Dealing with the Evidence

 

 

Proof. The empathic individual has certain traits which mean gathering proof and exhibiting that proof to the narcissist and other parties is highly important. An empathic person is honest, decent, believes in the truth and has to have the truth known. This is not done from any sense of gloating or about showing how clever and virtuous the empathic person is. The empath operates this way because: –

  1. They want the truth to be known by third parties;
  2. They want to demonstrate that they are correct;
  3. They want to preserve their self-worth by showing the truth of the situation;
  4. They want to show other people that the narcissist is in the wrong;
  5. They want to demonstrate to the narcissist that what the narcissist has done or said is wrong. This is often done to try to help the narcissist, to heal and to fix, rather than engage in point scoring;
  6. It is done to preserve their sanity in the face of the false reality and all its manipulations which are deployed by our kind.

It often takes an empathic person a considerable amount of time to realise that merely explaining what has happened to our kind gets them absolutely nowhere. You may know precisely what has happened but if your recollection of events, no matter how accurate, does not accord with what we require, challenges us, stops us achieving our aims or worst of all constitutes a criticism, we will do anything and everything we can to distort your truth.

I use the phrase ‘your truth’ because it is always important to keep in mind that with each and every situation there is the Empathic Perspective and there is the Narcissistic Perspective. For example, you serve food for everybody and you start with the person nearest to you and this results in our kind being served last. From the Empathic Perspective, you regard this action as the most practical and the politest. From the Narcissistic Perspective, we view this as a criticism; we should have been served first. This criticism results in us being wounded, this causes the ignition of our fury and we may storm out of the dining room through our cold fury or we may fling the plate at the wall as a manifestation of heated fury, either actions occurring in order to draw fuel to heal the wound that has been created by your criticism of us.

Thus, you have the same event but two different perspectives. If you tried to explain to us that you had served people ahead of us because of practicality all you would be doing is repeating the criticism to us and igniting the fury once again. We will only have regard to our perspective and in the ensuing conversation we would engage in deflection, projection, blame-shifting, word salad and other manipulations to reject what you are asserting. From your perspective it appears innocuous, an over-reaction on our part, but from our perspective our response is completely justified.

What of a situation whereby you suspect we have been cheating with somebody else? Let us assume you have followed us and saw us pick up another woman who we embrace in our car and then head off to some secluded spot, a hotel or another location for the purposes of the tryst. You do not confront us but observe and then wait for our return that evening. You decide to remain calm and when we walk in through the door you state,

“You are cheating on me with a blonde-haired woman. I saw you pick her up this afternoon, kiss her and then I followed you to The Happy Ending Motel and saw you go in a room together.”

If you said this angrily, we would draw fuel from your reaction. We would recognize that this is an opportunity to gain more fuel from you and therefore we would look for ways to provoke you further. You are also challenging us. Whilst it does not manifest as a criticism, we still do not appreciate you trying to challenge our superiority and our entitlement to do as we please.

If you made this comment in a calm and neutral manner, you do not provide us with any fuel. You are also criticising us.

You have seen what has happened. It is not hearsay but you have witnessed our behaviour and you have told us so, providing sufficient detail to confirm its legitimacy. What might you hear in response? There are many different replies.

Denial “No I haven’t. I have been at work all afternoon.” Yes, we will be this brazen. Lies come easily to us.

Deflection. “Yes I was dropping a colleague off. She is staying there for a few days and we needed to talk about a project. You know the new plans for the development in the Old Quarter, well we are involved in that now and we need to put a proposal together in a very short time.” On we go talking about something else.

Projection. “I wasn’t doing anything wrong, not like you and that fellow, what is he called, Mike, I saw you getting close to him last week when you went for coffee.” This may or may not be true, it does not matter. It serves to draw a reaction from you and allows us to move the conversation away from what we have done.

Blame-Shift. “Who do you think you are following me? Who gives you the right to do that? There is something wrong with you. I am sick of you trying to control me.”

Blame-Shift. “So what if I am seeing somebody else, if you put out more than once in a blue moon, I wouldn’t have to go elsewhere would I? I am sick of working hard and coming in to this kind of crap.”

Disappearance – we just turn around and walk back out and disappear to some bolt hole for a few days.

Denial and Projection “I think you are mistaken, are you imagining things again? You keep doing this.”

Deflection and Gas Lighting “Oh that, nothing to worry about there, she is new to the company and I was showing her to where she is staying until her new apartment is ready. I know her from the Southern Office, so I greeted her with a kiss, that was all. Anyway, I told you I was doing this last week, don’t you remember? Yes, I told you all about it over dinner, you must have forgotten again. You seem to be doing that a lot recently.”

