Knowing the Narcissist : How Your Emotional Thinking Causes Excuses
THIS IS A KEY ARTICLE IN TERMS OF BOLSTERING YOUR UNDERSTANDING.
The fact for so long you had no idea what you were dealing with resulted in you engaging in an anticipated behaviour. This behaviour is one which we regularly rely on in order to keep you in the dark. I have made mention of the various traits which we look for in those who make the most useful victims to us.
One of those traits concerns your ability to try to find the good in everyone and everything. This is a typical empathic trait and along with all of the others which you possess causes you to flare up on our radar when we are seeking an excellent primary source. Your desire to see good means that it obscures your ability to see the bad or perhaps more accurately, to accept the bad.
This is how your emotional thinking once again cons you and causes you to fail to see what is really happening, how you make excuses for the behaviour. Your emotional thinking craves the interaction with us, it is selfish and wants to experience all of the ‘good’ which flows from us and to convince you to ignore the bad. Your emotional thinking does not want you to acknowledge what is really going on and exit the relationship.
Your emotional thinking wants to gag logic so it cannot be heard and cause you to overlook the bad in the hope of recovering the good once again. Thus, your emotional thinking will make you issue excuse after excuse for what we do, so you remain invested in the relationship with us.
Accordingly, your emotional thinking continues our control of you. It is those who are empathic who suffer from this effect from their emotional thinking. They are convinced to consider their action as selfless, a reflection of how they wish to see the ‘good’ in people, how they make allowances and are tolerant – but when you are ensnared with our kind, all that is happening is that you are being prevented, by your own emotional thinking, from seeing what is truly happening and this is to your detriment.
Of course, at the time it is happening, you cannot see it happening because your insight is impaired by the emotional thinking. Occasionally, logic might just make itself heard (only to be ignored) as you notice that a certain behaviour is not acceptable but your emotional thinking rises once again and swamps that logic before it can gain a foothold in your mind.
Emotional thinking whispers that excuse for you and it is easier to accept that than go along the rocky road of logic. Thus, your emotional thinking keeps you blinded to the truth and it is only later when you have been punched in the face by the gauntlet of brutal honesty that you finally pay heed to logic and with hindsight realise how you have been conned. It happens over and over again and is all because of your emotional thinking gaining control of your thoughts.
This is something we desire because it prevents you from truly recognising what it is that is happening to you once your devaluation has begun. We of course love to operate from a position of plausible deniability, we court ambiguity since we enjoy and need to twist and turn in order to achieve what we want.
If you saw everything as stark and clear as I now describe our machinations to you, you would be more inclined to escape us and bring about that unwelcome cessation of our primary source of fuel. It would also make it harder to apply those hoovers when we wish to return you to the fold and have you engage in our cyclical endeavours once again.
We present you with the truth of what we are on a repeated basis but although we offer it up in front of you, we never let you see it clearly. We draw a veil across certain elements, apply a smoke screen, obscure some parts and distort others. The reality is there before you.
It is evident and plain but because of the way in which we purposefully manipulate you, you are unable to see it. It is akin to us pointing out a ship on the horizon. It is obvious for us to see but when we hand you a telescope to gain a better look at this vessel, the lens has been smeared with something which distorts the view, or we place our finger over part of the lens blocking your view.
The consequence of this distortion is to prevent you from truly seeing what we are. This in turn means that you are unable to form a clear and coherent view of the person which has taken hold of you. This becomes infuriating for others who we have not been able to drag into our façade, but who recognise full well what we are.
These observers tell you what you are dealing with. They may be circumspect to begin with, hoping not to offend your sensibilities but over time their increasing exasperation causes them to come out and say it straight. Yet, such candour rarely finds favour with you because you do not like to be told something about someone as wonderful as us (or at least someone who was wonderful).
You do not like to think that the golden period has gone. You do not like to be deprived of the idea that what you once had will never come back or even that it did not exist to begin with.
Most of the reasons why you think like this is as a consequence of our manipulative behaviour, which further goes to underline that it is not your fault. Even your desire to see the good in people is not your fault either. That is who you are. We know that and we exploit it. It is our fault again but of course in the midst of the battle that we engage in with you, we will never admit that anything is our fault. That will never do.
Thus, your view of us is obscured and because of this you will always issue excuses to explain away our behaviour, our words and our actions. You make these excuses time and time again, to others and to yourselves.
You believe these excuses because this is how you think and you have been led towards this train of thought by the schooling you have received at our manipulative hands and mouths. You also utilise these excuses to continue to convince yourself that the unsavoury elements of our behaviour are just an aberration, on occasional blip in respect of an otherwise magnificent person.
Your charity is amazing and naturally most welcome for through this blinkered approach you divest us of responsibility for the things we do, something which aligns with one of our many stated aims. You prevent yourself from examining further the reality of what has now ensnared you and the repeated application of these excuses keeps you in situ.
We want you to utilise these excuses. We want to hear them. We want them said to us and to others. Your excuses frustrate and alienate those who are against us, your excuses support out manufactured façade and most of all they ensure you deny to yourself that which is directly before you. Here are twenty-five of those such excuses. You will have said them and probably more than once. Understand that each time you utter one you have issued a further death knell for your prospects of escaping us.
- He is just tired; it makes him snap.
- He doesn’t mean it, not really.
- You don’t have to pretend with me, I just want you to be yourself.
- He has a lot on his mind at the moment.
- Work is particularly stressful for him.
- He sometimes has a bit too much to drink, but hey, who hasn’t been there?
- I think perhaps I am too harsh on him at times, it is my fault really.
- He is in a bad place but he will come through it.
- He is a complex person; you don’t understand him like I do
- It is just the way he is; I have got used to it.
- I know it seems bad but he does so much that is lovely; this is only a small part of what he is like.
- Nobody knows him properly, that’s why you think bad of him.
- He is a popular guy so he is always going to have women hitting on him.
- He has a temper, I know, but that’s part of what he is and it’s not for us to change him.
- I need to be more supportive and then he will be better.
- He’s not well at the moment but I will help him get through it, you will see.
- You’ve only heard one side of the story; he is not like that at all.
- Yes, well, his family would say that about him to cover up what they did to him.
- All he needs is to be loved and I am the one who is going to do that for him.
- You don’t know what you are saying anymore, it is okay, I do understand.
- It was a one-off, it won’t happen again.
- I know it was wrong but this time he has promised that he won’t do it anymore.
- You don’t understand the way that me and him are together.
- You are just jealous of what we have. Why can’t you be pleasedfor us, for my sake?
- I’m sorry, it was my fault.
Sound familiar?
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111 thoughts on “Knowing the Narcissist : How Your Emotional Thinking Causes Excuses”
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* oops meant classic martyrs and cadre martyrs
I have a question for folks here. I have an experience sometimes that I am wondering whether anyone else has had, or something adjacent. I’m curious as to whether its a product of excessive empathy. It can happen with a few influential people I remember fondly. Since grandpa is the only one I’ll introduce here, I’ll use him as an example.
A few things to first note.
I’m not on drugs. Got a full plate sober. Have always had a phobia of ‘mind altering substances’ and wasn’t even curious as a kid. Drank for the sedative effect in my late teens and twenties but almost never want a drink now.
I’m not confusing people. This isn’t transferring dad’s good qualities onto a man that looks like him. I don’t ever confuse HG with grandpa or experience any overlap or switching between them. They remain separate. Each firmly planted in their respective times and place. One talking about narcissism now and the other long dead memory replaying as if alive. Living personal memories that is, not any sort of visitation by angels, spirits or someone’s soul.
Last note. There’s another very odd, wildly disparate sensation/metaphor that simultaneously accompanies these experiences that took me an awful long time to sort out, somewhat, and realize they were part of the conversations. Forgive the following brief synopsis.
‘Let the worms do their work.’ Strange phrase to pop into your head periodically. When reoccurring in my dreams, its active. Imagine your mind and body as hard, parched, over worked soil. Can’t bring it back without water and worms. Let the worms till and aerate it and then roots trace new tunnels following the worms. Its a natural process. It is supposed to happen. Just let it alone. Never really wanted to let it alone, but dreams don’t need my permission.
