The Empathic Supernova


What is the Empathic Supernova?

In order to detail this phenomenon, it is first necessary to consider when it might appear and what is behind its appearance.

The repeated application of our manipulations is deployed for the purposes of maintaining control over you. This control reinforces our notion of superiority,  omnipotence and impregnability and enables us to draw fuel from our appliances and most of all you as our primary source.

I have made mention of the Empathic Group, the group which lies to the left of the empathic-narcissistic spectrum and within this group there are four schools of the empathic individual; the Co-Dependent, the Super Empath, the Contagion Empath and the Standard Empath.

The sustained application of the many and varied manipulations produces results for us. It also takes its toll on our victims. The Co-Dependent will cling on, desperate for the self-definition which manifests as a consequence of their ensnarement with us. They will soak up the abuse, the confusion and the control until they reach a point of breakdown. The cumulative effect of the silent treatments, the gas lighting, the physical abuse, the psychological trauma, financial mistreatment and sexual degradation eventually causes the limpet-like Co-Dependent to collapse into numbness, malfunction and potential hospitalisation. They gave and gave until suddenly they fell off the cliff and their fuel provision remained impressive on Monday and by Tuesday it had stopped. No longer capable of pumping out fuel, attending to our requirements and showering us with appropriate traits and residual benefits, this failure to function invariably brings about the discard of this individual. The discarded Co-Dependent, although distraught at the loss of the narcissist which they crave, is in no position to try to bring about the resumption of the relationship and thus, whilst we focus on their replacement primary source, they are allowed a period by which they can recover and once the lights switch back on again and the fuel starts to pump, the devaluation of their replacement has begun, so we come looking and hoovering for the Co-Dependent. Unable to resist, because of the nature of the hoovering and their own vulnerability, they are hoovered back in and the narcissistic cycle continues.

Whilst third parties may try to assist the Co-Dependent to see and understand what has happened to them, their own substantial need to connect with a narcissist means it is very hard to make them take notice and stay away from us. Unless physically removed and isolated, the Co-Dependent will drift back to us. If not the original narcissist, a replacement narcissist will invariably be found.

The empathic-narcissistic spectrum is a sliding scale that represents both empathic and narcissistic traits. On the far left the empathic traits are more numerous and stronger whilst the narcissistic traits are fewer and weaker. Move to the right and the empathic traits begin to lessen in number, their effects less evident and the narcissistic traits begin to increase and become more prevalent. Eventually, as one reaches the Narcissistic Group, on the right of this spectrum, the empathic traits have disappeared and all that remain are narcissistic traits which become more numerous and stronger the further right one goes within this Narcissistic Group.

Accordingly, with the Co-Dependent, he or she will have many empathic traits and they are strong in nature. Their devotion to love, their honesty, decency, excellent listening skills, positivity etc are most evident and contribute to create a highly empathic individual. The narcissistic traits are almost invisible and the few that exist are weak. Accordingly, this prevalence of empathic traits attracts and is attracted to the prevalence of extensive and strong narcissistic traits. They locked together, complementing one another and consequently the Co-Dependent is inexorably drawn to those within the Narcissistic Group, with next to nothing in terms of their own narcissistic traits to act as some kind of repellant.

The Standard Empath may also find themselves shutting down, but more usually they are prevented from reaching a position of complete numbing though the intervention of a third party. Sure enough the toll exacted on the Empath is considerable and has damaging consequences, but, in general, they manage to avoid more often the fate of the Co-Dependent. Instead, rather than giving and giving until shut down occurs (as is the case with the Co-Dependent) the Empath’s performance deteriorates in terms of fuel output in a more gradual fashion which means that when it dips below a threshold of acceptability for our kind, the Empath is also discarded. Not so damaged as to be unable to function, the Empath will endeavour to re-connect with our kind, having sufficient energy and ability to do so, but they will be shunned as part of this discard until it is time to hoover them. Unaware of what they have been ensnared by and with capabilities improved after a period of respite arising from the discard, the Empath is sucked back in by the narcissist and thus the narcissistic cycle continues.

The Standard Empath however may also realise that something is wrong, or assisted by third parties and more amenable to listening, takes notice of what these third parties are telling him or her. They have a moment of ‘awakening’ and with that realise that they must remain away from our grip, however hurtful and hard it may be and thus they eventually escape, putting distance between them and our kind.

The Empath has numerous empathic traits and they are of strength but they are not on the same scale as the Co-Dependent. The Empath will have some narcissistic traits, not many and not especially strong in nature, but they will have more narcissistic traits than the Co-Dependent. Their status as an Empath (along with the fact that there are more Empaths than Co-Dependents) means that Empaths become the bread and butter target for our kind. They too are attracted to us, not with the almost hopeless vulnerability of the Co-Dependent, but they remain not only attracted to our kind but a target.


Finally, there is the Super Empath. The Super Empath is an excellent provider of fuel also and comes with a confidence and a fieriness which proves most tempting to our kind. The Super Empath sees his or her role as helping, fixing, healing and bringing goodness to those around them. They have considerable energy, they are capable and their capacity for sustaining our abuses also makes them a considerably attractive prospect. The Co-Dependent can sustain considerable abuse until suddenly, like a light being extinguished, that is it. The Empath also can sustain our manipulations but their slide is slower and more gradual. The Super Empath, blessed with a vast capacity for empathy and goodness is also somebody who can sustain a lengthy campaign of abuse. There is no slide downwards with this individual like the Empath. There is no sudden collapse like the Co-Dependent. Instead the Super Empath goes in to Supernova mode.

The trait make-up of the Super Empath is different from their cousins in the Empathic Group. Whereas the Co-Dependent has strong and many empathic traits with little and low narcissistic traits and the Empath has few and fairly low narcissistic traits but more and quite strong empathic traits, the Super Empath has a different constitution.

The Super Empath has very strong and numerous empathic traits. He or she also has a number of narcissistic traits (more than the Co-Dependent and the Empath but not as many as the Narcissistic Group) and they are stronger in nature than those experienced by the Co-Dependent and the Empath.

This arrangement is not problematic. Liken the Super Empath’s narcissistic make-up to the light from a candle and their empathic make-up the light from a spotlight. The intensity of the spotlight is so bright that the candle light is barely noticed. Accordingly, the narcissistic element to the Super Empath does not appear. The Super Empath behaves in an empathic way and thus is a target for our kind.

There comes a time however when the sustained abuse and the awareness of the Super Empath reaches a critical point. Rather than switch off or slide into decline, the Super Empath will decide that enough is enough. In some instances, this means that the Super Empath will escape and follow a similar route to that of the Empath and distance themselves from the narcissist.

On other occasions they enter into Supernova mode. When this happens, the Super Empath will dim their empathic traits. This can only be dimming. The empathic traits cannot be shut off as they are wired into the empath’s dna. Moreover, this dimming can only continue for a period of time and is not permanent. The naturally strong empathic nature of the Super Empath means that it will blaze bright again.

However, when this dimming takes places, the gap between empathy and narcissism in the Super Empath lessens so that the narcissistic traits are more prevalent. They do not dominate nor do they take over, but they are allowed to ‘shine’. However, whereas in our kind the application of our narcissistic traits is unfettered since we have no empathic traits and thus these traits are directed in a malevolent, harmful and destructive manner, the Super Empath uses these unleashed narcissistic traits for ‘good’.

