still feel him there in the background. Strange feeling. Contagion element is working against me I think.
            Is what it is. I bloody hate that phrase as well!

          3. A Victor says:

            Truthseeker, wow, so similar. And today I found out his dad died last Thurs, it keeps going even without contact. I’m glad you are free of him, I hope your mind is able to be free of him soon too.

          4. Asp Emp says:

            I agree with TS RE: contact about his dad….. his loss, not yours. Hope you are doing better now with things 🙂

          5. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Thank you AV,

            Don’t be tempted to message about his dad x

          6. A Victor says:

            Truthseeker and Asp Emp, thank you for the encouragement not to reach out. The temptation has already come and gone. Coming here, I am reminded every day why the choice to do so would be very bad. It is so great to have the support network as well as the information.

          7. Asp Emp says:

            Ah, bless you.

            “It is so great to have the support network as well as the information” – such a good statement.

            You are doing so well and it is good to see 🙂

    2. A Victor says:

      Good grief, now you’ve got my curiosity going…’the article that shall not be named.’… When it comes around again can you send me some kind of signal…?

      1. Asp Emp says:

        Laughing….. yes, it sounds interesting, I am intrigued….. laughing….

      2. Truthseeker6157 says:

        Asp, AV,

        Yes, I shall send up a flare! Xx

        1. A Victor says:

          Thank you!!

        2. Asp Emp says:

          How about a rocket and I can set it to self-detonate, resulting in a firework show?

          1. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Can I have that firework that shoots up as a tiny dot of white, then explodes into the white cascade?

          2. HG Tudor says:


          3. Asp Emp says:

            I’ve never taken it – it does more bad than good!

          4. Asp Emp says:


          5. Eternity says:

            Ha ha. I met my new neighbor last night and he wanted to shake hands. I had sanitizer in my purse luckily.He shook my hand and gave me the double squeeze.
            Right away signal Narc Alert! Like WTF I need Narc Repellent.

          6. Asp Emp says:

            What is wrong with just talking – saying ‘hello’? I would stayed at least 2 metres away and muttered ‘F.O I’m busy’…..

          7. Eternity says:

            I just came out from a run and I bumped into him again. Nothing wrong with saying hello I guess. We shall see.

          8. Asp Emp says:

            (laughing)… remember what HG suggested a couple weeks ago (when you were watching a “film” with some ‘friends’)…..

          9. Eternity says:

            Ha ha oh ya I do remember that one as well how could I forget !

          10. Asp Emp says:

            Laughing – of course, how can your forget?! Squeezing hand (in handshake terms) once is ‘acceptable’ but a bit ‘overbearing’ – that person is showing you that they are “more powerful” than you, but TWICE, is like “I am gonna take over you and your life and ruin you” type – it’s him making sure he has ‘ownership’ over you as a ‘neighnour’ and the fact he is a guy…. and if you have told him you are single – huge mistake….. be careful. That is more than ‘red flags’…… he will not make your life pleasant so you need to take “ownership” right now…….. I am saying this because you have got this far in understanding narcissism – you already know – so be less ‘open’ and try to keep your ET down, even more so, your ‘PT’ down (I know, it is easier said than done, I know!!) and raiser your LT. I understand Eternity, I understand (more than you realise) – bloody hell….. it is hard to resist the attentions of a man – never mind a narcissist. Just remember what you have learned, to date. You are vulnerable – I can’t reach you more than I can from here…… be careful x

          11. Eternity says:

            Awww thank you for caring Asp Emp I really appreciate it and I would give the same advice like you just did. He actually does not know to much about me but knows I am not currently attached. I try not to be open with people as I get burned in the end. I just try and be polite, you know what they say love thy neighboor ha ha. Being vulnerable makes you feel weak, but guess what he wont get the best of me. He may have given me the double squeeze but that is all he is going to get. If I end up going out with him I will consult with HG he has Date Defender and it is very useful. Thank you again I will be more cautious.

