Perfect Sense

 

 

 Image result for lots of question marks

“Why do you spend so much time looking at porn?”

“I don’t.”

“Yes you do.”

“No I don’t.”

“Yes you do. I know you do.”

“No you don’t know, you don’t know me at all, that’s part of the problem, if you took some time to know me, you would understand.”

“What’s that supposed to mean?”

“Oh that’s right, pretend you do not know what I am talking about. Absolutely typical. It is any wonder I get so pissed off with you?”

“I don’t know what you are talking about.”

“There you go again.”

“What are you on about?”

“Look, repeating it won’t make it any different. You always do this when you are in the wrong.”

“Hang on, me in the wrong? We were talking about you and your massive porn addiction.”

“Only because you are trying to deflect from what is really going on.”

“No I am not.”

“You just did it again.”

“No I didn’t.”

“Yes you did. Every time I try and point something out to you, you do this, you will never accept you are at fault. You always try to blame me. It is unfair and quite frankly troubling.”

“Wait, wait, this is all wrong.”

“You’re telling me.”

“Sorry?”

“At last an apology.”

“No, I wasn’t apologising.”

“No I should have known shouldn’t I? You don’t do apologies do you, you are so holier than thou, always so bloody right. Jesus, I suppose your crap doesn’t stink either does it?”

“There’s no need to be like that.”

“Like what?”

“Like that, crude and vulgar.”

“I was just expressing myself.”

“You don’t have to do it like that.”

“Oh so now I am not allowed to voice an opinion.”

“I didn’t say that. Stop twisting things.”

“Ha, you have some cheek haven’t you, accusing me of twisting things? You do it all the time.”

“When? When have I ever done that?”

“Last week, you tried to make to make out that I was at fault for staying out.”

“Staying out when?”

“Last week.”

“I know, but which day?”

“It was night.”

“Sorry, I mean which night?”

“Blimey, another sorry, mind you, you probably didn’t mean that one either did you?”

“Will you stop doing that?”

“Doing what?”

“Twisting things around, making out I am saying things when I am not.”

“But you are.”

“No I am not; you are putting words in my mouth.”

“You did say sorry just then.”

“Yes I know, but it wasn’t an apology….”

“Oh I know that; I have learned better than to expect you to be sorry for the way you treat me.”

“Why are you saying that? Look, please, just stop for a minute, I want to talk to you, have a sensible conversation.”

“Are you saying I cannot have a sensible conversation? Oh that is just charming. I am not the one getting worked up and…”

“Please stop it.”

“Have you heard yourself? You keep cutting across me and now you are telling me when I can and cannot speak.”

“No I am not.”

“Another denial. I swear you forget what you have just said or are you doing it on purpose? Trying to mess with my head are you? That is just sick.”

“Me mess with your head. Jesus Christs! You are the king of the head fuckers!”

“Here she goes, it is all coming out now, she cannot have a normal conversation, oh no, she has to be always right, always high and mighty, she cannot do anything wrong can she?”

“Look, let’s stop this.”

“Well you started it and now when I defend myself you cannot hack it.”

“You are making this about something else.”

“No that’s your tactic.”

“No it is not.”

“It is, you start talking about something and then you turn it into an attack against me.”

“I just wanted to discuss your porn addiction.”

“No you didn’t, you want to wind me up, make me angry and when it doesn’t work you keep on and on at me.”

“No, please, I am just trying to talk to you about something important, I cannot stand it when this happens.”

“When what happens?”

“This.”

“What are you on about?”

“Oh God, it is so frustrating, why won’t you just shut up for five minutes and listen to me, is that too much to ask?”

“Why on earth should I when you talk to me like that?”

“Sorry, sorry, I am just….look, please,”

“Now you are not making any sense.”

“It is just impossible to talk to you.”

“There you go again, always blaming me when you are the one that cannot even form a sentence properly. I am sick of you treating me like this, telling me when I can and cannot speak, accusing me of things that I haven’t done, it isn’t right or fair.”