This means that they will fight back against our kind and remain in the relationship with us. They will shut off the fuel provision, they will engage in manipulation of us, having learned how to effect it form their accompanying journey with our kind. The Super Empath will wound and wound, striking blow upon blow against the narcissist.  It is worth pointing out that the Super Empath does not necessarily know that they are with a narcissist (they may only realise this later) but rather they know that something is very wrong in the relationship and it must no longer continue.

Thus when some people ask the question

“Can you become a narcissist from being with a narcissist?”


“Can I pick up narcissistic traits from my experience of being entangled with a narcissist?”

The answer remains no.

But, if you find that you are exhibiting such traits and you are deploying them against the narcissist, what has happened is that you are allowing your inherent narcissistic traits to have greater prominence. You keep them under control and you are not allowing them to harm or hurt innocent parties, but rather you are applying them against the narcissist in order to strike back. You always had these traits, you have not gained them by being with us, but what you have learned is how to manipulate from being with us and now you are turning those manipulations against us.

The effect against us is varied.

The Lesser Narcissist will discard immediately with a display of ignited fury as he seeks to escape the turning of the tables. He will need to get away from this empowered Super Empath and find a new primary source straight away. He wants to shrink from this blazing  supernova of power which is causing him considerable difficulty through the cessation of fuel and the wounding from repeated criticism.

The Mid-Range Narcissist will find himself in a tormented loop as he tries to assert control. He will not comprehend truly what is happening. He will not want to lose the Super Empath owing to the fuel provision, but he is finding that his ability to manipulate is being sorely tested. He will try to assert his control through passive aggressive means, even pleading with the Super Empath to stop and ‘why can’t you be good to me again’? He will roll out the pity plays and sympathy cards in order to try to achieve superiority again. However,  either the Super Empath decides to escape and leaves the Mid-Ranger in a confused and bewildered state or the Mid-Ranger slinks away and discards,unable to sustain the fight and needing a new and far more compliant primary source.

The Greater Narcissist will rail against this insurrection and fight back. He will draw on fuel from alternative sources (usually the IPSS or IPSSs he has in the wings along with fuel from those NISS who are his inner and outer circle friends). He will relish the challenge shown by the Super Empath and a real battle of wills ensues as each combatant deploys manipulation after manipulation against one another. This hammer and tongs clash of the  titans sees the Super Empath applying what they have learned, similar to the apprentice turning on his or her master, as the old hand seeks to slap down the irreverent upstart. The Super Empath may withdraw and escape, satisfied that they have made their mark and scarred the Greater. The Greater may ultimately recognise that only a stalemate (for now) can ensue and breaks off, discarding the Super Empath and focusses on the acquisition of a new primary source (or more likely the promotion of an already ensnared IPSS). The Greater however will not leave matters there. A note will be made to rejoin battle in due course and bring the Super Empath to heel.

Thus the Empathic Supernova is when the Super Empath determines that enough is enough and he or she reduces their empathic traits, allowing the narcissistic traits to come to the fore and in so doing he or she trains their sights on making life difficult, miserable and awkward for the narcissist. This is why our kind proceed with caution with the Super Empath. Their capacity for sucking up the abusive devaluation and their impressive fuel provision is tempting indeed, but reaching the critical point and causing the ignition of the Empathic Supernova can have dire consequences for our kind.

Not for me of course. I relish the challenge and the assertion of hegemonic dominance. Obviously.


449 thoughts on “The Empathic Supernova

  1. titiakonijn says:

    Ok WOW. Just WOW….

    I had more then one narc relationship. I like their charisma, their “I do not care” mentality. They are the elephant that makes my path in the high grass, so I don’t have to.
    I don’t like to talk to people often, small talk is not for me. My narcs do that for me. They break the ice and when it gets interesting I jump in.

    I know that I use their methods on themselves. I even gaslight and giggle when I see confusion on their faces. I just keep a poker face and when I see the bewilderment, I start laughing. Knowing I learned from the best and the best is now pissed off because I pulled his leg!

    Also the lashing out is something I recognise in your writing.
    I lash out as long as I need to. I will use every dirty little detail I know to make him feel small. Every painful life experience I will smack in his face until I see him break.
    The man with the child in his eyes… #KateBush

    When that point is reached, I start again.
    You want to communicate like this, or shall we try again the civilised way?

    Mind you, I do not use this narc methods on a dayley basis. I use them when I am attacked verbally or made fool off when I express my needs or feelings.

    I did not know that this was concidered as a super empath. I somethimes thought I was turning in to one, a narc I mean.
    But me crying at a gentle gesture, or cheesy movie tells me enough.
    I am poweful because I can go both ways. Also I can project myself into another persons feelings, since I can emphasise in his shoes. Feeling and feeding the shame and hurt him when he goes too far.

    One told me: You’re stronger then me. You know how to hurt me hard, your words are like blows to the head.
    And I just smiled and gave him some positive fuel to trigger his dopamine to keep him quiet. Looked him deep in the eyes and say…. “I’m so in love with you, you are f*cking gorgeous” and off he went, melting….
    He must have been a mid ranger, I don’t know. Guess he went on to a less powerful victim after me! :))
    Got bored of him anyway. One trick pony he was.

    Thank you for making me aware of who I am Mr. Tudor.

    1. Daywalker says:

      The man with the child in his eyes, oh yes, I can definitely relate to that!
      A very important song for me.
      Always drawn to difficult men, suffered, endured, fought them and left them. In the end I’ve always turned into a narcissist. Did the triangulation, the smear campaign (to a point) but never really got satisfaction. I wanted love, wanted them to change, wanted to fix them but only to a certain point. If they failed one time too many and i suffered too much from my point of view… they’d be gone. At some point they always come back. But once I ‘m fed up I’m fed up. I never want this to happen, i tell them… if only they could “sober up” in time… and they get some chances, don’t they? However, although I find some pleasure in hurting them afterwards by just ignoring them I still feel sad sometimes. They could have the best and destroyed it. Poor people…

      1. titiakonijn says:

        I find them fascinating. Test them and see if I get the response I predict.
        I was “chosen” because of my high morals, I detest liars and he always mockingly called me a saint.
        Funny thing was, he could not tell when I was lying. He accused me of lying when I was not, making sure I defended myself so he could make more fuss out of it. But when I decided to turn the table, started using him for my own benefits, making stories up to help and maintain his fairytale world, he would totally buy it!

        I think of myself as a honest person, but he liked me better when I was telling him “his” story and so lying.
        I played a part in his make believe world and I was chosen en groomed to for fill the role he created for me.
        Filling in how I would feel, what I would say, how I would react in certain circumstances.

        You are going to cry when you see this, he said.
        No I won’t.
        Please let me think that you will cry when Ilet you see this?
        Eh……. Nope? Why wouldI cry?
        You can cry, but I will not.
        This was a conversation about hi taking me to Rome one day.
        That day never came, at that point I was sure he was mental.

  2. mamaenfp says:

    “A note will be made to rejoin battle in due course and bring the Super Empath to heel.” Say the Super Empath does indeed heal and doesn’t respond to hoovering?

    “…reaching the critical point and causing the ignition of the Empathic Supernova can have dire consequences for our kind.” I find it interesting that you say there are dire consequences. What is a dire consequence other than fuel loss for a Greater? Is it perhaps a loss of the BEST fuel, if that exists? Would you say that it is possible for an Empathic Supernova to also feel fueled by the Greater?

