Accepting This Frees You From the Narcissist

123 thoughts on “Accepting This Frees You From the Narcissist

  1. MGM says:

    HG if your voice were a liquor it would be the finest scotch whiskey. Smooth, complex, a little dark, alluring.

  2. Leigh says:

    It is really is very clear. I see it, I grasp, I accept it but yet I still stay. I know none of the narcissists in my life love me and yet I still haven’t secured my freedom. I’m not looking for sympathy. I’m trying to figure out why I don’t leave. Why can’t I muster up the strength to get out?

    1. JB says:

      Leigh, because it’s what you know. It’s your ‘normal’. There’s a bizarre sense of security in that, I think.

      1. Leigh says:

        Yes, it is what I know. It is my normal. It is bizarre. It is secure. And I hate it!

        I dont want him anymore. I’m not fooled by him anymore. Right before Christmas I had a cliffback moment and I’m in a respite period right now. So at least its calm right now.

        I feel like my feet are in cement. I can’t move. And I’m tired of whining about it and not doing anything about it. I need to get unstuck. I’m so used to it, that I just don’t know how.

        1. JB says:

          I understand. Leaving at the moment, with the world as it is, is extra hard too. I wish I could say something to help, but I can identify with that ‘stuck’ feeling. Do you know what it is that is keeping you where you are currently? Finance? Living arrangements? Or just pure fear of taking the plunge? Or all three?

          1. Leigh says:

            Hi JB, I think its me making excuses and I don’t know why. I think NA might be correct in saying its my addiction to the narcissist. Ugh!

          2. JB says:

            Leigh, I agree, I think NA could be right. Bit of fear of the unknown too, maybe? Better the devil you know?

          3. Leigh says:

            So true JB. I say it all the time. At least it’s the devil that I know.
            I am definitely scared.

          4. JB says:

            Leigh, I really wish you could feel less scared. I really feel for you, as I know I would feel the same in your situation. If you feel able to, it might be worth consulting with HG. Would you be able to (in the practical sense) leave, if you did decide to?

          5. Leigh says:

            JB, Yes, once I stop paying for him, I will have the resources to leave. He only works enough to pay the mortgage. I pay his medical insurance plus any health costs that aren’t included with the insurance. I dont know where you live but in the USA we have out of pocket expenses over the cost of the insurance. I pay for food and all the utilities and the car insurance. I paid for everything for our children. He paid nothing. He called them a financial burden. When he would say that I would think, not to you Mother f#%ker.

            So I will have to cut him off. Now the question is, can I do that. I hate that I feel bad for him still.

          6. JB says:

            Leigh, I guess it might come down to that, cutting him off, a basic choice between him or you. I do get that you feel bad about doing that. I see further down the thread that you don’t want to leave your kids behind. I completely understand that. I really hope you are able to work things out so you can all escape and start again. You deserve to be happy x

        2. NarcAngel says:

          My observation is that you are moving the goalposts further away to your own freedom (it was the reaction of your children initially for example, but you now know the children support you) and I understand that. There is fear of the unknown in making changes to all that you have ever known (for all of us), but more than that – I think addiction is in play here and that is what is keeping you “stuck”. I make no judgement on you staying or going, but I believe The Triple Addiction package will aid in your understanding and help with any decisions you make either way. All the best.

          1. Leigh says:

            NA, you’re right. I do keep moving the goal posts. I don’t know why I do that. Mr. Tudor has also suggested to me that the Addiction package may be beneficial to me. Maybe I should just do it. I don’t understand how I can be addicted to man I can’t stand. I loath him. He has sucked the life out of me.

        3. CandaceMarie says:

          I am sorry you are going through a rough time. I wish you all the best. I’ve been there and there is a light at the end of the tunnel. It leads to much better things.

          1. Leigh says:

            Thank you Candace Marie! I have hope that I’ll see that light very soon.

        4. Another Cat says:


          I paid for him and me in the beginning, with my little job. He totally wore me out, bullied me at home, let me manage the kids and him and his mother and my mother totally wore me out, I was almost at hospital, while very shy, and smeared to all the community. It was horrible, in the end I had to leave to try to save the kids, at least 50 % of the time.

          I hope you can leave before he depletes you financially.

          “I will have the resources to leave. He only works enough to pay the mortgage. I pay his medical insurance plus any health costs that aren’t included with the insurance.”

          (Didn’t mean to put too much stress on you. Just my conscience telling me to tell it like it is)

    2. WhoCares says:


      Emotional abuse really does sap your ability to strengthen your reserves, to mobilize and get out. Years of such abuse takes a toll. Keep reading and consult with HG if you can – if you can manage some time away from your narcissist (I know; potentially hard to achieve if you are in lockdown etc.) it will help with your mental fog and help rebuild your strength.

      1. Leigh says:

        Thankfully my company is an essential business so we were open during lockdown. I’m in HR so I went into the office at least 3 days a week. If I had to be home with him this whole time, I may have cracked.

        Thank you. Thats the key, I have to focus on regaining my strength and yes, its probably time for a consult. I keep thinking I can do it on my own. I’ve always done everything on my own. Ive always been the one to take care of things. Why should this be any different? At least, that’s how my brain is wired to think.

        1. WhoCares says:


          I am glad that your work allows time away from the narc. And a distraction, of course.

          “I keep thinking I can do it on my own. I’ve always done everything on my own. Ive always been the one to take care of things. Why should this be any different? At least, that’s how my brain is wired to think.”

          I do understand this. I think similarly; it is why when I was still in the formal relationship, I felt I had to solve my own issue. I figured that since I had got myself into the predicament, I had to get myself out. And the choices I made at that time ended giving me some physical separation from the narcissist, which even though I didn’t understand what he was and the importance of ‘no contact’, I was starting to implement that.