“I am not doing those things, please, stop saying I do.”

“But you do, there is something wrong with you, you cannot seem to see it.”

“What do you mean?”

“All this, the endless accusations, the going around in circles and it is not just me that thinks it.”

“What do you mean by that?”

“Other people have noticed it.”

“Like who?”

“It wouldn’t be fair to say.”

“You can’t do that. You can’t accuse me of doing something but not tell me who said it.”

“There you go again, telling me what I can and cannot do.”

“Christ you are so infuriating.”

“And now the insults, nothing changes. You always do this.”

“No I don’t.”

“Oh yes you do. You never listen to me, you always try to pin the blame on me, I can list so many times in the past when you have done it.”

“No I haven’t, have I?”

“Not so sure now are you?”

“It is you, you are messing with my head, I cannot think straight when you play these games.”

“I am not playing games, you do. You started this. I was just watching television on my own and you start up with your usual evening attack on me. It is outrageous the way you treat me. You have the audacity to suggest that I am messing with your head, good Lord, your head is already messed up.”

“No it is not.”

“Oh yes it is, you should see somebody. I don’t even think you realise what you are saying half the time.”

“Yes I do; I am sure I do.”

“You see, you are not sure, you perhaps don’t mean to do it, but you do, you keep accusing me of doing the things that you do and it is unfair. There must be something wrong with you. You need to see a doctor before this gets out of hand.”

“I don’t need a doctor.”

“I think it is for the best.”

“Honestly, no I am fine, I just feel like I am wading through treacle at times.”

“I suppose that is what it is like when you have a mental condition.”

“I don’t have one.”

“You know people who have usually think they do not, that is part of the condition as well. I can tell by the look on your face that this is surprising you but it shouldn’t, I have put up with this for months, you are lucky I have not left you.”

“Left me?”

“Yes, you are intolerable at times.”

“Me? But, but….”

“Sssh, don’t make it any worse, we will get you some help.”

“I don’t need any help.”

“It’s okay, we will see a doctor for you, I will explain everything to him. You need some help and then maybe we can get through this.”

“There is nothing wrong with me.”

“That is what they always say.”

“No, there isn’t anything wrong with me.”

“Look, there is, there is no point denying it.”

“No it is you, not me.”

“Oh here we go again, I thought we were getting somewhere. I thought you might be seeing some sense at last. I am not sitting around listening to you blaming me for your shortcomings. I am going out for a few hours, use the time to sort yourself out. I will be back when I am back.”

“What on earth just happened? That was nonsense.”

“Made perfect sense to me. Bye.”

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48 thoughts on “Perfect Sense”

  1. I have maintained NC for over a year. I have periods of being ok, but every so often it hits me (and hard). The last time I tried reaching out was October; I sent a conciliatory email and got no response. It is taking every fiber of my being right now not to do so again. I tell myself he will only mock the attempt (and still I’ll receive no answer). I hate I still experience these regressive periods; i’m angry it still plagues me. I want resolution and it seems even a nasty response at this point might even help me move forward. Thoughts?

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    1. You have done well maintaining NC for a year. I recall my sister commenting after my father that the following year would be the hardest as it contains all those events (birthdays, holidays, Christmas, anniversaries etc) which ordinarily the now absent person would have some involvement in. It follows this is equally applicable to the demise of the Formal Relationship with our kind. Many people habitually looks backwards, “This time last year we had just started seeing one another”, “It has been six months since we last kissed” etc which is understandable albeit unhelpful as it reinforces the emotional impact and activates the mixture. You have no need to send him an e-mail and you know that he will not only mock the attempt but he will draw fuel from it. Yes it will still plague you, it can take many years to remove and rewrite the effects of what we do to you as I have written in Exorcism.
      Any response from him is unlikely to help you move forward as you are activating the mixture and allowing him to flood into your heart and soul. Celebrate your one year NC, write Ode to Tubby and post it here for my amusement but keep those defences intact.