    1. red says:

      I had the question too, thank u for asking it.

  3. mamaenfp says:

    I met my ex-boyfriend September of 2015. I am on my 3rd day of true “No Contact.” I couldn’t believe how well this article described us. He devalued me not long after we started seeing each other. He strung me along for months. One day he wanted a child with me, the next I caught him on eharmony. I got pregnant. He stayed over the night before a trip. I got up and I was soaked with blood. He is a nurse. He saw it. He left for his NY trip and I went alone to the ER. He not only left me to miscarry by myself he discarded me by telling me he had been seeing someone else. I threw a brief fit and promptly went back to my ex.
    A couple months later I had coffee with him. I wanted to hate him, yet I couldn’t. I saw the girl in a picture, she looked trashy. I told him I would be embarrassed if I were him and I asked if he realized she wasn’t even as attractive as him. The girls I caught him talking to on eharmony were unattractive. I get that looks aren’t everything, yet he always seemed like a perfectionist. He had two nose jobs.
    I have excused his bad behavior in the past. I have empathized with him to a fault. I have battled my own selfish behavior and avoidant traits. His most recent behavior has angered me and I said a lot of things that are true, yet hurtful. I typically try to empathize and talk things out with him. I told him I was bored with him and that he dates down because I was out of his league to begin with.
    He is completely blocked. I don’t wish to go out of my way to make his life hard, I just don’t wish to have a shallow person like him in my life anymore. There were no real conversations about life or interests, just about him. He was rarely happy.
    I imagine he thought I was throwing a fit and that I will always be there. His charm and sob stories are almost laughable now. I no longer pity him. He once said he wondered if he were a sociopath. Funny enough, I reassured him that he wasn’t.
    I loved your article. It makes me wonder if he’ll realize what perfect “supply” he lost.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Mamaenfp and thanks for sharing your situation. He may mourn the loss of your fuel, but not for long. He will be drinking up fuel from elsewhere and will no doubt come looking to hoover you at some point.

      1. mamaenfp says:

        I always excused his need for additional fuel until recently. I am sure he is trying to hoover me as I type. I am enjoying the fact that I cut him off this time and that I don’t miss him. I am definitely relating to the whole Super Empath turning a bit narcissistic right now. Your blog is awesome.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you.

          1. mamaenfp says:


  4. serenity1066 says:

    I said it would never happen to me again, but I just got hoovered. The love bombing feels amazing, even though I KNOW it won’t end well. But I’m an empathic supernova…I’m noticing everything and waiting for my move….
    Great article! I was wondering if I was turning into a narc myself

  5. Jennie Dell says:

    HG, I take issue with just one thing you wrote – that empathy is “hard wired into DNA”. Because I know people – not many – who entirely lack empathy under any circumstances, I would argue that empathy is learned, not congenital. But I would love for you to unpack your theory for me!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hi Jennie, thanks for your comment. I agree with you that people lack empathy under any circumstances, I am one of them. I was referring to those who are empathic that their empathy is in effect hard-wired into DNA. I used that to describe how someone is empathic cannot switch that empathy off because it is part of them, it can be dimmed but not removed. You may well be right that empathy is learned and if so then once it has been learned it cannot be unlearned. Alternatively, it forms as part of some people but not as others, but once it is there, it remains there. Thus my point was that once someone has this empathy they cannot just jettison it, it is as much a part of them as their DNA, that was what I was seeking to convey.

      1. Victory says:

        Hi Jennie. When you continue your research on NSP into nuerology you will find empathy is hard wired very young 4-5 yrs of age. Some are born without these synapses & some are stopped from developing these by circumstances. If these are not created in childhood it is impossible to create later. At least so far. I wish you healing & keep reading & learning.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you Victory.

  6. Ana Frost says:

    This will be my last comment here. Your article made me examine what l was doing and why l was acting out with such anger. I realized l needed to heal my wounds. That my “bounce back ability” was really just me repressing the unbearable pain. So l took a few steps back and what l saw was terrifying….l had become the very things that had poisoned me. I broke down and cried. I did what l could to repair any damage l had caused. I forgave, both myself and my narcs. I no longer hold any anger or resentment. I left things on good terms with them. I even expressed appreciation for the lessons they had taught me about myself. I wished them well and then blocked off all contact. Now l can begin my journey to find and reconnect with myself again. Being here has been insightful and l can’t thank you enough for what you have taught me but it is also a reminder of the hurt and pain that is now in my past. Time to put that behind me so l can embrace myself once more. Thanks HG! You will always have my deepest appreciation.

  7. Lolo says:

    HG, you are incredibly astute to have captured my Supernova nature so perfectly. My Greater Narcissist had no idea what he was getting into when he met me … so many codependents and empaths had come before me but, in me, he found his muse. I am — and I will always remain — his everything:
    – his wife, who looks like a playboy playmate and made love to him like a porn star.
    – his nurturer, who made him feel more loved than his own mother.
    – his loyal warrior, who had his back in every situation.
    – the only one brave enough to stand up to him without being star-struck of his success or feeling dominated by his power.
    I am the only person who has seen the darkness in his heart, but who still chose to accept and love him unconditionally anyway by not hating him for all the hurt and chaos he has brought to so many lives. But because he is a Greater Narcissist, he was unable to do what was necessary to sustain a lasting relationship. He has tried to Hoover so many times, and in so many ways this past year; but because after eight long years I’ve learned how to become friends with the storm instead of allow it to break me, I am able to maintain having no contact. Unfortunately for him, I will forever be his Celestial Nymph, forever causing cosmic warfare with his soul. I escaped.

  8. Ah, this makes things more clear now. They teach us that having narcissistic qualities are usually “fleas” from being with a narc and that they will fade over time. Good, I wasn’t going to change anyhow, lol! I have to keep that saucy edge!

    I do like this post, and I do love the Empath Supernova… we sound so extraterrestrial! <3

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The flea concept is bollocks. I will expand on this presently.

      1. I agree, it is just an excuse to dismiss your own behavior. As empaths, we are aware of how our actions affect others… I don’t know about everyone else but I like to THINK before I speak, when I am in a less than desirable mood, BECAUSE I AM aware of how nasty I can be. I can dig and throw just as much fire towards anyone else as a narcissist does but I know the hurt and watch my words carefully!

  9. Snow White says:

    Hi Indy,
    We all learn as we go along how to parent. I wish I knew what I know now. Lol… I have made many mistakes.
    Glad there is a happy ending. You are a wonderful person and I’m sure she was proud to have you as a daughter.

  10. Snow White says:

    Indy, Narcangel, and Love,

    Beaver pelts, fur lined bras, and torpedo ta ta tas OH MY!!!!!
    That’s a variety. I will pack the leather bras and studded pants.
    And some fireball whiskey! 🔥That will warm us all up.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      Snow White

      Ummm…. Shouldn’t you be packing apples? Poison ones? Im counting on you to look innocent and lure them with your ahem…apples. Poison or otherwise. We can always use them to whip at their huge fuel filled craniums.

      1. Indy says:

        Yes build you basket full of shiny poison apples!!🍎🍎🍎 I got the liquor!

      2. Snow White says:

        I am always whipping up a batch of poison apples around here.
        Then I will wear lace and heels if that is the look we are going for.
        And a red bow in my hair as I’m batting my eyelashes. 😉🍎

        1. 1jaded1 says:

          And with your hair extensions, I’m sure you look mahvellous, SW.

