The Love Triangle


Triangulation is a devastating weapon in our arsenal. Whether we are triangulating you as our primary source with another potential love interest (real or imagined), you with family and friends in terms of loyalties and spending time together or even triangulating you with an object (our mobile ‘phone or our flash new car) you will always be triangulated when you entangle with our kind.

Triangulation comes in many guises but has two broad categories. Firstly, there is the triangulation which is taking place but you do not even witness it. This is where we may be conducting an affair behind your back and you have no knowledge of it at all. This is still triangulation because we are involving three people in our intimate relationship but you do not witness it and the third party may not know about you either. The second category is where you witness the behaviour.

For instance, we spend more time jabbing our mobile ‘phone and talking on it than spending time with you. We may make mention of a particular person (usually of the opposite sex) a lot of the time. We may even tell you that we have been carrying on with someone else because you do not show us enough admiration and appreciation. In such instances, you witness the triangulating behaviour but often you will not actually realise that it is taking place.

This is hiding in plain sight. You dismiss it by trying to convince yourself that there is nothing to be concerned about or we may assuage your fears through our usual charm and persuasion. One thing that you can be assured of however is that you will be triangulated during your entanglement with us and it will not just happen the once.

This reliance on triangulation as part of our manipulations is because it is so effective at achieving many things for us. What then, does triangulation achieve?

–         It is often easy to implement, e.g. making mention of someone, spending our time playing video games, meeting someone frequently, perking up when a certain person calls round or telephones;

–         We gain fuel from two sources out of the same circumstances;

–         It underlines our notion of omnipotence since we are able to orchestrate the actions of two people so they compete with one another over us, we are the puppet master jerking the strings of two love rivals;

–          It creates uncertainty in one or more of the parties which makes it easier for us to exert control and harder for the party or parties to see clearly;

–         It causes the participants to focus on defeating one another in order to win us as the prize and thus they do not realise that we are really the problem;

–         It allows a discarded primary source to be smeared with ease;

–         It assists the maintenance of our façade.

Accordingly, the act of triangulation serves many purposes which accord with our malevolent agenda.

Why then is it so effective? Again, there are several reasons behind this.

–         The addictive quality of our seduction and the golden period is so powerful that it is truly regarded as a prize worth winning;

–         The fear of losing someone so (apparently) wonderful, loving and magnificent is too great to bear;

–         The fear that someone else might actually succeed with the relationship when you are trying to reach that point. You do not want someone to reap the reward of your hard work and instead you want to win the day, continue to deal with the hardships in order to restore the golden period;

–         You feel that you know us far better than the other person;

–         You feel that it is your right. You have given everything to the relationship and therefore it is only just and fair that you get to have the relationship. You may have borne our children, helped us through difficulties, lent us money, housed us, dealt with problems for us and you are damned if some Jane-Come-Lately is going to profit from all your hard work.

These are all valid factors as to why the act of triangulation is so powerful and an effective. Yet, let me provide you with another reason, one which is possibly just as powerful as the addictive quality of the golden period. That reason is conditioning.

You are conditioned to think that love triangles are not only fairly common and something that is part of life, but you have been conditioned to think that they are actually rather wonderful and special. This may seem somewhat perverted thinking when you consider the agony and anxiety you experienced or you are experiencing when you are being triangulated, especially with a love rival, but it is a fact. Why is the love triangle scenario seen as something wonderful?

–         It gives you the opportunity to prove you love us better and deeper than anybody else and with that comes a powerful sense of self and validation;

–         It accords with your belief in the maxim that love can conquer all. You are a love devotee and therefore you believe in and want to see love triumph. When your love sees off a rival, that is the power of true love.

–         The love rival is the enemy. This just isn’t you against her in order to win our hearts, it is light versus darkness, good against evil, love versus lust. You are a representative of the powers of light and goodness and you will overcome your dark nemesis. Of course, what you do not realise at the time is that the person you are fighting over is actually your nemesis and we are not going to remove that notion from you.

–         It is actually pretty damn hot and exciting. Your senses are alive, you are going to keep our heart/win it back, the tug-of-love although worrying at times also provides you with high-octane excitement, the rush of adrenaline when you score a victory, the elation at seeing us choose to spend time with you and not the other person. This back and forth, push and pull, is regarded as thrilling.