So.
When listening to HGs voice and manner of speaking I sometimes stop hearing the content of the video and up pops a memory. Brief example. Around age 2 or 3, grandpa would sing me to sleep with rounds of itsy bitsy spider while tickling my arm lightly like a friendly spider. That was the first few associations or dreams or conversations between HG and grandpa. The two of them continued on after that.
What is interesting to me about the experience is that these kind of memories are experienced in something like 3D. Feeling not simply the tickle up the arm but experiencing my body as smaller/younger and seeing the environment from whatever height I was at the time, reliving all the positive associated emotions associated with the time period then leaving the experience in a completely different head/heart space, tracers of the experience lingering. Very cool! Possibly delusional. Wish I hadn’t avoided these experiences so long. Just too weird and had to mature to ‘fuck it, so what if I’m crazy.’
The psychological description that comes closest is an abreaction. So far as I can gather, abreactions aren’t ever paired with positive experiences though. The similarities are an interaction between something happening in the moment, like listening to HG, linking up unexpectedly and independently with memories.
Like suddenly being a silent party on a conversation between now and then. I’m not part of their discussion, just listening. What is living is only the soil being kneaded, water, worms and dormant circuits firing again. Now and then remain elsewhere.
This has been a very long winded way to ask, how do other empaths experience memories of positive feelings, especially the most influential positive memories of your lives? Thanks!
Hi, Niffty–
These days to manage my ET I try not to dwell on memories about feelings, whether positive or negative. Therefore, I don’t experience them as much or as intensely as I used to and that releases me to deal with the present and plan for the future.
Thank you Allison. Maybe it will fade for me as well. Most of the more difficult things have been fairly well resolved. I wonder whether that is why the positive things are breaking through now. I don’t think about my grandparents often anymore. That’s why I was so surprised just hearing a familiar voice brought on such a rush of vivid memories. All good though. Moving on.
Hi Niffty: my dreams are lucid with me in them like a film. But when I listen to HG, my lawyer brain kicks in and it becomes analytic. It’s wonderful he lets us ask questions!!! I am happy you enjoy his material and more to come with the new channel:)!!
Niffty, your descriptions are really interesting…. I’d say the dream life would be unique for each individual but at the same time you have a very clear sight of your dreams, abreactions, memories and your ’dreaming body’. No you’re not crazy. You’re just capable of transcending dreams into understanding… To relieve your memories in a way you described (feeling from your smaller, younger body, height perspective) is really advantageous and practical in order to gain an accurate perspective of where you perceived as a child and what formed you, what made you into who you are and that it was a process of alignment, of which usually no child has any control whatsoever… If you remember to breathe, whilst taking in the memory by the inhale, relieve it/leave it in the past with the exhale, you may find that you can gain more energy /clarity after a memory-relieving incident. Not always but sometimes it works.
It’s great that you never took mind altering substances and are not interested in them. After all, females are natural dreamers, they don’t need it. Males are more solid for valid reasons thus substances can have a softening effect on them, when they take substances it can create a shift which can free lots of dreaming energy for them, where they all of a sudden make life changing adjustments to their lives. But as mentioned it can be a very dangerous route with all the substances and no one knows how it would turn out. It can go very bad.
Perhaps HG and Neil could delve deeper into psychic spies/remote viewing one day if it’s something Neil has knowledge about as part of ’mind control conspiracy theories’. The topic has to do with altering states of perception which all come from dreaming, naturally.
Thanks Jordy.
Only mentioned drugs because I knew how what I was describing would sound. Especially the worms. I don’t judge people who can manage or enjoy whatever substances so long as the harm to themselves and others is limited. And I am aware of studies of LSD in a controlled setting for healing trauma but would never consent. I can’t imagine anything more terrifying than surrendering control, even if faulty, to unknown chemical effects.
Alignment would be nice. Its disorienting to have such vivid dreams or memories free floating all out of sequence. Disorienting, but not necessarily debilitating. Writing helps for some reason. Maybe it at least establishes episodic order. I’ll keep it up when I can.
Appreciate your feedback. Take care!
Love that you have 7 dogs! Horses are smart, good company as well. The only thing I ever wanted to be growing up was a veterinarian. Read and reread James Herriot. Only reluctantly gave it up mid teens when I learned it would mean at least another decade of school after high school. Enjoy good or challenging classes. Just hate school. Barely eked out an undergraduate liberal arts degree. GNA license was confined to nursing skills and background check, so that worked out for a while. Have trouble understanding and meeting standards set in school sometimes, which eliminated academic careers.
Helpful outline in line with this thread on YouTube. If curious search Neuroscientist Answers Emotion Questions | Tech Support | WIRED
That’s a good one! Thank you for sharing! … ’Mandala of emotions’ – great term he used!
I don’t trust the Dalai Lama though, he fooled us all. HG made a video. Check this out:
Ohhh thank you! I will check that out! Always interested in neuroscience!
I love horses, went to horse back riding camp but never had the money to have them:) beautiful majestic creatures! Again no two contagions alike, I love school and would go forever for fun! I take French now formerly took Spanish and once took film for fun;)
Yes to both 1 and 2. Especially if I hear wretching. Then I have to flee before I vomit or dry heave. Hate to throw up!
Its difficult not to match ‘the vibe.’ Try to stick to small groups if I can’t work alone. Have to quickly jettison regularly abusive people or substance abusers. Too destabilizing.
Yes I’m open. More like direct. Not interested in opening up much in person for a good while and repelled by premature probing. Have no problem with lying to people who insist on getting too intrusive.
Actually think we might be very good at lying because we can modify content based on how its received. In other words, we can tell when we’re not believed. We have a pretty good read on who they think we are and can fill that role so they back off none the wiser.
I’ve had a sort of opposite experience to yours with the Swedish neighbor sometimes. If I stop the pull into feeling as them I’m good at just staying by when most people flee. Worked in nursing homes and hospice with patients and families and that was one of my favorite parts of the job. Especially when families get so overwhelmed and stressed. I’m not saying its enjoyable. Just nice to sit there knowing its doing them some good.
Love the SoCal Ocean in winter. No people. Some diehard surfers. Prefer the woods. Greener and enclosed.
Thanks for asking. Helps to figure things out. Take care.
Hi Niffty:
I find your responses so interesting. No two contagions the same but many similarities. So you love nature but prefer the woods, I am totally a beach girl. You take on physical ailments, I don’t but someone’s feelings can cause mine like the Swedish lady. I suck in her pain inside even when not manifest outwardly by her. We both don’t like any general vibe of angst, anxiety or anger and prefer small groups, one on one. You are direct. I am open. Do I lie? I suppose my legal training is more about twists on the truth lol. You pull away from their emotions to remain a rock. I try to be a rock. More of a sponge. HG has not discussed the origins of contagion empaths. He says we are “ rare” especially majority. I think once he does, we will understand more the “ whys.” He has educated on the origins of narcs, and CoDs. Any guesses where the contagion comes from? I listed some studies. And he says those with the highest contagion see auras. I don’t. Do you? So lovely to converse! X
🙂 I’m default to sponge on autopilot. Had to train myself to push back. In my 20s a very good friend suggested imagining a deep purple forcefield/bubble to keep from ‘taking on’ people or warning them off. Works for me pretty well. Just have to be paying attention to turn it on. Its never automatic.
Good friend! You’re lucky! Now where can we get this friend?! I need a constant reminder.
One more thought on our origins. While we may start to take shape with narcissists and psychopaths in similar environments, I was blessed with interveners who interrupted negative experiences. That likely sent me towards empathy as well. They modeled it for me. So when I had to return to coping with toxic people at least I knew there was another way to react to the world.
