What Goes On Below
“Do that again and you will regret it.”
Those are the words which I will speak in about five minutes, but I am getting ahead of myself.
Welcome to my court. Here I am, sat at my rightful place at the head of the table. Prominent, elevated and overseer of those that have been magnanimously invited to look upon me and bask in their admiration of my glory. I sit, fork in one hand and knife in the other. There is food on my plate but I pay it no regard as I did not prepare it. Instead I am smiling. That rich, bountiful smile of the generous ruler that I am as I allow my subjects to draw close to me and experience a fragment of what it is like to be as brilliant as me. I know I am brilliant because right now the flames of power are high and bright inside of me.
They are strong, they are intense and the power they imbue is washing back and forth over me, causing this rictus grin to become affixed to my face. I could not remove this smile even if I wanted to because it has been plastered there by the power that is coursing through me.
This power is edifying and invigorating, twisting flames which dart and climb inside of me so that I feel as if I am taking off. I have to fight to remain in my seat as I want to leap onto the table, booted feet scattering plates and glasses as I allow this power to overwhelm me and I surge towards a higher place and thus empowered I will speak to those assembled and dazzle them.
My mind races, thoughts fighting with one another. I see the smiling faces, the open mouths denoting laughter, I can hear the delight and amusement that I have caused amongst my dinner guests. I did that. I had all eyes on me, those eyes widening with interest and adoration as I regaled my anecdote to the guests. Each focused pair of eyes, the expressions of concentration, the rapt attention that was flowing my way, the mouths closed, set silent not daring to nor needing to interrupt me, all demonstrated that I was the sole attraction here.
As my own eyes looked from face to face, never truly distinguishing who each person was, I drank in the fuel. It was not the recognition of who those people are but rather the emotions that I could see, hear and sense. Each look of admiration, each closed mouth which told me that the floor was mine and they had no need to interrupt as they wanted to listen, from each of the people sat around the table caused fuel to flow towards me, just as I wanted. Here, in my court, sat in my throne, I am surrounded by my lieutenants and members of my coterie.
These inner circle individuals who are supportive, respectful and loyal to me because they know how fortunate they are to be associated with me. Their laughter, delight and admiration flows around the room, like fuel in a tank and I want it all. How wonderful this power is, how it enables me to shine and dazzle so I receive even more of this precious resource. I nod slowly in recognition, almost able to see the pipelines which lead from each guest to me. I can picture the golden, sparkling fuel as it is pumped towards me, ready to feed those flames of power and then I see it.
Your pipeline is empty. Nothing flows along it. That is when I see that you are not laughing, you are not even smiling at my entertaining recollection. Instead, your stare ahead showing nothing as I delivered the flourish of the conclusion to my tale.
In that instant the flames become doused. They are snuffed out and suddenly the power that they created is starting to ebb and I can feel myself falling, sinking and then that sensation of unease begins to spread, from the centre of my chest and radiating outwards. You are sat there seemingly unmoved by my anecdote but not only that you have chosen to signal to me that it did not entertain you, but it meant nothing to you. I can feel the wound caused by your bored look. It pains me, evidence of the criticism which you have sent my way, unjustified and unwarranted.
Then it happens. I feel the ignition as the fury has a spark set to it. The rage begins to climb inside of me. I can feel its effect trying to twist my face into a snarl but I have to control it. Important members of my façade are here, it would not do to explode as I feel like I must do so and let you know what you have done to me.
I want to pick up this crystal glass and hurl it from my end of the table to your end so it strikes you on the forehead and knocks you from your seat. I want to smash a plate over your head but I must control these manifestations of the rage that is rising inside of me. I know I can. I have done it many times before. Thankfully nobody else has seen your treacherous behaviour and I manage to shift my blackening gaze from you to the lady to my left and she is continuing to smile. Yes, smile for me Helen, smile, yes, good.
“That was hilarious, I love your stories,” she remarks as she cuts at the meat on her plate.
I feel power returning from this fuel she has provided for me. Thank you Helen, thank you, I knew I could rely on you. Yes, and you as well Tom, good, sweet Tom who never fails to laugh at everything I say and is still doing so. I can feel the rage being beaten back by this additional fuel which continues to fuel. I blink twice, caught between the receding fury and the gathering power from the fuel.
I can sense the relief as the power begins to wash over me again as I avoid looking at you and keep drinking in the fuel from my friends, my good, kind and loyal friends. They know what to do. They would not betray me, not like you. I am beginning to wonder why I even bother with you now. It is not as if you contribute much over dinner anyway. I would have thought that you would have realised that it is your role to support me and allow me to shine, but you seem not to want to do that do you? I don’t know why. It is not as if I have not been kind to you, too kind maybe, perhaps you need reminding of why you exist? Yes, a prompt reminder is called for.
I would cut you down right now with a scything comment but that might fracture the façade. After all, nobody saw what you did and I am not so stupid as to do something which damages everybody’s favourable impression of me. No, my acidic tongue, although itching to lash out at you, for the fury is still there, albeit diminishing, will stay still in my mouth at this dinner table. I continue to drink in the fuel, feeling powerful, emboldened and engorged. I can tell Helen is interested in me and why not? Perhaps a promotion is on the cards for her, moving her from inner circle friends to intimate partner and installation as primary source. She would relish the opportunity. I have no doubt about that.
I am forced to put consideration of a personnel change to one side as I see you leave the table and head towards the kitchen. Here is my chance.
“Excuse me ladies and gentlemen,” I smile again as I stand. All eyes swing my way again, expectation dancing in them.
“I have some more wine for you.”
There is a cheer and the fuel flows further for me at this delighted reaction to my largesse. The flames are climbing now as I leave the table and the chatter of the guests behind and enter the kitchen where you are about to pick up the tiered cake that you have created for pudding. You whip around as soon as you sense my presence and your eyes are round as you have anticipated what is coming. Good, you recognise my greatness and it does not create defiance but rather uncertainty and fear. I can see your concern etched across your face.
“Do that again and you will regret it,” I say slowly, my eyes staring straight at yours, my gaze impenetrable and darkening. You shrink back as I loom over you. I can feel the flames rising as the negative fuel pumps from you, your fear and apprehension just what I wanted.
“Do what?” you reply.
“Don’t fucking lie to me,” I hiss and this makes you jump. The flames lick a little higher.
“I don’t know what you mean,” you protest. You are rooted to the spot but leaning away from me, your body language fuelling me as it displays your obvious unease.
“Yes you do, how dare you fucking roll your eyes at me,” I press.
“I didn’t.”
“Are you saying I am making it up?”
“No, no, I just I er, “you start to flounder, caught between wanting to cling to the truth, truth-seeker that you are and cautious of enraging me further.
“You just what? Spit it out,” I command.
“I er,”
I want to smile as I delight in your apprehension and the simple exhibition of my power over you. In an instant I have drawn my negative fuel from you and stunned you into confused silence. Power indeed.
“Well?” I urge. I am enjoying this. This is all good fuel.
“Nothing. I am sorry, I must have been distracted by something else, I have a lot on my mind with work, you know, I will push it to one side and enjoy the evening, I am sorry.”
Your apology strengthens the flames. I hold your gaze a little longer as your eyes flick from my left eye to my right eye as if you expect to find approval or forgiveness in them.
“You better had,” I say softly as I continue to look at you, “otherwise…….”
I extend the forefinger on my left hand and slowly and deliberately push it into the sponge of the cake, my digit driving into the yielding cake. Your eyes stare at the gesture as your mouth tightens in fear. I remove my finger leaving a deep and obvious indentation in the top of the cake as I lick my finger clean. I continue to stare at you and wait.
You nod.
There it is the compliance I sought.
The fuel flows and now I can turn and return to my waiting admirers having ensured you understand who is the master and who is the servant.
No raised voices. No smashed plates. No slamming doors.
Façade maintained, fuel obtained and control asserted.
This is what goes on below.
786 thoughts on “What Goes On Below”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
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N1 was always entertaining the crowd. He was able to “seduce” every person in his environment, from lowlands with a criminal past to intellectual and financial heights. Adored by women and children, imitated by men. Always a leader.
He seduced me by “seducing” the children… We were at the lake and at one point he left me alone. He started talking to a single woman with two children. These kids looked at him adoringly, stuck to him, played with them, and himself raged on the beach like a child.
He was very handsome, tall, wonderfully built, male and beautiful “radio and television” voice (similar to HG’s voice, but warmer timbre – they both laugh identically) – enchanted me at first sight. But it was then, on this beach, when he was playing with these children – that I fell in love with him without memory. I looked at this scene enchanted and this spell lasted for many years.
Over time, I became bored with his repeated anecdotes. Over time, the crowd of admirers around him began to wear me down. With time, the rush of impressions and stimuli began to tire me. With time, I began to recede into my solitude, even though we were still together.
I am still tired of seeing his daily journeys and adventures flooding social media and my senses.
Still the same. Going round and round all the time. Only landscapes and companions change.
—————–
I’m mostly codependent, but if I were in this woman’s shoes, the kind of behavior HG described (scaring) towards ME would not go unnoticed. I would certainly keep up appearances, the guests would not notice anything, I was trained to do so in my childhood.
The punishment would take place already during this meeting (maximum focus of my attention on someone else), or after the last guest has left (silence or a row), or perhaps it would be continued many weeks later. I hate when someone tries to scare me and puts pressure on me like that. I’m not afraid, you can kill me.
And I have never been, and never will be, a maid.
My mom serves men. I’ve been looking at it all my life. Beautiful, intelligent, resourceful, energetic, perfect organizer, good material status, own company. At home – a subordinate maid running around her master.
Never!
Joa, thank you for offering an answer to my question in regard to CoDs. Yes, I think it does depend on the experiences of the individual, and whether there is anything else to be considered ie relying on the parent since birth due to deafness. Interesting to read your view on CoDs compared to SEs. Yes, I’d agree on the basis of the “measurements” of the characteristics, maybe there could be some CoD characteristics that may be stronger than the same ones found in some SEs, maybe especially when it comes to the narcissistic traits coming to the fore?
My mother was married at 17. 34 years later she divorced my father and married a rich older man. He died of cancer and in 4 months moved in with her current obvious wealthy narc. She says she can’t be alone. Her brother calls her a chameleon. Maid fits:) what is awful is she was my idol… went back to school after raising 3 children ( I was 16), was number one in her college at accounting, got her first job in a bank since she felt ageism by major accounting firms then known as 8, now 6, got her CPA, securities cert, overcame mergers, became a successful private banker to mostly CEOs of bigpharm. Retired. When I made partner, she told me that the only way to be truly rich and successful was to marry well. I think she believes this. Women are generally doomed in her opinion … best be a maid. No thanks
Regarding the suggestion to make a chart evaluating our comments based on our schools and cadres, if this is really going to be done please do not include me. I would not want my views and opinions to be typecasted based on being a Geyser. Thank you.
MP, In my view, HG would not consider such a ‘chart’ because it would effectively defeat one of his objectives for the existence of KTN and his Legacy – empowering empaths.
The chart was a joke.
NA,
The idea of a voluntary list was discussed at one point on a different thread. More with the idea that it would be nice for newer arrivals to meet others in the same cadre and discuss how these same cadres manifest for them. The consensus in the end was not to do it if memory serves me correctly. It might also jeopardise the integrity of the EDC for others, this was flagged up too.
I am very interested in the EDC. Several others are the same. Whilst sharing my school and cadre once when asked I wouldn’t like to have it on record as such.
I think many empaths here can spot the cadres and schools lighting up occasionally. It’s not done as an analysis of every comment. Those that have been discussing it tend to look at each other and laugh about their own cadres showing. It’s certainly not being done in terms of analysing every empath on the blog. On certain threads cadres and schools can become more obvious. This was one and is why I think the original reference was made.
I know your list comment was in jest.
Yeah, no list, and as I said elsewhere, there is sooooo much more to take into account not the least of which being personality and life experience.
However, as pointed out on this thread, Geyser is much more than emotional outbursts. Much more. In the article, HG’s article explains love devotee trait in relation to that cadre among other things. I didn’t need HG to tell me I am an empath.
I’m still scarred from Denny’s death on Grey’s Anatomy. That, and when Meredith cut Christina’s wedding dress off.
Ohhhh BC30
Denny’s death. Izzy lying on the bed refusing to move. Chasing Cars playing in the background. (was talking to LET about that song on another thread). Then Alex comes in and scoops her up. I can’t watch it without crying. Incredibly incredibly sad. I’m not even Geyser. Brutal scene.
BC30
That’s a good example on why I don’t think our cadres make individuals exactly the same. I am not scarred by any movies that I have watched even though some movies still bothers me such a Philomena for example. But would I say that it scarred me? Nope. So we are still different.
TS, That scene hurt me so, so much. I stopped watching the show for a long while.
BC30,
Yeah, Denny was the toughest loss, no contest.
Never ever watch Seven Pounds. The narc recommended that. Don’t think I stopped crying for a week! He did that on purpose.
I think they meant a chart about which type of empaths different types of narcissists prefer, not some weird, creepy chart about what individual’s have shared about themselves.
But one can’t control people, no matter how much narcissists believe it’s possible. As long as HG lets it through, one can share their opinion about whatever they wish to see or what they don’t wish to see.
But you know what they say about “If wishes were fishes…”
Not today, Satan. Not today.
BC30, you have a way with words……. “not some weird, creepy chart” (laughing).
Well said = your second paragraph.
Laughing – the rest of your comment. Thank you for that 🙂
Relax. No one is trying to control anyone regarding this topic. I was just opting out “if this is really going to be done”. I never said no one can do it. I was just asking to not be included which is not an unreasonable request.
BC30, exactly regarding the chart. Mine would be used only as a visual tool to help me see those connections since visuals are very helpful for my learning. I would not have even thought of trying to put it anywhere publicly.
I understand AV. An explanation would have sufficed. Not sure why there was a need to make a comparison between me opting out of what makes me uncomfortable and Taylor Swift’s entitled remark that has a totally different context and circumstance. And also the reference on narcissists trying to control other people’s words. I was simply asserting some boundary and not stopping anyone from doing it themselves. You can even look at my comment to Kiki on how I can see how it can be fun for others. The personal attack was not necessary nor kind. The only opinion I care about regarding me being NPD or not is HG’s and he has said here in the blog aside from my ED result that I’m not a narcissist.
Just to clarify AV, my comment was a reaction to BS30’s remarks and not yours.
He might allow people to do what they want as he gives us a lot of freedom here. But for me personally, I agree with you that it isn’t empowering so I wanted to be clear that I don’t want to be included and I would prefer that when I interact here they wouldn’t see me as a Geyser and read my comments as just being from a Geyser as there seems to be an impression that Geysers are ruled by ET or emotions and for me personally I have been very practical, thoughtful and logical in most of my important life choices. But I am indeed a Geyser for being a huge love devotee and having very intense emotions. But it doesn’t dictate everything about how I see things or react or the comments I make. There are many factors in each of us individuals that affect our perspectives and how we react. Our current situations also affect many things such as personal problems and even health. So I think that these are best used for ourselves and not for evaluating other’s reactions and perspectives. Just my opinion.
MP, thank you for your response. We all communicate, or, subscribe on this blog because we have similar ‘reasons’ for being here = as a result of the affects of narcissism, no matter what we as individuals are ‘composed’ of (ie any disabilities, other ‘conditions’ etc – be it physical, emotional, or neurological).
RE: you saying “There are many factors in each of us individuals that affect our perspectives and how we react. Our current situations also affect many things such as personal problems and even health” – absolutely.
In my view,
KTN is not just about educating people about narcissism / learning from each other’s experiences / a space to let our hair down – have a laugh / managing our addiction to narcissism. I also view it as a place where people from all kinds of background (environments, cultures) with different personalities, different neurological ‘approaches’ (ie the human psyche) can communicate their perspective on narcissism’s affects (including those of societal / community = perceptions of others around you, me, etc) on themselves as individuals. KTN offers this ‘information’ to others, including those involved in human & environmental aspects of science, medical professionals as well as those in politics / Law. One main aspect, for me is that I was able to ‘see’ myself. For many, many years, I questioned the reasoning for my ‘existence’ on this planet – that is my brain-wiring, and probably partly narcissism-influence related. I no longer ‘question’ myself as much as I used to, I have no need to.
Hi Asp Emp, I have also “…questioned the reasoning for my ‘existence’ on this planet…” as I have mentioned a while back on another thread. And now the same result as you also, not as much. I think it is the leftovers of the trauma and false narrative left in my mind by my narc “parents”. Though I still have a hard time getting my head around why parents would want to do this to their children, it is not difficult to accept the fact that they did do it. And I suppose I do understand that it’s not a matter of them wanting to do so but a matter that they had needs that preempted my and my siblings needs, in their minds, needs that they had no control over. And I’m left with the dregs of them meeting those needs at my expense. Being here I also do not question my own existence as much but I have come to believe that it’s often a sad thing that narcs have children.
AV, thank you for sharing your thoughts on ‘reasoning for existence on this planet’. It’s always a negative when narcissists have children because the damage for those children start as soon as they are born, unless the children are ‘removed’ from the narcissist(s).
Hi Asp Emp,
It’s a quandary, I am glad you and I and the other ACONs are here, but I wish we could’ve had non-narc parents. And I wouldn’t have my children had my ex not have had children, so it was a positive that he did, as far as I’m concerned. But narc parents do hurt us and do a lot of damage to their children also.
Thank you Asp Emp. I agree with you and I’m happy for you that you have found contentment and acceptance with who you are and have not been questioning yourself anymore. Narc abuse does get us questioning ourselves a lot and it is a big step in healing to be able to reject that unhealthy self questioning habits that we acquired.
Thank you for your response, MP. Good to read what you say here 🙂
MP, I don’t see you as a Geyser either. I see you as MP. I do also want to mention, that Geyser is my favorite. Its the one part of my empathic makeup that I feel is all about me. Its how I release. its how I feel things. I absolutely love it.
Thank you Leigh, you’re very kind. 💕
Hi Leigh:
I love the Geyser in me too! It’s my passion and my emotions!!
I love feeling it all and allowing it to flow and be expressed. I love the depth of how I can feel it, and the intensity in which I can express it. It’s very contradictory to my Carrier side.
Also, I tend to talk with my hands. You?
NJfilly, I talk with my hands and my whole body, lol. I’m very theatrical and over the top. I can’t help myself sometimes. Its very contradictory to my Carrier side too. I can be very passionate about things but I’m not a love devotee. The passion is often towards things I believe in, not love. Maybe someday, I’ll find someone I can love and be passionate with.
Leigh:
Interesting. I’m not a love devotee either. When I wrote passion I meant toward things I believe in, hobbies I love, or deep conversations. (but also passionate sexual encounters!)
Honestly, I don’t understand how it’s possible to talk without using your hands! Yes, I use my whole body too!! I can be very expressive!
I want to be with somebody who can provoke my passions in all ways.
I agree!
Leigh, your comment sent shivers down my back. The reason you love it, it’s all about you, it’s how you feel things, it’s how you release, these are the reasons I don’t love it! I find that absolutely interesting. For me, still, these things are embarrassing and bothersome. Is it my heavier dose of Savior? Are Saviors more prim and proper? Does Savior reject allowing it to be all about me? Or is it that I was not allowed these as a child so I feel tremendously uncomfortable allowing them out now? A combination probably. And I do have a much smaller dose, so that is likely part of it also. Thank you for sharing that, it is good food for thought.
AV, I don’t know why, but I feel this great need to be a little selfish right now. I really feel the need to think about me and the Geyser in me, helps me do that.
That makes sense. I think what you’re contemplating and planning is going to take some selfishness so put that Geyser to good use! You’ve earned it!
Leigh,
Indulge me please, but I want to point out again that the presentation of any of HG’s school/cadre classifications is highly unique to the individual and affected greatly by environment, life experiences, psychological/psychiatric presentations, and the type of narcissist the empath is engaging with. I certainly acted differently toward UMR and MMR.
“This type of empathic tendency is marked by high energy levels. One might even go so far as to say that shades of hyper activity…” Nope, this is just not me.
“If they are denigrated, the tears will not flow but they will cascade along with that trembling bottom lip…” > I will throat punch you while crying.
“They are the greatest love devotees of all empaths, they truly believe that with love everything can be solved.” > I still believe this, I just didn’t know it would be exploited.
“No matter how many times they are let down, hurt, cheated on and so forth, they will soon bounce back.” > Fuck that noise. You cheat on me once, and I’m out. But, in order for me to leave/escape, I have to know. I have and will hire a private investigator.
Anyhow, my whole point is that we are all very unique and only exhibit some of the many traits of any given school/cadre.
BTW I do talk with my hands. 😉Be selfish and take care of yourself ❤️
BC30, you say, “I certainly acted differently toward UMR and MMR.” Me too! I definitely acted differently towards my husband and workplace narc.
High energy and hyperactive. That’s a check for me.
No tears from being denigrate. Another check for me.
No matter how many times I’m let down, I bounce back. Yep!
Love devotee and believes that love can solve everything. Not me at all. I don’t fall for love bombing. It seems fake to me. I do believe that children need to be shown love.
One last thing, the geyser helps me to release.
Thank you for sharing this BC30. It reminded of the many facets of the geyser.
Yup! And I got my dad’s ED. It’s what I expected.
BC30, I’m glad you got the results you were expecting. Its nice to see that there really is a chance for empaths to find each other and be at peace with one another. You and your parents story inspires me and gives me hope. Thank you for sharing it.
To be sure, my parents separated over 25 years, and my dad is a DE. They’re not divorced for legal reasons, but it was contentious. I didn’t speak to my dad for several years (SE). Despite all the rancor they are civil for the rest of the family.
So, your parents aren’t together? I just assumed they were still together. I thought they were a real life love story.
BC30, more word parsing, I love it! Going to parse a couple of articles right now, thank you for the idea!
I don’t know of a chart. But I am waiting in more information on Contagian. It fits like a glove as does Carrier. I have seen leading “narc” experts say Empaths don’t exist. I have read about science and contagion empathy. To thy own self be true. So important to love and accept yourself and validate and accept others where ever placed chart or no chart. HG is brilliant. Narcs have empathy. Those with empathy differ in how they experience it. HG will someday shed light on this more specifically. I am eager to hear his insight. I think HG gives a spectrum of empathy. You are in the total as am I but our specific traits he points out. Same family and same love:)
Correction: narcs have no emotional empathy:)
Why would anyone bother making a chart on Empath responses ?
I couldn’t see any use in it whatsoever and in my view would be extremely self indulgent , this blog is called knowing the narcissist not knowing the Empath .
If we need to plot analyse and evaluate comments from empaths , Lord help us we are moving from one problem ( narcissist) to another .
Kiki
I for one am here to learn how to cope with my ET , not add to it .
I mean this kindly but honestly our cadre school of Empath is no one’s business but our own .
I can only speak for myself ( and this may sound narcissistic ) but Iam not interested in posters cadres / schools etc as none of my business.I’m interested in learning how to navigate out of my ET and longings for ex Narc .I need this site to give me a kick of logic and reality everyday.
I was under the impression it was not to be discussed here.
Maybe I’m incorrect.
Kiki ❤️
My impression is HG won’t reveal it, but readers can, if they wish. This has occasionally led readers to ask HG for back-up during an argument about who’s-the-narc.
Kiki ,
I actually learned a lot here about being an Empath I don’t go around and say hi I am an Empath. The one thing that I learned the most is that I am addicted to Narcissists. You don’t need to share your ED details with anyone that is obviously your business. Coping with ET is so hard but we can try and manage it .
Hello Kiki, I view my ED results the same way as you. Not something that defines me but something that I use as a tool to help me gauge my behaviors and choices etc. It doesn’t mean it defines every aspect of my behavior or points of view or reactions. But I can see how others are having fun about it. I just wanted to opt out as I don’t see it being helpful to me. ❤️
“Our cadre/school of empath is no one’s business but our own.”
I agree exactly.
Hi Kiki, If I may, for me, I like to share my experiences and my empathic makeup because I think it could help others who are in the same situation. If someone like us, is out there reading this blog, now they know they aren’t alone. Then they may decide to stay and learn and eventually be free from the narcissist in their lives.
On the flip side, I like to see other’s empathic makeup because often times when I see it in someone else, the lightbulb will go on and then I can see it in myself. As for lowering our ET, I think understanding our empathic makeup will help us lower or ET. For instance, I’m not a love devotee, so the love bombing does not work on me. It doesn’t heighten my ET, if anything, it lowers it. Love bombing makes me think, “something ain’t right, here.” On the other hand, I’m a caregiver and if I see someone in need, that heightens my ET and fall for it every time.
You are 100% correct that Its your right not to share. I just wanted to give a differing opinion and wanted you to see that sharing isn’t necessarily self indulgent.
MP, I have been thinking of and even begun writing out the different types of empaths and narcissists as outlined in HG’s books regarding these for an eventual personal use chart. They would only be for my benefit for helping me to retain differences and similarities and would not include individuals. I am curious about some things around the schools/cadres and have hoped that at some point HG would expand on certain things, and I do enjoy the conversations around the schools and cadres a lot, for learning. I do not think of you as Geyser, you are MP.
Hi AV, have you seen HG’s Acornyms (located under ‘Formal Info’)? I found that really useful 🙂
Yes but not with this in mind, I’ll take another look, thanks!
Thank you AV. 🦋
This made me giggle because it reminded me of the famous line, “I would very much like to be excluded from this narrative.” LOL (but duly noted).
It may remind you but it’s not the same.
Not sure why you have to reference Taylor Swift or narcissists trying to control someone else’s words just because I didn’t want to be analyzed based on my empathic school/cadre. Instead of just simply saying “duly noted” you have to make a passive aggressive remark. If you think everyone always has to agree with you then you have some growing up to do.
MP, your paranoia is surfacing again. I do not believe BC30´s remark was aimed at you.
Anyway, I don’t want this to blow up. You’re entitled to your opinion about me. I was just simply exercising what I thought was my right to say No. if that makes you think I am like Taylor Swift who we all know is a narcissist then you are entitled to your own truth. I’m still glad that I said no to what I thought would make me uncomfortable.
MP:
You have company. If I get my EDC done, I may not want to discuss results either. If I turn out to be an empath at all, it may not be in one of the Kewler-sounding categories.
Thank you for understanding Violetta. ❤️❤️❤️
Same here, if I turn out to be an Empath all, which I highly suspect since I constantly ask and ponder how everyone in the room is feeling and their lifestories, Saviour and Contagion are probably floating about in the pond somewhere.
TS
Your comment re: remaining Tudor minutes gave me a chuckle.
HG
Would you be willing to give us a glimpse by way of examples into of the various types of Tudor minutes requests you received?
Reading poetry or from a novel, playing the piano, recording a roast of their particular narcissist, telling a story, reading a piece of writing the purchaser has written, singing a song, providing a sexual tale, telling someone what I have been doing that day, what spending time with me would be like – those are just a few.
HG
Re; Tudor minutes
I had wondered about creativity in the requests. Thank you for obliging.
I’ve thought a couple of times while taking a shower that HG would make the sentence “paraben-free” sound sexy.
Sweetest Perfection, especially if you heard it while in your shower! Yum!
Haha AV, are you imagining me in the shower???
Hahaha, no! I was imaging anyone, since we’re all faceless, hearing HG speak to us while we’re in the shower! Would certainly liven my showers up! The yum was for NA’s “chocolate tonsils”!
“Reading poetry or from a novel”
I’d happily listen to you reading your grocery list.
Violetta, LOL……
Most excellent! I’m glad to see there is a variety these days.
BC30, He’ll sing!! Yay!!
Surprising, right?! But HG indulges my morbid fascinations, which is more than good enough for me. ⚰️
TS, *whispering*…there’s nothing on there about “breathing”…:(
AV,
*whispering* “We’ll get NA to ask him the same question again in a few weeks.” 😉
Hahahaha!!! Love it!! Yes, we will!!
TS, or we’ll try anyway. 🙂
“Unaware Mid Range Narcs often declare themselves as Super Empaths”
I’ve noticed this wishful thinking, HG. Some of us ACONs have this about our extremely energy consuming Middle Mid Type B mother, the type who is often mistaken for borderline.
Since I had met Super empaths in my childhood/teenages, I kind of assumed that my mother was one of them. “Yes, she is extremely grumpy on the outside, but probably very just and fair on the inside”. You know,like some heros we often read about in articles and books and fairy tales.
Then there were all these tiresome difference, I was never enough, goalposts constantly moved, yelling… and, well, lots of daily abuse towards my father and myself, silent treatments, calling our employers, etc. I remember thinking that “Fair-on-the-inside people can be a piece of work”. It took me years and years to realize that something was really off with her.
Mids think they are super empaths, yes.
Luckily 2 or 3 SE friends are still around.
Narcissists do a lot of great things. They could even be very proactive, more proactive than empaths when it comes to being out there helping people or doing good deeds. But they’re still narcissists in the core so they assert superiority and control.
There was this school board member here and she was a teacher when my husband was a school board member. He didn’t care for her because it’s her way or the highway and she was a bully she bullies for her cause which is to help teachers. My husband retired when his youngest graduated but this teacher now got elected and last election she was so disrespectful to the parents who didn’t agree with her that there was even a thread of parents who felt she was dismissive and disrespectful. Then a parent criticized those people who criticized this school board member because she felt that they were smearing her and they are the bullies. Then another parent commented about how this lady went to their house regularly when this lady was her son’s teacher and her son got sick to teach her son in their home. It was like she was describing a saint. So the people who criticized this woman was criticized and even called names by people who she helped and liked her. Funny thing this woman was caught trespassing a former teacher’s house to vandalize this former teacher’s poster supporting her opponent and so she had to apologize she lost the election because it was so stupid what she did. Trespassing someone’s yard to vandalize their poster supporting your opponent is a clear lack of boundary and high entitlement. I personally think that she’s a narcissist or highly narcissistic but there’s no denying that she has helped a lot of people. But I bet she would believe that she’s a Super Empath too.
HG,
I think you need to ‘redact’ a little more prolifically. You have done it to me before I can even get the words out, yet certain things have been said without you using your ‘redacting pen’. When you made your orders of non-interaction the orders covered TWO people – me AND the other person.
You really don’t like empaths who talk back much do you? You are much more forgiving when it comes to the ‘narcissistic perspective’.
WN,
Here you go again telling me how to run my blog.
Yet again you have failed to read what I explained to you previously with regard to the rules and the nature of exchanges. I know it is not what you want to read, but that is how it is and no matter how many times you attempt to ignore it, it is the way the blog operates.
If you do not like it, go elsewhere, but you do not.
I have no issue with empaths “who talk back much”, because I allow people to express their views (something you acknowledge yourself when you contradicted yourself in criticising me) and where necessary I correct an inaccuracy. I simply take issue with an individual who repeatedly fails to see how they behave, despite it being repeatedly pointed out to them.
Your insinuation about the narcissistic perspective is risible.
HG: is your “okey cokey” the cockney version, with the dropping of the initial ‘h’ at ‘hokey’?
Just wondering…
Could be.
Holy Heyzeus!
Ok well, as sure as death & taxes , I guess.
I don’t know if anyone remembers me. (Got distracted from KTN last year -Autistic teen w mental health issues etc)
Add Functional Neurological Disorder & ADHD to the list. He’s heading into a residential home for young men w special needs x co morbid diagnosis. He’s doing so much better .
I had to go to an abuse shelter a couple months ago- 1.5 years of caring for son in high crisis, I started to have some PTSD symptoms. Except not POST.
Most of my few personal belongings have been smashed . I lost my health care job due to fatigue.
With him finally getting a proper diagnosis , I set up a crack team of medical & special needs supports for him and got them all in touch w each other. Did it all while living w his father, my ex- bc kid needed 24/7 crisis care.
For a fucking year & a half.
Also managed to be sick for A MONTH w a virus that attacked my lungs and I was in hospital twice. Never so sick in my life. The irony is I tested negative for Covid 😆 I think I had a shitty test and want to get tested for antibodies now.
Anyhow. I knocked one of the four horsemen of my personal apocalypse off his horse , and rode it straight back into hell, saved my son, and came out 1.5 years later , with my hair still smoking and a pet dragon.
I was surprised to find out there was still a pandemic.
With the kid in safe care, I spent 2 months in a luxury shelter here on my island. The all female staff mothered me through the trauma ,2 weeks of crusts then 7 weeks of crying & I found my footing.
I have now rented a lovely room in a lovely family home back on my lovely island. Kid is doing so much better. I’m a new empty nester now, and it’s bittersweet . Finally I can rest.
All that being said , this thread was great reading.
I just want to apologize to anyone I ever had the hubris to deem a narcissist on this forum, and also anyone I argued like an idiot with about this that or the other stupid pointless bullshit. I really got caught up in my own narcissistic traits , a few times. It’s hard to believe , now.
HG, I REALLY liked the Order of non whatever 😂
Also is MP . & MommyPino the same person?
What’s an ACON?
I’ve lost the plot a bit.
I’ll be changing my handle soon . Not sure to what.
Seriously , check out the show “FLACK”- I think it could be another BLL
EDIT: ,2 weeks of CRISIS^*
Ps..
The FUCK is the okey cokey?!
Is it like the hokey pokey?
I just found my new handle.
Should remind me to keep my mind right on here
“
You put your left arm in
Your left arm out
In, out, in, out
You shake it all about
You do the hokey cokey
And you turn around
That’s what it’s all about
Woah, the hokey cokey
Woah, the hokey cokey
Woah, the hokey cokey
Knees bent
Arms stretched
Ra-ra-ra”
Laughing…..
Hey Woke,
I remember you, don’t think I’d been here too long when you were commenting regularly. Really sorry to hear about how difficult things have been for you. Hopefully things with your son continue to improve and you get a well deserved rest.
It will likely be a lifelong challenge , but I’m in.
The kid is aging me rapidly but my sense of humour is in tact. So is my “LT”
Thank you.
Okey Wokey,
Yes, it sounds like it will be an ongoing thing from what you said. Something that will need constant management and as time goes by you both will learn more about what works best.
My son started with psoriasis around 18 months ago. It appeared on his forehead over night and spread rapidly on to his neck, patches on his face etc. Not as severe as your situation I know, but it broke my heart. He appeared calm, handled the comments in school, but underneath I knew he was scared that he would be covered in patches.
Doctor was useless, specialist was useless. I researched, spoke to people, got in touch with my auntie who has had it all her life, tested cremes, washes, shampoos on myself to check they wouldn’t burn etc. That’s what mum’s do. I found a magical combination of shampoo, face wash and prescription creme ( we use it only occasionally now) that worked to keep things under control. Not perfect, but under control. He trusted me to find the answer and I did. He never lost faith in me. We know our kids, we can find what works because we keep trying, searching and switching until we do.
You will find a regime that works best to manage things, it won’t be perfect maybe, but it will get easier. Im glad your ET is nicely under control. That’s not easy under stress. You’re over the worst now, onwards and upwards!
My father has psoriasis since a kid , same as your kid, all over his body.
He’s used cortisone creams / oils (which left his skin paper thin 🤷♀️) and tar shampoo .
I was lucky I only got it on my scalp a bit, ( on my knees as a kid, ) …but now any scar has the risk of turning into an affected area.
No more piercings for me lol – just in case !
Watching our kids suffering pure Hell. My hope goes to you and your son
Okey Wokey,
Yeah, some of the creams can be so harmful long term. The specialist prescribed the tar shampoo for my son. You know what worked for him in the end? Aveda invati shampoo! Mad isn’t it? Aveda products suit me too, the cream I mix myself and is based on several ingredients in a cream that works for my aunt.
