5 Reasons We Discard You




The seduction is mesmerising and as part of its allure we of course tell you why we chose you with a thousand different sensual sentences. Some may seem over-the-top; others make sense to you but either way you are given the basis of understanding why we have been drawn to you. We do not tell you the real reasons why we chose you but we do provide you with some.

The devaluation is tortuous, horrific and unpleasant. You are unable to ascertain why we have suddenly knocked you from your pedestal. It is bewildering and confusing and only serves to add to your pain. You may have some reasons hurled at you but they will not make any sense to you and this is by design, to keep you confused and where we want you. Reasons are given, they just do not make sense.

Then comes the discard and more often than not you are left sprawled in the dust, exhausted, bereft and shattered with no explanation given as to why you have been thrown to one side as we stroll off into the sunset walking away nonchalantly. Why has it ended so suddenly? What did you do wrong? Why have we not told you why this has happened? The pain of being rejected is magnified by the failure to provide you with any explanation. Naturally, this refusal to explain is part of our design. We feel no need to explain because we can do as we want. We feel no need to give reasons because in our eyes you deserve no reasons because you have failed us. We offer no information for you to consider and process because certainly amongst the lesser of our kind they do not know themselves why is has ended, but it had to. This is the way it has to be.  There are however reasons why you are discarded. These are those reasons.


  1. You Have Wised Up

You have worked out, usually as a consequence of some external assistance that we must provoke you and make you react in an emotional fashion. You may not entirely understand why this dynamic occurs, you may not realise why it is so important to us, but you know that we want to make you react and you have stopped doing so. You have learned to respond in a neutral fashion and thus deprive us of our fuel. We apply our machinations in a harsher fashion, increasing the pressure to cause you to react as we feed on our secondary sources in the meanwhile but your resistance is substantial. You have not walked away, perhaps you are unable for financial reasons, children or the inconvenience of seeking a new home, but you have turned off the tap and we realise that it is not going to be turned back on anytime soon. We do not want to be in this weakened state and we do not wish to apply the energy we need to finding or embedding a new primary source to be used up on trying to squeeze fuel from you. Thus you are dropped.


  1. The New Source Is in Place

We began our devaluation of you as we sought a replacement for you. This explains the repeated affairs and now we have settled on your replacement as a primary source of fuel. He or she has been seduced and embedded into our supply chain. We are confident that they are functioning well, pouring forth delicious positive fuel in significant quantities and in a reliable manner, far better than you ever did. We have been fuelled by your negative fuel but there is no longer any need to keep you in play now that we have our new bright and shiny plaything. On to the scrap heap you go. We will come back later for a hoover of course, but for now it is adios.


  1. You’re Broken

Although it may seem during devaluation that we are trying to destroy you, that is actually not the case. Yes, we are driving you downwards through our repeated application of horrible manipulations but we do not want to finish you off. Just like somebody’s head we are holding under water, we will let you surface spluttering and gasping for air, by way of a respite period before plunging you into the icy water once again and holding you under. In and out, up and down, push and pull. We will have you bouncing along the bottom but not destroyed. Sometimes we go too far and the avalanche of abuse takes its toll on you resulting in you becoming broken. You are left numb, barely functioning or even hospitalised as a consequence of a break down. You provide us with no reaction any longer. Unlike the first instance above, this is not by choice, but as a consequence of our behaviour breaking you. Knowing now that you will not provide us with any fuel, we show our callous nature by taking no interest in your broken state but instead we shift our focus to embedding the new prospect that we have been cultivating and drop you.


  1. Major Exposure

You may have us worked out but your shock and horror at this, along with your desire to actually try to help and change us, means you continue you to spill out fuel towards us. You have the knowledge but you are not using it effectively, so we see no reason to go elsewhere. You may be trying to tell other people about our terrible behaviours but we have got in first, launched the smear campaign and maintained the façade. It is business as usual. Occasionally however you might just outflank us and manage to tell other people what we are like before we can do anything about it. These people see some incontrovertible evidence that you have obtained (admittedly usually obtained when dealing with the lesser and mid-range of our kind) and take your side. News spreads and those people we thought we could rely on either turn their backs on us or worse take your side. The façade is crumbling. The fuel has stopped and the energy required to change people’s minds (with no guarantee of success) is too great. We have been exposed in a major fashion. Rather than face the music and allow ourselves to be destroyed we drop you like a stone, saddle up and ride out of town in order to find a new place which hasn’t heard about who we are.


  1. Wounding with Intent

You’ve brought your A game on this occasion. Not only do you know what we are, the revelations that you have been provided with have caused you to now understand how you can hurt us. You know to turn off the tap but you know how to obtain the ultimate revenge against us and your emotion-free criticisms are launched at us. These criticisms wound us repeatedly, burning and hurting us and with no way of getting fuel from you, we are being beaten. You have been well schooled by somebody and applying those learned lessons you are starting to attack the very pillars of our existence. We are under a serious attack and fighting back is not an option. We need to flee and quickly. We don’t want you any longer, we know we cannot succeed at this moment in time and therefore we need to beat a retreat and promptly. You don’t want to let us off the hook because you want answers and you want to punish us for what we have done to you. You are not going to end our connection. We are not going to hang around however and we will discard you as we beat that retreat so we can recover, replenish and then look to strike back at a later date when your guard may be down.



  1. Thanks for this. I’m always amazed when I discover that all narcissists use the exact same phrases and excuses. It’s creepy. It took me sooo long to figure it all out but I finally did. My N was somewhat self-aware and even said things (prior to me unmasking her)like “it’s not going to make sense”, “as your friend, I’m telling you to stop contacting me. It’s the only way I know to help you”, “you couldn’t have done anything different”, “I’m so worried that I’m going to hurt or disappoint you”, etc. it all makes sense in hindsight. She actually said “this was never real, it was a fantasy” during a discard.

  2. HG…….as arrogant as this blog is……….thank you for being willing to add to make it public. Number 5 is of particular interest to me. No. 5 wounding with intent. The cyclical nature of things eventually got to the point where I stated..…” you just want someone- -anyone to be with at night.” I tried and offered grace for the entire truth regarding infidelities- -the eventual ending was- -” I will call you at 8″ I reached out at 9 and stated are we going to talk tonight? The answer I got was “this is too much……I can’t give you what you want or need.” I then said enough is enough and sent her a screen shot of narc’s in relationship. I have been blocked and radio silence. I also told her I cannot deal with this hot and cold then being slammed. Her idea of “work” in a relationship is going to church where she is held in high esteem since she provide the dance scenes for Christmas and Easter. Her Ex reached out to me on FB and her response was not one of sorrow for putting me in this position yet she went to his house blasted him and blasted me for believing his story. She then told me “he” played me like a fiddle. Final text no conversation was “he” didn’t play me like a fiddle I was worked by someone I care about. Side note she also threatened self harm the one time I had enough of her behavior early on. Thoughts?

    1. It is not arrogant, merely correct and thank you for your appreciation.

      With regard to your personal situation, if you are wanting me to comment on the observations you have made this is a time consuming matter and therefore if best addressed through consultation.

      1. I absorbed EVERY word of your book and am VERY grateful for the enlightenment. I was like a rat trapped in a dark hole for the past month and finally… light. I was dumped after 6 months in a long distance relationship with a narc. The details are unimportant. What is important is that without knowing it, I hit on a tender spot in a text message about his silent treatment and the fact that there was a woman coughing in his bed as we spoke. I referred to “the narcs daughter” I made a comment about not wanting another man to treat his daughter how he treated me. He IMMEDIATELYYYYYY texted and severed contact stating that “my daughter will be fine.” He tries all to get close to his daughter but she just uses him to get what she wants. These are his words not mine!!! He tried to call later that night and I refused to answer. I sent him a text right after stating that he asked me to desist communication with him, yet he was calling me so he could leave a text message if he wished…..He didnt respond. I NEVER gave him the opportunity to mouth off on me. Without knowing it I tore his heart out of his chest and spat on it as he idolizes his daughter of 26 years and she treats him like GARBAGE! I feel vindicated…The love I poured out to him and was treated like a piece of S@!T…is the same he has been giving to his daughter and get the same shitty treatment. The difference is its coming from his own flesh and blood. While I will heal and love again…He has to live with that pain of rejection FOREVER!!!!! I can now tell the world what it is like to be in hell…..Good bye you piece of filthy scum…I smell shit and poison all over you. I have blocked you and removed you from my phone. I was waiting for you to hover to ignore you COMPLETELY as you did me..not anymore…. I want every shred of you out of my life… …Just stay away…very far away…WORTHLESS PIECE OF CRAP. You make me angry and sick to my stomach. You are like Cancer…I have cut you off like a diseased limb. I dont need to suffer this rejection 2 …3 …4 times to get the point. You did a head shot and I GOT IT! Recovering from Cocaine addiction must be easier than the trauma recovering from this. I thought you were generous but now realize your deposit was a minute fraction of what your planned withdrawal. In the end I dodged your storm but felt the strong outerbands. You are a beast …a sick , disgusting, excuse for a human being. I am thankful to be out sane and disease free…I have NO INTEREST WHATSOEVER…who is laying up in your bed or filling your head…You are EVIL and Heart less…I will treat you like the disease you are..You are a Demon and I will block you with every fibre of my being and purge you out of my soul…Worthless…Useless..Filthy excuse for a man!!!!!!

