Nobody Is Listening



Go on then, tell them all what has happened to you? Go on, here, take my phone and ring my parents, my family and my friends. Ring my colleagues too. Telephone the golf club in fact why don’t you take out an advertisement in a local, no, make it a nationa lnewspaper and tell everybody about how badly you have been treated? Climb on the roof and shout it to the neighbourhood, tell everyone who calls at our door and bellow it to strangers as they walk past. Do it, go on, tell them about. Announce it, broadcast it, transmit it, send it out by mail, e-mail ,message and radio signal. Have it blaring from the radio, repeatedly playing on television, hell I will even let you strap a message to a flock of pigeons and you can let them deliver the news that way. Scrawl how badly you have been treated by me on a piece of paper and wrap it around a brick and hurl it through the window at the police station. Scream it long and loud until you are hoarse. Go on, tell them, tell them all. Nobody is listening.

Tell my parents about their successful son who has studied hard, achieved brilliant results and now excels at work about what I do? Why don’t you gather all my friends around here and announce to them what a bastard I am? I am sure they will be intrigued to listen to you saying that about their loyal and dependable friend who always makes time for them and has helped them out in repeated ways through his largesse and influence. Pop next door and bang on their front door, explain to them with your wild eyes and even wilder hair what has really been happening? After all, I only every show them friendship and politeness don’t I? I don’t think they have heard me shouting at you (I wait until they are away before I raise my voice) but I know they have heard you ranting and bawling. Go to the local shopping parade and mention to the pleasant lady at the bakery what I really get up to behind closed doors. I am sure she will love to hear you tell her all about the charming man who is her best customer and has arranged for her to supply the restaurant of two of my friends. Call my brother and give him chapter and verse. Oh you can’t because he won’t answer the ‘phone to you anymore will he? I know, head down to the gym and see if you can interest any of the regulars with a hysterical rant about the chap who they all say hello to and who works out quietly and regularly. Type out a memo for my colleagues and circulate it to them. I am sure they will be interested to read all about their boss who holds the keys to their future. Declare it to the group I attend football with, they will want to know all about what I do won’t they? What’s that? These are all my people. At last you have recognised the truth of the matter in between your vile outbursts and hateful comments. I know then, ring up your sister and see what she has to say, mind you, I daresay you won’t want to give her the satisfaction after the way she came on to me would you? Tell your friends all about it. Oh wait, they are now my friends and all they have ever seen is how happy I have made you, the gifts, the trips, the presents and the love. What about the vicar? He will listen to you I am sure. It is what he does after all although what he will make of such slander against a regular attendee at his sermons and generous charity donor remains to be seen. Nobody is listening.

Do it, grab a loudspeaker, create a banner, haul a message behind an aeroplane and write it in the sand on the beach. Do it in this frenzied manner with words spilling from your twisted mouth, a word salad which makes no sense. I am sure the staccato way you spit out your accusations will be well-received. Make sure they look deep into your crazy eyes when you are talking to them, I want them to see who they are really dealing with. Tell your father will you? Ha, he has put up with this for years and was glad to see you leave home, he told me himself. He knows what a drama queen you are and as for your mother well she hates confrontation and she adores me since she knows just how much I have done for you. Nobody is listening.

Go on, beat your tiny fists about that façade, see if you can punch some holes in it although I know you will not be able to. Shout and stamp and holler all you like. I will enjoy watching you do that and there will be no favourable outcome for you. You are the crazy one and you are trying to unseat the stable, rational, dependable and ultimately far more likeable me. But you keep trying, it amuses and fuels me as your bloodied hands slap against the façade with no effect and your voice becomes no more than a rasp. I will watch as the hope fades in your eyes to be replaced by fear and incomprehension. Keep trying though, keep going and reinforce what I have already indoctrinated them to believe. They believe me. They won’t believe you.

Nobody is listening.



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46 thoughts on “Nobody Is Listening

  1. wildviolet22 says:

    It’s not always clear who the narcissist is in the scenario, if there is one. Not a bad idea to be discerning when you hear the word “narcissist” being used. I have a situation with someone I have known for a very long time, and years into her marriage, she started calling her husband a narcissist. Now I understand how abuse dynamics work, and I get that oftentimes even the people closest to the person/ people involved, don’t know what’s going on behind closed doors.