Hey Niffty, here is where I deviate. Narcs and some say psychopaths come from unstable environments with no interveners plus they have the gene. This is HG’s education. He says the cake is baked at 9. I have read others who say by 3. I prefer HG. I came from a secure environment. Not perfect. Dad definite empath. Mom is normal. My father’s side are so kind and humble and loving and authentic that they are near saints. My mother’s side well my grandfather was a jerk but I never saw him a lot, never liked him and stayed away. I haven’t had a lot of narcs in my life personally. I was shocked by my ex narc as unprepared really. HG helped so much. Professionally hell yeah! But HG does say that an intervener can create a different outcome for a child like creating an empath! So I don’t know if we are close to narcs as to their origins but it’s a good theory. Maybe we are both right? I think I was born this way and married a narc and was shocked as no prior personal experience really so I needed HG. I think some of us are just born empaths raised by empaths and that’s what we know. As for contagions, I suspect our brains are wired different and I listed some science supporting this. You believe in precog? HG does not. When I told him about my dreams some referenced. He said “ coincidence.” I just think too many coincidences is not a coincidence but I have no idea at all where it comes from. None. And I have looked…. Since I have Faith, I default to God. But that’s just my personal view…. 😉
Good Morning.
No! I don’t believe in precognition. Don’t believe in intuition either for the most part. The point I took away from the movie was just because we can get a strong sense doesn’t make it an accurate reflection of the person or situation. It may well be purely personal, something provoked by external input but not of it.
In the movie, Precrime cops weren’t informed of the potential for a minority report that wasn’t in alignment with the other reports. The cops were led to believe by people in power that precognition was infallible so that they would take corrective action. Once Cop Cruise figures that out they plant an erroneous precognition and have his former unit hunt him down.
Precogs were bred for purpose by the government in the movie. If I remember correctly, possibly from the book, all the precogs they attempted to engineer went mad except for one set of triplets that Precrime ultimately relied upon to determine who to arrest, imprison or kill before they had actually committed a crime.
The only piece I remember identifying with strongly was how horrifying it would be to be floating in a tank, sedated, while all manner of criminal scenarios ran through your mind and body like a database. Its a good movie, but the Precog bit is probably what made it so memorable for me.
I don’t share your faith. I do respect it. I was raised Catholic and still value some of the teachings. I’m agnostic. I’ll allow for the possibility I’m missing something. For me, faith or transcendence isn’t necessary to care deeply about people. Life itself seems miracle enough.
I’m suspicious when coincidences start to pile up as well. I just plant a flag and keep an eye on them.
Take care!
Ohhh I like that! I would tell my children when little before sleep to picture Glenda from the Wizard of Oz taking them into her pink glittery bubble and keeping them safe when sleeping! Thanks for sharing!!!! I appreciate all of your responses;)
I get a sense our origins are similar to narcissists or psychopaths. Maybe something in our DNA sent us off in a different direction. Even before I had a name for it, I’ve always felt like excessive contagion is a defense mechanism. Its a hypersensitivity to people’s moods and feelings because that’s the only thing keeping us safe.
That’s deep, Niffty!… You know HG once explained the thing with the clock… the further the empath is on the empathy spectrum the closer to midnight. One o’clock are narcissists, 11 are those empaths. Separated just by one hour.
Contagion as a defence mechanism, I never thought of it like this…. Something in our DNA! I think so too.
Yeah. That’s the one caveat to being addicted to some people. I’m not saying its wrong. Just that once you deal with the addiction as best you can, the fellow traveler is still something to reckon with from a safe distance. Otherwise we just indulge in our own black and white thinking, getting us nowhere. Me victim, you bad man is just lather, rinse, repeat.
Hi Niffty:
I think the brain is wired differently. I came from a secure environment but was “ contagion” as a young child. I lean to DNA. Neurology. I think contagion’s emotional intellect comes from a brain’s region. I was tested to be gifted as a child but my mother chose not to put me in a special school. I don’t know what gifted even means. I wasn’t a math wizard or a piano maestro… I just found school easy and was very creative and intuitive. But I get your valid point… is it hyper sensitive to others for a reason such as safety or as lady Gaga says and I believe that we were simply born that way. Or were we socialized to be? Did we adopt role model behavior or all? Who knows?
I’m sure there are multiple ways to get to a similar place. I’ve always hated ‘adversity builds character.’ As HG might say, horseshit. If it doesn’t kill you first, maybe you can pick up some tips but there are likely lots of less damaging ways to learn. Nothing wrong with a good challenge and can’t avoid every pitfall. I just don’t think adversity is some great teacher. If you’re lucky you can salvage something, but that’s about it.
Hi, Niffty–
I’m inclined to agree that it’s not just the adversity itself that builds character. I think that’s down to the person deciding what to do with it, nothing special about the trouble itself, coupled with the interaction of genetics. I’ve found it really helpful to learn about my own LOCE growing up through HG’s work. Even though my DNA mix clearly means that I didn’t have the internal ingredients to become a narcissist, I still must decide how I respond to what’s happened to me. I’m an empath by nature, but I determine how I carry myself. It wasn’t automatic that tough times built a tough person. I’m choosing that each day. The adversity didn’t do it.
I’ve heard that traumatic experience builds character most from people who haven’t experienced it (trauma being the damage, not just specific happenings). I want to punch them in the throat, but instead I keep my hands to myself. Very daintily folded in my lap. No point in me going to jail because of them. I’ve got shit to do.
Hello,
That sounds about right. Not that I have discovered the precise healing recipe. Just deal best as able. When I was younger I thought enough therapy would fix me. Realize now a fixed human means something else. Just trying to stay more or less healthy now and do no harm.
The DNA thing puzzles me. Given my family tree it seems highly probable I have narcissists traits lurking. Not sure whether there are corollary empathic traits in the helix or if nurture overcame nature. Not really more than an academic concern accept I’m interested in family systems and history.
Thanks for the input!
For the record. I wasn’t bragging about lying. Most my life I just blurted out honest answers to direct questions, even when to do so made me nauseous. Think it wasn’t until my late 30s that it occurred to me that I could make shit up instead.
One of the difficulties of being transparently empathic is that people presume you’re naive, dim or lacking self worth. The perfect pushover. I’ve been called Amish, a Luddite and the like. My favorite was ‘I’m just trying to help you expand your horizons.’ Replied I’m perfectly capable of establishing my own horizons, thank-you.
I got tired of repeating myself. I’m open in the sense that I don’t mind being vulnerable, have no shame around shortcomings or mistakes. Just have to pick and choose when its an appropriate person to open up with, need to be sure its reciprocal. Once its clear someone is not going to accept my answers or polite deflection and are trying to push me in another direction, then they’re a candidate for stories.
Its easy to part with someone in the early stages of dating or friendship if lies are required. Most of the time its necessary with coworkers or bosses.
Haven’t listened to Kevin in awhile but he popped up in my feed again. Maybe its out there, but I had never heard of ‘reverse breadcrumbing.’ Good follow on to defensive lies. Begin with the knowledge that the most persuasive lies need to be laced with truth. And follow up with storytelling as a temporary tactic, not lifestyle choice. Knew that when I wrote previously but wasn’t explicit. Glad Kevin reminded me.
If interested see: Reverse breadcrumbing a narcissist: Is it worth it? | The Royal We
Thank you Niffty! I’ll check it out!
***
I watched and listened to historians about Olga!! Oh boy! Fierce!
(History is fascinating! I’m on the trail of the ancient architecture conspiracy theory right now. The advanced technology does not match up with how history paints the process…)
Neat. Love Mayan and Aztec abd Inca culture. More Oh boy! HG mentioned Slow Horses yesterday. Found a great Mick Herron audio book channel. Mystery Orchid. Contemporary Oh Boy. Better than Bond and Bourne. Take care.
Good morning Niffty, I watched the Kevin video… I’m shocked at how bad and dangerous his advice is.
He is suggesting to stay in the presence of the narcissist and continue to feed him challenge fuel by manipulating the narcissist with what he calls “reverse breadcrumbing” — it’s impossible and an error. It’s misinformation.
From the top of my head; why you can’t manipulate a narcissist:
How To Beat The Narcissist At His Own Game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtUVVG6ubNA
What To Say To A Narcissist To Shut Them Down Permanently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xghy9DcfTo0
Insulting the Narcissist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmJC5U7GGkM
No Good Advice : Dealing with Toxic Behaviour
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIDhZsjOsAU
How to Reduce Giving Fuel to a Narcissist
Actually he says repeatedly not to stay. He is opposed to grey rock as well. He clearly states that the only time it might be theoretically feasible is as a tactic to keep the peace only in conjunction with an exit strategy. He unequivocally states not to try this long-term or with someone violent. Better yet, just get out immediately if possible. I wouldn’t share something that might endanger someone. I was curious because it was a tactic I had not heard spelled out before, though most of us likely do it unconsciously with difficult people.