Verbal assault “Who do you fucking think you are? You are a miserable old cow. Creeping around watching what I am doing. Jesus, you are so fucking sad, I am sick of you. Look at the state of you.” Cue a tirade of insults which may escalate into breaking things and even attacking you.

No matter how you try to point out to us that you have seen us, you know what you saw, you know what the other woman looks like we will not hear what you are saying.

If you keep going and do so in an emotional manner, all we focus on is the fuel that we are giving you and continuing to provoke you to get more fuel.

If you do it without providing fuel, all we hear is the criticism. This wounds us and forces us to seek fuel from you (or if you continue not to provide it we will be forced to withdraw and seek fuel elsewhere).

We will not accept what you are saying, no matter how convincing you are and no matter how much detail you provide. You will be accused of making it up, reading something into nothing, taking it the wrong way, being confused, being mistaken along with all and more of the other manipulations mentioned above.

What about providing some independent evidence to us? What if you have evidence from our phone, in a document, an e-mail, a sound recording or a video? You decide to show us a video of what we did that afternoon in the hope and expectation that we must surely accept what we have done. It is there, recorded and on the screen. How will we respond?

Once again, depending on the way you have conveyed this to us, you will have either provided fuel (telling us there is more) and you have challenged us or you have criticised us. Our perspective means we need fuel, we want fuel, we need to assert our superiority, we need to maintain control, we need to keep you submissive and manipulated. Astonishing as it may seem, you can expect reactions akin to those above and these as well: –

  1. We will tell you the footage has been edited to make us look bad;
  2. We will say that the footage does not show the whole picture and is taken out of context;
  3. We will say it is somebody who looks like us but isn’t us;
  4. We will try to delete the footage;
  5. We will damage the device on which the footage is held;
  6. We will produce some different evidence which points to some imagined transgression on your part and focus on that instead;

If you have independent evidence of any kind, its production engenders the same response as detailed above because we look at it from an entirely different perspective. You can expect the independent evidence to be attacked, tampered with or destroyed along with the plethora of manipulations that have been described above.

You may think that showing our kind definitive proof of our wrongdoing would cause us to hold our hands up and admit we have been caught. It does not work with our kind in that way. We have been designed to see things in a different way so that we will respond to protect ourselves from your criticism (or to draw more fuel and head off your challenge) and that is what we see and hear – criticism and/or fuel. These devices and manipulations occur because: –

  1. We are never at fault;
  2. We are superior to you;
  3. We must be in control;
  4. We are omnipotent;
  5. You are inferior;
  6. We are entitled to do what we want;
  7. We need fuel; and
  8. We hate criticism.

Save your independent evidence for the third parties. Save your breath and your sanity.

The only thing you will ever prove is how predictable, as narcissists, we are, when are confronted with proof.

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52 thoughts on “Dealing with the Evidence”

  1. HG I needed this post! As always lol
    I know we talked about me just being nice at visits. I think that has went out the window and I’ll have to ignore. He has missed his last two scheduled visits for whatever “more important than his son” reasons (time with the gf). And yesterday told me he will be here for his visit next Saturday and he’ll be taking my son for a few hours. I am breastfeeding so technically it’s not possible for him to do so. But…. The whole presenting evidence thing. According to him I’m keeping him from our son. It’s all my fault of course. But I texted back with facts! Actual facts of how he has kept himself from our son. And guess what?! It didn’t matter. I was still the bitter one. The one to blame. Ugh.
    I foresee this being an ugly battle at mediation and in court. But I won’t give up. He’s playing with the wrong empath when it comes to my child.

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    1. Hello OBF, yes typical behaviour there. Doing as he pleases (entitlement), telling you how it will be (entitlement), telling you when he will attend (lack of boundary recognition) telling you that you are keeping him from his son (projection). I understand your desire to text back the facts, which if done in a neutral fashion is useful for building up evidence and not giving fuel, but of course it will not persuade him. He has his own view of how this is going to be.

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  2. Da, svatko ima svoju istinu, eto kako je istina zapravo fleksibilna dolazi nam u svim oblicima, ja zapravo niti ne zelim a niti mi trebaju drugi da potvrde moju istinu, osjecam se sasvim ok sama sa svojom istinom, nema tu nikakvog prostituiranja s istinom. Volim razlicitost i u tome je car zivota , volim i boga i vraga, ali imam nekako osjecaj da vrag zapravo s vremenom pokaze tko je i sto je, dok je bog jos uvijek anoniman, barem za mene.