          The other thing that played into my thinking was that I was afraid of what people would think of my situation if I reached out for help. That they would judge me. And then I realized that there would be way worse judgement if I continued to stay and significantly far worse fall out for myself and my son if I continued to stay.
          When I finally did reach out for help, after escaping, I was surprised to find out that most ‘professionals’ had more concerns for my well-being than I did. My alarm bells for my own safety had totally shut off at that point.

          Since having found HG’s work, one thing I have had to learn (because I underestimated its importance in the beginning) is the importance of PHYSICAL distance from the narcissist. It is unbelievable how much of a difference this can make in beginning to clear our heads and give us space to heal. It is really difficult to make any headway without this step.

          1. Leigh says:

            I know. I think I’m actually hearing the alarm bells now. I have to get out. There have been very few times where I wished I had a real mom. My mom is a victim narcissist herself and I had to take on the role of caregiver at a very young age. This is one of those times where I wish I had a real mom so that I would have a place to go. Plus my husband depletes me financially. I know I will figure it out. I just need a little time. I’m in a respite period right now, so that helps a little.

          2. Fiddleress says:

            Who Cares, you wrote: “one thing I have had to learn (because I underestimated its importance in the beginning) is the importance of PHYSICAL distance from the narcissist. It is unbelievable how much of a difference this can make in beginning to clear our heads and give us space to heal. It is really difficult to make any headway without this step.”

            I have been thinking of moving away. Partly to go and live by the sea as that is the place where I feel happiest, and partly in order to remove myself from the narcissists that I know/knew, who are all within 30 kilometres of where I live at the present time.
            Your post helps and encourages me. I am finding it hard to force myself to move, but what you wrote tells me it would be a sensible thing to do. I have 7 or 8 months ahead of me to organise it all, jobwise and all.
            Thank you for sharing this!

          3. WhoCares says:

            Fiddleress, you’re welcome.

            Living near the sea but geographically distant from one’s narcissists sounds positively heavenly.

          4. Leigh says:

            Fiddleress, I live less than 10 miles from the ocean and its absolutely wonderful. Its so peaceful there. It’s my happy place! If you can go to the sea, you should. I highly recommend it.

            Thank you! That’s what I need right now. A day just to enjoy nature.

          5. WhoCares says:

            Leigh – now I am envious of both you and Fiddleress. Go enjoy the sea for me too!!

          6. Fiddleress says:

            Haha, WhoCares, I will.
            I live an hour’s drive away from the nearest coast (47 miles/75 km), in a region that’s a little like a peninsula, surrounded by the sea. But I long to be by the sea on an everyday basis. I am actually thinking of moving further away, some 230 kilometres from where I am currently.
            I will take a picture of that coast and use it as my avatar to let you see!

          7. WhoCares says:

            Fiddleress, “I will take a picture of that coast and use it as my avatar to let you see!”
            That would be lovely.

        2. Witch says:

          What type of narcissist do you think you’re dealing with?

          1. Leigh says:

            I think both my husband and my mother are lower mid range victim narcissists. They are the same people.

    3. A Victor says:

      Leigh, Though I had no knowledge of narcissism at the time, there was a point in my marriage I reached a state of catatonia, in a very uncharacteristic “show” of support, my ex drove me to the dr and I was put on antidepressants, he needed me functioning to take care of the children and whatnot. Even that day, I looked normal, done up, because I had to. It was a strange thing. Once I was functional again I just kept going through the motions, there were no other options, I didn’t even know it was that bad, again, so strange. What finally snapped me out of it was when I discovered he’d been shooting up in the house and it hit me I could lose my kids over this. That was almost a decade after the catatonia experience. I had no energy until it was necessary to protect my kids. It’s what happens to us, I think. When he realized I was done pretending, he sucked me dry financially, smeared me all over the place and walked away. But it took that big of a threat for me to wake up. I think we all have our own limits, you will know if/when you reach yours.

      1. Leigh says:

        A Victor, thank you for sharing. Right before Christmas I fought back because he was saying terrible things to my daughter. He backed off for fear of losing his primary source. I told him I was done and I wasn’t tolerating the toxic behavior one more fucking minute. Now, I’m in a respite period. So its calm again. But who I am kidding. Its only a matter of time before the toxicity is back.

        There are few times in my life where I wish I had a real mom. This is one of them. I wish I had somewhere to go to gather my thoughts and my strength.

        1. A Victor says:

          Leigh, oh boy, do I understand that last paragraph, so much. You’re welcome, I wish you all the best and only the best. 💜

        2. BC30 says:

          Leigh, these are the times I wish we could speak with one another. You and I are so much alike, and I’m always sending my love and thoughts.

          “When you need understanding, congratulations, praise, or advice from a mother figure, but don’t have one IRL able or willing to provide that for you — we are here for you. We support you and love you unconditionally!”

          1. cadavera says:

            @Leigh (can’t reply to her responses so I’m jumping on here) I’m right there with you and I know a lot about this mess. I’m stuck like Chuck and for me, I think it’s because I’m afraid that the problem is 100% my doing so if I heal and kick these mofo’s out of my life, nothing will change. Yes, I think that pretty much sums it up. It doesn’t really make much sense but it’s the best reason I’ve come up with. The leaking my eyes are doing right now also tells me that this is a correct assessment, along with that big frog in my throat that only occurs when I’m not doing the right thing/speaking my truth. I’ve been dealing with the hurt and the repetition compulsion for 34 years. That’s a long damn time. I wish you the best and that you figure it out soon. I’m at the point of thinking that I’m a lost cause and that sucks. T/C

          2. Leigh says:

            Thank you BC30! I truly appreciate you all. I’m just extra whiny lately. I guess it’s the Geyser in me. My fathers birthday is coming up and it always gets to me. He was a narcissist too.