The actual Comfort Crumbs.
Manipulation : Comfort Crumbs
Like HG, Kevin’s 1st, 2nd and 3rd recommendation is consistently get out.
Slow down and listen Jordy. It sounds to me as though ‘reverse breadcrumbing’ is a tactic that has been brought to Kevin’s attention by victims so they can justify safely staying with narcissists. He sounds to me as though he’s trying to talk them out of it. Rather than directly confront them, he seems to be trying to get them to severely limit when to try this sort of harm mitigation and points out how it could go horribly wrong.
In other words, he sounds like a parent to teenagers: ‘Don’t do it. But at least insist on a condom.’
Hi Niffty, I hope this finds you well.
I know you were not intending to share something that might endanger someone, but you see, what he stated in his video demonstrates his lack of understanding of the narcissistic dynamic. From the start he is suggesting for the victim to play ’not to feel’ whilst catering to the narcissist’s needs by performing an act of emotional reactions and responses i.e. manipulating the narcissist into believing in the receipt of true emotional reactions and responses.
The reality is: faking and pretending is a) not so much in the empath’s design to begin with and b) fake emotional responses won’t work with a narcissist because they are calibrated to feed off true emotional responses only and they know how to get those out of their victims, instinctively or consciously, the victim will be made to react in the manner the narcissist requires.
The victim staying and engaging with the narcissist would lead to adverse consequences of increasing the emotional thinking. And it’s dangerous in itself for a victim to remain in the presence of the narcissist during devaluation and especially during ignitions of fury which can come out of nowhere.
From the video transcript of Mr Kevin’s video on reverse breadcrumbing. Right away from the start he places the idea which will increase the emotional thinking of the empath, which will then mislead.
2:23 — “So breadcrumbing a narcissistic person what we’re calling reverse breadcrumbing is giving them them bits and pieces of chaos why because that’s what they desire. They desire chaos so you breadcrumb them with little bits and pieces of your emotions and your reactions not real emotions and reactions much like how narcissistic people breadcrumb you with bits of affection and love it’s not real love it’s not real affection it’s just breadcrumbs it’s whatever they’re willing to give you. You would be doing the same thing to a narcissistic person in theory you’d be breadcrumbing them with bits and pieces of an emotional reaction bits and pieces of chaos bits and pieces of you being disappointed and upset by the things that they’re saying bits and pieces of oh they really hurt you even though they truly haven’t. Theoretically reverse breadcrumbing could work in a long-term situation with the narcissistic person that you might be stuck in maybe narcissistic family members or perhaps a marriage.”
5:24 — “Reverse breadcrumbing would be faking and pretending to give them a little bit of an emotional response. It might look like you saying you know you’re really hurting me why are you doing this all the time you always start conflicts with me. And it may not be from a true emotional place but you’re breadcrumbing them enough to feel as though they’re getting something out of you and all the while while you’re doing this you’re actually protecting your true emotions you’re not allowing yourself to actually become emotional. You’re breadcrumbing them with enough chaos to get them to stop and leave you alone essentially. You’re breadcrumbing them to get them away from you all by providing them with just a little tiny bit of breadcrumb of an emotional response from you no matter how fake it is it’s an emotional response hopefully that’s going to satisfy their need for Supply their need to get a reaction from you and they’ll go way and they’ll leave you alone and they’ll feel like some kind of champion in their own sick and twisted mind they’ll feel like they won they’ll feel valued and yet you’re there still maintaining your peace because it’s just a breadcrumb it’s just a breadcrumb prior to you ever even getting emotional about the situation.”
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It’s a mess what he suggests…The only sound advice is: If you’ve determined the person you’re dealing with is a narcissist — you shouldn’t be there — you should have applied GOSO (get out and stay out).
The exceptions where dealings with narcissists can’t be avoided are addressed in the knowledge vault re divorce process, work, family, children, or through the consultation with HG where he works out a tactic accustomed to an individual’s circumstances… HG would never suggest staying and faking to have an emotional response for many reasons (as explained in the videos above).
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🐙✨
Niffty, just to clarify, I wasn’t accusing you of endangerouring… I’ve come across HG’s work as the first source on narcissism and psychopathy and delved into it without knowing what others are saying about it. Afterwards, I’d listen here and there to see what others had to say and I’m regularly disappointed and shocked by the misunderstandings in people’s content about narcissism, including the so-called experts.
There would be those who’d show interest in HG’s work and would interview him for instance like Dr. Bishara and it’s visible how they get their eyes opened on so many aspects they didn’t know and were not educated about in their profession. Furthermore HG’s terminology and explanations of how narcissism works is so well thought out and presented that I get an allergic reaction to less evolved explanations and terminology which is behind. Bear with me please, I’m not used to mediocrity by now, so my reactions would be straightforward where I see an error.
No worries love. With regards to the single video we were debating, you apparently heard Kevin recommending a course of action I heard him cautioning against. I was just startled someone might hear it as advice and I agree with you that would be dangerous.
Kevin is curious to me. He is a lifelong Christian and former Sunday school teacher. Like most Christians I know, he has practically memorized the Bible. Typically I’d avoid a religious slant. But I’ve been surprised he has been more direct and, in my opinion, more correct than some YouTube clinicians with regards to narcissism.
For example, one of the videos that sold me on Kevin was ‘Narcissist or Asshole?’ His response: ‘Who cares?! What difference does it make to you? If you have to ask, get out.’ I like straight talkers. And I like that he pushes us to look at our contribution to the drama without victim shaming. He calls us on our b.s. I welcome the virtual accountability partner.
I agree HG is a tremendous resource. I just like to hear things from multiple reliable sources and layer them. Sam Vaknin is the professor, dry but necessary textbook reviews of research and the literature providing a solid initial framework, the bare bones. HG is the refiner and narrator, a better detailed description of narcissists and fantastic first person narrator of approaches and experiences that I can’t make sense of on my own. And Kevin is my reminder not to arbitrarily dismiss a religious perspective.
🙂 Take good care Jordy 🙂
Fascinated by dolphins. Know the Navy funds studies. One professor at UCSD argued they were more intelligent than us.
Me too. Little whales! I hate their plight: Japan and captured into “ swim with the dolphin “ hellholes.
Last answer. Remember reality fairly well. I think. Got a couple areas of childhood amnesia that I’m content to let alone. Horrible at time keeping. My dream house has a different large print clock on every wall so I don’t get those little panic fits wondering what the hell time it is. And unless I’ve got to be somewhere what difference does the day of the week make?
HG, no. Dont think so. His voice, story telling and general snobbiness reminds me of my grandfather. A very good memory.
Had one bizarre dream about HG. A sort of trebuchet malfunctioned and kept hurling out enormous cartoon balloon looking faces but they were made of and candy like enormous Lucky Charms. Sticky marshmallow, garish multi-colored neon mocking carnival faces. Woke up in a panic because I couldn’t get around the faces filling space to shut a machine off that should have shut down on its own. It just kept flinging marshmallow faster and faster.
If HG is always the best then that may have been him because it definitely far and away tops the list of strangest dreams I can recall. It was out of character for me, completely unlike anything I usually dream. Similar to Mickey in Fantasia trying to stop the brooms and buckets from multiplying.
Oh my fellow contagion, I get it … those dreams!….but I had a dream of what he really looked like, where he lived and what he did….
Do tell, Contagious!!! What? Where? What did he do?
Let’s see if we dreamt of similar things!
I unilaterally promised HG I would not tell anything I just think I know. I never will. Never. Sorry! Xxxx
🙂 Good Answer 🙂
I understand your choice Contagious🐶💕
Not so long ago HG mentioned that he finds the recalling of dreams not interesting unless those dreams would involve HG and because followers and clients keep having dreams about HG he even thought about a book “I dreamt about HG” or something like that.
