I Love You, And I Always Have



This is a well-used phrase by our kind and is wheeled out with regularity during love-bombing. At face value and of course that is how you will take it because you are in the midst of a veritable whirlwind of compliments, flattery and passion, this seems a straight forward enough comment to make.

However there is far more to it than meets the eye. Just as we operate from a different perspective to you, we also utilise language in a different way and one of the key ways of tackling our kind is to understand what we are REALLY saying when we use these delicious phrases and appealing comments.

So, what do my kind really mean when we say “I love you and I always have”?

My need to seduce you is considerable and therefore I will use language which will appeal to you and be so outlandish that it will blow you away. I do not actually love you. I do not love in the way that you do. I understand that the closest I come to it is infatuation. I am not in fact infatuated with you but more precisely with what you can do for me.

My needs are paramount. Yours are largely irrelevant. I write irrelevant because I do take them into account during the seduction but after that they are thrown to one side, but that is something different and not the purpose of explaining what I mean when I say the above phrase to you.

I say I love you and mean I am infatuated with you. I am infatuated with three things that you will give me through my successful seduction of you.

  1. Fuel, the most important item;
  2. Useful traits which I can apply to my construct and parade as my own achievement, characteristics and accomplishments to make me appear even more attractive to you and other people (and thus get more fuel); and
  3. Residual benefits such as a roof over my head or getting you to pay for things.

I want those three things. I want the fuel most of all but the other two matter as well. To get those things I need to seduce you. To seduce you I need to say things like this, grand statements which will amaze you and sweep you off your feet. Why will it have this effect? Well, because you are a love devotee. As an empathic individual one of your traits is that you are a love devotee.

This means you belief very much in the concept of love, how love is wonderful, how love can conquer all, how love crosses any boundary and love is amazing, splendid and the best thing in the world. I know you are a love devotee because I have studied you before I approached you. With this knowledge I know that making a statement like the one above will resonate with you considerably for the following reasons: –

  1. As a believer in love you want to hear that someone loves you;
  2. You want this love to be grand, sweeping and extraordinary. By explaining that I have always been in love with you, I achieve this. It is a statement which conjures up images in your mind’s eye of me waiting for years before I picked my moment to tell you, of me sitting with my love burning away and how you have never noticed. It appeals to you to think in such terms. It is romantic and glorious.
  3. I will have plausibility on my side. I may know you already as we may be friends or colleagues. I may be a neighbour. I may be your therapist even. If I do not know you in detail, we may know each other by sight and the occasional hello from attending the same gym or such like. You may not know me but I will generate (fabricate) a back story that I have watched you from the coffee shop every day as you walk past (once I have established that you do so) and I have been in love with you. This plausibility overcomes any natural hesitance you may have. The immensity of the love factor in this statement will overcome any slight scepticism you may have, that having been eroded already by the plausibility.

Saying this statement is a direct shot at your heart and is part of the harpoon strike that we engage in when we are seducing a victim.

It is not true however. We have chased plenty of people before you. We may have only set eyes on your two days ago and we do not love in the manner that you do. Everything about this statement is false, it serves our purpose to seduce you and to do so quickly.


78 thoughts on “I Love You, And I Always Have

  1. Asp Emp says:

    Since there is conversation about animals…… I watched a programme about Meerkats last week and found myself thinking, the way a meerkat ‘kingdom’ works was almost ‘narcissistic’ in behaviours and it was interesting to observe how meerkats behave – simply, in order to ‘survive’ and ensure that the relevant ‘kingdom’ continued to exist….. and basically, even a ‘blood’ sister or brother “stepped out of line”, they were ‘ostracised’…… and this is one type of animal.

    However, I thought I would share a short video….. (laughing – I LOVED this)…..

    1. njfilly says:

      Ha ha! So funny! Thanks for sharing! I love that the one bounced off the camera!

      I think I started the conversation. Where ever I am a conversation about animals usually follows! (Assuming there are willing participants.)

      1. Asp Emp says:


        So, you are the one who should be ‘condemned’ to wearing purple (for guilt) for the rest of your life…… (laughing)…… actually it is my favourite colour……. ah, fk, but I am STILL not guilty……. of ANYTHING…… (laughing)…..

        1. njfilly says:

          Ha ha! Yes, I am guilty but I included talk of narcissism mixed with the talk of animals to keep the conversation blog relevant.

    2. A Victor says:

      Asp Emp, I visited friends in England last year and the first thing we did was visit a meerkat place! We got to go right in and sit with them and pet and feed them and they climbed on us, it was so much fun!! I always thought they were stinky, like a ferret but they were delightful! Thanks for sharing the fun video!

      1. Asp Emp says:

        Lucky you to get the opportunity to spend time with meerkats. They have always interested me. Glad you enjoyed the video.

  2. Sweetest Perfection says:

    “I love you, and I always will.” Give me an F! Give me a U! Give me a big F. U.!!!

  3. Empath007 says:

    On another note.

    Does anyone else find people who they are close with think they are crazy for believing HGs works ?