      2. I read some of your books online HG Tudor (any relation to the King I wonder? Ha!) A very comprehensive guide to the narcissist and the damage they cause. Like you, I come from a family of narcs, went through a narc phase myself in my twenties, then a victim phase, met three narcs in my time (far more damaged than me, poor souls). They all taught me about the fuel needs, the endless and overpowering competitiveness, (so desperate and sad), the loneliness, the ‘monster’ in the basement, (mirror!) In the end, learned to a ‘void’. They have not, their voids are still the tails wagging their poor dogs, I’m sure you get the picture. Image matters in modern day human society, substance rarely, in that field of operation, narcissism runs riot. I hope you find peace with your ‘monster’ HG, truly in the end you will find that he/she is the better part of yourself. Mine is by miles. M x.

          1. We live, we love, we suffer, we learn, we move along. Wisdom is a stony path, but its rewards are the greatest fuel there is. With one narc, the hardest part was realizing some 25 years down the line (we’d not been in touch for that long.) was that the young man I so admired and loved was after this time, a bigger void than me! That was a shock actually, superficially he had everything I lacked, loving family (faith in cheezy Jeezy, the Biblical golden boy savior, and the scapegoat devil on which all sins are dumped), good looks, charm, many flying monkeys, three degrees and a worthwhile career, whereas I had exactly the opposite (I won’t bore you with all that!) but his need for fuel was so much more desperate and all consuming than mine had ever been, in fact I’ve never ever met or heard of anyone with such desperate need, not even Ted Bundy or you! In time, I faced my need for fuel HG, as you are doing now (or have been since your therapy began), accepted it and literally removed it from my construct, I just stopped pretending I was ‘normal’, the price was finally accepting that I am not and never will be human in the normal/ordinary sense, and when I did, wow, the freedom, the peace, the loneliness, it’s true, but I got used to that in time. Every narcy does! I no longer feed from anyone or anything, like a vampire of legend, I have faded in human terms from society, from social interaction (personally anyways!) from faaaammmmleeee, that old banana (thank god!) and from my lower self – my human construct. The void will always be there, at the heart of it, is the memory of my ‘phantom lover, friend’, the other two lesser narcs and most of all the narcissist that I once was but also the monster that I am now by many human estimations no doubt, I still love the illusions of the people these narcs once were, always will, but now, slowly, monster that I am, I am surviving my narcs, but also the constructs that others heaped upon my own ‘good self’. As we do HG, as we do. Take care, stay strong, by writing as you do, helping these people, you are doing more good than you know. M x.

  3. I’ve read through almost all of your blog now and you have perfectly described how my wife has treated me for the last 4 years. I am gobsmacked.
    I was love bombed to perfection. Then I was devalued to perfection.
    Discarded several times.
    I was discarded for the last time at the weekend.(She had already moved out earlier this year). We have been ‘dating’ each other for the last 3 months to save our marriage, at least I thought we were. Then, one minute she’s holding my hand on the sofa and we have just kissed and the next she walks out saying she has no feelings for me other than those of a friend. Then she was gone. I’ve not heard from her since.

  4. When I fled the long term marriage it was because he went bsc and threatened my life. I was so in love with the illusion of a wonderful but seemingly crazy relationship. After leaving and being away for over a year, unfortunately I still love his illusion of what was and how I failed and that’s why the relationship went down hill. All I could ask for several month was “why?”. I never found any counseling that came close to giving me even a sliver of understanding such as this site! It is harsh to read from the narc’s perspective, however, it’s a pleasant slap into reality of why written for anyone to understand. It may be harsh but for me it is oh so very therapeutic. Thank You! I’m beginning to understand in less than 24 hours what I couldn’t find in over a year!

      1. I type in “signs you are being worked by someone and after reading this what an eye opener – they say the same things and have the same excuses – creepy ! you can say that again -where in the world do they learn all of this ? they do and say things you never would tht of

    1. Corkie Marie,
      Continue reading HG’s books-they taught me so much. Consultations are the best-he is able to spell out all you need to continue on your journey! All the best and keep coming back it WORKS!

  5. My ex 30 years ..found a new supply..left & myself & adult disabled child never seen them since. Refused to pay any of the divorce settlement despite knowing I have no income. Took money out of a joint bank account when he realised I had suddenly moved on. Had devised emails to prove I was nasty to him so he had to cheat! Our adult child been ill two or three times (seriously) and pretends he isnt aware! Makes out I am satan and yet he sent pics of his squeeze to tell me after 30 years he was having an affair. This probably one of the milder things to be honest! Seriously the stunts he has pulled are simply mind blowing and all to protect his image and his cash. Now he is suddenly a few years on (after no cards or presents etc for birthdays, hospitalisations, xmas etc etc) suddenly realised he is wounded is adult child wants nothing to do with him! I cannot even begin to express the audacity this person has but he is, as always, the victim!

    1. Should have added. He walked out out of the complete blue. one night just.packed all his things of 30 years in 40 mins and we have never seen him since! No explanations. Blamed every thing on me and even sent pics of his “affair” for my approval? Skipped country next day leaving me to explain everything to everyone..Married her after I announced I was remarried & now as I say after painting me as the devil incarnate simply to try to take the attention of his own narcissistic ways and of course to justify his affair. Some are still fooled by him, but not his own adult offspring. Sadly they have even said to me… Dont worry about me mum…I never felt he loved me anyways. Tolerated me for you..but didnt love me. Is this is a NPD trait?…ie is it he would easily discard his only sick adult child now he no longer needs me? Because out of all the hateful & totally uncalled for disrespect he has shown to me after HE had the affair this is the one I cannot quite grasp. I had hoped our child had not noticed dads reluctance to spend time with them. But how can he show so much indifference to a child adult or not who has many problems he is more than privvy to? He is now just angry years later that they wont let him just waltz back in, ie he genuinely believes what he has done..ie just literally walk away suddenly, refusing to pay divorce settlement, leaving within 40 mins after 30 years, no.contact even when offspring in hospital..should not be a problem to anyone. He seriously thinks this is not to be questioned by even his own adult child. Affair was a bar girl whilst working overseas. Ego stroked no doubt!

