Knowing the Psychopath : An Uncaring Perfect Predator
I adopt a brilliant disguise. I appear just like you. I pass myself off as being like you. You look on me and see the smile, the well-dressed man who tells the jokes which make you laugh time and time again. I fix my gaze on you, my laser-like, hyper focussed gaze which makes you feel special and wanted. The subjects I speak of, the places I revisit, the images I create with my mastery of words, all of this makes you feel like I am like you.
Yet for all that I show you, you have no idea that beneath this brilliant disguise slowly beats the ice cold heart of a ruthless, uncaring perfect predator.
I understand that there are five basic emotions – anger, happiness, disgust, fear and sadness.
I do not experience anger. I experience fury, yet I am able to maintain an ultra level of control over it so that even though it may churn beneath the surface, there is no alteration in my calm and poised exterior. I present the epitome of glacial calm.
I do not experience happiness. There is simply a void which must be filled with the edifying power of fuel and the extinguishing of ennui.
I experience disgust, yet often I ensure that you never recognise that this is what is flowing through my veins as I listen to the detail of your dull, dull existence. Your day to day activities of such little consequence that I am disgusted by your lack of consequence. Yet, unless I choose to unleash that disgust, I maintain a mask of pleasantry as you flap your gums filling my ears with your tedium. Instead, I must amuse my mind with a dozen ways I would turn your monotonous dullness into scream of terror. I am sustained by the images that flicker through my mind as I calculate your fate by my skilled hands.
I am without fear. It is a stranger in these lands.
I know not sadness. It is for the weak. Such is its absence that I will not even seek to portray its presence unless in extremis and only then because I deem that it is the means to achieve that end.
You look on me and think I am like you. Yet we are of such different world. Within me awaits the precision-driven psychopath that I keep entertained with the playing of games, the accumulation of appliances, the creation of empires, the destruction of dynasties, urgent sex and certain other distractions. This amusement is important, for if I was not so amused, the outcome would be so different for those who would encounter me. The bodies would accumulate.
Stripped of what you feel, I look on the world and often feel nothing. There are times where I feel something – the rage, the hatred, the disgust, the antipathy and the power, but there are sustained periods of time where all there is, is the emptiness. Unlike the pure narcissist who must fight against this emptiness, I am able to embrace it. I am able to allow that emptiness to bleed into the world around me. I see there are times when those proximate to me experience the presence of that emptiness also. I see the shift in their countenance. The nervous flicker of their glance towards me, a sudden shift as if the temperature in the room has dropped by many degrees, a shudder which washes over them. I see then that they have felt what I am although they invariably have no idea what it signifies. Instead, they clamour for the familiarity which I am able to impose through the appearance of similarity.
There are those that think that emotion is irrelevant for my kind. That is true of my psychopathy, its relevance is applicable to my narcissism and its provision of fuel. Strip that from me and emotion would be entirely meaningless to me. I watch the world. Evaluating, assessing, calculating and selecting those who will fall prey to me. All must be controlled, but there are those who I select to entertain me. Those who must be the subjects of my game playing, those who must be drawn into my world, pull downwards into the dark depths of my ocean of malice. I am unmatched in my ability to detect those victims. I see YOU. Those who will provide me with greatest level of gratification stand out to me in the manner of their gait, their stance, the language they use and as my cold, cold gaze falls upon them, I know that it is play time.
With that my nostrils flare, I scent my prey and galvanise myself into action ready to make my way towards you and bring you into my world. Effective, calculating and hyper-focussed, all else about the world falls away as I zero in on you. My mind selects the approach, the words I shall use, I have learned the tones to apply, I have fashioned the signals to send you so that I become of your world so that I can take you into my world and play with you.
I care not for you. You are to become mine and I shall possess you, ready to distract and chase away the ever present boredom. I feel that first flicker of anticipation as the game begins as you turn and already my crystal blue stare and welcoming smile have caused you to notice me and await my attendance on you. Already you are caught in my tractor beam and savour the lifting of the ennui as I prepare to feast on you.
370 thoughts on “Knowing the Psychopath : An Uncaring Perfect Predator”
When I think of narcissistic psychopath I think Yuval Noah Harari. I saw the dead eyes and the rictus grin when he describes his ideal future for humanity.
Did I meet a psychopath last night?
So my German Shepherd starts going crazy at 11 pm. When I look outside I see a kid (around 13-14) standing against the corner of my window next to my car. When I see him – he shakes his head but stays where he is.
I go out to see what is going on – why is a kid out at this time of night anyway? My dog is not going to shut up while he is there. He says he is hiding because a large dog was chasing him. No sign of the dog – but what confused me was the lack of nerves I would expect to feel from him (contagion). He was friendly, easy-going and relaxed. Likable even. His story seemed plausible except for the lack of emotion towards something which should be scary.
I for once (something seemed off) put the padlock on the 7ft gate and this morning I found the gate bent where someone had tried to enter – there was a crowbar near it.
The thing is – after getting caught already by me – would he not fear I would know who was responsible? Very strange – or coincidence?
He’s a right little shit and I would be very concerned. He’s a bad egg and definitely up to no good. At that age he knows what’s he’s doing, also why is he out that late at night ? Again, where are the parents ?
The other day here in Australia, three girls aged 12, 13 and 14 “tortured” another 13 year old girl for four hours by beating and stabbing her for kicks. They stomped on her head and hit her with vapes n knives, They filmed and downloaded it all. Her face was swollen and unrecognisable. They all said they did it for fun.
They apprehended these 3 little psychos but being so young, probably nothing’s going to happen except a slap on the wrist.
“What we have here, is a failure to communicate” (quote from movie Cool Hand Luke)
Heaven help us !!!
I hope you reported it to the police and thankfully your wonderful dog alerted you. What a good boy/girl.
We need more Judge Judy’s.
Stay safe Enthralled, I’d be looking into CCTV.
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Thanks Bubbles, been locking up tight since 🙂
CCTV could be what I need, but you are correct in your questions – why would you allow your child to be out at that time of night? Defies logic – I would be worried about them getting hurt – or something happening to them.
I too have been reading of more and more stories about young people being violent towards others. Used to be such cases were few and shocking – still shocking but becoming more common place sadly…
Enthralled, look after yourself and make sure to keep your doors, windows and gates locked and as Bubbles says get CCTV. If this young guy is what you think he is, he could develop, or have a fascination with you particularly if you are an empath, whether you know him or not, it doesn’t matter. Unfortunately, if he does have a fascination, this generally will turn to wanting to hurt you for his own fun. I have had something similar to deal with. But don’t let it get to you. Look after yourself Enthralled and keep the gates and doors locked.
Dear Mr Tudor,
Speaking of predators, looks like Tik Tok is about to be flicked ……why am I not surprised ?
That can only be good news for the planet’s IQ.
You’re talking my language 😜 haha
Ps why do I find it weird you’re here now., posting as we type haha
Picture this, Mr Tudor coming out of the closet and having one on one paid face consultations ……. whoa !!! Epic !!! Cha Ching cha Ching 💰
Why am I laughing 😂
Here are some film characters who I suspect are Psychopaths. All terrific performances by the way.
1. Buffalo Bill – The Silence of the Lambs
2. Harlen Maguire (Also Sadist) – Road to Perdition
3. John Fitzgerald – The Revenant
Contagious, your son, the marines – ❤️🔥
Soldiers, the idea they represent and those who live it – a worrier for justice, a protector, their strength!
It’s what they must do – as with the regimes and the nazi for example, how it was mixed up. The soldiers must obey a leader even if they may understand the path this leader is taking, is wrong. Todays wars, the same problem right? Is there an active leader who is more just than the other? How do you determine it, if pre election promises are made and after not fulfilled, or the exact opposite is occurring. There must be sort of regulation in this case, which is not there and they are given the free ride of continuing. What must we really look at when we electing leaders if what we shown is a facade?
Hi Jordyguin: our military is funny. Our top leaders refused to be Trumps national guard. Told him to go to the national guard. Got fired. I come from a family of military. I think when electing: we need them badly. Membership is down. That’s not good when you consider China is rising as a military leader. This is a country where 1/3 of its citizens are in education camps. Children too. Human rights are zero. Privacy is zero. Don’t get me started on how they treat their animals. But as my one friend said why would you eat a bat, a rat, etc… very hungry. They have great poverty outside the cities. My file clerks husband goes to factories each year. Smog is so bad you can’t see 10 feet. ( ok LA was like that in the 70s). Good luck finding a toilet. I am told China is the next great threat. We need our military. Vote for those who support it. Whatever waste you think exists, imagine if the USA loses its status. We need them. I can tell you the boots on the ground work hard and are trained like no other. They are put through war simulations, trained until their feet bleed and must be proper in society. And educated at a desk on a number of things, languages needed for a new culture. My son is 8 years in. The media does not always get it right. When in Iraq, my son said the people were poor and good people. People aren’t a government.
Dani, reflecting on your question further, I gotta be honest with you and myself. Alexander the Great is my „weak point“. I adored him as a teen – I draw his portrait based on the statue which was found in 1886 near the Erechtheion on the Acropolis. I taped the portrait in the middle of one of the walls in my room and would stick more and more pieces of paper to it, expanding the drawing along the wall, portraying him and his sister Cleopatra, in the temple where he received his education from Aristotle and others, until it became a huge wall-drawing on one side of my room – I would have staring contests with it thinking about leaders, warriors, wars and history. I called this drawing „The moment of foreseeing“ – where he foresaw his destiny, his future.
Now being older I ask myself what is the cost for greatness? And is there a way of living brilliance and power without the destruction of the innocent and the nature? Where and in what form does the destruction (inhumane structuring of the society) begin and where are the empaths taken on board of the snowballing of the massacre and how can they prevent themselves from stepping in that machinery and performing what is against their nature?
I know I must always look at myself first and be consequent about my findings and the results I choose to act upon.
What do you think is the cost for greatness??
*😒weak spot not point🙄
Even with things as seemingly innocent as Hollywood, music, gaming etc, all do strongly influenced by narcs and that thinking seeps into our minds as normals and empaths. So much damage done, on so many levels.
Nothing innocent about Hollywood
I know. The evil brought to our world by narcissists is immeasurable.
A Victor, you are so right, but the evil brought by psychopaths is even worse than that brought from the narcissist.
You may be correct.
I agree with you, HG. The story of the Black Dahlia comes to my mind about Hollywood and what can happen there. I watched a movie and a documentary on her, around Halloween time last year. Hollywood isnt as it portrays itself to be, all the glitz and glamor is just surface deep. The murder, jealousy, greed and envy go much deeper and more real, not to mention all the inappropriate treatment of children, like Shirley Temple and Corey Haim. The Me Too movement also brought into light, the treatment of some adult actresses and actors in Hollywood. It makes me grateful for my stagefright and having no desire to be a performer in Hollywood. I feel bad for those who got bit by the Fame bug and jumped in that moesh pit, just to be chewed up and spit out.
As a teenager, I read two parts of “Hollywood Wives” by Jackie Collins. It wasn’t high-end literature, but it had something “attractive” about it and it effectively disgusted me described lifestyle.
It’s not show family. It’s show business.
Hi Contagious and Joa,
You’re right, Contagious, but it’s a dirty, backstabbing business…one some people don’t survive to tell their story.
I was surprised about Hollywood from the Me Too movement and I understand how a novel can turn your stomach to the realities of Hollywood and the lifestyles there. I have a friend, who moved from California, and she said, it has beautiful weather, but it’s hell on Earth, if you don’t have the big money. She hated it there, the crime, the people struggling, she said, it was worse there. I haven’t been to California myself, so I can’t give my personal opinion about living there, or even visiting there.
Rebecca: 1 out of 10 live in California. It’s the 5th GNP in the world. We have Hollywood, tech, farm, etc… it’s a big state or country with problems like any other. Hollywood is not like other manufacturers it’s an insecure business that rides on consumer tastes filled with nepotism, unions ( btw writer strike coming) and highs and lows but it’s big risky business. No one smart puts their own money in a film in Hollywood. And banking on winners is key. The internet has changed things for film and music so it is changing slowly and the Métoo movement help d end the casting couch but no doubt it still goes on sadly.
Dearest A Victor,
Totally AV …..excellent comment !
My perception of “Hollywood” and those in it has changed immensely. I don’t have time for any of them…. except one, Keanu Reeves hehe. I was however, very amused by Hugh Grant ….good show ! Thanks Mr Tudor for your follow up video.
I watched a video by Candace Owens talking about the Narcissistic Kardashian Cult. Very interesting ! It’s extremely worrying and concerning how much influence these narcs have on their followers these days. I loathe reality shows as well.
I’m actually happy with the way I look, my laugh lines, my aging gracefully. It defines me.
I don’t want to look like a duck or have that plastic fake look …there’s plenty of fake people already…. we certainly don’t need more. Look at all the botched face n boob jobs.
It’s all going to come back and bite them in the bum …..which is probably fake too 🍑
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Bubbles! Keanu as John Wick though!! A good man portraying “a bad man doing a good job”! 💪 .. there is that dignity in how the character is moving through the circumstances to gain his freedom..
Similar to Neo, but here he is not the “good” one, but the “bad” who is but the good. Reeve’s theme😂
Just goes to show what a good actor he is J
We have actually watched the John Wicks movies …our daughter keeps us ‘on the ball’ and ‘finger on the pulse’ so to speak haha
I loved John Wick, the first was the best! There’s so much about that character , that appeals to me and the movie has my Justice and Anger traits grinning with satisfaction. It felt good to watch it. 😁
Bubbles: my son asked me what life was like pre internet. Having a phone with a cord. Lol. I said it’s a mix. I love the connection to knowledge and the world and to connect with family members far away BUT I think the youth crisis and mental health crisis is due to it. Young people look at people like the Kardashians ( and Kim is my age) and others and compare and feel insecure etc… they look at friends posts and feel excluded or worse failures. The internet is often as much as a fraud as thinking that neighbors marriage is perfect. You don’t know. But it has been proven social media has harmed our children greatly. My son agreed!
Our kids went thru school without mobile phones, internet or social media. They survived on books, dictionary’s, hard yakka, playing outside, having friends and relying on poor ol mum n dad for some knowledge and wisdom….
poor buggas 🤣
I feel there were fewer distractions and we spent more time with family and friends. We worked harder on relationships.
We had backyards with home grown vegetables and fruit trees. Baking was the norm. Everyone is glued to their phones now. We’re over saturated with everything. We’re become easily distracted. The internet has created more anxiety and depression and isolation has become overwhelming to a lot of people. Social communication is so different now. We’re too soft and covered in bubble wrap. We become the sensitive generation and now there’s the abundance of Karen aggressors.
The Kardashians are false and are laughing all the way to the bank. Their kids will suffer in the long run.
We may be intellectually smarter, and tech savvy but it’s made us dumber in so many ways. We are actually destroying ourselves at an alarming rate along with this beautiful planet .
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
I completely left off “privacy” from my comment.
“WE WANT PRIVACY, WE WANT PRIVACY” 🤣
One of the most important factors ever ! ( my brain tends to have many after thoughts …..must be an empath thing hehe )
Nothing appears to be off limits these days, NOTHING !
I just had Facebook ‘thrust’ this newsfeed before my delicate eyes (whilst enjoying my Sunday morning coffee) of a previous MAFS Martha and Michael couple. They had a baby and her nipple milk duct was clogged so they thought it a grand idea for him to suck on it to get it flowing and in the process felt they needed to video this and share with all n sundry.
This is just gross, unnecessary, private, nobody cares and know one needs to know. When is all this going to stop?
China must be having a field day watching everyone make fools of themselves.
Is nothing scared anymore ?
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Dearest A Victor,
I forgot to mention Brendan Fraser ….he’s a good one…. along with Keanu ☺️
Thanks. Since learning about narcissism and it’s impact on so much in the entertainment world, in our culture at large as a result, I have changed my thinking and my viewing habits also. It is disgusting to me to think that narcissistic values and mindset is being eaten up daily by most in the world. Even if it is from a shock value standpoint, it still impacts our minds and tolerances.
Keanu is fun, Brendan Fraser and another I like to watch is Matthew McConaughey. Even though the shows they act in are likely written by narcs!
I agree, I am happy with my appearance also, it is who I am. How is that for a sense of self? 😃
Take care Bubbles, thank you for the comments!
Victor and Bubbles! Yes, Keanu is am empath king! HG: do a series on why?
Dearest A Victor,
Having broadened my horizons with this narcissistic insight, I’ve questioned and challenged like never before. I observe thru a whole new lens with everyone from celebrities, politicians, singers, actors…..you name it.
I’ve reevaluated Matthew McConaughey and he’s evolved over the years ….he appears to a better person.
I’m very much in line with your train of thoughts AV regarding the entertainment world, sad but true.
I’m ecstatic you have claimed your ‘sense of self’ … you go girl! Should be more of it!
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Dearest Bubbles, another one of my favorite empaths is from your neck of the woods, Hugh Jackman. Great actor and great to look at, lol!
We end up not even knowing what is normal behaviour..
I really like it when HG says ‘this is what a normal person would do’ because sometimes I don’t know.🤷♀️
Yes! Jasmin, that is the same for me!! I have been so surprised sometimes at how normal people, and healthy empaths, would handle things so differently than what I learned and came to expect. It is a relief to have that information. Then, if we don’t see “normal” behavior, it serves as a red flag. It also helps me to slow down and not react from my old understanding but instead process how I really want to respond and then do so accordingly.
Also when we see normal behaviour (now that we know it’s normal) this may tell us that this person do not have a need to assert control over us. Some of the normal behaviours that before came off as strange to me (because it wasn’t what I expected) is now a green light instead.
On Thursday I was with my daughter on another visit to the hospital. Her previous surgeon (female) was hopeless. She ordered the same tests 4 times without any sense (I had already come to her with SPECIFIC results and a diagnosis from another doctor) and postponed the operation for several months, knowing how my daughter was suffering from pain and that if it got worse, it could lead to a life-threatening situation.
Very unpleasant remarks to my daughter, an elusive kind of abuse. Objective treatment.
I was able to change surgeon in this hospital. The daughter was booked for an expedited operation. Unfortunately, there has already been inflammation. The new surgeon amazed me with her empathic approach. When she did the ultrasound, she said to my daughter: “Dear child, mouse, I am so sorry, that you suffered for so long.” Then a ball of emotion lodged in my throat, that someone had finally taken action.
When we left the hospital, my daughter said in a delighted voice: “Mom, how nice the doctor was!”. I replied: “She was normal.” My daughter corrected: “No, she was very nice!”. I looked my daughter in the eye and said: “I say to you exactly the same as you say to me. The doctor was normal, because this is how EVERY person should behave.”
Joa, I’m so sorry to hear about your daughter’s health issues but I’m glad to hear she has a surgeon who will finally help her.
So true!!!reading these comments makes me feel less weird. And when HG gives those scenarios it helps a lot in order to think ahead for when certain situations may come up.
Do you think you can maybe do some videos or articles on normal behavior, so we can compare them next to narcissist behavior?? Xx
That’s a good idea!
At the moment it a bit sporadic. At HGs old channel there are these ‘tip to out the narc’ where the normals awnser is mentioned after the different schools of Ns awnser:
There’s a part 2 as well. VERY GOOD!
Hi Jasmin, you hit the nail on the head! We’re so used to narc behavior we often don’t recognize normal behavior when we see it.
I try to pay attention to the people that Mr. Tudor has already confirmed as normal or an empath. He has a series on YouTube of 10 Famous Empaths + 1 Bonus Empath. His Will Smith series is very informative as well. I also make it a point to watch his videos on Catherine, Princess of Wales. (I hope I got that title right. I’m trying to score brownies points, lol.) He just did a video on Jacinda Arden also.
I know these individuals are empaths and not normals. But their behaviors will give us a barometer of how normals or empaths act vs. how narcissists act.
Whoah, awesome! Looking forward to more material on the psychophath. 👍❤️
Its nice to see you Leela. I hope you’re well.
The thing which I find even more peculiar is, you as an empath have to learn to apply coldness and indifference in order to get a solid no contact regimen which otherwise would not work. Well yes, you apply indifference to their lies and not their true motivation or feelings, but isn’t a true feeling a big wound which motivates them (to lie) after all? In order to free yourself, you must apply that which created them – ignorance to them, as their LOCE was inflicted on them via a traumatic experience. In this process, by freeing yourself, lies the hurt of them and you. And it can’t be done in another way. Because if you don’t do it, they continue to hurt you, destroy you. So it becomes the game of survival, either you or them. Wound on wound.
I understand that it must be in this case. As long as the indifference don’t take hold of the empath, I’d say you have no other choice than be like that to certain very dangerous people. And if it does, you slowly may become indifferent more and more, accepting ideas and norms which will sustain the battleground, continuing to provide the LOCE on a small and big scale.
I reflect on what is shared here and put my thoughts perhaps in a brusk manner at times as all this topics stir me up, yet please don’t feel attacked or critiqued. Whenever I write „you“ I include myself in that. As I want to find a better understanding of what matters in life and how it can be lived without a constant infliction of pain and injustice. Lived to the fullest potential including the fiery energies and the sense of mightiness.
When I need to break away from a toxic individual, they can be either narcissist, normal, empath or narcissistic…I pull away emotionally first and develop, over time, coldness towards them and then indifference and then I’m able to completely walk away and not look back. It’s like they never existed, the indifference is complete for me. I may even forget their name after a time, rare, but it has happened with those, who were friends,but then turned out to be harmful to me. It hurts for a time, but like building a callous, the pain doesn’t hurt once you build some hardness around it. It just takes work and determination.
I think sadly in general people are just bad
That is why we have laws, the police force etc. Without laws people would just do what they want, and that would look pretty ugly.
Look at the book/story “Lord of the flies”
As mentioned before, look at war. When it breaks out and all society breaks down, people behave like animals.
There is a myth that humans are good. It is simply not true
Look at how our food is produced. How animals are treated. How people spread over the world like a virus destroying the natural habitat of animals. All they care about is me me me. How they look, if they have the latest smart phone. Themselves. Basically.
If you ask me, and this is just my opinion
Most human beings are narcissistic. They may have rose tinted spectacles on their eyes, living in a bubble not wishing to see the truth.
If we did not have civilised society and certain rules in place. It would look very ugly indeed.