All to say, specialists don’t know everything. They diagnose and go with what they were taught. It can be a sausage factory approach. Sometimes your own research and delving into your own family history can tell you more. The strangest things can make big differences in conjunction with what specialists suggest. (great that the specialists are talking to each other).
Thank you for your good wishes, the same to you Woke.
Holy cow, WokeAF
You pulled through a lot for your son and yourself. A lifetime of work. ❤️
And a lifetime to go
But what else matters ? 😊
I’m resting huge.
Thank you for your kindness.
Autism and ANYTHING else is so Hard !! Hope things will continue on an upswing for you both <3
Im rooting for you xo !
WA, thank you for sharing. You obviously have been through a lot. It is a really good comment.
ACON = adult child of narcissist.
It is good that so many areas of your difficulties have been managed to the point where you can start to move forward for yourself. Hope the path forward is a lot easier than the one you have been on.
Yes it’s time to move into Woke 2.0
You grow through trauma .
(Unless you disassociate to the point of having a false self take over bc it’s just.too.painful to exist anymore.
Which I now quite understand, sympathize and empathize , and have zero resentment at. No wonder. NO WONDER. I’m an ADULT and I started to have PTSD watching my child suffer , unable to end the pain. Imagine being a child with parents that don’t love you and abuse you .
I now commend narcissists (BPD, codep, etc) for just continuing to exist and not offing themselves.)
Thank you for the ACON meaning.
And your altruism .
OW, interesting but not surprising to read “Unless you disassociate to the point of having a false self take over bc it’s just.too.painful to exist anymore” – I have experienced that myself – but never recognised it as the way you describe it as above until I came to KTN blog to learn about ‘me’ as well as narcissism. As for the rest of your comment – totally understandable and I respect you for stating that out loud. It’s more about learning to understand the addiction to narcissism rather than annihilate them for having the ‘condition’. Yet, my past narcissists, I can’t because of the abuse from them to me. It’s about moving forward with the new knowledge & understanding.
You are very welcome. You did well for yourself & your son 🙂
Well NPD is everywhere, might as well understand what it is . It’s a mental illness. Compassion but ——> over there.
Except for the ones already grandfathered in. 😆
WTW, your first sentence – exactly. We have no option really. We can either co-habit the earth with them or singularly buy a farm in the middle of nowhere and not bother mixing with humankind again or forever be controlled by our addiction to narcissism and never have a life of what we can call as ‘individuals in our own right’.
Compassion……. er, well, that’s ‘conditional’ 😉
The ones grandfathered in can grandfather their way out via the crematorium.
Hello WAF
Good to see you back!
Oh my god, that’s a lot to go through….
Did you have to quit your studies as well?
I hope your recovery goes onwards and upwards!
Hugs, x
School is paused- but learning Defin is not
🙏
Hi WokeAF, welcome back!
ACON is Adult Child Of Narcissist.
Yes, MP & MommyPino is the same person.
There’s a lot of newbies here but many oldies but goodies are still here as well. I remember you but I’m not sure if you remember me. I didn’t comment much when I first came to the blog.
You’ve had quite a year and a half. I can understand the need to go back to the devil in order to care for your son. I’m glad to hear your son is getting the help he needs now. I’m also glad to hear that you can finally rest.
Oh , I went through Hell alright
but buddy was right- all the Devils are Here
Hi Woke,
Wow, that serious series of misfortunate events – amazing that you’ve come through all that with such positivity in the end.
I had asked, at times when you had popped in, about your schooling…but after reading that list, I think I probably know the answer. You had way too much on your hands.
It’s nice to see you back!
WC
Yeah no school . I did continue to study my fields of interest independently. Obv I had to expand LOL. Bc FND was defin not on my list.
I intend to enroll online and take philosophy actually just for the fuck of it . I’ve considered actually moving on campus just to be the cougar and have fun but a-I’m a sober person b-I’m in my Jammies by 7 so …I’m afraid I missed that window
I will not be returning to healthcare full time or even to the rat race full time as I’ve decided to spend the 2nd half (ok the last 1/3rd) of my life doing whatever the fuck I please and living simply. It’s not that hard to keep ONE body alive, as ive discovered. Not even expensive either. Depending on your priorities.
(Mine sure got put in place.)
Being a good enough mother to my boy may well be a lifetime challenge but I feel ok with that.
Thank you – and everyone else altruistic enough to comment -, it’s nice to be treated kindly , & it feels good to feel supported.
Woke,
“I intend to enroll online and take philosophy actually just for the fuck of it . I’ve considered actually moving on campus just to be the cougar”
Both those options sound kinda fun.
I understand about reorienting your priorities.
It sounds like you’re choosing some ways to be kind and gentle to yourself…deservedly so.
WAF:
Glad to see you’re not only back but doing better. Gutenberg and Harvard classics have a lot of Great Books (official designation) on line for free. If you don’t want to use up your plan by reading on line, sometimes you can download a file, or highlight the whole thing, paste it into a word document & save on a flash drive. I sometimes used to print out double-sided copies at F.U., punch holes in them, and put them into a binder so I could get away from the screen glare and read them like real books.
Some sites, like Internet Archive, also have a lot of obscure treasures, but they’re not always as easy to copy. Someone scanned the moral tales for children edited by the clergyman who ran the school that killed off two Bronte sisters and traumatized the rest (filleted as “Lowood” in Jane Eyre), and I’m doing screen captures of two facing pages at a time, then cropping the margins and expanding the text. Honestly, Charlotte was too kind to him.
I’m sure you can find all sorts of philosophy or theology texts, not just literature, if you want to do some independent reading or find an obscure source.
Hi Woke
Glad to hear that in the face of all that that your son is doing better. I’m sure that will expedite your own recovery. Better days ahead.
Well NA, you know me .
Woke
Atta girl. Can’t get much out of life locked in full fetal.
Hello WokeAF,
Yes that’s me. I just thought two letters might be easier. I also didn’t think MommyPino is a good sounding name. I wasn’t that creative. I just thought that I’m a mom which makes me the happiest and I am a Filipino always in my heart no matter where I live.
I’m glad to see you doing great. And apologies have been accepted a long time ago. I understand and I have been argumentative too. ❤️ I’m far from perfect.
I also want to add that I’m glad your son is doing well. The residential home for special needs will hopefully be good for him. From what I have been hearing it is really good in most cases because it gives them companionship and a sense of independence because they don’t live with their parents. I have a special needs son so it was one of the options we have looked at. I’m sorry you went through a lot but I’m so glad you got a lot of support and are doing well now. PTSD is super hard when it attacks. I’m so sorry you have gone through so much. So glad you have stayed positive through it all.
I remember you too, WokeAF. I’m really sorry you have had such a tough time, but I’m glad your son is doing much better now x
I didn’t realise MP and MommyPino were the same person either! 😂
Woke my best has a high functioning 17 year old in residential now. I wish she would join a support group as this stay. It’s been hell as her teen won’t go to school, cuts, attacks physically and verbally and constant suicide ideation and attempts. Nothing seems to help. I feel time… but anyway words of advice? Her ex is a narc. Doesn’t care. At all. Alone. I give her all the support I can but no solutions.
Why can’t people try and get along with one another here on the blog? I am sure each and everyone one of you have been through some sort of Narcissistic abuse. Let us try and be there there for each other. Peace
Eternity,
Your question, “Why can’t people try and get along with one another here on the blog?” made me smile. It sounds innocent and charming. I bet human beings have been asking themselves that question since the dawn of time in some shape or form.
The answer . . . I guess it’s because some humans aren’t endowed with mirror neurons or sensitivity (except when it comes to their own ego) and can only feel a limited amount of emotion. They survive on fuel and character traits and provoking and using other people sooo. . .
It’s all down to those pesky perspectives . . .
Seriously though, there’s a good video HG has done called ‘The Narcissist’s Lens’, in case you haven’t seen it already 🙂
Hi Wiser own,
I will definitely check out HG’s video. Thanks for your input 👍
You’re welcome Eternity 🙂
I also think that life is hard. The harder as we get older. I don’t know if it’s the times or my age. There are certainly things about the times ( climate change, economic inequality growth, pandemics, inflation) that make it harder. But I feel there is such anger and people can’t cope. It pours forth unto others. Myself, I am a savior and contagion, I retreat at times to nature and surround myself with my kind tribe. And I hold my sword high and try to live life with compassion, kindness and integrity. It’s needed. I remind myself that people are in pain, just struggling to cope.
Pride , superiority, emotional thinking .
leading to tearing bits out of each other bc we hide under our special cadre of the label of Empath all the while engaging in one upmanship circle jerks, mindless sycophants empathically climbing over each other’s torn bruised online bodies to outquote each other and feel smugly satisfied we know something enough to defend it without any actual hard evidence except it resonates with our own opinion.
This isn’t a support forum , it’s a place to showboat.
And play Us Vs Them, and get real , REAL good at it.
But it’s tasty, right? Lol But don’t mistake it for more than entertainment.
If you present your RL story you might get an ounce of support and comradery as I have.
Or you might get accused of victim mentality or superiority and eaten for breakfast.
It’s a gamble 😆 May the Odds Be Ever in Your Flavour
Get it – breakfast – flavour
Whatever you like WokeAF, I think I will pass I I can spend the afternoon at my relatives house if I need all of that.
I came here to learn about Narcissism and have had several Narcissist’s in my life and trust me that was more than a gamble.
Take care xoxo
Wow Eternity, I did not expect that from you! I am so impressed, you have the assertiveness I am trying to learn! Yet you are so sweet at the same time! It’s the perfect combination. You said that so well. Thank you for the example and for your clear minded thoughts. Did you have to overcome fear to be assertive like that? How did you do it? How long have you been here? Did you learn this here or have you always been so strong? Please forgive all the questions, I am just so curious, this is exactly what I’ve been working on recently! Thank you again!
A Victor,
Sometimes except the unexpected. Thank you so much 💓.I have always had it in me and I do stick up for myself if you don’t no one will. I fight my own battles. You are definitely learning A Victor, and you are strong. I don’t really have fear except for a horror movies,and snakes ha ha. I can be blunt with people without hurting anyone’s feelings. I definitely have learned a lot here on KTN., but life makes you strong as the years go by. Life lessons. Don’t ever ever I repeat let anyone step all over and control you there are choices and we need to make them for the best . We only live once .
I have been here about 2 years.
Now being on my own I has searched deep inside myself and found that I have qualities I never thought I had and they are coming out stronger. I love to sing!
You can ask me whatever you like Nothing wrong about being curious. I am curious all the time. Let’s go bungee jumping! I need someone that will go with me. Ha ha
You are welcome. I always like talking to you. You are so sweet.
Eternity, thank you for this very straightforward and uplifting comment. This one is going into my ‘Encouragement File’.
I want to sing also but I am best only doing so in the shower, for the sake of others. But, I also have some things being discovered and it is exciting! I wish I would want to go bungee jumping but I am terrified of heights so that would be a hard no. I wish we could have coffee though! 🙂
A Victor, you are very encouraging to me I appreciate it.
Actually singing in the shower is very good as it opens up your lungs.
I also am terrified of heights but I have learn to overcome it.
I would love to have coffee with you that would be so nice!
Your comment made me smile Eternity. I will keep singing. In the shower! <3
A Victor,
Keep singing and smiling A Victor it is good for the mind and soul. Laughing is good too! We need to be positive.
Ah Eternity, laughter will not leave me again, life is too short to live it without that!
Now that is the spirit A Victor. More good days ahead. Don’t let anyone put you down ever.
OkeyWokey, your comment, though likely accurate, makes me very sad. I just commented earlier today about getting the support I have needed for this journey here. And also how that support has shown me what I should likely expect/experience with a future partner. Thank you for your comment, it is a good warning to remember that were area all really strangers and we would do well to remember that.
Dear A V,
Please don’t be sad! Yes we are all strangers here but I guarantee you that most of the people on here want to help. Most of us have been where you are, some more than others. You will always find someone on here that will reach out to help you if you need it. I was surprised to wake up this morning to the back and forth confrontation still going on. I thought it had been settled by HG yesterday and today we could all move on to something else?! Apparently that’s not going to happen any time soon. Try to see this as another learning experience that HG and the blog provides. Emotions run high, people’s feelings get hurt and wham! Usually HG can bring it back under control and lower the ET, apparently this time it’s not working so well.
What I find interesting is how far this has come from the start of this thread. Can you remember ( without going back and reading) how it started? I can’t! I guess what I’m trying to say is you are safe here. When push comes to shove this is HGs blog and if he sees a need to shut something or someone down he will! One day you will find that assertiveness that you desire, I believe you will be surprised to find it had been there all along. That’s one of the best things about this special place, it gives you your voice back. Take care sweet A V. Xx
FM1T,
About where the thread began. Mmm, yeah, that might have been me!
A truly honest and lovely comment to AV. It made me smile. Xx
Great comment, FM1T.
FM1T, thank you, yes, honestly I have seriously considered leaving over some of this, but I don’t have any place else to go to do this work. And I want so badly to be healthy that I can’t just quit. What you say has been my experience, very supportive here. I don’t know histories with people and that does seem to play into some of this a lot.
I don’t remember how it started. Just like I can’t remember how most negative things start, fights with my ex or abuse from my mother. I have just begun looking back at the fights with my ex, with new knowledge, and of the ones I can go back to, I see them very differently now. Anyway, this is not that, thank God. I feel like I am in a position to get my voice for the first time ever, it is exciting and scary at the same time. I will keep that as a goal. Thank you again.
You’re welcome A V.
You should always remember if there is something on here that upsets you or causes you to feel as though you want to leave this place, simply stop reading and move on to the next post.
There is no place out there filled with the knowledge that this place has, and there is no one else in the world like HG! Keep your eyes set on your goals sweet A V, you got this! 💞xx
FM1T, yes, thank you, that is my plan going forward. It is sad to me that it helps me to read that, I do seek permission in some ways apparently. Once when I was a young mother, there was a neighbor and while he and I were chatting, a topic came up to which he replied with absolute decisiveness, “Not with my kids, no way, I’d shut that right down.” I was caught off guard and more than a little impressed by someone seeing the situation and responding in such a straightforward manner. I still struggle with this, seeing the situation and then, even when I do, responding in such a solid way, there’s always an element of hesitation, what if I’m wrong. I hope to get past that but for now, here, I do appreciate the encouragement to get on with it and not let these things upset me. Very nice chatting with you, as always FM1T. 🙂
Hi FM1T
Good advice. No need for anyone to miss out on all the good that benefits them on this site by staying where they feel they are affected negatively (as not everyone will be affected in this way). There are a myriad of other choices over leaving the site completely. Leaving that particular thread as you point out makes more sense.
Hi NA
Not so much good advice NA as it is logic. I have learned a lot over the years, controlling my ET and using logic is one of them, not running away because of feeling less than is another. You have helped me with both of these NA. Thank you! 💞xx
FM1T, you always have such great advice to give . You were actually the first person who I interacted with on the blog a few years back. I did change my name for personal reasons ,but I just wanted to say thank you !
Eternity
You are quite welcome! You must have touched a place in my heart if I was the first to interact with you. I don’t know about great advice, but I do try to remember the ones that supported me when the blog first started, helping others is my way of paying it forward. 💞xx
FM1T, I do like helping others move forward as well. Thanks again for all your support it will never be forgotten ❤
AV, I simply must parse this:
1. I have benefitted from the supportive quality of the site but you are correct, it is about learning much more so. For me the two have been intertwined and the learning has been improved by the support. That would not be true for all, no doubt, and I believe I am actually in the minority since many read the blog and never comment.
A miniscule minority comment, and IMHO get a lot out of the discussion.
2. I also own and repeatedly listen to virtually all of the things from the Knowledge Vault, trying to keep them in my mind. There is a lot to absorb.
Rule #2 (#1 is GOSO) for me is Know Your (The) Narcissist. I stay here to keep it fresh, but I don’t need to repeatedly access the material. NO JUDGMENT, IJS
3. I enjoy the exchanges about empaths, that has helped me at times though there are moments where I have to be very careful because my pride is injured by some of the comments. I feel like *possibly* that is the element that Oakey-Wokey was referring to in one-upmanship.
We fascinate me. I knew I was different, but didn’t know how exactly. I am surrounded by empaths and want to know about us because we are pretty fucking awesome. I love it, but the purpose of my being here is narcissism. I am reminded not to get comfortable. While we are all sharing war stories and strategizing, why not look into ourselves?
4. There is an underlying current that some empath schools are more desirable than others, at least from my perspective. And the fact that I have thrown mine out there makes me not okay with questioning that. I should’ve been more careful with that way back when but didn’t realize it at that time.
FUCK THAT NOISE* every school and cadre has many facets and must be considered with the TDC and real life experiences. I’m grateful you shared openly. That is why I like to hear from all of you. Our lives inform our perspectives and manifestations of the various schools and cadres.
*and at this point I would go to the mat for you.
“4. There is an underlying current that some empath schools are more desirable than others, at least from my perspective”
You are not alone in that. The issue has been raised occasionally as the perception of some and sometimes downright declared by others. What a load of horse shit.
There are preferences of types of empaths by narcissists, but so what? To me, that equates to someone proclaiming:
I am the best type of target/victim to be. I am the tastiest and juiciest gazelle on the savanna! Watch now bitches as that lion prepares to eat me first!
The only reason I can think might be valid in an empath revealing their type is possibly to better understand their comments, behaviours, and reactions.
A chart on this thread may have proven helpful haha.
NA, I wasn’t thinking of that way, but yes, I agree with your observation about victimhood.
NA, I agree as stated in the comment to BC30. It is exactly the comments, behaviors and reactions that are the reason I have enjoyed those conversations. Immensely helpful to my understanding of myself and also something I find fascinating. Thank you for your comment. A chart is a great idea, I am working on one as we speak! 🙂
BC30, NA
Agree with you here. There are perceptions of the CoD and the SE. CoD is sometimes perceived as ‘weak’. Well, only in the event she is ensnared and only then due to an extremely giving nature. I see no problem with a giving nature until a narcissist shows up to take advantage. Few empaths are pure CoD anyway and outside of ensnarement many traits would not pose a problem.
People occasionally highlight the higher narcissistic traits of the SE and perceive them as cold or uncaring. This is not a fair representation either from what I’ve seen on the blog. They might not be quite as snuggly but they are no less caring. As far as I can tell there are advantages and disadvantages to all the schools and cadres dependent on situation.
In both examples you see this more on YouTube than on the blog I think. Either that or you get the narcs proclaiming themselves to be SE.
Personally, I think people behave more as their cadres than their school in the more every day circumstances. You see cadres in action on the blog more often than schools. It might just be me but I want to be seen as TS, not as just my school or cadres, though I agree, a chart might explain behaviours seen in some threads! I am fascinated by both narcs and empaths.
1. Unaware Mid Range Narcs often declare themselves as Super Empaths (Who Took Down a Greater) owing to their grandiosity, magical thinking and the need to assert control.
2. Super Empaths are not cold individuals as you state.
3. One way of looking at a CoDependent is to consider what it takes to remain sat on a bucking bronco.
HG, RE: # 2. If Super Empaths were ‘cold’, am I correct in saying they would not be classed as Super Empaths? Some SE have ‘warmth’, others have ‘fire’ yet can wear a ‘cloak’ of ‘indifference’ – depending on the school / cadres (also their life experiences). At # 3. CoDs, does their tenacity depend on the amount of life’s experiences and the depth of the affects ie major trauma?
TS, RE: “I want to be seen as TS, not as just my school or cadres” – a good way of saying that view a person as the individual they are, by their name and not the ‘label’ first. I had always ‘known’ that, yet I learned more about viewing people as they are as individuals and looking past the ‘label’ by being on this blog.
I have said this before (or similar) – when I first looked into KTN blog and read ‘narcissistic psychopath’ in relation to HG, I was hesitant. Then I read some more and thought, well, ‘nothing to lose but everything to gain’ because of some of the comment reading gave me a bit of confidence and it was one of the best decisions I ever made, for myself.
Now, it does not even come into my mind RE: the ‘labels’ of anyone on this blog. I see people’s names (and their different characteristics).
I do remember parts of the conversation RE: YouTube – “Super Empaths” taking down the Greaters.
I’m mostly Standard, and average Joe, run-of-the-mill empath, SE is only triggered as self-defense–like a turtle going into the shell. I agree, we see cadres more readily.
Lashing out with emotion has gotten me into trouble many times, so there is that too. Anger is the biggest one. People who know me well, know it’s just how I am. I’m not angry AT them, I’m usually angry at some THING, they just have to witness it.
I wasn’t even ensnared by the type of narcissist that “prefer” me, so thats just a generalization.
Hi BC30, As you know, HG is very solid that all narcissists will be attracted to us, as empaths. But, I married the one that was of the school most attracted to me, I suspect twice, and I escaped one that would have been more attracted to me if I carried a higher Carrier element and also lots of Magnet. We didn’t mesh as well. This makes me see even more how accurate HG’s system is. And it gives me more desire to avoid all of them, no matter the type.
Hi BC30, first let me say, I love the word parse, that caught me right off, in a good way! And, I’ve not seen you post such a long comment before, I was super excited to read it!
With regard to:
1. I agree 100%.
2. I have to get it in before I can go to the keeping fresh stage, I am still sometimes in the “I’m mind-boggled by all of this” stage. But, your comment gives hope that the day will come when it only requires upkeep.
3. I love the empath conversations, they have been hugely helpful in coming to know about my sense of self. I just need to keep my pride under control, it is my strongest narc trait you know!
4. This is the part that helps me keep that pride under control. We are all awesome in our own way. Having shared early has made me feel a bit vulnerable on occasion but it doesn’t bother a lot.
To you and NA, I have wondered about the reason anyone would be proud to be more tempting to narcs, that seems counterintuitive to the reason we’re here. But, I haven’t felt that way so much as that, apart from narcs, each school and cadre has strengths that help us in general and some of those are more coveted than others. It is this that on rare occasion has caused a pride flareup in me. But I catch myself with the thinking that I don’t have reason to convince anyone of anything, just let it go. It is an opportunity to practice my mind control.
*thank you BC30, the feeling is mutual.
4. There is an underlying current that some empath schools are more desirable than others,
That statement is very scary. It’s like NA said, it’s like saying your the best target. Who the heck wants that?
I find us fascinating and wanted an opportunity to learn about the different empaths as well. I shared my makeup so we can discuss how the different cadres manifests in each of us.
Yes, I like that. It would take a hell of a lot of strength to stay on the bucking bronco. Thank you HG.
Asp Emp,
Yes I agree to looking past the labels. There’s an element of pride involved with me too. I don’t really like to fully conform. I’m not non conformist as such but I don’t generally see myself as fitting into boxes either.
I enjoy talking about the EDC as you know. I probably wouldn’t share my TDC. I totally get why we share some of our results. The people who do talk about this have the very best of intentions too. It does help to pick out cadres when they light up and I love seeing it happen. I like learning about how others see their cadres. Some of our funniest conversations have been about this topic so I’m all for it.
I prefer talking about cadres than school though. That said, I’ve been happily sharing about my Contagion element and admit I don’t fully understand that particular school. Due to numbers of people on various threads, I assume people forget haha so I’m ok with it. Don’t know, I just back up from it a bit. It almost falls under ‘confiding’ that might be it. Can’t explain exactly why, I just back up. I’d have to say no to putting myself on a list. I’m a weird fish.
TS, you’re no weird fish. Good to know your view RE: labels.
“I don’t really like to fully conform” (LOL) – I get that too 😉
RE; EDC discussions, I understand why empaths like to talk about the results. I also understand HG’s point of view RE: us empaths discussing the results of EDCs.
I understand the slight hesitancy on your part and it is totally acceptable RE: “It almost falls under ‘confiding’….”. Nobody needs to share anything really. It’s voluntary (with prior permission, if granted, from HG).
RE: “Putting yourself on a list” – goes back to the view on ‘labelling’ – totally agree on this, TS. 🙂
Well, that explains why every time I’ve ridden a mechanical bull, I was flung right off! 🤠 .02 seconds might be my all time best time.
BC30, laughing…..
BC30
It’s funny, I would never ever think to put ‘Average Joe’ and you in the same sentence!
I know what you mean with being angry at the situation. Frustration rather than rage. Venting rather than targeting.
Average Joe my arse! Hahahaha! Xx
I like the bucking bronco analogy! Codependant isn’t as glamorous as say Super Empath. The article Tenacity comes to mind.
Ah! Yes, the article Tenacity. I’ll need to re-read it.
Asp,
I am a bit of a weird fish. You haven’t seen my secret clown collection!
Xx
TS, it is not longer a “secret” clown collection!! The whole world knows now 😉 Laughing.
Oh, what an interesting conversation!!!
TS, you’re right, it’s just perception. I’m mostly CoD and I don’t feel weak at all! Highly addicted – yes, but not weak. On the contrary, I will endure a lot and will still stand upright and still smile and feel kindness.
TS, what you wrote about schools and cadres – 100% agree. On a daily basis, we exhibit especially the characteristics of cadres, not of the school.
AspEmp, to answer your third question, whether CoD’s persistence depends on their life experiences and experienced traumas – I think so. I feel so, but I am not a specialist.
And not necessarily Geyser has to shed crocodile tears. I’m a 1/3 Geyser and I don’t cry (I sometimes shed a few weak tears every 10 years). But inform me, that something good has happened to you, and I will flood you with a stream of happiness and multiply your experiences, ha ha ha 🙂
Crying irritates me, unproductive waste of time. Come to me crying and I will put you on your feet right away 🙂 And despite my brutality in this regard… they keep coming. Maybe that’s what they need.
Chihuahuamu: “Co-dependant isn’t as glamorous as say Super Empath”. I would argue. It depends on personality traits, intelligence, curiosity and openness to the world, status.
I missed something here. The only empath I know who most want to be is “ super”. Lol Now I appreciated the label as there are those outside this blog who says it does not exist and even called Empaths narcs. To me, it helped me understand my thoughts and behaviors as to narcs and beyond. I still search to understand things and remain here with the great group of Es! We may fall victim to narcs but we bring a lot to the world that narcs could not emotionally understand. I say keep the umbrella up and eyes wide open Es it’s raining narcs;)
Hello AV,
I wasn’t sure about adding a comment on this thread but hey, if it can keep the Aggro Index going down, why not?!
You wrote: “honestly I have seriously considered leaving over some of this,” This is what prompts me to reply (also for new readers), if only to second what others have said already, and HG has shown evidence to support it: there are occasional heated disagreements between some (very few) commenters, but they die down very quickly. And more often than not, those commenters make up in the end, when both parties are ready to accept the peace pipe that’s handed to them by the other.
I have been here for a year and four months (to the day, and counting, haha) and I have seen very few of those arguments. I usually try not to meddle, because I don’t like conflicts and do not weather them very well (plus I think I lack diplomacy generally speaking when faced with conflict).
However, the number of posts those arguments make up is negligeable, and is far outweighed by the number of kind, supportive, sometimes robust but thought-provoking (and I like it) comments here. I love how much I have learnt, and I love just as much the kindness I have witnessed, and the posts that ask questions and make you ask yourself questions even when they are not all lovey-dovey supportive (don’t get me wrong, the lovey-dovey supportive comments make me melt!). They help you move forward too, so much.
When I arrived, I was aching so badly that although at first I viewed the supporting aspect as secondary (I was here to learn and move on through HG’s work first and foremost), I was extremely moved by the support I found. Something I may not have expressed enough, so I take this opportunity to do so.
This blog is absolutely the best place to be when you have (had) to deal with narcissists. The arguments here are nothing like those we have suffered with narcissists, because from what I can see, the persons arguing tell each other clearly (well if it is clear, you know it’s not a narc) what is getting up their noses.
Also, precisely because I don’t like conflict, even those heated arguments I take as something to learn from and get used to: it helps me (and the distance provided by the screen is a great advantage for this) accept that nowhere, and I mean nowhere, am I going to find the kind of utopia I dused to dream of, a place where everyone would just get along. Impossible. Won’t happen. Even if you put together people who have exactly the same objective characteristics. Not anywhere, either online or in real life, as they say.
Hey, the arguments are even helping me view the “wonderful world where everyone gets along wonderfully and only harbours wonderfully positive feelings for everyone else” that I dreamt of more like a dystopia than a utopia: I am almost certain that I would be the first to stir trouble in such a world, haha!
In short, AV: glad you are staying, because you cannot possibly find better elsewhere. HG is absolutely unique in what he provides us with (professionalism included, as evidenced by the way he handles those disagreements), and so is narcsite as far as the interactions are concerned.
XX
Well stated, Fiddleress.
(The Aggro Index stands at 1.56%)
Hi Fiddleress,
Thank you for your comment. My heart is heavy right now, I know that all that you say is true, there is no utopia where all just get along. But HG has said that within a healthy relationship, the people don’t argue, about anything. They discuss, even sometimes boisterously, but they both know that it doesn’t alter their standing in the relationship and that they have equal standing. I worded some of that myself, from my understanding of what he has said. Anyway, the point I’m leading to is, if this is true, why can’t a bunch of empaths get along? That is asking too much, I do realize this also. But the key here, for me, is the ‘discuss’ rather than what can feel like ‘attack’. Most don’t do it in an attacking way, and I’m learning things about this, as to why some do.
Also, the defensiveness that WhoCares addressed yesterday, that is something that I personally struggle with, so I must be forgiving of other empaths who do as well. It is a hard thing to shake when we feel like we must fight for every inch we get, because we had to with the narcissists. We are all entitled to our opinions, we are all entitled to state those opinions, if HG allows them, and it only stands to reason, in my mind, that we would do well to recognize that different opinions are just as valid as our own, not to criticize or put down the one who states it.
The other thing that is hard for me are the sideways or hidden meaning comments, usually two different things. But these are difficult to address head on because the person who stated them hasn’t been straightforward in their approach. So if you state what it appears, there is plenty of room for backlash that you got the meaning wrong. It is similar to cognitive dissonance, it makes me question what is real and what is not, my sense of it or the person’s words. Like it was with my ex. Or my mother. Maybe at some point I will learn how to handle those types of situations.
The making up part that you speak of is difficult for me, every time one of these situations happens, it alters my view of the people involved, they no longer are safe for me. I haven’t been able to figure out how to not allow that, or how to forget and leave it there. hThis is a good reason to sort this out.
Thank you for sharing the observation that in your year and four months you have seen very little of this. In the 8 plus months that I’ve been here this is also my observation, it is easy to forget this after a couple of weeks like the past two. Thank you for the reminder.
nIn the relationships I have/had with narcs, there was peace, at times and of sorts. But it was at a heavy cost to me, not to them.
Thank you for the comment, much to consider.
AV, I can understand why you have a heavy heart, though I am sorry to hear it.
I think HG says that in a healthy relationship, you can have bad arguments alright, but the parties involved will recognise at some point that they’ve gone too far and discuss things and make peace. But I would say the important word here is relationship – between persons who have chosen to have that relationship.
The relationships we form here are not the same, not what we would have in real life, and we have not chosen the people we are with either. So some people will get along (as much as you can online, and it is public), and others won’t; you can’t get along with everyone you are surrounded with in real life either.
Now for the put-downs and harsh words that you have witnessed, I agree that it can feel unsafe to be around those who have issued them, and that your perception of them can change. The best is not to interact with them, and quite soon you’ll probably forget about their presence. Although it could be down to that empath (if they are one) going through a hard time, because we are not in other people’s heads and we don’t know what they are going through. You can only see over time if the behaviour that you saw repeats itself or not (as I am writing this, I cannot for the life of me remember how it all started, but I won’t go back to check!).
Also, I am quite certain that if the people involved had been face to face and not speaking in front of all of us, it would never have turned out like this, because they would have had the person in front of them, made of flesh and blood, they could have seen their eyes, would have heard the tone of voice, they could have spoken directly, reacted physically or with words immediately to what they were hearing, instead of writing unilaterally.
I am a great believer in direct, physical in-person interactions (or at the very least, over the telephone). I do not communicate with others on social media (only here), use text messages only for very basic, practical matters (when no narc is in my life!), and generally resent the ever presence of screens that’s been forced upon us in our lives now. Yes, I am a dinosaur. And in spite of all of this, all of the above, I am here because I owe so much to this place. And nothing like this exists in real life, unfortunately (but HG would not be there, so no point!).
I hope that this message will help you a little. I can really understand what you are saying. But I will add one more thing which played a huge rôle in me getting better : the humour here, HG’s humour and the incredible laughs you can have with others, or just reading their hilarious comments ; and this happens much, much more often than nasty exchanges.
All the best to you AV, stay strong and around the people here who will make you feel safe xx
Fiddleress, such an inspiring comment, it was so good to read. Thank you so much for sharing it. I have to say RE; the part about humour – absolutely.
Aww Asp Emp, thank you! Lovely of you to say so.
Yes, the humour – I’ve always loved British humour, and I enjoy the darkness I can see in American humour too!
Fiddleress, yes, I think you are correct about the relationship aspect, we are not in one with people here as we would be in ‘real life’. Thank you for reminding me! Lol, I don’t interact with a lot of people and especially at the levels I do here so I can forget! And thank you for the advice on how to proceed, that is helpful. I agree that in real life things would have been different, we do lose a lot being faceless typed words! Text is my preferred method of communication if I can’t be in person with someone. And it’s used primarily for fact exchanges, setting up meeting or passing a piece of information we know would interest the other etc. Face to face and one to one is my preferred to actually talk though small groups where I know everyone can be fun for games and such. Large groups where I blend in are fine too. Anyway, I digress. You are correct about patterns over time also, another thing I need to practice as in the past I would walk away from people rather than allow for this. Except for the romantic narcs, they were granted way way too much leeway. I have yet to figure this out, it must be the addiction. And a huge yes to the humor! That is by far the more prevalent and also super fun. It really does help with a dark subject. Thank you for this conversation, it has really helped me process all of this and I have learned a lot.
Fiddleress, after having several hours to process this and read many of the comments on other threads, you are absolutely right. This is very minimal and it should not be such an upsetting thing. Thank you again.
AV, I have just seen your addition, but I replied to your previous message. I just wanted to say that your questioning sounds to me like an existential questioning – some might say spiritual. If it is true, I totally get it. You are not alone. XX
Fiddleress, I’m not sure which questions you are referring to but i would be interested in knowing, your comment has made me curious. If you care to spend the time expanding, if not, I understand.
AV, I was referring to you asking yourself questions such as “why can’t we just get along?”. I may be wrong, but I saw it as ultimately asking yourself (because that is something I have experienced): “How do I go about life/relating to people?” I have often thought to myself that I had a hard time deciphering this world, that I wished I’d been born with an instructions manual, haha! You also refered to asking yourself (in the past) what you were doing on this planet. To me, it seems linked. Hence my calling it existential.
(I hope this makes sense.)
Fiddleress, yes, it makes perfect sense! You really connected the dots on those, I am impressed! Also surprised to be so obvious, lol! Yes, my life, my worldview, is about the big picture, details are more difficult for me, until I get the big picture anyway. Thank you for bringing this to my attention, I will think of these from that perspective. I also think it ties to my head in the clouds, fairytale way of functioning, which is a fine line because I want the ET to go down but I don’t want to lose who I am and I am not sure where the line is. I am actually quite analytical, with my head in the clouds, also, so there is that, maybe I can compound on it there. Thank you for explaining! Good food for thought.
AV, call me Sherlock, haha (Ah, I wish…).