          12. Asp Emp says:

            Tell him he can go fk that hedge in HG’s article about neighbours – read what I said about mine (LOL) I swore so much then…. I still do. I am telling you – TELLING you – not to ‘give’ in to this guy. He is not right for you. The “handshake” was more than enough – and you, getting the fkg “sanitiser” shit out to handshake him. Shit! Damn you! That guy is not right for you, sweetie. Yeah, I wish you had gone off with that ‘hot’ guy instead. No. Actually I don’t. You need more ‘protection’ than I do. I’m getting psd off and worried. DO NOT go near this neighbour. You have to protect yourself, I am reading between your ‘lines’. He is not “safe”. If he lived next door to me – he would have no balls left to fk with, never mind smile at anyone….. it pisses me off about people (female / male) like that…. what is it with me tonight? I am no mother, no relative – but for fks sake, I will get my nails out for some creep over some ‘predator’ to protect someone like you…….

          13. Eternity says:

            Thank Asp Emp, dont worry I figured him out already. The compliments, the questions ,this man has no boundaries. He has already invited me to his place he said for a night cap ( like who says that ) Of course I declined ! I mean I am not a tramp and I would never just give myself to anyone I am a mom for god sakes. I told him I am actually seeing someone and he didn’t care .
            Anyways I will ignore him and maybe ask HG for his advice on this one ,but hopefully he will stop I think he got the message . I shouldn’t have shaken his hand but I was trying to be nice. He is very creepy and I sensed it in my gut .
            Why me? Aren’t any fucken normal men out there I feel like a magnet to these people.

          14. Asp Emp says:

            Night cap….. laughing……. translate that to ‘fill my cup’…….

            We empaths are magnets…… stay strong Eternity x

          15. Eternity says:

            Asp Emp. Exactly night cap WTF. I was thinking cap as in condom ha ha.
            I am avoiding this man and I hope I don’t bump into him.
            Thank you Asp Emp I appreciate it !
            I know we always attract them what can we do.

          16. Asp Emp says:

            laughing….. no worries, Eternity 🙂

          17. Eternity says:

            Sorry what I meant to say I am currently unattached not attached good lord.

          18. Truthseeker6157 says:

            I wasn’t talking about cocaine!! I was talking about pretty lights!

          19. Asp Emp says:

            Hey TS – I am innocent, I never said nowt about cocaine…. you know who did though!! Shoot the messenger! No doubt somebody will say oh, that’s a typo error and should have spelt as…… coconuts…..

          20. Truthseeker6157 says:


            The double squeeze? Ewww. Why not go the whole hog and do the double eyebrow raise?! Actually, thinking about it, that’s not the whole hog. Let’s not go there though!

          21. Asp Emp says:

            LOLOL…… well, it’s either a pig, or a sheep, or a cow! Or that guy…… (laughing)

          22. Eternity says:

            Ha ha you are so funny! The double squeeze indicates something I think. Just pretty strange when you meet someone for the very first time. The eyebrow raise will make it more creepy.

          23. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Ha ha Asp,

            Have no fear, I know who the culprit is and no amount of denial, projection or blame shifting will change my mind.

            I suppose they could try bribing me though.

            Midnight blue, cream leather interior, (you might need to pay your way up the waitlist), like shit off a shovel or I’m not bothered.

            Mmmm, love a little largesse on a Sunday night….

            Yeah yeah ok, I know, silent treatment incoming.

          24. Asp Emp says:

            (laughing)…. “who the culprit is” (laughing, again) “no amount of denial, projection or blame shifting” (laughing)….. damn, we are learning really well aren’t we TS? (laughing)

            Iiiiinnnnncoooommming silent treatment (laughing)……

          25. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Quiet in here….

          26. Asp Emp says:

            LOLOL….. well, It is not ME that is the problem!!

            HG is the one who is actually in ‘control’ here. You know that. I know it too. It is not actually “quiet” – it is under the ‘radar’.

