Two Bites of the Cherry


Image result for image two bites of the cherry



I discarded you. You failed me and you had to go. You had no idea of course that this was the case. You tried to see me, speak to me, plead with me and you were rebuffed and told to stay away. The teeth were bared at you and you saw that look in the eye, the one that still unnerves you and you backed away. You slid into misery and confusion, unable to comprehend why I flung you to one side, why I wouldn’t at least do you the decency of explaining. You do not realise that our kind are never beholden to the obligation to explain. We are above that. You however operate by differing standards and regard it as a common courtesy to explain why something has been done and it certainly applies when the situation is one of romantic entanglement. You believed that you are owed an explanation. We operate from the position that we owe you nothing because once upon a time we gave you everything.

I have the new primary source of fuel of course. She was from a shortlist of individuals who were being cultivated as I embarked on my cruel devaluation of you. When I slipped away to my bolthole, when I made repeated excuses to go to the bar when we went away on holiday, when your back was turned I was extending my electronic tendrils as I engaged with these prospects. The fuel flowed from them as they readily connected with someone as charming as I. How could they not? A couple of these prospects have been kept in reserve, contingencies as they became outer circle friends who will wait in the wings, suitably brainwashed and conditioned so that they will jump at the chance of being promoted to the primary source at some future point. I know as well that they will not hesitate to hand me the dagger which I will plunge in that primary source’s back at some future point. There is no sisterhood here in the battle to win my affections and favour. Thus two find themselves admitted to the chain of fuel providing appliances and like two growing plants, I occasionally tend to them, cultivating and maintaining their interest, keeping alive the hope of promotion. It is reassuring to know that if the one who eventually saw off the others on the shortlist has to be discarded then there are ready and waiting appliances who can be plugged in without much more effort. It is not always possible to find those appliances which will wait around but it is far from impossible. You may be surprised at the number which will readily accept a role as an outer or even inner circle friend, possibly an acquaintance too in the right circumstances. Content to have intermittent contact with me in person. Happy to have more frequent contact through electronic medium. These reservists will smile at the primary source, appear to even be friendly but they are only doing it to maintain my favour. If I give the signal they would rip the throat from the primary source in order to replace her. That is what we bring out in people.

Still, those are the reservists but for now an excellent primary source was chosen and thus you were surplus to requirements. You heard no more from me as a wall of silence greeted your attempts to contact me. Your position as primary source came to an end. You were made redundant and you were cast aside. I drew fuel from imagining your distress at this state of affairs and your repeated attempts to contact me provided similar fuel until I decided that I wanted to concentrate on the new primary source and therefore you needed to stay away. Thus, as I mentioned, the teeth were bared, you were warned and for once you listened and backed off.

Life has been sweet with the wonderful, new and shiny primary source who has lived up to expectations in her admiration, adoration and love. All is well and I cannot say that I have really given you any further thought since I made it clear that you were to “stay the hell away from me, understand?” I have been drinking deep from the new, potent fountain and enjoying all of this fresh, succulent fuel. So much so, I soon moved her in and why not? I may as well ensure that such a precious source of fuel is on tap.

Then one day I was moving some things around in the study and I found a book which belonged to you. I picked it up and you flared in my mind. I know that if it was the other way around, you would have been consumed by emotion as you triggered this ever presence. That does not happen with me. There is no charge of emotion but instead there is the spark of opportunity. The appearance of this book has caused you to enter into my sphere of influence. You did nothing did you? No telephone call, no text message, no driving past my house, all of the usual things which victims do in the aftermath and which will invariably result in a hoover. The appearance of this book has thrust you into my mind again. I have plenty of fuel from the wonderful primary source but a dash of hoover fuel would be welcome also. I feel no need to re-engage you as my primary source, your replacement is functioning well, but I am fuelled, powerful and I want to taste your hoover fuel. You have entered the sixth sphere of influence and caused a Hoover Trigger.

Moments such as these are delicious indeed. I have taken a bite of the succulent cherry that is the new primary source but here I am with a delightful opportunity to take a bite of another cherry and apply a hoover to you. What I especially like about it is the fact that because I do not want to or need to rekindle our intimate relationship again, the effort required will be minimal in order to get a taste of your hoover fuel. I pull out my ‘phone and look up your number. I kept it of course. I felt no need to block it. You rang and you rang but I never answered and eventually you gave up. I wonder for a moment whether you have blocked me and feel a twinge of irritation if that proves to be the case. Nevertheless, I have the energy and inclination to want to hoover you,, I perceive that there is a good prospect of gaining fuel from you, I have no reason to think that your fuel will be diminished, I have considered whether there may be obstacles but do not regard there as being any which would mean the attempt is likely to fail and I have not got any perception that you will reject me and thus criticise me and cause wounding. The Hoover Execution Criteria have been met and I have surpassed the bar, it is thus time to hoover you.

I jab your name and smile as I hear the ringing noise and within just two rings (two rings! Someone remains keen!) you answer. Your voice is tentative.

“Hello? HG?”

“Hi Tabitha, how are you?”

There is a pause. You are trying to work out what is going on but I know you will want to talk to me. You answered didn’t you? You spoke. You want some answers. You need to know. I have seen it so many times before and therefore I know that no matter how much you may think that you need to end the call before it gets going you will not do so. I know that the emotion is surging through you, hope, expectation and no doubt the glowing embers of the love that has not yet been extinguished for me.

