No Contact Mistakes – Talking About Us
“Fire and swords are slow engines of destruction compared to the tongue of a gossip.”
– Richard Steele
True words indeed.
Gossip is a sure fire way to destroy your imposition of no contact.
When you have implemented no contact you will have most likely have ensured that you stay out of our way. You may not have been able to move house but if you see us standing outside of your house, you call the police or if we approach your front door you do not open it. You block our numbers on your ‘phone and do not answer any number which you do not recognise. You use your voicemail to screen calls and if you hear our voice on the recording, you immediately delete it. You shut down your social media to keep us at bay and you may even leave social media altogether. You change routes so you do not pass where we work or frequent. You make the appropriate changes to ensure that we do not approach you in person or through technology. You may not be able to move house or job, but you put in place all other steps that you can to effect no contact. If we cannot engage with you then that is an effective no contact is it not?
To a large extent it is indeed, but one of the common mistakes that our victims make is to continue to talk about us to other people. It is an understandable mistake. You have just experienced the hellish rollercoaster of being entangled with us. Whether you know exactly what we are or not, you realised you had to get out and stay out and thus you have. Nevertheless, so much of what has happened still does not make sense to you. So often you still miss us, the brilliant warmth of the golden period now missing and the frozen wasteland it leaves behind is hard to endure. It is inevitable that you discuss this with other people; your friends, your family and your colleagues. After all, they have listened to you during the tortuous ensnarement. They were the ones who comforted you as you wept, as you seethed with frustration, as you bellowed with rage. They helped you follow us, gather intelligence on other people that we were interacting with and they played detective with you as you sought to work out what was really going on.
Barely a day went by without you espousing how wonderful we were.
Barely a day went by without you bemoaning how bewildering we were.
Those around you listened. They were involved and they were living your torment too.
Accordingly, it is little wonder that your friend, who cares about you, asks when they telephone you,
“Have you heard anything from him?”
It is not a surprise when your mother rings to make sure you are okay by asking,
“Is he troubling you still?”
It is expected that your colleague brings you a coffee and his first words are,
“Any word from you know who?”
However well-meaning these people are, their continued mention of us to you acts a form of ever presence. They are continuing your addiction to us. As they recount with you the things that happened, as you revisit for the twentieth time that strange night a month ago, as you recollect what went on between you with shakes of the head and open-mouthed disbelief they are spreading and reinforcing our ever presence. We remain with you as if we were standing in the room. Your emotions remain poisoned by the mention of our name and the memory of our behaviours.
In the same way as looking at an item which we gifted you maintains the ever presence, the continued discussion of us amounts to the same thing. We remain in your mind and heightening your emotions. Accordingly, this continues your susceptibility to being hoovered. You keep being reminded of us so you may want to have some more information on us, thus you look at our social media or even message us when that half bottle of pinot grigio starts to impact on your reasoning. Your no contact remains under threat by these repeated discussions about us and even if you do not crumble and reach out to us, the fact of you still thinking about us and remaining at risk of emotional thinking means that when the hoover comes (and it invariably will) you are at a greater risk of it working on you.
Talking about us is not a solitary risk however. It is not just the risk that you are reinforcing ever presence but you are also risking the provision of fuel and the drawing of our attention.
Be under no illusion that we will have at least one Lieutenant in your camp and of course several in our own. Should you meet one of our friends, you can be guaranteed that he or she will talk about us. They will mention how we are, what we have been doing, who we are with and they will take note of your reaction. They will also be asking about you. It may seem pleasant and polite as they ask where you are living these days or how work is doing, where you have been, do you go to Rico’s any longer and if not where do you go instead. What passes for a pleasant conversation with someone who you wish to remain on good terms with, even if they are perceived as being in ‘our camp’ is indeed an information gathering exercise.
This Lieutenant in our camp will report back to us. They, for the most part, will do so innocently enough, wanting to tell us that they have seen you and to update us on what you are doing as part and parcel of the normal discussion about someone that counts to social lubrication.
The Lieutenant in your camp is there as a spy. He or she is tasked with feeding back information about you on a regular basis. What are you saying about us? How are you feeling about us? Are you hurt still? Do you pine for us? Do you curse us or want us back? Your emotions as our name comes up are noted and then fed back to us and this will provide us with some fuel because we are being told how you have reacted to us.
Furthermore, the fact you are providing fuel and information which can be used, for instance where you now work or live, who you socialise with and where, even obtaining your new contact details, puts you at an increased risk of being hoovered and your no contact failing.
You talking about us to a Lieutenant or even a member of our coterie means this occurrence will reach us. Thus we may well gain fuel but most of all you have entered a sphere of influence and thus there is the activation of a Hoover Trigger. In terms of the Hoover Execution Criteria, the bar is being lowered. This is because you have provided fuel for us and like a shark scenting blood we know that there is more fuel to be had. You remain vulnerable to us. We have also gained knowledge of a way to contact you and thus the bar falls lower still. Your interaction with somebody who is a conduit for information and fuel means that you increase significantly the risk of a hoover being deployed against you. We are emboldened and bring our seductive powers to bear on you with a Benign Follow-Up Hoover and in your fragile state there is a risk that you will fold and thus the act of gossip has destroyed your no contact.