            I know when I read your posts, I always feel like we are very similar too.

          3. A Victor says:

            Are Geyser’s whiney?

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Only when it is past their bedtime.

          5. A Victor says:

            Leigh, I think HG just suggested you get some sleep. Laughing…:)

          6. Leigh says:

            Mr. Tudor, Ha! That made me laugh. I guess its past my bedtime.

            A Victor, Geysers tend to be over emotional and I’ve been a little over the top lately.
            Including being whiney. I need to get a grip, lol!

            Cadvera, I could have written your post. I’ve been in my relationship for 35 years and I believe its my own doing too. I should have left a long time ago. My eyes have been leaking quite alot too lately. Stay Strong! We can get through this together. I’m sending you a virtual hug!

          7. Leigh says:

            A Victor, Ha!

    4. Another Cat says:


      ” I’m trying to figure out why I don’t leave. Why can’t I muster up the strength to get out?”

      I observe that advice and debate on these matters focus a lot on feelings, but in many cases during the years have built up to _practical_ matters, like:

      Do you have another apartment/house ready? Or do you need to ask one of your kids to stay with them for two months or so?

      /I’m a fixer, got it bad, that’s how many narcs get me

      1. A Victor says:

        AC, very solid, practical ideas. I don’t think this way so I really appreciate those of you who do.

      2. Leigh says:

        Another Cat, I have no where to go. My children still live with me. My mother is a victim narcissist and lives in a nursing home so I can’t lean on her. She has always been incapable of taking care of herself. I took on the role of mother at age 9. I remember it very clearly. We moved and everything went sideways. She could no longer function. I moved out at 30 when I was pregnant with my second child. My brother moved in to take care of her. After a couple of years he couldn’t take it anymore and he moved out. One day while living by herself, she fell and was rushed to the hospital. While there she was moved to a nursing home for rehab and she never left and has no desire to. The house she lived in was my grandmother’s house so it was a very easy transition for her.

        I’m working on an escape plan. Its just going to take some time. My husband is incapable of taking care of himself financially. He’s very dependent on me financially, amongst other things, so my finances deplete quickly.

        I’ll figure it out. I always do. It just gets tiring.

        1. Another Cat says:

          I see, Leigh. In my case I was drained finacially while had all the power + smeared me to all areas of town, I guess. I escaped to save the children. And me. Was getting really ill by his treatment of me.

          I understand you in being in the habit of helping him out, and that he might not have any other financial support. Hoping you can still get away. Meanwhile, we are here for support.

          1. Leigh says:

            Another Cat, thank you for your support. I do appreciate it.

            Everyone on this blog is wonderful!

            Maybe I’ll get lucky and he will just up and vanish. Don’t they all disengage at some point?

        2. Caron says:

          Get a friend to come over and make him leave. The friend can be your voice and energy and insist. He is a vampire, and that is why you have no energy. Do you know anyone who can do this for you?

          1. Leigh says:

            Caron, many of our friends are mutual friends. I’ve been in this relationship for over 35 years. Do you wanna come and do it for me? Ha! I’m only kidding! I wouldn’t want to throw him out. He can keep the house. I just want my freedom and only I can secure that. Thank you for the image though! It made me chuckle! Him being thrown out on his ass! That’s fantastic!

          2. Another Cat says:


            Whether he will up and leave on his own one day:

            Many narcissists stay together for life.

            The HG Tudor chapters and posts about disengagement is really a dream for older ppl, for instance. My mother tortured my dad through when he was terminally ill.

            Though I do understand that most appliances are disengaged from, especially secondary sources. Those are many more than primary ones.

            Relieved to hear that your narc is not engulfing because that is terror.

            I hope you can get courage to considered your Own wellbeing. And also all the fun one can have away from the narc.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Most secondary sources are not disengaged from, they are placed on the shelf.

          4. A Victor says:

            Another Cat, today I have read a couple of comments you’ve written about your mother. I didn’t realize you were raised by a narcissist. I have related very much to the comments. This one particularly, how your mother treated your ill father. My mother was abusive to my father as he was on his deathbed, unable to defend himself. Even the last 3 days, she knew the nurse had given the go-ahead for morphine, but she didn’t tell me, I would’ve given it to him, the nurse told me shortly after he’d passed. Her excuse when I confronted her was that she “just forgot”. I couldn’t believe it. I still can’t. It was the saddest, most horrific thing I’ve ever seen and her intentionality about it has made it much easier for me to go ANC. Thank you for sharing, I hate that people have to go through these things but it does help to know others have and have survived.

            They were married for 60 years in Sept. – >>> 60 <<< mostly miserable years.

          5. Leigh says:

            Another Car, I know. Its been 35 years and I know he’s not going anywhere. I fill ALL of the prime aims.

        3. WhoCares says:


          I quite like Caron’s advice:
          “Get a friend to come over and make him leave. The friend can be your voice and energy and insist. He is a vampire, and that is why you have no energy. Do you know anyone who can do this for you?”

          If you want my uncensored first thoughts when I read that you support him financially and that you have no other living arrangements:
          Change the locks and tell him he no longer has your permission to reside there. Have your adult children help box up his stuff and make arrangements for it to be transported to him. Being a narcissist, he has somewhere to go to stay temporarily (although he will lament to you that he does not.)