“What do you want?” you ask but it is not said in a hostile tone.

“I was just thinking about you and I thought I would give you a call and see how you were doing.”

“I don’t understand. Why call me now when you made it clear you didn’t want anything to do with me?” Ah, a bit of a fightback from logic here. Fair enough.

“I know, I know, that was some time ago, I was in a bad place, a lot going on and something had to give. I know I didn’t handle it well, I am sorry.”

Like hell I am but I know those three words will have a magical effect. I stop speaking. I can picture you trying to hold back the tears, fighting with the competing emotions that are washing over you. I can feel the power rising inside of me at this image as I gather the fuel.

“You hurt me, you really hurt me,” you say voice cracking slightly.

“I know, I know and I am truly sorry, I know you must hate me, listen if it is any consolation to you, I hate myself for what I did to you, you didn’t deserve to be treated like that.” That should hit the spot. A bit of self-flagellation always goes down well.

“Well you won’t hate yourself as much as I hate you,” you answer with a little steel in your voice. It’s good. It is all fuel.

“Trust me Tabs,” oh yes the shortened name for added familiarity needs to be used here, “I know just what I did and I am not proud of myself. I just felt it was only right that I call you in order to explain…”

I hit the end call button after saying this.

Five seconds. She will call back in five seconds.

Sure enough her name appears on the ‘phone as she returns the call.

“Hi,” I say enthusiastically.

“You went off.”

“Yes poor signal I guess.”

There is another pause. I say nothing allowing the silence to be used to compel you to speak. I know that you want to talk. It was always likely and your behaviour so far is laden with indicators that you want to continue to talk.

“You said you wanted to explain,” you say and I hear the hope in your voice and the fuel drips from you once again.

I know that I can dangle the prospect of answers in front of you for weeks now. I don’t want you back. I do not need you back but I have tasted your delicious hoover fuel and I like it. I have managed to cause you to speak to me and then call me back after everything that I did to you, including my callous discard. That highlights the power I have and that is why when remembering you through seeing the book it was too good an opportunity to miss and I applied a benign hoover. Not to win you back, but to get you to respond and to provide me with fuel. And it has worked.

I lick my lips before I speak.

This cherry is mighty sweet.

102 thoughts on “Two Bites of the Cherry

  1. The convalescent codependent says:

    I knew to escape was to create reason to discard me. He would never leave me, and he would never let me leave. I had to go along with one of his games in the sexual arena that had been toyed with, pushed and pulled for years. I always knew if I went along I would be knocked down to a whore, I knew I would endure being called frigid and boring if I did not, however I choose that for I knew once I crossed the line with him he would use it against me. In the end I knew this was the only way out, unfortunately I also knew it would cause self hatred, but I guess I also knew I could forgive myself. After the final act/s had taken place, he expected to devalue me, and I to become depressed and weak and need him to save and control me even more. Instead I said I didn’t deserve him anymore, even if he could forgive me I could not forgive myself. I then created boundaries and said we needed to take care of other responsibilities and our intimate relationship would need to be platonic until we straightened out our lives. He became restless quickly and moved in with a friend under the idea it would be for 2 weeks and a trial separation. I knew all along it was not trial, though I did manipulate this well and would never admit this to him later, but he knew he just couldn’t get me to say it. I knew once he left I had THE reason to never let him in again, BECAUSE HE LEFT. He thought he could easily come back, he underestimated me, from the day he walked out that door to 2 years and 3 months later he has never been through my door again. I used his words on him, “I don’t deserve you, how could you ever trust me again, I’m unhealthy I need to work on myself etc.” He tried to convince me otherwise …it didn’t take long for his true colors to shine through and I could see what he had done to me for so long, and now see it from outside eyes. He did get many successful emotional hoovers from texts and emails, thankfully with your help, I have become better and better at remaining neutral indifferent, and our interactions are hardly emotionally charged. I do have to allow contact from time to time due to children. Okay maybe I don’t, I guess I just don’t care I know he is looking for attention when he contacts me, I know he will gain so much fuel to conquer me again, and he will never stop trying so it is what it is, it is better than causing him to rage, he seems satisfied if he gets a little attention back from me, he’s got plenty of others to gather greater fuel from, so I keep things at bay, for his storms are devastating and it is my children I must protect.

    Thoughts HG?
    Anyone? Just curious ..I know I took a risk and it was scary at the time, but I look back and I think …that was pretty smart of me.