Why then are you conditioned to think and feel in the ways that I have described? Simple. You are surrounded by love triangles. They are throughout history, they are in film, in literature, you see them in the celebrity gossip sections of newspapers, they are commented on in internet forums, they feature on the news, you watch them unfold in soap operas on television and you bought the t-shirt supporting Team Jacob or Team Edward. Or was it Peeta or Gale?

You cannot get through the day without seeing or hearing about some kind of love triangle and it is always portrayed in a salacious, exciting, mesmerising and romantic way. Who will triumph? How noble to fight over one person’s heart? However much you may not want to admit it, you know that the concept of a love triangle is alluring and fascinating. You do not often hear somebody declare,

“All three people need to take a long look at themselves, stay away from another and evaluate what is really going on before they continue to hurt themselves and others.”

Of course you don’t. Where is the excitement in that?

You have been fed a daily diet of triangulation throughout your life so you actually regard it as something to be expected and something that excites. In order to prove this point, I have compiled, off the top of my head, as many love triangles as I could think of in literature, film and real-life in just five minutes. Consider the following: –



Twelfth Night, Dr Zhivago, Dangerous Liaisons, Tale of Two Cities, Lolita, The Great Gatsby, Atonement, The Talented Mr Ripley, Don Quixote, The Count of Monte Cristo, The Age of Innocence, The Phantom of the Opera, The Twilight Saga, The Hunger Games Trilogy, Harry Potter and my favourite Wuthering Heights




Gone With the Wind, Casablanca, His Girl Friday, The Graduate, Oklahoma! Damage, Titanic, Bridget Jones, Closer, Vanilla Sky, Sabrina, Grifters, She’s The Man (Twelfth Night), Indecent Proposal, Being John Malkovich, Fight Club (imagine being triangulated by an imaginary person created by yourself!)


Real Life


Cleopatra, Mark Antony and Julius Caesar (which actually went further as Mark Antony had two wives already)

Helen of Sparta, Menelaus and Paris of Troy 

Meg Ryan, Dennis Quaid and Russell Crowe

Bill Clinton, Hilary Clinton and Monica Lewinsky

Liz Taylor, Richard Burton and Eddie Fisher (Taylor and Burton met whilst filming Cleopatra – triangles within triangles!)

Kristen Stewart, Robert Pattison and Rubert Sanders (not only did Sanders also have a wife and kids but Stewart seemingly though her fictional triangulation was not enough and wanted a real-life version too!)

I would be interested to know if you think that any of our kind exist in those love triangles and who it is.

I am sure you can think of many others and please do make those suggestions. This is what I came up with in a short time and it does not end there. You are triangulated by products and advertisers – are you an Xbox player or PlayStation, red or brown sauce on your bacon sandwich, Pepsi or Coca-Cola – on it goes. With such a backdrop of triangulation across society, thrust in your face every day you are consequently conditioned in the way that I have described. You have no chance but to be affected in this way. Accordingly, when our kind comes along, the master practitioners of triangulation, you do not stand a chance.

75 thoughts on “The Love Triangle

  1. Alexander the Authentic says:

    Here are my guesses on the love triangles.

    Pattison (Empath), Stewart (Narcissist), Sanders (Narcissist)
    Quaid (Narcissist), Ryan (Empath), Crowe (Narcissist)
    Bill (Narcissist), Hillary (Narcissist), Monica (Empath)
    Taylor (Narcissist), Burton (Narcissist), Fisher (Narcissist)
    Cleopatra (Narcissist), Anthony (Narcissist), Caesar (Narcissist)

    Fictional Love Triangles
    The Dark Knight
    Bruce, Rachel, Harvey
    Peter, Mary Jane, Harry
    Beauty and the Beast
    Gaston, Belle, Beast

    Real life Love Triangles
    Parker, Longoria, Barry
    Law, Miller, Nanny
    Schwarzenegger, Shriver, Nanny
    Kutcher, Moore, Leal
    JFK, Jackie, Marilyn

    Real life Business Triangle
    Exotic, Baskin, Lowe

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Good observations.

      1. Alex the Authentic says:

        Thanks HG.