In the way that we delete you effectively when we have a new primary source, you ought to apply the same principle when you effect No Contact. Ban the use of our name. Explain to all of those around you that you do not want to hear about us in any way. Do not, however tempting, discuss us with people around you. You may think that you can trust those in your circle but we are often able to place ‘Our Man’ in among those you think are on your side and this fifth columnist will be working against you. If you say nothing about us, this deletion will be conveyed to us and this will irritate us and raise the hoover bar on the Hoover Execution Criteria.
Even if you have not been infiltrated, you ought not to mention us in order to diminish the effects of ever presence which are caused by repeated thoughts and discussion about us.
Banish us from your mind, from your words and from the gossip of others in order to avoid weakening your resistance and causing your no contact to fail.
159 thoughts on “No Contact Mistakes – Talking About Us”
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My current partner keeps asking about “The Narcissist” but I refuse to talk about him. It’s in the past. Also, it pays to heed HG’s warnings and advice. I think my new partner is intrigued by my fascination with HG. We listened to Pawn Dark Cupid together a couple days ago.
Dearest BC30,
WHYYYYYY……
does your current partner keep asking about “The Narcissist” ? 🤔
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Fascination. Also has theories about HG already. 😂 It’s been like three days.
Dearest BC30,
Tell him nothing, he will use it against you down the track, trust me. Empath or not.
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Sage advice Bubbles!
Bubbles, is one of my mother’s more frequent advice.
I know, she’s 100% right.
Unfortunately, even when I have it in my head and I whip myself, sooner or later I will “pour out” 🙂
Dearest Bubbles, if I may ask, do you object to her sharing because its a new partner? I’m thinking the goal for me would be to find someone I can share my life with, which would include the past narcissists in my life and narcissism in general.
I talk about HG and narcissism, but not MY narcissists. He’s stopped, but he’s like me, in that, we are easily distracted by shiny objects and have to circle back.
LOL BC30! I have that same affliction!
Dearest BC30,
Just trying the protect you lovely, we empaths must stick together hehe 😜
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
I understand. I won’t talk about #1 or #2, but narcissists in general—yes.
Dearest Joa,
Your mum knows best
Being mysterious drives men nuts 🥜
Give it go, tell ‘em nothing, it’s fun 🤩
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Dearest Leigh,
I believe discussing ‘narcissism’ is fine, just not your love interests, they don’t need to know nor should they ….that’s why it’s the past, leave it there, it’s private between two people and none of anyone else’s business.
It appears this new partner is pestering BC and she has already expressed she doesn’t want to talk about it, he’s clearly not listening nor respecting her boundaries.
Plus, you tell the ‘new’ partner everything about you, then they start to judge you on your past and not from the moment they meet you.
Being a mysterious woman has many advantages….but that’s just me 🥰
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Dearest Bubbles, I really appreciate your insight/opinion/advice on these things. What you say makes a lot of sense. Thank you 😀
Bubbles, everything you wrote in this thread is worth remembering!
Take it easy, I “pour” 90-95% (it depends with whom). A lot. But there are things, I have never told anyone. Neither N1, nor even N2. I have no such need.
Although, sometimes I like to shock with something and fire from a thick caliber, but it’s a matter of many years of acquaintance.
Let it not be too boring 🙂
—————–
Typical male-female relationships do not exist anyway for me and I do not plan them. Too many complications and unnecessary effort – right now.
Funny, I don’t have time for love…
Because, when I make room for her and the impulse comes, I drop everything for her. And I can’t afford that right now.
I will not get absorbed again!
Everything or nothing. I choose – nothing.
In this one aspect, I will not settle for half measures or just anything.
Childish approach, I know, but it’s right for me and I can’t do anything about it, despite a passing of the years.
Now, I heard in my head the words of N2 (uttered when “we were bidding” our “love”):
“I don’t even allow such a thought!!!”
At least on this point we are in agreement 🙂
I have no idea, for what purpose he continues to hook me with his little hooks. I brush it off like dust from my clothes…
Dearest BC30,
Thank you gorgeous 💋
I like parsley, rosemary n thyme as well 🤣
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Dearest Leigh,
I understand where your coming from lovely and thank you for your kind response. I’ve been there many times and I know how we view relationships, it’s just that it’s not in our best interests as empaths to open up wholeheartedly. It’s certainly not what we want to hear along with pretty much everything on Mr Tudor’s blog.
The whole thing is, when we meet someone new and exciting we usually then proceed to blab to our hearts content, why, because we are 💯 % givers of ourselves and that sometimes comes at a price.
Through out my life I’ve heard men talk about their exes and it’s not kind, pretty much says more about them than their ex in my view.
It’s interesting also, when our daughter goes on a date with someone new, generally she sits and listens while the bloke pours his heart out, most have mental issues with the ex or they just big note themselves.
There’s no second date 🤣
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Dearest Bubbles,
You’ve given me a different way to look at things. Thank you. We don’t have to give away all the cookies so quickly.
Dearest Leigh,
Biscuits 😂
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
I see what you did there! Ha! Exactly!
Dearest Leigh,
Hahahhaaahaaa
You have to be quick around here 🤣
Well dun (slang) 🤣you were right on
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Dearest Joa,
Whatever you feel comfortable with and whatever works for you lovely
I think it’s an important issue not to indulge to much, particularly with a narcissist as they remember every single little detail (it can be quite alarming) Mr Tudor advocates listen more talk less, it’s so true.