            Narc Alert. They have control.

            BUT. We have the ‘power’…… it’s balanced. Yet it’s not. It’s more than ice cream thrown across the room….. it’s more than anything I have had to ‘contend’ with…….

          27. Truthseeker6157 says:


            I know, I’m teasing. HG knows I’m only playing.

            * nods* ( minus curtsey) ( that’s for emergencies only ).

            Eternity, maybe your neighbour is a Mason and you discovered the secret handshake! Actually, I think it’s to do with thumb placement. Ha ha, oh what do I know?
            I think I’m with Asp on this one Eternity. Proceed with caution. I’m not totally sure I would rule out on the basis of a double squeeze, although it wouldn’t gain favour with me either. Is he attractive? Let’s see how long it takes him to try and get a toe over the threshold! If he’s a narc, he’ll try it within days. If his name is Nigel, it’s a red flag. Not for narcissism, just never met a nice Nigel.

          28. Asp Emp says:

            laughing…….. laughing…… thank you for backing me to assist Eternity x

          29. A Victor says:

            I have always wondered what Cocaine was like, good to know.

            Eternity, I fear we are magnets for these people but knowing it is so is half the battle. Haha, or is it?? I think it’s half the battle!

          30. Asp Emp says:

            I have never tried it and do not intend to, ever.

            The knowing about being ‘magnets’ – I would say is far more than half the ‘battle’ because around 95% of narcissists are not aware of what they are – so you having knowledge gives you empowerment over the narcissists, especially when you have learnt to ‘spot them’….

          31. Truthseeker6157 says:


            He already asked you to come round for a night cap! A night cap. Seriously, on your bike mate.

          32. Asp Emp says:


          33. A Victor says:

            Asp Emp, I have not tried cocaine either and would not. Still interesting to me to know how someone describes the sensation it causes. It makes me think of how my mother always hated drinking parties of the 60’s and 70’s, for my dad’s work. She hated the way alcohol made her feel out of control, haha, so would only have one glass and nurse it the entire evening, leaving as much in it as possible.

            I am encouraged by your assessment of our power once we have knowledge. Thank you.

          34. Asp Emp says:

            Thank you 🙂

          35. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Asp, no problem! No one likes a double squeeze, unless it’s lemon in my G&T.

          36. Asp Emp says:


          37. njfilly says:

            I have done a lot of cocaine in my life. It was my favorite drug next to my top drug of choice; marijuana. I did it very often and sometimes every weekend. I have not done any since 2012.

            I used to work in a law office and my friend and I would do lines in the bathroom at work. It made the workday very fun and interesting.

            I remember going to Cape May for my one year wedding anniversary. We did lines of cocaine in the car on the way up. We stayed at a bed and breakfast and had a lot of cocaine with us. This was my first time ever at a bed and breakfast. There was no TV (which I didn’t really care about) but it was so quiet it was like staying at my grandmother’s house. We were in the room doing lines and began to get paranoid that the other guests could hear us snorting. Cocaine tends to make one paranoid. Then my husband was convinced there were people on the roof of the building across the street watching us and kept looking out the window.

            I don’t like doing cocaine with somebody who gets that paranoid. It ruins the experience and I don’t want to baby sit anybody.

            If you are interested, it gives you a feeling of excitement, euphoria, and energy. For me, I get very talkative and it enhances the sex. The first few lines are always the best, and you do line after line trying to recapture that first high, but it doesn’t work.

            Usually a person drinks also while doing lines, and by the end of the night you get “wired” which means you are spent. Tired, but at the same time wide awake, and you can’t sleep. You can no longer get that good high and you are most likely drunk also and the drugs enable you to drink more.

            Yes, the good ole’ days.

          38. Asp Emp says:

            I laughed at your experiences. Well, the “feeling of excitement, euphoria, and energy” can come in different ways, without the need for drugs. Thank you for sharing what it can feel like. I do drink wine.