    However, it turned out she let some lesser from her past (someone she had a drug abuse history with) back into her life, and the husband found out, including her continually giving this guy drug money (from the husband’s earnings). Most people didn’t know her history with the lesser, including her therapist. So when the husband froze the account, it really did look from the outside, if you didn’t know the situation and what she was doing, that the husband was “controlling the money”. Also I would observe her and the husband in social situations, and the husband seemed to be afraid of her. And she was going around, planting seeds of doubt in everyone’s minds about the husband, leaving out the part about this other guy she was mixed up with. I’d ask her too, does the husband lack empathy (from what she said , and how it came across to me, the husband was being more than empathetic, and trying to understand her and what was happening)? Also, I’d ask, what do you think a narcissist is, can you give me some traits? I think it was actually her who had some lesser traits, as this ex she got herself all mixed up with for round 2.

    Anyways, I felt bad for the husband, she was really going after him for a while there witht this narcissist stuff, when the ex came back into the picture. I think people can be quick to want to jump in and defend the female and assume the guy is the abuser; she really had some people convinced, including the therapist.

    1. lisk says:

      This sort of goes back to HG’s advice to empaths to not talk about the Narc to anyone. If I hear people talking too much about a narcissist, I am going to wonder if they’re narcissists themselves. (This includes me!)

  2. lickemtomorrow says:

    Before I read this again, a thought jumped out at me as I read the title: Nobody Is Listening.

    The thought was this:

    Why is nobody asking?

    Why is nobody asking the victim about their experience with the narcissist? Why does everyone buy the narcissist’s story? HG has given plenty of possible answers, but at the same time I can’t help wondering how many people intentionally turn a blind eye because the can and not just because the narcissist provides a convincing story.

    1. Asp Emp says:

      Hi LET, good point, however, is the victim aware of a narcissist? Are the victim’s friends / people they are talking to aware of a narcissist’s behaviours? Society has changed so much in the last 20 years or so – parents too busy with careers, people used to talk with each other but only send SMS to say “dinner is ready”….. so many reasons. Including lack of awareness of the human psyche.

      1. lickemtomorrow says:

        The victim is likely unaware for the most part they are dealing with a narcissist, AspEmp, but I was probably thinking more along the lines of why no one is wondering about the victim and their sudden fall from grace? Perhaps the smearing that is done about them. Why does no one think to question the ‘facts’ and find out more? I think K has given a pretty good explanation in terms of answers and HG shows us how the narcissist has every angle covered in terms of maintaining their facade. No doubt the questioners would soon be shouted down by the coterie. It’s just frustrating to think that the Truthseekers which K mentioned are so few and far between. It’s painful for the victim to have everyone believing the narcissist which we probably all know from experience now.

        Aarrgh! It’s my frustrated moment with humanity! And you’re right about society changing in many ways which has probably had an affect as well. It’s created a space for narcissism to thrive and provided empaths with an uphill battle. There’s nothing for it but to keep getting the word out there!

        1. Asp Emp says:

          LET, I agree with you and I am so looking forward to being able to move around safely (RE: Covid) and see my friend who has a genuine passion for emotional & mental health – have many long conversations with her about narcissism and what I have learned. It will be interesting to see how it pans out from there.

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            Absolutely, AspEmp! It’s great to have friends who are on the same page and be able to share ideas and experiences with them. In person is even better 🙂 It sounds like she might be open to the idea of learning more about narcissism if she has a passion for emotional and mental health. And HG has given us plenty of examples of people/celebrities to use to open up those conversations.

            My daughter and I touched on it a couple of weeks ago re: celebs, and the worst of it was that there wasn’t one person mentioned where I couldn’t have said “they are a narcissist.” I had to hold myself back, otherwise it would have looked like I was the one with the issue … everyone’s a narcissist to me 😛

            We talked about Kim and Kanye’s divorce yesterday and I’m thinking to myself “did you know Kim is a narc as well as Kanye?” She was big into the Kardashians in the past. She did say something about Kim wanting the divorce because Kanye called her mother “Kris Jong Un” 😛 Another narcissist. OMG! Her whole world will come crashing down if I tell her all the people she previously admired are narcs. She doesn’t like Taylor Swift so she’d probably believe me on that one!