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    1. Indeed Viktoria, everybody has their own truth but we operate ours in such a different way, in order to achieve what we want and with an almost slavish devotion at times.

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  3. Very ironic and buried memory your PROTECTION example just brought to the front of my mind. Must have been the name MIKE (my AFs name). About a year before even the thought of having any kind of relationship with this man, I was questioning DN about some flirty behavior and he projected it back on me saying that he saw Mike and I flirting and that we even kissed at a work funtion. It was totally absurd at the time but he was actually the one that brought to my attention that Mike was even attracted to me. Say what you will but his own Projection tactic planted the seed. Now I’m not blame shifting, I decided to grow it and I will always own it! I know my choices were selfish and shitty. Narc or not, no one deserves to be cheated on but I just find it ironic…like the song

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    1. Alex, I am not sure how many narcs you’ve ever been with but it seems like a jealous and insecurity repetitive pattern. I’ve had that done to me in every relationship… There is only one man that I actually had an eye for when I was married… I did not act on it but because my ex-husband talked about him so much I ended up telling him the most evil thing regarding the “attraction” when I was drunk. I don’t think it’s appropriate to mention here but let’s just say it had everything to do with performance in bed.

      My exN accused me of being with or liking any guy that would look at me… There were massive issues when it came to going out.. not to mention other guys tend to notice that and some have the nerve to step in and say something (mostly strangers)…that created more issues.

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      1. Dragon..first let me just say that I love your posts!!! Second, I was swooped up by my DN when I was 16 and have been under his influence ever since. Got prego at 17 bc of a lie he told me but I was young, stupid and not saying no..lol, got married at 18 (even after I asked him to leave), had my own affair at 20. I do question now why he didn’t leave but I think the fact that he I begged him and pretty much was willing to do anything to redeem myself gave him so much fuel for so long that he stuck around…to torture me… to continuously gain fuel from me for years without me questioning bc I thought I deserved it for my sins. I will tell you that I was an angel and the perfect wife for 13 years putting up with the cycles but again thinking they were normal bc of what I did. I was truly an angel for 13 years and never even thought about straying but it didn’t stop him from accusing, flirting, and trying to make me jealous and question everything.. He would also passively aggressively compliment me all of the time. Even my friend and his said he treated me like an object, his prize possession (now it makes total sense) and I shouldn’t not take it… but I stayed. I truly didn’t realize just how manipulative he really was until I got away a few years ago after our divorce. Then I began to see something was off, but still didn’t completely figure it out. Despite these twists, my story is very similar to many of yours and 95% of what HG writes about has happen to me. To the point that I finally realized that despite my actions the way he was acting was just not normal. I walked away from him, stayed away, was done! And he came back for more…fuel that is!!!!

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      2. Alex, so young! But not to fear, I have made choice after choice of narcissists since I was the same age of 16!
        See that is what makes it so hard, we are supposed to forgive and move forward if you truly love the person, right? So that is what we do. We learn from our mistakes! It sounds like your exN was punishing you but also not wanting to let you go because of you were his trophy. :/
        They are hard to stay away from… well for me, my last ex is the only one I struggled with. I think no matter how long we have been in relationships with them or how many different ones, it is always the same struggle. They do get us well! <3

        And thank you! I enjoy reading your posts as well! I should also know your history better because I did peek on your blog! 😉

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      3. Dragon, I just saw this…been super busy lately. Barely have time to squeeze in HG but MAKING the time for him…lol Yes, I have come to realize the DN LOVES to punish me…after all I am the only one that does wrong in his eyes…he he…oh well…nothing I can do but try to stay away from his wrath. Hope you have an amazing weekend!

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  4. I think because I am free it doesn’t matter. It’s a pathetic game. I was so hurt by all of this I had such a hard time letting go. HG you are right. We are just providing fuel for you and your kind. If I get into details about all the abuse my friends will look at me like I am crazy. I have a therapist I email once a month and it helps. Even writing on this blog helps to get my thoughts out. Let them be misreble together. Not my problem anymore.

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  5. I have a hard time saying “NO” and you have all those responses at the tip of your tongue. Lol
    I wish I had saved my breath when I told her she was a narcissist and what evidence I had. I was trying to help as always and now I am feeling the wrath of her for pointing it out. Great advice and one that I will remember.

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    1. I’m trying to apply no to every aspect in my life but matters of the heart, it’s really hard to say no. I have learned I am to damn flexible. I don’t mean to be but just call me Matt, Door Matt that is!