Being here learning, gives us a head start on what to look out for so as not to get entangled again, where sadly and not knowing, we already gave away far too much information and found out too late.
Less is more as they say 😉
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Thank you Bubbles, you have a very soothing and calming “effect”. A bit like medicine and a bit like a slice 🙂
I don’t know how old you are, but you are producing “maternal” warmth.
I slowly read your words three times and paused for a moment longer. Thank you!
Dearest Joa,
Awww, such lovely words Joa. Thank you 🥰
I do like a ‘medicinal slice’ now n then (gf, df, vf) 😆 and my Mum’s cat feels the same ‘maternal’ warmth when she sits on my lap 😂
Mr Bubbles and I are retired pensioners. He’s nearing 80. I’m a bit younger 😂
(a respectable woman never tells her real age) haha
I seriously have to read everything three times or more (especially if I’ve misplaced my spectacles) 😂 for it to sink in hehe
Btw way, has anybody seen a comment I made about the Oscar’s and what the ‘little fella ‘ represented ? I’m buggered (Aussie slang) if I can find it ? I’d be ever so grateful .. ☺️
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
My current partner keeps asking about my past partner sets off alarm bells in my head. Not trying to upset or offend. That’s a boundary that needs to be respected. The “keeps bringing up” is also a red flag to me. I say drop it, I mean DROP IT now!
Dearest Karen,
I’m with you on this.
It’s like talking to a child, where eventually they think you’ll give in because persistence pays off, send him to the naughty seat for some think time. 🤣
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Ah, Bubbles, “send him off to the naughty seat for some think time”…….laughing. I like your ‘one-liners’ 🙂
🤣 being sent to the naughty seat would not be punishment.
Dearest BC,
You can go to the naughty corner but in different rooms 😂🤣😂🤣😂
Dearest BC,
No sex ???
To be clear, it’s not a boundary and he’s not asking everyday. He’s just way more curious than I expected him to be.
Dearest BC30,
Curiosity killed the cat 😿
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Dearest BC,
Harassment killed the relationship
How so?
Dearest BC,
“You refused to talk to him about it “
The way I see it …..
If one asks out of curiosity and doesn’t stop when asked, then they are persisting, persistence then becomes provocation, provocation is a form of harassment which in turn is a form of bullying then abuse.
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Hi BC30, not sure if I could listen to a DC with a new partner…or an old partner for that matter. Maybe if it was for science.
Are you comfortable with his curiosity about “The Narcissist”? HG I can understand, he is fascinating.
Yes. I want him to do an ED. I think he’s a Standard Magnet/Geyser.
What a great idea! I’m relieved to read that you’re not worried about it and if it’s something the two of you can share, I think that’s awesome!
HG, you say talking about and thinking about the narcissist are breaches of no contact, but what about dreaming of the narcissist? I unexpectedly dreamt of mine last night and it’s made me feel really crap today, but how do you control that?
That is a breach but it is a legitimate breach. The incidence of dreaming will reduce through the reduction of your emotional thinking through the implementation and maintenance of a total no contact regimen.
Oddly enough, I was dreaming of Will Smith!!! Laughing…..
Dearest Asp Emp,
Ohhhh you poor thing !!! Was he packing his bags to leave to leave the slimy green lizard 🦎? 🤣😂
Bubbles,
” slimy green lizard ”
Haha!
No, Bubbles, he was sat smiling, in an interview chair about a metre away in front of me, dressed in the MIB suit, no sunglasses…..and, no I don’t know who was interviewing who 😉
Dearest Asp Emp,
Reflections of his prime before his downward spiral. Gotcha 😉
Haha
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Laughing……
Thanks HG. I thought I did have a total NC regime though!
I will be the judge of that.
“Only HG can judge”
You don’t think I do, HG?
Many people think they’re in a total NCR and they’re not.
JB, he’s going to have to give me a judgement too. Shoot, I thought this was all resolved.
HG,
Well, I have followed all of your advice on here re NC regimes, so I don’t know..I guess I can’t account for my subconscious playing tricks on me!
AV,
Not necessarily..if you have done everything suggested on here, what else is there?
Well, something triggered that dream, maybe it’s okay though. Thank you JB.
JB,
When you wake up in the morning don’t give the dreams any further thought. Make sure to think about something else!
Jasmin,
I’m trying to. It’s just left me with an uneasy feeling of longing. I keeping am able to keep it suppressed most of the day, but then it hits me again.
Jasmin, this is good advice, not easy to do but worth doing. It’s been a few months but still the memory of that dream makes me queasy. I have to not think about it, focus on something else.
Hi AV and JB.
I think that dreaming is a legitimate breach of NC because most of us aren’t able to direct our dreams. (I had some ability as a child). When we wakes up we can take control and if we think about them then it is a breach of NC that isn’t legitimate.
I agree that it’s difficult. It needs force. Dreaming about the narcissist affects me much more than coming here and read about something that triggers a memory or even writing about it. I think it’s because when coming here I got the shield up. I know were I’m going and I enforce myself to ‘only’ remember and not relive, to keep myself emotionally distant. (Energy draining). No shields are up in our dreams. Even if it’s just a dream it still feels so real. When we wake up we are already emotionally effected and I think that’s why it’s so difficult!?