            Anyway, that was a bit long winded, but I was just trying to say that we have plenty of ins HG has given us for discussing narcissism with others. Let’s not forget Harry and Megan and it’s a fact that’s recent developments are going to hurt him. He’s even more ensnared now than he was before. It will be interesting to see what happens in their interview with Oprah. I’m sure there will be a few of us watching with great interest.

            Thank God we can talk about all these things here and maybe somewhere someone is listening 🙂

          2. Asp Emp says:

            LET, thank you for your response. I agree, it’s better in person, especially on subjects that are understood by so few. She’s one of the type of people that don’t back down when it comes to systems that don’t work for people’s health and will challenge it. No wonder she & I get on 😉

            Yeah, I understand what you mean (and why you’d say it) – “everyone’s a narcissist”.

            You talking about celebrities with your daughter and not saying that’s a narcissist – is an example of why narcissism is difficult to broach to discuss with some people. That is the ‘barrier’.

            RE: Megan – well, it won’t be just Harry that is affected. Being that high profile will not be easy for the family to come to terms with, whatever the outcome. They’re going to have an interview with Oprah? Hmm, that will be interesting.

            Yes, it’s great to have somewhere to openly discuss things in a liberating way. 🙂 (Thanks, HG).

          3. A Victor says:

            Asp Emp, you are blessed to have such a friend. I hope to find one like this.

          4. Asp Emp says:

            Thank you. It has been a while since she & I spoke – she values my way of thinking (which in some ways, has taught her new ways of looking at people). It’s not always easy to ‘connect’ with people who are accepting & non-judging.

            I hope you will too.

        2. lisk says:

          Few people have balls—or really care at all. Most probably say, “Whew! Glad that’s not me!” and are knowing and going, in a sense. If they get involved with the victim, then they’re getting/staying involved with a narcissist in a way that would have themselves become victims, too.

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            Hi Lisk, I have a friend and together we had a mutual friend (all women) who I discovered early on was a narcissist. When I say “discovered”, I mean I picked up on a number of behaviours which I ultimately realized reminded me of my mother.

            At first, I couldn’t put my finger on what was going on, but became aware she was manipulating me, as well as triangulating me, in a number of different scenarios. This boiled my piss and I took her to task over her first monumental manipulation. She apologized profusely and backed down temporarily. Then she moved to a triangulation which boiled my piss even more. At that point I knew she was going to persist with her games so I fully nuked her by cutting her out and stopped all communication.

            The other friend was not fully aware of the situation as she had become more distant from the friendship group, ultimately deciding she needed to focus more on her family. She was gracious about it, but the narc apparently didn’t take kindly to her distancing herself as well and began to smear her behind her back, questioning the strength of her marriage.

            I only heard this second hand due to the fact I’d cut the narc out, but it caused a huge issue between these two when the fact of the smearing was brought to my friend’s attention. She laid this girl out and had a third party witness to the conversation so no further rumours could be spread. At that time neither she nor I knew anything about narcissism, but she began to do some investigating which is what eventually led me to this place 🙂

            Virtually every other friendship she had fell away after that, partly because she had chosen to step away from the friendship group, but also because people didn’t want to rock the boat and were happy to turn a blind eye to the situation. I couldn’t believe it! In order to stay in the good graces of the narc, they carried on as if this incident had never happened, virtually washing their hands of someone who had been a great friend to them and always honest and upfront.

            I could not understand how people could not see through the manipulations, the fake niceness of the narc, and the absolute skulduggery of her actions. They possibly thought the narc was the one who was wronged (and I’m sure she presented it that way – Mid Range, Pity Playing, snake that she was). But, how could they not see through it?!

            My friend had to close down all her social media accounts and virtually disappear as a means to dissociate from this woman in the end. I loosely maintained some of my other friendships, but for the most part distanced myself from ongoing interactions also. I had lost faith in people to see what was right in front of them.

            The other thing was my friend who was targeted had not been able to take on board what I had told her earlier about this woman. Once I had been targeted by her I tried to give my friend a heads up about some of the behaviour. As she was stepping away, I think she felt safe in the situation not to have to concern herself as it hadn’t affected her. And I didn’t make a big song and dance about it. I just indicated I thought she needed to be somewhat wary in the circumstances. It bit her in a big way when she was subsequently targeted.