I love this scene from the matrix.
Where the smith says that “humans are a virus”
Matrix is a very interesting film!! I was thinking about it just recently.
About the words of Smith you mentioned; when I observe little children, I see that they are perfect – they are not a virus. It is what they are put through as they grow up, make some of them behave in that way.
Painful to witness all of it. I think if we are given the ability to see it, understand it, we are also equipped to do it differently. In our own lives, so it would change bit by bit, slowly, but it would bear fruits.
I remember as a child I went to the trocadero Piccadilly Circus in London. There was an exibition there. It showed the most dangerous animals. Then it said, when you go round the corner you will see the most deadliest animal on the planet.
I turned the corner and saw myself. Reflected in a mirror.
Human beings are the most dangerous species on the planet. They can do good but they can also do evil.
I find it sad that this planet has so much. Everyone can be fed and have a good life, but the greed of the ones who want more, have no empathy causes suffering.
Look at our technology, it is amazing and yet humans are still the same. You only have to look at war to see that. The primitive game of the territorial pissing ground. It is sad.
📞 Heads up, Mr Anderson!
“Because I choose to.”
I have met children with concerning and sometimes even evil behaviours. I do not automatically like a person just because they are a child.
Don’t have to like them, I think, but understand them..
(the link don’t work If I click on it. I hope this one does.)
It’s the narcissistic truth No. 102. – You cannot harm emptiness
Yes, the fist link didn’t work. Is it something in the comment section you are referring to?
Understand them yes, but from a distance.
“You can’t harm emptiness.” Thank you for that much needed reminder, Jordy.
Anna, you forget that during the war – apart from what you describe – people also develop a sense of great community, the most beautiful ideas, faith, hope, cooperation to survive, touching impulses of help and sacrifice.
In the face of death and the atrocities of war – love blooms, and every ray of sunshine, every smile through tears, every blooming flower becomes an element of celebration of life in the greatest dimension.
Also what I think makes it difficult for me in understanding you is the boredom you mentioning. In fact I’m not on the one page in understanding what is meant by this word and how it feels, whenever someone would mention it. If I’m correct it is the absence of interest of motivation-action or interest of experiencing the experience, or not knowing what one want? So the motivation and achievement for your multiple results and brilliance than only lies in the narcissism and the need for fuel as it is tied to survival. So narcissism in this case is a force for moving forth and can be viewed as balancing out the boredom and giving the psychopathy a more civil frame in coexisting (otherwise the bodies would accumulate) if I understood correctly.
Coldness and indifference, as it is tied to psychopathy, is in my view responsible for sadism which can take many forms, physical and non physical. And this is interwoven in the society and became the norm and acceptable because the threshold was erased over time, so this element is not just lived by psychopaths only. And the exploitation of humans (which are viewed as dead pieces of the societal construct) and nature reached its peak. Nature or animal kingdom don’t exploit or extinct their surroundings, except the human intervenes in that chain. Nature regulates itself, stops reproduction etc. The society or civilization however do exploit and extinct as the result of the state of indifference which then leads to sadism of various forms but is not seen anymore as sadism and suffering becomes a norm. Predators in natural environment don’t extinct their prey. There is again that damn balance. How I understand psychopathy – it is a state which may evolve only for its own benefit, as it stands on the suffering of others. Perhaps there is the possibility of the recognition of this unnatural state. However I understand the difficulty for that recognition if there is the missing or dimmed empathy and so on.
Jordyguin: I don’t think all psychopaths are sadists. Most just have no conscious or a broken conscious and want what they want. Sadists are those who enjoy others pain. Not all psychopaths are sadists. Right HG?
Correct. A pure psychopath wants things and if you get in the way of the psychopath getting that thing and you must be hurt, so be it. A psychopath exhibiting sadism actively enjoys and derives pleasure from you being hurt.
Contagious and HG thank you for this explanation! Yes, I understand it’s an active exhibition of sadism of a pure psychopath.
My question is, would „inactive“ be fo example; an adult person invalidates, verbally abuse and manipulate a little child exploiting its vulnerability — is the process of crippling child’s spirit by deriving pleasure either via fuel, the sense of power, or the idea of educating the child by bending its will and spirit, physically and psychologically harming it.
Or someone working in a lab and is crippling an animal testing the effect or measure of chemical toxicity, deriving pleasure from the idea of succeeding in the professional field.
Empathy for the animal or the child would get in the way, so empathy itself must be viewed as an enemy and extinct.
I see it as a form of sadism. I don’t know how else to name it?
I feel like there are no clear videos from psychologists on the subject of narcissist vs psychopath vs both…I think that’s how I stumbled upon your work @HG. And there is nobody else who can explain it better than you. Believe me I have searched and searched for material. It can be so confusing to learn about. And I feel like you do an amazing job at conveying that psychopaths aren’t necessarily what you see on tv. my first relationship was with someone who (I didn’t know it at the time) but was diagnosed with NPD with psychopathy. Not sure what the exact terminology was but that’s basically what his mom told me. I was 14 when we met. Anybody who I met after him, even if he was disengaged, I felt like I was cheating. Like I belonged to him. I didn’t know it at the time why I had that programmed into my head. Lucky for me, I was not the girl he chose as his IPPS. It is an extremely painful experience to be in love with a person who can’t be healed. Nor does he think he needs healing and he doesn’t want to be healed. I honestly wished he were doing better in life so I can hate him. But karma hit him hard. Which is sad and scary to me. I will never not be scared of him. Not necessarily scared that he will hurt me, just scared that he will find me and fuck up my life for shits and giggles. While the whole time distracting and mesmerizing me with the dangling carrot. (Love not the one in his pants)
I dare never let him know that I am scared because that would offend his narcissism. But if I was not submissive enough then would come the fucked up mind games. And a loop of things he would say and do to keep me in my place and remind me that I was nothing and that he was everything. Without ever actually saying that. He would tell me about how violent he can be to men. And tell me about how brutal he can be. How he hated to be in the room with any other man. Which in itself put me in my place and scared me. Because in my head he was so sweet to me. But to think he could be so violent when hr was away from me frightened and really scared me into never wanting to witness it. He made me feel like I should feel lucky that someone like him would like me. It’s funny because I was in college and had been with him for 7 years (on and off) and I was taking abnormal psychology and I had diagnosed him with Antisocial Personality Disorder. But it was when he had just disengaged from me. And in the class they warned us that we might do that (start diagnosing people we knew with things as the class progressed) so I second guessed myself and chalked it up to me being hurt that he cheated on me. This was like 18 years ago before the internet was overloaded with the NPD/Empath dynamic. Trauma bonds are such a real and such a fucked up thing. I have previously considered/pondered that if the procedure done in the movie ‘Eternal Sunshine of a spotless mind’ was an actual procedure, that maybe I would get it done to erase my memory of him.
You are completely right HG about no contact regime and I find it amazing that you have the whole series on the emotional thinking and battles. Because it really doesn’t matter how much time has gone by. I underestimated the power someone could have over my mind. No matter how far removed I thought I was. Sending condolences to an ex is a huge mistake. And HG has great material on the grieving narcissist. Which I wish I would have seen sooner. He had the code memorized from years before. No matter how strong you think your mind is. Or how much time has passed, If you feel a need to contact your past, check yourself into a mental hospital STAT.
I just have to post this because it’s a good contrast to the education we receive here and it touches on the topic of psychopathy.
Also, because the YT crowd is not very conducive to sensible discussions connected to Jordan Peterson. But, mostly because I find conversations between Piers Morgan and Jordan Peterson intensely entertaining (despite the fact I mostly avoid listening to Peterson at all – but these two together, I simply can’t pass up having a listen.)
From ‘Piers Morgan Uncensored’
I can’t help laughing at Peterson’s rant (in response to a question on “Tribalism” from Morgan), starting at, roughly, 2:52 (and continuing for sometime) on online “trolls” – where he basically tars them all with the same brush.
“As we virtualize the world, we are enabling the small percentage of people – it’s usually about 3 percent of people in general populations – who use manipulation, reputation savaging, denigration and self-promotion – so the genuine psychopathic types – who dominate the social conversation and spew their poisonous and manipulative venom into the public domain…not only with no fear of being stopped and no inhibition – which is almost all applied socially – but also,while being monetized and promoted by people who run the social media channels.
And every society, forever, has had to contend with a small percentage of people who will utilize all the benefits
of society only for themselves…they contend with the fact that those people, if not brought under control, can demolish the structure of the entire society. And I think that the polarization that we’re feeling is a consequence of their untrammeled expression online. Instagram, Facebook and in online comment forums, like Twitter.”
And I l just love how he simply lumps all the characteristics of these trolls or “genuine psychopaths” together (while simultaneously taking a dig at women – but that’s a whole other discussion) :
“those who post repeatedly, say on online forums, especially in relationship to comments and you certainly see that same pattern of sadism, machiavellianism, psychopathy and narcissism characterizing the men who are also incentivized to use what used to be classic anti-social female strategies to advance themselves in the reputational hierarchy – exploiters, fundamentally.”
And then Peterson’s suggestion as to how to deal with said individuals:
The “online, cowardly, anonymous, narcissistic, pathological troll demons, who are polluting the public discourse, should be put in a different comment section and if you want to go to hell and visit the troll demons and see what they spew, you can but otherwise you can be among the normal human beings engaged in normal, civil human discourse and that would separate the bloody psychopaths from the bulk of normal, decent people.”
But the BEST part is where Piers Morgan interrupts him, after he’s gone on for sometime denigrating “psychopaths”…
JP: “Ninety-seven percent of people aren’t psychopathic, so we are talking about a small minority here, but they have the upper hand…”
PM (interrupts): “I had the psychopath test done on me actually, a lengthy questionnaire, and they concluded I was a good psychopath.”
JP: (Silence for a moment) “And what did they mean by that, exactly – do you know?”
PM (laughs loudly and states): “Apparently, I wasn’t, like, the malevolent version. It was slightly lost on me: the nuance.”
And then they go on to discuss HW and Trump – the part on HW being covered by one of HG’s previous videos.
HG – I am sure people have asked you to analyze that whole interview between Piers and Jordan – and maybe you will do in the future – so if you don’t want to post this that’s fine. But that exchange made me hyper aware of how thankful I am for the education we receive here and I look forward to more on your “Knowing the Psychopath” writings.
You are welcome.
WhoCares, thank you for sharing that info. So Piers is a “psychopath”? Bet he would have added, “but, I’m not a narcissist” 😉
Asp Emp I had to stifle my laughter at that – I am waiting to attend court (as a support for a friend) – but, thanks for the chuckle.
Hi WhoCares, good that you were there for your friend 🙂 Yes, sometimes reading comments in public waiting areas can be difficult to stifle laughing out loud, as I did at one place, I apologised to the couple that looked up at me and they were ok about it and smiled at me as if it was really ok. 🙂
Asp Emp – I could have used some humour throughout that day and the next. I endured a mind-numbing, monotone Midrange lawyer drone on and on and ON (for 2 days) while reading documents that already had been before the courts, in one shape or another, and then asking questions about the content in ways that just reframed them slightly so it was actually like asking the same question 3 or 4 times…I have never had the privilege of listening to such a boring lawyer…and the only thing I can say is he was really good at wearing down the witness. Thank goodness I wasn’t on the receiving end of that.
It also gives me renewed appreciation for my own no contact in my personal situation.
WhoCares, oh dearie me, 2 days?! And to think how much that MRN lawyer would be earning! Being an observer can give you a different perspective on your own situation. I am glad yours has been sorted out 🙂
WC, Interesting commentary on JP and his discussion with Piers Morgan.
There are points with which agree and ones with which I disagree.
Firstly, I disagree that there is a lack of sensible discussion when it comes to those who comment on his YT videos. For the most part there is a thankfulness expressed from those whose lives he has helped to move forward in a positive way and a gratefulness for the insight he helps to provide. He would not be so popular is he didn’t have something worthwhile to say, even if you don’t agree with him. There are also many women who are appreciative of his work, though some try to paint him as a misogynist in the bigger picture. It’s a perspective I don’t agree with, and hold to his work being valuable for both men and women.
The sentiment around trolls I found to be somewhat out of character, and from my perspective comes from a sense of woundedness at the onslaught he has also suffered online. It’s an area where I think he needs to take a step back from his personal hurt or injury as enjoining in the online world means that is one of the consequences. You cannot put yourself out there the way Peterson has done and not expect pushback in this current age. I’m sure a lot of that is unpalatable, but it’s a reality that needs to be confronted. I’m not sure the answer is to call these people out as psychopaths. It’s name calling that is below the standard I would expect. Besides, an element of moderation on any online forum should assist with that. I would not focus on the trolls in order to get my point across.
He’s probably right to question Piers Morgan on what the notion of a “good psychopath” means. HG has Piers marked as a narcissist, but I don’t think a psychopath. What does that mean regarding the lengthy questionnaire Piers completed? What does it mean in light of the discussion? It seems Piers could be marked as being an online troll and placed in the category JP is highlighting. It adds a twist to the discussion which really highlights the difficulty in trying to separate these people out. The idea that all trolls can be lumped into that percentage category is a little disingenuous. Someone might just be having a bad day, emotional thinking might have taken them over, perhaps a simple disagreement could be read as trolling. It’s a lot more nuanced than Peterson has indicated, at least in my opinion.
In this instance, I think a lack of objectivity has impacted the discussion you have outlined.
Thank-you for sharing your views.
“Firstly, I disagree that there is a lack of sensible discussion when it comes to those who comment on his YT videos.”
I did hesitate over my decision to use the word “sensible” – and perhaps I could have selected something different, but I didn’t want to labour over the word choice.
“For the most part there is a thankfulness expressed from those whose lives he has helped to move forward in a positive way and a gratefulness for the insight he helps to provide.”
Yes, I have noticed this thankfulness and gratitude.
“He would not be so popular is he didn’t have something worthwhile to say, even if you don’t agree with him.”
I actually did not say whether I feel he has something worthwhile to say or if I agree with him or not. However, I would expect him to have a more refined understanding of psychopathy (given who he is and his educational background) and a more professional definition or description of such individuals in lieu of “online, cowardly, anonymous, narcissistic, pathological troll demons”…as you said, it’s more or less name calling.
“There are also many women who are appreciative of his work, though some try to paint him as a misogynist in the bigger picture. It’s a perspective I don’t agree with, and hold to his work being valuable for both men and women.”
Yes, I have seen that both men and women are appreciative of his work.
Regarding “trolls”, I agree with you that “an element of moderation on any online forum should assist with that.” But Jordan Peterson’s view of how these “trolls” should be dealt with seemed pretty naive and, although I didn’t include it in my quotation, he said the division of the comment sections should be based on those who use their public names vs. those who post anonymously, which actually makes me question his intelligence.
“In this instance, I think a lack of objectivity has impacted the discussion you have outlined.”
I agree with you.
The biggest issue I have with JP, and discussions surrounding him, is commentary on his apparent empathy – specifically the over the top ones about him being such an empathetic and compassionate individual – I think those assessments of him lack objectivity.
WhoCares, thank you for sharing more of your thoughts.
I appreciate the further quotation around “trolls” and agree with your assessment of trying to create a separate section for ‘anonymous’ commenters or contributors. That is very naieve, considering some issues require an element of anonymity in order to facilitate discussion and ensure safety. I’m a little incredulous he didn’t consider that aspect of anonymity and think his reasoning may be to allow for more civil discourse – if people can’t remain anonymous then they are less likely to say things that could have a negative impact. He wants to call people out who he thinks hide behind that option when he doesn’t have the same choice. JP must face the onslaught directed at him and be answerable for what he says, unlike some others in the online world.
Jordan Peterson posted some videos at Halloween last year that had a very dark storytelling element to them. I couldn’t really appreciate them, but they were poems I think he had written which possibly reflected the darker experiences of the people he treats. There are moments where I sense him struggling with a darker side in life or in himself. I think some people hold him up as a saviour when he really is just a man. It’s a huge burden for anyone to carry. At the same time, many people, especially men, feel like they are drowning in the current world and JP is the lifeline that they need. I’ve read multiple comments from people on the edge of suicide, drug addicted, feeling their lives were worthless, lacking motivation, seeing no future, who were able to take hold of that lifeline.
I believe he struggles at times, but is sincere.
And then there is Andrew Tate…no problem guessing his psyche.
Interesting, Contagious, that you’ve mentioned Andrew Tate in relation to a discussion on Peterson.
I don’t know for sure if Tate has psychopathy in addition to narcissism but I couldn’t help noticing (when HG did his videos on Tate) that, similarly, Peterson targets/appeals to a particular niche of the male population that is looking for direction. There may even be potential significant overlap, like with incels.
Hi, I hope you don’t mind me jumping in. As I have watched hours upon hours of JP. He has covered psychopathy really well in his personality lectures, all online from as far back as 8/9 years ago, I think a lot of the earlier ones were Harvard based. I think in the context of the piers Morgan conversation he, did not frame it in an educational sense, but within the context of the conversations , which he certainly used judgemental language within.
I believe it to be something that the media has pushed re – his appeal to mainly young men, if based on his appeal on YouTube in the earlier years, that may have been more associated with the percentages of male versus female users of YouTube being disproportionately male. I think his recent tour showed a really good mix of sexes and all walks of life in the crowds.
With a YouTube subscription of 6.5M I think he is doing ok, and many value his work.
I have read maps of meaning, and both of this 12 rules books. I read the later as I was going through the earlier years post escape/ ending my relationship with the narcissist. JP helped me to see a lot within my own psyche and personality. I value his work. I think I have watched all of his lectures on YouTube. I do not agree with all he has expressed in most recent years, but as he would say. I “don’t throw out the baby with the bath water” and I know it is ok for me to still like and appreciate him without, being in complete agreement with him. Just additional thoughts to add to the conversation.
Hi EveBea, I dip in and out of Peterson’s work depending on the topic and generally find it interesting and educational. It’s interesting to see him interview other high profile people, although in this case it was Piers Morgan interviewing him. Piers has what can amount to an annoying interview style, in that he cuts over those he’s interviewing and also likes to throw in clickbait opportunities for further headlines. In that sense, he is a bit of a troll. I watched him interview Richard Dawkins the other day and the discussion about trolls also came up there with agreement they are a problem. Dawkins was very careful to not let Piers draw him out on particular topics or feeling pressured to give him more than he was prepared to give. JP may have felt he had an ally in Piers, but being the narcissist Piers is – or maybe he is a psychopath – he behaved much like the scorpion who climbed on the frog’s back to cross the river.
Anyway, glad you joined the conversation.
Agreed. Most love Trump, Tate and Peterson. Why? There are a lot of men who feel disenfranchised who are not a part of any group. No metoo. Some are good guys but are angry because of the economy today and feel labeled in a group of men wrong doers. So they seek out t hose who validate young men often just men. Some really good guys just want validation for being men. Others… not the case at all…
Snakes, commenting on other snakes and the pit which they are all in, and vying for control of, is rather like an SNL skit. Funny though, only until you realize that a great many others are not in on the joke and are increasingly embracing Peterson as a true visionary and leader rather than a danger.
I am sick of labels
What the hell is a psychopath? Really? Who fits neatly into a box?
Who are we to judge what is good and bad?
If you see Genesis, apparently Adam & Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Good or evil, depends which society you live in
Depends on their moral compass
Depends on perception.
Do we judge animals who consume their children out of fear? An apparently natural reaction to fear?
Are there vegetarian lions? Seriously
Does a lion care about it’s prey?
We base our society on morals depending upon the status quo
Some countries have the death penalty some do not
Moral outrage. What is right and wrong?
Truth is relative.
Anna: a psychopath has a brain wired differently. No conscience. Unless you don’t know right from wrong, he does not emotionally. As a child he is likely to torture pets. I heard of one putting cats in microwaves when I was as young but this guy became a rapist so in his teens. I think it is safe to say good does not rape, kill, torture at least….
The indifference for humane life sprung from the psychopaths only and have permeated the society in every aspect of life. And humans are not “predators by their very nature”! Legalized forms of sadism became acceptable and you’re blinded to this fact, because there is almost no other option to see through it, as you were educated to accept it.
Let me give you an example.
Readers who are new to the blog or been here for a while and remain sad that HG don’t do happy or feel as you – reflect on your good intentions for a moment. You are invalidating his whole life experience, placing yourself above him, not realizing it. Some of you think (unconsciously) that your fate is better and you’re better off than him. You couldn’t be more blind.
Painful is for sure the past and the fact a child was thrust into a traumatising environment and was massively hurt and couldn’t protect himself and nobody helped him. The only one who helped him was he himself. He coped and he thrived, along the consequences based on the coping which was optioned. Became a „bad man doing a good job“! who is honest about the essence of himself, not sugarcoating what he and his kind is, and helping us understand.
Yet if you are serious about feeling sad and have lots of free time – look at the consequences you may produce in your own life. The little choices you make, from what you buy to what you eat, to what you support, where your attention goes and whose checks you pay. To how much cruelty and injustice do you contribute by your own choices and whose worlds do you effect or destroy indirectly and who is suffering from that? — you end up by children, the silent and those who can’t protect or fight for themselves; from animal, nature to human life. The (unaware) ignorance you may apply to your own (happy) survival and justification without realizing where your part contributes to what makes you sad in the first place and create a sad, repetitive world we live in, in total. The circle begin and end with you. Despite your arrival in a cruel, unjust world you may become equipped to change it, yet not by blinded kindness in order to justify your „looking away“ and hiding from yourself by pitying the one who don’t experience your inverted „happy“ yet chances are high – do more active good on a bigger scale, than you (?).
Coldness and indifference never was and never will be a form of evolution, it’s the opposite. If you’re an empath and state „Humans are predators by their very nature.“ shows the capacity for this illness to have permeated your nature to its core. You were thrust in to this idea bit by bit until you believe and support it. We don’t kill for land, for resources! There is no need for it to begin with because the planet is beyond rich in everything! Humans are part of game playing of those who DON’T CARE and the article above is perfect in explaining it.