Difficult but possible. I hope you will manage to push ‘the narc’ away and get your ET down JB. ❤
I need to stop writing about Narc1 and Narc2 I think 🤔. Even if I do distance myself emotionally it still means thinking about them..
Thanks Jasmin. Yes I do sometimes wonder if even mentioning it on here is a good idea, as it keeps me focusing on him!
Exactly!
So far I have found it helpful, especially when HG says plainly “No contact breach.” And others give advice also and support to keep NC, and sandbagging😉. But, yes, there is a point at which it is likely no longer helpful, probably to keep going after those things have been stated or done, as above. Then it becomes dwelling, never wise.
Ambitious plan!
The reality is that, I enjoy this type of sleep for at least 2 days and think intensely before falling asleep, hoping for a repeat or a continuation 🙂
But I like to torture myself. I get bizarre satisfaction from this.
Do you mean that you think about the Ns before falling asleep?
Yes, but he is very enigmatic – fuzzy. The last time I saw him was in January 2007 🙂
He’s like a ghost. Although he has started to speak electronically and by phone for 2 years, he is still Close-Alien, Alien-Close…
I am rather focusing on the feelings contained in this dream. I used to associate him with them.
If, instead of him, there was a different character, but the same feelings – I would also contemplate it 🙂
Narcissistic, isn’t it? 🙂
JB, I can’t stand when they invade my dreams! The same thing happened to me recently and I had the same reaction. Its crazy how even just dreaming about a narcissist can effect us.
Leigh,
It’s horrible, isn’t it! I think some of the reaction was the unexpectedness of it – just happened out of nowhere! But it’s left me feeling like an addict of sorts, who has just had their drug dangled in front of them..least I imagine that is similar, never actually been addicted to anything in my life before!
JB:
I’ve been addicted to coffee, and yes it is. You would do anything to stop the pain.
Violetta,
That sounds horrible. I hope you were able to break the addiction.
JB:
It took slightly over a week. Half decaf half reg for 3 days, 3/4 decaf for 3, then decaf for three days. Did it during winter break from grad school so it would cause as little disruption as possible, though I did have a friend who called me, told me I was grouchy, then hung up after snapping, “talk to me when you’re done detoxing.” I thought, “What nonsense! I’m always grouchy,” took a nap, and woke up three hours later, shivering in 70′F weather (the Midwest is known for weird weather spikes, including snow at Easter and hail in July).
I then switched to tea, because the problem with coffee was the bromines, not the caffeine, although no tea gives me the same lift. Taylor’s Yorkshire comes close. Without that and a plant light, I’d never make it through Midwestern winters.
Violetta,
Ah at least a week isn’t too long. The narc addiction is definitely far worse in that respect!
JB:
I’m still somewhat addicted to some narcs I have known, even if it’s been years–decades, in the case of narcy teachers. Part of me wants to tell them off if I ever see them again, though the logical part of me knows I couldn’t achieve the one thing I want: to make them see they did wrong, writing me off as The Hyper Kid instead of paying attention to all the obvious signs there was a lot wrong with my family situation.
All that would happen is they would minimize, deny, and/or blame multiple victims, and if the last included my mother, I would probably end up beating their geriatric bodies into the pavement. They would die triumphantly gasping, “I told you she was disturbed!”
Violetta, Caffeine is a tough one. I gave up about 15 years ago. Now I only drink water, nothing else.
Well, water or wine, mostly wine probably hahah
Violetta,
Exactly – the logical part of you is right, you wouldn’t get anywhere, sadly!
What you said about being addicted to other narcs from the past – I think to a degree I can identify with that as well. I had no clue until coming here. All starting to fall into place now!
Alex, water and wine, a nun and a wanton in one body 🙂
—————–
Coffee – it never worked for me. I can drink 2 coffees before falling asleep and it won’t affect me in any way.
I only started drinking coffee two years ago! One a day. Coffee + lots of bitter herbs, such as e.g. sage. The bitter taste has become my favorite.
However, the staple drink has always been water. Drinks a lot. I always drank a lot. I try to limit it 🙂
JB, you’ve never been addicted to anything? I’ve been addicted to lots of things like, cigarettes, coffee, Narcsite, a great TV show.
Yes, its extremely unnerving when they pop up in our dreams. I would guess that is our addiction that wants to think about them.
Leigh, I have had addictions to things also, the feeling of withdrawal is the same and the feeling of temptation also. I think there is a point at which sometimes we might become disgusted by the former thing we were addicted to, but for me that has taken many years when it has happened. And with this addiction, no way I want to test it.
Leigh,
No, I have never been addicted to anything. I have never smoked or done drugs. I do drink alcohol, coffee, and have favourite tv programmes, but nothing I feel addicted to, so this feeling is a bit of a first for me!
The list of things, I’m addicted to, would look like a peace treaty 🙂
1.
– green olives
– pink Orbit chewing gum (for children)
– tomatoes
– blue cheeses
– a cigarette at the end of the day (basically the night)
– making several kinds of tea in the morning
– morning bath (bathtub!)
– turning small roundabouts “at ease” (by car)
2.
– digging in the ground
– looking at the sky
– my daughter’s eyes
And many others.