  6. This is my ex wife Christine whom I loved like no other could have any greater. GOD did we love each other – We seemed like we would always remain together and she NEVER said or gave any indication that she wanted to divorce or even separate just was ALWAYS selfish but claimed to love me and that the sun rose and set with me whenever asked – But there was this undercurrent – always – I never could reach her or make her see the ways in which her behavior was so horribly damaging to me and in the bigger sense of things to “us” and I tried like no person has tried to reach her in every way conceivable for the 18 years we were together, each year she took more and more pieces of me away and while I was rotting away falling deeper into depressions, lost my businesses, my incomes,until I succumb to self medicating and being secluded by my habits by myself in our basement and she kept the pretend thing we had going that there was nothing going on with me downstairs when we both knew what I was doing and I cried for help on several occasions only to be told “I don’t know how to help you” when all the while I felt that deep pain and resentment and inner dialogue when I looked at her that” This is because of you” she would leave me financial destitute while she enjoyed an upper middle class life, would leave me with no working cars, revoked drivers license because I couldn’t pay my tickets and would repaint her car if it got a scratch on it she would buy $2400 cats and go on trips, all while my ability to start a new would depend on me raising $1800 to pay my tickets and $600 to fix my cars and get back out there and back to earning as I found a new opportunity and started it in my basement but couldn’t get out to do the work so I had to take on partners to help who just took advantage of my situation and usually just didn’t last. Eventually I told her that I feel I may have reached the end and don’t want to go on except for the fact that I loved her and if she ever left I would just end my life as my love for her was the only thing keeping me alive. That at least I had her and we were together and loved each other and she told me how precious I was and gave me a leg massage and I fell asleep,. The next morning I a woke, she was gone for work but this day she never came home and I was worried as this NEVER happened, could get in touch with her, phone was off, her mother wasn’t answering, nothing. She left me just like that and I never really ever saw her again, she called me once the next day and I told her that this may be the last time she ever hears my voice again as I may not be alive after this and she hung up on me and shut her phone off – 10 hours later she had the police kick the door in, as they seemed stunned to find me alive and well watching TV on the couch and hopelessly awaiting my love to come home. She told them that I was saying I was going to blow my brains out with a shot gun under the bed and they went up and retrieved HER shot gun from under the bed and said “well she had us under the impression that you had killed yourself as you threatened to do and with this gun all of which I never said I just stated to these cops that well If she said he was killing himself with a steak knife and you rushed into my kitchen and found 17 steak knives in the drawer would that make her to be truthful. All the same it didn’t really hit me or more accurately I loved her so much I would never believe that she just in 24 hours tried twice to provoke my suicide which I was never going to do, just wanted sympathy and attention from her and she was questioned by the police at the time why she waited 10 hours to call them as she hung up on me that that morning at 7:30 Am and waited until 5:30 PM to call the police to report that I had possibly committed suicide in the house and they realized that she wanted to give me the time and influence to do it to myself – and 2 of the cops told me just that right then and there – but I couldn’t believe that – – – but so she wouldn’t be walking on a dead body and possibly be a suspect, she had the police enter the house in her absence and found me very alive and well, but they still took me from my home in front of all the neighbors in handcuffs and remanded me to the psych ward and there I was told by the lead Dr that based upon her evaluations I will be here for a 5-6 hours but she was ending her shift and the next Dr would continue her evaluation based upon this Dr lead off observation notes and told me not to worry. The next Dr was basically for no other better word a CUNT and she told me I have 2 options, sign my self in for a 4 month treatment or just sit there until the 72 hours they hold new intakes expires and then I will be admitted for the 4 months anyway.I was shocked at what had happened so far and was just left dumbfounded by what this CUNT told me and just said “Those are my options? Turns out this CUNT was a great friend of my wife’s aunt who also taught at the same medical school in which this psych center is placed.So the fix was in there and they were trying to provoke a violent or huge out burst from me by telling me this and acting so nasty to me so I would get admitted for my whacked out violent behavior or some shit – but I was so bewildered that it had the opposite effect just broke my insides more, like swallowing a smaller bomb after the original Mega ton bomb I swallowed earlier – but all the same I had to stay in there with absolutely criminally insane people from that Friday evening until this doctor’s supervisory was gone and Monday morning the original Dr walked in and I saw her look at me through the office glass and I could read her lips when she was asking the sub supervisory staff “What the fuck is he still doing here” She read the folder quickly and just slid the glass open and told me to meet her in the evaluation room and I did, she asked if I fought was violent or was abusive or disruptive in any way and I said no and it would say so in that chart if I was, she basically said a few advice and guidance things but mostly was in the majority of her talk making me aware that she will have me released within 15-20 mins as I do not belong here. I got released got home to an empty house, no wife and within 30 mins the Sheriffs showed at the door with an order of protection, gag order, no communications order and so on and I had 10 mins to gather some minor things and leave my home. I never saw my wife my step son my dog, cats or any of my things again, wife I saw in court 2 times and I never went again, she had nothing that I wanted expect one thing , her heart. That was 7 years ago, I have never seen or heard or have any knowledge of how she is and she only lives 1.5 miles from me – how do you get over that type of abrupt cleave from all that you have, know and LOVE and there were NO signs this was coming like this, but the most difficult things are the extremes of telling me I am so precious and rubbing me until I fall asleep only to do the exact things that I said would cause me to end my own life the VERY next day and then lie to get me taken to the loony bin, lie to get these blanket orders of protection against me and within a week, she illegally moved every single thing that she felt belonged to me from the house and put in a storage unit, repainted, got all new furniture and even though legally all is marital property and I could have made her have to put all my things back and fought her for years in court, I just was so shattered and beaten and most of all HEART BROKEN beyond what you can ever imagine, I never wanted to hurt her or fight in “spite” court with her at all, I wanted her heart and love, that’s all, all the rest was and is meaningless crap that she could have and take, I left myself broken, penniless and went through all of this ABSOLUTELY alone, not a sole came to my aid or comfort. I heard that poor woman, she must have been living so badly that she just exploded and had to escape, no, none of that, I was living like a uncared for loving husband that needed his wife to help him back to his feet and she just stepped over me every day ion her way out the door. I was the victim and it was because I loved her so much I would have NEVER left and never stopped trying, I only now live with the empty blank space of knowing I could never have ever reached her inner person and never could have fixed what is wrong with her as she is a complete and utter narcissists. That is the only thing I am left with from all of this, and that is NO closure at all! That is what loving a true narcissist can do to you.

  7. This is particularly “helpful.” I am still sorting through the wreckage of being *not* discarded 8 months ago — and have shared my stuff here: rachel2point0.blog – Yep, I recently gave you a shoutout and have often hyperlinked to your posts. Thanks for helping me inform others about all things narc-related. Cheers.

  8. My Trauma Counselor had exposed my own MRN, informing me all his behavior was spot on to one. First, I was taken aback and stunned, oh no this cannot be true. I studied hard and was became enlightened to his sick twisted games. His gig was up, everything now made sense.

    As HG warns, to expose the narc is a dangerous endeavor; however, I wasn’t quite convinced yet—I needed proof positive evidence, so I put him to the test and he unknowingly gave me the confirmation I needed.

    He had been drinking heavily (we were on vacation with MY friends), with him in a weakened state of being drunk I knew he would be caught off guard and the games would begin. I sent out a text to his three boys, a pic of his father with his new glasses on, basking in the sun. Two of them chimed in with appropriate responses; however, his youngest 26-year old son (one of his main sources of fuel and a Narc himself who has enjoyed belittling me, being disrespectful, snarky and downright snotty), responds with his typical snotty remarks. I singled him out of the group text and told him “No need to be a snot. Try to be nice, it’s better.” This was the first time in six years and two months I had addressed him directly about his behavior. I had pleaded and begged my own Narc to speak with him about his behavior – to no avail, he couldn’t he would lose that fuel.

    My test worked, he literally flew off the rails and WOW there it was the actual monster himself, his mask fell off, and for the first time I saw his ‘true self,’ dark and evil. Instead of behaving in my usual manner, trying to calm him down, find out what was wrong, apologizing even though I had done nothing wrong – I went into SNM. Oh, he was in trouble!

    I confronted him with what he was, that I had known all along what he was up to, all his misdeeds and sickening tactics, exposed all his past behavior, broke them all down one-by-one, only withholding the ones I plan to use in court. He became completely unglued – good, I’m liking this turn of events. No worries, I had made all my preparations well in advance and was ready for the fallout. I told him it was time to divorce, I no longer wanted to be associated with his kind, that I had endured enough of his behavior. I told him I would let him file, so I he wouldn’t be embarrassed at work. I wasn’t doing him a favor, I wanted him to tip his hand, so I would also know what tactics he was going to try and use. As an extra bonus, because I was prepared, he tried but didn’t get to serve me, as all my paperwork was in order, signed in advance and one call to my attorney squashed it all. Again no fuel for him.

    We arrive home, I’m fully expecting him to move out of the house, with his typical disappearing act, so I made an excuse to leave to grab a bite to eat giving him the space to do so without my being present so he could gain no fuel. I come back home, d@mn he’s still there, but had moved himself into the guest room. Ok not what I wanted, but good, I now have the luxury of having the master suite (MS) all to myself. I blocked him on my phone and went complete NC. When he would arrive back home, I, along with my two lil’ dogs, would disappear into the MS, close and lock the door. I wasn’t even going to give him the pleasure of seeing my face, nor the dogs. He was now isolated.

    This same routine went on for about 24-days and then FINALLY in the wee hours of the morning, he packed all his things and departed. I documented it via video (I knew I would need that evidence later), then showered and waited for the bank to open and drained most all funds from the joint financial accounts. Came back home closed all the blinds, made sure all doors/windows were locked and disabled the garage door opener. His only means of getting back in the house.

    I’m sure he had either gone to the bank or was trying on-line to drain the account himself only to find most all of it was gone. Oh, that angered him further, I had beat him to the punch. He shows up at the house in a full-on rage (he had never returned home before during one of his abandonment phases, this was new). As he’s running around the house, cursing the whole way, trying to get in, he can’t. He gets back in his car and started beating the steering wheel with his palms-oh yea he’s furious and yes, I’m recording. He leaves but returns, sprinting to the front door –oh snap he has a key (he had said he didn’t have one-I don’t even have one). I held on tight to the bolt, so he couldn’t turn the key. I had already called the police, am still on the phone with them and shouted through the door, “What do you want.” “He says I want some cloths.” I hollered back, “you already took everything and moved out early this morning.” He screams back, “this is my house you can’t keep me out.” I said, “I’m scared of you right now, you are raging and acting crazy, and I don’t know what you plan to do to me.” I then reveal to him I am on the phone with the police and they are on their way (I’m still recording everything). Ooopsie, he knows he’s raging and wouldn’t be able to compose himself in time and would be exposed for what he is, so he jumps in the car and zips off. The police finally arrive, not one but three, and I make a paper report.