Unfortunately the reality is greed. During by Covid most countries including the USA saw 10% of corporate wealth being placed in the 1% and land. Most don’t get that banks are private families not mega corporations owned by many. Most CEOs are psychopaths. If they aren’t born there they get there by no good means. Communism was a joke look at China. Russia. It’s dictatorship or others like the USA feigned capitalism of a real dictatorship. Capitalist societies have a greater chance. Socialist societies are the same. Puppets of industry govern the world. The internet ousted it. We know. But in my opinion we are better housed and FED. World hunger has plummeted. That is the good news I think but…obesity is killing now. Drugs are killing now. So we don’t put heads on pikes. We aren’t hungry. We got fat on processed food and medicated on drugs. The closest chance to over throw is the USA as we are an armed country ready to fight. There are militias armed everywhere. It could happen. Almost did during Covid.. Iran is amazing. The women there risk death everyday. The more you press, history shows the more the chances of a turnover… but who takes over? It seems to replay. I think Mother Nature who has no financial backers will see this out. We have angered her.
Wow wow wow!!! C, have you watched it, check this out! This video exactly!!! Thank you HG!!!
Oh yes, this is it, right here.
Contagious – world hunger is increasing drastically!
This is why I hate modern food culture (fancy food, molecular gastronomy and all that crap) and product waste.
I buy and organize my kitchen so that I don’t throw anything away. We don’t open everything we want at the moment, but we eat them one by one – with expiration dates.
I think and plan when shopping, and I don’t throw everything in the basket.
What hurts me the most is throwing away meat and sausages. Some animal lost its life – so that unconcerned people would throw, for example, ham in the trash?
Unfortunately, I can’t give up meat. I even like raw meat and blood products.
Although vegan dishes are healthy and delicious!!! My sister has been a vegan for many years and gave birth to four healthy children.
So at least I try not to waste products. So at least I try use every crumb, every part of meat, vegetables and fruits.
Joa: you are right. I am corrected. Th world has food scarcity. Thank you! I was reading a USA article.
Jordyguin I agree with you but I disagree with your opinion… 99% could not change it. Most good people are just putting one foot in front of the other and trying to survive everywhere on this earth. Feeding hand to mouth. I read those in USA with the cost of living… 30% who make 250,000 a year live paycheck to paycheck. Ok bigger mortgage. . I have been to 38 countries. Most people are bewildered at what’s going on or angered about it. . No plan to stop it but they try in their little world. Kindness. Yes there are some armed and ready waiting for the next trigger to change things… at least in the USA and not all may be the good guys. My point is psychopaths are a small percent but in politics and wealth and CEOs. Who are suspected to be 1 in 4. A great percent. So in history… the starved, the landless over threw them. Now you have McDonald’s, the far, the drugged…the social media watchers, the gamers…ummm and AI is next. All of he distractions and addictions. But most countries aren’t so repressed… Iran or they are too repressed like China or North Korea to rebel. But it is my opinion Mother Nature is going to throw a curve ball… change will come then as the playing field will open.
C, yes, I see it like you as well. If you’re traveling all this countries and see it with your own eyes, is of course the best prove of how it really is.
I don’t understand the number split of psychopaths, narcs and the others. Is it 50:50 or..? And who has the power in reality??
Well, the video above your comment I just shared, take a look!
Agree here Contagious, when resources become scarce, all hell will break loose.
I thought this was brilliantly done. Listen to the intonation in Julia’s voice.
You are right on in so much of this comment, I also agree with Contagious’ assessment. Fascinating conversation, the picture is so much bigger than our emotions over another person’s emotions. And we must become cold to them, in a sense, in order to contract them in our lives. For me this has included changing a number of things. Your second paragraph is extremely insightful. And most humans are not predators by their nature, if we were, who would be the prey? No, I do not prey on narcs to have one. They seek me out and lie about what they are until they have trapped me. No, we are not all predators.
Counteract** them in our lives…
Dear Mr Tudor,
Makes me question what kind of people ran DuPont (manufacturers of Teflon) and other similar corporations. If anyone is interested, Dark Waters is on Netflix. True story of this huge chemical company dumping toxic chemical waste knowingly. They are today worth billions.
What an absolute joke!
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Hey Bubbles that shit has to go somewhere to ensure those pans are non-stick
My brother used to work there as a security guard. The company my dad worked for, was one of the contractors for DuPont. It’s a small world, indeed.
It is a small world isn’t it ?
Our son was a security guard for a time, boy, some of the stories he could tell would make your hair curl.
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Hi Bubbles xx
😂 I’m sure those stories are good ones too, maybe worthy of a camp fire and some roasted , on fire, marshmallows! 😂
My brother didn’t work there for long, he wouldn’t or couldn’t keep a job, even when he got his CDL license. He’d drive the trucks, no problem, even wanted me to go on a trip with him a few times. I didn’t go because I had a daily job I had to work at , plus I knew his almost constant talking would get on my nerves….He got fired from a lot of trucking jobs because he wouldn’t make the delivery on time. Most likely, he was busy talking to some stranger he just met and lost track of time. He’d talk to anyone, about anything and wouldn’t get the hint, when the person wanted to leave, he’d keep on talking and talking. Sorry, went on chatting there myself. 😂 xx Anyway, it’s a small world, indeed.
Dear Mr Tudor,
You’re quite correct, however, I use olive oil hehe
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
DuPont’s Teflon story is just another story from time immemorial .. Money is King .. corruption, falsification and subversion. I am pretty sure most normal humans would have been more than happy to live without PFOA-C8 (unsafe non-stick cooking pans shit) if they knew it meant disease, destruction and death for others.
Well said, couldn’t agree more, thank you.
It’s all about the money 💰
Luv Bubbles xx
I have mixed feelings about this article. I can’t help but feel there was a bit of a missed opportunity here to present a rounded view of the psychopath in context of society as a whole. Instead it portrays more of a Hollywood take on it. It delivers the shivers.
The cold and calculating predator applies to neurotypicals too. Humans are predators by their very nature. We kill for land, for resources, admittedly also for power and acclaim but humans as a race are tribal. One tribe kills or exploits another for resources and if I’m in the winning tribe, my children are fed and warm then honestly, I’m happy to be in the winning tribe, needs must. The ‘my tribe first’ approach to COVID vaccinations highlighted this in all its glory. Fairly typical of the state of the world today. Fast forward a hundred years and I think we’ll see far more of that tribal instinct showing through again.
Normals can be cold blooded killers, normals rape and steal. We only need to look at violent crime rates to know that’s the case. If psychopaths represent 1% of the population then they are either super busy or non psychopaths are in the game too.
It’s an uncomfortable truth. Humans as a species are predatory. It doesn’t sit well with people though. Civilised society prefers to have someone to cast as the bad guy. They don’t like to admit that in reality, if circumstances require, humans as a whole will and do kill each other in a heartbeat. Psychopaths weren’t solely responsible for the atrocities of WW2. Normal soldiers raped, tortured and killed for sport, mass graves are still hidden all over Europe. Ordinary Russian soldiers are doing similar right now in Ukraine.
Self control. Normals and empaths generally have more controls in place thanks to empathic traits but these are not the only deterrents to violence and anti social behaviour. Getting caught and the consequences of getting caught are a more effective deterrent at least for a high functioning psychopath. Normals are no different, deterrents have to be kept in place. We have already witnessed what unfolds when law enforcement are off the streets. We rapidly descend into chaos. People steal, they kill, they burn and they don’t just do it out of necessity, they do it for sport, they do it out of entitlement, most of all they do it because they can get away with it.
I do think the moral compass of the empath causes that specific group to self regulate a lot. That moral compass holds us steady but I wouldn’t stake my life on it in more desperate circumstances.
I think high functioning psychopaths have a valid role to play in todays world, though we might not like to admit it. If HG was going off to kill Putin tomorrow, I wouldn’t have a problem with that. I’d say, “Good luck, get it done.” So I embrace the psychopathy there, but then might see it as monstrous in another context. I accept it if it suits me then, if I see a benefit for me or my tribe, but condemn it if I don’t.
Not all empaths are the same. Not all normals are the same. Yet, we seem to view psychopaths as being all the same. That doesn’t stack up for me. I think this is what bothers me about this article. It portrays the psychopath in the way we expect, as something only to be feared and I’m not sure that’s always the case. Humans have evolved in such a way that psychopathy was necessary to drive the tribe forward, to ensure its survival, I think that’s still valid today in many respects, it’s just done differently.
I do see the point of the article. Psychopaths are not like me no matter how much they might appear to be. I also see the malignant side represented by the narcissism more so than the psychopathy. In many ways I view narcissism as more destructive than pure psychopathy. Overall, I think I just would have liked a broader, more balanced picture of the psychopath in relation to the human race as a whole.
Yes I wonder what a pure psychopath is like, in terms of how they relate to other people and what makes them different to a narcissist in how they behave and their internal processes.
I’m guessing that not all psychopaths are sadistic
To my knowledge, no, not all psychopaths are sadistic. Sadism is viewed more as a trait.
Let’s say you start with a blank canvas, a psychopathic brain. An inability to experience emotional empathy. There are various factors that would then determine the ‘flavour’ of psychopath the child would develop into.
The main factors that seem to have most influence on that are thought to be,
1. Intelligence (most important)
2. Impulse regulation ability.
3. The ability to predict the consequences of one’s actions.
Personally I would add in conscientiousness, but the other 4 seem to get top billing.
Intelligence is key, not in the stereotypical Hollywood sense though. Intelligence supports impulse regulation. Intelligence also helps the psychopath follow a train of logic as regards the ability to predict consequences for their actions. Essentially, the more intelligent the psychopath the more the psychopath can see reasons to self regulate behaviour and not be ruled by the here and now.
In terms of impulse regulation, childhood abuse affects this but not in the way we might imagine. The psychopathic child is far more capable of dealing with effects of abuse. No child should ever be abused in any way, it goes without saying. I don’t care if the child is a psychopath or not, but what I mean here is the psychopath child won’t be traumatised by abuse. Verbal abuse, they don’t care, physical abuse they don’t dwell on it, they don’t suffer flashbacks, nightmares or PTSD. In this sense they are said to have a genetic advantage to withstand abuse that non psychopathic children wouldn’t have. Doesn’t make it any more acceptable, just that they do have a genetic advantage through the psychopathy.
The key thing with abuse is what else the child won’t receive from the parent. They are less likely to be taught things such as the advantages of delayed gratification, less likely to be taught impulse control. Want doesn’t mean take etc. Cognitive empathy is important here too. An appreciation of how others feel and why, the benefits to working within an accepted social framework. Cognitive empathy offsets the most negative aspects of behaviour in non violent, non aggressive psychopaths. Abusive parents are less likely to teach this consistently. There are other intelligence led routes to learning cognitive empathy, but parental influence is incredibly impactful.
Epigenetics. Little switches on your DNA that can be switched on during formative years as a result of environment. In psychopathic brains it’s not unusual to have epigenetic switches that relate to violence or aggression. If nothing flips those switches there’s a good chance those traits won’t appear. Abuse makes it more likely for those switches to flip though and that can turn on genetic coding for high violence and aggression.
So an abusive environment can reduce impulse control, fail to teach delayed gratification and can turn on genetic coding for violence and aggression. If that is the case, intelligence is key. Impulse regulation and ability to predict consequences could steer the psychopath into finding a more legal and socially acceptable outlet for these characteristics. Military involvement for example.
There will be all kinds of factors in addition that influence the outcome, but these seem to be most referred to.
In terms of internal processes I think the big difference is the fuel and control required by the narcissist, The narcissist needs to manipulate to get the fuel. They need control over people in order to secure the fuel, as well as the instinctive response to the threat to control. As a result the narcissist needs to interact with people. Theoretically, I have what a narcissist wants (fuel) so I’m always at risk to a greater or lesser degree depending on who else is available. Not so with the psychopath. The psychopath really isn’t interested in me at all. Doesn’t really need anything from me. As long as I don’t prevent him achieving an objective, I don’t get in the way of something he wants, I’m reasonably safe. Unless I’m unlucky enough to run into one of the low functioning Hare style psychopaths with a strong sadistic streak and penchant for meaningless aggression. Otherwise, I’d really have to question what I have that they would want. Unless it’s my dazzling charm and humour……
TS, this is very interesting, thank you for writing it. The intelligence makes so much sense, high intelligence would allow the ability to become surgeons, attorneys, high ranking military etc. And the way the rest plays in us how I’ve been thinking also, was missing that intelligence piece. Great comment, thanks.
You’re welcome. Just what I’ve read, and there is a lot of conflicting information out there. Neuroscience seems to explain things more realistically in my view but it is just my view. I await HG’s further articles with anticipation.
„Impulse regulation and ability to predict consequences could steer the psychopath into finding a more legal and socially acceptable outlet for these characteristics. Military involvement for example.“
Legal and social acceptance of committing of murders.
Over what ?
It’s a spectrum with cadres too
Not to mention the sadism by in the industries where animal-testing and animals are involved! This is legalized sadism for psychopaths or emotion erased others! And who is paying their checks? The unknowing or the one who looks away and is caught in destruction.
That brought the society forth?! Good luck with that evolution.
I think you’re on to something with possibly not all psychopaths are sadistic. That puts a different slang on things for sure. But then, what happens to the dark triad, I wonder?
Dearest A Victor,
My 1st stepfather was a psychopath. He was very sadistic.
He married my mum to appear to look normal. He actually had very soft features but his eyes were empty. Once he married mum, he changed. He deliberately killed a kitten, tried to gas my brother and myself and took pleasure in hitting my mum and beating us. We were scared to death of him as he controlled all of us. He made us sit and watch him play the piano, then expect praise and applaud. He’d wake us up in the middle of the night to admire his attire. He selected and bought all our clothes, we had no choice. No wonder I’ve had sleep issues all my life.
I never liked him, I found him extremely creepy and wondered why on earth mum married him. He pursued mum with his charm and endless promises. He had a very dark secretive side. He used to go out at night til the early hours and was involved with some very undesirable shady people.
We were extremely lucky to make it out alive because the longer we were there the worse it became.
That part of my life gives me the complete horrors and it’s actually hard to talk about, however, I must, as it has helped me progress in my self-recovery love.
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Just in…. News of the day !!!!
Rupert Murdoch, 92, is to marry for the 5th time, less than a year after his divorce from Jerry Hall. Met his wife (66) just 6 months ago and proposed on St Pats day. What the frickin hell ???
Another one for the Tudorscope me thinks haha …..certainly makes a change from boring ol Prince Hazbeen and Mrs Hazbeen 🤣
Bubbles, I don’t know how you survived your upbringing with the parenting that you had (or didn’t have), but it sounds extremely traumatic. You had a more than a double whammy with a narcissistic mother and psychopathic stepfather. The worst for children is that they lack any kind of control in the situation and the terror for them is real. I’m so sorry you had to endure that and so grateful that you came out the other side of it to become the person you are today. The stories about your mother are disturbing enough, but to add this other to the mix is truly devastating. I don’t know how you came out of it sane. Some children are dealt significantly cruel blows. It’s a real testament to your strength of character that you not only survived, but in many ways seem to have thrived. I’m always grateful to know you have Mr. Bubbles on your side, even more so now <3
I am sorry you and your family had that experience. That is absolutely heartbreaking. I hope he has been fully out of your life since whatever happened. If you care to say, how was he different than a narcissist? I mean, how did you know it was psychopathy? I tend to think most psychopaths are sadistic, it is one of the traits they have. But I don’t know this for a fact. I am glad you made it out of that situation. AV💕
Bubbles, I just realized, your 1st stepfather sounds like my first father in law, right down to the kitten. Though he didn’t play the piano. An extremely abusive man with an emptiness in his eyes that I always found chilling, like he’d look at you without seeing you, without it computing. I felt so bad for his family, my ex’s life had been a living hell growing up, worse even than mine.
Rupert Murdoch would be good for the Tudorscope, I agree.
Thank you for your response lovely.
I certainly didn’t have a normal childhood, but then mum made sure I didn’t have a normal adulthood either. I struggled internally and took an overdose when I was 22, at that time I was completely on my own and had no family to turn to. Luckily, I survived and turned my life around.
When mum moved without telling me, that added further angst, however, I needed to refocus ……again.
Mr Bubbles and I are each others stability and for that I’m truly grateful and thankful.
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Dearest A Victor,
Mum went to a psychiatrist who told her to get out fast and that our lives were in danger.
So we did. It was a master removal code red operation.
He also shredded mum’s clothes and opened her mail.
He was a mummy’s boy and his mum thought he was “a good boy”.
He ended up in a psych hospital and died a very long time ago.
I recently found a photo of him amongst mum’s things and I’m viewing him thru a Tudorscope lens, so to speak hehe
Really weird sensation!
My brother distanced himself from mum and myself, moved interstate. I believe it was his way of self preservation. I know he suffered immensely and has never spoken about it. The psycho would wake my brother in the middle of the night and take him wherever he went til the small hours. We were in primary school for heavens sake!
I feel your hurt too A Victor and other lovelies here. None of us deserved the inflictions we endured, but look how far we’ve all come and that speaks volumes ☺️
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Bubbles!!!!!(((((💖))))) and your uplifting nature😂💞luv
Bubbles, so much respect for the way you have been able to turn your life around. The odds were badly stacked against you. I can completely understand the desire to end it all at an early age in the circumstances, you must have felt so abandoned. I’m really glad you didn’t succeed in your attempt. Imagine how many of us lovely empaths would have missed out on being treated to your wisdom and gentle humour? It would have been a loss to us all. I know some of the trials are ongoing, but I’m beginning to understand that is part of life and can’t ever be completely overcome. There will always be trials and we will continue to have to meet them. I imagine you’ve developed a level of resilience now that will ensure they don’t overcome you. Plus, you have a place here to help ensure that resilience will hold.
All the very best, Bubbles, sincerely <3 xox
It always amazes me what some of the most positive, resilient individuals that I know, have endured as children.
That’s so lovely gorgeous of you. Thank you ☺️
The other alternative sucks 😜
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
You are so sweet and kind and I thank you. I’m most humbled. I feel overwhelmed with everyone’s comments recently, (also under different headings) however I’m simply sharing my story. Others here have endured worse and all I’m trying to do is relate and share my experience in order to hopefully help others. My story goes back eons ago and every thing was hush hush back then and it was not spoken about. I had a ‘real’ moment where I felt sooooo unloved, totally alone, felt no purpose and made a bad judgement call on the spur of the moment. Times have certainly changed and there’s way more avenues of help available today.
Nobody, and I mean nobody is worth taking your life for. We are here for a reason and we go thru hard times to make us better. I look back and know I was here for a purpose as we all are.
We are all unique and each of us here make the world a better place even if at the time we are unsure and unaware.
The amount of those who have passed here on Mr Tudor’s blog don’t realise the impact of each and every one’s comments. I only hope those who were suffering were able to gain insight and reconstruct their lives in a positive way and see that they truly matter an have way more to offer others.
Once you can an accept the wonderful person you truly are, that’s when your life truly begins. Never rely on others to define you.
Be authentic and never let another person change you.
My parents (nor anyone else ) don’t define who I am ……I do !!!
You are all worth it and I mean that sincerely for the bottom of my heart.
One step forward one change forward.
Thank you lovely one,I really appreciate your words
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Hello Bubbles, reading your recent comments gave a lot more insight into what you experienced when you were younger. I appreciated reading about it because it helps others to ‘measure’ their own experiences. I agree that things are so different now compared to years ago ie awareness on mental / emotional health and nowadays it’s discussed more ‘openly’. You have so much strength within you and you are such an inspiration. Thank you for sharing, and your comment here is such a lovely read 🙂 xx
I often think of you as “Momma Empath”. Your words are soothing and inspirational.
Thank you 💗
I amaze myself sometimes, but here I am 😂
All you lovelies amaze me and inspire me even further.
You’re the loveliest bunch 💐
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Thanks for more inspiring words. They mean a lot right now xox
Bubbles, your warm and wise words of March 23 are touching and beautiful.
Thank you for sharing some parts of your childhood. It shows even better what kind of person you are.
Awe thank you lovely 🥰
Being a mum is about giving and nurturing… I luv it. Certainty was inherited 🤣
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Thank you sweet one ☺️
Feeling good is the only way forward for us
Luv Bubbles xx
I glad I was able to be of some help
Thank you lovely ☺️
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
You’re too kind
Thank you 💕
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Sorry, it was meant to read
Certainly wasn’t inherited
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Too funny, I didn’t even notice the error. I read it the way you meant it.
„Ordinary Russian soldiers are doing similar right now in Ukraine.“
Dearest TS, please don’t go there, like this. Members of my family and friends are currently in Ukraine and the other half are in Russia and you’d be lost for words what Ukrainians did/do as well to their own citizens, since this conflict started, many years ago. I’ll spare you the horrific details, which probably never showed up in the news feed or other informational sources – ever! Both sides are guided purposefully I very much assume. Where there is interest for control – so is the flow of the information you’ll be receiving, depending where in the world you are.
I remember, if I’m correct, hearing HG confirm in a live, the Ukrainian president is as just as a narcissist as the russian one (different school and cadre obviously).
I would’ve never imagined a war between this two brother-countries (where I spend part of my childhood) would be possible! It’s a mystery to me! Divide and rule.. is still the motto.
On your line of thinking on the Self Control – I’d like to add; there is very limited control empaths have – when their emotional buttons are pressed (which is most of the time). Having massive guilt afterwards, which can be than exploited further -> See your comment regarding the Russian soldiers (only). Not having a full picture and your empathic traits are corrupted in order to fight for the right thing, the right side. There are more sides and interests involved in this war, that’s for sure. But why should this sides enlighten us, right? It’s a strategic game. Putin want to create his legacy – as HG explained in his analysis of him. Just as the British expanded over the globe and created theirs. Just as other historic figures did at their time. I see a similarity in that movement and destruction of civilians, soldiers, countries are taken as collateral, justified consequences by all of them. An empath can’t cope with this I think. I can’t! Because we don’t have the need for control and power over other individuals, resources in that fashion of invasion. You mentioning that psychopathy was necessary to drive the tribe forward – frightens me a little and I don’t understand what you referring to? Whatever happened is what we have now. War, war, war and heavier weapons of mass destruction. Plus the upcoming manufacturing of total control via new technologies.
Dearest TS, I’d love you to expand (if you want to of course) on what do you mean by „Humans have evolved in such a way that psychopathy was necessary to drive the tribe forward, to ensure its survival, I think that’s still valid today in many respects, it’s just done differently.“
What is done differently? How is survival ensured?