          39. njfilly says:

            Yes, I agree. Natural highs can be great. I was definitely self medicating at that time and I still use cannabis edibles and drink, though not daily and not as often.

            I was a bit wild at that time but I was also simultaneously and strangely responsible.

          40. Asp Emp says:

            I get it. Totally.

            LOL, did you ever see ‘Gordon, Gino & Fred’ on roadtrips? Laughed SO much at these. Gino wouldn’t stop on the ‘doses’ of cannabis ‘drops’ on the food….. LOL, he was well fkd….. and then he’s mounting someone’s mororbike….. I love their “road-trips” – LOL, fkg hilarious…… the camaraderie, the jokes, the ‘smart-ass’ comments….. ah, fkg love it,…… (I read Gordon Ramsey’s biography on a flight out of UK – laughing – sat next to a ‘square’ passenger….. LOL)….. I don’t think Gordon is a narcissist, but HG may surprise me (again) on this one…..

          41. njfilly says:

            Well, surprisingly I’m not really a fan of “stoner” movies. I never heard of Gordon, Gino & Fred. In my day it was Cheech and Chong and I never liked them either. It sounds like it was funny. I’m sure I have played out many of those scenarios in real life!

            I don’t understand the connection with Gordon Ramsey’s biography. I know who he is but I don’t know much about him. He’s probably a narcissist. It seems like everybody is!

          42. Asp Emp says:

            LOL, it is not actually a movie! LOL. You don’t know who Gordon Ramsey is?! These 3 guys do road trips together – they are all well known chefs…….

            “17 Apr 2020 — Whilst in San Francisco, Gino D’Acampo takes Gordon Ramsay and Fred Siriex to a restaurant that infuses food with CBD and THC”.

            Gordon owns a number of restaurants and he is actually very good at what he does – he does not ‘hold back’ when he speaks his mind to somebody (laughing). I find his programmes entertaining (very rarely, anything gets ‘bleeped’ out).

          43. njfilly says:

            Oh, I see. Now I understand.

            Yes, I do know Gordon Ramsey is a chef, but I don’t know the other two. I don’t watch TV so I’m not familiar with this program. I do love a good road trip, though. I haven’t been on one in a while.

            I didn’t know there were restaurants that infuse food with CBD and THC. Do you get high from this food? Very interesting. I’m sure it’s very funny. I would like to try the food!

          44. Asp Emp says:

            May I suggest you to watch the YouTube video link I sent? Gino made me laugh….. he is the one that is the most mischievous….

          45. njfilly says:

            Yes, Asp Emp, I will watch it.

            I initially read your comments through wordpress and I didn’t realize you attached a video. It wasn’t until I went to the blog and read the rest of the comments that I saw it.

          46. njfilly says:

            I just watched that video. Thank you for sharing that! It was very funny and interesting.

            I would like to visit that restaurant. Also, that guy in the pink shirt was hot! I’d like to get high with him. He’s going to get his ass beat, though, by sitting on somebody’s motorcycle!

            I have a very high tolerance for THC since I’ve smoked it and eaten it for so long. The fact that it was illegal, was never a problem for me in finding it and buying it. (spoken off the record).

          47. Asp Emp says:

            Glad you enjoyed that video – there are more videos of their journeys around various parts of the world. You can see what I meant about Gino.

            I understand – I suppose it is like that for anyone who drink and so on.

          48. njfilly says:

            That’s funny that I thought it was a movie. Gordon, Gino & Fred’s Big Adventures!

          49. Asp Emp says:

            The 3 Little Pigs (laughing)……

          50. njfilly says:

            I would go on a road trip with them!

          51. Asp Emp says:

            Laughing….. I probably would too (just for the laughs though!).