          1. Snow White says:

            Awwwwww, thanks Jaded!!!
            Btw, I would love a tour of Detroit! I would feel safe in your car.

    2. Love says:

      Thanks Snow! I will bring the Best of Lionel Richie cd. 😉

      1. Indy says:

        Nooooo not Lionel Ritchie!!!! It’s like an ice pick to the ears!!

  11. BraveHeart says:

    This article is so incredible. The entire time I was with my 1st ex-Lesser H-Narc (6 yrs), he was physically, mentally, verbally and emotionally abusive. The relationship came to an end when I finally decided the f**ker was no longer going to lay his hands on me. The last time he did, was when I (all of 5’2″ and 100 lbs.) turned on him and pummelled him into the ground as he curled up into a fetal position. When I saw him like that, I stopped in my tracks and actually saw him as a little boy being abused by his father again. That’s when I knew I was done. I knew there was no way in hell I was going to make anyone ever feel that way by my hands and I left and never looked back.

    As for my last relationship with the ex-MN (still can’t decide if he’s a Mid-range or Greater), I knew I had done all I could to meet his goal posts, which were constantly moving, and there were no more excuses he could make that would ever be okay for me to stay any longer. I gave him a deadline and three days before, he discarded me out of the blue. That was 9 months ago and he still has not hoovered me.

    HG, I know for a fact that I am a Super Empath who kicks into Supernova gear once I’ve determined that enough is enough. I will most definitely reduce my empathic traits and make life difficult, miserable and awkward for the narcissist. However, with that said, I have to sign up for a session with you so I can, once and for all, get to the bottom of who my most recent narc really is. It’s driving me crazy to get him figured out, but I’ll have to do it after the holidays. I’m so thankful you have provided other avenues for us to learn from you.

    Thank you!

    P.S. I also know that I have always had this super power inside of me (and that I did not learn it from the narcs in my life) and that’s why I think I’ve always given more chances than I should. I’ve always wanted to make sure that I’ve done all that I could from my end to give it my all, but once I’m done, I’m done and then there’s no turning back and my ex-MN knew, and knows that about me. Thus why I think he has yet to hoover me. He knows for a fact that I would criticize and wound him further.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome. Your first paragraph sums up a Super Empath very well – striking back but still held in check by empathic traits.

  12. HG: Btw accurate piece about the Supernova 🙂 Great work as per usual!

  13. ANarcsNightmare says:

    Some STRIKING words HG –

    1. Finally, there is the Super Empath. The Super Empath is an excellent provider of fuel also and comes with a confidence and a fieriness which proves most tempting to our kind.

    2. The Super Empath will wound and wound, striking blow upon blow against the narcissist.

    3. The Mid-Range Narcissist will find himself in a tormented loop as he tries to assert control. He will not comprehend truly what is happening. He will not want to lose the Super Empath owing to the fuel provision, but he is finding that his ability to manipulate and the reasonable degree of calculation that he has, is being sorely tested.

    4. He will try to assert his control through passive aggressive means, even pleading with the Super Empath…

    5. Either the Super Empath decides to escape and leaves the Mid-Ranger in a confused and bewildered state…

    6. Thus the Empathic Supernova is when the Super Empath determines that enough is enough and he or she reduces their empathic traits, allowing the narcissistic traits to come to the fore and in so doing he or she trains their sights on making life difficult, miserable and awkward for the narcissist.

    All of these tools, as you and I have discussed over various phone consultations worked BRILLIANTLY. He has been reduced to nothing. Nothing. I devalued him. This was a friendship he turned into some game. He attempted to dethrone me. He oftentimes referred to me as the “Queen sitting on her Ivory Throne while building sandcastles in her mind”… He wanted to dethrone me. He wanted to strip me of the power, appeal and allure I have always exuded and will continue to exude.

    I win.

    This is some of your best work. Would you create a Narc Truth No. ____ entitled “We are a mystery” or something of the like with a vast abyss of nothingness behind that? It would accurately described what I found when I pulled back that veil.

    Thank you, HG. Your assistance has proved invaluable. We will speak again soon. I am sure.


    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are most welcome ANN.

  14. Selena says:

    Will the greater always wait and come back …. even if it had becone so bad that police were involved and you were ordered to stay away from us…… this is the most amazing thing I’ve read but can’t help feel disheartened that even after standing strong you say you will always come back when our guard is dropped….. so I’m guessing never ever drop your guard always no contact and ignore!!!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Selena, there is always the possibility that we will return subject to whether there is a Hoover Trigger and the Hoover Execution Criteria is met. There is a lot you can do to reduce the risk of those things happening and implementing and maintaining no contact is a large piece of that.

  15. DFA says:

    Thank you HG for confirming

  16. DFA says:

    I dont mean to jump in but can you clearfy how when an SE goes to this level started in another relationsship, Does she go after all narcissit or just the one she is invoved with?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The one involved with. Super Empaths are not Charles Bronson.

      1. HG : Charles Bronson, you are showing your age 😉 Let’s go with Charlie (Charlie Hotel Alpha Romeo Lima Indigo Echo) supernova sisters!

  17. Lvos11 says:

    Love learning about the differentiation of empaths. Would you say the supernova can also transfer across settings? Or just to the relationship with the narc? For example, could one relationship cause a “waking up” supernova where one applies it then to every other potential narcissistically entangled relationship, (work, friends, etc).

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Lvos11, yes it would apply to other narcissistic entanglements, it just the most obvious with the intimate partner entanglement.

  18. Lisa says:

    All ok now HG. Must have been my phone Im thinking. Thanks. 🙂

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Jolly good.

  19. DFA says:

    HG I sit here with tears slowly falling. What your work is doing, it’s hard to believe this is just the beginning, yet it is.
    You may not believe in hope, yet here it is. You are bringing hope to those that have been stumbling in the dark, bruised and beaten. Confused and lost.
    You have given them a place to learn not only what is going on in the dynamics of the relationship but what creates the narcissit.
    You are showing them a way out
    You bring light to the darkness.

  20. Lisa says:

    This…….was a SUPER READ!!! Nailed it HG! I am convinced I am a SE, turned Supernova. Its how it played out exactly with the ex Greater. Thanks to all my new found knowledge I am able to help a friend who finds herself dealing with, what I think is either a Mid Range or a Greater, (bit more time should tell. On the cusp if there is one) through hoovering/stalking situation. She’s not up to doing the research herself as yet, but never the less is asking me for advice. Its only a matter of time HG before I can lead her in your direction. So….Thank you from both of us. Greatly appreciated.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you Lisa and I look forward to welcoming your friend on board in the fullness of time.

      1. Lisa says:

        Hi HG. Ive not received a few of your emails (comments and confirm ones). Can you please check all is ok, your end? TIA.

  21. Sophia says:

    Thank you HG. I was the lower empath while wallowing in my misery. But some of us refuse to bow down even in the presence of all the flying monkeys.

  22. Ashes says:

    Hello HG, thank you very much for this article! I will make a song based on it, if you don’t mind.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      By all means, just as long as I get to listen to it.

  23. AH OH says:

    I enjoyed reading this.

  24. Rain says:

    Wowwwwwwww HG!!!! You nailed it..xoxoxo

  25. 1jaded1 says:

    HG. Does my previous comment regarding punishment for cso discount me from this? It’s okay. It does confirm that I’m not one of your kind. This post does bring enlightenment.