    I became upset last night because a close friend of mine was claiming I am taking all this too seriously… when I barely even talk about it.

    People do not want to believe this personality disorder exists, and it exists within people they know and love. As a truthseeker, I was personally thrilled when I came across this website… suddenly, nearly every piece of the puzzle had been put together for me. It’s infuriating how people look at me like I’m deranged for simply trying to explain someone else’s behavior.

    No one wants to hear the matter of fact truths. Everyone wants fluff. Fluff keeps the masses happy. And keeps the narcissists in control… right where they want to be.

    1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

      Dearest Empath007,
      “Does anyone else find who they are close with think they are crazy for believing HG’s works ?
      Yes yes and more yes !
      People don’t like it when you appear to be more knowledgeable than them on a subject they know nothing about…..that also applies pretty much in general 😂
      Swap the word ‘narcissist’ for ‘abuser’, then they appear to listen somewhat
      There’s just something about that word people are unsure of and is off putting to them
      We are now armed with Mr Tudor’s secrets on human behaviour and they are scared we can see straight thru them ….. and they don’t like it….. perhaps we know too much and have caught them out which makes them now feel awkward unsettled open and vulnerable ….. nobody wants or likes that !
      Again, absolutely yes, you’re bang on about the fluff !
      Luv Bubbles xx 😘

      1. Empath007 says:

        Good call Bubbles ! I didn’t think about that yesterday but people do not want to be called out on their own behaviour or behaviour of those they love.

        I have the truth. And that’s all I need to have !

        1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

          Dearest Empath007,
          It also entails criticism, negativity and it’s giving you the upper edge of supposedly knowing them better than they do, which is basically a put down on their judgment of a flawed character and that’s a big no no ….. phew !
          However, If someone actually uses the word ‘narcissist’, my little ears do tend to prick up along with my twitching whiskers 😹
          As long as we know … that’s all that counts and matters
          Luv Bubbles xx 😘

    2. njfilly says:


      My one friend was fascinated at first when I began to explain to her about narcissists which I discovered due to my ex boyfriend being one. She knew of his unstable behavior patterns. Then months later when I told her my father was also a narcissist (confirmed with a NDC and she knows he was and is abusive to me) and that I believed my mother and brother were also, she then began to get skeptical claiming “everybody can’t be a narcissist”. I only believe they are but it has not been confirmed with a NDC.

      Possibly I brought it on myself, though, when I told her I believed my cat, Foxy Shadow, was also a narcissist. Foxy thinks she owns me, and wants to use my body as her bed whenever she wants, and insists on using my hands for her pleasure. I love her, though, so what can I do?

      I believed my ex when he said “I love you and I always have” but of course I am so damn loveable why wouldn’t I believe this if it were said to me?

      1. lickemtomorrow says:

        I don’t think other people realize how shell shocked you are when you start racking up the numbers of narcissist’s in your own life! It truly is devastating, and people find it hard to believe because they haven’t been impacted themselves. It will always be the same, especially when the narcissist has built up a nice neat little facade to protect themselves and make sure the truth never gets out. Take the cat for instance … I’m sure everyone thinks she’s adorable <3 We're fighting an uphill battle.

        1. njfilly says:

          Yes. People just don’t want to believe.

          In the past when I have mentioned some of my parents behavior it always got minimized or disbelieved. It’s so horrible to people they just can’t believe it, imagine what it was like to live it! This is usually what I say to them. I’m lucky, though, that my parents don’t have much of a facade and they are viewed as a bit strange by some people. They just don’t know the full extent of it.

          As for the cat, many people believe she’s the devil!

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            It’s a re-victimization when you are disbelieved and it (to use an HG expression) “boils my piss” when that happens. Which is why I don’t even usually try to explain.

            More recently an old friend who I was in contact with over Christmas asked me to give my mother a hug. She has lost her own parents over recent years and obviously wanted to give me the reminder to appreciate my only living parent. She doesn’t know I haven’t been in contact with my mother for over two years. I’m not going to tell her. Most people don’t know what my mother has done to me. It would be too hard to explain. They see the surface, I see the underbelly. And she is very ‘covert’, as in passive aggressive. It was underhand and ensured the facade remained intact. How do you tell people about things that aren’t obvious, remain hidden and which often you are the only one privy to experiencing?

            People will not believe it if they cannot see it, and regardless of what you tell them, you are up against the narcissist’s facade. And don’t forget their minions. It is a total sensation of wasting your breath to try and tell someone who has not experienced narcissistic devaluation, gaslighting, blame shifting, etc. that this is real and it happened to you. How often do we hear in various contexts “show me the evidence?” Firstly, you have to want to see the evidence. And most people don’t.
            They want to accept that parents are the idealized versions so often projected, and which they may have had the good fortune to experience themselves. People need to wake up! Don’t tell me to hug my mother. I can’t stand for her to touch me. She is a narcissist.

            LOL to the cat, btw 😛 I guess she doesn’t have much of a facade 😉

          2. njfilly says:

            I agree it’s a re-victimization. I hate being disbelieved. I am not a liar.