  2. Soldmyselfshort says:

    Thanks Miss_stress for your message posted @12:01. Your profile name is the label I wanted for myself but you beat me to it. ;). As for your questions the main reasons I would want revenge is first for my own integrity. I’ve gone through hell and back and still paying for it. Secondly to make him pay the consequences for hurting and manipulating my life as well as others.. And lastly to give his wife a chance with the truth. Doesn’t the saying go, “the truth will set you free”? And now that I’m no longer under his spell it feels like such a burden to carry his luggage of lies for free, and watch him get away with it especially right under his wife’s nose….Meaning he’s now back with the same woman he first triangulated me with 5 years ago (his wife’s girlfriend). They have suppers, BBQs together with the kids too. If I were his wife I would want to know what a monster he really is….how horrible to be serving drinks and sharing laughs with her very own girlfriend who’s f$&@ing her husband. I know this is his wife’s battle, but it angers me so hard watching this go down. Just a month ago his wife’s girlfriend (which is his mistress again for the 2nd time) recently posted a pic on her FB profile sitting next to his wife laughing and cheering at a restaurant pretty close to where I live. So yeah it’s sick and especially unfair for his wife cause shes a good soul and doesn’t deserve this double deception. I have also thought about going through another person from the wife’s own circle, like sending an anonymous email, but that will not guarantee they will intervene either. So I can’t decide whether to let his wife know about her husband’s 5 year on and off history with her girlfriend, or about his 10 year affair (actually more like 12 years on and off) history with me. I don’t know his wife personally, although when I was involved with my N he tried to convince me to get in his circle of friends. But there was no way in hell I could ever be so manipulative and fake a friendship with his wife. That’s too evil in my books. Nevertheless he managed to get his way 5 years later not with me but with his wife’s girlfriend instead. She had become his new supply and not long after he devalued and discarded me. And then of course 2 years later when he got bored with her, he hoovered me back in for an additional 5 years. There are days when I push myself so hard to letting go and moving on with my life. I get a couple of good days and just when I believe I can do this, I’m back feeling a whole week of agony. Rotating back and fourth. Ive been so messed up by this. I’m new @ HGs blog hopefully I’ll reach some peace and more answers. If I do blow the whistle on him, I fear and know they will be consequences. To the point that Im thinking about making a police report incase something were to happen to me. At the same token I don’t want my fear to be the deciding factor . I don’t know what he’s capable of. Obviously he’s sociopath, if he loses everything, it could go bad. Everyday is a battle. So much at stake. I’m damned if I do, I’m damned if I don’t. So much to think about still. I’m not afraid for my life …I just don’t want my family or friends to get hurt. Thank you ladies and especially HG for your insights. God Bless 🙏

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome. Your responses are entirely understandable and exactly what we would want you to feel because you are allowing your response to be governed by emotion. It is similar to the Emperor in Star Wars encouraging Luke Skywalker to give in to the hatred, because the Emperor knows that will take ihm over the threshold, he will lose control and join the dark side. We want you to remain wallowing in emotion because you will then give us fuel and make bad decisions. We are like a totalitarian regime because we want you to be governed by fear and you clearly recognise in what you have written that this is a factor which is weighing on you.

  3. Lisa says:

    HG, if I was to get a Hoover , what is the thing that would annoy him the most ? Because it seems that any response is a win and seen as emotional attention . What if you ignore , just completely ignore any attempts ? Would that annoy him ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Either ensure he has no way of contacting you or if that is not possible then do not respond to the hoover. At first he will rely on how he believes you will react in order to draw fuel, but he will keep trying in order to witness a reaction and if that is nor forthcoming this will irritate him and cause him to turn to other sources for fuel.

  4. How apt that I was eating cherries myself as I read this. They are one of my favourite fruits.

    I met a friend while at the cottage this weekend. She is a psychiatrist. I told her all about you, showed her the blog and your books.

    She was far from surprised at my admiration of you and she was absolutely fascinated by your writings.

    She would like to contact you as she wants to pick your brain about developing a program of sorts to help “victims” of your kind. She said it is incredibly rare to find one of your kind so willing and able to speak about how and why a narcissist does what he or she does.

    She mentioned perhaps you could develop or organize something whereby you could by an instructor or educator. I don’t know – I passed your email along to her and she will be in touch.

    It sounds brilliant and it’s definitely a role I could see you in. Your work deserves as much praise, attention and adulation as possible.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you B&T that sounds most interesting, I shall await the e-mail. I do like cottages, I shall be heading to one myself at the end of this week and with it pastures new which should prove interesting. Do you go to your cottage often? Is it far from where you live?

      1. Well you deserve it HG. I will be implicated somehow or so she says. She enjoys using me as a case study for my kind but is quick to tell people that I am virtually incorrigible. Ha ha!!

        I love my cottage and spend as much time as possible there in summer and winter. It is in a region called Muskoka where cottages are more like homes and is a decent drive but worth it. Pristine lakes, wonderful markets with fresh organic produce and plenty of exclusive little shops. And, as you so wonderfully pointed out, a brilliant change of landscape abound with plenty of interesting opportunities.

        You certainly deserve a break, HG. You’re going to be a busy man, love, you need to take care of yourself and that most brilliant mind of yours.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Sounds delightful. I shall be interested to learn how you are implicated.

          1. I really don’t think I need to be. This is your time to shine, love. You have so much to teach and to offer.

            I’m quite happy, in this rare instance, to be the sexy cheerleader sitting in the front row.

        2. nikitalondon says:

          Must be an incredible beautiful are BT.
          I thought you lived in the Quebec prov. like I did once.
          I did in fact go for work alot to Whitby and I regret not having taken a day or so of vacations to take a drive to that area. I googled it 😃.
          Enjoy your cottage.

  5. nikitalondon says:

    Cody response is very good. It is infact yes very complex with an N to be able to say one woman is backstabbing the other one. Now that I rember N2 did have a girlfriend when I started dating him and some months later I learned that he had devalued and discarded her ( i know this process from the blog now) and continued with me.
    I dont feel I backstabbed this woman as I had no clue what was happening, i did not even remember the story but now that I read again…
    I did not leave him when I learned this.. I dont know if she was still suffering from it ( i assume by my learnings and the stories of his kids she way also an N) but I still dont think I backstabbed her because I took the ” prize”.. I would say I rather backstabbed myself for not leaving on time 😂😂😂.
    There was a month or so that she was still with her and dating me.. Taking me to dinner etc 😡😡.
    He is still in the eyes of some family memeber an angel and the best opportunity I have wasted 😱😱😱😂😂😂. It makes me laugh internally when they say that and I saw all the machinations he did to earn this this tittle.