    I hope you aren’t offended if I call this a masterpiece. In my mind, it is.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No it does not discount you. Nor am I offended by it being described as a masterpiece, quite the contrary, it pleases me to know that it is recognised as such.

  26. HG, you cannot see me, but I’m standing up and applauding you. It’s a brilliant article! The supernova metaphor, the details of how we react, everything. Awesome! I’m not sure, but I think I’m an empathic supernova.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you Marcella.

  27. Snow White says:

    No wonder it felt like we clicked and belonged together. It’s because we did. I’m at one end and she’s at the other.
    You were right about having to be isolated from them. That would have been the only way for someone to have had the chance to talk some sense into me. I would have never left her without that.

  28. Starr says:

    I wonder how you would react if a female love bombs you and puts you on a pedestal and then gives you the silent treatment out of nowhere and then discard of you .

    What would you do ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Assuming that unlikely scenario would arise Starr, I would break the silent treatment. If they sought to escape me, I would drag them back in.

      1. Indy says:

        specify “drag”, just for my curiosity. Humor me.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Sheer magnetism/sheer intimidation

          1. Indy says:

            I believe you could do that too. Glad it wasn’t by the hair. When a child, I was dragged by the hair once. Hurts like hell.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            If I had to do that, I would, but it never proves necessary. Words are my tools.

          3. Indy says:

            You got that silver tongue, I have no doubt.

      2. Love says:

        Hi Indy. Your skin is thicker as an adult so hair pulling/dragging is not so painful. It can be enjoyable 😉

        1. Indy says:

          Ha-ha. Love,
          Yeah……cant see me submissing in that manner.

        2. Snow White says:

          Hi Love, I agree that it can too😉😉😉
          Your comment brought back some memories. Lol

          But terrible if it’s done to a child. That’s child abuse😡
          Sorry you had that sone Indy.

          1. Indy says:

            Yeah, my mother didn’t know better at the time. She whipped me pretty good a few times with a switch stick as well, until I bled. She didn’t know how to parent when we were young. With time, though, she matured and became a wonderful soul. Rest her soul.

        3. NarcAngel says:

          Playfully pulling hair, ok but you try to drag me by my hair and prepare to have your balls nailled to the floor with a stiletto heel. I say floor instead of wall ’cause after 40 their balls are already 1/2 way there anyhow. Its a wonder they don’t have to put them in a basket to keep them out of the toilet water.

          1. Indy says:

            NA! That was a visual, girl! Laughing…

      3. You can drag me anywhere, however, and whenever you like 😉

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Even to the scrapbooking room?

          Just curious. Were you upset about the scrapbook because the doormats were sold separately?

          1. Doormats sold separately? I’m confused…
            But yes i did mean anywhere. I surrendered to him last week. I cannot stand up to a Greater, especially HG.
            Do you really think he has an entire room devoted to the hideous scrapbook?😧😂😂

          2. NarcAngel says:


            Noooo!!!! Not a whole room. Thats just my fantasy lol

          3. A great fantasy it is!

          4. Indy says:

            Sure, right in that room next to where he keeps his knitting nettles…I mean needles.

          5. ROFL!!!!!😂😂😂😂😂

          6. And if he does have a room dedicated towards scrapbooking, let’s have a party in there. I’ll bring the brownies! have a feeling the power of the scrapbook for him may reduce!😄

    2. NarcAngel says:

      He is love bombed and placed on a pedestal here daily, and god knows we can’t be silent so I’d say hes safe.

    3. Great Question Starr and one I threw at N2 often. As I spoke it I thought about it more, then one day I raised my finger and said to him, Oh’ Oh’ surely to God that is not what happened that caused you to be so rotten in life and pay it out to others- surely you could not have guarded yourself that much because you who gives it out so readily, got a little used up and discarded by some girl a million years ago- He was like a frothing, raging pot of soup that was spilling over at the sides! What doesn’t tick him off is like asking the clock what happened to it’s minute hand- That makes no sense and that is what I have found that he consistently must have this (winheadspin) but there’s nothing up for grabs! Dialogue is like this: I sit on the leather sofa, he sits behind to an angle on the club armchair. I cannot see around the corner of the sofa to him, but he can see me. I ask: Have you seen the other black silk cushion? He from behind says, nup. I say, well it was there last night. He points to two other club chairs, there! Nope, I say they alway’s have the black cushion on them. Still-quiet. One cushion still missing. No talking. Suddenly he says, it is probably on the floor. I say, nope not infront of me and I was last on the sofa last night. He says, get off your @ss and look for it, I told you it is probably on the floor! I know his game, so say, nope I know it was not so shall not waste time as i have just sat down. All of a sudden he throws it at me, there you stupid bi@tch! Hmm- I say, what odd behaviour you have, you knew where it was as you put it there and since it is in your range of eyesight, you knew all along it was near your feet on the floor but you felt like a morning heart starter and I am having my coffee and not into playing musical cushions! WELL YOU STUPID ***EXPLETIVE XXX EXPLETIVE XXX R RATED COLOURFUL LANGUAGE- YOU SHOULD HAVE SHUT YOUR F@CKING MOUTH YOU DUMB BLAH BLAH! Too late, time for him to run off clutching mobile phone and retreat to his chamber where he manipulated the whole thing, knowing well I would wonder where the cushion was and yet if I had not asked about the cushion, I can guarantee that the punishment would be that the cushion would disappear for weeks because I did not ask and come in spinner to his consistent setups to manifest his delusion that he must force to become reality…weird sh!t and so totally him, so consistently! How do you explain this kind of crap HG? I still think he is a psychopath x adhd x histrionic x delusional x OCD, ODD, Tourettes, x x x x x x x x.

  29. Matilda says:

    “You keep them under control [your inherent narcissistic traits] and you are not allowing them to harm or hurt innocent parties, but rather you are applying them against the narcissist in order to strike back.”

    That is exactly it!

    I was so kind, loving, patient with him, I have never been so patient with anyone. In my entire life, I have told two people that I love them: a family member at death’s door, and him. I laid my soul bare saying these words, and the way he responded will haunt me forever.

    There comes a point where you know you are DONE. You have no more tears in you, all you want is justice. You know where it will hurt, and you strike without any remorse. He thinks he is still the master of the game but whatever he throws at you, you heard it all before. Narcs get predictable after a while. You do not feel the blows because your entire being is on fire, focused on the next strike, and the next, giving him no time for rest. You are determined to battle it out, however long it takes. There is no giving in. He starts to crumble, asking for a cease-fire, accusing you of having lost your humanity. I thought about it. What has become of me? I did not recognise myself anymore. Did I lose my humanity? ‘I lost it because of you’, was the answer.

    You strike back because he needs to be humbled. It is only just, and it serves him right. But there is no joy in victory. Both of us lost.

    1. Sarabella says:

      Yes. We both lost. I told him that. Whether he ever heard it. We both lost. We both lost because neither of us would back down.

      I disagree with the Noobie comment above. What I think is that when an empath goes Super Nova, her narc traits also fall on a similar spectrum of lesser/mid/greater. I was very much showing those traits on a lesser level in the beginning. Stung by his criticism in all the ways a narc would be, reacting blindly and destructively. As my understanding grew, I reacted more like a Mid. And I leaned more towards greater in the end. Traits mind you, not being one. I learned to identify my reactions better and make choices about how to move the responses. My moving along that spectrum also coincided with the mind/heart battle. As I left the heart and grieved, and moved to the mind and reality, my traits changed to the greater direction.