If what you dreamt about HG had the potential to compromise his identity and safety then of course don’t share… (and even if you shared and it had that potential HG just wouldn’t publish it)
I had four dreams by now where they were 100% HG !
I guess I can share at least one.
Once I was dreaming; standing in HG’s shoes when wounding occurred. I experienced the ground breaking away beneath “my” feet in every direction. I experienced how there is no time to do anything about it, to prevent it from happening, because it’s an engulfing sensation…
Before this dream I assumed that the rationale must be capable of intervening and prevent any sensation of wounding from taking place or rather preceding for too long to cause a wound (ignite the fury etc.), after that dream I completely let go of the misunderstanding I had about this topic.
I’m wondering whether dreams are produced primarily by emotional interactions with reality. They’re highly unreasonable. Most people aren’t that interested in dreams unless their own are similarly vivid. My best guess is that dreams have more to do with empathy than other traits.
HG is such a strong presence in my dream life. Because of his work there’s something going on under my conscious awareness that’s beneficial and it’s very deep. He’s a powerful catalyst.
Agree on the strong presence. Doesn’t help that I have two strong associations. Grandpa and an elementary school teacher. Mr. S was a retired marine and classically trained Shakespearean actor. First year I had him was 3rd grade. He’d get in front of the class and boom like on stage. Scared the crap out of kids. Each new year, relieved to be done with him, I’d walk into his English class again through 8th grade. Apparently the school system kept bumping him up a year to older and older kids after parents complained about terrified children.
Wow. Other than the series of mean adolescent girl delayed math problem solutions, I haven’t had dreams that specific. Mine are more surreal and open to multiple interpretations. Maybe that’s why I identify with Precogs. I always have to allow for the possibility of a minority report that is more accurate than mine.
I have had very strong associations between HG and my primary intervener, my paternal grandfather because they’re both unusually intelligent and great storytellers with similar voices. This that grandpa:
Winter ~ Tori Amos
Snow can wait I forgot my mittens
Wipe my nose get my new boots on
I get a little warm in my heart when I think of winter
I put my hands in my father’s glove
I run off where the drifts get deeper
Sleeping Beauty trips me with a frown
I hear a voice you must learn to stand up
For yourself cause I can’t always be around
He says when you gonna make up your mind
When you gonna love you as much as I do
When you gonna make up your mind
‘Cause things are gonna change so fast
All the white horses are still in bed
I tell you that I’ll always want you near
You say that things change my dear
Boys get discovered as winter melts
Flowers come pleading for the sun
Years go by and I’m used to waiting
With a ring wher some snowman was
Mirror mirror where’s the crystal palace
But I can only see myself
Skating around the truth who I am
But I know dad the Ice is getting thin
When you gonna make up your mind
When you gonna love you as much as I do
When you gonna make up your mind
‘Cause things are gonna change so fast
All the white horses are still in bed
I tell you that I’ll always want you near
You say that things change my dear
Hair is gray and the fire is burning
So many dreams on the shelf
You say I wanted you to be proud of me
I always wanted that myself
When you gonna make up your mind
When you gonna love you as much as I do
When you gonna make up your mind
‘Cause things are gonna change so fast
All the white horses have gone ahead
I tell you that I’ll always want you near
You say that things change my dear
Never change
All the white horses
Your grandfather sounds amazing!
He was a very neat guy. Bit of a Da Vinci. Could draw and draft, collected classical music records, developed b&w photos in the basement, stain glass hobbyist, built my first mini picnic table . . .
Mom had 3 of us under 5 by age 24. I was oldest. Nana, Grandpa and Pop (great grandfather) were all great, lived together and regularly took me off mom’s hands for a week or two at a time so mom wasn’t as overwhelmed. Changed when I started school.
Hi Jordy:
On this topic, it’s not surprising people dream of HG. He gets inside your head. My biggest experience was when Contagian meets Darkness. I had an experience dead on and thought HOW does he know how my mind worked then? I literally jumped off my seat. He is truly one of a kind. I sometimes watch others on psychological topics and HG always makes sense. If I can’t see it at first, I usually get information that leads me there. Like I confused classic narcs with his cadre of narcs and HG explained that they can readily overlap but were defined differently. I love he lets us ask him questions. It helps a lot. Also on his other channel, I stated I often confuse narcs with psychopaths when there is a murder especially a serial murder like Lucy letby. I guessed a psychopath who played God and was sadistic. I also don’t get antisocial from sociopath and psychopath because the DSM has its own definition and ISM too and everyone else does it differently. I look forward to hearing more from
HG on this topic….
I have a creature. Sort of. But its not constrained. I can visit. Haven’t more than a few times. Would rather not. Visiting is like walking through the poppies to Oz. I usually fall asleep before I get there. It does feel like a malevolent black hole. And it could bury me alive with it if I’m not respectful.
Hi Niffty:
I have no idea what you mean by a Creature? So curious? Please elaborate. Narcs have one as when introduced to unstable or abusive situations, they create a facade. A false self that seeks fuel to survive. So I am curious my fellow contagion empath ( with different cadres) what you mean? I don’t have a creature but inside deep is a human with immense , unbreakable, unyielding Faith. I am propelled internally by it. It matters the most or equal to me children. My son calls it a true believer. I have no amnesia. The opposite. I have memories going back to two or three. My ex narc hated my near perfect memory. It helps with my career but I imagine annoying for others. Why do you think you have amnesia or a creature? Hope I am not prying too much. Just ignore me if I am:)
Not sure what I mean either. That’s why I asked HG a lot of questions about his Creature. Best I can tell its a sort of archaic titan. Its always been there but I just always ignored it. Its been a reoccurring dream as long as I can remember. Something dark drawing me closer and closer. Only the last few years since the first audience and subsequent visits. It just slowly cut off avenues of avoidance until I had to go meet the damn thing. It doesn’t talk. Just wants me to acknowledge it.
Wow! Your creature sounds like my crazy dreams. No idea the origin. Most scientists know little about the brain…you should do a consult with HG about the creature. He has written about his and there’s a video in the knowledge vault. I bet you would enjoy the consult! I have done 3, worth it!
Hey HG:
I am going to go off topic but it might help others. I am in a UK divorce process, although an American. I was married 10 years. Together 12. We got the conditional divorce a few days ago. I separated 6 years ago with your help, got a legal separation agreement. When he lost his mind in 2023 with a fight with his mother another narc in 2023, he became delusional and called up some of my clients accusing them of having affairs with me and telling them they were breaking international law as he owned my married name and it was a trademark. All called me concerned with my welfare as he sounded so mad. He called my family, my son has trouble with his accent but said he screamed for 5 minutes like a typical lunatic psycho. He called co workers. He called my ex husband. I was having “sex with everyone. “ Of course there were death threats made to me, threats of private videos being released, but because of his threats to killing police in his mothers house in 2023 he was nearly sanctioned and put in a mental ward and instead he was placed in a homeless shelter and under regular psychiatric care. Doctors and police called me. Police offered their support and protection a month or so ago and I did not get involved or call back. Instead I insisted on a divorce that included no financial support ( he has not signed a clean break order that my attorney suggested… may consult you on that) and because I threatened to sue him in California over his actions, he finally agreed to the divorce and a walk away. Done. But for anyone that reads, it never ends. He accused his best friend, a minister, married, I met once of wanting to marry me. He called his family so I got calls from the upset minister who has a 25 year friendship with him arising out of BBC cricket commentary and had to help this poor man. On the day of the filing I get a call from an unknown number from Birmingham from some new friend of his saying my ex wants to move back here and is mentally confused. Shut that down , blocked him. Now, he has somehow set up a subscription in my maiden name which I can’t delete as I don’t have the password to my business account where he send me love songs. I admit ( bad) I saw one and he sings about seeing me, feeling me and how he knows I still love him. I just wonder if once the divorce ends if it will stop. He told me he made police reports against me and if I ever travel, especially the UK, I will be arrested. I checked with police to see if false reports were made, there are none. Will this ever end? I thought once this process ends the past, present and future is erased. Doctors, police have no basis to contact me as not a wife. But it takes a long time to sever ties in UK. Ugh! I know I should consult but so sick of this….just hoping it dies once the divorce is final:(
I know I have amnesia. Years ago ‘recovered memories’ were all the rage, at least in California. Blew my mind. If your brain has the good sense to black out certain events why fuck around with that?! I presume it knows what its doing. I know the jist of it. Recall the start and end of at least one thread. I always preferred to deal with the fallout rather than obsess over the particulars.