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      1. Why would my response be mocked (or a non response) while others get hoovered kindly? Did I miss my opportunity by not contacting him directly after the app invite? How was I supposed to know he wanted that? What would have happened if I had?

        I’m not going to reach out, just curious.

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      2. It is the nature of him that would result in the mocking. He will regard your failure to respond to the app invite as criticising him and therefore this increases the chances of you being mocked. Not all others get benign hoovers. You have not missed the opportunity as it was not one that you ought to take. If you had responded he probably would have applied more benign hoovers in order to try to drag you back in.

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  2. Great depiction of a nonsense argument with a narc. So f’ing annoying. Best not to engage at all except on the most neutral terms if absolutely necessary.

    I take it this is a deny, deflect, blame tactic.

    Question:
    Why is it so so hard to own up and admit if you’ve done something wrong? Surely it’d just be easier.

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  3. Ehhhhh, this is upsetting. It took me back for a moment to round and round convos I would have with JN, sitting dumbfounded after it was over.
    H.G., being that you feel so superior and sure of yourself, why not just address / dispute the porn addiction head on? I would think you’d pride yourself on diffusing the actual issue rather than this which is like a dog chasing his tail in endless circles.

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      1. Seriously, with your high intellect? A good verbally charged debate should be very fuel induced and much more mentally stimulating.

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      2. More emotion flows from causing the frustration and upset, the anger and the irritation. A rational debate is intellectually stimulating but emotionally deficient.

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      3. But what if your passionately debating? At least you’re making coherent remarks that can be intelligently followed.

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      4. The person I am debating with may debate with passion which provides some fuel indeed, but not like that of someone tearing their hair out as salad is flung all over them.

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      5. Passionate debating could lead to hair pulling of a different, rather positive outcome rather than negative though, HG. That would be much better!!

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  4. This is exactly the reason why I wrote down my argument/chastising in a letter to my narc. Less interruptions that way, and it was apparently very effective. My “criticism” went round and round in his head afterwards, igniting his fury, until he couldn’t stand it anymore and so decided to “punish” me by cutting me loose. Checkmate! The poor sap didn’t realize HE just got outplayed. Aaahhhhh…freedom!

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  5. OMG! I truly was smiling when I was reading this only because this is so typical. Even recently when he contacted me again…..it’s so frustrating that I finally had to stop. Stop trying to get him to understand, because it always gets turned around or denied. Crazy making for sure! Thanks for the post because it made me realize that I am so glad I am not engaging in these crazy arguments with him any longer.

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  6. You are excellent at it! LOL.. No wonder we think we are crazy. I am now much more defensive with people when they try to tell me something that I know isn’t the truth. I left Starbucks in tears one night when I went up to the barista and kindly told her that my drink was wrong and she told me that’s what I ordered. I knew she was the one who was wrong and I had a break down because of it. It was stupid but it got to me. The constant confusion definitely takes its toll on your mind.

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  7. Exactly. This is such a perfect description of the mind wrecking gaslighting I endured for so long. Fast talking, repetitive lame arguments every single time that make your head spin (and worse, your memory start to fade at a young age if you’re around gaslighting long enough). Anything I said was automatically and without any thought, wrong and he held the counter view of everything no matter how ridiculous it was. I didn’t even live with him, see him, talk to him or get much child support from him but he convinced a couple of Judges that his view made sense. He should have joint custody. He should intrude in my life and control my finances, my happiness and marital status by acting psycho and driving people away from us all one way or another.
    The whole World needs to study your books HG…especially Judges. Thanks.