      About labels, no, I am not going to run around even calling myself an empath or Super nova or feel special. But if we can all relate to all these things, then the patterns are real. And I want to really know my patterns and accept mine. I also have been called special in my life and not like other people and not mainstream and I have had no idea why or what people are referring to. I think they are speaking about all this…..

      I am not attracted to narcs. THEY are attracted to me. And all that happens to me is I get stuck, like a bee landing in honey. And I want to know why and HG’s blog is great for digging into why we are chosen. Invaluable information that is coming at just the right time.

  30. Hope says:

    Towards the end of the relationship, I found myself exhibiting some of his Narcissist tendencies towards him. Wound up very confused – asking myself if it was me that was the Narcissist. Even took some online quizzes on it, with results 100% that I’m not.

    Some of the websites I read refer to this as catching “Narcissistic Fleas.” (I disagree with that – thought of it as self-preservation and growth on the empath’s end. More of an awareness leading to strength.)

    I like your explanation much more, it is more logical and accurate.
    This is actually my favorite article of yours, so far. The one question that was almost impossible to be sure of.

    What is your opinion of the “fleas” term for this phenomena, HG?

  31. Indy says:

    Wow. now I understand the dance I had with my re recent ex narcicist. I engaged in dimming and purposeful battles from May to July (2 months) and couldn’t maintain it. I was battling for justice and truth and for understanding…that never came. My line in the sand arrived and I left. He was confused, desperate, and in a frenzy after my leaving.

    I understand more where I fall on this spectrum too. Makes sense! I too thought I was possibly part narcicist because of the strength I have developed over the years. Based on this description, I would not be codependent at all. Still, based on 12 step, I would. Interesting distinctions here. I always love how you make your own diagnostic classifications with such insight. Spooky good!

  32. Okay, there are bright people, smart people, intelligent people, and gifted people on this big blue marble….and then there is HG. In a league of his own. Your brilliance is maddening delicious HG.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I am obliged Triple B.

  33. DFA says:

    Intriguing HG, I do enjoy reading your work. Your insights are by far accurate and one of a kind. This information is unattainable anywhere else.

  34. MLA - Clarece says:

    Explain to me more on the following, “He will relish the challenge shown by the Super Empath and a real battle of wills ensues as each combatant deploys manipulation after manipulation against one another.” Does this kind of interaction personally, bring you the most edifying feeling of power if it’s not bringing someone tears of joy? Do you also equate this kind of obvious interaction with what some would call “stormy”, “passionate”, “volatile”, “intense chemistry” because they would not be aware or know this could be a narcissistic entanglement? I mean, this kind of dynamic between two people, if they are unaware of what it is, can be completely addictive with both getting under each other’s skins the way no one else can.
    Also, to give a better point of reference, can you tell me where some of your past girlfriends you’ve written about fall in this spectrum of co-dependent thru SuperNova Empath? I.E., Karen? Caroline? Olivia? Alex? Lesley (IT girl)? The College Girlfriend you triangulated with the hometown girl? And I’ll throw in Kim if you’re willing to share but I understand if you don’t want to.

  35. Ana Frost says:

    You said they eventually return? I don’t want to remain in this state for much longer. It feels very foreign to my loving nature. I’m worried it might permanently alter me.

  36. NarcAngel says:

    Wow! Just… Talk about clearing up a lot in one fell swoop. Thank you

  37. Impressed says:

    Well bloody hell haha here I was thinking I’m narcissist. Just learning to play fire with fire.
    Dangerous game
    On another note, I always read your posts in my head in your accent.
    Get out of my head H D 😉

    1. Impressed says:

      Narcissistic rather 😉

    2. Lady Di says:

      I laughed out loud when I read that others also read these posts and hear his unique voice as if he was narrating to you from the written text. That has been the case after I heard the first interview and then began reading these posts. Another of your “great” assets H. G.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        I am obliged Lady Di.

  38. Disintegrated says:

    I prefer to read You than to sleep…..soooo amazing! Bravo dear G.!
    little question for You …. can someone be mix of these 3 above? I am very perplexed after reading that article …unless You could simply tell me WHO am I?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      A mix of the three schools? No, you are one or the other. Or the other.

      1. Disintegrated says:

        so codependant. … but after so many years and during my life I have never broken up to the point where I’d needed to be hospitalised… or ot is not always the case?

  39. Forgiven says:

    I explain this because there are some who do not understand my reasons for things and …whatever. I just cannot please everyone, though I have tried.

  40. Forgiven says:

    I sometimes stick around Mr. Tudor so I do not go back to last “monster of mine”. I am sort of replacing him with you, if this makes sense. Yet, I do not feel heartbroken anymore and am thoroughly glad he is GONE, especially due to all the things I have read from Mr. Tudor that helps me to see the last “monster of mine” so much more clearly. It’s so point on.

  41. CC says:

    You know what is even better, when you are free from ALL of these illusions. Power plays, stalemate, check mate, ego driven from the co co deee, ego driven from the sup sup empath, ego maniac from the narcty narc narc. Been there, all of it. Still deal with it, but I do so without CHAINS.

    Wake up.

    From the narc to the codependent on the line, as long as you are tied, and have that rush from “showing him” or find it fun and validating to take on a challenge to “fix” or just admit it’s so fun to challenge the deranged, you are not free, and when the so called empathetic traits of a hurting heart for others finally get stripped down to its core the simple truth is, its all bullshit, you are not super anything, except super caged, super trained, and super conditioned.

    Moderation is mundane and boring, everybody has to be special, I’m a special kind of sensitive called the super empath, I’m a special kind of evil called the Greater Narcissist, I’m a special kind of codependent, I’m the favorite kind of special target narcissist likes.

    What if I told you, you are NOT special anything. That you are more or less, like the other billions of people on this planet? Humans love labels, we love putting things in boxes, you go here, and you go there, you belong here but not there.

    The truth is most people are BORING, and UNIMAGINATIVE, and so they create chaos, they despise healthy people and healthy relationships, because in their mind, healthy is boring. Now a lot of it does have to do with how and who they were raised by, it is all they know, burned into their brains, and so they repeat their parents legacies and pass those down to their own children, so the cycle goes and goes and goes.

    Evolving would be to RE-TRAIN your brain, to fight against all those feel good chemicals that get released in your brain and to look at life in a more rational, logical way. We have the ability to choose everything we think about everything we act on, everything we accept and don’t accept. We have the power of choice.

    Freedom is waking up, AND then applying reality to your being, but that’s a tough road, because your addicted to all the chemicals your brain releases, and to go cold turkey on that is harder than anything any man can attempt to make on this planet.
    Yet, we have the ability to do so. From one end of the spectrum, to the other, it is your ego that gets in the way, it is your ego that causes pain, it is your ego that feels pain.

    I am guilty of this too.

    I don’t know, but I am a recovering codependent I own that shit, and I have realized that my acts of kindness, wanting to just help, be nice, and giving to others, being polite, the first to apologize, etc etc, was one hell of a ego trip. Let’s face it, even empathetic people have done some pretty mean and shitty things, they are not exempt from being human.