The very word – survival – tells about the mindset of ours. We talk survive instead of live and having the safety of the value of our lives.
Hi Jordyguin, I think empaths can learn to control their emotions, or at the very least, their response to emotions. And also the guilt aspect, we can recognize that it’s not logical to carry guilt, in many instances. The ability to learn and change is one thing that makes us different from narcissists.
There is one particular actress HG identified as an Upper Mid-Range Elite, in my wildest dreams I’d never ever would have thought her being a narcissist. She is gorgeous and sweet, effective, professional, super intelligent and just fantastic!! Loved and respected by all. There is no bad anything about her as far as I’m aware of. It’s me who could learn from her, you know. Ahh it’s all not that simple.. I can’t place myself higher and say the ability to learn and change is one thing that makes us different from narcissists.
Hi Jordy, not a matter of placing myself higher than, not at all. It’s just a difference, that’s all. As human beings, we are all equal. There are many actors and actresses that I have been surprised by.
Hi Vic! Thank you! Got it!
Hi Jordy, in light of this conversation and another comment I just wrote, narcs place their value above ours. All the time. We don’t do that, most of us anyway. I don’t need to, I just need to get away from them.
True, Vic💖 It is unnatural to you as an empath and you don’t have the need to do that. In situations when you have to stand up for yourself in order to disengage, it actually don’t matter if you would call it or experience as – placing your value or your right to be free, above their “right” to exploit and abuse. Whatever formulation or mindset you must apply and what works for you in order to remove yourself from abuse or situations where you don’t want to be in, is perfect!
Hi Jordy, what you were is true I believe for most of not all empaths. And it correlates with your comment previously about us developing a “cold” nature, toward the narcissist. Once we see them as they are, it gets easier.
Firstly let me say how sorry I am for your situation and the situation of your family as regards the war between Russia and Ukraine. I have a friend I speak to online who is in a similar situation. His grandmother and several other relatives are in Ukraine, he and his immediate family are in Russia. He said similar to you, he is entirely opposed to the war and he is scared for his extended family.
I don’t think it’s ever truly clear. There is never one country entirely innocent and another entirely guilty and I agree, opinion will depend very much on the news we receive. Using a variety of media sources helps but it still doesn’t remove all bias. I do think Putin needs to be stopped, primarily because of his threats to use nuclear weapons and the associated risk of a Third World War and also because if he isn’t stopped, where would he go next? Moldova? Poland? I think his methods are brutal. The whole situation terrifies me if I’m honest. I agree Putin’s motivation is his legacy and there is no regard for innocent lives lost in the pursuit of that legacy. I didn’t know that HG had confirmed Zelensky as a narcissist but it doesn’t surprise me, his record won’t be without blemish either, they never are.
In terms of psychopaths driving the tribe forward, for me this has more to do with lack of fear and tendency to take risks. So if we go back in time and look at the tribe in the cave. There is a noise outside. The psychopath is the one who is most likely to go outside the cave to investigate it. If it’s a predator he seeks to kill it, if it’s a member of an opposing tribe, the psychopath is likely to kill the enemy tribe member and take his resources / weapons. Those who remain in the cave ensure the wellbeing of the tribe, the psychopath ensures its survival, takes the risks and drives it forward.
Every group needs a mix of personalities for it to become successful, and within it there usually needs to be a risk taker. So today that might be a CEO, prone to risk taking, has considerable drive, is objective driven etc, but has no regard for employee wellbeing. Another group member needs to facilitate that, not this CEO. In terms of psychopaths driving the tribe forward today, they will still be fearless risk takers in key positions. It’s done differently though, not always via war but via things like the stock exchange, currency markets, technology, even pharmaceuticals. Big business, big rewards, but success in these areas can prop up an economy, or can influence production and distribution of a vaccine. Similar skills, similar idea just done differently.
The high functioning psychopath still gets his kicks, he just gets them in a different way. If he’s successful he will still drive his tribe forward. The psychopath isn’t the only one who can do this, but he has natural genetic advantages which facilitate him being able to do it. The psychopath trader on the stock exchange who loses big on Monday, doesn’t go home and worry about the people whose livelihoods he destroyed by his deal, he gets up and does the same thing again on Tuesday and on Wednesday because it’s still the logical move to make. They don’t burn out as we would. They keep going. Doesn’t mean they don’t monumentally mess up at times though, so I don’t proclaim them to be heroes, I just think there is a valid place for them in specific areas of society.
Dear TS thank you!! I understand now how you view it!
No problem Jordyguin. Xx
A valid place for them in the society? Idk..Neeee.. All can leave except HG !
“All can leave except HG.” I get where you are coming from here and in many ways I don’t disagree with you. In actual fact I don’t 100% know where I stand on a lot of things recently.
I often look at the motivation behind behaviour when looking at character, up until recently I have viewed motivation as more weighty than outcome, but of late I’m starting to look at things slightly differently. Now I’m not so sure that motivation is the fail safe factor I thought it was. I think it holds up in some situations but not in others.
If we take HG as an example. He’s a narcissistic psychopath. We know that he has caused harm to people intentionally. We also know that the reason he produces work on narcissism is not to do good, not to help people, but to ensure a legacy. So motivation for harm puts him in the ‘bad’ box. Motivation for the ‘good’ he does here, puts him in the selfish box. So thus far in terms of motivation for behaviour he’s not looking great.
But if we look at outcomes, on balance he fares better. He intentionally does harm to people. He has a sadistic streak so will get off on doing harm to some of those people (likely those he sees as more of a challenge, grandiosity is strong in this one!) Some of those people might be deemed ‘innocent’, some might be deemed ‘dangerous’ or a large scale threat to society. We don’t know the ins and outs of it. Then if you look at his work on narcissism. How many people has he helped to escape abusive relationships? How many of those might have lost or taken their own lives if they hadn’t found him and his work? Now he’s looking pretty good. He has helped far more people than he has harmed, saved more lives than he has taken and has armed and educated empaths to save and protect themselves and their loved ones going forward. In terms of net outcome he has helped thousands, tens of thousands and directly harmed what, maybe a hundred? Not to say this hundred should be ignored.
I could say “Ah yes, but his motivation for helping is entirely selfish, it doesn’t count.” the end result though remains the same. People are helped. HG has helped far more people than I have.
Then let’s say you have an empath working in a small charity. Motivation is unquestionably good. The empath has dedicated his entire career to doing good, put his heart and soul into helping people far less fortunate.
Looking at outcomes, we expect those to be positive. Wrong, it just so happens that this charity was embezzling funds. All those funds that the empath raised, all that hard work amounted to nothing. No one was helped apart from the corrupt founders (normals) of the charity and their associated PR agency. This isn’t beyond the realms of possibility, many charity donations people make never get to the starving orphan on the screen. So in terms of outcome, the empath sits at neutral, he didn’t harm anyone but he didn’t help anyone either (other than in his daily life of course). Comparatively HG put more good out into the world than the empath despite his selfish motivation. The empath made little difference despite their honourable motivation.
What if Elon Musk is a narcissistic psychopath? I think it’s safe to say he’s a narcissist, possibly he is both. Tesla cars are supposed to help reduce global warming. Is the technology from his companies helping to prevent loss of life through natural disasters? Might it in the future? If Elon manages to populate Mars he might just save the human race should global warming destroy us all as many experts would have us believe. ( doesn’t sound believable but Elon obviously thinks it is!) Motivation, selfish, Elon has an horrific reputation as a boss, questionable behaviour as regards his own romantic relationships and his kids. Elon wouldn’t think twice or worry about injuries caused by his self driving electric cars yet, would be moved to rectify the fault because too many accidents just aren’t good for business and there are after all, always more billions to make. Motivation for Elon, bad / selfish. Possible net outcome, very good indeed. That said, if we looked at some of the other pies Elon has his fingers in, he might come out of it far less favourably.
It’s difficult to wholeheartedly say one way or the other if psychopaths have a place in society or not, particularly if you place a lot of weight behind motivation and personal relationships, but, on balance and if focussed on outcomes, some will do more good than harm, as is the case with HG. Others will do far far more harm than good. This holds true also with normals, narcissists and likely through no fault of their own, empaths. All this will happen no matter what my thoughts on it might be, the wheels will keep turning regardless.
It’s a nasty old world out there, some might say it’s dog eat dog. I agree very much with your point about what we ourselves can do. We can only try to remain true to our empathic traits and do good within our own reach of being able to do good. We can make a difference within our own spheres of influence, we have a vote and can attempt to use it to stand up for what we believe is right or, more likely, what is least wrong. I said to a friend the other day, “If every empath found and helped just one other empath to get out of ensnarement, imagine the difference that would make.” So I agree with what you said above about making a difference in the world and the impact that might have. I admire your determination.
The fact is that all the “categories” are in the world, have always been. That said, if we look at the bad vs good that each category has brought to the table as a whole, I say narcs and psychopaths far outweigh on the bad side. Our “little” good efforts, perhaps big for a few empaths, I would guess cumulatively at least equal or outweigh the cumulative evil done by narcs/psychopaths. I may imagine doing a horrific thing but the likelihood of it being done is extremely low. And even then it’s only going to be things such as castration of rapists and child molesters, a thing that the majority might see as a positive, certainly in this weighing system it could be counted as such, given the unprovoked evils done by the “other side”. So though we can pull a few out and say that their prime aims being met allowed good for a sizable group, if we pull the lens back further, it is a different picture altogether. But again, we are all here, the best we can then do is take the ” good”, hold all accountable for the bad as required.
HG teaches us not to look at motivation but rather at action, fact, logic.
TS, fascinating read! Thank you dear! Your thoughts and regards are very accurate and important for me to see!
You might be right.
Forgot to mention, I read Zelenskyy at some point suggested to drop the nuclear bomb on Kreml first, before Kreml drops theirs. What’s the truth in all this “information”? Eh, are there two of them? In english he is Zelenskyy in german Selenskyj. Never noticed it before. How unnecessary. See, even here it differs depending on the country.
Jordyguin, I really sincerely advise you to change your source of information.
The facts are as follows:
– Ukraine used to have a nuclear potential. About 5,000 nuclear warheads.
– In order to finally free Ukraine from the Russians and gain independence, Ukraine concluded the Budapest Accord with Russia, USA and UK (1994). In exchange for the final determination of borders, along with Crimea (!), in exchange for a guarantee of SECURITY in this part of the world – Ukraine gave Russia its entire nuclear potential in 1996.
Ironic, right? Trust the Cheater…
– So, how Volodomyr Zelensky, whose name you mention so often, supposed to drop a bomb on the Kremlin?
Apart from minor pyromaniac attacks of “unknown origin” on Russian territory, he has little room for maneuver.
Dear Joa, thank you for your concerns regarding Ukraine and your comments, sharing your view on this conflict.
Some of my relatives and friends stayed in Kiev and some had to leave. Some were also passing Poland. They were very grateful for the good organisation there and the help they received. Well done and many thanks to the people in your country who are helping!!!
This conflict will end one day and we’ll see what awaits us in the future. It’s excellent that we have the opportunity to learn here in this uncertain times💕
Yes, Jordyguin, we all want an end to this barbaric conflict.
The most viable option seems to be for Russia to clean up “things” on its own. Putin will get weaker and weaker – he will not stop the passage of time and external resistance is not weakening. Certainly, plans are already swarming in the heads of the Russian “Young Lions”. And the narrative can be changed very quickly – especially in Russia.
Unfortunately, it may take a while 🙁
I wish You, to be able to meet your loved ones someday in calmer times.
Jordyguin: I wrote earlier about my son as a marine. And I consulted HG as my son was trained in killing. Would that make him a psychopath? No. It’s a tragedy as psychopaths control the war there. Those fighting may be a mix of every range of human experience but they will probably never survive it whole. My father was a Vietnam vet. He didn’t. He lost every friend who was a member of his class at Norwich in that war. I don’t know what to say to you but as a daughter of a suffering vet, it goes on. I am certain there are soldiers that are psychopaths but I am very certain most are not. They are soldiers. They kill or be killed. It’s different. The focus should be why these boys are there in the first place. What sicko or norm is sending them and why. We didn’t learn anything after Vietnam. That’s certain. Do we ever? Look at history? My son says China is next….
Wow Contagious, this is an interesting comment.
I agree, the soldiers are just people trying to survive. I think the ones who move up the ranks are more likely to be the narcs and psychopaths.
Regarding your comment about them going to prison, I agree, I don’t think psychopaths consider right or wrong, I think only, “What do I need” and some are intelligent enough to recognize they don’t want to be caught and how to avoid that. Does it cause some to not do what we consider to be wrong? I think so. Until it doesn’t. Thankfully many don’t cross that line, or so we think.
Hey dear C, well said. I think though the empaths must be in minority.
My heart goes out to you and all people being affected by the events in Ukraine.
The media and world governments are selling a particular narrative, probably because they’re filling their pockets with money and gaining more power. What lies before us and what lies behind us is not as disturbing as what lies directly to our faces…
You’re saying what I’ve suspected about what we’re NOT being told. I’ve had this argument with several people in my personal life about this war. People who believe that one side is entirely to blame and think that the other isn’t doing horrible things to the innocent people who are ethnically divergent from those in power. I have a feeling it’s no better, and probably worse, than what the U.S. did to its citizens of German and Japanese descent during World War II.
I agree that empaths have a difficult time once their emotional buttons are pressed.
“An empath can’t cope with this I think.”
Are you saying you don’t think an empath could lead the kinds of world conquering campaigns that Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Genghis Khan, or others did?
Or that empaths couldn’t cope with being in the armies of these kinds of leaders?
Dani, I think what I’m saying is, I can’t understand and be ok with, that life of a human being or animal is not valued.
Jordyguin, your statement about two “brotherly” countries – is very pro-Putin.
What was this “brotherhood”? I understand, that an excellent example of this “brotherhood” was, for example, the “Great Famine” or “Starve to Death” (variously called), as a result of which 6-10 million people died in Ukraine, because Russia forcibly confiscated and stole all agricultural products.
I understand, that this “brotherhood” consists in the Russians’ conviction, that Ukraine is their property? (like other European territories).
Between Poland (my homeland) and Ukraine, not so long ago, there were terrible murders, very sadistic ways of killing Poles (the list of these ways can be found on the Internet under the slogan: Volyn – list of tortures – but I warn, not for delicate people). A large part of Ukraine used to belong to Poland.
But no one in our country (apart from some 0.01% of extreme dissenters) claims Ukraine. We tried to forget all the cruel things that happened, we helped Ukraine to grow, to be a prudent and wise neighbor state.
There are many people of Ukrainian descent in my country. In the building where I live as many as 4 Ukrainian families. In my daughter’s class, three Ukrainian teenagers. In almost every store – nice Ukrainian women 🙂
Talking to them – no one mentions the alleged “brotherhood”. It’s just the Russian version.
And let me add, that Volodymyr Zelensky won 73% of support in the elections. This also says something – especially after previous electoral fraud in this country.
No one wants war (except the Russians and those, who profit from it), but when someone attacks you, brutally kills innocents and children, laughing in your face – you have to defend yourself… and even attack.
Joa, I grew up in Ukrain/Russia (and later in Germany). Part of my family are Ukrainians and Russians. I speak this languages. I know what I am talking about when I say „brother countries“. I am not pro-anyone except human race being one family with diverse cultures and habitats. I’m aware of the conflicts and the results in all of this, more than I actually wish to talk about, since this blog is not for this matters, but for more deeper understanding why we are confronted with such conflicts in the first place. Cruelty happened on every side ever since, there is no such evaluation „who suffered more and let’s blame them“ – all suffered by the same hand of inhumane mindset which developed in certain groups of population in every country on this planet. The leaders come and go, there are few I respect and wished they’ve had more time and resources to do it better, more just and beneficial for all.
Society can’t thrive and reach a satisfying outcome if it stands on the suffering of others in all aspects of life. Especially if it stands on top of those who can’t defend themselves and are brutally damaged and exploited, including nature.
I don’t know the exact numbers, but perhaps half a population is desensitized to recognise the chain which leads to their downfall.
Anyway, I’m optimistic for the other half.
Jordyguin, you wrote very nicely, although you do not explain specifically what the alleged “brotherhood” is (from which Ukraine is so desperately cutting itself off).
Unless it is a generally accepted norm, that the “older brother” living next door (called Ork by the Ukrainians) enters your house, takes what he likes, empties your fridge (and even takes away the whole fridge) , rapes you, kills your husband and father-in-law, your children are abducted, and finally sets the house on fire.
You’re right – this blog is not a place for political disputes (although many situations from our lives are discussed here, and this war touches me to the core). So it amazes me all the more, that out of the millions of information available, you decide to write about the outdated slogan of “brotherhood” or “dropping a bomb on the Kremlin” by “Narc-Volodymyr Zelensky” (another outdated Russian narrative).
This called me to the board, even though I usually write here… about myself 🙂
I want to emphasize here, that for several dozen years Russia (CCCP) was also the “Big Brother” (so we said) of Poland. This narrative was also used by Russia in relation to all satellite states.
Although we have never allowed ourselves to be assimilated as much as in many other countries.
What is this “brotherhood” and what is this “friendship”, based on pressure and fear? And in case of the slightest resistance or manifestation of individualism, this “brother” applies a drastic humiliation of human…
It’s time to wake up from this “brotherly” dream.
And yet the USA is criticized for sending aide as is Germany for its fuel stance ( “ USA still occupies Germany after WW II) and the west while Putin visits China. This is what I read in America as if it’s wrong to support the Ukraine. Sad.
Contagious, only very short-sighted people can criticize.
If Ukraine, together with the helping countries, had not stopped this “plague” – it would have spread on a much wider scale and gained more strength. That is why I feel GRATEFUL, that Ukraine has taken the greatest burden on its shoulders.
We are not a rich country. We can only help by welcoming women and children to us, by providing humanitarian aid, by making transport routes available to other countries, by providing equipment in a fractional range.
In my country, the Germans were also criticized – for their staggering slowness and indecisiveness.
As for Putin’s meeting with Xi Jinping – we joke that Putin thinks he has eaten dinner and does not see that he is just being eaten. Others joke, that now Putin will find out what it’s like to be Lukashenko 🙂
We like to joke. It binds and sustains morale.
I agree with all you said above.
There are indeed psychopaths that lead normal lives never commit crime and are just perceived as being cold. Just like there are Neurotypicals who commit crime.
If done anonymously it is frightening how high a large majority score on the dark triad… just saying!
The dark triad, I did a tin pot online test for that. Funnily enough, I scored quite high! Haha!
Ditto, I am apparently Machiavellian.
HI TS, I really like your thoughts on this. What extent would a normal or an empath go to if they were protecting their children?
I also agree that not all psychopaths are the same. You have to take into account upbringing, education, pure psychopath vs. narcissistic psychopath & awareness vs. unawareness.
I took this article specifically from Mr. Tudor’s perspective and how the psychopathy manifests and effects him specifically. Mr. Tudor’s was brought up to be proper and polite, he’s highly educated, he’s a narcissistic psychopath and he has awareness. Remove all those things and you have a very different psychopath.
I do hope Mr. Tudor writes more articles about the subject and how it would manifest in different people. I don’t know much about psychopathy and the truthseeker in me is intrigued.
Hi Leigh, I am certain I could pass as a narcissist if I were only seen in Mama Bear mode!
Awareness vs unawareness, this is interesting, are any unaware? Is it the same as with narcissists? I had not considered this before. Or is it that they, like young HG, recognize they’re different but may or may not realize why at some point? I feel like if they realized they could do things without emotion before, during or after, they would really embrace that and it could go really strongly toward our perception of good or bad. And as TS said, you have one with training in etiquette,
Oops hit send early…
Training in etiquette but not as intelligent, that could work on their charm quotient also. TS’s part in that being the intelligence. Anyway, interesting to me also!
AV, LOL! You can’t mess with Mama Bear’s cubs!
I never even considered that all psychopaths are aware. I just assumed that there must be unaware psychopaths just like there are unaware narcissists. I assumed the less intelligent ones may feel different but may not understand why. I guess that was speculation on my part, which probably isn’t very good. I know so little about this subject but I’m eager to learn.
Leigh, same! I hadn’t considered that they would know about themselves or not?
The law says to be aware is to know right from wrong on a cognitive level. This is why so many psychopaths go to jail. They are often able to function unlike a schizophrenic. Calculate their crimes so they are believed to be “ aware.” Take a Ted Bundy who was a lawyer versus son of Sam. There is this theory of compulsions that lead to similar styles in killing. HG has not touched on the compulsions or the spectrum of psychopaths. Most prisons are filled with antisocials but many don’t kill. And not all psychopaths are bloodthirsty or sadists. I imagine he will get to more details then the “ eyes”! Can’t wait!
Same! I am looking forward to it also. Thank goodness they don’t all kill or become sadists!
Hi Leigh! What a normal or empath would do if a child were threatened? Kill him. My father was a Vietnam vet and he made me get a gun when I was divorced. He said I have no doubt you won’t use it if you were threatened but what about your kids? I got licensed and kept it locked. My children are grown. I no longer have it but????
Hi Contagious, I don’t know if I could kill and quite honestly, I hope I’m never in a situation where I have to find out.
I do feel the need to protect my children but I’ve also experienced paralyzing fear. My daughter was choking once. She was about 2 or 3. My husband was with me. All I could do was scream. He was the one that helped her. Maybe if he wasn’t there my need to protect would override my fear.
I know many on here own guns. They scare the heck out of me.
Hi Leigh: if no gun, then anything in my sight. Imagine someone raping your child. Nope. I am an empath but there is one way I would kill. Touch someone I love.
Hi Contagious, yes, I agree. I’m sure my savior would be triggered.
Hi Leigh and Contagious,
I’ve had this very debate with myself multiple times, Would I kill, if I had to? I’ve thought over it and came to this conclusion. I react in situation of danger, to myself or others, completely instinctively. There’s no slow thought of, I must do this or that…I have one quick thought or image in my head of my loved one being hurt and I react! It’s instant and quick. My adrenaline kicks in and I protect, with no thought of myself getting hurt. Leigh, like you, I hope I never have to kill to protect someone. I believe now, I could do it, if needed to be done. That’s hard to say, even harder to think about, but I hope I could live with it. I hope I never have to do it.