          Sorry if that’s too blunt but basically if he relies on you financially etc., then he jeopardizing your ability to support yourself, him and your children because he is undermining your ability to function and work effectively while simultaneously benefitting from the fruits of your labour.

          1. WhoCares says:

            Okay, so maybe this was a little reactive but it really makes me angry when I read this:

            “My husband is incapable of taking care of himself financially. He’s very dependent on me financially, amongst other things, so my finances deplete quickly.”

            Because this reminds me of how my ex was at the end. And it’s amazing how fast they can become financially INdependent when you are no longer enabling them.

          2. Leigh says:

            WhoCares, the one thing he actually pays for is the mortgage on the house. I pay every other bill. I can’t lock him out. Its his home. I’m really just a resident. Its me who has to leave. Its ok. I don’t want the home. He won’t be able to pay any of the other bills associated with the house. We bought the house 20 years ago and the mortgage is low and its still a struggle for him.

          3. WhoCares says:

            I am sorry Leigh.
            I know more than one situation where the narcissist made sure that the empath had no say in the house, or made it a huge uphill battle to prove otherwise.
            But I do understand if you feel you have no attachment to the house. I felt/feel no attachment to the property I resided in, at the end, with my narcissist. In fact, it has been beneficial to let go of all memories attached to that time and associated with that living space.

          4. NarcAngel says:

            Very true. They always make out just fine. They either get on with the things the COULD do but chose not to while they were getting what they wanted and needed from others (they are after all creatures of efficiency and why should they apply themselves when there are others willing), or they latch onto someone else who will take care of their needs. Either way – they make out just fine, and if it appears they are not it’s a pity play. I have also heard that line from parents over the years. How they cater to their children (sometimes to an embarrassing degree) because they are unable to do things for themselves, only to find out of course that they are quite capable once on their own (unless they’re angling for financial assistance haha).

            I believe that’s the underlying fear in both scenarios – the fear that someone else can and will fulfill those needs. It’s easier to keep doing for them than have it proven. That’s the slap that most cannot bear.

          5. WhoCares says:


            They DO make out just fine – they just don’t want to move on. They simply want to continue to cash in on their past investment (as HG speaks about in the recent ‘Constant Companion’ video).
            Both my narcissists made out just fine,.despite my having left them in fuel crises or near fuel crises – for this very reason they have to seek out a new avenue of work or new social contacts. Because it isn’t even just their financial, or other, well-being that depends on it, but their very existence depends on it.

            “I believe that’s the underlying fear in both scenarios – the fear that someone else can and will fulfill those needs. It’s easier to keep doing for them than have it proven. That’s the slap that most cannot bear.”

            I don’t know that I had this fear myself. Both my narcissists attempted to make me believe that their predicament was actually my fault. So it was the guilt factor that kept me in place – until that didn’t work any more.
            This is why when I hear things like ‘my narcissist can’t survive without me’ from others, I begin to feel a burning anger inside because I know how untrue these statements are and that the narcissist in their world has created a situation where the victim feels a responsiblity to the narc. Arghhhh.

          6. A Victor says:

            WhoCares, you took the words out of my mouth regarding the narcissists ability to become financially independent, of us, when we no longer allow them to drain us. Or, as in my case, have nothing left for them to drain. My ex had no problem figuring that out, once I told him my money was gone, he’d not been working for a year due to illness and addiction issues. I have wished so often that I would’ve stopped the drain prior to it being actually all gone but I didn’t know how or that I should. He left the same month my money ran out. He’d been smearing me for a couple of months in preparation to leave, had to keep his facade intact, but stuck in there until he left me with nothing. I had no idea of his smearing or his plan to leave, I was still trying to be the good wife and take care of our family, thought we were trying to figure some things out etc. I was completely used and sucked dry. And he continues to do the same, now to the state, while working for cash, I heard once a few years ago, to avoid taxes and child support. I never went after child support, I was just glad he was gone.

          7. WhoCares says:

            A Victor,

            “My ex had no problem figuring that out, once I told him my money was gone, he’d not been working for a year due to illness and addiction issues. I have wished so often that I would’ve stopped the drain prior to it being actually all gone but I didn’t know how or that I should. He left the same month my money ran out.”

            Yes, I see you had the proof too, that they are just fine without us – and don’t care an iota about that fact that they’ve financially ruined us.

            I am very sorry that happened to you.

            And yes, I agree with you…even as we survey the damage…it is so relieving to know they are gone.

          8. Leigh says:

            NA says, “I believe that’s the underlying fear in both scenarios – the fear that someone else can and will fulfill those needs. It’s easier to keep doing for them than have it proven. That’s the slap that most cannot bear.”

            This is very interesting. I definitely did alot for my kids. I still do.

            You really have me thinking. Is it the need to feel needed? is that where I find my worth? I do like to help. Is that why I stay because he needs me.

          9. Leigh says:

            WhoCares, I have no attachment to this house at all. This house would remind me too much of him and the misery he caused. He can have it. I only want my personal belongings and my freedom. It’s a sweet deal for him. He can sell the house and make a nice profit.

          10. WhoCares says:

            ” I only want my personal belongings and my freedom.”

            This I understand Leigh.

            Personally, I only ever truly wanted my freedom, protection for my son – and to heal.

          11. Leigh says:

            Who Cares JB. Another Cat, I know he will be fine without me. I’m sure he will figure it out. Its not just about him. Yes my children are adults but I can’t leave them there with him. They still live with us. I have to protect them still. I spoke with one daughter and she will come with me. I have to speak to the other one now. I think she’ll come too. I can’t leave them. Then I’m no better than my father. He left when my siblings and I were barely teenagers. I had to take on the role of caregiver for my mother. My husband may well do the same to my children. I have to secure freedom for all of us.