          52. A Victor says:

            Well, njfilly, that is a very descriptive description. I was only ever around it when I was pregnant with my oldest, a fact for which I have been very glad because, being pregnant, I never tried it. I loved my alcohol way more than I should have so I think coke would’ve done me in. The alcohol is behind me 30 years or more, as difficult as it was to kick it, to not have done so would’ve made a very different life for me and many others. Quitting is where I learned the phrase “Live and let live”, a personal mantra which matches my personality, ha. And, I think the beginnings of the whole forgiveness thing started there. I thought for many years, from that time in my life, that I was defective in some way, everything was taken to extremes. It was fun but not conducive to raising children, I am so glad my first came along, I believe she saved me. Anyway, thank you for sharing, I will not wonder anymore. 🙂

          53. Asp Emp says:

            RE: alcohol – mother drank every night for I would say around 40 years……. killed her in the end and that is why I have avoided doing the same. I can understand why people do it – to try and ‘block’ out things in the mind and / or emotions (maybe in the case of narcissists – they do not know what they are, hence the instinctual need to do the same) – if you can understand…… yes, maybe ACONs self-medicate for the same reasons…… just thinking out loud (and also from my own experiences)…..

          54. njfilly says:

            A Victor:

            I’m glad you were able to stop drinking.

            It was good that you did not try cocaine. It can be very addictive. Drugs, alcohol, and children are not a good mixture. I don’t have any children.

            Even for all the drugs I did, and how out of control I was (back in the 90’s and 80’s and even some of the 70’s) I never got arrested, I never had major problems in my life because of it, and I always held good paying professional careers. I was, and still am successful, well respected, and even very stable. Often, in the past though, not emotionally stable.

          55. A Victor says:

            Asp Emp, yes, I was definitely self medicating, away from a childhood of horror to…anything else. But my desire to do well for my child outweighed this, I should’ve known at that point that I was not a hardened bad person but, there were no feelings, only that I had to do this better than had been done for me, for her sake. The feelings came much much later, and only as I have been able to absorb them. They are still often trepidatious in coming out many times but practice is helping. And feeling safer in general.

            njfilly, you were one of the lucky ones. Or one in control more than many, more than I was for sure. Glad for you. And I’m glad you’re here to share your experiences, and gain emotional stability. Thank you!

          56. Asp Emp says:

            Thank you for sharing AV. It’s not been an easy life – for many people. 🙂

          57. A Victor says:

            Asp Emp, I agree, the highs can come from so many other things that are not chemically stimulated. I actually envy people who can have a glass of wine or a beer. But, not worth it, I know it would end badly. But, as a result, I have learned to enjoy many other things that would have gone by the wayside had I been in my cups. And I have been a much more responsible person which also gives me satisfaction. But now, it sounds silly perhaps, but I actually stop and smell the roses! Or whatever flower is there. And playing games with my kids, listening to some moving music, watching a good action flick, laughing about the silliest things-belly laughs, you know? It is the simple pleasures for me now. These are also things I likely would’ve had to give up if I’d ended up with the summer narc, things I gave up in my marriage. That’s odd too, once my ex said ” You’ve changed since you’ve been with me.” He seemed almost apologetic and didn’t mean I’d changed in a good way. I couldn’t tell him, right, because you didn’t like me so now I’m a shell of a person to you. My kids saw the real me when he wasn’t around, we had tons of fun! It was almost like I was able to have a good childhood with my own children, it was very good for me. But when he came home, the tone changed, it was not necessarily bad but the free-wheeling feel left, much less fun. I don’t think he knows how to have fun really.

          58. Asp Emp says:

            It’s good that you now find other ways of enjoying aspects of life without needing to ‘self-medicate’.

            Interesting that the narcissist says that you had changed since got with him. Sometimes – I think – as MRN also did similar – making ‘statements / comments’ as if he was aware of his narcissism – hence why people get confused and say that narcissists do know what they are. That, I think, is one of the main aspects of narcissism that confounds us until we learn that the Lessers / MRNs are unaware…….