I never thought you were obvious, and I am sorry if you have felt “exposed” in any way; it takes one to know one, so as I thought I could see my own outlook and questioning there, I wrote my reply.
I think understand this too: ” I also think it ties to my head in the clouds, fairytale way of functioning, which is a fine line because I want the ET to go down but I don’t want to lose who I am and I am not sure where the line is.” I will reply later, sorry I have to run now, but I will !
OW, well said. Thank you.
Yeah. I jumped back in here for a day but I’m gonna jump back out.
After reading this massive 1000 or so comment attack thread, while somewhat amused, I felt poisoned.
How familiar.
You really can’t see it until you go NC for a good long while.
Then you realize what you were doing and what the ambient environment was.
Nightmares & Dreams feel different but you’re asleep in both.
I wish you, and all the survivors & warriors, *clarity* & happy fulfilling lives . Life can be Hell, but we’re strong.
Thanks to HG for my initial bubble pop.
Hi WokeAF
That is a bit harsh .
I’m presuming you are far along in your journey now as you were here when I started .
Remember there are newbies here who have no one to turn too and probably don’t even realise what’s happening to them .
If you’ve outgrown this blog fair play to you , you are healed from your Narc most likely but not everyone is that far ahead .
Kiki
WA, I understand. Thank you for your well wishes. I hope all remains ok with you and improves x
Kiki:
Good point, and I suspect I will always be somewhat susceptible to narcs, so I need frequent Narcsite booster shots.
Yes.
And No.
If you address Lickemtomorrow or Leigh, or Fox, then it is Always a support forum.
AC, 100% Accurate. Indeed, it is Always a support forum for me. Everyone that I interact with has always been supportive. I would be lost without it.
Yes I think you and LET and Fox have been supportive to helpseekers in all of your comments so far on Narcsite.
And many others have been supportive as well, everyone that I have interacted with has been.
Thank you AC!
What I was commenting on was Woke’s statement that this is a showing off forum not a support forum. I gave a few example of people who I’ve never seen showing off.
Woke, you need to attend more 🙂 and observe.
AC, thank you for clarifying, yes, that makes perfect sense. I have been impressed by your ability to cut to the chase and say things directly and wisely. You and Eternity are now my heroes. 🙂
I have found everyone really supportive on here too. Not to take away from anyone else’s feelings, as everyone’s experience is different, but I just wanted to add my view for balance.
AC <3
Thank you for your very kind and complimentary comment xox
I accept it with the utmost appreciation.
Now to address what you have said, amongst other things.
This thread is probably the most challenging I've experienced since landing here. Nearly 600 comments, and a lot of angst, including my own. I rarely express a negative comment, as generally I don't feel the need, but on this occasion I found it necessary. I could see people getting hurt and being exposed to what I could only term as abuse from another commenter. I have not changed my opinion about that, and HGs further intervention in the circumstances and the ongoing nature of this thread only affirms me in my initial reaction. Which is one of the reasons I stepped back. I've learned not to feed the troll.
In terms of this being a support forum, I agree. As in, for the most part, the empaths here do support eachother and HG supports our ability to do that. I for one appreciate it, and I'm sure many others do, too 🙂 I also agree we are here to learn about narcissism. NA made a comment which seemed to cover all the bases on how people approach and experience the forum. And each has their own reasons for doing that. HG makes room for us all in that sense, I think. I am grateful for his work, how that impacts me and my understanding, also for the other empaths here who are so willing to share their stories and their struggles, sorrows and triumphs. It's all been encouraging and beneficial to me. And I'm not sure you could have one without the other, or it would be as effective.
I saw HG made a comment about not being the one to provide support, at least in the manner empaths provide support to one another, but he does give us the option to do that and I'm not going to pass it up if it's on offer. No one should feel guilty in either seeking or offering support. Maybe just keep the baked alaska recipes to yourself 😉
So, that's about support. I'm all for it.
I'm also about educating myself. And it's only very recently my understanding around the issue of eroded empathy is becoming more apparent to me. I feel there is an element of discernment that needs to take place around that when it comes to interactions with others, especially here. It's a huge issue where the trauma surrounding narcissistic relationships is concerned. I won't say anymore as my awareness is only being raised more thoroughly, but I sense an element of that on this thread as well.
As to the absolute trauma experienced by some, and WOKE AF in particular, my heart goes out to you and "may the odds be ever in your favour" <3 Sincerely x
Yes, I think both entertainment, action and support are very much needed when we come to HG.
My comment earlier wasn’t so much normativa, it was descriptive, answering claims about ppl here not being supportive, but rather show-off parader, and my Saviour trait immediately awoke, just mentioning a couple of you, who are positively supportive. To contradict the claim.
Analogy: Sometimes I read expressions like “Why are we Christians so mean to eachother”
I don’t like blanket statements where ppl forget the kind empathic helpful members of a group, any group, really.
So this was more a trait instinct from me, than anything against, WokeAF, whom I’ve missed here.
AC, I was impacted by that part of the comment as well, and I think some others have responded similarly. It seemed to come a little out of left field, but I think a combination of a return after a long and traumatic absence and walking into this thread likely prompted the response. And I’m glad you and others stepped in to contradict the claim. Simply because my experience has not been the one described and any newcomers may be taken aback and decide not to join in.
Quite right on the blanket statements, especially if they are unfounded (which most of the time they are as blanket statements).
I love seeing other empaths traits shine, and way to go in that sense! They are there for a purpose and can serve us well.
WokeAF came in like a bit of a stormtrooper there, but going by the very personal story she shared, I’m guessing she has been in stormtrooper mode for some time. Maybe recognizing or dealing with different priorities and finding the focus here out of sync with what she has just been through. I wouldn’t blame her. I can’t imagine going through the same thing and ever returning to normal, or not for a very long time. Just the description of riding into Hell made me realize how devastating and challenging that experience must have been. I’d imagine it’s the type you wouldn’t wish on your worst enemy. Some of us may understand that, but in a different context.
I’m reminded of a Taylor Swift song which really resonated with me late last year (Epiphany) which has a line:
“And some things you just can’t speak about … ”
Some experiences in life are unspeakable.
I hope WokeAF is OK x
LET, such an understanding and inspiring comment. Thank you for sharing it.
““And some things you just can’t speak about … ”. Some experiences in life are unspeakable” – exactly. In saying that, it has become easier for me to do so on this blog, as time has gone by – reduced ET / increased LT being the reason for the ease of talking about it. Yet there may be a couple of things that remain “unspeakable”, as long an individual does not let this be a ‘hindrance’ to looking at the better areas of their life, which can now be finally understood, accepted (or not).
Yes, I too, hope WokeAF is ok.
Dearest lickemtomorrow,
I too, have had many mixed emotions on this thread and the effect it’s had on us.
I felt like waving a white flag, messaging Mr Tudor, not reading any more comments or not commenting further, however, I thought, is it not all about us grasping challenges n dealing with our emotions, provoked or unprovoked ?
But then, I saw it as empaths expressing themselves as individuals and to me thats a good positive trait
I have often in my life, expressed my views n thoughts and argued the point at every conceivable angle…. even if just gave me personal satisfaction or my own justification of believing in myself or proving to myself I want to be right or even found to be wrong (that sucks) ……sometimes only just to have a voice and be heard ….dealing with a narc has given me more strength to vocalise
Needless to say I did not make the debating team haha
I’m a tad neuron aged deprived to engage with you bright, articulated n lovely sparks, plus I’d get sidetracked by shiny objects and more than likely stray off the topic (a trait I’ve definitely learnt about myself) haha
How boring it would be if all continually agreed and lived in a perfect world …it’s not humanly possible …..one could simply find peace serenity n harmony in a Japanese garden.. not here haha
I’m learning muchos here, whether be it right or wrong perceptions, indifferences or even clashes of personalities
There is always interesting learning and valuable information to be had from both sides
Whether it be negative or positive, I feel we have all gained and not lost by any stretch of the imagination …. reality checks are what we desperately need I feel
I personally respect n admire each individuals characteristics n opinions and by no means think less of anyone here, in fact the opposite
Agreeing to disagree always wins the order of the day and respect is maintained on all accounts. We must continue to move ‘forward’ in order to break through our own individual barriers, sadly for some, it’s just too much to bear
Luckily for us, we have a Master Commander at the helm who admirably steers us safely back on course
I always have popcorn on stand by 🍿… just in case 😉
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Bubbles <3
I love the ship reference. We're all taking to the life rafts 😛 Just kidding, but I was talking about bringing ships to a safe harbour earlier x Anyway, we accept that will hopefully always be Mr Tudor's intention on the blog, and I see he has steadied the ship for now.
I appreciate your well intended thoughts and feelings. Striking middle ground is something to aspire to for the most part, and I don't disagree. There is always more than one side to an argument or discussion, and it is good to get a variety of perspectives. As a reasonable person, I have no objection to that and it's a good reminder.
What I struggle with, and ultimately don't accept, is abusive comments, whether directed at me or anybody else. Nor do I believe them to be in any way beneficial to individuals here on the blog. We may have read certain comments differently with regard to disagreement and abuse, as in some of us may perceive these things differently.
I will accept that is the case, as you have so graciously shared your point of view with me again, and I respect that.
If there is any further need for popcorn, I'll know where to go <3 xox
(PS: you know I love your emojis!)
LET, the very young picture of yourself and your wisdom is giving me a bit of cognitive dissonance. Haha! Thank you for sharing your insights here, as always great thoughts and much to learn from. Not knowing WokeAF but seeing the warm reception by many and then the apparent attack, I was really sent spinning. Your comments regarding eroded emotional empathy help bring this into some sort of sense. I appreciate it much.
AV, apologies for the cognitive dissonance 😛
I think I’m giving myself cognitive dissonance!
I’m glad my comments help bring that experience into perspective. I think we were all taken a little by surprise, and possibly didn’t know how to interpret that.
There is a dividing line for me when it comes to the erosion of emotional empathy and what I would term abuse.
Lashing out due to trauma = erosion of emotional empathy.
Lashing out to cause trauma = abuse.
When I mentioned discernment earlier, it was in relation to determining this dividing line, and being able to tell the difference, between the two.
It’s something I don’t take lightly, especially when it comes to individuals who have already been traumatized. Including myself.
Having said that, now I’m off to see what other avi’s I can find to suit my mood today <3 xox
LET, no apology necessary, it was nice to see young you! I love the new avi also, pink is my favorite and also cherry blossoms. When I was quite young my dream was to go to DC when the cherry trees were in bloom. So a year or two later it was very exciting to move close to DC for what ended up being three years. We went to DC many times but I have no memory of seeing those trees in bloom, thank you narc parents, another promise broken. I will have to go again. Or perhaps your avi is apple blossoms, equally as lovely.
Thank you for sharing your dividing line, it makes very good sense.
Thank you for the compliment on my new avi, AV 🙂 They are cherry blossoms, and they are my favourite, too <3 I would love to see them in Washington, and I have been, but during the summer and not the spring. It was lovely and incredible to visit, and I would definitely go again, so I hope you get the chance, too, when the blossoms are in bloom this time xox
LET, I hope we both can get there to see them sometime, or Japan! Wouldn’t that be fun!
Japan would be amazing!
I’ve told my children to plant a cherry blossom tree over my grave when I die <3
What a great idea! I’m going to do that too!! Thanks for that!
Dearest lickemtomorrow,
My sentiments exactly, abusive comments aren’t necessary or warranted
What it demonstrates is frustration n anger = extremely elevated emotions
Anything ‘intentional’ is meant to cause hurt n pain ….. this gives me reason to believe there are hidden agendas and makes me question “what are they”?
This blog is about taking control of our emotions
Rules of engagement …… DON’T …… especially if it causes harm in any way
I try to keep these in mind for myself …..
Is it true ?
Is it necessary ?
Is it kind ?
I believe apologises have been extended and ‘hopefully’ lessons learnt
Always a pleasure lickemtomorrow 💕
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Hi Bubbles,
We agree again – “abusive comments aren’t necessary or warranted”
This is where we may differ – “What it demonstrates is frustration and anger = heightened emotions”
In some people yes. In others, what it demonstrates is a sense of entitlement.
That is my dividing line.
The way I see it, part of HGs aim is to advise empaths and teach them how to reign in their emotional thinking. The main purpose is to teach them about narcissism.
The rules of engagement you keep in mind are good ones to hold to, although kindness is qualified by truth for me, where truth becomes the necessary kindness.
And in all honesty, some apologies are not worth the paper they are written on.
I appreciate your further input, and value again what you have shared xox
Dearest lickemtomorrow,
We’re both on the same side lickem. I totally concur with what you’re saying regarding a ‘sense of entitlement’ and ‘apologies’.
I myself, have learnt to err very much on the on the side of caution n diplomacy.
How am I doin so far ??? Haha
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Bubbles <3
We are on the same side! Thanks for reminding me x
And you're doing great! xox
Erring on the side of caution makes sense, especially in terms of diplomacy. I do it often, but maybe it doesn't look that way 😛
It goes out the window sometimes if I feel particularly passionate about something.
Mustn't let the narcissist know 😉
Hi WokeAF,
Welcome back to the blog. It’s been a while. Back when you were here more often, you and I didn’t interact much.
I see you have decided to step up to the plate, put your boxing gloves on, and take a swipe. Your choice.
Why you choose to do that, I’m not sure. You obviously have an issue with me in some way. That’s up to you and has nothing to do with me. What you think of me is your business.
The main reason I’m here on the blog is to learn and to understand. I’m not here to present my RL story in order to gather support and camaraderie. I don’t measure people’s circumstances in order to see who has it better or worse. That’s your projection here. Again, your perception of that has nothing to do with me.
I’m not sure why you want to eat me for breakfast. What does that even mean? Again, your perception.
My comment to Eternity wasn’t about you. It was a general comment and it was about narcissists and my thoughts about them *in general*. It was also positive in regard to HG and HG’s information.
This will be my one and only reply to you in this ‘conversation’. Honestly, I don’t want to waste my time and energy on it.
So, you can shuffle off back to the ‘Tudor gang’ and take your boxing gloves with you. There, you and all the gang members can slap yourselves on the back and keep bantering about how entertaining all of this is. You can also congratulate yourselves on how hard you have it and proceed to gang up on people in such an evidently ’empathic’ way. I’m sure HG will ‘approve’ and allow it.
I wish you well WokeAF and good luck with your RL circumstances.
Wiser now
Just an observation but you seem to really on the defense here lately .😳
Kiki
WN absolutely no reference to you in my mind whatsoever .
I am not sure I even read your comment you think I’m addressing , I will scroll up.
I have no beef w any one particular person here .
My comment was what I can see going in here now that the spell broke,nothing more
There’s much support and comraderie to be had here, as I said it’s a gamble – and all good fun from a unattached mindset, as well as a step in Narc education.
Hmmmm OkeyWokey
I’ve been here a few years don’t post much to be honest but whenever I do I have found several of the members here extremely supportive and understanding.
I won’t name names but they are a ray of light and give the time and energy to reply with kindness.
I only once had a spat here and that had to do with politics, so I don’t go there as it was partly my fault as perspectives can be heated and politics really has nothing to do with my recovery.
What’s the old saying keep politics and religion out of the dinner party chat.
It’s true .
I personally do not like discussions where we delve into what kind of Empath we are etc .So I just avoid those .
I think if you come poking and prodding and looking for an argument then you will get it , just like in the real world .
Kiki
Well stated.
I guess everyone somehow MISSED the 1000 comment catfight I was commenting on lol
Alongside the 388 000 comments without any catfights.
“If you present your RL story you might get an ounce of support and comradery as I have.”
I’ve had plenty more than an ounce of support and comradery here. And unless you have identified actual empaths (in your real life) who have undergone similar circumstances AND apply HG’s; those real life friends do not truly get it.
No one *gets it* like many of the educated empaths here. For that, I am extremely grateful. And I am sure many an isolated empath (disengaged or escaped – or still ensared!) have been grateful for this place when there really isn’t anyone they can turn to in their day to day life.
To disparage the environment here, based on a handful of conflictual situations, isn’t based on objectivity or a fair appraisal of the blog interactions.
Thank you WC.
(The Aggro Index stands at 2.43%)
I felt the need to speak up.
Not everyone’s experiences here are the same.
And, sorry, maybe this is a dumb question but what is the “Aggro Index”? Google is not my friend this morning…still mystified.
It has been alleged that this is a hostile environment. It is not. The evidence demonstrates that. The Aggro Index shows the percentage of argumentative, aggressive, insulting and labelling comments compared to the number of comments on the blog that I have moderated since the index came into existence i.e. today. It is a demonstration of evidence to provide context.
Ohhh. Thank-you HG. I am all for the evidence as well.
Something else I have witnessed, in part, as a consequence of learning on this blog, is that two empaths interacting, who are entrenched in their views, can actually be more conflictual than an empath and a narcissist interacting…since a narcissist will only do what’s necessary to achieve control, but empaths have… tenacity.
How do we know the difference??? I am so confused!!!
AV,
I remember, earlier on when I first started reading, witnessing a couple of isolated heated discussions and wondering myself. I was confused too. It can be hard to judge character online. However, as HG’s has repeatedly said, it is about an aggregate of behaviours over time. Back then, at the beginning, I took it upon myself to observe and look up past discussions or even the “Letter to the Narcissist” series to learn more about individuals commenting here – and I made my own determination.
Many of the commenters in this thread have been here for years, and you can just tell that they are empaths – they might have had history with some other commenters and a negative experience that creeps back into discussions, but they are still empaths.
One thing I find interesting, is many empaths go on the defense of “I am not the person you are suggesting I am” – which, considering that most empaths have been subjected to various and repeated accusations by the narcissists in their lives, this defensive position is not surprising.
Personally, I am over this for the most part. I think it comes as a consequence as having endured a long time ensnarement and being accused of being someone that I am not. And on top of that I have endured a long court battle, during which I again have had to defend my position as to what kind of person I am and what kind of parent I am. I am wearied by it, very wearied. At this point, I am like, if that’s who you think I am – you aren’t worth the breath defending myself to. If you can’t look closer and make up your own mind: you aren’t worth my time and energy.
So when I see empaths here going on the defense after feeling that they are subjected to repeated accusations or misrepresentations, I am like: let it go. Let it go.
Your actions over time demonstrate who you are, and those that care to see, will see it.
AV, I am no longer all about telling people who you are (or who I am). I am about *showing* people who I am. Show them.
Precisely, it is about examining the evidence something I repeatedly encourage people to do with regard to the many situations which I advise on.
(The Aggro Index stands at 4.1%)
Thank you WhoCares, this is very good. It goes along with how I “defended” myself against the smearing my ex did. I didn’t. After time, people could see the truth and if some never did, they don’t matter to me. Thank you, this comment is very helpful.
AV, for me, I don’t worry about the difference. This is where my black and white thinking comes in. If the conflict starts to turn mean or if I feel uncomfortable, I’ll stop interacting.
Yes, that makes sense. I want to know the difference because I want to get away from narcissists but not necessarily empaths. I am going to share something, you are the perfect person for this!! I had a conversation with my boss this morning and he actually totally gets it!! He worked for a narcissist for 17 years and started his own business as a result! I was so shocked, he said straight up to me that I am in a safe place! It was such a great conversation, I couldn’t believe it. Anyway, I have been bursting to share that since but this blog is going crazy at the moment! Lol! So, do I do my job or catch up on comments???
I think the more you are here, the more you will be able to spot the difference. It will start to come naturally.
I’m glad that your boss understands. Its so important to have people in your network that get it. It can be frustrating when they don’t.
Its probably best to do your job, you don’t want your understanding boss to become less understanding, lol.
Haha, yes. Thanks.
*Tenacity in maintaining their viewpoint.
HG,
I said it *can* be a hostile environment. That doesn’t mean it is always so.
Mr. Tudor says, “It has been alleged that this is a hostile environment.” I wonder if its the commenters who are causing the hostility that are alleging its a hostile environment.
I feel the need to speak up too. If you feel its hostile, then stay away from the hostility. Its only hostile if you interact with those who are hostile.
This blog IS a safe environment. I find it extremely helpful and supportive. Its my one place where I find solace. Thank you, Mr. Tudor.
Your opening paragraph is correct and the balance of your comment is well stated.
(The Aggro Index stands at 3.29%)
Why did it go up? What is happening???
A comment was made which increased the percentage (it does not necessarily mean it is the comment where the Aggro Index appears)
Okay, thank you.
Here is the least hostile place ever!
Indeed. If people think this place can be hostile, they really do not know what hostile is.
(The Aggro Index stands at 3.7%)
Even though you are an NP HG, you handle matters with professionalism at all times. When there is good governance, there are well behaved people. It’s all about who is at the top.
Thank you AS2016, the evidence speaks for itself.
I fully agree with this comment from Who Cares. I have been commenting on the blog for over a year and my experience has been extremely positive. The empaths here have offered unwavering support to me at a time when I was at a very low ebb. They continue to do so.
The people I have interacted regularly with, and there are a fair few of them, have offered differing views, differing ways of looking at things, some of which I agree with, some less so. All of these views shared a commonality though, they were honestly put forward with the best of intentions and they were interpreted and welcomed by me as such.
I am not of the opinion that there are numerous narcissists circulating on the blog. Some commenters will be unknowns but on the whole, it is my view that this is a safe environment to discuss and recover. In terms of forums there will be no safer forum on the internet.
I have had only one interaction on the blog that I deemed as being wholly negative. One in a full year of consistent commenting. I chose not to interact further with that individual and will maintain that approach going forward. We do have the choice to not interact. This doesn’t mean I view the individual as a narcissist. It simply means I see no benefit to be gained from interacting with them further.
I have debated, I have offered opposing opinions to those of some very long standing Narcsite commenters. Notably on the ‘Dark Cupid’ thread and on the ‘This Mindset Equals Victory’ thread. Commenters holding opposing views to mine treated me respectfully and my views were considered and validated for being my own views. Interestingly on the latter thread I spoke up in direct opposition to HG himself. Similarly, my views were posted exactly as written and HG did not use his influence and knowledge to counter or invalidate my position. Narcissist he may be, but from personal experience I cannot fault his deportment on the blog. His role is not supposed to be a paternalistic one. His role in my view is to educate and facilitate debate in a constructive manner.
It concerns me that newer readers will be ‘put off’ by a couple of recent threads. Please don’t be. Comment, debate, speak freely, do what is necessary to further your own recovery. Between the quality and accuracy of the information available, and the kindness and support offered by empathic commenters here, there is no better place to overcome the difficulties we have experienced in the past and to protect ourselves from future narcissistic influence.
This thread in my view, is not representative of the numerous threads I have taken part in on the Narcsite blog.
Balanced observations, thank you TS6157.
“Indeed. If people think this place can be hostile, they really do not know what hostile is.” <<< THIS
Precisely.
This is not a question, it’s an observation. My first thought was “We need to define these terms.” “argumentative, aggressive, insulting and labelling” and how is the Aggro Index calculated, it is subjective, yes, but how does it come to be a percentage?
At less than 4% it’s a tiny amount. It prompted me to go back and look at some old posts.
1. Argumentative, aggressive, insulting and labelling behaviours in a comment are behaviours which most people are capable of understanding. Your comment BC30 is not one captured by those terms.
2. The index is calculated by taking the number of comments which contain the aforementioned behaviours and then dividing them by the number of posts moderated in total today (there is not a chance that I am going back through 391 035 comments to apply it retrospectively) then multiplied by 100 to get a percentage.
3. Yes, it is a tiny amount which rather demonstrates the point.
I honestly would prefer stay out of such discussions, but I think generally speaking, if you are feeling hostility in this space, it is important to reflect on why that might be. I often only peek in at the threads here, but I see so many kind and supportive people here, and HG himself always keeps himself in check even when people are attempting to press his buttons, even though he could be brutal if he wanted to.
As they say where I am from, “Don’t start none, won’t be none”.
Fair comment.
HG,
You’re welcome. It’s important to me that new arrivals receive the information and support they need to recover, just as I did. This is the best place for that.
WhoCares,
Contrary to the fact that I never intervened before about these subjects, I know I can talk to you: personally I have a major trust issue, that’s why I have never told anyone anything about myself: no letter to the narcissist, no letter to my younger self, and not to any commenter in person, there are a few people I trust here, you of course, and you can fill in some names undoubtedly, you will immediately recognise my style when I am suspicious, which is almost always!
That said: the title of this place is not: “Come here together and let’s help each other”, or, “Recover from narcissistic abuse”, some people seem to totally miss the title of this blog.
For me this is a University in the first place.
I take notes. I take this very seriously, summarise things, learn things by heart, etc,…
I have bought everything from the Knowledge Vault (literally), and play it on and on and on.
There are packages where I literally know when a pause will fall, when Mr Tudor will misspeak, will cough, etc…
This was never a place of distraction for me.
The fact that people support each other when in shit and in need of a kind word, that is a fantastic side product (forgive me if wrong word, not native speaker), but that was never what this place was created for. At least that is not what I am searching here.
I would not mind if it was more about narcissism instead of empaths!
“Mr Tudor will misspeak” what fresh heresy is this?!!
A differing and valid perspective, thank you for sharing it Z.
(The Aggro Index stands at 3.9%)
Hi Z!
“the title of this place is not: “Come here together and let’s help each other”
I get that. Although, personally, I have felt helped here.
“For me this is a University in the first place.
I take notes. I take this very seriously, summarise things, learn things by heart, etc,…”
I totally get this also. I am on a different journey here, now, as you appear to be. This is partly why I no longer comment regularly on the main blog; but I greatly appreciated the support and fellowship it provided when it served a different need for me. The support and laughs I have experienced here cannot be duplicated anywhere else. I still comment when I feel like it might help or where I still feel the need to commiserate.
But now the connection I have is more through the shared love of the pursuit of learning that has arisen out of KHG and the discussions there. Even though the forum is a bit slow at the moment.
‘I have bought everything from the Knowledge Vault (literally), and play it on and on and on.
There are packages where I literally know when a pause will fall, when Mr Tudor will misspeak, will cough, etc…”
Haha..I know what you mean; for some recordings that I have revisited many times, it is similar for me.
““Mr Tudor will misspeak” what fresh heresy is this?!!”
Haha. There are some recordings where I know exactly when you are going rub your stubble…or where your chair is going to squeak, HG.
It stands out. It makes you more human.
They’re just sound effects I add in. I’m just an evil mind floating in special brain fluid controlling the world from a hollowed our volcano super villain lair.
WC, that made me giggle.
Z – zwartbolleke, thank you for sharing this. I have wondered about you, figured your history might be somewhere way back in the blog but have not read enough to know about that. I have appreciated the input you have made over the time I have been here and also this comment. I have benefitted from the supportive quality of the site but you are correct, it is about learning much more so. For me the two have been intertwined and the learning has been improved by the support. That would not be true for all, no doubt, and I believe I am actually in the minority since many read the blog and never comment. I also own and repeatedly listen to virtually all of the things from the Knowledge Vault, trying to keep them in my mind. There is a lot to absorb. I enjoy the exchanges about empaths, that has helped me at times though there are moments where I have to be very careful because my pride is injured by some of the comments. I feel like *possibly* that is the element that Oakey-Wokey was referring to in one-upmanship. There is an underlying current that some empath schools are more desirable than others, at least from my perspective. And the fact that I have thrown mine out there makes me not okay with questioning that. I should’ve been more careful with that way back when but didn’t realize it at that time. But, the overall has been beneficial to my learning even with these small things in the mix. All of that to say, I really am glad you spoke into this with your thoughts. AV
Z
Excellent comment. I have pondered many of your points myself.
The title is Knowing the Narcissist, although I find it to have evolved to having a lot more focus on the empaths (by the empaths) over time. That is not to say that it’s good or bad but merely an observation.
A question I have asked myself lately is: HG created a blog. Who and when was it decided that it’s chief purpose was as a support forum?
And….we’re back to definitions and perspectives. As the majority if the visitors do not comment, I take it that most people use it as a place of learning. For some it is a blog – a community of people with a shared general interest and a place to exchange opinions and ideas. For others it is a place for validation and support. People decide what it is for them personally and there might be a number of people who share that opinion, but that does not make it so for any one group.
I view it as being a place for ALL of these things amongst others (lets not forget humour, and the beautiful writing for example).
I find the comment section to have become more of an atmosphere of coffee club between friends than discussion about narcissism, but I also understand that people arrive here in different states and with different needs. My feeling is that they should be able to be presented with different perspectives, take what they need, and leave the rest. There is room for everyone.
Indeed NA, this place does not have the chief purpose of a support forum. It is a blog which explains to you about me, narcissism, the dynamic between the narcissist and their victims, who those victims are, what those victims can do and provides an encyclopaedic resource to understand “all things narc”. I allow people in the comments to be supportive to one another (after all I am not going to do that) to add to the integrity of the blog as a place of learning, knowledge and discussion. There are times where the supportive element spills over into the “coffee club” aspect which I tolerate but it is not the primary or secondary purpose of this place. That is why I “prune” certain discussions by telling people that that is enough of that topic. I appreciate people feel comfortable in having some off topic discussion and I also recognise that levity aids people also given the subject matter, however, it is a blog about narcissism and in certain instances that will be reinforced.
You are correct that the majority of people use it as a place of learning, feeling no need to comment.
(The Aggro Index stands at 2.89%)
For me, Mr. Tudor’s blog has been different things at different times of my healing process..
At first it was to learn and make me aware of narcissism. When I first arrived, learning about narcissism was my first and only priority. I barely commented. As I learned, I realized how deeply I was ensnared. I had no one to turn to except the empaths here. So Mr. Tudor’s blog ended up morphing into a safe haven and support forum for me. I also thought commenting about my circumstances would show other targets that they aren’t alone. Once I’m free from the narcissists in my life and further along in the healing process, hopefully I won’t need the support as much and I can help others.
I do agree, that first and foremost, the primary purpose of this blog is to learn about narcissism.
Valid observations.
(The Aggro Index stands at 2.08%)
Leigh, this is a really good comment. It was inspiring to read it. RE: “Once I’m free from the narcissists in my life and further along in the healing process, hopefully I won’t need the support as much and I can help others” – that is my view and possibly where I am at present. Thank you for sharing your comment.
Who Cares,
AV and I had a discussion about the sounds on the videos. We both agreed they make HG sound ‘real’ or more human as you put it. We have a particular fondness for listening to him breathing.
I still have Tudor Minutes to spend.
“An evil mind floating in special brain fluid”
What colour is the brain fluid? I anticipate Vimto might want to know.
Any colour I want it to be at any given point.
“We have a particular fondness for listening to him breathing.
I still have Tudor Minutes to spend.”
Oh, geez, this cracked me up TS.
WhoCares:
Ooohhh…stubble-rubbing.
“Any colour I want it to be at any given point.”
The chameleon nature of the narcissist.
You got it. HG approves.
OkeyWokey:
I haven’t even done the EDC yet. As far as pride, I’m proud that I didn’t descend to punching GrinchLady in the face, however richly she deserved it, but I’m still not sure if my short-circuited attempt to bring her policy violations to management’s attention was defeated Shell-Shocked Silence or a recognition that I was wasting my breath, and to protest would only give them more fuel–they just didn’t want to hear it. All I could think was, “the manager is also a narc. I suspected it before, given what other people have said as well as what I’ve observed, but now I’m as certain as I can be without HG’s having done an NDC on her. Without evidence, I’m screwed. Couldn’t use a phone in the classroom to record the GL in action, and coworker Carla will try to stay out of it and mumble that she ‘doesn’t remember.'”
So was I wise or a wimp? I did as well as I could without HG in the room with me or feeding me lines through an earbud.
Hi Eternity, I have wondered the same thing but have come to believe it’s because there are narcissists in our midst and HG uses their presence to teach us things sometimes. I have made a decision to stay out of the issues, I learn from reading them, that’s enough for me.
A Victor ,
I didn’t realize they are probably Narcissist. I have read the comments but refrained from commenting. I just thought people were just trying to get their point across. I have said before I try and stay away from drama it just causes way to many problems and who needs that right. We are trying to all recover here.
I agree. I do see the sense in it, in a way, but I have no desire to participate.
Yup, me too I have other desires that I need to fill.
Eternity, I’m sure that people wanting to get their point across its a lot of it also. I hadn’t thought of that. Thank you.
A Victor ,
You so welcome hun !
Ive decided to stay out of the issues as well. If a conversation makes me feel uncomfortable, I won’t comment. Sometimes I’ll continue to read but sometimes if it gets to mean, I have to stop reading too. I don’t like when people are mean. Its not necessary. So many of us have been abused so much already and we come here for solace not for more abuse.
Leigh, thank you for that. That’s how I view it and I also stop reading if it goes beyond a certain point. I am so confused by all of this, I see that I don’t go with my experience, I go with what someone says. How dumb is that? I need to open my eyes, this place had done nothing but support me and I have become very fond of many here. It is scary that someone can hurt you in a place where you’ve bared your soul. But not having that experience, nor seeing most others with that experience happening, I should’ve thought that through. I am so glad to see people stating the truth. I just wanted to protect Eternity, I see her as sweetness and light and don’t understand why anyone would say anything negative to her. I do see that she can defend herself though too, which makes me happy. Anyway, thank you again Leigh, still a ways to go. Teary day ahead I’m afraid. Dammit.
Its not dumb that you go by what people say. You want to believe that people are telling the truth. The best advice I can give you is trust your gut. If you feel uncomfortable, its probably best to stay away. Most people that are here, really want to help.
I don’t trust my gut, I don’t even feel it most of the time. I was taught that I couldn’t trust it and it is very difficult to overcome that. The drilling down to the logic is the only thing that is helping and sometimes I can tell that it connects with the gut sensation. I will just keep working on it. Thanks!
Ok. Then drill down to the logic and look to the evidence, like Mr. Tudor says. If you look at it logically and look at the evidence, you’ll have your answer.
You are so kind A Victor. If I was with you I would hand you over a kleenex tissue and wipe the tears away from your eyes and tell you it’s ok. Then I would cry with you. Giving you a big hug right now!
Thank you Eternity, I have had to get a few kleenex’s today, I appreciate the thought! Thank you for the hug too. I don’t mind the virtual ones! 🙂
Again A Victor you are welcome. Sending you another hug for good.luck !
Big hugs to you and your son A V, he has a great mom.
AC, that is very kind, thank you.
Leigh, my thoughts exactly !
We needs more abuse. We have been through hell and back. I don’t know about you but I have had enough. Enough is enough.
Let’s keep learning here and support one another. We all need somebody to lean on.
I agree 100%!
Me too ! This thread is super duper long. My email keeps beeping with new comments coming in.
If that is true then that is really sad. I know that I passed my ED but what if everyone here thinks that I am that narcissist that HG allows here to be used to teach commenters lessons. It makes me feel objectified. Why would I want to be around and seen as a fool being used to illustrate what a narcissist is. I came here to learn about my past and to protect myself in the current and future. Occasionally I give support and share information that I think might be helpful. But if I am just being manipulated then it’s not something that is worth my time.
HI MP, I don’t if it makes a difference but I don’t think you’re one of the narcissists on here. Not everyone is going to get along with everyone and that’s ok. There are a lot of strong personalities on the blog. We have to be strong to endure the things we’ve gone through. There are going to be times that these personalities clash. I think the things you have shared have been helpful. A lot of what you say resonates with me.
Leigh, “We have to be strong to endure the things we’ve gone through.” This is a great comment, thank you for stating it, it is helpful to remember.
Your welcome. I saw you’re thinking about leaving the site. Try not to let a couple of bad apples ruin the whole bunch. There are many here that genuinely caring people.