            I completely understand your situation with your friend. You are better off not trying to explain it.

            A friend of mine suggested I sit down with my father, attempt to reconcile, discuss it and clear the air, even though this friend is aware of my parents abusive behavior. Although I had no intention of doing that I said to her “This has been ongoing for over 50 years. Do you really think one more conversation is going to make a difference? That this will finally be the conversation that get’s through to him? Our difficulties are not a misunderstanding. He is abusive and accepts no responsibility for it”. She finally relented that I must know best. I agree with you that because they are our parents people can’t accept that the relationship cannot be fixed. Good job on going NC with your mother.

            My Foxy howls like a banshee! She scares people!

          3. A Victor says:

            njfilly, you just helped me realize why it may be easier for me talking to people sometimes, my mother’s facade is not very good, in front of tertiary victims especially. She keeps it in tact the most around her extended family, they all love her and would be quick to defend her if I tried to say anything to them. But tertiary sources have been shown enough, she doesn’t care with them. This fits her LMR status I guess. And the fact that my ex was the one to leave spoke to people, though it took a while with some, about that situation. I don’t talk to people about either of them much though, no point.

          4. njfilly says:

            Well, I’m glad I could help.

            My father is a MLS. I don’t know if lessers have a facade. He does not. Everybody who knows him knows he is an angry, difficult person.

          5. A Victor says:

            njfilly, my understanding is that lessers don’t have a facade, maybe upper ones do a little.

          6. njfilly says:

            That explains my father then.

          7. lickemtomorrow says:

            Thanks njfilly for sharing that similar situation where others try to encourage our contact with narcissistic parents. They don’t realize they are enablers, in terms of encouraging ongoing abuse, and believe that relationships can be fixed with a little effort on both people’s parts. That’s the frustrating part about narcissism, and especially if the narc has a good facade. But it sounds like your friend was encouraging you even being aware of your father’s abusive behaviour. I’m glad she took your word for it and backed off from her attempt in the end. It’s hard enough to go no contact without someone trying to convince you it is the wrong thing to do.

            Oohh, is Foxy your kitty cat’s name? Don’t think I’d like to hear her howl 😛

            The one who likes to groom me is called Tiger Lily. The other is called Neon x

          8. njfilly says:


            Oh, I love your cat names!! I like how you chose Tiger Lily rather than just Tiger. I never had a cat named Tiger despite it being quite common.

            I am not NC with my father as we live on the farm together, but I keep the contact to a minimum and on my terms only. If he calls me I don’t answer, and I decide if I want to return the call. It’s working for me, for now.

            The funny part about my friend is that she also had an abusive childhood, and although her parents are deceased she has siblings she no longer speaks with. I don’t blame her though. I realize her suggestion was coming from compassion and care, but it was bad advice. Luckily I knew enough not to take her advice.

            My cat’s full name is Foxy Shadow. She was a stray who found her way into my office. I don’t know how she did this since I always had cats and they were never able to get into the office. There is no way in that I can see, so I’m a bit confused. My father initially saw her in there and told me about it. Then when I went to retrieve her I couldn’t find her, and my office is not very big. The next day I saw something had eaten a portion of the toilet paper roll and a cotton glove. Then I found her, starving and very skinny, hiding in a 4″ space behind the file cabinet next to the wall. The poor thing was skinny and starving. I lured her out with food and she was very friendly and became my only inside cat. 8 years ago. This is how she got her name.

          9. lickemtomorrow says:

            Thanks for sharing more of your story, njfilly.

            I understand you friend was coming from a place of compassion, and mine was coming from a place of appreciation for her own parents and what that meant for her. I never assume bad intentions and for the most part it is up to us how we view it and respond. I didn’t tell my friend I would give my mother a hug, I just thanked her for the general good wishes contained in the message. I understood where she was coming from. At the same time it didn’t prompt me to try to explain to her why I would not want to give my mother a hug. She doesn’t need to know. And worst case scenario she might try to argue in my mother’s favour. Or at least for some type of reconciliation. I wasn’t going to open up the conversation for that possibility to occur.

            I see that you have worked out a way to manage your situation and for each of us it is different. No one else is living our lives and only we can know what works best for us. The main thing is we become more empowered and ultimately weaponized in the circumstances <3

            The story of how your cat found you is sweet xox She probably wouldn't have survived without you. And is very lucky to have you. I'm glad she's found a forever home where she can be loved and looked after. And I see she has two names as well. Tiger Lily's name gets shortened to 'Lilty' sometimes. That's the problem with having a double barreled name. There's a temptation to shorten it for the purposes of brevity 🙂

          10. njfilly says:

            You sound like a smart, stable lady. I hope you are healing and become weaponized!

            It’s funny when you are talking about hugging your mother; I honestly cannot recall ever hugging either my mother or my father. Even my grandparents were cold and we didn’t hug. Then when I was with my husbands family for a short time, they hugged for everything. They hugged hello, they hugged goodbye, etc. I found it very annoying and didn’t want to do it at first since it wasn’t what I was used to. I don’t remember how I dealt with it, but I didn’t hug for every little thing like them.

