Is it the End?

I was engaged in a discussion recently with Dr E. The conversation concerned relationships.

“So, when you end a relationship, tell me how do you feel about it?” he began as he unfolded his notebook and found a fresh page.

“I do not end my relationships,” I replied.

“I see, so they are always ended by the other person are they?” he asked.

“No.”

He waited to see if I was going to say anything else but I remained silent. Come on Dr E, let’s see where you are going with this. You cannot outsmart me. He sat looking at me and I at him.

“Those answers suggest to me then that your relationships do not end.”

Give Dr E enough time and he always gets there.

“Exactly,” I answered.

“I see. We have discussed a number of relationships that you have and have had. With family members, acquaintances, friends and of course lovers. Now, from what you have explained to me I would certainly regard many of those relationships having come to an end, either by your doing or, though admittedly less often, at the hand of the other person.”

“Your concept of a relationship evidently differs from mine.”

“Please, expand on that point.”

“My relationships begin when I determine that they should begin,” I started to speak. Dr E frowned but said nothing. I could tell he wanted me to provide clarity to that assertion and I was happy to oblige.

“When I detect somebody who will prove of use to me then our relationship has already begun. It matters not whether we have spoken in person or even made any kind of contact. The decision that the relationship has begun rests with me.”

Dr E was making notes as I spoke.

” The nature of the relationship is defined by what use that person is to me in providing me with my fuel. If the fuel they provide is strong and potent then I will be spending a lot of time with that person, others less so. I dictate the pace at which the relationship will develop by such criteria that I understand people like you apply to relationships.”

“What criteria are those?” asked Dr E.

“Instances such as familiarity with one another, whether there is a hand shake or a kiss on greeting, the name by which we call one another, whether they can be relied on to provide information, whether they will lend money, whether we go to certain places together and how often, whether we live together, all of these things are what you measure a relationship by.”

“And do you regard those criteria as instances that ought to happen over a particular period of time?”

“No. They are all measurements by which I know people like you determine the nature of the relationship. I use them as markers by which the level of fuel can be influenced, accordingly, I will move them along at a pace which suits my demands for fuel.”

“But not according to anyone else’s input or say a generally accepted norm from society?”

“Well, the other person has to consent to the act, I mean, I haven’t imprisoned anyone in my home. Yet.” I smiled.

“But if they are to provide their consent surely that means the timescale is taken out of your hands?”

“Not at all. I just make them consent in accordance with my timescale,” I said.

“By exerting the influences you have described to me previously?”

“Exactly.”

Dr E remained silent as he continued to write.

“So you determine when the relationship begins and the pace at which it proceeds and this relationship never ends?”

“Yes.”

“But some of the instances of your intimate relationships that you have described to me certainly fit with the concept that they have ended.”

“Not at all. If I have cast someone to one side because, as they always do, they have let me down in some way, then I will not let them walk away. They might think they have been able to do this. Indeed, in certain instances I encourage that train of thought so that the person’s defences remain down and thus they are susceptible to me resurrecting our interaction. Nobody leaves me and I do not leave anybody. They will always serve some kind of purpose, at some point and therefore there may be a pause in our interaction but there is never a cessation.”

“What if the other person decides they no longer wish to interact with you?”

“Why on earth would they think that?” I asked puzzled.

“Well, your treatment of many of them was harsh and unpleasant.”

“But no less than they deserved. People need to know their place and if they step outside of that they must be brought to heel.”

“Why?” asked Dr E.

“Because I gave them everything and each time they repay me by letting me down. That is unfair. Each time I give them the world, I really do doctor and no matter how wonderful I am to them they do not do enough in return and they let their affection become dull or they fail to provide me with the adoration that I deserve. It is wrong and they must be made to see how wrong they are punished for their transgressions.”

“So you maintain a relationship to punish the other person?”

“In part yes, but it is usually because they still prove of use to me and they have their debt to me to repay.”

“I see,” remarked Dr E and he continued with his writing.

“And when do they repay this debt?” he asked.

“That’s the problem doctor, ” I said with a sigh, ” they never do. That is why I never let them go.”

0
Advertisements

44 thoughts on “Is it the End?”