Kaboom chickaboom, Niffty! This was my assessment of you as well: Magnet and Geyser in equal proportion and either Carrier or Martyr. And Contagion on top of either Standard or possibly Super, no Codependent.
What do you mean here:
“Wouldn’t it be neat if we could reverse the magnetic polarities on command.”
“I often think I’m imagining things.”
“I’ve never encountered an alien. I have sort of met ‘inner children’ and start to interact from a similar vantage point, usually in dreams.”
I’m most curious!!
Some of the Tudorites are into dreaming..!…HG doesn’t dream, but I’m certain he just doesn’t remember his dreams because he dreams in farther regions. To collect one’s memory upon awakening is more difficult the farther in dreams you go…
HG wrote in an article: “I always wake before you. This allows me to slip into the en suite and lock the door and deal with the horror of confronting another day without you seeing me endure this daily ritual……The inner dread rises as I contemplate another day at the grindstone trying to piece together what I am…..”
Apparently the more flexible one is, the farther regions in dreaming one can enter, the more difficult to piece together what one is, upon awakening…
Do you experience difficulty with recollecting your dreams or reality, Niffty?
And have you encountered HG in your dreams already?
Here you wrote: “It may be hard for all of us to learn to distinguish between what originates with us from what belongs to others when your feels most things internally that split second before your brain can even name them.”
Actually it’s a typical Contagion thing, other schools don’t have it like this… as they explained elsewhere where we had conversations about this.
And elsewhere you asked if Creature is something empaths also have? In Contagion’s case it’s rather how Contagions can experience; making the Creature or all sorts of energies, or emotional states of others — part of them without distinguishing. They empathise too much with all that walks this earth or the ether… standing in other’s shoes by design whether they want it or not, just as you described… And it has its downsides and upsides, right?
1. Reverse magnetic polarities to repel rather than attract primarily princes charming, winged mentors and dissatisfied customers.
2. ‘Trust your gut’ from the start seems to me like believing your horoscope. I think I must be imagining character traits since I don’t know the person. Of course now balancing that against ‘what are you willing to risk to let them prove your initial assessment reasonably accurate.’
With strong feelings it can be more confusing. Sometimes not clear whether its a confluence of events or frustrations I’ve been blowing pass or coming from someone close. But someone close must be all in my imagination, right? Not always right. Hard to believe that.
3. Narcissists are often described as some sort of supernatural malevolent force or black hole. Hence alien. Not human. I’ve never encountered an alien. Just humans, some more open to company or understanding than others. I can’t see black and white delineation btwn good or bad people. We’re all capable of good and evil to varying degrees and depending on the circumstances. And
I dream infrequently, or possibly recall dreams infrequently. On rare occasions I only recall even vivid dreams for about 15 minutes after waking. But dreams can demand attention if I’m ignoring or avoiding something. Then they’ll just show up more forcefully until I make the adjustments demanded. Generally they’re letting me know my assessments have veered too far from what is actually going on.
I have encountered children emotionally or metaphorically. If introduced in dreams, its generally me around 7 or 8 meeting another child living alone in the woods, usually knowing which adult it is in my life. Most have been around my age or alittle older in the dreams. A few have been younger ones who immediately grab my hand in need of a big sister.
The most terrifying, not at all in the dreams but only upon awakening, were feral and wary. Sizing me up and tolerating me. Only mildly curious but careful to keep turning their back on me.
There’s just never any adults around and most these kids would bolt if a grown-up appeared anyway. Sucks once you consciously see the kids more than the adults over time because you can’t abandon kids or just leave them where you find them. Distressing dreams follow when I go back and can’t find anyone. I played and hid outside a lot growing up, so just cracked it up to an overactive imagination for a long time.
One of the more recent startling dreams I can remember concerned a seemingly nice guy I was dating for about six months. Its obvious now it was the start of devaluation and/or shelving, but I wasn’t familiar with the concepts fully at the time and didn’t anticipate the change on the horizon.
It was a simple, short dream. The nice boy answered the front door of the house I grew up in, gave me a contemptuous look and shut the door in my face. Stunned, I just turned around and ran off to play outside until the sun set, in keeping with mom’s rules at the time. The only emotion associated was annoyed confusion. That wasn’t my parents or brothers, so what the hell was he doing in my house and who said he could answer our door?! Just a vivid imagination. Later I realized it was precisely right.
1. Got it!
2. I understand what you mean… Listening to the gut and strong feelings is something which has proven to be correct on so many occasions, after I did exactly the opposite (arrrg you should have listened to your gut/feeling).
3. Nothing against aliens though, who says there are no aliens who are narcissists? I guess mimicry must be a universal thing if we’re not alone in the universe? If they’d look just like us, who knows maybe you’ve encountered one ? And if they don’t look like us I guess they still would call themselves humans anyway, just in their own language… Superior humans, or equal humans, depends on their spectrum…
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Thank you very much for sharing about your dreams!!! It’s very interesting how you go about them and make adjustments! Dreams prove to be the source of guidance and help for you since you were little!
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You wrote you have a Creature, what is it made of??
Something like the smoke in Lost. Dark, dense black and towering over me. Lives in a cave in a private cove I dream about once in a while. The place is calm, nice to visit but for the thing at the heart of the cave.
And the smoke is generally content to mind its own business when I visit the cove now. It knows I’m there but doesn’t care unless it is able to terrorize. Problem is it has only one emotional setting. Pure fury. Hot and cold. When I say ‘visit’ it directly all that happens is a sort of stand off. Just need to let it know I’m not afraid to go sit near it, get a feel for what its about and let it know the best course of action is to stay put, not to try to push me around when I leave.
You see… many say narcs are children. Interesting that you see the inner child in people in your dreams. I have had some powerful dreams. I had a dream of the murder of my best friend. I shared it before. I won’t elaborate but clicks appeared throughout. 2:17 and when I went to the murder trial, I learned from the LA Coroner that her death was between 2 and 2:30. My son was born prematurely and I dreamed of a romance with old fat Marlon Brando at the beginning of my pregnancy and told many then my son was born 7.5 weeks early on Marlon Brandi’s birthday. I could go on. I have different types but like you… my dreams suggested things about my narc that were true even if consciously I didn’t want to accept it.
Carrier is the only one that really makes sense to me. 1st born, responsible for younger siblings and mom. Cultural upbringing focused on household skills and ’emotional work’ as natural to women. The rest I’m not sure how it came about.
Only half joking about Contagion. Wouldn’t want to get rid of it, but would like to dial it back to 50% or lower. It causes a lot of interference and white noise.
Oh. And my creature demanded an audience. Once.
Do tell….;)
Hello dear Jordy:
My husband is antisocial and I joined this blog in part about dreams. And you know my thing about dreams since I am a constant lucid dreamer and they haunt me. My friends and family listen intently “ if it’s one of those.” My ex had none. No dreams One of my first questions to HG was does he dream? He said “ no.” I found that interesting and researched it. Most higher developed animals dreams such as mammals and birds less evidence for reptiles and amphibians and fish that dream or that it is different. Dolphins are shown to have REM activity even though only half their brain sleeps at a time! All. Psychopaths have the lack of emotional content with dreams as they do with real life. Dreaming is a complex phenomenon, and while scientists don’t fully understand why we dream, several theories attempt to explain its purpose. Here are some of the most prominent ideas: Emotional Regulation: Dreams might assist in processing emotions. Um? Psychopaths? 2. Problem-Solving: Some researchers propose that dreaming allows for creative problem-solving. The brain can make unusual connections between ideas without the constraints of waking logic, potentially leading to innovative solutions. 3. There is research on cognitive development in childhood. 4. Survival Mechanism: Some theories suggest that dreaming might simulate threatening scenarios, allowing individuals to rehearse responses to danger in a safe environment. Psychopaths? 5. Neurological Function: Dreams may reflect the brain’s attempt to make sense of random neural activity. Again, psychopaths brains are different.