Well, that is only a momentary thought in the heat of the situation. I have decided to just avoid those interactions more. They have been good for learning but the level of upset is not worth it sometimes. I do realize that most here are amazing people who only want to help. And that there is no better place to go for the learning. So, new game plan, just go elsewhere on the blog during those events, as I have previously done. If I said the things that come into my mind during some of those things, everyone would think I am a narcissist! And sometimes it is very tempting. So, best to avoid altogether.
MP, I think he allows people to disagree, I know I need to build my assertiveness quotient. Maybe it’s for that purpose, not just for me of course but others as well? Eternity made a good point, people trying to get their point across, not that that’s you, just that empaths can do it as well as narcs, a point I missed. I was not thinking of anyone when I wrote that, I apologize if it offended you.
Hello AV and Leigh, thank you for the reassurance. I apologize for jumping into conclusions too. I want to write a longer explanation maybe tomorrow when my day is less busy. But right now I just want to send this really quickly to send my appreciation and apologies as well.
MP, I don’t think you need to apologize. I don’t think you did anything wrong. We all jump to conclusions or over think sometimes. I mean, I’m Queen of the over thinkers. We’re good. I just wanted to make sure you knew that I do find you helpful and supportive.
Thank you Leigh! HG could have another sin of the empaths article: Overthinking.
Although I guess it could fall in the sin of Self Doubt category. 😊
No problem MP, no need to apologize either. I spoke to Eternity from my own ignorance about the situation and here again I have been learning ever more. Have a good day.
Thank you AV. No worries either. It wasn’t ignorance, it was how you saw or interpreted the situation. I promised to write a longer comment but I see many new comments posted since then and a lot of interesting opinions and perspectives have been shared already that I don’t think I have anything new or different to add. Thank you AV and have a wonderful day!
Hi MP, absolutely not trying to be disagreeable, but it actually was ignorance. The issue that had happened the week before was one in which I learned that narcissists are on here. So when this issue came up, that was where my mind went. I had not yet learned that empaths can also have problems amongst themselves, that was new to me. So, my comment literally was from a place of not knowing the bigger picture. And I was caught off guard by the number of responses that happened in addition to mine, shouldn’t have been, but that did see a bigger picture. As such I immediately realized the error in my thinking and wished I had not put that comment up. But once there, too late. I have learned much from this experience and will be more cautious going forward.
My mother was very negative about my friendships with girls/women. I think as a result I did not have many and did not learn how to interact in healthy ways. She disliked the cattiness so used that to keep me, in my opinion, from friendships. The cattiness is something I really dislike, did she know this and use it? Did I learn to dislike it because she talked about it? Who knows, all I do know is that it is something that makes me feel out of control, out of my element, and I just want it to stop when it happens, why can’t we all just get along. But, that is not reality and I guess I must face it, to a degree. Thankfully, as HG has pointed out here, it is in the very small minority of comments only, not the bulk. I hope you have a wonderful day also!
Hello AV, I understand. I have changed so much too since I started in the blog. This has been the first forum I have been actively participated in so there has been a learning curve. And also things I regret but it doesn’t matter because we can always change going forward.
My mother was the same way. If she saw me enjoying someone’s company or praising the person to her a lot, whether it was a relative or a friend, she would tell me that the person was just using me and didn’t really like me. It has affected a lot of my socializing and when I read the word “programming “ it really feels like programming from childhood by an N parent because it’s so hard to rewire yourself. I have to say I have changed so much in my 11 yrs of marriage with a normal because he pointed out toxic behaviors or even mindset from me and I gave them thought and he was right so eventually I have gotten rid of a lot of them.
I can totally relate with you about not being sure if your dislike for something was authentic to you or was programed to you. It takes a lot of searching for ourselves but also it helped me a lot to just embrace who I am now whether it was from the programming. Even though it’s a cliché, for me sometimes it helps to tell myself that this is who I am now and I will just go forward with whatever I currently got. If you dislike arguments I think that you did a wonderful thing to stay out of it because you are honoring your feelings. 🦋
MP, thank you for sharing your understanding about our evolution here, it really relates to reprogramming or rewiring for me, very much so. And narc parents are horrible, the worst. I am working on becoming aware of my gut feelings, being more assertive (a long way to go on this one!), discovering and defining my sense of self etc all on top of learning about narcissism generally. You know, HG could’ve stopped at narcissism and only told us that side of it, and that in itself would’ve been a huge gift to humanity. The fact that he also tells us about ourselves also is a huge bonus. I mean, they are intertwined but one could be done without the other. And he certainly could choose to keep the blog absolutely focused on narcissism, the articles, maybe our questions about narcissism. But he has allowed a lot of freedom for us to experience growth as empaths also, to learn about ourselves and to facilitate our rewiring. I will never be able to thank him enough for this. And I am glad that the whole picture is here so that others can read and learn also, even if they never comment. And, I am glad that it all helps build his legacy, otherwise he would not be doing it. MP, your comment brought all of this to mind, I am thankful for that as well. 💕
Thank you AV. I wholeheartedly agree with everything that you said. 💕
Honoring my feelings has been something that I have been personally working on. Acknowledging them and listening. It kind of sounds cheesy but for me it was something that I was neglecting so for me it is a big deal.
Not cheesy at all, i have been doing that for 25 years, very slowly until I arrived here. Feelings have value, they just aren’t allowed to drive.
MP, I don’t think you are. I’m not the expert, but some of the recurring fly-bys have an arrogance that they simply cannot conceal for very long. Some of them don’t even try to conceal it: I don’t want to summon anyone by naming names a la Beetlejuice, but if someone can’t even be bothered to change that creaky old avatar and thinks no one will notice….
Also, you have shown considerable understanding that depending on culture, dumping narcy parents can be a lot more difficult than dumping a narcy romantic partner. I think that is only realistic.
Ah ha! I’ve proven myself by having changed my avatar. LOL On a serous note, I agree with your comment in whole.
Thank you Violetta and BC30. Glad I regularly change my avatars. 😊
MP, I rotate the same 2 avatars (the 2nd was a fruitless attempt to get WordPress back to sending me notifications–it worked until it didn’t).
I meant people who try to sock-puppet HG or the Tudoristas, but regardless what they’re currently calling themselves, they:
1. Have the same arrogance and lamentable prose style;
2. Can probably be identified through IP addy at HG’s end;
3. Use the same, tired, early Windows Gravatar.
Let us not summon such by naming them. They regularly promise never to return–and then they do, promptly commencing to trash both our genial host and all participants. The ultimate KTN Hokey-Pokey.
Yup I know who you’re talking about. I don’t think I have seen her for a while. But I haven’t been around that much until recently these past weeks so maybe I just didn’t see when she showed up. I agree about not summoning the bad spirit. 😊
MP, I don’t think you are a Narcissist especially if you passed you ED.
These Narcissist don’t know what they are when they come across here especially Mid Rangers they are hard to spot, and can seem friendly and polite. They actually think they are the victim in all.of this. We take a chance when we comment back to someone. I wouldn’t worry about it though. We came here to learn and educated ourselves so right now that is all that matters.
Thank you Eternity.
You are so welcome hun!
I pondered this a lot through the years, and it seems to me that HG doesn’t throw anyone off just for existing and being a narcissist.
Unless they broke forum rules. Jeopardizing the integrity of the blog, wrote a lot of ad hominems etc.
Seagulls will be thrown off, the Pamelas, Lessers, but they are too obvious and screamish. Those are usually moderated off any internet forum, even forums where no one has ever heard the term narcissist.
Midrangers usually make it long on anyone’s comments field on social media.
There are probably ways of commenting without meeting any Midrangers either,
and I would guess that the KTN forum (because entrance has a cost) is a place like that, narcproof, they’re filtered out by HG.
Which brings me to another guess: Forums in general, the ones which are Not free of charge, have much fewer narc members, they’re filtered out by the admins.
AC, I think you are correct, there would be no reason to filter narcs out unless they broke the rules. And their presence does make for some interesting learning. The thoughts about the forums that have a cost is good though I don’t think I would get into some of the personal things on KTN that I might here. DC I would, and have, that could be concerning, I didn’t realize about narc accessibility at that point. Anyway, thank you for the comment, I appreciate it.
Wow. I read that and thought to myself that being here has a cost. Usually, a very painful cost.
It just hit me, I wasn’t 100% wrong with this comment! Yay, I am not misreading everything as much as I thought! My day just improved a bit.
Eternity,
I agree. It’s a matter of people having an opportunity to put their views across. Everyone has the right to say something.
This blog has people who are narcissists and empaths, some of which have other ‘conditions’ which can be classed as co-morbid, or even complex personality ‘conditions’. This can confuse some people who are not aware of the inner brain-wirings of these other ‘conditions’. Hence the different facets of various prisms leading to a mountain of different perceptions.
People are not like sheep, sheep have one way of thinking / feeling. People are made of thousands of genes, inherited from ancestors, some of these genes can become ‘faulty’ due to environmental circumstances, or man-made ‘mistakes’ – ie Thalidomide ‘victims’ of a man-made chemical, another example is the infamous Bubonic plague, both these changed human DNA. Those are two examples. One by man, the other by rats.
What I am getting at, is the fact, that let’s say – hypothetically – it is an example – the people who are ancestors of those who carry the bubonic plague ‘faulty / damaged’ DNA now evolved to have narcissism DNA. Those that did not come into contact with the bubonic plague would not have inherited the same DNA, maybe they became empaths. So if a narcissist and an empath mate = pot luck & depends on the strengths of DNA which will result in either more narcissists, or more empaths. That is would be determined by the LOCE.
When you add the other ‘conditions’ into the mix – it complicates the human psyche even more. Hence leading to different psychological patterns in the brain.
There will be people who do not know or understand about it. Maybe they never will, because of their brain-wiring. It’s the psychological perceptions, of which some can be ‘re-programmed’ Some cannot. Because the DNA is not present within their neurological biochemical make-up.
Dolly the Sheep was created, easily. A ‘cloned’ human is also possible. Yet the people of the world would totally be against the suggestion. However, all the Laws in relation to Human Rights etc would have to be abolished. So ‘cloning’ a human would never happen. Yet, it would be one way of removing narcissism and creating more empaths!
So, we have to make do with what we have got on this planet.
I can assure you, I am not a narcissist. I have narcissistic traits. I have emotional empathy, cognitive empathy and logical thinking, laterally and analytically.
Asp Emp,
Thank you for the explanation I found extremely interesting . You are very smart 👌
I have the triple package from HG and he explained it in detail how we as Empaths are created and evolved. I never even knew about Empaths or Narcissist until I came here. Still learning, especially on YouTube.
Asp Emp I know you are not a Narcissist. We all have Narcissistic traits.
Hi Eternity, glad you found it interesting. I am not smart, just analytical. Yes, it is really eye-opening when you find out about empaths & narcissists. Talk about brain-freeze!! Thank you RE: we all have narcissistic traits. Thank you, once again 🙂
Asp Emp, you are right very eye opening I might add. You are so very welcome anytime!
Same reason some people dunk their cookies til the bubbles stop.
Slam dunk NA!
I must confess I break my cookies into chunks and use a spoon. I wonder who was first to do such a thing.
Haha, the first to dunk and spoon might be you BC (although this appeals to me now). I wonder who first saw an egg coming out of a chicken and thought: Hey! Imma eat that! (and likely raw).
I do that. I don’t like cookies particularly but if anything has chocolate in it IT MUST BE DUNKED AND MELTED.
I’m trying to divert your attention a little bit. Chihuahuamom made a comment on the Pink Pill thread that you might find interesting.
https://narcsite.com/2021/04/17/interview-pink-pill-channel/#comment-408896
Ty, I think I commented below.
Leigh, have you had some consultation with attorneys yet? “No way around the Social Security benefits. It’s federal law.” There is always, always a loophole or things can be evaded by contract. I’m not sure hiring a narcissist is best (maybe?), but at least an attorney familiar with clinical narcissism.
Consulting an attorney is definitely the top priority. I don’t want a cut throat attorney. Its not who I am. I just want what’s mine. He can have the house and a portion of my social security benefits and I keep the rest. I’m good with that.
I understand. I know HG is best to advise on legal matters, but take my humble, little two cents for what they’re worth. You don’t need a cut throat attorney, but you do need a die hard attorney. The kind of attorney that will hold your feet to the fire and make you stake the claim you said you were going to stake in the moments you want to give up because of emotional exhaustion, because they care, not just because they want to win.
Oh, that’s a very good point because I can see me giving up because I don’t want to fight anymore. Ugh! I hope its easier than I’m thinking.
Leigh , sorry I am commenting here. Fight for what you are entitled to, but also. compromise as well it will make everything go way smoother and way FASTER !!!! Lawyers are very expensive and will milk you for what you got. The money that you will fight for in court will only go to the lawyers and then what are you left with? Just my advice and experience from my divorce.
I agree 100% Eternity. I won’t fight. Its not worth it to me. He can have the house and I keep my retirement plans. Seems like an fair and equitable split.
Leigh ,
Exactly, please take it from my personal experience. You should get half the money for the house. You are entitled to it Leigh you have been married for so long you deserve it !
Eternity, unfortunately I still have empathy for the man. I wish I didn’t, but I do. He needs it more than I do. He won’t be able to live on the money he makes so at least if he sells the house, he can live on that. It will be my way to assuage my guilt of leaving.
Just popped in from gardening and pass the popcorn please 🍿 I for one love reading a lively exchange or even an occasional dick reference cracks me up 😂
I also make a super easy Baked Alaska and now I want one 🤔
I am curious about what saying oakey – cokey means ?
I DO Love using the ol’ oakey dokey when ever I can 😜
Laughing……
Eliza- BadGrammer-OakeyDokeyUser, there appears to be a cake theme developing…
I am curious about Oakey – cokey also, haven’t heard it before, thank you for asking the question.
Is this like the hokey-pokey, a variant of the hokey-pokeym
You put your right foot in
You put your right foot out….
Violetta…. that is very funny!
Oh, I see, thank you.
Hokey Pokey: A dance performed in a circle while turning yourself around. ”
“That’s what it’s all about.”
Hokey Cokey?
Google – Wikipedia.
Googled it on youtube, some nursery rhyme. HG probably thought of a dance when he saw MP’s quick return.
MP, glad you decided to stay after all.
Thank you.
AC, I didn’t realise so many people didn’t know what the Hokey Cokey was! I wouldn’t say it’s a nursery rhyme as such, it’s a song where you all get in a circle and sing (see lyrics already mentioned in this thread), and at the chorus you all hold hands and move forwards into the circle, and then back again. Great fun at baby group! And when you’ve had a few too many! 😂
JB, that’s because it is the Hokey Pokey! 🤣🤣🤣
Pokey, AV?! What a thought! 😂
Haha, we used to sing this and do the actions at the roller rink, it was very fun. But yes, I don’t even know what a “Cokey” is, I have assumed something British.
Hello AC, apparently you got the closest answer. He was joking about how fast I came back when I said I will be on a break. So the reference on the Hokey Cokey song was a joke about my in and out behavior which I have also already done in the past before.
How fast you came back? You never left in the first place!
The addiction is real!
Eliza Bad Grammar ( haha!)
RE dick comments, stay tuned for the Sex and the Narcissist related articles. We have no problem sharing our experiences here on the blog! There will be plenty of giggles to come. Narcissism is a difficult subject, sometimes we need some humour to break it up a bit I think.
I chose baked Alaska on purpose. It’s supposed to be notoriously difficult to cook, far far beyond my league!
I’ve seen a few of your comments on various threads. You have a great sense of humour!
Pleased to meet you Eliza.
Ease back on the baking paraphernalia.
“Ease back on the baking paraphernalia”
Haha, ok ok, just playing!
Nice to meet All of You Ladies and Gent or Gents …💗 one last Baking reference PLEASE …lol
(Edit from HG : That’s a negative on the baking).
That post and the recipe was a mess – I blame the little dicks … I think you can piece it together …lol
Hahaha! Love the edit!!
I get tired of baking references, feel like I’m not enough about my own stove, so I am relieved of your rule, HG.
HG approves.
Same. I ‘should’ cook more but I don’t have a kitchen easily accessible and I don’t love it, so it doesn’t happen.
That edit made me laugh, didn’t see it at first.
😂 am I in the Dungeon ?
Eliza,
Are there pictures of cakes all over the walls? Chicken feathers on the floor? Then yes.
Eliza-Nothingbutrouble:
Are you hearing piped-in Celine Dion?
I cant tell TSeeker – there is baked Alaska smeared all over my face and in my eyes ….
Eliza,
Hahaha! I belly laughed at that. Xx
Yes ! Violetta 🎶 Neaaaaaar, faaaaaar, wheeeeeeeerreeeeevvveerr you aaaaareeee🎶
It’s reverberating on the stone walls!!!
Eliza:
You been BAD.
As a DE and discerning Cougar extraordinaire, I’m a huge fan of dick references and IRL, of dick pix 🤭 “Things my dick does” — Google it.
BC30, that’s hilarious! I have never thought dicks were the best looking part of any man! Thank you for the google idea, I need to remember to use it more! Lol!!
I mean, men must have a sense of humour, they have a whole bodypart living its very own life.
Hahahaha!!! Another Cat, that is the best comment ever!! Love it!!! And so true!
Another Cat
Brilliant!
AC, RAOFLMAO!
Lmaooo Another Cat!!
Truly. There is a lot of variety, some more handsome than others. 😁
Haha, I’ve not noticed that!! Will have to pay more attention!
Lol …. I agree – why do some men think sending women a pic is a good thing !? Esp on Instagram ?
Haha, your updated user name is hilarious! 🚫
BC30,
Will Google later just finishing my jumbo hotdog.
“More mustard?”
“Why yes, thank you!”
Haha! Apropos. (Make sure you’re not drinking anything when you view.)
When did we pass 24 million?
Probably this thread haha. Well done and onward to 25!
NA, it was around a week ago or so. Yes, congrats are due.
Chrissy T analysis.
Woo hoo! Let’s all move on to dessert.
I So Agree 😈….pass the 🍿
I haven’t listened yet, but I’m going to guess lower mid-range. She knows she needs a facade, unlike Trump, but she can barely scrape one together.
A Karen!! Good call
DO NOT miss HG’s seriously entertaining 2 part analysis of C. T now on Youtube!
HG
I would like to speak if I may, to the subject of having “friends” here and the occasional accusation of there being “cliques”.
I do not consider myself to have “friends” here as I do not interact with anyone here off blog (despite many requests) as I find your advice with regard to that prudent, and I do not believe that there are “cliques”.
People may gravitate to and interact with people that they determine to be like-minded and who will are perceived as being open to discussion, but I do not believe that constitutes being “friends” or part of a “clique”. Those who use these terms don’t seem to apply it to themselves if people agree with them. Funny that.
I am responsible only for my opinion and not those who are perceived as being my “friends” because we have had congenial conversations previously. I also do not expect “allegiance” or anyone to come to my “defence” if there is disagreement and have stated as such previously.
I think it unfair to paint pictures with these terms as they are the perception of someone else and it is beyond the control of any commenter that people will gravitate to them for banter or agree with their comments. I also think it detrimental to the blog to have newcomers believe this to be the case when determining whether or not to engage with others in commenting.
If you find this comment unfounded or unnecessary I understand it will be deleted.
HG,
I am aware that my sister has insulted you with comments that she made, please accept my apology on her behalf.
You also sent me a very decent and explanatory comment, where you quite rightfully wanted me to back up everything that had happened. When I contacted you on the night I became aware, I was furious with my sister for what she had done. I still am. But I had to weigh up the situation as it is and the fact that she did what she did when she is fully not herself, I had to let it slide. Knowing her true character before she has effectively spiralled out of control, would she have done the same, I don’t think so, at least I’d like to think not. And very much NOT using someone else’s username. I respect the fact that you gave great advice and allowed me to comment further.
The sense of betrayal from what my sister has done, is very hard to accept. I treated her very well in my home and that fact that she did this against me, is hard to accept. But it is a big lesson learned, and not one easily forgotten. Once a narc, always a narc. We had an intervention with her last night. I just couldn’t have her in my house any longer. My eldest brother has taken her to live with him. She is out of control and the only person that can’t see it is her. We have also closed down all of her accounts and one of my sisters has taken control of all her personal and financial affairs. We are contacting her doctor tomorrow about the best course of treatment that can be provided to her to get her back on the straight and narrow.
I understand if it is too much for people if I am commenting on this blog again, and as such if people don’t want to comment with me, I will get the message loud and clear. I am aware that a number of commentators suggested that I was a narc also, I can see where they might have gotten that idea, but I am a long term commentator on this blog and I have never insulted any other commentator on this blog, I along with other people have defended some commentators and I have also defended yourself alongside other commentators on this blog. But, if you feel that the ‘mark’ was overstepped HG, and you would prefer for the sake of other people’s feelings and reactions that I don’t comment on here anymore, I can understand that and I will not do so. Either way I will respect your decision HG.
Thank you, HG.
Best, DB.
You are entitled to comment like anybody else DB, within the parameters of the rules and any additional stipulations that I may make to maintain order in this place.
HG, I have not responded to any of her recent comments because I had hoped she would contact you by email to cover the matter privately rather than put it on various threads on the blog. Doing this by email would have offered some ways of sign-posting to support that the family need. Maybe the family ie the brother and DB herself (together) can do an audio consult with you to obtain your expertise and guidance to assisting with the issues they are currently experiencing.
Having said that, it is good that they have taken some course of action, especially in relation to accounts / personal & financial affairs. It is also good that they are reaching out to communicate with the doctor, however, does the doctor know enough about narcissism to be able to help the patient in question? Is the doctor qualified enough to be able to advise / treat the patient who has narcissism and the added difficulties involving alcohol?
Hence my suggestion of an audio consult with yourself with your experience and knowledge, and the recent occurrences, in my opinion, you are the best person to assist this family to moving forward. I understand that with the complexity of what the family have at present, it may require more than one consult, yet in the longer term it may well be worth the investment on their part.
Once again, thank you for your time, HG.
Asp Emp,
Thank you for your comment.
Best DB.
Duchessbea, from my being on KTN blog, having obtained what I needed to do for myself and achieving what I aimed to do for myself. I now can apply my logic to be able to offer support to others. I can also apply my own personal experiences, my understanding to your situation.
I thought about the whole ‘matter’ and went through the emotions of it all too. Then I came to a decision. Hence the comment I sent directly to HG, with the hope that you would also see it too.
I don’t know if you read my comment on the recent ‘The 10 Obligations of the Empath’. I wanted to reach out to you and I did, indirectly.
Logically, it makes sense for you to consider what I suggested and communicate with HG (not to talk about the comments as such, but about the way forward for your situation at home, your family’s situation). Again, it is up to you how you wish to proceed with your situation within your family. You and your family matter more than what had been said previous to today’s comments.
Do this for yourself, your family and in turn, everyone here on this blog (including HG) will feel we are continuing to do what we are all here for – not to allow narcissism to take over our lives (mentally or emotionally).
HG,
Thank you for your comment. I might take a short break from the blog, to let the dust settle a little bit after everything, and out of respect to other people.
Thank you HG.
Best, DB.
I see that it already has but it’s entirely a matter for you.
DB
I said nothing during these exchanges because there was a lot to process and some confusion, so I observed. You are not new here and I did not remember taking exception with your previous comments or them being of the tone in the recent comments that caused such offence, so it gave me pause. People can and do however change or go through phases while here so one can never be too sure. One thing is for sure – time tells. You have apologized, and my feeling is that if things are as you have explained about your sister and your heightened ET and are now back to normal, that will be reflected in your interactions going forward. For what it’s worth – I remain willing to interact presently while time reveals the circumstances and your explanation to be either borne out or disproven and your apologies genuine.
NA
NA,
I can understand why you would view it like that. If I had not been involved in the thread, I too would have taken a very similar viewpoint whilst observing the interaction going on.
Thank you for your comment.
Best DB.
Everyone,
I am aware that there are two different threads running in the commentary section of this article. I am mainly referring to the people I commented with, but also if anyone from the other thread has read and was offended by comments posted under my username but not written by me, I apologise to each and everyone of you.
Also, if I missed any comments that had been written on different articles and I have not apologised to people directly, I am apologising on behalf of my sister for any offence caused to you.
Thank you.
Best, DB.
DB,
I do feel bad for you if your sister ended commenting under your name. Narcissist have a way of getting into our information.
I have had similar experiences in my past so I completely understand. Please don’t worry people who are on here are complete strangers so no need to worry . You have done more than your share by apologizing, and that is all is all you can do. You have done your part. Now go ahead and enjoy the rest of your day.
Eternity,
Thank you for your lovely comment.
Best, DB
You are so welcome hun.
TS & Asp Emp,
I have read your latest comments on here and by all accounts that is a very kind and logical way to view them. I too would view them in the same way you have. I agree with everything you have said and in all fairness you approached the situation from the correct standpoint and I know if I had not been involved in that thread but was reading it as a bystander, I would have approached that thread from the same viewpoint.
There was no need to think you were fuelling the fire with me, I was in a heightened state of ET both at anger at what my sister had done, and anger in seeing her in a vulnerable state and her telling me that you were all being verbally abusive towards her. I have had space and time to reflect since I last commented on here. My sister has now gone to stay with my eldest brother. To be honest, I couldn’t keep her in the house anymore. I just felt so let down by her. I just can’t trust her. Perhaps after she receives the help that she needs, perhaps I could be open again, but wary at the same time due to the fact that she has in a way betrayed my trust, but also the fact that she is a narc. As we all know, once a narc, always a narc.
On reading the responses, the first time, I was very much in a heightened state of ET and wasn’t reading or looking at things from a logical stand point. It did come across like she was being attacked in the comments. But having had time to reflect and taken a bit of time out, I have had time to go back at look at everything she sent from the past few days last week and I now see that she was the one who was causing all the aggro and I also see that you were just responding to the manner in which she had written which is fully understandable.
I had allowed her to use my computers in my house in good faith, but I didn’t stand over her to watch what she was doing. I never would have thought she would do something like that. Not least because she is my sister, but just out of sheer decency on the fact that she was staying in my house, and I told her to make herself at home and I gave her permission to use my computers. If it had been the other way around, I would never, ever do that to someone else. In a sense, I suppose some of my heightened ET was that I had felt awfully betrayed by my sister in what she had done. It portrayed me in a very bad light, and as I too am the same as you and other people on HG’s blog, I know what it feels like when someone behaves like that. It is not nice. I felt awfully let down by my sister.
You are both and anyone else are fully in the right in not wanting to communicate with me again, but I just thought you should know the full story. I am the real DB.
DB
DB,
This has been a strange exercise for me. A real mix of instinct, cadres, schools and learning. What I have learned here on the blog facilitated my identifying the comments written by your sister as those of a narcissist. I was sure, but I’m not a fan of calling it for reasons stated in my previous comments.
Then you yourself joined the thread. My instinctive reaction was that it was you, the real DB. I could tell the difference. Or, I believed I could tell the difference and spoke up to that effect.
The problem is that your sister was commenting close to the times you were. I believed I could feel the difference between the two of you but I can’t swear to that, not online. The issue for me is not what your sister said, you can’t be held responsible for that and have no need to apologise for her. The issue for me is are you and ‘your sister’ one person?
How many articles have we read about the various faces of the narcissist? “More faces than a town hall clock”. They shift, change, mirror, project and deflect. They provoke, charm, pity play, triangulate and withdraw. My ensnarement was online. Demonstrably my instincts were of absolutely no use to me there. I called it right with the online narc to begin with. I did see. Then I gave benefit of the doubt and kept doing so, I could never get a clear picture. It was constantly changing. So for me, in all honesty it’s very difficult to see this situation clearly. Online is my biggest weakness. I am well aware of that.
You do sound and feel like you though DB. Now you do. Today. As well as a few times previously. Instinctively I believe you. Logically I have been taught not to. Perfect! Clear as mud then!
I feel for you in the situation you are in. To see comments like that under your name must be awful. To try to explain and get people to understand that this is you again, the real DB, must be incredibly frustrating.
This place is a support you likely need, especially given the situation with your sister. I think you should remain on the blog and continue to comment.
TS,
Thank you for your kind comment. I do have a twin sister, it wasn’t her, it was one of my older sisters.
I might take a break for a little while from the blog. This was a hard lesson to learn and I think the sense of betrayal after I treated her very well in my home, is the hardest thing to accept.
Many thanks again for your comment.
Best, DB.
DB,
It’s only normal that you would expect your sister to respect your privacy. You were offering use of your home and trying to help her. The assumption is that this would be recognised, appreciated and respected. We assume others will behave as we would and it’s very sad when this isn’t the case.
There is no recognition or genuine gratitude from a narcissist. Even one who is a sibling. That’s not your fault. You feel betrayed because betrayal of trust is exactly what did occur. You are a kind hearted person and deserve to be treated with respect. Use the blog and the materials available here to ensure you are not betrayed again.
TS,
That is a very kind comment.
Thank you.
Best, DB.
HG,
I feel it is best that I turn off from the blog. People are getting the impression that I am attacking them when I am not. I would never do that. I never came onto this blog site to do that. I came to learn like everyone else.
My ET is heightened because of everything going on with my sister and I’m worried about her.
I want to thank you for your advice and assistance.
Thank you HG.
DB.
Hello DB,
I just want to say that I admit at first I was wondering if you have a multiple personality disorder. But now I think I believe you. I can see my mom doing that to me and think it’s the most hilarious thing she has ever done. Especially if my mom have been seeing me listen to HG’s videos etc. I am sorry about your experience. You do sound different than your sister. And I know this whole thing is extremely frustrating. I can’t even begin to think how I would be able to handle that is I was you. Hopefully things get better for your family and wishing you well. Take care.
HG, thank you for your email. I could send you an email privately and explain the whole situation but to do so, considering the messages I have read so far, is like running away and trying to hide. I have nothing to hide from and as such, as my sister used my Username and not her own in doing what she did, I feel it is only fair to respond on the public forum.
I am highly disgusted at the behaviour of my sister, and the fact that she did what she did using my Username. I don’t condone what she did at all. There is no excuse for what she did, but I think I should make you and everyone else aware of most of the facts.
My sister is a Lower Mid Ranger. She and I are pleasant to one another attending family occasions, being sisters but other than that, we have nothing in common and if we were not sisters, we would not associate with one another.
My sister has been married for the last number of years. She and the other half (most definitely an Upper Lesser) always portrayed themselves as the Mr. & Mrs. Perfect. The Perfect Couple. Anyway, to cut a long story short, with all the lockdowns that we have had, she found out that he had been having an affair with her best friend behind her back. When she confronted him about this, he kicked her out of the house, and she is currently sofa surfing between mine and my siblings houses. She has been lashing out at everybody. Her tongue is sharper than a razor and her words are vicious. They are currently going through a very acrimonious divorce. I could go on, but I think you get the gist.
I don’t in any way condone what she did. I have made it very clear to her that it was unacceptable what she did, and the divorce is not an excuse to do what she did. The response I got, I will not repeat here. It was actually my sister after she drank a vineyard dry yesterday, that informed me as to what she had done. Otherwise, I would still be non the wiser and she would still be posting comments here, there and everywhere and using my handle name in doing so. I am very annoyed by the fact that she used my handle name to do what she did. I have spent most of last night and today, apologising to a number of people on various different sites about the comments that were made by her using my handle name.
She is currently halfway through yet another vineyard tonight, her behaviour is off the wall even for her. I know she is in a lot of pain and I understand that, and she is lashing out at everyone because of it. She cannot accept or handle having found out what she did, and going through the divorce with a complete bastard, Each day she seems to be getting worse. This was the final straw for me. I have called a family meeting this weekend because an intervention is very much needed.
DB
DB
Reading this thread, I haven’t even seen the other one, I do not envy your situation. To say the least. When they lose their primary source, either through divorce or death, some become hellish vitriol for months.
Another Cat,
Thank you for your kind comment. It is very true what you say. They also don’t listen to reason or want to accept any help you try to give. But hopefully with all my siblings this evening, she will have to listen to what we all say. It is not going to be easy but she needs a helping hand to help her get back on her feet. She is my sister and we will do everything we can to make sure she is okay.
I’m not sure I understand why you used that tone towards TS, and it doesn’t seem like you’re going to respond to HG’s email? All communication with you ends here from me too.
DB
But if it is the case that another person (your sister) wrote those comments in your name, then I am really sorry about your situation, and also relieved that your brother is now taking over so she stays with him for a while. All the best to you and family.
Duchessbea,
Duchessbea, HG has requested email clarification for a reason. Please follow any directions he has given to you.
Is your email secure? If so think about past communications you might have had with HG and reference them in your email. Or, if possible reply to him via these old emails. I suggest that you also inform HG as to the account name used by your sister. As moderator on this blog HG should be offered the courtesy of being made aware of this so that he can take his own view and any action he deems necessary. Your sister has violated your privacy and should understand that this has consequences.
TS,
I will look after my sister in the best way I know how, as she is currently not thinking clearly and is all over the place and literally gone off the rails. She is currently in a lot of pain and anguish with what is going on in her personal life. Yes, she is a mid ranger, but she is still human and can’t handle being betrayed by both her ex and so called best friend. I am not about to hang my sister out to dry for your or anyone else’s amusement.
People go through things in life, and when they are at breaking point they can do things that usually they would not do. As she has so much upheaval going on in her life, I am not about to add to it. Her health and wellbeing is more important to me. My siblings and I are trying to help her as best we can. This evening we are having an intervention with her. I don’t think it will go well. But she has spent far to much of this year drinking herself into oblivion. We have told her she needs to watch her drinking, but it is just getting worse and is not good for her. She needs some kind of treatment preferably for alcohol and to help with dealing with her personal life. We are going to try to get her into a rehab. Her ex is making her life a living hell with the divorce and it is not a nice situation for her to have to deal with. She is dealing with it the best way she knows, but drowning her sorrows everynight and lashing out at people is not helping.
Everybody goes through things in their life. Some people can handle things, other people can’t. TS, if you can message me back and tell me that you are perfect and have never done anything stupid or wrong in your life then we can discuss this further.
DB
DB
A good idea is to respond to HG’s email he sent you,
trolling someone else’s account, like your sister apparently did, is very serious. I agree with TS on that part.
Duchessbea,
Thank you for your response. No I am not perfect. Far from it.
I did not ask you to hang your sister out to dry here on the blog for all to see, or for my amusement. I asked you to email HG with her user name so that he could review this privately and take any action he deemed necessary.
You have stated that your sister is a narcissist and is using this blog as a means to hone her skills. By definition then she is not using this blog as a means of support in any way. Therefore, the loss of the blog would make no difference to her whatsoever. It would benefit you to reveal her identity to HG if your own identity had been taken as you claim. It would benefit the other readers here not to be subjected to her comments.
My request was phrased very carefully. A narcissist would view it as a threat to control. An empath would view it as a means to resolve the situation. I did this purposely for my own peace of mind. You have responded as a narcissist would by rejecting it and turning the tables in my direction.
I assume you have also rejected HG’s offer to communicate privately via email to resolve the situation.
I have learned something here so many thanks for that. When I say ‘Understood’, I should stick to ‘Understood.’
There will be no further interaction between myself and Duchessbea in any guise she might take on the Narcsite blog.
*Super like*
BC30
I super like you too.
Apart from when you are armed with a pool noodle.
Then I’m a bit scared.
haha 😁
👍👍👍👍
What has BC30 done with pool noodles?