  1. Mr. Tudor, upon reading the book Fuel, I ask myself if you have any thoughts of people Fake-Fueling you simply to get answers from you, or to “experiment with The Narcissist”?? Is this giving others their own ammunition it which to turn it around onto you??

    My other question is this: Does not FUEL come in extravagant quantities without you even trying to lift-a-finger to get this fuel when it is certain that when a woman is in-love with you, or married to you, she will desire to lavish praise on her beloved 24/7! Would this not be automatic when she loves him?

    BTW, FUEL is an amazing book! In the whole time I have researched NPD, I was nowhere near as informed as I am now, having even just reached the 2nd chapter of FUEL! I am amazed, really.

    daisies with Claudia & Tamara

    1+
    1. I can detect fake fuel in person. If it is through the means of technology it is far harder to detect but over time once can ascertain the motives of individuals. It is usually the case that my background work on that person tells me all I need to know about the public appearance they exhibit towards me and I adjust my position accordingly. I already know, in case you were wondering.

      Yes love is fuel in itself.

      Thank you for your compliment.

      0
      1. Strangely, I find that Love is ‘Fuel in Itself’, for me, as well. I react very well to love. Sadly, I do not react so well to hate; not well, at all. If someone is kind and loving toward me, I will give them my Everything, and so much more, in unlimited abundance in time, energy, adoration, admiration, ETC. Far to the opposite spectrum, if someone treats me like the dirt off their shoes, I am ashamed to admit that my fury will be uncontrollable. I am trying to change this through DBT Skills. It seems that what others give to me, whether good or bad, I give them back in 10-fold. Again, I am trying to change this natural instinct of mine with self-care, and DBT. I am sorta of like a Magnifying Mirror… (I just thought of that)!

        0
  2. To be imprisoned in your home. Ah, why does that sound amazing to me? Its a sense of security and it means forever. My responses are not appropriate, not normal. I should think a lifetime of torture is bad, but I don’t. I should not be happy knowing its never over, but I am.
    How does one repay your debt?
    I ask only out of curiousity. I want to be indebted for life.

    0
  3. Hey HG, when you learn that one of your discarded appliances recovers and remarries / enters into a healthy longterm relationship with a new partner, does this cause you to leave them alone? Do you feel any disappointment? Self-criticism? or narcissistic injury at the loss of ‘your’ supply especially when their new relationship is not with a narc?

    Will you still approach them regardless of their relationship status as long as they enter one of the six hemispheres of influence?

    Also, my ex chose my immediate predecessor as the first fall back supply to contact after our first major breakup (after about three years together( (off and on of course lol) throughout which he broke off contact with her despite her repeated attempts to contact him (she is/was unawhare he was NPD and they maintained a post-breakup pseudo friendship / sexual relationship for the few years they were ‘together’ until she moved away and he found me six weeks later ugh … Anyway, she tried to stay in touch and he didn’t (but still triangulated me with her for years) and then she told him if he didn’t reply to not bother ever again … So when he circled back to her years later after our big breakup and blamed me for not being in touch, she actually followed through on her threat and ignored him — I have no idea for how long — but a) when you need a quick hit of fuel post a sudden (if temporary) breakup, do you seek out your last partner or only if she was your strongest available source of fuel and b) if this ex appliance ignored you, would you move on to someone else or step up your efforts to woo her back into the fold? She moved across the country so it would be virtual supply at best but it must have freaked him out to find himself suddenly with two expected fuel lines out of service — as time goes by and my ex still has no ‘public’ partner, I’m convinced some of his intended targets are not panning out — this must be a scary predicament to face for an aging NPD but he is still very handsome and brilliantly charming — as always, I’m so curious how they fuel up after discards and escapes, especially when the appliances don’t respond to hoovers and the NPD is aging and has to find some fuel and maintain some caution / a normal every day reputation — my ex has a lot of family and secondary /tertiary sources but I was a very strong (emotional) fuel line and I’ve been shocked in retrospect that I was discarded when there was no replacement — or did these replacements not pan out? THX!! FuelFL

    0
    1. Hello FFL, it depends when it happens. If they do so when I am engrossed in the seduction of a new appliance then I have little interest in them. If it happens when I am engaged in a devaluation, it has an impact on the Hoover Execution Criteria as it may present an obstacle which means my hoovering of them could be more difficult. Of course, the opportunity to cause mayhem between this old appliance and whoever she is with is also tempting as there is the potential for maximum drama and two lines of fuel. I do not feel any disappointment that they have entered a new relationship because since I have such a high level of entitlement, the fact I do not recognise and respect boundaries, my lack of a conscience and my need for fuel is such, the fact somebody is in a relationship does not deter me per se because in my mind the Narcissistic relationship lasts until death and that person belongs to me. Their new love interest is only relevant in two respects
      a. The potential for more fuel;
      b. A barrier for the hoover.