            That wasn’t an “I told you so” moment for me. I was as shocked as she was when she shared with me what had happened and completely supported her throughout. I understood what had happened without knowing narcissism was the root cause. I just knew this girl liked to play games and I was having none of them. Me walking away wasn’t enough to alert others, though. Rather than smear her, because that is not the empath’s way, I just assumed others would eventually see through her the way I had. No doubt she was a step ahead of me and smearing me behind my back as well, which probably put the ball in her court for the most part. I just let her carry on rather than confront her. People could make up their own minds about who I was.

            But that is an occasion which had me wondering “why is nobody asking?” Why is everyone just taking this bitch’s word for what happened – and, of course, she presented herself as the ‘caring’ friend who was only concerned about her friend’s marriage, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah! I am sickened by Mid-Ranger’s and their pathetic way of being mealy mouthed victims while all the while they are the ones who are causing the drama and chaos. They are the most underhand, passive aggressive POS’s there are and people need to stop taking their word for what is going on and find out for themselves. Stop listening to these gossip mongers and drama queens!

            And your comment, Lisk, about “I’m glad that’s not me” is probably the truest words ever spoken about why nobody is listening. Rather than having someone else’s back, they’re all about protecting their own back. Washing their hands and walking away.

            I didn’t have to get involved with the narc again, but I was damn sure I was going to support the victim. And maybe that’s because I had been a victim, too.

          2. A Victor says:

            Wow, good point! How to help the victim without being affected by the narcissist. Probably not possible, except to refer the victim here.

          3. NarcAngel says:


            I chalk a lot of it up to the ‘hindsight is 20/20 thing. We see it because we’ve been targeted. If we had not – would we see it or just assume there’s something at play between the other parties that we are not privy to? Also, they may stay in the good graces of the narc because they stand to gain something from that relationship over the other and believe it would never happen to them – until it does. It will often be dismissed under the adage “two sides and all that”. They will continue to go about their business, and really, who could blame them? We didn’t all heed the warnings or ‘see through it’.

          4. lickemtomorrow says:

            You make some valid points, NA, and of course I can appreciate them.

            Not everyone is an empath and not all empaths are aware of the machinations of the narcissist. The girl I mentioned who turned out to be a Mid-Ranger was initially a good friend (or so I thought) and was able to display a great deal of cognitive empathy in the early stages. A veritable wolf in sheep’s clothing. I began to notice her behaviours before I was targeted myself and resist them. For me there were no ‘two sides to the story’ as I could clearly see she was manipulating. I don’t know if some people are more sensitive to these things, but while others were happy to join her in her manipulations, I was not. What happened eventually with my other friend was the tail of a long and ongoing saga which I had become aware of months earlier. So the reason others didn’t see through it may be purely down to personal sensitivities. Another reason may be they enjoyed gossip and I am not the gossipy type. She had a finger in many pies as she performed her manipulative art, and carried stories from one person to another while she built her little kingdom of Narcdom. There was a fundamental difference between her and I. I’ve seen it many times before and am highly attuned to it. Those who become victims I am happy to hear out and they will often seek me out as a listening ear. I make myself available. Because I can see what is happening. What that means is they are being heard. Depending on the circumstances it doesn’t necessarily mean I can change anything. But they will know that someone else knows and that they are not just going crazy with the gaslighting scenario the narcissist creates. It’s something we all needed to hear when we got here. That there is another side to the story, and it is ours.

    2. K says:


      1. Because no once cares.
      2. Because we are surrounded by Narcissists and this Challenges their reality/fantasy world (Denial).
      3. Because no one understands it.
      4. Because Normals aren’t targeted as often so they keep their Nose Down. Apathy = Apath.
      5. Because my IRL empaths have their ET up their ass and are completely useless.
      6. Because many people aren’t Truthseekers; they would rather be creeping on FaceBook.

      And then, when there is another school/mass shooting, everyone says: Why?!?!?! Why did this happen???
      And then they erroneously blame the NRA for societies ills. Talk about deflection!

      1. Asp Emp says:

        K, you made me laugh at number 6 – “creeping around on Facebook”. Brilliant & thank you.