I have my own theories based on my personal beliefs and experiences but there is more lacking in the subject of dreams than there is explaining it. I have read on it for decades. I dove into the subject deeper as you know but HG wants a blog about narcs, psychopaths not dreams. BUT I always thought a good tip to see if someone is a psychopath is to ask about his dreams? Lol
Octopus are unusually intelligent as well. Somehow distributed their brains or nervous systems throughout their bodies. Feel with their suckers and can remember individual people for years.
I have read in the National Geographic magazine about Octupuses! Fascinating creatures!
Dreams to problem solve. In 7th and 8th grade I worked hard for As in math, never achieving higher than a B+.
About every other test I’d draw a blank on a formula I knew that I knew. Like clockwork, that night I’d dream of the test problem as written on the exam and the solution typed out on a bright white sheet. Looked like the solution manual. Spent the next morning mad as hell that my brain not only wouldn’t hand over the info when I needed it but then had to be a bitch about it in a dream. Why not just let me think I’d forgotten it instead?!
So interesting. My best theories in law come to me when I dream and books etc… many artists get inspired by dreams. Paul Mc Cartney wrote Let it Be from a dream. Many artists do. Are you an artist?
Not an artist. Jack of all trades, master of none. I get bored too easily, need new problems to solve or skills to learn. Liked nursing but hurt my back and couldn’t keep up physically.
Hi dear! Yes, dolphins are fascinating, REM activity as they’re half awake, that would make them experience two parallel realities at the same time?!
Have you ever encountered HG in your dreams??
Answered the HG dream question somewhere in this thread. Didn’t encounter him like I do children sometimes. Dreamt about him once though. Look for the Lucky Charms.
Precogs were dropped off on what looks similar to Cape Breton Island after Precrime was shut down. Maybe we could crowd found a private island retirement home.
Kkkkkkkkk! I love Minority Report!! Absolutely, let’s crowdfund for a Precog Island and build our nation! Octopus will be our national animal! Wait, the kraken (Spectre) I believe is somehow connected to… a …nevermind! Yes, the kraken it is!
Good Morning Jordy. Can we build small, private treehouses and a large public house with a library?
Just occurred to me that a retirement island with treehouses will require a medical clinic asap.
Threehouses! Deal! And to save money on the medic clinic we simply arrange for Tarzan to be our Minister of Health and keep him busy by falling off the treehouses regularly… We’d need a schedule, who falls when..?
Who should be our Defence Chief? You actually brought up a brilliant idea: the smoke from Lost… the thing you visit now and then in your dream. Connection is already established, begin with negotiations, Nifty! We have a nation to build!
Hah! Not he. It.
Its not going anywhere. And its not defending anything other than itself. It couldn’t give a rat’s ass what happens to us or our world. Think of it as King Cockroach. Here long before us and long after we’re gone.
Next suggestion.
Inky/the great escape artist, is good! A yes from me for Inky as our national animal!
Hmmmm I don’t know…. Who would you pick for the defence chief position?
An almighty fantasy character or a real person?
Or maybe not a person but some phenomenon like the Bermuda Triangle or something?
It must defend us and the Precogs not just from real life threats but also from the invisible realm or in our dreams and fantasy?
Nice thing about an empathic leaning retirement community is that it should attract professionals and tradesmen from a wide variety of specialties. I’d hope that we’d collectively hear from good faith professionals in defense, economics, gerontology and the like to present us with reasonable alternatives to select from.
I wouldn’t dream of making such decisions unilaterally.
Not The Kraken. I nominate Inky! The great escape artist.
Apologies for the disjointed conversation. Something off kilter or delayed in app notifications. Any better on a PC if I can
Wondering which article you were referring to Jordy on ‘Waking up before you . . .’ I like the start of it.
Try Walking In My Shoes:
https://narcsite.com/2023/04/18/knowing-the-narcissist-try-walking-in-my-shoes/
Thanks for letting me know. I often think I’m imagining things.
I’ve never encountered an alien. I have sort of met ‘inner children’ and start to interact from a similar vantage point, usually in dreams. I’ve never understood all the woo-woo nonsense around ‘inner child.’ What you meet is a feral human raising themselves alone thank you very much. An impressive feat but dangerous person to be around. They don’t mind me or remain mildly curious so long as I am another child. Part of accruring evidence is to find out whether the children start to show up more and more as the adult fades. Once they make their appearance I know its over. Tried to not know that for years though.
Hmm–Honesty Gauntlet.
Reading this I realized there’s something I do when I start making one or more of those statements. I try to ignore the pit of my stomach. When that special person shows me who they truly are in all his or her narc glory the emotional thinking kicks in, but in the microsecond before that my abdomen tenses up completely. I try to push the feeling down. That cold, intense, churning, this-is-wrong feeling. I was trained early to pretend it wasn’t even there. For years I got so good at that my awareness could split off completely from it, but that doesn’t happen anymore. Now I feel it in the moment that the unacceptable behavior occurs and I’m no longer saved the awareness of the choice I’m making should I continue with that person. No more slumber. It’s tough and it’s uncomfortable, but it’s good.
It’s good to be more awake now and able to address my needs.
I never understood before this work that there are people who don’t need my help–they don’t want it, they will pervert it, they can’t respond with human-ness. Actually, maybe it’s that I don’t need to provide my help. I don’t have to do anything automatically, especially if someone gives me signs they’re predatory. And it’s true that I can’t change; I’m naive, but I do have this persistent habit of hope and looking for the good and all that. I feel for people even if I don’t know them just because they’re human beings. Maybe that is something good about me, and it’s good despite those who would use it against me.
I’m learning it isn’t wise to just bleed empathy all over the place. Especially with such creatures around.
Thank you so much for sharing, Alison. This was very beautifully stated. I needed to read some of those things.
Thank you, Dani. I’m glad you found something useful in it.
Everybody needs to make mistakes to learn. I have no way of knowing what they need or how they process experiences so I can only aid from the sidelines. Its hardest to know if or when to intervene with children, because of course they need training wheels for a while. I think my daughter was about 10 when her therapist told her ‘you know you don’t have to tell your mother everything.’ She was thrilled. The therapist was right but I still wasn’t quite ready for that. You just need to let trust build over time so the keepers and kids know they can turn to you when necessary.
As to bleeding empathy. I have the opposite problem and I am curious as to whether other people here do as well. I experience empathy primarily as too much getting in whether I want it or not. It’s unnerving. Especially in busy environments like a job where you’re interacting with coworkers/acquaintances and the public. It’s like constantly pinging off everyone within a certain radius to maintain an emotional read and track upset, angry or vaguely problematic people while relaxing reconossaince on the blithely unaware ones. Even good days are exhausting. I need a dim, private place and zero interaction with people for an hour two after a crowded workday and avoid crowds socially. If there was a way to turn the radar on and off I would. It seems to be always on.
Niffty, what you describe here: “too much getting in whether I want it or not…It seems to be always on.”
It has to do with your empath school which obviously contains some Contagion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT9wojDwmnE
And what you describe here: “And I tend to attract oversharers and have trouble disengaging.”
Has to do with your empath cadre which obviously contains Magnet.
Wouldn’t it be neat if we could reverse the magnetic polarities on command.
Hi Niffty: That place is called nature. Some meditate. But many contagions find sanctuary in nature. I do.
And like piles in a magnetic field repel each other in science ie south poles or north poles BUT there are very successful empath-empath or normal and normal relationships. It’s that pull to narcs, we must be wary of… HG helps with that through his education! And I agree with you on that Niffty!
71% Contagion. Haven’t done the trait assessment yet.
Hello fellow contagion! So excited to have you here!
I’d seen this but haven’t thought about the cadres as much yet. In part because I split roughly in thirds btwn magnet, carrier and geyser. Guessed that meant better balanced. May have been wrong.