      Will I still approach them? Yes if they enter one the spheres of influence and the HEC is met.

      If we need a hit of fuel we will consider using secondary and tertiary sources. If an ex enters a sphere of influence and the HEC are met, we will seek fuel from that person. If the ex rebuffs the hoover, our response depends on how well fuelled we are, what type of narcissist we are and if we have been wounded by the rebuttal. A well-fuelled greater would try again. A poorly fuelled Lesser may switch to a malign approach to gather fuel, a mid-range who has a fuel crisis would back off and go elsewhere.
      In terms of what will happen post escape have a read of the books No Contact and Black Hole. Also see the articles How No Contact Feels – Parts One to Three.

      0
  4. I am spinning out, he’s not spoken to me for three weeks now and I don’t know why. I just cyber stalked his damned Facebook which I never do.

    Seems that this time it really is the end. If I contact him to ask why he’s not talking to me I look like a fool, right?

    Sorry, I”m really distressed about this. I just typed out an email to ask him but deleted and came here instead.

    0
    1. Yes, do not ask him such things WM and you are better served coming here and expressing your situation than succumbing to wanting to contact him. It is understandable that you feel this way but it can be tackled.

      0
    2. Watermelon,

      May I suggest writing a letter (on paper or ms word…never email) when you feel like talking to him? It is best on anything you can’t accidently send, or spur of the moment send, to him. This will get your thoughts and feelings out of your head and on paper. ALSO, as HG suggests, please do come here…. spurt it out… rant, rave… let us help you through this time. HG, even though a narcissist himself, has been extremely helpful and will guide you right. PLEASE be very aware though, what HG is doing is not typical of a narcissist so do not think they will all behave in the same manner! <3 We are all here for you and most of us have been your shoes…. also stay off of his social media no matter how tempted, it will only make your mind spin more!

      Big huge hugs from me and I am sure most of the gals here!! Stay strong!

      0
  5. HG, do you ever feel that Dr. E vicariously wishes he could live through you? I always feel in your sessional recounts, Dr. E always is more learning from you than vice versa! Who do you relate with better – Dr. E or Dr. O?

    0
    1. I don’t think he wishes he could live through me but he is certainly learning from me and finds it all very interesting. Dr O tries to remain glacial but I know she chimes with much that I say, I can tell. I relate with them both in different ways, but if I had to pick one over the other in terms how I relate to them, I would say Dr E.

      0
      1. HG, thanks for responding 🙂 You are very interesting and have an amazing ability to talk about it in a very explainable and intriguing way – do you think you will continue therapy and/or has it helped you in your opinion or not really?

        0
      2. Thank you Sarah. I will continue with the therapy as to do so is assisting my own long-term goals. It has certainly helped in expanding my understanding and awareness.

        0
      3. Has there been any scenarios or notions brought to you here by any of the readers that stumped you and you sought Dr.E or Dr. O out as a sounding board on how to answer someone?

        0
      4. No, although my interactions with the good doctors has clearly allowed me to understand much of what I am and what my kind are to enable me to answer the questions that are posed.

        0
    2. Sarah,
      Okay, the only other place I could find to reply. And we are off……..
      Wisdom
      Eve did not need experience evil. There was no evil. Wisdom was from God. Gods wisdom is perfect. He told her the consequences of what would happen. She had the warning. So we can call it selfish. She wanted to decide good and bad for herself as Satan told her that God was holding that back from her. She selfishly desired to self rule. Independent thinking. Set her own rules. All selfish acts. She didn’t need to experience evil for herself to know what it was. She could have asked God, when tempted. He gave wisdom. Satan lied. He made himself the chief adversary of God. If she would have followed Gods commandment she would not have had to experience evil and we wouldn’t either.