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      1. Hey DC ( Door Matt),
        I am one too. Lol.. I remember someone on here saying that they practiced saying “NO”. I have actually started this and am practicing using in certain sceneries where I would benefit from it. I am not quick with my words. I try and think of HG’ s conviction that he would have when he uses it. No apologies. No regrets. I have always had a hard time with that and it’s something I am working on.

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      2. It’s tough… I think about my responses more in-depth before I say yes or know. Reality is do I really want to do this… If I don’t then I reply no and of course the guilty remarks start flowing and I find myself not responding or thinking of a response that will shut down the conversation period. I’m with you and working on it myself!

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      3. DC & SW,
        If there is one thing I learned from Narc Daddy, it was No. Sometimes he would say No Thanks. Rare. He’d say FTW, Stand up for yourself you are your only advocate, remember that. I said No but still got suckered on other things.

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      4. Oh Frenchtoast, I had a problem with “no” all my life. When my ex came along that word was completely erased from my vocabulary. I wouldn’t have even thought of saying it. Hope your day is good😄

        HG, I can see more and more how you view power. When you can take a word or words out of someone’s vocabulary and when you can control someone’s emotions that is power. I see how you want it and need it.
        Makes sense.

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      5. Snow. Wow. “Take a word out of someone’s vocabulary”. You just made me realize his his common gaslighting use during heated discussions of the phrase “Well, you just need to retire that word from your lexicon” (Not the word no, but whatever word that is being used at the time that is countering what he wants.) Holy shit. Bam! 👊💡

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  6. Sáncte Míchael Archángele, defénde nos in proélio, cóntra nequítiam et insídias diáboli ésto præsídium. Ímperet ílli Déus, súpplices deprecámur: tuque, prínceps milítiæ cæléstis, Sátanam aliósque spíritus malígnos, qui ad perditiónem animárum pervagántur in múndo, divína virtúte, in inférnum detrúde. Ámen.

    Some people should never be entrusted with the responsibility of the life of another, because they have issues that ruin the innocent lives of others.

    May the God of love, restoration and hope give you peace and the healing love you truly deserve not the lies of the enemy.

    Do not let the past ruin your future your Heavenly Father can offer you the Perfect Love that you desire, when you feel alone and in pain and empty inside

    Your best days are ahead of you.

    God Bless you

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    1. Even though I am not a religious person myself I did enjoy your prayer, in Latin, to St.Michael… It is beautiful to see someone faithful to their religion, as seen in your post…which is rare, do not sway! 🙂

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  7. Dear HG Tudor
    Why are you revealing the tactics of a Malignant Narcissist to the public or maybe targets of this kind of behaviour?

    I am curious?

    May the Lord Bless and heal you in Jesus Name †

    Hail Mary, Full of Grace, The Lord is with thee, blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus.

    Holy Mary Mother of God, Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death Amen

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    1. It is part of my treatment, to write about me and my kind. It also appeals to my perverse sense of humour to set up the weaponised empath against my kind and watch what happens.

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      1. I, for one, am extremely grateful! My war is turning into battles. Fortunately I am a fighter. Its how I managed to escape, even divorce. Although its still not over because he just cant give up, I am determined to win this. One pillar at a time. Thanks heaps….again.

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      2. Yowsa. That was a brutally honest statement. Haha. And, makes total sense from your perspective. Since, both the rare honesty and the tactic serve multiple agendas in your favor. Treatment requirement. Discovery of new abundant fuel source with ego feed from empaths. And knock out other Np competition with mass triangulation. All in one fell swoop. Well done chap, I must say. Well played.

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  8. So many times I looked away, so many tears I cried alone.
    Beaten, bruised and left for dead.
    I played the game, one never meant for me to win.

    HG thank you.

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  9. I so wish I found this blog sooner, this hits the nail on the head, random phone calls at midnight from a girl made me look through his phone as he gave me no reassurance or explanation why that person would be calling him, I discovered vile things in his phone, total betrayal in my eyes, but how dare I look at his phone, I was the lowest of the low for doing that, promises that he has not met anyone during our break, only to again find messages to his friends bragging about his dates, obviously suspicious and insecure as I never let him know the second time that he was a liar because I learnt the first time, I would ask him where he was going when I seen him when he told me he was at home, to be told he is sick of me, always questioning, controlling him… He still doesn’t know I know to this day, although it has nearly been 2 months no contact, I have evidence of the money he didn’t pay back, smears to friends and also what he has told people and post obviously aimed at me over social media… I debated weather to use this to show everyone I wasn’t insane, controlling or a psychological control freak he was making me out to be, yet if I posted them then I would in his sick mind would clarify what he has been telling others, now I use this evidence to remind me never to go back…. It still hurts and I feel lonely and lost but also relieved, that I am not mad or ridiculous, over reactive or sensitive… Counselling helped me to be a bit more assertive and pointed me in the right direction to realising he his a narcissist and will never change. Thank you HG xx