I have a gun, but it’s a bb gun. It would be more effective as a blunt instrument of defense, than a gun. I want to get a handgun and I did test a few out at a shooting range, back in the fall last year. My husband, MLSOMATIC, doesn’t want me to get a handgun for protection. 😂 He was with me ,and a few of my friends, at the shooting range. I aimed with the Remington and my first shot was the head of paper target, next was the stomach and then the heart. I turned to my husband and asked him, if he wanted to try the next one. His facial expression made me laugh! I smiled at him and he looked upset. I told him, I wanted to buy one. He said, no way! You’ll shot me, if I come home in the middle of the night! I told him, Why you coming home in the middle of the night? I grinned at him, while holding the gun. He laughed. I did like the Glock 9mm I tested that day, it had less backfire than the Remington did. Anyway, they had tazers, mace and night sticks. It was like an adult toy store for me. My best friend and I were looking at the different ,non lethal guns. She got one that shots, I think it was, rubber balls. Sorta like a paint gun they use, during Paintball. They hurt like hell, leave a nasty bruise,but don’t usually kill. I believe you have to hit a person in the head, to kill them with this gun. I could be wrong about that. Anyway, no gun for me…. Leigh, my dad and most of my family were military, so guns are to be respected and not feared, was my family motto. I understand how you feel about them, but the person behind them, is the real concern I have.xx
Hi Rebecca, I hadn’t thought about an instinctual response. That’s a very good point. My instincts would probably take over.
I had two friends who were shot. Once was 15, one was 12. The 12 year old was shot in the face and died instantly. The 15 year old was shot in the shoulder and survived. Both of them were shot by friends who were horsing around with thir parent’s guns. It’s why I have an aversion to guns.
Your story about MLSomatic’s reaction to you wanting a gun, made me chuckle! Lol! Don’t mess with Rebecca!
I’m sorry you lost your friends that way, that’s horrible and I understand your aversion to guns. Unfortunately, it does happen, when guns aren’t properly stored out of reach of children and some curious adults. I think there should be a form people have to read and sign, when buying a gun. The form would give a detail description of how to properly and safely store the gun, to keep people safe from their own curiosity. They might already have a form, being that I didn’t purchase one, I don’t know, if there is. It’s a preventative idea I had.
😂 The expression on MLSOMATIC ‘s face was even funnier! I don’t think his eyes could have gotten any bigger! 😂 I saw his fear and I was like, there’s some fear, check one for not being a psychopath. 😂
My best friend likes to play hit, for things like ‘punch bug’ and seeing car bras, while driving with the front passenger. She told me, if you get shotgun in my car, you have to be ready for the punch bug punches. She’s laughing and looking at me. I laugh and look her dead in the face. I tell her, don’t hit me, I hit back and it’s automatic, so don’t play that with me. It’s funny because she doesn’t do it to me often, once in a while she’ll lightly give me a punch bug, which doesn’t make me hit her back. I do just laugh and smile at her, and say, you’re lucky that didn’t hurt. You’re playing Russian roulette. 😂 I’ve come to realize it’s the amount of pain from the hit, that makes me react to being hit. I think it’s from physical trauma from being abused physically, it’s an instinctual reaction to negative stimulus and its not a Billy badass thing, I’m not tough, at least I don’t think I’m tough, but I did laugh at your comment, “Don’t mess with Rebecca!” I’m thinking, from studying HG’s work and self reflecting, that I’m more lamb, than lion….though, the lion, my mean streak, is there and a part of me. I think everyone has that flip side of themselves, so I don’t think I’m special, just have the full spectrum of emotions. Welcome to empathhood! 😂 Thanks for sharing your story and your thoughts. Xx Thanks HG for creating a place to learn and discuss narcissist and other important related subjects. Your work does good for people and that makes all the difference to me. Xx
Rebecca, LOL! I loved playing punch buggy as a kid. Sometimes I still do it too. It brings me back to my childhood, lol!
I’m much more lamb then lion too. But I have 33% geyser so sometimes I erupt. Since being here on narcsite, I’ve learned to control those eruptions. I don’t want the narcs getting fuel from me, lol.
I grew up in a bad neighborhood. Not quite the ghetto but maybe a step or two up. I was just reminded of another girl who was 17 and shot and killed by her boyfriend. I think I was 6 or 7 at the time. In my neighborhood, parents didn’t teach children to respect firearms. I agree its the person holding the firearm, not the firearm itself. I know that the good people who own a gun for protection purposes won’t use it to harm others. I definitely see a place for them, just not in my hands, lol!
I grew up in Navy housing neighborhoods, where it was commonplace for child abuse to happen to my Navy kid friends. I grew up thinking everyone was punished by their parents. However, I didn’t think your sibling trying to rape you was normal and I was ashamed of that part of my childhood. I’m still ashamed of it, like it makes me a dirty person, something less than others. I know it’s not right, but I still feel the shame. I thought my anger and resentment towards my mother and brother, meant I was a bad person…the things I wanted to do to them, the pain I felt like inflicting on them…I didn’t do, part of me still loved them and couldn’t do permanent damage to them. I thought I was bad because I couldn’t forgive them, eventhough I still loved them. I wish I could have loved them without resenting them, but that was on them, not me. It’s what they did, that made me resent them. It doesn’t make me bad, just human.
I have 25% Geyser, so I erupt too, in fact, my brother would love to torment me until I would erupt into fits of punching him. He would get off on it and laugh and laugh. I would even bloody his nose and he’d be smiling. He’d get furious, pull my hair and hold down my arms and that’s when I’d bite him. He’d like me go then and call me crazy. I was just responding to his abuse, not crazy at all. Most people would respond to such abuse. I’m not crazy.
Hi Rebecca, I’ve struggled with feeling inherently bad too. We’ve been conditioned that we’re the bad ones and that everything is our fault, so we believed it. Our ET is conning us so we stay on the Wheel of Misery.
We feel like we’re the bad ones because we have these thoughts of revenge. Then because we feel bad, we keep on trying to make it right. Your brother almost raped you. He didn’t deserve your love.
I’m sorry your brother did that to you and I’m sorry your mother didn’t protect you. You’ve been conditioned to think your the bad one, the crazy one. But your not. When you have those thoughts, knock them down. Like NA told you, shout “LIES” and boot those thoughts out of your head.
MLSOMATIC doesn’t think I’d should own a gun. He thinks I’ll just shot his ass, whenever he makes me mad. I wouldn’t do that. I would in self defense, or to protect a love one, that’s why I want a gun, not to just shot someone for pissing me off. No,not me. You’d think he’d know that.
Right now, he’s in his work shop, mad at me because I wouldn’t give into what he wanted me to do. He reacted by withdrawaling and now the silent treatment begins….ahhh, the peace…win, win for me….I wonder, if he’ll end up leaving, before I can? I never thought before as sex as a means of control, but it is for him and he doesn’t know what to do, because I won’t give in. He even said to me yesterday, he should find someone to have sex with. I told him, go for it, knock yourself out. He left the room. 😂 I don’t even care. I’m so unattached to him emotionally, that I’m numb to his manipulations now and you know what? It’s very freeing, not to care. 😂 xx
Rebecca, I often wonder if The Cat King will leave me or throw me out first. The Cat King is how I refer to my husband. It’s actually funny to watch. There his subjects, lol!
I’ve limited my fuel output so I’m hoping that might drive him away. For now, i keep saving but won’t it be a nice surprise if he leaves me first! The one really unfortunate thing for me is that he’s a victim narc so he may stick around for the residual benefits. Although, he interprets my fuel as love. Since I’m not fueling him, he thinks I don’t love him anymore. He’s 100% right. So maybe if he meets someone whose fuel is potent, he’ll leave me. Fingers and toes crossed for both of us!
MLSOMATIC is complaining about the same thing with me. I’m not giving him fuel much anymore, I give him the bare necessities and he’s saying I don’t love him anymore. I feel bad for him and I can’t help it. There’s just somethings I don’t want to do with him anymore, like sex, I don’t feel emotionally attached to him and the thought of sex with him, just turns me off. It makes me a bit sad and it makes me feel bad. Hell, I feel bad for homes that get destroyed and I cry when I dog is killed in a movie. I have friends tell me, you know the dog didn’t really die, right? Yeah, but the character ,the dog, died in the story and that’s still sad to me. I’m just a heart with limbs and a head. Xx It would be a relief to me, to not hurt him..xx
My dad did the same when my ex left, gave me my first personal handgun. We’d always had rifles and shotguns around but not something I could conceal carry prior to that. He told me to have it on me at all times, by then he had picked up on the evil in my ex, had told me at one point right before everything hit the fan that he would not be back until it changed in my home. He didn’t know what it was but he could feel it, and he was a narc. My daughter who was at college during that time told me also she didn’t want to come again on breaks, she could feel it. They had not spoken, did not know the other had said anything. She is not a narc. I think this is why my dad got me the revolver though, he knew what my ex could’ve potentially been capable of. He knew I’d use it also, to protect my children. What’s so crazy to me is that people knew nothing about what was going on and yet they knew something was going on. When I think back on that it really freaks me out. I don’t think about it much.
Sadly, you must be trained and keep the gun ready. I locked mine away. It was a PK and it was useless after the kids were grown lol. I gave it away. I did shooting and was surprised at how good I was with a gun. I double barrows dead on first time out. But… no gun anymore. More people die by them but I recall reading about a little old lady jumped in Brooklyn. She pulled out her gun and shot him. In America… don’t assume…
Hi Victor: I think our dads just saw a different world. Mine was a Vietnam vet who lost all his college friends at Norwich. I think they meant well. Says something about us and our world view that we aren’t comfortable with guns! I think about it. But I hate them. Yet… I would want one if threatened with attack. It’s this world we live in. I lock my doors and have dogs.
Yes, I was trained, it was easy from the training as a child. My kids were trained also. I did not carry it all the time, as my dad wanted, but it gave me a sense of security at the time. Now that my kids are grown I keep it locked up mostly. Still fun to go to the range though.
Good for you! I gave mine away when the kids left plus my US Marine son was here until recently. Went to bed without a worry;) I don’t know. I am licensed.
Yes I agree, this is very much from HG’s perspective and as such it’s one I’m very interested in. It reminds me a little of the video ‘Can you feel me?’ which is probably my favourite HG video. That one really crawled under my skin. So I genuinely have mixed feelings about this one. It’s not that I dislike it, it’s not that I’m not interested in the way HG views the world and his interactions, more that I want to get to the bottom of why he does and also to place it in context with what we see from non psychopaths. This focuses on a more intimate view of a personal interaction, which of course I’m interested in too.
Yes, you don’t mess with mama bear, haha, agree. Although for me personally there are other triggers that would cause a desire for me to be cruel or brutal. There was a case all over the papers a while ago. It was a case of a little boy, physically abused by his parents. There was a video I saw, it was obviously taken from a camera in the room where the little boy slept. From memory he was about 4 or 5. The video showed him waking up. He slept on the floor, he had a pillow and a duvet. He woke up and the second he did, he got up and began trying to fold the duvet up. I cried my heart out for that little boy. It still upsets me now. Clearly, he knew the consequences of his mother coming in and seeing the duvet not put away. I read on through the catalogue of injuries that little boy sustained at the hands of his parents before the mother ( she might have been his stepmother, can’t remember) finally killed him. Both parents were sentenced to imprisonment and I thought to myself, “That’s not enough.” I don’t want them ever to share a joke with another prisoner, I don’t want them fed, kept warm and allowed to take regular bloody exercise. I don’t want them ever to receive a kind word or smile. I want them both to suffer, horribly, every day for the rest of their pathetic lives. If I had the opportunity, if I could, I don’t believe I would ever get tired of inflicting physical pain on those two people. I could be quite creative with it too.
I’m right at the top end of the empathy scale. So that’s ok, my empathic traits have eroded and my trigger is my need for justice, or, one of my triggers. One of HG’s triggers is boredom. Very similar imaginings, I have a vivid imagination too, and a cruel streak it seems, just fewer and different triggers for those similar thoughts to manifest. What we don’t know is if I would actually carry those thoughts out if given the opportunity. Most would say no, my emotional empathy and moral compass would kick in. I would say, “Don’t be so sure.”
That’s an empaths view, an empath, not all empaths. All of those empathic traits moderating my behaviour, a wide empathic range. So what of the normals, with their narrow empathic range? No empathy for strangers, what prevents them from harming others? Very little, we see that every day in the news. Consequences, the risk of punishment prevents chaos.
Many people imagine doing horrific things, the difference is that most don’t carry it out. So HG’s imaginings here as he listens to the person flapping their gums, don’t really shock me. I’ve thought similar, just for different reasons.
I might plan my questions a bit more though next time I speak to him. Or not, haha!
Hi TS, we has a similar situation here in NY. The little boy was 8 years old and was forced to sleep in the garage. He froze to death. The father had custody and was a cop. The mother had visitation bur he wouldn’t allow the boys to see her. There are so many people in trouble for this case because even the school complained to CPS (Child Protective Services) and the mother would complain to the court and nothing was ever done to protect this little boy. Since he was a cop & part of the brotherhood, everyone turned a blind eye.
I completely understand about prison not being enough. He got 25 years to life. I hope they torture him in there. But I can’t do the torturing. But if I heat about it, it won’t bother me in the least. Often when I hear something bad has happened to someone as evil as that, it will tickle me.
Your comment above to Witch was very enlightening. Especially the part where you say the psychopathic child won’t feel the affects of abuse the same way. That gave me pause and made me wonder, Wwhat if they aren’t abused? Then what?
I’m looking forward to more info on this subject.
Yes I think I read about that case too. I don’t know if child cruelty is on the rise or if the accessibility of news means that we just hear about it more often. I always seem to react similarly, upset first then, when I’m done being upset, anger and fantasising about what I would like to do to the perpetrators. Often you do hear they get their punishment at the hands of other prisoners, it seems that criminals have their boundaries too as to what they view as monstrous. Same, it doesn’t concern me for a single second when I hear of that, to me it feels like justice was finally done.
Me too, looking forward to understanding more about psychopathy and from a logical source.
TS, yes I just responded to LET my thoughts on this. I agree that when I hear that these abusers have suffered or been killed at the hands of other prisoners, I considered that to be justice served.
TS & AV,
When it comes to these cases of child cruelty, I often see these people as beyond redemption. There are many more cases I have read about and somehow the punishment never seems to fit the crime. The only satisfying outcome to my mind is the death sentence. They have a chance to make their peace with God before they die. If they are not remorseful, well I’d rather not by paying my tax dollar dime on them.
LET, I go back and forth on these things with regards to the punishment of these individuals who abuse children to the point of death. On the one hand, this little boy who froze to death wasn’t shown any mercy so why should the person who took his life be given any mercy. But on the other hand, there’s a piece of me that wants these abusers to suffer the same way these children do. The truth is he probably won’t make it through prison. The prisoners will take care of it. To me, that’s a win win. Suffering and then death.
I agree LET, I don’t want them on my tax dollar and I don’t want them released ever again, the death penalty is fine for certain crimes.
Hi LET x,
Yes, agree, that’s my problem with it, the punishment doesn’t seem to fit the crime. I agree with you in terms of your tax dollar, it’s incredibly expensive to house a prisoner with a life sentence. That said, the death penalty seems too quick a punishment. That said again, prisoners are on death row for years, so maybe the tick tock of their life hanging in the balance would actually suit me better. I’ve admitted before, I’m bigger on perceived justice than I am on forgiveness or redemption. In addition, how people working in social services are allowed to get away with such blatant failures in duty of care is utterly beyond me. These kids are failed every which way, utterly heartbreaking.
I like the way you describe the ‘tick tock’ of their lives spent waiting for the axe to fall. At the same time, it’s ridiculous the appeals process takes so long where perpetrators have virtually served what counts for a life sentence before they are executed. If it was me, I’d want it over and done with, so maybe there is some weight in what you say.
The failures of social services appear to be immeasurable at times. How they allow parent’s to con them, or fail to do the necessary follow up, sometimes close cases that clearly should remain open. No doubt an overburdened system adds to the difficulties encountered. When we hear the stories and fallout from that, it seems so obvious. The element of hindsight gives us a much clearer picture of what could and should have been done. It’s so depressing when you know relatives, family friends, school teachers, neighbours, have all at some point raised the alarm, yet somehow these children still fall through the cracks. They have no protection because only the state can intervene on their behalf.
I agree, it is heartbreaking that we can’t do better as a society Xx
In this specific case about the little boy who froze to death, CPS did nothing. Neither did the court. The mother of this little boy had lost custody of him & his brother but she had visitation. But the father wouldn’t allow her to see them. She tried to go to the court, but since the father was a cop, they continually sided with him.
The father was sentenced in December. His fiance, who lived with him, was just sentenced about a week ago. There’s a whole investigation going on as to how this happened. The mother filed a wrongful death suit against the school, CPS, lawyers, supreme court justices, county executives because no one protected this little boy.
I agree, it is heartbreaking that as a society, we couldn’t do better.
I agree, we are failing as a society and we are failing children most of all. The more that the pillars of society crumble, the worse things will get.
There was a report released today about the Metropolitan police. It’s corrupt as hell and where it isn’t corrupt, police have such case loads their main objective is to just offload cases which likely wouldn’t even make it to prosecution. I don’t believe that every single police officer is corrupt and I feel heart sorry for the genuinely hardworking ones getting tarred with the same brush, it’s a tough and largely thankless job but it really does highlight just another failing in our society. The pillars are crumbling rapidly now. I don’t think these problems are unique to my country, I think it’s a similar story in many places.
I’m getting steadily more disillusioned by the day.
Leigh, I hope that mother takes them for every penny they’re worth. The fact that not one of those services saw fit to intervene for the sake of her child because his father was a cop tells a story all of its own. The services are so intertwined. There’s no easy way to separate them as referrals are made, though they should operate independently from one another. That element of independence will need to be looked into now as its obviously fallen short in this case, a long way short with the death of a child.
Hi LET, I agree. She’s suing for 200 million dollars. She probably won’t get it but at least everyone knows now that the system failed this little boy and maybe some of them will even lose their jobs.
Hi Leigh: years ago, I was waiting on a trial. I sat in a courtroom while the jury was polled. The bio father was in the room. He was trying to get custody as his ex got with a man who eventually killed their young son by locking him in a refrigerator. The jury was asked if any were victims of abuse. Almost all raised their hand. I saw this many times with jurors. Rape, childhood abuse, drug and alcohol abuse in the family. It is prevalent. We read about it everyday. And this is a wealthy country. Yet… there is not enough money. Plus the “ rights” issues. You handled a rape case of a girl 8 to 16. Her father was a fat greasy quiet man. She was a beautiful cheerleader. She loved him. She didn’t want to be separated. I could go on. It’s devastating that our children suffer. They have no choice being born. I followed the Madeleine Mcann case. It wasn’t until Scotland Yard got involved that the Portuguese police revealed 12 other abductions around the same time that lead to the arrest of a German pedophile rapist. The young lady who recently claimed she was Madeleine was not but another victim of pedophiles. Th dark web needs to be abolished for their sake.
Contagious, I now. Its very sad. Its devastating that so many children suffer and then on top of that they’re bonded to their abusers.
Yes, I know psychopaths are born and narcissists are made. That’s very upsetting too.
There are days when I just want to go back to putting my head back in the sand.
BTW, you may know the case I’m referring to. Its been all of the news lately. It happened on Long Island.
Hi Leigh and LET,
I have to say nothing upsets me and makes me madder than a child killer getting away with it. The system fails so many children and it’s not right. I think they should have life in prison, maybe bread and water to eat and why not throw some daily beatings in there as well, after all, it’s what they did to the child they killed or hurt, they deserve that and worse. The vengeful side I have for these people is very dark and borders on sadist. A little torture might do them some good.
I agree 100% Rebecca. Anyone who tortures a child should be tortured themselves.
My fantasy for child abusers is of having them die slowly and in in the manner of death they caused to the child. In this case – frozen to death. I do not see them as people and want them gone. I have no interest in funding the narc dinner theatres that we call prison.
NA, the father was sentenced to 25 years to life. My hope is one of the prisoners kills him. Although, I would be ok with him be letting outside to freeze to death also.
TS, in response to your last comment, on my darkest days, when I feel like letting out my “barbaric yawp”, I listen to this:
Let’s see how far we’ve come.
LET, the song reminded me of HG’s ‘Razed To The Ground’ article.
Narc Angel, I read somewhere that the plot of Human Centipede was thought up when punishments for child abusers were being discussed.
Thank you. You have found me exactly where I’m at.
“Narc dinner theatres..” Well put, I need to remember that one!
Leigh and NarcAngel,
I want justice for those abused children, for anyone really. It makes me so fired up, when I hear about someone being abused, makes me want to inflict pain on them. I have to tell you what happened to my mother, ye, who was the black plague of my childhood, my mother. She had diabetes, took both R and N insulin, three times a day. Her blood sugar would get up to 500 or more. She was a severe diabetic, got the disease in her early 30s. She blamed me for that, said being pregnant with me caused her to be diabetic…but, it couldn’t be from her bad eating habits, her lack of exercising and her family history of the disease, that couldn’t possibly play a part in it too….No, let’s just blame my child for it all. Asshole. Anyway, her diabetes got worse because she refused to take better care of herself…eat according to a diabetic diet, not gurge on sweets and carbs, and then lay around all day….The diabetes attacked her kidneys, she had kidney failure, had to go on dialysis and take medication for that. The dialysis medicine caused her to have strokes, which caused her left side to go numb and limp. She had to go through physical therapy to regain some use in her left side. She had another stroke and that caused her not to be able to talk. She had another one that caused her to lose the mobility in her left side again, more physical therapy. The diabetes caused her to loss most of her sight, she was legally blind. She had eye surgery and on the way home, a drunk driver hit the car she was passenger in. The accident caused her retina to detach and so then her eyesight didn’t get better. Her dialysis treatment wasn’t working for her anymore, so the doctor had to connect her to a machine, by putting a rod like device into the side of her chest, to drain the fluid around her heart. She had congestive heart failure from the diabetes. She died in the hospital because she fell out of bed, with the rod in her chest. My dad wanted to sue the hospital, but his Pastor talked him out of sueing the hospital…telling him, it’s not the Christian thing to do. My dad looked up to the Pastor and did what he said. I think the Pastor was a narc, or at least narcissistic.