If these things are missing:
1. It irritates me, but when I have to, I can do without them.
2. It would be painful for me.
The cigarette at the end of the day… Fantastic!
Just so everyone knows, I’ve quit smoking but thinking about them does bring me back joyous memories.
Do you remember how Chandler from Friends felt about cigarettes? That’s how I feel about them, lol. I know they are bad for me though so I go no contact, lol.
Filthy habit.
I agree 100%. Smoking is a filthy habit. That’s the cognitive dissonance. How can something so filthy bring joy?
The essence of the narcissist.
Oh man, it’s that hit of nicotine on your blood stream which surges throughout and feels so good for just that few seconds! Haha, I hate smoking and cigarettes but I didn’t always! I know this sensation well!
Leigh,
Allen Carr, Easy Way To Sop Smoking.
It’s excellent, written by an ex chain smoker. It removes any desire to smoke and not via medical scare tactics and horrible photos about ‘what’ll happen to you if you don’t stop smoking.”
Read this and you won’t miss them. At all. Reminds me a little of HG’s approach with his Addiction Package.
P.S It isn’t anything to do with hypnosis either!
Xx
I’m glad you commented TS. You had recommended it to me once before and I lost the damn comment. I’m going to Amazon now before I lose it again.
I really have a love/hate relationship with smoking.
Joa, wow! That is quite a list! I love ‘my daughter’s eyes’, that really made me melt! ❤❤
Leigh, love the NC ciggy comment! 😂 Well done for keeping off the cigarettes, given how much you clearly like(d) them! I have never done it, just never appealed to me really! Thank God, because given how shit I am at this (narc) addiction, I don’t fancy having any more to add to the list! 😂
Leigh, the day before yesterday night I enjoyed the triple hit of addiction (including two dirty ones :)) – (1) with one hand I stroked the moss clumps, (2) looked at the stars (3) and puffed on a turbomenthol thin cigarette (3 menthol cards in one packet, ha ha ha).
Silence, the world is asleep – the one around me. It’s just my moment. At the moment, I am not for anyone. I love this moment at the end of the day.
Yesterday it was raining and I didn’t have too much emotion (then I like it, when it whips me), so it wasn’t pleasant.
HG – “The Essence of Narcissus” in the context of joyful filthy, made me laugh a lot. Indeed 🙂
TS – when I decide to quit smoking, I do it with a sharp cut. I quit immediately. For a year, two, three… different.
I come back similarly. I lit my first cigarette, after the break, on the day N2 appeared on “my radar” (by HG).
I don’t want to quit just yet…
For now, it still gives me pleasure.
Joa, Menthol is my FAVORITE! If someone is smoking a menthol cigarette around me, I’m sunk. I still derive pleasure from it too but I want this time to be the last time I quit.
Leigh,
I remember us talking about it before. I’m a tough sell when it comes to any form of self help. My pride gets in the way. I know myself best etc etc. This guy talks sense though, and it’s not a dull read.
Plus, he lets you smoke while you read the book. That appealed to me at the time 😂
Xx
TS, I bought the book and I started reading it. I’m not smoking right now but I’ve quit several times before. Every once in awhile, I will have a cigarette though. I’d like to get to a point where I don’t ever want a cigarette. So, I’m hoping the book helps me with that. Thank you.
TS,
“Plus, he lets you smoke while you read the book. That appealed to me at the time 😂” – This did make me laugh, the bizarreness of imagining you sat reading a ‘How to stop smoking’ book whilst smoking! It’s like a comedy sketch! 😂
HG, are you a smoker? “When it suits me to do so”, I can imagine you saying..
Leigh,
You’re welcome, hope it helps.
Xx
JB,
Haha yes, it does sound funny that doesn’t it? It’s supposed to be a big thing, giving up. So it sounds ridiculous to smoke whilst you read.
You’re supposed to psych yourself up, be ready, have the day circled on the calendar, talk about it, worry about it etc etc, what you don’t expect to hear is, “ Get comfortable, relax, spark up if you like, and now let’s talk about this sensibly.”
Only an addict would talk to an addict in this way. Very logical, no scaremongering, no shock tactics, just plain speaking. That’s why his approach reminds me a lot of HG’s approach to The Addiction.
Xx
JB, I had a dream about my ex, first one in all these years, a few months ago, Nov maybe. Very disconcerting. Thank you for asking this question, and for the answer HG, “a legitimate breach” helps. It was no way intentional.
AV,
Yes it’s good to know it is considered a legitimate breach. I agree that it is disconcerting. Very much so. I was ok up until then, but I completely get what HG means about the importance of NC..you cannot afford to let your guard down even a tiny bit, because once contact has been made (well, in this case it’s just ‘dream contact’, but you know what I mean..) it awakens a feeling inside, a desperation to scratch the itch, if you like. I guess that is what addiction is..something I have no experience of, and I must say I really don’t like the out of control feeling that comes with it!
JB, I agree, I don’t like the feeling of being out of control with this addiction either. I did have a little different reaction to my dream though, it awakened a feeling of dread and even fear, even now thinking about it does the same. It has been fairly easy to block that dream because I didn’t like the feelings it ignited. I feel like being here I have been becoming prepared for the eventuality that I will see/hear from him again. I am sick at the thought and I will do everything possible not to let it happen. I need to let my kids know, if they invite him to something, let me know so I can decide if I will attend with that knowledge. It may mean that it’s time for me to move away also, something I have considered over the years. It will unfold as it will I guess and I will do what I have to in order to protect myself.