        1. K says:

          My pleasure Asp Emp!
          Hahahahaha….my IRL Empaths creep on FB ALL the time; I would rather read a book.

          1. Asp Emp says:

            Yeah, and to think I used to enjoy FB! I log on / off once a day now.

          2. K says:

            Asp Emp
            It’s good to have a healthy attitude about FB (healthy from the non-narcissist’s POV) but some people end up with FOMO which can lead to feelings of depression/sadness.

            My sister gets malign hoovers from relatives; no thanks!

          3. Asp Emp says:

            I stopped because I needed to stop seeing so much shite about covid-this, covid-that which was mostly fake stuff and I just have gone ‘off’ FB. And TBH, seeing the ‘gloating’ about “Look, what I’ve done, aren’t I fab?” sort of stuff. I suppose I have changed the way I used to think. Sheet.

      2. WhoCares says:

        Good answers, K, and so true.

        Sometimes even when I encounter professional empaths (in the legal realm and psychology), they do care and see through the Narcissist but they are bound by the limitations of their professional role. They care but can only do so much. And because they are both caring and ACCOUNTABLE, there is a limitation to how they can respond without damaging their own professional reputation.
        But it is good to have such individuals in your corner because they will assist and fight and use their professional know-how in support of the true victim.

        Just my personal experience.

        1. Z - zwartbolleke says:

          Are you still able to access the forum?
          Can you please let me know?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            I have changed the password, email me and I will provide you with the new one.

          2. WhoCares says:

            Thank-you for asking!
            And HG, thank-you for answering.
            I myself was wondering about this.

        2. K says:

          Thank you WhoCares

          There are definitely limitations in professional capacities and I understand and respect that and some people may be afraid of losing their jobs if they speak up so they choose to remain silent (self-preservation) and who can blame them.

          As a parent, I see school bullying and child abuse that isn’t being properly addressed or it is ignored altogether; people love to complain about it but they won’t do a thing to mitigate it. It’s frustrating to watch.

          1. WhoCares says:


            I hear you re: the bullying. I have seen some interesting behaviours at my son’s school. I agree, bullying is not properly addressed or it is overlooked (where the elementary teacher is a narcissist).
            But I do think the issue is clouded over by misunderstanding.
            I myself have been guilty of not, initially, being fully cognizant of an instance of bullying among my son’s peers when he was in grade 1.
            It took place at the very the beginning of my court process and when I was self-representing and trying to establish stability in our lives – so, many distractions. My son was trying to bring my attention a classmate’s behaviour but my perspective was skewed by some ‘acting out’ behaviour on the part of my own son AND having witnessed the other child, that he was complaining about, in other contexts. I had seen this child play with other kids of much younger ages often (in a pre-schooler play group situation) and he seemed to get on so well with those younger than him and appeared caring and responsible. But in that context there was always his grandmother watching on and all the other parents in attendance with their children, so now, in hindsight I realized that this was performative.
            The reason I know is, at a parent-teacher meeting, my son’s grade one teacher admitted to being aware of this other child’s problematic behaviour. She identified him as being manipulative and said that ‘some kids enjoy being manipulative.’ And she had felt bad at first because she didn’t (like me) initially believe the complaints about this child from my son and other kids. But it became evident, as she spoke with other teachers who knew the manipulative child and this behaviour was confirmed by them. She then realized that some of her pupils were not feeling heard or validated when they spoke out. As I realized too, I wasn’t *hearing* my son – partly due to the fact that I was so involved in protecting us from his abusive father.
            Anyway, long story short, the teacher became more aware and also, the kids who had complained began advocating for themselves and knew this particular kid couldn’t be trusted. This child would bang his own head on the ground outside at recess and say that another kid did that to him,…or he would throw something important into the classroom waste basket and blame it on a classmate. Quite manipulative for a first-grader…and really frustrating for my son, until the adults in his life really took the time to hear him, as questions and investigate. But it takes effort – empathy and effort to do that…oh, and clear thinking!!

          2. WhoCares says:

            *ask questions and investigate

          3. WhoCares says:

            Oh, K – my apologies, that whole story took place when my son was in 2ND grade – blame it on ET!