Anyway, she went through a lot, in the last five years of her life, karma beat the shit out of her, to be honest, it’s what I see. I felt bad for her, but part of me felt she deserved it too, and I have to live with that. I have to say, I understand why I have conflicting feelings for my mother, after all, if she had been kind to me, part of me wouldn’t feel resentment towards her. I wouldn’t feel justified in hating her some and thinking, she had it coming. After all, what kind of mother gives a 6 yr old a concussion, just for hanging out with a school friend, after school??? She totally overreacted and I should have been taken from her, but the system failed me, like it does a lot of children. It’s why I sympathize with HG and his treatment from his mother. We both had monsters for mothers, though HG’s still drawals breath. My condolences HG xx
Rebecca, it’s ok that you feel like your mother deserved what she got. I know we can have conflicting feelings when dealing with a parent.
My father was found dead in his bed. He was there for two weeks before someone found him. When it first happened, I felt tremendous guilt. Then I realized, he didn’t deserve my guilt or compassion. He certainly never showed me any compassion, why should I show him any.
In my mind, justice was served and my father got what he deserved. It’s ok if you feel that way about your mother too.
KitKat, you’d definitely rather be dead!
Child killers would be crying out for the electric chair.
AspEmp, just read “Razed to the Ground” again at your suggestion.
Empaths do not destroy, they build up.
When your world is being razed, it is not being razed by empaths.
LET, I’d suggest that some empaths do not “build up” when they are “razing” someone to the ground via their words? Other empaths do “build up” some other people, unconditionally.
Funny enough, I could say my trigger would be justice. Slightly different from your own reasoning tho. For me as long as the sentence befits the crime (in my eyes), I feel that is sufficient. Perhaps my knowledge of the prison system allows me to feel like this and my view that living in one is a greater punishment than the nothingness of death. Death would be an escape they do not deserve.
My problem kicks in when I do not feel the sentence reflects justice.
With normals and their capacity for empathy = I can tell you there is a crime curve. It surges in young men aged 17 to 25 (rising mid-way between these ages). One of the reasons (not the only reason) given on why it reduces beyond this age group – is men tend to settle down and have families. Perhaps it is the ties that bind them to those they care about that contain other inclinations.
Yes, I agree prison is a better option than ‘the nothingness of death’. It’s interesting what you said about the crime curve, it could also be a case of reduced opportunity / reduced privacy due to cohabitation / marriage. It also made me question the role testosterone might play.
I have heard it said from a couple of different sources that psychopaths unlike narcissists are known to mellow or ‘improve’ as they age. I have never once seen testosterone levels offered as a reason for that though. Perhaps opportunity ties in, the general physical and mental ageing process, I don’t know. It’s not that they become ‘nicer’ or less ‘psychopathy’ haha, just less impulsive perhaps. They don’t require the Prime Aims in the same way as narcissists so I don’t think it’s necessarily a switch to different manipulations. Both instances I heard it they were more or less throwaway comments, no detail or evidence was given to support it, but it does kind of make sense.
Enthrall don’t worry in the US they give them blue bands and try to protect them from the populace. They don’t:)
Hi Leigh: psychopaths are born that way. It’s a brain wiring. Narcs are created. You can be a loving family and have a psychopath. Think Jeffrey Dahlmer. There is a movie called my son Kevin. It’s about a normal couple who bear a psychopath. Heartbreaking. Of course an unstable family won’t help…
Leigh, a long time ago I told a friend of mine (normal), that if there was an emergency situation and some men wanted to harm my daughter – I would do anything to distract them, suck one by one and act provocatively like a whore or like an angel of innocence. I would do whatever they wanted (while looking for a way out of this situation).
He looked at me surprised and did not understand (he was a childless man at the time).
To me, it’s clear – I’ll do anything to protect her. And when I write everything – I mean EVERYTHING.
As long as it didn’t involve by me harming someone innocent. Then I’d have a problem.
Joa, it’s interesting because I think my instinct would be for me to step in the middle and take on the brunt of the attack. That’s how I’ve done things in the past. When my father was on his rampage, I would get him to focus on me instead of my disabled brother. But I didnt fight back. I don’t know if I could kill or inflict pain.
But I’m sure if it was life or death, my natural instincts would kick in.
Leigh, most people imagine defense as heroic acts, killing the perpetrator, etc. But in real life situations, you often don’t have that option. The perpetrator(s) will not wait for you to prepare with the weapon, they will not make it easier for you to attack, and you will not always be in a familiar place.
I can’t handle weapons. In my country, only security forces, hunters, shotgun brothers, sport shooters and a few rich people own guns. And very well!
I believe I could kill if I failed to protect my daughter by my methods and she was harmed – in real time. Only if I knew I could do it effectively and not cause her any more harm.
Killing someone innocent to protect my daughter – probably NOT.
Yes, I have also stood up for others many times. Always effective. When I’m defending someone else, there’s something about me that makes them back down from their previous intentions.
I always start by focusing attention on myself – in very different ways – I sense what will interest them. Usually that’s enough.
If I fail, I move on to other methods, unfortunately also strength ones, even when it is a much stronger man. Everything depends on the assessment of the situation – I choose the method that seems to me at this moment, in this situation, towards this person – the most appropriate.
Joa, your comment that they back off from their previous intentions, makes me think that they got what they were after in the first place. Fuel!
It also reminded me of an incident with my father and brother. It was after my father came back so I was in my twenties. I just happen to walk in and my father had a broom in his hand and was about to go after my brother. I told him, “if you hit my brother with that broom. I’m going to pick it up next and beat you with it.” He backed off.
What stopped them was our fuel output. We give lots of fuel. They got what they wanted so they backed off. My loud mouth has saved me and others many times in the past. Thank you for reminding me of that.
There is a spectrum for psychopaths. My ex was diagnosed antisocial. He is no killer but he is a criminal. I immediately thought Ted Bundy etc… in my child custody battle but I was actually told that criminals can be good fathers but the love the nurture would have to come from me. She was right. The jails are filled with antisocials not all kill. Most just have no regard for rules, laws, or norms. Their emotional range is as HG said. I saw this first hand. I also had no drama while my ex was a cheat, a liar and a crook, he was a calm presence. No fighting. Calm and cool always until the divorce. He would even say there were two ways of doing things: legal and not. He had no friends. Trusts no one. Rich and isolated. Always calculating. Children are wanted as heirs. He wanted 9 boys lol. If they do well, he takes credit and favors them. He has little to do with child care but let them live in a mansion then kick them out at 18. But they will inherit. They are his legacy. His. When he says jump, you jump. Total control. Sex is not as good with a psychopath as with a narc. Psychopaths have limited range of emotion even cognitive emotion in bed. It’s routine, payment for rent. They don’t care about fuel. They want their goals to be achieved. Money. Power. Women are just cogs in a wheel. Turn your head you get to live her. Do as I say. Give me a baby. Take care of my house. “ not my job”. This was the norm in the Newport coast community that included Kobe and David Nelson as neighbors. The mothers club would talk about putting condoms in their Fortune 500 cover husbands suitcases as they traveled… some 4th or 5th wives. It was nauseating at times listening to the talks about what preschool in the same sentence as getting into Harvard or watching the men’s infidelity in front of your driveway and what these women accepted for money. I left. But they say most CEOs are psychopaths. From a room with a Birds Eye view once. Yes. Also I have seen it as a lawyer, my client who makes 100 million must sleep with one eye open. There are only 6 companies in the world that can build bridges that involve international cargo. And they must join to bid. An insurance policy can be 10 million cash. I counseled the CEO and project manager of one. I believe that those who reach the top are psychopaths. The decisions you have to make on socio economic issues, environmental issues…and go forward regardless. Yup
Contagious, I was the nanny, in my mind. There was no working together on anything. You described the sex perfectly. The calm also. It was unusual for yelling, usually if there was, it was from me and he was very good at triggering this. But we went many years where there was none. Mine has a lot of friends, he was very charming, but all of his friends either used each other or were used. And my ex didn’t need any of them. I think he is a sociopath, so a little different. Reading your comment though really took me back.
I think your instincts are right on!!!
Hi Contagious, well, I learned that HG would tell us if he picked up on psychopathy in the NDC, and he didn’t say anything in my ex’s results, so I guess my instincts were off. I’m a little confused because the definition of antisocial in HG’s Misused Word video describes my ex but there must be some difference. I know he’s a narcissist and that’s bad enough. So I’ll go with that for now.
How do you know your ex was a psychopath? Was he diagnosed as one? I’m confused right now but only a little. Thank you and if you don’t feel comfortable to answer, I understand.
Yes Victor. When I left him, he sued me for full custody. This is a man who never changed a diaper or did any child rearing as that was “ my job.” Mind you, I left my partnership as a lawyer making 250,000 at the time to care for the children. He insisted but I wanted too. Always a mom first. We suffered a two year battle and I was awarded 80% custody as the top counselor in Orange County ( affluent ) found him to be an antisocial. After the hearing before trial, at this point I had used up my savings and represented myself… may I say well lol. BUT I was upset over the 20% and her diagnosis as I thought antisocial meant Ted Bundy level psychopath. She explained that many antisocials are criminals and can be good fathers. She even mentioned the Sopranos! I was not reassured but as time went on… she was right. We co parented very well without talking. I paid for everything although he was much richer. He showed up. Oddly he favors my daughter and was quite proud as if every achievement was his own. But hey, we did well
Contagious, thank you for sharing, that is interesting. I’m glad it all turned out well.
” I counseled the CEO and project manager of one. I believe that those who reach the top are psychopaths. The decisions you have to make on socio economic issues, environmental issues…and go forward regardless. Yup”
You are correct. CEO is in the top 10 of top jobs for psychopaths.
One of the main reasons the world is in the state it is if you ask me…
I read a study once Anna and it’s 1 out of 3. And yes….why change anything that works for you. In the USA about 65% of the land and 75% of corporate wealth is owned by private families or 1%. I recall a bill that every family that bought a hybrid or electric car could deduct it from taxes. Dead. At the same time expansive oil drilling in Alaska was approved. Why create a better world if you lose money? Most people don’t know that banks are often one person. One family. And investors of mortgages maybe 1-2. We can’t change anything because our leaders are puppets. Who is a better puppet vote? I think Mother Nature or a nuclear war may change everything. When Covid shut everything down there was a grab by the 1% of land and stock in US by 10%. I read an article about UK. But anarchy came close in USA. Police stations burned. A run on the capital. We don’t live in times of mass starvation of the past. Food is plentiful but processed and making people fat. Opiates are drugging masses. The days of a coup like the French Revolution is not likely. Iran is an example it can happen but…. Not over. But if Mother Nature continues to rage and if China and USA or North Korea or? there is a chance horribly things will change. My hope is on the youth. The Greta’s out there. In the USA the majority llenlisls are the first generation not to accede their parents in wealth due to crippling college loans, the cost of inflation and cost of housing. Those basics the middle class held dear. I saw this Times correspondent give a speech and bought her book and she said the younger generation is coming. I hope so before my belief that there will be a level field but because of mass environmental issues or war. This cannot continue.
I think the main difference between aspd and a narcissist is the need for fuel. Otherwise there are quite an amount of similarities, one can have many cross traits. When it comes to personal intimate relationships then narcissism becomes more prevalent, especially when maintaining control. One of my favorite lines from HG is along the lines of why don’t you date a non empath, ‘they don’t cut the mustard so to speak’ 😆
Yes they won’t hang on as tight and bleed fuel, the only time a narc may similate that is if your leaving before they are ready but even then the taste isn’t the same as ‘roast empath’ 😆
I think it is more to do with the fact that empaths are so kind and do not give up like a normal person would. They believe in true love, they want to save. They keep “bleeding love” like the song by “Leona Lewis” in fact I believe this song to be a perfect example of an empath in love with a narcissist. People try to warn them, but they do not accept it.. they bleed love. They are full of light, see only the good.
A true good psychopath or narcissist who can control themselves (like HG) would protect their empath from the darkness and evil of the world. That is the ultimate control.
Demons are after all just fallen angels… just saying!
Food for thought…
Knowing many from a military background (special forces/ RAF/grenadier guards). I wonder if a certain type of person is attracted these jobs – or the training pushes people into a certain direction? I know people who have killed – not illegally tho. No criminal records at all. Loyalty, lots of banter – but not always solving things in what others may consider socially acceptable ways. No fear and use of intimidation (training?). Protective and none are narcissists – thay can be stubbon jerks tho.
This is an interesting comment Enthralled, it makes sense to me that at least some could be psychopaths. It seems like a line of work that could interest them certainly.
Enthralled. I was worried as my son had wanted to be in the military from age 3. He joined out of high school at 18. He went to Iraq. My son was made the highest rank Sergeant and is very popular among his troops. I was worried as he is taught to KILL. I consulted HG. Would the military take my compassionate honest decent sin and turn him. HG explained NO. And let me tell you the narcs and psychopaths don’t always do well. It’s a brotherhood. If your brothers don’t feel you are part of the team as my son would say we would leave him in a ditch to die. The military is filled with RULES and I doubt psychopaths would do well with obeying rules of any kind unless…that is their goal. No doubt the military has them as they have jobs just like every civilian society. But even trump had resistance from the military when he tried to use them as his own personal guard. They said call the national guard. I know someone high up in the pentagon and many family members who made careers at military. They tend to be disciplined militants. Straight shooters. Not those who look to get around rules. But kill. Yep. They will. My son once wondered his purpose without a war. I said without you, without the USA military what do you think would happen to the USA? Your trained bodies and minds keep it running whether war or not. And let me tell you, they are fit, trained and ready. What they put our boys through: simulation, training in every form of weapon, sleeping in every condition, living on powered food, hiking unto your feet bleed… you have no idea folks! It’s the scary reality. You matter! Sorry folks but I must say God Bless our Marines!
Contagious, your son did very well in the Marines! That is no easy task! It shows that not all high ranking military people are narcs or psychopaths, that is great to know! Thank you for sharing that. And I thank him for his service.
Thank you Victor! I think it’s important to know that our military… the best in the world is not a group of trained killers but men and women who give up their lives to protect our country. My son is embarrassed when people say “ thank yiy0 as he sees being bullied need at Iraq as nothing, not a war against what did he do? I tell him what if you did not exist or men or women like you? Where would we be? Your very existence the world knows. Your training the world knows. You matter! Hey guys enlistment is down! Staying in the military is down. Not in China…..
You are correct lots of rules to follow. I have no idea how this would impact a psychopath – depending on how high functioning they were.
Bless both you and your boy and lets raise a glass to peace 🙂
The one upside is your boy should forge long term relationships with guys who will always have his back – an extended family of sorts.
Enthralled. Deepest thanks as he just made Sergeant and was deployed again. I think it’s important for people everywhere to know: my son is embarrassed by the thank you for the service he gets. He hates it. He feels there is nothing real war. So what have I done? Well he was binned in Iraq. His best friend in Syria. But I tell him that’s not what matters. I pause to tell you wgmhat he said in Iraq. I said “ were you scared?” He said “ yea my adrenaline was up but we are trained to run to danger not away from it.” Take that. My response is without you. War or no war. Where would we be? They know you are trained and expect st! He smiled. 8 years in. Highest rank he can achieve. Cheap zen. I said “ how?0 He says he is popular! Btw military enlistment and careers down. Beware.
I wrote about this in detail Enthralled and consulted HG because my son wanted military at age 3 on… thanks Call of Duty? My compassionate, strong, level headed loyal friend, great son was going to be trained to kill. HG explained that the military does not create narcs etc… He reassured me. And it didn’t. But… when my son was bombed in Iraq, I asked him. Were you afraid? He said we are trained to run to danger not away from it. My son was promoted to the highest rank he could achieve. I asked why? He said hard work and he was popular last among his brothers. We once spoke of a military man that the platoon hated sue to his unjust and mistreatment of others. My son said none of the men would help him if lying in a ditch at war bleeding. It was a saying not a reality….BUT I don’t think you will do well if a narc or antisocial with your brothers. It requires deep empathy for one and another. Sorry but I have seen what training they go through in the US Marines… bleeding feet etc… we would be nowhere without these fine men and women and despite technology, we will always need boots on the ground
* not do well
Strangely, I came across a comment under a Jeffrey Dahmer YT video which listed numerous serial killers and the fact they had all served in the military at one time or another. It was remarkable. Here’s the list:
Arthur Shawcross (enlisted in army)
Anthony Sowell(enlisted U.S Marine Corp)
Jeffrey Dahmer(enlisted in army)
David Berkowitz(enlisted in army
Dean Corll(enlisted in army)
Dennis Nilsen(enlisted in army)
Gary Heidnik (enlisted in army)
Robert Lee Yates(enlisted in army)
Wesley Dodd(joined the Navy)
Richard Allen Davis(enlisted in army)
John Allen Muhammad(Washington Sniper)
Timothy McVeigh (Oklahoma City Bombing)
Dennis Rader(Joined U.S Air force)
Randy Kraft (Joined U.S Air force)
Russell Williams ( Colonel in Canadian Force)
Gary Ridgway (Joined the Navy)
Roy Norris (Joined the Navy)
Charles Whitman(Enlisted in U.S Marine Cor)
Leonard Lake(Enlisted in U.S Marine Corps)
Charles Ng Immigrant (In U.S Marine Corps)
Army, Airforce, Navy, Marine Corps.
Seems like a bit of a chicken and egg situation, though for the most part it could be assumed their psychopathy was in place before they joined. Joining may have just honed their skills. Mind Control was mentioned. Conspiracy theories.
HG, this article is great but makes me feel like we are reading about a modern day vampire and I want to pass the telephone number of Buffy the Vampire Slayer onto Shieldmaiden. My heart goes out to Shieldmaiden. Your honesty is refreshing and gives great foresight. Shieldmaiden sounds lovely, treat her like a queen, she deserves the very best of you. (I know you will pay no attention, but I have to say it anyway).
In my opinion many “victims” are not victims of normal narcissists but of psycopathic narcissists.
Demons in human bodies. Males and females bodies.
Hi Black Phoenix: agreed. Different demons same result.
You are so right
Even their eyes turn black when they do something bad. I heard this comes from adrenaline. It makes the pupils larger. Thus their eyes look like they are black, almost taking on a demonic like appearance. One if my exes eyes turned black when we were having sex. It was terrifying to say the least…
This is interesting, I would’ve said just the opposite, more are victimized by psychopaths with narcissism and also pure narcissists than by pure psychopaths. 100% of narcissists abuse in some way out another, I don’t believe that is necessarily true for pure psychopaths, not 100% of them anyway. I almost think the pure psychopaths are a little safer, possibly. Also possibly easier to identify and then adjust “treatment” earlier?
Hi Victor: I started my career as a DA. I disagree. Sadists are the worst. But psychopaths have zero conscience and no need for fuel. They are goal oriented. Sex. Power. Money. Serial killers are psychopaths.
Okay, thanks Contagious, I appreciate that.
At least narcs need fuel.
It would do well to remember that the information we are privy to is deliberate and calculated.
None of it threatens The Ultra’s control.
As with any narcissist, to presume full transparency is a dangerous conviction.
HG would hardly reveal if he were Jack The Rippering his way across London.
RE: your last sentence, I believe HG has been following ‘The Ten Commandments’, No 6. You must not commit murder. 😉
Yes, HG may be delivering his work by being “deliberate and calculated” in a way that remains accurate and maintains the goals of his Legacy, empowering empaths and ensuring that everything that he set out to do is “legally everything is done” (Livestream September 2022), without letting on to those that ‘created’ him. Refer to HG’s article ‘Dolus Malus’.
The actual 15, nay, 10 commandments, or HG’s own personalized 10 commandments?
(Bonus points if you get the reference)
I do get the reference, KK.
“ HG would hardly reveal if he were Jack The Rippering his way across London”
He may not reveal it here, but he isn’t. his facade, his work, his primary source, his freedom are all things he obviously wants to maintain, which is why he has found other ways to meet the prime aims.
He even said he chose to attend therapy partly because of the threat of being reported to the police for something he claims he didn’t do, but let’s be real, maybe he did and that’s part of the reason. I’m not naive enough to believe that HG as never told us a lie or two to protect himself.
Agreed, of course he’s not a serial killer, I mostly thought it would be funny to say ‘Rippering’.
Murder is over much too quickly.
Once it’s done it’s done.
HG is too smart and creative for that.
He’s more like a cat playing with a mouse….only he leaves them alive and wounded so they have a lifetime of rueing the day they wronged him.
Which I have a feeling I may be doing if I keep making jokes that don’t come across as such. No disrespect meant, HG.
I note that.
Thank you sir. I’m not nearly as funny as I think I am. Hour God is a merciful one
HG most people are think psychopaths are serial killers. Or killers. Not all are. Not all are sadists either. We need more information on this page to avoid the leaps to portrayals on TV. Thank you!
“HG most people are think psychopaths are serial killers. Or killers. Not all are. Not all are sadists either. We need more information on this page to avoid the leaps to portrayals on TV. Thank you!”
You are so right Contagious. They are not all criminals or serial killers, they do however leave a wake of pain and destruction following them. They are worse than narcissists. Similar to locusts stripping everything bare then flying off to find another source to strip bare. Plague, pestulance. Much like the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse.
Actually Sonnet 94 by William Shakespeare comes to mind. I have no idea why….
“They That Have Power To Hurt, And Will Do None”
They that have power to hurt, and will do none,
That do not do the thing they most do show,
Who, moving others, are themselves as stone,
Unmoved, cold, and to temptation slow;
They rightly do inherit heaven’s graces,
And husband nature’s riches from expense;
They are the lords and owners of their faces,
Others, but stewards of their excellence.
The summer’s flower is to the summer sweet,
Though to itself, it only live and die,
But if that flower with base infection meet,
The basest weed outbraves his dignity:
For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds;
Lilies that fester, smell far worse than weeds.”
Anna, RE: about psychopaths you say “They are worse than narcissists”. Rubbish! How many psychopaths are there compared to narcissists? How many empaths / other victims in the whole world are there because of narcissism / narcissists? KTN blog is about narcissism, why did HG create it?
Agree Contagious. I have been in a situation recently where a diagnosed psychopath outclassed my emotional empathy in debate through using logic and highly developed cognitive empathy.