AV,
Sorry it made you feel that way 😔 I guess the silver lining is that your brain has blocked it out, and you have been able to think about how you would deal with his potential reappearance. I just feel like I have had some kind of hit, and am chasing another. I will fight it though, not going to allow my brain to control me instead of the other way round!
JB, Yes, that’s probably the silver lining. With HG’s instructions I am prepared for the possibility but I really hope it never happens. Provocation today was a good reminder for me why I am so afraid of him getting back in.
I am so sorry for how you’re feeling. You are wise to control your thoughts.
It’s a completely different type of dream, than I have with “my N”. Safety is the predominant feeling in my dreams. A wave of warmth and childish delight.
(Absurd feelings, considering he’s an idiot, oops, sorry “Love” :)).
—————–
Such dreams, as you describe, I had with my stepfather. Murderous. Death of loved ones. Escape. Fear. Fear. Fear. Aggression. Aggression. Aggression.
I haven’t had such dreams… in about 15 years.
He used to come back to me in dreams for several years after the last time I saw him. Very often.
I feel sorry AV. I hope you will break free of this someday, as I did.
Joa, the dream wasn’t bad except that he was there, talking to me, and I knew what he was doing. He wanted back in at some level. He is never allowed back in. I also hope i can be free of any dreams going forward. This is the only one I’ve had, if i have another I will control it and stop them. I can do that, I’ve done it before.
Thanks, AV.
It might never happen, but I guess we just have to prepare for the possibility that it might. Personally, I don’t think my narc will ever come back. I don’t think they all return especially if they consider us too much hassle to bother with! Always a good idea to be prepared though!
Interesting re your dreams AV and JB, slightly digressing but I wonder whether some Es have the opposite of aphantasia? aphantasia, in which some people are unable to visualise mental images. I don’t have aphantasia but I’m pretty close to it. I wonder if that helps me to get over things more quickly? I guess the visual image of people in my minds eye allows me to forget quite quickly. I’d be really interested how others score.
Alexissmith, I have very vivid dreams and don’t have trouble with mental images except soon after a loss for a period of time. During that time I am always afraid that the memories won’t come back, but they always have, when I’ve wanted them to. In the instance of my ex, and our marriage, I didn’t want them to and I am very able to block those things. They have come back a lot now, since being here on narcsite where I’ve been doing so much processing of them. Also, the bizarre thing about my dream was that it happened right before he came up as to visiting with my daughter’s family, not the most recent where it was at my old house, but just that they have seen him. That timing freaked me out quite a bit. Like I was hoovered in my own dream, it still bothers me.
But as to visualizing mental images, I am superb at that. I can easily see the end result of decorating or gardening or such, sometimes not seeing anything between point a to that end result. People will say, but…what about…and I say, nope, it will be perfect, go for it, this does occasionally result in less than ideal results, haha. But, I love my ability to do this, it is almost visceral for me, the joy of seeing in my mind the finished product of something. I had it even when raising my children, not so much what they would look like or do of course but just who I saw them as becoming once I knew their personalities a bit and could then decide how to best work with them to achieve those results. I am very much a task oriented person, and I like goals. Part of my task was building a relationship with them, I actually had to figure that in as such and plan for it! Anyway, sorry for the extended answer, it is something that I love and I appreciate you bringing this to my attention.
I really love when we have these kinds of conversations. They are so thought provoking.
I can’t picture the future or see the end result at all. I’ve always wondered why. Is it lack of imagination? I even force myself to try and imagine it and I can’t. I even have trouble thinking about how I want a room in my house to look like. I never imagined what my kids would be like when they grew up. Unless someone plants a seed, I can’t see it.
That’s interesting to me. I wonder what people who don’t visualize do, how things present in their mind, or a finished product or a memory or even in test taking. My kinesthetic daughter has to attach things to actions or movement for formal book learning and test taking. But she remembers every detail about active/action things, changing bedding, giving injections etc, far better than I do. On the ambulance i was too slow because I had to dig things from the book in my mind, she knows them from muscle memory that attaches somehow in her mind, it’s fascinating to me. I suppose there are pros and cons to each style of thinking/memory etc.
Wow AV, you have amazingly vivid imagery going on! I love the design stories haha great!
Yes, and what is odd is that I don’t think about it unless I think about it, it’s just how it is.
I don’t know if there’s a opposite of aphantasia (sound like the word comes lack of fantasy?) but I visualise mental images very strong and have a wild imagination. I have always been BIG on daydreaming. I enter ‘my own world’ and it feels very real to me even if I know when I ‘wake up’ that it was not!
A bit embarrassing but if I’m having a conversation in my thoughts I may well move my lips. Sometimes there are move then just lips moving!🙈
Me too Jasmin! You’re not alone, lol! Sometimes I even talk out loud, lol!
Jasmin,
I know what you mean about the lip moving. I have always found that in conversation if the other person nods or shakes their head, mine feels like it is going to start doing the same as well (not actually sure if I do then do it, or whether it just feels like it). I have no idea if anyone else experiences this, or why it occurs..maybe I am just odd?! 😂
You’re not odd. I have full on conversations in my head. I nod and smile and even laugh sometimes too.