  2. NarcAngel says:

    * TS and NA immediately Google Sudbury Hall and check in to the Knowing HG forum…….


    1. Truthseeker6157 says:


      I didn’t Google it right away actually. About 5 seconds!

      1. A Victor says:

        I did this also!! Yay! It’s starting to catch on!

  3. Another Cat says:

    Sigh. The only people who aren’t so affected by these spectacles, are the Normals. I admire and envy their
    wisdom in this. Their minds have relief.

    Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton and Monica Lewinsky
    HG, you have taught us too much about how different types of narcs behave, the publicity stunts, the drama, the “I’m ready to talk to Oprah for $$$$” so I see three narcs here. Monica too.
    (help me out if I’m wrong on Monica)

    Just like Lady Gaga, Marina Shayk and Bradley. Three actors, publicity stunt, no one got hurt (I presume).

    Katie Holmes seems a stealth narc type (reminds me a lot of a girl at high school, and a teacher at my kids’ school). So in her triangle with Tom Cruise, there are two.

    1. A Victor says:

      Hi AC, I think the normals are affected by triangulation in the sense that it causes them to purchase things. But, they probably shake their heads at the romantic triangulation, not realizing it is the same manipulation as in advertising, which is used against them. If triangulation didn’t sell to the largest crowd, there would be shift in selling tactics, I would think. I also envy them, even as they annoy me.

      1. Another Cat says:

        Howdy, AV.
        Yes they are probably a bitsy affected too, at least financially.

        A friend who lives a couple of houses away, might be married to a narc (if he is not a Normal, we have mentioned this question on lunches, they have a successful life as scientists so she might not feel too abused at this point, idk) asked me about Normals.

        I told her I think they “keep societies together”, they might not be scammed or ensnared so easily. Myself I always feel for the person who seems left outside in a company, or is new. So I like to introduced them and help out. I don’t have a heart not to. And this is exactly how I’ve met some narcissists.

        Normals don’t feel this kind of responsibility, I gather.

        1. Alexissmith2016 says:

          AV/AC I don’t know how much normals keep society together? Thinking of one person I perceive as a normal. Whilst she would not be ensnared by one herself, she is friends with some. She thinks they’re all really nice people and takes everything they say as gospel. She’s an intelligent woman but so are the narcs ans because intellectually she sees them as being correct about things (when they are), she will challenge them if she believes they’re incorrect. But because largely they sss things along the same lines intellectually she then believes any smears of others and takes it as gospel. Even when she has seen for herself the smears are lies.

          HG also writes I think in one of his Covid 19 articles or the America you are being conned how there are misguided normals. I forget exactly. But misguided normals from my perspective are actually a real threat If they mix with the wrong people.

          1. A Victor says:

            Alexissmith, your points make a lot if sense. Now I’m back to annoyed by them. They are likely part of the problem if they’re not part of the solution.

          2. Another Cat says:

            Alexis wrote

            “But because largely they sss things along the same lines intellectually she then believes any smears of others and takes it as gospel.”

            I guess the same problem as some of us empaths have. Sometimes believing what is actually a smear.

            I guess some 100 % super-empaths might be the ones to believe in the least amount of smears then? That’s a very small percentage of humans.

            This is how I picture Normals: They are the bulk of humans maybe due to natural selection. Let’s say the town budget hinges upon the citizens not being scammed to often? Not believing in every proposal/sales pitch. Normals dare to be boring and say “Nah…” .

          3. Another Cat says:

            You guys,
            Now HG confirmed in another comment that Monica Lewinsky is an empath after all. Guess I was wrong.

            I felt sorry for the wife all these years when Monica made statement after statement, after statement in the media. Interviews, books, articles, etc.

            I thought to myself “Does this Monica have zero compassion for the wife,

            constantly, year after year, reminding the world of that Hillary’s husband, for a few weeks – way back when – prefer red her over Hillary?”

            Well, but now I understand that she doesn’t have that stare, and there are apologies and compassion for Hillary in those interviews.

        2. A Victor says:

          AC, oh yes, those are good thoughts about normals, things I hadn’t thought of, now they won’t annoy me as much. Thank you.

      2. BC30 says:

        Replying here about choosing normal or empath if given the choice. I think only one of my siblings is a normal. Maybe….