    Bottom line, under HG’s careful tutelage, I was fully prepared and had already made all necessary steps and maneuvers well in advance. I can’t go into full details on what those were/are, as we are now in the beginning stages of divorce. Perhaps/maybe I’ll share once the ink dries on the final divorce papers to help others in the same situation. I can only say to those of you stuck in the same crazy cycle, please, please take heed to all the information HG offers, his advice is invaluable and spot-on. It is an absolute must to be well prepared before exposing your Narc. Things will turn nasty quick.

    Good luck to all and just get out – they are NOT going to change EVER!

    1. Thank you for sharing that SE, one or two elements which could have been improved on, however, overall most effective and you should be commended for what you understood, planned for and executed. You have your emotional thinking under control and it shows.

    2. Super Empath,
      Bravo!!!! I know it took a lot of courage to do what you did-it is not easy.
      Thanks to HG I have been free of my ex narc for 11 months now. Despite HG’s advice I spoke to him a few times, he could not have been more pleasant, until the day he asked me out to diner and I said “No, I am in another relationship” then the mask came off and he showed his furry at the fact that I had moved on with my life.
      In the final analysis, listen to HG everyone-it is not possible to be friendly with an ex narc. they are what they are and it will only be painful for the empathy.
      HG’s advice is always spot on and he is always right on this topic.
      I wish you all the best SE and I know one day you will have all this behind you.
      Take care,

  9. I left my Narc while 9 months pregnant with my 4th child, 25 years ago. Fed up with his lies, cheating, cruelty and going through a devaluation as he was parading his new love in front of me. It was very difficult and required me staying in womens refuges as I had nowhere else to go. Long story short, I have bought my old house that I lost all those years ago. After all this time, my number came up for a hoover which was unsuccessful (behind his current wifes back), so he has turned his attention to my kids. 3 of them won’t have anything to do with him but I’m concerned about my intellectually disabled son – he will believe anything he is told. I’m dumbfounded that he even has the nerve to approach any of us, to top it off. his treatment of us excacerbated the suicide of my schizophrenic brother 25 years ago. Narcs really have no shame whatsoever :/

  10. Hello. I am so glad I found this site. I love your writing style. Please could you answer a question for me? I was discarded about 5 weeks ago after a year-long relationship, most of which was an engagement. He was desperate to move in and I started and paid for house renovations, at which time I discovered he was an alcoholic. He disappeared for a while but there was no devalue and discard. After a few weeks there was love-bombing again and we were back on track, only with the marriage and living together on hold while he attempted to stop drinking. After a lovely weekend away, I was brutally discarded, being told he had to ‘get away from me’ now. I did not expect to hear from him again, not knowing at the time that he was a narcissist. But then there was some covert contact, followed by texts and messages which I answered blandly to put him off. Then just over a week ago he called and said he still loved me, missed me every day, had been offered various dates but nobody matched up to me, etc, etc. I met him twice over last weekend and slept with him both times. He wanted to try again, taking ‘baby steps’, his feelings had never gone away. Then hours after the second meeting, he told me he had been seeing someone else for weeks, still was. He told me her name, job and where they had been away together. He said he had missed me and been confused, but he did ‘not want anything with me again’. I think I understand why he was so cruel (telling me about the other woman when he could have just said he had changed his mind). My question is, why on earth was he texting and messaging across those weeks when he was already with someone else? Why not ignore me until that didn’t work out and then get back in touch again? Thanks in advance for your answer.

    1. Hello Helen, thank you for the kind words about my work.

      1. He has a fuel matrix (see the articles by the same name) which has various appliances in it. You are one of those appliances.
      2. We draw fuel from the appliances at different times and in different ways.
      3. Owing to our sense of entitlement, our lack of accountability and our fuel needs, we readily engage with one person and “tee-up” another or keep in contact with that person. This is part of the fuel matrix and keeping it operating effectively. He was texting you to make sure you were available, he was keeping you “onside” in readiness for drawing on your fuel further if he needed to by seeing you in person and the texting in itself also drew fuel from you.
      4. The need for fuel and keeping you as an appliance “maintained and operational” is why he kept texting you. He did not want to risk losing you or you not being available when he chose to contact you.

      1. Thanks HG. Since I wrote that note, he’s hoovered me 5 times in 6 weeks. I went back each time. The gaps between each hoover and disengagement were 2-5 days each – we have therefore been more on than off. During the first 4 hoovers, he had another woman in the background, firstly definitely with her, then not with her but still in contact.

        The last disengagement was 2 days ago. This time he had ‘properly’ ended it with the other woman and cut contact, and said he wanted to give us a real shot this time. But then he said, for the first time ever (at my questioning), that he wasn’t sure he loved me any more, he feels different now. What does this mean (if anything?). I have read your article about no such thing as a final discard, it’s actually how I found you, otherwise that’s what I would be thinking. Is it just a new tactic?

        Many thanks

        1. His comment is just a manipulation to draw fuel from you and make you try harder to “win him”. Do not fall for it.

          This man is a narcissist. He is manipulating you.

          I recommend you organise a consultation with me as I can see you need one to assist you with what you need to do.

          1. He had already ended it (again) when I asked the question, and I had been trying to win him over already that day. That’s always my tactic when I know it’s going sour, give him lots of fuel, in the hopes he will stay away! I’m happy to have a consultation, how does it work?

          2. An audio one would be the most effective for you. You make payment using the PayPal button (see the menu bar) and then I will contact you to make arrangements. There is more information about the audio consultation in the menu bar of the blog.

  11. I was ghosted after New Years day 2016. Last time I saw him. He was acting strange and I wondered if he cheated from his behavior. I knew him over 30 yrs ago. He married a friend of mine at an young age and has since been divorced and remarried but now divorced for a little over a year aft a 17yr marriage. He has nothing positive to say about any of the women when I would inquire was there anything you liked about them? No response. We dated for over a year but when I started to ask which direction the relationship was going in he accused me more then once of “being pushy” He has property in Hawaii and is there now. I made the mistake of calling him and he did not want to speak to me but told me he did not like my “attitude” before that it was “I did not develop the property like I said I would” Then, it was some money I owed him. Always something different about me I failed to do. Reminded him he was not talking to me so how could I develop the property?? NO RESPONSE. He got off phone with me and told me to say bye 3x. I was so mad I text him some expletives. It will be a year Dec 31st 2017 with no explanation or reason why he won’t speak to me. Is this the longest silent treatment/discard EVER?! I made the dumb mistake of over texting and writing from being angry to forgiving because this is how badly it messed with my head and I am much older and experienced but this was one doozy of a game. The worst of it all was I have been in love with him since I was 16 (he never knew it), and was so happy when I found him. He treated me well but said he never would get married again and sick of 50 yrs of women! I was not pressuring him into marriage but that is the excuse he used and maybe he really was afraid after a recent divorce (rebound). But I am sure he has new supply now. I was so happy and never felt that much joy in my life from being with someone even though I am very independent and have not been in a relationship for several years (by choice). The last thing he said to me on the phone was “I do not want a loving relationship” Last time I saw him in person, he told me, “you’re gonna miss me” Any idea what any of this crap means? Sorry for the length of this post. Oh and age has nothing to do with the game. Hurting people, hurt people.

  12. Would you please clarify the acronyms for me? NISS, IPPS, IPSS. And thank you for the work you do in helping us all understand Narcissists and Narcissism. I have appreciated reading your posts which I have only discovered recently. I’d like to ask another question if I may. Why do we (as ‘victims’) feel the need to stalk our ex Narc when all is said and done. I’m baffled by this weird phenomenon.

    1. Non intimate secondary source, intimate partner primary source and intimate partner secondary source. Please see the article Always Watching to answer your question

  13. Thank you, HG. Can you elaborate on types of relationships where this is possible? I am missing a component in the formula to fully accept that I am dealing with narc. For 5 years together I have never experienced any signs of my partner looking for another supply, cheating or being dishonest. Is it possible in narc’s scenario?

        1. I know why you are asking Lori, but don’t get your hopes up.

          A narcissist will be faithful to a person in a social, familial or work relationship (NISS) in that they will usually grant those individuals elongated golden periods.
          A narcissist will be faithful to the IPPS during the golden period.
          You may get a Cerebral or Victim Narcissist who will not be physically unfaithful to an IPPS or IPSS even during devaluation but they will sext, flirt online and be emotionally, financially and intellectually unfaithful.