            I’m also struggling with giving up my whole life I’m going to lose friends & family. Its not just him I’m giving up. I have to start from scratch. I will have nothing. I won’t even have a bed to sleep on.

            I’m moving in the right direction. It’s just taking a long time because there are alot of pieces to the puzzle.

            I hear you guys and really appreciate your advice and kind words. Thank you. You guys are the ones that are giving me the strength to get through this…

          12. WhoCares says:


            “I had to take on the role of caregiver for my mother. My husband may well do the same to my children. I have to secure freedom for all of us.”

            Leigh, this may very well be something your husband would attempt, to make one of your children a NIPPS, because it would be a low energy fuel grab. But he currently is using your children against you – you know what he is and are likely not reacting quite as he needs (in order to fuel him), because of that knowledge. So he upsets your children in order to provoke you into engaging him. My ex did similarly towards the end, it was one of the few ways he could get me to react negatively towards him – to involve our child.
            Your children are adults – and I do understand your feelings of obligation, as a mother, knowing what their father is and due to the fact that they currently reside with you.
            However, they are ADULTS – they are not dependents that have no say in what happens to them.
            You come across as someone who takes a lot of responsibility for others and someone who wants to make the right choice for everybody involved in your situation. I see it, because I know I can be like that too…and have been, in the past, to my own detriment.
            The problem is, as you struggle to make the best choice that you deem the least hurtful or traumatic to everyone involved – you put yourself at risk of continued abuse and further wearing down. And I note that others have made observations that this can affect your physiological health – that’s a very real concern.
            I am not saying this to scare you into action. But HG has said elsewhere that just like the airplane analogy, you have to put your own oxygen mask on first…
            Since your children are adults, you may be better able to assist them when you are actually out of the abusive relationship yourself and gain some further clarity and strength.

            “I won’t even have a bed to sleep on.”

            I have some practical experience with this, and starting from scratch.
            I slept on a camp cot – likely for far too long – but it was temporary and worth it, to achieve safety and freedom for myself and my child.

          13. A Victor says:

            WhoCares, what’s really sad is that it never occurred to me that he or I wouldn’t be okay, I just kept giving because I was still under the delusion that we were working together, something that had never, ever actually been true.

          14. WhoCares says:

            A Victor,

            “WhoCares, what’s really sad is that it never occurred to me that he or I wouldn’t be okay, I just kept giving because I was still under the delusion that we were working together, something that had never, ever actually been true.”

            I feel like I am reading part of my own story here.

            You chose the word delusion – and that is accurate, in part, in hindsight…but I totally recall that belief as well, that: “we were working together”.
            My ex provided evidence, at just the right times, that we could work together towards a common goal when we were so motivated (now I see that this was done so I would hang in there and continue to ‘problem solve’ our situation.) And it wasn’t an illusion – because the physical, tangible results of working together were real.
            I recently had to look back through some photos for some other reason. And there it all was: the photo documentation of our ability to work together – I didn’t imagine it. And he pulled his own weight through part of it (not financially, mind you, I financed it but, physically, he did pull his own weight).

            AV, I just hope that you are not being too hard on yourself because you believed in what you now perceive to be a ‘delusion’. Because I know that they show us just the right amount “legitimacy” to us committed to them and the future.

          15. WhoCares says:

            to *keep us committed to them and the future.

          16. JB says:

            Leigh, I think the fact that you have spoken to one of your daughters, and are planning on doing the same with another, is a really good sign. It will be hard – when you decide that the time is right – having to start again, but I think having your kids there and all supporting you will give you the strength you need to get through it. It sounds like you have lovely, caring kids x

          17. Another Cat says:

            A Victor

            Really sorry to hear about those 60 years. For my father it was 43 years, I think, he lived with my midrange narcissist mother. I guess he never left because she probably would have got custody of me, then.

            I guess it’s most often the victim who dies first, worn out by the narc. They take advantage as soon as the nonnarc is really weak physically. I just got emotional by memories and wanted to caution Leigh. Thank you for all support A Victor. Means lots for me.


            I truly understand that you don’t want to leave your kids with him, even if they’re adults. That notion I totally get.

    5. Fiddleress says:

      Leigh, I too wish I could say something worthwhile to help you leave. The readers who have replied to you have all offered sound thoughts.
      Some of what you have written reminds me of the situation I was in with my daughter’s father (I lived with him for 7 years and a half, and then remained in a formal relationship with him for a further year and a half).
      My first thought – about “better the devil you know”: why not “NO devil at all”? NO company is more enjoyable than bad company, and certainly much better for your physical and mental health in the long run, though we do not see that when we are stuck in an unhealthy relationship.

      My daughter’s father was not an obvious narcissist; he was not violent, he didn’t use abusive language, everyone thought he was lovely; he was very passive aggressive. In a way, that type can make you feel more stuck because you do not see the very real damage that is being inflicted on you. It is all so insiduous. What made me leave him for good was that I became ill, and I found out that stress was one of the reasons for that illness and I had to cut out all sources of stress, as there are some you simply cannot put up with. So I left him, in order to protect myself. I was not well at all, and it took that for me to kick him out of my house (it was *my* house), not caring that he didn’t have a job and might end up on the street. He’d been warned and I’d given him time, but he didn’t think I would actually ditch him so he had done nothing about it. And guess what? The “poor helpless darling” who supposedly couldn’t fend for himself found a place to stay immediately, and started training for the job he now has pretty quickly! It infuriated me that I had put up with him for so long because I didn’t have the heart to throw him out and leave him so “vulnerable”. Vulnerable, my ass!