    1. Cody says:

      Hi Nikita. I don’t think anyone would call you a backstabber. Except for two people: one is the woman you unknowingly “replaced”, and the other is the person who actually did the replacing but surely gave you (when explaining to the replaced woman) all the credit. 🙁
      But you know that this is all how it works with a narc.

  6. Clary says:

    I’m basically exploding and reacting behind his back if I decide to which is clever because he dies t know because if no contact so by no answering he’s going crazy wondering what I’m feeling Duce this is usually something I would grab my phone and send him to hell one way or another HAHAHAAAAAA bout I’m a master of disguise for this and no reaction us what I’m trained for so I can easily resist telling him succeed I’ve already told him all I’ve need to I’m just waiting for life’s justice and ve fan e now that’s my cherry flavor dear

    1. Clary says:

      Life vengeance I meant to say

  7. Clary says:

    I reach I just don’t let him know that’s the key because we don’t live together thank did and he has no access or hey to my home nor knows someone too close to me to have engagement in entering my residence YESSSS IM SO SMART

  8. Miss_stress says:

    Yes Cody, thank you so much for your reply to my question. Every time someone replies to me, there is never a reply button for me tore okay back… weird.

    Yes, what you say is indeed true. I was thinking when I wrote that. Of the two appliances he has utilized since me. one who knew we were together, and that he told me were jealous of me, one In particular, that he swore he had no contact with. That is more hurtful, along with mutual friends telling me things after the fact, when no one told me anything while we were together for four years. Even if I didn’t believe them, simply to communicate a concern would have been a kindness, I questioned him on all my concerns, if someone warned me, I wouldn’t have ignored their advice, I would have confronted him to get answers, but not betraying the person who had warned me.
    What of those who know what he is and choose to remain quiet? I guess, because I listen to people and I have warned others. I am sad I was nevr afforded the same. I would have questioned him …I may not have left him as he is an N and he would have manipulated it to his advantage not to lose me like he did with so many deceptions over the years.

    I know CN would say to me you can see the world through Others eyes, others are not like you, they don’t think like you. What you would do. They would not. Do not get upset when others display opposing behaviours. Not everyone is so kind. Don’t let them hurt you. Irony, at its best.
    I am not even speaking only in relationships to N’s. I see it so often In the workplace and in mutual friends I have. Where they “attack ” or share gossip of each other, then put me in the middle to mediate or choose sides.

    I guess this type of behaviour emotionally effects me. I shouldn’t allow it to. Thank you Cody. For reading and listening to me and giving me your input. I know you are correct. I still question so much. It feels heartbreaking at times when I think how others hurt and manipulate the lives of ones they claim to care for.

    1. Cody says:

      I hear you, Miss S. And I am so glad you are here. 🙂

  9. Clary says:

    Third day of no contact and he’s already starting to throw big manipulation and convincing facts of being sacrificing his love s d attitude for her as a love for me while he’s still engaged watching and ticking….. Holding my strength and resistance bit to fall for an answer I’m not in the category of fuling him by will

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Well done. There’s a long way to go but maintain your fortitude and keep updating me with your progress.

      1. Clary says:

        Thank you dear although I’m exploding on the inside wanting to kick his ass and choke him with my bare hands cause I know why he’s doing it thanks Tudor I know God has a special reward for you for doing that for me

      2. Clary says:

        I will dear

      3. Clary says:

        Manipulation has somehow stated to cease I think he’s giving me back a somewhat poker face if not I’m still standing in battle in my point his nearness is very dangerous he’s s lesser narcicist either way I’ll keep my fort you never know when he’ll make you think he’s ceasing and then boom appears at the abide carrousel all over again that’s why I’m resisting with both feet stuck Titi the floor seeing how dabgerous it really is I’m not sure if he’s mimicking my poker face since he’s a lesser and hahahaaaaaa I’m figuring out through different possibilities

      4. Clary says:

        I get tired easily and I have many illnesses I have favor that he has little to no contact with my people my supporters

  10. nikitalondon says:

    Very good explanation and arguments although I have always beem of the idea that nobody backstabs or takes away a partner from somebody. Unless they are very close friends of course. i tend to think that if a relationship breaks up for another person it was because the relationship was not working and was not meant to be, because to leave one person for another is not easy and therefor I thimk the umhappiness with the previous is evident.

    1. Cody says:

      “Nobody backstabs or takes a partner from somebody.” Nobody but a narc.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Damn right.

      2. nikitalondon says:

        Although I have been in relationship with Ns, I have never been involved with those triangles and betrayals and leaving anothef person hurt, but yes I think depending on the end of a relationship it must be then a callous discard only with an MN. As I wrote My comment I had been 20 hours awake -no sleep-and still recovering so bear with me 😃😃..