            This coincides with a Seinfeld episode. It’s amazing how much, of my life at least, can be explained through Seinfeld episodes!

            Very cute that your cat’s nickname was Lily rather than Tiger. I had a horse named Lilly. Her full name was Lady Lillian, although she was an Icelandic horse and technically all Icelandic horses are supposed to have Icelandic names. I bought her locally and she didn’t come with any papers so her breeding could not be verified.

            In Iceland they will export their horses but they do not import any horses. They have only the Icelandic horse which is one of the direct descendants of the original wild horse, the Przewalski’s horse. FYI 🙂

          11. lickemtomorrow says:

            Thanks, njfilly 🙂 I find your comments refreshing and enjoy hearing about your ventures. You are refreshing in your openness and honesty which helps us all I think <3

            Your experience of hugs is interesting, too. We know from what HG has told us that narcissists don't like to hug or probably not much of any kind of physical contact. I have turned it round on the narcs in my life to apply the same level of distaste to their touch as they apply to mine. Not that I knew they disliked touch/hugs, but with my mother it always felt fake anyway. It never felt like a warm embrace, but an unpleasant necessity for the purposes of the facade, and now I know that's what it is. Which no doubt applies to your parent's as well. Not having had the experience of those warm and genuine embraces I'm sure you did freak out with your ex-husband's family's constant use of affection. I can imagine it was very disconcerting.

            My children and I are very affectionate and very much as you describe you ex-husband's family. Always hugs and kisses on arrival and departure. My children will still sit beside me, snuggle up to me, and enjoy a level of physical contact and they are all young adults now. Well, count my son out of that equation, but he's not averse to a hug and kiss from his mom still 😛 My middle daughter as a baby would often twirl my hair with one hand as she was fed. She still does that now. Maybe it's something about me and my hair! The cat loves it, too 😛

            Anyway, going back to what you were saying, I don't remember ever being held by my mother as a child. The older I became the more I recoiled from her touch, which was minimal and often the only time was when she touched me with freezing cold hands thinking it was a joke. Of course, I instantly recoiled from that touch. But I think I would have been open to hugs and affection as a child if I'd received any.

            I love to hear about horses. I have an affinity with them even though I've never ridden one on any regular basis. That's so interesting about the Icelandic horses and you gave yours a very regal name <3 I'll bet she's beautiful. My middle daughter visited Iceland just before the pandemic hit. I believe it's beautiful, too.

            And lol to the Seinfeld reference. I'm going to have to watch it sometime. I've heard so many reference to that show and the main memorable one for now is "No soup for you!" At least I think that's from Seinfeld xox

          12. njfilly says:

            I was very uncomfortable with my husband’s family and their hugging. I thought it was odd at first. They were a larger family than mine, and they came from a farming background. I remember once going to a family event on a Sunday and all the women were wearing flowered dresses and I was wearing black pants, black leather boots, and a black top. Ha ha! Although I did also wear flowered dresses as I still do. That family was also religious, like mine.

            That’s a really sweet story about your children. I’m sure they will have many fond memories of you and their childhood.

            I would love to visit Iceland.

            I was a big Seinfeld man.

          13. njfilly says:

            My comment was supposed to read that I was a big Seinfeld fan (not man).

            Also, I was mistaken about the Seinfeld episode I referenced. Jerry Seinfeld was against kissing hello, not hugging hello. I am against both. It was suggested that an intercourse hello might be more to his liking. Now, depending on the person I were greeting, I would be interested in an intercourse hello, assuming no hugging and kissing were involved!! The sad thing is, I am only partially joking.

          14. lickemtomorrow says:

            Haha, njfilly, sounds like you fitted right in with you husband’s family 😉 I’ll bet you shook things up a bit, or quite a lot. That does everyone good sometimes xox

            And thanks for your comment about me and my children. We have close relationships and enjoy eachother’s company <3

            I think there are quite a few Seinfeld fans out there and I think a lot of people took some life lessons from that show. I can't be sure, but the quotes keep coming up 🙂

      2. BC30 says:

        Hahaha All cats are highly narcissistic, but I can’t believe they are narcissists.

        1. njfilly says:

          I don’t believe they are narcissists either. I have had many cats that I knew really loved me.

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            I have a cat sleeping beside me right now 🙂

            No offense to cats, I just picked up on the narcissist element of their nature xox

          2. njfilly says:

            I sleep every night with one beside me, or on top of me!

          3. A Victor says:

            Sleeping with a cat is one of the things I miss. They were my favorite animal until I got my bird, can’t sleep with her, sadly. I do not miss the litter boxes though so it’s a fair trade.

          4. njfilly says:

            Well, it’s true that cleaning the litter boxes isn’t pleasant, but neither is cleaning the bird cage.

            My cats were always fascinated by my birds. I was more concerned with my Moluccan harming the cats, than the cats harming the Moluccan!