        1. During the golden period yes. Thereafter, for most narcissists, no – you may find a victim narcissist who is faithful.

  14. Hi HG
    So if a narc is getting older and also has Llosa much of his wealth does that impede his ability to seduce? Thank you sir😊

      1. True HG, but since they love to impress and exaggerate what they are and what they have (not you, of course) I would think that showing how much they were worth was important.
        My ex always talked about making it big again, not in the millions but billions. I was always surprised at how unrealistic it sounded not just to me but to anyone listening. I wonder, do they really believe what they are saying?
        Thanks as always for a great article.

  15. How bad of a narcissistic injury would be caused if you are just ruthless with the narc once you’ve figured out as far as them not changing and being a lying worthless cheater, then you have sex with them and tell her something like, “finally I got something I wanted, it’s too bad I have to go through so much to get a little from you when you give it away so easily to whoever else wants it.” Then, you catch them talking to their next target on the phone, wait until they leave the room, then let the new target have it, meaning you ask them does it feel good to break up a happy home. Then, the narc calls you like a coward to discard you but you flip it on them with pure rage because you’re tired of their nonsense and tell them you never want to see or talk to them again. Then, they come back to try to throw it in your face they’re with a new target but you just take a huge dump on them to tell them how worthless and slutty they are, you don’t care, you don’t want them anyway, the loser they’re with can have them, etc… And, the final time you talk with them on the phone you once again but much more brutally tell them you don’t ever want to talk to or see them again. Would that cause a pretty bad narcissist injury to them?

    The Narc ended up marrying a child molester the same year. I feel bad I might have had something to do with that because of just how brutally I discarded them, pulled the old switcharoo on them. I don’t think they actually wanted to break up the when they called to break up with me so much as they just wanted me to beg them to stay with them. lol Yea right, they were cheating and thought I would beg them to stay again, no, I’d had enough. Probably not though, they knew I knew what was happening, they probably didn’t want to put the effort in to try to lie to me because they knew it wouldn’t work anyway, but they did pause right after they finished their weak emotionless breakup script as if they were waiting for me to start begging or something. They didn’t last long with the child molester, like 2 years, then he went to prison for raping a little girl.

  16. Thankyou ….. my question is about money … my ex husband set up the money in a way that I have ended up now having to work for the rest of my life to pay my mortgage … I have been deeply hurt and he set things up in a way that my children ( not our children ) friends etc see me as a broken weak idiot … they ( my children ) see him as someone who does not care about me at all and I am an idiot to be broken financially , emotionally etc etc .. He now works with my brothers company … he some how has come out wealthy , with an amazing job and pay and I look like an idiot … I have started to learn about N and read about the control , twisting truth to others etc … but I have not read much about money … is it known for N .to destroy their wife’s money ? I think he did that so he could justify to my brother that I was bad with money ? so he would keep his job even though he screwed his boss,s sister over ? I am so confused . he even got me to sell things which did not add value to his money but maybe to make me look bad with finance ? do you know if destroying a wife,s finances so the N becomes wealthy and she looks bad with money is a part of being a N …. or would he have done it to be even more destructive ? have some evil pleasure knowing I was set up financially forever but now I am not . do N feel important knowing they have caused destruction or are they known for stealing ? but making me look bad with money so he doesn’t look like he stole mine ? thankyou

    1. Yes money is another tool of manipulation. Your resources are our resources and this of course includes money. Not only will we use our financial muscle to seduce you, we will then use it to devalue you which will include not supporting you, painting a picture of your being useless with money, a gold-digger or profligate. We will steal, siphon funds away, divert profits, hide assets, asset strip and so forth since we have such a sense of entitlement and no concept of accountability.

  17. @HG, 1) if someone sees through you quite quickly (few days to a week) would you respect them more than an ‘easier target’ who might take months or years? 2) could N’s have a relationship where everything is out in the open? (knowing who you really are and being able to deal with it, without wearing the mask)

    1. Why would you want to be with someone who is going to be continually cheating on you and emotionally abusing you? Even if the so-called “mask” is off, those behaviour patterns are not ever going to go away – that is why these people are considered mentally ill. They are NEVER going to change. It’s who they are. They can’t love. They can only hate.

  18. I found your article incredibly interesting.

    I was duped by a N for 2.5 years; question everything that didn’t make sense but still accepted his responses, choosing to believe him. I found out by thorough investigation he had a girlfriend for 4 years and I exposed our relationship to her. I have grown on a lot of knowledge about him now! Would you consider it safe to say this outing would eradicate me as a supply source?

    1. It would be likely to lead to dis-engagement with you and would, subject to other considerations, act as a raising of the bar on the Hoover Execution Criteria but it would not eradicate you as a fuel source forever.

  19. H.G.
    Per usual, great article. As you explained in #1, I, without knowing as much as I do now, 10 books later, I stopped letting him push my buttons because It is not in my nature to argue and by defending myself attach him back. I always felt sick afterwards, which of course he new. I ended up by saying, “No matter what you say or do, I will not argue with you” He then pressed harder and would resuscitate some event from 10 years ago that I did. I would say to him, do you really want to go to the past, do you really want to go there? He would stop and viola, silent treatment. This worked 8 out of 10 times. The other two times I would react. Question. . . Is knowing, as you state above, that there will be very limited Negative fuel a red flag for those of your kind? Also, on a different note, when will your book: Little boy lost and Matriarch be coming out?
    Thank again.

  20. I love each and every one of your articles and I have downloaded almost all of your books. My narc husband and I (I’m a BPD) have been really beating each other up for years. I was unaware of my real issues, not sure if he actually knows or if he and I have been together for so long that he never let me see him all the way like this last time.

    I never admit to anything being my fault, however I will admit to this last one being at least half of mine.

    After a major insult, from me, and he has the stupid (never used before) silent treatment, in which every time I get him to open back up (even if it is evilish) I do something else that shuts him back down.

    How can I tell if this is the real discard? He has some new person but she will never be me and he knows it. I love his entire package we are just really doing some serious damage to each other (or have this past year) and it is making him look elsewhere.

    Tell me how to be aware of a full discard.

  21. HG, your blog is amazing. I recently encountered a mid-range narc (disappointing really; I figured a well-off, very educated executive would be a greater, not a mid-range): a whirlwind “romance” that was amazing for the first two weeks with his love bombing, then he subtly started shifting/changing – little periods of no text response (at first a couple hours, then four, then eight); odd little texts that seemed slightly out of context; slight changes in behaviour (arriving later and later, complimenting a bit less, not as attentive); etc… I did react exactly as he wanted at first, but this didn’t last. I questioned his tactics within a couple days – he mistook me as being unarmed, and much more vulnerable than I really am.

    My long-term ex is a greater narc. He was a very upstanding citizen of the community; had entire well-respected organizations fooled, not just me. He pushed too far however, and he was his own undoing in the end. I’ve been no contact with him for four years now. He was MY undoing. It took me the four years to rid myself of his machinations and the resulting effects. He was patient, cautious, clever and subtle. This new one however, is a mid-range, and I could see the impulsiveness – no finesse in playing the long game, impatient, but just different enough to initially throw me off guard – and I questioned him blankly, with no emotion. He had a hard time giving me answers when I approached with logic, instead of emotion. When I confronted him about his disappearing at Christmas (no surprise, I see now) and then a day later about him being caught with another woman at Christmas (again, no surprise) – and I didn’t act emotionally, he didn’t quite discard me, but put me on pause. This did shock me, and he got the fuel he needed as I started to waiver and cry. (I think it was a pause: I’m hoping it was a discard.) It’s been only four days and I know he thinks I’m sitting her crying and pining for him. By ignoring me however, it was the BEST thing he could have done. I shook my head, wizened up, and the very next day, unbeknownst to him, he was on “no contact”. I feel great. I don’t miss him. I don’t look for texts. I just don’t care. If he does come out of the woodwork, he’s going to be surprised as the “no contact” will hold. But, I’m glad he came into my life because he alerted me to your blog. Your writings have been completely eye opening and have provided so many answers about my greater narc that I never thought I would get, which has provided me with closure. I thank you greatly for that!

    1. I, too, am grateful for all the discoveries. Probably best relationship I ever have had cuz I learned so much from it. Now I can look 4ward to true unconditional mutual love some day.

  22. Hi, well written Sir.
    I have been abused by a NPD for 1 year. They have discarded me and now the problem is after 5 months I am still unable to connect with anyone. Hav I myself become an NPD???

    1. Thank you ABN. No this will not make you somebody with NPD. Far more likely is that you are suffering from PTSD. You may wish to see a medical professional.