      And now that illness of mine has slowly gone away, or at least it no longer manifests.

      I left him less than a year before I stopped seeing my ‘parents’. I’m not saying it was a walk in the park, so do expect some difficult moments, but it is SO worth it. You have HG to assist you in taking that step too. And we are here to support you also.

      What I mean is that I can understand why you feel stuck – those passive aggressive narcissists paralyse you in a peculiar way – but your health may well suffer at some point, visibly so, either physically or mentally.
      It is hard to walk away and decide that the person we leave is an adult, who will be responsible for his/her failings if our departure makes life difficult for them. But more often than not, it won’t make life difficult for them.
      We owe it to ourselves, and to our children, and even friends (real friends) to look after ourselves – and that means leaving the narcissist. There is no way around it.
      Why not see it (leaving him) as a health measure? Doing all you can to prevent your health from deteriorating. Plus, that would surely deplete your finances even more than he is already doing.

      1. Leigh says:

        Fiddleress, I know you’re right. I have to make the move and I have to make it soon. Thank you for sharing!

      2. WhoCares says:

        Fiddleress – so many truths in that post.

      3. Leigh says:

        Fiddleress, yes! No devil at all! That sounds amazing!

  3. Fieke says:

    Such an simple true statement that unravels all the hot mess.. That’s it. No more. No less. I love the simular message: love is not supposed to hurt. ( except grieving the loss/ letting go of love maybe)

    1. Fieke says:

      Just remembered; my mom always said: ‘Your lover is supposed to mess up your lipstick, not your mascara”. Kind of summons it up also. 😉

      1. JB says:

        Fieke, I love this! Definitely one to remember!

      2. Asp Emp says:

        Good analogy.

      3. Winning Path says:

        I’d love to tell the whole story here, but it would take forever; so I will have to cut out the back story leading to this, but the mascara comment reminded me of this …

        One day as the LMRN was desperately trying to exert control, he stood in front of me threatening physical violence, wouldn’t allow me to leave, and he told me not to look him in the eyes, that I didn’t deserve to look him in the eyes. We stood there saying nothing for several minutes while he decided whether to let me leave or beat the hell out of me. My other tactics to get him to let me leave had failed, so I started talking about our past and how much I had loved him, which brought me to tears. Suddenly, he wanted me to look at him. I said, “Oh, now it’s okay to look at you, now that I’m crying?” He said, “Yeah.” He looked at me for a few seconds, then said, “That’s strange.” I asked, “What’s strange?” He said, “Your makeup’s not running down your face.” I replied, “It’s waterproof; I wear waterproof mascara. It’s usually mascara you see running down someone’s face.” Then I asked, “You’re used to seeing makeup running down women’s faces, huh?” He smirked and said, “Yeah.” I asked, “I bet you’ve seen it a million times, huh?” He smirked and said, “Yeah.” I asked, “I bet that makes you proud, huh?” He smirked again and said, “Yeah.” I asked, “Are you disappointed to not see it running down my face?” He replied, “Yeah,” but notably absent was his smirk. I asked, “The tears are still good though, right? Just not as good as if my makeup was running down my face … you’d rather see me looking like some pathetic clown, huh?” He replied, “Yeah.” I said, “Sorry to disappoint you, you sick fuck” as I smirked (I delivered it in a playful way though … a lot of times I could disarm him with my playful ways). After a little more discussion, he let me leave.

        Fieke’s mom’s saying, “Your lover is supposed to mess up your lipstick, not your mascara” is so right. I actually recall hearing my mom or dad say this, it was so long ago that I had forgotten it, until I read it here.

  4. doforluv1 says:

    after three years applying your work I can honestly say it changed my life the consultations the detectors books the online content . This way off thinking almost becomes my natural state . Still the best narcissist I’ve ever came across . Thank you HG.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are most welcome.

  5. Claire says:

    Unmissable! Forwarding the link straight away to one of my closest friends who tries to grasp that her mother is a narcissist. She already reads the blog that I recommended and I also recommended a personal consultation with HG in order to get more clarification and ultimately, to achieve a freedom.
    Thank you, HG for this video!
    It is absolutely relevant in terms of dealing with a Narc at workplace as well , namely , the lack of support. My own Department is a small one . I raised my concerns about the extremely high volume of work and asked for some support, understanding , etc , etc . As I suspected, we were provided with empty promises and extra work. We met the deadlines because I sacrificed my holiday ( i didn’t want other people to suffer because of my Narc boss and other in line manager , nor I can ask my subordinates to work during their well deserved break and school holidays in Oz) . On the bright side – I become somehow creative and start thinking how to bring more awareness about the narcissism at workplace . I don’t use deliberately any other social media except the professional one. I mean ,no Insta , no Facebook ,no TikTok.
    There are some very rare species among upper managers into the Board of Directors who are Empaths but the vast populations in the Board in any random company are predominately Narcs.
    Or at lest, these are my observations.
    And dealing with narcissists at work is a vast problem. I had mixed feeling recently wondering should I laugh or should I cry about the moronic article “ How to foster an
    empathy at workplace “ that popped into my work inbox from an HR website that I am subscribed to .
    The logorrhoea , I mean the article was undoubtedly written by a Narc.

  6. Fiddleress says:

    Thank you for this video, its message is fundamental.
    It frees us from the devastating notion some of us may have, that the narcissist must have loved us at first, but then came to hate and abuse us because they got to know us better as a person and realised how unlovable we were. No. There was never any love because there could be none, irrespective of who we are as persons.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome, Fiddleress.

  7. lisk says:

    Fake Love!