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    1. Thank you Ttaroma, your use of the evidence you have is the best option for you and you have done well to deal with it in that manner. I am pleased you have found the blog useful and I look forward to your further contributions.

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  10. HG, great post!!!! For me and my stepson, I always want to make sure he knows I know the truth because I do – I think he resents me for it and sometimes I feel bad because I just can feel it and can tune in – naturally, my intent is to not to hurt him and he HATES criticism – what would you think the better alternative is?

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    1. Thank you Sarah.

      1.Is it necessary for him to know the truth just because you do? Evaluate that.
      2. If it is, you could provide the truth in a manner which also gives him fuel so it will not be perceived as a criticism. It would need to be positive fuel. If it is negative, he will see you are challenging him and will want more of the negative fuel.
      3. If it is deemed absolutely necessary for him to know the truth, consider whether it might be better coming from someone else if he regard you as more critical than say his father.

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      1. HG, thanks for your response as always.

        1. Your right. I evaluated it and this is probably single handedly the cause of most of my issues with him, but when you said this, I thought to myself, “Why do I want him to know?” That is a good question as after evaluation, here is what I came up with:

        A. Sense of Belonging/ Being Included
        This one hit me deep, but I think it has to do with wanting to at least be able to play the game with him. We look at the game totally different – he sees it as I am just a player on the game that is supposed to move where it is supposed to move, where I want to play it with him and be myself. Being a stepparent is an outsider position as is; however, this is a subconscious topic that has to have elements of truth to it because it hit pretty hard. I fear doing nothing, but just may have to resolve that the game isn’t really being played by two people in the way I see it.

        B. Not Waste His Time
        My stepson will put on Machiavellian plots and is sharp as a tack. I admire this quality. I never in a million years would have thought of how to do some of the things he does. It’s brilliant, really. He does not do this to his father, but I am more engaging – probably based on hypothesis A – and will spend hours questioning me and then use every single thing I say against me – as there is nothing I have hide – I see it and call him out about it and he gets PISSED. So I feel like I wasted his time because when I knew and said nothing and more energy went into it, I was giving that energy to understand and see if maybe if we could make headway this time verses him but maybe just need to let him get disappointed in the end.

        C.Being Oneself
        The ultimate problem probably is that in my own home, I can’t be myself around him without him taking it offensively (or how I feel – which is why I was super sensitive to making anyone pissed off here as I feel like it’s just my natural personality or something). I never get mad or angry because I think what he is doing is cute in it’s own way. He will always be a risk taker, extremely competitive, cynical, demanding, intolerant, moody, relentless, humorous, engaging, defensive, retaliatory, and the first to get frustrated at a situation that probably warrants frustration. I LIKE all those things but feel like all those things get used against who I am so it’s like I can’t be me if he can be him and he feels the same way.

        2. I really appreciate this one as this is something I could practice in application where I feel Hypothesis A, B, and C could be bridged. But let’s say take the calling of mom and the stealing of the money…Would positive criticism be: “It really made me feel special that you called me mom, not that I am or will ever replace your mom, but it made me feel like you were really warming up to me. I am hurt though because I can’t figure out if you did that just to steal money and that makes me feel sadness which feels like a heavy feeling in my heart – like what you feel like if you don’t get attention from someone and need fuel.” (should I try to describe the feelings too because I am really getting close to understanding them – but would that be viewed as positive criticism?

        3. Good advice here too. We have been doing that as of late and that is better. However, I think a break-through for me lies in Hypothesis A – home has always been important to me – a place where I can recharge – having him here like this all the time is draining, but this gives me hope that maybe with some self reflection and change in delivery, it can be a harmonious existence for the next 6 years!

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    2. I am bothered by your statement in this post. He needs to be evaluated PROPERLY by a mental health counselor, not you and not your husband.

      HG, you should be pushing this as you resent your mother for the way she treated you. Please think about the possible damage to this young kid.