Violetta,
Weaponised them! 😱
If she does it. Suggest deluxe flamingo.
Truthseeker6157:
I prefer Doc Martens at 10 paces.
Violetta,
Ahhh, ‘bother girl’ boots!
Thanks, TS, for that. I trust that HG will do whatever is right for all concerned. Chat with you soon x
*Super like*
Thank you 🙂
I got the raise! I got the raise! I got the raise! 🥳 Thanks for your good luck wishes.
BC30, Woo Hoo !!!! Yay ! Well done ! 🙂
Congratulations BC30!
(They were probably scared)
Kidding! That’s great news. Well done 😁xx
BC30, Congratulations!!!
🎉🎊🎉
The House of Tudor awaits! The joggers are amazing, if your looking for a celebration purchase!
Ty 😊 to everyone and indeed, AV. I may get a Bananas of Empowerment hoodie. 🍌
BC30, a hoodie is on my clothing needs list also, I am holding out for an Emotional Sea one, it is my favorite. Or a Geyser one, depending on if that is an option, or if any Geyser stuff is released.
Asp,
Yes, most definitely, chat soon xx.
TS, hope you’re ok x
“Some people have a tendency to accuse people of narcissism prematurely. It can be traumatic for someone who has already gone through so much verbal abuse in life and went here to learn and understand what they experienced in life.”
Yes, it can be damaging, we have seen it before, and we would do well to remember that it should not be contingent upon our feeling of either kinship with the person making the accusation, or coloured by one’s feeling of the recipients deservedness because of previous personal interactions and/or perceptions of that person. Being annoyed by or not liking someone’s comments on here will see us having opinion, but does not give us the right or expertise to affix such a damaging label. Nor do we have to uphold it because of any admiration for the accuser or prejudice against the recipient.
NarcAngel, I very much agree.
Hello NA, if you are referring to the past where I defended an accuser from receiving what I felt was an extreme attack by many commenters defending the one being accused, I stand by my actions. There are information about the accused person that you don’t know and only I have personally experienced since I accepted her reaching out to be my friend outside of this blog. FM1T talks about masks slipping out, let’s just say I had a similar experience although I am not confident enough to say it’s narcissism, it was enough for me to see a strong pattern in my personal interactions with the accused. HG was not aware of it at that time because I didn’t know that I could have brought it up to his attention. But I gave him evidence that I have outside of this blog and he has been respectful about it.
MP
There are other instances of this happening besides the one you refer to, but your perception here is that people were defending the accused when the exception taken by many was that the accuser was not felt qualified or entitled to arbitrarily assign that label due to their merely being annoyed by the accused’s comments and conduct on the blog. It became apparent through comments there that there had been contact outside of the blog between you (that HG strictly warned against on many occasions and this is a good example of why). You say here that the title should not be used prematurely (it was in that case) and that it can be traumatic. I agree. Yet you aligned yourself with the accuser (you said you admired their honesty) because of your personal and negative experience with the accused. You have admitted elsewhere that you liked a comment that you didn’t agree with (narcissism being brilliant) because that person had been nice to you. My feeling is that allegiance should not enter into an opinion given.
In any case – it is a good reminder to heed HG’s warning that people not interact outside of the blog.
Also NA, I did not make the accusation nor upheld it. All that I did was defend the accuser from a very harsh attack from several people as I don’t enjoy seeing anyone outnumbered and viciously dehumanized. Especially when I recognize that the evidence she presented on red flags and patterns are so true. Especially since I have had my own experience with the accused where she behaved in an unacceptable manner when I didn’t do anything to her. I am not explaining this to convince you since you already made up your mind and you don’t care about the truth. HG has my evidence and he knows what happened and that’s why I can still comment here. I am explaining it to anyone who might be influenced by your misrepresentation of me.
All the alarm bells are ringing for me now.
“Information about the accused person that you don’t know and only I have personally experienced since I accepted her reaching out to be my friend outside of this blog” – that sounds like manipulation to me.
Would you have defended this person if she hadn’t taken you aside the way she has done? Why did she reach out to you specifically? Did she have a reason for doing that? Have your attitudes to other posters changed since this has happened? If so, why? Since it feels like we’re in a Court of Law (with accusers and accused), it seems an ideal time to start asking a few questions about this commenter, and what their intentions might be.
I see NA has commented on a warning HG has given around contact outside of the blog. I wasn’t fully aware of that, but it makes sense.
If you are a ‘target’ and if you are being manipulated, now is the time to find out, MP.
Hello LET,
I understand your curiosity. HG has already handled the manner. Basically a bunch of us were following HG elsewhere and I was contacted by the accused commenter who offered friendship to me. I was very happy and flattered and we connected through Facebook and exchanged phone numbers. Then things eventually didn’t turn out well. I feel bad that HG has to clean up the mess that we caused for not adhering to his advice. I don’t really know how much more I can share. I am not open to getting to know other people in the blog after that and also have been trying to be less friendly/transparent with my comments to people (as much as a Geyser can). But in the end no real harm was done to me except feeling threatened for a little bit and wondering if I should ask our local Bishop if there’s a lawyer in our church. The threat didn’t materialize because I didn’t do anything wrong and so the accused person could not possibly carry out the threat she made against me.
MP:
I don’t blame you for being tempted; I’ve often wished I could meet various Tudorites for shopping, horseback-riding, puppy/kitten-cuddling, and of course, drinking (preferably in the Haworth pub where Branwell destroyed his liver).
In addition to friendships possibly turning sour, there’s always the danger that information might get revealed, accidentally or otherwise, to a stalker ex. As Narcsite gains publicity (I’ve seen it mentioned in more than one blog covering the RF), the likelihood increases that someone might deliberately send a lieutenant here to try to suss out an escaped ex.
But again, I understand the temptation.
The rule against exchanging information here is a sound one and will never be changed. The clear instruction not to interact off blog is also made for the soundest of reasons. Every time people have failed to follow this instruction, it has resulted in problems for them and others. The emails I receive bear testament to that and they are detailed. I know my kind. Pay heed.
@violetta
Yes I understand the temptation too…
I have no one else in my personal life who is obsessed with narcissism.
so it can come across like I think “everyone” is a narcissist to people who do not understand narcissism. Even when it comes to people attributing certain behaviours to other things besides narcissism.
This guy said online that catcalling could be rooted in male biology… I said no, cat calling is a boundary violation and is rooted in narcissism and narcissistic traits.
I see things very differently now because of what I have learned about narcissism.
I also understand why it is a risk to interact outside of the blog
And I’m sorry to hear that MP was threatened by someone who used to frequently interact here.
Thank you Witch and Violetta. For me the blog was like a Twilight zone world where people here know about my past that most people in my real life don’t or didn’t know. I never confided in anyone throughout my childhood about my experiences with my mom because I didn’t think anyone would really understand and I also didn’t want to throw my own mom under the bus even though majority of people who got to know us more knew that my mom was different and even abusive to me. My culture also allows parents a lot of allowance to behave in a very dominant way towards their children. I don’t go around telling people in my present life about the hardships I had in my life because that was never the energy I want our interactions to be. This blog has been like a Twilight zone world where I am able to share things about myself no one else know so I was attached in a way towards the commenters here and I just have to remember this isn’t the real world. Last night we went to a fundraiser dinner which was the first social gathering we went to since the pandemic. Everyone was so nice and pleasant but I was thinking, it’s such a good feeling to be around them but I have no idea about their life or past or whatever situation they have been through or are going through and yet these are the faces that really genuinely make me feel not alone. These are the people that are really part of my life. And sometimes it is healthy to put that kind of boundary between real life and social media life.
Gosh, MP, that must have been scary! I can also understand the temptation to take things offline. There have been many, many times that I have wished the rules were different, but on reflection, I’m actually glad they aren’t. Many of us here have suffered as a result of online interaction with a narcissist, and what I love about this place is that that shouldn’t happen here. I love the anonymity. We can offload and share our experiences, without anyone ever knowing who we are outside of the blog (I find it much easier to open up on certain things, knowing that.) The only problem is, though, any narcissist coming here could use that anonymity to lie through their teeth and then mislead you into God knows what offline! Anyway, I hope you are ok, and am glad nothing major came of it in the end x
Hence why you do not take matters offline.
Thank you. Just like what HG has taught us in some of his articles. Narcissists love social media because they can create their persona or whatever much easily without much accountability etc. How can we even know if the stories shared are really true? In real life fore example, I go to church and I see someone and I form an opinion on how they carry themselves and then my husband shares a history about the person if that person is nice or a crook and then I get more corroborating info from other people and from all of those I can form an opinion. Online you get judge on how you are able to connect with the people but it doesn’t mean that people really care about you. Some do and some don’t. It’s not always easy to differentiate it. I’m glad nothing like that happened to you. Take care!
MP, I’m not sure if your comment was meant as a reply to mine or not, but I will reply in case it is.
Yes, online is a tough one as there is so little to go on, compared with real life, as you said. And also the written word is very much open to misinterpretation, which can also lead us to build up a possibly false picture of the person with whom we are communicating! I often rely on feeling, getting a sense of someone, but don’t trust it as much now. I haven’t been threatened by anyone online (thank God), but I have been taken in by somebody online, I came to trust them and they turned out to be a liar. I didn’t see it coming at all, I genuinely thought I was a better judge of character, and it threw me completely that I could get it so wrong. It did give me a kick up the arse though, taught me to practise what I preach – we spend so much time educating kids on the dangers of online interactions, then go and ignore the rules ourselves because we think we are ok, we know what we are doing, etc. But in the end, it could happen to any of us, and we are only human, I guess. But lesson learned here and regularly shared with anyone who will listen! X
Sorry that happened to you JB. You are right about practicing the precautions that we expect kids to have as adults. I also had a discussion with my husband on this issue and I agree with what he said. Online allows people to create an illusion and it’s not reality. Sometimes we can meet genuine people but the most of the time the real friends are the ones that are really part of your life. It’s weird when you meet someone online and then texts you all day nonstop when you haven’t even seen them in person. My real life friends don’t even text me all day or first thing in the morning to say good morning because they have their own lives too and yet they are stable and consistently there through the years.
MP, you’re right about the all-day texting when you haven’t even met in person. It didn’t feel weird at the time though! Felt nice to know someone was there and wanted to be there. Sad really, that we can’t have a friendship like that without it turning out to be a red flag!
Hello JB, so true. I think the anomaly was that the frequency of the interaction is not parallel with the depth of the relationship. I remember my phone buzzing with text messages all day and I had to stop what I was doing to answer. My husband asked me who was it that I was always talking to and I told him a friend from this blog and he asked me if it’s normal that I’m spending so much of my time on someone that I have never even met. That’s another thing, my husband is a Normal, so if you have Normals in your life it could be helpful to get feedback from them because even if they may not be aware of narcissism they might still feel or see things that strike them as weird (red flags).
Hello JB, I forgot to add Red Flags, if you haven’t read it yet it is so extremely helpful.
MP, my husband did exactly the same once, enquiring about how much I was talking to people online, but I just viewed it as his attempts to control me (based on other events as well) and didn’t take too kindly to it. But the fact is, he was right! So I agree with you wholeheartedly xx
Thanks for the book recommendation! I haven’t read it yet, but definitely want to!
You’re welcome JB. The reason I recommended the book is because we can’t always rely on Normals for red flags so it’s best the we know them ourselves. We were watching The Secret and my husband was so touched with the words of wisdom and how the two fell in love and I told him no, I’m seeing all kinds of red flags here and my husband said “I know but can I just enjoy the movie?”
Hello Lickemtomorrow, I understand your curiosity. HG has already fixed the matter. I don’t think that you have met the commenter I was referring to. But basically HG doesn’t recommend that we make a connection with commenters from the blog outside of it. And it’s for our protection. I’ll be taking a little break from the blog. I hope you the best for your learning journey and thanks for our interactions.
Hi MP, thank you for clarifying a little more around the situation which sounds like it could have become much more serious for you. Rather than prying, I just wanted to raise my concerns for you, and also the impact it might have had on the blog. I’m glad it has been resolved to everyone’s satisfaction, and thank you for reminding me of HGs protection which he institutes to followers and commentors on the blog. That is very reassuring. Especially after concerns which have been raised again (over identities and intentions) over the last couple of days. It is a good idea to follow HGs recommendations, and it’s also hard not to respond to someone reaching out to you. I understand it’s only out of a desire to do what empaths do that we accept such invitations and I have no doubt your heart was in the right place, MP. The problem comes when someone else’s heart isn’t. That being said, I see you have decided to take a break 🙁 I have thoroughly enjoyed our interactions here, and have learned so much from you. Thank you, too, for all you have shared up to now which helps us all, and I appreciate your well wishes. You have a beautiful family to enjoy and hopefully a lovely summer to look forward to as well. As it’s just a little break, I will look forward to seeing you again, and hope for continuing good news in terms of your healing journey <3 xox
Thank you Lickemtomorrow. You have always been very kind and I always enjoy reading your thoughts and experiences. Thank you for being patient when we disagree. I am thankful for our interactions and I just want to say that you are a good mom and thank you for the pieces of advice and assurance you kindly gave me. ❤️❤️❤️
MP
Despite how it may seem from out interactions and your feelings about them and me, I do wish you and your family the very best and hope that you continue to stay safe.
NA
NA,
I just saw this message and even though I said I am on a break I just want to say something about your well wishes.
What would have been genuinely kind is for you to just retract your false accusation that I was here in the blog arguing while my mom was dying. I have said it so many times that it wasn’t true. I went to my home country alone to take care of her, left my husband and kids here in the US, didn’t meet with any friends out of fear I might spread them TB, and I was the only person who took care of her while I was there to give my cousins a break. There was no internet at her house and I was not even able to Skype with my husband and kids in some days because the only way I got internet connection was when I was doing laundry at the laundromat inside the mall that provided free WiFi. The only time I went active in the blog again was a few days after my mom already died. I was at the funeral and was trying to avoid painful thoughts so I decided to actively comment on the TV show that HG was having people analyze because I needed a distraction. When you tell me with so much conviction in a public forum that I was too busy arguing here while my mom was dying and that people told me to take care of my mom which never happened because she was already dead, I cannot even fully describe how wrong that is. Now people here believe that I have let my mom die because I was too busy arguing in the blog. How can you even wish me well after doing that and without even retracting that and insisting that you were right and I was wrong about what happened. I would never prioritize going on the internet over taking care of a dying person, let alone my own mother. So unless you retract that, I don’t regard your well wishes as sincere.
MP, I wanted to say that I am sorry to read that you lost your mom. Take care x
Hello LET, I have reread your comment and want to clarify a few things:
* the accused person was not the one I defended. I defended the one making the accusation by identifying red flags.
* the person I defended didn’t change my attitude towards the blog.
I am uncomfortable identifying the accused person and I am also in NC with her so I didn’t want to use her name. But you don’t have anything to worry about because HG has been protecting commenters in the blog and we just have to listen to his recommendation to not connect outside of here.
MP
Let me state this clearly for you and for everyone:
I do not believe it to be the case and did not state that you did not care for your mother and ignored her to be on the blog. That is your (incorrect) interpretation.
The references (and notes of concern from others as well) were in regard to you being on the blog and actively engaging in highly emotional exchanges that were upsetting to you during your PERIOD OF GRIEF, which can encompass a period of time other than the immediate death.
These are some of your comments and attest to the fact that you were active and continued to pursue blog discussion that upset you during your PERIOD OF GRIEF and NOT that you were neglecting your mother’s care. They indicate effort to stay involved when was not required of you – you chose to participate. Someone other than me even commented to you that they couldn’t imagine giving a crap about being on a blog when their mother died.
“I am in a Taiwan airport right now on my way home”
“Oh and before I get accused of lying. I did say earlier that I might not have internet because I’m travelling but the bus I’m on has WiFi that’s why I’m able to reply”
“I was gone because I was visiting house to house and WiFi is scarce here”
“I ought now I’m staying with my cousins that I haven’t seen since we were children and I’m here in the bedroom typing this instead of being with them in the dining room right now where I can hear them chat”
“I just got home from a very long flight and drive. I was exhausted and my kids are all over me so I don’t have time to check in til now. I sent a quick reply earlier as well”.
These all appear to indicate you felt some sort of urgency or priority to stay active on the blog, so later on a different thread when you approached it as people not standing up for you and being mean to you etc, I thought that untrue and unfair and regarded it as playing victim in that moment because it was your choice to be there. Thus my comment that you could have got off the blog.
You interpreted “when your mother was dying” as during her immediate care and death. I was not. I was referring to the period of grieving. My apology for not using the term period of grieving. The phrase did not come to me in that moment. I did not think for a minute that you (or anyone on the blog) would interpret the words: when your mother was dying as me indicating that you were furiously keying away on a blog at your mother’s deathbed and ignoring her needs. Anyone who thinks that has cherry picked and not considered the aggregate of my comments.
I will say it again:
I do NOT believe that you did not care for your dying mother or attend to her needs.
I hope this clears up things and ends this for you (and anyone else looking on) so that neither of us are misrepresented moving forward. I stand by my genuine wishes for you and your family whether you accept them or not.
NA
These were all after my mom died. I was being accused of being a narcissist by your friend. I didn’t have my family to support me in my grief and I was being attacked left and right by your friend and accused of things I didn’t do such as gaslighting and twin lines of defense.
Your previous comments said that “you were urged by others to stick to what was important in attending to your mom”
“Later you referred to these things upsetting you at a time when your mom was “dying”.
“poor me, my mother died when I was arguing about it (we’ll stop arguing and leave the blog), poor me.”
NA you said that I am prone to misinterpreting you. If you keep moving the goal post and changing the meaning of what you said of course you will be misinterpreted. You used the word “dying” which implies she was still alive. Instead of admitting you are wrong you revise what you meant.
But glad your false accusation is cleared up.
Also NA, you pulled those sentences out of context. I was accused of silent treatment when I wasn’t able to respond to the one accusing me and I have explained there that I am not a narcissist doing a silent treatment as I was accused of.
Like I said, I was grieving, I had a massive headache and I couldn’t process my emotions, I didn’t have my family and friends to support me at that time, and I was mentally and emotionally wrecked at that time while I was being accused here as a narcissist which also implies that I don’t love my own children, my husband and my mom that passed away. The whole thing was too much for me to handle and I obviously did things that were not wise. But like your advice above, attaching label is damaging and your friend here had no professional license or credentials behind her to passionately call me as a narcissist. But there was no passionate objection from you.
Anyway, that is it for me as well. I would like to move on. And honestly revisiting it is very overwhelming for me. And you have accused me of playing the victim but you know what, when you speak up for yourself that is not playing the victim. It’s standing up for yourself.
NA, All that I can say is that you are entitled to your personal truth. I am as well and my experience with that person was very toxic and the only reason I have sent HG evidence was because another commenter had an experience and he wanted to gather evidence to protect commenters here. It’s unfair to me that you misrepresent my reasoning as just mere annoyance with the accuser. You don’t know a lot of the important information. If you do not trust me, just stop interacting with me. But do not gaslight my experience. Just like you never apologized for misrepresenting how I spent my time with my dying mom which I actually think is very cruel. You have been very judgmental towards me. All I can say was that you were never there in my mom’s house with me in my home country taking care of her all night because she couldn’t breathe and sleep because of her TB. There wasn’t even internet in her house and yet you made the judgment that I didn’t take care of her because I was here on this blog instead of taking care of her. You can’t always unequivocally assume that your judgments are always correct.
MP
“It’s unfair to me that you misrepresent my reasoning as just mere annoyance with the accuser. ”
I didn’t say that. I said the accuser (not you) was not entitled to label someone a dangerous narcissist when THEY (again – not you as were not the accuser) were really just annoyed with the comments of the accused. The accuser then went out of their way to dehumanize others (calling them garbage etc). You offered them not outrage but admiration. If you were to be honest – you were happy to align yourself with the accuser because she was attacking someone you had a personal issue with and not because they needed defending (against the very same behaviours they were dishing out).
I never apologized to you for misrepresenting how you spent your time with your dying mom because that did not happen. That is a gross misrepresentation and presented completely out of context to what happened. You were urged by others to stick to what was important in attending to your mom and to disregard the things that were upsetting you at that time on the blog. It was out of concern for you, but you remained actively (and prolifically) commenting. Later you referred to these things upsetting you at a time when your mom was dying. I pointed out to you that you chose to ignore the concern and remain embroiled in highly emotional and heated exchanges, so it didn’t seem fair to present as victim afterword. It was your choice. And you’re doing it again here to garner sympathy and misrepresent ME and what actually happened.
You have a history on the blog of misinterpretation not only with me, but especially where I am concerned. You almost automatically assume what I say to be negative because you appear to base the message on who said it rather than what was actually said.( An example being offering admiration for name calling from one individual but labelling it vicious dehumanization from others). I have offered positivity to you and your family also, (was heartfelt in offering my condolence on your mother’s death, was genuinely happy for you and expressed it when your family got your puppy, complimented your husband’s handling of his ex, are but a few examples), but you conveniently forget those interactions and latch onto those you incorrectly interpret (btw- incorrectly interpreting something on your part does not equate to me gaslighting you) and then misrepresent me to others as uncaring and cruel. They can make up their own minds.
Don’t want to interact? Fine by me. I won’t miss having to break down for you where you’ve jumped to conclusions yet again due to your missing the message and focusing on the messenger.
This is part of what you wrote to me in that thread:
“ Poor me, no one stood up for me (untrue), poor me, my mother died when I was arguing about it (well stop arguing and leave the blog), poor me, ”
I was not arguing in the blog while my mom was dying. What you wrote implied that my mom died under my care while I was too busy arguing in the blog which was not accurate and I have explained it so many times to you but you have no empathy.
I don’t need anyone’s pity. I wa a just pointing out how callous you can be to a few of us. That is why I understood WiserNow’s adverse reaction to you because I also saw how you treated her through the years. I don’t need to prove anything to you as I really don’t care anymore what you think about me. If I was the kind of person who always strive to be pitied my husband would not be with me right now because that is what he hated the most about my MR sister, and that’s one of the reasons I categorize him as a Normal because he doesn’t tolerate people feeling like victims.
I don’t care about your perception of my history in the blog. I have my opinions on your history here too but I don’t care to spend time articulating it because quite honestly you have no meaning to me.
Have a good life.
MP and NarcAngel,
MP,
Well said. I agree with your comments. While I respect NarcAngel and I agree with her comments sometimes, I also find she jumps to conclusions and has a ‘black and white’ way of looking at things. There are times when it has been more of a ‘battle’ than a ‘debate’ when trying to ‘converse’ with her.
I am agreeing with you here because I actually know what it’s like to have parents who are narcissists and who are unwell and elderly. The option of ‘no contact’ is either very difficult or impossible.
It is a difficult situation because you are very aware they need your care and support, and at the same time you are also aware that they are slowly hijacking your life and abusing you in the process. The fact remains that they are your parent and you *still* feel empathy for them and cannot walk away, not only because you know they need you and not only because you ask yourself how you’ll live with yourself and your conscience if you don’t support them. It’s also because they are your family and you love them regardless. Love does exist and it’s not just because you are a ‘love devotee’. There is a bond and it’s real.
Having a narc parent is not an easy thing to live with. It is very difficult and takes all of your patience and goodwill sometimes, even though you are complaining through clenched teeth on the inside, asking yourself things like, “does my resentment mean I’m narcissistic myself?”…. “if I do this, they’ll only get comfortable with manipulating me even more” …. “if I don’t do this, they will feel lost and alone” …. “what should I do?”.
Coming to this blog and ‘venting’ or talking about it or commenting in certain ways *does not* mean that you are seeking pity or playing the victim or not learning about what HG is telling us. Sometimes, this blog is the only place to say what you truly mean and to try to unravel all the internal contradictions and questions you have.
In many articles and recommendations I have seen about recovering from ptsd and narc abuse, the advice is: seek ongoing reliable support from someone you can trust who will understand and validate your experience.
Not every ACON has someone they can trust unconditionally to speak with complete honesty about all the conflicting things they have going on with them. Sometimes this blog and the information from the commenters here does this for us.
Does that mean we can be labelled as ‘victims’ or as though we are seeking ‘pity’? No. It means we are working through things that are difficult that we haven’t been able to work through effectively anywhere else.
When I have had romantic partners, friends or relationships with narcissists, it has been relatively easier (not easy or straightforward – just easier) to decide to go ‘no contact’. It’s still difficult and leaves the emotional impact, however, there is not the same ‘obligation’ as having an elderly or unwell parent.
Does this negate or contradict HG’s advice? No, it doesn’t. HG informs us in a practical and effective way about things that actually work in real life. He gives us clarity and defines things in a way that makes it absolutely clear.
The thing with real life is that real situations are messy and unclear and take time to change and evolve. Parents who were born during depressions or wars, who lived through strife and poverty, who needed to migrate to different countries, or who lived through abusive family situations themselves – these are all things we have to deal with as ACONS.
We need to learn how to deal with them effectively and that is what we are doing here when we learn from HG and from the comments of others.
Hello WiserNow, thank you for your message. I agree. I hope that you have a wonderful weekend. I will be taking a break. Don’t let anything rattle you or take peace from you. Coincidentally in spite of my day starting off not in a positive way, it ended up nicely as each member of our family won a raffle prize. It has never happened to us before. Like I said, there’s real life and social media life. People behave in a terrible way in social media and can get ten thousand likes from their fans but have that same person behave that way in real life and they wouldn’t get approval. I think that erosion of empathy is not an excuse to be a complete jackass to anyone. And no one should be shamed for the way they handled their grief. It’s just a really jackass move that a person with empathy wouldn’t do even to someone they dislike. It’s so easy to do that through social media but I bet these people wouldn’t have any guts telling my husband or my relatives who were there with me at the funeral that I wasn’t affected by my mom’s death or that I should have grieved a certain way that she approves or that my grief was not genuine. So I learned to just take the things in social media like a grain of salt. Take care WiserNow and thank you for our interactions and also for being calm with our debates even though I can get heated with arguments you pull back and accommodate and so I do the same thing so we have had disagreements but we never disrespected each other. ❤️❤️❤️
Hi MP,
You’re welcome and thank you also. I appreciate our interactions too. I have found your comments to be honest as well as level-headed and open-minded. It’s been a pleasure to interact with you 🙂
Congratulations on winning the raffle prizes. That’s a positive way to end the weekend. I hope you have a lovely weekend too and also an enjoyable week ahead. Stay peaceful and calm too MP and please feel free and welcome to return and keep commenting here. Best wishes to you and your whole family ❤️❤️❤️
Good of you to allow MP to return and comment on my blog.
Ooh, HG. Quite right too, Sir 🙂
HG,
Since you have graciously reassured NarcAngel by saying you don’t regard her “conduct as being problematic to the integrity of the blog” and said she was welcome to “continue to comment as you have”. . .
. . . it seems reasonable to me that you would also welcome both MP and myself to do the same, since our conduct has been respectful of you and your blog and ultimately has not proved “problematic to the integrity of the blog” either, over and above what NarcAngel has said or done.
While I realise this is ‘your blog’, are you saying each individual must measure every sentence they utter according to whether it will meet with your approval before they feel able to say it? That’s a little discriminatory, don’t you think? I have seen comments that are much more blatantly ‘disrespectful’ of both you and the blog.
WiserNow,
Well done, you managed to breach the agreement in less than 24 hours and one comment later.
1. NA asked a specific question because she was concerned, after what I had written with regard to her style of commenting, that she might be putting newcomers off. I confirmed that this was not an issue. She asked a question, I answered it. That does not mean I then I have to write the same thing to you.
2. “t seems reasonable to me that you would also welcome both MP and myself to do the same, since our conduct has been respectful of you and your blog and ultimately has not proved “problematic to the integrity of the blog” either, over and above what NarcAngel has said or done.” Why not re-read what I wrote to you earlier, here I will repeat it for you
“To put and end to this therefore neither of you should comment to one another or about one another directly or indirectly.I am going to give you both a chance to adhere to this voluntarily. If this cannot be done, I will then enforce it through automatic removal of offending comments. No reply is required from either of you to my comment as I have made it very clear what is expected of you both. Do both feel free to comment on other matters as you wish, within the ambit of the rules.”
I will make it even clearer because evidently you missed it in your rush to once again try to point score.
DO BOTH FEEL FREE TO COMMENT ON OTHER MATTERS AS YOU WISH, WITHIN THE AMBIT OF THE RULES.
That is both, meaning both YOU and NA.
3. “While I realise this is ‘your blog’, are you saying each individual must measure every sentence they utter according to whether it will meet with your approval before they feel able to say it? That’s a little discriminatory, don’t you think? I have seen comments that are much more blatantly ‘disrespectful’ of both you and the blog.”
No, that has never been stated by me. That is your erroneous reading into the situation. Indeed you contradict your own argument because since you identify that you have seen comments that are much more blatantly disrespectful of both me and the blog, it stands to reason that there is not such diktat that individuals must measure every sentence according to whether it will meet with your approval.
. . . and by the way HG,
I am well-aware of the ‘agreement’ in place which I have accepted.
Before you or anyone else accuses me of anything, my comment here and directly prior to this are the last times I shall refer to a certain person either directly or indirectly 🤐
Ah, the last time until the next time. Understood.
Sublime, HG, sublime.
Thank you WiserNow! I have the pictures of my kids with the prizes on my IG and SP can see it because she’s there. Thankfully the other connections I made are still good but I don’t know most of their real names and I prefer it that way so I never ask or initiate. Although I didn’t mind when some revealed it either. I have been super transparent which is not a wise way to be and I have been changing that now.
Anyways, the prizes we got are pretty funny. My husband and son got two garbage cans and I got a lawn game (tick tack toss) and my daughter got tickets to play golf which nobody in our family knows how to. My friend’s husband has volunteered to go with us and teach us golf. He said he has been playing for three years now and he’s pretty bad at it but we will still have fun. So good luck to us!
Thank you again and best wishes to you too! ❤️❤️❤️
You’re welcome MP. The prizes sound cute. The golf tickets will be a fun day out for you all. I have tried playing golf a few times. It takes time and lots of practice. I found just hitting the ball properly was difficult. Mini-golf is more my game 😉
It would be lovely to see your kids with their prizes. They both sound adorable and very cute. I know what you mean about making connections outside of the blog. I don’t know or communicate with anyone here in ‘real life’. I’m not on IG either. Time-wise, I can keep up with only so much social media before I lose track of what’s happening and notifications.
In relation to you being super transparent, there are narcs (or narcissistic people) everywhere, here on narcsite and on other social media. They’re probably lurking and waiting for opportunities to manipulate and get fuel. Sometimes, the only way to learn a ‘lesson’ about how they operate is to actually become ‘involved’ in the first place in some way. As long as you can spot it early enough, you can see what you need to change so you know how to protect yourself. So, don’t feel bad about that or about being ‘transparent’. Being honest, friendly and trusting are lovely personal traits to have. It’s just that those traits are preyed on by narcs. Awareness is key.
Raising kids and home-schooling is a big responsibility and the last couple of years have been more stressful than usual with the pandemic and other things. You are doing very well and you are also a peaceful and wise presence here on the blog too. Thank you for your comments and friendliness. Our conversations have been a big welcome change to me in contrast to some of the ‘discussions’ I’ve been involved with here lately.
Have a lovely time playing golf and using the other prizes! 🙂 ❤️ xx
Dearest WiserNow,
Weekend was wonderful. I have decided I will not take a break but will not post as much. I’m interested in the current trilogy here.
Hopefully your weekend was nice too. Sometimes when things just go on circles and it’s more important for some people to win there’s no point. Like what HG said, words are easy for narcissists to use.
Also, bullies have lots of friends and they run in packs. But the friendships are not for making real connections but for obtaining power. For me my two close friends in real life here in the US is all I need because the dynamic is healthy. Online friendships are rarely genuine unless there has already been an established friendship from real life. Online life is so full of illusions.
Ohhhh the okey cokey, ohhhh the okey cokey!
You sound offended HG. Isn’t that what you taught us about narcissists though? They run in packs.
Not at all. Do explain how my comment equates to “sounding offended” I will be interested in how you arrived at that.
HG, what matters is what you believe is considered to be real / genuine. You are obviously aware of the difference / similarity. It’s perception and understanding.
That was my impression from your comment which felt like you were ridiculing and dismissing me. If I was wrong would you clarify what you really meant with your response or are you going to focus and enumerate things that are wrong about me?
“You sound offended HG. Isn’t that what you taught us about narcissists though? They run in packs.”
“That was my impression from your comment which felt like you were ridiculing and dismissing me.”
Am I offended or ridiculing you and dismissing you? Which one is it?
You haven’t explained how you arrive at the conclusion that my comment amounts to one of those outcomes. I am unable to clarify until I am able to understand how you reached the conclusion you did.
HG, I felt that your comment was ridiculing and dismissing what I said to WiserNow. So I thought that the only reason someone would ridicule and dismiss someone is if something about that person was offensive to them.
Why was it ridiculing you, you still have not explained. You have told me how it felt but you have not given me any explanation as to why.
Take this for example, “I was angry with your comment.”
“Okay but why did my comment make you feel angry?”
“Because your comment suggested that I was stupid and unpleasant, which made me feel insulted and so that made me angry.”
“Thank you. Now I understand.”
I repeatedly explain that one should go to the evidence rather than the feeling or emotion.
HG and MP,
MP,
(Comment redacted for breach of Order of No Interaction)
“ rid·i·cule (rĭd′ĭ-kyo͞ol′)
n.
1. The act of using words, gestures, images, or other products of expression to evoke laughter or contemptuous feelings regarding a person or thing: a remark that invited the ridicule of his classmates.”
Your remark felt like a ridicule to my message to WiserNow by evoking laughter or contemptuous feelings against me or something that I have said. “Ooh the okey cokey” gave me an impression of being defined (THE okey cokey) and made fun of from your expression (oooh).
HG, this would be my last explanation. I don’t feel the need to share my feelings about what you said. Maybe I was wrong. Maybe your comment was not meant to ridicule or dismiss what I have said. The expression that I said about online life being an illusion was based on the articles that you wrote about narcissists online and the illusions they create. But I’m glad that WiserNow understood what I meant. Maybe you were not offended. If you weren’t then I was mistaken.
MP, I was not offended.
I know what ridicule means thank you. I wanted you to explain why you felt ridiculed and you still haven’t. You just stated that the remark felt a ridicule and then you repeat the definition of a ridicule. You still do not explain clearly why you felt ridiculed.
“Ooh the okey cokey” gave me an impression of being defined (THE okey cokey) and made fun of from your expression (oooh).” – I am afraid that makes no sense to me whatsoever.
“I don’t feel the need to share my feelings about what you said.” – you already have repeatedly. You said you felt ridiculed, in fact you have used the word “feel” or “felt” repeatedly.
“The expression that I said about online life being an illusion was based on the articles that you wrote about narcissists online and the illusions they create.” Fair enough, I do not see how this is relevant unless you are suggesting that you believe I was ridiculing this statement of yours, which for the avoidance of doubt, I was not.
I am unable to offer an explanation because it is unclear how you reach the conclusion of being ridiculed. I gave you a clear example to help you, but evidently that was not sufficient.
Since you cannot articulate a suitable explanation we have reached an impasse and we must leave the matter there.
That’s perfectly fine HG. I’m glad we’re moving forward.
Jolly good.
HG, did you type that in twice or has your PC gone double the trouble? 😉
I do not know what “that” is as I do not see the earlier comment in the moderation pane.