          59. A Victor says:

            Asp Emp, I am so sad for you to have had a mother who drank. My dad was a drinker and though neither is easy, I think it would be so hard if it was the mother. I know there are horrid situations with dad’s, mine was a passive drunk, so not to minimize that at all, but mothers are so central to children, I just always thought that would be really hard. I’m glad you’re here Asp Emp.

          60. Asp Emp says:

            Thank you AV. I don’t talk about her to people who have not known me (apart from on this blog) as people react shocked when I say I hated my mother…… they knew S.F.A about what she did to me.

            I am glad you are here too AV. 🙂

          61. Alexissmith2016 says:

            ASP, I hope you’re happy to be surprised re Gordon. R. He is 1000% narcy narc narc.

          62. Asp Emp says:

            have you actually read his biography to actually know for sure?

          63. njfilly says:

            A Victor:

            I just read your comment about the mood changing when your husband came home. I think we all can relate to that. I’m glad you got to be yourself with your kids while your husband was not around. I don’t know your full story but that will have helped them a lot. Do they sense that about him?

            That brings back very bad memories for me of my father. Yes, as soon as he walked into the house the entire atmosphere changed. Like he sucked all the air out of the room. I would watch for him to come home out my bedroom window, so I could avoid him. I could see by the look on his face before he even got out of his truck that things were going to be bad. Sometimes I had a feeling even before he got home that he was in a bad mood, and I was usually right. Although to be honest, he was rarely in a good mood so the odds were with me that I would be correct.

            Asp Emp;

            In relation to one of your comments; throughout the years I have tried telling various people about my parents abuse. They just wouldn’t believe me that parents would do that to their children. They would say I remembered it wrong, or I was exaggerating. Now, I don’t tell anybody anything anymore. Except here on this blog. I found it’s easier to deal with by myself then to be told I am not remembering correctly, or lying, or I should have just ignored it.

          64. Asp Emp says:

            Thank you for sharing that you had difficulties in telling people about your abuse…… you know what? That PROVES that society was “ignorant” back then and in some way they still are TODAY. Ridiculous!!

            How the fk can anyone “ignore” what they have been subject to abuse wise?!?!

            Thank god there is a place to talk it all out……

          65. njfilly says:

            Asp Emp:

            Yes, I completely agree with everything you said in your comment. For a long time I wasn’t sure I was being abused. I would tell myself, “well, at least he is not having sex with you”. (other adults were, but that’s another story).

            For many years growing up, although I knew my father was a very angry and mean person, I always thought my emotional issues were due to my mother. I believe she is a mid-range narc. Very neglectful and always with the pity parties and silent treatments when we were children. She often used me as bait for my father. Then when I was in my mid-twenties I changed and decided no, my father is the reason for my issues. It was only within the last 20 years that I came to accept that they both were abusive and were both responsible. I think I was in denial and didn’t really want to accept that I was abused and neglected.

            I always had very good intuition. I remember thinking when I was a child that my father often used me for his entertainment. Now I know how accurate that was.

            It’s strange that people told me to ignore it. I was a child and they were my parents so how could I possibly ignore it? I had no choice but to live there. Also my father would look for me just to be a dick to me. If I was in my room, he would come and find me, so I kept my door locked always and wouldn’t answer the door. If I was outside, he would go outside to where I was. There was no escape in my own house so I had to leave the house.

            When I became an adult his abuse lessened to a degree. I remember discussing my father with one of my friends. I told her how every time my father sees me he immediately has to make some negative belittling comment towards me. He can never just say hello and be nice. His comments don’t affect me. They reflect him not me. I have a solid self esteem. I know he tried his entire life to get me to hate myself but he failed. I’m pretty fucking great, and I tell him this every chance I get. This friend then also suggested I just ignore him, so I explained it to her like this; suppose you are sitting with somebody and they are throwing paper clips at your face. Those paper clips don’t hurt but they are bothersome and annoying, and you can’t ignore them because they are hitting your face. Why should you have to expend your energy deflecting these paperclips being thrown at you and allow another person to use you for their entertainment? I knew that the solution was to not be in the same room with him so he could not throw any paper clips at me. This was before I knew anything about narcissism and no contact but again, I had good intuition about what needed to be done. Now I avoid him as much as possible.