        It’s difficult to describe, but nothing phases her, she is very balanced, but also does a lot of caring things for others. Her reactions to life amaze me.

        House burned down? No worries! We’ll build a new one.
        Car wreck? Everyone is ok, so it’s not a big deal.
        Medivac by helicopter to deliver very preemie baby? We’ll be a the hospital waiting for you all. Love you!

        It’s as if everything that happens ALWAYS works out for her (even the tragedies). Kinda like Ferris Bueller. The rest of us are a bunch of fucking Geysers I assure you. 😂

        IDK she just doesn’t seem emotional enough to be an empath. .

        Meanwhile, we have a group text chat and say good morning and goodnight, and share occasionally other news or memes, everyday. Some of us live next door to one another and some of us live on the other side of the continent. LOL But we check in twice a day not matter what.

        1. A Victor says:

          This is how my kids and I are, group text that runs on. Frequent contact, not daily with everyone but several times a week we all touch base with each other. No drama, or very very little, now that they’re adults-haha. At one time we had 4 hormonal females living under one roof, there was a little drama back then. It is a good way to live.

          1. BC30 says:

            Time marches on, haha and now we have another bunch of teenagers, a new generation, but nothing really changes.

    2. BC30 says:

      Monica is an empath. She was ensnared by the everw-so-charismatic prez who doesn’t respect work boundaries. I really feel for her, but she’s very sharp and has a great sense of humor and comedic timing.

      1. BC30 says:

        Ugh. Typos. Hate them, but can’t edit.

        1. Another Cat says:

          … maybe some empaths are very business minded, but all that cash-in and press speak-outs she’s been doing regularly for decades, living off those few encounters back in the 90s, seriously had me wondering.

  4. Sophie says:

    Twilight: Bella is the narcissist.
    Gone with the Wind: Scarlett
    The Great Gatsby: The obvious choice is Gatsby himself but Nick is such an unreliable narrator. Is he the narcissist? Maybe they all are. They’re all pretty terrible.
    Wuthering Heights: Heathcliff.

    I’d like to hear more of your thoughts on characters from literature and which ones are accurate depictions of narcissism and what this means about the writers.

    1. Truthseeker6157 says:

      See I love Scarlett !! I almost christened my daughter Scarlett. I have an unfortunate surname though.

      1. BC30 says:

        I went to school with a girl named Jessica Tampon. Yes. I’m serious. Poor girl. I’d have changed my name the second I was able. Mine is dull and plain, but I’ll take it!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Always sensible to change the tampon.

          1. Truthseeker6157 says:

            “Always sensible to change the Tampon”

            Annnnd, you went there. Haha.

        2. Truthseeker6157 says:


          Oh that poor girl! Fortunately I didn’t grow up with my surname. It was acquired. It’s not horrendous, matching it with Scarlett though would not have been one of my better moves!

          Sam (my son) laughs the surname off. As for my daughter Sophie, well, Sophie is a force to be reckoned with. I do see a hint of Geyser in Sophie, or, what I believe to be Geyser from the comments I read here.

          As an aside, something odd happened with Sam this morning. He was leaving for school, I was on the stairs.” I said “Bye, love you, have a good day.” He said “You too! ” and closed the door. He then reopened the door a second later, and said, “ That sounded like I didn’t know you. Bye, love you mum.”

          His original response bothered him enough for him to have to amend it. I see an empath there too. That isn’t a ‘normal’ behaviour. I try not to read too much into my kids in terms of traits, but just occasionally, they’ll say or do something that really makes me wonder.

          1. Asp Emp says:

            TS, yes it would have been a bloody mess…. “matching it with Scarlett though”. It was good to read about Sam – him coming back into the house and saying what he did – ah, bless him.

          2. A Victor says:

            My son came to me and asked if I wanted to watch something with him last Sun, (American) Mothers Day. He rejects when I ask him, he’s 18, too busy. So on Sun we did, as he left when it finished i thanked him and said it was fun. He said “It was.” It was touching, those moments with them are so special. And at the time I also wondered again, empath or normal?

          3. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Asp, hahaha, bum tish!

            AV, that’s sweet. It’s the little things isn’t it? As they get older, time means a lot.If you had the choice, would you wish for empath or normal for your son?