    2. Clary says:

      With a normal person yes but narcs is different they’re designed to be terminators seduction is their weapon silent treatment is everlasting punishment until you provide with silent treatment aka no contact according to Tudor

  11. Shaun Brown says:

    Great post as always …. EVERTHING is so pertinent …. Tell me, if exposed, within her circle of friends as are my friends what will be the devastating , verbal , if not more, retaliation from her … Also, can you point me to a post of EVIL ageing and its effect…..

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you Shaun. If you look to expose her within the circle of friends which forms part of her façade then she will smear you in order to erode your credibility and to try to win over those in the group. If you believe that you are able to do so without tipping her off, you could strike first and forewarn the members of the group in a low-key manner. See the book Smeared for more on this. The downside is that she outflanks you and you are smeared by her, identified as the trouble maker and ostracised by members of the group. With regard to your final comment do you mean the effect of aging on our kind or that evil causes aging?

  12. mlaclarece says:

    I would think your appliances-in-waiting would note your attention is only intermittent. Wouldn’t they catch on you’re not consistent and seem only 1/2 interested in them causing you then to appear like a player? You must lose out to some who get impatient?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Not when I know who is suited to that role. Never underestimate the capacity for women to backstab one another in order to gain the prize. I have seen it happen so many times. I know you would like to believe that you would all have one another’s backs but the reality is that self-interest trumps solidarity. The attention may only be intermittent but we are the masters at future-faking. If we can do it to keep an intimate partner hanging on, it is easy enough to do it with someone placed in the outer friend circle who is conditioned into thinking they may well have a chance to take centre stage in the future.

      1. Cody says:

        All true. This is also in response to Miss S’s recent post:
        Keep in mind that this is not a “normal” player jerk who is stringing multiple women/gfs/possibly even a fiance or wife along. With a narc, when each new supply is being groomed, she is not made aware of all the others, except for possibly the one in the process of being devalued. And she is painted out to be so horrible to this wonderful man who, let’s not forget, is in the process of love bombing this new target. So you see, Miss S, the concept of “sisterhood” really never stands a chance when you’re involved with a narc. At least not in the beginning. I think the only way it maybe would stand a chance is after you learn what he is and start educating yourself. The evil bitch exwife became almost overnight in my mind this poor woman who had to endure his abuse for far longer than I did. Lucky for her she is no longer his wife, but unlucky for me because had they still been married I like to think I could force myself to stay away. (Stop snickering, HG.). Unfortunately, not everyone gets educated on narcissism – we are a great community here but only a teardrop in the ocean of fuel supply for narcs everywhere. So in the end the only women who have the awareness – not necessarily the strength, though – to “do the right thing” are the ones who are educated on what he truly is. But sometimes it may just only be one within his infinite supply. And more often I would guess none.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You have articulated that with excellence Cody.

      2. mlaclarece says:

        Has nothing to do with the “sisterhood”. I’m talking solely between the Narc and the person he is grooming. One who may initially have been flattered by your growing interest, may note it is only when it’s convenient for you and get bored.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          They may but also keep in mind that the nature of the seduction, the nature of the target and the repeated future faking make it very hard for someone to just give up. It is like a gambler – “I have spent so much so another few pounds might just bring the big win.” – “I have waited so long to be with him and he tells me it will be soon, so I stand to lose so much so I may as well wait a little longer.” Then a year has gone by and they are still hanging on.

      3. Tappan Zee says:

        100% True. 100% Pathetic.

  13. mlaclarece says:

    Your reply to Soldmyselfshort, includes you saying her Narc knows and wants her to keep all texts, emails, pics and/or videos because he knows it will keep her bound to him rereading them. Basically keeping the ever presence alive. That makes total sense to me.
    Why did JN always insist I delete everything? Especially recently when he apologized again. He started in again about that being one of his biggest issues with me was my rereading and dissecting everything and he wanted it all deleted. He requested, doesn’t mean I obliged. They are mine to do with now as I please. But wouldn’t he want me keeping them as a reminder? Or in my situation is it because I was figuring him out and it felt threatening to him? Or just a new ploy to see if he could still control my actions? I never got that with him.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I suspect he identified that since you have stubborn streak Clarece that if he told you to delete things then you would not do so which was ultimately what he really wanted.

      1. mlaclarece says:

        I pondered this, but I think this one time your assessment is incorrect. I don’t think you had a chance to make your way to the email I forwarded with parts of our exchange when he “apologized” a few weeks back. But this has always been a reoccurring theme with him. He doesn’t like me keeping his texts so he can judged in the “court of MLA’s mind” at a later date (meaning when he goes silent). It doesn’t really matter. I’m back on the appliance heap, so all is quiet now.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No I haven’t reached the e-mail yet so maybe I have not been furnished with all of the relevant information.

          1. mlaclarece says:

            Oh, you also have the answer to your question from the other day waiting on Messenger. Slow-poke!

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Slow-poke? Is that one of those wretched Pokémon creatures?

          3. mlaclarece says:

            Nope! That’s all you baby!