      Book of Life
      As to this book, we, as well as all humans in history since Adam and Eve, have the opportunity to be in Gods memory or book of life. Adam and Eve have already received their judgement directly from God. That is when the death sentence was put on them. They are not eligible to have their name in the book along with others in history that God directly passed judgement on. They have no chance for redemption. Their judgement was mete out by God, They are not in the book or in Gods memory. Our judgement has not come yet.

      Eve
      She was given her name after she ate from the tree (Genesis 3:20). She was supposed to fulfill this role as Gods purpose stated it and he does not lie. (Genesis 1:27-28). She still became the mother of all creation, she however passed on sin and death to all of us. She again had complete understanding as God was perfect and would have explained what death was. She also repeated to Satan in Genesis 3 what the consequences were. She knew. Satan told her the first lie. He said you will positively not die. She was therefore accountable because she decided to believe Satan and not God. She did not go to Adam and did not consult God himself. She was accountable and so was Adam. God passed the judgement right away, then gave the resolution to redeem us at (Genesis 3:15). The one that will crush Satan is the promised seed Jesus. (Genesis 22:18, 49:10, Galatians 3:16, 3:29)The woman is Gods heavenly Organization (Revelation 12:1, 5). The Enmity is between Satan and God and his heavenly Organization. They are at odds, Good seed or Evil seed or offspring of each.(Revelation 12:7 and 12:17). Jesus took a heel wound in that He was put to death but resurrected back to life in heaven (Acts 3:15). Satan takes a crush to the head a devastating blow thus eventually total destruction.

      Death
      Since you brought up this debate. Ask where the origins of Hinduism and Buddhism come from. Way to lengthy but I can tell you if you want. Let me know. Christianity however is very clear on the matter of death. I could really comment extensively on this but will give you some ideas with the references.

      The dead are shown to be “conscious of nothing at all” and the death state to be one of complete inactivity. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10; Psalm 146:4) Those dying are described as going into “the dust of death” (Psalm 22:15), becoming “impotent in death.” (Proverbs 2:18; Isa 26:14) In death there is no mention of God or any praising of him. (Psalm 6:5; Isaiah 38:18, 19) In both the Hebrew and the Greek Scriptures, death is likened to sleep, a fitting comparison not only because of the unconscious condition of the dead but also because of the hope of an awakening through the resurrection. (Psalm 13:3; John 11:11-14) The resurrected Jesus is spoken of as “the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death.”—1Corinthians 15:20, 21

      Whereas the ancient Egyptians and other peoples of pagan nations, and particularly the Grecian philosophers, were strong in their belief in the deathlessness of the human soul, both the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures speak of the soul (Heb., neʹphesh; Gr., psy·kheʹ) as dying (Judges 16:30; Ezekiel 18:4, 20; Revelation 16:3), needing deliverance from death (Joshua 2:13; Psalm 33:19; 56:13; 116:8; James 5:20), or as in the Messianic prophecy concerning Jesus Christ, being “poured out . . . to the very death” (Isaiah 53:12; compare Matthew 26:38). The prophet Ezekiel condemns those who connived “to put to death the souls that ought not to die” and “to preserve alive the souls that ought not to live.”—Ezekiel 13:19

      Thus, The Interpreter’s Bible (Vol. II, p. 1015), commenting on 1 Samuel 25:29, observes that “the idea of man as consisting of body and soul which are separated at death is not Hebrew but Greek.” (Edited by G. Buttrick, 1953) Similarly, Edmond Jacob, Professor of Old Testament at the University of Strasbourg, points out that, since in the Hebrew Scriptures one’s life is directly related with the soul (Heb., neʹphesh), “it is natural that death should sometimes be represented as the disappearance of this nephesh (Genesis 35:18; I Kings 17:21; Jerimiah 15:9; Jonah 4:3). The ‘departure’ of the nephesh must be viewed as a figure of speech, for it does not continue to exist independently of the body, but dies with it (Numbers 31:19; Judges 16:30; Ezekiel 13:19). No biblical text authorizes the statement that the ‘soul’ is separated from the body at the moment of death.”—The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible, edited by G. Buttrick, 1962, Vol. 1, p. 802.