HG, it was the ‘okey’ comment. No worries. Interesting that you can’t see the thread of comments at the moment you are moderating. I had assumed that such a system would afford users of blog owners to have the facility available. Alas.
HG,
If possible, can you please expand on what you meant by this? Thank you.
WN, meant by what? What I see in the moderation pane is different to what you see at the front end, I do not see the preceding comment, so you will need to refer specifically to what it is you want to expand on.
HG,
Sure, I can imagine you must have comments flying thick and fast.
Can you please expand on what you meant by saying:
“Ohhhh the okey cokey, ohhhh the okey cokey!”
…following the comment by MP to me about her weekend and other things.
Thank you.
The expression is simple enough to not require expansion and it was part of an exchange with MP which has been addressed and moved on for, thus there are two reasons whereby expansion is not required.
HG,
That’s fair enough. Thank you for your answer.
You are welcome.
Hello MP,
I’m glad your weekend was wonderful. My weekend was good thanks. In my country, we had a 3-day weekend with Monday off due to a holiday for the Queen’s Birthday. It was good to have a day off.
I know what you mean about bullies running in packs. Good luck to them – whatever floats their boats… And yes, online life is superficial and people generally feel they can say things they wouldn’t normally say in ‘real life’. So, it can be both engrossing and fleeting at the same time. I like being in these ‘forums’ though, because I still learn from them and the learning is valuable – most of the time 😉 It is full of illusions, so it’s good to take it all with a grain of salt, as you say, while learning from the things that help us. There are some things I would rather not see or hear though.
I’ve seen two posts of the “Narcissist Wife” trilogy so far. It’s interesting to see the different behaviours in each one.
Thank you for your comment MP. It’s good to hear from you and I’m glad you’re here posting 🙂
Hello WiserNow, You’re welcome! I didn’t know you are in England. I’m glad you had a nice weekend. 🦋🌸
Hello MP,
Thank you! 🦋:-) I’m actually in Australia. Because Australia is part of the Commonwealth, the Royal Family is the ‘monarchy’ for Australia too. We have many of the same customs as England, however, we are not influenced or affected by the Queen and the Royal Family as much as England is.
Thank you WN, I didn’t know that the Royal Family is also a monarchy for Australia. It’s very interesting. I have many old classmates living in Australia. I have a close high school friend there now with her husband and two kids. Both her and her husband are nurses. It looks like a very beautiful place and ideal for raising kids.
Hello WN,
I was in a hurry when I sent my first response to you. I just want to add I understand what you are saying. At a certain point though we just have to accept what we cannot change. You enjoy learning and that is what you are getting from it that is valuable. I feel the same way. And I will just focus on that. If I ever feel that what I’m getting is not as much as the things I don’t like, then I am also free to leave and go where I will fit in better. We are always making choices for ourselves and we can’t make choices for others. Take care always! ❤️🦋
Dear MP,
Thank you for your message and I hope you take care always too! 🙂 ❤️🌷
Yes, I agree, there will be different things here that we learn and take away and the ‘atmosphere’ will change depending on who we talk to or what we talk about. If we focus on the ‘learning’ aspect, rather than the conflict or disagreements, then it’s a positive experience. If we focus on how certain ‘interactions’ can benefit us rather than hold us back, then we will have an overall more valuable time.
I think it boils down to our own mindset and how we perceive things. That also comes down to a cognitive choice we can make, overriding the emotions that arise from certain exchanges. Like you said yesterday, the online world is full of illusions, and we can use those ‘illusions’ to model the way we can then react or make decisions in ‘reality’.
One day and a good night’s sleep can do wonders. I feel better today about things in general. Maybe HG’s non-interaction orders helped too. I really don’t want to continue ‘fighting’ stubbornly here. When you have had ‘fighting’ and conflict as a major way of communicating at home for many years, it is *not* the way you want things to continue. In order to learn and recover, the opposite is more helpful. I have found that having calming and ‘joyful’ exchanges are much more welcome. The thing is that ‘conflict’ is like familiar territory. It takes practice and a conscious effort to walk away or ignore provocations without feeling like I am ‘defeated’.
Please know that you have helped me a lot with the messages we have exchanged over the past week or so. The peaceful and kind interactions in contrast to the arguments and bickering have been a very welcome change. You have been like a port in a storm 😉
I looked into what HG meant with the ‘hokey cokey’ comment. It’s a child’s nursery rhyme that goes:
You put your left foot in
You put your left foot out
You put your left foot in
And you shake it all about
You do the hokey cokey and you turn around
That’s what it’s all about!
Ooooh the hokey cokey
Ooooh the hokey cokey etc etc
What he meant by that, I’m still not sure. I commented to ask him to expand on his comment and my question is still in moderation. Maybe it’s the narcissist’s envy at someone else’s contentment . . . ?? 😉
Thank you again for our conversations MP. I have enjoyed them and I appreciate your kindness, thoughtfulness and time very much. It has meant a lot to me.
Also, following your other messages here, I am very sorry about your Mom’s passing and I send my thoughts and condolences to you. Our mothers are a huge and important part of our lives and they probably have the biggest emotional influence on us than anyone else. When they are gone, it affects us deeply. I’m very sorry for your loss ❤️❤️❤️
Thanks again MP. You take care always too. All the best to you, your children and your whole family ❤️🦋xx
I’m glad I was able to be of help to you. You did help me with dealing with my mom before by sharing your mindset about your mom. Thank you for your kind and encouraging words and more happiness to you. Take care. ❤️🦋
Hi again MP,
I just had a brainwave about why HG said the ‘hokey cokey’ comment. It takes me a while sometimes. . . 🙄😬
It’s about staying on the blog after saying you want to leave etc etc
Actually, I think HG should know that you are not the only one who feels like leaving the blog at times. It can be a very hostile environment with very narcissistic and derogatory comments. These things are not enjoyable or comfortable for an empath. It feels like you have to wear combat boots and carry a can of narc repellent spray just to stay here. I’m not surprised many of the empaths that used to comment quite a lot are now quietly watching from the sidelines.
So, I totally get you when you say you want to have a break. Empaths feel like they are under siege simply by getting out of bed and facing another day sometimes. It is not the way anyone wants to live their life.
HG and the other narcy people here don’t seem to ‘get’ that. To them, hostile words and circular arguments are probably ‘normal’ and even necessary and they see nothing wrong with them.
Then, if an empath decides to ‘fight back’ – watch how quickly the label of either ‘victim’ or ‘narcissist’ gets thrown around . . .
Anyway, I just wanted to say that staying on a blog run by a narcissist takes tenacity and patience and sometimes it feels like too much hard work, so I totally get why people need a ‘break’ from it, even though it is a helpful place to learn and understand the narcissist.
Most people access this work to learn and do not comment.
The vast majority of comments are not derogatory at all nor are they hostile or argumentative. A simple reading of the threads demonstrates that. It is not a hostile environment at all. There is not a lot of “narcy” people here, you mean people who disagree with you, thus you label them as being in “The Tudor Gang”.
There is however a particular individual who has repeatedly and continues to cause problems and when somebody takes issue with that, this individual then maintains they have done nothing wrong and that it is the other person who has caused the problem. You.
Have you noticed how you are the one who is at the centre of these recent arguments? Have you noticed that you are the one who continues to “stir” matters up?
More people thank me for the maintenance of a constructive environment than complain it is not constructive, but you do not like me being praised do you WN? You have a problem with the provider of this information receiving gratitude for enabling people to understand and achieve freedom. You have a problem with the owner and moderator of this blog, moderating HIS blog in accordance with the rules and the very fact that it is my blog, not yours, but mine. You are unable to see it but your comments evidence this repeatedly.
Let’s have some evidence. I have moderated 70 comments so far today. Of those 70 comments, two would be deemed as argumentative and labelling towards somebody else on the blog. That is 2.86% of comments. That is a minuscule percentage.
Oh and both of those comments came from you.
Nobody is making you remain on this blog.
HG,
(Comment redacted – indirect breach of ONI)
Love from a Tudorite x
HG,
In my comment, I said, “It can be a very hostile place with very narcissistic and derogatory comments”. Note I said *can* be a hostile place…
This doesn’t mean it is *always* a hostile place.
You want evidence, okay, just yesterday, (redacted – direct breach of ONI)
Then later on, there were numerous comments going back and forth about ‘dicks’. It was all supposed to be humorous and light-hearted – just a lot of fun being had about how funny and entertaining dicks are.
To me, (redacted – direct breach of ONI) Then having people laugh and joke about dicks as though what had happened was just a big laugh made it even more of a hostile environment.
Nobody cared how I felt about any of that. You didn’t. You were happy to redact my comments quicker than anything else.
You keep on saying that I’m the one being ‘argumentative’ while I see ongoing hateful comments like the one I’ve described. The alternative seems to be that I should shut up and be quiet about anything that affects me that I find objectionable. Either that or leave.
I don’t think I’m being that unreasonable or argumentative. I have seen plenty of insulting things said either to me or about me. I am not about to stay quiet and just roll over and let that happen.
1. I am narcissistic psychopath and you expect me to care about how you feel. You have been reading this blog, yes?
2. “You were happy to redact my comments quicker than anything else.” – how do you know? You do not see everything in my moderation pane, comments may be removed wholesale and you would not know. You exhibit your mentality again of it all having to be about you.
3. “You keep on saying that I’m the one being ‘argumentative’ while I see ongoing hateful comments like the one I’ve described.” Again, have you considered why that is happening? I have invited you to reflect on this previously.
4. You are welcome to express your views (as I have told you twice (at least) before) within the parameters of the rules. I have not told you to shut up, but I will correct you. I have told you if you do not like it, you are free to leave. You are also free to leave.
HG,
Have you invited anyone else to “reflect” on their statements and behaviour as vigorously as you expect me to?
As you said, it’s your blog and you are a narcissistic psychopath. That doesn’t mean that people should accept insulting or abusive behaviour because you are the moderator and you don’t have the capacity to care.
I have learned from this experience and I will reflect. I will be more ‘prepared’ from now on.
Thank you.
WN,
Ah, the “Whatabout” defence. I wondered when that would appear. This is not about other people reflecting, it is about you reflecting because you are the individual who is currently repeatedly stirring matters up. I have invited other people in the past to reflect on their behaviour and I have done so in a polite manner just as I have done with you.
“As you said, it’s your blog and you are a narcissistic psychopath. That doesn’t mean that people should accept insulting or abusive behaviour because you are the moderator and you don’t have the capacity to care.” Yet you repeatedly expect people to accept it from you, ah but it is not abusive when you do it, is it?
HG,
Nothing I have said or done has been as vindictively and continuously abusive as this.
You are a narcissistic pyschopath though, so ongoing vindictive abuse is to be expected.
WN,
1. It is not vindictive. You so not see it do you. You are causing people to react in this manner because of your repeated behaviour. You are deflecting.
2. It is not continuous. Breathing is continuous. You are exaggerating. There have been intermittent responses, yes, using some robust language however this has been in response to your behaviour, not unprovoked. That is the difference.
3. “You are a narcissistic pyschopath though, so ongoing vindictive abuse is to be expected.” – wrong. I am not abusing you. You are the individual who is causing problems here. You assert your views, people disagree and you should expect that to happen and in a robust manner at times, as per the rules. You know the rules, those things I keep referring you to, but you keep failing to have regard to.
HG,
Ah, so now the gaslighting and blame-shifting…
Serious question: would you like me to leave?
Nonsense.
No gas-lighting at all.
No blame shifting but I am allocating blame and all you are doing is increasing your culpability.
H G
I find it interesting as this back and forth continues it is you that is being called vindictive and abusive?! You have been nothing but professional. You have had to be assertive, but it is your blog and nothing else seems to be working.
Indeed FM1T, it demonstrates the skewed approach being adopted, which is clear to see.
Speaking of bullies, HG, have you thought of writing about Chrissy Teigen? As a full-grown adult, she was engaging in middle school-style hazing of child-bride Courtney Stodden and a fashion design show contestant whose career she apparently blackballed. She’s said bizarre things about Toddlers -n- Tiaras, showing a disturbing lack of boundaries. I’m pretty sure she’s a narc, but I’m not sure where she’d fall on the Tudorscope.
I am ahead of you
https://youtu.be/-J9Qw8zNy9c
I think it’s pretty crystal clear that she’ a narcissist.
Hi MP,
I think so too. A few years back, I saw photos of her with her husband John Legend. They were on the red carpet or at an event. She was all over him, that is, sitting in his lap or with her arms around his neck or something like that. He was not really reciprocating much but just standing/sitting there and smiling at the camera.
There was something about her poses and expressions that made me think, “hmm, she is very keen to flaunt herself and play it up big time for the cameras. She looks like the cat that got the cream and there are no boundaries when it comes to how her husband is feeling.”
From those photos alone, I got the strong feeling she was a narcissist. It looked like she was using John Legend as an appliance.
When I listened more carefully to the words of John Legend’s song ‘All of Me’, it’s quite interesting too:
What would I do without your smart mouth?
Drawin’ me in and you kickin’ me out
You’ve got my head spinnin’, no kiddin’
I can’t pin you down
What’s goin’ on in that beautiful mind?
I’m on your magical mystery ride
And I’m so dizzy, don’t know what hit me
But I’ll be alright
My head’s under water, but I’m breathing fine
You’re crazy and I’m out of my mind
‘Cause all of me
Loves all of you
Love your curves and all your edges
All your perfect imperfections
Give your all to me
I’ll give my all to you
You’re my end and my beginnin’
Even when I lose, I’m winnin’
Logically speaking, if that’s not an anthem to ’emotional thinking’ and ‘devaluation’, I don’t know what is. It sounds like he is determined to convince himself that they really, really, truly love each other and are a good fit together.
It’s one of those very heartfelt, romantic songs that sounds very loving but isn’t really when you look at it more closely.
Hello WiserNow, I haven’t given that song a thought but you are totally bang on. It’s emotional thinking and addiction. I don’t know anything about John Legend as a person but whenever I saw them together I always thought he looks like a nice guy and I have always thought that she is the dominant one in their relationship. He is probably an empath. There were things that she said in public that made me think that she isn’t a nice person. She has an aggressive demeanor while he is so laid back. I used to wonder why the nice guys pick the mean girls, now I know it’s the narcissist-empath dynamic. Although I would have to say personally for me a nice guy like that would normally not be attractive to me. And they probably wouldn’t be attracted to me either because they would prefer a more narcissistic woman. You’re absolutely right how the song sounds so different now that we understand about the narc-empath dynamic.
* I think it’s crystal clear that she’s a narcissist. The other comment got sent out while I was editing it.
Ah, the tag-teaming of the disgruntled. Predictable.
Yes, please DO tell me about how hard it is to be an ACON as if I were not one and have suffered just as you and other ACONS have. Possibly in ways that you can not imagine.
Tell me all about how the type of “support” you approve of is effective for all and should strictly be adhered to.
Tell me how there is respect in telling someone to fuck off when they dare to add an opinion that you don’t approve of.
Tell me how how it’s a battle to converse with me when you have lashed out at others when they dare to consider my comments or when they have the audacity address YOUR behaviour.
Tell me how the blog is a place to “say what you truly mean”. But only certain people. Those you approve of. Not me.
Tell me more about how I have black and white thinking while displaying exactly that yourself.
Tell me why the ongoing support of the majority of the people here is not enough for you that you need me to change the content and delivery of my comments. Why you can’t say what you want, let me say what I want, and let people decide for themselves.
While you’re at it – tell all the people who my comments do resonate with and who don’t agree with you that they are/were wrong and to ignore how they feel. Go ahead – invalidate them.
I did not allow the narcissists that I was enslaved to to break me or control the rest of my life once free, so I certainly won’t be allowing those who have no such luxury or right now to attempt to control my freedom of expression and how I conduct myself.
I would have thought surely as an ACON that you have had enough of, and can understand that, but perhaps not. Perhaps not all ACONS (or targets of any kind for that matter) are interested in your one-size fits all members only jackets.
NA, thank you for writing your comment – it is a very powerful one that resonates with me from an ACON’s view.
“Tell me more about how I have black and white thinking while displaying exactly that yourself” – exactly.
An ACON’s experiences can result in some having B&W thinking, including me.
Laughing…..”in your one-size fits all members only jackets” – brilliant!
Thank you, NA. Thank you for speaking out loud in your style. I commend you on that.
NarcAngel,
I said what I wanted to say – to you (not every commenter here) regarding this one thread (not everything you have ever said).
There is no need for me to browbeat you or chase you away by continuing to drive my points home. Once is enough.
Your Narc knoweth what is needful for you, before you ask him.
🙏
NA,
“Being annoyed by or not liking someone’s comments on here will see us having opinion, but does not give us the right or expertise to affix such a damaging label.”
It’s interesting that you say this. You felt free and entitled enough to imply that some commenters here are happy to wear the “victim hoodie”. I also remember you referring to particular ‘victims’ as “low hanging fruit” and joking about them. There have been other instances where you haven’t held back in saying exactly what you thought about someone.
You affix damaging labels when it suits you or even just to have a laugh at someone’s expense.
Also. . . “Nor do we have to uphold it because of any admiration for the accuser or prejudice against the recipient.”
When it comes to “admiration” for HG, you will enter any thread or conversation and treat anyone with any comment you perceive as negative towards HG with the intent of debating, accusing or smearing them. You call them ‘gulls’ and worse. You feel that it’s okay for you to do this, yet you deem that others should refrain from feeling any kind of “kinship” based on previous interactions and/or perceptions.
Again, you feel free enough to do it when it suits you.
Let’s have some accuracy here.
1. NA is not the only one to refer to those interlopers as gulls. To level that accusation at her solely is a misrepresentation. Plenty of other readers reference them in that manner and to single NA out is inaccurate.
2. “When it comes to “admiration” for HG, you will enter any thread or conversation and treat anyone with any comment you perceive as negative towards HG with the intent of debating, accusing or smearing them.” – not accurate. NA does not enter any thread, there are plenty of threads where people have made adverse comments against me and NA has not commented. Indeed there have been occasions where NA has questioned me (two which spring to mind the use of the label Ultra being one and her reaction with regard to the entry requirements concerning Dark Cupid, the latter of which I regarded as a disproportionate reaction). There are also instances where she is supportive of me, as other readers are.
3. You, WN, have engaged in the practice of expressing your opinion (which you are entitled to do) and when someone else counters your opinion (which they are entitled to do) you cry foul. You evidently do not see that you do this as it has been pointed out to you before and you fail to see this obvious behaviour. As I have written many, many times before, if you (meaning anybody on this forum) express an opinion understand others may disagree with you and that does not mean they are “attacking” anybody and nor does it mean people are not allowed to express their contrary view.
4. NA is far from fallible and you have drawn attention to such fallibility on previous occasions, however, like other long standing readers I have the measure of her from many comments and consultations. Certain commentators do not have that benefit and therefore they find her often direct and sometimes ribald comments irksome or difficult to accept which results in conflict. It is an understandable but unfortunate response to people not having taken time to get the measure of another reader. However that is her style, it is not from a position of nastiness. It´s no coincidence that those who are generally better disposed towards to NA tend to be longer standing readers who have grown accustomed to her manner. Similarly, it is unsurprising that more recent readers who are not as accustomed may find her approach “too much”.
I see certain people do adopt entrenched positions with one another. I see that certain commenters are favourable to other commenters purely because they have been supportive to the original commenter. B supports A, so A reciprocates towards B, even when B has written something which does not merit support. I see certain commenters appear as the metaphorical second punch. I often make a note in my daybook showing “Y time – X has commented, expect A to appear and comment in Z fashion” and they invariably do because I see the dynamic between certain commenters.
I have a simple solution. You and NA evidently do not like one another. I see from the exchanges that neither party is going to afford the other leeway. Instead, understandably so, each party will feel moved to always respond to what the other has written and this will never reach any resolution. There will just be a back and forth. I have allowed this previously in the spirit of debate, but there comes a time when it serves no meaningful purpose.
The best outcome for you both is to avoid one another going forward.
To put and end to this therefore neither of you should comment to one another or about one another directly or indirectly.I am going to give you both a chance to adhere to this voluntarily. If this cannot be done, I will then enforce it through automatic removal of offending comments. No reply is required from either of you to my comment as I have made it very clear what is expected of you both. Do both feel free to comment on other matters as you wish, within the ambit of the rules.
HG, it was good to read your comment, including on a number of things you have said here. Thank you.
@Asp Emp Me too! Cheese on f*cking rice! HG had to call a draw as if we were in a school yard.
HG’s rules are sound. No misbehaving!
BC30, laughing……. school yard?!?! More like animal farm !…… the foxes in the chicken pens, the wolves in the sheep pens, the snakes in the horse pens, the seagulls in the cow field…….. the washing line of red table-cloths surrounding the bull pen – one escaped and rampaged through the china shop…….
(Asp Emp goes to look up the meaning of the word “misbehaving”…….).
I did score highly on Machiavellian of the Dark Triad 😉
Yes, I agree. HG’s rules are sound.
Asp Emp,
You sound positively fuelled up. No sign of ’empathy’ at all. Seems like this is all providing you with plenty of triumphant exuberance. . .
“. . . the foxes in the chicken pens, the wolves in the sheep pens, the snakes in the horse pens . . .” ???? …………what does this mean? What do you know that others don’t?
“I did score highly on Machiavellian of the Dark Triad 😉 ” …….hmm, is that a “tell” by any chance?
Very interesting.
Ah-The-One-Who-Seriously-Cannot-Fucking-Help-Themselves-Goes-To-Show-How-They-Are-Still-None-The-Wiser,
I thought directly aim at you, I would grant you one of my wonderfully, beautifully and intelligently smart-mouth comments that you so richly deserve. Then I thought, nah, if they can’t swallow my deliciously delivered sense of humour, they can suck it instead. Suck my non-existence DICK until my “triumphant exuberance” chokes you and frees you of the ‘poison’ that is apparently and evidently obvious.
I DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT HAVE TO EXPLAIN MYSELF TO YOU.
I am fully aware that you have an AGREEMENT (not that you adhered to it for long, surprise, surprise) – to ‘rein’ in your ‘attitude’ towards another commenter. Now, I had assumed incorrectly that the ‘agreement’ would have made you think. Wisely.
What was it you specifically said to me previously about PERCEPTIONS?
I rest my case.
Asp Emp,
You need to take a few deep breaths.
Temper temper …
Well… you went from ‘laughing’ to shouting obscenities quicker than it takes someone to say ‘heated fury’…. 🔥😳
For the record, no-one asked you to “explain yourself”. No-one said I had an ‘agreement’ with *you*. Actually, the agreement in place isn’t about reining in my attitude, as you put it. If anything, I think you need some kind of ‘agreement’ in place to prevent the shouty and vulgar display of entitled anger.
In the words of Another Cat…. I don’t care for your tone towards me Asp Emp. I also don’t care for your rude and escalated angry outburst at what was a reasonable reply to what you said in your previous comment. Why so angry?
Still-None-The-Wiser,
What is your real problem with me?
You seem to only see in your “view”.
Perceptions, perceptions, perceptions. Wedge it into yourself.
Now, I am telling you, nicely. Stop your ‘attacking’ me. It is really a waste of HG’s time.
HG,
Do you freely allow comments on your blog like the one Asp Emp wrote to me? Is it acceptable to you that she/he said:
“…if they can’t swallow my deliciously delivered sense of humour, they can suck it instead. Suck my non-existence DICK until my “triumphant exuberance” chokes you and frees you of the ‘poison’ that is apparently and evidently obvious. ”
To me, this is extremely rude and inappropriate and quite frankly, highly disrespectful to not only me, but others here and the blog in general.
I have been treated in an ongoing hostile way by a few people here after saying ‘f*** off” once and then apologising for saying it. In response, I have had several comments like this directed at me – which is much worse in my view – without an apology and no-one bats an eyelid.
As the moderator, what is your view on Asp Emp’s comment?
WiserNow,
You have been giving as good as you get, the exchanges between you and Asp Emp bear that out. You are both “at” one another, albeit in different styles. As the rules state, I allow robust exchanges, this is one such exchange.
However I will once again solve the problem. You both do not like one another, the exchanges bear that out. Asp Amp and you are given an Order of Non Interaction. You are not to comment to or about one another, either directly or indirectly forthwith. This is to be addressed voluntarily and if neither party complies, I will enforce it through automatic deletion of offending posts. Through this Order you will not have anything to complain to me about with regard to her comments and she will not feel compelled to comment in the manner she has. Problem solved.
“I have been treated in an ongoing hostile way by a few people here after saying ‘f*** off” once and then apologising for saying it. In response, I have had several comments like this directed at me – which is much worse in my view – without an apology and no-one bats an eyelid.” – perhaps you might reflect on why that might be. That there is a reason why people have responded to you in the way they have.
HG, thank you. I am genuinely pleased that you have given the Order.
Noted, utilise the hiatus it affords to reflect also.
Thank you HG.
You have made your views loud and clear. Apparently, it’s okay to say things like:
(Comment redacted for breach of Order of Non-Interaction)
I will gladly adhere to an ‘order of non-interaction’ with Asp Emp. I don’t want anything to do with her/him.
(Comment redacted for breach of Order of Non-Interaction).
Congratulations, you breached this Order of Non Interaction even faster than you breached the first one.
HG,
I hadn’t agreed to your ‘order’ before making the above comment, so your ‘redactions’ were premature.
Also, you are censoring my comment when I had a right to reply.
Still, it shows me where you stand on vulgarity and offensive comments. It also shows that you are far more lenient on some than others. I *do not* “give as good as I get”. I would like you to keep that sentence in this comment please. I have never been as vulgar or offensive to anyone here.
1. It was an Order and as I explained I expected voluntary compliance, which you failed to provide hence I immediately applied the mandatory redaction or removal of any direct or indirect reference to matters which have been decreed as forbidden. Nice try and trying to get around the Order (again).
2. You have no right to reply. Identify where you have such a right. (See Rule 17).
3. Incorrect. I am not far more lenient on some than others, far from it. (See Rules 5 and 6) You do give as good as you get but once again you are unable to see this. I keep pointing your behaviours out to you but you are singularly unable to recognise them. I explained, if you care to re-read that you give as good as you get although it is done in different styles. I would invite you to look at the number of times where you have created friction with other commenters, just because you do not use vulgar language does not mean that you behave yourself in a conflict-free manner.
HG,
You may want to take the same heavy-handed approach and “conflict-free” requirement with regard to the narcissistic and trolling commenters here. That will benefit the blog in the longer run.
Thank you for telling me how to run my blog. It doesn’t require your instructions.
I didn’t state it was conflict free (again see rules 5 and 6 however you have repeatedly created conflict. I allow an exchange of views, you’ve been able to express yourself just as they have and I’ve called a halt to it. The others have been parties to the elongated conflict have been treated exactly in the same was as you. They have both received ONIs as well and they are not continuing to cause an issue.
HG,
It was merely an observation, and a well-meaning one.
WN
I don’t care for your tone towards Asp Emp. Empaths write jokes sometimes.
HG, is it within the forum rules to, as a regular pattern, throw in wedges against the commenters who have many friends?
It is not a rule that a commenter should throw “wedges” (potato? cheese?) against a commenter who has many friends.
HG & Another Cat,
HG,
…actually, it was a door wedge… followed by one of my wedge-heeled sandals… closely followed by a lob wedge (which is a golf club)…. lol 😂
Another Cat,
Would it help if I said it with a deeper voice, maybe…? Like a baritone or contralto, rather than my usual mezzo soprano…. ?
Just kidding. As far as I can see, there’s a mix of ‘tones’ here…. and Asp Emp is quite capable of a number of different ones too….
You’re right, Another Cat, empaths do write jokes sometimes… whether they have an abundance of ‘friends’ or not….. 😉
Still-None-The-Wiser,
I am all for flame-filled wedges. If you don’t mind, with extra hot sauce, thank you.
HG, thank you for clarifying Another Cat’s question.
Another Cat, thank you. It is greatly appreciated.
Another Cat,
I agree. Empaths do write jokes sometimes. Often to try to diffuse a situation.
I also agree with HG’s reference to taking time to get to know other readers. We don’t all communicate in the same way. Xx
@WN
You slyly accused ASP for being a narcissist by saying “you sound positively well fuelled.”
I don’t want to speak for anyone but that could be why she’s annoyed?
That wasn’t a reasonable comment. If you had a problem with what she said or you couldn’t understand the joke you could have said that without accusing her of being a narcissist
Witch, thank you so very much for your words. Much appreciated 🙂
Witch,
Perhaps you should look at all of the comments that have either been said to me or about me – plus the ‘orders’ that were not only my doing – plus the comments that have been redacted prematurely where I haven’t had a right to reply…
Then ask yourself who should be “annoyed”….
Christ al-fucking-mighty!
Could we get back to important things like James Spader and (forgive me, HG) hair?
Shouldn’t they have been happy? We should have thought ourselves in heaven! And now, guess what your good children were doing? Isabella—I believe she is eleven, a year younger than Cathy—lay screaming at the farther end of the room, shrieking as if witches were running red-hot needles into her. Edgar stood on the hearth weeping silently, and in the middle of the table sat a little dog, shaking its paw and yelping; which, from their mutual accusations, we understood they had nearly pulled in two between them. The idiots! That was their pleasure! to quarrel who should hold a heap of warm hair, and each begin to cry because both, after struggling to get it, refused to take it. We laughed outright at the petted things; we did despise them!
Violetta,
Do you still have that recipe for Baked Alaska?
TS, don’t you need a lot of eggs for that recipe? Sugar too? Without my looking up the recipe to see what else is needed to bake one…..
@Violetta Yes please! Mr. Spader is yummy, not sure I want to ask if he is a narcissist. I did just send a list of Show Me the Empath and await results.
BC30, thank you for the ‘image’ of James Spader on a plate with an array of sauces on the table 😉 (laughing)……. I’d be surprised if that actor is a narcissist.
I thought he’s one of r the 11 that Mr. Tudor said were empaths on his 10 Famous Empath’s videos.
Is he? I didn’t hear him on YT. I may have missed him? I’ll have to go check the purchased materials.
These were freebies he did. I thought Spader was one of them but I could be wrong. It was the videos where he talked about Keanu Reeves, Kevin Bacon & Hugh Jackman.
Now, I simply must know! I just sent a list of Show Me the Empath, so if he’s not on a freebie, I will add to my next SMtE.
Truthseeker:
That was somebody else. I have never made baked Alaska.
Violetta, I have just replied to TS. I’ve never baked Aslaska either. LOL.
@Asp Emp,
🎶Trollin’ with my homies🎶 😂
BC30, laughing. Singing along with ‘rain ray’ – I’ll listen to it at some point 😉
Violetta,
I can’t cook to save my life. I believe recipe sharing is outlawed on Narcsite. The Baked Alaska comment was thrown in as a reference to, “If anyone wanted to share recipes, now might be a good time to do it while the moderator is distracted.”
Was responding to your hair style theme.
(No good if you have to explain it!)
TS, giggling….. “outlawed”. Yes, HG has been doing a lot of ‘yanking’ of the ‘ropes’ recently – quite right too. Kudos to him for that.
James Spader -UMR ELITE
OW, thank you for that. So he is? That would explain his really good performance in the film ‘Secretary’. He probably uses the red pens in his life behind the scenes……
This is on a list. I wasn’t going to tell, he is likely hot to me because of his narcissism. Hoping it is not so with all the ones I like. But so far, no luck.
I thought there was leeway in my suggesting we all continue to comment as we like. However, I agree.
HG
“Similarly, it is unsurprising that more recent readers who are not as accustomed may find her approach “too much”.”
I believe you are raising this as a possibility, but please do let me know if it has, or does, become a matter of concern for new readers and/ or yourself. I have no wish to harm the atmosphere or integrity of the blog in any way and there is a simple solution that I can and will effect if that is or becomes the case.
Thank you,
NA
It is simply a possibility based on the occasional reaction that has been witnessed NA. I don’t regard your conduct as being problematic to the integrity of the blog, so continue to comment as you have (save of course with the recent adjustment mentioned earlier).
It’s interesting who people gravitate towards / listen to when they first arrive here. What we need and what we think we need can be two very different things. They can differ on different days. If everyone offered the same thing then those needs would not be met as effectively in my view.
Sometimes, we need a listening ear, sometimes the experiences of others help confirm our own and sometimes some of us need someone to tell us to get the hell back up and fight. We’re all different. Personally I quite like the ‘hell back up’ approach.
Just for info, in case it’s ever required going forwards.
“If everyone offered the same thing then those needs would not be met as effectively in my view.”
Agreed.
TS6157 “It’s interesting who people gravitate towards / listen to when they first arrive here.” Isn’t it peculiar how when one of us is in need that we empaths here, as a whole, know just what to say and who needs to say it?
BC30,
😘xx
HG,
I agree with this.
Asp Emp and TS,
This is Duchessbea. I became aware yesterday evening of comments being sent under my username, that was not me sending those comments. Comments have been sent under my username on this site and other sites for quite a number of weeks from what I have traced back so far, without me knowing about it. I contacted HG last night and told him, and I have updated my a/c security and changed passwords.
I am fully aware as to who has done it and I won’t make any further comment on it as they are also on this site. I don’t find it funny or amusing as to what was sent. This was done purely to embarrass me and also to hide behind my name to say what they really think and get away with it, without being held accountable for their behaviour.
Both of you along with myself, are long term commentators on HG’s blog, I have exchanged comments with both of you before a number of times and I would never send either of you or anyone else bad or snarky comments.
I am sorry that both of you received comments like that, but please know, it did not come from me.
DB
If this is correct, it is incumbent on you to email me and provide me with evidence that supports your assertion with regard to the identity of the individual who has allegedly done this and clear and cogent evidence which demonstrates that they have done this.
It’s correct. That was Duchessbea. It feels like her.
I agree with your request though HG. I think that’s wise.
TS, I wanted to reiterate my thanks to you for standing by my side. You’re such a good lass. I cried last night and again today. How many others have been impacted, it is not just me – everyone else, I am also empathising.
BTW, do you have a blunderbuss anywhere? 😉
Asp Emp, what my sister said was appalling. She should not have said those things. I have just read your comment. I am so taken aback and in shock by what you just said. A blunderbuss is a firearm. I don’t find that comment in anyway lighthearted. You have effectively just sent a message in a blog for other commentators to read / witness about your intention of wanting to shoot / maim / kill someone? That is a very serious and dangerous threat to make.
Have you forwarded the evidence to HG?
HG moderated my comment. Says it all really 🙂
HG, I was going to email you in relation to all the comments here and on other threads. What was left on ‘Eyes Wide Shut’ was absolutely appalling – “whoever” wrote it. I know how it would have made you think about how these words / comments would have impacted quite a number of people reading them.
In my view, should the evidence show it was someone else and not DB – then I would be inclined to agree about the deletion of as such – then again, it is your site, your blog and you have the final say.
Thank you for listening and for being here. Right, I have to finish mowing before it starts raining!
No matter what, you are still a star x
I await the evidence, should it exist.
Thank you, HG.
HG, Asp Emp, has made a comment to TS on June 11th at 15.41. At the end of her comment she asks a question of TS – ‘BTW, do you have a blunderbuss anywhere?’ with a smiley face at the end of it.
HG, I do not find that comment lighthearted or appropriate. Asp Emp has effectively said that she wants to shoot / maim / kill and has asked for help.
That comment by Asp Emp is absolutely disgusting and shocking. How many innocent men, women and children have lost their lives after a shooting by a mad person. This is wholly unacceptable HG, to make a dangerous and intentional comment like that, that has been read and witnessed by numerous people.