I thought that was interesting because as empaths we hold our emotional empathy in such high regard. Yet, in this debate the approach of the psychopath would have been of greater benefit to society or more accurately, would have safeguarded the rights of people in society, far more effectively than my so called empathic approach. Emotional empathy can actually get in the way of decision making for the greater good. Psychopaths have been portrayed as only one thing for so long though it’s likely very difficult to get behind that.
Mr. Tudor, this articles says to me that at any given moment, if it no longer serves your purpose, you can stop being pro-social and if you deemed it necessary, you could even be harmful.
I just wanted to say that I’m very grateful that it still serves your purpose to be pro-social and helpful. Thank you.
You are welcome.
We certainly are fortunate!
The emptiness is a state of mind, almost as if there are levels, if you get stuck on this like a muscle spasm you will be caught up in that game and play accordingly. Empaths play the role of empaths and do it wonderfully so, all roles are essential to make what is. One who is aware will reconcile those within him and move on, nothing will contain him not even the illusion of perception. SoThen what is this game we are playing? 🙂
Patrick: psychopaths want what they want. You are best to get away and hope they move on. They are the ultimate predators, there is no reasoning. There is no hope. They are born that way.
No one knows what it’s like to be the bad man
To be the sad man
Behind Blue Eyes
… The Who
Thank you HG for sharing this side of you.
What about you and physical pain or emotional pain (feeling “wounded”)?
Or a mix of different difficult emotions like feeling jealous? For normal people it is a mix, I guess for you it is just fury? Hot fury, cold fury?
I do not understand your questions, you will need to rephrase them.
What you describe in your work as the feeling or being wounded isn’t that emotional pain? And isn’t emotional pain a feeling? If so to which of the main five emotions you talked about in this article does it belong?
What you call fury or hatred belongs to the main emotion anger. Fury and hate are just stronger than anger (feeling f.e. irritated is much weaker than feeling angry but it belongs to the main emotion anger). Feeling jealous is for normal people a mix of the emotions sadness, fear and anger. How does feeling jealous feels for you?
Jealousy could manifest as fear for some narcissists, for me, it would be linked to disgust and fury.
I was watching Luther (the movie) and thinking of HG, when all of a sudden Idris Elba exclaims “Tickety boo.” My heart sank. And then, this…
SP, now that you mention Idris. I have watched him in the series ‘Luther’ (I quite enjoy it). I was also watching him quite intently in his series ‘Fight Club’ and I was also observing those that took part in the programme.
He has many skills, among them, he is also a very good DJ.
Luther was a fantastic movie. Very well done. It never ceases to amaze me though how sadistic and twisted some human beings are. How they really enjoy inflicting pain on others. I have never understood this. I think it is the definition of “evil” to enjoy someone elses pain.
Luther was a very good movie.
It makes me sad though, that some people are so evil, sick and sadistic. That they enjoy hurting others for pleasure. It basically sums evil up. Andy Serkis did an excellent job in portraying the character “David Robey” Especially how he installed fear into people and controlled them. It sent a shiver down my spine.
In fact, I haven’t finished watching it.
Idris really gave me the ick when he tried to be a rapper 🤣
I never saw that, just his electronic sessions.
I noticed that and thought the same too, haha
The best part of the movie for me was when Mrs Robey described her husband “ he’s a good man” ….Mr Bubbles n I both laughed out together. That was hilarious 🤣
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Happiness and joy. It must be sad not to experience these emotions, but then they say you never miss what you haven’t had.
The sociopath, is made not born. They know what joy and happiness is. Then trauma kills. Strips those emotions. Leaving an empty void. Some maybe able to turn them on and off. Sometimes doing controlled emotions. (for example a sad song or film to experience sadness or grief).
HG. Does it make you feel good and satisfied when you experience fury, but are able to quell the flame? The fact that you are in absolute control. Does it make you feel good?
You say you are a narcissistic psychopath, so you were born this way? Or did you once experience happiness and joy? have you felt it once?
If you can spot a narcissist you can spot a potential psychopath. Some are highly sociable and likable as in my brother’s case. Some are loners and quirky. Time and proximity is what unmasks them. You spend enough time around them and know about npd you get to see the entitlement and the total disregard for certain people. You over time being around many narcissists can sense it like a bad smell. You can pick them out a mile away. Knowing which would kill is another story. My brother i suspect has killed indirectly and gotten away with it. Why he did so i have my theories that are now 16 years later surfacing to me and i think his ex wife as well. I think she knows a lot but has remained silent for their sons sake.
Psychopaths are just narcissists further on the npd spectrum. They are from a different world because their brain is wired so differently.
Also, if their family tells you they’ve always been different, take it to heart. No sense in waiting around to discover if they’re one who would kill.
As mothers we can keep things to ourselves but it can be incredible how much the kids figure out on their own. I’ve been sadly surprised by some of these things much later on.
They are bed wetters until 12. They kill animals or torture them. They are kids with no conscience or empathy. There is a movie “ call me Kevin” I think about it. It’s heart breaking as no cure. At best they can learn to follow rules and laws better.
Do you believe all of them do all of these things? I will see if I can find that movie. It is heartbreaking to us, I don’t think it is to them. I think at best they can become surgeons or lawyers or get into other types of professions where a lack of empathy can be a boon. Or HG, who has helped many in the process of building his legacy. Many do these types of positive things. Thankfully.
I think the movie Contact is referring to is called “We Need to Talk About Kevin” which highlights and raises questions about psychopathy in childhood and young adulthood. It’s a fascinating film and TS and I had a discussion about it here some time ago when pondering the issue of psychopathy. It’s the intransigent element of psychopathy that really stood out for me in that movie, and the fact it was possible to consider childhood factors being an element even though it cannot currently be diagnosed prior to the age of eighteen. Definitely worth a watch.
LET, yes, it is that intransigence that made me hesitate before writing that LOC would likely affect them. I think, and I’m speculating which I hate doing, it can in the sense that it can direct their actions toward good or bad potentially, not that it alters the status of the psychopathy. Or that it makes them less capable of doing anything, just more or less supported toward good or bad.
Thank you for the info on the movie. I always hesitate to take things from Hollywood, or other entertainment media, for actual accuracy on these things, unless it’s a documentary with professionals. They are fun to watch sometimes as long as I can separate the truth from fiction.
AV, I know what you are getting at in terms of the LOCE, and I tend to think of it the same way. A psychopath in a non-LOCE environment is potentially less likely to act out in the same manner they would coming from a LOCE or severely LOCE environment. It may temper the psychopathy in terms of the environment. In other words, the worse the environment, the worse the psychopath, not sure if that’s a little too simplistic. Psychopaths seem to all have the same propensity to do harm – glib charm enabling manipulation, lack of empathy and remorse creating a lack of consideration for others, etc – but do they all act on that in a manner to do the greatest harm? They are wide open to predatory influence, what stops them from doing more harm than good?
Raising more questions than I’m answering!
I would have to agree, the state of psychopathy cannot be altered, therefore making it intransigent, but serving the predators interests while aligning that with a greater good is perhaps a possibility. It would be a rare case, I think, and a little like to scorpion and the frog tale where the scorpion promises not to sting the frog. In that sense it’s probably a case of ‘watch your back’ as the predatory nature will not consider you if it doesn’t suit it do so.
When it comes to the movie that was mentioned, it teases out a scenario with a psychopathic child where the mother is central to the story. I thought it was an excellent study of the complexity of relationships that can exist in that type of scenario and the heartbreak that can also ensue. You might find it interesting, AV. To suggest you might enjoy it is probably taking things a step too far. Very hard to ‘enjoy’ the concept of a psychopathic child.
Hi LET, your questions are all ones I have wondered also, I suppose we may know when HG writes more.
I was thinking more about the boredom, which may stem from the emptiness? I think the need to fill the boredom being directed to things that would be beneficial as opposed to the child being left to his/her own devices to fill their boredom. I think that may be a piece of it.
I think of Jeffrey Dahmer again, not sure his makeup, maybe completely off. But his dad trying to focus him on dissecting dead animals, had that home been less LOCE, maybe Jeffrey would’ve used that skill to solve crimes or be a surgeon or… Whatever? His curiosity seemed in some ways to drive his actions and were not focused toward positive, to us, things with enough consistency.
As you, more questions than answers, at this point. It is interesting.
Oh and also, what if these kids do these things out of curiosity, not out of badness? As in the torture of animals, they don’t see it as such, I don’t think. Or lighting of fires, is it always to destroy it is it, at least initially, curiosity and filling boredom?
Your comment raises more interesting questions and I’ll share some thoughts around that while referencing back to HG’s article.
My thought around the emptiness mentioned by HG is that what exists is a virtual vacuum. Something needs to fill that vacuum. It is an emptiness or boredom that can only be filled with an unfeeling enterprise, or a manipulative con job, because we know that the psychopath has no empathic connection to us. Here is what HG said:
“I care not for you. You are to become mine and I shall possess you, ready to distract and chase away the ever present boredom. I feel that first flicker of anticipation as the game begins as you turn and already my crystal blue stare and welcoming smile have caused you to notice me and await my attendance on you. Already you are caught in my tractor beam and savour the lifting of the ennui as I prepare to feast on you.”
In other words, let the games begin. For the purposes of amusement, entertainment, distraction, power, promotion, prominence. What needs to be factored in is that none of this is done with consideration of others in mind. Whatever the psychopath does is done for them and their purposes, which I assume can allow for the possibility of benefit to others in certain circumstances. From my perspective, this is not to be mistaken for any kind of sentiment on their part and that’s probably what I hope to avoid by having this conversation. They are not sentimental creatures. Their likeness to others comes from their ability to imitate, not truly enjoin.
When it comes to Dahmer, I didn’t know his father had him dissect animals, and I can’t understand that at all, so now I’m wondering about his father and a genetic component to the psychopathy. My own take on issues around curiosity and not understanding the implications of their actions is probably along the lines of knowing they are causing harm, finding delight in that and this either alleviating their sense of boredom, or exciting them in the sense of a game. Personally, I wouldn’t ascribe this lack of morality to innocence. I think it can be ascribed to the void or emptiness. Regardless, it is necessary to hold the psychopath accountable.
I appreciate you helping me tease out some more thoughts around this.
Yes, I agree, there can be no effective predating if the is any connection or bond to the prey. It is only for them that they do it. No sentiment. This is why they are chilling to me. It doesn’t matter what they display, they are still, always, capable of predating. If they get bored, look out.
I agree also, they imitate only to further their goals, not to join in.
A lack of morals is exactly what we’re talking about here. Whatever they find that will alleviate the boredom, fill the emptiness, it can be done. I don’t know that they know what will suffice to alleviate and fill initially, but once it’s done, they do. I believe they can learn this very young also. And they have no guilt or remorse for having learned it nor for taking it forward. Is it possible that it is a drive in them from birth to do things we don’t think of? I don’t know. Is it possible that if they are never allowed opportunity to discover negative ways to alleviate the boredom, they will find ways that may not be harmful to others? I don’t know.
Yes, very necessary to hold them accountable, I agree.
HI LET & AV, Jeffrey Dahmer’s father was a scientist & a school teacher. The way I understood it was that the father had him dissect dead animals for educational purposes.
My question is what caused Dahmer to go on a killing spree & dismember his victims? Why didn’t he become a great surgeon? What caused his psychopathy to manifest in that way? If he’s a pure psychopath, maybe when his father taught him to dissect animals, it gave him a taste of what it must be like to dismember a living thing. I wonder if his father never taught him to dissect, maybe he wouldn’t have went that extra step & dismembered his victims.
How far can one go before you determine that its psychopathy vs natural curiosity? I remember cutting worms in half and pulling the legs off of daddy long-legs spiders. I remember feeling awful afterwards so that was short-lived. But I’m an empath, maybe a normal might get a kick out of seeing what happens to the worm or spider. What about people who hunt and fish? If you’re hunting and fishing for survival, ok that’s necessary. But what if you’re doing it for sport? Where do you fall then?
I can’t help but think about the Nazi’s too. They had to do unspeakable things. I’m sure some of them were psychopaths or narcissists and got off on doing those unspeakable things. But some must have been normal too and just followed the herd mentality.
LET, I think your description of the emptiness is dead on accurate. Its a vacuum and sucks the life out of everyone around it.
TBH, I can’t read about Jeffrey Dahmer. For me it’s like peering into the void and I’m afraid at what might stare back at me. I think he had a sickness that goes even beyond psychopathy. There is something demonic in his actions, and the eating of human flesh would correlate with that impression for me. There is something substantially subhuman in what he did. It wasn’t just dissection, it was the whole gamut of enticing, drugging, raping, murdering, dismembering, and feasting on his victims. This is just what I have garnered from random articles and documentaries without watching or reading any full blown content on him. I certainly didn’t watch the recent dramatisation of his story. Evan Peters appears in far too many dark and evil stories from me to want to see him play Dahmer as well. For some reason, I can handle Bundy better in terms of taking an interest in his crimes. He deserved to die. So did Dahmer, but I’m not sure if he was on death row.
If you are comparing your worm and spider antics to that, I’d say you don’t have a lot to worry about, Leigh. Kids are curious, but I was not one of those kids. I remember crying when my father caught a dragon fly in a jar to show us and I just cried for him to let it go. I felt so sorry for it trapped in that jar. I knew it wanted or needed to get out.
I accept people hunt for sport, man is showing his dominance over animals, though I’d prefer it to be for useful or survival purposes. Hunting is a useful skill to have if you are ever forced to rely on your own resources, though that is far less likely these days. I think most hunters have a useful purpose for their kills, and then we have necessary culls at times as well. Not sure where empaths might fall in this area, but I don’t think you need to be a psychopath to kill animals as a practical resource. I think the ‘torture’ and killing of animals is more what is normally alluded to in the case of the psychopath. Most hunters don’t seek to torture their prey. In fact, the quicker the kills, the better, as I imagine it. It shows a level of prowess and does not encourage suffering.
My mother is German. The Nazi heritage is real for many people. I’ve come to realize how complex the lead up to that situation was, which appears to have been somewhat incremental, and makes me think of HG’s video on Slice, Slice and Slice again. It’s something I’m only beginning to understand when it comes to my heritage, and the only explanation I can find for people to turn on eachother so willingly, to the point of genocide. Like the frog boiling in the water, it did not happen overnight, but slowly and in some ways stealthily. As you suggest, the eventual herd mentality is likely the biggest factor in turning ordinary men into monsters, no doubt there was a level of coercion involved. My mother told me the Hitler salute had to be given to neighbours as you came and went from the flats where they lived. It was an indoctrination, fear of reprisal, need to be aligned with others (belong), for some a true belief. I imagine there were those who felt they had no choice (were coerced), and at the other end of the spectrum those who fully supported the regime. No doubt amongst them were the narcissists and psychopaths.
Makes you realise how important “Knowing the Narcissist” and “Knowing the Psychopath” really is when you understand the trajectory things can take if they are given the power some of them desire. There is no limit to the horrors that can attain when good men do nothing.
Hi LET, I didn’t watch the latest series about Dahmer either. I didn’t even know it existed. I’ve always wondered what brought him to that level, especially since there was no physical or sexual abuse. How can that be? To me, it sparks the nature vs nurture debate. What’s more important?
LOL! Yes, I’m safe. I’m not a psychopath and my worm and spider antics don’t compare to that of a psychopath. My thoughts were a bit scattered and I was jumping around a bit. I was just thinking, that there are so many variables. How do we determine psychopathy to natural curiosity? Where is the line drawn?
Thank you for sharing a bit of your heritage. My mother is of Polish and Russian descent and I was raised Jewish. I’m sure there were many good people who had to follow for fear of reprisal. I also know many were forced to do things against their will. It was conditioning and salami slicing on a grand scale. It was slow and methodical and very much like the frog in the boiling water.
Yes, I agree Mr. Tudor’s work on Knowing the Narcissist and Knowing the Psychopath is so important because it brings clarity.
Leigh, I just mentioned the nature vs nurture debate in a comment to AV. Without the LOCE it’s very hard to understand how Dahmer took it to the extreme he did, but like I said I find their is something beyond psychopathy that exists in my understanding.
Maybe HG will give us a better understanding as to where the line should eventually be drawn. I think a LOCE could explain the actions of some empaths in terms of reactions to that which might include actions considered ‘cruel’ at times.
Thank you for sharing more of your family history and heritage, also for your follow on comment from that in terms of understanding. It’s impossible to my mind for people to do what the Germans did unless there had been some element of conditioning leading them forward. It’s what makes it extremely important to be aware of efforts to separate or divide us in order that we don’t allow the narcissists and psychopaths to ever lead us down that road again.
More good questions, AV, and I’m not sure if it could be described as a ‘drive’ on the part of the psychopath or the simple reality of a lack of empathy and conscience combined with a difference in the structure of the brain. To think they are ‘driven’ from my perspective denies the psychopath agency. I would describe it more as a ‘proclivity’. The psychopath has a proclivity towards the actions that they take. What drives them might be the boredom or emptiness associated with their psychopathy. That seems highly nuanced now that I have written it.
I might need to think about that some more!
If it were possible to delay negative experiences, would that benefit the psychopath? I’m not sure, as their inability to connect in an emotionally empathic way may mean they cannot benefit necessarily from positive experiences. I would like to think any child could benefit more from a stable and loving environment, but without that emotional connection you can only hope that might keep them from the worst excesses of their nature. I assume a LOCE is going to be extremely detrimental.
Hi LET, that is good, the nuance, I think you hit it on head. Proclivity is a better word. I watched the two movies, What’s Wrong with Kevin, think that’s the title, and Dismissed over the weekend. Very interesting. Both had a parent who was aware of what they were capable of and afraid of them. Both seem to have had their proclivities regardless of the home environment. Are they true to life? I don’t know. But HG’s told him he was different as a child, did she see it? She seemed to embrace it. My ex’s family knew he was different as a child, that’s one of the things I heard from them from the start. They thought it was odd, his parents didn’t know what to do with him. Thank you for this chat, it has been interesting.
AV, glad you had a chance to watch those movies, and in both cases the parents did seem to know there was something ‘wrong’ with their children with an inability to counter it and a fear of what their children were capable of as well. Makes me wonder again how HG’s father saw him and his response to HG as well. There is the other, much older movie, The Bad Seed, which is impactful in the same way and raises the issue of the nature vs nurture debate. In that case, the movie focuses on a much younger child (a girl aged eight) which made the film even more confronting.
Possibly the fact it was a girl as opposed to a boy enabled part of the controversy.
In the movie, We Need To Talk About Kevin, the mother seems to have difficulty bonding with him from the start. His psychopathy likely made that impossible, but the movie also seems to question her relationship with her son. He appeared to manipulate the difficulty of that relationship by triangulating her with his father, and ultimately it was his father who he killed along with his younger sister. This was in a manner to ‘punish’ her as well. Very much reminds me of the true life case of the young man called Paris who murdered his younger sister with a motive to punish his mother. He knew that would hurt her more than anything else. There’s obviously a sadistic streak contained within that.
Also, I saw HG commented on the notion of getting in the psychopath’s way and how that can lead to certain actions which don’t necessarily involve sadism, but by their nature involve hurting or punishing others. I thought the movie, Dismissed, highlighted that aspect of psychopathy. The determination to win at all costs and not let anything get in the way, even if that meant murder and mayhem. It was really insightful in that sense. I especially liked the aspect of the movie where it shows him as a child practicing different kinds of emotion in the mirror. It was both sad and scary at the same time. Also depressing.
Yes, HG has mentioned how his mother saw something in him she obviously thought she could advance for her own purposes. Being a narcissist, that appears to be him being an extension of her and perhaps fulfilling what she was unable to fulfill herself. Seems that she got more than she bargained for in the circumstances! Only a narcissistic or psychopathic parent could groom their child in their own likeness. They never seem to realise it will come back on the in the end.
In your ex-husband’s case it seems his family weren’t out to groom him, but were concerned about the signs he was showing in terms of being different to them. I’m not sure if you mentioned a LOCE in his case, but I see from the comments that you no longer believe he is a psychopath (or HG would have told you). I’m sure that’s a relief, but not sure if that also means he does not have ASPD (the two appear to be interchangeable at times). It’s possible anxiety leads us to believe certain things are possible when it would take someone with more expertise to determine if that is the case. As lay people we have to rely on our gut instinct. Whether is narcissism or psychopathy, getting out and staying out is the best advice we can get. Glad you and your kids survived the ordeal, AV.
LET, I think I saw The Bad Seed years ago. Of course at the time I wouldn’t have known anything about narcissism or psychopathy, it would have been purely for entertainment. And interestingly, I didn’t connect it to anyone I knew. Probably didn’t know any psychopaths back then. I may see if I can find it and watch it again.
Good point about HG’s father, what did he see, even if it wasn’t bad, per se, it could’ve been unreachable or similar, to where he didn’t see a point to trying? Who knows. I have felt bad for HG about his childhood years for a long time, the abuse he endured, even as I know he does not. It was what it was, it made him effective and there will be revenge. The end.
No, my ex’s family wasn’t out to groom him but they were not out to do much else either. A LOCE for sure, very sad situation. Anyway, no, I didn’t think he was a psychopath, just considering it here, I thought sociopath, which is a little different and falls under the ASPD umbrella. But, at this point, since there was not confirmation from HG and apparently if he picks up on it, he does confirm it, I have decided that it is just the narcissism that controls my ex’s behavior. And this means that his diagnosis as a teen was incorrect, that is okay, he was a teen, the person knew something wasn’t right and was trying to help him. So I give that person credit for that. Yes, anxiety can lead us to believe certain things, also a lack of information, probably this is more my situation. I am relieved to think I did not have a Ted Bundy living in my home. Thank you, I am also glad we all survived! Thank you also for the chat, very interesting!
AV, definitely a lack of information can impact our understanding. Good reminder. It’s why we are here.
I’m sure you are relieved to know you didn’t have a Ted Bundy living in your home. I’m still fascinated by the Netflix movie which showed the start of his relationship from her unaware perspective of what he was and the later interpretation of certain events when she was aware. How things are overlooked or discounted because we have nothing else to measure them by, and then a later reflection when we do. I have done this with the most recent ex-narcissist in my life, unraveling the events of our relationship with the insight I now have. It’s like putting on a pair of glasses – I was blind, but now I see.
Appreciate the chat, also. Thank you, too.