            Thank you for allowing me to vent. I don’t like to look back. I just want to forget about it and move forward.

          66. Asp Emp says:

            Thank you for sharing. Sharing your experiences with others can be good for you and also for others on the blog – present and future. Good that you are doing ok 🙂

          67. njfilly says:

            Thank you for listening. You are very kind.

          68. Asp Emp says:

            Ah, now worries & thank you 🙂

          69. A Victor says:

            njfilly, yes, my ex brought a damper to the fun. He was much more of the neglectful type than any kind of abuse. I have wondered about him being a Upper Lesser type A as many aspects of that one fit but…some really don’t too. I am planning to do a NDC on him at some point, just not yet, other things are more pressing. My kids know about him, enough. They try to love him/not hate him in varying degrees considering where they’re at at any given moment. There have been 4 contacts with my kids, them reaching out to him, in the 10 plus years since he left. These interactions have left them very disappointed, he has not changed, he doesn’t care about them. It’s sad but I am glad they don’t base their worth on it and are, for the most part, doing well.

            I also wanted to thank you and Asp Emp for sharing your stories. I hate reading negative things, so difficult, but at the same time it does help to know we’re not alone in what we experienced and we too can become thrivers despite it.

            One part that you stated, regarding not realizing you were abused, if I understand correctly, was the same experience I had. My therapist, many years ago, looked at me after I’d described a “spanking”, my mother’s term for it. She said “And you call THAT a “spanking”?! It was a light bulb moment and really changed a lot of things for me. I think coming to grips with what has happened to us can be very instrumental in our healing.

          70. Asp Emp says:

            Hi AV, yes, reading about negative experiences can be upsetting yet you saying about ‘become thrivers” – absolutely. That is what it is all about – this blog and HG’s legacy.

            “I think coming to grips with what has happened to us can be very instrumental in our healing” – and also help us to recognise our ‘weaknesses’ and build them into stronger traits (characteristics and mental = knowledge / understanding) – not just about narcissism, but more importantly, ourselves as individuals so we can better support others around us……

          71. njfilly says:

            A Victor:

            I feel very sad for your children, even though I assume they are now young adults.

            I hope they stop expecting anything from their father so that they will no longer be disappointed.

            Also, I’m sorry for what you suffered as well.

          72. A Victor says:

            Thanks njfilly, no need to feel sad anymore, but I appreciate the sentiment. I feel sad often on this site, for other people, but then I am glad they are here, that we all are. And had I not gone through the things I had, I might not be, so, it’s all good, really.

            Asp Emp, yes, getting stronger and wiser to help others, that is my goal. And also to help myself be safer. But still have some fun. Lol!!

          73. Asp Emp says:

            That’s the ‘attitude’! We will have fun – just need to keep any eye out for any future “trips & falls” and dutifully report them here…. (laughing)

          74. A Victor says:

            Asp Emp, “dutifully report trips and falls here”, love it, excellent advice! That aspect, accountability, is very valuable! Along with the fun and learning. 🙂

          75. Asp Emp says:

            ah, bloody hell…… really laughing at you using “accountability”…. LOLOLOL

          76. A Victor says:

            Hahaha, as I skip merrily away, only to be smacked down again because I wasn’t ready yet… Lololol! It is voluntary accountability to be sure!!

          77. Asp Emp says:

            LOLOL….. was it that damned lamp-post again? LOLOL

          78. A Victor says:

            Hahaha!!! Yes, that one I ran straight into because I was looking behind myself!!!

            You are hilarious Asp Emp!!

          79. Asp Emp says:

            laughing……. you should gone to Specsavers (RAOFLMAO)…..