My sister might have made a few stupid and ridiculous comments but she never threatened the lives of anyone or made anyone fearful that they would be hurt.
This comment is a very serious, dangerous, intentional and unacceptable comment to have been made.
For a comment like that to have been aired and for Asp Emp to be allowed to have a comment like that aired, this is not the type of blog I thought it was.
Duchessbea,
1. Yes, I read the comment, It was allowed through because having moderated over 3000 of Asp Emp´s comments, I have a measure of her demeanour and I know that this was a joking reference.
2. Your appropriation of people having lost their lives through shooting, to this situation, is disingenuous.
3. To express your mock horror at this “dangerous and intentional comment” is similarly disingenuous.
4. You reference the behaviour of “your sister”. Let us for a moment assume that (a) she exists , and (b) she has been making comments using your profile on this blog. On that assumption, you are now diminishing her (apparent) conduct (“might have made a few stupid and ridiculous comments but she never threatened the lives of anyone or made anyone fearful that they would be hurt”). whereas earlier you were expressing your disapproval of it. So, she might have made stupid and ridiculous comments? Are you not sure? Which is it?
5. “This comment is a very serious, dangerous, intentional and unacceptable comment to have been made.
For a comment like that to have been aired and for Asp Emp to be allowed to have a comment like that aired, this is not the type of blog I thought it was.” – this is deflection.
A variety of comments have been made towards me, specific readers and the readers generally which have come from your profile. You have, despite having been offered the opportunity to do so, failed, so far, to offer any evidence whatsoever to demonstrate that it is anybody other than you who has engaged in this behaviour, which you are now seeking to backtrack from. I invited you earlier to email me with cogent evidence to demonstrate that this was the conduct of “somebody else” on the blog who now happens to apparently be your sister. You have not done so. You evidently have time to do so, since you are commenting here. I would suggest that clearing your name ranks as a higher priority than acting bent out of shape because of something Asp Amp has written.
I recommend that you refrain from any further transparent “complaints” about the comments of other readers until you have your own house in order. I am giving you an opportunity to provide me with the evidence to demonstrate that it was your sister, as you allege. My email is narcissist1909@gmail.com – I am not going to debate this issue with you on the blog, I have given you a means of demonstrating that you are not at fault and it is the fault of somebody else. I recommend that you avail yourself of that opportunity whilst I still present it to you.
HG, thank you SO much for your words of support and explanations, much appreciated.
Thank you also for moderating over 3,000 of my comments (bloody hell, that’s not many is it? 😉 ). Didn’t realise you were counting LOL. (I know it’s a facility within the WP system).
Thank you once again.
Asp, when I read this comment, I thought, “Crap! He’s counting our comments???” LOL! I’m sure my number is high too. Yikes!
953.
Leigh, there would be a ‘counter’ on the WP system. It really is not a concern. I was surprised but not surprised – over 3k = on average 9 per day……ehem.
I didn’t even realize that there was a counter. My number isn’t too bad. I’ve been here for over two years.
Leigh, now you know 😉 Pre-designed systems offer all sorts of statistical ways of obtaining data (usually to produce numbers of), depends on the system used. I’ve used MS Access for that and Excel but I sometimes find that too rigid compared to Access. I no longer use MS office programs because of the monthly fees! LibreOffice is the best to use – it’s free.
That’s a good tip to know. Thank you Asp!
Leigh, you are more than welcome. I use it because it can open up MS files (text / spreadsheet docs). 🙂
There you go, Leigh. You can now continue to keep count 😉
Asp,
Two of them are commenting using the same profile.
June 11 12.28 is Duchessbea
June 11 16.01 is Duchessbea
ALL of the others are the sister in my opinion. Disregard the comments and cut the lines. I saw your comment, you’re welcome. Let’s chat once HG handles this one way or the other. Xx
TS, ok. Thank you. X
If there’s evidence, rather than deleting it, adding a disclaimer (in boldface?) might be instructional. Alerts people to the dynamics of sock-puppeting.
Violetta – good idea. Let’s leave to HG to decide. I still do not regret any of my words because in my perception, they are appropriate.
Sock-puppeting – laughing, WITHOUT the talcum powder of course! 😉
Asp Emp, my sister made a few very stupid and daft comments, but she never threatened anyone with a firearm.
I don’t think you realise the gravity of the comment you have made. Let me give you this piece of advice very quickly, you have effectively threatened to hurt/injure/kill someone with a firearm in writing. You just laugh off a comment like that, like it is nothing. Absolutely Horrendous.
Shame on you Asp Emp.
The person that had access to my a/c was my older sister. Obviously as my sister she knows me very well, and would have a good idea as to what kind of passwords I might use. In this case it was a birthday, not to hard to figure out. She knew I was commenting on this blog from my style of writing and the comments I would make. As I have said before, she and I are here for different reasons. My intention is to learn and her intention is to sharpen and strengthen her skills. I can understand why you are dubious and I would think the same if I was in your place. I have not made a bad comment towards anyone on this site before, and I am on it a long time. Why should I just suddenly out of the blue change the way I have always done things? I have had to say the same to other commentators on other blogs, this was not the only one she was commenting on. She did it for some kind of amusing way. I do not have the same personality as her and what she finds funny and what I would find funny are two different things. I was very annoyed to have seen this. Knowing her and the character that she is, I have to draw a line under this because to continue on and let her read all the comments, it is just fueling her and that is all she wants. Something I will not do with her.
Dear Mr Tudor,
This has certainly been an unfortunate sequence of events
I hope this does not cause further issues to real Duchessbea in the future with regard to any detrimental setbacks
We are all most vulnerable here and her apology seems genuinely heartfelt
I would be horrified and mortified if I had sister who did this to me ! The change in her writing was very noticeable and it made me think something was drastically happening in her life
I hate the thought the real DB now feels embarrassed, humiliated, isolated n alone and will be subjected to dealing with all the implications of her narc sister
My interactions with her have always been courteous n respectful
I truly feel for all here who have been violated in some way 😢
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Bubbles,
Thank you very much for your very kind comment. It was a big lesson learned. If you were in anyway affected by what she did, I apologise to you.
Best, DB.
Dearest Duchessbea,
You certainly don’t need to apologise to me DB…but I sincerely thank you for your thoughtfulness
My concern is for everyone’s fragility n emotional well being and hope that all are ok
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Thank you Bubbles.
Truthseeker 6157 & Asp Emp
Yawn.
Much Love,
Duchessbea
https://narcsite.com/2021/06/10/they-will-not-believe-you-7/
Asp Emp,
There is no need to try to start a argument. You need to chill out sweetheart. Everyone here is entitled to there opinion, I am entitled to my opinion just like you. I did not mention the two people by name and by your very response to me you again are highlighting that you are letting your ET get the better of you. I appreciate what you had to say in all your comments here. I think you are reading far to much into this in the wrong manner.
HG has a fantastic work both blog and video. Many of us who have turned up here get a better understanding from HG’s work on what we have been ensnared with or are friends with or live with etc. etc. I am not here to insult or hurt anybody, as a SE, I would not do that. I did my little experiment to further my knowledge and understanding of the Ultra. I have worked through each and every cadre and the Ultra is, I suppose like another dimension. It is well and good to read all the articles, but I don’t like seeing the way these poor unfortunates who end up with HG are treated. I am still empathic at the end of the day, can’t help that. We all see there reactions, and how they feel. I wanted a more detailed understanding and picture of HG and how he would react to something similar. As I have older sisters and an Ex who are all narcissists of various different cadres, I have seen their behaviour and I suppose learned a thing or two. I know how they would all react, and deal with this. But I am working through the understandings of the Ultra and this story gave me a chance to see what if any response HG would give. He didn’t have to give a response, he could have just ignored it. But he didn’t, and I am glad he didn’t. It has improved my understanding and given me a greater insight into the mind of and Ultra and how they approach things and work through things.
Duchessbea,
Me? Start an argument? Don’t make me laff. I’m not your sweetheart either. Exactly, everyone entitled to their opinion. You were indirectly naming and attacking me and TS – hence both of us responding, appropriately. I know exactly why you ‘reacted’ to me and TS commenting.
Just like HG responded “Know your place”. You did not even stop at this point. Why? Ask yourself this. There are other occasions on HG’s blog where you have done similar towards HG, it is derogatory, demeaning, disrespectful.
ET does not come into it at all – not from me, TS, nor HG.
It was your illogical and ‘deranged’ comment that led to where you and me are at right now. You know what? I really don’t give a shit. Because you have not stopped and really thought it through in a logical way.
What I am seeing in this “personal” comment to me – is that you are deflecting and trying to “explain” away what you have said on this thread. You have insulted me (and others in this thread).
I read what TS said about Super Empaths in her response back to you. Since I don’t know what my empath school or cadre is – I’ll trust that what TS said to you to be correct. I read the rest of her comment to you, applause to her for that.
“I did my little experiment to further my knowledge and understanding of the Ultra. I have worked through each and every cadre and the Ultra is” – why? If he wanted to be with you, he would be.
HG has the right to choose anyone he wishes to be involved in his private life.
It is not your ‘concern’ about his past girlfriends, you are not directly affected by this at all.
“I wanted a more detailed understanding and picture of HG and how he would react to something similar” – again, Why? He gave you an answer “Know your place”. He has provided the KHG series, it’s still available via The Knowledge Vault if you are so desperate to know more about him.
“But I am working through the understandings of the Ultra and this story gave me a chance to see what if any response HG would give. He didn’t have to give a response, he could have just ignored it. But he didn’t, and I am glad he didn’t. It has improved my understanding and given me a greater insight into the mind of and Ultra and how they approach things and work through things”- again, Why?
You may have got it very wrong in relation to “understanding” how The Ultra’s mind actually works. There is only one Ultra.
He gave you a response “Know your place”.
Again you are reading to much into it. I said what I did, if I had told HG what I was doing before I did it, he would not have responded. I didn’t intentionally insult anyone, and that was never my intention. We get to see the response and reaction of how the partners in these stories feel when they are ill treated. They do not know what they are ensnared with and respond to the treatment accordingly. I just wanted the Ultra’s response on what I sent and I am grateful for HG responding. He could have ignored the message, he could have deleted the message. He did not. He responded. I don’t take offence to what HG said, nor would I.
Let me break it down for you in simple language, there really is no need to send snoozefest novels of a response.
I sent HG a message. HG gave me a response to my message. That was all I wanted. To see his response to my message. I don’t take offence or I wasn’t hurt by what HG sent because to do so meant I would have deliberately tried to cause offence. I DID NOT. Simply put, we have all read so many scenarios and excellent stories on this site but we only get the response of the partner and I just wanted to see what way HG would respond. Yes, I will be honest, I was curious before as to how HG would respond and in those scenarios he basically didn’t. So when I read this story, again a brilliant story, of which I have told HG, previously about how good his writing is, I just tried to get a response from HG. He again, did not have to respond. But I am glad that he did. We are all here to learn and gain the knowledge. Sometimes on the rare occasion, if you want to further knowledge, you have to push the boat out a bit. HG, did not react, he responded. That’s it.
So jump down off your high horse and relax. You are reading way to much into something and creating something that is not there.
I have seen a lot worse from other people on this site, some of which has been people slagging off HG, slagging off all of us, etc. etc. I am sure you have also seen these messages. I have never slagged off HG. I have defended HG, along with a number of other people when that happens.
Duchessbea,
Thank you for the distastefully written and absolute bollocks of an incorrigible WORD SALAD.
Some of your comments are longer than everyone else’s on this thread. There are some comments I left for you and yet, surprise, surprise, you have not responded. Why?
“That was all I wanted”. The very first “message” you sent was very descriptive of what you “wanted”.
I’ll continue to ride and sit on my high horse for as long as I want. I’ll relax when I’m done riding, as I usually do. You don’t get to decide when I get off it.
“You are reading way to much into something and creating something that is not there”. Seriously? OMG. Revision of History. Deflection. Blameshifting…..
There is a complete difference in ‘slagging’ someone off compared to ‘objectifying’ them.
You never used to be like this.
Something has happened a few months ago when the first of these ‘objectifying’ “messages” appeared. It is something that you have not yet dealt with, maybe not yet shared on here. You are ‘lashing’ out and something you read in the articles you posted these ‘objectifying’ comments that are triggering your uncharacteristic behaviours. What is it, Duchessbea?
“I’ll continue to ride and sit on my high horse for as long as I want. I’ll relax when I’m done riding, as I usually do. You don’t get to decide when I get off it.”
Don’t forget to groom it afterwards. Not only does this remove irritating knots and cockleburs, but the currying massages muscles, and the contact mimics mama horses’ grooming the foals with their teeth, thus encouraging bonding and increasing oxytocin in both of you.
Violetta, thank you for your advice, I’ll bear that in mind. I’ll have an apple or two for the horse to snack on afterwards during the bonding ‘encouragement’. I’d wondered why I ended up with so many hairs between my teeth 😉
Asp Emp:
Mammal hair can be a serious problem. I always like to nibble on puppy heads and kitten heads.
Violetta, there is a difference in stroking pets and licking them. I refused to let my dog cough up the grass blades she ate inside the house!
I don’t lick them, I just nibble with my lips, but you can still get some floof if it’s a Great Pyr or Chow. Velvety short-hairs like Danes and pitties are less linty. Bald human babies are best of all.
Violetta, I understand what you mean. Floof, laughing.
“a greater insight into the mind of and Ultra and how they approach things and work through things.”
? Did you mean “Greaters”?
There’s only one Ultra, so how could “they” approach anything at all?
I grant you HG has conferred that unique and dubious honor on himself, but it’s his blog, his terminology, which we use when we communicate with him–not only out of respect, but because it’s more economical than saying “The guy at my gym who thinks he’s buff but is really aging and decrepit” or “that woman at work who pretends she’s helping you when she’s trying to sabotage you.”
Hi Violetta,
There is no need to read anything into it or try to decipher anything. I just wanted to see how a Greater or in HG’s case The Ultra would respond. He didn’t have to respond. He did and I am glad he did. I didn’t take offence to what he responded. He could have been much more brisk with me and I would still accept his response. I wouldn’t have asked the question if I wasn’t able to handle his answer. It wasn’t done to cause offence.
Truthseeker6157 and Asp Emp, are reading much more into it and creating drama where there is no need to create drama. The are coming across as the ‘Mean Girls’. No need to conduct themselves like that.
DB.
Duchessbea, I seriously do not know what you are taking – whatever it is, it is truly well fucking up your mind !! I don’t care about being called a “Mean Girl”. So fucking what. It’s obviously bothering you – your fucking problem. Suck it up, little girl.
As for you being being nasty towards TS, not fucking acceptable. At all.
TS & I are “conducting” ourselves in the way she and I feel is the RIGHT way – if we see HG being treated in a derogatory way like he has – by you – yeah, I’ll come out and say something. TS certainly did too.
If you read between the lines at other’s comments – I suspect they are also aggrieved.
Get over yourself, you stupid little girl.
Violetta
Yes, he did bestow that honour on himself.
I was (and still am) quite surprised at how easily the title of “Ultra” was embraced when it was first introduced. I expected there to be questions/discussion about how and why this came about and I commented on that on another thread some time ago, but there really wasn’t much (if any) response. I can’t really put my finger on it except to say that I see danger in that. HG is a narcissist, and yes – it’s his blog and he is free to present what he believes to be fact, but the bigger question to me was: why did we so easily accept it as fact and continue to feed into it by using that title after he proclaimed it. No one questioned: Ultra on what basis? What is the evidence/necessity for this new School of One? What precipitated this change?
It was like a seed was planted and we were happy to look anywhere but at it while it grew. A red flag (or at least pink) for me. Have we really learned to spot red flags or avoid toxic relationships if we go back to overlooking and accepting things handed to us with confidence without question?
Hi NA, I have accepted it because it was established prior to my arrival but also since that time because he is the only one doing the favor for us of exposing his kind to us in a way that is easily understood and relatable. I have also wondered about the effect on him but I don’t concern myself with it as I see that as his thing and just leave it there. I think it is also helping him from a business perspective because people do accept and don’t seek out why he has this label, generally. I hope that in real time what I’m learning here does work.
AV
I was here when he changed it and honestly I thought it was odd at first and then I just chalked it up to it being HG, a man who has said he is God! Haha
No kidding, if you can equate yourself with God, claiming “The Ultra” is a simple and logical step!
A V
I’m sorry I hit send before I wanted to. As much as I made light of the fact HG did change to Ultra, I did not question him as why he did so. A warning sign that I missed? Possibly. X
FM1T, I guess all of you who’ve been here for a while have more of the big picture on how that all happened and what questions were asked. It doesn’t sound like many but, for me, a person can call themselves anything they want, I will make the determination in my own mind if I agree with their assessment, and it is likely never stated in the case that I don’t. And, I think it is quite unsurprising that a narcissist would elevate themselves to the highest possible denominator. I agree with HG’s assessment of himself, just to be clear. He is doing us all a huge favor and I believe really wants us to succeed even though it is for his own purposes. I am okay with that. That said, if there is a warning sign that we’re missing, and you see it, can you fill me in? That could be pretty important!
😂 I have only one Lord–a furry and extremely demanding 🐱 little narcissist, deigns to let me nibble his belly in exchange for my undying love and worship.
BC30 and JB, he wanted lord, small l, lord of the major type thing. It was just a power play, at least at the time that’s what I thought. Now I know it was a manipulation or some other narcy thing. A test to see how under control I was probably. I am happy to call him Asshole, capitol A.
@NA
I’ve said so to someone else here that I’m not really invested in the “ultra” thing when it was initially introduced.
I still consider HG an upper greater.
I appreciate that he is the only narcissist so far who has provided the quality of information that narcsite continues to offer.
However, the jury is still out on whether or not another narcissist could reach this level of awareness but possibly for whatever reason is not interested in sharing narc secrets with the rest of us?
I remember when he first changed it, too, Truthseeker commented about it also and it never went any further.
You say, “Have we really learned to spot red flags or avoid toxic relationships if we go back to overlooking and accepting things handed to us with confidence without question?” I ask myself this all the time. Am I just blindly following him the same way I blindly followed the other narcs in my life? The difference with Mr. Tudor is the puzzle pieces finally fit. It finally makes sense. So I guess I do just blindly follow him. Even though I saw others question it, I never did.
For many, it makes logical sense, hence it was not questioned. They have commented as such privately to me.
My intention is not to insult HG or his work in the question I posed. I do not consider it following him blindly to accept the information he offers because as I’ve stated many times – what he writes has been proven accurate to my experiences and many others over time. I felt HG’s breakdown of the Schools and Cadres was brilliant and finally explained why we see similarities yet differences in our narc involvements for instance, so it made sense to me initially that he was a Greater Elite according to his system and amongst other Greater Elites. As Witch has indicated – he may be the only one we accept as benefitting us but the jury is out on whether or not there are others able to reach his level of awareness. I can think of one confirmed Greater (who shall remain nameless) that certainly thinks so haha. When HG first used Ultra In relation to himself I thought: Is he joking? Is this a new school? A school of one? He has stated that he has always been “set apart” from others yet included himself in the Greater Elite school previously. I wondered what precipitated this change to Ultra. How, or does, this fit into the previous discussions about him becoming more pro-social? Does it mean he sees himself as having become more powerful through his interactions with the doctors and with us and was required to set himself further apart? Is it strictly marketing? Was it merely to stick it to he who shall remain unnamed and the countless others attempting to emulate HG’s success?
Those are examples of questions that came to me. I said previously that it was like the Emperors New Clothes. I was looking around to see if others saw and questioned as I was, but it didn’t seem so. My feeling is that HG is The Ultra in providing accurate information on narcissism and if that’s all that is being referred to by The Ultra then I’m onboard. I was interested in hearing HG’s reason for the change, but lack of discussion and the easy acceptance of this seemingly (to me) pivotal announcement by his audience mystified me more.
We learn here to question (and by questioning I don’t mean rejecting, as many positives and more confidence in something can result from questioning). HG can take questions. He decides if and what he will respond to, but we can certainly ask. I’m just hoping if there ARE questions and we don’t ask for fear of causing offence, or we feel too intimidated (as is often mentioned to in relation to consultations but is extremely unfounded as he is the consummate professional) that this doesn’t transfer over to our personal lives and cause further/continued ensnarement.
Easy acceptance did not seem logical to me, but I accept that it might to others, so I appreciate the responses to try to help me understand.
I didn’t mean to insult Mr. Tudor’s work either. I apologize if I did.. I’m beyond grateful to his work. I know his work is accurate. My comment is more about my hesitancy because for over 50 years I’ve trusted the wrong people. I question everyone and everything now. I’m still not sure of myself.
I honestly thought it was none of my business to ask. Everyone else was ok with the change, so I was too.
Hi NA, I read your comment here, with interest. I wondered if HG created the ‘Ultra’ to separate himself from the schools of narcissism because of what he understands about himself as a person? Is it because he has more awareness of himself compared to the Greaters have about themselves? It goes without saying, HG continuously increases his own abilities, where there is a high possibility that the ‘gap’ between himself as a person and the Upper Greater narcissist has grown significantly over the years since HG started KTN site? Did he include himself in the Greater Elite, despite “he has always been “set apart” from others”, because at that time, the ‘Ultra’ had not been ‘created’ until later – is it because he no longer sees himself to ‘fit’ in with the Greaters because the ‘criteria’ is different, or no longer applicable?
I am not specifically asking anyone these questions, nor expecting answers. Just thinking out loud. Thank you, NA for the ‘thought food’. Inspiring to read your comment, as usual, NA.
I guess I’m in the camp of people who don’t give a toss whether HG calls himself the Grand Panjandrum or The Akond of Swat. When I noticed the introduction of the solitary rank of “Ultra,” it’s not like I was going to think, “Hey, this is kind of grandiose. Do you think HG could be…a Narcissist?!!“
Violetta, I agree, I don’t care what he calls himself either. HG has completely changed my life, and is the only person whose information truly makes sense to me, so I guess the term ‘ultra’ is applicable here, as he certainly has a gift. And, as you say, the choice of name is not a surprise, given that HG is a narcissist!
NA:
Were we supposed to question it? Why question it anyway? Just because people haven’t questioned something doesn’t mean they accept it. Maybe they just don’t want to bother with questioning it. I see many comments on this blog I disagree with, or don’t understand, but there is no need to question everything.
I’m not sure I agree that there is danger in one’s acceptance of his title The Ultra, or that this is evidence that someone would accept anything said to them, or given to them in their real lives. I don’t think we can superimpose the relationship each of us has with HG Tudor onto our own lives or narcissists.
For me, it didn’t matter because HG Tudor is not the narcissist in my life so why bother questioning him. He can make any claim he wants, or call himself whatever he wants and it doesn’t matter or affect me.
As to your final paragraph I didn’t view him calling himself The Ultra as a seed being planted, or a red flag because we know he is a narcissist, and there is no reason to question him on his “self entitlement” (having bestowed the title The Ultra onto himself). I also don’t view my own acceptance of this as evidence that I have not learned to spot red flags or avoid toxicity as this interaction does not have the same toxic dynamic, there is no need for the same diligence in questioning, and this is his blog. Lastly, I don’t take it very seriously.
Anyway, on this point I agree with him and accept him as The Ultra.
Hi njfilly
No, we weren’t supposed to and it was not required. I was just surprised given that we have questioned (and quite ferociously I might say) other subjects where I did not expect it (deeply personal investigation and observation with regard to his relationship with The Shieldmaiden for example comes to mind). It was no holds barred then.
The danger I felt was not in him introducing the title, but rather our ease of acceptance of it, but you’re right – it doesn’t mean one would accept as easily outside of the blog, although there are many examples that we have previously done just that and might or continue to do so.
I accept that it did not give you the same pause and thank you for your response as to why. I am however a bit confused though by your subsequent comment indicating that you would question your father and would refuse him a new title.
Do you mean that you put that down to the degree of influence you believe the person to have over you as to how you respond?
NA,
Let me say first that you do pose some thought provoking questions that make for some interesting conversations.
My answer to your question is that I’m not exactly sure. Maybe you are correct in that it is based upon the degree of influence a person has over me. My responses are situation specific. I don’t like my father. Sometimes I hate him. I have intermittent anger and resentment toward him (although recently I feel that fading) for everything he did to me when I was a child and couldn’t fight back, and I didn’t have the ability to deal with it. He made my life much more difficult than it had to be or needed to be. Rather then helping me, as a father should, or even being indifferent to me (which is still unacceptable for a father), he went out of his way to cause difficulty. (I know you understand this and possibly experienced the same thing. I write it out just to give flow to my thoughts). I rarely speak to him anymore at all and I no longer call him dad. If I must speak to him, I just look at him and speak. He deserves no respect, no regard, no consideration, no title of any kind. I don’t have these negative feelings toward HG Tudor. I really don’t remember how The Ultra came about. When did the change take place? Did he make a post or an announcement about it that I may have missed? I think I just began to read the title and I just pieced it together that he was referring to himself as The Ultra. Further, he has never said we had to address him as The Ultra, although if he did I would probably comply because I do view him as being in a position of authority over me based upon his knowledge of the subject matter, and I want my questions to be answered. (Also, I think he is magnificent, and I will call him whatever he wants to be called! My father is less than magnificent. Much much less than.) It is his lexicon that I would question only if I wanted to understand it more deeply, but I don’t. This blog and the classifications are an unusual circumstance, it’s not my real life, this blog is simply a fun distraction for me. I am not in an abusive situation that I need to escape. Lastly, I don’t have any reason to NOT want to call him by his preferred title.
Regarding questions about the Shieldmaiden, I have also asked questions about his relationship. I’m curious about it. HG Tudor is an intelligent, fascinating man so I’m curious about him on a personal level. I’m not curious about why he refers to himself as The Ultra. I believe I understand why so I have no questions about it.
Hi NA,
I remember having a discussion with you at the time. You mentioned Emperors New Clothes then I think, and we discussed marketing and the pro social element. My view was that it was based on awareness level. Particularly in relation to empaths as opposed to just narcissists. You’re right, I don’t recall it being a lengthy discussion. I think we concluded that all would be revealed as, when and if HG decided to share. He hasn’t yet but we do have a Q&A on the cards !
This upcoming Q&A should be very interesting!
NJ Filly,
Agree, I’m looking forward to it. I don’t have as many questions as I usually do. I’ll have to think about it. I really enjoy them though.
If my father were to tell me that I should start calling him “Dad The Great”, yes I would question that. Also I would refuse.
Logical thinking can also be, how does him being an Ultra affect me in my life and personal improvement? Nothing. All that I care about is the information he has that has been superior and most helpful to me personally and that is all that is relevant to me.
Some people had strong reactions to the Shieldmaiden relationship because a lot of them went through a horrific experience being romantically ensnared by a narcissist so it triggers something strongly from their past. I don’t understand what his Ultra title would trigger from anyone though, except maybe jealousy?
MP,
I’m sure his Ultra title triggers jealousy from other narcissists but also, possibly, others involved in providing narcissistic abuse forums, such as other youtube channels. Maybe Vaknin is jealous. Although I don’t really understand the jealously since they could simply give themselves a similar title!
I have to admit to feeling a bit tense about his relationship with SM. I feel guilty being interested in knowing about it when it involves her personal life; sad that I know some things about her boyfriend that she does not know (unless she knows now); and anxious that he may eventually devalue her. I don’t want to hear about it if and when he does. I don’t want to think about her heartbreak. I feel compassion for her. I would like the new dynamic to work and for this relationship to be different than his others. Possibly wishful thinking. I can’t image the depth of her emotions if she is eventually discarded. I have to stop myself from thinking about it as it causes me distress.
Njfilly
Please disregard my last question as I see in re-reading your response that you have covered it with your point on diligence and source. Thank you.
Ha ha! After I wrote a long, drawn out comment trying to explain myself because I HATE being misunderstood!
No problem, NA.
Good question NA
I guess I didn’t think much about this title. I pondered a bitsy whether a certain playwright in English history might be another Ultra narcissist, but regarding the awareness of all the schools and cadres of his kind and of empaths and normals, there simply is no other person in history I’ve ever heard of, accomplishing anything in this realm.
Dearest njfilly,
I looked it up and ‘ultra’ means extreme; (also as in opinions) far beyond the norm, excessive, goes beyond what is usual of ordinary
Also ‘ultra’ was the designation adopted by the British intelligence in June 1941 for wartime signals intelligence obtained by breaking high-level encrypted enemy radio and teleprinter communications at the Government Code and Cypher School at Bletchley Park
Now British Intelligence headquarters are based in Vauxhall London
🤔Hmmmmm
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Dear Bubbles,
Wow! Interesting information. Thank you for sharing that.
Bubbles, you reminded me of ‘The Imitation Game’ 2014 film Benedict Cumberbatch who played the character Alan Turing. It was the factual side of Alan Turing’s life that piqued my attention and how could the world treat a highly intelligent man in the way he was? Was politics more narcissistic then, or is it worse now? Hmm….
Toward the end of our long relationship, after years of abuse, my ex wanted me to call him “lord”. I refused, he pushed it for a while but finally gave up. There was no way that was happening, regardless of whatever consequences he brought on, he had in no way earned a title such as that.
A Victor:
Interesting that your ex wanted you to call him Lord.
Maybe he should have earned your respect first.
Dearest njfilly n Asp Emp,
You’re most welcome ….. I wanted to understand it myself … the difference between greater n ultra ! I get where Mr Tudor is coming from
The Imitation Game is a fabulous movie … I have a copy and have seen it numerous times …. thankfully Alan Turing has been acknowledged and awarded an OBE
Narcissism has always prevailed, it’s just more noticeable and out in the open now and sadly flourishing!
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Bubbles, RE: Alan’s award – that was one of the things I was referring to. A court ruled that he was to take meds for his choice of sexuality. I was horrified. It was after that I learned more about how people were treated for their ‘same’ sex relationships. Hence my statement RE: narcissism & politics. Yes, it is a good film – I learned facts of humanity that I was not aware about.
NA,
As far as I understand it, the meaning of ‘why’ the Ultra, how was the Ultra born, lies in: flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.
We (= Mercy and I), discussed this at length in the forum.
It is related to the grand design and to the quoted adage.
And that is why there is only 1.
Z, thank you for your interpretation RE: the ‘creation’ of The Ultra. It makes sense.
Z
Thank you. I visited the HG Forum last night for the first time in awhile and found some references there re: The Ultra that were more in line with my thinking/questioning as to what the reasons might be. Your analysis was something to behold! The forum is a goldmine for anyone who is interested in HG’s history, family, and how his narcissism was formed, amongst other things. The Clue Hunters are impressive in their dedication and skill at working things out. As well, I thought it might have prompted some to look into The Ultra even though they may not have commented, and Bubbles has introduced something here that very much interests me and perhaps other Clue Hunters.
Everyone
It wasn’t really about him calling himself the Ultra as that is unsurprising (and I agree to some extent), it was more about any change that occurred that lead to that and reactions or non-reactions of the readers that were interesting to me. Sometimes people come here and leave when they’ve obtained the information they feel required in their private lives, others remain for various reasons and the focus can shift (at least it has for me). I have worked through personal issues and am more interested now in narcissism as a whole, HG personally (how his narcissism was formed, how it manifested, and any changes that have or might occur). I am also more interested in the thought processes of empaths at different stages and am sometimes surprised at my reactions in relation to others and the various types of empaths. It has remained interesting to me to this point and thus I am still here for those who have questioned that. I ask or question because I am interested and that is how I learn. If we all thought alike and had the same opinions, it is my view that there would be no growth and things would become stagnant.
Thank you all for your contributions to the subject. I appreciate them and your time.
HG
Thank you as well for your patience and time in moderating. I’m working on less comments albeit they have become longer (I’ll work on that too). Hey – at least it wasn’t shopping and sex toys!
NA
Not a problem NA, always good to see you interacting and commenting.
NA:
With regard to your comment about reasons for being and/or staying on this blog, I find my own evolution here to be interesting.
When I first arrived I read only the articles, never the comments, and made very few comments. I already knew about narcissism but found HG Tudor information very detailed and extensive, so I read more.
Very shortly afterward I no longer cared to learn anymore about narcissism and was only interested in the person HG Tudor.
Now I only read the comments, and no longer read the articles. I stay only due to my interest in HG Tudor the person.
I will get back to reading his articles. He is such a fine, brilliant writer.
Thank you
NA asking the right questions.
Foreigner 74,
Thank you for your message. I was sorry to read about what you went through but very glad to hear you GOSO. Yes HG, very much proved he is the Ultra. His response was exactly what I thought it might be and very eloquently and smoothly said by HG. It was interesting also to me to see his response. My sisters who are a mix of cadres all love the dramatics and if they had been involved in this it would have been dragged out and blasted all over the place. All just looking for a reaction and playing on that reaction. For me to see HG respond and no reaction was very interesting. Firstly it proved that the Ultra is top dog, he is what he says he is and just as the story says he can provoke and cause consternation with his IPPS and two seconds later be as cool and smooth as if nothing happened. Basically, he is not bothered. He can take anything that comes his way and deal with it. While the IPPS is flustered and ragged. I hope I phrased that in an understanding way.
What is ISMR?
I’ve looked both in my old saved list of acronyms and the updated one on the site and can’t find it, unless it’s a combo of Intimate Source and Mid-Ranger.
Imaginary Source?
I put it on my list of questions in case I don’t find out sooner. Thank you!
Vi
Thanks for doing that, I was confused as well. Your interpretation makes a lot of sense.
Hey JB,
It’s interesting isn’t it. We read the articles and ask ourselves, ‘What would I do in that situation?’ It’s one thing reading an article and quite another when you are the IPPS with soaring ET. As you say though, we all have limits.
I think there is a modus operandi for each of us, a tendency to do one thing or another. We can look back at past experiences, gauge what those tendencies are and estimate a reaction to a given scenario. It can only be an estimate though. Let’s just hope we don’t find ourselves in a similar situation where we have to put our theories to the test! Xx
TS, it certainly is. I loved that comment you made, about just leaving in silence and letting everyone, guests included, work it out. The quiet dignity of it. I would so love to think that is exactly what I would do in that situation. I know I probably wouldn’t though. It’s a good lesson for me, know when to keep quiet and just leave! Thankfully, I have never endured a situation such as the one in the article, and I hope never to in the future! Xx
Truthseeker6157
I have to say, you write and sound very like HG. This isn’t you by any chance HG infiltrating the ranks?
No and TS6157 does not write like me at all.
So what is an ISMR? I can’t find that particular combination of initials in the acronym list. Is MR mid-ranger?
Well in my case it’s
In Search of Mid Ranger.
Mine just had a prostatectomy 😞
-The Woman Formerly Known as WokeAF
HG,
I apologise to you. I can’t believe I lowered you and equalled you to someone as uncouth, childish and quite frankly ridiculously immature as Truthseeker6157. I have seen Kindergarten with better writing and diction than that novel Truthseeker6157 projected and subjected everybody to reading. I have to be honest, I feel asleep half way through. It was the best nap I’ve had for a while.
Truthseeker6157’s demeanour came across as an uncontrollable rageful attack. One of the highlighted points about narcissists is that they hate criticism. I think Truthseeker6157 has forgotton her mask and has forgot to put across a good facade and is showing all of us her true colours. I am aware that Truthseeker6157 has not done her test for which cadre. I think Truthseeker6157 will get an awful surprise when Truthseeker6157 finds out what cadre she really is. Based on her over the top angry outburst and aggressive projections, Truthseeker6157 is very much not an Empath.