  14. Soldmyselfshort says:

    Thanks HG. I will consider your advice. Nevertheless I have worked on myself the last 2 years purging my N out through therapy, meditation, exercise, self help books, Internet, etc…. Im diagnosed with depression, but I think I have PTSD too.. I burned out, lost my job, had suicidal thoughts, and lost myself in the process of awakening. I only started knowing about Ns the last 3 years. Reading your material identifies and gives me understanding of your kind. I thank you a million times! You have answered a lot of my questions. Almost all of what you written resonates to the point I need to take a break from reading because it literally makes me feel like I’m reliving it all over again. And at times I get nauseous and cry-crazy ! And then other times I’m so hooked and want to keep reading more and more about your kind for some sense of protection and healing. Yet still today my N lives in my thoughts everyday, and keeps disturbing my dreams. Some days it’s like he’s telepathically calling on me. So I keep all that memorabilia not too look back at memories (unlike what my N might believe), but for my own benefit to destroy him if need be. He disgusts me and I can’t believe how I made him win me over so many times and lasted for 10 years. I try to talk sense to myself, and listen to good logical advice like yours, yet a little voice keeps telling me to go the other way. To make him pay hard! If I were to smear him, yes I agree that would provide him with fuel, but in our world he’s going to be scum of the earth and will lose his grandoise status with many. He’s told me himself when we were together that if anybody were to find out about his infidelities, he would have to move city. That SOB,I wish he never happened in my life. I know I didn’t stand a chance, but I’m still paying for my mistakes.

    1. mlaclarece says:

      I identify and relate to much of your feelings. You are not alone here!

  15. Curious says:

    Can two Narcisssts meet and have an equally confusing love affair? And can a Narc actually grow tired of all the games and want to truly settle down with one person?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Two Ns can meet but it is unlikely that they would have a lasting relationship. Two Greaters would recognise one another and not engage. A Lesser and a Greater might last while as the Greater manipulates the Lesser but neither party will receive the fuel that they need so they would soon part. Two Lessers would just frustrate one another and move on.
      Grow tired of the games? No chance, the games must always be played. We won’t truly settle down with one person but for some of our kind the advancement of age and what comes with that results in a reduction of the machinations so they will want to stay longer with a primary source. They will still seek fuel from others but not on the same scale as they once did.

  16. Miss_stress says:

    @ soldmyselfshort….I understand that, I have the same on CN now, except he isn’t married…but just info wise….not mention other things regarding work , family members etc…revenge seems to easy…..when they mistreat us the way they do…the problem with revenge is the repercussions on you. What can he do to you, number one it will end relationship, which is good if that is aim, if he lives in same town, or knows same people, etc, has access to your workplace…the smear campaign will be nasty against you. Then sending such to his wife, who is innocent in his machinations, perhaps, naive or simply in denial over his true nature and cheating….he would have already made you out to be. Stalker or jealous , as he broke up with you and you won’t leave him alone. It would be better to send such info to an slightly more outer circle friend or family member of hers…you can trust not to tell him, but who can then take Info to those who need to be aware…aka his wife. You taking it will not be effective or productive for you. You also have to look at why you want to do this, to hurt him or help her. This sounds easy , but it is really complicated. Consider all people involved and know your true objective.
    Think it over carefully, weight the pros and cons of doing such. Ensure you are safe and no one gets hurt. He will continue it be a she is, even if she happens to decide to kick him out, it won’t change what he is. It will only maybe change his circumstance. And depending on how long he and his wife have been together. She will believe him and stand by him, as no doubt she as his primary source has been beaten down psychologically by abuse and fear.
    I am simply playing the Devils advocate here…for you to weigh all possibilities before acting on any form of revenge, I thought on it too, then decided against it. Not for his sake, but for mine. I do understand where you are at.

  17. Clary says:

    Sokdmysekfshort don’t be so passive be more aggressive and assertive without getting yourself into trouble or being called troublemaker

  18. Clary says:

    At sokdmysekfshort it’s time to shout like never before open your mouth all the time and don’t be quiet because you’re only killing yourself and don’t feel guilty about his behavior ur wasn’t your fault not you let him control you that’s an excuse from the abusers they make you feel or tell you to feel you more blame full by putting the blame I. You with more power like a block or cement forced over s house

  19. steeviann says:

    So the song GRAVITY by Sara Bareilles is the perfect song for how, I am sure, all us victims feel at times. My Narc knows this too. He counts on it.

    1. Miss_stress says:

      I love that song Steeviann, I would even send it to him during silent treatments….he never once acknowledged the lyric of that song..we both relate to music via lyric. I Listen to it a lot. I find it helps me. I will Listen again now….thanks Steeviann. Not for him btw, for me. As I enjoy the song muchly.

      1. steeviann says:

        Miss_stress! I have a good one for you to make your new theme song. “Hey Heartbreak” by Jennifer Nettles. Go give it a listen and get back to me. Peace.

        1. Miss_stress says:

          Will listen now and let you know , thank you.

        2. Miss_stress says:

          Great song, Steeviann, opposite feeling to the other song. I emotionally connect to the GraVity song….there are certain songs that breach the happy and the sad, that is one of them for me. An anthem, indeed. It is through our deep felt heartbreak they seek to renter, it is the crack that permits admittance. Seal it with self love, hope and life…..they will need to knock upon another’s door.
          She was lead singer of Sugarland, right? Cross over country.