      Sarah, your stepson is a teen. Talk to a counselor…seriously, go to group therapy sessions… do something because what if it ISN’T NPD? What if it is BPD or he has a form of autism? What if he is depressed? What if he is behaving like a teen and just acting out??!?!

      Check this out… http://www.choosehelp.com/topics/parenting-family-therapy/is-your-teen-a-narcissist-learn-the-warning-signs-and-treatment-options

      I am sorry, I have a teenage daughter who is mouthy, throws fits because I don’t let her do what she wants, she claims she doesn’t care about anyone and all of the narcissistic traits of her father. That is because her FATHER already has the GOLDEN CHILD and my daughter isn’t the one. My daughter wanted to kill herself a while back because of this nonsense. Let me tell you, he is only in her life when it is convenient for HIM although he does provide some essentials…
      MY daughter is NOT a narcissist. She has empathy, she likes to build a wall that IS destructible. I have had to learn HOW to talk to her to get her to take that wall down with me. It is tough… stop thinking about how YOU feel and start thinking about what that boy has had to deal with.
      My daughter was 9 when her dad and I divorced, she hated everyone because of it. My daughter is now 17 about to turn 18… our relationship is GREAT but not because I assumed… I reached out, I talked to her doctor… I had to learn. They are temperamental, they are trying to discover themselves, they are hormonal, and most importantly they ALL have narcissistic tendencies.

      If your step son is diagnosed NPD then great, but you still need to reevaluate how you are handling talking to him. He is still a child.

      P.S. If you want to hang around here and have fun, do it. It is fine but PLEASE get the proper help he needs.

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      1. Your comment is so fitting! Today, Wikileaks has come out with some fun new facts about Mrs. Clinton – sigh, and she will probably STILL win the election…people ask me why I don’t vote – I say it – it’s rigged, but if Trump wins, I will personally acknowledge that the electoral college is not rigged…and I’m an American!

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  11. Im grateful so very grateful to have your blog n an outlet to vent. I no longer discuss Mr. Perfect with ANYONE… Been holding it all in for awhile now …Unless those you share with have had a narc in their life they don’t get it n we just sound crazy to them. Here I find validation that Im not losing my mind nor am I a drunk with a poor memory n vivid imagination… Every thing he accused me of being and doing… he is and does. He really thought I was stupid but what I was was in DENIAL big time n also felt trapped. I didn’t see or think I could find a way to financially get out on my own again. I had quit my job to work for him…big mistake because he paid when he felt like it.. I ended up moving in with him as I didn’t have rent money.Ohhh just so fucked up all the stress n mind fuck games…. Never again . The smear campaign… I had no clue that this is part of your fucked upness n that I really wasn’t making things up. So Im not a Street Walking Whore?! Oh snap! I kinda liked how that sounded, LOL

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    1. Hello Gooey, I am right with you. I have one friend who has been with me from the beginning of my relationship to where I am now. I agree with you on not discussing it with anyone else. Waste of my time and it just frustrates me and makes me cry. If I need to vent this is where I come to. If something happens I immediately contact HG. I know he will listen. I feel better and not crazy when I am here. I have made progress from taking HG’s advice.
      ❤️🍎❤️

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  12. Sooo, what is the best way to make the narc crumble before my feet if I provide the evidence? Like which pillar would be ascociated with that? Entitlement? Hmmm….if only I knew then what I know now. Thanks HG.

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      1. Thanks HG. Let the games begin. My first attack started yesterday. Tomorrow another. Theres a saying that states “so, you wanna play the game?…I’ll show YOU how its played!” Wish me luck! 😉

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  13. One parting thought: HG I like what you said save your breath and your sanity. We try to make sense of some thing that that will never make sense. Its a hurtful game from a person that has no heart and no soul. In my situation very low self esteem. Its fun and exciting to watching two women battle over you. As painful as it still is, move on.

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  14. Living this recently.if i hadn’t begun learning more i’d of felt in the middle of a nasty twilight zone.
    may i just say f— lies, fuel, and nutballs!
    thanks, that helped!
    I liked Ave Maria’s post also.

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  15. HG,

    I was reading this article again and on the six factors you labeled, in my situation, I identified with 5 and 6 – 1 thru 4 are not of issue in my personal situation. I am going to try to work on this with the methods you stated above, but I thank you for sharing that valuable insight. Today, things went better, but I put these words to action and it went well! As always, very thankful for your work and relating how the NPD condition operates so we can all be more aware 🙂

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  16. @HG, OK… assume you or another N cheated on their partner. Why not just admit and “it will never happen again” (or something in that sense?), Cheers

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