  23. I had a fight with my Narc less than a week, it’s the second time he pushed me away, first time was I said he sounds like different people as before. This time, I told him if he did something would hurt me, but he still did it and laugh at me. I gave him no contact and broke it. I told him about he never listens, he said he will listen and he will leave me alone, quoted from my own blog. I was so angry that I posted something there. I asked him whether he wanted me to leave him, he said no. so what does this mean? They never say what they mean. is this a silent treatment or new supply coming? Thanks!

    1. He doesn’t want you to leave him. You have tried to escape him. He does not want that. He wants to keep a hold of you, hence why he has behaved as he has.

  24. Thank you for writing this. I’ve gone no contact and now he’s destroying my reputation at work. He’s told me so many things about other people that we could both go on a revenge rampage and destroy each other at work. I don’t want that to happen but I want him to stop spreading rumors. Do you have suggestions on how to handle this? I no longer speak to him but he knows that if I’m antagonized I will retaliate. I no longer care if we both go down.

  25. this is the best blog ! It helps me sooo much.
    @HD you write “We do not tell you the real reasons why we chose you but we do provide you with some.” What are the reasons why you choose us? I think it is because we are so weak and emotional and therefore easy to manipulate/use. I think it is not always about the looks as I was having awful skin problems and gained a little bit weight when I met my ex. I mean I do look okay but I was always wondering why he felt attracted to me. I think he was not attracted to me at all he just saw an unsure person and knew I would be easy to get. The other reason was also because a friend of him was interested in me…I think narcissist love to have something someone else wants even if they are not really attracted to the person…
    I also think the other reasons have nothing to do with us, because we have no real value as persons to them, so they might just choose the next person around, the easiest and quickest way to get new fuel. As soon as they realize that you are interested they are kind of into it. I always had the feeling my ex was even a little bit bored when we got together.

    1. Hello Roxfr and thank you for your kind comment. We choose you for the fuel you will provide us, the character traits we can use for our construct and residual benefits. We choose you based on the empathic traits, class traits and special traits. To understand more about that do read Sitting Target, it is all in there.

  26. this is the best blog ! It helps me sooo much.
    @HD you write “We do not tell you the real reasons why we chose you but we do provide you with some.” What are the reasons why you choose us? I think it is because we are so weak and emotional and therefore easy to manipulate. I think it is not always about the looks as I was having awful skin problems and gained a little bit weight when I met my ex. I mean I do look okay but I was always wondering why he felt attracted to me, and I think it was also because I was so unsure at that time, and also because a friend of him was interested in me…I think narcissist love to have something someone else wants even if they are not really attracted to the person…

  27. this is the best blog ! It helps me sooo much.
    @HD you write “We do not tell you the real reasons why we chose you but we do provide you with some.” What are the reasons why you choose us? I think it is because we are so weak and emotional and therefore easy to manipulate. I think it is not always about the looks as I was having awful skin problems when I met my ex. I was always wondering why he felt attracted to me, and I think it was also because I was so unsure at that time, and also because a friend of him was interested in me…I think narcissist love to have something someone else wants even if they are not really attracted to the person…

  28. Bloody Brilliant! Thank you for sharing the insides and outs. (and explaining that wicked break-up 😉 ) A good read actually – do you have any books published? Maybe even a steamy novel. I do have a question since these people exist and we do have to share the planet with them (or as they would say, “them with us”) is it possible to bring out the best in the narc and get what you want as well and live in harmony without being a food supply that is suckered dry to the vampy creatures? Do you know of any books on that topic? Because they can make great bosses and leaders (speaking from having bosses like that) I also have another question, can they realize they are Adonis or are they truly trapped in their own world forever to stay there? Thank you again for the great read, very helpful and look forward to reading other topics on this page as well. Very informative.

    1. Hello Long Beach, thank you. Yes I have over 40 books published which you can find on amazon here
      All various topics are covered.
      As for steamy novels, I have some plans in that direction as a consequence of what people have asked me but in the meanwhile Seduction and Ensnared will give you a taster in that direction.
      You can see the better qualities of our kind, yes, but there is a substantial price to pay. You cannot remain around us without having to make significant compromises on your part.
      Some of our kind have little going for them and it is all imagined, others of us do have many talents but we still exaggerate them nevertheless. I am pleased you have found my work informative and hope you continue to contribute.

  29. Hi I’d been with my n partner for nearly 3yrs. Not knowing at first what he was but noticing things weren’t right. I started to do a lot of reading on narcassists/sociapaths and started realising he ticked nearly every box. The constant vileness what I was subjected to was to much to bare and everything I done was wrong. I made it clear I knew what he was and last straw was when he was in a rage I told him to leave my house after many attempts previous he always refused to leave keeping me in fear. He was constantly saying “when I leave you” then when he was OK with me he would say “I’m not going anywhere” I couldn’t carry on like this so enough was enough!! He left but I’ve heard a couple of times since but it’s just mind games so I’m going “no contact” do you think I was on discard? But me asking him to leave first must have been a bitter blow for him. Do u think his trying to hoover me back so he can get final discard in? May I say I love this man very much still :-(.

    1. Hello KK, whether he hoovers or not will not be about getting a discard in against you, it will be about fuel. I suspect he is subjecting you to a silent treatment borne out of your criticism of him through telling him to leave. Use this hiatus to establish your no contact and build your defences as he will hoover you if there is a trigger and the execution criteria are met. You have a headstart available so make the most of it.

  30. I brought my A game everytime he acted incorrectly towards me. Nothing he did upset me, got me to chase or weaken. He tried every angle he could and when he realized none of them would work rage and then his disappearance always followed. I’m hoping he’s finally realized it’s pointless to try to come back. I just have this odd feeling he’s going to try again which I’m upset with myself for not being able to ignore the feeling, not care and accept that it won’t matter even if he does because it’s out of my control.

    1. Hello Reversed, you are right and you are wrong. You are right that you can enter the sixth sphere of influence without doing anything which may trigger a hoover. You are wrong because there are many things you can do to minimise the likelihood of the hoover being executed and if it is, to minimise it being effective in any way.

  31. Wow! Thank you HG you just cleared up a mistery. Number 2. Struck me. That sickness that you feel I had very twisted and confused with guilt and remorse. I now see it as very diffrent and as you describe, remorse. I can not wrap my head around the fact your so connected and aware of what’s connected to emotion and how it should feel and yet you feel none of them. I am so unaware of them because I have kept so busy my whole life I never needed to understand why I could not feel anything within me. If I even stopped to think I was afraid of what might happen. I could feel others pain so I thought I was normal. If I was criticized I felt the sickness. I never felt anything I did to others. Worse I was always puzzled why what I did was such a big deal. I can see it all now. I was a horrible wife. I regret many of my actions. Luckily I was truly forgiven. this has taught me what forgiveness is so I can start on my mother.
    number 3. Also very interesting and your nature vs nature thought? Maternal grandparents, if grandmother had no personality disorder and I am not sure of maternal grandfather. Was your mother a narc. Product of nature or nuture then? Assume as it looks now there was no personality disorder on maternal side prior to mom, do you no what happened there? It seems obvious the generation took a turn in your mothers generation. So was this 2 just inherited genes from 2 people or was there a parenting issue?

    1. One can understand something without feeling it. I make it my job to understand because then I become a more effective unit. I do not need to feel. Most feelings create weakness and hinder.
      My mother is MatriNarc, her father was most likely the cause of her behaviour. I believe from the work with the good doctors it relates to upbringing rather than genetics.

  32. I’d like to pose a question if I can about discard and devaluation.
    I will try to be concise.
    As to be expected, I was discarded suddenly after a short, intense love bombing period. As I had not encountered or did not know about narcissists before, this was shocking and traumatic, particularly as just weeks before it had seemed or been implied that the Narc was falling in love with me.
    I literally felt sick like the wind had been punched out of me. Not understanding what had happened. The next day, I freaked out, as in felt desperate, was calling and texting (but being ignored), which in turn made me feel more desperate and ashamed. I even called from a different number.
    Fast forward, and a hoover or two later, I’ve been relegated to secondary supply; a ‘friend’ but not a friend to have sex with, a sort of murky enmeshed emotional ‘girlfriend’. However, I still wanted a relationship.
    The narc said, ‘I would never be in a relationship with you’, and then went on to say that this decision specifically hinged on the fact that on that day I had been calling and texting him desperately.
    Of course, I felt like I had failed, it’s my fault, bitterly regreted what I’d done, ‘if only I’d handled it better’ and other such torturous thoughts. I have looked back on that day and thought ‘why did I do that?’. It has felt hard to take the full blame, I felt that there were something wrong with me.
    Elsewhere in one of your books you wrote something along the lines of, ‘stop analysing the situation, you got involved with a narcissist…end of story’.
    My question is: so the Narc says to me, the reason he won’t be in a relationship with me is because of my behaviour on that day. But…could it be that he is a narcissist? And he is fickle. And he says meaningless things to shift blame or to hurt me, or to see what my reaction is? Or he wants to make me the ‘wrong’ one? Could it actually be that I wasn’t ‘wrong’ on that day? That I was acting out of stunned desperation in response to a discard which I didn’t know about? That in fact, the Narc had conditioned me, (as he has others)? That he knew that my response would be desperate? That, in fact, part of him wanted the desperate reaction? Do Narcs just like rubbing salt in the wounds?
    Can I disbelieve him, in terms, of he says anything to put the blame for the impossibility of a relationship onto me? Therefore, what he says is just not true. Turned out to be a longer post than I meant. Thank you for reading, if you do.