          5. lickemtomorrow says:

            Ha, njfilly, they like to search out the heat … and sometimes even wrap themselves around your head! I don’t let pets into my bedroom at night, but we have two cats and they like to sleep on the bed during the day. I was sitting on the settee with one curled up beside me when I posted. I’m not particularly partial to pets for the most part. Probably because my mother hated animals and only suffered them begrudgingly. To her mind they would have been ‘dirty’ and she was all about cleanliness. Unfortunately some of her influence has stayed with me. I don’t connect with animals the way many people do. But I have embraced them as members of the family so my children could enjoy them and benefit from the experience. One of them will actually sit on the arm of the settee at times and ‘groom’ me the way a mother cat might groom her kitten 😛 She gets my hair in her mouth and nibbles at my scalp. Sometimes she gets a little too enthusiastic!

          6. njfilly says:

            Aww! How cute!

            Cats are allowed on my bed but not dogs.

          7. NarcAngel. says:

            Dogs are allowed on my bed but not narcissists.

            Oh be quiet HG!

          8. HG Tudor says:

            You aren’t friends with Amber Heard are you NA?!

          9. njfilly says:

            Ha ha! Narcissists are the dogs I was referring to!

      3. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Dearest njfilly,
        Haha …. dogs have masters and cats have slaves !
        Narcissistic traits ……hell yeah, cats do damn well whatever they please ……let’s all be more like a cat 😹
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        1. njfilly says:

          Ha ha! Oh, Bubbles, you are so right! I love that! I have been both master and slave and sometimes simultaneously!

          My life has revolved around animals. They saved me. I had something to love and they loved me back.

          1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest nfilly,
            I luv animals (they luv me too), sadly two of our kids are allergic to cats n dogs (my mum had sheep goats chooks, n ducks)
            I had to resort to little fishies when the kids were growing up, not quite the same as having a beautiful fur ball
            I’m the same as you, gimme an animal any day 😻
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          2. njfilly says:

            Dear Bubbles:

            Back when I wanted children I used to think about what I would do if I had a child who was allergic to animals because I don’t like to exist without them in my life. I never had children so, problem solved.

            Did you grow up on a farm? I never had sheep or ducks but I love goats. I didn’t know what chooks were so I had to google it! I love chickens too. I should stop naming individual species that I love since obviously I love them all.

            I seem to have a way with animals. I believed this myself, and then people in my family noticed it and mentioned it to me as well. Animals just seem to be drawn to me. At least several times in my life strays and injured animals found their way to me. Not just onto my property but literally crying at my doors. I didn’t think anything about it until it kept happening and I wondered what were the odds of this and does this happen to other people?

            I also had fish when I was young and although they were very colorful and I enjoyed them I prefer a more “hands on” type of pet. I also didn’t enjoy cleaning the fish tank!

          3. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest njfilly,
            I mainly grew up with cats, I used to rescue dumped kittens from the nearby creek
            Mum bought a sheep property in my teens. Mr Bubbles n I used to help with the fleeces after shearing, it was more for the sale of wool!
            Our two kids became allergic with sneezing, bites n rashes. Our daughter knows when we visit my mum cos when I bring her washing home. there’s cat hair on everything …..sets her off ! Good excuse for them not visiting my narc mum 🤣
            I get my fix when I visit, I play with my mum’s 2 cats ! (She had 33 strays once)
            Our eldest son and partner are planning to get a dog soon, so it looks like I’ll be the babysitter …. hehe
            One of our nieces does equestrian, so we pretty much covered haha
            I was the one who copped cleaning the fish tank ….. 🐠🐟
            Oh yes, here Down Under, we abbreviate everything, (including people’s names), we will lengthen short names and shorten long names, also, I am classified as an ‘Ol chook’ 😂
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        2. A Victor says:

          Bubbles and njfilly, I love fish too, they’re tied for second, 3 way tie, with cats and chameleons, we had two of these, they’re amazing. Watched them eat hornets, bees, spiders, mosquitoes etc, all the bugs we don’t love. And they were personable, as reptiles go and not fast moving, which I don’t care for.

          Fish are wonderful in any form, for sport, as food, just to look at, on the wall, even dancing on the wall singing “Here’s a little song I wrote…” Just love them.

          Chooks are cute, I had to look them up too, and it is very interesting to learn about Australia and the other various places people here come from.

          1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest A Victor and njfilly,
            I’m surprised you both had to look up the word ‘chook’
            Growing up, almost everyone had ‘chooks’ in their backyard, we never really referred to them as chickens, always chooks ! Howsa bout a roast chook for dinner tonight luv ? 😂
            Chameleons … just like narcs haha
            Luv luv luv bees 🐝 Plus we have a bluey (tongued lizard) living in our back yard
            Ahh, there ya go, gotta luv the Aussie slang ! 🤣
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          2. A Victor says:

            Hi Bubbles, I like bees too, I should’ve considered my wording better! There was one of those nasty aggressive bumble bee looking ones once, and some of the waspy/hornet types. Never honey or bumble bees, they were protected! Never fear!