          1. steeviann says:


  20. jessica says:

    Poor girl…. so confused by all of it… Been there very harsh discard but she was still holding on to it and thought it was love

  21. Miss_stress says:

    And why the hell is there no sisterhood, that, more then the men, dismays me. I believe in sisterhood, helping each other, not cheating with Someone else’s boyfriend or ex, telling someone Information that will spare them heart ache….but it always seems one way. It is heart breaking, Along with the N disregard and discards.
    Why are women so territorial and vindictive to one another over a man, especially a man they barely know? why does the man, get the loyalty over another woman? Is it for sex? For material gain? Is it because the N chooses women he knows with support or defend him… Over her own sex? I knew information and I always tried to spare another. He will paint if not already painted me horribly to everyone we know….it saddens me. As all I did was love him.
    He did as you said with his reseverists…..why do you bring that out In people, not all HG, not me. I refuse to allow that to become who I am. My integrity is intact. He won’t turn me into that type of person. They can have him, their true fates Awaits them soon. Just as mine did.

    The book, he has so many books and CDs and things I gave given him that if he kept them I would reach his sixth sphere of influence easily.
    I felt that scenario, HG. Like I was On the end of that phone call. It mad me sad and teary to read it. Knowing it is all meaning less from his perspective other then some sweet top,up fuel.
    He would shorten my name too. That same way….or use cute pet names. Blaming himself, exalting me.
    Once, HG he said this to me after a silent treatment. He said he was sat work Listening to the audio book( he wears headphone when working often listening to music) American Gods and the female character voice reminded me so much of me that he had to get in touch with me. That he couldn’t bare not speaking to me any longer, that he missed me and it hit him in his solar plexus. At the time. I thought , he does truly love me….to return this way…but now I know the truth. Her voice reminded him of mine and he craved Hoover fuel ASAP. Wow!!!

    Bravo, HG.

  22. Soldmyselfshort says:

    This is so spot on and so f@*ked up!! I would not have wasted a decade of my life away had I known about your kind. It’s true, since its been over, I do check up on him. I dont know why or what i want. Maybe revenge for making me believe we were a love story. Sometimes I wish I could let his wife know he’s been cheating on her all these years not only with me but with several others. Especially one particularly from her circle of friends. I have kept it hush because I don’t want to hurt his wife and kids…
    but in my heart I so want to ruin him just like he ruined me. Any suggestions?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Look to your own defences. If you attempt to smear him through allegations of infidelity, you are unlikely to be believed (his wife wont want to believe it) and he probably has a good grip on her so he would paint you as a troublemaker. This will only cause you greater anguish and is a battle you are unlikely to win. He will feed off the drama your revelations would create and then he would quash them. He gains fuel, his wife and children are distraught and you may find it unpleasant too (depends on your fortitude and how viciously he responds). How long has it been over? If you want revenge, consider the contents of Revenge as that is how to hit him hard, but keep in mind it is not for everybody

      1. Soldmyselfshort says:

        Thanks for your response HG. It’s been over for almost 2 years now and I still cannot find peace. Logically I know I should follow your advice, and I have been hush all this time, but I’m still struggling hard. I do blame myself for letting him control my world like I was his puppet, but I still want him to suffer the consequences of manipulating my life as well as others. I have proof, pictures, videos of us, years of emails and archived texts between us. This alone would ruin him. My only pain and anguish would be for his wife and kids. Im confused still. I was hoping Karma would take care of him, but 2 years later he’s living grand and too happy. Eventually I might have to blow the whistle on him.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You cannot trust to karma. He appears to be living grand and happy but that is part of the façade and it is done to disparage you. “Look at how happy I am and how miserable you are. That’s why I win and you lose.” It is an act. Naturally you want him to suffer the consequences but what most people think will accord them revenge does not do so at all. All it achieves is the provision of fuel and additional anguish. You are very much adrift in the emotional sea at present. You blame yourself (which is an intended consequence of our manipulation) but you are not at fault. You have been manipulated by an expert in the dark art. There is no shame in acknowledging that. You never had a chance. You are far better served looking to your own defences and forging forward. He WANTS you thinking about striking out at him that way you remain focused on him and you do not move forward. He knows you have all the videos and e-mails and he WANTS you to look at them, daily, so each time you allow his infection of you to keep a hold on you. He will be revelling in this and will look to hoover you at some point.
          You are obviously a kind and decent person. That was why you were chosen. It also manifests in your hesitancy concerning his wife and kids. They will have their own battles to fight with him and those are not your battles. Your emotions want to send the material and expose him but those emotions are not giving you the right answer. You need cool, hard logic. The logic which tells you to push through the emotion, focus on yourself and rid yourself of the infection that still plagues you. Those are your priorities. Once you have gathered your strength and purged him to a greater extent, then you can consider how to exact revenge in accordance with what I advocate in Revenge. Until then you have more pressing priorities to address for yourself.

      2. twinkletoes says:

        Revenge is fun, Sold… particularly if yours is a helmet wearing, crayon eating leper like mine.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          “Helmet wearing, crayon eating leper” – it is Monday morning and my week has been fully entertained already by this comment. So much so, I know someone who is going to get this insult blasted at them today. Thanks TT.

    2. Seeking wisdom says:

      Been right where you are soldmyselfshort. I have often wanted to confront my Ns wife too but I agree with HG, she and his kids are fighting their own battles with him and just provide more fuel for him. It is hard to forget and turn the focus on ourselves. Implementing some unidentifiable revenge tactics may provide some self-help to get you through this difficult period before you can move on. HG has spelled out some interesting ones that provide narcissistic injury without identifying who it is from. Perhaps HG can refresh my memory of that blog post name here.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Thank you SW. The appropriate approach is set out in Revenge which provides the foundation and rationale for achieving it whilst also allowing the relevant person to identify if it is appropriate for them as it is not for everybody. The post you are thinking of is 5 Post Discard Revenge Jabs.