        3. K says:

          No apologies necessary, you didn’t do anything wrong. Parenting alone, especially while defending yourself and your child from his abusive father, is overwhelming and unfair. You ended up shouldering the burden and, sadly, your son was shortchanged in the process but it’s not your fault! You caught it and the situation didn’t get out of hand and, with everything we have learned here, I am sure that any bullying in the future will be nipped in the bud rather quickly.

          Schools/staff do not understand child abuse or how it manifests (bullying/manipulating) and it is very clear that not much progress has been made in the last couple of decades. Ditto for law enforcement. Both the bully and the bullied need to be be handled with empathy, understanding and validation and parents need to be willing to speak up in defence of all children or school/mass shootings will just keep getting more frequent. Thank you for sharing your story.

          1. WhoCares says:


            Thank-you, yes I did manage to catch it in time.
            And, agreed, bullying definitely needs to be addressed differently.

      3. A Victor says:

        Good list K. I would add because they’re pushing a religious agenda/belief.

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          I think people’s own agendas definitely come into it and religion would definitely fit the bill. It’s not the only one, but it certainly qualifies. Especially where narcissist’s have been able to infiltrate and make it their game. Or where they get a ‘pass’ in the context of the beliefs being held. So much can be manipulated to suit the narcissist’s purpose.

          1. A Victor says:

            LET, true, people to intent on pushing their own agenda, whatever it is.

        2. K says:

          Thank you A Victor
          Yes, that can be # 7!

      4. lickemtomorrow says:

        Spot on, K!

        Thank you for responding to my question. You’ve given some great explanations about why people seem so willing to turn a blind eye, painful as it is to realize. You’re final point is very poignant, too, and probably goes to No.3 of the points you’ve made … because no one understands it. All the more reason to keep getting the word out there.

        I really appreciate your input on this one.

        1. K says:

          Thank you lickemtomorrow!

          It’s all about spreading the word and it’s always a pleasure to weigh in.

    3. BC30 says:

      Ok, maybe this is a bit much, but it’s been a rough few days of rumination. 💔

      It takes one to know one, which in my case, means I didn’t know such people existed. It took one to know one. Haha. Anyhow, I am able to pick them out now or get a ND, and if someone were to confide in me about a N, I would believe them.

      However, there is a caveat– not my circus not my monkeys.

      I know IPPS #2 “knows” something is wrong. She must suspect he is cheating. Seriously, coming home very late freshly showered, etc., but she can’t admit it and will turn a blind eye just like I did. When I confronted N about things, he lied. I “knew” he was lying, but I was scared of the pain. It did hurt when I escaped, but now I am on the other side and almost free.

      I turned a blind eye. I am having a REALLY DIFFICULT time forgiving myself.

      I am an angry at myself because I keep thinking that if he had confessed, I would have left sooner. I cannot know that that is true. I can’t go back in time to reset the crooked 5th brick in the Great Pyramid any more than go back to the evening I confronted him about the Big Lie. Again, I didn’t know that Ns exist. He was so convincing because he actually believed the lie in the moment. Nevertheless, rumination is killing me.

      1. lickemtomorrow says:

        I’m sorry you are going through a tough time, BC30, and you didn’t know so please don’t be too hard on yourself. We’ve all been duped in one way or another and I understand the need to step away – as in not my circus, not my monkeys – as well.

        No one wants to be hurt or feel the pain of having to confront certain issues, have reality sink in or illusions stripped away. That is human nature. We cling to those things at times because we need them for our own reasons and not with any malice towards anyone else. And I think that’s maybe the thing to keep in mind with the question that I asked.

        Most of us have been on the receiving end of the narc’s treachery, lies and smearing and often found ourselves completely at odds with people who were once our friends. It hurts. You will see the story I shared in reference to some of that kind of pain. Rather than it being a judgement on duped empaths, let it be a judgement on the narcissist who is duping people left, right and centre.

        While I think asking the question is important, it’s not meant to weigh anybody down. And I hope you won’t let it weigh you down anymore BC30 <3 I was likely thinking in a different context to you and not taking into account the variety of circumstances that can impact the decisions we all make at different times. And all of us have regrets. We shouldn't let them hold us back. Hopefully you won't, BC30 x

        1. BC30 says:

          LET I know you were talking about it in a different context, but I was just all in my feels yesterday. Sad for no particular reason, so I spent the day listening to orchestral renditions of love songs like “Perfect” and “With our Without You.” Bad idea, but must be done!