    This IS WHY THEY ALWAYS DISAPPOINT YOU ISN’T IT HG? You describe your missing puzzle your counterpart as some angelic being from heaven, and guess what, they are just flesh, and we all know how sinful flesh is……

    1. Indy says:

      Hi CC,

      There is soo much I really like in here what you wrote! Indeed, it is a battle of addiction and egos. An everyday battle of self respect too. Own our shit, all of us!! Yes, yes, yes! Say “no”, don’t apologize unless you hurt someone, never apologize for your opinion or value system. Labels are not magical specialness or reality. They are just labels to help us quickly sum up what someone may experience. Don’t give them more or less power. Work on your own shit, and they work on theirs….no one needs to rescue anyone. That is on them 🙂

      Amen!! Rock on!

      1. CC says:

        Thank you, I was afraid I came off too harsh!

        1. Indy says:

          To me, you came off as strong and owning your stuff and telling us all to remain awake 🙂 As a 12-step defined co-dependent myself, I see what you said as caring, strong and caring.

          1. NarcAngel says:

            Indy and CC

            Here here! I second that! It was direct and we need to hear it like that sometimes. Harsh? Not at all. You cant get any harsher than the owner of this joint and we love him for it so wonder no longer.

          2. CC says:

            Thank you Narcangel it is still new territory for me, to speak so boldly!

          3. Indy says:

            Preach it, CC!! 😊

          4. CC says:

            Indy, I admit I have not gone through any 12 steps, I have studied and researched and studied and researched and filled my brain with so much information that has helped with my self recovery.

            The thing for me the one thing that has helped me tremendously has been taking the power back from my abusers and the abuse I have suffered from. Yes I was abused, yes that was wrong and it was not my fault. But what now? What about me, and isn’t that what the abuser does in the first place, strip you of you, and make it about them? So I began a journey into me and began owning all my shit, and I have to tell you that has been far more empowering than just focusing on what was done to me. Thank you for you insightful and kind words.

  42. Ana Frost says:

    l nearly cried reading this. For awhile now l thought l was turning into a narcissist. I use love as a weapon. And l push back and even juggle more then one narcisist at a time. I’ve even triangulated. I’m down to one now who l actually really care for. He is a greater, like you, but his games no longer have an affect on me and he’s gradually using them less and less. We still talk all the time. Until l read this, l thought something was wrong with me. I didn’t know why l
    started using the same games that were so harmful. Thank you for helping me understand why l am like this. Your blog is truly life changing!

    1. Sues says:

      This made me feel empowered as I am the description of the Empath Super Nova. It makes me want to challenge.. Of course I only will when pushed to that point . , but this totally explains me 🙂

  43. Victory says:

    What timing. I had feared as of late, I was becoming an N. Bringing it full circle once again.

  44. Mel says:

    Wow! This explains my narcissist ex and I perfectly, he being a midrange(somatic), and I a super empath. So enlightening. Thanks

  45. Brian says:

    The super-empath is still at a great disadvantage because they are noobs to this game, and still have common decency 🙂

    Have you noticed that narc’s really go to work on someone in the car?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Brian, correct and valid points.

      You second comment is rather timely.

    2. Indy says:

      Hi Brian,

      I have to respectfully disagree with the observation that Super Empaths are Newbs, from my own experience. I went in the opposite direction, I went from a quiet pleaser type in my 20’s with silent growing going on in the background with therapy, professional and personal growth emerging. In my 30’s I developed a voice and started to become more comfortable with my anger and my inner warrior and held to my values. In my 40’s, I have become simultaneously both soft and hard. I have a lot of acceptance for a broad range of people, personalities, etc and love those differences AND once my line/boundaries (i.e. abuse, disrespect, etc.) is crossed, I take no prisoners. I am done. I see this as growth from the previous years of not knowing my own power and voice. I have had relationships with several people with narcissism, traits of it and addiction issues since my teen years. I know it is a pattern of mine and up to me to deal with and grow from. And, once abused and disrespected, at this point in my life, I have shortened my time in these interactions and do not look back.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        All fair enough Indy and thanks for adding that. I suspect where Brian is coming from is that when a SE first throws off the shackles if you will and engages in fighting back, he or she is applying manipulative techniques for largely the first time as against somebody who has been engaging in them for a long time. Thus it is, as I described, like apprentice tackling master. Further, we have no conscience, remorse or guilt whereas you do and eventually (as the empathic traits shine again) you don’t go as far as we might.

        1. Indy says:

          I see, I read it completely differently. I thought Brian was calling SE newbs in the continuum of empaths in general. Now, when compared to a narcissist, all of us empaths are “newbs” at the dark art of manipulation. Sure.

          However, there are exceptions to this rule too. Folks raised in narcissistic and addicted households also learn the dark arts pretty early on to survive the chaos. Yes, we have empathy and thus it goes against our value system to continue on the battle endlessly in comparison to a narcissist.

          1. NarcAngel says:

            True INDY

            Some of us have witnessed the dark arts and are a quick study with plenty of rage at the ready ( licks the blade then uses it to position a stray eyebrow hair……)

          2. Indy says:

            Yep, and others of us are stealth fighters. Come when you least expect it. **pst, that would be me**

      2. Love says:

        I see a new Marvel comic movie coming soon to a theater near you:
        The Empathress.
        Indy and NarcAngel: you can arm wrestle for the role 😉

        1. Indy says:

          Ha ha Love,

          Marvel!!! The Horrors!!!! Oh, I got an idea…

          So, NarcAngel…you can be the Empathress for Marvel and I will be the Emparrior for DC! We both win….unless you are a die hard DC fan….then this means war! 😉

          1. NarcAngel says:

            Theres a difference? I denounced all comics as stupid when week after week Wile E Coyote ignored my pleas to order from someone other than Acme. But there was that time I dressed as Wonder Woman for Halloween and it felt almost right but too…….nice. How about something involving Beaver pelt? But you’ll have to ahem….. give me a little heads up on that one. It’ll take a few weeks Im afraid…….I’ll get back to you on the costume but I’m totally down for some ass-kicking! We’ll pick up biscuits and gravy on the way back. I dont want my pelt to look all bloated in case theres a photo op.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            I thank my own personal god for the Beano to be honest.

          3. NarcAngel says:

            Haha. But without Beano who needs weapons? So you thank yourself? Very nice.

          4. Snow White says:

            NarcAngel, Indy, and Love, now I want in. When you said biscuits and gravy and costumes that caught my attention.
            Sounds like fun!!!!!

          5. NarcAngel says:

            Oh SNOW you’d be perfect! Do come! We dont have much of a plan at present Im afraid-I think in general were just kicking ass and taking hostages. Im dragging my toys back for LOVE to play with until she tires of them and puts them on a shelf……

          6. Indy says:

            Yessss biscuits after photo ops!! Don’t want any windy Indy 😉

            Beaver pelts, damn girl! Now that is some dirty girl comic right there! 😂😂😂

            Yes, come join snow!! I’m looking for my underoos…

          7. NarcAngel says:

            Well ladies I AM Canadian thus the beaver pelt thong and fur-lined bra (its -21 here tonight). And LOVE……laser is losing its lustre- the “low fro” and “chia part” are making a comeback, (however I waxed so that Santa doesnt get lost in the bush and can still deliver). Just sayin.

      3. Love says:

        No no no ladies. This is Hollywood. That means No Beano and No Beaverbelt. Starve yourself and get lasered. Yes to the torpedo tatas.