            It brings us back to the same questions again doesn’t it? How is an empath formed? Do my kids carry the gene or not? Am I simply seeing what I hope to see?

          4. A Victor says:

            Much as they annoy me, I would wish normal. I think normals lives are generally easier. I know, I worry about those questions all the time. I wish all of my kids would do the empath detector! But so far, no go. Maybe I’ll buy them each one for a birthday present!

          5. JB says:

            TS6157, I really love your son’s response! That must have really tugged at your heartstrings. It brought a tear to my eye just reading about it!

          6. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey JB,

            Thank you. It really did tug at my heart strings. I really hadn’t thought anything of it, just that he was flying out of the door to catch the bus! He thought something of it though, it bothered him. Proud mama haha. Xx

          7. BC30 says:

            We ALWAYS say ❤️ when we leave company, no matter where we are going or for how long we will be away. It could be a quick trip to the market, after a chat on the phone, or before months abroad. It doesn’t matter, every time. It’s how I was raised. It’s second nature. I sounds like your son has an amazing ❤️

          8. A Victor says:

            I love this, my ex and I always said “I love you” and kissed good bye. I think he allowed it because it afforded him control over me, if I kissed him, any frustration or anger would dissipate. So it was a habit worth keeping for him, I think. The last year I did not kiss him. Not once. But, a good outcome was that now my kids and I always say “love you” when leaving. It is good. I appreciate you sharing your sweet story of how empaths interact. I would love to see more examples of that, for so many reasons. It’s a little glimpse into something I know little about. Thank you!

          9. Truthseeker6157 says:

            BC30 AV,

            I’m glad my comment made you smile and was something you recognised. The saying of ‘love you’ as we leave or before bed is precious I think because it’s so quick, so small, but so very genuine. AV, the difference between the feeling you got from your ex and that little ‘love you’ from your kids as they fly out the door must be very apparent to you now. You can feel it when it’s genuine. It’s why we give that little smile to ourselves I think, the emotion landing, and us feeling it.

            You said you would likely choose ‘normal’ for your children if given a choice. Logically my head would answer the same. Many empaths here have had to deal with the downside of their empathic nature and we truly dread the thought of ensnarement for our kids.

            I think there is also an upside to it though. I think we see the world in full colour and with all its hues, we feel so much that others miss. I think our highs are far more intense, more crisp. Sadly so are the lows. I also think the world is crying out for more of our kind. So for my own kids in many ways I’m torn between heart and head.

            Screw it, I’m in a room full of empaths, you all know which I’d choose! Haha! Xx

          10. A Victor says:

            TS, what’s really sad is that I never doubted that he meant it, I meant it so why would I? Yes, I would also be happy with empath for my children, and at least a couple are I’m quite sure. I agree about the colors etc.

            Also, your son sounds like a very sweet young man. Those seemingly ‘little’ things are what often touch us the most.

          11. JB says:

            TS, proud mama indeed! Made me smile for hours, reading that! So lovely to see our kids showing their empathic traits! 😍

          12. Truthseeker6157 says:


            It is sad that you never doubted your husbands words were genuine. Exactly, why would you? We often see what we wish to see and hear what we wish to hear. I know I did with online narc. As HG points out, we assume that because we have genuine emotion so do they. We weren’t on the look out for fake emotion so we couldn’t have known. We just perhaps think that people show love in different ways. Yes they do, but we are sensitive to genuine emotion, we do in fact recognise it.

            The feeling we get when our kids say ‘I love you’ or the warmth we feel when hugged by a true friend, that’s real. The emotional stamp if you like. We do know when it’s genuine. If that feeling isn’t there, then it isn’t genuine. I do believe once our eyes are open as they are now, we can recognise the difference and very accurately. This might be a Contagion element. I don’t think so. I think we can all feel it.

            HG is confident that he is great in bed. If you look at that though, the art of lovemaking, that can be learned. Sleep your way through a whole heap of partners and it can be learned very well indeed. In fact, if you learn that well enough the partner is so lost in physical sensation or anticipation, that the lack of emotional content could conceivably be concealed. Anticipation, pure sexual skill, withholding, lack of certainty as to what will happen etc, yes they provide control, they also conceal what is absent. I don’t doubt that HG is good in bed, because HG has to be.