    1. Hello Gem, your reaction is one which has happened millions of times and will happen millions more.
      1. You are love-bombed. You fall in love. This is the desired response. Yours is an understandable and predictable response.
      2. The golden period ends. From YOUR perspective there is no valid reason. This is deliberate. If there was a valid reason you could accept (or find it easier to accept) what has happened. This will allow you to move on. You are not given a valid reason so you keep asking “why?” and therefore you remain stuck.
      3. You keep asking the narcissist but get no proper answers. Any answers given just do not make sense in your case this was saying you handled the situation badly. Your response of calling and texting is an entirely understandable response. You do not understand what is going on and therefore you want to get in contact with the narcissist to find out what is happening.
      4. This situation is engineered. Firstly it results in the provision of fuel. Secondly it allows the narcissist to blame-shift by saying as you found out, “Your reaction caused the problem.” No it did not. You acted as you wrote out of stunned desperation in a predictable and intended manner. You were conditioned. You responded as anybody empathic would and we count on this. We create the reaction and then blame you for having it.
      5. He will project and blame shift repeatedly. It was not your fault. It never is. We make it your fault though to serve our purposes. Have a read of Manipulated and Your Fault.

      1. Thank you Mr. Tudor for your lengthy and considered response. (I realised I have posed this same question on a different blog post, as I thought I had lost this one, please ignore the second one).
        It really does help me to keep moving forward, (I am over 18 months minimal and complete NC), and also to have my intuition and feelings validated straight from the mouth of a narcissist no less!
        As you wrote in your, ‘questions answered’ book, it is these unanswered questions that snag and hook in the mind, the wanting to know, ‘why?’, that seems to keep one psychically, if not physically, attached to the narcissist. This seems to create a lack of resolution, this makes it difficult, at times, to move forward. As you have written, this is the desired outcome of the Narc’s machinations.
        I am grateful to have it confirmed that i was the one behaving in the expected and ‘normal’, (if there is such a thing), manner.
        I do have another question but I will leave it for another day, as I have asked quite a few.

    2. Gem,
      I’m a little late to the party here, but I could write a book on everything my narcissist told me wouldn’t happen because of something I did- something normal in my eyes, blasphemy in his.
      For instance, he told me he could never trust me again because in the beginning of our relationship, when I thought he held the same feelings for me as I did him, I told another woman (the woman I now understand he was triangulating) to keep her distance because there was something going on between us. I basically told her he was cheating on me with her… I didn’t know he was physically cheating, but she sure as hell had an idea. And looking back, I’m sure he was.
      Isn’t that something? I became unworthy of his trust because of HIS cheating.. nonsense.
      He eventually “trusted” me again over the course of the next 2.5 years. But still used a twin line – “I would have done ____” or “I was going to do ___.” This last time, I told him if I waited around for him to do ____, I’d be dead before it happened.

      I wouldn’t be surprised if your narcissist’s initials are CLG.

    3. Mine did the same with the harassment and police threats. I would panic and cry. Now, I know what’s going on. He tried the grand Hoover exactly a year later to the day. Thank HG for the books and blogs…wish I had read more of the blogs. But, I didn’t go back….and for not wanting him, I was threatened with a restraining order. Just like the woman before me got. You never get a straight answer…I would find after his blatant lies that I would be apologizing to him. There’s no amicable way out. You’re with them, putting up with lots in a crazy relationship or you’re discarded. He knows I’ve figured him out…he immediately started lining up others while devaluing me and the second she was in place, he went silent. The closest he’s ever come to owning anything h
      Is he calls finding someone new “survival”. Ugh. I’m out and never going back but no closure makes it hard to stop ruminating on it…even though I know that’s What he wants. I feel like there’s no closure so he can come back if things don’t work out with new girl. Any suggestions welcome. Happy New Year‼

      1. Ruminating . . . HG, what causes this . . . Does he have some telepathic ability to brainwash me? And how does he show up in public where Ive never gone before at that exact moment in time? Or is the problem my own? Obsessive thinking . . . it wont stop. Plus I have nightmares about his about once a week. He’s intruded into my dreams, my mind . . .

    1. Two ways. If you do not provide us with fuel. Also if you criticise us (in an unemotional manner otherwise it is fuel). Have a read of Fury for more Cat Of Nine Tales.

      1. Every time I ‘criticised’ i.e disagreed with, was neutral or unemotional, contradicted or questioned…the narc would accuse me of harassment or say he was calling the police and tell me not to contact him! So he didn’t seem ‘hurt’ as such. But, the reality is, the perceived transgression was so slight. It wasn’t even criticism, just me having my own mind. I realised that I was not allowed to have a voice or any equality in the ‘relationship’. How can one have a relationship on these terms?!

      2. TEACH US HOW TO NOT FEEL. HOW NOT TO BE EMOTIONAL. I hear you but cannot compute. It would be like teaching someone to roll their tongues or wiggle their ears. ITS SO HARD. Scratch that. IMpossible not to feel or be emotional. Working this out is a beast. Ok. Feel and have emotions. Behave as if not (which feels like acting and fake) and there is nothing I pride myself more on than being authentic and HATE in others (fakeness – my mother is the ultimate faker and ginormously successful at it). Maybe that’s why all this while I thought my narc (and all the rest) deep down inside felt as deeply as I do. They were just imposters. And it tortured me to no end. Their lack of and my overage of “emotion.” I don’t want to be like “them” yet I am over here in a pile of goo wondering what the f why can’t I be like “them”. And just an hour ago I was worried — omg — maybe I am a narc. Because clearly it’s all about me me me. I am here reading for ME. And feel guilty. Ikr. Weird. Do empaths often question themselves and think maybe it IS me? Good god.

        1. Empaths repeatedly question themselves owing to the trait of self-flagellation. You also question yourselves because of the way we treat you, so your critical evaluation and self-worth is eroded.

  33. HG, can you be of “the lesser kind” but be a severe narcissist? Mine is not very intelligent, has no idea what he is, but he is so severe in his traits.

    1. Hello Narcaddict, I do not categorise someone as severe, the fact that he is a narcissist to begin with suggests that his narcissistic traits are rather severe to begin with. I note he has no awareness and is low-functioning which points to him being a Lesser Narcissist, what are the other traits that you see as severe, perhaps you could expand?

  34. Hi HG

    Very detailed thank you. A question for you. First as you can imagine as my own layers are being folded back I am struggling with my creature more so then ever before. My explosiveness is embarrassing and so childish. It’s knee jerking for me and when this creatures head pokes out it it gets out watch out. I am working ever so hard in therapy and it can be learned to be delt with.
    1. Do you feel that all your planning for fuel and the way you operate is stuffing your feelings down. they do not rise to the surface were they then need to be delt with? I have a very active mind like you it can’t stop. I just wonder if that construction site you have built in your mind, stuffs any emotion. Are you aware that the creature your running from is your Pandora box of emotions trapped. I just figured this out.

    2. I can understand how seeing us once we no who you really are, would make you sick. Is it possible that sickness, that I believe may be what you felt when your mom was on your case, how you really feel about what your have done to us?

    3. Last burning question. Because it’s a missing piece in my life. You have traced 3 solid generations of narcs. Your maternal grandmother was not. Did she suffer a personality disorder?

    1. Hello SII,

      1. I think that a combination of keeping a racing mind occupied and also the provision of fuel acts in tandem to keep the creature at bay.

      2. If I was to see somebody who understood what I was the only way it would affect me would be if they provided no fuel and/or criticised me in a manner which caused wounding. Otherwise it would not make me feel “sick”. The sickness is now what I really feel about the things I have done because I have no concept of guilt or remorse.