      4. Love says:

        Oh NarcAngel. You know what’s going to happen when you give me your toys. I’m going to fall in love with them and they’ll tire of me and put me on the shelf. Then I will be a crying mess and you will have to hear all about it.

        1. NarcAngel says:


          No worries. There will be other biscuit runs…..

        2. Love, you sound as sensitive as me. I also become a crying mess at the slightest provocation. No wonder i had to be on many meds when my narc was emotionally abusing me – future faking, blame shifting, deflection etc. If it wasn’t for the fact that i love him, and his chiselled muscular somatic body along with his rugged handsome looks, i may have left him long before. Who am i kidding? I probably would have stayed. 😞

      5. Love says:

        Yes PTSD, our staying power is next to none. I stay until I’m discarded.
        Until recently I thought I was a bad ass chick immune to hoovers. But apparently I’m not as hardcore as I thought.
        NarcAngel, I’m taking off my torpedo bustier and handing it back to you. I don’t deserve to wear it yet. Lol no one take topless pics of me and post them on WordPress 😄

        1. Indy says:

          You don’t loose strength and badassery by responding to a Hoover. We all have done this. You just get back up on the wagon and take one day at a time ❤️

        2. NarcAngel says:


          What do you mean you thought you were immune to hoovers?

      6. Love says:

        LMAO! NarcAngel, if you were honored with the nickname Firecrotch then there would be no need for pelt belts, low fros, or Chi Chi Chia. 21 degrees you say? Firecrotch goes commando in the Arctic. What what!?!

        1. NarcAngel says:


          Thats -21. MINUS 21. That beared repeating. And its not even cold yet. You need some kind of protection so your mudflaps dont freeze up. Endless Love???!!! Get to a crisis centre stat! Id rather have a narc in my head than that. You need a hoog. Ill send Indy.

          1. Indy says:

            LOVE and NA,
            Indeed, Endless Love is equivalent to the “Bat signal” from the commissioner!! On my way, slipping on my Womanly Wolfie Wool Invisible cloak and hopping into the Indy-mobile!! Brining biscuits and gravy, stat!! And some Southern Comfort!!! Nothing like a sweet bourbon to wash those nasty Lionel Richie tunes out of your mind 🙂

            Huggggggggg (in a really bad English accent)

      7. Love says:

        Thank you Indy 💜
        NarcAngel, I thought I was over my last and wouldn’t be affected by his hoovers. I thought I was on to the next. But then the ex hoovered, and sure enough I was a ball of tears, chocolate, and Lionel Richie songs. I can’t stop singing Endless Love. Yes, it is that bad.

      8. Love says:

        YES Yes Yes NatcAngel! You speak to my heart! I need a great big HOOG!

        🎶Two hearts,
        Two hearts that beat as one
        Our lives have just begun…🎶

      9. Love says:

        Come soon dear Indy. Come soon. There is not much time left. I’m getting weaker… It’s pulling me in… I’m transitioning to Stuck on You.
        🎶So hard to see
        That a woman like you could wait around for a man like me🎶

        1. Indy says:

          Packing some narc repellant. Sprays self first…
          Steps into my Indy Mobile, pulls down the drink mixer and gets to mixing some poisons…I mean medicines (hehe)

      10. Love says:

        Lolol! And don’t forget the Bourbon. We can make some Kentucky Bourbon Balls.

    3. ANarcsNightmare says:

      Not necessarily, Brian. I am an SE and frustrating this Midranger has been a hell of ride. HG has helped me TREMENDOUSLY. He has given me the tools that I employed and game over. Common decency doesn’t take away from the fact that we are not to be toyed with even in a narc infested friendship…

    4. 1jaded1 says:

      Noobs? Please explain, Brian. I am not an empath btw. Your insight will help me understand further. Thank you very much. How is one a noob?

      HG. Please provide your thoughts too. I doubt one wakes up and decides to become a super empath…right?

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Correct. You are either one or you are not, you do not decide to become one.

  46. Adele says:

    This one was a huge eyeopener!
    Ive considered myself in the past as a codependant abd i do feel i have this quality as a result of fear of abandonment and my addiction to this person. It really terrifies me and causes me anxiety but the flipside is im very stubborn. I really resent the way ive been treated over the past 5 yrs. A deep seeded resentment. He has triggered me so many timesinto unleashing a part of me i dont like. Ive said and done some things that almost immediately feel badly about yet hed have this evil laugh. I can hear it now. I couldnt understand why on earth hed take pleasure from arousing this kind of reaction from me. Thru understanding narcissism over the last 2 yrs its starting to become clearer. One thing ive noticed is once i do take a shot back which is never physical but verbal he hunkers down and gets kind of nervous. This surprises me because hes good dishing out the passive aggression but i guess like a coward cant take it as well. I hate talking about someone i have deep feelings for but this is just it.
    He usually becomes cold and we dont talk for awhile but we connect again because we do enjoy each others company but he just cant help himself. Its almost as if getting along is too boring got to stir things up. Narcs do like drama tho.
    That was interesting the mention of the spectrum because possibly empaths are drawn to narcs to balance things out as far as lacking narcissism but that never occurs. For me i think i was attracted because of my need of validation from someone like my mother. Hes also older too. Our subconscious really knows or thinks it knows what it needs. I wouldve perferred a good therapist

    1. MLA - Clarece says:

      Completely relatable and some similar parallels with our situations. Especially with the side of you his actions brought out that otherwise in different circumstances or in a different dynamic with someone you would behave very differently.

  47. This is a piece of a rare art HG

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I do like that comment GG, thank you. Tell everybody you know.

    2. Lisa says:

      Couldnt agree more GG. Fabulous indeed!

  48. Love says:

    Fascinatinh! Thank you. Can you please provide some real life examples of how the SE turns narcissistic in the relationship and fights back?

    1. Love says:


    2. HG Tudor says:

      I have made a note to write an article about that Love.

      1. Love says:

        You are amazing! Thank you!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome.

      2. Sarabella says:

        Yes, I need this article desperately. Please write more on this. I need to know how the SE turns narcissistic, the effect on health and well being, how it’s used to manage trauma, how in a romantic SE/Narc relationship this ends.

        I need to know this cause I think you have just given me the fucking key to why I was ALWAYS fighting with my mother. She projected it on to me that I was manipulating everyone but I knew that was not ever the truth. I deeply knew it but something was always wrong at home. I was trying to resist all of her narc bullshit (interpreted as someone just selfish and self-centered but narcissism goes WELL beyond that) and survive the extreme challenges life had given me without a warm, loving, compassionate mother to help me in anyway. I was fighting for the right to my hurt, to my experience, to the pain that was really huge in my life for reasons and then to be told by her it was irrelevant and then for her to do whatever she wanted where her poor kids were concerned and cause another massive profound level of trauma and suffering.

        I was in a non-stop fight. And it wasn’t until I was well away from family that I found myself in social situations and I was like wow, I am NOTHING like that person I was growing up. How can this ever be?!!!! I am not constantly in fight mode and I am now a really nice, kind, gentle sensitive person so who the EFF what that little girl?!

      3. Sookie Stackhouse says:

        Which article HG? I would love to read it!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It has not been written yet.

  49. ME says:

    Obviously, jajajajaa

  50. chirose says:

    OMG HG.!!!! This is super brilliant.!! This explains so much of the fights/escape when I would leave my N. I used to worry I was becoming one. But now it makes complete sense. Just wow.!! I need to sit awhile and absorb this insight…Damn.

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