            Now look at the one thing HG detests and considers beneath him. Hugs. How could anyone not like hugs? A harmless hug. Not harmless to HG. Hugs are not like sex. Hugs are a very close emotional connection, very specific, no opportunity for distraction. You could apply the correct holding pressure, he has the height and the bulk to create a safe feeling, but hugs, hmmm, hugs are very revealing. Think about the context of when we hug and the key factor is high emotional content. It isn’t the hug itself. It’s the fact we can feel the emotional stamp of the hug. HG has no emotional stamp. If I was HG I would steer well clear of hugs too.

            You might not have realised in the past that your husband’s words actions or emotions weren’t genuine. You do know the difference though. I think you would be more likely to recognise this in the future. I propose hugs be added to red flags. Top test. Hug them. Straight out the traps ha ha! Xx

          13. A Victor says:

            Hi TS,
            The “I love you’s” from my ex were involved with my cognitive dissonance in a big way. I would think to myself sometimes, how can he do that when he says that?? But I would always go with the words over the actions. And I believe he knew that the words and the kisses were a way to control me, so he used them.

            I actually dislike hugs also, very much, I would say hate but I hate using that word, haha. It is a carry-over from my mother, who would insist on physical contact after abusing us. I think it also is a symptom of the fact that I cannot ask for needs to be met, another thing that will hopefully be addressed at some point. I actually feel nausea when most people want to hug me. I never ask for one or offer one, absolutely never. Even a pat on the shoulder is difficult for me to do for someone, though I don’t mind receiving that at the same level. The only ones who I hug, and I do actually enjoy it, are my kids, not their spouses, and grandkids. My ex used to love hugging, I was very happy to do so with him also, though now I feel it was again, control. So I don’t trust hugs or my ability to interpret them, and even less so now. Often I feel they are given out cheaply, I only want to hug those who I really care about. Does this make me…shallow, judgmental? It is just self protection and observation, from my perspective. Maybe it will change as I learn more. Eye contact is also an issue for me, it was used abusively and I have no idea still how to do it properly. It makes me very uncomfortable in most situations, until I reach a certain comfort level with the other person.

            With regard to sex, my ex was absolutely convinced he was the world’s greatest lover. And, he’d had many partners prior to me, but never a long term relationship. Yes, the initial giddiness, the initial getting comfortable and to know another, all help them “hide” their lack of actual emotion, as well as a lack of technical ability in my ex’s case. I should’ve run like the wind from the sexual aspect alone, once it became clear. He just did not care. But again, cognitive dissonance. When I realize how powerful that has been in my life, it really frightening. I am really going on faith here that I can get past it.

          14. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Oh AV, I’m so very sorry, I had no idea. I feel terrible. Me and my big mouth.

            I see what you mean now about wanting to understand how ‘normal’ relationships function. Your mother has taken gestures that are the most loving and twisted them beyond all recognition. Addiction aside, it’s no wonder you question if you will recognise genuine affection from that which is just made to look like affection.

            Time is needed I think AV. The more accounts we read here, the more personal experiences shared, good and bad, the more we are on the lookout for red flags, then the more our odds improve. The chances of healthy interactions and relationships go up.

            Two crucial factors have caught us all out in some form or another up until now I think. The addiction and more importantly lack of awareness of narcissists and what they do. We are in a far stronger position than when we arrived and we are learning more and reinforcing our understanding every day.

            Our ET is also falling every day that we stay in No Contact. We remove ourselves from narcissistic influence wherever possible and that ET remains low. ET feeds in to the cognitive dissonance too I think, so we have to keep it low as a priority. I questioned HG once about how I’ve managed to avoid ensnarement up until now ( I’ve since identified one additional ensnarement) given the environment I was working in was likely narc friendly. His response was that it was likely my ET was at a consistently low level, so I wasn’t drawn in. I readily admit to ruling people out and that might be why I do it.

            When the time comes for people to enter into new relationships then there is a safety net in the form of the NDC. That’s there for a reason and it’s accurate so we need to make use of it. Our chances of remaining narc free are vastly improved compared to pre HG and the blog. I have confidence that you will get a handle on the cognitive dissonance AV and keeping your mother as far at arms length as possible is really important.