      3. Not that I am aware of no.

  35. How painful this sounds… It makes me even fearful to read this… Not even all the mindfullness in the world would stop pain and fear in an unhealthy way when thinking longer than a one second on this..
    Neverthless as always and everything that you write.. Its excelent, assertive, educational.. 😘

  36. Oh im not even going to bother reading or writing into this blog again. Whats the point since u only post and respond to the same old followers every time no matter how insignificant their msg is. Typical narc behavior anyway! I hope u realise by doing so it appears as tho u only have about 7 followers. Not so intelligent after all !! Also in ur section of private msg it says ” typicaly replies within a few hours”. Haha yea ok, if u say so!!

    1. Hello Jewels, I think I am going to have to call you Rough Diamond after that little outburst. In case you didn’t know I have other matters to attend to as well as responding to people’s questions, which are of course always welcome and of interest to me. From time to time a backlog will happen. I read every post that is sent to me and where people ask for an answer they get one. Sometime I allow posts through which are more recently posted because there is no question for me to address or it might be answering someone else and if it is short in nature. They get posted as I deal with the longer posts and also those with questions. I answered your two questions yesterday but if you have flounced then you won’t know that. Yes just seven followers they have done some serious clicking to enable me to hit over a million hits in under a year. If you want a competition on intelligence I would be delighted to face off with you.

      1. Well said. I do have a question? Since I was sexually assaulted by my N, is this common behavior during the discard stage? Becuz he told me he had a new ‘girlfriend’s . . . my friends tell me to go to the police. Is this type of behavior common amongst narcs, hypothetically speaking of course.

        1. Sexual assault is but one form of manipulation and will be committed by some narcissists when you are devalued or as part of a malign hoover.

    2. He responded…have not been to that section. I am guilty of doing the same when an answer isn’t prompt. HG has so much to offer. I’m NOT kissing his ass. He has taught tons.

      1. It happened to me too, Anonymous – I was nine months pregnant and couldn’t stand or walk after! He left me like that to go back to his new “love” I reported it to the police even though he didn’t get into any trouble. He convinced them that you can’t “rape” your wife. But I would encourage you to still report the incident to the police.

    3. LOL is this Claudia? How sad you feel the need to burst out in this manner. The only person who has no intelligence is you.
      He has followers that come and go but will return for reference and further knowledge.
      If you are going to come and play in this arena, you better be well equipt and one more word of advice, do not insult HG or his followers. We are a fierce group.

    4. Jewels,
      HG has many followers and as he states he always responds. I know I speak for many of us who are soooooooooo grateful that HG is offering us this service on his blog and takes the time from his busy schedule to respond. Maybe what you need is a personal consultation with HG, there you will get his undivided attention. I have had about 7 consultations with HG and his one on one attention is priceless.
      All the best!

  37. You never discarded her; you discarded me. You disengaged me til you wanted and til you want more. I discarded you way before though. Why do we need to continue this tete a tete? Why can’t we just be together in harmony? Better yet, let’s let the guard down (of course we won’t) This is a serious question. You may laugh. I’m sure you hate me bc we are alike. We are outer shells. She sees the good in the real you.

  38. Is this how narcs will live for the rest of their lives?
    Experiencing this turmoil with a narc I deeply loved was traumatic enough for me. Yet I also sensed it was traumatic for him too.
    This insatiable appetite for fuel is a never ending cycle.
    Will you ever stop? Will my ex ever stop?

      1. Because it seemed to take so much out of him mentally. And because it was a cycle of devalue-discard-value-devalue-discard- value…. the energy, lies, running around, memorising lies, keeping up with fabricated stories. My ex always seemed tormented, exhausted and deeply unhappy. I knew there was always something he was searching for. He was never content, never stable.

        Every fix, new and old, could not satisfy his addiction to God knows what . I think even he didn’t know what he wanted.

        1. Yes those who are Lesser/Mid-Range can find the situation taxing if they have not honed their skills in terms of supply. There is also the volatility which affects them as well so that they explode (Lessers mainly with heated fury, Mid-Range with cold fury) so they essentially bugger up their own fuel lines. Not a problem that we Greaters experience but you describe it well Ami.

      2. HG along these same lines…I often felt my mid-ranger shot himself in the foot with his attempted manipulations. IE. would harp on about something and make me act the opposite of what he wanted in the end, then of course would erupt in cold fury. Is that typical of mid-ranger as opposed to a greater?

      3. Could that dynamic also be seen with SuperEmpath vs. Greater? I thank you in advance for all my questions today.

    1. I feel the same. I firmly believe he is tired of chasing but knows no other way. God knows you can’t actually talk to them about any of it. The heartbreak is hard but I have such a deep sadness for him as he is my friend. Watching a friend

    2. Yes, this is the way they will live the rest of their lives. That is the very sad component of the person with NPD. It is traumatic for them. They frequently self medicate, and exhaust what little financial resource they have constantly looking for new fuel.

  39. I may have asked this before, but does it seem that an N targets a certain type of person, one who’s possibly more fragile emotionally, one who’s insecure & desperately needs to be in a relationship? Clearly I could be completely wrong, I just happen to know of one N in particular who is smart, intellectually, but clueless socially. He continually ‘love bombs’ and chases women who make it obvious that they’re bi-polar, or extremely needy/desperate, who reveal too much personal information on social media.. women who most people who look at and say, ‘they’re a train wreck”, but an easy target to be used, and the types that are going to jump into bed w/ them the moment they’re given ANY attention. This isn’t to insult anyone, it’s the one example that I’ve watched play out on several women by a particular N, that I know, over and over again. It’s almost like he’s ‘attracted’ to those who are not playing w/ a full deck, then he discards, then mass hysteria ensues on social media by the girl who’s discarded. You’d think by now some of these women would’ve witnessed enough publicly to know to avoid him, but there always seems to be a new ‘victim’, never a classy, mature, hard to get type, but always the same emotionally manic, histrionic type (you’d think he’d know by now he’s going to be ‘slandered’, though he deserves it, but you’d think it would teach him to grow up, mature, seek help, etc.) My point, are N’s naturally attracted to lots of immature, relationally dramatic peeps.. is there some kind of ‘high’ in it for them?

    1. Hello Kris, absolutely the case. These are low-hanging fruit and those people regarded as “damaged” prove to be succulent targets for our kind. If you haven’t already, read Sitting Target and you will learn more about this.

      1. Hello. Just so I don’t take offense, are there other characteristics of the victim? I’m a independent, intelligent, self-sufficient, ambitious, and well rounded individual. I’m also nurturing and supportive. I don’t have low self-esteem and I’m extremely picky. I had a brief 3 month relationship with someone whom i believe whole-heartedly to be a narcissist. I started picking up red flags with him when i started to second guess myself. I did everything and he made me feel as if my best wasn’t good enough. The harder i tried the worse it got until ii started pushing back. I started calling him out and i believe that’s when i stoppex being useful to him.

    2. No, I don’t think they do!
      I am a strong independent woman, very confident, out going, happy go lucky type of person and still, he got me! I have never felt soo hurt in all my ĺife……18 months later and constantly reading facts and blogs, I still can’t get him out of my mind 🙁

      1. I just got out of an 18 month relationship with a narc 2 weeks ago. Im crushed. Did your narc ever try to come back at all during these months? Have you had strength to move on a at all?

      2. Jane,

        I’m right there with you. I was with him less than 4 months and I still feel the same. I discarded him first, completely ignored him. He didn’t take it too well and it ended abruptly and ugly. It’s been about 16 months of no contact. He’s never made an attempt to contact me. People say they always come back, but I don’t ever think he will….not that that is a bad thing.

    3. I think the quality of supply matters too. Just like us, they’ll settle for what’s easily available during a dry spell, but they prefer better. Predators do tend to seek out the weak, but only because the target is easier, not better.

    4. What are you talking about. Of course they seek out easy dime a dozen let me show you how much I like you and use you like a toy till something better comes along and no worries if it dont work out I got plenty on the back burner….

    5. We’re easy . . . needy . . . in my case I have borderline personality disorder . . . when I met n, I had just moved to town, going through a divorce, lonely, no family or friends. I learned DON’T tell someone too much about yourself until you know them set boundaries.

    6. They are easy targets. The N need not invest a lot of time. A and he can plasy them, manipulate them sdo easily. My ex pursued me becuz I was successful and not easy. But ther majority of his other fuel targets were easily ensnared.

      1. Thank you ….n knowing you hurt the only one that saw the best in you…n instead of trying to be a better man?
        So much easier to exploit n destroy than step up…n be a decent human being…..

      2. Keep coming back. I learn from you. The truth is comforting. I am at step 5. My ex is on the run. His fuel was sex. During my devaluation stage he sexually assaulted me. Despite my wishing up, I never dreamed he would hurt me that badly.

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