I feel awful thinking about how you HG, must be feeling after being compared to Truthseeker6157.
I don’t go around insulting people or trying to hurt people.
It would mean the world to me HG if you would accept my apology.
I am deeply sorry for causing you such distress by my comparison of you with Truthseeker6157. It makes me feel truly awful.
HG, I am very sorry and I truly hope you will accept my apology.
Thank you HG.
Sincerely,
Duchessbea.
If you think that somebody making a point and supporting it with observed evidence equates to “an uncontrollable rageful attack” you have a strange idea of what amounts to an uncontrollable rageful attack.
I have not seen evidence of TS6157 behaving as “uncouth, childish and quite frankly ridiculously immature”, nor “over the top angry outburst and aggressive projections”.
“over the top angry outburst and aggressive projections” Have you met TS6157? 😂😂😂 Cadres say otherwise.
DB: “I feel awful thinking about how you HG, must be feeling after being compared to Truthseeker6157.
I don’t go around insulting people or trying to hurt people.”
Now, I am not the expert, but I would say ‘word salad’ or “contradiction”, the second usually being an element of the first.
Oh and I forget: projection (when you say that TS is of Kindergarten level).
I loved TS’s message (the one you are referring to), there was no rage or anger in it whatsoever, it was extremely logical and very accurate.
In short, your haughtiness says it all.
Jaysus, shut the door.
No and HG does not write like me at all.
Truthseeker 6157
You took the words right out of my mouth. It certainly is quite evident from the childish writing and very immature response that you gave. It was like a novel, it was so long I actually feel asleep half way through.
I can’t believe, I lowered HG Tudor to your level. I must apologise to HG.
PS. Truthseeker 6157, I hope you noticed that I responded with indifference and didn’t rise or react?
Take note Truthseeker 6157, if you do the same, you will feel so much better within yourself. This site is about bettering yourself. Not trying to get one up on someone else. You need to work on your ET and LT. You have a lot of work to do in both of those aspects. It will do you the world of good and it will stop you losing the run of yourself.
Sending you Much Love,
Duchessbea.
Duchessbea,
Thank you for your comments and observations. Understood.
TS, I’ve thought about this a lot, like, a lot a lot. Why did I stay so long as MMR’s DLS when I “knew” what was going on? How can I say I wouldn’t have put up with the abuse and shenanigans as an IPPS?
As DLS, MMR was already cheating, so I accepted it. It’s not as if I was “faithful” him, although he thought so. HG says it was his magical thinking. I’m ashamed that I was ever the “other woman.” Never again! Not because of the narcissist, but because I’ve grown and won’t do that to another woman.
The reason I know I couldn’t have stayed as IPPS is because there are things that narcissists do, which he never did to me because of my role as DLS. Things I could not have accepted. It is in my nature to give ONE chance. It is in my nature to go no contact. That is what eventually happened with MMR.
I’m fairly certain my 1st husband was a narcissist, but haven’t done a ND yet. I snapped on a Tuesday. I went directly to the airport, got on a flight, never to be seen again.
Hey BC30,
I have thought similar.
I was with the MMRA Somatic for around a year I think, bit longer maybe. He was the only rebound relationship I’ve had and was directly after Love of My Life Guy.
I did care but if I’m entirely honest I knew it wouldn’t be a long term thing. You might have realised similar as DLS. I ended it because he couldn’t respect boundaries. I didn’t feel upset. I ended it cleanly.
All of my relationships have had a tipping point where something has happened that I just won’t accept. In my head I just switch off and I’m planning my departure until I am in a position to be able to go. The online narc was the only exception. I didn’t reach a tipping point because as you say, I wasn’t the IPPS. At least not in the usual sense.
I can see you just saying ‘Nah’ and jumping on a plane and disappearing! I get that. The decision is made, no point hanging around.
Different narcs, different situations. It’s tough to know how we would behave in every scenario. ‘Form’ is form though so I think there will be a tendency to repeat a usual pattern.
Xx
🤔 Now I have a craving for whipped cream, strawberries and short cake 😫
Ever had Baileys flavored whipped cream ? It’s the Bomb !! 😋
Haha, Eliza, that is the most lighthearted response to this article I’ve seen! It does not lead me to wanting cake. Lol! No, more to wanting to take that IPPS out of that situation. But, your comment was funny!! 🙂
Lol-Oh No! I was commenting on another comment AV – I am not good at finding the right spot 😜 A comment that mentioned strawberries and whipped cream …. I got lost in the craving 😂 and forgot the Real subject 😉
Haha, I see! It is a bit tricky sometimes, to find the right place. I have learned that WordPress offers the best option, that I’ve found, for placement of them. You can go directly to the comment you want to respond to and there is an option there. Also, if someone responds to you, you can set it to show up under the notification bell and reply directly from there, as well as like them. I still thought your comment was light hearted fun!
I am trying to hang on to my sense of humor and fun – not easy these days is it ? HG’s youtube series on Harry’s wife has had me HIGHLY entertained. 😈 I’m very naughty 😜
Hi Eliza, I don’t think I have ever lost my sense of humor save during the final year or two my ex was with us and that stuck with me for a year or two after he was gone. I remember the exact moment I realized it and brought it bank immediately. Now I will be sure to not allow it to be lost again! I am sorry to read you are struggling with this. Why are you naughty that the Harry’s wife video series is entertaining? I find it so also!
I hope you find this AV !
My “Catholic Guilt” most likely on the subject of me enjoying the analysis of Harry’s Wife …. 😜 I loved the Royal Weddings!!
What a cold bucket of water on the fun Meeeeagain has been! I enjoyed watching Diana’s boys grow up and I loved them 💕
So glad you have your sense of humor mojo back ! We NEED it ! I feel like it’s my Armor sometimes – letting things go with a laugh and a shrug can be so good for us 💗
Love the name but it makes me think I should go with AV BadGrammar! Haha! We all do it, especially with auto correct that misbehaves!
I see, I loved Diana, she is what got me interested in the RF at all. Then my oldest daughter became a huge RF fan and has kept me posted on certain things. The interesting thing was that she brought Harry’s wife up to me, knowing I was studying narcissism, she picked up on it all on her own, so obvious is HW. And so observant is my daughter as well. I would not have picked up on it, the observant gene passed me by.
Yes, I am most happy to have my “humor mojo” back, that is a great phrase for it! It does make life much easier!
This is one of the ways my mother used to intimidate and control us. Not the cake but the in your face hissed whisper threats. There was no standing up to it back then.
AV, that is how Lesser did it a number of times, not just to me. I was absolutely mortified to witness him do that to a male colleague (right in the face and shouting) and seeing it like that – why the fk I did not GOSO then? Cos I needed the job….. Lesser was at fault and he didn’t like it when the general manager stepped up to speak with him (both are Lessers)….
The ULA owned a business and fired people at the drop of a hat. He told me if they’re not performing their job, out they go. Truly appliances. He did help me grow in my understanding of how to do my job better and make myself more valuable to my boss, that was actually very helpful. But it seemed he had dropped women in the same way and that was concerning to me. He actually had one that had escaped, said he’d dodged a real bullet with that one. I came to believe it was the other way around.
Yes, if a narcissist is the role of owner of business – all the rules would be changed whenever he needed to assert control. I now understand why so many businesses are “sole traders”, or not registered as per authorities. It leaves it wide open for tax fraud etc too – as well as ‘hood-wnking’ accountants or employing someone who would be manipulated to ‘cook’ the books (if the owner of the business does not know how to do it). One narcissist was unaware of my very sharp eye when it came to book-keeping & receipts. The quick hiring and firing would also avoid the “reason” to issue formal contracts of employment, usually get rid of the staff before the ‘probationary’ period was up (I’ve seen this with one brilliant & absolutely right for the job – she was too vocal for them). These types of business owners are less likely to have up to date legal requirements in place ie H&S, staff welfare facilities etc. All sorts of ‘under-hand’ methods – as long as the money keeps coming in and the ‘perfect’ fuel-laden appliances……..
When I did a background check on the summer narc, he came up clean except for one tax issue, related to a business he’d owned. I thought I would just let it sit there and see if he would ever mention it. He did, toward the end of our time together. He was very excited as it would be dropping off the books in just a couple of months giving him a clean slate to get his business back up and running the way he preferred. He’d downsized for the 10 years he’d owed the debt, so they couldn’t see/take his money. That should’ve told me a lot but I wasn’t aware yet of what I was dealing with and he did give me a seemingly good story for why it was there, of course none of it his fault. But I was already getting wise to him and it only added to reasons to go, not reason to stay.
What you describe, it does appear to be a “common” theme LOL. Lesser had bankrupty – lasts 7 years in UK. MR was just as as bad with debts but not bankrupt, his daughter is though! I just thought that you know the expression “eyes are bigger than the stomach” ….. that is lower echelon narcissists and money !!! Pure and utter greed.
Lesser’s son-in-law opened so many companies, majority of the shut down by companies house…..he knew what to do, he was a nasty character too.
HG …a real empath who has actually been abused physically and emotionally would know what you’re capable of . Someone with true financial power and the connections with the law& law makers as yourself would know you could destroy an empaths life very easily. But I wonder how your sessions with the good doctors are going ? HG , do you still go visit with them ?
Your initial two sentences are entirely accurate.
I continue to have interaction with the good doctors but less often and more usually remotely.
“Remotely”, as in remote control ? 😉
As in distanced.
Asp Emp, giggle…
This ones a favorite. I do wish we could’ve seen what happened after the party. I get the feeling by how afraid she was that this narcissiat was physically abusive. I don’t blame her for yawning and rolling her eyes it gets boring to watch someone boost their ego and play the same part all the time. You see this all the time with stepford wives of narcissists. They are expected to act a certain way to contribute to the facade. Many of them are also victim narcissists and are in it for the money and security. A sad existence.
Very much agree.
HG, I would relish sitting there with a puss on me as long as a wet week, looking bored at every anecdote you told, watching you hold in your fury and trying your best to bite your snarl. I know that is not very Empathic of me, but knowing of your treatment of the poor unfortunate who was ensnared with you in this story, before, during and after this party, if I was her shoes, I would keep pressing every button to break your fake exterior and ruin your facade, in a very ladylike fashion of course, to let all and sundry know what you are. I would ensure I had gone on very expensive internet shopping trips with your Visa card/all your bank cards on the morning of the dinner party. I would finish by refashioning your suits, shirts, t-shirts, jeans, underwear and whatever else you wear. I would deliberately cause an argument with you, burst into tears and be insistent on not being able to be with you anymore, and leave the house that night with the dinner guests (I would need witnesses after all). GOSO. Very importantly, stay no contact. Wouldn’t that just be bliss.
It always entertains me to see kitty trying to claw.
Trying?! Trying, HG?!
Trying and failing.
Oh, I bet!
Aww HG, you might be used to Kitties who claw, but you need to straighten up your tie and sharpen up your game for a Tigress who Purrs….
Yawn.
Oh! Kitten bellies are the softest things. I could eat them! 😍
Duchessbea,
Is he worth it though? Stand up from the table, smile at the guests. He doesn’t deserve even a sideways glance.
Wordlessly walk to the door, exit, drive away. He can work it out for himself. So can the guests.
Kitty can’t be bothered with it anymore. 😜
Such bravado yet when it comes to the defining moment how they falter.
Not necessarily bravado actually. My closest estimate as to the way I would behave based on how I tend to behave when a line is crossed. There’s no disputing that a line was crossed in the scenario above.
Honestly though, I don’t think any of us truly know how we would react until we are met with the similar situation.
Maybe the first time, HG, but everyone has their limits!
Now this I love, TS!
Ladies,
You know HG is clutching at straws. You can feel it. You know he is just waiting to explode. Just like the story says, on the inside the fury is rising, the snarl is itching to come out, but the facade of the fake smile stays in place.
While I’m relaxing on my chaise longue, wearing my Agent Provocateur Lingerie surrounded by diamonds and pearls (at HG’s expense of course), feeling like the pussycat enjoying her strawberries and cream. Licking the whipped cream off my finger never felt so good.
Not at all.
You would be wearing nothing at my expense. One such as you would never be selected by me for such a role. Know your place.
HG,
ISMR?
ISMR.
Somebody’s been watching too many Taylor Swift videos.
Duchessbea,
People have different ‘perspectives’ and opinions where HG is concerned, either on this blog or in his private life. He has explained why he has to keep these different aspects of his life separate. It is not just for his benefit. It is for everyone he has in the aspects of his life as well as all those that are on this blog and YouTube. It is about protection, confidentiality, legal reasons – the list goes on.
Personally, I don’t think HG is ‘fake’, he is honest (where & when he needs to be), he is kind, generous and supportive.
PS what you say in your first paragraph, I do not agree.
Hahaa flirty flirty 🤣Duchesbea
Trying to get HG hot and bothered
Kiki
Truthseeker6157:
I sometimes forget the initials, unless they’re frequently used. Where do I look this up?
Touche Truthseeker6157. Brilliant. A case of deja vu comes to mind with what you said.
Relax. This was purely a little experiment to see if HG Tudor would react to being treated in a somewhat similar manner to the way he treated this poor unfortunate in the story (and other previous unfortunate women of HG). As a SE, I do not go out of my way to hurt people. I certainly was surprised to get such a response from one or two people.
I have never suggested that HG is a fake and not who he says he is. I don’t know where someone managed to come up with that response, but sweetie you were way off the mark.
I have the highest respect, regard and gratitude for HG Tudor, and he knows this because I have told him.
As HG has told us numerous times, he is a narcopath and has no empathy. Therefore he reacted exactly like I thought he would. A very cool exterior and a very smooth, polished, and to the point reply to me. My little experiment was telling and I bow out with the greatest of respect for HG. No matter how hard, or how many times people presently or in the past have possibly thought they were getting one over on HG Tudor, they never will get one over on HG Tudor, and it quite possibly has never happened. Today proves it again. I wasn’t trying to get one over on HG, I just wanted to see what, if any reaction he would give. HG didn’t give any reaction. He responded, nothing more. HG is what he says he is and there is no messing about with that. I bow to the Master.
There is no consideration for ISMR etc. I have taken HG’s test for what cadre and I did it under a different name. I have already said this to HG before. I was raised in a family of narcs. My twin sister and older sisters are all narcs. I am the only Empath in the family. But I did learn a thing or two from their behaviour. My older sister is also on this site too, but she and I are here for very different reasons. As many of you, I am sure can attest to, it is not easy growing up in a family where you are effectively the odd one out, all your sisters have the same type of personality and yet you know something feels off but you don’t know what. After a long, mind boggling relationship broke up, I found HG, and it is thanks to HG, that I now know what that long relationship and my Ex are all about and what my sisters are and always will be. It is not easy, but if you follow HG’s methods it is the best and it works.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But I was surprised by the reactions of one or two people whose Emotional Thinking seemed to get the better of them.
HG continuously points out that we have to work on ET and LT. It was very clear from the responses that one or two are not doing that, by how quick they were to judge and as such are hampering their own recovery. May I suggest that you concentrate on bettering and strengthening you ET and LT.
HG, with the greatest of respect, no offence to you was intended, I just wanted to see if you would react to receiving somewhat light similar treatment to the treatment received by your girlfriends. You practice what you say. You didn’t react. You responded.
The best advice dealing with narcs as HG says is GOSO and NC. But if you have to deal with any narcissists in your life, respond with indifference just like HG does. Don’t react.
Sorry Duchess, nice try.
1. It is extremely unusual for a Super Empath to announce themselves as a SE. They will give their school when asked directly but they don’t announce it. Mid Rangers will announce as a SE as they believe that it indicates some form of superiority. It doesn’t. It’s a school, like any other school.
2. The empaths here have no reason to push HG’s buttons. They know HG is a narcissistic psychopath and have no desire to test it for testing’s sake.
3. You reference HG’s former IPPS’s as ‘doormats’ on a different thread.’ You suggest that he selects ‘doormats’ on purpose. I assume the implication being they are easier to control. An empath would NEVER describe another empath as a doormat. They might refer to themselves as having behaved like a doormat, but they will not use that term to refer to another empath. It’s disrespectful and stinks of false superiority. Wind up or no wind up, little test or no little test.
4. The comments you made were bravado filled. Designed as a wind up or not, the pictures you painted were the imaginings of a narcissist not an empath, Super or otherwise.
5. SE is a school not a cadre. You would know this had you taken the EDC.
6. When I asked your opinion of the EDC on another thread you responded that you had no thoughts either way. Highly unusual. It indicates that you cannot make a comment on the EDC because you have no idea what the EDC entails.
7. A name change for the EDC? Things that make you go, ‘hmmm’
8. On the contrary, the way HG responded to you was very revealing. He talked down to you. ‘Know your place.’ I cannot claim to analyse HG accurately, but if I was a betting woman I would say he was addressing one of his own kind.
9. There is no ET evident in this response. Only LT. Just because other empaths sense something is ‘off’ does not automatically mean they have high ET.
10. Had you just stuck with your first comment and left it there, you might have been less obviously Mid Rangey. You didn’t. You kept on trying to assert control. I don’t buy in to your ‘little test’.
Violetta, ‘ISMR’ is a marker I have seen HG use on YouTube. Given the context of its’ use, I interpret it to mean ‘Is Mid Range.’
TS, BRAVO! BRAVO!
Inner me skipping around in absolute excitement, going ‘woo hoo!’……. laughing.
Excellently worded, loving the numbers too. Oh, yes, ten of them. Shoot Her Down! (after you’d fired the first 5, I’m yelling ‘my go now!’).
Mid-Rangey…. laughing……
Daammnnn, I held back – far too much when I responded. BTW, did you notice – she sent it to HERSELF, not me, not you directly……. ehem.
Thank you so much, TS x
When something seems off, even with a “long-time” commenter, it can be a case that they’re a narcissist? This is good for the fine-tuning maybe? Huh. This is really strange. Not sure what to think here…
A Victor
You absolutely never know who you are commenting with on here! I for one still have trouble deciding whether they are a narcissist or have narcissistic traits, although in time they will drop the mask and you will know for sure. I just chalk it up to another learning experience that HG and this blog provide. There is not another in the world that can compete! Xx
Thank you for that FoolMe1Time, this has actually been very eye-opening and not a little upsetting. I will be more careful going forward, it makes me wonder what to trust. The learning is okay but it is so confusing. Is this because we are naive or gullible, that we have to learn this? Now that I have seen this once hopefully I will pick it up if it happens again. I will take your words as a suggestion and try to chalk it up as you said. Thank you again, very much.
AV
I would like to think we are neither naive or gullible but that we are simply human. Most people want to help and take people at there word, who would have thought that there are people out that simply put, wants our attention and emotions ( fuel ). What I try to do now is follow my gut instinct, look for those red flags, and what I feel is most important, follow the evidence! I have found this to be one of the greatest things HG has taught me. You cannot deny the evidence. To call someone a narcissist when you are not 💯 sure can hurt someone deeply, but to defend someone simply because in the past you have corresponded back and forth with that person is also wrong. I have done both in the past because I allow my emotional thinking to get in the way.
We are all still learning on here and being confused at certain times is part of it, at those times I look to HG for the answers, even if he says nothing at all, follow the evidence AV and you will be just fine. 💞
Thank you for this, it is helpful.
AV, I read TS’s comment back to you. What she says is right. You have nothing to fear on this blog. I’m ok, now. I look forward to more of TS’s explaining her thoughts. 🙂
Happy to read this last comment of yours, Duchessbea. Challenging and provoking narcissists and psychopaths is extremely dangerous, especially when their fury is ignited. I went through it, as many of the readers of this blog, I suppose. It’s exactly how H.G. describes it. In those moments, terror is all you feel and there’s no space for pride or bravado. And you usually don’t expect it because you’ve done nothing bad (from your perspective of course). When it happened to me, I had only asked him (An UMRN) why he wasn’t paying attention to what I was saying. He got furious. “How dare you accuse me after all I’ve been doing for you?” is all I remember of his words, but I’ll never forget his dark furious eyes. I didn’t react at all and after a few minutes of horror, he calmed down. Two days later, when he was at work, I escaped. Therefore I too strongly recommend not to react and GOSO. With regard to your little “experiment” with H.G., it’s very much clear that it disturbed and concerned him less than a fly in a room. But It was obvious, he is the Ultra!
Duchessbea, what did HG do to you personally to deserve being subjected to what he was subjected to from you? I slag off my past narcissists but not HG. Why are you ‘surprised’ by one or two people?
Some people on this blog have a lot of respect for HG as a person. No doubt, they will say something if they feel someone has ‘crossed a line’ or have their facts wrong.
HG’s words to you, directly, “Know your place” says it all.
I am not your sweetie. HG has cognitive empathy – not ‘no empathy’.
Suggest away all you like about MY LT / ET. I am the best judge on MY reactions, MY ‘recovery’ is brilliant. I am in a sublime position on that.
I have narcissists in my life but they don’t know about their narcissism and I can have a friendship with them without their narcissism affecting me. I’ll choose who to have in my life. It’s how you manage your ET / LT around them.
While HG gives his time & expertise where empowering empaths is concerned, there is a difference in being subjective, insulting and downright rude. HG is not an ‘object’, he is a man with very good intentions.
TS:
Posted to HG before I saw your answer. Thank you. I thought the “IS” was an abbreviation, not a word, and speculated above that it stood for “ImaginarySouce.”
Asp Emp:
And if his intentions aren’t good, the results are, where we are concerned. There are a number of substances, poisonous in sufficient amounts, that in smaller amounts are used as life-saving medicines.
Violetta, RE: “the results are, where we are concerned” – that’s it, hence my saying ‘good intentions’.
Hey Violetta,
I haven’t asked HG what ISMR means. I have only interpreted it that way due to the couple of instances I have seen it used.
I am very wary of calling ‘narc’ on the blog. It isn’t my first thought when I read an unusual comment. Other than with the gulls of course! It doesn’t make me feel particularly good if I’m honest.
You can see my thinking outlined in my comment to Duchessbea. I have spoken to her before. Whilst the name is the same, this does not sound like Duchessbea to me. There could be an element of truth to the ‘narc sister on the blog’.
If HG tells me I am wrong. I will apologise.
Asp Emp,
I wanted to make my thinking on it clear. So I listed it. I don’t call ‘narc’ lightly but there were too many things that didn’t sit well with me. The doormat comment in particular. I can’t imagine any empath ever referring to another in that way in any context. The later talking down to you and snipe at my sounding like HG follows a similar theme.
Gawd, I bet HG threw up a bit in his mouth at that. Me with my punctuation errors, I can only imagine!
TS, thank you. Yes, absolutely appalling behaviour from her. I agree with you in relation to how HG may have felt – not at your comments, nor mine – just how it’s all coming from one person and then treating us like that when HG knows yu and me better than that.
LOL, I’d just thought I’d better start washing my laundry twice from now on before hanging it out to dry 😉
Thank you for your support to me and HG. It’s much appreciated that you also spoke up.
HG, thank you SO much x
TS:
That was beautifully analyzed.
This is one of subtle distinctions HG makes that I’m only gradually learning to spot. Whatever he’s like in his personal life, he is unfailingly courteous here if we are, and will even join in a little teasing to lighten the frequently grim subject we are studying.
There are times, however, where I haven’t been able to tell whether someone is trying to hijack the site or is a traumatized wreck lashing out in all directions out of panic rather than malice. In the 2nd case, rather than suavely ripping the individual a new orifice or 6 as I had expected, HG will use calm logic to allay the paranoia, so the person can stop hyperventilating or flailing randomly and start/resume learning.
Hey Violetta,
Thank you for posting your thoughts and for considering mine. I totally agree, it is difficult to see exactly what is going on when disagreements occur. Like you, I’m learning to pick out subtle signs but I have a way to go yet.
I agree also that HG does ‘take it on the chin’ when he sees an empath lash out against him on the blog. He redirects, he uses logic. He behaves differently with his own kind.
I find online communication far tougher in the sense of getting an accurate picture of what is actually going on. It feels like I’m flying blind. I think this thread will teach me quite a lot. Xx
A Victor, I don’t believe every accusation that gets thrown in here. Sometimes accusations of narcissism gets thrown out of a heated disagreement. Is I really healthy to accuse someone you have never met of narcissism just because you had a disagreement? I’m not saying that it was the case here but it has happened before. Some people have a tendency to accuse people of narcissism prematurely. It can be traumatic for someone who has already gone through so much verbal abuse in life and went here to learn and understand what they experienced in life.
MP, thank you for “It can be traumatic for someone who has already gone through so much verbal abuse in life and went here to learn and understand what they experienced in life”.
AV,
You don’t need to be on guard on the blog. It’s a safe place to discuss and share thoughts. To my knowledge, and I’m fairly confident here, HG doesn’t allow narcissists to stroll in here at the drop of a hat. He allows the obvious ones in so that we can learn. These are the gulls that Violetta jokingly refers to. The Heyoka that visits occasionally etc. It’s clear, obvious and it’s good training for us as empaths. HG gives them a little run out, then they are disappeared again. For HG to know someone is a narcissist they have to comment a few times. They comment, he spots them, then it’s game over.
Empaths make mistakes. None of us are perfect and sometimes debate gets heated. Empathy can get eroded by an external stressor and we might lash out. An empath might lash out at HG, sometimes at another empath. If a commenter is new, it’s hard to tell if this lashing out is by an injured empath or by a narcissist. Again, we look for red flags and patterns in behaviour.
The long term commenters on the blog are empaths. That’s fact. They might be grumpy empaths occasionally, but empaths they are. Please don’t look over your shoulder wondering if the person you are talking to is a narcissist. They won’t be. We don’t all have to get on and connect equally with everyone here, that’s just life. Similarly we don’t need to be on the lookout for narcissists all the time in here either.
HG asking Duchessbea for proof is exactly right. It might not be easy to prove if the account info is being accessed in the same home, hopefully there will be enough to go on.
Once Duchessbea has or hasn’t done this I’ll explain more of my thinking. This is the only time I have called narc on the blog and I had specific reasons for doing so. HG left the thread to run and there will be a reason for that. It’s unusual, but there will be some valuable learning to draw from it.
Xx
TS,
Looking over your shoulder, being on guard, and looking for red flags is exactly what you should do on this blog. I agree for the most part that most on here are empaths, I disagree that the only narcissists on here are the ones that fly in when HG leaves the door open, I speak from experience that some narcissists come on board and even HG is not 💯 sure if they are or aren’t until that masks slip. Empaths have kind hearts and most want to help protect and in sure new people come on here feeling accepted and unafraid to comment, sometimes being the one that supports them is exactly what they ( the narcissist ) are looking for. Remember most narcissists do not know what they are. Please be careful TS. Xx
Hey FM1T,
Really, I didn’t know that ! I could have sworn that HG had commented previously that he lets the gulls in occasionally but that narcs aren’t allowed to reside on his blog.
I see what you mean, it takes time for a Mid Ranger to show themselves as they believe themselves to be good people. There are indicators, but we need to see repetition to be sure. HG would be first to spot this, but even he needs to see the mask slip. Once it does, I assume they are shown the door! Some will be more obvious than others.
Thank you for the comment, I understand what you are driving at. Head up eyes open, I will, thank you FM1T. Xx
Hi TS, I have been watching all of this with interest, you and Asp Emp being very brave by the way, braver than I currently am. One thing it has made me wonder is regarding assuming narcissists would be shown the door. The blog is public, if there is no upheaval, they could be quite useful for our learning. If we can pick them out here, not that we would say anything necessarily, we can hone our skills of detection. Also, even if we are not willing to go so far as to “call narc” even if only to ourselves, it seems like a good place to bolster skills of assertiveness, when we see something awry, speak up. Not all the time, some things would not concern us. But, that is just what you and Asp Emp did here. It also caused you to write out a fabulous list of the questions you have regarding the other person, more learning. All that to say, I do think we need to be aware here, not suspicious or worried, just aware, and this exchange made me realize that. It makes sense to me, HG can use their presence to help our learning, he will not let it go too far, so it is a safe place to do so. This is what I recently wrote on another thread that I did not receive in my home growing up, instruction on who to trust and how to know, and also a safe place to practice those skills so that I would not be as vulnerable out in the real world. These conflicts make me quite uncomfortable, that is putting it mildly actually, but maybe HG sees an opportunity and that is why he would allow it to continue. I really have been impressed with what you picked up and succinctly stated, I learned a lot from that! Asp Emp as well. Thank you both for that!
AV, thank you for your words. ‘Brave’ – I was pissed off! Then I ‘swam’ the emotional seas – again. Even though it was a difficult couple of days – in some way, it was positive for it to happen – it is now available for ‘visual’ learning for some people (present and future). Further insights into narcissism, the affects of narcissistic abuse, how different empaths react / respond (including their way of ‘thinking’), you know all this.
I say positive – because instead of people sharing their experiences on this blog, in this instance and on this “occasion” – it was ‘live’ learning / interaction.
“HG can use their presence to help our learning, he will not let it go too far, so it is a safe place to do so” – yes, it’s a safe place on this blog. Even though I was directly affected, I have to say now, HG did right by moderating and allowing the comments through – he knew how I would react / respond. I am glad TS did ‘take part’ by detailing her list of points. I was not happy to see her being treated in responses by the ‘perpetrator’ because of her support to others on this blog, me included. She did not deserve to be spoken to like that. Neither did I, to a degree.
I would say that from my ‘experiences’, I did not learn anything new – there were certainly ‘reminders’ of my alcoholic narcissist mother, her physical and verbal abuse when drunk. There is a big difference in between being a child and an adult experiencing alcohol abuse by a narcissist, through a narcissist and being the ‘brunt’ of it. So, if it came across (and it did) that I didn’t “care” because I understood perfectly RE: narcissism & alcohol.
Sometimes “lessons being learned the hard way” can be the only way to learn – (for those present / future KTN students) – harsh, but my saying this is indicative of my education and how far my ET / LT can be ‘measured’. I did ok, I think. Maybe ‘passed the exam with flying colours’, including the black and white ones 😉
I also could see how other empaths were (either quietly or voicing) offering support to all concerned / involved. I appreciated that. I don’t respect HG any less for this whole ‘experience’ of the last couple of days, he did respond / comment as appropriate yet it was not ‘heeded’, despite prompts from other empaths.
HG, once again, thank you for your support. Thank you for moderating the comments. Thank you for your time. And, even, thank you for the ‘lesson’.
AV,
I think your assessment is exactly right. My view was that only gulls were allowed in here. I take on board what FM1T said though and it does make sense. Some commenters post irregularly and if looking for repetition of behaviour that would take time. Not everyone chooses or is in a position to take the detectors etc. HG will spot them early though, very early.
Empaths here are at varying stages of their journey. Some more ‘vulnerable’ in that respect than others and with different concerns about moving forward than others. HG reads us regularly. He knows where we are at in terms of recovery, strengths and weaknesses. The learning has to be flexible to accommodate that. As we talked about on another thread, what feels like conflict to one, feels like debate to another.
This thread was different for me. I don’t feel comfortable accusing people of being narcissists because I don’t consider myself expert in the field. Get it wrong and it is damaging to the accuser and unfair on the accused. This is why I used the acronym, to ask for confirmation. The fact the acronym might mean something else cast later doubt haha! That said, it’s wheels within wheels. HG saw the previous comments and would likely guess what I was asking. Soon I won’t have to say anything, just put dots! Something for him to look forward to then, good oh.
I felt strongly about what I had read. The comments felt like nails down a chalk board and they screamed narcissist. HG can defend himself, so it wasn’t that, although I do have high expectations in terms of being respectful for what we have here. Respect or lack thereof is one of my own disengagement triggers.
I couldn’t deal with the doormat comment. At all. It was unjust, incorrect and grossly unfair, particularly given that the targets of that comment were undoubtedly empaths and worse still, not here to defend themselves. People should be permitted to defend themselves.
I’m processing various things. In many ways I behaved similarly before, during and after, to the way I did with the online narc. I suspect I also made the same mistake for the same reason. There is still an element of doubt for me as to the possibility of two sisters commenting. Two DB comments did feel very different. Extremely difficult to verify that on the blog itself. As such I am not prepared to pursue it further.
I have learned things from the thread. Xx
Asp Emp,
I just read your comment to AV. Your take on the thread.
You were clearly of the same view as me because you had also spotted other comments from Duchessbea on other parts of the blog. I hadn’t seen the ‘whining’ comment until you referenced it on the other thread. You’re right, that was completely unacceptable also.
The other empaths making their presence known was very kind and supportive. I appreciated that too Asp. HG confirming my past behaviour on the blog was also welcome confirmation of the way I hope I am perceived by others. I appreciated that very much. I didn’t respond to his comment so as not to inflame Duchessbea further. I estimate HG would know that.
I had made my point and I was done once I saw her response. That’s very me. From that point on, Duchessbea could call me all the names under the sun and it wouldn’t impact. I’ve already switched off. I read, but there’s no impact. So never worry about me Asp, I’m always ok xx.
Really, I was trying to comment very little from that point on. I didn’t want Duchessbea to feel like she was being lynched. So it wasn’t that I didn’t welcome the support. It was that I didn’t want things to look like a group against one individual. In fairness the empaths here only came in to defend when Duchessbea began using provocation and insult. I think that’s right. I would have commented too in the similar situation, for the similar reasons.
So I wasn’t being ungrateful for the support if that’s how it came across. I just didn’t want to fuel a fire. DB would also be getting fuel from comments and my view was to keep that to a minimum.
It felt very uncomfortable in many ways. I have spoken to Duchessbea in the past. Not a huge amount but enough to form a positive opinion. I couldn’t deny what was in front of me though and I couldn’t not react due to the reasons I gave to AV.
One DB or two? That is above my pay grade! Only HG can make the call on that.
TS, thank you for your response. Now, you can see why I was getting more upset RE: other thread comments – being unacceptable. Your second paragraph – totally agree with you – in relation to the empaths and HG making their presence known. Of course, it felt uncomfortable for you – as well as others. No, it didn’t come across that anyone was not giving support, at all. I think people were surprised about the whole “education”.
LOL, one DB or two? For now, I’d say, one is too many LOL. Was it twins, older sister? The last comment posted – dual DB? Either way, it’s slunk off. I am aware that I am more emotionally responsive than you are – hence you responding in a different manner. You & me (and HG) are fine xx
Asp,
“I am aware that I am more emotionally responsive than you are.”
Good. I thought you were, just wanted to make sure. Xx
TS, thank you xx
TS, there was no more reply button under your great and very clear message with the points that you make, but I want to say: well done! I totally agree with you on the “doormat” comment.
That duchess’s style reminds me so much of narcex’s jumbled prose, it really makes me laugh.
But the “doormat” comment does not.
Hey Fiddleress,
As you know, I didn’t make that comment lightly. No need to explain, I know you know. Xx
Shirkette at my old job said she wasn’t going to be a doormat to her lead teacher, implying that I was being one with mine. I said I preferred to lick my battles.
Unless she was next in their cross-hairs, Shirkette is now in the same room with GrinchLady. Oh, to be a fly on the wall…
Bad, ET! Bad, BAD ET! No biscuit for you!
@#$&!
*Pick my battles
V
I’ll assume you said pick your battles to her. Lick would have been an unfortunate error that may have strengthened her position haha.
One of my favourite articles, so good to read it again.
“No raised voices. No smashed plates. No slamming doors”- ah, there it is. So good to read that I am not the only person who is ‘guilty’ of doing as such. Laughing.
My comment on an earlier post of this article “I would have still served that cake to the guests, apologising for the fact that some rat got to it first”- ah, the attitude. Sublime satisfaction.