            As for your mother, I can’t find strong enough words to voice how utterly despicable that woman’s betrayal was. To abuse and then use something as loving as a hug afterwards is utterly nauseating. For you to be able to reject the impact of this and create such a bond with your own children, just serves to illustrate how strong your innate empathy is.

            I’m so sorry for using hugs as an example of emotional content when that avenue was never open to you. If HG has similar reasons for his dislike of hugs too, then I apologise to him for the misread. I looked at it as a manipulation on his part or as a way for us to spot something that is missing. I didn’t consider it as a possible trauma from his past. My apologies HG if this is the case.

          15. A Victor says:

            TS, there is no need to apologize, you had no way of knowing and it’s not a big deal for me. I was just sharing some information about myself with you in response, I understood it was only an example. 🙂

            I think many narcs use things like hugs against us. I have another that I suspect is, who is currently no where near me, but her big thing was always hugs, even knowing how I felt about them. I absolutely hated having to interact with her but felt obligated to do so for a variety of reasons. My “break” from her came after an “episode” as her mother calls it. I didn’t see it as such, I saw it as a narcissist in a complete tailspin of trying to assert control and not having the success she wanted. Her mother is a very good friend of mine and is aware of narcissism. She was in fact the first person to bring it up to me, last summer but unrelated entirely from the Summer Narc. She gave me a book to read about it. The book has nothing on HG’s material, only useful in that the timing of it was interesting because of the SN, it got me thinking.

            I have had the impression that HG’s aversion to hugs is from the perspective that it could potentially cause some unwanted “feeling” of attachment to occur for an appliance, if it were allowed to happen beyond use as a method of control. My knowledge of it from his perspective is very limited so that is likely incorrect.

          16. Truthseeker6157 says:


            It sounds like a boundary recognition issue with your friend. If she knows you dislike hugs, and still goes ahead with close physical contact / hugs then she isn’t respecting boundaries and your discomfort is likely fuel. It sounds like your instincts are correct. I wonder if her mother suspects too. Narcissism isn’t a topic you fall over. It’s a topic you find when searching for answers.


          17. Bubbles says:

            Dearest A Victor,
            I relate to your comment regarding hugging and touching !
            I absolutely luv hugs with my “immediate” family because I nurtured them and some extremely close friends, however, anyone else, I’m ummmmmmm…… not 💯 % comfortable ! (Particularly with men)
            I like it when “I” instigate it, not when others do … I like to pick n choose!
            Same goes with handshakes ……hate hate hate ……thank heavens for Covid in that regard! I too, dislike a hand on my shoulder !
            My mum has always done false hugs along with everything else that’s false with her !
            I luv hugs, yet I don’t!
            Same with photos of myself, I dislike others taking pics without my permission !
            My daughter gives me extra long hugs, she knows when I’ve had long enough, I feel a tad constricted and uncomfortable …..I get a little claustrophobic and need air and space! Must be a feeling of being trapped!
            Same goes with being out shopping, I luv it, however, I know when it’s time to go ….. too many people
            I luv that your son sat with you and watched TV on Mother’s Day ! That’s sooooo sweet, particularly an 18 year old ! Hehe
            From one empath to another, here’s sending you a ‘virtual’ hug 🤗
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        3. leelasfuelstinks says:

          Mine is very frequent, very standard like “John Smith” 😂

          Yes, way better than Jessica Tampon. 😯

          1. Eternity says:

            I had a teacher. His name with Mr. Dick and he actually was one.
            He preferred to be call me D. I got in trouble laughing so hard that he pushed my desk out in the hallway. He called my parents to come to the school and my dad arrived and couldn’t pronounce his name because of his Europeon accent and bad english. I was laughing even harder.
            Mr. Dick turned so red,my dad didn’t know what was happening. I will never forget it.

          2. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Mr. Dick. I love it 🤣🤣🤣 Wouldn´t be able to pronounce his name without bursting into loud laughter. 🤣🤣🤣

          3. Eternity says:

            I know it pronounced Mr. DEEK

          4. Eternity says:

            I mean he pronounced it Mr. Deek.

          5. Asp Emp says:

            Same here….. laughing….. I think I’d start laughing even BEFORE attempting to say his name….. laughing…….