Not to excuse what he did, but if the information we have access to about Dahmer’s childhood is true, or even mostly true, I would say he certainly experienced a LOCE.
I believe he did if, as you say, it’s true at all as presented. They portrayed it in the most recent series even with a golden child, to the mother, her taking that one and leaving Jeffrey with a distracted and absent father for a month or two when still in high school. He was already messed up by then but it didn’t help. I hope HG will be able to fill in some of the pieces around LOCE and psychopathy, aware vs unaware etc as we go along.
And no, nothing excuses it. His prison experience, again if portrayed accurately, was also interesting.
I felt there was a demonic element to Jeffrey Dahmer’s crimes, and now that I’ve looked into it a little more I’m convinced.
There is a chilling video on YT titled: WI vs Jeffrey Dahmer: Victim Tracy Edwards testifies. He describes Dahmer as not even looking like the same person when he became aggressive with him, and says Dahmer put Exorcist III on the TV and chanted at different times while watching it.
Dahmer describes not being able to remember the second murder he carried out when he began his spree, nor the time with Tracy Edwards before his arrest. Edwards was his final victim, but managed to escape.
Dahmer also brought his former prom partner to his home for a party which turned out to be a seance, also telling her his house was haunted.
Not everyone believes in God, or demonic possession, but I think Dahmer was more than an a psychopath.
Chi mom: hope you don’t mind the abbreviation. I was married to an antisocial. Not a narc. He is a criminal as most are and most of the jails. Not all psychopaths are bloodthirsty or killers I learned during my child custody battle. They don’t follow rules, laws or norms. They have their own code. BUT not all are killers. I agree. The top child psychologist once said they can be good fathers. She said think Sopranos. I was aghast but in my case she was right. He is not good at values. But he was good at being present. Taught business and poker and boxing. He is a multimillionaire who makes $30,000 on paper. I see narcs and psychopaths as different especially in relationships. There is no golden period. They want what they want. In my case: heirs. A woman at home. He cheated. Of course. But what really bothered me was getting called into the IRS crime fraud unit. They only take 12 cases a year and he is now in his 7Os scot free. I divorced him then. Like your brother, many crimes are evaded. He had connections to organized crime but washed money at a level not noticeable enough. He was frugal. Smart. Crimes don’t bother him at all. Morals either. But don’t mess with his code of money, woman and family. Don’t try to take his. Who knows the levels he will plunge. Yet, his son was a drug addict. Did nothing to help. His daughter was bipolar. Kicked her out at 18. When he tells the kids to jump, jump. He has the inheritance and the other two count on it. My daughter says she will make more;) . My daughter is a superstar. Straight As since birth, college scholarship and computer science major. All braces and activities, tutors, college counselor and application paid by me. I paid for two years of rent when she went to college in LA. 40,000$ in LA. He is actually paying the last two years of rent. Amazing. But he attributes all her success to him. Let him;)
All the more amazing that you continue to maintain this blog.
Very interesting. I dealt with 2 UMRNs. The biggest difference between the two is that one looks hysterical most of the time. The other is much calmer. The latter seems to always have power and control of the situation, even if he often seems to mind his own business. Could it be that the latter is a narcissistic psychopath and the other a pure narcissist? Thank you in advance
I would need more information about the individuals to form an accurate view. Yes the narc detector.
These 2 individuals have already been examined through the NarcDetector, HG. You didn’t mention psychopathy in your response. Can I assume they are not psychopaths then? Or should I submit another NDC to have their psychopathy evaluated?
You can be assure that they are not because it was not mentioned in the NDC.
Are you saying that if we do an NDC on an individual and they are either a narcissistic psychopath or a pure psychopath, you would tell us that in the results?
Oh this is helpful, thank you. I didn’t know that you would pick that up or mention it in the NDC if you did.
Thank you HG!
Beautifully written, and chilling, Mr. Tudor.
This is terrifying. Thank you for sharing this HG.
In all honesty, not really as scary as the psychopaths who have actually gone on a killing rampage even with the risk of prison
If HG has found ways to prevent himself from doing that .I.E. by removing the toilet roll from the toilets at work because he finds it amusing then well…I guess we are relatively safe. He’s not planning to become jack ripper anytime soon
They rip people’s worlds apart tho. That’s not something you can say oh well to. Npd can be very destructive. That’s not to say narcissists don’t do amazing things in the world. On a personal level they murder people’s lives on many different levels. If you’ve learned properly you take tgat seriously.
I’m not saying not to take it seriously regarding the impact of potential psychological damage through on-going exposure to them which is why you limit exposure.
My parents are narcs, I have several narcs in my family, I’ve been around them since I was born.
I’m just making a point that most narcs shout and stamp their feet and they rely on you to be scared of the threat that they may do something more serious than that, rather then them actually doing it. when my ex tried to get me to change my outfit i walked out of the house and there was nothing he could do unless he actually wanted to risk an assault charge or false imprisonment charge
Shit, what crap!
We have a woman, who deals with supplies, she has a strange policy of savings, although no one asks her for it, and money is sometimes spent on total nonsense.
The toilet paper is so thin, that it keeps tearing and everyone is going to hell! 🙂
She also once pointed out, that when wiping your hands, you should use only one sheet of paper towels.
I have a hand washing mania 150 times a day and that’s double. Every time I use at least three leaves with pleasure, ha ha ha 😀
These types of games are just the tip of the iceberg as to what keeps these people entertained. What they are capable of is not so simple. And not at all humorous.
AV, you are right. When you put it all together, it can be very overwhelming.
However, humor, petty teases and honest conversations allow us to survive in all this. We have been using these methods for years.
I generally follow the rule: I don’t follow stupid rules 🙂
If some irrational ordinance irritates me especially, I can make it very ostentatious.
@ A Victor
“These types of games are just the tip of the iceberg as to what keeps these people entertained. What they are capable of is not so simple. And not at all humorous.”
I agree. Worse is these sick mind games, and if you dare to question it then the gaslighting begins.
“It was just a joke, you are to sensitive, etc etc..”
It is terrible.
I always got “Lighten up…”
I hate narcissism, I hate what these people are capable of and what they do. I hate my parents because I didn’t know, good parents would tell you that this exists and teach you how to stay safe. I hate myself, for not knowing, for not teaching my children this. So the cycle continues.
It is terrible. Thank you.
AV, there’s still time to break the cycle. Our children have something that we didn’t have, they have us. We had no one to guide us. We had to figure things out ourselves and sometimes because of all of the gaslighting and conditioning from our parents, we got it wrong. But now that Mr. Tudor has given us awareness, we can help our children. We can plant seeds to help guide and my hope is that they will become aware much quicker then we did.
I hate narcissism too!
Thank you Leigh, that is true, and very encouraging.
@ A Victor
“I hate my parents because I didn’t know, good parents would tell you that this exists and teach you how to stay safe. I hate myself, for not knowing, for not teaching my children this. So the cycle continues.”
You are so right. The trick is to break the cycle. It is never too late. I wish I had known then what I know now. How to recognise toxic behaviour and nip it in the bud.
Invalidating is so bad for children. All of us are guilty to a certain extent. When you think about it, you require a license to drive a car, but anyone can have kids. Then it is presumed you know how to bring them up. All you know is your own experience. Society is indeed guilty of producing psychopaths.sociopaths and mentally ill people.Then not caring.
The statement Apathy Kills is correct, as is stupidity causes as much damage as evil….
Thanks Anna, you are correct, it is never too late, that is encouraging.
That’s a great point and I’m happy for everyone, including HG, for this. I was thinking of other psychopaths also when I wrote that. I listened to a recent interview last night in which HG reminded the audience that most psychopaths never kill anyone. That was a good reminder and made the emptiness less terrifying.
It was initially terrifying to me because of the description of the sense by which people around him can feel it when it happens. Also, I can’t even imagine feeling that way. I have struggled with a sense of self and with feeling my emotions but I’ve not struggled with feeling emptiness as he describes it here. I think for me that would be terrifying, except that it wouldn’t because if I had it, I’d be like HG.
The realization that they are predators, that this is just a fact, is a big part of it for me. Different from me in ways I can’t understand, they recognize and embrace these differences, it is so cold. Yet we can’t see it, speaking with HG is pleasant and fun, and yet this is the truth behind the pleasant and fun. One of the most difficult parts for me in learning about narcissism has been accepting the fact that there are bad people in the world. This plays with my mind regarding that.
One other reason that it hit me that way is that I believe my ex has this and I and my children lived with it for many years. What that emptiness makes them capable of, and having had it in close proximity without realizing what it was, hit a nerve. I am curious if sociopaths experience the emptiness also, I had thought that was what he was, but I saw that hyper focus at times, the very low need for fuel, the playing with people out of boredom, the fearlessness and other things. His diagnosis of ASPD doesn’t help either. I denied it when he told me and through much of our marriage but in hindsight, he has many markers. My parents do not have it, there is a difference between them and he. The really interesting thing for me is that I never “felt” afraid of him, though there were times I did not question him.
I have been watching Criminal Minds Evolutions with a great deal of interest. The character named by the BAU as Sicarius reminds me so much of my ex, I know it is a character and therefore likely not accurate in all ways but eerily similar behavior to my ex in many ways. Same with the portrayals I’ve seen of Ted Bundy. There is a photo of Ted, his girlfriend and her daughter on horses, it looks just like us, when I see that photo, it sends chills through me.
I thought a bit about these things yesterday, after I wrote that comment, why it had struck me like that. Thank you for your comment, it caused me look at it further.
AV, reading what you wrote, I thought the same thing: “But your ex-husband also had a psychopath element in him.” Of course, I can’t be sure, but I remember what you wrote about him – and especially how you felt him.
N2 has it too. I would drown in a puddle of vomit and tears if I knew the whole truth. I don’t want to know her. I can’t. Not now.
N1 was pure Narcissist.
Hi Joa, I would not want to know the truth either, what I do know is too much already.
I love your “I don’t follow stupid rules.” I am the same, believe it or not. Many do not, until they see it.
What I’ve learnt here is that what a narc/psycho is is capable of doing and what they will actually do are often 2 very different things.
The scariest narcs/psychos in my view are the ones that are willing to get caught
The rest rely on you being scared of what they may do rather than them actually doing it
I agree. You should see my ex’s rap sheet, and the 20 year gap when he was with me. He has avoided prison by the skin of his teeth, spent lots of time in jail. Sadly, if he was any other color, he would’ve been in prison long before I met him. Many of our early dated started at his PO’s office, me waiting in the car, my car mind you, with my baby. This is why I had him pegged as a sociopath, and wondered if they have the emptiness also. I was too naive for my own good. Anyway, he never actually did anything to us, thank God. Besides…lots of things, but nothing of the caliber that he was capable of. I am actually glad at this point that I didn’t know where he was and what he was doing when he wasn’t with us.
Years before I knew I wasn’t supposed to look, in one of his mugshots, he was flirting with the camera person, absolutely unafraid, he was having fun. That photo told me he would get off again, and he did. He is very charming. Having seen that same expression many times, it made me almost vomit, but at least my naivete was gone.
Psychopath, sociopath, narc, emptiness or not, I should’ve never been with this man. How the hell did I not know this.
@ A Victor
Some psychopaths lead normal lives and do good. Some professions such as surgery or the police force require people who have strong control over their emotions.
Not all criminals are psychopaths either.
At the end of the day it is choice. They choose to do good or bad.
HG for example, he has chosen to do good as Leigh said above.
Unless someone has a disease such as schizophrenia which can cause legal “insanity” thus they are not in control of what they do, then they have a choice.
I find it distasteful actually that mental illness is demonised the way it is.
Yes, it’s all choice, as with anyone else. And yes, many do good things.
Thinking about this a little more, I suppose the LOC affects psychopathy? If a person with that personality disorder were raised in a home with normal or empathic parents, not in one with LOC, they would likely make different choices, as anyone would.
It is distasteful how mental issues are demonized. It is getting better though.
My ex was a sociopath. He had limited emotional range. Even in the bedroom. I remember taking this amazing cruise, nothing excites him that much. He loved winning at poker or making money or going 45 minutes for used fruit to save money. Anytime he felt he got one over money wise, oh boy! Pleased but nothing else. Lies around bored unusually. Not many emotions. He has no friends too.
Mine had a lot of friends, no one deep though. But you really hit that on the head, the lack of enthusiasm for life, unless it was something related to money, pulling one over on someone etc, yes! Nothing. He was very laid back… Haha. That’s what I thought at first. And such a nice change from my crazy mother. Nothing ruffled his feathers. But over time it became a thing. And yes, even in the bedroom. So boring.
Contagious and AV,
I remember my husband’s mother said that about him, that he couldn’t be her son because he was so composed, laid back, no sense of humour or goofiness about him. She called him dull and boring, no spark of life behind his eyes….little did I know, she was describing a narcissist with no set facade. She was describing him as a child and I remember that, I recorded it in my memory. She said that to me back in 2002. She found his behavior odd and she was diagnosed bipolar and on medication for it.
His mother was mostly nice to me, the times she wasn’t, her medication had to be adjusted. She kept my husband’s family together, she was the backbone of the family. She passed away last year and I was so traumatized by LMRSOMATIC treatment of me, that I couldn’t even mourn her or even cry for her at her funeral or even after….part of me wasn’t capable of anymore heartache or letting it in. I felt numb at her funeral, instead I went into observation mode and watched my husband’s family act up for attention. His brother didn’t even show up, the criminal brother. His middle brother was standing at the casket preaching his daily sermon, he thinks himself a godly man and wanna be pastor….he’s a religious narcissist. He’ll make crude jokes about sex, then preach to you about God, hypocrite and sicko. I see him, I see him.
His daughter was told , not to bring her little daughter because she won’t be quiet and behave, she’s too young for a funeral. What did she do, brings her anyway and then makes a scene correcting her child’s behavior during funeral service. Attention seeking, much? I see you too.
His step-dad, was busy looking upset and budding up to his sister, who he was trying to move in with and live off of. Thankfully, she told him no later. She’s smart, she sees a user in her brother. I just sat and watched it all unfold before me, seeing what I learned from HG happening in the now. It was like watching a train wreck, I couldn’t stop it, nor could I stop watching it. It was very enlightening and I couldn’t unsee any of it.
Thanks HG, for giving me my new eyes and the knowledge to know what I’m seeing. Xx I appreciate you and your knowledge! Xx
An excellent read, HG. Thank-you for sharing your inner world with us.
You are welcome, WC.
The sense of emptiness is the most terrifying thing of all. Probably worse than the rage.
Rage or fury might mean you are capable of terrible things, but emptiness means you are capable of the unimaginable.
Being the ‘doer’ and not the ‘done to’ takes on a whole new meaning in this context.
I agree with regard to the emptiness, the embracing of the emptiness.
I’ll Keep (it) Short (&) Simple 🙂
This is a fascinating read and thank you for composing it. This article adds more to what I had already heard from ie other sources of your work (KTN blog / YT).
Having said that, I can understand a great deal more about your need for several aspects of your life that are not connected to each other (the only main connection, is you). Including more than one avenue on the professional fields that you operate in. As a whole, is what keeps you interested with the choice to move quickly from one to another.
Once again, thank you, for what you do for people to access the inner workings (of the minds) of those with narcissism; psychopathy; victims of both areas. I much appreciate your time, HG 🙂 xx
Shivering and oddly mesmerising at the same.. you are different.. we absolutely are of different worlds there is no doubt.
But then again you compose such a beautiful music which equals the essence of a heartstring.. How difficult to understand you are.. Indeed a brilliant disguise it must be.
Jordyguin, nothing about this text hypnotized me. I just remembered a few situations from which I had to get out once.
When it comes to composing music, it’s best to go back 9 posts and re-read THOROUGHLY. Each of us here, boasting about logical thinking, is unfortunately far from cold logic. But… thanks to this cumulative, charming mystification, I met a lot of intriguing things. For example, I am currently in awe of a great composer like Peter Sandberg, and especially his little album “Dismantle”, which I especially love thanks to HG.
He also never lied. I couldn’t blame him. He just didn’t correct my train of thought sometimes. He allowed us to come to our own conclusions and accept them as the truth.
He presented half-truths. He left the rest to us.
He was cold. Always a stranger. Always only next to us.
Although I was warmed by the warmth and fabulous atmosphere…
He brought me back to life. He made a child smile and burst out laughing, who hadn’t laughed for several years… He made me able to be the little girl I was again. I finally felt safe, belonged and understood. He was the best, fascinating, interesting companion of my childhood life. And tenderness, pride, trust and warmth constantly overflowed in my heart.
“I can live with one woman only for five years at most” – he told her, when she married him. He satisfied her always exuberant ambitions – he allowed her to escape from a small town, look down on former friends, gave her prestige and high social status. He taught her to drive a car. She graduated from a university. Holidays several times a year.
From time to time he charged her a strong fee for these privileges. Sometimes I heard. Sometimes I felt. My body was stiff then and my eyes were wide open. I don’t know if I was blinking or breathing at all. There were times, when I would freeze for several hours and not move an inch.
He kept us with him for 17 years. Indeed, only the first 5 years he was an impeccable husband and a wonderful father, whom every child envied. Us, previously unnoticed or pitied. Pride filled our hearts. He was lively, strong, intelligent, cultured and respected.
Dozens of photos remain from this period. Changing scenery, sea, mountains, forest, lake, skis, ice skates, roller skates, bicycle, swimming – on each of them he and two little girls, still holding his hands, staring at him with delight. Laughing faces.
His jokes and fantastic stories were second to none. (He don’t know this, but modified episodes of the series: “When daddy was young and stupid” I told my daughter…)
I still remember the warmth of his firm hand, my gratitude and admiration.
He taught me to catch perspective, to sketch with pencil and charcoal.
When he was designing buildings and complexes of buildings, next him, I was designing rooms in our new house, playing with tracing or coloring projects on old rolls design.
While the other children were building a simple snowman in the winter, we were making snow and ice carvings of magnificent half-naked sculptures of ancient deities. Some were faithful reproductions of classic sculptures, others were equipped with funny elements. His attention to the anatomical details of these sculptures made people stop in awe.
“Who would you like to be?” – he asked before the carnival balls and created amazing creations for us with his own hands. No outfit bought or rented could compare to it. (He don’t know this, but I later created equally imaginative carnival costumes for my child…).
I enjoyed playing badminton with him. I was fast and had a light wrist. He liked to play with me.
I loved walking with him. Enjoyable, informative and revealing.
He was the only one I hated and was so afraid of. He was the only one who appeared in my manic nightmares almost every day for several years, although we managed to get rid of him forever.
I haven’t seen him in 25 years. I don’t know anything about him, except that he’s still alive.
My sister saw him by chance a year ago. He was riding his bike, energetic, tanned. “Believe me, he nothing has changed, it looks completely the same” – she said. My gosh, he’ll be 85 in April…
I have nothing to say to him. As if he was never there…
Only remnants of him are left in me. I cleaned everything I could, dug up, tore out, replaced, dissolved. A few rusty rods, overgrown with my living flesh, must be left forever. It’s the stiff part of me.
I hadn’t thought about him a long time. This segment of life is now like a dream.
Have you been in my life for real? The photos confirm it. My memory too. And yet… I don’t remember you.
As if you were and weren’t.
What the hell were you!?
My dearest Joa,
For the first time in my life I may shift now and then to call things a coincidence despite my spectre mind and heart knows better.. Music, art, words – „it can’t be“ if you could see.. We’re all puzzle pieces of a masterpiece for now and it will all make sense one day.
My heart goes out to you, my dear! Thank you also for sharing that experience in your other comment, you went through and succeeded!
Let’s celebrate! Let’s have a tea party at Mad Hatters and break as many teacups as we want! Let’s have a pie fight, laughing, dancing, screaming until Red Queen’s palace windows crack!
And as the stars will quietly rise and we’ll sit by the peaceful river, let’s put the comfy blanket out of space around our shoulders and breath in the vastness which is us..
Oh look, there is the Morningstar – he outshines them all! Hmmm let’s check? Uuumm yeah, I think he just can’t help himself, he is the brightest deep sea creature in the abyss.. and there are so many – want to catch his light, to understand his game of vision.. his life and death and life again.. His silence is so loud it never was supposed to be.. the paradox of eternity.
Thank you Jordyguin, each of us will try to catch what we need from life.
Believing – do not forget about the conditional asterisk of Narcissus 🙂
Consider this Jordyguin, the celebration that you describe would be terrifying to me, I have no desire to break things, scream, have pie fights. Yet, I am going out on a limb here and it is not comfortable for me, but I believe that HG would be as entertained by figuring you out, and breaking you, as he would by doing so with me. It is the differences in us that keep life interesting. It is chilling and it is a brilliant disguise that anyone thinks this way.
What’s pure is pure, what breaks are masks and memories.
Those are the screams of joy and delight of an open heart, dear Vic.
(He already has figured everyone out)
I hug you heart to heart. I see you care deeply🌸🤍🌸
(..to your eternity..)
I am glad you recognize this, that he has us figured out already. You’re doing well then.
I do care. But I hate hugs.
Oh Jordyguin, also, thank you for the song, very lovely. Please forgive my shortness, I’m going through a little…transition time at the moment, it’s making me a little sensitive, which is translating to bitchy. I do not have an open heart currently, maybe someday. I probably still won’t scream, but maybe I’ll clap my hand a little bit…😏
Hi A V
I suspect (I might be wrong) that HG has all of us figured out already—no thrill of the hunt or challenge.
Narcissists in general – that is different.
What is unnerving is a study I read; they got prisoners to point out who they may choose as potential victims. Those they chose had been victims previously. Rather scary and sad.
My cloak of being average and uninteresting – does not always work. A recent scrape has highlighted this. But at least now I can pinpoint the exact moment and reason that I was a target.
Yes, I am sure this is true. He has us pegged.
Yes, we are always revictimized, if we allow it.
I hope my new cloak, of being informed, serves better protection.
Vic, I stan that clap😎 It’s perfect. And what came up in many comments as well. Emptiness and darkness is not evil per se. What tames the emptiness is mesmerising – the individual who is capable of it.
No, not evil per se, I would personally say more sad, though HG would disagree. I’m not sure the emptiness is tameable. Containable, yes, tameable, not really.
Yep, whatever it is he is taming, containing – all marbles are in place.