  8. Whitney says:

    HG the God, this work is a testament to your genius. I’ve listened to it on bluetooth speaker AND with earphones. I’ve been rewinding and re-starting it for an hour!

    The simplicity of truth and logic is relaxing.

    I will always remember this message HG.

    However HG, my Thinking has distorted for HIM! Do you think he abused me? I don’t understand how.

    He cared about me so much that he didn’t want me to eat crappy food. How is that abuse? To make someone eat healthy. That is loving. That shows empathy. He didn’t care about my weight, only about my health. My parents would let me eat whatever I wanted as a child. That is neglectful. He put masses of effort into my diet and health, Every. Single. Day. How does that benefit him? The others only cared about themselves.

    I could write a novel with examples of his empathy for me, in every aspect of my life.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I am pleased you have been listening to it Whitney, you will very much enjoy and find helpful the Contemplative Remix which will become available later today.

      Controlling somebody, under the auspices of being caring, is abusive because it is not done with emotional empathy, it erodes who you are, takes away your decision making and chastises you for your own decision making. It benefitted him as it enabled him to assert control over you, draw fuel form you and bolstered his facade.

      1. Samara says:

        Thank you HG, the God. Listening to anything you create is like being in heaven.

        I’m changing my name for privacy. If my name was different all along I could have praised you work to everyone I know 😭

        Thank you for explaining that to me, HG.

        It must have taken so much effort to manage all facets of my life. It’s hard to manage one’s own life, let alone another. It caused him a lot of anger.
        He’s not doing it anymore. I stopped talking to him for 4ish months. I think it’s a “respite” period now.

        Another thing he would do… I loved giving him whatever food or drink he wanted. So I would ask him again and again “are you hungry. Are you sure. Are you thirsty. What food do you feel like. Do you want this. Do you want that. Can I get you salt. Here, have some water. Do you want another drink… Fuss fuss fuss fuss.

        Anyway, he would tell me No, I don’t want fish and chips (for example), and keep saying no after I asked 3 or 4 times. Then afterwards, when we had other food he would tell me he wanted fish and chips. And that I should have known.
        It made me perplexed.

  9. CandaceMarie says:

    Very helpful HG! It’s difficult to accept that your dad never loved you. There are certain people who still tell me he loved me when they know what he was. They don’t fully understand.
    What is even more difficult was sitting through the zoom memorial service that was done for him. I didn’t speak but I had to listen to everyone praising him and how wonderful he was to them. He was wonderful to them, I learned a lot about my dad listening to their memories of him. I’m glad I listened because now I see even more of his narcissism.
    He had told one family member that “his daughters would change the world”. Wow that kind of hurt because he never would have said that about me.

    1. WhoCares says:


      “He had told one family member that “his daughters would change the world”. Wow that kind of hurt because he never would have said that about me.”

      That would be hard to hear. It just goes to show how, even after death, they manage to leave their mark upon us.
      Take care ❤️

    2. Witch says:

      I guarantee that my dad is still using me to this day to create a whole dramatic sob story about how his daughter doesn’t speak to him and he desperately wants a good relationship with me
      HA HA
      However I also found out through my younger male cousin that he has been criticising my same sex relationship. My cousin told him that he should just be grateful that I’m speaking to him (when I was speaking to him, not anymore.)

      1. lindseymarie says:

        Witch I can relate. I know he tells people his daughter thinks he’s an asshole to get sympathy from them. He’s not wrong on that! I do think he is one!

    3. doforluv1 says:

      I hope you find a way to deal with that hurt . I do believe the awareness and HGs work helps you a lot on your journey .

      much luv

    4. Witch says:

      Also wanted to mention that parents being incapable of love, doesn’t mean we are unlovable, it means their emotions are limited and they can not love anyone.
      It’s not their fault and it isn’t ours
      doesn’t mean you should tolerate it either… I tolerate the fact my lizard doesn’t love me and moves his hand away when I touch it but I’m not tolerating my parents

  10. BC30 says:

    Of all of HG’s content, this is the most valuable. It prompted me to reread my Letter to the Empath. There it was–

    “The same thought will repeat for hours on end, “I can’t believe he did this to me.”

    1. A Victor says:

      BC30, Is your letter published here? This is HG’s most valuable content in my mind also. “I can’t believe he did this to me.” -repeated for the last decade whenever my ex popped into my head, so ready to be done with that.

        1. A Victor says:

          BC30, your letter is beautiful. I relate to everything in it. Thank you for sharing it.

    2. doforluv1 says:

      keep moving foward luv you’ve got this .

      much luv

      1. BC30 says:

        Thank you, ❤️

  11. lindseymarie says:

    Tough to accept but it is reality. What makes it worse is when it’s family and well intentioned people will fight you on this. My father is a narc no doubt. I know he doesn’t love me. He’s shown me in a million ways that he doesn’t. Cognitive dissonance and sad disappointment was real for many many many years until it finally clicked for me. I expect nothing from him now and it’s much easier. Yet people, when they hear that we aren’t close, will say things like “Give him a break. He does the best he can. He’s your father. He loves you.” All a bunch of garbage which will fuck with your mind if you let it. I can’t blame the guy anymore. There’s no law that says a parent has to love their child. He doesn’t owe me anything and vice versa. He doesn’t have any love to give because he lacks emotional empathy. It’s not even a possibility so why expect it from him. He doesn’t love anyone. It’s not personal. The relationship with the narc partner helped me understand that my father too lacks empathy and there’s nothing I can do about it.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      It is infuriating. As if love and respect must be afforded those in our lives with placement or title no matter their treatment of others. Merely dispensing seed or incubating seed does not make a parent worthy of those things. I tell people they don’t have all the facts so the discussion is closed to them. The world is too full of interesting people to care the opinion of the clueless and judgemental who place suspicion on me after that and have no place in my life.