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  8. again you become for me the best potential screenwriter for series or movies 😃☀️
    i could put myself in this movie or recall nightmarish times with N2
    those types of arguments are so life draining, so taking away peace and happiness…
    😖😖😖😖

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  9. Actually, I would say, “hope you are learning something from the porn because you need a few lessons”.
    I don’t do battle anymore, not like this. In the end, when the N would try to engage in this type of mind games, I right away agreed with everything he said. He had nowhere to go with it. He would get worked up and say “stop agreeing with me!” Yep, my therapist was right he dropped me like a hot potato.
    I am beyond a mental masturbation argument. I also do this with anyone that is looking to argue, as if someone is looking for this, you will never win. Yep, you are right, I am an ass, I am the one who is in the wrong. Sorry, will you forgive me? Now can we move on to something else?
    I don’t need to be right to anyone but myself.
    Now if I am in the mood to fight, look the hell out! There will be a battle.

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  10. This circle jerk…er…circular reference happened no more than three times. I told N2 that I refused to play that crap and would walk out of the room. My own cf was running around my head and that was plenty. Well written and difficult to read.

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  11. Good Try! That would never work with me. I’d have your feet to the fire AND nailed to the cross because this conversation would NEVER stop being about porn, not for one minute.
    Narcs & Sociopaths would rather take care of themselves with an inanimate object, or some dark net deviant torture and rape porn than have a real connection with a human being; until they get to the devaluing, then what ever is the most horrifically degrading act with an actual partner would be FUEL. Obliterating boundaries and self worth is delectable F-U-E-L.
    Sorry people, looking at excessive amounts of hard core porn has been PROVEN to cause what is now called by the medical and psychiatric community as porn induced ED and DE “Delayed Ejaculation”. Not only do the circuits in the brain get fried by the fast moving anything goes visuals, man becomes so used to his own kung foo GRIP he literally can NOT get off unless he is doing himself, with his dopamine and brain chemistry at levels no human power can replicate.
    Unless you are into providing your abuser with a freak show, how romantic, not even hot, really disgusting. OH, but if he knows you find it disgusting guess what that is? FUEL!
    No narcissist has ever got me off task with that bait and switch ploy, as a matter a fact I get calmer, quieter and present more proof right up until the minute he is loosing his mind with rage. When he’s about to really combust…. I leave. Sometimes….. I hear things breaking and crashing after I’m already out the door.
    This article is an excellent example of how a narc gets away with pretty much everything. Also why HG’s books are so invaluable.
    What an education.

    Thank You HG.

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    1. Thank you Amy, an interesting contribution and something I have seen written about with regard to young men and extensive porn habits (leaving aside the issue of narcissism). On another note the proliferation of porn means that those of us under thirty are stunned to see excessive pubic hair. Who knew it grew to such volume in the 1970s?

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  12. I have had so many of these types of conversations, all ending up with me needing help.

    I have messaged you before, HG, and I still find it all so fascinating.

    I’m going through discard again due to my new founded, unwavering boundaries. He seems to like me as supply, but the tap has run dry.

    I guess the ‘you need help’ crap is all part of discrediting. I’m to the point now where he can discredit me all he likes. He has no friends, no family and nothing going for him anymore. His illness has put paid to that.
    I can’t wait to see how he’s going to up his game.

    Is there such a thing as narcissistic ‘episodes’, where it shows strongly and then dissipates for a while? This is what he seems to suffer from. It’s not all the time, hence why I’ve kept on trying and hoping.

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    1. Our behaviour is not episodic but rather constant. Of course like an oscillating wave there will be periods where the behaviour is more marked than on other occasions.

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      1. I think there must be grey areas and he fits into them. He has horrendous episodes, dark periods and then ‘normality’ for a short while. He says he’s moving out anyway, so I guess this phase is over. He’s started on the custody battle already, for our young daughter.

        I spoke to you previously about his son, who I believed would be the bigger issue. Well it turns out that I wasn’t wrong. He’s become far worse in a year. He’s in short term therapy but he’s fooled the therapist already.

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  13. Well I did respond… I accepted the invite. I just made no contact after that (because I was expecting a follow up). Wouldn’t any narc have done so.

    Thank you for your insight HG. It stopped me making a fool of myself (again) 💋

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