          3. njfilly says:


            Firstly, there is no way cats are tied with fish and chameleons! They are way above! That’s like saying horses are tied with Aardvarks and platypus! Ha ha! There is no way! Ok, just kidding. You’re entitled to your own rating system (flawed as it is).

            I love fish too (as food). I eat a lot of fish. Particularly salmon and locally caught trout.

            I’m glad further down in the comments you were specific about bees. I love bees, too. This year I may have a local man set up some hives on my property in exchange for some honey. I eat a lot of honey. It is the food of the gods and should be eaten by everybody.

            Did your chameleon actually change colors?

      4. A Victor says:

        njfilly and LET, the people I talk to sometimes don’t understand how the magnet thing between narcissists and empaths works and have a hard time believing I can have so many around me. But I think that makes my experience with them higher than they might have if they are normal. Also, my son, for example, says no one except a professional can diagnose someone with something so serious. He doesn’t accept that there are specific and clear indicators and is unwilling to hear this at this time.

        1. njfilly says:

          Yes, it’s difficult explaining to people, so I no longer do.

          Even professional diagnosis can be wrong. I “diagnosed” my parents as being crazy a long time ago. I used to tell people how living with them is like being in an insane asylum. I didn’t realize how accurate I was.

          1. A Victor says:

            I agree about the professional diagnosis, we have all known forever that my mother has issues. And I don’t think there is any “professional” diagnosis superior to HG’s but there are people who are not ready to hear that. My dad’s NDC will be going in this weekend, I feel like I grew up in an insane asylum too, but I really hope it was just her.

          2. njfilly says:

            Well, I hope you find the answers you are seeking.

            I have only done the NDC on my father even though he was the most obvious narc. I had just learned about it, so I wanted to be sure I was understanding what I was reading. It kind of blew my mind but fit perfectly into place.

            I believe my mother and brother are also narcs but I’m not sure I will do the NDC on them. There is no need really. I will just assume they are.

            My brother and I had a falling out Thanksgiving of 2019 when I saw his true colors very clearly, so we have not been speaking for over a year, which suits me fine. I have no intention of attempting to reconcile. He always had a bit of an edge to him, and did things that made me shake my head in wonder. Since my learning, my vision is becoming quite clear. When I look back at my childhood, if it wasn’t my father being cruel to me, it was my brother. (with my mother it was silent treatment or cold fury). I assumed because our father was cruel to both of us, he then took his frustrations out on me. He was a bed wetter when he was young. I think that may mean something psychologically, but I’m not sure.

            I always thought my brother was a bit jealous of me because I had many friends, participated in many activities and socialized a lot, while he was a loner and spent most of his time in his room and on the internet (this was in the 80’s and yes we had computers in our house and the internet, but we had to pay for it). Now strangely things have reversed. I don’t know that he is popular but he socializes are lot more than I do now. I have friends but I prefer to be alone. I can be a sever loner and isolate myself for extended periods. My friends invite me out but I decline.

            Sorry for “talking” your ear off! Just venting.

          3. A Victor says:

            No worries njfilly, I appreciate people sharing their stories, it helps me to feel not so alone in my situation. My brother moved out at 18 for college and never moved back, which was fairly normal for that time, early 80’s. He has lived 5 hours away for about 30 years and we’ve seen him about 4 times. He came for 1/2 of our fathers funeral. I don’t believe he is a narcissist, I believe he was deeply hurt and has spent his life trying to be normal and forget. I think also that, as a boy, our mothers abuse in some ways was the worst for him. Then at about 16 he tried to speak up and in one of two times I saw my father take on a disciplinary role, he put my brother up against the wall and told him to never speak to his mother like that again. It was horrible, my father had no idea what she’d been doing to us and my brother felt abandoned by him, he blamed our dad for allowing her abuse of us.

            My sister moved away about 30 years ago also, about as far as she could get and stay on the continent, we’ve seen her about 4 times since also. I believe she is very probably a narcissist. I will not be doing a NDC on her as the involvement is so limited it wouldn’t make sense and I don’t need to know. But, I know her son is scared of her, which breaks my heart and I know that the last time I saw her, she and her husband asked me to move in to be a sex surrogate for her, since she doesn’t enjoy it. But she would still be the top female in the house. Okay, as stunning as this may sound to you, ha, you can imagine hearing it in real time. And, she is so abusive with her mouth, I still can’t imagine what my life would’ve been like, what they were thinking. Sick. She still hasn’t responded to the news of our fathers death, also blaming him. She was the youngest and so endured the most years of the brutal abuse. She is a broken person, as I am, but I believe went the other direction with it.

            Family stuff is hard. I think knowing about my father one way or the other will help another piece of my puzzle fall into place. He is the last one, I think, for the past. Then it will be moving forward, once the past has been sorted. Thank you for listening! All of these bits and pieces finding a place here help with the sorting.

          4. njfilly says:


            It sounds like you had a difficult childhood. I’m sorry to hear that. I’m also sorry you consider yourself a broken person, but I have referred to myself in that way too.

            It’s good you have such limited contact with your sister. That was a bizarre proposition they gave you. Apparently they think nothing of it and don’t see it as strange.