      1. A Victor says:

        NA, “I tell people they don’t have all the facts so the discussion is closed to them.” Thank you for this wording NA. This is very helpful.

      2. K says:

        Exactly! Fuck ’em, NarcAngel.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Fist bump!

          1. K says:

            Hahahahaha…virtual fist bump!

      3. Empath007 says:

        Agreed. I have a family member who is obsessed with winning the approval of some of our other family members (they are a codependant) I keep telling them just because they are family does not mean they have to interact, or get along if it means sacrificing their own inner peace.

    2. alexissmith2016 says:

      All of that LM plus when people say things like, “You only have one mother”. Yes I know! I wish I had more to choose from ahah

    3. JB says:

      Exactly what happened with me, lindseymarie. And yes, family members etc just don’t see it and make excuses for the behaviour. So then you wind up thinking maybe I have got it all wrong, I have read too much and am going mad. But I know that isn’t true! It really is a massive headfuck.

      1. lindseymarie says:

        Plenty of people will make excuses for their behavior because they are your “family” and people really don’t want to accept, or literally CAN’T accept, that family too can be toxic. Therefore they say it must be our fault for being upset over their behavior. You have to validate your own experiences and not look to others for that. It’s not easy but it can be done. I know who he is and I don’t need anyone to agree with me on it. Does it feel good when someone does? Absolutely! However I can’t count on that happening. My narc grandmother was extremely emotionally abusive. I haven’t seen her in person in over a year and I avoid contact with her when possible. I don’t care anymore what people think. Unless they experienced the abuse themselves, they will never fully understand the effect she had on me. I don’t blame them. Unless it had happened to me I’m not sure I would understand or accept it either. It goes against everything we are taught about “family”.

        1. JB says:

          Lindseymarie, you’re right, it does. I don’t mind it so much if outsiders (or relatives who I am not close to) excuse the behaviour, but it’s hard to see my mother making excuses for him. I am torn between feeling sorry for her and feeling angry; feeling that her actions have inadvertently provided a platform of sorts for his behaviour to continue.

          1. Leigh says:

            JB says, “but it’s hard to see my mother making excuses for him. I am torn between feeling sorry for her and feeling angry; feeling that her actions have inadvertently provided a platform of sorts for his behaviour to continue.”

            JB, your comment really resonated with me. I often think I did wrong by my children. For so long I defended their father. I made excuses for his bad behavior. I thought he was a good man. He helped with the children, he didn’t hit me, he didn’t cheat on me so I excused his behavior. You are 100% right that making excuses for their behavior gives them a platform to continue. Try to remember that your mom is in an abusive relationship also. She may not even realize it. I didn’t. My daughters would tell me he’s toxic, abusive and a narcissist and I wouldn’t listen. Them saying it to me definitely planted the seed though. Are you in a position to have an open conversation with your mom? Maybe you can plant the seed for her. Because of your comment, I have apologized to my children for my share in all of this. I hope you get that apology from your mom one day too.

  12. Francine says:

    Many people would not deny that it would be an exciting prospect to be handed a few million dollars with no strings attached. Why, what would that mean security yes but mostly freedom. Freedom to make life choices on your own terms. Without the control and limitations that a limited income brings. However what good is that kind of freedom if one is bound in mind and spirit from a abusive person. Especially not being able to make heads or tails of what the “hell” is going on. “It was never real and he never loved you” one of the few times speaking in absolutes is absolutely true. What good is a million dollars without having peace and freedom of mind. It may be a very hard pill to swallow but if willing to do so can lead to priceless freedom. The videos are at no cost to us but they are not free. It takes work, time and money to produce. Not to mention the price the victim’s had to pay. “… treasure hidden in a field when a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field.

  13. Shelley says:

    Thanks a million for this reminder : ) movin on….

  14. A Victor says:

    Wow. Thank you for this. Going to be listening to it often for a while. Right after my ex left I said to someone that I was in shock, nothing had been real. That person, trying to help, said, “Your part was real, your feelings, what you gave.” I have wondered about that many times, how it could be so real from me and nothing from him, it didn’t compute. It doesn’t matter now, the message in this video matters now. Thank you.

    1. doforluv1 says:

      thats the way to go !

  15. Kiki says:

    This was brilliant HG I really needed this

    Thank you


    1. HG Tudor says:

      Indeed it is and you are welcome.

  16. NarcAngel says:

    The simplicity of this message is both jarring and invaluable.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Absolutely, NA.

  17. Another Cat says:

    Extremely relieving words, HG. Having suffered through an overwhelming, engulfing, stalking mother, demanding to visit my home every day, calling me at 4 am, known by others as an angel, was such cognitive dissonance and fatigue.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The answers lie with me.

      1. Another Cat says:

        HG, very kind.

        Well, you know us, of course. Often feeling sorry for the NPD parent, I mean she is a manipulator machine, can’t change. But I haven’t had any interaction for 6 years soon to be.

        So, I will need to write down your words.

        Definitely do, I also had thoughts that she and my ex husband actually can feel Theoretic love, in words, but never in actual real life. Yes indeed, need your words.

  18. MB says:

    I can’t believe you’re giving us this free! Straight forward logic. Don’t miss this one!

    It is especially difficult to hear with regard to the Parental Narcissist. My DIL accepted it about her mother after a consultation with HG in March 2018 and her life is INFINITELY better for it. THIS is the same message he gave her. You can get it now without any fees!

    1. fox says:

      I agree, HG has been soooo good to us lately with all this new free content!

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