  23. Hope says:

    Adding a bit more… Sometimes, HG we’re able to take back our power. I ended things with my N. last year & he hoovered a few times. Reading your posts and books made me realize that indifference was my goal. Which I’ve achieved, in my own way…
    He recently hoovered me, (again) using a method similar to this post. I still admire him and think highly of him, but no longer in a romantic way. I chose to respond – thus breaking No Contact. And am fine with it.

    My world is a bit brighter knowing that he thinks of me from time to time, and doesn’t want me to think he despises me.
    Of course, being a Greater N… he’s gone silent after the contact. Fine with me, I’m still smiling. I know what he is, and know what to expect.
    My heart is calmer, and I am indifferent to his negative antics. Life will go on for both of us, and I probably won’t hear from him again. ::shrug::

    All I know, is thanks to you, I now realize – N’s aren’t monsters. They have their ways, and we have ours. He got his fuel, and I feel better about myself now. And am able to assess all of this much more objectively due to your books.
    Of course I know it’s all been an illusion. And I was played by a player. Once I accepted that – it was time to lose the anger, move on and enjoy life again.
    Life is good and life goes on. 🙂
    YOU gave me back my power, HG thank you.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome and thanks for sharing your experience. If you find satisfaction in the way you deal with him now, having achieved understanding, then that is the most appropriate outcome for you. Some people always need to maintain No Contact, others can engage such as the way you have done and the way Alexis does (but she and I both know she just enjoys being a ball breaker don’t you Alexis?) but you have seized the power which works for you.

      1. Misty says:

        Would a narc Hoover you if you’ve moved hundreds of miles away, using texts or phone calls, even though there is a very slim to no chance you’ll see him again?

        1. HG Tudor says:


      2. Alexissmith2016 says:

        Hahaha only just seen this comment!

        I beleive I do HG!

    2. nikitalondon says:

      Yes they are not monsters. They are humans with feelings… Maybe different but feelings 💞

  24. Anji Todd says:

    what if she laughed?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      In what way? Nervously? Laughed at the first thing I said in a derisory manner?

      1. Clary says:

        I think she means mock I’ve done it

  25. Seeking wisdom says:

    This vicious cycle has been my life for the past 4 years. Only this time, I escaped instead of being discarded. Here’s hoping I don’t pick up that phone or answer that text next time. Your words and writing have been tremendously helpful in my determination,

    1. HG Tudor says:

      By escaping you have begun to seize the power. Thank you SW.

      1. Clary says:

        Fight the power- quote from a new York 80s movie about racism

        1. That would be a song by Public Enemy. In a Spike Lee film Do the right thing. Music is my life.

      2. Clary says:

        Exactly even more no contact

    2. Clary says:

      Me seven years

  26. karen519 says:

    Wow, Ouch! My picture is busting and falling to the floor 😞

    1. Clary says:

      Oh😭😢well mend the pieces of our heart

  27. Soldmyselfshort says:

    This is so fucked up!

  28. says:

    HG, what if she had not answered the phone and you know she’s seen the missed call and doesn’t bother to call you back ? Or answered the call and just said , nothing much and hung up on you ? Then what would you do ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      If she hasn’t answered the ‘phone I would have called again later, but I knew she would answer if she was near it, so I don’t regard it as her ignoring me but that she wasn’t able to answer.
      If she had said nothing much and hung up on me? That just wouldn’t have happened, but for the sake of your question if she had I would have derived fuel from this act because it was clear she was upset/angry etc. Then I would have called a day later.

  29. Me says:

    HG I am literally living the life you write about. I was discarded 3 weeks ago. Last night he called to say he loves me and can’t live without me. Of course he can’t I am his source. I should mention that in 5 years I have been discarded over a hundred timès. It’s not going to change is it? He has never been unfaithful though. Your thoughts?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      One hundred times in 5 years is substantial. Might they not have been silent treatments? Yes he loves your fuel and cannot live without it. You are wrong about it is not going to change. He will not change, but you can.
      Read Fuel, No Contact, Black Hole and Smeared to arm yourself and follow those principles to put an end to this merry go round. Keep reading, increase your understanding and contribute here as you have a battle ahead of you, but this time you have a champion on your side.

      1. Clary says:

        Nice thanks for your support Tudor

      2. Heather says:

        I love that! A Champion on our side! Wow! Permission to vent?!! Permission to rant if it helps?!! You are too good to be true!!

  30. Hope says:

    But, you made her very happy too. The sun is shining brighter in the sky for Tabitha. Even if she never hears from you again, HG. She will bask in the warmth of her thoughts & memories about you. You’ve made her world better.
    (Dare I add – for now?)

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I appreciate that insight Hope.

      1. Clary says:

        Hmmmmm dangerous

  31. Clary says:


    1. HG Tudor says:

      I do like comments like this.

      1. steeviann says:

        quick reads?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          What do you mean Steeviann?

          1. steeviann says:

            Right to the point. Sometimes few words say more then long dissertations. Like mine, I just ramble on and on at times. But I think you realize it is just a great forum to rant and vent for the likes of myself.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            If ranting assists you then rant away.

      2. Clary says:


Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

Previous article

Ten Unintended Consequences

Next article

Going Nowhere