      Fear Of God vs. Love of God
      Gods four cardinal attributes are Love, Wisdom, Justice and Power.
      Though God is rightfully the almighty Universal Sovereign, he desires willing hearted service from his subjects, not mindless, fearful, or servile obedience. (Matthew 22:37) God never abuses his authority. A dramatic vision given to the prophet Ezekiel shows this.

      In this vision, Ezekiel saw four angelic creatures who upheld God’s sovereignty. Each had four faces. “As for the likeness of their faces,” writes Ezekiel, “the four of them had a man’s face with a lion’s face to the right, and the four of them had a bull’s face on the left; the four of them also had an eagle’s face.” (Ezekiel 1:10) These four faces represent the four perfectly balanced cardinal qualities, or attributes, of God. These are identified in God’s Word as: love, represented by the man’s face; justice, represented by the lion’s face; and wisdom, represented by the eagle’s face. These three attributes work together with the fourth—power, as shown by the bull’s face. What does all of this mean? The vision shows that God never exercises his unlimited power and authority in a way that is out of harmony with his other cardinal qualities.
      Based on these attributes it would be a healthy fear of displeasing God. Proverbs 9:10 that you quoted, pertains to this healthy fear.
      So God never ever rules with fear, example, you quoted 1 John 4:8,9) If he IS LOVE why would he ever torment people in a fiery hell? Eternally torment. Those are not loving acts and do not coincide with the condition of the dead in the scriptures I stated above about death. That teaching of fear and torment do not harmonize with the rest of the bible.

      The Snake
      Revelation 12:9. Revelation 20:2 They are all the same person. the dragon the original serpent the one called Devil and Satan. Jesus references this at (John 8:44) Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees here, condemning them. He calls the Devil the father of the lie. Who told the first lie? Satan, which is again the original serpent. Remember that God stated they would die, he didn’t say instantaneously, he couldn’t. He said they had to populate the earth. If they died instantly then God would have lied in his purpose to have them to populate the earth. In fact, they did die. He did not lie. Again Eve became mother of all of us just as God said. They were also closer to perfection, their bodies would be able to sustain life longer than we do because we are so far away from perfection. Methuselah lived to 969. Adam lived 930 years in fact Genesis 5 gives many examples. After the flood Genesis chapter 11 shows years of life are shortening. By the time you get to Psalm 90:10 It gives a generalization about life span. Yes there are those that are even mightier and live just after 100, but the point of that scripture here is that we continually have died living less and less years compared to the way it was supposed to be, forever. The snake is not misunderstood. He is in direct opposition and a constant resister to Gods government and his Authority over the earth. (Zechariah 3:1) He is ruling this earth against God and trying to usurp Gods sovereignty. (1 John 5:19)(John 14:30, John 16:1, Acts 26:17,18; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4; Ephesians 2:1,2; Revelation 12:9, 12)
      He is trying to mislead people away from God and take them down with him. Revelation 12:17 applies here. Remember the woman from Genesis 3:15? She represents Gods Heavenly organization or government. He is waging war with her seed, that is humankind that have the choice to worship God. Adam Eve and Satan, acting as the serpent, all were condemned to death. Adam and Eve are dead, Satan soon will be.

      The Choice
      In the garden of Eden, God employed two trees for symbolic purposes: “the tree of life” and “the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.” Failure to respect God’s decree concerning the latter brought man’s fall.—Ge 2:9, 16, 17; 3:1-24.

      The significance of “the tree of the knowledge of good and bad” and of the restriction placed on its fruit has often been incorrectly viewed as relating to the sexual act between the first human pair. This view is contradicted by God’s plain command to them as male and female to “be fruitful and become many and fill the earth.” (Ge 1:28) Rather, by standing for “the knowledge of good and bad” and by God’s pronouncement decreeing it to be out-of-bounds for the human pair, the tree became a symbol of God’s right to determine or set the standards for man as to what is “good” (approved by God) and what is “bad” (condemned by God). It thus constituted a test of man’s respect for his Creator’s position and his willingness to remain within the area of freedom decreed by God, an area that was by no means cramped and that allowed for the greatest enjoyment of human life. Therefore, to violate the boundaries of the prohibited area by eating of “the tree of the knowledge of good and bad” would be an invasion of or a revolt against God’s domain and authority.