            I only saw my brother for holidays and birthdays anyway despite we live in the same town. I don’t miss him and I don’t attend those events with the family anymore. Finally, I feel free.

          5. A Victor says:

            njfilly, I am so happy for you that you finally feel free! Broken doesn’t mean unfixable, it will just mean there are some scars but that’s ok.

        2. lickemtomorrow says:

          Magnet is one of my Cadres, AV, and I also attract the narcs unwittingly. So many things are beginning to make so much sense now. And it’s quite shocking when you realize how you may just as well have been walking around with a “Target” sign on your back the whole time. And I’m not just talking about romantic relationships, but also friendships, workplace colleagues, even random strangers.

          I hear you on your son and I think I’ve said before I don’t broach the topic with my children in relation to their father at all. They still have contact with him and he continues to operate with his facade, that being made easier to do due to the lack of physical proximity and their early separation from him. I also think that helps them maintain a more idealized image of their father. I wonder if your son also holds an idealized image of his father? One that he doesn’t want to be separated from? Mine still has a hand in and the kids will occasionally note a crack in the facade, but it would be much harder to convince them without them having been subject to that abuse in an ongoing fashion. I rescued them. And on the basis of that, unwittingly, have enabled their father to maintain his facade. Your husband leaving when your son was still young and unaware in some ways may have enabled the same thing to happen.

          I would want the children to understand so they also know what to avoid, as well as being able to acknowledge any mistreatment at their father’s hands, but it can be difficult to get them to see past an idealized image they have created for their own purposes.

          1. A Victor says:

            Hi LET, I am sorry, my comment was unclear as I used the word magnet meaning the attraction narcs have to empaths and the addiction empaths have to narcs. I have no Magnet cadre, though I sometimes wish I had some. I can see people in different aspects of my life that I wonder about too but none close enough to concern myself with. I work from home and socialize very limitedly, with my children and a couple of friends. I go to church, not much since Covid, and there are several people there that I avoid like the plague. That’s my current, boring life, and I am loving it! Low stress as I am working through this learning process.

            My son holds no idealization of his father. When I divorced his father in 2019 I was concerned that he, at 17 and not wanting to see his father, would not want to get on the stand and tell a judge this, especially if his father attended the proceedings. When I asked him how he felt about this, he looked at me like I was nuts and said “Mom, he left, I don’t care, I will tell the judge with no problem.” I have never spoken to my son about his father being a narcissist as he is so resistant to the whole idea, he did not like the summer narc at all, thought he was pompous, arrogant, intrusive and dishonest. He did not think this at first but it didn’t take long, as a ULA that narc was quite obvious. Anyway, my son is 18 now, at some point he may wish to see his father, I would worry for his emotional safety but not for my son’s understanding of the situation. His father showing no desire to see our kids has spoken volumes to them, they see that this is not love. One last thing, I find it so interesting that for all of my son’s resistance to narcissism, he comes up with the same advice so often, I find this a bit funny actually, maybe at some point my son will see the humor too. Thank you for your thoughts!! I love reading them!

          2. lickemtomorrow says:

            Thanks for sharing more on your son and your situation, AV. He seems to have the understanding in hand which is the main thing. And he sounds like a very courageous and supportive young man <3

            Yes, I did misunderstand when you mentioned "magnet", and the reality is that narcs are drawn to us either way. No more letting the guard down on my part!

    3. A Victor says:

      Empath007, I have come across that in a few, not the majority for me, but I do feel that your observation is the reason this blog is so valuable. This is a rabbit hole and it is a dark one, not many can or want to immerse themselves in it like those of us who’ve been directly and earth-shatteringly affected by these people do. We are very blessed to have the opportunity to learn and share with others like ourselves who do really get it.

      1. BC30 says:

        AV, why do you wish you had some magnet cadre? No judgment, just curiosity here.

        1. A Victor says:

          I would like to not dislike small talk as much as I do. And I would like to be a bit more open to people. They love me but many of them love to push me around so over the years I’ve gotten more and more people averse. Maybe a Magnet wouldn’t feel pushed around, or at least not mind it. I hate it. I feel like what I look like doesn’t correlate with my feelings, I look approachable, unless I put on my rbf, which I don’t like to do. Maybe Magnet would reduce this a bit. That’s all. 💕

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            AV, I also dislike small talk and I think the Magnet cadre relates more to the fact others are drawn to you and in the process, rather than engage in small talk, they offer up their deepest darkest secrets and longings. According to HG what lies at the bottom of this is the sense of hope the Magnet embodies. I will link the article on the Magnet empath which explains this Cadre more clearly.


            I don’t think Magnet’s feel pushed around as much as there are great demands on their time and attention due to their attraction to those in need who, I guess, are drawn to the sense of hope the Magnet embodies. The Magnet seems to manage this by encouraging others to see the hope that exists within them. I never thought about looking approachable for my part, but there’s something the Magnet gives out others are drawn to for some reason and they will approach regardless.

            It helped me to read the article again, so I hope it helps you, too.