They’re coming for you.
Ha! Probably!
I have conversations in my head also. I can see the people and see them talking. What do you see?
I don’t see anyone or anything. I kind of take on the role of both people, lol. That doesn’t sound too good, lol.
No, that makes sense, thank you!
Leigh,
I don’t mean conversations in my head though, I mean when I am having an actual real-life conversation and the person nods I feel like my head is going to do the same!
JB, it’s called “mirroring” 😉
Lol! Maybe I am odd then!
Jasmin/JB, I got a notification that Mr. Tudor responded to my comment.
I took it as a joke that the people I’m having conversations with in my head are coming for me.
Ha! He’s probably right!
Coming for who, HG? Me, or Leigh?!
@HG
🤣🤣🤣
HG,
You wrote: -They’re coming for you”. Are you referring to the narcissists or the good doctors?? Maybe both😅
Asp Emp,
Ha ha! Yeah, I guess it is! I bet I don’t do it as well as HG though! 😂
JB, you can always practice to hone those skills 😉
It feels reassuring to hear that I’m not alone.
Now I wonder if it’s an Empath thing?🤔
My dad always talked to himself, he was a narc.
That’s really interesting Jasmin, I also daydream alot but there’s a real lack of images going on. I bet it’s funny when you talk to yourself haha
Asp Emp,
Ha ha don’t think I want to! I don’t like it at all. I always feel weird, like the other person must see me doing it (that’s if I actually do it, I think it’s possibly just the sensation that I am going to nod or shake my head, but in reality my head doesn’t move.)
Leigh,
I don’t get notifications, don’t have them switched on, so no idea whether HG meant you, me, both of us, etc..! Either way, we can all be odd together! ❤ 😂
AS2016,
Would you mind explain how is your experience of daydreaming if there are no imagery? Is it just a thought process?
It is fun talking to myself although I suspect that some may think I’m crasy..
Hi AV!
When you say that your father spoke for himself, did he speak loudly then? Is it possible that he wanted you to hear?
When I wrote the question if it was an empathic thing, I rather thought of a rich inner life that spreads to our outside in the form of moving lips, gestures, nods, laughter and so on.
When it comes to speaking out loud, it’s something I can do in the following situations:
* I’ve gone to town to do some errands. When I think I’m done and go for the bike, I remember that I forgot something and say: -Oh, I need to buy nasal spray at the pharmacy too!
* I bake in the kitchen, accidentally overturn the bowl on the floor and with annoyence shout: – Damn it!
If, on the other hand, I have a conversation with a friend in my mind, I do not speak loudly but my lips move so it looks like I am talking to someone. Anyone who can read lips could certainly have read what was exchanged between me and the person in the thought. If I were to nod or gesture in the thought, it would spread from my mind to physical action.
I’m up way to late and my eyes are barely open. Hope what I wrote make any sence, haha.
Hi Jasmin,
No, my dad just moved his lips, no sound. He always looked angry when he did it but I never felt like it was at me. He was just in his own thoughts. You made sense. 🙂
Jasmin, I do the same thing, lol! If I forget something, I will talk out loud and say, “Shoot, I have to do that still.” I often go over the lists of things I have to do in my head. Sometimes I say the list out loud too. I do it at work A LOT! LOL! My coworkers have pointed it out in the past.
I think when a narcissist thinks out loud, its done to assert control and get a reaction. My narc husband does it all the time. It used to piss me off. He would say something unpleasant and I’d say, “What did you just say?” He would then say, “Oh, did I say that out loud? I didn’t mean too.” Now that I know what he is, I ignore him when he does it and just walk away.
Interesting AV! Then we know that it can not be ruled out that someone is a narcissist in case he/she moves his/her lips when it thinks.
Thats fascinating Alexis. I picture things and people in my mind all the time. What about memories? Can you visualize your memories? What about a great concert or a wonderful day you had with your spouse or children? Sometimes I see things that make me uneasy also. For instance, I have a glass stove and it pops in my head alot that one of my cats will jump on the stove while the burner is on. I also have this exhaust fan that I think is extremely dangerous. The slots on the cover are huge. I’m cringing thinking and visualizing it now. The fan goes really fast and it makes me very uncomfortable and afraid.
Since your minds eye is limited, whats that like? Often seeing something in my minds eye sparks some kind of emotion in me.
Oh okay, you see what i see, haha, for some reason it sounded different in the comment you put up above.
Hi AV, its both. Some things I can see in minds eye very clearly, others I can’t. Sometimes my memories are really sharp and other times not so much. I only remember bits and pieces of my past, especially my childhood and my twenties. Something I’ve read though, I can recall it pretty quickly. I also can recall actions that I’ve done. Sometimes if I’m rushing, I can miss a step. Later on and can even be days or weeks later, I’ll remember that I missed a step. Its freaky. I say, its the guardian angel on my shoulder reminding me.
On the other hand though, I don’t imagine the future at all. Not one little bit. I remember TS telling me once to imagine my life without my narc husband. Because she provoked that thought, I was able to imagine it. When she said it to me, my first thought was, “I’ve never pictured my life with him and as a matter of fact, I’ve never pictured my life with anyone.” At the time I just glossed over it. But now that Alexis has brought it up aphantasia, the thought popped up in my head again.