      Again you say that the snake was perfect. He was not, He was created perfect and made or chose to challenge Gods authority thus removing his perfect state by rebellion.

      Your statement All the knowledge and wisdom of the universe became unveiled.
      Not to all people. Satan has continually tried to sway people away from true knowledge and wisdom, (2 Corinthians 4:3,4) which is only found in Gods word the bible. But there is a remedy for this. (2 Corinthians 3:16).

      (Proverbs 9:10 and Job 28:28) Tell us that the fear, in the sense of displeasing God, is the beginning of wisdom. Just the beginning. You have to take in knowledge about God through study of the bible. Learn about what pleases and displeases him, Then course correct your conduct. So first knowledge, which changes the thought, then wisdom from said knowledge and actions to carry out changes that are in accord with Gods standards. Nobody can please God perfectly, for we are imperfect. But he asks us to try to do the best we can to live our lives according to his standards. He understands we make mistakes. (Romans 3:23, 24) He is pleased with our best efforts to serve him (Colossians 3:23). He understands our limitations (Psalm 103:14).

      (Proverbs 5:12,13) explains how the majority of people feel about discipline or the words true meaning which is to teach. They don’t want to learn what God requires of them, they would rather rule themselves instead of the one who made us and has our best interests at heart. The one who is the universal Sovereign, God Almighty.
      Please let me know your thoughts Sarah.

      0
  6. My Narc said he feels he will end up with me in the end. Bahahaha.
    It is going on two months of no contact and I do think of him although it is not in a warm and fuzzy wanna have a hug way.
    I tried to be a confidant to him as we openly talked about his NPD. In the end, I decided not to continue as I am so much better then he deserves. Besides, he has a sister.
    I am sure if I called he would pick up.

    0
  7. Did your relationship with your ex-wife last longer than your other relationships? Has her fuel levels kept her in your sixth sphere for future hoovers?

    0
    1. Presumably you are asking about the Formal Relationship Clarece? Yes it did, but not by a huge margin.
      Her fuel levels did keep her in the sixth sphere for a period of time but then she was outranked by another appliance.
      She periodically appears for other reasons that cause her to appear in the sixth sphere.

      0
  8. I love reading your interactions with the doctors. It’s just another example that showcases your gift for writing. By telling and showing your experiences various ways I am able to understand more each time you write them. Even though you told me before I had no choice in defining the relationship and how it would proceed this just explained it even further for me.
    I loved it and I am continuing to learn.

    0
  9. So so true. The stalking and hoovering are on again! Its been months of NC . Months! Even a divorce! Prepare for battle narc. I have HG as my Commander in Chief. 😉

    0
  10. Dr. Hannibal Lecter: Why do you think he removes their skins, Agent Starling? Enthrall me with your acumen.

    Clarice Starling: It excites him. Most serial killers keep some sort of trophies from their victims.

    Dr. Hannibal Lecter: I didn’t.

    Clarice Starling: No. No, you ate yours.

    —Bam. Thank you for playing.

    0
  11. So…do you believe in the “final discard” then?
    I’ve been told I likely got the final discard from my narcissistic (and sociopathic?) husband. I’m hoping it’s the case. He’s divorcing me and I want to be rid of him for good this time.
    He left me multiple times over the years we were together, but he always came back. Usually within days, if not hours.
    Now it’s been months and his hatred for me has only increased. I’m not fighting him on the divorce. I want him gone.
    But I have fears that someday he will come back for more.

    0
      1. He hates you because you (in his eyes) failed him by not providing him with what he wanted. That is why you were discarded. Read 5 Reasons Why We Discard You and that will give you a better idea of why we do it and therefore why the hatred manifests.

        0
      2. Good insight. I did read that one I believe a couple of weeks ago and I think it was because he “broke” me too much, so to speak. I was down and out.
        I was diagnosed with PTSD from our relationship this week. I had panic attacks all throughout our relationship and since he left…not a single one.
        Now just to get this divorce over with.

        0

Leave a Reply