    4. lindseymarie says:

      Absolutely agree. Most people shun the word narcissist. They don’t want to hear it. Why? It’s a disorder, it’s real and it affects a lot of people. I have had numerous interactions with narcs throughout my life. I have friends who have have been affected by them as well. They are everywhere. It’s not paranoia. It’s reality. However once you start talking about it, people think you’re being mean spirited, or paranoid (“not everyone is a narc you know”), or too sensitive, or unforgiving. It’s another layer of abuse to blame the victim. It really upsets me that so many people lack the critical thinking skills (?) or curiosity to learn and understand narcissism. They look down on people who want and need to know why narcs behave this way. They think it’s a waste of time. Maybe it’s the truth seeking part of us empaths that they lack so they don’t have that drive to understand like we do. It’s somewhat of a sore topic for me as I think it’s so important and quite frankly most of the people I know don’t care about it and think I’m bonkers for even labeling someone a narcissist or saying they have narcissistic behaviors. Then again I’m in the US and we are a very narcissistic culture here so it’s readily accepted and even valued by many people which just adds to the problem.

      1. Empath007 says:

        You pointed out something so important. And that is our individuallistic culture. Which practically worships narcissits. The pandemic is very telling… most narcissists culture in the world… highest death toll. Where as a country like China who’s population is far more expansive and values interdependence – way less cases. Mind you, an argument could be made that the government has total control and in a way they do. But the people are responding better to that control not believing it is infriging on their “rights” and as a result there is control over the virus there. Anyways. I don’t really want to start a political debate. But narcissism is valued in our culture. And the affects are once again … chaos.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          The totalitarian regime is more likely the reason for the outcome.

          1. Empath007 says:

            I have a friend that was in China when the virus first broke out (teaching English overseas) he would agree with you.

            China is one extreme. US another.

            Too much of anything is never a good thing.

            There needs to be balance. The US culture is problematic and it ensues chaos. I wouldn’t want to live in China either. Where I felt I had no basic rights. But I would want to live somewhere that has a more collectivist culture. And values interdependence. The pandemic has taught me : I want to move.

          2. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest Empath 007,
            Australia is a fabulous place to live
            We now have Zac Efron, Chris Helmsworth, Mark Wahlberg here 😍
            Pack your bags 🤣
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        2. lindseymarie says:

          American exceptionalism, thinking we are the best country on the planet, is a big part of it. A lot of Americans literally do not care about foreign affairs, culture or politics. As far as they are concerned, the U.S. is all that matters. There is so much narcissism here. Trump himself has been VERY triggering for those of us raised by narcs or having recovered from relationships with them. I avoided news channels for his entire term as much as possible. My therapist said I wasn’t the only one in that position. The anti mask movement of course being another example of this. Trump’s gaslighting, denial of reality, blatant lying, belittling, blame shifting, arrogance, and cruelty, all accepted by so many people. Mind boggling. I’ll never understand it.

          1. Empath007 says:

            I had to turn off the media as well. I can’t deal with Trumps personality disorder being worn on his sleeve.

    5. Asp Emp says:

      Last summer, I recall telling my friend about KTN site, at first she was interested. When I next saw her a few weeks later – she appeared somewhat ‘careful’. Yet she was ‘hinting’ along the lines about her fella. I don’t like him, my instincts ‘kick’ in whenever I see him – I had told my friend about my instincts, she understands. He doesn’t like it when she spends time with me – which is VERY rare. Yet, she remains a close friend because she turned up on Xmas Eve with a gift – a box of chocolate biscuits, I know she misses our chats (as I do).

      Your words “Everyone wants fluff. Fluff keeps the masses happy” made me giggle. Yet, what you said is ‘spot on’ – that is how society is today.

      Your comments = my sentiments too.

    6. BC30 says:

      Thankfully, those closest to me just want me to be happy. They listen patiently. There’s no convincing others, so I’ve not discussed it much outside my inner circle.

  4. Empath007 says:

    I can not believe I used to fall for crap like this… hook, line and sinker. Wow.

    Happy New Year Everyone ! Happy to report my 2020 remained fully in no contact (minus my longing for hoovers and internet spying haha), even when I heard news of a narcs family member passing away just before the New Year. I remained strong – and that sucked, not even being able to express sympathy for a person. Because as HG has said in the past – No Tudorite will turn into a ball of mush.

    1. A Victor says:

      How is “Tudorite” defined? If I qualify, it may have happened once…

      1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Dearest A Victor,
        You are commenting and contributing on Mr Tudor’s blog ……..that makes you a
        Just don’t become a “Tudorwrong” or you’ll end up in his dungeon
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        1. A Victor says:

          Aww, yay! Thank you Bubbles!! And I will be careful to stay on the “rite” side! 🤣🤣😂

          1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest A Victor ,
            Atta girl …. you’re doing brilliantly 🤩
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

  5. Asp Emp says:

    This reminds me of ‘The Perfect Ten of Seduction’ article.

  6. Jaana says:

    And at the devaluation-I love you and always will, just to have us on a string if/whenyou ever decide to come back.

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