Pairing excessive contagion with a standard magnet is unnecessarily rude. Like cubicles. What mook thought more work would get done under The Big Top? I’m not convinced it wasn’t just to save on construction costs, building pint size modular ‘walls.’ And doorless spaces are the stuff of nightmares.
Thanks for the tip. I’ll see if I can figure out a seating chart for these clowns.
Yes, I was majority contagion and standard was the rest as I recall I didn’t write it down the percent but contagion was high. I don’t see auras. HG says those with high majority contagion do. So curious, do you? I had martyr majority by 1% difference with carrier and small percents super and geyser. No magnet and I think that magnets are very very cool! Do you relate with your results? I didn’t instantly with contagion but I remain on the fence of martyr but carrier is another YUP less so with super and geyser. I think it must be unique situations. Does the findings help? It did me but I wonder the origins. Only Co-D has HG really explain.
The findings help like a diagnosis does. Now I can stop wondering what, if anything, is wrong and just learn more to manage. Don’t see auras. Don’t see well at all though. Always been terribly near sighted.
I understand how it feels to be bombarded by the emotional subtexts going on all around. I think one reason I’m drawn to narcissists is because they’re so unusual in those terms. I think my gut senses that something is off, but it can be out of sync with what I think I’m seeing with my eyes or what I’m hearing. I think that puzzle stops me in my tracks, when isn’t good if a locomotive is bearing down on me.
For example, I think fury is a hard one for me to process in the moment I’m faced with it. Depending on the type of narcissist, I can read the rictus grin as an actual one and criticism as a compliment if the facade is good enough, while my insides are going to pieces. That’s when I probably come up with the excuses; number 3 is a specialty of mine. In my heart I really just want them to be honest with me, be real, because I know something is false and that makes me feel sad for them. And I can’t quite believe that there isn’t anything real there, because I’m seeing a human being in front of me. But am I? So it really throws me off. It doesn’t make sense to me, but it makes sense to the narcissist because the narcissism says so. Something like that. That fascinates me. It’s a truly alien encounter.
I just watched HG’s excellent video on TOW that analyzed her recent appearance in Germany, and I realized I’ve seen that expression many times. I’m in the camp that it was fury and not drugs. And that expression–the empty blackness of the eyes, the clenched jaw, the straining, all surrounding bared teeth in an apparent smile–seeing it in a single shot really helped. I realized it was all so familiar, and that when I’m on the receiving end of it I know it, but I reframe it to my detriment. And I ignore my gut and make the excuses. Somehow, I have to make it okay, I have to make what’s wrong into right. Now that I see the pattern I can work on it.
Like you, my empathy also requires that I take lots of down time as well. I visualize myself as having a very permeable membrane, so my empathy can tend to seep out a lot and also things tend to get in easily. It makes me very vulnerable to being controlled by a narcissist because it can be easy to extract fuel from me as well as to apply manipulation and have it really soak in without much effort on their part. If I don’t manage myself well it can be a mess for me and a banquet for them. There really is something primal about all of it.
It may be hard for all of us to learn to distinguish between what originates with us from what belongs to others when your feels most things internally that split second before your brain can even name them
Primal indeed. Maybe that’s why many of us prefer one-on-one or small group interactions. Larger collections of people present a problem.
You know how when the dentist’s drill hits a tooth and every bone in your body vibrates like an electrified cartoon right on out through any and all your hair. That’s a boisterous environment. Similar to high frequencies. In the extreme my hearing involuntarily muffls and my eyes, never good, blur or close while I’m ‘listening.’ Incongruous given it seems like paying more attention while about to pass out on the spot. Knew it wasn’t really a classic panic attack but good luck explaining that to clinicians without promting more frantic note taking.
I was blessed with a very accommodating brother growing up. JAWS wrecked us both as kids but he outgrew it. I cannot listen to people begging for their lives. Hearing it is way too much. He knows I can’t do torture scenes at all no matter how well done the rest of the movie. He talked me into watching one that turned out to be genuinely hysterical but I still squirmed. Read a journalist’s account of the drug trade years ago until he started started describing ‘bone tickling.’ Oh HELL No! I was blessed with a very accommodating brother growing up. Natural disasters in the news are muted.
Found it! ‘It may be hard . . .’ Wondered where that thought got off to. Don’t remember what the point was. Sorry.
And that one escaped twice. Good thing the week is over.
Hi Niffty: 1. when someone is sick, do you feel sick? 2. Does your mood change by being around others? There are neuroscience studies on contagion empaths such as the mirror neuron system, and others on high emotional intelligence, agreeableness and openness. Are you open? 3. In general parts of the brain such as the anterior insula and anterior cigulate cortex ( oops cingulate) are activated when people show empathy. So it’s brain wired and 4. Finally, having strong social support systems in life help develop empathy. I think that one is obvious. For me, I just know what another is feeling and try to respond accordingly. An example, a neighbor I barely knew who is Swedish and reserved came up to me last year and calmly said “ something bad happened to me today.” I said “ what? “ Yet I could see way past her calm , reserved manner that it was BAD. She said her 33 year old son had died. ( Suicide) And I burst into tears. I hugged her, and she broke down. She held onto me like a life preserver. She is so disciplined. Not one ounce of fat and very matter of fact. But her pain went through me and it took awhile to not feel so sad. I rushed to the flower store and grocery store and left her presents and I did for a year. You are not alone I said. I never discussed details as we became friends and I felt if she wanted to talk she would but she took the book I gave her by Pema Chodron to the funeral in Sweden. This is not normal for me…. I pick up on what others are feeling but I don’t absorb it usually but some empaths do. Maybe you? But general states of emotion, collective, or a general overall energy can cause me to retreat to my solace, nature. The ocean. Do you have a place?
Primal indeed. Maybe that’s why many of us prefer one-on-one or small group interactions. Larger collections of people present a problem.
You know how when the dentist’s drill hits a tooth and every bone in your body vibrates like an electrified cartoon right on out through any and all your hair. That’s a boisterous environment. It vibrates similar to high frequencies. In the extreme my hearing involuntarily muffles and my eyes, never good, blur or close while I’m ‘listening.’ Incongruous given its like paying more attention while about to pass out on the spot. Knew it wasn’t really a classic panic attack but good luck explaining that to clinicians without prompting more frantic note taking.
Growing up I was blessed with a very accommodating brother. JAWS wrecked us both as kids but he outgrew it. For me its the sound more than the imagery that is horrifying. I cannot listen to people begging for their lives. I can’t do torture scenes at all no matter how well done the rest of the movie. He talked me into watching one that turned out to be genuinely hysterical but I still squirmed (Amateur 1994). I read a journalist’s account of the drug trade years ago until hitting a description of ‘bone tickling.’ Oh HELL No! Instances like that I could hand my brother the book to flip through pages then hand it back where I could pick up. Now I speed scan text with one eye closed instead. My ex thought reading was sometimes giving me headaches and I left it at that.
Anyhow,
Have a great weekend everyone
🙂
Hi Nifty:
For me, I just know what others are feeling and how am an intense lucid dreamer. I can go to a grocery store and pick up on emotions of strangers. It helps in my profession. I surround myself with nature, music, books, and art and love. I paint. I write children books. I have dogs. Right now, 7! I have puppies. Actually my dogs can stress me some as I feel their energies My sanctuary is definitely the ocean and nature. I look at the ocean daily. I live surrounded by nature parks. I walk daily. Children come over daily- I always attract animals and children. They both give me solace. With narcs, the ones with pseudo humility, I know something is off but in the past I pushed it aside. All the romance and sex too- I pushed my instinct aside. No more! Thanks HG! I don’t know if that helps with what you asked. What do you do to refresh?
Wooded walks. Quiet (no phones, podcasts tv or music). And read read read. Trying to set up a designated writing spot because writing helps as well unless it veers into upsetting territory.
And I tend to attract oversharers and have trouble disengaging. But I believe that’s more common for all empaths.
In my experience, a weird split happens initially. Its a tremendous headache for at least a few months. Containing emotional thinking is futile, like herding cats. Bag them up and they go more nuts while the logical thinking talks, texting minimally. A bit surreal. I guess its a sort of purgatory, waiting in the station for the train departing fantasy land.