I feel like I’m a passenger in my own life and I only take the wheel when absolutely necessary.
I understand the passenger in your own life bit. I have often felt I was floating through life. It’s getting better now, I’m more in control of it than I’ve ever been, it’s amazing.
Leigh,
Feeling like a passenger in your own life – I have felt like this my whole life, and am only now starting to take steps to change this. It’s quite a realisation, isn’t it!
Hi JB, you and AV are ahead of me in this respect. I’m still in the realization phase. I’ve only taken very small steps to change it.
Well, I’m aware of it, learning and taking steps to change it, but I’m not sure ahead of you is accurate Leigh. I feel like i have a long way to go yet.
Leigh,
I’m with AV here; I would be lying if I said I had made massive changes. Personally, I feel that I am also still in the realisation stage. I have made some small changes in how I react to the narcissists in my life, and I am much more aware of how they are likely to react (and how I am too) in certain situations, but I definitely have a long way to go still!
Alexissmith,
That’s an interesting question, and one I would be very interested to know the answer to! Personally, I am a very visual person. Whenever I did exams, I could see my revision notes in my mind’s eye, and pretty much copy the answers as a result! Your theory that being (close to) unable to visualise mental images may allow you to get over things more quickly is fascinating – I never considered that there might be a downside to being so visual, but I guess for me this would be it – sometimes you don’t want the images that you see..
JB, I think you hit on something, I am very visual also. My memory works like yours, I could picture the book and read the rest answer from it in my mind. I wonder if people who don’t “see” in their mind are more auditory or kinesthetic. I do the talking to myself thing also but it’s not my primary. And it is extremely difficult for me to focus on sound without something to look at also, I often fall asleep. I use subtitles for this purpose. After my ex left, the image of my heart being ripped out of me, thrown on the ground and stomped on was so vivid, I think it is why it took 10 years for me to consider the possibility of dating again. My mind wouldn’t allow many things to be remembered, instead I got that. I have considered that a downside, aware that it held me back. Maybe it’s not that I needed that time to heal? I don’t think so and I have been pretty angry at times about losing that 10 years.
That is some skill JB! I guess as with anything there are upsides and downsides, so we have to appreciate and work with what we’ve got. I’d love to be able to do what you can wirh revision notes, but I’m not sure whether I’d trade it. Quite possibly.
AV,
That’s exactly me; I find it practically impossible to take in information if somebody is reading to me, unless I have some accompanying written info as well. I once had a lecturer at uni who used to just talk at us, and I hated it! I much prefer having either text, or a diagram, to look at whilst I listen.
I can understand that you would feel angry at losing those years. Was it during that time that you came across HG’s info?
Hi JB,
No, I found HG 18 months ago or so which put it 6 months after I had started thinking about dating again. That was when I went on the dating site and was ensnared by a narc, he’s the reason I started looking for answers and found HG. Thankfully I never met that one. The rest is history…haha! Good history too!!
Ah thanks, Alexissmith2016! Yes, think you’re right, pros and cons to everything..
Ah yes, AV, your story is similar to mine. Who would have thought you (we) could be so affected by someone you had never even met! Thank God you didn’t meet him. We have enough trouble with the narcs already present in our lives without adding any more to the list!
JB, I agree, the last thing we need is more narcs.
Ooh, I haven’t heard of something like aphantasia. Interesting.
I am very far from that. I am just the opposite.
Sometimes I disappear in my world completely. Talking to yourself, is an understatement. I have wild conversations inside and I can shout to my inner interlocutor in the street 🙂 As I go, I pick a point, and I dont no, how did i get there, because “I been” completely elsewhere 🙂 My sister is identical.
I remember feelings more than facts. I never forget my feelings (good and bad). I always exaggerate. I color the world.
The world of imagination is very close to me.
I can reject – only in the form of a pause.
Dearest JB,
That would’ve been a nightmare…… eeeeeekk!!! I would’ve felt crap as well, I shudder the thought !
You need a hug 🤗 …..there there
May you have sweet pleasant dreams tonight lovely, try to think of unicorns n glitter 🦄 sugar n spice and all things nice 🤩
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Bubbles,
Ah thank you, sending hugs to you too Xxx
Hoping it was just a one-off as it hasn’t happened since. Just now need to get rid of the feelings it has left behind..once I have worked out how to do that! Xxx
Dearest JB,
Those feelings do leave a sour taste in one’s mouth for a bit, chocolate helps 😂
We have the Anzac Day March coming up where we will see the ‘weasel’ and I always feel a tad ‘uncomfortable’ (he has a narc habit of standing out) but we don’t focus on him or any negative thoughts as I’m there for Mr Bubbles. We always keep our distance and avoid any eye contact. Thankfully the weasel hasn’t encroached on our territory (never say never) for the after March get together booze up.
Your feelings too shall pass JB, annoying as it is, but doable hehe
Best wishes lovely 🥰
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Thanks Bubbles xx I will definitely test out your theory and try the chocolate! 😂
HG,
His name comes up between co workers sometimes,even in morning meeting. Insay nothing and act like I don’t care to hear. I don’t ask and I don’t speak about him. I get irritated when he’s brought up, but I don’t get involved in the discussion. That’s the best I can do.