          Thank you for your encouragement, it means a lot. I think of both Ns nearly every day, but it’s because I can’t forgive myself for being duped. You are correct they are louses running around duping everybody. Not just love interests, but family and work and the local butcher.

          One more thing — the day I decided to go NC with #2, I was sobbing and telling my BFF about the last couple times I saw him and she said, “Ooooooooh, he’s good. He’s a narcissist.”

          WHAT?!?!?! WHY WHY WHY in the last 15 something odd years of our friendship did it occur to her then to tell me he was a narcissist?!?!

          We’ll never know. ❤️😂 Anyhow, that’s when I scoured the internet and found HG.

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            I love that you were in your “feels” yesterday BC30 and I’m guessing some of that goes to your Geyser xox I also love Ed Sheeran’s “Perfect” as well as U2’s “With or Without You”. I’ve said in the past I just like to sink in sometimes and let those emotions flow over me. It may seem like a bad idea, but as long as we come up for air I think it can help to empty us of some of the sad to let in the happy again.

            I also have a hard time forgiving myself for being duped. It’s one thing to know you’ve been duped, it’s another coming to terms with it. And it can leave us with so many regrets. I think I vacillate between sad and angry for the most part. Probably moved past most of the sad to just being plain pissed off now! Let me know what your PO’d songs are … I might like those, too. And LOL to the narc duping the local butcher as well. Is there anyone they don’t dupe? At least we’re not alone. If you could get all those duped people together maybe you could run the narc out of town!

            OMG! to your friend and coming out with it only after you went NC … what was she thinking? I guess you’re right when you say you will never know. It’s a mystery. And the truth is we don’t always take kindly to being told. The bonus being her finally telling you led you here <3 We've both had friends who inadvertently led us to this place. I'm hoping to lead a few here myself eventually.

            In the meantime, I hope you are feeling a little better and thank you for reassuring me about my comment. I would have felt bad if I'd made you feel bad. That was never my intention x

      2. A Victor says:

        BC30, I am a little confused, I thought you had recently said you were happy never to have been the IPPS? But, I totally get the “scared of the pain” part, this is why I believed anything my ex told me. No way to live.

        1. BC30 says:

          Correct. I am glad I was never an IPPS. I cannot imagine living the daily horror show I read about here. I’ve so much empathy for all who lived it.

          Toward the end with #2, looking back, there were signs that I had fallen from grace, but most of the time it was gifts, romantic dinners and weekend get aways. I’m happy I never lived the experiences HG describes in articles like War Zone and What Goes on Below, etc.

          Ironically, I tried to escape so many times, so #2 began planning our elopement in Italy. I laugh at myself now for buying any of it. I also recall telling my BFF, “What if I’m around him all the time and don’t like him? I’m not sure I will like him.” 😂

          I wouldn’t have lasted long as an IPPS anyhow. Not because I’m strong or anything, but it’s my nature to run off and get revenge and otherwise entertain myself, #1 and #2 are MRs who wouldn’t have abided my shenanigans for long.

          1. A Victor says:

            BC30, it is interesting how we each have our perception of what would be worse. I had the experience, between husbands, of having a couple of short relationships (of the one night stand sort, embarrassingly for me now) because after the fact I learned they had girlfriends. That was it, communication over, and I was very angry at them, doing that to these poor women. Hypocritical in a sense since I did cheat on my first husband but, the caveat for that is that we were separated and I had no intention of going back, I just hadn’t told him that yet, so I was able to downplay the “cheating” aspect of it in my own mind. But for me, it would have been impossible to be the “other” woman, yet the daily horror was one I could tolerate. This is very interesting, not sure how it all fits. Thank you for your openness regarding this, I think it is helping me to see this from a different perspective. And it all falls squarely back on the narcissists shoulders because they are not (did not treat) treating either of us with any respect!

  3. Curious says:

    What if the person is married and you only found out later by a fluke Google search (he lived in a different country temporarily for work). Would he be fearful you’d tell his wife or his family after he ghosted you when he realized you knew? What would be his feelings if you did tell?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      If you are thinking about telling his wife, forget it. If he is a narcissist concentrate on your no contact regime and forget about telling the wife about what he has been doing, it is not in your best interests.

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