          6. Asp Emp says:

            Laughing…… you reminded me.,….there was a matron called Miss Dick but we called her Rabbit Teeth. She was such a bully & feisty one…… she was asked to leave because she went too far with her ‘bullying’ (hands-on punishments) of which I am sure that a number of parents raised complaints about…..

          7. Eternity says:

            Laughing so hard right now because of this memory.
            Mr. Dick also gave me a D Grade at the of year.
            My parents asked what is the D I said it is a D for DARN GOOD!

          8. Asp Emp says:

            Mr Deek sounds like a right Dick!!

            Grade D = Distinction !! 😉

          9. Eternity says:

            Ha ha or Dysfunctional!

          10. A Victor says:

            My somewhat unusual first name generally gets butchered by people who don’t know correct phonetic rules. All my girl’s have clear, easy to pronounce, common names as a result. My son didn’t get quite so lucky, his dad insisted on that one. Poor kid.

          11. Truthseeker6157 says:


            That cracked me up. Your dad’s role there is classic!

          12. Eternity says:

            Oh yes he is hilarious when trying to pronounce English words. My mom used to watch a show Falcon Crest and would pronounce Falcon ‘fucken” without realizing.

          13. Asp Emp says:

            Laughing…… ah, that one is brilliant….. fkg hilarious actually……

          14. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Hahaha, he sounds sweet. Gawwd, Falcon Crest! My mum used to watch that, I can still remember the intro music and character intros. Dallas and Dynasty too, they go without saying. The pre iPad / smartphone days. I’m starting to feel nostalgic!

          15. Eternity says:

            Yes , I remember them and don’t forget Knots Landing.

          16. BC30 says:

            Oh wow. I hadn’t though of those old soaps in ages!

          17. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Similar vein, different theme. This tune takes me back to my lounge as a little kid, very vivid, my mum is in the kitchen cooking dinner. I can see her from where I’m sitting. All the details of the room, carpet, curtains, pictures, ornaments, as if I’m there now. I can see what my mum is wearing. Don’t know what’s for dinner though haha.

            HG, remember this? Does it transport you back anywhere? Odd tune.


          18. HG Tudor says:

            I recall this programme, but it had not invaded my consciousness for quite some time. The opening contains footage of Sudbury Hall, a place I know.

          19. JB says:

            Eternity, Knots Landing! Wow! Takes me back!

          20. Eternity says:

            Good times!

          21. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Thought it might ring a bell.

            I did wonder about the opening sequence. Interesting response, thank you.

        4. JB says:

          BC30, I went to school with someone called Andrew Cock. I mean, what kind of parent gives their kid the name A Cock?! Still tickles me now, after all these years! 😂

          1. NarcAngel says:

            My husband’s Grandmother named her three boys Tom, Dick, and Harry.

          2. Asp Emp says:

            JB, gawd….. this thread……. laughing…… imagine being at a doctor’s surgery with that name being called out…… crying with laughter…..

          3. A Victor says:

            A narcissist gives a name like that! Poor Andrew!

          4. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Re: Tom Dick and Harry.

            See, there’s some real thought gone into that. Haha!

          5. BC30 says:

            I guess they didn’t think that through 😆

          6. JB says:

            NA, ha ha! And why not? 😂

          7. JB says:

            Asp Emp, I know!! Yeah, just imagine at the doc’s.. “Andrew Cock, Andrew A Cock here?” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

          8. JB says:

            AV, I know! 😂

  5. leelasfuelstinks says:

    Yes! I know that one very well!

    “Look at [Jane]! She weighs only XY kilos. How much do YOU weigh? Huh? How much?”
    (Patri Narc)

    “Look at [Mary]! She´s always so well groomed and well dressed. Look at YOUR sloppy dressing! Terrible”
    (Patri Narc)

    “I´m hanging out with you a lot. I hope my future partner will accept that and not going to be jealous of you. I don´t want to decide between her and you”
    (MMR A who claimed to be “single”. Yeah. Sure. 🙄 Thank you very much for triangulation! 🤦‍♀️)

    “My ex wife always did ..[this and that]!”
    (Upper Lesser A Somatic EX. Thank you for triangulation 🤦‍♀️)

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