  8. Kiki says:

    Yikes HG I’m weakening, one month no contact and stupidity I feel like the Narc didn’t bother to even check up on me .
    I know I know pathetic of me .Christmas time seems harder


    1. Truthseeker6157 says:

      Hello Kiki

      This time of year really does feel different. Triggers on both sides, emotional triggers for us and possible hoover triggers for them.

      There are some really great items in the knowledge vault ‘Distraction’ I’m also listening to the YouTube videos when I’m tasking or am in downtime. I can’t allow myself much free mental space so the audio material helps with that. I’m replaying audio packages too. My favourite being the Addiction triple package. I’m setting personal goals with running and my gym routine ( thankfully gyms reopened today). Something to aim at, then feel good about when I hit target. I’m working my way through the house too, painting room by room. Basically, I can’t let my mind wander. It does at any given opportunity. My key memories of the narc are Christmas / New Year based.

      I know you dance. Is there something there that you could work on, practice for or perfect? Something you do for yourself that you will feel really good about achieving? Try to fill the mental space. Audio material, a new binge watch of a series you like the look of. Anything to occupy your mind. You can do this Kiki. One day at a time, and something to focus on xx

    2. BC30 says:

      Kiki! I’m so happy to see you! I was thinking of you last week and how I’ve not seen you here.

      TS gives sage advice. Take it one hour, one minute or one second at a time of need be. Just remember you are loved and we support you. 💕

      1. Kiki says:

        Thank you so much Ladies I really appreciate the support.
        I’m doing ok , super busy with work right now and all school term.
        This is my second time around with this Narc , I knew what was coming and I walked well ran .
        First time around I hung on as a friend hoping he would change etc , I learned a harsh lesson from that experience.
        Feel for a Hoover after many months , was just about to be devalued / discarded again in exact same way as before.
        I swore I would never go through what I did before, I didn’t believe myself until it was about to happen and my instinct kicked in to cut him loose .

        I know I did the right thing and saved myself months of torture and emotional turmoil.
        I may have failed before but HGs advice is branded into my subconscious and I always revert back to it despite my ET.
        I do notice in my life in general I have become much more assertive and don’t let others take advantage of me anymore,maybe my boundaries for self care have strengthened.I’m not giving my power up to be controlled by someone else who treats me as an fun option or a stepping stone for their fulfilment.

        I shudder when I look back on the emotional wreck I was due to this same Narc.
        How weak I was ,I even believed my own lies so as not to confront the harsh truth .
        In truth I spent my time adoring a serial cheater , who lured me in , yet I was one of his many toys.
        A real appliance but I thought he cared.
        I no longer care if he cared or not , I just see the reality of the situation .
        One month real total no contact tomorrow 😊😊😊


  9. Eternity says:

    Let’s hold hands and go bungy jumping . Lighting may strike again.

    1. A Victor says:


    2. Asp Emp says:

      If a narcissist is involved, you’re fkd…… (laughing)

      1. Eternity says:

        Exactly, I know right .

        1. Asp Emp says:


  10. A Victor says:

    Aw, handholding was one of my favorite things, one of the things I have missed so much from my ex, we always held hands. But, not with any kind of restrictions, certainly not with unforgiveness if one of us had to let go. It was always nice just to get back together again when we next could. It was one of the things that kept me trying with my ex, I loved it so much. I’d probably even let him come hold my hand now for a walk or a movie or something. As long as he didn’t talk to me. And left right away after.

    1. Carolina says:

      I miss that too, I love holding hands.

  11. Asp Emp says:

    “Lightning does strike twice” – good to know.

    Reading what I said the last time this article appeared – MRN is no longer applicable (he is erased out of the ‘picture’). Maybe, no more supanovas – at all.

    All will be calm…… maybe with a few lightning clashes. Storms can be exciting, followed by hush…..

Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

Previous article

Evil : Imagine Greater

Next article

The Lesser